Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 26, 2020

2020 Presidential Election Thread 01

This thread is exclusively for comments on the 2020 presidential election.

Posted by b on February 26, 2020 at 14:53 UTC | Permalink

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Circe @99

Let me break it down for you, Circe.

Bevin is the Weinstein and Epstein shill. I linked to Jen's comment that describes that. Jen is a very well respected, long-time commenter at moa.

What do you think about pro-Bernie messages from a Weinstein and Epstein shill? Is Bernie so desperate that he needs money/votes from wealthy sex offenders?

Looking forward to your answer.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 13:30 utc | 101

Chuck D, hip hop rapper, will be performing at a massive Bernie Sanders rally to be held on Sunday, March 1st at the LA Convention Centre.

Chuck D Bernie Sanders

Bernie's Sanders campaign platform is the only one directly aligned with the Poor People's Campaign of the 60s led by MLK. Every other candidate pays only lip service and uses their speeches to it as a photop prop!

MLKs Poor People's Campaign

And it's aligned with the Poor People's Campaign of today carried forward by Reverend William Barber.

Mobilizing today's Poor People's Campaign

Bernie Sanders IS GENUINE.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 14:12 utc | 102

People know WEASEL PETE is not genuine. Watch this hillarious video of Pete trying to get photop with McDonald's workers protest and getting chased out with chants of Pete can’t be our president, where was $15 in South Bend?

He'll never live that moment down. It's REAL and defines his opportunistic shallowness!

Pete chased out


Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 14:26 utc | 103

@101 Jackrabbit


Is Bernie so desperate that he needs money/votes from wealthy sex offenders?

Are ou calling bevin a sex offender?

One has only to read @101 and your previous comment regarding bevin to know what you are leading up to here.

Because Weinstein AND Epstein are not supporting Bernie's campaign and never have! Epstein is dead and Weinstein in prison both where they belong! Your statement is tantamount to slander!

Is your vicious hatred of Bernie so desperate that you would smear a fellow blogger to score a point that is totally ridiculous and out of bounds?

Disgusting. You should be banned for this.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 14:43 utc | 104

The way Jackrabbit twisted bevin's support of Bernie Sanders to imply what he's implying once you read Jackrabbit's replies to bevin on previous page and his 101 here deserves to be condemned as totally unethical blogging. Of course I am justifiably outraged, as Jackrabbit is clearly smearing both Bernie and bevin with a sick and vicious lie!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 14:59 utc | 105

Circe, IMHO Jackrabbit is turning into a troll and you feed him. If he genuinely thinks that Bevin has a sweet spot for sex offenders, hm, he has a very primitive mentality. Actually, it makes a good fit with his "movement theory", "genuine populism" (he dropped that lately) etc. But in Bevin's case he simply tried to be maximally annoying.

Just ignore him/

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 28 2020 15:09 utc | 106

Circe | Feb 28 2020 13:12 utc | 100 Breathe Comrade C.

Let's assume a miraculous election and two shining figures of decency and ability ascend to the office of P and vP. The January sun beams down from Heaven, white doves flutter, the crowds cheer with lusty joy..

Everybody knows what will then take place.

Do you have plans for that eventuality? That's my key question. I do not doubt the character, good or not good, of any salient force in re, I assume the Good get 'lected.

So, since that is obvious, what will actually happen after the "correction" of the "flawed" election" of 2020 is obvious, since that, what does anybody reasonably expect the people to do, expect what will be the political effect of another "correction". I am interested in the delayed after-effects of the correction, not the 'lection.

("correction" was the term used by McCain and B41 to refer to the 22 November 1963 murder.)

garrison interview 5/27/1969 outlines the plot-line, see" We publish here a noteworthy interview Jim Garrison gave to a European publication on May 27, 1969, in which he draws attention to, among other things, the connection between the assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK. This remarkable interview with Jim Garrison was done about two months after Clay Shaw...
(Kennedys And King - Garrison Interview, "Some Unauthorized ...)

(we do not use gender-specific terms, very PC y'know... So we just call everybody, perverts or not, "Comrade"...kool!)

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 15:22 utc | 107

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 15:22 utc | 107

I'll just butt in and provide a link to the whole interview. Worth reading, IMHO.

This remarkable interview with Jim Garrison was done about two months after Clay Shaw was acquitted.

It is an interview with a European publication since, for reasons he notes, Garrison had given up doing such things with the American press.

PS: Clay Shaw - worth finding out who this Joker was dear reader of MoA.

Posted by: Tom_LX | Feb 28 2020 15:34 utc | 108

bevin's shills for sex offenders but that's OK because he supports Bernie?



Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 15:41 utc | 109

Thanks to comments @, this:

Posted by: juliania | Feb 28 2020 15:45 utc | 110

I had previously suggested on the last Democratic debate forum that the next one should be moderated by Native American leaders. Perhaps that idea generated the visit - I'd like to think so, but maybe giving myself too much credit on that.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 28 2020 15:48 utc | 111

: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 15:41 utc | 109

Comrade J, please be logical. If a Comrade is an axe-murdering pervert, and if that Comrade says it's 11 hours UTC, and it is 11 hours UTC, that Comrade is right. Similarly, I myself knew a guy who did 5 years for a cruel drug-fueled (as they say) murder. I saw that man save a child's life. Really, with my own eyes...and he had admitted the murder to me... Would you not permit the murderer to save a life? Obviously the value of an act or statement is independent from previous acts or statements...though they may sully the reputation - but that's another matter.

See my question (assume Bernie and Tulsi get 'lected...and assume the obvious correction post hoc > What happens then?

For extra credit (Friday Quiz) show how the dog and pony show over Assange ties into the mooted correction.

I would note that, for the sake of theatrical value, they won't use Dealey Plaza next time...

Wally notes the Bernie, Tulsi, and some others are offering themselves as martyrs. This is what we're seeing now.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 15:56 utc | 112

Comrades, in re the mooted" "correction" (above) and especially the Garrison interview, consider>
addendum quote from now - kindly tell us what's changed?

"FEELING THE BERN: It is far from a done deal, but a certain unease is seeping into the military-industrial complex: Bernie Sanders could be the next president.

“Industry insiders say the prospect of Sanders, one of Washington’s most vociferous critics of defense spending, becoming the Democratic nominee is setting off a rumble of uncertainty among contractors and their powerful political and military allies,” POLITICO’s Jacqueline Feldscher and your Morning D correspondent report.

Things aren't at panic levels yet, but the Vermont Independent's vows to redirect hundreds of billions of dollars in military spending to domestic programs and re-frame American foreign policy could pose an unprecedented threat to the status quo if Sanders wins the White House.

Says Eric Fanning, the president of the Aerospace Industries Association: “Most people expect the current defense budget is the high water budget, but obviously under a Sanders administration they anticipate calls for bigger defense cuts than they would get otherwise.” " (@ "2020 Watch")

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 16:06 utc | 113


I'm sorry, I should've been more specific.

I support Bernie - conditionally. But my denunciation of bevin's shilling for convicted sex offenders is ignored and minimized because bevin has provided the 'good service' of attacking my concerns about Bernie.

Perhaps all sex offenders and other bad characters will learn from my experience.

Epstein (or his estate), Weinstein, and others could just make a small contribution to Bernie's campaign! Then all is forgiven as fanatical Bernie supporters laud that contribution and minimize their prior misdeeds - misdeeds that they've never shown any remorse for.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 16:37 utc | 114

Ok Comrade, Kool - most everything is conditional anyway, or "circumstantial" (Marx etc). I'd add that it is in reality perceptional, and that conditional or circumstantial is slightly inaccurate.

My former associate, the life-saving murderer, did 5 years. He was convicted and served the time. Then he saved a kid's life. These are not related events.

You mention "convicted..."

And also merely "sex-offenders".

And also your experience. Sexual offenses are defined in Law, which changes...screwing a 12 year old is probably legal somewhere, Mississippi used to permit adult men to marry 12 years old girl...I believe. Now they may not... The point being that conflation of illegality with morality is silly. The sex stuff is part of the con game, an ultimate way to condemn, an ultimate way to blackmail...right outta Machiavelli's handbook. Laws change to suit the power-structure.

That all seems interesting, but also not relevant to the idea that's implied, that Bernie's for sale. People had the idea that Kennedy was also for sale. The mob sure thought so. Until he put his brother into the Justice Department. Like Hunter Thompson said, ya buy the ticket, ya take the ride.

Like Politico and Garrison say, Bernie's a martyr.

Like Comrade C says, we ought to vote for him.

Then, after the auto-da-fé....???

People really ought to see this as a "bit like mathematics" (VVP on Politics) and not as a moral question about desire.

When I worked on the Kennedy Campaign in 1960 (literature via bicycle) I did not know that I was unwittingly contributing to the creation of Circumstances that would lead to his murder... Now my eyes are open, and I am sure Bernie and Tulsi and many others also have their eyes open.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 17:03 utc | 115

Walter @115:

screwing a 12 year old is probably legal somewhere... The point being that conflation of illegality with morality is silly.

Now you've joined bevin as an apologist of sex offenders.

not relevant to the idea that's implied, that Bernie's for sale.

I'm not saying that Bernie's for sale. But you and bevin appear to be.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 17:12 utc | 116

Well, it seems as though Circe and Jackrabbit have become hysterical regarding the 'Bernie' fixation. I had a similar experience during the 2008 United States presidential election. I was on this somewhat obscure blog, and the people running it became fixated on the notion that Barack Obama was going to be the Saviour, and that everything depended upon getting him elected, or else (before the conventions, even). And I opined that the president is not very important in most respects, and the thing that was really needed was to repair the dreadful choose-one voting system so as to elect congresspeople who are not in thrall to the totally psychopathic eleets. One way to accomplish this would be to get the government to issue vouchers (for maybe $50/year) that could be spent to subscribe to not-for-profit news journals of their choosing. The other thing was to get rid of the eleet fronted party lock-in caused by choose-one voting. I have already shown a path to accomplishing this here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
2020 Presidential Election Thread 01

Presently, the best cure for this is 'simple positional voting', which I promote as 'ranked simple voting' (which sophisticated fools often confuse with the quite similar, yet far more unobviously complicated 'Borda method'). It uses precisely the same ballot design as RCV, so voters can simply check-off a box to indicate by which method they prefer their ballot to be tabulated.

The ranked ballots reflect the pattern: =/ 10 > 9 > 8 > ... 1 > 0 /=. There are ten ranked 'places', and voters can assign one candidate to each place, and each candidate assigned to a 'place' will be granted a corresponding number of 'points' (and they can also leave places blank if they prefer). Putting it very simplistically, the candidate with the largest total of points wins. And it turns out that it is quite easy to fairly combine the results of this ranked simple voting (RSV) with those of ranked choice voting. Eventually all the voters will abandon RCV and all its unobvious complexity.
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The proprietors of the blog I just mentioned went wacky insisting that Obama would save us, while I held the position that the president didn't matter very much, and the system itself was what needed to change. They became furious at me and actually banned me. Then, not too long after Obama did get elected, and salvation had somehow failed to materialize, they gave up and the blog disappeared. How sad.

And now it's all happening again, with people going nuts over a brand new presidential hero. Please, people get hold of your emotional relationship with these politicians before you lose your minds completely.

Posted by: blues | Feb 28 2020 17:22 utc | 117

Dear Comrade Jack, better check your meds... You're non logical today.

They make any law they want. Morality is independent of Law, though this is often confused.

Look up "apology"...I did not...please stick to reality and logic.

The implication that Bernie's for sale was an obvious implication of your post. Go read your own words.

It is clear, by the way, that Bernie is not for sale...and that why we may see both his election and the correction by the MIC. I implied he's not for sale. You implied he is - though I will grant that, since you seem to be having unclear reasoning you probably didn't realize it.

NB> ". The legal Age of Consent varies from 11 to 21 years old from country to country around the world. "

Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 17:22 utc | 118

Walter @118:

The implication that Bernie's for sale was an obvious implication of your post. Go read your own words.

You are nuts. I wrote:

Then all is forgiven as fanatical Bernie supporters laud that contribution

Bernie supporters are different than Bernie himself.

The legal Age of Consent varies from 11 to 21 years old from country to country around the world.

Weinstein and Epstein are convicted sex offenders.

Your attempt to excuse and minimize what they did is wrong and offensive.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 17:36 utc | 119

I just saw an ad by Michael Blommberg milking the Coronavirus like he just discovered the antidote and he's gonna be a billionaire miracle worker.

Bloomberg has offically already spent half a billion dollars on his effort to buy the primary election. There are at least 500,000 homeless people in America. You know what that means? That greedy, hungry for power bastard could have made 500,000 homeless people MILLIONAIRES. He's immoral.

Too bad for Bloomberg he's gonna lose cause unfortunately for him there are millions more poor and low-income working people than wealthy people who can't wait to come out and vote for Bernie Sanders who has given the Poor People's Campaign a national electoral platform.

Trump who also represents the rich will suffer the same fate as Bloomberg.


Aka: The Marie Antoinette Club. Let them eat cake!

Bernie, right time, right place to take them on to become THE PEOPLE'S PRESIDENT of the United States. Hashtag that!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 18:39 utc | 120

There's been a lot of ink spilled - but so far, Bernie has not polled higher than in 2016.
If his support is truly different this time around, wouldn't he be getting more Democratic caucus votes? Particularly after a Trump term as President?

Have we forgotten that Bernie ultimately lost in 2016 - not by superdelegate, but by not polling as high as HRC?

And while the competition in 2020 isn't HRC - the ability of the pack to poll more than Bernie in summation means a brokered convention. Which is what I pointed out, weeks ago, as the likely targeted outcome.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 28 2020 19:29 utc | 121

When Clear Corruption Isn't Corruption:

"'The Democratic Party Has a Problem': Bloomberg Hires Super Tuesday State Democratic Vice Chairs."

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 28 2020 20:04 utc | 122

2016 two candidates in race?

Posted by: Joe | Feb 28 2020 20:28 utc | 123

Okay, let's do some Campaign Astrology for all the dimwits voting for Biden and Bloomberg. I just dabble in it, no expert, but I know a big bad planetary aspect when I see it.

You know, Bloomberg deserves major karma for blowing already half a billion dollars on buying an election when there's so much need in the world AND to add insult to injury he's doing it to stop a candidate who wants to take from the very rich to give to the poor. Oh my! Well I have great news! He's headed for a karmic collision.

The planet of extremely bad karma SATURN is moving into Bloomberg's sign, Aquarius, right after mid-March and forming a square to Biden's sign, Scorpio. This is a very malefic aspect.

People under these two signs, Aquarius and Scorpio ie Bloomberg and Biden will experience obstacles, setbacks and challenges, create hidden enemies, and aging will be accelerated and serious health issues could emerge. Believe me, I know what I'm writing. Both my parents passed away from cancer with SATURN in their sign, my mother who was a Cappy, passed last May, right before Mother's Day. So now Saturn is moving from Capricorn into Aquarius.

So, if Democrats install one of these two, Bloomberg or Biden to be the nominee, their fate is sealed with them, and they will suffer a serious downfall with more Trump karma, because whichever, both Bloomberg or Biden, under the malefic aspects of Saturn WILL LOSE TO TRUMP.

Saturn's aspect to Bernie's Virgo will mostly have a neutral effect and he has some powerful help from Jupiter all year long and next year as well in areas of work, family and community support.

So Democrats can invest in more karma with Bloomberg or Biden or get rid of the Trump Karma with Bernie. If they align themselves with the politics of deception fear and greed their downfall is certain and they will deserve the karma they're investing in.

I won't say the election be a cake walk for Bernie; it will be a monumental fight, but Bernie has some great aspects going to defeat Trump.

So Democrats better align with the stars and not choose the path of yet more KARMA!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 20:29 utc | 124

@122 karlof1

Ergo, FREUDIAN SLIP at last Tuesday's debate.

When people show you who they are...

Believe them! This is a come to Jesus moment giving us A CLUE not to buy into DNC machinations or this candidate. This moment is straight out of Celestine Prophesy, a years long best seller worldwide, for a good reason.

Bernie Sanders is not bought. He wants to overturn Citizens United. No other Democrat will have the spine to get it overturned! RBG will no doubt retire from SCOTUS in the next 4 years latest! If Trump wins it's all over--corruption will rule for the rest of our lifetime with deep trouble imminent.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 21:11 utc | 125

Gonna be fun reading comments after November.
If the democratic party doesn't screw Bernie first then Trump will beat him like a drum.
Those "massive turnouts" at Bernie rallies pale in comparison to Trump's crowds.
All U.S. citizens will be screwed over once again.

Posted by: Fractional ownership | Feb 28 2020 21:17 utc | 126

If Martin Luther King were running for President today as the Democratic Socialist he was, the Democratic Party, black people in South Carolina and Houston Texas and in other parts where they're thinking of voting out of fear for Biden instead and the DNC would all be trying to stop MLK from becoming President.

If MLK were living when Obama became President, they would be on opposing sides of the Party. I discovered this article from a year ago:

Today is the day when many American politicians pretend to care about the life and legacy of Martin Luther King Jr, one of the wisest souls who attempted to save this sorry nation. Don’t fall for their scams.

While King did care about black and/or poor people in the United States and around the world, he was no American exceptionalist. “Don’t let anybody make you think God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world,” King once said.

He also criticized how Americans “have deluded ourselves into believing the myth that capitalism grew and prospered out of the Protestant ethic of hard work and sacrifice” when “the fact is that capitalism was built on the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and white, here and abroad”.

politicians MLK hypocrisy

If MLK were running for President today, Bernie Sanders would be the first person to endorse him. If MLK were alive today and not running for President, MLK would be the first to endorse Bernie. Bernie Sanders campaign would not seem radical to MLK.

How radical is this?

MLK would kneel for social justice

Democrats should hang their heads in SHAME.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 23:03 utc | 127

Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 17:36 utc | 119

Yeah, you seem to be irrational Comrade. Not any point in further attempts at logical dialogue, pity, pearls before - ah... well you understand ...

In effect I begin to assume, whatever the design, you and Comrade C are a pair of..."agents".


Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 23:47 utc | 128

circe @125:

> RBG will no doubt retire from SCOTUS in the next 4 years latest!

What makes you think a Republican-controlled Senate would approve any SCOTUS nominee from a President Sanders?

Posted by: corvo | Feb 29 2020 2:33 utc | 129

The words of Comrade Adeyinka Makinde>...Many unfortunately are still unable to ascertain the obeisance to the dictates of the Military Industry as being at the root of the attacks and smears mounted against the likes of Gabbard and Sanders, and as a result the mainstream media is able to revive the canard of the Kremlin-orchestrated undermining of American democracy.

The question now is how much longer will the insouciant masses keep falling for the same old ruse?"

Indeed. And after the "correction" what will they think? What circumstances will be perceived?

Posted by: Walter | Feb 29 2020 2:35 utc | 130

@129 corvo

Normally, I wouldn't bother with Jackrabbit's alias, but fyi, I kinda see the Senate changing blue.


So today, I watched Bill Maher who I hate to love, and he said something that already crossed my mind before hearing him utter it. So Bernie is pretty dynamic for his age and after a serious health scare, he's on a hectic schedule often speaking at rallies in two states in one day, and you know, flying around, eating fast food and maybe not getting the right amount of sleep, and he's handling it amazingly well, and, I KNOW HE'S AMERICA'S DAD AND TIO BERNIE and loveable OG, but people, PLEASE DON'T TOUCH BERNIE, especially with the COVID-19 flying around and his busy life lowering his immune system. DON'T TOUCH BERNIE! Please.

You can touch Biden and Bloomberg, but Bernie is too indispensible right now.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 29 2020 4:44 utc | 131

i think trump will be an easier target than the dnc. but then if he wins, bernie will face fdr level opposition from both parties. remember the businessman's plot, and smedley butler.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 29 2020 5:42 utc | 132

Walter #115

Thank you for your tireless persistence. The rabbits retort to your discourse in 115 left me floored. And then your next volley was excellent. I am gobsmacked but the tequila reviver was a treat.

I gather you are a python wrestler as recreation.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 29 2020 8:50 utc | 133

Circe #131

You can touch Biden and Bloomberg, but Bernie is too indispensable right now.

Why stop there Circe. I get that you admire Bernie but why leave Buttergig and (jackrabbit) Warren out of the loop.

Whats holding you back, spit on em is what I would do if ever I got close enough. I want to see that low life Biden grab another voter by the lapels as he did a month ago and then cop a great spit in the eye. Justice!

Now watch out as that discussion regarding 'the correction' could indeed catch up with the campaigners especially when some boeing charter needs a quick cabin air filter changeover between flights. Beets noisy ammo and messy stuff like coroners etc.

But of course they permanent state would never do THAT !

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 29 2020 9:12 utc | 134

Seems that TPTB of Russia do not like Biden. Apparently, Biden promised to South Carolina voters to appoint first female Black senator. That ignores several facts. It has been a long time since senators were appointed, and when they were, states were in charge. Nowadays governors fill vacancies when senators from their states vacate their seats, usually by not living through their elected terms. Next, one Black female who was elected as a Senator (from Illinois) endorsed him, another was a candidate this year (although did not survive an effective snipe from a possible future female Pacific Islander senator). And for the sake of those relatively obscure fact, RT made a story, and it got some circulation on Twitter (seemingly, RT did not start it).

Anyway, Biden may be more at risk of holes in the brain getting larger than coronavirus.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 29 2020 15:36 utc | 135

OYG, I forgot to close bold tag.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 29 2020 15:37 utc | 136

Piotr @135:

Biden promised to South Carolina voters to appoint first female Black senator.

No, he promised to nominate the first black female justice to the Supreme Court.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 29 2020 15:45 utc | 137

@Joe #121
2 candidates in the race in 2016 vs. many in 2020 shouldn't matter.
If Bernie is really energizing the base and winning - then turnout should be equal or better and Bernie should be polling equal or higher (absolute number of votes) than 2016.
If, on the other hand, the field is pulling off segments of Bernie's support - that would likely manifest as a reduction in Bernie's absolute vote count.
And if the goal is a brokered convention, the fragmentation of the base is the desired outcome.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 29 2020 17:13 utc | 138

Jackrabbit Feb 29 2020 15:45 utc There is a video. Yea, he probably meant SCOTUS, but he said Senate.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 29 2020 17:24 utc | 139

I noted this off topic contribution in the current thread.Rather than pollute that important discussion, here it is:

"" (my theory: he (Sanders)supports the Empire by herding discontent into the Democratic Party slaughterhouse)."

Among other recent theories from this fountain of rubbish is the "theory" that Epstein's death was faked and that he is currently hosting orgies in Israel.
Like the "sheepdog" theory it is based on nothing more than a compulsion to calm any opposition to the state-"Epstein wasn't murdered to protect powerful people. Nothing to see here move along"
"Sanders isn't part of a revolt of the Democrats' base. Nothing to interest anyone here. Move along."

I also note, on this page, that "Jackrabbit" describes me as an "Epstein and Weinstein shill". This is the lowest sort of smearing.
The reality is that the ruling class and its MSM opinion formers have manufactured a revival of lynch mob law by arguing that sexual offences are too dangerous to be processed by the normal procedures of legality, due process, the proper examination of evidence. And the principle that it is better that 99 guilty men go free than that one innocent be punished.
As the world knows this principle is reversed in the United States where, literally, millions of innocent people have been and are treated as guilty. This mass incarceration, incidentally, being one of the issues that Sanders's campaign is currently and properly raising as a primary issue.
My position that, despite its many faults, received theories of bourgeois legal probity are superior to mob rule in a society in which the state and the oligarchy mobilise lynch mobs, is not only simple, but-check out what is being done to Assange, an entirely innocent victim of sexual smears- uncontroversial.
The fact that JackRabbit extends his contemptible appetite for self justification by suggesting-without a scintilla of evidence- that I am guilty of the charges brought against, for example, Epstein tells us much more about Jackrabbit's character than any possible revelation. The disgrace that he attempts to smear Senator Sanders by association (" Is Bernie so desperate that he needs money/votes from wealthy sex offenders?) suggests that JR is unhinged. One wonders whether he is a Hillary clone.
We have all dealt with dishonest people, but it is never a pleasant experience, not even when awash in the cleansing ether of cyberspace.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 29 2020 17:46 utc | 140

bevin @140

Once again, bevin trots out the false claim that Epstein (and now Weinstein) are innocent victims.

But Epstein (and Weinstein) are convicted sex offenders.

Epstein is not a VICTIM, he was given a "sweetheart" deferred prosecution deal in exchange for pleading to a lesser charge.

It's the victims of Epstein's gang that have been denied justice. And no slight of hand by bevin will change that.

And it's not just about the morality of sexual relations with underage people - which some try to use to muddy the waters. Epstein and Gislaine trafficked these girls and threatened them. Along the same lines, defenders of Weinstein try to blame the victims but Weinstein did much worse than ask for sex in exchange for an opportunity, he raped women and conspired to obstruct justice.

That a shill-for-degenerates like bevin tries to shoot the messenger is typical. And I relish his disdain.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 29 2020 18:29 utc | 141


Damn you! Take your Weinstein/Epstein rant to the OTHER open thread!! You are polluting the discussion here!

Bernie Sanders does not take money from multi-millionaires and billionaires and has never been associated with those two! Your stupid rant has nothing to do with the Democratic primaries! Take this garbage somewhere else and stop polluting and poisoning this thread!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 29 2020 18:45 utc | 142

LOL. Well, it seems clear that "Circe" is NOT a woman after all.

I wonder if HE is even a progressive.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 29 2020 19:10 utc | 143

This a sort of repost, because my previous on the subject seem to me vaporized... It's the Greg Palast interview today on going underground (RT) and there Greg speaks to the rigging of elections, and specifically to funny business that liquidated over a million votes for the berener dude and put the female criminal on her losing streak. He seems to expect that they might (gasp!) do something like that next week...

Posted by: Walter | Feb 29 2020 19:11 utc | 144

@ Circe | Feb 28 2020 20:29 utc | 124

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 29 2020 19:14 utc | 145

@ uncle tungsten | Feb 29 2020 8:50 utc | 133 Thanks, Dude...

Saker has an essay about never mind ww3, it's ww4 already...and the overall looks to my eye like we'll be lucky ifn we ain't dead next November.

But assuming we are and that the Fates play nice, there's that "correction" looming...

I recall Das Leben der Anderen (propaganda film aus der DDR)...when they showed everybody simply ignore the discipline and walk off... Of course that's bs, but that's how the propaganda framed the time,,,

Somehow I cannot imagine that response to another bald-faced coup, not in the US. I imagine awful events...if we live so long...

Ed Curtain reviewed a Gospel by Griffin...which might dovetail into the shaping of the new US forms...but it's seriously flawed...It's trouble ahead, it seems.

Again, the (RT) Going Underground with Palast is very well worth hearing.

Posted by: Walter | Feb 29 2020 21:17 utc | 146

Bernie Sanders rally in Springfield, Virginia with Ilhan Omar. Live.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 29 2020 21:40 utc | 147

At the rally with Ihan Omar. It shows open-mindedness of Bernie, as he may accepted advise from John Bolton. Fox News found this tweet of the former ambassador newsworthy:

America is getting a full dose of @berniesanders extremism. He glorifies communist Cuba & now he's calling @AIPAC "leaders who express bigotry." In the past, he's called the Israeli govt "racist." What's next? @IlhanMN as Sec of State?

12:57 PM - Feb 25, 2020

Bolton also tweeted that Sanders "thinks Castro's communist Cuba is not all bad, what does he have to say about Maduro? Praising the actions of a brutal dictator is abhorrent and unacceptable. Bernie is revealing the extent of his extremism." I am not sure if Bolton twitted before or after Buttiegieg attacked Sanders on that point. I even managed to get "comment approved on that topic (some creep on Editorial Op-Ed was harping on the support of dictators by Sanders:

The author is a bold revisionist of history. " He excused the Nicaraguan communists when they took away the civil liberties of their citizens. He’s still making excuses for Castro." Castro's revolution happened after "In 1952. Facing certain electoral defeat, he led a military coup against President Carlos Prío Socarrás that preempted the election.[6] Back in power, and receiving financial, military, and logistical support from the United States government,[7][8] Batista suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike." Not that many liberties to take away. Same in Nicaragua. Sanders compared authoritarian government that cared about the people with those that did not. USA elite prepares the latter, Sanders, the former.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 2:39 utc | 148

Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 15:41 utc | 109

Comrade J, please be logical. Posted by: Walter | Feb 28 2020 15:56 utc | 112

Walter, please avoid authoritarian presumption. Jackrabbit lives in a free country, and if his pursuit of happiness conflicts with being logical, you advise him to be unhappy.

Actually, the dispute concerns the notion of justice. According to Jackrabbit, if there is a bad guy and he gets sentenced, only a vile person may raise objections to the fairness of the trial that resulted in that sentence. And how we decide if a guy (less frequently, a gal) is bad? Simple, public revulsion. Regretably, sometimes the trial fails to sentence a bad person due to so-called "fair procedure" (that was not followed in the trial of Weinstein). Ancient Greeks had this procedure: all citizens would be assembled and given shards of pottery, ostraca. By scribbling "yea" or "nay" and casting their ostraca they would decide if the subject of the procedure was good, or bad, in the latter case he would be banished. But that is indeed to legalistic. Banishment is not a dire penalty to a person with friends abroad.

Perhaps a better procedure to find out if a person is bad is to make him face a mob. A bad person will be hated by the mob and get the punishment fitting the crime.

In the feudal Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, very numerous gentry (Szlachta) had a democratic system within its caste with somewhat unique system that may be summarized "one sabre, one vote". Every citizen had a vote and a sabre. In an assembly, a bad person had trouble avoiding death from multiple cuts, "rozniesiony na szablach" (hard to translate, roughly, "distributed with sabres", one should not that resorting to firearms was very much frown upon.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 3:10 utc | 149

@149 Piotr Berman

Can you go preach your long sermon to Walter on the other open thread and stop polluting this thread that regards the Democratic Primary!

If you have nothing of value to add to this thread but that off-topic claptap, then BUZZ OFF, no one's interested.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 4:56 utc | 150

Elizabeth Warren is not winning any states and now not winning delegates either and she's still staying in the race. She is damaging to the progressive agenda. She takes a percentage away from Bernie and gets nothing for it. It's either about her ego, or stoping Bernie. #DropOutWarren is trending. Everyone is starting to suspect that the Persist SuperPac propping up her dying campaign is being funded by Bloomberg to split the Progressive vote.

Click view more replies in twitter below and check out gif's of Warren. Very appropriate!

Warren get out!

Great article in The Intercept! Joe Biden, James Carville and media I refused to watch gloat and slobber themselves need a wake up call!

black vote sanders

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 5:53 utc | 151

These primaries are proving just how low and dirty the establishment will go. They must not succeed in their corruption. South Carolina wasn't real. It was like feeling THE END in a dream, waking up in a cold sweat, and realizing THERE'S ONE MORE CHANCE TO GET IT RIGHT. What's coming in two days is real. TUESDAY IS REAL. IT CAN STILL HAPPEN.

Tuesday must be another Nevada blowout! LIZ-ARD WARREN MUST GET A MASS. SHELLACKING IN HER OWN STATE for betraying the progressive platform and for her meanbitch comments and staying around only to blunt Sanders.

Bernie's revolution must come out massively to vote. THIS IS THE MOMENT when its worth must be tested when everything people have struggled for hangs in the balance; when everything's on the line.

BERNIE'S THE LAST TRAIN; THE ONLY VEHICLE LEFT TO SEIZE POWER. TAKE IT. Take all California not for Bernie. US. Take Texas, Utah, Virginia, Vermont, Minnesota, Colorado, Maine. Take nothing for granted. It's time for people to massively use their power! People must come out for Bernie cause THE REVOLUTION STARTS ON TUESDAY. No one can stay home, 'cause it's do or die. IT'S TIME TO FIGHT THE CORRUPTION. THIS, THIS MOMENT IS REAL. THE TIME IS RIGHT NOW.

Nevada was the preview and Super Tuesday is DAY ONE OF POWER TO THE PEOPLE.



If you had
One shot
One opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
In one moment
Would you capture it
Or just let it slip?



Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 8:43 utc | 152

Today at 5 p.m. PT Bernie Sanders will hold his FIGHT THE POWER rally in Los Angeles, CA.

The venue holds 10,000 people. The rally is free and RSVP'd to full capacity already. (I wish the venue was twice that size; it would be full to capacity too).

Uncle Tom Clyburn and the black sheep that followed him rather than FIGHT THE POWER surrendered TO FEAR AND CORRUPTION in South Carolina, THIS: I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed; we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

THE TIME IS NOW to rise up.

Tuesday is day one of the Revolution. The time is NOW to rise up and take the POWER or it will never be.

Bernie Sanders is the only person who can defeat Trump because might can not make right with oppression.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 9:54 utc | 153

: Piotr Berman | Mar 1 2020 3:10 utc | 149

"Please be logical" is a request, Friend, not advice. Nevertheless it was intended rhetorically and intended to illustrate to third parties, such as you yourself that "Comrade J" was not a logical voice, and thus voiced worthless ideas.

How do you know where he lives? But aside, what country do you imagine is free?

When did you decide that non-logical voices had value?

Is not Walter that assume s"authoritarian presumption", is rule of logic, of all maths - the "authority" is, as you say, an agreed principle.

There is in logic, after a careful sounding over time, zero value in what Comrade J and his mirrored other,"C", have to say.

You may have noticed that I said "bye". To be blunt, I have no intention of paying the slightest notice to either agent henceforth.

Perhaps you will now criticize my "authoritarian presumption".

How does you post differ from "authoritarian presumption"?

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 10:54 utc | 154

Walter #46

(RT) Going Underground with Palast is very well worth hearing.

Thanks I like Greg Palast and have watched his stuff for some years. I will check that RT site.

I did see a great video from Tulsi Gabbard earlier blasting Erdoghan and his illegal invasion of Syria.

See here and scroll down a way:

Great to see one candidate in any USA election constantly beating the peace drums.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 11:05 utc | 155

I must add to my comment that Tulsi Gabbard is the only candidate in this Democazi primary that has cosistently advocated loudly and with authority to give peace a chance.

She seems the only candidate to debunk the moronic anti-Russian drivel from the mouths of ALL the other candidates.

Clearly the future is with Gabbard and the Russia haters are the problem and never the solution. Arlo Guthrie wrote a great song about that some time ago called Alice's Restaurent. Mad bad and stoned but anti war to his boots in those days.

Go Tulsi Go. We are forever indebted to your gallantry.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 11:25 utc | 156

Take a look at Tulsi Gabbards website to find out her next stops and speaking tour schedule.

A true candidate for peace and a people's future.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 1 2020 11:31 utc | 157


Yesterday the MIC, the corrupt Establisment, Wall Street shyster Billionaires buying up Democracy, the lying, gloating, corporate shill media, the insurance and pharma industry milking the sick and killing the poor, the oppressors, the regime changers, the war mongers, the Apartheid masters in Israel, THEY ALL WON IN SOUTH CAROLINA!

You feel powerless today???





🌏🇺🇸 It's all on the line.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 17:01 utc | 158

I see some hypocrite candidates Bloomberg, Buttigieg, and Warren and Biden earlier doing the photo-op in Selma, Alabama today, but ONLY Bernie Sanders is fighting to implement his platform of social justice which is perfectly aligned with the Poor People's Campaign platform.

Actions and courage speak louders than lip service and photo-op appearances once every year at commemorations.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 21:06 utc | 159

Weasel Pete Buttigieg pretended he wouldn't attend AIPAC. Well guess what? He just can't stay away from his Zionist financier donor base!

Mayor Pete AIPAC

Posted by: Circe | Mar 1 2020 23:42 utc | 160

Speaking of Buttigieg, he just quit the race.

The CIA may have to settle for its second, or even third favorite candidate.

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Mar 1 2020 23:57 utc | 161

Well what about the fag...guess he failed the big test...but his masters no doubt have plans for him, in the fullness of time. Bloomer probably promised him he'd keep those pictures secret.

Patrick Henningsen
#Buttigeig has dropped out.

He needs to brush up on that Obama delivery.

Posted by: Walter | Mar 1 2020 23:58 utc | 162

Klub-butcher is having a fling with Joe alzhiemer it seems. Thats like the old saying about who paid for the piper gets the next dance. What a corrupt political circus!

These oppotunist shits like Buttergig and Klubutcher and Warren are disgraceful low lifes. I favor brining back the old punishment of strapping them to a horse and parading them naked through the streets. These three are truly barnacles on the arse of humanity. Along with Biden of course.

Biden is a great stand up comic though he reminds me of Stepto senior in the Englander comedy stepto and son. Bound to be on utube somewhere.

Go Tulsi go....

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 3 2020 5:21 utc | 163

Greg Palast hit the nail right on the head. Election rigging like you have never seen. HT Walter an excellent interview on RT.

Greg has been outing these cretins for years and just won a good challenge in the federal court. So many dragons to slay in the USA.

If/when Bernie gets ripped off then Tulsi independent 2024.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 3 2020 9:49 utc | 164

Another faked or rigged PPL (phonyphukinlection) Palast digs into this stuff...old as smoke.

Fiorella Isabel
BREAKING: Machine Malfunctioning Forces East LA Voters to Vote Provisionally.
Machine Malfunctions Force East LA Voters to Take Provisional Ballots
When most of the machines at the East LA Doctor’s Hospital began malfunctioning, voters tried to vote for 45 minutes before they finally accepted a provision...

Posted by: Walter | Mar 3 2020 14:07 utc | 165

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