Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 27, 2020

The Air War In Afghanistan Expands On Both Sides

Under the Trump administration U.S. air attacks in Afghanistan have sharply increased. But it now seems that the Taliban have acquired some means to counter them.

Last year the U.S. dropped a record number of bombs on Afghanistan leading to ever increasing casualties among civilians:

According to the Combined Forces Air Component Commander (CFACC) 2013-2019 Airpower Statistics released in late January, 7,423 missions flown in Afghanistan in 2019 resulted in weapons being released. There were more weapon releases in most months of the year than in any corresponding months since records were first released in 2009, with September recording the most for the year at 948.

The previous annual record was 7,362 set in 2018, and the last two years together have seen more weapon releases over Afghanistan than the combined number for 2012 through to 2017.

Twenty bombing strikes per day is a quite astonishing number. Many civilians get killed in this U.S. bombing campaign. The U.S. often seems not to know who it is hitting. This report from last week is typical:

A drone attack carried out by U.S. forces earlier this month in western Afghanistan that apparently targeted a splinter Taliban group also killed at least 10 civilians, including three women and three children, an Afghan rights official and a council member said Wednesday.
...
There was no immediate comment from the Afghan military or the U.S. forces. But Wakil Ahmad Karokhi, a provincial council member in Herat, said the Jan. 8 strike also killed the commander of a Taliban splinter group, known as Mullah Nangyalia, along with 15 other militants.
...
The commanders funeral the following day was held in the Herat provincial capital’s Guzargah neighborhood, and was attended by dozens of militants.

Karokhi criticized the strike as “huge mistake” saying the commander had been a useful buffer against the Taliban in Shindand district, taking up arms with his fighters against the insurgents “when no one else would do it" and leaving the area's civilians in peace.

The U.S. military and its allies and Afghan proxies are not the only ones fighting. The Taliban can hit back at helicopters and planes and, judging from the number of recent air incidents, they now have found effective means to do so. Two days ago they destroyed another helicopter:

Drexluddin Spiveyzai @RisboLensky - 9:44 UTC · Jan 25, 2020

Helicopter hit by missile in Kajaki area of #Helmand 4 soldiers wounded via @TOLOnews #Afghanistan

Its #Moldova flag. Helicopter got hit pretty bad. True miracle there are no deaths

#Taliban took responsibility for shooting down of military helicopter in #Helmand #Afghanistan

This is the 4th helicopter that went down in January

Video from Kajaki

Four helicopter losses in one month is quite significant.

Earlier today there were reports that a civilian Afghan airliner had come down. Those turned out to be false. But a plane had indeed crashed in Ghazni province south of Kabul. It was a military one:

Harry Boone @towersight - 12:37 UTC · Jan 27, 2020

Wreck of plane crashed today in Afghanistan looks like to be a USAF Bombardier Global 6000 / E-11A "BACN" (Battlefield Airborne Communications Node)

Four U.S. E-11As are assigned to the 430th Expeditionary Electronic Combat Squadron and operate usually from Kandahar AB.

There are video of the burning and burned out plane.


bigger

Afghan sources say the Taliban claimed that they shot down the plane. Others deny that. What is sure though is that the plane crashed into Taliban held territory. At least two persons on board were killed.


bigger

The "BACN" flying radio relay stations have been in Afghanistan for a while. A military report from March 2017 said:

Called “as essential to mission success as bullets,” the E-11A Battlefield Airborne Communications Node flew its 10,000th sortie Feb. 24, 2017 at Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan, since arriving in Afghanistan eight years ago.

The 430th Expeditionary Electronic Squadron operating out of Kandahar is the only unit in the U.S. Air Force that operates the E-11A with the BACN payload. It was created to fulfill what is called a joint urgent operational need, when it was identified that the terrain of Afghanistan posed serious communication challenges.

E-11A

bigger

There appear to exist only four of these planes which are heavily modified Bombardier Global 6000 ultra long-range business jets. They are only used in Afghanistan.

The loss is significant. The ground troops depend on radio communication when they direct bombers to their targets. Without the flying relay stations they have no chance to do so in Afghanistan's mountainous terrain.

It is not known what new means the Taliban have to take down planes and helicopters. In 2018 a few Stinger anti-air missiles were found during a raid on some Taliban. But those seem to have been old and were probably no longer functioning. Helicopters can be brought down with machine guns or even with anti-tank missiles (RPGs).

But the E-11A usually fly at a significant altitude and the crashed plane was not near an airport. The usual man-portable air-defense missiles (MANPAD) like the U.S. made Stinger reach a maximum altitude of only some 3.500 meters. 

That opens the possibility that the Taliban have acquired new supplies of larger missiles. One wonders where those would come from.

On January 5 Hizbullah leader Hassan Nazrallah announced how the 'resistance axis' would respond to the U.S. murder of the Iranian General Soleimani and the Iraqi PMU leader Al-Muhandis.

The response to the blood of Soleimani and Al-Muhandis must be expulsion of all U.S. forces from the region.

Using effective means to take down even high flying U.S. planes would be one possible way to achieve that aim.

But Iran is not the only possible source of such missiles. China and Russia also produce effective anti-air missiles and the military in Pakistan and in Tajikistan have bought those in significant numbers. All these countries usually hold back from providing anti-air missiles to militants as they could also endanger their own (civil) airplanes.

But the loss of five aircraft in one month in Afghanistan might well mean that this has changed.

Posted by b on January 27, 2020 at 16:03 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

I do not see any chance that the Russian would have supplied MANPADs for this operation to the Taliban because, if they did so, we would give then give them to FSA/HTS.

Posted by: Schmoe | Jan 28 2020 3:33 utc | 101

@ 101 schmoe, i thought usa-israel-ksa did give them to fsa/hts..

Posted by: james | Jan 28 2020 3:39 utc | 102

Posted by: Schmoe | Jan 28 2020 3:33 utc | 101

A bomb could have exploded on the plane. Or certain equipment could have been used to jam onboard electronics, we know that Iran can capture or jam advanced US drones for example.

Posted by: Passer by | Jan 28 2020 3:44 utc | 103

Wiki page of D'Andrea got changed again, now he "is" a CIA officer.

Someone is playing games.

Posted by: Passer by | Jan 28 2020 3:50 utc | 104

@ Posted by: Schmoe | Jan 28 2020 3:33 utc | 101 and others

I believe it really is true that Iran was and in this case is showing their technology and information capabilities to empire.

Information is leaking out that the recent Iran attacks on the Iraq air bases caused more injuries and deaths than were admitted to early on. Given the lack of information from the MSM about this airplane downing in Afghanistan and the potential confirmation that the plane included CIA bigwigs, I am inclined to think this is all Iran and its regional support network that is now very focused.

What is the US going to blow up next to try and show they are still in control of Iraq and staying on in Iraq and Afghanistan?

And I don't think Iran and allies are going to stop with the pressure until they see serious movement out of the region instead of a cockamamie Peace Plan and more bullying/aggression.

Maybe soon, the story of who was in the US spy/networking plane, will come out more broadly. Maybe faster than we are getting leaks about the recent air base bombing deaths/injuries.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2020 3:51 utc | 105

It's being reported that Ayatollah Mike & other high ranking CIA personnel were onboard & killed in the crash.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/01/27/vt-had-it-first-pentagons-top-spy-plane-downed-by-taliban-crypto-gear-docs-captured-warning-unpleasant-photos/

Posted by: CrzKat | Jan 28 2020 4:05 utc | 106

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Who would blame Iran to help the Taliban or the Houthis or anyone else inflict humiliation and pain to the USA or its allies?
The USA did that in Afghanistan by arming the Taliban to inflict pain to Russia and in Syria by arming ISIS to remove Bashar al Assad
I certainly think that Iran (and Russia) are allowed to use the same scheme...

Posted by: Virgile | Jan 28 2020 4:13 utc | 107

James @102

There might have been a few cases of rebels using MANPADS, but to my knowledge very sporadic. A Syrian Su-22(?) was downed about four months ago but I am not sure what mechanism brought it down.

There are many low flying helicopters over the battlefield and those I assume they would be easy targets for MANPADs absent excellent countermeasures.

Posted by: Schmoe | Jan 28 2020 4:19 utc | 108

It beggars belief that the CIA would put D'Andrea on a BACN operations flight. The E-11A typically loiters over the service area by flying in circles tens of thousands of feet above shoulder-fired SAM range for several hours. It can collect electronic intelligence, but there is no reason for someone to sit in the back of the aircraft to 'listen'. Everything the E-11 hears is relayed back to a command center. An air conditioned command center with soda and snacks and bathrooms. That's where any CIA types would be listening if they were at all. People like D'Andrea don't do mundane chores like that - they get summary reports and clips of recordings provided by peon analysts.

The wreckage of the E-11 only shows engine damage on the starboard (right) engine from inside the engine - about where the turbine's compressor section is located. Turbine blade failure would look like that, but I have no idea if that was the cause of the crash or a result of the impact and debris. The exhaust cowling is not attached, but one video shows it in fairly good condition a few hundred feet earlier in the skid marks (= not blown off by a MANPADS at altitude). The other engine appears relatively undamaged except for the underside cowling probably opened during the initial impact.

None of that engine damage is typical of IR-homing MANPADS seeking on the hot exhaust side of a turbine engine.

There's a little air scoop (red?) opened on the right-side tail section that I think might be the E-11's Auxiliary Power Unit (APU - a small turbine generator). The APU is automatically activated a secondary power source if either engine's generator goes out. The APU intake air scoop opens whenever it runs. It could be further indication of and engine failure or some other kind of electrical problem related to the crash.

The Taliban certainly don't have any secret mobile SAM launchers or radars. We'll probably never know why the aircraft really came down, but 'technical difficulties' (= catastrophic engine failure) is at least a possibility here. At least as much of a possibility, I would argue, as the Taliban acquiring MANPADS from anyone.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 28 2020 4:21 utc | 109

@ 108 schmoe... that is basically my thinking too.. thanks...

@ 109 paveway... i agree with your logic - very unlikely Michael D'Andrea was on the plane - and to your other comments as well thanks..

Posted by: james | Jan 28 2020 4:28 utc | 110

@ Virgile | Jan 28 2020 4:13 utc | 107 who wrote
"
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
"
Exactly my thought. Iran has friends like this all over the ME

Targeting a missile for this task should be easy with the plane squirting out frequencies at power all the time.

Getting a missile to go that high may have taken more work or modification but doable.

The real scary part for empire is/was the intelligence and ability to act on it in a timely manner.

To PavewayIV with the "why was he/they up there?" I would conjecture hubris and the need for a non-bugged meeting place.

What thrust and parry efforts will we see next? Just as long as it is not nukes, this is the path that must be taken.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2020 4:39 utc | 111

It beggars belief that the CIA would put D'Andrea on a BACN operations flight.
Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 28 2020 4:21 utc | 109

In the clandestine world of "gotcha" the idea is to avoid patterns or predictability. Is it not possible that the E-11A could be simultaneously used for an extraneous purpose? Could it not be viewed as the perfect secure vehicle to transport VIPs safely through a combat zone; since it is a very special plane and could apparently "see" everything and was immune to enemy fire? Come on! The Bigwigs LOVE to play soldier every now and then.

I am still holding out for more proof that this arsehole actually got what was coming to him...but I am not about to dismiss these preliminary reports simply because D'Andrea being on BACN operations flight would not confirm to standard operating procedure. Let's just say that I am waiting to see proof that this guy is still alive.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Jan 28 2020 5:09 utc | 112

The problem for a shoulder fired missile to hit high flying birds is weight of propellant. Russia seems to have developed high energy propellants for it new weapons. A bit of that tech spread around would go a long way towards grounding the US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2020 5:12 utc | 113

Umm..pardon me, but I thought 1. we had all those fancy satellites to do relays of messages..why TH are we flying endangered airplanes???
2. Do we not really have those satellites?
3. why are we even IN Afghanistan killing folks and breaking things? I thought all the 911 guys were saudis???

Posted by: Fredrick | Jan 28 2020 6:03 utc | 114

Jihadi Julian Röpcke of Bild is already insinuating that Iran and/or Russia must have given the Taliban the missile that shot this plane down. Just in case the "accidental crash" cover story now being peddled fails to stand up, say if the Taliban presents the wreckage as proof.

The idea that the Taliban cannot cobble together their own longer range SAM missiles is probably erroneous. We know what the Houthis in Yemen can do and have been doing. But wherever the Taliban came up with missiles, shooting down Amerikastani and vassal aircraft is an excellent method of making love difficult for the occupation war criminals. Here's hoping for more of the same.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 28 2020 6:12 utc | 115

karlof1 | Jan 27 2020 18:49 utc | 35
re Cornering the Opium/Heroin market...

May I digress a bit...

All costs of ops in Afgh are paid from .gov budgets.

On the other hand, the poppy/opium/heroin revenues make-up v large share of off-the-books, utterly opaque funding of covert ops [incl nation-state long range programs] on int'l scale that are unknown to Congress or any other .gov persons. These are anonymous players, not on .gov payroll, and answer to no outsider; don't need to. Opium/drugs/etc trade covers their payroll. In WW2, Paul Helliwell was simultaneously OSS Colonel and Chiang's Chief Of Staff. Post WW2 Helliwell and others operated as civilians as a DarkOrg.[and I think JFK was a threat to "them".]

That's how the French intel were funding secret ops after after WW2 IIRC from McCoy's Politics of H in SE Asia.

Posted by: chu teh | Jan 28 2020 6:26 utc | 116

Looks like some of the yanks may have escaped.
https://twitter.com/pajhwok/status/1222011912529027072

Looking at the pics of the burnt out plane, it was belly landed, likely mostly intact before it burnt.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2020 6:40 utc | 117

I guess the only way to know if Michael D'Andrea was on the E-11A is if human bodies are found in the wreckage and skulls with intact teeth can be recovered and matched against known dental records.

Oh wait ... aren't US marines in possession of secret portable technology that can record, identify and verify a person's DNA, no matter how damaged that person's body may be from bomb explosions, from a distance?

Posted by: Jen | Jan 28 2020 7:15 utc | 118

I am not buying the death of Ayatollah Mike. It seems a little too convenient at the moment, wouldn't you guys say? The evil CIA mastermind went around flying an armored plane were he oversaw all of Afghanistan and concocted all his evil airstrikes... and finally he was taken out! The story is almost too perfect.

I'd say there is a good chance some spook died but what are the chances the king spook himself got taken out in such a manner? He is operating covertly. His whereabouts are not publicly known and wouldn't a sophisticated intelligence agency like the US have systems in place to keep the masterminds from getting their hands dirty? Either the intelligence used by the Taliban was exceptional, which would raise some questions about their capabilities and possible partners, or the US with all of it's technology and covert operation experience made amateurish tier mistakes. Anything is possible for sure, but what I find most likely is that some spook died and the US/optimists rooting for the end of the empire are running along with a feel good theory. I don't buy it. Yet.

Posted by: too perfect | Jan 28 2020 8:12 utc | 119

Jen:
DNA? No I don't think so but I could be wrong. I think that (if achieved/existing) it would (still) be a "deep black" technology not handed out for any soldier/grunt/MC "shotgunner" to use.

Atomic elements detection? Yes, at least if one considers up to a foot or 30 cm the distance.

Handheld "XRF" is civilian technology and looks like a very chunky barcode scanner with a pistol grip and small LCD screen on the back or similar. It comes in a small carry case not all that much bigger than an ordinary pistol case.

Many images from one manufacturer at some random "early search result" web shop (no idea why they use 911 in their name). The model(s) shown might be outdated (I saw some big "discontinued" graphic plastered on that web page when scrolling through it) or more limited than the ones I've seen.

I can easily imagine someone seeing such handheld XRF tools and then if they do not know what they are imagine them to be about DNA. However, and again I could be wrong, the problem is that DNA is highly complex without any sensible signature. The XRF would only see the relative amounts of chemical elements and not any structure which is what makes DNA unique. Even if by some "magic" a device of this kind could read DNA step by step (from any end or from the middle or whatever —a problem on its own) it would still be a very much more demanding job than "simply" identifying atoms.

I can be wrong but these handheld XRF analyzers (which are incredibly impressive) were what I immediately associated with your comment (possibly completely wrongly). I can guarantee that there is a lot of stuff I wouldn't know about :)

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 28 2020 8:41 utc | 120

@91

Easiest route for Afghan Taliban to obtain weapons is from Pakistani Taliban

The Pakistani 'Taliban' are not allies of the Afghan Taliban. They are creatures of America, like ISIS, and the name is chosen to confuse.

Posted by: sarz | Jan 28 2020 9:06 utc | 121

RE too perfect | Jan 28 2020 8:12 utc | 119 WHO CLAIMS "I am not buying the death of Ayatollah Mike"
That is it freedom lovers, some anonymous nobody from the depths of the amerikan devil says
CIA torturer & murderer in chief, D'Andrea is not dead. Oh no!, the axis of resistance best shut up shop 'n go home it's all over 'cos one of the indoctrinated ones says he/she "doesn't buy it".

Farcical, do these types even comprehend how they come across (are perceived) outside the land of the oppressor?

Posted by: A User | Jan 28 2020 9:13 utc | 122

PavewayIV #109

It beggars belief that the CIA would put D'Andrea on a BACN operations flight.

Not really. I can easily view a circumstance where D'Andrea might seek a direct conversation with a key operative deep inside Taliban territory. Given the tight valleys and immense difficulty USA has with VHF in that terrain they created this flying bacon burger. The deep operative would be fairly safe from his conversation being accurately detected let alone comprehended and D'Andrea could be confident of having a high level detailed talk.

Also: We get fed the line that there are high level talks between USA and Taliban with a view to the USA going home. Regardless of whether you or I believe that, it does seem that those talks are ongoing. So yes he may have been in that plane on way to an airborn rendezvous for a meeting via radio link with X.

It may have been a setup to lure him and the plane to its doom with the one and only high altitude SAM waiting for the order. That is what they did to Souleimani. The Taliban are just like the USA, they will do a dirty deal with anyone for a price.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 28 2020 9:25 utc | 123

Check out the company D'Andrea's wife was board member of: https://www.currimjee.com/about-currimjee-group/currimjee-team.html

Posted by: liveload | Jan 28 2020 9:47 utc | 124

"I have long wondered why the Russians have not paid back the US..." --dltravers @98

This is just a thought, but perhaps the Russians are not freak psycho killers who take immense joy in killing and revel in the "collateral damage"? Maybe projecting western "values" and motivations on them is a flawed approach to understanding their behavior. As incomprehensible as it may be to a westerner, maybe the Russians (Chinese too, for that matter) really do want peace in the world. Perhaps when Russians engage in humanitarian efforts, the "humanitarian" part isn't just a "Nudge nudge! Wink wink! Say no more!" euphemism for intended barbarism like it is with Americans and the British? As much as it may upend an "exceptional" westerner's entire worldview, consider the possibility that the Russians (and Chinese) really do mean what they say.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 28 2020 11:33 utc | 125

To head off the expected deflection from my post above of "Nuh-uh! Everybody is the same!" I would like to point out that claiming America's behavior is normal and a model for the world is equivalent to to saying obesity is normal and the model of good health and beauty. You can get away with that in America, but that notion doesn't get as much traction elsewhere.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 28 2020 11:45 utc | 126

Passer by @104: Anything "political" on Wikipedia is shamelessly manipulated all day long, and generally Jimmy refuses to take any responsibility, kind of like Facebook and political lying. So it is always information-wise "as-is". I gave them money once, but then I learned the situation, now I think they can pay for their own bullshit and Jimmy can get himself a real job.

And you can be surprised as to what turns out to be political.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 28 2020 11:51 utc | 127

Russian source, machine translation:

It became known about the death of a CIA officer who oversaw the attack on Suleimani

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 28 2020 12:01 utc | 128

It would be a great development for the world if US ability to wage anonymous sterile war from above could be curtailed.

Posted by: jared | Jan 28 2020 12:06 utc | 129

Interesting to see who died in the US plane that crashed or was shot down. The site "Veterans Today" today claimes one of the dead was the US terrorist CIA man who was the most responsible for the killing of general Souleimani

Posted by: Ou Si (區司) | Jan 28 2020 12:06 utc | 130

CIA man named

see

Victor Kuhnovets Retweeted
Iran
‏ @Iran
2h2 hours ago

.@CIA’s Michael D’ Andrea reportedly killed in US plane downing in Afghanistan

#Taliban #US #Afghanistan

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 12:17 utc | 131

If Russia and China, individually or jointly, wipe the United States and Israel off the face of the earth, the world will become better.

Posted by: Jean | Jan 28 2020 12:28 utc | 132

This is what happens when some countries don't have nuke capability. Imagine if someone would lease them - would have pros and cons.

Posted by: jared | Jan 28 2020 12:44 utc | 133

Jean | Jan 28 2020 12:28 utc | 132

Jean, does that make sense? One might change the names and test the logic. For example Napoleon might say that world would be better if he'd conquered Russia. Or a German nazi might say the world would be better without Jews.

But I am open to ideas. How would the "wiping" happen> Magic? Or bombs? Or what? Since it's expected that the US would fight back, how would hundreds or thousands of atomic explosions make anything better? Is there some secret plan?

The US did (maybe does) plan to wipe Russian off the map, since March of '44 at least. How would that go today? How would it go in say 1950...with perhaps 450 atomic explosions.

The boffins say that would result in murdering most of the people in the northern hemisphere.

There are no simple "solutions". No magic. No free lunch.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 12:51 utc | 134

@ Walter | Jan 28 2020 12:51 utc | 134

How about giving Occupied Palestine to its natives, and allowing the colonizers to go back to where they came from? That would "wipe" Israel off the world map. As for USA, the best would be to let states and groups of states reorganize as independent, sovereign countries. That too, would "wipe" USA off the word map. If that were to happen then the peace dividend for the entire world would be priceless!!

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Jan 28 2020 13:11 utc | 135

This puzzles me.

The EC-11A that went down seems, from the before crash photos of it, to be a very different configuration to the other three, like the one in the photo above.

In particular as it does not have the large antenna housing above and below the fuselage that are needed for its comms traffic relay mode. Perhaps its gear was all internal but that seems unlikely. Maybe this EC-11A was configured for a different function, one closer to its origin as a business jet.

Also, given their highly sensitive role, they had/have auto or remote self destruct capability for just this eventuality. Maybe hidden from the crew or sold as a benefit as they would not end up alive in enemy hands.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2020 13:15 utc | 136

"If Russia and China, individually or jointly, wipe the United States and Israel off the face of the earth, the world will become better." --Jean @132

If that could be done with some form of magic that didn't result in massive collateral damage to the rest of humanity, then yes, the world would become a better place. Neither the US nor Israel are moving humanity forward at the moment and are instead serving as absolute impediments to human progress, so if they were somehow "disappeared" from the mix then world would rapidly improve.

Unfortunately, that is like trying to wish away a gangrenous limb. Removing the diseased part necessarily involves excising healthy tissue as well, and so far that is not a price humanity is ready to pay. Certainly the Chinese and Russian don't want to. Even though they can see the necrosis spreading, they hold out hope that America can heal itself. That is ill-placed hope, in my opinion, but maybe Sanders can somehow make it to the White House without being assassinated by the CIA and will take Gabbard's counsel on international relations and curtail the violence of the Empire of Chaos... a long shot of miraculous proportions there, but who knows? Maybe miracles really can happen.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 28 2020 13:28 utc | 137

Walter @ 134

Your post is a stream of consciousness and nothing more.

The United States and Israel in its current form are an absolute evil for humanity. And this evil, like any evil, must be destroyed. The question is only in the form of destruction. Everything else is blah blah blah.

Posted by: Jean | Jan 28 2020 13:38 utc | 138

Nathan Mulcahy | Jan 28 2020 13:11 utc | 135

Ok, man, you go do that. I'll wait and see how the effort goes. Abrakavarra! and a one ana two...poof! ( pause ) Nope, still waiting. But perhaps the rapture will raise the worthy people of the indespensable empire to the heavens... If so I shall have my pick of fishing boats.

..............................................
In reality we have a perhaps hyperbolic and emotional claim that the affair of Afnamistan airplane and chopper fubar was a reverse double tap. Perhaps the Imperial Geniuses did not imagine that illiterate tribesmen would twig to the game.

fort ross > MAJOR: Taliban Shoot Down 2 US Aircraft; 34 US Soldiers Reportedly Killed

They say they got the rescue chopper with gun, presumably some sort of auto cannon. What a bunch of chumps...they seem to have misunderestimated the poverty-stricken illiterate tribes. Imperial hubris.

Seems the did a "Soleimani" on the cat what did the original ploy. Too bad, paybacks an all that.

Always ever so jolly.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 13:43 utc | 139

Walter@16:
He also wrote about the "talibs."

Posted by: Morongobill | Jan 28 2020 13:53 utc | 140

GadZooks Jean@132, what a whacky notion! So good of you to pop up out of nowhere and suggest something so radical. I'll bet the posters here are just itching to dog-pile on your suggestion and spew bile and vitriol all over the page. Come to think of it, I am reminded of a certain Iranian president who was quoted as saying he wanted to "wipe isreal off the map" except he didn't actually say that. It's funny how 'subjected to a referendum' can become 'wipe off the map' so easily isn't it?
Perhaps you could go post your single sentence run-on elsewhere for better results....

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 28 2020 13:54 utc | 141

just saw this according to

Veterans Today website, Russian intelligence says that Michael D’ Andrea, head of US intelligence operations against Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, and in charge of the CIA assassination programs in the Middle East, was also on that plane. D'Andrea is said to have led the US drone operation that assassinated top Iranian General Qassem Soleimani in Iraq.

anyone know anything about this..

Posted by: snake | Jan 28 2020 14:12 utc | 142

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan:

The recent battlefield victories of the Mujahideen of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan against the Air Force of the Americans are a proof that with the passage of time, more losses will be inflicted on the invaders and this time the they will no longer be able to use their air supremacy like they have been using it for the past two decades. The American aerial bombings have been viciously targeting civilians with very little battlefield losses caused to the Mujahideen. The proof of this is that the Americans have achieved nothing in the past 18 years despite dropping hundreds of thousands of bombs from their planes and committing war crimes through their air and ground campaigns.

http://alemarahenglish.com/?p=32085

Posted by: Mao | Jan 28 2020 14:28 utc | 143

Jean | Jan 28 2020 13:38 utc | 138

They say delusions stem from wishing, friend. Thanks for the thoughts and the sharing. I am so very glad to know that whatever one might say can be so easily discounted, but naturally it's an open game.

Do you have a book on Magic, or do you hear voices?

When you -presto- make America go away, does that include the guys in jail or the Red Indians living in hogans? I just want to be clear about the goal and the meaning of the hyperbole. How about the grand canyon?

When you wipe out Israel do you "do" also the other Semitic people there? Or do they somehow not die, but stand in a sterile desert?

I cannot agree to any proposal, real or imaginary, to murder hundreds of millions of people because of some idea of "justice", and I am shocked at the mere idea. You should be ashamed. I would myself be ashamed to advocate even a single killing, let alone murder. Does you parole officer know you have these ideas? Turn yourself in before you do anything silly, please!

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 14:29 utc | 144

Just picked up from Canthama's Twitter-zone that the Syrian Army has fully liberated Marat al Numa'an, and sappers are already at work removing mines and booby-traps that the Orcs have left behind.

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Jan 28 2020 14:56 utc | 145

I guess that in 10 years, probably all the people involved in the killing of Suleimani will be dead, and not by natural processes (but due to Iranian induced "processes"); from the drone operator to all the chain of command up to Trump himself.

May be in the future, in some years, a local newspaper in an small city have an small notice, that nobody pay attention, describing the obscure killing of an Iraq vet in unknown circunstances, but may be that man was the drone operator that killed Suleimani, or his lieutenant or...anyhow that doesn´t matter to anyone in the US then.

The Iranian intelligence is fully infiltrated inside all the Iraqi army units, so they probably now know all the chain of command involved in the murder of Suleimani, from the top to the bottom.

If I were Trump or Pompeo, I would fly in a B2, or any other stealth plane, to go to any place in the ME, because I think he is the bigger price in this hunt

Karma is a bitch

Posted by: DFC | Jan 28 2020 15:01 utc | 146

Walter aka Chevrus, and vice versa,

1) don’t you think that the USA and Israel are an absolute evil?

2) where did you get that destruction must be physically? No other means of destruction exist?

You better take a sedative, calm down and learn to control yourself. Nobody is going to destroy you physically. People still need clowns.

Posted by: Jean | Jan 28 2020 15:05 utc | 147

Posted by: Jean | Jan 28 2020 15:05 utc | 148

Dude, "you posited wipe off face of earth."

1) don’t you think that the USA and Israel are an absolute evil? (no)

2) where did you get that destruction must be physically? No other means of destruction exist? (from you, friend, and many thanks. Did you call your PO yet? Advocating wiping off face of earth is a war crime, you ought to realize what you have advocated - mass murder.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 15:16 utc | 148

Sources: Murderer of Soleimanai Killed With Spy Plane Shot ...

OMG… if this is true is is absolutely bloody awesome! They know when and where they will be and can take out the US terrorists as they please.

Congratulations to any and all countries involved in this. High 5.

Posted by: Affric | Jan 28 2020 15:17 utc | 149

Israel will only continue to exist in its present form until the US/ZATO is rendered incapable of defending it. Israel's nukes probably wouldn't get out of the silos/launchers before they were destroyed/disabled by much simpler ordinance like Iran used to attack the US base/CIA drone headquarters.

A totally WILD idea just popped into my head... what if D'Andrea was one of those who suffered fatal "head injuries" in the base attack. The CIA could have loaded some of those bodies onto the Challenger jet and then remote-controlled it over Afghanistan, where a small device was set to damage one engine, causing the crash. I'd guess this plane was not current state-of-the-art, and perhaps had sensitive gear removed.

Provides cover for the CIA op that killed Soleimani and disposes of the bodies outside the US military system, and puts the blame on the Taliban or simply "terrorists". That way the US can pretend the CIA drone base in Iraq didn't exist. I'd bet the SOFA with Iraq did not include allowing CIA black drone ops...

Posted by: A P | Jan 28 2020 15:17 utc | 150

EDIT: I should have said CIA/Mossad ops... makes even more sense to the secrecy/machinations, for if Israel was found to be responsible for Soleimani's assassination, Iran would be seen by the non-US/ZATO world as reasonable in going directly at Israel.

Odd that Nuttuyahoo just suddenly dropped his immunity attempt and was then formally charged with corruption. If Nutty was directly behind the assassination, maybe even Trumpty Dumbdy and the US deep State now see Nutty as a massive liability and has tossed him under the bus. Not that any likely PM replacements are any better than Nutty.

Posted by: A P | Jan 28 2020 15:31 utc | 151

My "voices" spoke to me: Said go Jayne check out the words of "Chalmers Johnson"...

Although not being one that munches on history or military books for lunch - Mr. Johnson truly opened my eyes on so many MIC topics that lead me down Alice in Wonderland's rabbit hole. Even he eluded to the fact that "economics" could not be the only "impulse" for these imperial misadventures as there were/are just far too many "anomalies"... Researching those "anomalies" can be quite a doozy - albeit a serious one.

Sorely missed. Wondering towards the end if he within himself recognized what 911 really was, and what he saw while working at the CIA that made him realize he was but a "spear carrier" for the powers that be. Total Respect.

Posted by: Jayne | Jan 28 2020 15:37 utc | 152

Bemildred @127:

My favorite Jimmy Wales anecdote pertains to Wikipedia's first major fundraising drive. Prior to that, the Jimmy Wales article on Wikipedia featured photos of all his sport cars. These were scrubbed just in time for the fund drive, wouldn't you know.

Posted by: corvo | Jan 28 2020 15:41 utc | 153

A most likely apocryphal story has FDR talking to the Saudi king about the need for a Jewish state because of the Jews' long history of suffering persecution. To which the King is supposed to have replied with something like: "If the Jewish state is to compensate for persecution, why not give the Jews Prussia or Bavaria?"

Posted by: corvo | Jan 28 2020 15:45 utc | 154

Sorry, #155 was in response to Nathan Mulcahy @135.

Posted by: corvo | Jan 28 2020 15:47 utc | 155

Are they not easy target of the Iran with EW if this is true that US building semi base near Iran

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/01/us-builds-several-new-bases-in-iraq-near-iran/

Posted by: ARN | Jan 28 2020 15:50 utc | 156

uncle tungsten @ 123

Very true, with a directional VHF antenna and given the terrain it could be very possible. A VHF radio in the hands of an informer would not create suspicion, a sat phone would. Anything is possible.

William Gruff 125

Given their past history of Marxism, war, and mass murder I would say maybe not. Any population can easily be stirred up in that direction with mass media manipulation. Russia seems to be very good at obtaining goals using as few resources as possible. The US cannot obtain their goals using massive resources in war. That is baked into their system.

This would seem be an opportune moment where some select anti aircraft systems passed on to the Taliban that would help to give a push out the door for the US. The Taliban used to operated aircraft and similar systems when they took control of the country after Russia left.

I always said, the Taliban ran the country when the US got there and will be running the country when the US leaves. Total failure will de disguised as a victory. The fools will eat it up.

Posted by: dltravers | Jan 28 2020 15:51 utc | 157

People keep coming up with new versions of the claim that D'Andrea was killed in the crash. Some Russian websites cite Irani websites who cite Veterans Today who claim to have got it from "Russian sources". Of course we are waiting to see D'Andrea in the flesh to put the lie to the claims. Maybe he will, maybe not. But I know how unreliable Gordon Duff is, so this is probably one of his capers, for reasons he knows best.


Posted by: sarz | Jan 28 2020 15:55 utc | 158

The real proof of Mike "The Dark Prince" D'Andrea's death will be if his US passport was found to be miraculously intact among the crash debris--much like Mohammed Atta's indestructible passport was found in the WTC debris after 9-11. ;-)

Posted by: ak74 | Jan 28 2020 16:09 utc | 160

Pompous Pompeo would only ask for a "ceasefire" or restraint to allow the CIA/Mossad to reorganize and rearm the black-ops and proxies (the Saudis/Clown Prince are probably finding it hard to justify any more direct operations), just like the same tactic in Syria anytime the SAA, Hezbolla and Russians made headway against the US/ZATO ISIS/etc. proxies.

Posted by: A P | Jan 28 2020 16:12 utc | 161

ARN @157: Re new bases close to Iran, no I wouldn't think that was a good idea, but the entire venture from 2003 on was not a good idea, why expect them to wise up now? Esp. with the current crop of clowns in charge. "When you elect clowns, expect circuses." They are spose to be fortifying the airbase Iran attacked too, and harassing the Russians in Syria, etc. They fear "looking weak". Strategy is not their game.

I think all of those "forward bases" look like handy closeby targets for Persian missiles and drones.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 28 2020 16:14 utc | 162

Piotr Berman, comment no 13, says:

"...who explained (to) technologically inept Iraqis how to build IEDs?"

Oh, right, Iraqis are too stupid to be able to cobble together explosives.

Racist much?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 28 2020 16:14 utc | 163

D'Andrea's Twitter is ended, I think. "@mikedandrea1 / account suspended."

Maybe they got the guy. Acting on delusions often results in kinetic encounters with reality. Pity. Adios, Mike. It's all been ever so swell.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 16:16 utc | 164

To corvo 155: Very likely apocryphal as Britain had, in true colonialist fashion, already handed Palestine to the Zionists with the Balfour Declaration. And the Saudi "royals" had been handed their perch by the Brits, so knew the procedure... FDR was too late to the party to change the main course of events on the Zionist theft of Palestine.

Posted by: A P | Jan 28 2020 16:20 utc | 165

A BRILJANT DISINFORMATION OPERATION!

The story about Michael D'Andrea being killed on the crashed plane is bogus. The Russian intelligence sources quoted are nothing more than Veterans Today. VT is not a "source", any more than Sorcha Faal or DEBKAfile. The three have never published anything that was true but not available from open sources at the time of publication.

But I agree, everyone would *like* the story to be true. Whoever invented it hit the nerve. It is too good not to be believed.

***

The self-quoting fake news merry-go-round has had some success. The Mirror in the UK has picked up the rumor.

Afghanistan plane crash: Soldiers and Taliban clash near site of 'downed' US jet

Meanwhile, Iranian state TV claimed a top CIA chief who orchestrated the assassination of an Iranian general was killed in the crash, without providing any evidence.

The CIA declined to comment on claims that Michael D’Andrea, who was involved in the hunt for Osama bin Laden and is nicknamed the "Dark Prince", was on board the jet and among those killed.

D'Andrea, the head of CIA operations against Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq, is said to have planned America's killing of Iranian General Qassem Soleimani, who was killed in a US drone strike in Baghdad earlier this month.

In a report on Tuesday, Iranian state media outlet Mizan, the mouthpiece for Tehran's Judiciary, claimed D'Andrea was among the dead.

The Veterans Today website, which has been accused of spreading Russian propaganda and reportedly had ties to Iran’s state-backed PressTV in the past, also claimed D'Andrea was killed, citing unnamed Russian intelligence sources.

But a source told Mirror Online of the reports: "It's just propaganda."

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 28 2020 16:51 utc | 167

Below is a short quote from a recent Reuters posting about the crash

"
Zabiullah Mujahid, a Taliban spokesman, said Afghan forces backed by U.S. military support had tried to capture the area around the crashed aircraft and clashed with fighters of the Islamist militant group.

The attempt was repelled, he told Reuters, but the Taliban would allow a rescue team access to recover bodies from the crash site.

“Taliban fighters on the ground counted six bodies at the site of the U.S. airplane crash,” he said, adding that while there could have been more, the militant group could not be certain, as fire had reduced everything to ashes.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, U.S. officials said the plane was carrying fewer than five people when it crashed, with one official saying initial information showed there were at least two.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2020 16:51 utc | 168


@ by: Walter 139

My comment was about what I mean by “wiping USrael off the map”, rather than how. Both a goal and the how are important, but a big distinction is that the latter one should be more flexible than the first one. I am sure many of us have ideas on how the goal could/should be achieved, but if you are expecting a patent solution then you are being irrational.

Something else. Most things we take for granted today were once considered impossible. Those things, both in technology and society, became real because enough people believed in the goal and tried many “hows” until the impossible became possible.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Jan 28 2020 17:18 utc | 169

Piotr Berman, comment no 13, says:

"...who explained (to) technologically inept Iraqis how to build IEDs?"

Oh, right, Iraqis are too stupid to be able to cobble together explosives.

Racist much?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 28 2020 16:14 utc | 164

I was explaining how colonialists phrase questions and answers. The idea that Persians had to explain Iraqi Arabs how to make IED justified the murder of Suleimani, and it belongs to colonialist thinking that was classifying lesser cultures as apt in inept on various matters.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 28 2020 17:22 utc | 170

@ Jean 148
I am not also know as Walther, nor am I obligated to answer the questions you posed.
"You better take a sedative, calm down and learn to control yourself." This sentence clearly marks you as an agent provocateur
Again: you might have more success on other sites, where posters are more reactionary.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 28 2020 17:34 utc | 171

About crashes...maybe shootdown, maybe sabotage. Whatever, but they were looking for the chopper and killed it. People at Pet-a-gone maybe should read Winnie's stories about afnamistan and the illiterate tribesmen who defeated UK.

Nathan Mulcahy | Jan 28 2020 17:18 utc | 170

Thanks. I am amused to see the waffle. So "wiping off the map" is not what was meant, but only what was written. This makes critical assessment of semantic value somewhat problematic. I get the idea though - say whatever one wants and imagine it means whatever you want, even when it does not say that. Very good! You'll get an "A" in Rhetoric if you can persuade the Professor about that. Perhaps a career in Law...try this in Contracts..."Oh, yes, that's what I signed, but I meant something else, or at least I do now."

Wipe off the face of the map means what it says. It is mass murder. Also non-achievable save by magic, ie delusion. But perhaps you have the idea that the millions might simply be shot dead one at a time. Either way, it advocates a vast crime. It's about what the German Policy toward the Soviets was...so you're in fine company there, Friend.

Men must work with things the way they are. The nazis, despite the "wiping" were never entirely, or even materially, defeated. We the living must work with the realities as they exist, friend.

And Israel is one thing. The US another. These are distinct from the intelop we often call "zionism", which will deteriorate rapidly when the vast sums that support it stop being delivered. Similarly, the Empire will retreat as finance dictates. Many say that will bring about the factionalization into geographic regions in North America. Szilard seems to have thought so, and so did Wm Pfaff. Panarin and, I think, Dugan have expressed ideas along such lines. Looks more like auto-destruct due to incipient flaw in design - no wiping, but ketosis, self-digestion.

There is no need, nor practical method, to "wipe" anything off the map, though blood-thirsty emotions may entice criminal minds to endorse such murder.

"Never threaten" is pretty basic to finding happiness and justice. Good luck.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 17:52 utc | 172

I'm going to post the link for this curious Joaquin Flores essay "Understanding Trump on Iran--The Impeachable End of Trans-Atlanticism" since it's related to the reason why--control of Eurasia--the Evil Outlaw US Empire's in Afghanistan. Curious because of the manner in which Flores treats the subject--zooming in and out time- and policy-wise thus providing a different perspective. It stands in contrast to what I'll call a companion piece, "A Pax Americana or a Republic If You Can Keep It?" by Cynthia Chung, which is also a curious essay. Her approach is similar to one I had not long after the Iraq invasion of 2003.

As for removing Occupied Palestine and the Outlaw US Empire from the map of time forever, most barflies know that I endorse such events, but would rather they occur with the least amount of war as possible, although with the Oligarchy involved, the use of nukes cannot be ruled out.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 28 2020 19:00 utc | 173

Walter 173: Perhaps "wiping off the map" means genocide TO YOU, but as pointed out several times here, it doesn't necessarily mean the same to others.

The US and Israel are joined at the hip, the US taking over post-WW2 from Britain as military/economic guarantor of Zionism/Israel, aided and abetted by the Zionist Israel-Firster lobby and factions in the US gov't/spying cabal.

The US POPULATION may not be 100% pro-Zionist, but functionally the US and Israeli gov'ts are working in lockstep for the Yinon Plan, with the US not always in charge of the agenda.

I guess the Hasbara-types have learned to be more subtle here at MoA, following the Israel Project's
"2009 Global Language Dictionary". All MoA readers and posters should familiarize themselves with this document, as it outlines the propaganda tricks used so often in comment sections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Project
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2014/08/global-language-dictionary/

Posted by: A P | Jan 28 2020 19:01 utc | 174

@all - Please stop the speculating that the plane which has crashed in Afghanistan carried some high CIA honcho. There is no serious source for that rumor and zero evidence to support such a claim.

Posted by: b | Jan 28 2020 19:11 utc | 175

I, for one, will not accept that Michael D'Andrea was killed in that crash until it's confirmed by Afghan officials that one of their top-notch military death squads removed D'Andrea's remains and promptly buried them at sea in accordance with custom.

Posted by: Ort | Jan 28 2020 19:17 utc | 176

Walter I believe that the translation was more like "Israel will disappear in the sands of time".

Which was presented in the west as "wiped off the map".

Posted by: arby | Jan 28 2020 19:18 utc | 177

@karlof1 | #173

I thoght Trump has not any plan, just trying to destry everything Obama did. All the complaine from folks working with him telling he has No plan

Posted by: ARN | Jan 28 2020 19:20 utc | 178

I am again amused to see the waffle.

Conjure what you wish. Imagine words mean whatever you like, and change that as you will. This is what we see in Roadrunner cartoons and children's games, is it not?.

As I have said clearly, Empire is in ketosis. When it stops, the zionist agency (an intel-op) will also fail due to lack of support. One does realize that the implications are that there will be an accommodation in Palestine, probably including a vast murder spree. But it's another matter to advocate "wiping".

I recall a man who cried fire, and caused a killing panic, and then said he meant something else. That did not work out terribly well.

There is no possibility of wiping, nor any need. Empire in auto-destruction without the slightest need for any help along the way.

Kindly explain though, what is/are " Hasbara-types? ". If you wish to call names, and aim ad hominem at Walter, kindly make your accusations, if any, clear, and do not waffle. Please understand that ad hominem is the hall-mark of failure in logical argument, as everyone knows.

Posted by: Walter | Jan 28 2020 19:21 utc | 179

Our resident expert on Rhetoric, Walter: thanks. I am amused to see the waffle. So "wiping off the map" is not what was meant, but only what was written. This makes critical assessment of semantic value somewhat problematic. I get the idea though - say whatever one wants and imagine it means whatever you want, even when it does not say that. Very good! You'll get an "A" in Rhetoric

Good rhetoric, Walter, but is it factual? "not what was meant, but only what was written", but -- who wrote it and who meant it? Ahmedinajad did not write it, and arguably, he did not mean it. What he said was that "[something] with vanish from the pages of history", and [something] arguably referred to Israel. However, to figure out what it means, one needs some context to address this question: why and how Israel was predicted to vanish. In the translation of a speech that I have read, President was exhorting Iranian to make the best observance of Ramadan ever, implying that the divine agency that he believes in may reward the faithful for their piety and righteous conduct. A close-minded secular person may assume that some direct human effort was propose toward this end because only a religious lunatic could mean something else.

A more open-minded secular person would seriously consider that sane religious people may think differently. For example, many important religious leaders in Israel who sympathetic to the cause of "biblical scholars" who numbered many thousands and were exempt from military service on that account and getting some social benefit, irritating to end "secular" part of Israeli public. They claimed that prayer and the study of divine law, the Torah is more important than military efforts. In their belief, Israel may cease to exists if Israeli Jews turn against G..d, e.g. by slacking on Shabbat observances, and abandoning the special regard for studying the Bible, Thorah etc. present a serious danger.

In my opinion, the thinking of Ahmedinejad was "functionally equivalent".

To summarized, what "was written" was a LOOSE TRANSLATION, interpreted through the lens of secular thinking and a great dollop of negative assumptions.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 28 2020 19:32 utc | 180

The story about D'Andrea appears to be picking up steam and hasn't been debunked.

The original speculation centered on a possibility that the plane was taken down by a missile attack, but it does appear to be a controlled crash-landing. Could a bomb have been planted on board? Or mechanical sabotage? Those possibilities seem just as likely as a missile reaching this particular aircraft.

Posted by: Carson | Jan 28 2020 19:49 utc | 181

ARN @178--

Does Trump have a plan other than undoing all that Obama did? Well, one thing Obama did was to bailout the fraudulent bankers, throw millions out of their homes in that choice and then rewarded them with billions of dollars. That's one very big part of Obama's legacy Trump has studiously not disturbed but instead has actually exacerbated by giving them even more billions. For me to say definitively that Trump has any sort of plan, I'd need to interview him thus the pertinent questions I know would be asked. The Outlaw US Empire has one specific, announced, #1 policy goal: Establish Full Spectrum Dominance over the planet and its people. Trump has yet to repudiate that policy and instead seems to have embraced it regardless his campaign rhetoric.

What we see happening is more akin to what Ms. Chung writes about in her companion essay, but it unfortunately suffers from zero economic or related political-economic analysis--including her review of Roman history--which IMO is at the very heart of the matter both then and now. As I said, I had a similar working hypothesis 15+ years ago, but it was incomplete just as is her essay. What both lack is the economic background to the whys, which is what I've been working on since. The answers are now available thanks to Dr. Hudson's and colleagues's research into the past workings of economies, their treatment of debt, and the rise of oligarchies based on land- and Rentier-based wealth: Essentially the same problem we face today. IMO, this paraphrasing of Machiavelli setting up Chung's conclusion is critical:

"Machiavelli said, that if a system is corrupt it depends on two things as to whether it will be doomed to collapse or not, firstly whether it was always corrupt or had become corrupted and secondly if the people were past a point of salvation. If the system was good at its origins, and the people had some imprint of that remaining, there would be hope that that system could still turn itself around." [My Emphasis]

Unfortunately, the reality is far more complex. The system's corrupt and was from its outset, but not all the people within the system are/were corrupt. (Even that formula's too simple, but it's generally correct.) IMO, the only way to avoid a planetary catastrophe--nuclear war--is for the people of the USA to force a withdrawal from its overseas empire and alter the fundamental nature of its political-economy to something along the lines of the Constitution's Preamble. Other nations can aide the US public by applying pressure, but the reality is it's up to us just as it was up to the Romans. (Their failure was in a very different context.)

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 28 2020 19:59 utc | 182

Re: the future of Israel in the longterm

I think Israel, in the longterm, will have the same fate that the Christian Jerusalem
Kingdom in the Middle Ages, and this is not a political judgment about if they jews living there "deserve" this or that future, but I think the situation of the modern Israeli state have many many similarities with the "Outramer" (overseas) Jerusalem Christian medieval Kingdom.

Both, Outramer and Israel were supported by a continuous stream of money, technology, weapons, and manpower to the exactly the same shores in the East Mediterranean. It was the gigantic commitment of all the western aristocracy of that time what could sustain this "foreign" state sorrounded by an hostile sea of muslim people; when this support started to wane, the fate of the Kingdom was sealed.

Israel was sustained by two anglo-saxon empires that give them almost unconditional and unlimited support, and the sustainability of Israel in a sea of Arab states, will end when the US Empire collapses and leave the ME, and this is not a matter of "if" but of "when".

OK, Israel, if military sorrounded and defeated or by mere fear, could bomb with nukes all the arab capitals, but anyone in the world think this is a good idea for the future of the jews living in Israel those days? This is the only situation when the sentence
"wiping-off" of Israel could make sense, this would be an Israeli suicide, anyhow I think this will be very unlikely to happen, people trend to their self-preservation even in the worst moment, and as the muslims in the Middle Age when they recover Palestine, or in the future, there were and will be no "holocaust" of christians or jews or anything similar; simply they will live under an arab rule, and many of them will leave


Posted by: DFC | Jan 28 2020 20:29 utc | 183

There are claims that Michael D'Andrea, aka 'ayatollah mike', was in the USAF plane that crashed in Afghanistan. A C_A employee, D'Andrea was supposedly involved in Solemeini's assassination and in killing a Hezbollah higher up back in 2008.
This is according to mideastmonitor.com
I'm not familiar with this outlet, don't know who funds it and have no idea how reliable they are. I treat it as a possibility but not conclusive. I am interested in seeing how other media portray this event.
Interesting times.

Posted by: dorje | Jan 28 2020 21:17 utc | 184

Sunny Runny Burger @ 120:

I was being facetious in my question @ 118.

Thanks for the information about the handheld XRF analyser though.

There are indeed portable DNA analysers though they are either bulky and can't be completely held in one hand or they still need to be plugged into a laptop to analyse information and do comparisons.

A portable Lab-in-a-Box sounds fine but ideally you wouldn't want to unpack the box, set up the equipment, do your work, pack everything back into the box and leave the scene with the risk of leaving an important component behind.

The real problem though is being able to locate and extract undamaged DNA that can be analysed from a body damaged by heat, metal shrapnel and the force caused by an explosion, if nothing else (like a skull with intact teeth) is available. You'd also need to have some of the victim's DNA already on file or a member of the victim's family able to supply DNA for comparison.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 28 2020 21:39 utc | 185

The afghan governemnt complaint some days ago about Iranian rockets in the hands of Taliban, so may be there are also some AA missiles...

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170124-afghan-officials-accuse-iran-of-supplying-taliban-with-rockets/

Posted by: DFC | Jan 28 2020 21:58 utc | 186

I have 30 years of military and civil flying under my belt. This E-11A incident looks to me like a crash landing, not a shootdown. If it had been shot down from normal operating altitude (say 20,000 feet or more) all you'd see is a pile of twisted metal and not much else. Same thing if crew ran it into a mountain. Aside from post crash fire the aircraft looks fairly intact. If wreckage is not already blown up it will be soon.

Posted by: Vic | Jan 28 2020 22:03 utc | 187

@ Walter 172

Can you see the difference between wiping “off the face of the map” and “off the face of the earth?. But you are probably too busy misinterpreting other people’s comments.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Jan 28 2020 22:11 utc | 188

Vic

Looked to me like it had been landed. What is odd though is no announcement by the US that it had come down due to tech problems. Nothing on a rescue effort. Makes me thing it has been hit but the pilot managed to get it down. Pics of some bodies at the scene but also a bit about some of the crew getting out.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2020 22:15 utc | 189

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 28 2020 16:51 utc | 167

A BRILJANT DISINFORMATION OPERATION!

The story about Michael D'Andrea being killed on the crashed plane is bogus. The Russian intelligence sources quoted are nothing more than Veterans Today. VT is not a "source", any more than Sorcha Faal or DEBKAfile. The three have never published anything that was true but not available from open sources at the time of publication.

I have had another look at the sources for the story. It seems that this tweet by @Brasco_Aad is the first and only source for the claim that Michael D'Andrea was on board the plane. Everything else, including the Veterans Today story and reporting on Iranian TV is noice in the echo chamber.

Unconfirmed reports that the CIA head of anti-Iran operations, Michael D'Andrea aka Ayatollah Mike, was on board the plane that crashed near Ghazni, Afghanistan this morning.

D'Andrea also masterminded the murder of Imad Mughniyeh, former Hezbollah Chief of Staff, back in 2008.

— Brasco_Aad (@Brasco_Aad) January 27, 2020 18:48 UTC

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 28 2020 22:23 utc | 190

Below is a Reuters link that I will provide some take away quotes from

U.S. military recovers remains from Afghanistan plane crash

The take away quotes
"
WASHINGTON/KABUL (Reuters) - The United States on Tuesday recovered the remains of two personnel from a U.S. military aircraft that crashed in Afghanistan, American and Afghan officials told Reuters.
.........
Earlier on Tuesday, Afghan forces and Taliban fighters clashed in a central region where the U.S. military plane crashed as the government tried to reach the wreckage site in a Taliban stronghold.
...............
The statement said that the remains were “treated with dignity and respect by the local Afghan community.”

The forces recovered what is believed to be the flight data recorder and the destroyed remnants of the plane.
.......
“The cause of the crash remains under investigation, however there are no indications the crash was caused by enemy fire,” the statement added.
........
The official said the aircraft had been carrying no other individuals apart from the two service members.

Ghazni provincial police chief, Khalid Wardak, told Reuters that two bodies were airlifted by U.S. forces from the crash site on Tuesday.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2020 22:31 utc | 191

psychohistorian
I hadn't seen that one. Interesting though that it is supposedly the Afghan government that was trying to reach the crash site.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2020 23:14 utc | 192

@ arby | Jan 28 2020 19:18 utc | 177

"Walter I believe that the translation was more like "Israel will disappear in the sands of time".

Which was presented in the west as "wiped off the map".

What Ahmadinejad actually said was "the regime that currently rules in Israel must disappear from the pages of time."

And yes, the West deliberately misquoted him, and does to this day.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jan 28 2020 23:34 utc | 193

@190 Petri Krohn

The Taliban have also directly stated through a spokesman that "high-ranking CIA officers" were on the plane, but did not mention D'Andrea's name specifically. https://twitter.com/Zabehulah_M33/status/1221793698436079616

Here is their statement in Pashto run through Google Translate:

Ghazni US occupation plane crashes, many senior officers killed
A special aircraft of the American occupants was flying in the area for the purpose of an intelligence mission in the Sadukhil area of ​​Dehk district of Ghazni province.

In this development, the entire crew of the aircraft and several senior US CIA officers were killed.

It is worth mentioning that recently in Helmand, Balkh and some other areas, enemy planes and enemy planes have been fired by Mujahidin.

The body of the aircraft and the dead body of the deceased are still in the area.

Zabihullah Mujahid Spokesman of the Islamic Emirate

1/3 h

1/1/2 AH 2020/1/27 M

Posted by: Eric | Jan 28 2020 23:42 utc | 194

Eric @194--

Thanks for providing that. It was one of the many tweets I saw last night which I referred to earlier on the first page of this thread. I also saw another cryptically worded tweet saying that there were survivors who were collected by the initial group of Taliban that arrived. All known descriptions I read contradict the Outlaw US Empire's statement that only two died. Also as per the absence of external antennae, the airplane's hulk seems absent electronic gear if it was indeed the sort of plane it's alleged to be. Currently a select few know the truth; b thinks it poppycock. I merely reported as I do always. I also wrote how this and another rumor could be quashed by their central subjects being revealed alive.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 29 2020 0:03 utc | 195

Perhaps Michael D'Andrea suffered from a "headache" after the Iraq base hit, so the plane story had to be arranged?

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 29 2020 4:53 utc | 196

Is this the thread where one updates the number of US military Iraq TBI victims from 34 to 50?

When are they going to admit maybe a few died?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 29 2020 6:49 utc | 197

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2020 13:15 utc | @136

"Also, given their highly sensitive role, they had/have auto or remote self destruct capability for just this eventuality. Maybe hidden from the crew or sold as a benefit as they would not end up alive in enemy hands."

That's probably where the fire came from. Those still alive after the crash-landing bailed and then ignited the fire.

Posted by: trill | Jan 29 2020 7:38 utc | 198

Posted by: DFC | Jan 28 2020 20:29 utc | 183

i came to the same conclusion about a decade ago. used to believe in the return of "God's Chosen People" to the Holy Land, but most of that is based on false teaching and purposely misused prophecy. check out Chuck Baldwin (https://libertyfellowshipmt.com), who sorts out the christian-zionist false teaching. God's Chosen People are the born-again Christians of all races, and there is no plan for modern israel in the bible. i think the zionists know this, which is why they insist that everyone recognise the "right of israel to exist". this always struck me as such a strange demand.

Posted by: trill | Jan 29 2020 7:48 utc | 199

It is interesting that the mass media like the BBC, CNN , ABC Fox and the rest did not report the plane crash for hours and then when finally it was all over social media and RT and local news they put a small paragraph hidden under world news. The US Airforce also put a short tweet out but nothing further and the story then disappeared. The video and pictures clearly show damage to the right side engine and the tail of the plane which are not related to the crash.

Posted by: Fin | Jan 29 2020 8:05 utc | 200

« previous page | next page »

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Working...