Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 05, 2020

Open Thread 2020-09

News & views ...

Posted by b on February 5, 2020 at 16:06 UTC | Permalink

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Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 14:21 utc | 199

"Sanders is a life-long independent. That may be part of the reason why the Dems will not let him into their tent."

It's part of the sheep-dogging routine. Sanders as a fake "independent" is more useful to the DNC than Sanders as a de jure Democrat. That's why the DNC has always withheld support from bona fide Democrat candidates for the Vermont senate seat.

And what real independent would ever issue unilateral pledges to support the Democratic nominee and do all he can to deliver his supporters to whatever that nominee is, as Sanders has done twice now?

Posted by: Russ | Feb 6 2020 14:29 utc | 201

big time problem <= this link by Scotch Bingeington #171 <=thanks.
and Thank you again. and you tungsten @ 176 for your comment about that link which follows.
If the USA has a consulate in Wuhan then I would propose that there is no further need for the consulate in Hong Kong. The Chinese government would be wise to notify the USA of the immediate closure of the HK consulate accreditation and request them to relocate to their approved consulate in Wuhan. It certainly is much closer to the heart of China. by: uncle tungsten @ 176 <=I agree with you the content of this link defies apology if its implications are born out. wow?

The content of this link needs to be investigated immediately IMO.

Posted by: snake | Feb 6 2020 14:35 utc | 202

@ Posted by: dorje | Feb 6 2020 14:23 utc | 200

Like the Americans are lying about the dead in the military base in Iraq?

Posted by: vk | Feb 6 2020 14:36 utc | 203

Really? #102

You evaded 98% of the question. Let me restate it:

The NSDAP (nazi party) supported an extensive welfare state. It included free higher education, family and child support, pensions, health insurance and an array of publically supported entertainment and vacation options.


Hiking trips and limited vacations for Nazi party members ≠ ≠ "extensive welfare state" or any of the rest except for "vacation options"....for a decent rundown by an actual historian, I recommend this article.

Posted by: Mister Wiggles | Feb 6 2020 7:17 utc | 153

Thanks so much for your sniping!
The query was not directed at me, but at Nick.
I was only trying to help the hapless, always-pedantic, self-important know-it-all Vk, who asks for "Sources?" on a point of history that is well known.
I stated: To help you ***get started.***
I meant, getting your own sources, Dumbo.

If you know better, why didn't you help VK out yourself?

Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 14:43 utc | 204

@snake #203:

The content of this link needs to be investigated immediately IMO.

And you need to read my comment #197 immediately.

Posted by: S | Feb 6 2020 14:44 utc | 205

The Iowa Caucuses debacle:

Aside from App failure, math skills in Iowa came in short which is not surprising. It's the Sums. What is 10% of $10.50?

'Problematic' Math Leads To Iowa Caucus Counting Confusion
ZH link

After an app created by a Democratic digital firm botched the Iowa caucus results, the 1,678 precincts across the state resorted to awarding delegates using a "Caucus Math Worksheet," causing significant delays in reporting.

The worksheet requires caucus workers perform basic multiplication and division, and then round the results up or down.

Unfortunately, Iowa Democrats are apparently terrible at math and rounding, as journalist and co-founder of Smart Elections, Lulu Friesdat, reveals that 30% of the worksheets she examined contained errors.

The #RoundingErrors could lead to a significant number of delegates. They were in 30% of the precincts we examined. If 30% of 1678 precincts have an extra delegate assigned this way, it could be approximately 500 delegates. Buttigieg is currently leading Sanders[.]

The kicker, "If 30% of 1678 precincts have an extra delegate assigned this way, it could be approximately 500 delegates. Buttigieg is currently leading Sanders by 18 delegates."

[Article was updated]:
Update: Friesdat has provided an update and deleted the below tweets on rounding errors, after it was pointed out that the Iowa Democratic Party rules call for a delegate to be awarded to the candidate 'with the highest decimal below .5' for the number of delegates per candidate.

Friesdat says that the math is still 'problematic,' as "Extra delegates are there because you're dividing by total caucus members, not final voters."]

What difference does it make. a fraction or two? Surprise, surprise, Not. a. pips. from. Bernie. (sheep is a quiet animal). Everyone is on the campaign trail in snowy New Hampshire - weather forecast, up to 24" of snow over the next 12 hours. Got snow shovel?

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 6 2020 14:44 utc | 206


"...Ralph Nader took a bunch of heat for running third party and allegedly drawing enough votes away from Gore to get Bush elected..."

I'm glad you said "allegedly". That is a hugely false argument that has 'legitimized' a two party system, and you see where we are with that. I am one person that can deny that statement. It was the Democrats, in their treatment of Nader, that so angered me I could no longer vote for THEM. Clearly, they did not have the understanding nor the appropriate generosity to allow him to express his ideas. Now, should I still have voted for them, assuming that his ideas were friendly to them? Well, I probably would have, had they even pretended that a third candidate was welcome to the debates. They didn't do that, and so I voted for Nader, and that is a vote to this day that I am very proud of. As I am of my vote for Jill Stein.

It used to be the case that third parties were appreciated in debates because their views were often taken into the winning candidate's personal platform as expressing ideas from the people that were worthy of study. The duopoly has made that a very difficult and costly affair. THAT SUCKS!

Posted by: juliania | Feb 6 2020 14:48 utc | 207


I was a long-time lurker who recently started posting a few little tidbits. I've noticed that the Whiskey Bar is full of strange names and faces now. For a more efficient way to read the comments from commenters I appreciate, I go to the bottom of each comment page and scroll up, initially skipping the unfamiliar names and focusing on those whose opinions and merit I trust, but eventually going back and reading for replies to the more interesting sub-threads.

Mr. Wiggles


Posted by: Mister Wiggles | Feb 6 2020 7:28 utc | 158

I doubt anyone cares about your lurking or reading habits.
Maybe you need a therapist to tell this to.
I expect you are an avatar of Jackrabbit, with your silly $$.

Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 14:50 utc | 208

The day demands integrity and both Bernie and Tulsi claim to have that in spades. Its time to be either on the bus or get off the bus. No more drinking the DNC cool aid playing nice.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 6 2020 11:09 utc | 169

I second your whole post.

Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 14:55 utc | 209

That Good Man, Dear Jeffery has arisen from the dead?

Jeffrey Epstein’s Mystery Bank Came Alive After His Death (NYT)

(also a link at cryptogon dot com)

If so, he must know somebody really important, eh?

It seems that the money's "funny" and evaporating ex post mortis.

Jeff's left a note>

ex vita discedo, tanquam ex hospitio, non tanquam ex domo

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 14:56 utc | 210

Why would any serious American voter choose third parties.

Posted by: Vig | Feb 6 2020 13:57 utc | 195

It's better than not voting at all.

Imagine if all of the abstainers instead voted "neither democrat nor republican" - the relative lack of support for either party and the need for a genuine alternative would become obvious pretty quickly.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Feb 6 2020 14:59 utc | 211

vk 198
"If you read the Chinese MSM (in Mandarin, not the English version), you'll quickly see the the most harsh critics of the situation is the Chinese government itself. "

Since you read Mandarin, please supply the rest of us with a translation.

Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 15:11 utc | 212

Feb 6 2020 14:59 utc | 212 3erd party/ voting/why

I always vote, but I often vote null. That's to say that some offices I vote for the candidate who cannot possibly get elected, or simply leave a blank space.

I vote because it matters who gets to be sheriff, or county judge, or on the zoning commission. And because it's like a visit to the carnival and watching the rubes, my neighbors - ever so passionate about things that they can have no effect on. And especially because if you vote you'll probably get called to a jury. And on a jury they count the votes. One vote can bring justice, on a jury.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 15:11 utc | 213

@ Posted by: Really?? | Feb 6 2020 15:11 utc | 213


A simple machine translation suffices. You're not reading Chinese literature.

Posted by: vk | Feb 6 2020 15:18 utc | 214

I've always felt that some enterprising person could legally change their name to "None of the Above" and stand an extremely good chance of winning.

Posted by: J Swift | Feb 6 2020 15:24 utc | 215

Question for those trying to cast Sanders as being a willful tool of the establishment deliberately guiding stragglers on the left back into the Democrat fold: Before the 2016 election was it possible to ever hear the word "socialism" in American corporate mass media except where it was being scornfully denigrated?

No, prior to Sanders last run at the Presidency the corporate mass media had successfully restricted ALL (as in 100%, never letting even a single positive word through) discussion referring to socialism to the narrative that it was evil, had as a goal causing everyone to starve, and would take away your pickup truck and kill your dog. Those who imagine I am exaggerating here have tragically short memories, as this was political canon only a few short years ago. Socialism was far outside the scope of polite discourse.

It has been deliberate policy of capitalist mass media for generations to program this idea of what socialism is into the heads of all Americans. After the close call of the Russian Revolution and the subsequent wave of socialist revolutions worldwide leaving the US as effectively the last bastion of capitalism, and with capitalism barely holding on even there, big business launched desperate efforts to slander and vilify the ideas of socialism and purge those ideas from the consciousness of the American public.

After many, many hundreds of $billions in brainwashing marketing (both overt and embedded in entertainment and infotainment programming) and many more hundreds of $billions in bribes and payoffs to select segments of the workforce, the efforts to tar socialism as the work of Satan largely paid off. Class consciousness was almost entirely eradicated from the America public, and the population was innoculated against the ideas, even reacting violently to anyone merely uttering the word.

To say that the investment of effort and resources to get to this point was a massive undertaking that dwarfed even the Apollo Moon rocket program is a dramatic understatement. Securing a population that can be used as a power base to safeguard capitalism and its empire has been the #1 priority of the elites since the Second World War. This is vitally important to the empire's 0.1%

Sanders' presidential campaigns in 2016 and right now have in only a few years time done severe damage to the firewall that the business elites have painstakingly built between he American public and the ideas that are the only real threat to those elites' power.

Who is so naive as to think the Establishment would deliberately inflict this kind of damage to themselves just to herd a few elderly and dissipated radicals into supporting one of their sham parties? It isn't like there was any real threat of a legitimate political organization forming outside of the DimCRats/Repugs tag team farce back before Sanders launched his campaign in 2015, so why would the elites deliberately execute plans that significantly raise the risk?

No, Sanders is not part of the elites' plans. On the contrary, Sanders' campaign is another example of the elites' plans falling apart at the seams and events spinning out of their control.

This isn't to say that Sanders is our Savior who will fix everything. He's not really even a socialist. While he definitely believes in what he says, he has no ideology to back it up. Assuming he gets elected President, the corporate elites will send their best quants, armed with elaborate PowerPoint presentations and videos and glossy color printouts, to carefully and patiently explain why what Sanders wants cannot happen without wrecking capitalism. Wrecking capitalism is not a step Sanders is prepared to take because he cannot see anything beyond capitalism, so Sanders will abandon his promises exactly as he would have done if he never intended to fullfill them in the first place.

So Sanders cannot save us, but his campaign has openned eyes, and will continue to open eyes. The elites will try desperately to put the masses back to sleep, but that will be impossible so long as Sanders is continuing his fight.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 6 2020 15:25 utc | 216

@169 uncle tungsten

Hello??? Why do you think they're counting paper now??? Because, after 2016, Bernie insisted that there must always be a paper trail to fall back on!

If there were no paper trail, the irregularites found in Iowa with the app that didn't match the manual tabulation done by Bernie's people would have been official results! Bernie's the one who pushed for a paper trail AND insisted they publish the popular vote.

How many times do I have to repeat this???Even the media admit it, why can't you give it a rest already?

He's the one who published the 40% of the precincts manual results showing he was leading then that his team tabulated to stop Buttigieg's sleazy crowing about victory and warn/shame the party into doing things right.

Now, do I wish he were MORE aggressive in calling out their shenanigans? You bet! But just look at the stink they made over Warren's allegation that Bernie told her a woman couldn't win the election and how they virally attacked him by mere association when Tlaib took the mic and rightly booed Clinton publicly for her mean-spirited attacks on Bernie just days and then a day before Iowa??? You think that didn't hurt him and help Buttigieg?

Until Bernie amasses a majority of state delegates, he must try to fly under the radar. They can sink him just with one bad reaction to an orchestrated trap not well handled by him. They'll push his buttons and have secret hot mics on him and who knows what else to take him down?

It's a delicate dance of push and pull until after the nomination. However the more delegates he amasses, the more power he can wield, and that's not to say that he didn't already come into the race with more power than last time, he did, but that's still a power he must exercise wisely and cautiously--FOR NOW.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 6 2020 15:29 utc | 217

Democrats don't have voting rights. They bend over and take whatever the corrupt and totalitarian DNC wants to shove up there.

Posted by: librul | Feb 6 2020 15:39 utc | 218

I can't understand why the Chinese drone videos show the police tell ppl to go home when it is sure the virus is Corona, i.e. not transmissible in the air but through drops (saliva, sweat). Here in the NL no trace of panic. Chinese New Year celebrations were not cancelled and I have seen no one wearing a mask.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 6 2020 15:40 utc | 219

Last night I posted these latest returns from Iowa with 96% precincts reporting and Sanders behind only .1%.

Buttigieg 26.2
Sanders 26.1

Why the hell haven't they come out with the remaining 4% yet??? How damn long does it take to count 4 effing percent⁉️

Posted by: Circe | Feb 6 2020 15:44 utc | 220

@uncle tungsten | 175
I am trying to work out where such views as espoused by In Turkey come from. They are certainly not majority- or even minority-held views in Turkey.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 6 2020 16:34 utc | 221

If Americans are having trouble counting the votes in this 'election', why don't they ask the Chinese to do it?

Not that the result matters.

The only mathematics that matters for the US, is the mathematics of compounding debt, which is only bearable at artificially low interest rates, which however have the side-effect of further crucifying pensions.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 6 2020 16:35 utc | 222

@ 198 really?? thanks for that... i don't properly understand how the usa political system works.. it seems to me saunders is a dem, not an independent running as a dem... so, i don't understand the nuances of that... thanks for articulating that..

Posted by: james | Feb 6 2020 16:52 utc | 223

Ohhh...shit! I just got my answer to my question @221!:

The results released by the Iowa Democratic Party on Wednesday were riddled with inconsistencies and other flaws. According to a New York Times analysis, more than 100 precincts reported results that were internally inconsistent, that were missing data or that were not possible under the complex rules of the Iowa caucuses.

In some cases, vote tallies do not add up. In others, precincts are shown allotting the wrong number of delegates to certain candidates. And in at least a few cases, the Iowa Democratic Party’s reported results do not match those reported by the precincts.

Some of these inconsistencies may prove to be innocuous, and the irregularities do not indicate an intentional effort to compromise or rig the result. There is no apparent bias in favor of the leaders Pete Buttigieg or Bernie Sanders, meaning the overall effect on the winner’s margin may be small.

Latest count of the Iowa caucus results »
But not all of the errors are minor, and they raise questions about whether the public will ever get a completely precise account of the Iowa results. With Sanders closing to within 0.1 percentage points with 97% of 1,765 precincts reporting, the race could easily grow close enough for even the most minor errors to delay a final projection or raise doubts about a declared winner. [DU-UH🙄 There is no doubt who won, anymore, you moron press!]

The errors suggest that many Iowa caucus leaders struggled to follow the rules of their party’s caucuses, or to adopt the additional reporting requirements introduced since 2016. They show that the Iowa Democratic Party, despite the long delays, failed to validate all of the results fully before releasing them to the public.

Mandy McClure, a spokeswoman for the Iowa Democratic Party, said the party reported the data as provided to it by the precinct caucuses.

“The caucus math work sheet is the official report on caucus night to the IDP, and the IDP reports the results as delivered by the precinct chair,” she said, using the initials for the Iowa Democratic Party. “This form must be signed by the caucus chair, the caucus secretary and representatives from each campaign in the room who attest to its accuracy. Under the rules of the delegate selection process, delegates are awarded based off the record of results as provided by each precinct caucus chair.”

Just about every election night includes reporting errors. They can be difficult to identify, but can often be corrected during a recount or a postelection canvass. This year’s Iowa caucuses are the reverse: Errors are now easy to identify, and hard to correct.

The errors are detectable because of changes to the way the Iowa Democratic Party reports its results, put in place after the Sanders campaign criticized the caucus results in 2016. This cycle, and for the first time, the party released three sets of results corresponding to different steps in the caucus process. The rules are complex and thorough, and they create conditions in which the results can be obviously inaccurate or inconsistent within a precinct.

First, caucusgoers express their preference for a candidate upon arrival, and these votes are recorded in a “first alignment.” Then, candidates with limited support at a precinct, usually less than 15%, are deemed not viable; their supporters get a chance to realign to support a viable candidate. The preference at this point is recorded as well, and it’s called the final alignment.

Viable candidates can’t lose support on realignment, but there were more than 10 cases where a viable candidate lost vote share in the final alignment, even though that is precluded by the caucus rules.

[You can read the shit in between where I put ellipses straight from the article if you like. My comments are in these type of brackets.]

The Times is continuing to report the Iowa Democratic caucus results as released by the party and has alerted the party to an extensive list of precinct errors.

There is no reason to believe that Sanders or Buttigieg did materially better in the contaminated precincts than they did elsewhere, [really??? NO SHIT! NO DOUBT SANDERS DID, THAT'S WHY THEY STOPPED COUNTING AT .1 DIFFERENCE, YES???] either overall or controlling for their demographic characteristics. But the tabulated result could be close enough for the remaining ambiguity to preclude a projection of a winner. [You don't saaaay?...HOW CONVENIENT!]

Even if the appropriate candidate is deemed the winner, the irregularities in the results are likely to do little to restore public confidence in the Iowa caucuses.

c.2020 The New York Times Company

iowa caucus results errors


Okay I'm SO ANGRY I had a hard time completing this comment!!!

Here's what they should do: Sanders was .1 % from passing Buttigieg, yes PASSING BECAUSE HE IS 2500 AHEAD IN THE POULAR VOTE SO THERE IS NO TIE HEEEERE!!!


Posted by: Circe | Feb 6 2020 16:53 utc | 224

Okay the link got broken, but is from the Chicago Tribune but the original article is in the NYT.

Go get the article if you like. I'm done for now. I can' even type any more, I'm so disgusted.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 6 2020 16:59 utc | 225

@ juliania | Feb 6 2020 14:48 utc | 208

The Democrats did not lose in 2000 because Green Party members voted for their own candidate, Nader. They lost because 700,000 registered Democrats voted for Bush.

If you bring that up to Demo party dead-enders you will get nothing but silence in response. They simply will not deal with that fact.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 6 2020 17:01 utc | 226

Iowa: pretty obvious that this whole thing is a scam to boost Pete Ballgagg. He is a homosexual and they are the foot-soldiers of the Oligarchs. If it had been paper votes he would have come in 3rd or 4th. Pretty clear that the plan is to push Sanders out the door and leave room for a deus ex-machina trick like bringing in Killary or Big Mike Obama. Democratic infighting is pretty vicious. Not very Democratic. Trump is sitting pretty. He's got 2020 covered unless he does something completely idiotic.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 6 2020 17:04 utc | 227

Boeing 737's and falling apart....somebody suggested No Highway, for whatever reason. Wally proposes >An airplane flick to beat all.

Flug in Gefahr, Die Mutter aller Flugzeugkatastrophenfilme, mit Hanns Lothar, kompletter Film (YT)

Enjoy. Where's ma beer...

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 17:11 utc | 228

No one is buying these Chinese numbers. They aren't real.

The situation in Wuhan is clear: they became overwhelmed and due to no fuel and no public transport and lack of manpower, people ended up isolated at home (martial law). Under these circumstances, the virus spread to family members and neighbors.
Corona has a factor gain of 2-3x on Sars. Sars infects at 2-3 ft and Corona at 6 ft. Vapour can infect via the eyes and possibly the mouth, nose and ears. Research is ongoing.
At least 2 million fled Wuhan due to a 6 day delay in locking the city down. Shanghai, probably Beijing and Guangdong will all spike next week and then they will have to quarantine those cities. Meanwhile, Pirbright Institue has a patent on a coronavirus vaccine since 2015. No one is talking about that.

It is a bioweapon. That is beyond a doubt (see Richard Boyle interview and other sources). It only remains to be seen how virulent it is. That will only come with time;the next 2-3 months is critical. Real numbers would help but it is clear that ship has sailed.
The MSM has lied about this from the beginning and that isn't likely to stop.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 6 2020 17:17 utc | 229

With Respect to Russian, China and the Corona virus

Let us look at the Corona virus situation logically.

First of all, let us look at what we know the US War Department has done with respect to Russia. We know that the US has established biowarfare labs in countries along Russia's borders. We know that the US has issued public requests for samples of DNA from ethnic Russians. So we know what the US War Department has in mind for at least one of the USA's designated enemies.

Now, with respect to China; we know that the Corona virus did not pop up in some backwater village. It appeared in Wuhan, a major economic center and a major crossing point for national, commercial transportation systems like air and rail.

Additionally, we know that the virus targets specific receptors inside a specific type of cell that is found only in the lungs of Asian males.

It seems to me that there are only two logical conclusions; based on the things that we know, either

a) the US War Department is testing a biowarfare agent that it intends to use against China, or

b) the US War Department is putting China on notice that the US can destroy China's economy any time that it wants to.

Or both.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 6 2020 17:25 utc | 230

Posted by: dorje | Feb 6 2020 17:17 utc | 229

Been tracking you continue bad mouth and slander China since you first show up MoA. Have a heart they are suffering trying their best to help everyone.... 2 hospitals 2,600 beds within 10-12 days plus 2 more converted from bldgs and now another 6 more planned!

Their hands are full, plus fighting evils empire trade wars, Xingjiang, HK, sanctions etc.... bad mouth China aren't gonna help!

Posted by: JC | Feb 6 2020 17:35 utc | 231

So apparently, its about 30 days to die.
So death toll lags illness by about 30 days.
B said reported cases were leveling, but this was preceeded by impressive spike.
The problem would be that epidemic tends to be under reported because of lag and because it represents something like failure by government.
So it will always be worse than what is reported, I suspect.

Posted by: jared | Feb 6 2020 17:38 utc | 232

I have no idea if the claim is true, VICE says> "The Chinese Doctor Who Tried to Warn the World About Coronavirus Has Died
Li Wenliang noticed seven patients with SARS-like symptoms in December and tried to warn the world about it but was silenced by..."

Yeah. Maybe so. Maybe not so.


Weapon or not, and whatever the source and whatever games played, the CV is liable to be seen as a weapon and an attack, is it not? And if China sees CV as an attack, well, they have memory, and means...

Wally imagined that the US bio cops shop made a Chinese spy- and let him swipe the CV

And sent a fella to open the jar just outside the BSL4 gate in China about 10 minutes after the Chinese spy brought the swag.

That way the victim blames himself. It's the Old Army Game, the Con.

But, well, maybe just a fubar....

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 17:47 utc | 233

I hope this becomes more than a trickle. Assange needs a flood of support:

Former German Ministers Launch Appeal for Assange’s Release

BERLIN (Sputnik) - A petition published on has been signed by ex-foreign minister Sigmar Gabriel, former interior chief Gerhard Baum and former justice minister Katarina Barley. The number of signatories neared 400 at the time of writing.

Over 130 German ex-ministers, lawmakers, journalists and cultural figures launched a campaign on Thursday to pressure the United Kingdom into freeing WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

"We urge the United Kingdom… to release Julian Assange from custody immediately so that he can recover under expert medical supervision and exercise his fundamental rights without hindrance", it reads.

Baum said during a press conference held in Berlin to announce the petition that it had been signed by socialists, greens, liberals and the left-wing but only one member from the ruling conservative party. An appeal was also made for the German government to join the pressure campaign.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 6 2020 18:26 utc | 234

#234 InTurkey
Good gone, mate! Hope you feel better now.

It only strikes me that I've read several warnings, Erdogan has sent to Putin.
Why that then?

Posted by: Paleene | Feb 6 2020 18:30 utc | 235

In Turkey | Feb 6 2020 17:58 utc | 234

Thanks! Nice to see assumptions verified. This is the original sound track of Turkish alt right! Thanks in addition that you could manage it this time without "the Jews". The education failure of the Turkish alt right makes it possible to forget that quite some "Turks" are Jews. ;-)No necessity to repeat the links you dropped here yesterday. And why this hatred against the CIA, the big friend of the Turkish right since long?

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 6 2020 18:33 utc | 236

Jeff's left a note>

ex vita discedo, tanquam ex hospitio, non tanquam ex domo

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 14:56 utc | 210

And also I would say:

"Quousque tamdem abutere, Israel, Patientia Nostra?" (Israelinaria, Marcus Tullius Cicero)

Posted by: DFC | Feb 6 2020 18:38 utc | 237

Wally imagined that the US bio cops shop made a Chinese spy- and let him swipe the CV

And sent a fella to open the jar just outside the BSL4 gate in China about 10 minutes after the Chinese spy brought the swag.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 17:47 utc | 233

The 2019-nCoV seems to hit men, asian people harder:

May be Wally is not dead wrong

Posted by: DFC | Feb 6 2020 18:49 utc | 238

@S #191
Normal flu mortality is 4.3 per 100,000
Wuhan is a city of 11.5 million people.
Even if the 2 week mortality is 400 - it isn't at all clear to me that the situation is extremely abnormal.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 6 2020 18:51 utc | 239

Medical question of the day:
Newborn becomes youngest person diagnosed with coronavirus

A Chinese newborn has been diagnosed with the new coronavirus just 30 hours after birth, the youngest case recorded so far, state media said.
The baby was born on 2 February in Wuhan, the epicentre of the virus.
The baby's mother tested positive before she gave birth. It is unclear how the disease was transmitted - in the womb, or after birth.
Only a handful of children have come down with the virus, which has killed 565 people and infected 28,018.
All but one of the deaths were in China.[.]

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 6 2020 18:54 utc | 240

@Hugo Jansen #173
First of all, even without the quarantines/travel restrictions - "all" of China was never going get catch nCOV.
Secondly, 88% of deaths are people over 60 with existing health problems - serious ones like diabetes.
I strongly recommend to stop reading sensationalist articles.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 6 2020 18:54 utc | 241

@ vk

>> You can be middle class; just don't be a sucker by acting like a cheap ideologue/priest on the internet.

You *ruined* my plan for this evening. ;-)

Posted by: oglalla | Feb 6 2020 18:56 utc | 242

@jared #232
The spike is at least in part because Chinese authorities developed an nCOV test in mid-January and went back to retest and reclassify pneumonia patients.
The real key is if the quarantine/travel shutdowns have been enforced - if so, that will affect spread for sure.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 6 2020 18:58 utc | 243

@ DFC > sapiens es, Dude!

In crooked game is fundamental that the mark blames himself, otherwise it gets nasty.

One long summer spent on a travelin' show, not kidding, Wobblies and all. Long ago and gone to dust, but I smell a con in the CV affair. Those old carnie taught Wally some stuff. Nice people, without illusions about class and circumstance, kind, and tough. No wonder they're thought dangerous. They are (or were), alas.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 19:21 utc | 244

WHO update/press conference re: coronavirus:

Source and "natural reservoir" still unknown.

Dr. Mike Ryan almost openly scoffs at idea that China hid anything; Dr. Tedros is a bit more polite in explaining why WHO doesn't believe that.

Posted by: Zee | Feb 6 2020 19:43 utc | 245

@DFC #239
The “new” study is a reanalysis of the “old” study which has exactly 1 deceased Asian man (out of 5 total).
That study is interesting but utterly worthless because the sample size is so tiny.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 6 2020 19:53 utc | 246

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 6 2020 15:25 utc | 216

Careful William, if you continue posting convincing and authentic comments like this about Sanders you're gonna make Russell have a conniption.

Posted by: information_agent | Feb 6 2020 20:22 utc | 247

So now, because they don't like the Iowa results, they are going to launch a do over.

What does this tell one about the power and control at work here? This is a good educational opportunity for the younger generations.....follow the money.

Socialism is being portrayed as bad when it is the definition of government that is not the dictatorship we currently live under with global private finance running the debt control show. The big lie keeps working to not have society discuss the social contract dictatorship of finance they are born into and never talk about directly....where does the "faith" come from to make it work that way? I have always assumed it was a carry over of monotheism.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 6 2020 21:09 utc | 248

They launch a recount just as Sanders is about to pass Buttigieg in the count.

Posted by: lysias | Feb 6 2020 21:55 utc | 249

They launch a recount just as Sanders is about to pass Buttigieg in the count.

Posted by: lysias | Feb 6 2020 21:55 utc | 250

From Jim Stone
"I finally got the real tally on Iowa, via a source I am not going to reveal. Bernie got 51 percent of the total vote, and Mayor Pete got 8 percent. Warren got 31 percent. If they stole it that badly away from Bernie, they'll do the same with Trump."

Posted by: frances | Feb 6 2020 22:01 utc | 251

 vk | Feb 6 2020 12:02 utc | 177

I noticed most commenters here in this blog a are middle classers from First World countries. Here's my advice for you: ideology is a fabrication of the middle class. The rich don't need it because they can do whatever they please; the poor don't need it because they have nothing to lose.
You can be middle class; just don't be a sucker by acting like a cheap ideologue/priest on the internet.

Yes. You are no doubt right. It is almost inevitable, because the working poor have very little time for surfing the internet and the people in second and third world countries have probably less money for computers and less fluency in English. As to your statement that the “The rich don't need it because they can do whatever they please;” I have had very limited personal experience of the very rich but those I have met never struck me as lacking ideology! & certainly, Trump, Soros, Michael O'Leary, Lord Levy, the Clintons, the Koch Bros are hardly anaideological!

Posted by: foolisholdman | Feb 6 2020 22:10 utc | 252

a post from zerohedge
"How the hell do you re-canvass a caucus? There are no ballots at a caucus. There is only a count of a show of hands or group of people under a banner, and that count is put on a piece of paper. Then that count is transmitted to the state election board. How hard can it be?

I am from Iowa and went to repug caucuses and there was NEVER anything like this fuckup. And in this case, on election night it wasn't about the count anyway, it was just they couldn't TRANSMIT the count because the stupid App didn't work. Now they don't have the count?"

Posted by: frances | Feb 6 2020 22:29 utc | 253

donkeytale | Feb 6 2020 12:38 utc | 181
V.I. Lenin “Left-wing Communism, an infantile Disorder.” You object that
VK, VR and karlof1 (perhaps to a lesser extent but maybe not) present a hagiographical reductionist form of Marx's historical dialectical process of the stages of capitalism giving way to socialism in some future China.
What they fail to connect from Marx and Lenin is the role of class struggle by the working classes to achieve ultimate supremacy over the bourgeois.
Here they present a dreamworldly China marching surehandedly to the socialist phase through a bloodless, classless construct of a benevolent communist hierarchy. Class struggle, what class struggle?

Maybe they don't think they need to add to the chorus of voices slagging off China? Certain it is that there is class struggle going on in China, not much reported on, it's true but quite fierce at times. Presumably you would rather the CCP just abandoned its leading role and left thing to work themselves out? No doubt, the creatures in Washington would like that too!

Posted by: foolisholdman | Feb 6 2020 22:35 utc | 254

William Gruff #216

Thank you William Gruff, I don’t believe that Bernie Sanders is a willing tool of the establishment and I absolutely support his incessant advocacy for a democratic socialist alternative for the USA. But his response in the face of the Iowa debacle is deeply disturbing. Does his pledge include his silence no matter what rort they perpetrate?

Sanders victory in demolishing and nullifying the immense anti socialist propaganda and “deliberate policy of capitalist mass media for generations to program this idea of what socialism is into the heads of all Americans” is astonishing. Obviously neither they or their followers are out to “wreck capitalism” that is just establishment nonsense.

Bernie has succeeded and I salut him and his teams for that achievement. I do not see him as some stooge of the elite rather as the anathema to the elite. But the perverted USA electoral system is equally a tool of the elite and that too needs to be radically challenged. Not to overthrow it but to remove the disgraceful barriers installed to maintain the elite.

Iowa has confirmed the mendacity and tenacity of the elite Dems to stop at nothing to maintain their mirage and control. My immediate criticism is that at this time Bernie Sanders (and Tulsi Gabbard) need to strenuously advocate for FAIRNESS and the eradication of election rigging. Otherwise opportunist shits like Buttigieg will steal their effort and momentum as just happened.

Bernie and Tuslie have built their campaign on the premise of integrity and honesty and compassion and their supporters and followers have invested heavily in that framework for a better future. It would be a gross self sabotage and movement sabotage if they are supine in the face of overt dishonest rigged election processes. The Dems will stop at nothing, not just in Iowa. They are rigging the California process by silence They are not helping voters there by offering “crossover” ballots. They are forbidden to use that term in their discussions. The DNC machine is actively doing everything to frustrate, disempower, disenfranchise people who desperately want change.

Leaders who are silent or weak when taking people into these circumstances are not changemakers. They are disempower agents. They are in company with the system at the key fulcrum for change either by will or by accident.
My expectation is that they will call the Dem machine out incessantly from now on, they will speak loudly, louder than ever before, against the perpetrators of rigged elections as well as their policy agenda. I trust they will take the gloves off in many ways to defend the hopes and momentum for change that they have generated.

Yes, Sanders cannot save US but he can destroy the trust and so condemn US to more decades of poverty, purgatory and warfare. If he lacks the capacity or courage to stand up to these thugs now then how will he deal with the lies from “the corporate elites will send their best quants, armed with elaborate PowerPoint presentations and videos and glossy color printouts, to carefully and patiently explain why what Sanders wants cannot happen without wrecking capitalism.”

The answer is simple but it takes a warrior to speak it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 6 2020 22:58 utc | 255

Posted by: James McCumiskey | Feb 5 2020 17:00 utc | 5

research Dr Lanka and Dr Hamer.

I'm not sure about this. I researched the work of Dr. Hamer, and in my view he is one of the most relevant physicians to date. There was a thriving movement around his discovery, but it somehow stopped around 2010. In the event of the 'new coronavirus' I tried to revisit the bookmarks I saved when I was into that movement myself, but I see that they are all gone or out of date. I remember discussions about SARS in New Medicine forums, but they didn't provide much useful explanations. Then I quit that scene.

While Dr. Hamer revealed the nature of how an illness takes place, the different phases (impact/conflict, healing phase/pain, and recovery), which is of course only a very short abstract of his research, there is not so much to find about explanations of epidemic and pandemic phenomenon. One can find a rather short explanation about the Spanish flu. I suspect, that after the recent outbreaks of diseases, the New Medicine scene stopped proposing their ideas because they felt that they can't explain things properly. For a scientist this means, back to the laboratory, to research further.

Concerning the genius of medicine, Dr. Hamer, I don't expect much more from him. He has done his work. He will be lauded in future like a Galileo Galilei, the one who was too advanced for the world to understand. Unfortunately, Dr. Hamer appears to have gone mad, for various reasons I won't get into here. But despite this sad fate, his research is probably the most precious revelation in medicine we know (or don't). Well, the knowledge is available. Recommended for all who want to know more about the real nature of illnesses and disease. But it is just that. More knowledge about disease. Not more knowledge about curing diseases. This is a different topic, but knowledge about the root of the problem is a good starting point. All else is just a fight against symptoms.

But back to the viruses. A bacteria is a definition we have determined. A fungus is a definition we have determined. A virus is a definition we have determined. What do we really know about microbial life and purpose, its function? Here shines the work of Dr. Hamer, as he relates every microbe to its special purpose, biologically and evolutionary. In other words, every organ in our body has evolved in time, and every microbe has evolved in time accordingly. Everything fits together. And when there's a conflict, they all work together, organs and microbes. In animals there are only rarely cancers. In humans there are more cancers. Because humans tend to repeat their programmed fears, while animals more easily let go. In confinement, animals express more often cancer, in confinement they live in constant fear of survival.

It is very much worthwhile to spend a week or month to study the works of Dr. Hamer. He was the first to continue the works of Paracelsus and Pasteur. There is a legend, that Pasteur himself said, that it is the environment, not the bacteria.

So what is first? The bacteria, or the environment? The virus, or the environment? What use is it for the virus to kill the host when it can't replicate for long time? I think these are questions we have to ask. Of course, we won't get quick answers, as this is something mankind has been asking for a very long time. We won't get the answer, but we should be asking the right question, instead of just believing.

Asking the right question is a good way. It is the way for the right answer.

Posted by: Phil | Feb 6 2020 23:10 utc | 256

Comrade Kirk Douglas "Espartaco", has passed away, some resemblance by the comrades in Twitter..On the importance to fight when others hide...and who are the ones who always do it...

The chess player
Kirk Douglas has passed away. I share with you, in his honor, this fragment of 'Spartacus'. Never has the seventh art portrayed class solidarity in such a beautiful and heartbreaking way. "I am Spartacus!"

@ springsteen_81 Kirk Douglas had a decisive role in ending the Witch Hunt in Hollywood. Where others hid, he fought, and won.

@carlosmartinezr Kirk Douglas ended the veto on Dalton Trumbo. After suffering imprisonment and exile, Trumbo returned to the USA but was not hired until Kirk commissioned the screenplay for "Spartacus". A movie that I will never tire of admiring.

Dalton Trumbo, that pacifist red who wrote Spartacus

"My greatest achievement was to help end the blacklists, a shameful period in American history." -Kirk Douglas. S.T.T.L.

Posted by: Sasha | Feb 6 2020 23:10 utc | 257

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 6 2020 6:53 utc | 147

I'm not surprised that they are corrupting "false flag" to make it something innocuous. They are doing the same to "Deep State", which obviously means a permanent, hidden and powerful group that essentially runs the govt, sets its goals, etc. They are now using "Deep State" to mean merely high-level federal employees who are holdovers from previous administrations.


Posted by: Penelope | Feb 6 2020 23:13 utc | 258

This is an interesting update on the shootdown of PS752 which also (if one is prepared to think tangentially) provides input into the debate ranging between donkeytale, VK and others, as well as the election debate (how on earth would Sanders or Gabbard really be able [allowed] to change things?)

PS-752 and MH-17 - UPDATE and NEW INFO

For myself, I think that time has run out and that there will be war (against Iran) within 2 to 4 years and no politician will be allowed to prevent this. It is a war that the US will lose because it is a trap (the US will be led to believe that Russia and China are less supportive of Iran and they will turn out to be) and we (soft-westerners that we are) will lose a great deal.

Posted by: ADKC | Feb 6 2020 23:15 utc | 259

Meanwhile...Today, in "This in Germany does not happen ..."...

Ernest Urtasun @ernesturtasun Very serious! For the first time in Germany the sanitary cord is broken against the extreme right. In Turíngia the red-green government falls because <>CDU and liberals have accepted the votes of the AFD to place a new liberal prime minister in the Land.

@juan_reboso The far right is advancing dangerously under the protection of the right

Posted by: Sasha | Feb 6 2020 23:18 utc | 260

Posted by: Pft | Feb 6 2020 12:08 utc | 178

Thanks for an intelligent comment. Green fascism, yes. There's a wonderful Senate report documenting how a group of billionaires run the environmental orgs from the top.

If only people wd take just one of the "facts" in support of the global warming hoax, and look for the other side's refutation of the "fact". But mostly people become emotional, defensive, and unable to consider counter-arguments.

It's considered a great virtue to "stick to your convictions" (conclusions). The real virtue is in the rigor with which you examine the data that lead to those convictions.

When were you in China & what were you doing? Were you a philosophy major? Haven't heard anyone speak of the Hegelian Dialectic (and synthesis) in years.

Posted by: Penelope | Feb 6 2020 23:38 utc | 261

one more thing about viruses:

in nature, there is mostly symbiotic life. Every life form adapts to the environment. It can be a host, a living organism, but it cannot kill the host. Otherwise it cannot reproduce. This applies to every life form, including the so-called viruses.

It is therefore a false assumption that there are 'viruses' that kill without sense, without purpose. The very idea of viruses originate from our fears and lack of knowledge. Similar to bacteria. Before we knew of microbes, we didn't care. When we learned about bacteria, we were afraid. Bad bacteria. Then we learned that our digestive system was full of bacteria, that the soil we plant our food is full of bacteria. We never really recovered from this first shock, and reluctantly learned that bacteria are alright. Then we got the so-called viruses. Which we never were able to exactly determine. But they are there in our consciousness. They are entirely evil. They just kill without purpose. Without sense. Because it will kill themselves.

But, of course, there are regulatory processes in nature. When something is old, dead, it will be consumed and deteriorated. So when something like that happens, we must ask: what has triggered this deterioration process?

Posted by: Phil | Feb 6 2020 23:40 utc | 262

I present you the Land of the Free:

White Supremacy, Racism Rising Among Ranks of US Military - Poll

“Have you personally witnessed examples of white nationalism or racism within the ranks of the military?” The Military Times asked active-duty readers in a survey conducted between October 23, 2019, and December 2, 2019.

Of the 1,630 subscribers who responded to the poll, 36% reported that they had indeed observed racist or white nationalist behavior in the US military. This presents a sharp uptick when compared to the outlet’s 2018 study, which only had a 22% affirmative response rate for the same question.

Examples of such conduct include the scrawling of swastikas on military equipment, tattoos showing one’s affiliation with a white supremacist group, the placement of stickers supporting the Ku Klux Klan and Nazi-style salute greetings between troops.

As with the decaying Roman Empire, in the USA the legionaries are also becoming the barbarians.

Posted by: vk | Feb 6 2020 23:58 utc | 263

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 6 2020 11:18 utc | 171

The military games you mention were one day after

"While many alt-media outlets have fingered Event 201 as the replica “drill” that so often coincides with a false flag event, few are aware that on the day after that simulation, the 2019 Military World Games kicked off in Wuhan, bringing 300 US military personnel to the city."

Posted by: Penelope | Feb 7 2020 0:00 utc | 264

@Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 6 2020 15:25 utc | 216

You seem to better get my point.
The thing is there are a very different people in political formations, and those wanting to grab power and advance other ideas most of the time have not but to recurr to the big parties since these are those with the infrastructure to get high...

What it is needed to be built behind Sanders is a Civic Front core which will continue fighting even in the case Sanders would win the presidency, so as to keep reminding him what his campaign´s platform points and promises were once the PTB start twisting his arms to make the same policy of always, especially at foreign level.

If the people would had not conformed to vote and come back home to simply watch TV and keep complaining when Obama failed to comply with his promises and would had come into the streets to protest, may be, we would be living in a different world.


The chess player @elajedrecista_ "The winner in politics, as in chess, is always who makes the play following the last mistake."

Posted by: Sasha | Feb 7 2020 0:03 utc | 265

Posted by: Pft | Feb 6 2020 12:08 utc | 178

Thanks for an intelligent comment. Green fascism, yes. There's a wonderful Senate report documenting how a group of billionaires run the environmental orgs from the top.

If only people wd take just one of the "facts" in support of the global warming hoax, and look for the other side's refutation of the "fact". But mostly people become emotional, defensive, and unable to consider counter-arguments.

It's considered a great virtue to "stick to your convictions" (conclusions). The real virtue is in the rigor with which you examine the data that lead to those convictions.

When were you in China & what were you doing? Were you a philosophy major? Haven't heard anyone speak of the Hegelian Dialectic (and synthesis) in years.

Posted by: Penelope | Feb 7 2020 0:03 utc | 266

vk #186

China wasn't given on a silver plate to the Communists. They had to fight for it.

Pompeo has just made another speech calling the CCP "the greatest threat of our times". Bannon, in 2017 (when Trump took office), stated he "wasn't against the Chinese people, but against the CCP". China officially calls themselves socialists; the congresses of the CCP systematically reinforce their Marxist nature. And all of this is not just rhetoric: China's economic system is indeed very different from the capitalist one. They've lifted more than 500 million people from poverty - just look to the dismal state of India if you want to compare.

Your middle class, provincian pedantry may not consider China socialist, but the global capitalist elites certainly do.

Thank you vk PRECISELY THAT !

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 7 2020 0:49 utc | 267

Is anyone aware of any development in Iraq since the US indicated its refusal to leave quietly?

Strange that this situation seems completely off the radar.

Posted by: augrr | Feb 7 2020 0:58 utc | 268

frances #253

From what I read in an earlier post, after the first count those people supporting candidates with less than the threshold (15% ?) are then able to relocate to the candidate of second choice that achieved greater than 15% at the first count. Then the tally is made as the final preferred candidate list. Correct me if I have that wrong.

So if Biden did not get to the threshold and all his voters went to 'Pete the cheat' THAT might (??) explain the meteoric difference between polls and the fabricated reality that DNC is perambulating about Alice's garden party.

Is there any one out there that can explain this better that my attempt?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 7 2020 1:03 utc | 269

reply to uncle tungsten 269
Thank you, I wasn't aware of that.

Posted by: frances | Feb 7 2020 1:42 utc | 270

@216 I largely agree with your post. I would add a pinch more optimism when it comes to Bernie and his staff in Washington. If nothing else he will expose more of the rot inside and he will vocalize more platform objectives. One case will be economist Michael Hudson on staff. There will be others who have fallen behind curtains, condemned for this reason or that. It will be exciting to watch it unfold even if the advances are incremental and small.

Posted by: linda amick | Feb 7 2020 2:01 utc | 271

vk #186

“China wasn't given on a silver plate to the Communists. They had to fight for it.”

Using Soviet Weapons made possible with US aid during WWII while the US cut off aid to the KMT.

And lets not forget, the Chinese Communists fought against Chinese, much like the Bolsheviks fought and killed many Russians to assume power during a time the country was at war. Neither were popular revolutions

Both the FSU and China depended on Western technology and trade. FDR was kind enough to recognize Uncle Joe and then make him a war time ally after he invaded Poland and Finland, despite the millions of deaths his policies caused in the Ukraine. Wall St money funded Lenin and Tolstoy. China and Mao were bailed out by Nixon, and then continuous MFN allowed China to build its economy. No sanctions for China unlike Cuba and other developing socialist economies. Sanctions against the FSU occurred only after their industrialization was completed, and even then loopholes and agents within government and industry covertly assisted their continued technological development as Sutton exposed

I consider the FSU and PRC were testing grounds for the Western Elite. Communism fell out of favor though, although totalitarian control did not. State owned capitalism has simply been replaced by controllers of state owned capitalism(by corporate or party elite), which is another word for neoliberalism.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 7 2020 2:12 utc | 272

FOR the uninitiated, FUKUS = fuck UK, US.

Cai Ying Wen, [[[fukus]]] bitch in [[[TW]]], fall over herself to help in Aussie bush fire fight, rushing off 100000 face masks to [[[OZ]]] .

Now that China is attacked by a fukus bioweapon, the bitch order an embargo of face mask to mainland.
What a cunt. !

OTOH, Wuhan's sister city in Jp sent in loads of masks with the label 武汉加油. !

Even tho [[[Jp]]] is on side with [[[the family]]], there'r some who empathise with China cuz they'r witnessing a re-run of how fukus did to them.

'Many Chinese today may hate the Japanese, but they also know that America is doing to them today what America did to Japan before the Pearl Harbor attack.

They may hate to openly admit this, but America is slowly trying to put a chokehold on China's oil supplies by conquering Iraq, Libya, South Sudan and, soon, Iran.

America is already stirring up trouble in South China Sea.

By [embargoes and other economic sanctions], including oil-supply chokeholds, America has consistently been at the forefront of provoking and promoting war. After all these years, I wonder what underlying philosophy drives this war-loving culture.'">">

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 2:44 utc | 273

shit, I forget archive links doesnt work.

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 2:46 utc | 274

@ denk | Feb 7 2020 2:44 utc | 273

"FOR the uninitiated, FUKUS = fuck UK, US"

Actually, FUKUS stands for France, United Kingdom and the United States

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 7 2020 2:59 utc | 275

I see Mr. Lavrov has kicked someone's 1823 Monroe Doctrine ball quite hard today.

Posted by: UnionHorse | Feb 7 2020 3:04 utc | 276

Gruff @216:

Before the 2016 election was it possible to ever hear the word "socialism" in American corporate mass media except where it was being scornfully denigrated?

Sanders didn't enter the race to push "socialism", he entered the race to sheepdog discontented/disillusioned progressives and young idealists into the Democratic Party. Sanders 'flock' already had "socialist" notions of economic fairness.

Establishment media initially attacked progressive solutions for inequality as "socialist" then accepted a somewhat positive use of the term only in relation to Democratic Party sheepdogs ("socialism" is still a pejorative on the right). Bernie's and Warren's "socialism" is still viewed as a radical solution that can be talked about only when contextualized as raising issues of fairness that Democratic Party nips and tucks can beautify (every Democratic Candidate now offers a plan for economic fairness).

The game here is transparent. The Democratic Party wants to co-opt "socialism" just as it has co-opted "progressive". To do so, they engage in deceptive Public Relations meant to channel, shape, and ultimately defuse or delay the underlying discontent that IMHO can largely be traced to the establishment's EMPIRE FIRST orientation.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 7 2020 3:30 utc | 277


You guys left out the "i" as in iFUKUS. I'm sure everyone here knows what the "i" represent.

Posted by: Ian2 | Feb 7 2020 3:48 utc | 278

AntiSpin 275

Hugo's letter on Yuan MIng Yuan
'"Two robbers breaking into a museum, devastating, looting and burning, leaving laughing hand-in-hand with their bags full of treasures; one of the robbers is called France and the other Britain."
We Europeans are the civilized ones, and for us the Chinese are the barbarians. This is what civilization has done to barbarism'

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 4:01 utc | 279

Ian2 278

[Deb is dead] used FUKUS in his post years ago, I liked it instantly and have been
plagiarizing it ever since.

Its very intuitive,
fuck uk, us cuz these are the ring leaders.

Its also very versatile, in LIbya,
its a FUKUS [fuck FRANCE, UK, US] joint op,

In Asia, its
in ME, ITS FUKUSI[srael]..

etc etc...

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 4:11 utc | 280

VK - yes there is no question China was communist.

It is not any longer. Your history lesson is well known and accurate.

Your current analysis is inaccurate. Sorry, it is obvious to anyone who isn't invested in falsehoods.

Capitalism lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty since the 19th Century in many places, including the US, Europe, Japan, South Korea and China.

China today is not a communist country much less a socialist country. China is a capitalist/imperialist country practicing a form of globalisation.

You may believe this is pedantry and that is fine. I believe people who persist in pushing falsehoods are delusional or dishonest, and often pedantic as well.

I'm middle class. Who cares. Yet you extol the rise of a middle class in China while denying it is a middle class. Laughable.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 7 2020 5:14 utc | 281

Foolisholdman @ 254

You mistake my criticism of these posters' blithe promotion of capitalist/imperialist China as a criticism of China. It is nothing of the sort. I believe the people and cultures of China adds much to our world. However, lets face the truth and lets especially not pin our hopes for own western salvation where that hope is entirely misplaced.

The solution to the growing extreme wealth inequality and growing fascism existent in all of the US, Europe, South America (including Brazil where VK sits and types her daily odes!) cannot be understood much less redressed by merely choosing sides and cheering one versus the other, especially as the same conditions of growing wealth inequality and fascism exist in present day China too.

Especially when the fact is that far from being enemies (Pompeo and Trump are aberrations playing political games for their electoral base not seriously threatening China), the ruling bourgeois elites of China and the US and Europe are precisely the problem which requires redress...and are interwined in growing their share of the world's wealth ever more heinously. And I'm not even going into the environmental destruction wrought by relentless neoliberalism

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 7 2020 5:35 utc | 282

augrr @ 268

Sadr supporters take iconic Tahrir Square building


Protesters in Iraq fear their movement is being taken over, just like the Turkish restaurant was.

Anti-government protesters in Baghdad's Tahrir Square are mourning their loss of control over the "Turkish restaurant"
building, which had provided them with a vantage point over the demonstrations in the square below.

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 7 2020 5:58 utc | 283

the israelis overseeing these actions are completely insane... it is like a lunatic running their military branch...

Israeli airstrikes on Damascus suburbs put at risk civilian flight with 172 passengers on board – Russian MoD

Posted by: james | Feb 7 2020 6:31 utc | 284

Gruff @65

Great comment. Sadly that’s the way we are trained to see the “others”... as cartoons. Such as life is depicted in North Korea or Iran or in Russia. Unfortunately it works all too well - a con so big people will cheer killing these 2d people in an effort to “save” them.

Posted by: OHH | Feb 7 2020 6:52 utc | 285

pogohere @ 283

Thank you for that link, although it leaves one guessing which way things are evolving.

Posted by: augrr | Feb 7 2020 7:35 utc | 286

S #196

Its a hoax

Noted and thank you.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 7 2020 8:49 utc | 287

To recap...
A timeline,
William Cohen warned about 'OTHERS using race specific bioweapons' against the 'free' world.

PNAC highlighted in its 'to do list',
'Race specific bioweapon which can transform it from the arena of terrorism into a useful political tool'

Many top microbiologists specialising in 'gene manipulation and DNA sequecing' were suicided or murdered

SARS hit mainland China, HK, Singapore, TW, SEA Chinese communities, worldwide casualties exclusively Chinese !!!

Chinese lawyer Tong Zeng recalled FUKUS and Jp collecting large samples of Chinese DNA during the 90's, ostensibly for research.

NIH sponsored scientist Ron Fouchier wanna publicize how to DIY weaponising H5N1

Hillary warned about 'danger of genetic bioweapons attack from AQ' [SIC]

CDC insiders predicted a pandemic crisis in the next year,

'Gerstein made an alarming prediction during his presentation, stating that “we expect a pandemic by the end of 2013.” One must wonder how Gerstein could possibly pinpoint a timeline for a pandemic, which is generally seen to be the result of unpredictable microscopic events. Unless, perhaps, he has a hand in creating one.'

China hit by H5N1 bird flu,

NIH sponsored scientist Ron Fouchier publicised enhanced method of weaponising H5N1

Jun 2017

murkkan Scientists publicized their research on ...
weaponising H7N9

How To Kill A Whole Lot Of People: Scripps Scientists Publish How They Made H7N9 Virus More Transmissible

The scientists themselves who were conducting the specific research on how they made H7N9 virus increase its rate of human transmissions are already publicizing it.

More than that, they are also studying specific strains from different locations on Earth, so that a gene, or race, specific attack can be made possible.

The viruses being experimented upon “have been collected in at least 28 countries in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, and Asia.”

China hit by H7N9
almost wiping off its poultry industry.

China hit by swine flu,
Pig farms nation wide were sprayed with swine flu virus by armies of professionally modified drones. !

China forced to buy pork from US again !

2020 jAN
Bill Gates warned about 'global pandemic'.

2020 Feb,
China hit by SARS2, AND H5N1

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 10:09 utc | 288

@ Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 7 2020 5:14 utc | 281

The problem here is that the opinion of the middle classes doesn't matter in real life. The social role of the middle class is to serve as mouth pieces of the capitalist class in order to form public opinion, i.e. to serve as a bridge between the capitalist and working classes. They are professional ideologues, clerics - what the American far-right calls "the experts".

China is a socialist country (not communist - that's only the name of the party). There's a lot of evidence it is socialist (in the scientific sense, not the ideological one) and they consider themselves, officially and not, as socialist, so there's absolutely no reason not to consider them as such.

In my opinion, this "China is also imperialist, we should form a new communist international to fight everybody together" and "China is actually capitalist, and it was capitalism, and not socialism, which lifted China from poverty" are two sides of the same coin, in the sense it is a late attempt of the West to try to recover world stage protagonism by building a narrative where they are still in the vanguard.

I'm not against these type of narratives per se. The problem is that the numbers tell the exact opposite: that China is ascending and that the West is in decline. And that this trend won't stop for the forseeable future. They are dellusional, Vegetian literature at best.

Poverty has been growing in the capitalist world. The only reason the UN is being able to show charts with falling worldwide poverty in the world is because of China. Exclude China, and poverty has diminished very slightly (in an almost zero rate) in India and has risen in the rest - including the so-called First World countries. If your hypothesis was correct, than poverty would've been continuing to fall linearly in the capitalist world, as capitalism continues to exist there by definition.

Everybody has the right to have a personal opinion about anything, no matter how absurd they are. That's why we have science and its numbers.

Posted by: vk | Feb 7 2020 11:43 utc | 289

Two top Sadrist commanders killed in 24 hours in Iraq

Rest assure it is Israel/US behnd these killings, but the iraqi PM want to work with the americans that are kept inside Iraq.
Israelis are laughing good at the iraqi naivety.

Posted by: Zanon | Feb 7 2020 12:14 utc | 290

@Hausmeister | 166
Look mate, you are conflating and confising many ideas and then attributing them to 30% of the Turkish population. It’s comical.
Having said that Turanism, or New Turanism, is an interesting phenomenon. But while Bahceli plays to the ideology not all MHP are Turanists and not all Turanists are MHP. Nor does Turanism have any political significance beyond Turkey’s near abroad where it has been used in an attempt to legitimise dodgy ethnic claims in Northern Syria and Northern Iraq thereby legitimising Turkish inteference and at the same time undermining Kurdish claims. (in reality the ‘Turkmen’ populations are actually Turkish (from Turkey originally), long time native Turkics (small number) or newly imported by Turkey Turkic peoples.) and TUrkey conflates them all as 'Turkish' because it does not linguistically differentiate between Turkish and Turkic - Orwell would be proud))

As for “disaffected Islamists”, I can only assume you are talking about Saadet, remaining/ Ex-Gulenists and unhappy AKP members. These are most likely to be swept up in Davutoglu’s new party – if he gets his act together he could have a decent chance of splitting the AKP vote which would change the political landscape and further undermine Erdogan’s strangle-hold. But I don’t see him naming or promoting Turanism – even though the ideology was clearly a part of his New Ottoman plans in N Syria and N Iraq, it was never named as such and could not be, politically.
As for other comments made by (Can’t Possibly Be) “In Turkey” - bollocks, frankly.

Posted by: Egor68500 | Feb 7 2020 13:33 utc | 291

Thanks for the comments. However, you present zero verified science where it matters to support your rhetoric and your rhetoric is generally skewed...false to the point of delusionality inmost respects.

Far from being at loggerheads verging on war there is ongoing and abundant evidence that the US and China's elites form a vast connection through capitalist financial markets and consumerist ties.
Here is some fresh "scientific evidence" from today.

In a string of tweets Friday morning, Trump described Xi as "strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack" against the virus and predicted the outcome would be "very successful."

"He feels they are doing very well, even building hospitals in a matter of only days. Nothing is easy, but ... he will be successful, especially as the weather starts to warm & the virus hopefully becomes weaker, and then gone," Trump tweeted. "Great discipline is taking place in China, as President Xi strongly leads what will be a very successful operation. We are working closely with China to help!"

Far from being a socialist country China is in almost no respect different from the usual suspect neoliberal countries of the West.

Far from being a rising socialist vanguard, the Chinese people are a rising consumerist, middle class nation keen on acquisition of capitalist growth maintained through surging levels of government-induced debt.

I won't belabor your ongoing fairy tale but it is worth calling it out for what it is to counteract your nonsense.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 7 2020 13:54 utc | 292

@ Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 7 2020 13:54 utc | 292

I have commented here in this blog many times over why China has a socialist system and will not repeat myself indefinitely.

But just to highlight the main factors:

1) China went through a socialist revolution and is still governed by the same revolutionary party.

2) China is, officially, a "market socialist with Chinese characteristics" nation. Evidence on Chinese common sense indicates those are not empty words, and that the Chinese indeed consider themselves socialist. Socialism is also considered the successor of Confucionism, and thus the CCP has the Mandate of the Heavens (hegemony).

3) In China, the main means of production - including all of the land and the whole financial sector - is in the hands of the CCP. Only the non-essential for national security sectors (i.e. the "consumer goods" sectors) are allowed to be in private hands.

4) China itself doesn't have Armed Forces. The PLA, PLAN, PLAAF etc. etc. are all part of the CCP. The CCP, therefore, has monopoly of violence - one of the two main ingredients to achieve and hold the hegemony.

5) Even in the private sector, all factory above a certain number of workers must have a communist commissar.

6) China is considered socialist by its main enemies - all of them capitalists.

China being neoliberal is pure middle class fabrication, a complete fantasy. It is a little story that makes the so-called "champagne socialists" (i.e. First World late social-democrats) and trotskyists to sleep better at night. This narrative becomes even more absurd if we consider the fact that Trump has recently sanctioned China for being a "currency manipulator". For people who rant about "neoliberalism" without knowing what it really is: China has a "fixed currency" regime. Fixed currency is pure cancer for neoliberalism; the fact that China uses this regime automatically excludes every possible definition of neoliberalism that otherwise could be thrown at it.

Posted by: vk | Feb 7 2020 14:16 utc | 293

@ denk | Feb 7 2020 2:44 utc | 273

You are quite the ignorant fuckup shit. Go away.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Feb 7 2020 15:20 utc | 294

Formerly T-Bear 295

hey stupid cunt,
I never read your posts and suggest you
do the same to mine,.

Who do you think you are ?

Posted by: denk | Feb 7 2020 15:37 utc | 295

@Phil #262
You are attempting to ascribe motive to random, natural activity.
Equally, you are failing to understand the full implications of how evolution really works.
Evolution is purely about survival. If a virus can replicate, then it has successfully survived. Death of the host cell doesn't matter any more than death of a fawn by wolf bite.
Sickle cell anemia is an excellent example. It is a 1 base pair genetic defect - the mutation causes a protein to not fold correctly; this aberrant protein in turn causes red blood cells to deform into the sickle shape.
One copy of this defective gene confers significant resistance to malaria - slightly deformed red blood cells are apparently not tasty to the malaria parasite. 2 copies of this gene kills the bearer in youth.
But overall, the sickle cell mutation is extremely successful because malaria's impact on the population is far worse than the 2 copy sickle cell deaths.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 7 2020 15:39 utc | 296

@ donkeytale

you wrote:


"Far from being a socialist country China is in almost no respect different from the usual suspect neoliberal countries of the West.

I used to believe that until I visited China.

There are wealth disparities. Sure there is a lot of private business. I would sum up the differences as follows - short version:

In the West the banks control the state, in China the state controls the banks.

In neo-liberal countries people who find it difficult to find work are thrown away like rubbish. In China, the attitude is 'no person left behind' Many, many millions of people work
in simple useful jobs which allow them to make a contribution and make a basic income. It gives them a social connection.

China realizes that private economic activity is a motor of development, but uses that motor as a tool - not an end in itself.

As I've mentioned in other posts, China stresses social responsibility more than private freedom, and now is linking this up to promoting the family and traditional values.

China doesn't save on public instrastructure and amenities. I'm not just transport and such here, but also schools, libraries, museums, parks and so on. The level and standard of
provision of all these public goods is the best I have seen.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 7 2020 16:09 utc | 297

Reading a review of matters in the old DDR by Comrade Brother Victor. Neat guy. "Victor Grossman's Berlin Bulletin"...swam the river an' all of that.

His latest essay has such a jolly title too> "A FASCIST COUP", well tell the truth an' shame th' devil!

a fragment>For the very first time, a state government – in Thuringia

"almost unknown Thomas Kemmerich, 54, local head of the FDP, which had only barely crossed the necessary 5% hurdle to get seated at all. (It got about 5.0005 % – with a plus of 71 votes, many from his own family with its six sons and daughters plus in-laws). But in that secret ballot he not only got his own five-man caucus votes but those of all AfD members as well, who had obviously made a deal to drop their own hopeless candidate. Even together the two had only 26 delegates, however. It was the secret support by the CDU delegates which, defying all their party’s pledges, joined the AfD to give Kemmerich the needed success: 45 to 44.

Ramelow was out! And, like a thunderbolt from Hades, was the fact that the AfD, while probably not opfficially in the new government, would have veto ..."

Posted by: Walter | Feb 7 2020 16:15 utc | 298

Imagine if all of the abstainers instead voted "neither democrat nor republican" - the relative lack of support for either party and the need for a genuine alternative would become obvious pretty quickly.
Posted by: farm ecologist | Feb 6 2020 14:59 utc | 211

Were I American, I guess in 2016 I would have been in that camp: none of them. But am I correct there isn't an option to vote: neither D or GOP? To express your dissent you gotta vote for either or?

Personally over here on my own homefront I would prefer to vote selectively on to be decided on central issues by whatever party. But then I am not sure if that would be helpful. ... Neither if it would be easy to calculate >the winner that takes it all< after. ;)

I feel you pain though. Be well.

Posted by: Vig | Feb 7 2020 16:18 utc | 299

sorry farmer ecologist@211

To express your dissent you have to vote for a party that doesn't have the least chance. Obviously. Not "To express your dissent you gotta vote for either" or?

Posted by: Vig | Feb 7 2020 16:25 utc | 300

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