Puttin and Bloomberg bombed.
SAA and Sanders are advancing.
Colums of refugees flee angry Sanders supporters.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 26 2020 15:07 utc | 3

This discussion is frankly irrelevant. Trump is assured of re-selection because he’s appeased the only two constituencies that matter: the military industrial complex and the zionist lobby. The theatrics over Burnie et al is just so the Daymockratic Party gang can have something to hold together over until a suitably servile Daymockrat is selected in 2024.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 26 2020 15:24 utc | 5

Once Sanders wins Super Tuesday, then we’ll have to hear about the mismatch, Trump vs Sanders for the rest of the year. Sanders will easily defeat Trump. Trump has done nothing for Americans, or anyone else besides Israel and Saudi Arabia.
For me, shows like Jimmy Dore’s and The Hill’s Rising, are becoming unwatchable with constantly pointing out what’s being said on TV. We already know what they’ll say on TV, so nothing is surprising. Sadness, banality and boredom sets in. Two imperialists running against each other for the power of Executive Order on foreign policy and veto power in the U.N., is depressing to actual leftists

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 15:39 utc | 7

@4 Dave the Wade
Oh, and here I thought this was the place where pizzagate got wings on any thread? Yes, Trump will reluctantly respond to CoronaV, but secretly, he’s still hoping for an extension to his Ziofascist rule.
Now back to getting rid of the fascist parasite….
BERNIE IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT WILL DEFEAT TRUMP IN NOVEMBER
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out, Dave.

Later, Obama’s top advisers, some of whom are now highly skeptical of Sanders, proudly pointed to that moment as a turning point in the campaign that highlighted Obama’s willingness to stand up to the kind of national security conventional wisdom that led Democrats to take misguided hawkish positions on issues like Iraq.
They are much further to the left than the Obama crew, but the group of progressive foreign policy advisers around Sanders define themselves by their willingness to defy the certitudes of Washington’s foreign policy establishment, which they derisively call “the blob,” and Sanders made it clear he will not apologize for his Cold War heresies.
It might be a good bet. The Obama opening to Cuba was in 2014 (and since reversed by Donald Trump). Castro died in 2016. It’s true that Florida’s older Cuban-American community, which remains politically influential, is deeply unfriendly to politicians who focus on Castro’s literacy programs at the expense of his crimes. But the idea that it’s politically deadly in 2020 to articulate a more nuanced assessment of the communist dictator’s reign than what was politically acceptable during the Cold War and its aftermath is dubious.

No Bernie Slayer Emerges

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:48 utc | 9

Alas, I must carry this over from previous Open…it’s that important.

@432 Jackrabbit
Damn you Jackrabbit! Do you think Palestinians have the luxury of waiting for your FICTIONAL pure candidate and fictional pure party that the majority of brainwashed Americans can accept???
Do you think brainwashed Americans are ready to vote as a majority for anyone who condemns Israel? Ilhan Omar is lucky if she is re-elected in the most anti-Zionist district in the country!
Would you wait for that ILLUSION if you were suffering as deeply as Palestinians???
You are intellectually DISHONEST. Until you HONESTLY answer those questions you appear like nothing more than an anti-Semitic troll who hates Bernie for being a Jew!
Did you not read the link to Mondoweiss in my post in which Palestinian American activists admit Bernie is not their ideal candidate, but is better than anyone viable up to now and the harm to Palestinians of Americans not voting for him is so great they must seize this opportunity hopeful that Bernie’s deep sense of justice will bring justice for them.
Who are you to stand in the way of the only hope to come along for a suffering millions of people??! You disgust me! Stop with your sick and irrational anti-Bernie rants!
Your hatred eclipses all compassion!
Read the damn article: Palestinian Americans Bernie Sanders
and quit trolling!
Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 13:46 utc | 434
▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪
@440 SharonM
So in other words, you’re self-righteous SELF is saying we should all just ignore the fact that Palestinians are hoping Bernie wins, their American activist counterparts are fighting for Bernie to win, but YOU, from your comfortably numb existance, know better what’s right for a nation suffering extreme oppression and whose pain is multiplied under Trump???
👎🤬
Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 15:14 utc | 445

Don’t think you can avoid answering my questions by running to a new thread!
You’re not wiggling out of this; I’m waiting…

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 16:11 utc | 11

Circe | Feb 26 2020 16:11 utc |
I have never insulted your intelligence, nor, I am entirely sure, even your delusions, or any other characteristic of yours – only criticized your rudeness and your memory.
Please knock off the rudeness. It undermines you, nobody else.
I applaud Berner getting the seat overwatching the ruins..

Posted by: Walter | Feb 26 2020 16:22 utc | 13

Posted by: Noah Way | Feb 26 2020 14:58 utc | 1:
DNC platform: Anybody except Trump (or Sanders).
********
Indeed, many of the narrative managers who have spent four years decrying Trump as the nadir will prove ready to switch to “he’s not so bad” compared to Sanders.
But the operative truth for these people is far more chilling: it’s not so much “anybody but Trump, except Sanders”. Rather, more accurately it’s: “Nobody over Trump, except our tiny roster of pre-selected candidates. No one else need apply.”

Posted by: David G | Feb 26 2020 16:39 utc | 15

@10 Piotr Berman
The thing is, Sanders won’t do his russiagate poop very much against Trump. Remember, Trump is so easy to beat that even Hillary beat him in the popular. Sanders came from the left, and moved right, so he has many many ways to criticize Trump. The other Dems–Hillary, Biden, Buttigeig, etc., only know how to criticize Trump from the right. Sanders will just point out that billionaires suck, the rich/poor system sucks, and debt relief for Americans with bills coming in every month is good–it’s language that Americans understand a lot more now than a couple decades ago. And there’s this myth that Trump destroys people with his tweets, press conferences, and debates. He makes fun of people who are well-known to be pathetic anyway. His supporters will hang onto the “Bernie is a commie” meme, while awaiting Trump to make that meme more popular. And they’ll just keep waiting because it’s transparently silly to anyone but a far right winger. And there’s just not enough votes in that, in my view;)

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 16:47 utc | 17

@13 Walter
I kinda think that the urgency of the moment on so many levels, dire understandable despair of many in pain, climatic existential threat, besides getting rid of the manic Ziofascist in the White house calls for a little rudeness-oblige when the cynicism and cruel apathy is as THICK AS MELASSES, dontcha think???
And FYI, people who get it have literally applauded me for it! Sometimes a good bitchslap is necessary and very effective.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 16:47 utc | 19

Hmmm…I’m starting to think that my argument @11 is KRYPTONITE for rabbits and other cynical, Bernie-naysayer fauna.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 17:00 utc | 21

@18 blues
The legion of Bernie supporters can’t wait to punch the Democratic establishment in the nose on Super Tuesday, and that goes double for the fascist racist wing that follows after the Nomination.
Bernie’s gonna CRUSH Trump.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 17:07 utc | 23

My goodness, that Circe thing is an arrogant moron. It’s like having a David Brock kind of thing throwing up in threads. The type of fanatic that takes focus from their candidate and puts a burning spotlight on them.

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 17:12 utc | 25

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Feb 26 2020 17:07 utc | 24:

If all else fails, [Sanders] can always renounce his citizenship, become an Australian citizen, and run for office here. We are in a dire need of some new leadership in the antipodes too.

********
And you still have a Governor General to fire him if he actually shows any.

Posted by: David G | Feb 26 2020 17:26 utc | 27

@28 Jackrabbit
Someone like you on an endless Bernie spam-hate-fest is trying to poison opinion. You could care less that he is the candidate of Palestinian activists and the candidate Palestinians everywhere are hoping wins.
@25 SharonM
That doesn’t answer my question, now does it?
HYPOCRITES!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 17:47 utc | 29

Darn Russians made people pay $1750 to $3200 to attend the debates last night and clap for Bloomberg. The Russians also aired a long Bloomberg informercial and an anti-Medicare for All commercial during the ad breaks – to divide us. Putin will stop at nothing.

Posted by: SteveR | Feb 26 2020 18:03 utc | 31

Much of the establishment handwringing over Sanders reflects unease that his reformist concepts are part of the debate at all.
Calling out Netanyahoo as a racist on network television? Fantastic and necessary. It’s less about the messenger than the message. Popular movements can be sparked and gain momentum by emperor has no clothes moments. Sanders has a tough streak and the establishment has pissed him off enough that he is as unpredictable in stated opinion as Trump was four years ago. That’s a plus for all Americans.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 26 2020 18:12 utc | 33

Until the US – meaning we the people – get money out of politics – think Citizens United as one big example – whomever is elected President is beholden to donors in every major sector of our economy. Follow the money. This includes Bernie. See this at-a-glance link regarding Bernie’s voting record on foreign policy up through 2016. It is not a pretty picture. https://www.stpete4peace.org/bernie-hillary
Both parties are corrupted.
I understand how Americans want to believe that a president can solve our many ills. We want to believe that the government is for the people, by the people. And the deck is very stacked against people coming to understand the real truth of the US government, be it corporate media, education, entertainment, etc. Government narrative managers are their overseers. It is legal now to propagandize Americans.
So bless Bernie supporters hearts, for wanting a democracy, a republic, a constitutionally sound country. I do too. Yet unless we the people come together – really unite – and uniting is also something narrative controllers do their best to prevent – it is not going to change and is only getting worse.

Posted by: Cynthia | Feb 26 2020 18:13 utc | 35

In the South Carolina debate last night, Bloomberg attacked Sanders by saying the Russians wanted him to win the nomination because Trump would beat him easily. What a two-fer! How many more years will we be blessed with fables about those dastardly Russians and their omnipotent control of US elections?

Posted by: Dabooda | Feb 26 2020 18:13 utc | 37

@38 Gregory
How’s he going to pay for the ponies when most taxes will go to time traveling studies and zombie apocalypse defense? But brushing your teeth certainly will appeal to the middle class;)

Posted by: SharonM | Feb 26 2020 18:33 utc | 39

I have spent 16 years (since 2004) trying to figure out how deal with the spoiler effect — or put much more relevantly, ‘elite fronted party lock-in’. Understand that you may have a government comprised of 100 parties, but there will nonetheless be no democracy at all if they are all ‘elite fronted’ and ultimately controlled, no matter what policies they superficially promote. This is the nature of the lock-in effect.
Right now, thousands of intellectually sophisticated fools are trying to promote totally lock-in prone election systems such as ranked choice voting (RCV/IRV). These system will leave the voters just as party locked-in as they are with the choose-one system they have now. This is largely due to their requirement for extreme tabulationary opacity, and also extremely high information traffic.
Presently, the best cure for this is ‘simple positional voting’, which I promote as ‘ranked simple voting’ (which sophisticated fools often confuse with the quite similar, yet far more unobviously complicated ‘Borda method’). It uses precisely the same ballot design as RCV, so voters can simply check-off a box to indicate by which method they prefer their ballot to be tabulated.
The ranked ballots reflect the pattern: =/ 10 > 9 > 8 > … 1 > 0 /=. There are ten ranked ‘places’, and voters can assign one candidate to each place, and each candidate assigned to a ‘place’ will be granted a corresponding number of ‘points’ (and they can also leave places blank if they prefer). Putting it very simplistically, the candidate with the largest total of points wins. And it turns out that it is quite easy to fairly combine the results of this ranked simple voting (RSV) with those of ranked choice voting. Eventually all the voters will abandon RCV and all its unobvious complexity.
This is what people need to support!
As for poor Circe and dear Bernie, the poor chap has no chance. The best way to support Bernie is to buy one of those billion dollar lottery tickets at the corner market, and contribute the proceeds to the Bernie campaign. I am totally serious. This morning I received my third expensive, super-glossy mailing from the Michael Bloomberg campaign (Money raised: $200.4 million — from himself!). Very sorry to bear such grim tidings! But you could still direct your support to ranked simple voting. If we had that, somebody even better than Bernie would run, and win. Think about it.
Ranked Simple Voting Is The Answer

Posted by: blues | Feb 26 2020 19:08 utc | 41

On the last thread, I proved all candidates aside from Sanders are Pro-Establishment and Anti-99%. I’ve also written that Sanders is imperfect and that we’ll never find a perfect candidate given the fact of human imperfection. So as far as I’m concerned, the debate over which candidate to support has ended with Sanders being the clear choice. I’ve also shown how Sanders can wrap his campaign proposals in the language of the Constitution and the designs of The Founders which would make it dangerous for any of his opponents to argue against them, which is why we’re beginning to see personal assaults and smears against his character.
In 2016, the clear enemy was Hillary Clinton and her DNC/DLC rackets. In 2020, those enemies remain but are obfuscated by the current Pro-Establishment candidates. IMO, what must happen next is for the People’s Party Movement Sanders initiated to become autonomous–to grow beyond Bernie Sanders and truly embody all the people already in and soon to join. The reason ought to be clear: No one individual can beat back the Establishment and their Death Squads (If you don’t think they exist, you’re very naïve); they can only be defeated by a very broad coalition of US citizens, most of whom still need to be educated as to who their enemies are.
The shouting matches here and elsewhere only serve the Establishment and must cease. Some may not care to support Sanders, but to work against him is to work against yourself. It’s also very key for Sanders to have likeminded people elected to Congress and to statehouses nationally. The most important election during the Depression was 1936, and one of FDR’s most important speeches was the 1937 Inaugural, which I’ve also cited and linked. Most importantly, political change won’t occur unless we all get off our butts and work for it regardless of where you’re living as ousting Neoliberalism and reestablishing national sovereignty is a global task for all citizens to accomplish. Yes, a repetition of the last financial crisis is on the horizon. The real data I’ve shown proves the real economy has yet to recover from the Dot.Com crash of the late 1990s while a vast army 100 million strong want full employment at a living wage, all of whom ought to be within the Movement. I’m reminded that we’ve been pushed and pulled in so many directions over the years that we’re now like the befuddled star of Quadrophrenia who in a moment of lucidity sings:
“My karma tells me
You’ve been screwed again.
If you let them do it to you
You’ve got yourself to blame.
It’s you who feels the pain
It’s you that feels ashamed.”
And that the only remedy is to fight back–to Rage Against the Machine and convert the Mods.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 26 2020 19:39 utc | 43

Reposted from the last of the Week in Review Open Thread (with its comment numeration):
Trailer Trash @332:
>Not only could this burgeoning movement be a very long-awaited opening here in the US, it >could be a real game-changer globally.
>Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 25 2020 12:38 utc | 315
“A pleasant thought, but is it more than just another pipe dream? Is there even one example of an electoral machine turning into a movement that went beyond getting votes? If there is, it needs to be closely studied.”
Recently, no. While it may seem long ago, the commoners of France’s Third Estate took part in a clearly rigged system and turned it into a vehicle for the French Revolution. Because the US people going into this have now, like the French people then, a very tall stack of grievances and very little political organization or ideology (this latter may have advantages as well as disadvantages) I feel this may not be too stretched a comparison. In a sense I’m seeing the Sanders campaign as our modern Third Estate’s coming together all over the country, knowing we’ll likely be outvoted or otherwise denied, but still gathering together and talking, sharing ideas and experiences and assembling our demands to present to the PTB.
But going beyond this, we can’t commit the error of those who “prepare to win the last war” or in this case preceding revolutions—almost all of which were not fought in the metropolitan imperial centers anyway but in the colonized countries where electoral structures were nonexistent. Plus, it’s not as though socialist consciousness-raising opportunities are thick on the ground here in the US, whose propaganda machine would make Goebbels drool with envy. The terrain of our struggles isn’t always that which we would choose according to “classical” models.
We need to be here and now, and ready for something new. We need to *be* something new. US electoral campaigns generally suck all the oxygen out of the social space in which we’d normally be organizing, and the Democratic Party has long been called “the place social movements go to die”… but this may well be an exception that proves the rule. The growth and strength of the Sanders campaign, and the rallying to it of more and more sectors of the working class, is something that has caught both the capitalists as well as many of us longtime revolutionary socialists by surprise.
Many others have talked about modern warfare—4th generation or what-have-you—being decentralized, with blurring of lines between war and politics, combatants and civilians, or (is this a Saker formulation?) 80% informational, 15% economic, 5% kinetic, etc. I believe we need to develop our sense of class war and how to conduct it to its next level. If nothing else a working class presence in an otherwise capitalist election can promote consciousness-raising, exposing the false nature of capitalist democracy, raising socialist alternatives. If there is to be a development here of something akin to “4th Generation Class Warfare”, well, it’s certainly greatly informational with potentially significant economic ramifications (we’ll see about kinetic). For this year we must absolutely blur the lines between class war and electoral politics—while the corporate media seek to absorb and disperse class consciousness against us. And we must look beyond this year—this election isn’t forever, even if the corporate media make it feel that way…
But we can only do this if we are present with our ideas, experience and hard work alongside everyone else rising in this struggle—building on its strengths, shoring up its weaknesses and fiercely countering its contradictory manifestations (e.g., bashing Russia, China, Iran or other objectionable foreign policy). Influence and leadership are earned in real struggle and can only be earned where that struggle is happening.
The alternative is for us to hang around the edges of this movement handing out leaflets inviting people to come instead to our little meetings to hear about “pure” socialism. I’m not arguing for any faith in the Democratic Party or US electoral politics as a vehicle for real change, only to recognize that this struggle is breaking out *within* the Democratic Party even though it’s not *of* the Democratic Party. I’m trying to argue for a broader perspective on how to build a movement here in the US with what we have. And, there being a relationship between domestic and foreign policy, both the realist and optimist in me feels that building even an initially “domestically-minded” mass left here will have global implications.

Posted by: Vintage Red | Feb 26 2020 20:11 utc | 45

To blues @41 (2020/02/26 19:08 UTC):
Technically, what you’re proposing appears to be a form of positional voting — with the ballots marked from the top score down rather than from the lowest-numbered (highest-preference) rank up, and with the option of not filling in all possible scores.
If it were possible for someone with two top favorites in your example field of ten to give both of them a 10, or do the like at the bottom of the ranking range (or anywhere in the middle), then you’d be closer to score voting (a/k/a range voting).
In the US non-political world, you’re pretty much talking about a sports poll. But some places have adopted positional voting for their government elections, too.
(Of course, no voting system — ordinal or cardinal — can meet all desirable criteria. It’s up to each voting population to decide what it cares most about.)

Posted by: jalp | Feb 26 2020 20:11 utc | 47

Cynthia @48–
Thanks for your reply. It’s the Class War; it’s been raging for decades (centuries really), long enough for us to become educated so we don’t get fooled again as happened with Obama. We also know the massive threat posed by the Establishment; saying it’s existential is no longer hyperbole; the proof’s in the 100 million and every point the Outlaw US Empire touches globally. And if that’s not enough, we see how Julian Assange’s treated and know they’d like to do the same to all of us who threaten their ill-gotten privilidge.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 26 2020 21:03 utc | 49

“This discussion is frankly irrelevant. Trump is assured of re-selection because he’s appeased the only two constituencies that matter: the military industrial complex and the zionist lobby. “
No you forgot the other constituencies that will vote for him
Namely the dumb ass stupid rednecks , and the as stupid evangelist.

Posted by: Kooshy | Feb 26 2020 21:32 utc | 51

Hey, remember yesterday evening I was here bitchin’ that the debate audience must have been paid by Bloomberg or the DNC cause they were so hostile to Bernie. I was right to suspect something!
This is how sharp Papa Bernie is! (Click on interview with MSNBC and vol. Right bottom.)
Bernie zinger
Oh and someone else caught Bloomberg in a Freudian slip like me! (It went right over the ms media’s head.)
Bloomberg slip
-Trust you instincts.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 21:47 utc | 53

karlof1 @49
You are right about it being a class war. It is this class war that the neoliberal establishment does not want us to see, hence creating other divisions such as racial, gender/trans, religious, etc. so we fight one another instead of uniting and fighting them.
When the many shades of surveillance are added in to your establishment existential threat, the Matrix feels really close at hand.
My guess is that your understanding stems from years of paying attention. Do you have any recommendations for sites that have helped?
I take it that your support of Bernie, with his imperfections, is due to you seeing him as a possible shift in the neoliberal order. My concern is that his imperfections are also baggage that is keeping people from supporting him – the woke agenda, panicky human-caused climate change agenda, supporting most of the MIC agenda. The first two are areas in which debate has been/is being shut down, which is a real red flag.
Thank you for any reply, or none. I always appreciate the big picture.

Posted by: Cynthia | Feb 26 2020 22:23 utc | 55

karlof1 @49
Followed your poster name and found Michael Hudson, as a start.

Posted by: Cynthia | Feb 26 2020 22:43 utc | 57

I think B should reconsider renaming this thread to the watch Circe belittle and beat everyone with a different opinion about Bernie Sanders about the head with a tar and feather accusation of being a pro zionist beat stick. Absolute nonsense.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 26 2020 23:01 utc | 59

Walter #13
Replying to

Circe | Feb 26 2020 16:11 utc |
I have never insulted your intelligence, nor, I am entirely sure, even your delusions, or any other characteristic of yours – only criticized your rudeness and your memory.
Please knock off the rudeness. It undermines you, nobody else.

EXACTLY THAT, thank you Walter and thank you SharonM. Remain calm and mindful. Add a dash of mirth now and again.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 26 2020 23:04 utc | 61

I gotta say, I can’t wait til Sanders moves into general election mode. Trump thinks he’s real slick ready to dish the dirt, but I think Bernie’s got his number lined up.
https://youtu.be/bZMzI1ACUNU
Bernie sneaks up on Trump. Warning: Put you diapers on!
https://youtu.be/brvDhySezyk

Posted by: Circe | Feb 26 2020 23:19 utc | 63

Karlof1 @60
“And I highly value genuine discourse with associates.”
I’m with you. I invite that. Genuine discourse, with thoughtful back and forth. I’m no historian. Yet I’m interested in thinking and learning together. TY.

Posted by: Cynthia | Feb 27 2020 0:36 utc | 65

Joe Biden announces his candidacy for US Senate:
https://twitter.com/ErinMPerrine/status/1232293642984927232

Posted by: Mao | Feb 27 2020 0:43 utc | 67

“the Class War” and the “threat posed by the Establishment” is one aspect of what ails present day American society. Lurking behind it is the dominating cultural divide between individualism and collectivism that has always existed in the U.S. The deep strand of individualism in the American psyche, with its emphasis on “I” vs “We” consistently plays into the hand of the Establishment and its political enablers at all levels. It’s this individualism that leads people to despise the nanny state for all its regulations, taxes and laws that control and limit individual behavior and freedom. These groups easily buy into the Establishment’s pervasive warnings and dangers of “creeping socialism”, or what they equate to the Bernie Sanders plan for America. Groups like Hillary’s “deplorables”, gun right advocates and independent business owners, and many others represent a hefty chunk of American society. I don’t see them jumping on the Bernie Sanders bandwagon in any large numbers.

Posted by: Carciofi | Feb 27 2020 2:37 utc | 69

=/ It’s this individualism that leads people to despise the nanny state for all its regulations, taxes and laws that control and limit individual behavior and freedom. These groups easily buy into the Establishment’s pervasive warnings and dangers of “creeping socialism”, or what they equate to the Bernie Sanders plan for America. /= — above
Perhaps it would be more precise to categorize these groups as ‘individualists’ and ‘equalists’. They are posed as being in stark opposition, and yet they are not true opposites at all. Deep down we all know that we are indeed independent individuals. Yet just as deep down we all know that we are in a spiritual sense equals. Yet the psychopathic eleets always insist that we must constantly be in opposition to these intrinsic aspects of our own selves. It was always about divide and conquer, in every possible aspect.
The so-called ‘state’ has always been a larger aspect of family. A family always troubled with many warts and and inequities and conflicts. Nonetheless an inevitable extension of the profound idea of family.
And within any such family there will always exist those with a lust for power, which unlike sex, must always assume an expression of rape. This is why true democracy should exist. But of course, democracy can easily be abused, in the perpetration of power-rape. And this is the reason I advocate for ranked simple voting.

Posted by: blues | Feb 27 2020 3:43 utc | 71

Blues “This is why true democracy should exist.”
What exactly is this. This would require a completely impartial media to disseminate information.
Who oversees the media’s impartial information.
In a small community where everybody knows everybody else, democracy could function.
In large nations is no perfect system. We have good rulers or bad rulers. Any system can produce a good ruler and any system can produce a bad ruler.
Perfidious albion was exceptionally good at preventing revolutions. The democratic systems they brought in allowed the peasants to think they had a say. To prevent revolution during the cold war, The perfidious albion family had to ensure their peasants were better off than the soviets. That was the golden years of five-eyes democracy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 27 2020 9:10 utc | 73

Bernie had better win BIG on super Tuesday.
From Michael Hudson here

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 27 2020 10:11 utc | 75

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 26 2020 15:57 utc | 10
Corona Virus has the potential to be the end of Trump. It has become pandemic, is bound to kill the weak, and US healthcare/emergency services are in no state to deal with it – see Katrina. It will kill the weak and poor plus stop the economy for a while.
Sanders will own the most relevant subject of 2020.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 27 2020 12:46 utc | 77

Trump’s identification with the stock-market in recent weeks seems to me to have been so far over the top that he missed the one and only opportunity he had to distance himself from the coming market disruptions which could or would have given his crew something of a free pass as bubbles and the very idea of globalism disintegrate.
That’s my thesis anyway. I’ve liked trump as the face of a bankrupt hegemon, seeing him unwind misplaced trust and faith as he has, while the music of populism played in the background for a few years.
Now however, even if the spring warming was to bring the infection R0 to 1, the posturing leaves him little but war to play election winning shell-games with. If they realize it or not, I think he’s burned/alienated his base making the US look a completely rudderless hindrance.
Thus, @#5, he might just have inflicted mortal wounds on himself so that a trump outcome will require more extreme situations yet to be revealed. But perhaps that’s what you meant!

Posted by: Michael | Feb 27 2020 13:05 utc | 79

Jackrabbit @62
I did see your reply shortly after it was posted last evening, but I had to prepare dinner, then spent the evening with my wife – much preferable to online bickering.
It is your opinion that Sanders was/is not in it to win. That’s your opinion. My opinion is that is not true. I too remember pretty well every step of the ’16 campaign, and the choices Sanders made, many which disheartened me greatly. I believe that it can be argued that all of the decisions he made can be interpreted as political self-preservation. At many points along the way he could have made decisions that no doubt would have pleased the more radical or “real” left, but which also would have effectively ended his political career. This is the harsh shitty reality we live in.
Referring again to the beginnings of his ’16 campaign he did in fact direct his arguments of corruption at the Democratic Party. And I was also watching when he said “enough with the damn e-mails” as the moderators of that debate tried to direct the “show” to scandal! when he was trying to talk about issues.
I’m not going to have a back and forth with you; I will convince you of nothing. But I’ll share my considered opinion of Bernie Sanders with you and any others who care to read it. Please keep in mind that EVERYTHING I’m going to say is my opinion which may in the end be proven wrong or unfounded.
Sanders does understand the root problems with US politics and government. He’s old school enough to still believe that some change, any change, can be affected through the electoral process. He’s also pragmatic enough to understand the only route to the WH is through the corrupt vicious 2-party system. His reluctance to engage in personal attacks or exhibit a killer instinct is probably guided by a personality that is shaped by his own perception of ethical behavior. He believes that the issues and being on the right side of them should be enough to carry the day. This last is possibly what you see as “not in it to win it.”
If there is any truth in the many polls that report that Sanders is the most consistently popular political figure of recent years, my guess is that’s because he’s saying things that have heretofore been considered taboo or political suicide by the pundit intelligentsia, but a beaten down and disenfranchised citizenry is hungry to hear.
Again, all and just my opinion. I’ll end my little statement of belief (be it deluded or accurate) by paraphrasing Ghandi: “What do you think of US democracy?” reply “It would be a good idea.”

Posted by: vinnieoh | Feb 27 2020 15:55 utc | 81

vinnieoh @82
Thanks, for the reply.
I support Sanders policies and hope that he wins the nomination.
Unfortunately, the deck is stacked against him. Just as it was in 2016.
My opinion is that if he really wants to win, he has to take on the Party. But that’s something that he doesn’t seem interested in doing.
That you and other progressive-minded people like his “message” isn’t nearly enough to get him nominated and elected.
The Party uses identity politics, and media assets to spread FUD. Is rising above these ‘hits’ really the best course? Examples: When Hillary said “no body like him” Bernie’s response was merely: “On a good day, my wife likes me.” (Note: Tulsi was much more forceful when Hillary went after her.) And when accused of Russian support for his candidacy, he didn’t attack Russiagate as nothing more than a bogus excuse for Hillary’s loss in 2016.
Why are there two billionaires on the debate stage? Why are there no people of color? And what about the Party’s claim, in a lawsuit over their collusion with Hillary in 2016, that it doesn’t have to be democratic?
I am among those who doubt that anyone an wrest control of the Democratic Party. Attempting to do so seems doomed to fail and actually supports the corrupt political system.
IMO we need genuine, independent Movements not a political party insurgency. It’s clear that that is what the establishment most fears, not Bernie.
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 27 2020 16:54 utc | 83

Will the last idiot to insist that the Sanders movement is a cynical attempt to lead unsuspecting radicals into supporting the Clintonites- that Bernie is and was in 2016 a ‘sheepdog’ candidate- please incorporate this story into the theory?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/27/youll-see-rebellion-sanders-supporters-denounce-open-threats-superdelegates-steal

Posted by: bevin | Feb 27 2020 17:18 utc | 85

@Jon_in_AU #24
You said:

{Sanders} He is no savior, but is a necessary catalyst to try and disrupt the steady flow of the nation down the proverbial shit-chute. He is a stepping-stone to a better outcome than the current scam, so good on him and good luck.

The above was said about Trump.
Just saying…

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 27 2020 19:45 utc | 87

To my thoughs @40 above:
I scrolled through the NC debate comments to about two-thirds down, to find a clear positive on Bernie’s remarks:
nippersmom: “Great comment from Bernie on US overthrowing governments around the world.”
…
…
Posted by: juliania | Feb 26 2020 19:30 utc | 42
If it’s not too much trouble, Juliania, would you mind reproducing the crux of Bernie’s comment on US overthrowing govternments around the world, which filled ‘nippersmom’ with such unbridled enthusiasm?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 27 2020 20:22 utc | 89

” If Bernie Sanders thinks Cuba is worth defending, he should talk to gay dissidents
Aaron Hicklin”
“Democrats need to take a long, hard look at Bernie Sanders before taking the plunge
Andrew Gawthorpe”
Two stories today in the MI6 (formerly Manchester) Guardian attacking Bernie Sanders.
“we can collect corroborating testimony, e.g. expressions of gratitude by Hillary Rodham Clinton herself.” Piotr Berman@89
You would have to be very short of evidence to count Hillary’s pro-forma, transparently insincere ‘thanks’ at the Convention, given the incredible tsunami of whining and blame transferring that she has directed at Sanders for losing her the election. Even today her operatives continue to blame Sanders and indeed the “Russians” that they claim are backing him for the fruits of the campaign that she, and her cronies in the DNC, began by cheating the primary voters and stealing votes.
It is a campaign that still continues as the Clintonite connections with the Mayor of South Bend’s audacious attempt at daylight robbery in Iowa reminds us.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 27 2020 22:27 utc | 91

For the ages:
No, Not Sanders, Not Ever — He is not a liberal, he’s the end of liberalism. – by David Brooks
Symptomatic.

Posted by: vk | Feb 28 2020 1:39 utc | 93

“we can collect corroborating testimony, e.g. expressions of gratitude by Hillary Rodham Clinton herself.” Piotr Berman@89
You would have to be very short of evidence to count Hillary’s pro-forma, transparently insincere ‘thanks’ at the Convention, given the incredible tsunami of whining and blame transferring that she has directed at Sanders for losing her the election. Even today her operatives continue to blame Sanders and indeed the “Russians” that they claim are backing him for the fruits of the campaign that she, and her cronies in the DNC, began by cheating the primary voters and stealing votes.
It is a campaign that still continues as the Clintonite connections with the Mayor of South Bend’s audacious attempt at daylight robbery in Iowa reminds us.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 27 2020 22:27 utc | 92
My sentiments exactly, although I was inspired by “Nobody likes him” comment that was, how to say it, short of warmth. I also think that the comment was sincere: nobody on speaking terms with former Secretary of State likes the senior senator from Vermont. Total social separation.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 28 2020 2:51 utc | 95

My statement and the link are not deceptive.
Why are you shouting?
!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 28 2020 3:03 utc | 97

Jackrabbit
I’m shouting because you’re trying to smear Bernie with that inflammatory title you put on that link that merely goes to an unkown person’s opinion here! Who cares what they think! That has nothing to do with who Bernie is. When you don’t have fact you try to smear him with deceptive manipulation! Anyway you rarely have facts.
All you do is hypothesize and spin and call it fact. Your tactics are dirty and you behave like A troll and I’m sick of it!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 28 2020 12:33 utc | 99