Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 01, 2019

The MoA Week In Review - Open Thread 2019-71

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

John Barnett on Why He Won’t Fly on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Corporate Crime Reporter
NTSB recommends Boeing redesign and retrofit engine casing on thousands of 737s - Seattle Times
Problems Pile Up for Boeing as 737 Max Delays Continue - New York Times

>Meanwhile, Congress, following a hearing last month where it grilled Boeing’s chief executive, Dennis A. Muilenburg, is planning to hold a hearing next month at which it expects F.A.A. officials to testify about whether there are other problems with the Max that Boeing hasn’t yet addressed.<

There are at least three issues where the 737 MAX does not conform to current or even older regulation:
- A turbine disk rupture could cut the unprotected rudder cables.
- The manual trim can not be moved at higher speeds to correct stabilizer position problems.
- The cockpit misses an integrated crew alert system (EICAS) and can confuse the pilots with a multitude of dubious alarms.

House Democrat walks back remark favoring censure over impeachment - The Hill
House Intelligence Committee to review impeachment investigation report Monday - The Hill
Democrats have a better choice than impeachment - CNN

U.S. Dems’ dangerous demagoguing on Russia - Helena Cobban - Just World News

PETER HITCHENS: My secret meeting with mole at the heart of The Great Poison Gas Scandal - Mail on Sunday

Other issues:

This should be a huge scandal:

ICE arrests 90 more students at fake university in Michigan - Detroit Free Press

>About 90 additional foreign students of a fake university in metro Detroit created by the Department of Homeland Security have been arrested in recent months.

A total of about 250 students have now been arrested since January on immigration violations by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) as part of a sting operation by federal agents who enticed foreign-born students, mostly from India, to attend the school that marketed itself as offering graduate programs in technology and computer studies, according to ICE officials.<

Hong Kong:

Hong Kong protests: battered Polytechnic University faces six months of repairs as police say more than 10,000 petrol bombs seized from campuses across city - SCMP
>University president Teng Jin-guang reveals that of more than 1,100 people arrested over campus siege, only 46 were PolyU students<


The US trail of the man whose security firm spied on Julian Assange - El Pais
The last paragraph points to a cooperation between the spy company UC Global and the Guardian which published the false claim that Trump campaign manager Manafort visited Assange.

Adam Schiff now finally learns who the "go-between" from Assange to Trump was. /snark
Assange to Testify on Being Recorded in Embassy in London - New York Times

>The prosecutor and Mr. Assange’s allies argue that the C.I.A. was behind the spying. A spokesman for the agency declined to comment. After President Trump took office in 2017, the C.I.A. began espionage aimed at Mr. Assange, WikiLeaks and their ties to Russian intelligence, and the Justice Department began building a criminal case against him.
[The head of UC Global] signed a contract with Las Vegas Sands, the casino and resort company of Sheldon Adelson, and the prosecution contends that Mr. Morales passed information about Mr. Assange to security officials at the company, saying it acted as a go-between with the C.I.A.<


What happens when big powers misuse trade and finances to hurt other powers:
Poland repatriates 100 tons from London - Business Insider
U.S.-based chip-tech group moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears - Reuters

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on December 1, 2019 at 15:16 UTC | Permalink

next page »

"as part of a sting operation by federal agents who enticed foreign-born students"

US national motto: No low is ever too low.

Posted by: JW | Dec 1 2019 15:58 utc | 1

Does anyone have any information about the legal case of Prigozhin's Concord Management? I remember they hired Reed Smith as a lawyer and asked for discovery this summer, but what is going on with the case? Statistically speaking, B has already shown that the IRA commercial troll farm could not have effected the outcome with their $45k purchase of social media space before the elections. Anyone who has looked at the C- grade memes understands that these couldn't possibly change anyone's party allegiances even if they bought $10 million in ad space, but that was the last leg the Russiagate true believers had to stand on. Other than choosing to believe Crowdstrike's evidence free claims that Russians hacked the DNC, its just the memes and Facebook ads left correct?

Posted by: Json | Dec 1 2019 16:43 utc | 2

From Michael Roberts Blog's Facebook:

Chile - it's not just the level of inequality and austerity in the country that triggered the social uprising against the elite. On the OECD's 'better life' index, Chile scores very badly even compared to other Latin American countries.

Chile’s insurgency and the end of neoliberalism

The OECD index allows you to compare well-being across countries, based on 11 topics the OECD has identified as essential, in the areas of material living conditions and quality of life.

OECD Better Life Index


The Indian economy is heading into trouble - to all intent, in recession. The second-largest country in the world by population grew only 4.5 percent year-on-year in the third quarter of 2019, below 5 percent in the previous period and market expectations of 4.7 percent. That's the weakest pace since the first three months of 2013, mainly due to a fall in factory output and exports and a slowdown in investment.

Investment, sluggish for nearly a decade, grew a mere 1 per cent year-on-year, down from 4 per cent in the previous quarter. Manufacturing output contracted 1 per cent. Infrastructure investment has collapsed.

The government has announced several measures to boost growth including a reduction in corporate taxes, concessions on vehicle purchases, bank recapitalisation. Meanwhile, the central bank has already cut borrowing cost 5 times this year and is seen lowering rates again next week.

See my post of last May on India:

India: another China or another Brazil?


This is a very interesting example of how Western (i.e. libera, capitalist) propaganda works, and also a very illustrative example of how capitalism declined from the point of view of a person who benefitted the most from it when it was at its apex:

Perhaps it’s time to remember Yuri Gagarin

The shock in the US was that the Russians were not only competitive, but had embarrassed US science and engineering by being first. In 1958, President Eisenhower signed into law the National Defense Education Act, and this enabled talented students to flow into science and engineering. The shock waves were felt throughout the entire educational system, from top to bottom. Mathematics was more important than football.

He's right in the abovementioned paragraph. If you interviewed people who were 12-14 years old between 1958 and 1963, and asked about what would be the future of the USA in the year 2000, most of them would have more or less the same answer: that the future of America was scientific, bright, of high technology; a nation where scientists and engineers would be more more venerated than tv celebrities and football/baseball players. It would be the world of the infamous "flying cars" and space exploration and colonization.

Nobody in 1963 would imagine that the USA of the 2000s would be the USA of finance, of Wall Street; of football players, of the anti-vaxxers, of the flat earthers and of the Kardashians.

But they should've. The reason this degeneration happened is the fact that the USA is a capitalist society. In capitalism, scientific progress is accidental. What matters in the capitalist system is the valorization process, not the process of use value creation. Like any other societal formations, capitalism has a revolutionary period, an apex period, a decline period and a collapse period. In my opinion, world capitalism has just exited its apex phase and is now entering its decline phase.

Here's the propaganda part of the article:

As demonstrated by the USSR, socialism does not prohibit scientific prowess. There is a difference, of course. Socialism’s success in the USSR came at the expense of millions of lives, the slave labor of millions more, and a lower standard of living. Nevertheless, the fact is that Yuri Gagarin was the first person to orbit the earth. In comparison to the US today, Soviet universities were not plagued by whining children – nor are today’s Chinese universities. The Soviets thought it wiser that their young study calculus and physics.

This paragraph encapsulates all the elements of Cold War propaganda about the USSR. When I read it, it felt like a blast from the past.

First, the image of the USSR as essentially a slavery society is a Western chimera. They come from Weber -- who once theorized the USSR as a "modern Ancient Egypt" -- and the propaganda from Solzhenitsyn, who hugely exagerated the number of prisoners in the USSR.

In fact, even at the height of the GULAG era, the USSR's jailed population never went beyond 1.5% of its overall population (as we know now from Soviet official archives). That's well within the world's average. If only 1.5% of the population is able to sustain the other 98.5%, then even I want to know how the Soviets operated such an economic miracle.

Besides, the USSR obviously didn't kill "millions of people" in order to send someone to space. That's obviously absurd by any metric, logic included. First of all because this would never gather political consensus among the population, second because it is impossible to do rocket science with slave labor.

The quick rise of the Third Reich gave birth to the myth in the West that slave labor can operate miracles. Nothing is further from the truth. In Ancient times, both the Greeks and the Romans already knew slave labor was only economically viable in very basic and simple tasks, such as agriculture, mining and other domestic services. Athens achieved naval supremacy over Greece by using wage labor for its rowing and sailor crews, so that they could be professionals with high morale in the battlefield. The reason for this is that maneuvering triremes was an extremely complex art, too complex and valuable for the Athenians to trust to slaves. They also had, by the nature and complexity of the task, a naturally high degree of freedom from their "bosses". Either way, the task was simply too complex for a slave to phisically learn, since a slave was kept into his/her place through physical deprivation and domination, and a sailor had to be always fit physically and mentally to wage wars at sea. The Spartans didn't slave their coastal colonies, giving them a much larger degree of freedom (perioikoi), probably in exchange for a supply of sailors, ships. The Romans also did the same: when a slave became specialized enough in the family business (such as acting as a middle man in the paterfamilias' businesses in some coastal city), he usually "gifted" him with his freedom.

In sum: even the ancients knew that, for more complex tasks, free people were a must. Slavery was only economically viable for very simple and denigrating tasks (specially, agriculture and mining).

As for the "lower quality of living", that's highly debatable. Surely, on average, the USSR certainly didn't enjoy the same life quality than the top of the capitalist chain of the time. But inequality was much, much lower (almost negligible) except for the rural-urban divide, and there was no deprivation.

On average, life quality in the USSR was much better than the vast majority of the capitalist nations with the benefit inequality was negligible (so the average approached the median). Sure, it was no post-1980s Norway or Finland -- but those are microscopic capitalist nations, with negligible population.

Posted by: vk | Dec 1 2019 16:45 utc | 3

"The Ukrainian Office of the Prosecutor General has drawn up an indictment against the owner of the Burisma Holdings energy company, ex-Ecology Minister Nikolai Zlochevsky, that contains information that the son of former US Vice President Joe Biden, Hunter, as a Burisma board member along with his partners, received $16.5 million for their services, Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada MP from the ruling Servant of the People party Alexander Dubinsky told a press conference on Wednesday, citing the investigation’s materials. According to him, the money came from duplicitous criminal activity."

- Eric Zuesse posted at Saker Blog

Posted by: spudski | Dec 1 2019 19:49 utc | 4

vk @ 3

Thanks vk. The Soviet achievements in space were the achievements of a free people who had to make superhuman sacrifices in order to preserve their freedom. Here's Boris Chertok, a remarkable Soviet space designer whose experiences stretched from the crowds of 1917 and Lenin's funeral to the construction of the international Space Station:

"I am part of the generation that suffered irredeemable losses, to whose lot in 20th century fell the most arduous of tests. From childhood, a sense of duty was inculcated in this generation - a duty to the people, to the Motherland, to our parents, to future generations, and even to all humanity.


Currently ... it is ideological collapse that threatens the objective recounting of [Soviet] science and technology ... motivated by the fact that its origins date back to the Stalin epoch or to the period of the 'Brezhnev Stagnation'"

Posted by: Paora | Dec 1 2019 20:04 utc | 5

Craig Murray says that Boris Johnson was notably drunk at the Cenotaph ceremony for Remembrance Sunday in London.

Why do the UK polls appear to show the Conservatives headed to big victory?

Posted by: jayc | Dec 1 2019 20:12 utc | 6

@ jayc in comment #6 who wrote
Craig Murray says that Boris Johnson was notably drunk at the Cenotaph ceremony for Remembrance Sunday in London.

Why do the UK polls appear to show the Conservatives headed to big victory?
Polls are more tools of propaganda in this human time frame. Add to that in the US we (s)elected a pussy grabbing misogynist and serial bankruptcy grifter and you might start to understand that Boris Johnson may be an alcoholic tool of the elite that run Western nations....and they will propagandize his mythical wonderfulness in spite of his moral a degree that enough of the masses believe in him.

I refuse to take polls anymore because the questions are always worded to get the answers whomever is paying for the poll wants.

We hope for structural change to the Western system/social contract but keep our eyes wide open to the obvious perfidy by the elite of today in the West...hence my steady drum beat about those of the cult that own global private finance

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2019 20:37 utc | 7

Below is a link to a report about Tulsi Gabbard being wedged out by the DNC

Gabbard Accuses ‘Arbitrary’ DNC of Rejecting Poll From Accepted Pollster

The take away quote
The committee, known as the DNC, has recognized Suffolk University as one of the accepted pollsters for debate qualifying purposes when it carried out a poll for USA Today but the committee declined to accept a Suffolk poll conducted for the Boston Globe, Gabbard’s campaign said.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 1 2019 21:10 utc | 8

The corruption in ukraine is off the charts.
The article discusses land privatization but reveals a truly diabolical
purpose for the $7.4 billion that was stolen from ukraine.

Posted by: evilempire | Dec 1 2019 21:33 utc | 9

After six years of trials, Russia's 29B6 Konteyner over-the-horizon-radar has finally become fully operational. According to its chief designer Mikhail Petrov, the radar is detecting and tracking F-35 jets up to 3000 km away. The radar, located in Mordovia (receiver) and Nizhny Novgorod Oblast (transmitter), is oriented westwards; Russia plans to build three more 29B6 Konteyners for the east, north-west, and south directions.

Posted by: S | Dec 1 2019 21:47 utc | 10

#7 psychohistorian I'm with Peter on this one. Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it. Crack that, and it all makes sense. Peter Hitchens
I treat polls the same way my dog does. Two recent polls, BREXIT and US POTUS election 2016 were wrong and we are still living with the outcomes years later because people can't accept the results. Those who lost are still trying to change the results.

Posted by: Tom | Dec 1 2019 21:47 utc | 11

thanks b! always fascinating as usual - the info and thought process you stimulate...

@ others.. thanks for the comments and alternative views - vk in particular today!

@ 6 jayc... i thought that was interesting when listening to craig murrays take on boris cenotaph ceremony dynamic.. the msm won't touch that as i think it is considered off bounds to go into a persons drinking habits.. far easier to go into whether they are anti-semite or not... but, regardless - i really agree with psychohistorians take.. polls are tools to massage peoples brains... it is like eating at mcdonalds.. you get what you pay for, or in this case - since you paid nothing, you get next to nothing.. who pays for the polls? how many did they do before they released the data that they did? what was the process that went into the polling? and etc. etc.. people need to ask a lot more questions on the info that they get from the msm - for their own sanity and education..

Posted by: james | Dec 1 2019 21:52 utc | 12

stimulating / entertaining article from john helmer if you are interested..


Posted by: james | Dec 1 2019 21:59 utc | 13

S @10--

Thanks for providing that system update! I did see your proposals for amending the US Constitution and the many others made on that thread. Sorry, but haven't had the time to properly digest and answer. The Fall's been very busy, and the coming Winter looks to be that way too. I find Pepe Escobar's comments on his Facebook page and in communication to me about the extremely negative bordering on nasty attitude of American negotiators and conference representatives very worrisome, which will be a component of my next comment.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 1 2019 22:06 utc | 14

These are some of the brutally violent "moderate rebels" in Hong Kong that the US government, the corporate media, and the neoliberal "human rights" industry are wholeheartedly supporting

As previously happened with the Syrian "moderate rebels" who then were disguised as White Helmets but continued oding the same, according to the last bill approved by the two cameras of representatives with the beneplacit of the two US parties, these thugs will be granted US visas so as to avoid law enforcement and trial...

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 1 2019 22:06 utc | 15

@3 vk - great post, and some good links to save. Thanks!

Posted by: Merlin2 | Dec 1 2019 22:06 utc | 16

@Posted by: Sasha | December 01, 2019 at 22:06

If you notice, the thug who try to assasinate the citizen by beating him unconscious, by his size and phisical characteristics, is hardly a Chinese, but a foreigner....I bet he is one of those who got unemployed in Syria....

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 1 2019 22:10 utc | 17

About poll...seems to me since many years that the unstated assumptions behind an Nth poll, these held by several actors in several modes, tends to produce more or less worthless results, except that by touting the poll itself one may craft a manipulating rhetoric, a "TBSS" - this, in turn, is generally valuable to deceive the chumps, marks. Stacey @ Keiser Report opined that she saw Trumper winning when the polls said, ah, otherwise... Stacy saw the rural yard signs...

Interesting that exit polls, which used to work in alignment with actual tally, no longer do. How about "poll" implies incorrectly that "they" are honest enough to count the votes...TBS.


reading L’agonie de la politique étrangère française.

I had no idea that "the son of one of the five founders of the CIA, Ambassador Frank G. Wisner raised his son-in-law Nicolas Sarkozy, a teenager in New York. He introduced him to the CIA which favored his election to the French presidency."

Voltaire > [from French] "Thierry Meyssan's book, Sous notre yeux . We start the second part on French politics with, in this episode, the appearance of Jacques Chirac and Nicolas Sarkozy. Gradually the small gifts will transform the foreign policy of Paris of the service of France to personal arrangements between friends."

Posted by: Walter | Dec 1 2019 22:14 utc | 18

Psychos armed to the teeth running amok in land of the brave, land of the free...what is to be surprised about what happnes in HK?

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 1 2019 22:23 utc | 19

Eric Zuesse's "Why a Second American Revolution Is Necessary for the Entire World" cites b's "Lessons To Learn From The Coup In Bolivia," which he describes as "very disturbing but clearly true." He then follows with what I thought was a jaw dropper:

" That anonymous author (a German intelligence analyst) documented the evilness of the overthrow of Evo Morales in Bolivia, and the threat now clearly posed to the world by the US regime — a spreading cancer of expansionist fascism, led from Washington. But, even more than this, he indicated that unless the individuals who are responsible for the advancing fascism are executed, there won’t be any real hope for democracy anywhere in the world. Either this impunity will stop, or else the spread of the US international dictatorship — not only by CIA coups such as this, but by illegal international invasions such as of Iraq 2003, Libya 2011, Syria 2012-, and Yemen 2015-, — will continue and will engulf in misery ultimately the entire world. He makes clear the complicity of US ‘news’-media in the lies that ‘justify’ this coup (and ‘justified’ those invasions)." [My Emphasis]

IMO, that's a very broad interpretation of b's summation, but I cannot argue against the section I bolded--as some may have noticed, my appellation for the USA has evolved to better reflect its nature: the Evil Outlaw US Empire. There are numerous reasons that prompted me to do so, one I mentioned in my reply @14 to S--tact is no longer employed in diplomacy by the Evil Outlaw US Empire, and that's a very bad sign, IMO. Zuesse continues on calling out the crimes of BigLie Media, echoing my accusation that the writers and editors are all committing the crimes of Goebbels and ought to mimic his actions when his end was nigh.

Zueese ends his very authentic rant with the following prescription which was clearly needed prior to 911:

"Unfortunately, the only global solution would be a second American Revolution, but, this time, the news-media are far less honest, and so almost no support exists amongst the US population for doing that. Consequently, the outlook for the future, worldwide, is grim. If the warning (hidden by the media as it is), this time from Bolivia, is not heeded, how can this cancer ever be stopped from engulfing the entire world?"

It's curious that an impending Civil War within the Evil Outlaw US Empire is posited but seldom a 2nd Revolution, although the latter's been discussed at the bar by myself and others off and on over the past several years. I wrote the following in a reply to psychohistorian on the previous open thread:

"I appears that the prerequisite to obtaining freedom and democracy is public ownership of the vast majority of financial levers. Without public capture of that essential domain, only some form of penury is possible for the vast majority of commonfolk, leaving only a select hierarchy free, democracy reserved only for their use. Pretty well sums up the current situation within the Evil Outlaw US Empire I'd say."

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 1 2019 22:45 utc | 20

Sasha...They hunt. They are hunters, not "police". My perception since more than 70 years is that US ordinary people, all of whom have either guns or access to guns, almost never wave them around and will offer deadly violence (actually pointing the thing at somebody's guts) only under great provocation.

It has also been my observation, directly, that these hunters almost always offer deadly violence. At my own guts...dozens of times. And I am not a criminal...rather more a boy-scout. It does depend on how "they" perceive the class of the target of their "affection"...if you're seen as upper class they still wave the guns, though it's less likely that they'll shoot... US Negros and mixed race persons are treated like rabbits in a plowed field. As you showed us. Thanks.

Maybe that's what they mean by "police-state"

Telling twitter video. least they didn't murder the kid. Ya think they made an enemy?

Kid'll never forget. And when somebody shoot a "hunter" the kid will not cry.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 1 2019 22:46 utc | 21

The Civil Arm of the coup: one of the best-funded NGOs in Bolivia during 2017 and 2018 was the International Republican Institute (IRI).

The destabilization of Ukraine and Tunisia are the main achievements of this American organization.

NGO networks: the "civil" arm of the US Empire that defined the coup in Bolivia

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 1 2019 22:56 utc | 22

@Posted by: Walter | Dec 1 2019 22:46 utc | 21

Well, sorry, but reading through the comments under that Twitter, someone commented that this scen belongs to a film...I was already finding out way too outdated the policewoman spectacles and general style...But seems quite real indeed...

In fact, from videos I have seen lately on teenagers being reduced and detained by US police, for making noise at a party or something similar, this one gets even in the category of civilized, in spite of the patent cruelty...Past day I saw one where a girl was reduced for just selling food in the street in a poor neighborhood, and in the process the policeman, a great man, mounted over the girl´s knee hurting her badly...No cry coming from the girl or expression of pain stopped the obvious psycho from continue pressing on her knee with his own...

Yeah, it must be scary living there...except for those making six figures income...

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 1 2019 23:11 utc | 23

Thanks b for all the work you do. Especially your revisit of the Skripals. When does the poor poet take a rest?

@ evil empire 9

sadly no mention of the stolen gold.

@ Tom 11
"Opinion polls are a device for influencing public opinion, not a device for measuring it. Two recent polls, BREXIT and US POTUS election 2016 were wrong."

Except for YouGov. It's the method.

"YouGov turns to online panels comprising a million people in the UK – and millions more internationally – whose members are constantly consulted for their opinions on everything from the news of the day to which brand of bread they buy.

{.}People who participate in YouGov panels are “paid” in points, usually receiving around 50 points for a daily poll. Once they reach 5,000 points, they can cash it out for £50."{.}

Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 1 2019 23:19 utc | 24

VK @ 3

Thanks for challenging my old cold war paranoia. What would have the Soviet Union become if Stalin never reached power? They may have easily achieved a much higher standard of living and better relations with the West.

Nobody in 1963 would imagine that the USA of the 2000s would be the USA of finance, of Wall Street; of football players, of the anti-vaxxers, of the flat earthers and of the Kardashians.

But they should've. The reason this degeneration happened is the fact that the USA is a capitalist society. In capitalism, scientific progress is accidental. What matters in the capitalist system is the valorization process, not the process of use value creation. Like any other societal formations, capitalism has a revolutionary period, an apex period, a decline period and a collapse period. In my opinion, world capitalism has just exited its apex phase and is now entering its decline phase.

It is not just capitalism, it is the whole Euro centrist model that ran the world for the last 500 years that is collapsing. As you aptly point out, the current cultural model is a failure. At its apex of the Soviet Empire was glued together with the sheer terror of Stalin. Marxism has clearly been relegated to the dustbin of history prior to capitalism and capitalism lasted much longer.

As far as Soviet workers achieving higher standards of living under their form of government, I would have to see some documentation. Ownership private property creates wealth for an individual so inclined and educated. Free subsidized housing for all organized by the government would create less of a need to be productive. A hope one would have in retirement, a paid off house and free to be less productive.

Collectivization of farming and sharing of the benefits would not motivate all to place equal effort into the endeavor. For their part Soviet farmers were not caught in the capitalist production cycle of expensive equipment and inputs to their farms yet I am sure the same vagaries of the weather affected all.

Savings of excess capital by a worker placed into securities creates wealth over time. I see that every day. Salaries paid by government and capped at a certain level does not. There are always people who achieve under any system and inequality exists in every system. I watched the losses as well but stayed clear of the foolishness of 2008 as I could easily see through the mass psychosis of the masses and the propaganda of the capitalists on that one. Actually I made some pretty good money. It appeared to be based on a noble goal, everyone should own a house weather they can afford it or not and capital was made available. In the Soviet Union I imagine you were given a flat for free.

My view of the life in the Soviet Union may be tinged by the empire but life under a government where all is owned and controlled by the government is living death. That is where Marx and the German scholars of his era fails. All the deep theories of Marxism cannot get away from the fact that the government owns you.

The Third Reich did not rise on the basis of slave labor, slave labor came after they achieved their success and started to lose. It was a pure capitalist endeavor supported by the large business cartels of the era. That capitalist form of socialism (fascism) was mixed with a dose of eugenics.

It is interesting to note that the empire now paints the picture that life under Putin is terrible and the masses yearn for the old days of pure Marxism. Truth or fiction? It is hard to tell from so far away.

More work is needed on understanding these eras and issues on my part, fair enough. It is difficult to sort out the truth between the two sides. As both paint a vastly different picture.

I guess I will have to wait in my capitalist comfort until the modern era Marxist head choppers come for me as they try to make a comeback. Living under Stalin rent free is not for me.

Posted by: dltravers | Dec 2 2019 0:01 utc | 25

Walter 18:

Ambassador Frank G. Wisner raised his son-in-law Nicolas Sarkozy, a teenager in New York.

Just another ordinary coincidence. Meaningless, really./sarc

Like Jews and power (They don't have any so shut up.); Hillary and Benghazi (What difference does it make? None whatsoever.); and Trump and Epstein (He cut off relations! It just took him 10 years to tell us about it).

Nothing to see here.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2019 0:04 utc | 26


Trump 2016: "I love Wikileaks."

Trump 2019: "I don't know Wikileaks."


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2019 0:19 utc | 27

Sasha | Dec 1 2019 23:11 utc | 23 (must be scary)

Just a little. In my working days it was outright dangerous because I was on the road and seen as low-class, which is to say most anybody with calluses on his hands or who carries tools or has an old truck. Cops pulled guns on me all the time. I wouldn't of minded so much if they followed safe procedure and used revolvers rather than automatics. Safe procedure for holster-carry of a revolver means that the cylinder is rotated to align an empty chamber with the barrel. Then when the gun is pointed there can be no accident, and it's safer if the thing is dropped. Long ago that all went away, and they all have "one up the spout". That is scary. They made a clear point of establishing themselves as fascist thugs right before my eyes as a small child. That's been reinforced too many times. A few are good guys's institutional and cultural and "training" cops get..gee where in Palestine do they train us cops...I forget.

In public school in the 1950's and 60's basic gun safety and a school rifle team were pretty common things. I have the idea that Soviets gave basic safety instruction too.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 1:44 utc | 28

Bush Doctrine still in play as the Evil Outlaw US Empire's Ambassador to Germany Richard Grenell gets irked that more nations are joining the INSTEX mechanism for commerce with Iran as shown by his Tweet:

"cc: @TreasurySpox @USTreasury sounds to me like all these people and groups should be added to the US Sanctions list. We should ensure that they don’t get to work in the US market. Iran or the US - they decide. But not both." [My Emphasis]

The nations saying we're not with you are Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden--what might be termed the more enlightened Europeans.

And here we have Germany's CDU acting in a manner reflecting the Bush Doctrine as it debated Germany's 5G rollout:

"The moderates, represented by Merkel, believe that Germany should not rule out any company over political issues, but focus more on objective factors such as whether its technological security and standards meet German requirements. However, some hard-liners make it an ideological issue and believe Huawei should be excluded. The reason they provided is 'no Chinese company is an independent company,' adding that Huawei's involvement is principally "an imminent question of national security….

"After decades of following the US, Germany has somewhat lost the ability to independently decide its development and destiny. But in recent years, the US has been pursuing unilateralism. The export-oriented German economy is affected by not only China-US trade conflicts, but also US threat of imposing tariffs on German products. Thus, it is time for Berlin to stop its fear of threats from Washington and make choices that are in line with its own interests." [My Emphasis]

Every Evil Outlaw US Empire chartered corporation in the tech realm is not an "independent company" since they work hand in glove with CIA, NSA, FBI, other government organizations, and are also funded by the government. The same is likely true of every Western tech company. A double standard excuse in service of continuing the Bush Doctrine.

To paraphrase Grenell, Now is most certainly the time to declare your independence and reclaim your sovereignty and cease acting in the service of another nation.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2019 2:10 utc | 29

A few days prior to Pepe Escobar arriving in Bishkek, Putin was there for the CSTO Summit, the S standing for Security. In line with the further integration of regional organizations, Putin said the following as part of his short speech:

"Russia will help expand the circle of friends of our organisation through developing cooperation with all the states and international associations that may be interested in doing so. Notably, last year we approved a package of documents opening up the opportunity for granting the status of CSTO observer or partner."

Pepe's article somewhat illustrates the tabula rasa nature of Central Asia and discusses its challenges--lots of work to do there!

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2019 2:25 utc | 30

There is an article at fortruss about the imf and ukraine's gold.
What i find really sick, and it attests to the sick sense of humor
of the mf'ers, is that the wise guys are charging ukraine interest
on the money they stole from them.

Posted by: evilempire | Dec 2 2019 2:30 utc | 31

Great fun over at Bellingcat They're getting a richly deserved pasting!

Posted by: Reen | Dec 2 2019 2:36 utc | 32

In the last Open Thread I provide a number of quotes from Ellen Brown's Web of Debt which I am enjoying and being educated by reading.....karlof1 provided a link to get the PDF form of the book online.

Anyway, in the beginning of chapter 41 is another part I want to share as follows:

William Jennings Bryan, the Cowardly Lion of The Wizard of Oz, proved his courage by challenging the banking cartel's right to create the national money supply. He said in the speech that won him the Democratic nomination in 1896:
[W]e believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government.......Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and the the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson......and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of government and that the banks should get out of the governing business.....[W]hen we have restored the money of the Constitution, all other necessary reforms will be possible, and .....until that is done there is no reform that can be accomplished.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2019 4:00 utc | 33

Dilyana Gaytandzhieva is starting legal action against Bellingcrap for manipulating evidence by hiding crucial documents in order to smear her journalism and damage her reputation.

Dilyana Gaytandzhieva, "Exposed: Bellingcat fabricate evidence, deliberately hide documents in new ‘Russian spy plot’"

Posted by: Jen | Dec 2 2019 4:36 utc | 34

Here's Bryan's "Cross of Gold Speech" psychohistorian references @32. As I wrote when I initially provided that link, the national debate over who and what would control the nation's finances dates back to 1776 and continued to be one of the--if not the top--political issue until the 1913 Fed Act and subsequent removal of that debate from the nation's main newspapers. Its removal from the public discourse wasn't accidental nor due to a secret conspiracy of Jewish bankers. Who coopted and promoted John Bates Clark seems to be the pertinent question.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2019 5:22 utc | 35

Two loose ends:

1. Malta sticks out, is the "promised" resignation an intentional sacrificial play?

2. To what extent did the US fail in Moldova or are they only keeping very quiet for now? It is unclear to me.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 2 2019 7:38 utc | 36

In the previous thread I suggested that the leadership of the OPCW should be taken to The Hague to be convicted as accessories to mass murder. It was a joke, but not because the OPCW is already in The Hague. In reality the ICC is as corrupt as the OPCW. They are nothing but cheap whores who allow themselves to be used as a tool of imperial aggression.


  • The ICC accepted to prosecute the Libyan leadership based on a referral from the UN Security Council but with no substance to the fake allegations. The fake case was then used to murder Muammar Gaddafi and hunt down Saif al Islam Gaddafi. When Saif was finally imprisoned and ready to defend himself in The Hague, the ICC wanted to have nothing to do with him.

  • In March 2014 the Ukrainian parliament referred prosecution of the Maidan sniper massacre to the ICC. The ICC accepted. The murderers are by now well known. Yet the ICC has taken no steps to prosecute them or have them arrested.

The coup government in Bolivia now wants the ICC to prosecute Evo Morales for "crimes against humanity". If the ICC acts in their usual manner, they will soon be issuing arrest warrants.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 2 2019 7:44 utc | 37

Is Joe Rogan ever anything but dumb blather? Guess I'm not a fan >:)

No mention (in what little I could stand to listen to) that Epstein might not be dead. Saying it because few do.

Is it interesting that the only result of Epstein's "death" so far might at a stretch be prince Andrew getting into "trouble" (again, like many times before)? However one could easily argue that it was entirely self-inflicted and then there's nothing at all except all the noise.

Meh! :)

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 2 2019 8:34 utc | 38

that's why he was whacked, so the story goes away.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2019 9:17 utc | 39

sigh. that peter hitchens piece on the opca was excellent. then i read the piece below it, linking the knife attack on the bridge to marijuana. i don't know what was going on there, seems highly suspicious, but marijuana use is well down the list of concerns.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2019 10:00 utc | 40

Sunny Runny Burger says:

Is it interesting that the only result of Epstein's "death" so far might at a stretch be prince Andrew getting into "trouble"

yeah, i see the queen canceled his birthday party.

pretzelattack says:

i don't know what was going on there, seems highly suspicious, but marijuana use is well down the list of concerns

ya know, i forget who said it, but in answer to the question of whether or not marijuana is an aphrodisiac, he said, "it depends on who you're with when you're stoned"

Posted by: john | Dec 2 2019 11:19 utc | 41

the only people i've heard claim marijuana induces homicidal attacks, no matter who you might be with, are the ones behind reefer madness style propaganda, these days that would mostly be people that profit off drug treatment centers and private prisons.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 2 2019 11:47 utc | 42

Yesterday, nine people were brutally killed by the Brazilian police in Paraisópolis, São Paulo during a surprise raid on a "street party". They were allegedly deliberately cornered so they couldn't scape and killed execution style:

União dos Moradores de Paraisópolis: “Jovens foram encurralados em becos e vielas e levados a caminho da morte”; vídeo

The reason they did that was it did a lot of noise at night. The adjacent neighborhood (Morumbi) is one of very wealthy, very influential individuals. The Paraisópolis/Morumbi divide gave birth to that infamous photograph that perfectly illustrates inequality everybody can see on the internet. One of the residents from Morumbi told the press "I would sent a drone with granades every weekend [to Paraisópolis]".

Entertainment in Brazil is all privatized and expensive. The poor people from Paraisópolis do those "street parties" because that's their only option, not because they want to. The police brutally killed nine people because they spoiled their rich neighboors' landscape.

Brazil is a capitalist country. It is what during the Cold War was defined as a "free country", a "Western/liberal Democracy". Allegedly, it would be governed through the principle of the infamous "rule of law". It should have what is called "freedom of speech" and "freedom of association". It should be what is widely called "free".

But here we are: nine people killed for the simple reason they wanted to have some fun. Is this freedom? Is this not that "totalitarianism" the liberals love to talk about?

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2019 11:48 utc | 43

Below is another story from the Ellen Brown Web of Debt book (chapter 40 - Helicopter money) that I want to share with fellow MoA barflies. It will contain some quotes from the book and others within the book but covers 3+ pages in the book so I want to summarize as best I can.

Basic assumptions
Japan is a colony of empire
Japan has a "public" central bank (Bank of Japan), and as such creates money (yen) by keystrokes on a computer paying no interest on that creation, unlike the private US Fed/private banking system.
Japan is currently the largest holder of US Treasuries....over a trillion dollars worth but followed closely by China

In 2003 and early 2004, the Bank of Japan created over 35 trillion yen which were then traded with the government's Ministry of Finance (MOF) which then proceeded to buy approximately $320 billion in US dollars from private parties. These dollars were then used to buy US government bonds (Treasuries) which represented 77% of the US budget deficit in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2004
The effect of the experiment, said Duncan, was to finance a broad-based tax cut in the US with newly-created money. The tax cuts were made in America , but the money was made in Japan. Three large tax cuts took the US budget from a surplus of $127 billion in 2001 to a deficit of $413 billion in 2004. The difference was a deficit of $540 billion, and it was largely "monetized" by the Japanese.
More from Duncan
.....In 2004 the global economy grew at the fastest rate in 30 years. Money creation by the Bank of Japan on an unprecedented scale was perhaps the most important factor responsible for the growth. In fact, 35 trillion yen could have made the difference between global reflation and global deflation. How odd that it went unnoticed?
The experiment had "worked beautifully" to reduce deflation and provide the money for more US government
deficits, except for one thing: the US government was now in debt to a foreign power for money the Japanese government had created with accounting entries -- money the US government could have created itself.

These are the manipulations going on in the global private finance controlled world that go unreported but have serious consequences for the public.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2019 12:11 utc | 44

Just wondering about Le Mesurier's death and a possible motive. Maybe it was suicide, driven by fear of imminent exposure or failure of his enterprise. Have also wondered about the SAA front in Idlib and why the liberation seems to be delayed so long.
Pure speculation, but maybe the background understanding between Russia and Turkey is key. Assad knows that a full-on offensive to liberate the whole of Idlib would be very costly and possibly counter-productive with the risk of a fake chemical attack bringing on air-strikes, so he needs to be careful. Turkey is key to controlling the militias but he has demanded a price, being the corridor in northern Syria to protect him from the Kurds. If this is not an unspoken understanding, then why is SAA not being more aggressive in punishing Turkey ?
As events progress, SAA checks Erdogan's commitment to allow SAA advance into Idlib (probably as far as controlling the main Lattakia-Aleppo road and no further) by starting small advances to see how MSM reacts. Erdogan will have promised no fake chemical attack accusations. This was evidenced in the recent liberation of Khan Skeikhoun where there were no chemical weapons accusations flying around. In order to be able to make those promises, Erdogan will have had to take control of the White Helmets propaganda machine and if this is the case, then it does suggest a reason why Le Mesurier may have committed suicide. His team have been lured away to another orbit and are no longer answerable to him. The link to British intelligence and control is being weakened and so the likelihood of Le Mesurier's exposure increased to the point where he wanted to exit the situation. Incidentally, the sacking of the Daily Mail journalist for repeatedly smearing Peter Hichens over the OPCW affair smells of the same drift. Daily Mail owners are seeing that Whit Helmet sympathisers are soon to be a liability and so have made a bit of a stand.
If I am right, then expect more downplaying of the rights of the "opposition" in Idlib. Erdogan will get his territory in north Syria and populate it with repackaged AlQeada sympathisers, and Assad will get enough of Idlib to be able to develop the area economically. Down the road there will be negotiations about 'final status' conditions in these areas, but the main thing will be that US and Israeli influence will be kept out and Syria will continue to stand proud and start to prosper.

Posted by: aniteleya | Dec 2 2019 12:42 utc | 45

Trump to Tariff Steel and Aluminum From Argentina and Brazil

George W. Bush's intention to tariff Brazil's aluminum by more than 30% in 2000 killed ALCA. Let's see if, this time, Trump is successful.

If he is, then it will be hilarious, because Brazil's president, Jair Messias Bolsonaro, is the most avid bootlicker Brazilian chief of State of the USA since dictator Humberto de Alencar Castello Branco.

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2019 13:08 utc | 46

I stumbled upon a site that is new to me. The author there says some things that are probably true, and others, and in a form, that I do not grasp. With a large dose of salt and so forth... He's evidently rather ardently antizionist, but then so are many undeceived Jews. Even if some of his statements are incorrect, he's innarrestin' as Burroughs would say.

The guy's name> "Benjamin Fulford"

site: "benjamin fulford's translations" (duckduckgo)

I'd like to know what y'all think Here's a fragment...

"... The real battle, of course, is over control of the Anglo-Saxon navies, agree Pentagon and MI6 sources.
Here, “the Trump purge began with the firing of Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer for insubordination, and may be followed by Obama flag officer holdovers, as ‘the Donald’ has won the loyalty of warfighters and special ops forces needed to take down the Zionists and the deep state,” Pentagon sources say.
MI6 sources, for their part, say, “There seems to be a lot of infighting now and attempts to strip the Queen of things like the CIA, U.S. DOD, etc., so this latest fiasco may be an expression of all this.”
In a sign of just how serious a battle this is, the Pentagon sources say that “Since Vice-Admiral Andrew won’t be extradited and may hide behind diplomatic immunity, he may be renditioned by the U.S. military, since the Queen is also Commander in Chief of UK forces.” Needless to say, such an operation would be tantamount to a declaration of war...."

and... " “Trump’s soon-to-be-next move is that the Green Hilton Memorial Agreement signed by [then President] John F. Kennedy and President Sukarno at Geneva in November 1963 becomes a reality. Trump can, with the stroke of his pen by Executive Order, reinstate Executive Order 11110 or an amendment thereof, thus allowing the Department of the Treasury to issue the new United States dollars. This may be the reboot of the U.S. dollar, as Trump leaves the debt of the Federal Reserve to be resolved by the actual owners—the Khazarian Zionist cabal,” the CIA says..."

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 13:15 utc | 47

psychohistorian @ 44
.""....In 2004 the global economy grew at the fastest rate in 30 years. Money creation by the Bank of Japan on an unprecedented scale was perhaps the most important factor responsible for the growth. In fact, 35 trillion yen could have made the difference between global reflation and global deflation. How odd that it went unnoticed?

The experiment had "worked beautifully" to reduce deflation and provide the money for more US government
deficits, except for one thing: the US government was now in debt to a foreign power for money the Japanese government had created with accounting entries -- money the US government could have created itself.""

Being in debt to a foreign power isn't really that big a deal as long as the debt is denominated in your own sovereign currency.  You can just keep printing it to make interest payments.

The problem is when countries take out debt denominated in other currencies.  Then they have to come up with that money in other ways than their printing presses.

As Ellen mentions, the US Govt can and does create it itself.  

The problem would be if say Iran decided to sell it's oil for yen.  

Then the US would have to show that the USD is strong enough to buy yen.  The way the US is going that could prove to be a problem.

Also this would limit the US ability to use sanctions.  Hence the wise choice of other countries to use other currencies.  Also they are basing these currencies on respect for others and real resources rather than predation and financial products.

Posted by: financial matters | Dec 2 2019 13:22 utc | 48

Walter @ 47.  Interesting

I think it's interesting to examine this in light of MMT type thinking.

The Fed is a creature of Congress and the Fed and Treasury work very closely on a day to day basis to keep everything financed.  The Fed will basically create money for whatever Congress wants to do and give it to the Treasury.  Politicians don't want us to believe that it's this easy.  Especially when it comes to social security, medicare for all, etc rather than being used to line their own pockets.

Trump understands this and could at some time 'with the stroke of his pen' use this power for the general good which could be very popular.  Although not for the status quo.

Posted by: financial matters | Dec 2 2019 13:47 utc | 49

Adding to SunnyRunny#38:
When confronted with an event like the pedo-silver-fox mystery, it's useful to look at as many clues as possible.
Granted I haven't really immersed myself in it, but a few things stick out. One is the very possible collusion with clandestine entities from the USA as well as other countries. If there is any truth to shared flights with certain agencies then this would point to evidence of a larger network which almost certainly exists.
The notion that sexual encounters with boys and girls have been used as tools for blackmail is not a new one and ample evidence of this came out around the time of death of one Jimmy Saville.

Add to this the appearance of a "roll-up". Jeff's French counterpart "disappears" and where is the Maxwell woman? Further questions about her father's role in all of this have also been brought up. Clearly he did not act alone, and many of his connections are being ignored or simply vanish. Apparently British Royals are implicated as well... Then there are pictures of him chumming around with all sorts of folks, USAn presidents to name a few. If only those flight logs to the island were available.

Next we have to extremely fuzzy reporting around the incarceration incident. Sleeping guards, lack of footage, conflicting stories, and mostly just vagueness on just about every count. Was it suicide? If so how? What no witnessing at all?! Oh but it could be murder! That sort of thing to get a debate type atmosphere rolling along which almost always keeps the more informed masses busy. Frankly it seems like a bit of limited hangout to me. Perhaps things were getting a bit too close for comfort and an event needed to be set in motion? I've noticed this happen when public awareness reaches some sort of critical mass, there is often a scapegoat event to release pressure. Maybe the Epstein punching bag served that purpose?

Some clever chap has apparently been getting footage from around the island post event, and there has been quite lot of activity. Standard investigative procedures were not followed and for (I think) two weeks after the owners disappearance quite alot of work was being done, and very little SOP for criminal work. Let's assume for a moment the Jeff was part of a network and that there are others like him that fulfill a "procuring function". What sort of message would it send them if they were sure that Jeff was sold down the river and suicided for all his hard work? That might hinder recruitment, and foster an air of distrust leading to operators installing "safety measures" to protect themselves. Then there is the movement of funds into an anonymous trust right before Jeffs death event. Finally, way out on a limb there is the UAV (drone) footage of the construction work on the island where a silver haired man is seen overseeing things.

Posted by: Chevrus | Dec 2 2019 14:18 utc | 50

Israeli Mossad danced with glee in Liberty Park
holding up cigarette lighters as they mocked the
World Trade Center towers burning in the background.

Posted by: librul | Dec 2 2019 14:25 utc | 51

@ 38

If Jeff were dead they'd have shown us the proof. Since they did not, but produced only blurred claims by sources known to be liars...

Johnny said it best> see YT and open "Animal House: "BLOWJOB" " (seven seconds of truth...)

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 14:36 utc | 52

@Walter. Careful with Fulford, son of a Canadian ambassador, with purported insider info who needs his Paypal account replenished weekly. A type of debka disinfo agent cum limited hangout/political fiction writer..

Posted by: Lozion | Dec 2 2019 15:20 utc | 53

In a recent thread somebody posted a link to the brilliant documentary about tax havens and geopolitics, The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire, which I watched yesterday and I'd add my endorsement of it. It is of really of fundamental importance.

If you want to try to understand what is going on behind Brexit, this film is a must - since the whole motivation for Brexit (for the elite) was to evade efforts of the EU to bring tax havens under control, thereby sterilising Britain's second empire.

Furthermore the film sheds light on the insidious centrality of the City of London to the whole of the global finance industry. Once upon a time I used to see the UK as a poodle to the USA; in recent years I have increasingly seen indications of UK control over the US (for example, the whole of Russiagate). It is true that the UK state as a whole is poodle to Washington, but the politicians and burocrats in Washington, in turn, are but puppets who's strings are pulled by the top UK elites (who are not, of course, to be confused with the UK state).

The scale of the illicit wealth controlled by the City of London is significantly greater than that controlled by the US, and of truely epic proportions. The tax havens are in essence a machine for plundering the wealth and resources of the whole world via massive corruption and through actively cultivating crime, and according to the film the UK controls (including former colonies as well as tax havens) up to 40% of that (as against 19% under US control).

The City of London is truly the most evil entity in this world, much more so even than the USA.

Posted by: BM | Dec 2 2019 15:23 utc | 54

Here is a really informative and fascinating/scary piece on Ukraine in the Saker

My apologies if someone already linked it-- a "must read" in my opinion.

The writer details the internal fights that have been happening and continue as the Trump/Biden fights move forward.

I think there are two concepts which greatly help me/us understand the actions of the power elites: how parasites flourish (and eventually die) and the concept of addiction which is explained with lots of detail, humility and stories by Gabor Mate, father of Aaron Mate, who is a holocaust survivor and psychiatrist in Vancouver, B.C. This link is an interview in which Gabor Mate explains "Russiagate".

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 2 2019 15:27 utc | 55

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 13:15 utc | 47

What you describe sounds like disinformation planted by the CIA - designed to confuse, to lead astray, and to discredit legitimate opposition arguments. It doesn't seem to me to pass the credibility test, based on what you posted.

Posted by: BM | Dec 2 2019 15:31 utc | 56

OAS published report about Bolivian elections before investigation results came out and without any evidence of fraud either way:

OEA">">OEA divulgou relatório sobre eleição na Bolívia antes do prazo mesmo sem indícios de fraude, diz site

According to Argentinian newspaper Cohete a la Luna, OAS supressed its own preliminary report, which indicated there was no fraud. It gathered a random sample of paper minutes from random ballots and compared them with the polls predictions. The results indicated no fraud, i.e. neglibigle differences between the results on the ballots and the polls. This preliminary report was supressed, and the OAS, before the official result came out, published a final report declaring there was fraud.

So here we have a modus operandi - the same of the OPCW.

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2019 15:40 utc | 57

aniteleya @45: ... wondering about Le Mesurier's death and a possible motive.

I see him as one of the "three stooges" that have been retired (not killed): Epstein, al Baghdadi, and Le Mesurier. (Until/unless more info comes to light.)

<> <> <> <> <>

Cherche la femme! Le Mesurier was recently married. Khashoggi was engaged.


Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 2 2019 15:40 utc | 58

@ # 10 (Mr S, and the radar)

I looked at the Russian site. I gather it's essentially a fancy software development project supporting rather ordinary electrical and electronic engineering. OTH radar really goes back to the beginnings of the art, it's the nifty ability to decrypt or decode the returns that's changing...and I assume also the use of solid state T/R elements, in part to reduce power consumption for several practical reasons - logistics, reliability, IR emissions, etc.

searchterm> "german radar see f35 air show"

Time is necessary, a period to teach the software, I believe. This implies that US development can't be done quickly.

If I were a criminal planning a war on Russia I'd place my bets with jamming the Russian system. I remember when the zionists stole an Egyptian Russian as to RF it. The Red Army better hang onto those radars like glue...

Belinko, the Soviet traitor who stole a MiG 25, said the 25 was a "flying restaurant" (according to his cia bio book). Maybe, maybe not...

But the F-35 surely it provide a buffet of easy money, and a "restaurant" shaped like a coffin. A major blunder.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 15:46 utc | 59

Lozion | Dec 2 2019 15:20 utc | 53 (fulford)

Thanks. I agree. Bits of meat mixed with something, ah, from the posterior area.

Like I wrote, a grain of salt, (or more)

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 15:49 utc | 60

#38, #39, etc Re: Epstein, Andrew, Maxwell

Surely it is relevant that since the reopening of the case against Epstein in June, and especially since Epstein's "suicide" in early August, Prince Andrew has kept in "near constant" contact with Ghislane Maxwell:

Why would Prince Andrew want to keep in contact with Maxwell? Here's one reason: he is being blackmailed and instructed by her to follow a particular course of action or else....

This would offer a rationale for Prince Andrew's otherwise inexplicable and disastrous recent television interview, which succeeded in further removing press attention from the larger trafficking/blackmail aspects of the Epstein op and focusing it instead on one of their favorite topics: the royalty and their shenanigans.

Remember: in the modern state pedophilia and blackmail go hand in hand...

Maxwell was likely Epstein's handler and, in some respects, he was working for her, not vice versa as it is usually portrayed.

Andrew is still afraid of her. Who else is afraid? Perhaps Andrew's interview was a veiled message from Maxwell to many others that the compromising tapes did not "die" with Epstein...

Posted by: WJ | Dec 2 2019 16:06 utc | 61

Looks like the NYTimes is at it again manufacturing consent for war with Iran

They have two articles today taking down Iran

What Iran Did Not Want You to See
“In the wake of an internet shutdown, one human rights researcher sifts through video evidence of atrocities.”

With Brutal Crackdown, Iran Is Convulsed by Worst Unrest in 40 Years
“What started as a protest over a surprise increase in gasoline prices turned into widespread demonstrations met with a systematic repression that left at least 180 people dead.”

As always will be looking to hear about the real story from b

Posted by: Stever | Dec 2 2019 16:26 utc | 62

@Posted by: migueljose | Dec 2 2019 15:27 utc | 55

Thanks for your (first) link. A worthy read.

Now I will check out your second link.

Thanks again

Posted by: librul | Dec 2 2019 16:31 utc | 63

#62 Stever,

Would not be surprised if this editorial directive came straight from the Home Office of the NY Times in Tel Aviv.

Naziyahoo desperately needs to make something happen that is big and destructive and lasting enough to keep him in power and out of jail. But if that does happens Tel Aviv is likely to be destroyed. But it is better Tel Aviv be destroyed than Naziyahoo goes to prison, in his own eyes at least.

Iran is that something. Expect a huge Likud-networked propaganda push against Iran in U.S. and U.K. corporate press and via social media in the coming days.

The aim is to move U.S. public opinion toward accepting/demanding a humanitarian "response" to Iranian "regime" that involves bombing out their infrastructure.

I sometimes wonder whether Trump's imperialist machinations in Central and South America are not timed to give him some plausible deniability as to why he is only half-heartedly doing Netanyahoo's bidding re: Iran. The Venezuela push coincided with an earlier high-point of U.S.-Iranian tension (probably involving at least some amount of Israeli instigation), and now we have Bolivia, and then Trump's recent comments about Nicaragua and Mexico. Maybe Trump and/or some factions in the Pentagon think that the best way of resisting Zionist pressure in the Middle East is to busy the U.S. military with imperial adventures closer to home. (Of course, these geographically separate undertakings are complementary and part of a single Anglo-Zionist project; it is the *timing* of them I am talking about here.)

Posted by: WJ | Dec 2 2019 16:42 utc | 64

Thousands of indictments finally hit the printers on 9th December! Or do they?

Years of rumours and hope spread by Q-anon and many others, including very recently and very directly by Trump, himself, finally come to a conclusion on the 9th December!

9th December is when the Horowitz Report is finally released. Comey was not charged with anything resulting from the Mueller Report because, as it was let-known, such charges would be minor when compared to what was going to befall Comey with the release of the Horowitz Report.

(It is worth recalling that the main message from the outcome of the Mueller Report was that Trump did not collude with the Russians in their attempts to interfere in the US elections but that the Russians did interfere [based on no or weak evidence] in the US elections.)

It was believed that the Horowitz Report would, in part, actually investigate the evidence of Russian interference and collude that it was rubbish. But it seems that is not what the Horowitz Report will be saying at all.

Indications are that the Horowitz Report will determine that the investigations into Trump were warranted because they were based on manipulated reports by a junior FBI officer - in other words, Obama, Comey, etc. acted in good faith (and as they should have) but were misled by a junior FBI Officer. Russian interference in the US elections will (like in the Mueller Report) be accepted as fact. In other words the Horowitz Report will be a whitewash, no one did anything wrong, apart from this Junior FBI Officer (who, I believe, has already been dismissed).

So let's summarise the outcome of the Mueller Report and Horowitz Report (and at the same time appreciate Barr's role as a Deep State Fixer [can anyone really doubt that Barr didn't fix the Epstein issue as well?]):




Soon only one loose end will be left and that is the Trump Impeachment and Biden's situation (really the US deep state corruption of finance and resources from Ukraine - but, do Americans really care about the destruction the US inflicted on Ukraine?) but, dare-I-say, an obvious trade seems to suggest itself?

So now TRUMP, CLINTON & OBAMA, shake hands and say after me, and, at the same time, all you Americans and westerners join in "IT'S ALL RUSSIA'S FAULT! RUSSIA'S TO BLAME! SANCTION RUSSIA! LETS PREPARE FOR WAR WITH RUSSIA!" (Rest of the world looks on while their jaws hit the floor!")

Trump will have nothing more to worry about and all it took was betraying all his promises and all the people who voted for him but "IT WAS THE RUSSIANS!"

Q-anon? Drain the swamp? Indictments? All I have to say to Americans (and westerners) is just wait until' JP Morgan collapses and then you will know that you have been fiddling while everything has been hallowed out - that, really you knew all along and did nothing - and it will be too late to do anything! And you will be left with no money, no jobs, huge, unpay-able debts, a situation far worse that Russia in the nineties and with only one option (war) as a possible solution.

Posted by: ADKC | Dec 2 2019 16:52 utc | 65

@54: "The Spider's Web" is partly based on Nicholas Shaxson's book "Treasure Islands". Highly recommended.

In the book, you will also find more information on Delaware's role in the tax-dodging business. Joe Biden's turf.

Posted by: Cherrycoke | Dec 2 2019 16:58 utc | 66

I just watched the video provided by BM in #54 and encourage others to watch it.

I wrote in comments before that the real reason for BREXIT is because the UK does not want to adhere to financial transparency requirements of the EU and that video further cements that belief of mine and others.

Follow the money......

Humanity is in a civilization war over public/private finance...believe that and see what is going on through that perspective.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2019 17:32 utc | 67

WJ | Dec 2 2019 16:06 utc | 61 (That Good Man, Andy and the lady M)

How was it that, some say, Dianna died in that "accident"?

Her Royalness may whisper out "who will ride me of this troublesome child?"

In the affair Epstein one may imagine a diversion from the more serious crimes...which are so dark and evil, and involves, they say, the kiddies...ever so cute.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 17:33 utc | 68

First, to karlof1 on winter and fall - my framework for both of these is that Thanksgiving (when in my part of the world we usually have the first winter storm - and did this time with severity) is the beginning of winter. And then, the winter solstice is the beginning of spring. That gives me only a month of winter - I can live with that!

Then, to your post @ 20, reading Pepe's piece and viewing the photo of the peasant trudging along, I wonder what effect global warming will be having there this spring? We already know, or should know, how drastically Alaska is being changed, and reading de Toqueville's descriptions of the actual land mass occupied by the US, the peoples affected by colonization and the changes as expansion sea to sea was happening - shall we see something similar there?

What happens with climate change is that different areas become crop growing places, and basically communities develop around that. Aridity affects established metropolises as farmlands can no longer supply and at Chaco, the farmers simply moved elsewhere.

The other link you gave had this: "...Unfortunately, the only global solution would be a second American Revolution..." But, this seemed a contradiction to what he, Zuesse, was already describing - how could there be such in the heart of the problem? Surely forces are ready, willing, and waiting here in the US for any such occurrence - they are so swift to glom onto the least sign of protest in other countries, and we've already seen how our own true whistleblowers are treated. That era, revolutionary times, has passed; we no longer can rely on those methods simply because they are being used against us.

It doesn't mean we can't resist. It is still very important to speak truth to power, in whatever manner we still have the freedom to do this. But force against force - really? I think the days of color revolutions, and even of actions such as the one in Bolivia are going to come to an end. I don't foresee how, except that I can't look at what psychohistorian is saying without bemusement. The financial ice is so thin, supported only by unfriendliness, brute force, isolating factors like shock and awe. We are on a drifting iceberg and the seas are warming...

Posted by: juliania | Dec 2 2019 17:36 utc | 69

Why do the UK polls appear to show the Conservatives headed to big victory? jayc @ 6.

- Polls are most often run by private cos. who need to please their customers. Self-fulfilling prophecies, stroking the back, etc. (Plus, as some point out, to influence results.)

- However being wrong repeatedly will be bad for biz so some ‘balance’ must be found. A thin line there. Dicey. They try.

- Polls (by com. cos.) are run as cheaply as possible, to earn money. As the cheapo polls don’t do a good job (sample size, questions, method of interrogation, outside contractors, tabulating results, etc.) the bosses ‘adjust’ the recorded results with ‘weighing’ and other measures. Statistical contorsions / corrections are blindly indulged in, results are quite fanciful.

- The Tories do have an advantage (imho .. obviously) but as I posted before, Labour will do much better than expected, but that will NOT be enough for a ‘straight-out’ Labour win.

- UK Polls are atrocious at prediction, far worse than US or French ones. Due for a large part to the fact that ‘support for Tories’ or Labour or any other /xyz/ as measured can not ever predict what will happen in 650 constituencies with only some candidates standing and a first-past-the-post system with tactical voting and abstention rampant. A crap-shoot, say.

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 2 2019 17:43 utc | 70

Sorry, misspelled - de Tocqueville!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 2 2019 17:46 utc | 71

ADKC @ 65

Paul Craig Roberts concurs.

and i do too. like i said earlier, it'll take a catastrophic event.

Posted by: john | Dec 2 2019 17:54 utc | 72

I am grateful for the psychological explanation by Gabor Mate (video), I have had a very hard time reconciling how
so many intelligent people I know fell for the Russiagate folly.

@Posted by: migueljose | Dec 2 2019 15:27 utc | 55

So thanks again migueljose (I thanked you already for the first link @63)
for the second link, the link to Gabor Mate's video.

A particularly fun fact (and good catch by yours truly) is that
at the 22.41 mark of the Gabor Mate video there is a hysterical Newsweek headline:
Why Clinton Lost: What Russia did to control the American Mind and Put Trump in the White House.
The headline is the title of an article by Jessica Kwong written two years ago - 11/18/17.
As you may recall Newsweek said, "You're Fired!" just one day ago
to Jessica Kwong because she got caught producing blatant fake news. In all the fakery that has transpired
a Newsweek writer gets fired over a "Trump is golfing story". Ha !

Makes me laugh!

Starting at the 9:23 mark of the video there is a replay of a few choice snippets from the utter lunacy and hysteria
the MSM subjected it's viewers to during Russiagate - my first reaction was embarrassment for
my fellow Americans and then fear, fear that seemingly sane people are potentially just one slight
away mob mania.

At the 12:30 mark ("incredible historical amnesia") is also a good history reminder about Robert Mueller.

Even though in total I give the video high marks, I take extreme exception to what Gabor Mate said at the 22:51 mark.
He lets the MSM off the hook
saying, very roughly, that he didn't think anyone (the MSM and various pundits) was deliberately trying to peddle
anything or scare people but that they just got caught up in a tsunami of fear and paranoia and shock reaction.
A bit later, though, he got closer to the truth when he said, "They signed on to the elite narrative".

Gabor Mate offers an explanation for how the public fell for and bought into the Russiagate narrative
but he makes no mention whatsoever of the role of the Deep State, in particular the intelligence services,
in originating and pushing the delusions. The MSM **sourced** ceaselessly from the Deep State to push the Russiagate narrative.
It wasn't an innocent act "they got caught up in a tsunami of fear..." ,as Gabor Mate says, by the MSM,
**rather** the MSM was the essential mouthpiece driving the Russiagate creation of the Deep State.

Again, I am grateful for the psychological explanation by Gabor Mate, I have had a very hard time reconciling how
so many intelligent people I know fell for the Russiagate folly.

Posted by: librul | Dec 2 2019 18:22 utc | 73

I do not imagine that there is any way to avoid catistrophic event.

also, "Spider's Web" (YT) is so cool! Thanks!

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 18:23 utc | 74

59 Walter;Red Army?

Posted by: dahoit | Dec 2 2019 18:26 utc | 75

Well, the RedStar remains, and it's red. It's a figure of speech, but as did the Red Army of USSR, so does the RU Army represent, ah, certain capabilities, certain policies. Withal. it's merely a name. The Army is tough as toolsteel. And they would benefit if the fascist did not steal one of those modern OTH radars.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 18:33 utc | 76

librul @73 I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your thoughts about Gabor Mate. I agree with you about the crucial and diabolical role people in the intelligence agencies play in the deceptions which build our collective perceptions which are no less than fairy tales-- lies and exaggerations interlaced with a certain percentage of truths to elicit conformity from an addicted public dependent on their source (the dealer)of information, food, etc.
I read Mate's book "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" which details his work with mostly heroin addicts in Vancouver; he continously interjects personal stories of his addiction to classical music, exploring the roots/causes that triggered and fed his addiction, the impact on his family along with stories of his patients. The book is masterful, deep insights into how he has developed as a human being, very humble, very honest, courageous, he is a true role model for those of us who have chosen to take the risk of probing deeper and speaking out in favor of humanity and against the rot of our dying empire. There are more youtube videos of him if you are interested. His son Aaron is also a good investigative reporter with his show "pushback" which can be found on the Grayzone website.

Posted by: migueljose | Dec 2 2019 18:59 utc | 77

Hong Kong.
>University president Teng Jin-guang reveals that of more than 1,100 people arrested over campus siege, only 46 were PolyU students<

CGTN is reporting that the PRC will sanction 5 US non-profit organisations (fake NGOs) including Human Rights Watch, Freedom House and National Endowment for Democracy, for their role in the Hong Kong riots - aka interference in China's internal affairs.

A Google search for "China sanctions 5 US NGOs" turned up fresh stories on the subject from The Usual Suspects (Christian Colonial MSM) revealing that the 5 NGOs have offices in China/Hong Kong.

It'll be fun observing the verbal contortions deemed necessary to paint lipstick on those 5 Little Piggies...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 2 2019 19:28 utc | 79

It seems that wikipedia is going to be kaputski...sorta

(according to Presstv)

"Following a proposal by President Vladimir Putin on the creation of a national encyclopedia that would replace the ‘unreliable’ Wikipedia, the Russian government has announced plans to establish an online site to fulfill that objective.

Officials in Moscow said on Sunday that the move would ensure that the Russian people had access to “reliable information that is constantly updated on the basis of scientifically verified sources of knowledge.”

Geewhiz! After all that hard work, too.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 20:19 utc | 80

Re: Post by Walter @80

For entertainment I like to compare English language articles in Wikipedia to articles on the same topics in other languages (the CIA has relatively limited manpower [gender-fluid-term]power to doctor articles in all languages).

Compare the articles on China's "Green Wall" program to fight the growth of the Gobi Desert in English and Russian to see just how jingoistic and jaundiced the material intended for consumption in America is.

The typical American is so immersed in this crap that they would not be able to see anything wrong with the English language version. Nearly every piece of media they consume is warped this way, so it seems normal to them. Once one recognizes this then the hysteria and delusion in America begins to make more sense.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2019 20:56 utc | 81

Yes, that's so. I try to do that within my own limited linguistic abilities. Alas, no Russian, no Chinese, but some French, Latin ,and German...and some study of Rhetoric. Long also Folger Library did Shakespeare in juxtaposition, the original on the facing page to the "modern" English. Similarly it is informative to juxtapose propaganda pieces in the forms pitched rhetorically to target readers.

Speaking of Rhetoric, Brother Craig (Murray)gave a good speech...: Free the truth.

He's watered down the reality, but even so, it was a brave speech. And a brave man...guided by "inner light" I expect...truth to power an' all that.

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 21:05 utc | 82

Did you remember that on the video I posted yesterday where a guy in HK was beating a citizen unconscious with a huge metal bar, I make you notie that the guy i nquestion did not seem a Chinese but a foreigner, and that I pointed at him being one of the unemployed from Syria

Well it seems that I failed the shot for seems that it was one from the unemployed in the Ukraine...But, well, in the end it is the same trainning school of death squads...

Some strange tourists have arrived in HK...

Now that Janine Añez has taken power in Bolivia, and that in the next elections they will have asured the victory since no other party but theirs will be allowed to guess some squad the Juventud Cruceñista will be landing in HK soon too...

The people in the comments below are wondering how these thugs could have arrived in HK...Well, how they arrive anywhere? With the unestimable help of the US Embassy and NGOs and Fascist International network...

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 2 2019 21:08 utc | 83

Larger photos of Azov nazis in Hong Kong:

Posted by: S | Dec 2 2019 21:38 utc | 84

thanks sasha and s for that info..

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2019 22:14 utc | 85

@Posted by: S | Dec 2 2019 21:38 utc | 84

Notice that they dress the "official uniform" of US provoked riotts...
Black t-shirt and bermuda and Western TM cap....Only their masks are different...
Sophisticated masks no doubt...

As we count here with several, if not a bunch, of US military people commenting...may be they can trace these sophisticated kaki masks to the point of origin....

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 2 2019 22:14 utc | 86

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 2 2019 20:56 utc | 81

I don't think the American people is inherently stupid.

But I do think they are stupid - and they are stupid because they want to, not because they genetically are.

The reason the American people chose to be stupid is very simple in my opinion: because it is in their geopolitical interests to be so. Well, if the very survival of your Walmart cheap goods, cheap gas and cheap services depend on the invasion of Iraq and Syria, on constant regime changes in Latin America and on keeping China in its place, then you better choose to live in ignorance in order to be morally and politically coherent. It's like whistling in the dark: you know the menace is out there, but there's nothing you can do about it, so you choose to pretend it doesn't exist -- this is the postmodern creed of appearance over reality (which is necessary to state here is also one of the fundamental principles of nazifascism).

To put in simpler words: the Americans are reasonably stupid, i.e. they are stupid because stupidity suits them in this historical conjuncture, because it is a conscious political decision they, as a society, made decades ago.

Posted by: vk | Dec 2 2019 22:53 utc | 87

It seems that amongst the Azov tourist recently seen in Hong Kong there is, Serhii Sternenko the guy who headed the Azov thugs who torched the Odessa House of Unions with all the anti-Maidan militants inside and finished, by beating, those who could scape the hell...

Sometimes...opportunities arise to make justice...taking into account that this is, after all, China....and the Odessa massacre has been widely documented as crime against humanity...Catching the guy and handing him to the Russian authorities would be not only an homage to the memory of those who fell in the Odessa House of Unions, but a favor to humanity...While at the same time a good slap in the face to the organizers of all this...">Why Are Ukrainian Neo-Nazis Joining the Hong Kong Protests?

But they are there most probably because there is no extradition law in effect already....and it is obvious they have been sent as reinforcement after the big raid at the PolyU...

But, what could happen if an Europol order would be releashed?
Here, the EU could start whasing out their own part of blame in the Ukranian shamefull nazi experiment...

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 2 2019 22:58 utc | 88

Sorry buy the HTML codying went obviously incomplet...
May be someone can corect it before the people start complaining...

Posted by: Sasha | Dec 2 2019 23:01 utc | 89

Mark Sleboda's twitter has "Hong Cong Hermit" tweets on this matter of the Ukcronazi "tourists".

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 23:04 utc | 90

sashas link@ 88

Why Are Ukrainian Neo-Nazis Joining the Hong Kong Protests?

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2019 23:15 utc | 91

you know those freaks are faily easily identifiable... i would be curious if the chinese intel services wanted to really throw it back in the wests face, that they would arrest theses freaks and make a public display of them...

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2019 23:18 utc | 92

@ james. It may be that the Strategy of RU and CH aligns with the idea that "they will collapse soon", as President P recently said. (some say dollar, some say difference in outcome)

If so, if the Strategy is to play the game out while their "partner" is weakened by his own contradictions, then it might not suit RU and or CH to do as you suggest. Stoking the fire generally leads to massive conflagration. The time for Trials is suited to Victory, not conflict, is it not?

It's a bit like mathematics... (VVP)

Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 23:54 utc | 93

@92 'simply a bit of protest tourism...' I love Russian humour.

Posted by: dh | Dec 3 2019 0:10 utc | 94

@93 walter.. i think you are right about that... thanks! this craziness can't go on for forever..

protest tourism, lol.. i missed that dh!

Posted by: james | Dec 3 2019 0:13 utc | 95

The individuals that appear in the links provided by Sasha, S, and james above are members of what are called "death squads".

Don't mince words. That's what these subhuman monsters are.

They are in Hong Kong on assignment from the CIA. We all know that.

They are in Hong Kong to kill.

The CIA has been unable to recruit sufficient murderers and psycho killers in Hong Kong to employ the standard "regime change" pattern (promote protests, then murder protesters and police to trigger large-scale rioting). The rioting to date has been too small-scale to work. Blood needs to be spilled. That's why these horribly diseased rabid dogs have been brought in from Ukraine.

Unless the Chinese exterminate these animals very soon there will be killing of human beings that the capitalist mass media can blame on the authorities. Hopefully the Chinese are monitoring this thread and take this warning very seriously.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2019 0:19 utc | 96

@96 Monitoring this thread? I'll bet the Chinese security people got these guys number at the airport when they flew in and they're keeping a very close eye on them.

Posted by: dh | Dec 3 2019 0:29 utc | 97

@97 Actually I wouldn't be surprised if someone slips something nasty in their wontons.

Posted by: dh | Dec 3 2019 0:40 utc | 98

@ William Gruff and dh in comments #96-98

The tell for me that there were CIA agents in the Hong Kong mix at the university was the organized escape of a few of them. I remember reading and seeing pictures about a few escaping off ropes or such down onto a road where they were quickly picked up by motorcyclists and hurried off.

Given China's ability to monitor internet traffic/messages I conjecture that they had a private frequency radio/internet link going short distance from the university to "headquarters" to coordinate such and pull it off...trained and highly supported saboteurs (death squads if you prefer)

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 3 2019 0:55 utc | 99

@99 One would think this particular death squad would be a little more discrete no? Tattoos and T shirts walking down Nathan Road....looks like another ham-fisted Ukrainian operation to me. If the protesters really want another Maidan I'm sure they have people who blend in better.

Posted by: dh | Dec 3 2019 1:02 utc | 100

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