Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 1, 2020
Novel Coronavirus Defies Conspiracy Theories As Data Shows Its Coming Decline

There are first signs that the novel Cornoavirus  (nCoV19) epidemic will come to an end within a month or so. An analysis from the Chinese media house Caixin provides the newest numbers (machine translated):

[O]n January 31, 2020, 2102 new cases of new coronavirus were diagnosed nationwide, 46 deaths were added, and 5019 suspected cases were added which increased by 6.1%, 7.0%, and 4.3% respectively compared with the previous day, and increased by 21.8%, 29.0%, and 23.3% respectively compared with the average of the previous three days.

There are some 12.000 recognized infected persons in total. More than 99.9% of all nCoV19 cases are in China. The growth per day is still strong but not exponential. With people now traveling less from, to and within China the epidemic will likely stay contained.

We had documented in an earlier post that neither the infectiousness nor the mortality of the novel Cornoavirus are especially severe. This New York Times graphic also explains that.


bigger

More from Caixin (machine translated):

As of January 31, the cumulative number of severe cases accounted for 15.8% of the confirmed cases, and the mortality rate (accumulated death cases accounted for the cumulative confirmed cases) has remained at the level of 2.2% for 3 consecutive days.

Both numbers are relatively low and here are the first signs that the epidemic is coming to a halt:

The current situation of the new coronavirus epidemic situation is still serious, the epidemic situation is still spreading and spreading throughout the country, and the number of newly diagnosed cases has increased. At the same time, the growth rate of confirmed cases nationwide has also shown signs of decline. The number of newly cured cases on the 30th and 31st days exceeded the number of new deaths.

The declining growth rate proves that the quite extreme quarantine measure China has taken are very effective.

New test kits for the novel coronavirus have been developed and were approved by the Chinese regulator NMPA (vid). These new kits allow new patients to be tested in just 30 minutes. People who have a normal flu can now be early on distinguished from those who have caught the virus.

The graph of new suspected cases per day (yellow) is flattening while the number of newly confirmed cases per day (red) is now linear and starts to show a slight decrease.


 Source: Dxybigger

Unless something unforeseen happens we are now coming near to the top of the epidemic. The number of new infections per day may soon start to decrease.

All this is good news. The Global Times is already pushing for new economic measures to increase growth when the epidemic is over.

But there is also bad news in that some people use the epidemic to profit from it.

There have been a number of conspiracy stories which make totally unfounded claims that the virus is a bio weapon or that it escaped from a high security bio lab in Wuhan or was intentionally created or released by Chinese researchers. To use such fantasies to then dox a researcher is irresponsible.

The novel coronavirus is NOT a bioweapon. No military will develop a weapon that kills only 2% of those affected by it. A real bio weapon would also spread much faster.

The Wuhan Institute of Virology and the Wuhan National Biosafety Laboratory are first class medical research institutions with many global cooperation agreements. The laboratory was built after China had been hit by the SARS epidemic. It is the only one in China that has a Bio Safety Level of 4:

BSL-4 labs are rare. However some do exist in a small number of places in the US and around the world. As the highest level of biological safety, a BSL-4 lab consists of work with highly dangerous and exotic microbes. Infections caused by these types of microbes are frequently fatal, and come without treatment or vaccines. Two examples of such microbes include Ebola and Marburg viruses.

In addition to BSL-3 considerations, BSL-4 laboratories have the following containment requirements:

  • Personnel are required to change clothing before entering, shower upon exiting
  • Decontamination of all materials before exiting
  • Personnel must wear appropriate personal protective equipment from prior BSL levels, as well as a full body, air-supplied, positive pressure suit
  • A Class III biological safety cabinet

A BSL-4 laboratory is extremely isolated—often located in a separate building or in an isolated and restricted zone of the building. The laboratory also features a dedicated supply and exhaust air, as well as vacuum lines and decontamination systems.

The U.S. has at least 13 such labs. Some of those are used by the military and may be used for bio weapon research. But most are medical research facilities.

The laboratory in Wuhan is specialized on viruses that are typical for the larger area. Some of its leaders are researching why bats are not affected by the viruses that they carry and which can kill people. SARS is known to have emerged from bats. Knowing how a bat's protection mechanism works could help to create better vaccines.

To jump from those facts to unfounded speculations and to accusing the researchers of having developed the nCoV19 or of spreading it is truly nefarious.

Aside from conspiracy nutters there is one serious suggestion that the novel coronavirus may indeed be something special.

A number of Indian researchers have self-published a paper that claims that the 'building plan' of the novel coronavirus, its RNA, contains elements of the HIV-1 Aids virus RNA. The paper was NOT peer reviewed and two researchers in microbiology I have contacted have, like me, doubts about its conclusions.

The paper confirms that the novel coronavirus is related to the virus that caused the SARS epidemic:

Our phylogentic tree of full-length coronaviruses suggests that 2019-nCoV is closely related to SARS CoV [Fig 1]. In addition, other recent studies have linked the 2019-nCoV to SARS CoV.

The researchers then sequenced 6 strings which form a part of the RNA of the novel corona virus. They find that there are four short insertions that distinguish it from the SARS virus:

We then translated the aligned genome and found that these inserts are present in all Wuhan 2019-nCoV viruses except the 2019-nCoV virus of Bat as a host [Fig.S4]. Intrigued by the 4 highly conserved inserts unique to 2019-nCoV we wanted to understand their origin. For this purpose, we used the 2019-nCoV local alignment with each insert as query against all virus genomes and considered hits with 100% sequence coverage. Surprisingly, each of the four inserts aligned with short segments of the Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) proteins.

The inserts in the 1387 units long string which also occur in HIV-1 have a length of 6 to 8. They are in my estimate too few and too short to make a statistically viable case. But the researchers suggest, without providing a statistical model or calculations, that these are not only significant but probably artificial:

Although, the 4 inserts represent discontiguous short stretches of amino acids in spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV, the fact that all three of them share amino acid identity or similarity with HIV-1 gp120 and HIV-1 Gag (among all annotated virus proteins) suggests that this is not a random fortuitous finding. In other words, one may sporadically expect a fortuitous match for a stretch of 6-12 contiguous amino acid residues in an unrelated protein. However, it is unlikely that all 4 inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike glycoprotein fortuitously match with 2 key structural proteins of an unrelated virus (HIV-1).

The math that would support the assertion that it is unlikely that short sequences in parts of nConV19 and HIV-1 amino acid strings are identical is not in the paper. I doubt that the researchers made the necessary calculations.

The researchers then show that the insertions may help to form a part of the binding structure that allows the virus to attach to a host cell. They conclude:

This uncanny similarity of novel inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag is unlikely to be fortuitous.

and

Taken together, our findings suggest unconventional evolution of 2019-nCoV that warrants further investigation.

What those researchers found is interesting. It suggests that something modified the SARS virus RNA by adding four small elements from HIV-1 to create nCoV19. If this is proven correct it might help to find a vaccine against nCoV19.

But the conclusions are in my view too strong and not substantiated enough to make them fully acceptable. While the similarities may not be 'fortuitous' they may make evolutionary sense and may have evolved through some natural process which is not 'unconventional'. If a host (a bat or human) carries the HIV-1 virus and the SARS virus might the replications of those viruses mix?

The presented paper nowhere tests or discusses that hypothesis.

The authors may well deserve more research money for the 'warranted further investigations' but that should be decided only after other experts have discussed their proposition.

Comments

@Arch Mangle
@PavewayIV

You haven’t read my comment,,
The nCov virus infects the host through the AT2 (ACE-2) receptor cells in the lungs. Because of certain gene sequences Asian males have the highest count of ACE-2 receptors cells in their lungs of all races. Just read through the following twitter thread with links to gov sites which corroborates that fact:
https://twitter.com/HarmlessYardDog/status/1222635075046649856

Posted by: dave | Feb 3 2020 15:42 utc | 201

Posted by: dave | Feb 3 2020 15:42 utc | 204

The nCov virus infects the host through the AT2 (ACE-2) receptor cells in the lungs. Because of certain gene sequences Asian males have the highest count of ACE-2 receptors cells in their lungs of all races.

I read your comment. My question was what are the chances of that 90% figure being driven by cultural factors. Yes, the ACE-2 receptor factor is extremely compelling but I think that the cultural factor would compound the effect even more.

Posted by: Arch Mangle | Feb 3 2020 16:12 utc | 202

This seems just as likely and points a finger at DARPA
https://www.unz.com/wwebb/bats-gene-editing-and-bioweapons-recent-darpa-experiments-raise-concerns-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

Posted by: Linda Jean Doucett | Feb 3 2020 16:22 utc | 203

China is manipulating the numbers big-time.
Setting up ‘fever clinics’ and then not counting people there in the new cases category.
Not counting fatalities unless it occurs in hospital. Outside hospitals they are taking the stance that ‘hey, cause of death is indeterminate’
The cops, Ministry of State Security, etc are all over people for posting to social media.
Crematoriums have been run 24/7 to hide the date. No, this is not ‘fake news’. Local activists are attesting to this. People have paid attention and noticed. People are afraid to post to social media but some still are. The government has admitted to cremating after first denying it.
We are not getting accurate numbers. This thing is no way near over. We don’t know a lot.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 3 2020 16:33 utc | 204

@Arch Mangle No you haven’t read my comment nor the gov and twitter links. A virus does not care about the social factor LOL, it is not like the Chinese were isolated in a vacuum from the rest of society, they take the public transport too you know where they can infect others, especially in Western Europe where public transport is the primary means of transportation.
Breaking news:
Wuhan Begins Human Trials Of New Gilead Coronavirus Vaccine.

A vaccine from the USA, imagine that, normally a vaccine would take at a minimum 1 year to develop, but hey they found a “miracle” cure for a Chinese virus they haven’t seen before. https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/wuhan-begins-human-trials-new-gilead-coronavirus-vaccine

Posted by: dave | Feb 3 2020 16:42 utc | 205

@dave 207
Shocking stuff!! Who knew?
BTW: lots of hospitals. are having good results using Aids anti-viral medications to treat nCoV.
Also, very interesting to see that people are being quarantined in Army hospitals. They want this nowhere near population centres.
Governments, including China, are not telling what they know. This is more virulent than they want to admit.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 3 2020 16:50 utc | 206

@dorje It is only virulent for East Asians not so much for Caucasians, but it can always mutate and become dangerous for Caucasians too, but i would not worry for us whites. Just as this white German guy got infected with nCov, had mild symptoms, after 2 days he went back to work, no big deal for whites (except for the targeted genotype, the Chinese and East Asians).

Posted by: dave | Feb 3 2020 16:58 utc | 207

As background. I have nothing about the CV, but only a related input, from the US Congressional Record
fragment> “Factories of Death, Japanese
Biological Warfare, 1932-45, and the American Cover-up”
(Routlege: London and New York; hard cover edition 1994;
paperback printings, 1995, 1997, 1998, 1999). I discovered in
the course of my research for this book, and scholarly
articles that I published on the subject of Japanese
biological and chemical warfare preparations, that members of
the Japanese Imperial Army Medical Corps committed heinous
war crimes. These included involuntary laboratory tests of
various pathogens on humans–Chinese, Korean, other Asian
nationalities, and Allied prisoners of war, including
Americans. Barbarous acts encompassed live vivisections,
amputations of body parts (frequently without the use of
anesthesia), frost bite exposure to temperatures of 40-50
degrees Fahrenheit below zero, injection of horse blood and
other animal blood into humans, as well as other horrific
experiments. When a test was completed, the human …”
The general idea being that since the US adopted the Japanese program, one might ask…when did they stop? I mean when the the Policy change from murder to being nice?

Posted by: W | Feb 3 2020 17:43 utc | 208

[a show guest used] Coronavirus to proclaim that this proves that the ‘Chinese govt is incompatible with the modern world’. He kept repeating that phrase as if it was now a priority to overthrow the Chinese govt for the survival of the planet (or perhaps return to the pre-Nixon era). Dang, these guys are creepy.
I’m going to look to buy some more of the Chinese ETF on the dip or maybe the BRICs.
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Feb 3 2020 12:09 utc | 188
NYT resident useful idiot:
Coronavirus Spreads, and the World Pays for China’s Dictatorship
Xi used his tight rule to control information rather than to stop an epidemic.
By Nicholas Kristof
Opinion Columnist
Jan. 29, 2020
In the democracy, it is different. In the face if AIDS, USA could proudly show what well informed and competent Presidents Reagan and Bush could achieve. Hm.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 3 2020 17:53 utc | 209

@Bruce 132
Remember that the first patient is only the first to show symptoms and get detected. He very probably wasn’t the first to catch the virus. Thus the reasoning was irrelevant.
Furthermore, the fact that 2/3 of the 41 patients were in touch with the market is a reality whom significance is beyond any doubt, though on the other side the HIV DNA coincidence as no significance from a statistical POV.
By the way I think the bioweapon hypothesis is very plausible. Nevertheless, do you believe the CIA would have left the proof of it available to any clownish scientist? My guess is that the CIA worked in such a way that the proof could not even be found by the best ones.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 3 2020 18:21 utc | 210

Here is a question to @LULU:
Which day of January, ordinary peoples of Wuhan began to behave in order to prevent virus transmission? Which day 99% of them did?
These are very useful data to understand the current evolution of the numbers.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 3 2020 18:37 utc | 211

Ship Track@184 – “In my view, “science” has become a new religion that is as corrupted as all the old time ones. Sounds like healthy skepticism and there’s nothing wrong with that – especially when it comes to for-profit science and energy, defense or health. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, just stating my (unsubstantiated) opinion of one, single scientist.
dave@195 – “this explains East Asian males have gene sequences that positively influences the amount of ACE2-expressing cells” Sorry, I can’t make heads or tails out of the references. And I don’t understand if those were single-cell derived values or some representative whole-body number. Cells in the small intestine also have a high ACE2 expression. Nobody seems to mention that – do Asian Males also have more ACE2 expression in their small intestine cells, or less?
The whole ‘Asian Male’ target thing is interesting but it’s too early to tell if it’s significant (my opinion). That doesn’t mean I exclude the possibility, it’s just that speculation doesn’t help anything right now. We will know for sure in a few weeks. It will be impossible to hide that kind of epidemiological evidence regardless of the ACE2 connection or any ethnic ‘theories’. I’ll save my well-depleted outrage until then.
Consider this, though: if it was ‘Asian Male’ specific – did nCoV emerge in Wuhan because it was man-made and planted there, or because the virus’ natural mutation meant China is where it was most likely to emerge, anyway? Viruses have been mutating for the last hundred thousand years to survive. Viruses don’t care if some psychopath exploits that adaptability to kill everyone – they’ll keep evolving as long as there’s some host left alive on this planet. We don’t even know all the really horrible viruses bats carry right now – we only know some of them.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 3 2020 19:00 utc | 212

Parisian Guy @213
What leads you to believe that the gangsters in the CIA running these operations are any smarter than Boeing management? “Derp! We’ll just change the name and it will all be better!”
Furthermore, the CIA has tremendous influence in western mass media. These Harvard frat boys are confident that they can control the public narrative on these issues and in so doing control what the public believes. If the US bioweapon narrative starts gaining traction they will just get their tools Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow and associates at the New York Langley Times and Washington Bezos Post to ridicule it as “crazy conspiracy theory”, like they did with their murder of Seth Rich.
These clowns’ hubris far outpaces their intelligence.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 3 2020 19:02 utc | 213

@dave 210
yes, I read about the German guy. He did very well and I am glad to hear he turned around in under 72 hrs I believe. It may be irrelevant but he continued to have a 10^8/ml of virii in sputum AFTER but again that may not be an issue; not sure if they will culture that and see if it is active.
I’m not concerned that it will take off in N.America or W.Europe but what I am concerned about is the PRC govt is haven’t difficulty with this and are trying to hide it. The evidence suggests they are gathering up bodies and cremating. Sorry doubters but the evidence is out there and the western MSM is slow to admit it then they later cave and go ‘okay’.
There is a bottom line with the elites to deny, deny.
One gentleman, N. Ferguson, estimated that Wuhan probably has 75,000 infected.
I’m believe, after assessing this, that a more realistic number of infected for China is 100,000;deaths of 1,000-2,000.
Again, the number of crematoriums running 24.7 suggests that death toll is much more realistic.
Wuhan has 20,000 hospital beds. They built 2 hospitals and brought in 10, 000 more civilian/military doctors and staff.
All this tells me they are lying. Currently, police are tracking down cases and hauling people off to be quarantined. I imagine that they are finding some dead and these are being sent to the crematories.
None of this is fear mongering. It is reality based on assessing what information is at hand. I wish this were a simple flu but I don’t believe it is.
I think the Chinese will remember this winter for generations. I am hoping somewhere at the top of MinSS and/or Min of Health they are keeping actual, accurate numbers to get the correct Ro. Maybe they are sh@tting bricks because it’s 3.75. I don’t know but we will see.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 3 2020 19:36 utc | 214

It seems that the countries “Affected” are doing their best to make it a real world-wide panic by spreading cases around. Doing exactly what I think you should NOT do in a Pandemic.
French example; A hundred or so of french citizens are evacuated from Wuhan by air. These people are put in close contact (seated) with each other in a closed space, (the aircraft,) and made to breath recirculated air for many hours. Arrival in france, and they are taken by motorcade (Police and buses) to quarantine. We are told that when they left Wuhan these people were “checked” and did not have Coronavirus. We are also told that they “might have” the virus on arrival in France. If they didn’t, they will have now !
Cue in TV speakers waving arms in air in horror and “talking heads” shouting incomprehensible “opinions”.

Posted by: Stonebird | Feb 3 2020 19:37 utc | 215

Here’s the problem with looking at a specific graph based on government data too early:
Suspected/Confirmed graph through 31Jan b used on 1Feb
Suspected/Confirmed graph 2Feb as it appears today 3Feb from ncov.dxy.cn site
[Latest] for looking at updates after 3Feb
I’m not criticizing b here – I kind of hoped it was flattening out, too. There is absolutely nothing to cheer about with the rates continuing to rise. I still agree with the rest of b’s observations in his article, especially pointing out the weak logic in the paper regarding the nCoV-HIV1 connection.
Of course it’s important to consider the possibility this was man-made by Big Pharma or part of some evil bioweapons program. They’ll be plenty of time for looking into that after they bury the dead. Nobody gets a prize today for guessing ‘first’ based on random scraps of evidence. You can always come back here and crow about being right six months from now – there’s nothing to be gained by convincing anyone today one way or the other.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 3 2020 20:59 utc | 216

I haven’t found anything definitive on whether coronaviruses, specifically, are affected by season like the regular seasonal flu. As far as I can tell, it will be seasonal and transmission will drop just like transmission of the ‘regular’ flu viruses at the end of a region’s ‘flu season’. Don’t have a any kind of authoritative source for that, just speculation. If anyone has read anything different than this, please let us know.
Random things I was wondering about the flu answered by this an obviously non-authoritative but intersting AccuWeather article:
People in the tropics don’t get the flu too much, although it’s possible – why?

There is also no real flu season in the tropics. Flu viruses are more stable in cold air and the low humidity allows the virus particles to remain in the air, according to Peter Palese, who was the lead author on a key flu study in 2007.

I live in the U.S., and our flu season starts about October, peaks around January and sometimes lasts until March. Southern hemisphere? The article (from October 2019) references Australia’s last flu season:

Australia, which is finishing its flu season, had an unusually early and initially severe season, beginning in April, two months earlier than usual, and lasting into October. However, initial dire projections leveled off as the season continued. “The overall number of cases of influenza-linked illnesses (ILI) and hospitalizations weren’t unusual in their overall size, though the timing is certainly strange,” Dr. Lewis said.

So which hemisphere gets the flu ‘first’?

Why does Australia’s flu season matter? It doesn’t. Or it does. Or maybe it does just some of the time.
“It’s too early to tell for sure, because sometimes Australia is predictive and sometimes it’s not,” Dr. Daniel B. Jernigan, director of the influenza division of the CDC, told The New York Times.
“Anecdotally, we’ve seen bad seasons in Australia presage bad seasons in the U.S., but we’ve also seen the opposite,” Dr. Lewis said. “Given the back-to-back unusual seasons we’ve seen in the last two years, I’m having trouble thinking that this season in the U.S. can again be unusually long or intense.”

Slightly more than half of the flu confirmations in the US this season have been Influenza B, but those seem to have peaked while the number of Influenza A confirmations is still rising (slightly). Graph here
I couldn’t find anything specific on Wuhan’s ‘regular’ flu season or illness numbers. If anyone has a source, please post.
The CDC has a page about past pandemics. The last one was in the 2009-2010 season:

From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.

Additionally, CDC estimated that 151,700-575,400 people worldwide died from (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first year the virus circulated.

It is estimated that 0.001 percent to 0.007 percent of the world’s population died of respiratory complications associated with (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection during the first 12 months the virus circulated.

Incidentally, (H1N1)pdm09 is by far *87%) the dominant type of influenza A this year. It’s not the exact strain that caused the 2009 pandemic because… flu viruses mutate.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 3 2020 22:13 utc | 217

@86,
Interesting question whether the nucleic acid (RNA) sequences encoding inserts were proposed to match HIV (21 nucleotides for 7 aa, for example). Because of the redundancy of the genetic code, picking of the same codon for each amino acid would seem to add significance if that had occurred. The claimed Indian match was at the level of the encoded amino acids, so I think codon redundancy would not affect stats associated with their narrower claim.
But I think the larger points would be whether there is actually any match at all, and if there is, what information could be deduced by aligning sequences from the tree of all HIVs and the tree of all human coronaviruses. It would require a few hours of somebody’s time to go more deeply into this.
– Regards, Shyaku

Posted by: Shyaku | Feb 4 2020 1:57 utc | 218

So how do we know this or anything else for that matter is real. What if its a global media-government fiction. As a famous neocon once said, we create your reality and all you can do is try and keep up. The Noble Lie as espoused by philosophers from Plato to Leo Strauss condone lies by the elite to manipulate the lower classes for their own good (their being the elite)
We are told China has a bunch of people who are sick. I don’t doubt it. Lots of people in China. Lots of pollution. Its cold/flu season. High population density facilitates spread of any virus. But what if they just made up the fact that its a new disease to scare their people into accepting draconian measures like forced quarantines, drone harassment, travel bans. Perhaps to implement forced vaccinations that may help their aging overpopulation problem? Perhaps to distract a population growing uneasy with an economic down turn, growing personal debt, increasing inequality, pollution and a faction that cant be too happy with a trade deal in which China got nothing in return? Maybe blame the US to spark nationalistic support for the party elite?
Maybe the West is playing along because Big Pharma sees an opportunity (Gilead Science-Rumsfelds Tamiflu company is trialing a new antiviral in Beijing). Vaccine developers at Big Pharma/NIH are hard at work, can mandatory vaccinations for travelers be far behind? Event 201 and Netflix Pandemic production (released in January), both with neomalthusian Bill Gates connections /sponsorship show this was something the elites had prepared for.
But some might say what about the tests showing they have the virus? These tests developed by China only show patients have certain antibodies that are claimed to be specific to the virus. Maybe they are common in a certain group of patients with respiratory infection and not specific to this virus. Genome sequences? Who knows where they came from. In the US , CDC has a monopoly on all testing. CDC is a captured agency of Big Pharma caught several times of lying about vaccine data. Not trustworthy.
Now I am not saying this is a hoax, i don’t know this, I am just asking you to think about what you really know, which is nothing except 2nd-10th hand reports.
Now, people in Wuhan may know a lot more, but there is no free speech in China. The internet is heavily censored. People are for the most part imprisoned in their homes now, allowed out to shop every other day. There are no reports out of Wuhan that are not censored.
As for the crematoriums. Hey, Wuhan has 500+ deaths a day without a pandemic. They cremate everyone who dies, not just coronavirus victims.
Sick people in hospital? Duh. People wearing masks? Most wear masks season round due to pollution, and now they are mandatory, so nothing there.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 4 2020 2:34 utc | 219

Posted by: dorje | Feb 3 2020 16:33 utc | 207
You seem to enjoying continue bashing China and posting fake news. Have a heart they are doing their best helping their fellow mankind. FXXK the hiding lying shit. Please watch following vid. The new hospital Huoshenshan just opens, patients streaming in from ambulances with wheelchairs waiting… Even more concern citizens delivered (either free or below cost) cooked food for both hospital workers (nurse, doctors) and patients
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiNY9WvLxJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMdwwddX2Lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KXtC8w8IDY

Posted by: JC | Feb 4 2020 2:35 utc | 220

shyaku @ 221

…match HIV (21 nucleotides for 7 aa, for example). Because of the redundancy of the genetic code, picking of the same codon for each amino acid would seem to add significance if that had occurred. The claimed Indian match was at the level of the encoded amino acids, so I think codon redundancy would not affect stats associated with their narrower claim.

I think the opposite. If the match was at the amino acid level, then many different dna sequences could be the cause of that. That makes coincidence more likely.
That is, if the AAs match, but there is not that high a match with the dna BPs, does that indicate random evolution?

Posted by: john brewster | Feb 4 2020 2:55 utc | 221

China puts novel coronavirus mortality rate at 2.1%

“At present, the number of those who had recovered is growing steadily. We are absolutely sure of our ability to win this battle against the epidemic,” the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s spokeswoman said

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 4 2020 3:47 utc | 222

LIke I said previously,
The comments on SARS2 ranges from..
ignorant, stupid, willfully obtuse, in denial, to typical murkkan M,O…..blaming the victim.
Too much B.S.. , too little time.
To recap…
pr[BSL4 LAB leak] = freak accident, meaning highly unlikely.
Pr [bsl4 leak/ given that it occurs at a time of mass
exodus , at Wuhan which is an economic powerhouse, a central hub of fast rail and international air link AND happens to be the site of a BSL4 LAB, when [[[they]]] have been mounting an intensive hybrid warfare on China since Trumps’ appointment….trade war blitzkrieg, Uighur and Tibet destabilisation, provocations in SCS,
TW strairts, swine flu, SARS2 and now H7N9….]
= practically zero.
Ian Fleming says
‘I’d be damned if this isnt an enemy action’
Who might that be ?
well,
who’ has been assaulting China by covert, covert wars since 1949, thats right, all of 70 years incessant attacks, including biowarfare during the Korean war, SARS1 ?
Who’ has the motive ?
This from the horse mouse….
During the peak of HK riots,
Pelsoi
‘What a beautiful sight to behold’
Former senior adviser in the Trump and Bush administrations Christian Whiton,
“causing this crisis for the Chinese government … is good in the national interests of the US.””
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52253.htm
Who benefits, cui bono ?
Again from the horse mouse,
Wilbur Ross
‘This is a godsend to bring back our factories and revamp the entire supply chain’
Then there’s the ultimate insult…
‘This is a Chinese FF’,some even hinted at a Jew/Chinese joint op.
Imagine there’s a certified arsonist in JOhn’s neighborhood, he was caught red handed setting fire to John’s house , the attacks has been intensifying lately.
John’s house caught fire last night.
Any sane person would suspect the serial arsonist who hates John’s gut, only those with a sick mind would suggest that John would do this to himself, may be to claim insurance !
USA is truly the land of idiots and sick mind.
Ian Fleming
Why else do you think they keep electing producing one psycho after another to run [[[their]]] country….???
From the horse mouth…
Pompeo
WE LIE, WE CHEAT AND WE ROBBED, Thats how we make a living folks,
Mind you, the sob is actually bragging it, like its a badge of honor.
sob is at it again…
China is our central threat
When I said,
‘dont blame others, its the people stupid’
Many people protest indignantly, yet they keep coming
back to vincdicate my assertion.
Too much B.S.
Too little time,.

Posted by: denk | Feb 4 2020 5:38 utc | 223

farm ecologist @ 177
john brewster @196
Thank you for the article critical of the Indian research paper. I was hoping it would put a serious hole in the analysis, particularly given it was written by a big pharma bioinformaticist – and as the writer’s credentials do appear to check out. Except he just graduated and holds an entry level position, Ph.D. notwithstanding. He told you part but not all, and his article is not much better. I wrote this up not to criticize him, deserved or not – I was not familiar with this field until last week, and I want to check and question my own analysis. So I did with this what I have done with the Indian paper. Here you go:
Author’s note: I have a Ph.D. in bioinformatics, and am a principal data scientist at a major pharmaceutical company. [Dude – you just graduated.] This paper isn’t directly in my wheelhouse, but it’s pretty close. [Not in comparison to the credentials of the people who wrote the paper.]
This has led many to credulously [Gratuitous adjective] assume that this is evidence, or even a strong indication, that 2019-nCoV was engineered from its bat ancestor by humans inserting HIV sequences…An analysis of the paper clearly [!?!] reveals that…
• There is nothing remarkable about the fact that 2019-nCoV’s sequence diverges from its nearest known relative, or that its unique sequences are conserved among cases of 2019-nCoV. [Nobody said there was.]
• The sequence matches with HIV are very short [Complete functionality was transferred in each of the four cases and each is as it appears in HIV-1.] and appear in hypervariable regions of both virus, and similar overlaps are seen between 2019-nCoV sequences and many other organisms. [Hypervariable regions are where one would presumably perform a splice as it would be easier there. Similar overlaps are seen anywhere there is genetic material.]
• The unique biological properties that HIV sequences could theoretically impart to another virus are completely missing from 2019-nCoV [Like infection and mortality?], and 2019-nCoV has no unique clinical properties that are outside what is known to be possible for a coronavirus. [Again, it doesn’t have to be an effective bioweapon to have been engineered and it could have been engineered during a research process, but more importantly we obviously do not know the unique clinical properties of 2019-nCoV just yet.] [Note – the big four bullet points are made after the proverbial foregone conclusion was stated, and the points in the original study are not addressed at all.]
The virus has a close 96% sequence overlap to a naturally occurring bat coronavirus, and coronaviruses have been known to jump from bats to humans by way of intermediates before, like the SARS coronavirus. The differences between the genome sequences, including the ones identified by the Indian study, are in variable regions of the genome that we’d expect to differ, and the 4% difference in the genomes is hard to call as “high” or “low,” given that we don’t know exactly which bats the 2019-nCoV strain came from or when it diverged from its closest known ancestor. [He actually made the argument that because 96% is a naturally occurring bat coronavirus and 4% changes in DNA are not unusual (fair assumption but we don’t know much about bat coronavirus) there’s no reason to suspect this is bioengineered. He ignored almost every aspect of the original article’s reasoning as to why the coronavirus is suspect, and his argument is based on the given fact that the base is a bat coronavirus which is equally true (or not) whether engineered or naturally occurring. He hasn’t made a relevant argument regarding the original article. There’s a tendency to argue the Indian researchers needed to prove the inserts are definitely coming from HIV-1 and definitely not coming from someplace else or at least perform the statistical analysis to show how likely or unlikely that is, while they are simply pointing to the stacking of the probabilities being unrealistically beyond coincidence.]
Very short sequences are not really what pBLAST was designed for, especially not when searching huge databases. Looking through three million viral genomes for a sequence that short means you’re bound to find something, and other scientists have pointed out in the hours since the Indian paper was posted that similar overlaps, just as strong, may be found in a wide variety of viruses, and also bacteria, protists, fungi, fruit flies, and plants. [This sounds great, but again, it doesn’t address the aspects that are low probability in nature, upon which the researcher’s reflections were based. It addresses other aspects of what is observed and notes these aspects are not low probability in nature.]
The overlap to HIV is not to a “characteristic” HIV region that is conserved among HIV, but to particular samples (in fact, three different ones from three different countries). They’re just the flotsam and jetsam of variable regions generating a lot of different sequences which get picked up in mass sequencing efforts, not a smoking gun. [This is the closest the second article comes to actually challenging the first article. Are the HIV-1 sections themselves really indicative of bioengineering? The argument is made that they’re three different HIV-1 segments from three different countries. This is stated with confidence although it is also stated with confidence that the segments are just “flotsam and jetsam,” a peculiar reference for such a young author to use (I wonder where on earth he might have picked that up.). These segments have functionality. If someone is trying to build something, they do not necessarily intend to put their name on it so you know who made it, and they do not need to use more material than is necessary to build it in the first place. That these are small goes to the question of whether they might not have come from someplace else – that they are small and could have come from someplace else does not negate the chance they were deliberately spliced in. We don’t know. But that they all are part of HIV-1 (regardless of whether they might be part of something else as well), all show up at the same time, in the same place, to do the same sort of thing…is the supermarket analogy. None of that is addressed in this article.
Parisian Guy @ 213
It doesn’t look like there’s any reliable information about what happened first. Even if everyone had contact with the seafood market, it could have been engineered and gotten to the seafood market after that. The thesis of the Indian paper is that it is engineered, not by whom, or when or where or for what purpose. I think they did a good job of explaining it, and the politeness and softness of the message were likely intentional given the obvious controversy it would generate, which it did. I contacted one member and I have not yet heard back. I keep waiting for the elements of their argument to be addressed and picked apart but the counter arguments are all tangential or unrelated, or just not clear enough for someone of my limited background. Meanwhile the news is getting slowly, incrementally worse.

Posted by: Bruce | Feb 4 2020 6:47 utc | 224

Bruce @227:

The unique biological properties that HIV sequences could theoretically impart to another virus are completely missing from 2019-nCoV [Like infection and mortality?], and 2019-nCoV has no unique clinical properties that are outside what is known to be possible for a coronavirus.

Possible that HIV it was spliced in not to weaponize but to make it clear that it was “engineered”? Thus allowing Western media to point the finger at the Wuhan lab?
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 4 2020 7:23 utc | 225

Who’s pushing the ‘Chinese agents stole bioweapon from Canada’ and ‘HIV insertion’ , meme ?
thats right, [[[India]]]
[[[India]]] has been a [[[fukus]]] jawans since time immermorial,..
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ALKvoaaDS30/ThhrUl4uaUI/AAAAAAAABLY/y9N_0F5pnIM/s1600/Troops_of_the_Eight_nations_alliance_1900-1.jpg
[[[Eight nations alliance]]]
1962
https://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/samwith/within/pcnvrt05.htm

Posted by: denk | Feb 4 2020 7:51 utc | 226

Boyle says that the US holds a patent on a vaccine specific to the Chinese virus. Is it possible to have a vaccine if you don’t have the disease to cure or prevent? Alas, the Boffins say, “no, it’s not”, don’t they?
see YT> “Francis Boyle: Wuhan Coronavirus is an Offensive Biological Warfare Weapon”
Now then, since the US has a vaccine already, it might be speculated that the ringer worked. This was.
Agent C plans to steal the virus from Fort Germo for his own countries bioweapon defense establishment.
Fort Germo cops make Agent C, but let him steal the virus.
Fort Germo cops send Agent S to the BL4 lab fence in Agent C’s Country.
Agent C arrives and goes inside to share…
Agent S opens the jar.
That’s complex, but so is any con.
This method is necessary in order that the mark blames himself, otherwise he would shoot at you.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 4 2020 13:45 utc | 227

@PavewayIV There is no weak logic nCov having HIV-like inserts because the virus turns off your immune system before it infects your cells, similar mechanism as with the HIV virus

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 15:42 utc | 228

quoting @PavewayIV “”Consider this, though: if it was ‘Asian Male’ specific – did nCoV emerge in Wuhan because it was man-made and planted there, or because the virus’ natural mutation meant China is where it was most likely to emerge, anyway? Viruses have been mutating for the last hundred thousand years to survive.””
By your reasoning why the Chinese are more vulnerable is because the virus natural mutation and natural habitat is in China, but wouldn’t that make the Chinese more immune to the virus instead of Caucasians just like the host (bat) of the Corona virus is immune to that virus? AFAIK this nCov only harms the Chinese, a white German guy had mild symptoms and went back to work after 2 days, in Belgium 1 got infected with nCov, Belgian authorities saying nothing to worry about it is just like a mild flu season and will be gone before we know it. Yet in China, 25% of the infected are treated with “intensive care”.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 15:52 utc | 229

@PavewayIV Putin is worried about US military harvesting Russian bio samples for ethno-specific biological weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txu6w_UypwA

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 15:57 utc | 230

quoting @PavewayIV “”evil bio-weapons programs”(sarcasm?), “speculating..””
China is treating this as a biological attack, a fact, doctors, patients, residents in building blocks singing patriotic war-songs.
Perhaps the Falun Gong cult/5th culumn wants to imitate the Japanese Aum cult that wanted to take over Japan by carrying out a Sarin terror attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995? Perhaps a Foreign State Actor is providing them all the resources (virus) they need to take down China?
This reminds me of the movie “12 Monkeys” and the Japanese Aum cult that wanted to take over Japan through terror attacks.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
“Former practitioners of Falun Gong told NBC News that believers think the world is headed toward a judgment day, where those labeled “communists” will be sent to a kind of hell, and those sympathetic to the spiritual community will be spared. Trump is viewed as a key ally in the anti-communist fight, former Epoch Times employees said.”
“Devout practitioners of Falun Gong “believe that Trump was sent by heaven to destroy the Communist Party.””
This reminds me of the Iranian MEK cult that is accused of terrorism in Iran, also backed by the USA and John Bolton!
“Bolton has also long backed a cultlike Iranian opposition group, the Mujahideen-e Khalq, or M.E.K., which has been held responsible for the murder of multiple American military personnel, a kidnapping attempt of a U.S. Ambassador, and other violent attacks in Iran before the 1979 revolution. ”
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/john-bolton-cheerleader-for-the-mek/
The Iranian MEK cult was also involved with the assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists.
The Turkish Gülen cult was involved with the Turkish military coup d’etat attempt a few years ago, their leader is living in the USA and backed by Washington. Leader of Gülen is wanted by Turkey for terrorism charges. Turkey accused Washington of backing the coup d’etat attempt.
It seems to me, Washington is using dangerous cults, the Iranian MEK, Turkish Gülen and Chinese Falun Gong to do their geopolitical bidding.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 16:07 utc | 231

@ William Gruff | Feb 3 2020 19:02 utc | 216
Boeing hires cheap engineers to make cheap planes by design because they firstly care about profits.
CIA actually needs to care for plausible deniability. Furthermore I could not remember a case where they fucked it up.
You’re right, they’ll ridicule the conspiracy theories. But you forgot one effectively way to do it: use not the MSM but the internet to broadcast moronic conspiracy theories in order to kill credibility of all conspiracies theories, including the right ones.
As such, the list of hypotheses, ordered by decreasing probability,about this HIV/nCov article, is from my POV:
1) It was written by a gang of five 23 years olds who believed they were smarter than everyone.
2) It was written in Langley
3) It is the truth, being ridiculed by CIA trolls and useful idiots.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 4 2020 16:37 utc | 232

@Parisian Guy I do not care if 23 yo idiots wrote the research paper on nCov having HIV inserts, the fact is that doctors have stated that the nCov virus disables the immune system before it infects the cells, this is similar mechanism as that of HIV, that is why they are using HIV/AIDS medication in combination with influenza drugs.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 16:47 utc | 233

Bruce@227, Jackrabbit, Dave –
I understand the criticism of the 2020 Pradhan paper, but it finally clicked (in my simian brain) how unusual (unfortuitous) that the four S-protein segment insertions really are. Maybe I got this wrong:
1) They’re all in different places on the S-protein, rather than in a continuous segment.
2) The chances are pretty remote that ANY random set of two or three, much less four small inserts somewhere along the S-protein would leave it functional AT ALL. It would be expected that such a set of inserts would deactivate it or otherwise alter its function for the worse.
3) These new four inserts incredulously leave the S-protein’s existing function perfectly intact, specifically it’s critical ACE2 binding affinity (same as SARS). What are the chances that a random 4-segment insert doesn’t change the binding surface, but only adds previously unseen functionality to a coronavirus S-protein?
4) Those new segments 1) ADD binding affinity for human white blood cells (T-cells) at the CD4 site, ADD the capability to invade and corrupt T-cell functionality to make it produce yet more coronavirus, and CREATES a high affinity binding site for a chemokine co-receptor like CXCR4 and/or CCR5.
The paper’s authors describe the four inserts relation to HIV, but (from what I read) its nearly impossible for those four particular segments to have been produced naturally by some mutation with HIV or anything else and miraculously produce such an enhanced S-protein.
To your point, Bruce:
“The unique biological properties that HIV sequences could theoretically impart to another virus are completely missing from 2019-nCoV [Like infection and mortality?], and 2019-nCoV has no unique clinical properties that are outside what is known to be possible for a coronavirus.”
Those sequences’ theoretically imparted unique biological properties ARE there, according to The Lancet in this article:

Are Pradhan et. al.’s findings right or wrong? If correct, the virus should be able to invade human CD4 T cells and result in corresponding clinical features. A paper published in The Lancet on Jan. 24, 2020 by Professor Chaolin Huang from Jin Yin-tan Hospital, Wuhan, China, et. al., reviewing “Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China” supports Pradhan et. al’s conclusions.

Although low white blood cell counts are common in viral infections, it is surprising that 63 percent of all infected patients and 85 percent of those admitted to the ICU had lymphopenia with lymphocyte counts <1·0 × 109/L. In a study on SARS published March 2004 by C.M. Chu et. al. in the journal Thorax, the mean lymphocyte count was often reported as normal.
On Jan. 22, 2020, two clinical guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of Wuhan 2019-nCoV were posted on China websites. One is “Quick Guide for the Diagnosis and Treatment of New Coronavirus Pneumonia” authored by the expert group of Tongji Hospital, and the other is “Instructions for Handling 2019 New Coronavirus” from the Wuhan Union Hospital of Tongji Medical College of Huazhong University of Science and Technology. The first guideline clearly points out a “progressive lymphocyte reduction” while the second guideline highlights “the importance of monitoring the absolute value of lymphocytes.” (emphasis added)
Therefore, the observed lymphocyte reduction must be of clinical significance in a certain proportion of patients. CD4 positive T lymphocytes constitute a major fraction of all lymphocytes. Although not a routine test for patients with coronavirus infection, perhaps monitoring CD4 cell counts would be helpful in 2019-nCoV patients.

nCoV attacks lymphocytes reducing counts UNLIKE SARS or other coronaviruses. How about the CXCR4 and/or CCR5 and resulting cytokine storm and respiratory distress?

Another clinical feature of patients infected with 2019-nCoV is the high levels of serum cytokines and chemokines, which is defined as a cytokine storm (Huang et al 2020 Lancet). This is consistent with the observation from Pradhan et al. that the 2019-nCoV S-protein inducing structural rearrangements in GP120, creating a high affinity binding site for a chemokine co-receptor such as CXCR4 and/or CCR5. It is well known that activating T cell surface receptors can cause a cytokine storm. Cytokine storms have potential to create significant damage to organs and bodily tissues. If a cytokine storm occurs in the lungs, for example, immune cells such as macrophages and fluid may trigger tissue damage that results in acute respiratory distress and possible death.

Sounds like the result of those unique biological properties since doctors are distinguishing nCoV presentation with what they have seen in SARS.
Improbable for this mutation to have occurred naturally. And if I was and evil bioweapons engineer/scientist trying to ‘enhance’ SARS, I might just look for 1) someplace insert a few segments in the spike protein without screwing it up, and 2) something particularly nasty to insert in those segments, like gp120 and gag from HIV.
And it occurs to me that you all have probably already concluded as much in earlier posts – it all just flew over my head. Sorry!

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 4 2020 18:00 utc | 234

@ Bruce 227
“Even if everyone had contact with the seafood market, it could have been engineered and gotten to the seafood market after that.”
Obviously. Did someone claimed that could not be?
It is plausible, therefore what?
What is needed is a strong clue on the side of the bioweapon hypothesis. I don’t know where it could be found. Nevertheless I confidently think that it will not be found in clownish articles.
By the way, you are deluding yourself when believing that the probability of four random coincidences is “obviously too low”. No human has the IQ required to decide this point without actually making the maths.
Furthermore, because they did not published the probabilities computation, their article is unscientific to the level that it will never never never – did I say never? – be published in any peer reviewed scientific journal.
If they had published their maths AND the reasoning sustaining it, that could have been checked for errors.
They wanted to avoid the checking, therefore their place is in the trashcan.
https://explorable.com/falsifiability

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 4 2020 18:00 utc | 235

@PaveWayIV
The #coronavirus is apparently already transmissible with VERY MILD symptoms. This was confirmed by the Institute of Virology at the Charité Hospital in Berlin and the Institute of Microbiology of the German Armed Forces. source: https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1224756648402702345
In the mean time in China 25% of the infected need intensive care

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 18:19 utc | 236

@PaveWayIV The perpetrator is the Falun Gong cult in collaboration with the Washington Deep State.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 18:28 utc | 237

@Dave
HIV medications are not specific to HIV. They are used against a lot of other virus who have nothing common with HIV but the way they replicate themselves, which is the target of the drug.
About the ability of nCov to decrease immunity, thanks by advance if you give references showing nCov do that by the way of the same mechanism than the one used by HIV.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 4 2020 18:58 utc | 238

@Parisian Guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeR9i4BNTTY

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 19:03 utc | 239

Whitney Webb at Mint Press is doing some really grouynd-breaking investigative work on this now:
“while many of these theories are clearly speculative, there is also verifiable evidence regarding the recent interest of one controversial U.S. government agency in novel coronaviruses, specifically those transmitted from bats to humans. That agency, the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Project Agency (DARPA), began spending millions on such research in 2018 and some of those Pentagon-funded studies were conducted at known U.S. military bioweapons labs bordering China and resulted in the discovery of dozens of new coronavirus strains as recently as last April. Furthermore, the ties of the Pentagon’s main biodefense lab to a virology institute in Wuhan, China — where the current outbreak is believed to have begun — have been unreported in English language media thus far.”

Posted by: casey | Feb 4 2020 19:29 utc | 240

@all – The research paper suggesting HIV inserts in nCoV19 has been retracted by its authors after it received much well founded criticism from experts in that field.
Quick retraction of a faulty coronavirus paper was a good moment for science
The general criticque is exactly the one I mentioned.

John Girgis @HorsingJig 14:45 UTC · Feb 3, 2020
Pradhan et al. posted a highly controversial preprint suggesting that the virus was intentionally designed because of sequence similarity to HIV but they didn’t normal evolution as an option even though protease sites are universally similar anyway. 11/15

Posted by: b | Feb 4 2020 19:45 utc | 241

@b
Read PaveWayIV’s technical explanation, the Indians were right, they retracted the paper to have it updated and publish it when it is ready.
The debunkers of the Indian research paper BLAST-ed each insertion “one by one” to find resemblance with a variety of organisms not just HIV but what are the chances of a combination of 4 insertions to resemble HIV?
According to the reports, there would be three kinds of species that would have to be involved. An African cobra, a rare South Pacific bat, and some kind of sea-creature.
Plus 4 HIV inserts are not a natural occurrence.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 20:26 utc | 242

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jmhj-vnl5E
Is Wuhan virus a hit job? A whodunit not to miss. Uriah Heep, our Sherlock Holmes solves the case!

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 20:30 utc | 243

Zerohedge never doxed anyone. That guy had published his own contact info. That is where ZH got it from. How can you dox someone who has already stated clearly: ‘here is where I can be found’?
The lies swirling around are just amazing.
China currently has another swine flu outbreak, an avian flu outbreak and a corona outbreak. This means that the food supply has been dramatically impacted (pork and chicken) and the human population is suffering quarantine conditions and martial law(currently 50 million).
Debunking a conspiracy theory before all the evidence is even in tells me a lot about the Media in the West.
People who live in Wuhan say that they never eat wild animals. The restaurant that does serve them is an outlier. I find it strange that the go to was for the media to elicit a disgust response and claim that this corona came from bats when no evidence existed for that claim.
Evidence exists that this coronavirus is very dangerous because it leaves people above 50 in a very weakened state and thus susceptible to pneumonia.
The whole western media is turning on a dime and now admitting this is no flu.
This is a game changer. The numbers are a total lie. Over 100, 000 are infected, many are not getting any health care as their is no fuel and no public transport. The people in Wuhan are being left to fend in their homes and food is scarce. The gov’t in China dropped the ball and is playing catch up. The death toll is probably 5,000. We will never know, they are hiding the truth. Claims of cremating of bodies are consistent from many sources.
Shanghai will spike in 2 weeks and become a repeat of Wuhan. Beijing may as well.
When does the Title become: “World Wide Pandemic of CoronaVirus”?
All the evidence is there. All the Westerners coming back from China are being held in Government quarantines under legal mandates. Suspension of civil liberties means government is taking this very serious. Deadly serious.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 4 2020 21:28 utc | 244

“What are the chances of a combination of 4 insertions to resemble HIV? ”
In your opinion, who should have worked to find the answer? Who was needing that answer? Who had a scientific claim to validate?

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 4 2020 21:30 utc | 245

@Parisian Guy Apparently you have no clue about math and probabilities; the probability for 1 random insert resembling HIV is high, for each additional insert the probability for it to be just random noise decreases. The debunkers of the Indian research paper were only focusing on the probability of 1 insert to be random noise. And i am not even a scientist, what a bunch of morons.
Please do not bother me anymore, the virus is modified to have HIV properties, the indians retracted the paper to have it updated and republish it.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 21:46 utc | 246

@dorje Nothing will happen to Caucasians, they all have very mild symptoms according to the Germans and Belgians.
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/109159/2019-nCoV-offenbar-schon-bei-sehr-leichten-Symptomen-uebertragbar?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
East Asians on the other hand have a problem; 25% of the infected in China need intensive care.

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 21:56 utc | 247

Ethnic Bio-Weapon Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30ZKprLSkI&t=2480s

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 22:25 utc | 248

Kids with new toys in early January, kids with new toys in early February… will we see cute kids with new toys in March? What will be their playground next?
I don’t like the new toys I appear to be seeing, neither to I like seeing rushing kids with scissors in their hands.
Ask yourself if this is the best time to surrender or conjure your scepticism.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Feb 4 2020 22:30 utc | 249

Latest update total nation-wide accumulated figures till 020-02-04 16:36 (Beijing Time):
20,530 confirmed (incl. 2,788 in critical conditions), of which 13,522 in Hubei (6,384 in Wuhan).
426 deaths, of which 414 in Hubei (313 in Wuhan)
718 recovered/cured, of which 397 in Hubei (306 in Wuhan)
23,214 suspected cases
Hubei province (incl. Wuhan) account for about:
66% of the total confirmed cases, about 3% more than my last update (02/02)<---Due to the increasing testing capacity. - 97% of the death.
55% of the recovered/cured <---Early diagnosis and early treatment in the rest of the country shows the better recovery/cure rate. <--- Dr. Li Lanjuan, senior expert of National Health Commission (NHC), academian of CAS, explains the reasons for the high death rate in Hubei directly from the hospital frontline in Wuhan: a). As 2019-nCoV epicenter, patients mostly concentrate in Hubei/Wuhan; b): Lack of medical staff; c). The influenza season right now also contributes to the increases of infected patients.
<-- Other reasons : patients are hospitalised in over 20 hospitals, which makes the work of the critical care specialist teams less efficient.
<--- Number of recovered/cured has surpassed that of the death for the third consecutive day.
Dr. Zhong Nanshan, leader of NHC’s team of senior experts, says till now the death rate of confirmed cases is about 2.3%, of course, the death rate in Wuhan is much higher than that of the rest of the country, due to its concentration of 2019-nCoV patients,
The death rate of 2019-nCoV of confirmed cases is lower than that of SARS, H7N9、MERS (30%+)、H5N1(40%), but higher than normal flu. However, all need to keep the guard up /on high alert.
Didn’t know that The 2009 swine flu/H1N1 infected 59 million Americans, 265,000 hospitalized , and 12,000 death. Did MSM go hysteria as with nCoV? Did any country evacuate its citizens from US?

Posted by: lulu | Feb 4 2020 23:30 utc | 250

@lulu Did swine flu get 25% of infected into intensive care as in China with nCov?
Stop comparing this to regular flu, this is an ethnic bio-weapon targeted at China with the aim of isolating and collapsing Chinese society. #Wolfowitz_Doctrine

Posted by: dave | Feb 4 2020 23:41 utc | 251

@all
The researchers wrote an article suggesting it appears to them – as virology researchers – that the structure and composition of the virus samples would not likely appear in nature. They see this stuff all the time, and they explained in relatively clear and straightforward language why they believed this. The paper never indicates intent to make that determination quantitative. It is intended as a pre-study review, and these are common in scientific literature. A paper like this one is intended to suggest a more exhaustive and quantitative analysis may prove fertile ground for important scientific discovery and insight. They do not have any obligation to make their point quantitatively, and any suggestion they have somehow failed in not doing so is misplaced. More importantly, their failure to make the point quantitatively does not suggest they are wrong. It is of course possible the virus has occurred naturally. The researchers said it is far more likely it was engineered, and as best I am able to understand what has been written and all of the criticisms of it, the researchers have made their point. They made it swiftly, and now they have cut and run in the face of a tsunami of criticism, none of which directly addresses the underlying implications of the multiplicity of coincidence, which if I understand it correctly is at the crux of their informed observation. I have been unable to reach any of them to date.
The largest and most heavily enforced quarantines and martial law the world has ever experienced are taking place. World leaders have engaged in some pushing and shoving over the issues. Please have a little sympathy for the researchers in India…and for Zero Hedge staff as well. Maybe they’re all dead wrong, maybe they’re all stupid. If they’re not they’re sticking their necks out, and people don’t usually do anything of the kind.
Be well.

Posted by: Bruce | Feb 4 2020 23:49 utc | 252

@dave
“Apparently you have no clue about math and probabilities;”
Apparently…
The real thing is that you are wrong because you only knows the most basic principle but you believes it’s enough, because you have no practical or professional experience.
So you takes as a universal principle that, for instance when playing dices, it is more probable to get only one ace than two.
Guess what? Two aces are the most probable outcome…
….if twelve dices were launched.
Everyone knows that the basic probability for an ace is not very high, only 1/6th.
But there was 12 opportunities to get one. Therefore the most probable outcome was two aces.
If the length of RNA of HIV plus the length of all ncov inserts (which are many more than the four) does provide a lot of opportunities for coincidences, then 4 hits is more probable than only one hit.
Look: you did not correctly understand how randomness is running here. By the way, You were speaking about morons…

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 5 2020 0:56 utc | 253

—> Huanggang and Xiaogan (as predicated @123), both neighbouring Wuhan, see their confirmed cases increase to 1,422 and 1,120 respectively, 19 and 17 deaths, and recovered/cured 41 and 4 respectively.
<--- The numbers of confirmed cases in Hubei will continue to rise in next two or three days. ---> According to NHC’s press conference, the shortest average stay at the hospital is 5-day in Hainan, the longest average stay is 12.75-day in Guangdong, and the country-wide (excl. Hubei) average stay is 9-day . It shows the effectiveness of the treatment.
The average stay is about 20-day in Hubei due to 1). more severely infected patients; 2). extra stricter requirement in Wuhan: patients still need to stay at hospital for 10 to 12 days for observation after two negative nucleic acid tests.
—> During the preliminary lab tests, professor Li Lanjuan’s team has found that Arbidol in 10-30 times molar solution and Darunavir in 300 times molar solution can inhibit viral replication.
—> Designated Huoshenshan Hospital is taking confirmed critical nCoV patients today.
—> Wuhan converting exhibition venues into temporary hospitals. The three mobile hospitals will offer 3,400 beds to treat confirmed patients with mild symptoms.
—> Number of patients received at fever outpatient clinics declining. As of Monday, fever outpatient clinics across the country had accepted 220,865 people, 16,710 fewer than the previous day, down by 7%.

Posted by: lulu | Feb 5 2020 1:03 utc | 254

—> 6 Wuhan officials disciplined for shirking duties. Two of them are removed from their posts immediately.
—> PH thanks China for face masks, offer of medical information on nCoV.
Iran has sent 1 million masks to China. Pakistan, Belarus, Turkey, EU all donated medical supplies to Wuhan. Russia sent a plane of fully loaded aid when flying in to evacuate Russians Wuahn.
Trump claimed US to send aid to China, and till now we haven’t see anything and, of course, we don’t expect it either.

Posted by: lulu | Feb 5 2020 1:14 utc | 255

Here is a question to @LULU:
Which day of January, ordinary peoples of Wuhan began to behave in order to prevent virus transmission? Which day 99% of them did?
These are very useful data to understand the current evolution of the numbers.
Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 3 2020 18:37 utc | 211
—————————————————-
So far, I can say this: on 31/12/2019, state-owned CCTV and media reported there were 27 cases of viral Pneumonia of Unknown Etiology in Wuhan.
Unfortunately, it seems neither Wuhan government nor the public took it seriously enough, and it was much later when the ordinary people started to wear masks.
I am trying to digging out more info to reconstruct the timeline of the breakout of nCoV in Wuhan. It will take some time because it involved lots of factors and actors in the whole process. I hope to provide much more data in coming days regarding your question.

Posted by: lulu | Feb 5 2020 1:40 utc | 256

The strangest thing I find about the coronavirus is the MSM/government’s almost prescient jihad on ‘disinformation’ way too early in the outbreak to make sense. Doesn’t it feel like we’re being Skripal’d here?
It’s like the government(s), research labs and Big Pharma knew in advance that their narrative would be weak, so they have to keep fighting the good fight against that horrible ‘disinformation’ while dragging their feet and continuing to providing NOTHING of real substance about nCoV? Wash your damn hands? Really?
Yeah, I could see this as a massive screw-up that got loose, but not specifically from bioweapons development. Wishful thinking, I know.
One of those disinformation ‘conspiracy theories’ suggested that the odd nCoV characteristics were actually part of an effort to develop a vaccine for coronaviruses – something Wuhan Institute for Virology and Chinese Academy of Science are intensely interested in yet have not been able to develop. Messing around with the S-protein to enhance its function may have been just such an attempt.
The idea, of course, isn’t to make a more lethal live frankenCoV, but to produce some kind of vaccine that would stimulate your immune system to produce antibodies to existing coronaviruses. And how do they test vaccines like that in China? Yup – Chinese. Their vaccine not only didn’t work to protect against coronaviruses, but had the unfortunate and unexpected effect of spreading beyond the vaccinated as nCov and leaving everyone infected with less resistance to all other influenza.
Nobody likes the idea of bioweapons, but oh well… what can anyone do to stop those psycho freaks from trying.
But screwing up a vaccine and having it get in the wild, live and infectious and weakening your immune system? Holy hell. It would be like a gift from heaven for anti-vaxxers. They were right – those things are dangerous as hell. See how the ‘disinformation’ jihad would make so much sense? What WOULDN’T governments do to hide a vaccine screw-up?
Who would ever trust their government health ‘experts’ or Big Pharma again? They don’t have much credibility now. WHO and (in the US) the CDC? Those guys would be living in their cars and panhandling for change to by their next fix of fentanyl and a 40 oz. malt liquor to take the edge off. At least until angry citizens were able to hunt them down for some vaccine retribution.
And the answer to nCoV if it was a vaccine gone wrong is… wait for it… ANOTHER vaccine they’re desperately trying to develop against that. [sigh]

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 5 2020 1:43 utc | 257

PavewayIV @257:

The strangest thing I find about the coronavirus is the MSM/government’s almost prescient jihad on ‘disinformation’ way too early in the outbreak …

Yeah, there’s that … but the timing of the outbreak is also suspicious.
1) The ARAMACO IPO was done just before the outbreak.
Drop in Chinese economic activity has caused a drop in oil prices. Anyone aware of energy markets could’ve anticipated this.
2) Trump suddenly agreed to a “Phase I” trade deal with China just after the outbreak started.
Now China is saying that they will have difficulty meeting trade obligations.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 5 2020 1:58 utc | 258

Some interesting further reading.. and interesting names turn up.. John Bolton, Bill Gates.. vaccine anyone? ;> Quote: “October 18th the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, in conjunction with the World Economic Forum and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, brought together “15 leaders of business, government, and public health” to simulate a scenario in which a coronavirus pandemic was ravaging the planet. Major participants were American military leadership, and certain neocon political figures.
The Chinese were not invited.
The very next day…
300 US military personnel arrived in Wuhan for the Military World Games on October 19.
The first coronavirus case appeared two weeks later, on November 2.
Keep in mind that the Coronavirus incubation period is 14 days. So, fourteen days later…
The first occurrences in December appeared.. ” https://metallicman.com/laoban4site/was-the-2020-wuhan-coronavirus-an-engineered-biological-attack-on-china-by-america-for-geopolitical-advantage.htm

Posted by: BarrieV | Feb 5 2020 2:42 utc | 259

@Bruce252
. A paper like this one is intended to suggest a more exhaustive and quantitative analysis may prove fertile ground for important scientific discovery and insight.
Like their article did, you are making here an unsubstantiated statement. Furthermore your statement is most probably wrong. Papers whom real purpose is only to offer fertile hypothesis aren’t usual. For that reason, and also because they must justify the lack of serious demonstration, they always explicitly introduce that they don’t intend more than presenting an interesting hypothesis. Furthermore the claims are always conditional but for the substantiated ones.
The article made many unsubstantiated claims. They wanted to be believed, they weren’t not offering hypothesis but truth which could not be checked.
They do not have any obligation to make their point quantitatively, and any suggestion they have somehow failed in not doing so is misplaced.
They had this obligation because they created it when they claimed “TINA”, which is an implicit claim that we had the obligation to believe them. Your defense of them is irrelevant.
Would you defend Steve Bannon when he (Qanon) says “Trust the plan” and never give any proof?
“More importantly, their failure to make the point quantitatively does not suggest they are wrong. “ It does strongly suggest they are not serious scientists but some kind of fake news peddlers. This indirectly very very strongly suggests that the news is fake.
a tsunami of criticism, none of which directly addresses the underlying implications of the multiplicity of coincidence,
The reason is that, because of lack of computation, there was no implication to address. See my comment 253 to @dave which explains why it could be that 4 coincidences was actually a more natural outcome of randomness than 1 coincidence was.

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 5 2020 3:16 utc | 261

@255
Yeah sure, the country with an appalling track record at responding to predictable domestic hurricanes definitely has the capacity to help others experiencing disasters.

Posted by: JW | Feb 5 2020 4:12 utc | 262

@lulu 256
Thanks for replying
I understand it would take much work to reconstruct the timeline.
I don’t want to disturb your current personal timeline. I would be happy enough with only the approximate day that “it was much later when the ordinary people started to wear masks”
Perhaps it’s a day you remember?

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 5 2020 4:18 utc | 263

Parisian Guy@261 – “See my comment 253 to @dave which explains why it could be that 4 coincidences was actually a more natural outcome of randomness than 1 coincidence was.
OK, I got one for you. Please help explain this… I don’t know… FIFTH coincidence?

Ibalizumab (trade name Trogarzo) is a non-immunosuppressive humanised monoclonal antibody that binds CD4, the primary receptor for HIV,[2] and inhibits HIV from entering cells.[3] It is a post-attachment inhibitor, blocking HIV from binding to the CCR5 and CXCR4 co-receptors after HIV binds to the CD4 receptor on the surface of a CD4 cell. Post-attachment inhibitors are a sub-class of HIV drugs called entry inhibitors.

Granted, the CCR5 and CXCR4 binding are suppose to be inhibited for HIV in Trogarzo, not enhanced for chemokine signaling like nCoV. Not sure how that’s related, yet I wonder if they did that with the same gp120 trick that nCoV uses? Nah… coincidence.

“We congratulate TaiMed for progressing ibalizumab further in development and bringing this important drug one step closer to approval,” said Dr. Ge Li, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of WuXi PharmaTech. “WuXi is proud to serve as a gateway for developing novel biologics in China. Our integrated biologics discovery, development, manufacturing and testing service platform provides our customers with a seamless solution to bring their biologics products to the market globally and in China.”

TaiMed is a Taiwanese company that created ibalizumab. WuXi is a Chinese Soros-owned company (Yay!) that manufactures the antibody. Been in use in China for a few years (2015?). Approved for use for multi-drug resistant HIV in the US in 2018.
[sigh] I know… coincidence that Corona chan ‘enhancement’ and franken-antibody Trogarzo think alike.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 5 2020 5:02 utc | 264

Sorry, forgot to dox WuXi
WuXi AppTec (Wuhan)Co.,Ltd
I reccommend their Viral Vector Production Platform® – Rapid Path to First in Human with greater predictability.
They don’t seem to be too close to the wet market, so probably nothing to this.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 5 2020 5:15 utc | 265

quoting @PaveWayIV “a vaccine gone wrong”
Nobody is going to inject a novel (new and advanced) virus in a human that is being test vaccinated. Testing BOTH new vaccines AND new viruses (at the same time) they do that on monkeys.
quoting @PaveWayIV “test vaccine weakening your immune system”
Chinese are more susceptible to nCov than Caucasians, the test-vaccine gone wrong theory did not make ALL Chinese more susceptible to nCov, it could only (theoretically) make the test volunteers more susceptible (because of weakened immune system).
There goes your theory about test vaccine gone wrong, that could only have had an effect on the tested individuals thus weakening their immune system not on a whole society.
In China there were drones spreading the Swine Flu on farms in 2019. Wouldn’t that be possible with nCov too?
Falun Gong comes to my mind, the Japanese Aum cult went to Africa to get their hands on Ebola (they failed), they did use Sarin in the Tokyo subway in 1995.

Washington is in bed with the Falun Gong cult, Iranian MEK cult, Turkish Gülen cult. The MEK (in collaboration with Israel and Washington) assassinated Iranian nuclear scientists. The Gülen cult, backed by Washington and leader living in USA, were involved with the Turkish coup attempt a few years ago. Turkey had been demanding the extradition of the Gülen cult leader from Washington because of terrorism charges (before the coup attempt and after the coup attempt)
“Former practitioners of Falun Gong told NBC News that believers think the world is headed toward a judgment day, where those labeled “communists” will be sent to a kind of hell, and those sympathetic to the spiritual community will be spared. Trump is viewed as a key ally in the anti-communist fight, former Epoch Times employees said.”
“Devout practitioners of Falun Gong “believe that Trump was sent by heaven to destroy the Communist Party.””
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
“Bolton has also long backed a cultlike Iranian opposition group, the Mujahideen-e Khalq, or M.E.K., which has been held responsible for the murder of multiple American military personnel, a kidnapping attempt of a U.S. Ambassador, and other violent attacks in Iran before the 1979 revolution. ”
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/john-bolton-cheerleader-for-the-mek/
Ethnic Bio-Weapons Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30ZKprLSkI&t=2480s

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 5:53 utc | 266

Russian genetic material is being harvested all over the country, purposefully and professionally, President Vladimir Putin has said, possibly hinting at the US Air Force’s earlier move to acquire Russian tissue samples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txu6w_UypwA

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 5:59 utc | 267

@PaveWayIV does not want to hear about USA being involved with biological warfare, yet his country has a history of Nuclear, Biological and Chemical warfare (Japan,North Korea,Vietnam) and syphilis experiments on blacks and Central experiments against their consent.
PaveWayIV does not know about the Japanese Aum cult going to Africa to get their hands on Ebola (they failed), they did use Sarin in the Tokyo subway in 1995.
PaveWayIV does not want to hear about Washington be in bed with Falun Gong, Mek and Gülen cults who do Washington’s geopolitical bidding.

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 6:07 utc | 268

@Parisian Guy
The inserts are too short the debunkers say, it resembles many different organisms not just HIV, yet they did not look at the clinical properties of the virus, according to doctors the immune system gets downregulated before it infects the cells which is similar in mechanism to HIV.
You are just another westerner not wanting to believe their civilization is involved in biological warfare.

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 6:23 utc | 269

@Parisian Guy
“This paper has been withdrawn by its authors. They intend to revise it in response to comments received from the research community on their technical approach and their interpretation of the results. If you have any questions, please contact the corresponding author.” https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v2

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 6:45 utc | 270

@dave 270
The fact that they retracted is more to do with official ‘peer review’ rather than pure substance is it not? Everybody and their brother attacked them.
Anyways, the truth will out: In an exclusive interview given to Geopolitics and Empire Dr. Francis Boyle, who drafted the Biological Weapons Act, has given a detailed statement admitting that the 2019 Wuhan Coronavirus is an offensive Biological Warfare Weapon and that the World Health Organization (WHO) already knows about it.
He sticks to the claim the virus escaped from Wuhan level 4 and was further weaponized after being stolen from Winnipeg, canada l4. Boyle is a professor of International Law.
Even Senator Cotton is crapping on the ‘wet market’ as the source of the outbreak noting many early diagnosists showed sufferer’s had not been to the market.
Thinks are looking grim for China as Shanghai will peak in about 10-14 days. The numbers keep going up and are religiously cited yet everyone knows China is lying and media is starting to put out adds confirming cremations were done straight from the hospital without identification or death records.
There are videos of hospitals circulating that show full body bags in waiting rooms with patients lying in gurneys 4 ft away. I’m guessing they are overwhelmed and staff are exhausted and breaking down (many videos of people losing it and screaming, crying, etc).
Economic: it is just beginning as Hyundai shut its line down in s.korea, no sub-component=no cars. The cost of that is going to be huge and they will have to temporarily lay off staff. Large firms are dumping China and employees are leaving; as they leave quarantine in 14 days they will start to hit the talk shows.
This is going to go on and on and on.

Posted by: dorje | Feb 5 2020 8:43 utc | 271

A good article but there is something I definitely do not agree with:
“No military will develop a weapon that kills only 2% of those affected by it.”
If the Intention is to cause economic Damage, then the longer a person remains alive the better – he/she is consuming resources. Apparently 25% of patients require intensive care.
This is part of the logic behind cluster bombs.
Plus. the longer a patient lives, the more other People are infected. Who in their turn will also consume resources.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 5 2020 14:50 utc | 272

That’s because you’re an idiot. Of course this is a bio weapon. The official numbers of deaths, recoveries, infected and all that are all lies.
It’s killing 16% of those who catch it so far.

Posted by: Someone | Feb 5 2020 15:02 utc | 273

The writer asserts that this cannot be a bio weapon because the mortality is allegedly low and because it allegedly does not spread easily.
Even without challenging these assertions, it is clear that this is a bio weapon, if you assume that the goal of the planners is to inflict economic damage.
A large part of the economy is shut down and will be for quite a while to come.
The author makes the mistake of assuming that the purpose of the weapon must be to kill people.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 5 2020 15:16 utc | 274

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 5:59 utc | 267
It might be a Putin obsession.
There is no “Russian” genetic material in the Russian Federation. There are some 100 languages spoken in Russia and even more ethnic groups.
They have mixed for centuries, emigrated (to the US) etc. Dschingis Khan left a lot of Mongolian DNA which you could guess looking at Putin. Lots of Germans left their imprint, too. Never mind Napoleon’s army.
For a group to distinguish themselves genetically so they can be identified you need seclusiveness and/or inbreeding. To try to develop a virus that gets only certain groups would be a fool’s errand (in the case of the US they would get a lot of their own citizens, whatever.)
It is probably not a good idea to eat the meat of wild animals as evolution has made them resistant to most viruses they carry.
MERS is connected to camels.
And it is not poor people’s problem. The meat of wild animals is very expensive in Chinese markets I am told.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 5 2020 15:23 utc | 275

clickkid
Yeah. If it’s a weapon, it’s an economy-killing weapon.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 5 2020 15:35 utc | 276

Your as wrong as it gets, MoA. The mortality rate exceeds 15%. Containment may slow its advance but can’t prevent it. Better reevaluate your bad advice.

Posted by: Bernie | Feb 5 2020 16:01 utc | 277

Asians are *not* more susceptible to nCOV. The “study” reporting this covered 5 dead people – 1 of which was Asian.
One single study subject does not represent multiple billions of Asians.
Secondly, people focusing on the November timeline are deluded. 14 of the first 41 cases had zero association of any kind with the market.
The reality is that nCOV was almost certainly already circulating for months before November 2019. Since 88% of the dead are men over 60 with existing health problems – it is not at all surprising that nCOV was not detected as a serious health issue for some time.
Secondly, prior to the development of a genetic test in mid January 2020 – there was no way to tell if a pneumonia patient was nCOV or something else. Now that testing has started for the less critical, it would be very surprising if the death rate doesn’t go down significantly.
The measures being taken are reasonable – not because nCOV is a serious risk now, but that it could mutate into something worse. Until it is clear that this isn’t the case, it makes sense to try hard to slow the spread, since its infectiousness is quite high.
If anything, if you’re not over 60 and/or have serious health conditions, you’re better off getting it now – while it is still just a flu for the normal health types, rather than avoiding it and potentially getting it after might mutate to something worse.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 5 2020 16:06 utc | 278

DEBUNK: WUHAN CORONAVIRUS IS NOT A BIOWEAPON!
The genome of the 2019-nCoV virus has been claimed to come from four different sources:

  1. Bat coronavirus similar to bat_SL-CoVZC45
  2. Spike glycoprotein gene from human SARS
  3. pShuttle-SN vector used in virus labs
  4. HIV-like inserts in the spike glycoprotein

Points 2, 3 and 4 are wrong!
I analyzed the two claims made about inserts.
James Lyons-Weiler claimed that the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV is most similar to the SARS spike protein and not to the SARS-like coronavirus in bats. This is not true. The Chinese article published in The Lancet records a 80.2% match between the spike protein of 2019-nCoV and Bat_SL-CoVZC45 but only 76.2% between 2019-nCoV and SARS. This level of similarity is also shown in the sequence alignment presented in the Indian paper.
James Lyons-Weiler also claims that the 2019-nCoV virus has a unique sequence about 1,378 bp (nucleotide base pairs) long that is not found in related coronaviruses. He published the sequence online. He also claimed that the sequence contains the pShuttle-SN expression vector, although he now admits that the gene match is flawed; pShuttle-SN contains the whole gene for the SARS spike glycoprotein.
Comparing the 2019-nCoV genome to bat_SL-CoVZC45 or to SARS, as an Indian group has done in their now withdrawn paper shows that this is not the case. The genomes and the proteins are a close match and align well, except for the 4 to 7 amino acids long inserts.
The Indian preprint also makes a convincing case that the inserts originate from the HIV genome or from the database of different sequenced HIV genomes. The odds for finding a particular 6 amino acids long sequence in any particular spot in a protein are about one in 64 million. Finding four such sequences in a virus with less than 10,000 base pair or three in the GP120 envelope glycoprotein with only 480 amino acids is statistically impossible, even if one is searching an online database with hundreds of variations of the gene. The paper however makes the mistake of comparing 2019-nCoV to SARS, when in fact it is most related to SARS-like bat virus bat_SL-CoVZC45 or bat_SL-CoVZXC21.
I compared the 2019-nCoV spike protein to bat_SL-CoVZC45 by manually aligning the amino acids. The HIV-like inserts seen when comparing to SARS are no longer there. 2019-nCoV has naturally evolved and mutated from bat_SL-CoVZC45 or some common ancestor. There is a large difference in the proteins starting at position 483. bat-SL-CoVZC45 is missing a section that is present in both 2019-nCoV and SARS. Nothing was inserted here either.
Copy this into a real text editor if you want to see the alignment.

—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
MFVFLVL-LPLVSSQCVNLTTRTQLPPAYTNSFTRGVYYPDKVFRSSVLHSTQDLFLPFFSNVTWFHAIHVSGTNGTKRFDNPVLPFNDGVYFASTEKSN
MLFFLFLQFALVNSQCVNLTGRTPLNPNYTNSSQRGVYYPDTIYRSDTLVLSQGYFLPFYSNVSW-YYSLTTNNAATKRTDNPILDFKDGIYFAATEHSN
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
IIRGWIFGTTLDSKTQSLLIVNNATNVVIKVCEFQFCNDPFLGVYYHKNNKSWMESEFRVYSSANNCTFEYVSQPFLMDLEGKQGNFKNLREFVFKNIDG
IIRGWIFGTTLDNTSQSLLIVNNATNVIIKVCNFDFCYDPYLSGYYH-NNKTWSIREFAVYSSYANCTFEYVSKSFMLNISGNGGLFNTLREFVFRNVDG
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
YFKIYSKHTPINLVRDLPQGFSALEPLVDLPIGINITRFQTLLALHRSYLTPGDSSSGWTAGAAAYYVGYLQPRTFLLKYNENGTITDAVDCALDPLSET
HFKIYSKFTPVNLNRGLPTGLSVLQPLVELPVSINITKFRTLLTIHRGDPMP–NN-GWTAFSAAYFVGYLKPRTFMLKYNENGTITDAVDCALDPLSET
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
KCTLKSFTVEKGIYQTSNFRVQPTESIVRFPNITNLCPFGEVFNATRFASVYAWNRKRISNCVADYSVLYNSASFSTFKCYGVSPTKLNDLCFTNVYADS
KCTLKSLTVQKGIYQTSNFRVQPTQSVVRFPNITNVCPFHKVFNATRFPSVYAWERTKISDCIADYTVFYNSTSFSTFKCYGVSPSKLIDLCFTSVYADT
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
FVIRGDEVRQIAPGQTGKIADYNYKLPDDFTGCVIAWNSNNLDSKVGGNYNYLYRLFRKSNLKPFERDISTEIYQAGSTPCNGVEGFNCYFPLQSYGFQP
FLIRFSEVRQVAPGQTGVIADYNYKLPDDFTGCVIAWN—TAKQDVGNYF–YRSHRSTKLKPFERDLSSDENGVRTLSTYD—FNPNVPL——-
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
TNGVGYQPYRVVVLSFELLHAPATVCGPKKSTNLVKNKCVNFNFNGLTGTGVLTESNKKFLPFQQFGRDIADTTDAVRDPQTLEILDITPCSFGGVSVIT
—-EYQATRVVVLSFELLNAPATVCGPKLSTQLVKNQCVNFNFNGLKGTGVLTDSSKRFQSFQQFGKDASDFIDSVRDPQTLEILDITPCSFGGVSVIT
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
PGTNTSNQVAVLYQDVNCTEVPVAIHADQLTPTWRVYSTGSNVFQTRAGCLIGAEHVNNSYECDIPIGAGICASYQTQTNSPRRARSVASQ-SIIAYTMS
PGTNTSLEVAVLYQDVNCTDVPTTIHADQLTPAWRIYATGTNVFQTQAGCLIGAEHVNASYECDIPIGAGICASYHT–ASIL–RS-TSQKAIVAYTMS
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
LGAENSVAYSNNSIAIPTNFTISVTTEILPVSMTKTSVDCTMYICGDSTECSNLLLQYGSFCTQLNRALTGIAVEQDKNTQEVFAQVKQIYKTPPIKDFG
LGAENSIAYANNSIAIPTNFSISVTTEVMPVSMAKTSVDCTMYICGDSIECSNLLLQYGSFCTQLNRALSGIAIEQDKNTQEVFAQVKQIYKTPPIKDFG
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
GFNFSQILPDPSKPSKRSFIEDLLFNKVTLADAGFIKQYGDCLGDIAARDLICAQKFNGLTVLPPLLTDEMIAQYTSALLAGTITSGWTFGAGAALQIPF
GFNFSQILPDPSKPSKRSFIEDLLFNKVTLADAGFIKQYGDCLGGISARDLICAQKFNGLTVLPPLLTDEMIAAYTAALISGTATAGWTFGAGAALQIPF
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
AMQMAYRFNGIGVTQNVLYENQKLIANQFNSAIGKIQDSLSSTASALGKLQDVVNQNAQALNTLVKQLSSNFGAISSVLNDILSRLDKVEAEVQIDRLIT
AMQMAYRFNGIGVTQNVLYENQKLIANQFNSAIGKIQESLTSTASALGKLQDVVNQNAQALNTLVKQLSSNFGAISSVLNDILSRLDKVEAEVQIDRLIT
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
GRLQSLQTYVTQQLIRAAEIRASANLAATKMSECVLGQSKRVDFCGKGYHLMSFPQSAPHGVVFLHVTYVPAQEKNFTTAPAICHDGKAHFPREGVFVSN
GRLQSLQTYVTQQLIRAAEIRASANLAATKMSECVLGQSKRVDFCGKGYHLMSFPQSAPHGVVFLHVTYIPSQEKNFTTAPAICHEGKAHFPREGVFVSN
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
GTHWFVTQRNFYEPQIITTDNTFVSGNCDVVIGIVNNTVYDPLQPELDSFKEELDKYFKNHTSPDVDLGDISGINASVVNIQKEIDRLNEVAKNLNESLI
GTHWFVTQRNFYEPKIITTDNTFVSGNCDVVIGIINNTVYDPLQPELDSFKEELDKYFKNHTSPDIDLGDISGINASVVNIQKEIDRLNEVARNLNESLI
—-|–10|—-|–20|—-|–30|—-|–40|—-|–50|—-|–60|—-|–70|—-|–80|—-|–90|—-|-100|
DLQELGKYEQYIKWPWYIWLGFIAGLIAIVMVTIMLCCMTSCCSCLKGCCSCGSCCKFDEDDSEPVLKGVKLHYT
DLQELGKYEQYIKWPWYVWLGFIAGLIAIVMVTILLCCMTSCCSCLKGCCSCGSCCKFDEDDSEPVLKGVKLHYT
Top row: 2019-nCoV
Bottom row: bat-SL-CoVZC45

I was planning to write more on the probabilities and distributions of amino acid patterns, but the comparison 2019-nCoV to bat-SL-CoVZC45 makes the whole point mute. Unless someone wants to argue that 2019-nCoV was synthesized in the laboratory in 2016 and evolved into bat-SL-CoVZC45 in the wild by 2018.
More on my research site

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 5 2020 16:10 utc | 279

@somebody
Nothing will happen to Caucasians, they all have very mild symptoms according to the Germans and Belgians. East Asians on the other hand… 25% of infected in China need intensive care…
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/109159/2019-nCoV-offenbar-schon-bei-sehr-leichten-Symptomen-uebertragbar?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
The Belgian authorities compare the virus to a mild flu season. German guy gets infected with mild symptoms, after few days gets back to work. Dutch white elderly couple got infected by Chinese tourists on a bus in Finland, they too had very mild symptoms (they got interviewed and video taped, they seemed in a jolly mood and healthy).

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 16:17 utc | 280

@Petri Krohn Natural or not, the Japanese Aum cult wanted to get their hands on “natural” ebola, they failed, instead they used Sarin in the attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995. Maybe the Falun Gong is trying to imitate Aum in collaboration with Washington.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
“Former practitioners of Falun Gong told NBC News that believers think the world is headed toward a judgment day, where those labeled “communists” will be sent to a kind of hell, and those sympathetic to the spiritual community will be spared. Trump is viewed as a key ally in the anti-communist fight, former Epoch Times employees said.”
“Devout practitioners of Falun Gong “believe that Trump was sent by heaven to destroy the Communist Party.””
“Bolton has also long backed a cultlike Iranian opposition group, the Mujahideen-e Khalq, or M.E.K., which has been held responsible for the murder of multiple American military personnel, a kidnapping attempt of a U.S. Ambassador, and other violent attacks in Iran before the 1979 revolution. ”
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/john-bolton-cheerleader-for-the-mek/

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 16:25 utc | 281

@somebody Ethnic Bio-Weapons are 4 real according to this British documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C30ZKprLSkI&t=2480s

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 16:29 utc | 282

@all
As children we are taught about science in broad and idealistic fashion. Darwin published a work that has been ridiculed, questioned, accepted…and come into question again. Darwin’s work did not prove anything – it was an observation and suggestions of fertile grounds for further research. Scientists today are pursuing serious research into variants on the theory. Galileo was found “vehemently suspect of heresy” and died under house arrest. The scientists who theorized and wished to study the behavior of electricity in the body were persecuted and some were burned at the stake – and today we have no theory for the production of current within the body (it is current and only current by which electricity performs work, work is required to maintain and use the body), and we do not know anything about this most basic aspect of life itself. The source of life energy within you is more important to you than just about anything else, and no one is actually pursuing an answer to that question at this time because of what happened in Italy centuries ago. My mentor suffered an enlarged heart at age 47 and was pronounced terminally ill at the prestigious Mayo Clinic, as regeneration of heart tissue was believed impossible. I was informed of his fatal accident, just after he turned 80, by his then girlfriend of eight years. She was 28 when she made the call. There are a lot of things science does not begin to understand yet is swift to declare with apparent certainty.
We do not know how viruses transfer between hosts or from a non-host location. We do not know how they choose specific targets or invade them. We do not understand all the properties of their external structure. DNA is a theorized structure, just as atoms and molecules are. All of these things are understood and explained in terms of models. All of the above discussion is actually about models, regardless of word choice which may at times be somewhat imprecise – and therefore somewhat misleading.
The people who participate in this forum are very intelligent. But all of our lives, every one of us has been bombarded by a propaganda program from a seemingly innocuous source. Science doesn’t actually have a lot of certainty. Most everything in it is a representation, a model of some sort. Those models, and our perspectives of them, change over time. You are not going to get the kind of certainty from science as was promised by your third grade teacher. When a scientist makes an unpopular statement, it is not welcomed with open minded objectivity by a community of like minded super intellectuals in quest of truth. It is generally ridiculed, and there is frequently a massive component of argumentum ad hominem within that ridicule. Most people seem incapable of making argument without resort to some form of “name-calling.” Having the better argument is worthless if one lacks leverage within the scientific community that has access to publication.
And nobody is ever going to be in the position to look you in the eye and promise you with certainty that a virus is not going to get out of a particular container or facility. Accidents happen, perfection is unattainable, and viruses are smaller than your imagination can go.

Posted by: Bruce | Feb 5 2020 16:50 utc | 283

@Bruce accidents in Bio Labs leaking viruses to the outside world has never happened in history or maybe we don’t know about it.

Posted by: dave | Feb 5 2020 16:59 utc | 284

Petri Krohn@279 – Thanks for you work here, Petri. This is over my head, but I trust your analytical skills. James Lyons-Weiler seems like he knows this stuff – is he being sensational or is he wrong? Can you take a look at his most recent article

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 5 2020 21:25 utc | 285

Damn! Sorry about that. Thank God I don’t work in a BSL-4 lab. (Or do I??)

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 5 2020 21:28 utc | 286

Dave @284
Thank you. That’s quite right. We don’t know. Also the labs are a relatively new phenomenon, so we don’t have a lot of history. The Wuhan BSL-4 lab opened in 2017. But perhaps the most important point I should be raising is that things that have never happened before are going to happen. Game theory instructs us to look at both the probability of an event, and the payoff. How low does the risk have to be before we’re willing to pay the price if it does? Regardless of the origin of this coronavirus, we are getting a harsh lesson in how little we really know about viruses, their containment, treatment, and prevention. That result should better advise us as to how much risk we’re willing to take – but if this virus was engineered, no such lesson will be learned if the truth is then suppressed and the risks of bioengineering pathogens is never addressed as a result.

Posted by: Bruce | Feb 5 2020 21:38 utc | 287

I haven’t visited this thread since Comment #235. I’ve searched the page for the word ‘infection’ to see if anyone has made a comment referring to “Rate Of Infection” – ROF being the subject of this thread.
Yesterday’s edition of CGTN revealed that the ROF has been stable for two days. i.e. it stopped increasing for 2 days.
It’s too early to jump to conclusions but it looks as though b’s research-based optimism was justified, or soon will be…

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 6 2020 5:14 utc | 288

“Novel Coronavirus Defies Conspiracy Theories As Data Shows Its Coming Decline”
———————————————————
Even assuming that the data does show its coming decline (rate of infection), then this is just not true.
Let us define a ‘conspiracy theory’ as the belief that this is a bio weapon.
What is the purpose of a bio weapon? The author seems to think that the purpose of a bio weapon is to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible. He points out that the virus is not killing very many people very quickly.
This is not necessarily the purpose, or even very likely to be the purpose.
The purpose of any weapon in the hands of those using it, assuming a rational actor motivated by self-interest, is to force those at whom the weapon is directed to do things that they would not have freely chosen to do, in order usually to extract wealth or other concessions.
Even if the situation immediately start to improve, then this has been a big hit to the Chinese economy.
It could now be expected that the enemies of China who wield this weapon, will now attempt to extract concessions, with the implication that this or a similar weapon could be deployed again, should those concessions not be forthcoming.
The argument for the public would be: “The Chinese thought they had stamped it out, but it keeps reappearing”.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 6 2020 10:45 utc | 289

Just to make it clear – I do agree with the author that the Chinese seem to increasingly have this under control. He makes many other good points, but he makes a major mistake with this statement:
————————-
“The novel coronavirus is NOT a bioweapon. No military will develop a weapon that kills only 2% of those affected by it. A real bio weapon would also spread much faster.”
—————————–
The enemies of China do not wish to destroy China, for then they would lose a supplier of cheap goods. A supplier of cheap goods, who was largely content until 2013 to accept US Government debt (IOUs) in exchange for those goods.
The goal of China’s enemies is to bend her to their will, so that she engages in the world economy on their terms.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 6 2020 10:58 utc | 290

A couple of hours ago I wrote:
“The goal of China’s enemies is to bend her to their will, so that she engages in the world economy on their terms.”
Now I read this:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-slash-tariffs-some-us-imports-amid-economic-shock
That’S the way the world works folks. “Do as I say, or I will bash you over the head”
China still has middle and long-term advantage.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 6 2020 12:49 utc | 291

@ dave | Feb 5 2020 16:59 utc | 284 (leaks)
Dr. Francis Boyle says that all BSL-4 labs leak. Not my especiality, but I can attest that every rad-lab or nuke I’ve worked in leaked, in that people got exposures they were not supposed to get and that very small amounts of materials got out. Cobalt, PuO, but tiny amounts. Nothing to worry about…mostly when maintenance units changed the filters or sat, smoking pot, on the roof right above a cobalt source in a drywell under the building. They got nice tans.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 6 2020 14:02 utc | 292

@paveway 264
Not sure to have understood what your point is. I’m not in biochemistry.
My guess is you’re asking about similarities of tools used to perform the same function.
Well, it could be natural if the functions are absolutely necessary and there is only one or two different tools which could be invented.
If you need to seriously move something underwater, I only know of two possible tools: rudder&propeller or tail&fin. Since darwinian evolution seems unable to create rotating device, all marine animals have tail and fins. Therefore dolphins are similar to tuna and sharks, although there had been no genetic code inheritance between these species.
Thus, before saying “this similarity is unprobable”, it should be demonstrated that natural evolution had many other possibilities (viable tools) to perform the necessary function (bind the virus to the cell).

Posted by: Parisian Guy | Feb 6 2020 21:55 utc | 293

Parisian Guy@293 – Sorry. I realize I’m just chasing my own tail, here. Nobody is ever going to prove anything, however probable or improbable. Yeah – random natural mutation. I’ll concede and just go with that. It’s possible.
I’m tired, and I’m wasting everyone’s time here to speculate otherwise because there will never be a smoking gun. I’m not being facetious here. I’m bowing out of this one.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 7 2020 1:03 utc | 294

It’s official: Dr. Neil Fergusson, Imperial College of London, just stated the numbers are false. The real rate of infection, he states, is more along the lines of 50,000/day. Yes, 50,000 new cases per day!
World wide supply system shocks coming up shortly according to all realists. Get ready to see shelves empty.
Ro is obviously not 2.0, more like 3+.
Latest from New Eng J of Medicine: time line for those who get sick is really long as, around 7 days in, patients get a nasty secondary pneumonia. This is what eventually weakens people to the point where they die.
Tencent: massive company, had a data leak that indicated they have been running 2 sets of data. One indicated 50, 000 deaths so far and ~100k infected.

Posted by: dorjec | Feb 7 2020 10:57 utc | 295

@ dorjec
How do you square those Ferguson estimates with the combined total of 35 confirmed cases we have for Hong Kong and Macao?
These places receive massive numbers of Chinese visitors all the time, including from Wuhan. They are geographically part of China, but separately administered, and thus compile their infection figures separately.
I ma prepared to believe that the Chinese figures are somewhat too low, but not that high.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 7 2020 12:00 utc | 296

Cclikid 296
Dr. Ferguson, Imperial College-London, did a 10 minute interview on February 5. He answered about 5-6 questions. I believe he is in the process of compiling in order to release more information (my reading of the situation).
As I said, Tencent (massive company) showed data for several hours on February 3 that indicated very different numbers from what CCP has reported throughout this event. Dr. Ferguson, in essence, dispensed with China’s numbers.
That adds up to the picture I am seeing from dozens of sources. Ferguson was vague but indicated an Ro from 2.x to 3.x. Yes, quite vague.
The bottom line is China’s numbers are meaningless. The picture on the ground is awful: quarantine centers with toilets outside the building, no medicine, no doctors for 3 days. If they don’t staff them then the center become death camps where people are being isolated in order to minimize contagion. People are already resisting being taken with video’s showing 6 men packing people into vans. It is ugly on the ground in Wuhan: unexplained fires at night, crematorium running 24.7, bodies lying in clinics and hospital awaiting collection, lack of masks, medicine, gloves, etc.
Due to 2+million leaving Wuhan prior to Jan 24 (I believe that was the day the closed Wuhan’s exits) corona will spike in Shanghai, Guangdong, Shenzhen, Beijing, etc. It could very well be a repeat of Wuhan in all those cities starting next week.
Currently, Quarantine has been expanded to several provinces and 150million are now under martial law.
I wish there was good news and the disease rate was declining but that is not the case. The equation derived from Chinas’ data indicated a quadratic. Nope. The real data (Tencent Feb3 ~ 100,000+ infected, 80,000 possible, 25k dead) tends to indicate exponential growth. Cremation order (by govt), 24.7 cremations, overnight bonfires and video of piled up body bags tends to support this as well.
In the end, the WHO and CDC et al need to demand that the CCP give us real numbers (if they really have them) so that other countries can plan. Three dozen or more countries are having to quarantine citizens and need all the info they can get.
BTW: the time line is nasty. Those who get it and don’t shake it off tend to get pneumonia at day 7-10 which can lead to death. If they beat the pneumonia, the disease timeline can be 21-28 days. This is not conclusive data but an indicator of a virus with a potential long and nasty recovery for some. The air quality is China is a problem to begin with. I tend to arrive at the conclusion that the older are going to be hit particularly hard.
Further,

Posted by: dorje | Feb 7 2020 17:07 utc | 297

@ dorje
Should that scenario eventuate, then we are are facing a collapse of the world economy within the next several months, and that’s even before the virus spreads outside China to a great extent.

Posted by: clickkid | Feb 7 2020 19:34 utc | 298

People need to keep in mind just how viruses live: they infect a cell, then use the cell’s machinery to replicate. They have very little redundancy and repair mechanisms compared to more complex life forms – and they’re large RNA based, not DNA.
RNA is single strand, DNA is double strand. RNA-based life forms are far more susceptible to mutation; viruses in turn are incredibly susceptible to it.
It would not shock me if viruses pick up extra shit all the time in their normal life cycle.
nCOV is also apparently a really, really big virus – i.e. there’s lot of extra useless shit bound up in its bundle.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 7 2020 19:38 utc | 299

@ Posted by: dorje | Feb 7 2020 17:07 utc | 297
The problem with those Western doctors is that, no matter how well educated and experienced they are, at the end of the day they are not in the front line, they do not read Mandarin and they are reaching conclusions based on fragmentary and second-hand data.
Medicine is not hard science: it doesn’t matter how good you are, you’re not going to reach the correct conclusion/diagnosis just with pure logic and mathematical models. There are too many variables involved.
It’s too early to tell. This coronavirus could destroy China and wipe out the Han race. It could fizzle out. It can stay in the middle. We don’t know yet for the simple fact we still don’t have the complete data, and the epidemic has yet to stabilize.

Posted by: vk | Feb 7 2020 20:02 utc | 300