Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 20, 2020
Sanders Wins Democrats Primary Debate

The various reflections of last night's debate between Democratic party primary candidates give a consistent picture.

  • Bloomberg lost. He had brought a wallet to a knife fight and made a generally bad impression. Even the news service that carries his name headlined: Bloomberg Hammered.
  • Buttigieg was again exposed as the soulless fluff he is.
  • Biden is frail, confused and talks too much.
  • Warren gets some points for hammering Bloomberg. But that is it.
  • Klobuchar gets points for hating Buttigieg but is otherwise too robotic to attract votes.
  • Sanders ably defended his positions against attacks from all sides.
  • Tulsi Gabbard was unfortunately not invited.

This impression seems to be correct:

Carl Beijer @CarlBeijer – 3:01 UTC · 20 Feb 2020

Bernie Sanders is debating like a frontrunner, confidently advancing his agenda and fending off attacks.

Everyone else is frantically trying to make some kind of game-changer happen, throwing up one-liners and cutthroat attacks like Hail Marys with the clock winding down.

The Democrats will likely have a brokered convention. If there is no candidate who gets a majority in the first round, hand selected 'superdelegates' will also vote. They will select the candidate the party's paymasters want. They may even try to rerun Hillary Clinton through this backdoor.

Op-eds that argue for such sham democratic processes are already getting published. Even under the slogan "Democracy Dies in Darkness":


bigger

(The Washington Post changed the above headline after it had caused an outrage on social media.)

All candidates but Bernie Sanders seen to be fine with such anti-democratic schemes. When the moderators asked if the candidate with the most delegates should automatically become the party nominee the answers were:

– Bloomberg: No
– Warren: No
– Biden: No
– Buttigieg: No
– Klobuchar: No
– Sanders: Yes, the inclusion of superdelegates is not indicative of a democratic process.

Sanders economic and domestic policies seem generally okay to me. But his foreign policies are still too aggressive:

In Hungary, far-right authoritarian-nationalist leader Victor Orban models himself after Putin in Russia, saying in a January interview that, “Putin has made his country great again.” Like Putin, Orban has risen to power by exploiting paranoia and intolerance of minorities, including outrageous anti-Semitic attacks on George Soros, but at the same time has managed to enrich his political allies and himself.

Where please is Putin "authoritarian"? When has Putin "exploited paranoia and intolerance of minorities"? When he opened the Grand Mosque in Moscow? And to put the dully elected Duterte of the Philippines and North Korea’s Kim Jong Un into one "authoritarian leaders" pot, as Sanders does in other parts of that speech, makes little sense to me.

Sanders current foreign policy advisor is an aggressive know-nothing:

Matt Duss @mattduss – 1:37 UTC · Feb 20, 2020

"It should come as no surprise, therefore, that those who understand Putin’s kleptocratic system – such the leader of the Russian opposition, Alexei Navalny – are now rooting for Sanders."

Guardian: Hawks say Sanders will be weak on Russia. But Putin should fear a President Bernie

Navalny is a xenophobe and racist nutter. He compared Muslims to cockroaches who should be killed. He does not lead anything and certainly not the Russian opposition. Polls in Russia have him at 1%.

Still – Sanders foreign policy is probably the least aggressive in the field with the exception of probably Gabbard's. Sanders should select her for the vice president position. As a woman of color she would also tick off two now necessary categories.

But first he will have to win the big fight to become the nominee. The powers that be will do their best to prevent that.

Comments

Frankly some people here seem to be living in la-la-land where impossible dreams come true.
How about some realpolitik as practiced by both halves of the amerikan empire party when the VP decision time comes around. Does anyone imagine Kennedy wanted Johnson as VP or Bush I, Dan Quayle or Oblamblam the crookedest man in the senate, Joe Biden?
Of course not they were told to take these hacks as a way for ‘the party’ to keep the hairy eyeball on ‘their’ Prez.
Let’s just pretend for a moment that Sanders came to conference with sufficient delegates that the hope of the DNC to override Sanders with superdelegates was simply too much for the dem party to achieve without alienating a sizable chunk of potential dem voters for life (the odds of that occurring are slimmer than a 2 year old Yemeni, but let’s pretend).
Even if Sanders had sufficient delegates to obviate a brokered conference, it wouldn’t matter, the DNC would still insist on a ‘sit down’ with the Sanders crew and insist he took a particular person as his VP. Sanders could refuse, in which case he could expect zero $$$’s for his campaign from the dems and worse the DNC would tell him that the party money, in many cases donated to the DNC by naifs who ‘wanted to give Bernie a hand’, was going to be spent ‘down ticket’ assisting all the dem pols up for re-election who were committed to opposing Bernie’s favourite policies such as single payer healthcare.
Bernie would be screwed as even if he beat orange moron as he wouldn’t stand a shitshow in hell of getting any of these “radical pinko policies” through, which would be justified by the rightist dem senators & congress-creeps saying “Democrat voters, voted for a democratic president not a marxist president” over and over until the idiots among the public had been sufficiently indoctrinated to believe that tosh. There is no way Gabbard will be permitted as Sanders’ running-mate unless she has totally sold out already.
Maybe Sanders should open the bidding with Gabbard, after which the DNC might offer up ‘Pete the cheat’ to ensure Bernie is defeated, or some other less power-hungry, more malleable dem lick-spittle.
If Sanders is smart enough to play this game, he will already have worded up one or two slightly conservative DC hacks on the qt, then make out he’s making a huge compromise by selecting her/him.
He could conceivably get away with that as long as the DNC mobsters are blindsided – remember most of those DC lowlifes will leap at the chance of the veep’s gig since it puts you in the inside running to be the prez after yer running ‘mate’. And offering it quietly early on would give Sanders the right to insist on blind loyalty – which he prolly wouldn’t get totally, but he would have something close to that
Trouble is I don’t reckon Sanders has the smarts to pull a rort like that off – we shall see. Whatever he does do the odds are high of him being stymied every time if he does make it

Posted by: A User | Feb 21 2020 3:04 utc | 101

Posted by: Krollchem | Feb 21 2020 1:55 utc | 92
In reply to my comment on the process, you wrote
“Actually this is not technically correct…
and then you quoted Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution.
You ignored the process
I wrote on the process in which jim and jane mainstreet vote [the 2nd part of the process] to select the State electors to the Electoral College: from Link (Archives.gov) provided @ 24 and fully detailed below:

November 3, 2020—Election Day
During the general election your vote helps determine your State’s electors. When you vote for a Presidential candidate, you aren’t actually voting for President. You are telling your State which candidate you want your State to vote for at the meeting of the electors. The States use these general election results (also known as the popular vote) to appoint their electors. The winning candidate’s State political party selects the individuals who will be the electors.[.]
Who selects the electors?
Choosing each State’s electors is a two-part process. First, the political parties in each State choose slates of potential electors sometime before the general election. Second, during the general election, the voters in each State select their State’s electors by casting their ballots.
The first part of the process is controlled by the political parties in each State and varies from State to State. Generally, the parties either nominate slates of potential electors at their State party conventions or they chose them by a vote of the party’s central committee. This happens in each State for each party by whatever rules the State party and (sometimes) the national party have for the process. This first part of the process results in each Presidential candidate having their own unique slate of potential electors.
Political parties often choose individuals for the slate to recognize their service and dedication to that political party. They may be State elected officials, State party leaders, or people in the State who have a personal or political affiliation with their party’s Presidential candidate. (For specific information about how slates of potential electors are chosen, contact the political parties in each State.)
The second part of the process happens during the general election. When the voters in each State cast votes for the Presidential candidate of their choice they are voting to select their State’s electors. The potential electors’ names may or may not appear on the ballot below the name of the Presidential candidates, depending on election procedures and ballot formats in each State.
The winning Presidential candidate’s slate of potential electors are appointed as the State’s electors—except in Nebraska and Maine, which have proportional distribution of the electors. In Nebraska and Maine, the State winner receives two electors and the winner of each congressional district (who may be the same as the overall winner or a different candidate) receives one elector. This system permits Nebraska and Maine to award electors to more than one candidate.[.]
(empasis added)

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 21 2020 3:25 utc | 102

Rob @ 99 – I don’t think evidence of this form has been archived anywhere on the Internet. I would be particularly interested in seeing how much of a favorite Clinton was in 2016. I doubt she would have been more than 2/3, and the result not as shocking an upset were Trump actually 1/1. In any event, if the favorite an hour before the books closed always won, who then would ever consider the price on an underdog as an overlay? I’m not addressing any prediction of a winner; I’m observing the changes in public opinion as expressed through those who are willing to take a money position along the way. There would be no other prominent reason for Sanders to reclaim over Bloomberg in less than a week, the Democratic candidate top spot in betting odds, than his strong showing Wednesday night.
All of the legal gambling outlets will tend to keep fairly close in sync with changes in odds offered. Any one of them getting significantly out of sync is taking a position, attracting layoff action from one of the others. When someone makes an investment in this type of futures, it’s with an eye toward spotting an overlay. That means a current line which is offering too strong a return on the investment. The books have several ways of adjusting. They can change the odds offered, lay off action with each other to balance their money position, or offer early resolution to certain ticket holders. For example, Trump opened at 5/2 and toward the end of 2018 had been bet down to 3/2. He is currently 8/13 which represents an extreme overlay if someone is holding a ticket with 3/2 odds. When this kind of situation occurs, all of the books are likely to sustain a loss. So, they will offer early resolution. A $2000 ticket on Trump at 3/2 will return $5000, however anyone holding this ticket may be offered $2750 today for early resolution. That’s an immediate $750 profit for giving back their position.
Now to illustrate just how drastic changes in the futures betting can be, a few hours ago Sanders was 7/2, he’s now 10/3. Bloomberg continues to slide, from 4/1 last week to 11/2 a few hours ago to now 7/1. Perhaps Bloomberg will be attractive enough to become an overlay at 10/1? I would consider that price might be worth taking a position on, if one thinks convention shenanigans will place him as the candidate. At that point (if correct) he’ll drop to say 8/5 and will return a good profit from early resolution.
The changes in the betting lines appear more discernible to me, than a shift of a few percentage point amongst pollsters. Notice Pence is back on the board, so obviously some people think there’s greater than a 300/1 chance Trump is deceased during this term.

Posted by: psychedelicatessen | Feb 21 2020 4:04 utc | 103

Aren’t you being somewhat disingenuous by selectively nitpicking a few sentences out of Bernie’s speech that merely express an opinion, not a declaration of political meddling, intervention or war, while leaving out the positive 90%, like his criticism of Bolsanaro, Netanyahu and Israel’s racist unjust policies and his concern for the dire situation in Gaza?
He rails against Saudi Arabia and MBS and the war on Yemen. He’s critical of Sheldon Adelson’s influence, the Koch brothers and Mercer and the corruption of goverment and the greed they represent. He’s critical of the massive amounts of funding spent on the military. That’s great, no?
He’s sympathetic to the unjust imprisonment of Lula da Silva and talks about the necessity of addressing climate change and poverty and much more. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT??? There’s a Ziofascist in the White House right now who just brought on board Richard Grenell for DNI, (ironically mentioned in Bernie’s speech last October…prophetic? Yes.), yet another Iranophobe! So you can guess what direction we’re headed in?
Out of all the good that Bernie spoke you gripe about that small paragraph and use it to distort as still too aggressive his entire foreign policy vision and pov on issues few in Congress have the spine to address?
You think I’m just going to let slide this perversion of his message?
Just see how so many comments reek with that same type of distortion parotting YOUR CUE. Do you not feel any responsibilty to the truth and to the power your word may have to influence others to misjudge Bernie Sanders unfairly through your distorted lens?
I am sickened reading the comments that emanated from your small paragraph and bet you NO ONE BOTHERED TO READ THE ENTIRE SPEECH IN THE LINK AND RELIED INSTEAD ON THAT DROP FROM POISON PEN TO FORM A TOTALLY IGNORANT, BIASED OPINION.
I’m glad you at least gave him credit for defending well his positions in the midst of multiple attacks in the debate.
If Bernie can withstand the onslaught of unfair, disproportionate establishment and media attacks (your’s included) and win the Nomination, it won’t be thanks to the majority of you, but you will all in some way benefit from an improvement in foreign policy under a Sanders administration. OR DO YOU ACTUALLY PREFER TO DISCUSS WAR AND ATROCITY AND CONSPIRACY MACHINATIONS HERE ALL DAY, EVERY DAY IN PERPETUITY? Maybe that’s the problem, maybe with Bernie as President you’ll be less involved as armchair generals and have to settle for criticizing boring diplomacy for a change!
I don’t know about you, but I really welcome most of what Bernie talked about and his vision for the future on this planet much more than discussing war with Iran, famine and climate disaster.
Bernie will make it in spite of haters, never Sanders, maligners, and distorters of the truth.
Oh, and he’ll DESTROY Trump in November.
▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪
Jared suggests Bloomberg/Gabbard.
Gobbledygook!
I guess you don’t really know what Bloomberg’s about. And you especially don’t get Gabbard! She wouldn’t be caught dead working for that Neocon warmonger!
SharonM and Jackrabbit
Get a room you professional koo-koo spinbots…preferrably in another Solar System where you can’t damage impressionable minds. Ugh.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 4:33 utc | 104

I feel bad for the Bernie Bros.
He’s gonna sell them out again.
Dude has zero pull with his “party”, and is facing a steamroller in Trump.
I would be happy to have a small dinner with Circe and friends after the convention.
We can commiserate over a few wodkas and goulash.

Posted by: Cadence calls | Feb 21 2020 5:04 utc | 105

@104 Circe
“SharonM and Jackrabbit
Get a room you professional koo-koo spinbots…preferrably in another Solar System where you can’t damage impressionable minds. Ugh.”
I’m against war. You’re obviously just another loser imperialist.

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 21 2020 5:14 utc | 106

Since medical care figures so prominently in the election, might be a good idea to know why it costs so much now:
The Oligarch Takeover of US Pharma and Healthcare by Jon Hellevig
“The Awara study shows https://www.awaragroup.com/blog/us-healthcare-system-in-crisis/ that in addition to the original sin of corporate greed, the exorbitant costs of the US healthcare system stem from layers upon layers of distortions with which the system is infested. Each part of the healthcare industry contributes to what is a giant monopoly scam: the pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment manufacturers, drug wholesalers, drug stores, group purchasing organizations, health insurance companies, doctors, clinics and hospitals, and even what should be impartial university research. And on top of that, there’s the government as a giant enabler of monopolized corporations running roughshod over the American consumer and patient.
“But it is worse than that. All the monopolists (in official parlance, oligopolies) are in turn owned by the same set of investors in what is called horizontal shareholding. The same some 15-20. investors have the controlling stake in all the leading companies of the entire pharma and healthcare industry.
“That’s not all. Two of the investors, BlackRock and Vanguard, are the biggest owners in almost every single one of the leading companies.
“Furthermore, BlackRock is owned by Vanguard, BlackRock’s biggest owner being a mystical PNC Services, whose biggest owner in turn is Vanguard. Vanguard itself is recorded directly as BlackRock’s second biggest owner. Moreover, BlackRock and Vanguard are the two biggest owners of almost all the other 15-20 biggest investors, which most are cross-owned and together own the entire US pharma and healthcare sector. Ultimately, then we might have the situation that the whole healthcare sector and Big Pharma are controlled by one giant oligarch clan (and the very real people who stand behind them), one single interest group of oligarch investors.” — http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52658.htm
PS: US is now 33d in life expectancy.

Posted by: Penelope | Feb 21 2020 5:30 utc | 107

Yesterday some dirty dog, Bloomberg or weasel Buttigieg, brought up the fact that Bernie has 2 million, and 3 homes, one in Washington, a house in Vermont his wife inherited from her parents and a cabin by a lake! OMG! QUICK! Call the Socialist police! He’s 78, has a career in politics, wrote some bestsellers and he has to live like a monk otherwise, he’s a hypocrite???
The hypocrites are the ones criticizing him and not Warren who appeared in Forbes cause she has two expensive homes, and 12 MILLION. But, at the debate she was coy and uncommonly silent when they attacked Bernie for what is perfectly normal given his career, success as an author and his age!
But Lizabeth, she cares so much about poor mothers and babies, and shares Bernie’s platform, and yet is too chicken to call herself a democratic socialist. Yeah, with 12 Mil in the bank and different investments she’s got a big stake in Capitalism! And someone mentionned that during the commercial break she was getting quite friendly yacking it up with Bloomberg, AFTER she put on the Non-disclosure artifice (watch out for hidden mics, Mike!). And she’s not big on democracy either, since she would rather go to a brokered convention, than give Bernie the nomination when he gets the majority of pledged delegates. Screw her!
Oh Lizzie, you showed all your true colors!
DONE, put a fork in it!
▪▪▪▪▪
SharonM
Against war and for Trump? 🤣🤣🤣
Trust me, Bernie’s not starting any war at his age, and he’s from a bucolic state. If you think Bernie’s for war and I’m an imperialist, then must be a real bad judge of character.
You fool no one. You hate Bernie for some other stupid reason.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 5:45 utc | 108

Really, the Oligarch party composed of the Republican and Democrat branches will not make any significant changes to the status quo, even if Sanders is voted in to the presidency. Sanders’ foreign policy is the Oligarch policy; Sanders domestic policy would never get past the Oligarch house without significant watering down to be totally irrelevant. Sanders only “threat” to the Oligarchs is that the presidency would give him a 4-year platform to continue to put forth his semi-socialist domestic views, seeding the brains of the ignorant masses with dangerous thoughts.
Voting for either branch of the Oligarch party is to vote for the status quo. All that is guaranteed are a few cosmetic changes of zero significance. Vote, but vote anyone but the Oligarch Party!

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 21 2020 6:19 utc | 109

A positive assessment of the chances of Sanders to win the nomination:
“Former South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg’s presidential campaign called on former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg to drop out of the Democratic presidential primary race in a memo released on Thursday, warning that Bloomberg’s presence in the race would propel Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) to the Democratic nomination. ”
Pete could be more incisive by pointing that unlike his much more financially successful colleague from the race of nomination, he has no track record on making unwanted passes on women, or jokes that cannot be revealed to the publics. More seriously, American establishment is so vast that it is internally divided into various groups or cliques that detest each other. Pete is a darling of CIA circles, Bloomberg is so rich that he nearly makes an influence group by himself., but he may be popular among Wall Street denizens who donate to Metropolitan Opera and snicker at Trump who could not tell Verdi from Barbie doll. On political positions, I wonder if there is an ounce of difference.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 21 2020 7:26 utc | 110

There is a lot of criticism in these comments about Sanders not going all out against the Democratic Party and playing too nice, but a counterpoint to consider is that we have a perfect example to contrast his behavior with: Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi was vice chair of the DNC and considered one of their “rising stars” in part because of the elites’ insipid love of identity politics, and she is demonstrating the country what happens when you go nuclear against the establishment. She burned her political capital to back Bernie in 2016 and went on the attack during the debates she was able to get into. Would Sanders really get better results doing what Tulsi is doing, and if so, why would he going that course be different?

Posted by: YnO | Feb 21 2020 7:41 utc | 111

Likklemore@102
What you describe is what is generally done. If the State legislature chooses to ignore the vote then your argument is not valid.
Please see the US Constitution that I linked…

Posted by: Krollchem | Feb 21 2020 8:27 utc | 112

@95 sharon.. thanks.. that sounds reasonable.. however at present either one of the war parties is going to win.. i suppose some will think bernie i war party lite or something, but regardless if he gets the nod – which i highly doubt – the war party is still in control.. something bigger has to happen for this to change.. collapse is a popular fantasy for some.. i am not sure if or when that could happen too.. it is hard being reasonable in this atmosphere.. i am inclined to more radical thinking as the answer at this point..

Posted by: james | Feb 21 2020 8:29 utc | 113

“It’s time to give the elites a bigger say in electing the President”
Under Trump Bezos lost highly profitable interests, and under a second Trump term he would likely lose still more. If any of the elites’ choices get the Dem nomination, Trump is certain to win. Perhaps Bezos’ reasoning was to try to provoke Dem supporters to reject the elites because that is the only chance of getting back the business interests he lost.
Bezos is a nasty piece of work indeed, but to his credit, maybe he at least sees the need of a more acceptable candidate.

Posted by: BM | Feb 21 2020 8:58 utc | 114

“They” have thrown down everything against Sanders yet he continues to rise. His support base is HUGE. Competition can’t touch him. His victories will put him up so much that the DNC is rendered powerless.
Of all the candidates, Tulsi Gabbard is far away the closest in ideology to Sanders. She entered the race with Bernie’s approval, before Bernie announced. Bernie knows that Tulsi is the only one (other than Nina Turner) that would totally have his back. I actually believe that Gabbard is the best candidate that the US has had in a LONG time. If she were selected as VP she would get a lot more exposure; the more exposure the more support she gets. I don’t believe that Bernie needs to pick a VP in order to garner more votes; that is, it’s not as strategically necessary as other candidates have required: I repeat: Bernie’s base is HUGE. Tulsi is a BIG insurance policy. VP isn’t a do-nothing position: it can cast a tie-breaking vote in the senate; it can act as collaborator with POTUS. In a more correct positioning of talents it would be Gabbard as POTUS and Sanders as VP. I’d be happy to see Nina Turner as VP but am worried that the pairing with Sanders would create too stark of a picture, one open to really ugly attacks: it’s hard to attack Tulsi given her military experience (I hate that this needs to be played, but it’s the reality we face). AND there’s the VP debates: Tulsi vs Pence would be one for the history books.

Posted by: Seer | Feb 21 2020 10:26 utc | 115

Turkey closed its airspace to russian airplanes flying to Syria and slowed down the so called Syrian Express. The straights would be closed in case of declared war but the flow can be slowed down by other means. Hard to think that war will be officially declared with all the joint projects in energy, but logistics would be a real problem for Russia if things get uglier.
http://www.ng.ru/politics/2020-02-20/1_7800_bosphorus.html
The second question of the 20 series to Putin is about Ukraine, as usual he comes across as well informed and with ease of verve.
https://putin.tass.ru/ru/ob-ukraine/

Posted by: Paco | Feb 21 2020 10:29 utc | 116

Circe
I guess you don’t really know what Bloomberg’s about. And you especially don’t get Gabbard! She wouldn’t be caught dead working for that Neocon warmonger!
Please advise – What is Bloomberg about.
In my experience he is a conservative moderate.
Do we just describe everyone we dont like as zionist?

Posted by: jared | Feb 21 2020 11:21 utc | 117

– The american writer Thomas Frank has put this way: The Democrats had every opportuniy to win the presidential election of 2016 by focussing on the people in “fly-over land”, on the people who felt “left bhind” but instead they focussed on the “creative class” (laywers, the “professional class”, hollywood and people from the tech sector (GOOGLE, Facebook, etc.).
– It was the presidential campaign of Trump who saw the chance to win over the people from “fly-over country”.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 21 2020 11:34 utc | 118

@Jared (#117):
– Yes, Bloomberg is a moderate republican but he is also an establishment figure/person. So, he won’t be the one that will bring about MAJOR changes that are going to hurt that same establishment. Including the “zionists” (with or without quotation marks).

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 21 2020 11:38 utc | 119

– The people who are commenting on this topic should take into account one thing. Over the years the Republican party has purged the party of “moderate Republicans”. As a result of that Republican party shifted more and more to the right side of the political spectrum.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 21 2020 11:47 utc | 120

About Butt-gig…
If you were running a giant organized crime group with cash flow in the hundreds of $billions, with tentacles deeply penetrating all of the mass media, with connections at the top of all major western multinational corporations, and you wanted to “manage” the political system of the country that finances the military that you occasionally need, how would you do that?
Run you own candidates, of course!
So it is 2015. You’ve already gotten one of your candidates elected twice, and you are confident that mass media cultivated “identity politics” played a big part in getting him into the White House. Because of this you are now running another “identity politics” compliant candidate, but you have some tricks up your sleeve to guarantee she wins. Most importantly you have an utter heel running against her who cannot possibly win.
So you [big mafia don] are confident that you have the 2016 and 2020 elections sewn up, but even though it is only 2015, now is the time to be thinking about 2024. You’ve already used up the woman and Black man identity issues, so what next? The gay man “identity politics” angle, of course! So now you need to introduce to the public a gay candidate that is under your control so the public can start to get used to him and he can become widely known by the time campaigning starts in 2023.
Remind me now when it was that Butt-gig “came out” as gay? Oh, yeah, that’s right! It was 2015. He then “married” in 2018.
“But Butt-gig is so young!”
Sure. Realize that he wasn’t supposed to be running until 2024, when he would be in his forties. 2016 and 2020 were supposed to be Clinton’s turn in the White House, but things went all sideways for some reason. Now you have to move up the timetable.
Butt-gig is CIA.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 21 2020 12:18 utc | 121

– Bernie Sanders has promised FREE education/college and FREE Healthcare. Although I have SERIOUS doubts how he is going to pay for all that FREE stuff, the large support he enjoys shows very well how Joe Sixpack is thinking about his own economic situation.
– There were A LOT OF voters who voted first for Sanders in the primaries. When it became clear that Sanders wasn’t going to be the Democratic candidate these voters votes for Trump in november 2016.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 21 2020 12:43 utc | 122

Blue Dotterel is not satisfied: >>Sanders only “threat” to the Oligarchs is that the presidency would give him a 4-year platform to continue to put forth his semi-socialist domestic views, seeding the brains of the ignorant masses with dangerous thoughts.
Voting for either branch of the Oligarch party is to vote for the status quo. All that is guaranteed are a few cosmetic changes of zero significance. Vote, but vote anyone but the Oligarch Party! Sanders only “threat” to the Oligarchs is that the presidency would give him a 4-year platform to continue to put forth his semi-socialist domestic views, seeding the brains of the ignorant masses with dangerous thoughts.<< But the oligarchy and sectors close to oligarchy are already worried exactly about that. For example, certain David Brook is almost morose. A nightmare that is at least 170 years old reappeared: >>Bernie Sanders is also telling a successful myth: The corporate and Wall Street elites are rapacious monsters who hoard the nation’s wealth and oppress working families. This is not an original myth, either. It’s been around since the class-conflict agitators of 1848. It is also a very compelling us vs. them worldview that resonates with a lot of people.
When you’re inside the Sanders myth, you see the world through the Bernie lens.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 21 2020 12:50 utc | 123

William Gruff:
So, do you basically imply that the next run, after Black, Woman and Gay, would be Latino? In which case they actually planned well ahead and AOC could be their card for 2032? Or would that be too far-fetched? (she seems to go a bit too far into leftism for that after all)

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Feb 21 2020 13:04 utc | 124

@108 Circe
“SharonM
Against war and for Trump? 🤣🤣🤣
Trust me, Bernie’s not starting any war at his age, and he’s from a bucolic state. If you think Bernie’s for war and I’m an imperialist, then must be a real bad judge of character. You fool no one. You hate Bernie for some other stupid reason.”
Here are some relevant questions with Bernie’s answers:
*Question: Would you consider military force to pre-empt an Iranian or North Korean nuclear or missile test?
Sanders: Yes.
*Question: Would you consider military force for a humanitarian intervention?
Sanders: Yes.
*Question: If Russia continues on its current course in Ukraine and other former Soviet states, should the United States regard it as an adversary, or even an enemy?
Sanders: Yes.
*Question: Should Russia be required to return Crimea to Ukraine before it is allowed back into the G-7?
Sanders: Yes.
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/02/14/sanders-tells-new-york-times-he-would-consider-a-preemptive-strike-against-iran-or-north-korea/
Don’t care about your dumb opinion, Circe. But I don’t want anyone else here to think I’m some supporter of the U.S. regimes two war parties. Bernie is just like Trump, Obama, the Bush and Clinton families–warmongering assholes all of them.

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 21 2020 13:14 utc | 125

@113 James
I agree. An actual revolution here would probably require masses of people on the verge of starvation. But perhaps there’s a trigger event that we can’t foresee?

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 21 2020 13:20 utc | 126

As long as Sanders treats Latin America with respect, I will vote for him. He just said that he backs Evo Morales in Bolivia. That is a good sign.

Posted by: Victor | Feb 21 2020 13:49 utc | 127

Willy2 @ 122 says:
Bernie Sanders has promised FREE education/college and FREE Healthcare. Although I have SERIOUS doubts how he is going to pay for all that FREE stuff,…
he’s not.
and there’s the rub, or the common denominator between domestic policy and foreign policy…i.e. lucre (and hellfire missiles are so much sexier, right?).
if a candidate is not clamoring loudly that the defense budget must be cut by at least 50%, he or she is being disingenuous, if not downright deceptive, about enacting any kind of national healthcare, education, or whatnot.

Posted by: john | Feb 21 2020 13:59 utc | 128

james @113:

[If Bernie wins] the war party is still in control.. i am inclined to more radical thinking … at this point.

When reasonable, level-headed people like james are “inclined to more radical thinking” then the establishment is really in trouble.
Will they take heed? Nah, they’ll just send out more Circe dembots.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 21 2020 14:10 utc | 129

@125 SharonM
If you were an anti-war candidate running for President of a militarized security state that is so easily brainwashed by half a billion dollars in ads run by a war-mongering Ziofascist and one of the highest-circulated Zionist-run propaganda rags asked trap questions to test their definition of patriotism on you, you too would go through the motions and give them what they wanna hear so they would leave you the fock alone for the rest of the campaign.
Now, if you’re looking to blow in 15 minutes your years in the making efforts to win the Presidency and use your power to change that security state mentality, then you would stupidly answer what you’re suggesting.
You’re a Trumpbot. AND I COULD GIVE A SHET WHAT YOU THINK.
Bernie wants to restore the Iran deal, and do diplomacy with Iran, and substantially reduce military spending. Bernie is as anti-war a politicisn as I’ve seen in my lifetime. I’ll bank on his wisdom over your intellectual dishonesty ANY DAY, ANY TIME, ANY WHERE. Unlike you, a lousy judge of character, or just plain demonizing Trumpbot on a fool’s mission, I am an excellent judge of character who had Ziofascist Trump pegged from day one and took two years of flak for it! Today, I’ve been vindicated in every way. Ziofascist Trump is the agent provocateur in the Middle East unilaterally, repeatedly resorting to multiple acts of war against the Palestinians, Syria, Iraq and Iran. If he didn’t trigger war yet, it’s not for lack of trying! Everyone is wisely on hold prevailing on their cool-headedness hoping Americans elect a SANE, and more humane President, and that President will be Bernie Sanders.
When Bernie shuts the door on that lunatic’s orange-cake face the entire planet will breathe A COLLECTIVE SIGH.
Now go bark your fake purist bullshet at someone stupid enough to fall for it. I’m a firewall for the truth and you’re barking up the wrong tree and messing with someone berning for justice.
PRESIDENT BERNIE SANDERS
Get used to it; it’s happening.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 14:25 utc | 130

@ Circe | Feb 21 2020 14:25 utc | 130
If Sanders actually got into the Presidency and threatened established interests, then he would be given a non-refusable invitation to vist Dallas and drive past the Texas Shoolbook Depositary.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 21 2020 14:40 utc | 131

Or even the:
Texas schoolbook depository

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 21 2020 14:43 utc | 132

@130 Circe
Oh sure, Bernie is just playing 4d chess, right? We’ve been hearing that for years about Trump as he bombs countries, assassinates people, and overthrows governments. We’ll have to relive it all hearing about Bernie’s grand scheme to undermine the MIC by doing exactly what the MIC wants. You’re just another fake following a warmonger.

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 21 2020 14:43 utc | 133

Piotr Berman,
“But the oligarchy and sectors close to oligarchy are already worried exactly about that. For example, certain David Brook is almost morose. A nightmare that is at least 170 years old reappeared”
Well if Sanders does manages to get the Dem. nomination, then go ahead and vote for him. Just, do not expect anything to change during his administration.
Otherwise, if someone else gets it, Sanders will be put out to pasture, and no one will hear from him again. He was pretty quiet the past three years. For Sanders, and his domestic ideas to blossom, he needs to be able to win the presidency, not just run for it. This is why the Oligarchy will probably tank him. Right now, very few people in the US are politically active. It is only the primaries after all. They are mostly ignored by the vast majority of the electorate despite CNN’s propaganda polls (which read only 52% interest anyway). In fact, US elections for pres are regularly ignored by almost half the population, anyway.
If anyone else gets the dem nomination, there is no point voting for the Oligarch Party.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 21 2020 14:49 utc | 134

@117 jared
Do you realize the damage you’re doing to your credibility and reputation tooting Bloomberg’s horn here?
Bloomberg is a rabid Zionist who defied a flight ban making a cruel, pompous spectacle of himself flying into Tel Aviv during Israel’s massive criminal assault on Gaza while vociferously supporting Israel’s shelling of children, schools and hospitals.
Bloomberg is a Ziofascist Israel shill Neocon BUSH jr REPUBLICAN. Complete Presidential disqualification in one sentence.
Now run along with your leaky can of Bloomberg whitewash.
Sheesh, how pathetic!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 14:52 utc | 135

Posted by: Krollchem | Feb 21 2020 8:27 utc | 112
If the State legislature chooses to ignore the vote then your argument is not valid.
Please see the US Constitution that I linked…

And you continue to ignore Process. Well, in Constitutional Law courses that very scenario is addressed. In Law, Process matters.
if the State legislature choses to ignore the vote..”[..]
if not members of the Parties elected to the Legislature, pray tell how is the Legislature comprised?
You do know when (ahead of the general election) the Republicans and Democratic Parties appoint their respective representative slate of electors they take into account Party Loyalists who are pledged to vote the presidential ticket?
On pledges of the electors: 29 states have laws forbidding the electors to violate their pledges.
In recent history: December 2016, Trump had the required electoral votes and the Hillary Mob attempted a full-throated campaign to have some of the Republican electors switch their votes at the Electoral College!!
How did that work out?
There were 7 “Faithless electors” who ignored their pledges. Oeps of the 7: five defected Democratic-loser Clinton and two the Republican president- elect. [Cases are on appeal before the Supreme Court; to be heard in 2019-2020 term]
When the Electors’ switchero campaign did not succeed, Russiagate was the lever to frustrate Trump’s presidency. Russiagate will continue as long as the orangeman occupies the White House.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 21 2020 14:57 utc | 136

WP > “…After a senior U.S. intelligence official told lawmakers last week that Russia wants to see President Trump reelected…”
UNZ> “…Mayor Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar and Vice President Biden are being told that if they do not get out of the race and clear the lane for the mayor, they will get a socialist as their nominee, and the party will deserve the fate November will bring — a second term for Trump…”
Now then, when will the intel dudes claim Buttboi and Buyiden and Klob are commie agents? Why already Wally suspects Putin’s on the secret Badenov Shoe-phone with his vast army of verraters… I mean, there must be Some Truth, right?
And if (mirabele dictu) Burner get’s ‘lected and avoids Dallas… if that, then how will they change the story and tell us Burner is a Putin controlled Putin versteher?
(“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” (CIA Director Casey)
Karlofi mooted Beard’s “Republic”… A proud attempt by Beard, but, alas (!) it reads like a sad comic… Painful.
Perhaps one interesting point there though > Lincoln’s first inaugural.
I’ll leave that for K-Man to discuss, if he likes.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 21 2020 15:03 utc | 137

I’m all for disrupting the Democratic Party by voting for Sanders in the Primary.
But anyone that thinks that Sanders will be allowed to actually win the Primary is smoking something. And anyone that thinks that Sanders isn’t working with the Democratic establishment to accomplish their goals is snorting something.
Sanders is there as window-dressing and to lure young voters into the Democratic Party fold as a “Democracy Works!” ploy (a form of ‘stay in school’ PSA).
The Democratic Party won’t actually nominate him because Americans would vote for Bernie’s anti-oligarch program in droves. Anyone with any sense knows that the oligarchs have too much money and too much power and that government services monied interests instead of the people.
<> <> <> <> <> <>
We are now in a new Cold War. And we are on the brink of ANOTHER major war in the Middle East. It’s long-past time to see through the bullshit propaganda, fakery, and scheming.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 21 2020 15:08 utc | 138

Copy/paste Jackrabbit who hasn’t hatched an original thought in quite some time tries to project his professional troll gig on me. Dembot? Is that all you could come up with?
As with Bernie, I might be more like, hmmm… how would I describe myself?
The Dems worst nightmare⁉️ 😜
…soon to become the Trump-era TERMINATOR.
or, better yet, Circe unleashed.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 15:23 utc | 139

Jackrabbit | Feb 21 2020 15:08 utc | 138
“Smokin’ ??”
“…This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it…”
Wally is a bit shocked…here’s Lincoln saying the Revolution is a Right… And he wuz smokin…what?
But yes, context matters…read the entire document>
First Inaugural Address of Abraham Lincoln
MONDAY, MARCH 4, 1861
Fellow-Citizens of the United States: (avalon / yale / edu an’ all of that)

Posted by: Walter | Feb 21 2020 15:23 utc | 140

All the slander being heaped upon Bernie is not going to drain one jot of energy from the momentum of his campaign. The trolls desire above all for a tide of chaos to wash over the country. The energy in this movement is going play out on the convention floor and beyond; and the spirit of the people is not about to be diminished or crushed.
It is best not to give up on the struggle, especially when the stakes have been made so clear as Bloomberg plants the flag of oligharchy in this election. Only Sanders and Warren had the decency to react with moral vigor to this outrage.
This is far from over. This is just getting interesting.

Posted by: Copeland | Feb 21 2020 15:55 utc | 141

Clueless Joe @124
Correct, as I see it that would be too far-fetched. I cannot see AOC being managed opposition, even if her behavior doesn’t seem very leftish sometimes. The establishment’s biggest concern with their management of the political process is to make sure that some of the things that AOC discusses remain outside the scope of acceptable political discourse. See Willy2 above with his “Free stuff!” narrative for how the establishment wants people to react… the establishment wants to prevent the public from even considering reallocating resources away from the military and corporate subsidies to so-called “Free stuff!” While AOC’s ideology and support for Pelosi and such might leave some leftists unimpressed, the fact that she even discusses free-at-the-point-of-use healthcare and education as well as living wages strongly suggests that she is not part of the establishment’s operation.
I honestly do not think the establishment has any plans for pandering very much to Latin American identity… there is far too much revolution in that identity. My guess is that the plans post-Butt-gig are to mix things up… say a Black lesbian or Black transsexual, for instance. Keep in mind this would be planned for 2028 (previously 2030) so whoever they have in mind would only be starting to get publicly groomed for the job now. The potential individuals may not have even had their debutante unveiling to the public yet.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 21 2020 16:29 utc | 142

@Copeland, 141

The trolls desire above all for a tide of chaos to wash over the country.

Well, true, but we don’t need much help. The Sanders campaign has been a gift to socialists who can piggy-back off of his demolition of decades of John Birch Society indoctrination against socialism. But as far as I’m concerned, that’s the only good thing he’s done. Him losing will be better for socialists – who can benefit from his supporters flocking to our organizations – rather than him winning and forcing us to take him in as “our guy” or us being tarred with any failures of his presidency.

Posted by: fnord | Feb 21 2020 16:40 utc | 143

“[Sanders] losing will be better for socialists…” –fnord @143
Not good strategy. People are not ready to go for real revolution yet. They need to try half measures first and see those half measures fail or be attacked and defeated by the oligarchs. Sanders losing will cause many people to either drop out of the movement or switch to the far right. Sanders victory is needed just to show the masses that victory is possible. People pursue socialist revolution out of a sense of optimism and open possibilities, not desperation. Desperation leads to fascism.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 21 2020 17:01 utc | 144

Uh-Oh, Jackrabbit just got scorched by Walter’s bern brilliance.
I’m a lover of pithy truth, and here’s one to describe Bernie’s movement:
The real revolution is the evolution of consciousness.
Here’s one to prepare for Trump’s Bernie strategy:
When a narcissist can no longer control you, they will instead try to control how others see you.
(In other words, always keep in mind; they’re coming at you from a position of weakness.)
In my words:
The key to triumph over evil is to take the fight into the light and INSPIRE ALLEGIANCE.
That’s Bernie’s strength, and that’s why Bernie Sanders will become the 46th President of the United States.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 17:03 utc | 145

While Trump boasts he’s the master of 4D chess; he will be outplayed by Bernie Sanders, the 4D Master of CHESED.
Bernie Sanders will defeat Donald J. Trump to become President of the United States.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 17:28 utc | 146

William Gruff | Feb 21 2020 17:01 utc | 144 > I have seen it said – I think it was Chris Hedges recently in dialogue with Wolff – that socialists always surrender when confronted with nationalism. The example was the Socialist against the Kaiser…
In re Bernie, that may possibly be significant, if it happens.
As to ready… They’re never ready, Brother, they only act when they have nothing left – of course this is variable according to their perceptions and general character, “race” if you like, or Tribe, and humans are famously variable hybrid critters…hence the vital nature of a vast propaganda so powerful as to create generations of absurd belief…
What a grand rude freak show…

Posted by: Walter | Feb 21 2020 17:43 utc | 147

My word! Has our brother, William Gruff, undergone a quiet conversion?
Welcome to the light. 😇

Posted by: Circe | Feb 21 2020 17:43 utc | 148

@ 126 sharon quote ” But perhaps there’s a trigger event that we can’t foresee?” yes.. that is usually the case.. it might be a short or long ways off though! we can’t foresee that either..
@ 129 jackrabbit… i am not sure when this madness will end..and as for dem or trump bots – it is endless!
i see the word oligarchy being mentioned.. it is always pitched as ‘russian’ oligarchs, but in fact there are a good number of ‘american’ oligarchs too… personally i can’t really see the difference, other then as a propaganda tool to slander one side, but not the other…

Posted by: james | Feb 21 2020 17:48 utc | 149

@ John (128):
– Agree. Sanders can pay for those promises by cutting or eliminating the defense budget. But I never heard Sanders say anything on the topic “Defense Spending”. I fear that he doesn’t want to cut defense spending or that he knows that talking about cutting defense spending will harm his chances of becoming president.

Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 21 2020 18:10 utc | 150