Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 25, 2020
Syria – Army Moves To Liberate M4 Highway – Turkish Russian Standoff Continues

The Syrian Arab Army continues its campaign to liberate Idleb governorate. The current main area of operation is in the southeast of the terrorist held area where the SAA attacks in a northern and western direction. The aim of the operation is to bring the M4 highway from Latakia to Aleppo under government control.

Idleb governorate Feb 17 2020

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During the last two days more than 20 towns and villages in the southeast have been liberated. The enemy lines in the area have broken down and the remaining resistance is not strong.

Idleb governorate Feb 25 2020

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A fighter and 'war correspondent' on the 'rebel' side explains why the Syrian army can make such fast progress:

[T]he Russians use their reconnaissance drones very well which makes you unable to move your forces on the frontlines and use your supply routes as you wish. Everything the drone sees moving is getting hit after maximum 2-3 minutes by Russian war planes. I hope and believe that now since the frontlines are more hilly and mountainous areas the Russian and Iranian-backed Assad militants will have more difficulties and face much stronger resistance by the fighting factions.

Planes and drones don't care about mountains.

More fighting is taking place west of Saraqib in the town Nayarb next to the M4 highway. Strong Turkish supported terrorist forces have counterattacked there and over the last week Nayarb has changed hands four times. It is currently considered no man's land.

Nayrab-Saraqib Feb 25 2020

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The Turkish plan is obviously to reconquer Saraqib and to thereby interrupt traffic on the M5 highway which the SAA has only recently liberated and reopened to civilian traffic. But every attack soon got stuck in Nayarb and lots of the new Turkish equipment that was used was destroyed.

Since its invasion of Idleb Turkey equipped its mercenaries and the Hayat Tahrir al Sham (HTS) terrorists with U.S. made M-113 infantry carrier vehicles and with light armored infantry tanks. They also received more anti-tank missiles. The Turkish army is supporting them with artillery. The Turkish army also fired man portable air defense weapons (MANPADs) against Syrian helicopter and Russian warplanes. A Turkish drone which earlier today had entered Syrian airspace was shot down.

Several Turkish convoys which attempted to move further south have been attacked by the Russian airforce. Russia claimed that at least 13 Turkish troops died or were wounded yesterday though Turkey has not issued any news on that.

Today the military airport near Taftanaz north of Saraqib was bombed by Syrian and Russian planes. The airport is not in use but the Turkish army has used it as an artillery and logistic position.

The Russians seem to have returned the airplanes to the contingent in Syria which were previously withdrawn. They are currently back at flying more than 200 missions per day.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is still trying to argue with Russia about the Syrian army campaign. He will not reach any new agreement unless he commits to the points Russia proposed:

1- 16-km border strip in Idlib under Turkey control
2- Russia controls crossing between Idlib strip and Afrin
3- M4 and M5 opened under joint Russian-Turkish supervision
4- Retreat of observation points to border strip

An attempt to arrange a March 5 meeting with France, Germany, Turkey and Russia has not yet been accepted by the Russian side. It would likely be useless as Russia has nothing to gain from changing its position.

Today Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov again defended the Russian standpoint in a speech to the United Nations Human Rights Council:

According to him, the international community and the Human Rights Council need to create a barrier against extremists because some forces tend to justify the atrocities of radical and terrorist groups. "Otherwise it is hard to explain their statements about a possible truce with bandits, which are made during discussions of the situation in Idlib," Lavrov pointed out. "It has nothing to do with concerns about human rights, it is a surrender to terrorists, which would encourage them to continue blatantly violating universal conventions and numerous United Nations Security Council resolutions," the Russian top diplomat added.

The U.S. has made clear that it will not support Erdogan's Syria adventure except by words. This was evident last week when the spokesperson of the U.S. anti-ISIS campaign said that Idleb governorate is a "magnet" for terrorist groups who are a "nuisance, a menace and a threat" to the hundreds of thousands of civilians in Syria.

Erdogan's threat to attack with his whole army should Syria not withdraw to the previous lines by March 1 is obviously empty. The Russian airforce would pulverize the Turkish forces before they could reach the front lines.

Erdogan is in a challenging position. If he orders his army to attack in full force he will have to justify the likely very high losses in an unwinnable war. If he retreats from his harsh rhetoric and accepts the Russian points those nationalists who still support him will have further doubts about his leadership.

Comments

Chant down Babylon..
https://youtu.be/cr1BMeJ1Xkk
Selah.

Posted by: Lozion | Feb 28 2020 2:42 utc | 201

Egor68500 @195:

The translation is not correct…. Here Erdogan was not saying that the territory is Turkey’s …

Well, even what you claim is a faulty translation doesn’t explicitly lay claim to the territory.
“We are not the guests in this realm, we are the hosts”, implies that Erdogan believes he has responsibility for the territory. And a responsibility of a host to a guest is considered almost a sacred duty in Middle Eastern cultures, isn’t it?
<> <> <> <> <>
It’s difficult to see Erdogan backing down and it’s difficult to see NATO snubbing him if/when he makes the case that Idlib is defacto Turkish territory. If they do, they risk losing Turkey as an ally completely (though I kinda doubt Erdogan is doing anything that that USA/NATO don’t really him to).
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 2:43 utc | 202

Jackrabbit
I think you are right about Erdogan claiming Idlib. He is still sane enough to try and voice his beliefs using somewhat politically acceptable terminology. It matches his domestic speech where he talked about Turkey not being limited by the current borders.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 2:50 utc | 203

Thomson Reuters · spin in the cbc news section for anyone interested..
Turkish official says 33 soldiers killed in airstrike by Syrian government forces
Social Sharing

The Associated Press spin, also in the cbc news..
Turkey says it’s helped rebel forces take back key Syrian town
in canada we only get wire service info on what is happening.. and they spin the info a particular way…
the wire services won’t say the rebel forces are the same headchopper cultists that are on usa’s terrorist list, as that would be giving too much info..they can’t do that..

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 3:11 utc | 204

Turkish media sources are claiming that more than 73 Turkish troops were killed in the recent air strikes, but they’ve been barred from reporting it officially.

Posted by: Kadath | Feb 28 2020 3:32 utc | 205

This is what Turk media are putting out. I take it this is considered official information from the government. Machine translation not very good but its readable.
“In this regime neutralized the element of Idlib since 10 February 1709, 55 tanks, 3 helicopters, armored vehicles, 19, 29 howitzers was destroyed”
https://www.trthaber.com/haber/gundem/1709-rejim-unsuru-etkisiz-hale-getirildi-463661.html

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 3:40 utc | 206

@ peter… that info is the same as the daily sabah article i looked at earlier which has an english version and is one of the two main news outlets inside turkey…
https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/turkey-hits-russian-assad-regime-bastion-latakia-in-western-syria/news
it was erdogans birthday yesterday and it is the anniversary of the feb 28th failed coup in turkey tomorrow..
https://www.dailysabah.com/

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 3:51 utc | 207

sorry.. that was the 1997 coup! the one a few years ago was in july 2016.. see the link to daily sabah for the article i refer to..

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 3:57 utc | 208

@Peter AU1 | 200 @Kadath | 205
9 has now been revised upward to 33 accordi g to current NTV reports. Not sure where 73 comes from.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 4:11 utc | 209

@Jackrabbit | 202
My mistake. Didn’t notice the word “realm” – a very biased choice of translation. A far better chouce would have been region. In literal translation he says “in this geography” so again, there is no implication of the land being Turkey’s – on this occaision.
(Never thought I’d be defensing Erdogan!))))))
Peter AU1 | 206
You forgot the 1709 “regime” soldiers killed in the last 17 days. ))))
A lot of reporters (Turkish) talking about Turkey’s unwillingness to prevent refugees from fleeing to Europe – clearly an attemot to pabic Merkel and Macron before they head over to Turkey.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 4:21 utc | 210

on Southfront there are some photos floating around purporting to show coffins being delivered to a Turkish hospital in the dead of night, can’t confirm when this occurred but there were more than 2 dozen. Also a blanket social media ban seems like an overreaction if there were only a couple dozen deaths, this looks like a large scale disaster for the Turkish troops that entered Syria.

Posted by: Kadath | Feb 28 2020 4:28 utc | 211

And here we go. Reports of AFGHAN (!!) refugees at Edirne being filmed trying to escape to Bulgaria.
This is clearly a staged media show. But telling of Turkey’s thinking and the fake news to expect.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 4:31 utc | 212

@210 egor68500… you would benefit from reading the headlines in the 2 turkish news outlets that are in english..
here is one of the headlines today in daily sabah for you –
Turkey will no longer stop Syrian migrant flow to Europe, official says

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 4:37 utc | 213

i guess that is the same thing..

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 4:38 utc | 214

Erdogan’s speech on borders. Includes making changes to school books.
https://twitter.com/saddatawa/status/1232081519507918848
Turkey opening its border gates to Europe.
https://twitter.com/ynms79797979/status/1233188795283050497

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 5:20 utc | 215

This is a good report
From https://twitter.com/ynms79797979
Y.N.M.S
@ynms79797979
·
6h
The senior commander of terrorist groups and one of those close to Abu Muhammad al-Julani (leader of the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham terrorist group) Abu Obeid was destroyed in the south by the governor of Idlib, Syria.
Not a bad site for up to date material.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 28 2020 7:09 utc | 216

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1233281285164064768
@ragipsoylu
NATO to hold an emergency meeting today following Turkey’s request to do so under article 4 of the NATO chart
Looking up article 4, NATO has this
“In Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, members can bring any issue of concern, especially related to the security of a member country, to the table for discussion within the North Atlantic Council.
Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked several times, for instance by Turkey.”
https://www.nato.int/cps/us/natohq/topics_49187.htm
Of interest at the NATO site is this
https://www.nato.int/cps/us/natohq/news_19930.htm
1 deployment of NATO Airborne Early Warning Aircraft (AWACS) aircraft;
2 NATO support for the deployment of theatre missile defences for Turkey;
3 NATO support for possible deployment of Allied chemical and biological defences.
The plans were reviewed and approved by the Committee at its session on 19 February. They will now be implemented as a matter of urgency.
Searching for consensus
The decision is the result of intense consultations, which began on 10 February, when Turkey invoked Article 4 of the NATO’s founding treaty. This article states that Allies will consult together “whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any NATO country is threatened.””
……
This is why Erdogan is not backing off.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 7:14 utc | 217

@Peter AU1 | 215
Thanks. But I would not.
Those headlines were generated in Turkish news which I was watching and were streamed across the bottom of the screen while the journalist in Edirne said very clearly that the border guards had not allowed the Afghans through and so they, the Afghans, were looking for other ways to cross. And there were in total about 25 refugees on the screen. As I said in the previous post the refugee game has begun.
Now. I am not suggesting that there will be no redugee wave,but the government has just run a six-month police operation in Ankara, Izmir, and Istanbul raiding houses and workplaces to arrest and im many cases deport or at best send South all refugees of non- permanent address. Those that could fled to the South of Turkey before they were arrested. Meaning that those Syrians remaining in the big cities have roots now and are unlikely to up and leave. Those that are likley to leave have gone south.
At the same timw there is no confirmation that the strict security perimeters / checkpoints around Istanbul would be lifted for refugees coming from the South to Edirne.
Another point worth mentioning is that the non-settled redugees used phone number that were not linked to a Turkish ID. As of last year all those numbers were disconnected so many of then use old style non-internet phones. They therefore have no access to Facebook, Telegram, Maps or any of the comms apps that they traditionally use and therefore will have difficulty communicating details of how to get where and when etc.
I suggest we stay calm at the moment. Refugees will have such a long journey that their progress across Turkey will be visible to anyone who cares.
There are simply not the numbers of non-settled refugees that there used to be. In 2015 all square in Istanbul were full of sleeping bored refugees, they lined the streets looking for work or just wandering. There is nothing of that nature now. A large number have businesses, kids at schools and have made a life for themselves. No matter how they wohld love to head to Europe the decision is now a different one for so many.
Even now mews is reporting that refugees are marching and the number of refugees has increased but still not over a couple of hundred. And they are trying to cross by sea and by land. Alao a large majority are visibly not Syrian. Anyway I hope to god Turkey does not allow them to make these stupid sea trips. Lodos winds are expected and the journey will be very dangerous. But then they are expendable as always to the Turkish governmwnt.
The situation is developing and things could change of course. But even as we speak refugees are not being allowed through the border gates according to live reporting now.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 7:22 utc | 218

@Peter AU1 | 215
Apologies. That rather long reply was intendes for @james | 213.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 7:40 utc | 219

Russia is saying Syrian artillery wiped out the Turk troops.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-russia/russia-sends-warships-to-syria-blames-ankara-for-killing-of-turkish-troops-idUSKCN20M0LO
Egor68500
I had the impression Turkey has organised a small number of refugees and sent them on their way.
Video of two separate groups. One group about a hundred or so young men, possibly another smaller mixed group, or the tail of the first group.
In one video I watched, as the tail end of a group went out the gates, a car lighting the area with its headlights turned the lights off. Thinking of it now, that was a bit odd as a border crossing would be lit with floodlights.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 7:59 utc | 220

@Egor68500 | 195
Thanks for the education about Rabia and Bozkurt: much appreciated.
From my scant knowledge of Turkish history, the army had always been staunchly Kemalist.
Erdoğan is, of course, staunchly Islamist.
Since the alleged 2016 coup attempt, Erdoğan has become increasingly paranoid and authoritarian, not unlike Stalin, and increasingly demanding territory from all his neighbours, not unlike Hitler.
Since he’s imprisoned or purged so many journalists, teachers, soldiers, even doctors – to say nothing of politicians – parts of the army, especially those brought up in the Kemalist secular doctrine, must be getting pretty restive.
Do you think Erdoğan has selected these Kemalist elements to send under-equipped into Syria in order to get rid of them?
That’s why I think the Turkish army in Idlib could be turned by the Syrians (or Russians) into their allies and rebel against Erdoğan’s reckless Islamism.

Posted by: John Marks | Feb 28 2020 8:07 utc | 221

@John Marks | 221
You are absolutely right about previous coups etc and CIA influence over the military has always been a threat. But this is precisely the reason why the ‘staged coup’ of 2016 was so effective for Erdogan; he brought the military directly under his control. He purged the military ruthlessly and most of those purged were NATO/ US alligned. But no cobtrol is ever 100% of course.An example of how this affected the armed forces is this; Turkey had to ask Pakistan to hire F16 trainer pilots!!
I have not read anything anywhere – except for one article linked here that I referred to – about selected groups being sent to Idlib and certainly the soldiers’ martyrdom is being hailed as no less heroic and patriotic. I am not inclined to believe that such selection has happened. If anyone has links/ info I would be very interested to read it.
As I’ve mentioned before the current threat as far as I have observed seems to come from within AKP. There is a growing contingent which wants to see a rebalance of Turkish-US relations primarily economic. This means that Albayrak, Erdogan’s son-in-law. is in the crosshairs. With the Lira flying high as a result of last night’s actions and the Koronavirus promising to kill tourism this contingent will only gain traction it seems. It might be that this dissent goes beyond economics, but that would be guessing on my part.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 8:46 utc | 222

John Marks # 221
The Turkish troops seem well equipped to me except for air cover and there is no chance of that being rectified anytime soon I would think.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 28 2020 8:54 utc | 223

I would like to understand what is really going on in Syria. I’ve been coming here recently, and my goal is to have another source of information that the traditional media is throwing at me on a daily basis.
But, I am a little lost with all the protagonists. Someone could sum up for me: who is who? Who’s doing what? And why? Thank you!

Posted by: mcht | Feb 28 2020 9:09 utc | 224

Map showing the location of the strike that killed the 33 Turks.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ER2YlUMXYAAKXm5?format=jpg&name=small
This map show locations of Turk bases (red dots).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ER0VBPBVUAE298y?format=jpg&name=small
Location of the strike looks very close to the location of a Turk base near the southern front.
@ragipsoylu
23m
Turkish Defense Minister Akar says after the first hit to Turkish troops, they sent a warning but the attack continues. And even ambulances were hit.
“We didn’t have any other armed groups in the premises” (Responding to the Russian claim that Syrian militants were there)
…..
Turk minister uses the term premises so likely it was a base that was hit, though the hit on the troop convoy would have caused high casualties.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 9:30 utc | 225

@Peter AU1 | 220
I think you are absolutely right.
I am near Sochi, the other side of the Black Sea but know Turkey very well, and have been watching Turkish news on and off since early this morning and there seems to be a lot of noise … I’m not sure I understand what I’m watching.
I’ve seen footage of two busses from Zeytinburno, an area of Istanbul with a high immigrant population, and 2 from Sisli, also in Istanbul, and that’s it. How many people do 4 busses hold? It’s crazy! The government is laying on busses and still it is having trouble filling them! There’s repeated footage of a group of Africans and Afghans on the coast at Canakalle but having been there since the early hours they have not head out to sea yet.
I got in touch with one Afghan friend in Esenler, in Istanbul, a hub for immigrant workers, and he says everyone is at work. A Syrian friend in Antep has said he’s heard nothing. I’m waiting to hear from another old Syrian friend also in Antep – he’d give anything to head to Europe because his situation is so difficult – I kinda hope my cynicism is misplaced and he joins a wave that make it to Europe!! )))
As for Edirne,still no one has been allowed through the border gates without ptoper documentation, and the land-borders are patrolled, so the only way to cross into Bulgaria is to properly time the patrols and leg it – this from an Algerian who has made it across twice but both times got caught near Athens and sent back to Istanbul – so the footage I’ve seen of an elderly woman with a baby in her arms trying to cross a stream in a forest is just conical. Some reporters are atationed at Hatay border and there is no movement no refugees flooding into Turkey! )))
As for the tv “specials” its just ao much talk. Two recurring themes are a ceasefire and safe zone compriaing an “international community enforced no fly zone”. What is interesting is that the language against us, Russians, has ramped up significantly. And the images of explosions and “regime” body counts are clearly intended to give the impression of war.
Interesting to see how things develop. Like I say it’s really not clear what is happening yet …

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 9:47 utc | 226

Egor68500
Four bus loads would cover the numbers I have seen in various videos.
As to Erdogan’s intentions, I now think US NATO are trying to pull the same trick US did on Georgia.
The NATO agreement from the earlier article 4 meeting to send patriots and some other gear trying to give Erdogan enough confidence of backing to start an offensive.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 10:29 utc | 227

Turkey will take a huge hit if it escalates against Russia. It will be Ukraine Nr. 2 if they shoot themselves in the foot doing this and cancel Russian projects for Turkey. A 20-billion USD NPP, built for free on Russian credit, supplying in 5-10 years Southern Turkey with 5GW of power, cheap gas through Turkish and Blue stream, 4-5 million well-paying tourists per year, and the “famous” Turkish tomatoes, not mentioning S400.
The Russians moved 2 Kalibr-equpped of their newest frigates through the Straits today and not a blip from Erdy. After all, a week ago Russia increased the tomato import quota with 50 thousans tons per month 🙂
You see, the (military) stick is very mighty, but the carrot is even mightier…
___

Posted by: BG | Feb 28 2020 10:39 utc | 228

@Peter AU1 | 227
I hope you’re wrong.
But there is definitely a game going on.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 10:40 utc | 229

Where is Behun, see last para below?
This doesn’t seem to tie up with the “premises” that Peter AU1 mentions above but it could be down to semantics. Those “premises” suddenly seem to be pretty close to the front line according to the map linked, so it would be a SAA priority target then in artillery range due to the very rapid advance of the SAA as per the first Russian comment below and a big Turkish Army fail for not moving them faster.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
4h
The Russian MoD released a statement stating that the Turkish servicemen who came under fire were located in the formations of terrorist groups, and they were fired at by Syrian troops. It said Russian Air Force aircraft were not involved in the strike.
tass.ru
3h
The statement said that Russia has constantly asked Turkey for the coordinates of its forces in Idlib, and that Russia immediately coordinated a ceasefire after learning about the Turkish casualties and helped ensure their safe evacuation.
tvzvezda.ru
·
3h
The Russian MoD statement also said, “according to the coordinates transferred by the Turkish side to the Russian Center for Reconciliation there weren’t any Turkish military units in the area of Behun and should not have been any”

Posted by: JohninMK | Feb 28 2020 10:43 utc | 230

Perhaps Erdoğan is having his own soldiers killed to justify his invasion and hoping (in vain) to draw in his NATO allies.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 28 2020 10:56 utc | 231

JohninMK
Translating arabic to english the spelling is always different. Place names on wikipedia maps are often different spelling to google and often both are spelt different to the spelling in a news report.
In the wikipedia map, there is a Balyun and another town to the north east Balshun in the general area where to strike is shown on the map I linked.
https://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.714044&lon=36.518555&z=13&m=w
Google have them spelt as Baluon and Balshoon.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@35.705015,36.4950936,6193m/data=!3m1!1e3
But the strike could have been in a different location to the one shown on the map. Nearly impossible to search for a location by its place name as there are so many different spellings in translation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 11:06 utc | 232

@JohninMK | 230 @Blue Dotterel | 231
Could it be that Erdogan is looking for a way out of his end of month deadline?
Turkish and Russian delegations will meet today at 16 – the result of Putin- Erdogan telephone call according to our press. Maybe Russia will give Erdogan the means to save face when the deadline runs out tomorrow night.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 11:06 utc | 233

I just watched Stoltenburg’s press statement live stream after the article 4 meeting. NATO gives Turkey condolences. Erdo is finished. Caught in a trap of his own making.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 11:17 utc | 234

NYT learns from American authorities what happens on parallel Earth:
Over the last few months, and faced with the mass of refugees at its border, Turkey has pushed thousands of troops and set up observation posts in Idlib as part of an agreement with Russia and Iran to reduce violence in Syria. A senior Trump administration official said Russia is most likely the only power that could persuade Mr. al-Assad to back off, both in Idlib and in the northwestern city of Aleppo, another strategic prize in the Syrian war.
So far, that has not happened, and James F. Jeffrey, the State Department’s special envoy on Syria and the Islamic State, said it was unclear if Russia was powerless to curb Mr. al-Assad or simply chose not to.
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Continue reading the main story
Regardless, Mr. Jeffrey told reporters on Feb. 5, “Russia is not being helpful.”

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 28 2020 11:33 utc | 235

JohninMK
Iran onto this.
“#Syria #Idlib #Kafr_Nabl #Saraqib #بليون
The name of the place where the Turkish/#NuNusra convoy was bombed is generally either not reported or misreported. It seems to be the village of #Belyūn (بليون) west of #al_Bara and a good 35 miles from #Saraqib.”
Balyun or Baluon is the place I thought very close to that shown on the earlier map I linked.
Baluon on google maps
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@35.6993191,36.494293,2190m/data=!3m1!1e3

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 11:55 utc | 236

Possibly, where Syria was advancing from the south.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 28 2020 12:01 utc | 237

Magnier has a run of comments at his twitter thread.
https://twitter.com/ejmalrai
This one is interesting
“#Kurds are talking to #Damascus in the capital and at Hmeymeen with the #Russian mediation. Kurds are aware the #US cannot continue stealing the Syrian oil forever and is pushed out of #Iraq. Kurds are trying to get more concessions. Even if the results are slim, it is happening.”
Surely it will sink into the Kurds thick heads that Russia and Syria just faced down Turkey whereas US just dumped them and grabbed the oil.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 12:23 utc | 238

Yes from what I understand it happened in the mountains near Al Bara where the SAA offensive on the strategic town of Kansafra was. Since officially there should be no turkish soldiers there, it proves once again that the turkish army is fighting on the front together with al qaeda.
That may also be the reason why the account of turkish casualties is all over the place. Some of the dead are turkish special forces, some are al qaeda terrorists.
Allegedly this video shows the exact moment of the attack: https://youtu.be/qa33KSOkces

Posted by: redrooster | Feb 28 2020 12:24 utc | 239

Posted by: mcht | Feb 28 2020 9:09 utc | 224
“What is going on?”
It reminds me of the period right after Iran hit the US base in W. Iraq with ballistic missiles in January. There is a fine fog of bullshit in the air everywhere, covering everything.
I see this morning Moscow is saying Putin will meet Erdogan soon. And the war seems to be going on as before underneath the rhetoric, no letup on the ground.
I saw a report from Syrian (purported) yesterday that said they hit the Turks with a short range missile after warning them, and they added they have a bunch more of them and will hit Turkey proper if they feel the need.
Erdogan has flopped around making lots of threats, Russia is moving ships closer.
I’m guessing the meeting will be about how to cover Erdogan’s butt for the loss of Idlib.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 28 2020 12:31 utc | 240

One more thing, I do not believe the Syrian military would have hit the Turks as reported without consulting with Russia. There have been other reports that Russia has given Assad permission to hit back. And Lavrov has been quite explicit that there will be no deal with the “terrorists”.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 28 2020 12:39 utc | 241

Bemildred
I tend to think Lavrov saying SAA artillery had hit the Turk’s was no more than giving Erdogan space to step down and continue dealing with Russia. I believe the strike was a planned escalation that has achieved its purpose. I think the survivors would have had an idea of what they were hit with which is where the reports of an airstrike originate.
I don’t like Erdogan’s chances of surviving domestically.
redrooster I’m fairly sure the casualties came fom the troop convoy that was hit. Perhaps they were transporting jihadis as well but I lean more to being just Turk troops in the convoy heading to the southern front.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 12:56 utc | 242

Peter AU1 242
That sounds reasonable. Russia has given Erdoğan nine lives, and he has about used them up.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 28 2020 13:04 utc | 243

Egor68500 @222: ‘staged coup’ of 2016
Glad to see another that sees it that way.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 13:07 utc | 244

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 12:56 utc | 242
Russia doing the hit: could be, I’ve seen pics of the convoy that got hit too, I just saw some stuff on twatter (Canthama) where Syrian military was claiming to have hit them with a missile, and I can see Russia saying “go for it” too, which has the same effect as you mention.
Erdogan definitely has got himself into a pickle. All seems very predictable though, I’ve been wondering what he thought he was up to for some time. And this sort of thinking leads one to think there is some narrative management going on, kabuki.
At the moment, I and still thinking there were two different hits on the Turks, a “command post” and the convoy, but it’s all gossip really, have to see what else comes out.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 28 2020 13:17 utc | 245

Erdogan has backed himself into a corner.
He set a deadline. Reiterated it several times. And now has a black eye.
Stepping back makes him look weak. Erdo’s ego and mindset may not allow him to do that.
That means escalation.
What can Russia offer to placate him that they haven’t already? My cynical answer: Syria’s expulsion of Iranian forces. Funny how the powerful always line up behind USA-Israeli objectives.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 13:20 utc | 246

Quick but, Important!
>>> 5 minutes ago…
Quoted by the Turkish media
The leader of the Turkish commandos, Major Ahmed Arman, was killed in the vicinity of Saraqib.
https://twitter.com/ynms79797979/status/1233380704144252928
>>>
Where did the türkies get hit, EXACTLY and, Who-Knew ‘they’ were there(???).
*Canthama* shows exactly where the ‘hit’ was made!
It’s called *Baylun* on the map here:
https://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.719200&lon=36.541901&z=11&m=w&show=/26791489/al-Arba-een-mountains-(881-m)
Comment #310512 made 2½ hrs ago.
https://www.syrianperspective.com/2020/02/aleppo-cleared-of-lice.html#comments
>>>
Who Knew?
Answer: the RF Military!
Yep.
They are in control for the time being.
The Doggy is soon…out.
X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Feb 28 2020 13:29 utc | 247

Yes as I reported it was in the mountains near Al Barah. The attack on the convoy was a separate incident that only killed 4 or so Turks.
Btw the terrorists (possibly with turkish support) are now counter-attacking in the mountains.

Posted by: redrooster | Feb 28 2020 13:34 utc | 248

@Peter AU1 | 234
It was just more of the same wasn’t it?
NATO promised to continue help protect Turkish airspace which could mean another patriot battery – i believe there is one Spanish rental at the moment. But this protects Turkey and does nothing to encroach on Russian controlled airspace which is what Turkey wantes.
But Erdogan will be speaking to Merkel, Macron, Johnson and Trump today … Nothing like an attention seeker to piss people off!!
On the refugee front nothing has happened – photos claiming that Afghans have made it to Midili Island are taken from Turkish shores with the Midili Island (Lesbos) in the background!! And some photos od afghans in the no-mans land between Turkish and Greek border gates. Comical.
And no movement of refugees from the south at least as far as friends have told me.
Your comments about Kurdish – Damascus talks are great news. Were they to agree, Syria/ Russia would have no more use of Turkey and it could be forced to retreat from all Syrian territory maybe. )))
@Jackrabbit | 244
Sadly it (the coup) is now part of school syllabus – how to brain wash a generation!!
As for what Russia can offer, why not the deal that b talks about. I have not heard any mention of it on Turkish news at all. They could pull it out of the hat and claim it to be Erdogan’s victory. Who knows?

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 13:45 utc | 249

Egor68500 @249
Yeah, they could revive that but with every death of a Turkish soldier I’d guess that Erdogan’s ‘price’ goes up.
Erdogan has always shared anti-Assad posture of USA, Israel, Saudis, etc. And there’s another dimension: Erdogan wants to control Libyan oil. He’s either been promised that or received hints that he could get it if he satisfies TPTB.
The only thing TPTB want more than more than a Syrian quagmire for Russia is for Iranian forces to leave Syria. While that’s probably a re-herring (they use Iran’s presence to justify anti-Syrian actions), Erdogan is foolish enough to believe that he will gain by helping with this ‘problem’.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 14:05 utc | 250

Peter AU 1 @166–
No, nothing as yet. Geroman’s back after being in Twitter’s jail for a week.
Is it true? If so, a strange game by Twitter. I also follow Y.N.M.S. who posts a lot and makes a lot of English mistakes.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 28 2020 14:16 utc | 251

The situation is unclear, no progress on the ground except SAA made a weird move, namely they moved into a northern sector of al-Ghab plane, even though it is still dominated by ca. 500 m high escarpment of Zawiya plateau. The southerrn half of the escarpment is under SAA, and SAA took over the respective south-east quarter of al-Ghab. The action consists of artillery fire etc on Idlib plane, and in other places too. RF brought cruisers with missiles, hm, perhaps they will bring more ammo too, what is going on can use a shipload in few days.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 28 2020 14:27 utc | 252

Jackrabbit
I have been trying to work out the timing of the Putin Erdogan phone call and the NATO article 4 meeting. Until this point, Putin has ignored Erdogan, both phone and or meeting.
That Putin agreed to talk to Erdogan and a face to face meeting now being organized, makes me think the phone call was after they knew the results of the NATO meeting.
My thought is that without the threat of NATO, Erdogan has no bargaining power and that is why Putin will now talk to him.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 14:35 utc | 253

On Turkey’s other active front, Libyans are no longer putting up with it anymore. After a Turkish drone strike hit a civilian car, killing a family inside it, the LNA initially retributed by striking an encampment of TSK soldiers and TFSA mercenaries. Next, Haftar’s forces struck Matiga airport which the Turks have been using as their main base in Tripoli. Many bodybags have been loaded onto Turkish planes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/LNA2019M
Haftar complains about the uselessness of the Berlin agreements in light of the ongoing Turkish actions and is about to start making moves again.

Posted by: Lurk | Feb 28 2020 14:45 utc | 254

Turkey takes revenge and uses armed drone. I bet they fire “hellfire” missiles.
https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/farcuz/a_new_footage_by_the_turkish_military_local_tv/“>https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/farcuz/a_new_footage_by_the_turkish_military_local_tv/>https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/farcuz/a_new_footage_by_the_turkish_military_local_tv/
Lots of direct hits

Posted by: murgen23 | Feb 28 2020 14:52 utc | 255

@ murgen23 | Feb 28 2020 14:52 utc | 255
Turkey was allowed to employ drones in Syrian airspace only for the purpose of monitoring of the Astana zones. The Turkish decision to use drones for offensive actions will likely lead to the banishment of all Turkish drones by Russia. More Erdogan painting himself into an ever tighter corner.

Posted by: Lurk | Feb 28 2020 15:00 utc | 256

Those bags under Erdogan’s eyes have been getting darker. He doesn’t look well.

Posted by: Carciofi | Feb 28 2020 15:16 utc | 257

Peter AU1 @253
I always take public moves with a grain of salt.
USA/NATO don’t want to appear to be pushing for war or colluding to make war.
USA has said they will back their “NATO ally” but have not announced any specific move or policy change to do so. They’ve also taken Turkey’s side by highlighting civilian suffering and calling for an end of the Syrian effort to retake Idlib.
There’s a political dance going on. The loser gets labeled an evil “aggressor”.
We’ll know more in hindsight: Next few days will see Erdogan back down or enter Idlib in force.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 15:37 utc | 258

Erdogan’s latest move with the refugees seems to be massively backfiring. Many comments to the tune of “untrustworthy Erdogan”, “he got billions and now he betrayed us”, “Erdogan declares war on Europe”, and even many calling for Turkey to be expelled from NATO.
Even some of the most staunchly right-wing NATO-allied politicians are uttering depreciative language about Turkey’s “adventurism” in Syria.
Others are suggesting that article 1 of the NATO treaty should be invoked on Turkey.

Posted by: Lurk | Feb 28 2020 16:35 utc | 259

Turkey and Russia talking past each other. Each appears to be insisting that their view of Astana prevail.
Lavrov:

“Today, a phone call between presidents Putin and Erdogan has been held at the initiative of the Turkish leader. The talks were detailed. They discussed the need to do everything possible to implement the original agreements on the de-escalation zone [in Idlib]”

It seems that Erdogan thinks he’s responsible for Idlib’s security and rejects that Turkey has failed while the Russians say that their action is justified under the agreements because Erdogan HAS failed. Because each side sees Astana differently, they each insist that they are acting in accord with the agreements.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 17:03 utc | 260

@ 218 Egor68500.. okay.. thanks!

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 17:08 utc | 261

Just on Russian central news – there will be a meeting between Putin and Erdogan
in Moscow on the 5th or 6th of March. The whole report on the Syria situation (around 10 minutes) had the battle footage released by the Turks last night so it was very transparent who was the aggressor. The reporter was clear – the Turks advanced together with HTS/AQ, they were side by side with the terrorists. IMHO we may expect further strikes on Turks in Idlib until they come to their senses.

Posted by: BG | Feb 28 2020 17:18 utc | 262

Turkey are losing soldiers in Idlib, also many in Lybia, and I think the kurd front will be very active soon, so the sultan will have to fight in three fronts at the same time, we will see how many body bags accept the turkish society

Posted by: DFC | Feb 28 2020 17:32 utc | 263

Has anyone seen any reliably sourced articles supporting Turkey’s claims of armed drones flying over Idlib and bombing “regime” positions/ arms depots etc.?
I’ve found nothing in local Russian nor English language press that isn’t sourced from Turkish press.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 17:43 utc | 264

Does anybody know more?
Article
– is this true?
“Türk Savaş uçakları Suriye’de
Rejimin, İdlip’te Türk askerlerine saldırı sonrasında, Türkiye, Lazkiye
dahil Suriye rejiminin tüm noktalarını vurmaya başladı”
As a revenge Turkish airforce hitted Syria except Lattakia. A special website for Turkish state employees.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 28 2020 17:45 utc | 265

The Turks have started using their airspace and land for attacks against the SAA with F16s and 120-km long range rocket artillery.
I think that they have lost their mind. What if the SAA starts returning fire on Turkish soil? Will NATO help? Will Trump put American troops in danger in an election year by activating Article 5 and 6? The Turks are on the brink of the abyss. Imho Russia will not allow all it has achieved in the last 5 years to evapprate by backing down. Will NATO survive if it does not help Turkey in the case of SAA retaliation?
The most noteworthy thing is that the SAA (VKS) does not need to target Turkish soil – they have a 5-10 thousand Turkish force inside Idlib with only one supply line and also over 10 Turkish observation posts/potential hostages behind SAA lines.
___

Posted by: BG | Feb 28 2020 17:46 utc | 266

SAA forces have secured around 95% of the very fertile Al Ghaab plain and continues advancing.
4 kms left to cutting M4 from the South, 15 kms to Jisr-al-Shugur.

Posted by: BG | Feb 28 2020 17:55 utc | 267

“The Turks have started using their airspace and land for attacks against the SAA with F16s”
Source? Not buying this..

Posted by: Lozion | Feb 28 2020 17:59 utc | 268

Lurk 259
Actually, if Erdogan really ships and helps sending hundreds of thousands of migrants towards Greece, I think Greece should invoke article 5 against Turkey. At the very least, the question should be asked: does Nato want to keep Turkey in, or the bulk of EU?
As for Idlib operations, as BG said, Russia and SAA should comsider cutting the road between the province and Turkey, and let rebels and Turkish troops be stranded there without supplies.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Feb 28 2020 18:02 utc | 269

ANNA-News posts photos of southern Idlib graffiti: hip revolution on the outside, ISIS and Al‑Qaeda on the inside.

Posted by: S | Feb 28 2020 18:11 utc | 270

Since the start of the operation in December, the frontline has been shortened with around 95-100 kms, which is huge as it frees a lot of combat troops.
Imho, the whole recent escalation affair by the Turks shows Russia’s wisdom in not putting regular troops in Donbass. There were “holiday makers”, “taxi drivers” and “miners”, Northern wind etc., there were losses, but there was never the possibility of direct Russian involvement inside the Ukraine (unless the Ukies declared war, which please note, they never did). Turkey has done the opposite, putting regular troops in and mingling with the terrorist, thus making the possibilities for public losses and a very humiliating retreat very real. I think the Russians will escalate until the possible meeting of Putin with Erdogan in Moscow (the meeting place hints at who is more desperate for this meeting) next week and that they may cancel it if Erdogan misbehaves. After all, the meeting in Istanbul of Erdogan, Merkel, Macron and Putin was promoted by Erfogan himself and the Russians humiliated Erdo by never confirming their attendance and now the meeting is dead.
The Turks must tread very carefully from now on…

Posted by: BG | Feb 28 2020 18:13 utc | 271

Hausmeister | Feb 28 2020 17:45 utc | 265
Latakia is included (dahil) not excluded according to the claims.
But this is again Turkish sourced.
Is there any news out there corroborating these attcks that is not Turkish sourced?
@Lozion | 268
Me neither. I’m not even comvinced of the armed drone stories, so F-16s … ))))

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 18:38 utc | 272

Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 18:38 utc | 272
Here
it is. I am not able to validate it.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 28 2020 18:51 utc | 273

I’ve just been told by a Syrian friend in Turkey, in Antep, that Turks are gatherimg in large groups threatening Syrians and shouting. Syrians are being told that if they don’t fight alongside Turkish army they should get lost which can only mean back to Syria or more likely is a planned routing to get a refugee wave going.
Apparently the same is happening in Hatay. Several of his friends are indeed planning to get the night bus and travel to Edirne.
As I’ve mentioned before there are checkpoints on every entry point to Istanbul and it simply is not clear whether Syrians will be allowed through wothout the relevant Istanbul registration papers.
What an effing mess.
As though these guys have not suffered enough they are now again being carted from pillar to post in fear of those who claim to host them so kindly!!
The true face of Turkish racism is never far from the surface I’m afraid.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 28 2020 19:27 utc | 274

@ 274 egor.. thanks for the update.. that is discouraging, but not surprising.. erdogan and the west are largely responsible for all of this as i see it..

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 20:20 utc | 275

Egor68500 264
I ran onto something about it. Under the agreement on de-escalation, Turkey were allowed surveillance drones in Syria. Apparently the Turks armed the drones and it took some time for SAA to realise some strikes were drone strikes and not TOW missile hits.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 21:20 utc | 276

@ 276 peter… that is going to really harden russia and syrias position here… more bullshit is not working in erdogans favour in any of this…

Posted by: james | Feb 28 2020 21:25 utc | 277

james
Yes. I think it may have been the combination of the armed drones plus the manpads that prompted the Russian strike.
That Haftar’s strike on the Turks in Libya was in the same time frame may not have been coincidence.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 28 2020 21:33 utc | 278

@Egor68500 #274
Egor, firstly, thank you for your very interesting updates on the situation inside Turkey. Keep ’em coming! Secondly, why doesn’t your Syrian friend return to Syria? Is it because of the economic situation, or is he opposed to the Assad government?

Posted by: S | Feb 28 2020 22:15 utc | 279

The latest on Twitter is that Turkey stopped using drones to hit SAA and an Egyptian delegation will come to Damascus.
One can imagine this deal: if Turkey normalizes the preposition that it is OK to resolve a civil war by sending mass of troops and air support across the border, Egypt will do it in Libya with deep pleasure. Turkey cannot match Egypt in Libya while Russian navy and Italian navy are poised to intercept their ships etc., while the success in Syria is iffy, etc.
In the meantime, Turkish financial markets show some fragility:
Turkey’s benchmark stock index slipped 10%, or 11,086.38 points, on Friday to start the last transaction day of the week at 99,331.99 points.
At Thursday’s close, Borsa Istanbul’s BIST 100 index was down 4.13% at 110,418.37 points with a daily trading volume of 13.9 billion Turkish liras ($2.3 billion).
The U.S. dollar/Turkish lira exchange rate was 6.2480 as of 9.30 a.m. local time (0630GMT) on Friday, versus 6.1720 at the previous close.
The euro/Turkish lira exchange rate rose to 6.8750, versus 6.7760, and one British pound traded for 8.0680 Turkish liras. It was 7.9720 at Thursday’s close.
In real economy “Turkey’s economy posted a growth rate of 0.9 percent in 2019, according to the Turkish Statistical Institute (TÜİK).” But the last quarter had robust growth and there was a forecast of economy doing better in 2020. But Borsa changed the opinion when Erdogan started a war (or two).
I did not check Russian stocks. Dollar in Russia went up, in line with oil prices going down, but at 65 rubbles per dollar, it is within recent trading range. Most importantly, prices in Russia depend on exchange rate much less than in Turkey, and foreign debt is very small. As far as Egypt is concern, a foray to Libya to support Haftar could be a short victorious expedition, given that Haftar is doing OK without getting help from Egyptian military.
In any case, Twitter had rather morose news before that, so we need to wait for more confirmations.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 5:19 utc | 280

Terrible mess in Syria, conflicting messages,
There is probably some communication between Russia and Turkey in the mode “exchange of threats”, with some tentative proposals “do you want to loose that much, how about this”. This could explain some pauses in air activity on both sides, in Russian case, for 12 hours. Perhaps Russia had to reorganize a package of countermeasures. RuAF is back in action, and defenses against armed Turkish drones got allegedly improved.
Jihadists got anti-aircraft weapons, one reason RuAF reassessed the situation for 12 hours (perhaps). They scored a hit to much joy for everyone: jihadists were happy to down a Russian jet, SAA guys were happy that jihadists downed a Turkish drone instead (target identification by amateurs or Americans in a bout of madness is sketchy).
Armed drones are much more effective that we have predicted, but Pantzirs did down some Israeli drones, so in longer run, this new element it the war theatre should be contained.
There is some revolt in Da’ara, apparently contained. NATO is more two-faced than usual, normally you can tell what they want even when they lie, not now.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 12:32 utc | 281