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January 23, 2020
Open Thread 2020-06
News & views …
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The murder of Soleimani was not a one-off: it will be the policy to take out leaders and US vassals dare not speak up: Murder and Sanctions (aka “Financial Warfare” ) is what they do.
Yes and soon. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2020 15:29 utc | 1 How long can Haftar take the oil out of play before oil prices start to rise? Posted by: casey | Jan 23 2020 15:29 utc | 2 @casey #2 Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 15:36 utc | 3 Colombia Reports: Despite violent incidents in Bogota and Medellin, anti-government protests resumed peacefully throughout Colombia and are expected to expand despite sabotage attempts. Posted by: Maracatu | Jan 23 2020 15:40 utc | 4 @Likklemore No 1. Posted by: Beibdnn | Jan 23 2020 15:44 utc | 5 and the memory of elliot abrams excusing and justifying and denying the massacres during the reagan administration probably resonates, too. Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 23 2020 16:05 utc | 6 According to the US diplomat, President Trump has made it very “clear that any attack on Americans or American interests will be met with a decisive response, which the president demonstrated on January 2”. Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 23 2020 16:06 utc | 8 Anyone else wonder about the “coincidence” that the new Coronavirus outbreak in China happens JUST before the Lunar New Year? Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 16:09 utc | 9 Hoping against hope Bernie was shifting with his foreign policy views. Not the case:: Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 23 2020 16:10 utc | 10 bernie fp positions in many cases really bother me, especially buying into the various russiagate theories. i don’t think he’s a sheepdog, but then i’m left with the alternative that he is still naive and gullible about some aspects of the u.s. neither is really palatable. still, i hope for a bernie presidency and tulsi becoming sos, where she could do a lot of good. Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 23 2020 16:14 utc | 11 @ AP, post #9 Posted by: occupatio | Jan 23 2020 16:16 utc | 12 Trump’s Katyusha Conundrum Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 23 2020 16:22 utc | 13 How long can Haftar take the oil out of play before oil prices start to rise? Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 23 2020 16:25 utc | 14 Posted by: Beibdnn | Jan 23 2020 15:44 utc | 5 Posted by: xLemming | Jan 23 2020 16:25 utc | 15 pretzelattack @ 11 Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 23 2020 16:28 utc | 16 well if bernie does win, he can appoint her. he needs a good vp, too–not somebody like lieberman, or some other shill. the ptb much prefer character assassination to the real thing, imo. it’s easy to arrange hits in prison, and maybe the odd senator in a small plane. presidents and sos are another matter imo, and people are wiser to them, now. the mighty wurlitzer is their weapon of choice, and people are increasingly skeptical of that, too. Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 23 2020 16:35 utc | 17 IMHO, the contest between rightwing and leftwing activists is so skewed by money that it is becoming a joke.
Interestingly, both of these “conferences” had the odious Peter Thiel as a speaker, rallying the troops, seeing if there are any sufficiently rabid looney-tunes he can fund to cause trouble.
Posted by: john brewster | Jan 23 2020 16:42 utc | 18 I don’t understand how a city of 11 million people can be quarantined. And now BBC is reporting a second city of 6 million named Huanggang is “on lockdown” (BBC’s words). Public transit is closed – everyone lives within walking distance of food stores? Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jan 23 2020 16:48 utc | 19 An excellent article (by NYT standards). Strongly recommend reading it:
So, when the USA does it, it isn’t “totalitarianism”, but “national security”. pretzelattack @ 17 Posted by: Kabobyak | Jan 23 2020 16:56 utc | 21 #18 John Brewster: Posted by: corvo | Jan 23 2020 16:57 utc | 22 To occupatio: We know that the US/ZATO is in the weaponized pathogen development business. The US has set up “plausible deniablility” black bio-weapons production sites in former Eastern Bloc countries, and the UK still runs Porton Downs, not far from the Skripal “poisoning” location. Israel also has bio/chemical-weapon labs. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 16:57 utc | 23 Trailer trash @ 19 Posted by: john brewster | Jan 23 2020 16:59 utc | 24 Corvo @ 21 Posted by: john brewster | Jan 23 2020 17:06 utc | 25 >My question to MoA is: Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jan 23 2020 17:15 utc | 26 Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 16:57 utc | 22
They have been doing this for a long, long time at Porton Down. Not living in the UK, I first became aware of it in 1979 via a song called “Porton Down” by Peter Hammill. An excerpt from the lyrics gives it away Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2020 17:20 utc | 27 “Only if they are ignorant of how start-ups work.” Posted by: Per/Norway | Jan 23 2020 17:30 utc | 28 #24 John Brewster: Posted by: corvo | Jan 23 2020 17:35 utc | 29 Like how we made Israel pay when it wantonly killed Rachel Corrie? All Iran has to do is kill an American to gets lots of money, weapons and military/diplomatic cover? Posted by: paul | Jan 23 2020 17:35 utc | 30 Trailer Trash @ 25
Oh, I completely agree. Sorry to hear of your startup experience. (I played “you bet your career” five times. Never made a dime from stock options. One company imploded within two weeks of my arriving.)
This whole libertarian racket is, as Sheldon Wolin says, “Inverted Marxism” with downtrodden CEOs instead of workers. Posted by: john brewster | Jan 23 2020 17:36 utc | 31 The Big Picture is unfolding… Great series start by Yasha Levine: Posted by: Seer | Jan 23 2020 17:38 utc | 32 @pretzelattack #11 Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 17:39 utc | 33 Trailer Trash @ 25
Not that I disagree with your take on the matter, but what is one to do? IIRC, you have gone into the far boonies of California. I’m just too urban/effete for that. Posted by: john brewster | Jan 23 2020 17:40 utc | 34 @Trailer Trash #25 Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 17:43 utc | 35 Today finds Putin, Lavrov and a sizable Russian delegation in Occupied Palestine attending the World Holocaust Forum and the dedication of a monument in memorial tribute to the million people who died during the siege of Leningrad. The recent attempts to rewrite WW2 history to deflect responsibility were made visible at MoA mostly via comments. One of the more important facts of the matter was noted by Putin: Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 23 2020 17:44 utc | 36 Despite the establishment and media shenanigans designed to hurt Sanders, despite Hillary and Warren’s attempts to turn women against Sanders: Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2020 17:46 utc | 37 “The Iraqi Shia, 66% of the 40 million Iraqi population, are expressing their hatred towards US forces in particular and all foreign forces in general. Iraq would like to see these forces depart for good, putting an end to US influence in Mesopotamia and West Asia. A massive protest has been organised for this Friday 24th January, led by Sayyed Moqtada al-Sadr, who is warning the US of the consequences of ignoring this Parliamentary decision. It is expected to be the most massive protest in the history of Iraq. But this protest is only the beginning.” Posted by: Bruce | Jan 23 2020 18:02 utc | 38 karlof1 @ 35 Posted by: Seer | Jan 23 2020 18:03 utc | 39 Circe @ 36 Posted by: Seer | Jan 23 2020 18:11 utc | 40 Haftar is a US citizen and has ties to the CIA. The USA’s position on Libya is unclear to me. I am not sure the US government is supporting any side. Turkey is the only country I see providing support to Tripoli. It seems to me the usual suspects either back Haftar or are watching from the sidelines. Posted by: goldhoarder | Jan 23 2020 18:17 utc | 41 @Norwegian Posted by: Hammy Peters | Jan 23 2020 18:23 utc | 42 c1ue@3 Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2020 18:28 utc | 43 >This is the most critical U.S. election in our lifetime Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jan 23 2020 18:30 utc | 44 Sanders needs to choose a running mate who is less congenial to the powers that be than he is. JFK’s mistake was choosing LBJ as running mate, so he lacked that insurance against assassination. Posted by: lysias | Jan 23 2020 18:34 utc | 45 Likklemore @1 Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 18:36 utc | 46 karlof1 @ 35 Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 18:46 utc | 47 Thank you james and Robert Snefjella for your replies last week concerning Gwynne Dyer. Here is a recent offering of his for everyone to “enjoy”. Posted by: tucenz | Jan 23 2020 18:48 utc | 48 pretzelattack @11 Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 18:49 utc | 49 Yes Jackrabbit, it is called Disaster Capitalism… never let a crisis (real or manufactured) go to waste… Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 18:49 utc | 50 Laguerre@14 Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2020 18:54 utc | 51 Haftar is a US citizen and has ties to the CIA. Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 23 2020 18:56 utc | 52 “Haftar has clearly switched sides” Other some Western press making a bit of noise I see no evidence of this. In fact the opposite. Any drone strike attempts on Haftar you can link me to? LOL. Don’t pay attention to what the press says. Pay attention to who is getting bombed and who is not. At the end of the day that is how you tell the truth. Posted by: goldhoarder | Jan 23 2020 19:05 utc | 53 pretzel attack @11 Posted by: Chas | Jan 23 2020 19:05 utc | 54 The media is going to try to get revenge on Tulsi for upsetting their plan to bring Bernie down, expect a massive negative reaction to Tulsi going after Hillary yesterday (Gaslighting Tulsi). Posted by: Kali | Jan 23 2020 19:09 utc | 55 It is interesting how the media was ramping up a massive anti-Bernie campaign with Warren attacking him and Hillary attacking and then Tulsi Gabbard does what she can to counter their attacks Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Jan 23 2020 19:13 utc | 56 @AP and occupatio: And I thought I was just being paranoid, knowing Wuhan is the largest recipient of French FDI as well as the site of other large FDI investments and remembering the Soviet small outbreak of smallpox resulting from plankton infected by an accidental spill . . . Posted by: Zee | Jan 23 2020 19:14 utc | 57 The Pentagon made $35 trillion in accounting adjustments last year alone—a total that’s larger than the entire U.S. economy Posted by: Mao | Jan 23 2020 19:17 utc | 58 @Jon_in_AU #51 Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 19:18 utc | 59 Posted by: Seer | Jan 23 2020 17:38 utc | 32 Posted by: tucenz | Jan 23 2020 19:18 utc | 60 Seer @38– Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 23 2020 19:26 utc | 61 The amount of TINA worshipers and status quo guerillas is starting to depress me. Posted by: Per/Norway | Jan 23 2020 19:31 utc | 62 Carson @ 47 Posted by: Montreal | Jan 23 2020 19:33 utc | 63 The idea that Bernie will “take on the CIA, deep state, etc.” is a fantasy. He refuses to even protect residents of his hometown of Burlington, VT from harmful levels of noise from F-35 warplanes:
Burlington residents have already endured extreme noise from F-16s for the past 30 years. The F-16s are being retired, only to be replaced with new jets that are four times louder. That’s progress for ya! Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jan 23 2020 19:35 utc | 64 Happy birthday to John Boyd, a truly Great American Hero! Posted by: Charles R | Jan 23 2020 19:45 utc | 65 In fact the opposite. … Don’t pay attention to what the press says. Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 23 2020 19:47 utc | 66 @Per/Norway #62 Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 19:50 utc | 67 Montreal @63 Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 19:52 utc | 68 @tucenz #60: Posted by: corvo | Jan 23 2020 19:53 utc | 69 Posted by: Hammy Peters | Jan 23 2020 18:23 utc | 42 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2020 19:53 utc | 70 The Jewish Progressive Agenda According to Bernie Sanders
The ideology of the Empire is Exceptionalism and Zionism is a key pillar. Zionists take pains to draw parallels between USA and Israel as divinely-inspired settler states. Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 19:56 utc | 71 corvo #22 Posted by: Really?? | Jan 23 2020 19:57 utc | 72 Funny I mentioned Porton Down/Skripal proximity. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 19:57 utc | 73 Yes, many here want Gabbard but she is not viable in the race since she has not gained any traction. <- Circe I contributed to her campaign, but realistically, because we need a visible, telegenic, articulate person to champion sane foreign policy, end of wars, sanctions etc. For Sanders, these issues are quite a bit afterthought. After Hillary, with her uncanny sense of politics, said "nobody likes him [Sanders]", Tulsi twitted #I_like_Sanders. For an official position, one has to consider that she has a lot of common sense, but education and managerial experience is not that impressive. Ambassador to UN would be perfect, low on management and large in communication. Given visibility of the position, it would be a powerful signal that USA changes the policy. Anyway, to truly feel deplorable one has to contribute to Tulsi. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 23 2020 19:58 utc | 74 Tulsi Gabbard is the only sane candidate to show up to date. That makes her unelectable, even more so than her non-Anglo, non-African heritage and religion. Plus she is still an active Reserve soldier, which will scare the willies out of the Pentagram. I wonder how many current US generals have actual front-line, battle experience (and not just directing the action from behind the lines or 1000s of miles away). We know virtually none in Congress have any actual combat experience. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 20:05 utc | 75 Don’t get me wrong, I like Gabbard for VP, she’s a fighter, she would be great, but I’m just worried that she’s the establishment Dems whipping child, and has been branded a Russiabot. She’s very misunderstood. Sanders should secure the Presidency before bringing her on. Not sure. Nina’s a safer bet, and would assure 90% of the black vote, but I’d like to see someone with AOC’s charisma and spirit, however, she lacks experience. Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2020 20:06 utc | 76 Anytime I find myself thinking that Tulsi might not be qualified for the VP slot, I just do a quick mental comparison between her and Sarah Palin. Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 20:07 utc | 77 A Carson.. Sorry, Palin was not sane when she ran, not sane now. Gabbard has her head screwed on straight, and no amount of screeching about her time on the NSC or that she’s going to “grab our guns” changes that. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 20:12 utc | 79 @ Circe: Not experienced? And Obomber was? Try another excuse not to vote for the best POTUS candidate. And I’d take Gabbard’s experience IN A WAR ZONE over some paper-pusher lawyer. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 20:15 utc | 80 @Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 18:36 utc | 46 Posted by: Sasha | Jan 23 2020 20:16 utc | 81 The amount of TINA worshipers and status quo guerillas is starting to depress me. <- Norway Of course, There Is Another Way, for example, kvetching. We can boldly show that we are upset, and pessimistic. One upset pessimists reach critical mass we will think about some actions. But being upset and pessimistic does fully justify inactivity. In particular, given the nature of social interaction networks, with spokes and hubs, dominating the network requires the control of relatively few nodes. The nature of democracy always allows for leverage takeover, starting from dominating within small to the entire nation in few steps. As it was nicely explained by Prof. Overton, there is a window of positions that the vast majority regards as reasonable, non-radical etc. One reason that powers to be invest so much energy vilifying dissenters, Russian assets of late, is to keep them outside the Overton window. Having a candidate elected that the curators of Overton window hate definitely shakes the situation with the potential of shifting the window. There were some positive symptoms after Trump was elected, but negatives prevail. "Why not we just kill him" idea entered the window, together with "we took their oil because we have guts and common sense". From that point of view, visibility of Tulsi and election of Sanders will solve some problems but most of all, it will make big changes in Overton window. Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 23 2020 20:19 utc | 82 c1ue@59 Posted by: krillchem | Jan 23 2020 20:24 utc | 83 Carson @47– Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 23 2020 20:33 utc | 84 Sander’s job in the last election was to sheep-herd the anti-Clinton Dems, to keep them from jumping to the Rep side. He also got screwed by the Clinton camp, but only after he looked like he might win the nomination. Posted by: A P | Jan 23 2020 20:41 utc | 85 c1ue@59 Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2020 20:56 utc | 86 Somethings fishi about Tulsi
!! Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 21:09 utc | 87 Norwegian. Hammy Peters. Posted by: Realist | Jan 23 2020 21:13 utc | 88 The definition of madness: voting for the same Deep-State approved, Party-certified hacks every four years and expecting a different result. Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 21:14 utc | 89 @80A P Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2020 21:15 utc | 90 Carson @ 68 Posted by: Montreal | Jan 23 2020 21:15 utc | 91 >The definition of madness: voting for the same Deep-State Posted by: Trailer Trash | Jan 23 2020 21:27 utc | 92 A P @ 79, Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 21:34 utc | 93 @ Posted by: Carson | Jan 23 2020 18:46 utc | 47 Jackrabbit Posted by: Circe | Jan 23 2020 21:42 utc | 95 The important thing about Sanders is the movement/organisation that is being built around his candidacy. Posted by: bevin | Jan 23 2020 21:47 utc | 96 “If you look at the definition of the term, you’ll find out “democratic socialist” was how the right-wing of the British Labour Party called themselves.” vk Posted by: bevin | Jan 23 2020 21:57 utc | 97 This is a very interesting interview of Steve Bannon by PBS Frontline. Posted by: c1ue | Jan 23 2020 21:59 utc | 98 Circe @95: Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 23 2020 22:00 utc | 99 So Chinas first BSL-4 biohazard lab was built in 2015. Guess where? Wuhan. One of its early projects was working on coronaviruses like SARs. Posted by: Pft | Jan 23 2020 22:01 utc | 100 |
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