Saudi Arabia Retreats From The Troubles Its Clown Prince Caused
When the Saudi King Salman promoted his son Mohammad bin Salman (MbS) to Defense Minister and then Crown Prince the expectations were high. But three of the major projects Muhammad launched since then soon ran into trouble. Now initiatives are under way to limit the damage he caused. The end of the five year old Saudi war on Yemen is coming into sight. The public offering of the Saudi state owned ARAMCO oil company is finally happening but with a much lower valuation than originally planned. The thirty month spat with Qatar is under repair.
On August 17 2019 a Yemeni drone attack on Saudi Arabia's oil installations proved that the Saudis had lost the war. Moon of Alabama's headline empasized the effect that it would have:
Long Range Attack On Saudi Oil Field Ends War On Yemen
Today's attack is a check mate move against the Saudis. Shaybah is some 1,200 kilometers (750 miles) from Houthi-controlled territory. There are many more important economic targets within that range. [...]
The attack conclusively demonstrates that the most important assets of the Saudis are now under threat. This economic threat comes on top of a seven percent budget deficit the IMF predicts for Saudi Arabia. Further Saudi bombing against the Houthi will now have very significant additional cost that might even endanger the viability of the Saudi state. The Houthi have clown prince Mohammad bin Salman by the balls and can squeeze those at will.
A month later another large scale attack disabled half of the Saudi oil output.
The Saudis have since procured additional U.S. military units to provide more air defenses around their oil installations. But U.S. air defenses are not effective against the kind of attacks the Yemenis launched. The Saudis had no choice but to sue for peace.
For several months there have been talks in Oman between Saudi official and Houthi delegations. An preliminary agreement was found but no official announcements were made. That changed today when Saudi Arabia’s Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Adel al-Jubeir made a comment that for the first time recognized the Houthi as a legitimate Yemeni entity:
Speaking on the situation in Yemen, al-Jubeir said that there is a possibility of reaching a truce in the country, which could be followed by a settlement.“Yemen is of particular importance to us, and Iran’s intervention there is devastating. The only solution in Yemen is political, and the Houthis are the ones who started the war, not us.”
“All Yemenis, including the Houthis, have a role in the future of Yemen,” he added.
Today the Saudis also released some 200 prisoners who belonged to the Houthi. They were flown to Yemen's capital Sanaa. The preliminary agreement foresees the forming of a common government by the Houthi and the Saudi controlled former president Hadi.
This is not yet the end of the war. It will take quite some time before a new Yemeni government will evolve as the Saudis still have some unrealistic demands:
Saudi Arabia seems more open to some kind of coexistence with the Houthis in north Yemen through taking control over them from Iran. After signing the Riyadh power-sharing agreement between the separatist Southern Transitional Council and the UN-recognised government in Aden, Saudi Arabia and the UAE seem to be ready to move on to the next phase of their gouty war in Yemen.Instead of the endless fighting, Saudi Arabia is trying to convince the Houthis to sever ties with its regional rival, Iran. After all, all the Houthis want is legitimacy of their new strategic posture in Yemen. This, in their view, must be cited in a similar power-sharing agreement that guarantees their share in a federation-like new system that includes president Abedrabbo Mansour Hadi’s government and separatists in the south.
Iran has never had "control" over the Houthi. Even the U.S. State Department has recently changed course and finally admitted that:
In a shift that analysts said reflects progress in Saudi talks with Yemen’s Houthi rebels to end the Yemen war, State Department Iran envoy Brian Hook said today that Iran does not speak for the Houthis, whom he described as playing a more constructive role in issuing a cease-fire proposal.“We should recall that the Houthis proposed a cessation of missile and air attacks with Saudi Arabia just days after the Iranians struck Saudi oil installations on Sept. 14,” Hook told journalists at the State Department.
“The Houthis’ de-escalation proposal, which the Saudis are responding to, shows that Iran clearly does not speak for the Houthis, nor has the best interests of the Yemeni people at heart,” Hook said. “Iran is trying to prolong Yemen’s civil war to project power. Iran should follow the calls of its own people and end its involvement in Yemen.”
Hook’s comments praising the Houthi de-escalation proposal stand in contrast to how he described the Houthis, in a September Wall Street Journal op-ed, as an Iranian proxy group. He further characterized the Iranian-Houthi relationship as a “strategic alliance.”
The Houthi are not under Iranian control and neither is Hizbullah in Lebanon. These groups are independent political entities which make their own decisions in their own interests. Iran helps those groups during times of need as they will help Iran when necessary. Hook's claim that Iran is trying to prolong Yemen’s war is without any basis.
Iran has enabled the Houthi to resist throughout the 5 years of war the Saudis waged on them. Drones and missiles parts provided by Iran to the Houthi allowed them to compel the Saudis to sue for peace. It is therefore highly unlikely that the Houthi will dissociate themselves from Iran. They will agree to end their attacks on Saudi Arabia if the Saudis end their attacks on Yemen and pay for the damage their war has caused. If the Saudis do not agree to that more of their helicopters will come down in flames and more of their oil installations will be set on fire.
The war on Yemen was started by clown prince Muhammad bin Salman who was then Defense Minister of Saudi Arabia. He had hoped for a fast victory but the well equipped Saudi military proved to be incapable of defeating barefoot Houthi in the mountains of north Yemen. The war costs the Saudis several billions per month and threatens to ruin the state.
Muhammad Bin Salman's other projects did not go any better. He had planned to sell shares of Saudi Aramco at international stock exchanges and at a total valuation of 2 trillion dollar. The move was supposed to bring in $100 billion to finance a further industrialization of the Saudi economy. After many delays Saudi Aramco is now finally making its initial public offering. The shares will start trading on December 11. But the stock will only be listed at the Saudi Tadawul exchange.
The initial share price offer puts the value of the company at $1.7 trillion which is higher than the $1.5 trillion estimate international banks had published. Today the Saudis announced a large cut in their oil output to increase the global oil prices and the company's valuation. That might attract more urgently needed buyers to the IPO. But the stocks will still be sold to mainly domestic entities, if needed with some pressure. Instead of attracting $100 billion of fresh money from abroad some $25.6 billion will be taken out of the left Saudi trouser pocket to be put into the right one. The economic benefit for the country is dubious.
Two and a half years ago the clown prince tried to attack and occupy Qatar. The given ideological reason was the Qatari support for the Muslim Brotherhood. But the real reason was the Saudi need for more money which MbS tried to gain through a real estate and resource grab. The project failed when Turkish troops came to Qatar's aid. The Saudis and its UAE allies then tried to isolate Qatar with an embargo. That failed too but caused the Saudi rulers additional headaches which is why they are now pushing to end the conflict:
[N]ow more than two years on, signs of economic and political fracture are beginning to show not in Qatar, but in its embargoing neighbors. It is these indications that may help explain the countries’ recent conciliatory gestures, including the resolution to join the Arabian Gulf Cup in Doha and contemporaneous remarks by Saudi and Emirati officials suggesting a newfound openness to ending the dispute.
...
Since the oil crash of 2014, which saw prices plummet from more than $100 per barrel to below $30, all GCC countries have sought to offset enormous budget deficits by embarking on painful, fundamental changes to their oil-based economies.
...
As it happens, the GCC members that have gone the farthest in imposing unpopular reform measures are the blockading states, whereas Kuwait, Oman and Qatar have deferred implementation of the VAT and other structural reforms.
The Saudi rulers fears that their own population will point to Qatar and demand an increase in welfare or lower taxes. If all GCC countries, including Qatar, agree to take the same steps that the Saudis had to take, the chance of a revolt would decrease.
Qatar's foreign minister has recently made a 'secret' visit to Riyadh and the Saudi King has invited the Emir of Qatar to the next GCC meeting. But Qatar has a budget surplus while the Saudis have a 10% deficit. Qatar has no need to follow the economic policies of the other GCC countries. It will only do so if the Saudis are willing to offer something for it.
Three of the clown prince's major projects have failed. On top of that comes the reputational damage that the murder, on MbS' order, of Jamal Khashoggi caused. That the Saudi king has now taken steps to limit the overall damage may have come through the influence of Muhammad bin Salman's younger brother, Khalid bin Salman. KbS had been the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. Since February 2019 he has been the Deputy Defense Minister of Saudi Arabia. He was involved in the talks with the Houthi. It is possible that the king will finally recognize that MbS is not good enough for the job and that Khalid may a better successor to the throne than his brother Mohammad.
Posted by b on December 6, 2019 at 18:59 UTC | Permalink
next page »I always look for positive news at the end of the year. This just might be it!
Posted by: Maracatu | Dec 6 2019 19:16 utc | 2
The attack on Saudi oil facilities was September 14, 2019.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 6 2019 19:18 utc | 3
Oh, I see that b is referencing an earlier, less destructive attack.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 6 2019 19:19 utc | 4
I should think that the King's other surviving brothers will still want their turns as King, if only to forestall the current Clown Prince's accession on his father's death. Khalid bin Salman would be wise to support his uncles and to come to some arrangement with them in which he acts as a de facto regent during their reigns. They are all not likely to last long anyway individually but at least collectively they may gain enough time to work out what to do with Mohammad bin Salman and how to get rid of him.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 6 2019 19:22 utc | 5
@1, Alexander P,
Measure the distance from Iranian anti-ship missiles to the Abraham Lincoln. If the ship is within range, no war will begin against Iran.
When US naval vessels are out of missile range from Iran, then you might keep a close eye on things.
Similarly, if Israel begins a war against Hezbollah, there will first be a large movement of Jews out of Haifa and Tel Aviv. That's the clue that the IDF is getting ready to start something they can't finish.
Yemen was no sideshow. It was an event that proved asymmetrical warfare can punish and win against all odds and every disadvantage of wealth, numbers, superior arms, and SuperPower support.
Posted by: Red Ryder | Dec 6 2019 19:23 utc | 6
How timely your article is! Trump helped and protected that butcher MBS and now karma returned to bite him in the ass. A Saudi national training in Florida shot up a U.S. naval base in Pensacola Florida killing 3 and wounding countless other service members.
That's what happens when you aid and abet the real enemy. But noooh, let's attack Afghanistan or Iran instead!
TRUMP IS KISSING THE SAUDI RING. FLORIDA HAS THE POWER TO THROW TRUMP OUT OF OFFICE.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 6 2019 19:33 utc | 7
North Korea is a cautionary tale. Moves toward peace are not always what they seem.
It seems to me that everything ultimately hinges on the Iranian conflict. Nothing will really be resolved until peace or war with Iran.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 6 2019 19:37 utc | 8
@ Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 6 2019 19:13 utc | 1 with the scenario of escalation of conflict in the ME
I agree that what you posit is possible and desired by some but question the details. Empire needs a REAL war to distract the Western masses and focus that energy on a Trumped up (pun intended) enemy.
B's posting though is interesting in that it speculates a change to Saudi Arabia leadership which could change the dynamics in the region significantly. And given more of b's posting about developments in Yemen and Qatar, who knows what will evolve.
In the mean time the West is still under the dictatorship of global private finance and is warring against China that has a public finance core to its civilization.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 6 2019 19:45 utc | 9
@6 Not if the Lincoln is the False Flag target, their sacrificial lamb. The carrier was in the Arabian Sea near Oman until November 20, there was no reason for it to be moved into the Gulf now. Now it is within sight of Iranian oil fields. Currently no other carrier is in the area and we know that they are capable of sacrificing an old and soon to be decommissioned Carrier for their nefarious plans.. And two days ago the Pentagon said Iran was moving short range missiles into Iraq. I don't think under such a scenario they could previously start evacuating Israeli cities but if the Lincoln gets attacked/sunk then Israel will certainly move and evacuate!
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 6 2019 19:48 utc | 10
Khalid-Mohammed, tomahto, tomayto, 3 brothers, three stooges, who cares! Take a cue from the French. They solved the monarchy problem with riots, revolution and a guillotine.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 6 2019 19:52 utc | 11
Saudi Arabia is the USA's most important ally. If it falls, it would be a huge blow to the American Empire (Petrodollar).
MbS' theory to nuclearize Saudi Arabia is failed by design. It was tried in Brazil of the 1990s. It even has a name in Economics: it's called "dependency theory".
The dependency theory states that a commodities exporting country can easily industrialize if it saves cash from said exports in order to buy machinery and know-how from the industrialized nations. Other more sophisticated versions call for the perfect timing of the commodity cycles in order to hoard cash but the principle is the same.
This theory is a fallacy because that's not how the capitalist system works:
First, capitalism is not a national system, but a global system: the nation-State only exists insofar as it is a subdivision of the capitalist order; not the opposite. There is no "American capitalism", "European capitalism", "African capitalism" or "Japanese capitalism": there's only one capitalist architecture that divides its composition (quantitatively and qualitatively) across the entire globe.
Secondly, capitalism, as a social system, needs to reproduce itself. Capitalism does this with valorisation, i.e. the accumulation of surplus value, which comes from the conversion of human labor into abstract labor (value). This whole mass of value is then separated into two parts: the first -- simply called "capital" (C) -- is used to reproduce the entire already existing mass of capital (i.e. reproduce the entire society as it already is); the second is the profits, i.e. the excess value that goes beyond the mere maintenance of the existing state of the society. That means the industrialized nations will always absorb more value than the non-industrialized nations, since they have larger concentrations of capital (i.e. a higher organic composition of capital).
Thirdly, commodity exporters will always have to burn their reserves eventually because their exports are inelastic, i.e. demand doesn't grow as supply grows after an absolute point. As b highlighted in his post, the Saudis had to lower oil production in order to raise its prices -- but they sold less, as they had to lower production. They only did it to speculate in the stock markets -- which is fictitious capital.
The only Third World country which managed to get out of this trap was China. China managed to do that for the simple reason it is not a capitalist country, but a socialist one.
Last week I noticed that a news report on the Oman negotiations referred to Khalid bin Salman as "KbS". One would not use the three-letter acronym ("JFK", "LBJ") unless he was seen as a potential challenger to MbS.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 6 2019 20:08 utc | 13
Amazing the effort to maintain the Narrative while admitting defeat:
"'Yemen is of particular importance to us, and Iran’s intervention there is devastating. The only solution in Yemen is political, and the Houthis are the ones who started the war, not us.'"
One of the major blocks deterring Iran's proposed HOPE collective security agreement now seems to be moving out of the way. IMO, its adoption is the only rational way forward to providing the groundwork for the region's BRI projects to begin. Then the biggest nut/knot can start being cracked/cut--Occupied Palestine. It's genuinely possible to envision the evolution of Eurasia once the Evil Outlaw US Empire's removed from the scene. And the same applies to the bigger planetwide picture.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 6 2019 20:20 utc | 14
and this will not sit well, flashback memories:
Terrorism Probe Opened After Pensacola Shooter IDed As Saudi National Mohammed Alshamrani; Was There For Pilot Training
"The AP is reporting that the suspect in Friday's shooting at a Navy base in Pensacola, Fla. is a Saudi Arabian national. He was attending aviation school in the US, which should raise eyebrows: The last group of Saudi nationals who sought flight lessons in the US pulled off 9/11."
And Really Alexander P @ 6. U.S.A will not take on Iran. Oh they may try a Bagdahi - only $15 man? or a frame up
Why the english markings?
Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 6 2019 21:03 utc | 15
Finally, vk, you write something that I agree with.
Capitalism is a globalist system, but you are kidding yourself if you think socialism as envisioned by Marx is not equally a globalist system.
World socialism in its Hegelian dialectic, seeks the supranational supremacy of the worker-class with no international boundaries. It also seeks the destruction of the nation.
Thus, the only non-globalist and tenable system is one that begins with a nationalist paradigm. You can have a socialist-tempered nation or a capitalist-tempered one. In the end, the daylight between the two is miniscule enough and yet people will die swearing against the other.
Go figure.
Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Dec 6 2019 21:21 utc | 16
@15 We'll see, I hope to be wrong of course as a war there would cause global calamities.
But let's face it, the sudden draw down in Afghanistan and renewed push for peace there, the increase in troops in Saudi Arabia. Jordan apparently conducting war drills against Israel, now Israel doing its own drills and missile tests. Bibi again saying Israel would occupy the Jordan valley, one indication too many for me that something big will give soon, even in a volatile region as this one.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 6 2019 21:37 utc | 17
thanks for the links Circe 7@ and @ Likklemore @ 15
can't sell airplanes if you d/n first train the pilots to fly them. X needs the business<= imagine training exercise<=practice taking out that tall building
Posted by: snake | Dec 6 2019 21:40 utc | 18
@ 17
Not yet widely recognized but with all of Trump's efforts and his predecessors the U.S. dominance in ME is now surpassed.
U.S. has always blown the Saxophone at Israel's command. Now, still blowing against the wind to keep pretences up and help Bibi to distract from his indictments.
The U.S. has been defending Israel since Palestinian lands were craved up and then stolen. U.S. has set up a base in Israel. Does the U.S. now have to sign a defense treaty with Israel?
US-Israel Defense Treaty Gaining Steam After Pompeo & Netanyahu Meet
A proposed US-Israeli defense treaty is gaining steam after a meeting between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (currently representing an 'interim' government) and US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Lisbon this week.Speaking of the controversial defense pact, Netanyahu told reporters of the Wednesday discussion: “The meeting with Pompeo was critical for Israeli security,” and added, “We agreed to promote a defense pact.”
However, such a controversial pact wold have a long way to go in the domestic politics of both nations, considering it would commit the United States to war to defend Israel. This also at a time when Israel has frequently attacked what it deems 'Iranian targets' inside Syria and Iraq in what both countries have condemned as acts of brazen aggression.[.]
But the proposal is currently having a more direct impact on Israeli politics, given that opposition rival to Netanyahu, Blue and White chairman Benny Gantz, has vehemently opposed it amid stalled power-sharing negotiations which could send Israelis to the polls for a third time within a year. The opposition says such a defense pact is an invitation for Washington to meddle in Israeli affairs.
[.]
(emphasis as found)
He he he. Oh My, on two counts.
Gantz the former military man objecting.
Signing a treaty with an interim head of state who is under indictment for bribery.
I find times are a changing.
Posted by: Likklemore | Dec 6 2019 22:14 utc | 19
Excellent as usual. Many thanks.
Two minor issues:
1. Paragraph 2: “emphatized” looks like it should be “emphasised”; and
2. Recent months there’s been silence on the links between the Russian Federation and the Saudis referred to in various places during the first half of this year. Have you become aware of any developments?
Posted by: Cortes | Dec 6 2019 22:18 utc | 20
Jen at #5
King Salman is the last of the brothers. These are the Suderi Seven, the sons of the founding monarch, King Abdel Aziz, by his favourite wife, Queen Suderi.
The Al-Saud dynasty now has to pass, not just from one King to another, but from one generation to another. And it could very well skip a generation or two, since this line of brothers have been ruling Saudi Arabia since the death of Abdel Aziz, and that was back in 1953.
I would guess that giving the Crown Prince additional powers was King Salman's way of easing in this generational change. He has seen MbS in action, and if he doesn't feel MbS is the best for the job, he can name another of the princes as Crown Prince and heir.
Antoinetta III
Posted by: Antoinetta III | Dec 6 2019 22:33 utc | 21
"They solved the monarchy problem with riots, revolution and a guillotine.'
Yes Circe, that was in 1793. And within nine years the First Consul was Emperor. He was followed, in 1814 by Louis's brother, who was followed by another brother, who was followed by a cousin, who was followed after a brief republic, by the Emperor's nephew.
So the solution was only temporary until Bismarck, without a guillotine stepped in.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 6 2019 22:36 utc | 22
Antoinetta by all accounts King Salman is not making rational decisions. The succession will be decided by a free for all and there will be blood.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 6 2019 22:39 utc | 23
Is this what you mean Alexander P?
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201912061077506395-irans-fm-javad-zarif-claims-israel-testing-nuke-missiles/
Posted by: bevin | Dec 6 2019 22:42 utc | 24
Louis XVIII was the son, not the brother, of Louis XVI. He was the brother of Louis XVII. Perhaps that 's what bevin meant.
Posted by: lysias | Dec 6 2019 23:01 utc | 25
no war will begin against Iran.
Bingo!
They hold he Jokers in the deck.
A world depression would start in 15 minutes after an attack on them.
Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Dec 6 2019 23:02 utc | 26
thanks b... thanks to the commentators as well...
i notice in the quick overview on KBS in wikipedia - "According to Hürriyet columnist Abdulkadir Selvi, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency Gina Haspel had possession of the "smoking gun phone call" in which crown prince Mohammad was recorded giving orders to his brother Khaled, Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the US, "to Silence Jamal Khashoggi as Soon as Possible". The subsequent murder is the ultimate confirmation of this instruction."
i am wondering if KBS is the cia's new first choice here??? is that possible??
and then in one of today's usa press releases we have the same tired condemnation of iran trotted out.. of course the houthi are stooges for iran according to usa state dept... " The past five, six months, Iran has become increasingly more aggressive. There is a trajectory, right, where they have first increased the operational tempo of the Houthis against the Saudis, then raised the rhetoric and the temperature in Iraq against U.S. personnel, moving on from there scuttling boats in Fujairah, then kidnapping boats, then shooting down U.S. drones in international airspace, and most recently Abqaiq, targeting directly with their own missiles Saudi oil facilities."
there is other interesting comments further down in this press release....
the way i see it, the usa is using ksa as a wedge to pursue its ongoing middle east agenda... i can see the wedge breaking at some point.. maybe not right away, but it is in the usa-israels interest to have the wedge around for as long as useful... i still think MBS is walking a dangerous line in all this...
Posted by: james | Dec 6 2019 23:03 utc | 27
@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Dec 6 2019 21:21 utc | 16
You're just reflecting the dominant thinking of your time.
It's true that the dominant ideology of the 20th Century was nationalism. But just because nationalism is still the dominant ideology in our times, it doesn't mean it will be so forever.
Make no mistake: the nation-State will disappear. The future of humanity is unified in the whole Earth. If space colonisation happens, then the people of the time will have another problem in their hands -- but that's not for us to contemplate, not the problem of our times.
@28 vk
What you are saying is quite frightening.
But also humorous because even if humanity were to assemble and build another Tower of Babel, the Lord will promptly tear it asunder.
Those with good sense always question centralized rule by technocrats. Whether good intentions or not, it always leads to evil.
The nation state is the only thing which keeps alive our essential human difference.
Vk, I will continue to pray for your conversion.
Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Dec 7 2019 0:14 utc | 29
@20 Cortes. The budding Russia/Saudi relationship is huge, and I think that is sending the US into panic mode...
An article comes to mind from the Economist(yuck) dated Feb 24, 2018. While I will not attempt to butcher the html, the internet savvy can throw the following phrase in a search engine.
"OPEC mulls a long term alliance with Russia to keep oil prices stable"
Posted by: AntiCapital | Dec 7 2019 0:27 utc | 30
"OPEC mulls a long term alliance with Russia to keep oil prices stable"
Posted by: james | Dec 7 2019 0:31 utc | 31
vk | Dec 6 2019 23:20 utc | 28:
Make no mistake: the nation-State will disappear.
No. The concept of the nation-state will never disappear. The only change would be the border. So, in the unified planet example, the border would be at least the exosphere or at most the heliosphere if Earth.Gov gets greedy. Extra-terrestrial colonies could get messy if the heliosphere border isn't recognized.
Posted by: Ian2 | Dec 7 2019 0:45 utc | 32
The initial public offering of Aramco stock was intended to bring in $4 trillion for the Kingdom. It was to be such a fabulous offering that only the New York Stock Exchange would do as a launch site. However, in order to register on the NYSE, Aramco had to publish independently audited figures on its oil reserves in order to justify such a capitalization, but the reserves have dwindled to the point where they could never justify such a capitalization, and what is left is rapidly diminishing. (See Matthew Simmons book, Twilight in the Desert).
The value of the offering was reduced to $2 trillion, but even that couldn’t be covered by what the Kingdom was willing to publish, so, the whole project came to a dead halt.
Now, it’s $1.7 trillion, but all via the Saudi stock exchange, which, as b pointed out, will be largely another shake down for the locals. (After the last shake down at the Ritz Carlton in 2017, The Wall Street Journal published the figure of $700 billion harvested – not bad, but not enough to keep the waste and corruption of the Kingdom going for long, much less launch a whole new economy.)
The war in Yemen was intended to acquire for the Kingdom the oil in the Empty Quarter (the desolate zone alone the still never surveyed border between the Kindgom and Yemen), however, Yemen has managed to resist this grab. The Kingdom has also failed to get a hold of Qatar’s gas reserves.
The Kingdom’s value to the Evil Empire has been its ability to regulate the oil markets and its huge influence over the OPEC. With its reserves running out, it is losing that ability and influence, hence losing its usefulness for the Evil Empire.
And Venezuela is looming on the horizon for oil.
Remember that on Colonel Ralph Peters’ map for the redrawing of the region’s borders, the Kingdom was to be reduced to Mecca and Medina and their surrounds, a sort of Vatican City writ large.
Things are not looking good for the Kingdom.
Posted by: RJPJR | Dec 7 2019 1:46 utc | 33
red ryder #3
Of course. We can feel comfortable that the US is not going to war with Iran if there is a US air craft carrier battle group in the the Persian Gulf. It would not survive. If three of those groups showed up in the Arabian Sea (out of range of Iran's antiship missile defenses about two or three thousand kms from Iran) then we might begin to worry that war is possible. This has been the situation for at least the last 15 years.
Posted by: ToivoS | Dec 7 2019 1:53 utc | 34
@ Posted by: Ian2 | Dec 7 2019 0:45 utc | 32
Well, in this general and abstract sense, yes.
By "nation-State", I mean the geopolitical entity as established by the Westphalia Treaties. This will end eventually, since it's just a historically specific, social construct.
--//--
@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Dec 7 2019 0:14 utc | 29
Not in the Marxian theory, which states communism will be a stateless (i.e. governmentless) society, where "each will live according to their necessities and contribute according to their capabilites".
Not to confuse with socialism, which is the transitory system between capitalism and communism. Socialism yes, has a government (the "dictatorship of the proletariat").
The nation-State may be of emotional value to many, but its eternal existence is utopic:
For startes, they don't exist as many nationalists think they do: most of today's nation-States can't even produce all the food their own peoples need to survive (that is true even for most of the devoloped European countries, such as the UK). The best nation-States to live in can only maintain their vaunted lifestyles thanks to constant and crescent imports. So, only on the food issue alone we can already see a high degree of interdependence among most nation-States. Indeed, the far-right has met its revival in the First World countries precisely when globalisation stopped growing, not when it begun to grow: it's only now, when the cake has stopped growing, that the far-right is coming to the rescue of the peoples of the First World (as an ideology to rationalize the extermination and re-enslavement of the peoples of the Third World).
But even in the sphere of pure geopolitics, we can observe that, in practice, there is an inevitable hyerarchy between the nation-States. The bigger and richer ones inevitably bend the demestic and cultural politics of the smaller ones -- these are the "spheres of influence". Indeed, this has always happened in our History: for example, almost all Western culture is either Greek or Roman, while almost all Asian culture is either Indian or Chinese. We use the Latin alphabet, while the Asians use either the Chinese or the Indian alphabets. We here, in this blog, are communicating in English -- for the simple fact the USA is today's hegemon. And the American hegemony was reached mainly through commerce, not direct violence.
In the cultural front, we have that most nation-States didn't arise because they had a unique culture or a unique idiom. On the contrary, most of them are simply a figment of colonialist imagination, made from scratch by European entrepeneurs. In that sense, most nation-States are "artificial". The myth of the nation-State=culture is an European fairytale created to legitimize the balkanization of Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire after WWI. This kind of "cultural nationalism" simply doesn't exist outside Europe, USA and Japan.
Saudi Arabia is also going to lose most of its foot soldiers for hire ion the Yemen war:
"Sudan ‘s new Prime Minister Abdalla Hamdok has pledged to withdraw all Sudanese troops from the conflict."
https://www.uprising.today/sudanese-prime-minister-vows-to-withdraw-from-yemen/
Posted by: krollchem | Dec 7 2019 2:55 utc | 36
@ RJPJR #33 "The Kingdom’s value to the Evil Empire has been its ability to regulate the oil markets..."
When Nixon broke the gold dollar, the Treasury dept. quietly set up a secret deal with KSA. KSA would be blessed above all other nations; the Treasury dept (!?!!) would industrialize KSA from 3rd world to 1st world with modern infrastructure; the US would quietly stand behind KSA and protect it with a nuclear umbrella; and the US would look the other way on human rights abuses.
In return, KSA would act as a global sink for (petro-)dollars, and always sequester its excess cash, like buried carbon, into Treasuries.
Dollars are like bathtub water. Or electricity. There is a source (the Fed); the currency flows around a while; and then there must be a sink where the current is grounded, or else it floods and builds up like a van de graff generator ready to explode. The only other sinks for dollars are haircuts, bankruptcies, or pure loan defaults; otherwise the dollars you pay over here end up in someone else's pocket over there, and the global dollars supply, like matter, is naturally conserved.
But the Fed is printing trillions a year for the gov't to spend wastefully. So if trillions a year EVERY YEAR are not annihilated from the world supply and taken off the table somewhere else, the USDollar will become completely debased in short order.
So, Propping up KSA has quietly been seen as an existential requirement for America's entire economy to survive; and, by extension, most of the rest of the world's. I believe this explains Trump's initial support for MbS in Khashoggi.
But with the immanent death of the petro-dollar, America rapidly needs to find a new way to annihilate money. Note spending on fancy fireworks annihilates stuff, not money, as the cash still flows to the contractors. Student loan repudiation will cover some but not all. If the US gov't sold trillions of dollars of electricity and food a year, then burned its income, this could balance. Otherwise, the dollar seems headed rapidly for debasement.
Posted by: Imagine | Dec 7 2019 4:40 utc | 37
Pearls from the Great Deceiver in Chief:
The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people.
The Saudi people like Osama bin Laden and 15 of the 9/11 hijackera all LOVE the merican people.
Trump just lies through his teeth to cover his ass and people gobble it up.
Trump made a big mistake funding and arming the Saudis. That's how much Trump hates Iran that never did anything to U.S. Now he'll have to answer for this tragedy. Pity.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 7 2019 5:57 utc | 38
Posted by: vk | Dec 6 2019 23:20 utc | 28
"Make no mistake: the nation-State will disappear. The future of humanity is unified in the whole Earth."
I'd say it's the opposite: If people don't stop squatting on Earth's surface as masses (meaning that both physically and in terms of the ideas they hold) and resume close integration with watersheds and landbases on a traditional basis, hominids certainly will destroy themselves completely, the apex victims of their own campaign of mass extermination of species.
B I hate to break it to you but Yemen is a side-show.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 6 2019 19:13 utc | 1
What a disgusting comment.
A massive genocide is committed against Yemen the civilian population and you dismiss it as a "side-show". Have you no compassion for the people of Yemen who threatened nobody?
Besides, your 'analysis' is on multiple levels vaccuous in taking no notice of relevant constraining factors, such as those that Red Ryder quotes Posted by: Red Ryder | Dec 6 2019 19:23 utc | 6. The Gulf is densely lined with Iranian anti-ship missiles, all US assets in the region are under direct threat, as are all Emirati and Saudi economic assets. The US military is according to multiple accounts unwilling to bear the unacceptable but guaranteed losses of an attack on Iran, not to mention the complete collapse of the western economic system. Wildly insane Netanyahoo might still try to force the US hand to save himself from jail, but is unlikely to get very far, though it is certainly very dangerous.
Posted by: BM | Dec 7 2019 6:44 utc | 40
go back 10 yrs and open 9/11, there wasn't a plane in the pentagon, there wasn't a plane in the countryside, and steel doesnt melt in aviation fuel, AMerryCar out of control because of cultural glitz and terrorists from the inside, no wonder your shootings, your honesty is carput, the Masons rule the Queen and your Democrats, they have done for hundreds of years, you'll never listen to children walking in the streets, or pics of crazed radar-dogs geoengineering you with nanotechnology aimed at the goals of the Guideline Stones in Georgia and Agenda 21, thats why the rest of the world looks on in horror as your dishonesty is read all over your faces, get off your famous arses and open 9/11 and purge yourselves, not with gospel shit with compassion and respect for other law abiding countries!
Posted by: ian trafford walker | Dec 7 2019 7:18 utc | 41
Donald Trump, the supposed anti-interventionist 'Bring the Troops Home' president, is now deploying 14,000 more US troops to the Middle East.
Let's hope that Trump doesn't turn out to be another Woodrow "He Kept Us Out of War (for now)" Wilson, who eventually entered into a minor little misadventure called World War 1.
Posted by: ak74 | Dec 7 2019 7:25 utc | 42
Posted by: ian trafford walker | Dec 7 2019 7:18 utc | 40
Truth. Well said.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 7 2019 9:25 utc | 43
First Trump downplays Saudi Role in Florida Shoot because he wants Saudi Business
2nd I agree Saudi Arabia is the USA's most important ally. If it falls, it would be a huge blow to the American Empire (Petrodollar). <=I beg to differ with you, there is no American Empire, there may be a USA empire.. Americans are upset with the situation the USA has evolved into just the same as you are.
3rd the wonderful argument about the future of the nation state system, the most corrupt system the world has yet developed.. (some say it will disappear.. some say it will not). The nation state system divides 8 billion people into 208 politically controlled environmentally choreographed units. After you reread the comments most of which are included below.. please consider then my prognosis.. which is, that a second government is needed and will eventually develop (Wilson in his 14 points and League of Nation attempted a half hardheartedly to bring into being humanity as an element of nation state concern. Wilson's attempt failed because everyone, undermined him and because IMO Wilson did not understand what he was actually trying to do.
After you re read the posts. I will argue that the nation state system may actually expand, but a second form of government will emerge and that 2nd form of government will govern the governors. So we have the governor leading the nation state system, and we have the governed operating a government that keeps the governors in check. Basically each member of the governed mass of any nation state will be empowered, because he or she is human, to turn in so to speak(that is to charge in court) an out of line corrupt, negligent or tyrant member of the nation state. Once turned in[charged in the human rights courts and accepted for considered by the court, that nation state governor is immediately removed from his or her position until the matter can be heard by the human rights courts. If the removed governor is found guilty, he or she will be punished and be black listed to ever again serve in any government anywhere in the world.
The human rights government and its court system will be and actually probably can be the only truly global government, as the only thing common to everyone is their humanity. Top Down Nation States Governments that govern the masses within a class of people or territory are needed because the mix of the masses, the location and environment of the territory, the language, culture and knowledge base between nation states are generally different; but the governors of each nation state will be forced ( I predict) to operate within the universal rules established by mankind (the rights of man) and mankind will be forced to accept the rules of nation state governments. I call this the 2 government reciprocal model. Top down the local nation state will optimize for its masses the best it can; while bottom up the global mass of humanity will monitor the use and abuse of power allowed to anyone who is a member of, or who is acting as, a member of a nation state government.
In other words, those nation states that want to use capitalism are free to do so, those governments that want to engage socialism are free to do so, those who want a democracy or a kingdom or whatever are free to do, but none of the governors in any of those forms of government are free to use their position or their power to violate or infringe on a human right.
read on.. the comment from above follow.
--
Vk @ 12 started it off with ==>
Capitalism is not a national system, but a global system: the nation-State only exists insofar as it is a subdivision of the capitalist order; not the opposite. There is no "American capitalism", "European capitalism", "African capitalism" or "Japanese capitalism": there's only one capitalist architecture that divides its composition (quantitatively and qualitatively) across the entire globe.
Secondly, capitalism, as a social system, needs to reproduce itself. Capitalism does this with valorisation, i.e. the accumulation of surplus value, which comes from the conversion of human labor into abstract labor (value). This whole mass of value is then separated into two parts:
the first -- simply called "capital" (C) -- is used to reproduce the entire already existing mass of capital (i.e. reproduce the entire society as it already is);
the second is the profits, i.e. the excess value that goes beyond the mere maintenance of the existing state of the society. That means the industrialized nations will always absorb more value than the non-industrialized nations, since they have larger concentrations of capital (i.e. a higher organic composition of capital).
Thirdly, commodity exporters will always have to burn their reserves eventually because their exports are inelastic, i.e. demand doesn't grow as supply grows after an absolute point. As b highlighted in his post, the Saudis had to lower oil production in order to raise its prices -- but they sold less, as they had to lower production. They only did it to speculate in the stock markets -- which is fictitious capital.
The only Third World country which managed to get out of this trap was China. China managed to do that for the simple reason it is not a capitalist country, but a socialist one. <==by: vk @ 12
---
Nemesiscalling @16 responds
Finally, vk, you write something that I agree with.
Capitalism is a globalist system, but you are kidding yourself if you think socialism as envisioned by Marx is not equally a globalist system.
World socialism in its Hegelian dialectic, seeks the supranational supremacy of the worker-class with no international boundaries. It also seeks the destruction of the nation.
Thus, the only non-globalist and tenable system is one that begins with a nationalist paradigm. You can have a socialist-tempered nation or a capitalist-tempered one. In the end, the daylight between the two is miniscule enough and yet people will die swearing against the other. Go figure. by: Nemesiscalling 16
--
VK @ 28 responds ==>
Posted by: Nemesiscalling @ 16
You're just reflecting the dominant thinking of your time.
It's true that the dominant ideology of the 20th Century was nationalism. But just because nationalism is still the dominant ideology in our times, it doesn't mean it will be so forever.
Make no mistake: the nation-State will disappear. The future of humanity is unified in the whole Earth. If space colonisation happens, then the people of the time will have another problem in their hands -- but that's not for us to contemplate, not the problem of our times. by: vk @ 28
--
Nemesiscalling @29 responds ==>
@28 vk <==What you are saying is quite frightening.
..even if humanity were to assemble and build another Tower of Babel, the Lord will promptly tear it asunder.
Those with good sense always question centralized rule by technocrats. Whether good intentions or not, it always leads to evil. The nation state is the only thing which keeps alive our essential human difference.
by: Nemesiscalling @ 29
--
Ian2 @ 32 responds ==>
vk @ 28: Make no mistake: the nation-State will disappear.
No. The concept of the nation-state will never disappear. The only change would be the border. So, in the unified planet example, the border would be at least the exosphere or at most the heliosphere if Earth.Gov gets greedy. Extra-terrestrial colonies could get messy if the heliosphere border isn't recognized. by: Ian2 @ 32
AS I SEE IT..
The problem is we have two vested interest and only one of the vested interest trying to resolve the problem important to the two vested interest. One is the interest of the nation state that governs.. the other is the interest of the humanity the nation states is supposed to governed. These are two vastly different, highly opposed interest.
But there is a universal truth "humanity is global and nation state is local" that must be considered.
So each locality needs its own nation state to optimize its community goods and services, but it can only do so when it operates within the rights that are inalienable to the human interests. These are the right to life, liberty, justice, education, medical services, fairness and equality in a competitive way. No government hasthe right to take a human life, or lock up a human for any crime or impose on any human any debt or other obligation which is not equally imposed on all other humans at the same time.
Over time much law will be developed by the human rights courts. The Governors govern the nation state, and the humans govern the governors of their particular nation state. In this way the humans around the world are treated the same, completely independent of the activities of the nation state.
Posted by: snake | Dec 7 2019 10:18 utc | 44
More Saudi repair of relations:
A Syrian government official has visited Saudi Arabia to attend the Saudi Journalists Union meeting in Riyadh. The meeting was attended by Moussa ‘Abdel-Nour on behalf of the Minister of Education ‘Imad Muwafiq Al-‘Azab.This meeting comes just days after state-owned Al-Watan reported that Syria and Saudi Arabia were in talks about restoring relations.
@24 Yes this is what I meant.
@34 Remember the Maine? All other carriers are at a safe distance from Iran how fathomable is it to use this one as reason to go to war? The carrier is literally within sight of Iranian gas fields. And sure the US and global economy will/would crash but isn't that bound to happen soon anyhow?
@ Saudi's sudden moves to appease Houthis, Qatar and Syria. Isn't it strange that these moves happen at the exact same time that the US is making another big push for peace efforts in Afghanistan? Surely this is no coincidence, since both sides up until only months ago seemed not too interested to do anything about it. To me this is actually another sign that speaks for an escalation with Iran. You want to keep your back free before taking on the big one.
Also it has been reported that Iran and the US exchanged two prisoners , why now if Trump isn't making the slightest concessions elsewhere with Iran? None!
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 7 2019 14:34 utc | 47
Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, of the Saudi type Muslims Trump is loving and invites to America's naval flight schools, wrote a manifesto stating the U.S. is a "Nation of Evil" and inhumanity. Okay. And how is Saudi Arabia not a Nation of Evil and inhumanity when it condemns scores of shiite Muslims to beheadings yearly purely for political/religious reasons and dismembers an Anerican journalist?
Oh I get it, Trump loves the Wahabbi, Salafi type; the most radical, violent and inhumane type of Muslim, the predominant type of Muslim in Saudi Arabia cause Trump is in love with Saudi Arabia claiming Saudis love Americans when ironically, 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
And Trump sent tens of thousands of soldiers to this oh so loving country Saudi Arabia to prepare for war with Iran that was abididing by the JCPOA nuclear deal signed with the previous administration. Trump is fulfilling the Zionist agenda cozying up with Saudis to get Iran. Trump loves it cause Saudi Arabia is also good for Trump business; Iran, not so much. Besides, Trump is a Zionist. Thousands of Saudis are trained in U.S. flight schools to operate the record numbet of U.S. military jets Trump gave them to prolong the U.S. proxy war in Yemen killing many civilians.
HIDEOUS TRUMP LOGIC AT WORK as usual.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 7 2019 15:07 utc | 48
@7 Circe | (CONCERNIN KARMA & DHARMA:)
. You write (my majusculs):
" How timely your article is! Trump helped and protected that butcher MBS and NOW KARMA RETURNED to bite him in the ass. A Saudi national training in Florida shot up a U.S. naval base in Pensacola Florida killing 3 and wounding countless other service members. "
My remark:
. This is not a case of Karma, but of Dharma. C.f. the fifties beatnik novel entitled "The Dharma Bums". Those tendencies within the many beatnik factions were "Rebels Without a Cause" -- exactly the kind of idiot protestere reactionaries take great pleasure in cultivating with seemingly contrary news and scandal stories.
Posted by: Ou Si (區司) | Dec 7 2019 15:07 utc | 49
@47 Alexander P
It makes sense the U.S. would want their prisoners out if there's going to be military aggression. I believed Trump would launch an attack on Iran in his second term when he has less to lose, but now I suspect he might use this to shut down impeachment. He's been sending troops to Saudi Arabia non-stop. It sure appears like he's preparing for an attack on Iran.
Posted by: Circe | Dec 7 2019 15:21 utc | 50
Saudi Arabia is known for its extreme cruelty against the Houthis. Why didn't they tighten the blockade and destroy even more economic infrastructure to compel the Houthis to give up? What stopped them?
Posted by: Wishywashy | Dec 7 2019 15:22 utc | 51
Last week I noticed that a news report on the Oman negotiations referred to Khalid bin Salman as "KbS". One would not use the three-letter acronym ("JFK", "LBJ") unless he was seen as a potential challenger to MbS.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 6 2019 20:08 utc | 13
As I suggested at the time of the Khashoggi case, after KbS disappeared from DC, it would have made a lot of sense at that time to quietly replace MbS by KbS. Perhaps a deal was made between DC and Riyadh, and maybe that is why the issue disappeared. Part of the deal would be lack of announcements and allowing MbS to continue to pretend to be in power, for face-saving reasons.
James mentions the CIA claim that KbS allegedly took the order to disappear Khashoggi, but anything the CIA says is virtually guaranteed to be a lie, unless the truth just happens to be convenient, i.e. zero informational value. In any case, it makes no difference - CIA don't care in the slightest who killed Khashoggi, they only care whether they can get someone in who is under their control (they failed on that one, so far at least, but they are still working on alternatives, i.e. regime change, under London's leadership).
Posted by: BM | Dec 7 2019 15:42 utc | 52
The Abraham Lincoln just finished up a major billion dollar mid-life overhaul and refueling operation in 2017. From an operational perspective that makes the ship better than new. I rather doubt it was moved into the Persian Gulf just to be sunk in a false flag. Loss of the Abraham Lincoln would seriously impact the USA's force projection abilities and the financial cost would be staggering. Furthermore, the US Navy is already overextended. This is a problem not just with ships but with personnel. Losing one carrier battle group would cripple the navy long term.
There are cheaper ways to start a war.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 7 2019 15:57 utc | 53
About Carriers being at a "safe distance"... Recall that the Navies of Russia, China, and Iran are now coordinated and about to begin combined fleet exercises in the Indian Ocean. Since the Iranian mass-produced sub-launched and surface launched, have a range > 1000 km, well, it's obvious. So do the Chinese and Russians have long range weapons. The Indian Ocean exercises position those combined fleets for the obliteration of Diego Garcia - a critical Imperial base...
Carriers are useful for attack. Other than that they are targets - even in Portsmouth Navy Yard.
As to the appeal to emotion encapsulated within "nuclear capable" - that's silly. Even a motorcycle or a Cessna can transport a modern nuke (of something like 80-120 kg) Usage of the phrase "NC" is an appeal to emotion, an attempt to scare people. There are, in missile engineering, yes, important matters of moment and stress when matching a N-bomb to the delivery machine. Sometimes no match, as with a big bomb on a small rocket. Adapting a payload to a rocket can involve ballasting or lightening here and there, and that's not always possible, but every agency has "NC" machines, most have such rockets that can be adapted under emergency circumstances. Not, mind you, by ignorant people - it takes mathematics and tools.
Empire has no choice about making war. Logic is not a strategic factor, but is a tactical factor. Empire must reduce Iran to irrelevancy. It must attack, and prevail. Therefore it will try. Sure as sunrise. The tactics and timing and outcome remain to entertain us all.
Posted by: Walter | Dec 7 2019 16:04 utc | 54
Thank you b; I join those who rejoice in the prospect of a peaceful outcome for Yemen coming at the end of a year of struggle that has harmed so many citizens there. May the next year see the subsidence of violations of the peace as more and more small and large countries take advantage of the coming prosperity in the region. It will only be accomplished if accompanied by peace. Let 2020 be a year of restoration and rebuilding everywhere, that we may face climate change with courage and hope for a better future for all our young people.
Posted by: juliania | Dec 7 2019 16:27 utc | 55
@William, thank you for your feedback. I truly hope you are right, while I generally agree with your logic we have to both admit that something 'easier' and 'cheaper' could have been done than conduct 9/11 to start a war with Iraq/Afghanistan, yet they went for that option anyhow.
All I'm saying is that people scheming and planning such events do not simply look at it from a tactical but mainly spiritual perspective, this we should never forget. Again I hope you are right, and the Lincoln will safely leave the Gulf in the coming weeks but I'm seeing a lot of signs that point towards an escalation soon.
@Walter I agree sadly, the question now is only how soon.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 7 2019 17:00 utc | 56
@52 bm.. of course your last paragraph is indeed correct... it is pure speculation on my part... they must be thinking of who is going to replace him..
Posted by: james | Dec 7 2019 17:15 utc | 57
@ Walter @ 54 ..no choice, must reduce Iran to irrelevancy
Alexander P @ 56 Walter the question now is only how soon.
no choice, must reduce Iran to irrelevancy <==(just as the Bankers and their investors and corporate reflectors in Switzerland in 1897 decided and planned it needed to do two things.. reduce Germany to irrelevancy and to take possession of the oil rich lands then controlled by the Ottomans..) It took two generations of Economic Zionism to bring that "must reduce Germany to irrelevancy" into reality and one more generation to take possession of the oil and gas in the vast reach of the old Ottoman Empire. Millions dead, millions more slated to die, billions homeless, nation states erupting/disrupting as the manipulation of peace accords and wars take their effects, yet no one but a few profited from it all. What kind of BS is that? Are people willing to allow the Economic Zionist another round or two to make a profit by bumping humanity again and again and again? Are people willing to give up family, qualify of life, liberty and freedom, ignore rational security, risk complete annihilation, etc. so a few, who remain aloft of it all, can make, yet another buck or two. The world is already eight months pregnant.
I can't believe humanity would be so stupid as to allow another Cycle of Economic Zionism to destroy over half its population and nearly all of its qualify of life granting infra structure, again?
Is Iran so stupid that it does not know this is about to happen? I don't think so! Wilhelm, III never figured out, all his attempts to negotiate failed, because he, and everything Germany did, were in bowl controlled by the hidden secret treaties between the vicious leaders who controlled the nation states that were parties to economic zionism. Just to make clear my meaning, nothing About Economic Zionism has to with the race or religion of the Jews, its about economics, profits and only a few are allowed to be in control..
The economic zionist controlled Wilhelm's every move, they blocked every advantage and encouraged ever disadvantage. I think Iran has more resources available than did Germany, is developing internally the German advanced technical know how and is light years more aware about their predicament than Germany was. ..it can eliminate its border enemies in a few minutes. I predict the victim will survive this time around.. not because Iran is that powerful, but because like Syria and Yemen, its population is that determined to support the survival of its state, its that determined to keep its way of life, and its that determined to defend its right to exist to the last man, woman and child, even the dogs and cats in Iran will likely support the survival effort.
Posted by: snake | Dec 7 2019 17:21 utc | 58
I read that snake is back with his ZDS (Zionist Derangement Syndrome) again
I think you should be banned from MoA for such racism.
You never have answered my repeated challenge to you to put up or shut up. Either prove that those that own global private finance are jewish/zionists or shove your ZDS up your ass. I am way past tired of reading your poppycock BS here
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 17:37 utc | 60
Alexander P @56 claimed: "...we have to both admit that something 'easier' and 'cheaper' could have been done than conduct 9/11 to start a war with Iraq/Afghanistan..."
We don't agree on that. 9/11 served very many purposes beyond just starting a war. The World Trade Center was facing $billions in asbestos remediation costs and New York City had refused permits for demolition. The Jewish lightning supposed terrorists attacks not only saved a Zionist landlord tons of cash but made him a hefty profit. Forensic accountants investigating DoD finances were eliminated. Enron evidence was destroyed. The Patriot Act was passed. The flagging popularity of the CIA's sock puppet PotUS was restored. The CIA's control over the "Operation Mockingbird" mass media was fully stress-tested so weak links could be addressed.
No expensive military hardware was lost in 9/11. Central players in the farce didn't even take a short-term haircut in the subsequent stock market dip as they had arranged put options (note how Google doesn't return any guess completions when you type "9/11 put opt" in their search parameter textbox despite there being many thousands of articles, blog posts, and videos discussing the issue... their Alphabet agency parent company doesn't like people searching about that).
If the empire is willing to put its own nuts in a vice in order to sell a war then we are terrifyingly close to full-on Apocalypse. If they are willing to sacrifice a carrier battle group (which would take well over a decade to replace, closer to two) just to mess up Iran then they are truly mindless with desperation. If this is the case then it is not war with Iran that we need to worry about. That would be small potatoes compared with the main act.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 7 2019 17:47 utc | 61
@ 44 snake
I would once again argue that because of this globalist epoch advancing towards an untenable Hegelian synthesis, the absolute mind of the material dialectic that vk proposes, humanity has never been as close to extinction in the suicidal sense. Far from vk's theory that we are still in the heyday of the nationalist paradigm, we in fact left that epoch a long time ago.
The great world wars were nothing more than two globalist factions fighting each other. The same with the cold war.
I agree that the nation state is now in the process of reclaiming its natural supremacy, as Marx's perversion of hegel's philosophy of mind has been outed and will be removed in the teleological march of history towards mind.
Is it no wonder that Heidegger, a Hegel disciple, took to Taoism in his later writings? It is there that the subject of "care" emerges always victorious, and it reaffirms not just Hegel and his correct philosophy, but eastern notions of the state and the relationship with the individual.
Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Dec 7 2019 17:50 utc | 62
@ snake. Yeah, maybe...but the way it looks is that an English - Anglo - association, a deep state, has curated zionism (since when 1890?), with lots of dedicated Ashkenazim giving enthusiastic help. And it looks now like the intelop "zionism" has, Golem-like, run amuck. Tail wagging the dog.
Either way, it's yet another Jewish civil war, one that's got it's patron by the Imperial balzz. And it's a tragic schism and terrible thing for several million Jews, who have serious doubts about "Israel".
No, I am not in the tribe. Anglican taught, Quaker bred. But any fool can see the parallels in behavior between today in "Israel" and the 1930's in... you tell me. Jews are mostly just as decent as anybody, they're hijacked into tragedy by the false ideology of zionism...
Posted by: Walter | Dec 7 2019 18:32 utc | 63
There are some good arguments made here for Armageddon being very close, and it would be a fool who would dismiss them out of hand. But if you subscribe to the theory that Washington’s main aim is to regulate the price of oil, as I do, you could also believe that this is more ingenious sabre rattling. America is protecting its frackers, which also explains its attempts to take Iranian, Venezuelan and Libyan oil off the market. Imagine what might happen to the price of oil if those countries were fully free to export.
The sabre has been rattled so often, and for so long, that getting the attention of the world gets harder and harder - new ways have to be constantly contrived to convince the world that THIS TIME THE YANKS REALLY MEAN BUSINESS.
But the Lincoln would not be the only sacrifice in a war - Tel Aviv has a big bull’s eye painted all over it. That means a lot of friends and more importantly relatives of the US oligarchs would be blown to smithereens. That’s why I don’t think it will happen. It is a balancing act and most of the players - not all - are relatively rational.
Posted by: Montreal | Dec 7 2019 18:39 utc | 64
Now that King Abdullah the second has recognised the rightful government of Syria in the face of the behemoth of the Israeli government, which does take quite a lot of courage, isn't it time that there are more voices calling for the restoration of the guardianship of the two holy places (Makkah and Medina) to its rightful family, the Husseini's and withdrawn from the usurper Saudi's ?
Posted by: aniteleya | Dec 7 2019 18:43 utc | 65
re RJPJR | Dec 7 2019 1:46 utc | 33
...to acquire for the Kingdom the oil in the Empty Quarter ... still never surveyed...
Modern signal interpretation using electromagnet inputs from satellites, etc collection can discriminate mineral classifications below Earth's surface down to some hundreds of meters, and in some case surely more. Reliability is well within practical limits. Using penetrating EM frequencies, the return signals are meaningful and can be read reliability enough for automatic [programmable] readout.
In recent years, with coordinate explosions [any] at depth, even collection of trace amounts leaking to surface are also effectively collected and read.
Yes, there is a Mineral Survey Race.
Of course, this can be read as an opinion piece.
Posted by: chu teh | Dec 7 2019 18:58 utc | 66
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 17:37 utc | 60
How is being against a political racist organisation be racist?
You do have some interesting comments sometimes but your adl like faux rage against antizionism makes you sound retarded.
i guess you are against bds and a free unoccupied Palestine as well, your lack of knowledge and confusioun about a political racist sect and a people actually tells me ALL i need to know about you as a human.
You are a murcanized/murcan zionist deep in your soul, and that means you are a part of the problem NOT the solution.
Mostly lurking
Per/Norway
Posted by: Per/Norway | Dec 7 2019 19:53 utc | 67
Still not buying an imminent attack on Iran -- they've been preparing for four decades and are bristling with hundreds of missiles for every good target within thousands of km (in addition to aircraft carriers, Ras Tanura and Dimona come immediately to mind), and, crucially, the US military brass wants no part of it. These sabres have been rattled many times yet these facts remain. The empire prefers targets that can't fight back at all, let alone ones capable of a devastating counter-strike.
Posted by: AshenLight | Dec 7 2019 19:58 utc | 68
@Alexander P #10
"Sacrificing" the Abraham Lincoln to a false flag attack would simultaneously destroy the US Navy's reputation - both internally and internationally.
I don't see that as credible in any way.
The Maine was a useless ship: too slow to raid commerce and too delicate to fight against main battle line ships.
Tonkin involved a destroyer.
The notion that the US population has any appetite for a foreign war against a credible opponent is utterly unsupported. It isn't clear to me even the Lincoln sinking would do the trick.
Then there's Pearl Harbor: are the Iranians stupid enough to actually attack, without abundant and internationally recognized provocation? I don't see it.
Posted by: c1ue | Dec 7 2019 19:59 utc | 69
@63 Walter
If the empire is willing to put its own nuts in a vice in order to sell a war then we are terrifyingly close to full-on Apocalypse. If they are willing to sacrifice a carrier battle group (which would take well over a decade to replace, closer to two) just to mess up Iran then they are truly mindless with desperation. If this is the case then it is not war with Iran that we need to worry about. That would be small potatoes compared with the main act.
I do agree with you on this and the implications (if it were to happen) would be much more far-reaching than what would initially meet the eye of the masses. But then again I have also been of the conviction that we are at the end of this 'world order', which is what the likes of Kissinger keep repeating to us at each of their high-level public appearances. The question is how they will transition us to the next stage and if the U.S. will still play any meaningful role in it. I know this sounds apocalyptic as you put it, but change is the only constant in this world. I cannot rule something out in geopolitics just because it seems outlandish.
Without wishing to go too off-topic here, I personally believe in the age of space warfare and hypersonic weapons systems carriers have lost a lot of their usefulness to the dying empire and there aren't that many small countries left to use them for as a bullying tool. (Neither China nor Russia or North Korea are much impressed by them). Yet, these are the most direct threats to the US global hegemony. Suffice to say that losing a carrier would not be outside the realm of the possible. Remarks such as these made earlier this year only help facilitate a false flag.
@64 Montreal Yes, I do admit that about Tel Aviv, this would be a massive blow, but then it was Kissinger who apparently said in 2012 that Israel would cease to exist in 10 years. Whether true or not, we should remember that they have sacrificed many Jews some 80 years ago to achieve their goals.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 7 2019 20:05 utc | 70
Looking behind the curtain, even if the backstage is murky and uneven - go for it.
May 20, 2017.
Trump makes his first foreign visit -> to KSA. He stresses as his *only* demand, coupled w. yuuge promised support: ‘Terrorism must stop’ - link (one ex.)
Oct 1, 2017.
Las Vegas shooting. - imho - Paddock was not a lone nut, this was a terrorist attack. ISIS claimed it, twice: afaik they have never falsely claimed. The chaos in LV (several shooters, lockdown of the hotels, many mysteries, contradictions, etc.) can be explained via such a scenario. My interpretation of course, no evidence in a short post etc. (The terrorists were all shot.) Curiously, it was also an officially accepted one, 1.
The attack was covered up and falsely attributed to protect LV (the locals agreed, desperate) Trump, and KSA.
Oct. 24. 2017.
“We are returning to what we were before, a country of Moderate Islam.. that is open to all religions in the world ..” - bin Salman. link bbc as ex
Nov 4, 2017.
Saudi Royals are arrested, imprisoned (in luxury or not, some tortured, it is said..) and shaken down for billions. Officially, a fight against corruption. Unofficially, it is clearly an in-fight at the top, a desperado struggle between two sides. How were those factions defined? The lame “don’t like MBS” doesn’t do. Could it be that some still supported Wahhabi terrorism? But this was no longer permitted…re. relations to the USA? The rulers in KSA were obliged to halt their support of ‘terrorism’ and did put an end to it, as their survival (yes literally, US support..) was at stake?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41747476
1. Michael Smith, in a long article in Foreign Affairs, titled: ‘Was ISIS responsible for the Las Vegas attack?’ published Oct. 9, 2017, stresses this point, reviews various theories, explanations. He doubts that Paddock had any affiliations with ISIS / other terrorist group, though new information is always possible, he writes.
The point is hammered in again in 2018:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/03/its-time-for-saudi-arabia-to-stop-exporting-extremism/
Posted by: Noirette | Dec 7 2019 20:06 utc | 71
@chu teh #66
Do you have a link?
Perhaps you mean molecular resonance?
Even then, the sheer scale makes me wonder just how effective such scanning would be. I can see it being used to validate promising areas identified through other means (geological, optical), but it seems highly unlikely it could be used for large scale scans. Among other things, you have to kick off the resonance somehow.
Posted by: c1ue | Dec 7 2019 20:09 utc | 72
The article emphasizes how MBS caused problems but because MBS is a clown it is easy to underestimates the problems MBS was trying to solve. The financial problems did not start with MBS.
Then, to what extent Iran has assisted the Houthi missile capability over the last 5 years is not clear to me but B. suggests here that without Iran there would not be much of a missile capability. That sounds like a guess and an overstatement. It is plausible that Iran has assisted the Houthis in the last year. Scott Ritter estimated that they provided the navigation modules for the cruise missiles in the successful recent attacks. There are now reports about successful surface to air missiles. That sounds like something the Iranians would helped with. Could it be they provided the complete missiles? But have there been reports about successful air defense before last month? Nothing significant that I know. You'd think the Houthis would ahve appreciated it earlier as well. It is easy to overestimate the amount of assistance Iran is providing now. People make a big deal out of 'establishing the principle' but before last year I don't know if it is worth mentioning.
Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Dec 7 2019 20:12 utc | 73
I am glad that most readers disagree with the sense of dread I've been feeling, highlighted in my earlier comments. One of the reasons I posted was also to feel the temperature because I value the expertise of this forum/blog and wished to see if I was onto something.
Let us hope and pray that sanity will prevail and all these recent news are just the usual noise in the neo-con warmonger forest. And if not, at the bare minimum we'll soon be having some very vivid debates in here.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 7 2019 20:12 utc | 74
I wonder how long MbS will remain as Crown Prince. His failures thus far should be enough to bar him from the throne. The "Royal" family must feel rather embarrassed to put up their crown jewels for public offering. Everybody knows that it's nothing more than begging the World for more money to pay for their stupidity.
The number of US troops sent thus far isn't enough to start a war against Iran. I'm leaning towards securing The Kingdom from collapse, or at the very least, prop up MbS. There has to be someone in the Royal family itching for payback after the Ritz-Carlton "conference". I'm expecting major changes within the family.
As for the restoration of diplomatic ties, I believe it's more to do with Western nations attempting to retain their foothold into the region. Riyadh must had the riot act read to them. No one wants further destabilization of the region with the Worlds economy hanging on by a thread. They must see that Iran is getting stronger with every ill conceived plan Riyadh creates. Otherwise, Iran will get all the marbles; a red line for everyone.
BTW, the report from Dr Paul about the deployment of 14K troops has been denied by Trump via Twitter. A feint? Time will tell.
Posted by: Ian2 | Dec 7 2019 20:30 utc | 75
In the run-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion it was obvious the decision to invade had been made. There were "unprecedented" anti-war protests well before the main attacks started. None of those folks doubted there would be a renewed war on Iraq.
Today, it is not at all clear to me that Uncle Sam will openly attack Iran. Perhaps the DC Dunces are still fighting among themselves about their Iran policy. The best I have is platitudes like
"Anything can happen"
"The Future will not be an extension of the Present"
>Let us hope and pray that sanity will prevail
>Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 7 2019 20:12 utc | 74
Indeed. When large trees fall, they always knock down others on the way down.
Posted by: Trailer Trash | Dec 7 2019 20:47 utc | 76
Circe #7
Here is a report about the Pesacola Naval Air Station shooter and his underlying motive: Much the same as Osama bin Laden said it. Cites storyful as source.
Caution: rabid pro trump media site :))
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 7 2019 21:01 utc | 77
The article emphasizes how MBS caused problems but because MBS is a clown it is easy to underestimates the problems MBS was trying to solve. The financial problems did not start with MBS. tuyzenfloot @ 73.
MBS is a ‘clown’, aka. an incompetent upstart. Yet, he merely represents a last ditch attempt at Hopi-Changi and Reform. KSA is in a terrible position, survives basically only thru oil revenues, US-other support. Internally strife and oppo is high (easily repressed for now..), poverty and pain in the slums etc. is thru the roof, etc. Attacking an outside enemy is so conventional it is painful. (Yemen.)
MBS’ Saudi Vision 2030, to diversify the economy, and the promises to ‘modernize’ and so on are an updated, sketchily brushed-up version of older plans. None of the plans have ever changed anything, they are cosmetic and serve foreign opportunists (long story: ex. to offer money to foreignors who do ‘biz’ in the country, like in education, maybe some finance, who then ‘support’ KSA, bribery really..)
The top-down org. of KSA Royals > minor Royals > Biz ppl > Civil servants in servitude > Plebs > foreign slaves cannot be altered even superficially as that would lead to revolution and/or collapse. To make is very short.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Vision_2030
Posted by: Noirette | Dec 7 2019 21:27 utc | 78
@78 Noirette so Yemen was intended as little more than a diversion? I think the war on Yemen was a resource grab after a failure to get access through Hadi.
I would agree that KSA is a trickle down economy. Potentially it is quite stable, like the role of the Pentagon in US government expenditure.
Until the money dries up.
Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Dec 7 2019 22:08 utc | 79
@69 "Then there's Pearl Harbor: are the Iranians stupid enough to actually attack, without abundant and internationally recognized provocation? I don't see it."
I think a "false flag" operation would start with something relatively minor, maybe the USA having a manned spy plane stray into Iranian territory and getting it (purposefully) shot down. Trump would be forced to retaliate due to the loss of life. The retaliation would be labeled as "proportional", taking out some radar and anti-aircraft units causing under 100 Iranian casualties. But, this is done knowing that Iran will respond to any attack on it with significant force...the Lincoln gets blasted.
Personally, I do believe that would be enough to rally Americans around the flag to go to war. Is war with Iran logical? Absolutely not! But the groups pushing for war are a mixed bag of nuts. You have the self-deluded slippery neocon/Zionists, the hell bent on Armageddon evangelicals, and the heads-up-their-asses-ignorant-of military-reality neoliberals.
Posted by: Haassaan | Dec 7 2019 22:08 utc | 80
@ Posted by: Per/Norway | Dec 7 2019 19:53 utc | 67 who wrote that they are mostly lurking but wrot of me anyway
"
You do have some interesting comments sometimes but your adl like faux rage against antizionism makes you sound retarded.
i guess you are against bds and a free unoccupied Palestine as well, your lack of knowledge and confusioun about a political racist sect and a people actually tells me ALL i need to know about you as a human.
"
You should read more of my comments over time before making such an ignorant comment yourself, IMO
I have repeatedly written about support of BDS and continue to call out Occupied Palestine for such.
I happen to abhor racism of all forms and commenter snake continues to flaunt his ZDS economic racism schtick here, has never answered repeated attempts for support of such claim and I am tired of reading it here.
You do seem to be making your bias/racism clear for all MoA barflies to see.
Have a nice life.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 22:25 utc | 81
Below is a link from ZH tht may be a bit OT but in line with other commenter's postings
Israel Conducted Nuclear Missile Test "Aimed At Iran": FM Zarif
The take away quote from Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif
"
Israel today tested a nuke-missile, aimed at Iran.
E3 & US never complain about the only nuclear arsenal in West Asia—armed with missiles actually DESIGNED to be capable of carrying nukes—but has fits of apoplexy over our conventional & defensive ones.
"
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 22:43 utc | 82
@ Alex P > "If the empire is willing to put its own nuts in a..." Walter did not say that. But he might agree...
Posted by: Walter | Dec 8 2019 0:25 utc | 83
@ generally to the assumptions. For example, maybe the Lincoln battle group will be attacked and many murdered and many ships sunk. But people assume that the story they would then hear touted to the heavens, that "Iran did it". would be true.
That's a false assumption.
There are many reasons for several capable actors to (a) sink the ships, and (b) to lie about it.
Operation "Northwoods" and the Maine, and 911 do come to mind...
Posted by: Walter | Dec 8 2019 0:31 utc | 84
I read that snake is back with his ZDS (Zionist Derangement Syndrome) again
I think you should be banned from MoA for such racism.
You never have answered my repeated challenge to you to put up or shut up. Either prove that those that own global private finance are jewish/zionists or shove your ZDS up your ass. I am way past tired of reading your poppycock BS here
Posted by: psychohistorian @ 60 I guess you did not read what i wrote the first time you raised your rant.. but in side of the comment I wrote today, @ 44 I stated and you must have missed it "Just to make clear my meaning, nothing About Economic Zionism has to with the race or religion of the Jews, its about economics, profits and only a few are allowed to be in control."
Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2019 1:06 utc | 85
psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 22:25 utc | 81
"racism" occurs when one sticks up for one's kith and kin and ways and prerogatives. It's a normal human moral response to outside attack. Self-defense response.
"bigotry" occurs when other people object to your "racism".
I have no brief for bigots who spout about other's "racism", do you?
But snake, consider that the naming you're using might be improved to lessen the racist accusations, the emotional irrationality, which obviously clouds the judgement of our learned comrades.
Posted by: Walter | Dec 8 2019 1:27 utc | 86
@ Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2019 1:06 utc | 85 who wrote
"
"Just to make clear my meaning, nothing About Economic Zionism has to with the race or religion of the Jews, its about economics, profits and only a few are allowed to be in control."
"
So you can choose to take words and say they don't mean what the rest of the world thinks they do?
What the hell are you smoking?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 8 2019 1:30 utc | 87
Sorry Walter, I meant William at 61. Should have checked more carefully. :)
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 8 2019 1:36 utc | 88
@ snake again,
Why are you not using
Economic fascism?
Economic concentration?
Economic cult?
I just don't buy your supposed, awe gee, that is not what I meant.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 8 2019 1:36 utc | 89
following up on b @46 - this is good news in my book:
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/prominent-syrian-official-makes-rare-visit-to-saudi-arabia/
Prominent Syrian official makes rare visit to Saudi Arabia
BEIRUT, LEBANON (11:45 A.M.) – The head of the Syrian Journalists Union, Moussa Abdel-Nour, participated in the Arab Journalists Union meeting in the Saudi capital of Riyadh this week, marking the first time in years that a Syrian government official has made a public visit.
....The Qassioun News Agency reported that “the invitation from the Saudi Journalists Union to its Syrian counterpart is tantamount to political flirting or attempting to open new channels and send indirect political messages, indicating other steps, including the reopening of the Saudi embassy in Damascus.”
A few days ago, the Syrian newspaper Al-Watan quoted an Arab diplomatic source in Damascus as confirming that a talk is developing about the return of diplomatic relations between Damascus and Riyadh.
Al-Watan said: “The opening of the Saudi embassy is not far away,” but the Saudi Foreign Ministry previously denied its intention to open its closed embassy.
This latest visit by the Syrian government officials comes just days after the UAE Ambassador to Syria hosted a celebration at the embassy to commemorate the independence of the Arab nation.
Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 8 2019 2:14 utc | 90
William Gruff @ 53
The Abraham Lincoln just finished up a major billion dollar mid-life overhaul and refueling operation in 2017...There are cheaper ways to start a war.
Not to mention having a cracked nuclear reactor sitting at the bottom of the shallow Persian Gulf. I do not think I have seen a study on the affects of a sunken nuclear powered ship reactor under the water after a naval engagement.
Fact Sheet on U.S. Nuclear Powered Warship (NPW) Safety paints a picture of a secure nuclear powered platform but I do not recall one being sunk in wartime operations.
Iran is a tough nut for them to crack. If the US went in it would be Vietnam tenfold with riots on the streets of the US as well. The costs and casualties would be enormous. It would peel the Empire up into little pieces and harden the resolve of their enemies.
That is what is frightening. Dropping some nukes would be cheap and easy solution in their minds. With Iran seeking nukes a nuke false flag could be possible where a nuke is used somewhere and blamed on Iran.
It just does not look good going forward with these maniacs in control.
Posted by: dltravers | Dec 8 2019 2:25 utc | 91
amerika copped a tiny taste of exactly how ordinary Saudis regard the imperial occupation of the ME. Not that many will hear of it & those who do, be able to comprehend the message.
The last tweet of the fellow who shot amerikan pilots plus a couple of the domestic oppressors for empire, sheriff's deputies, makes for interesting reading.
He says:
"O American people,I'm not against you just for being American, I don't hate you because your freedoms,
I hate you because every day you supporting funding and committing crimes not only against Muslims but also humanity.I'm against evil, and America as a whole has turned into a nation of evil. What I see from America is the supporting of the nation of Israel which is invasion of Muslim countrie, I see invasion of many countries by its troops, I see Guantanamo Bay. I see cruise missiles, cluster bombs and UAV.
Simply but powerfully put, I do not see how anyone could class this as a terrorist attack since no civilians were hurt, something which cannot be said about the many deaths every day perpetrated by amerika's military and its proxies.
One last thing, if Mohammed Alshamrani can draw a distinction between the evil wrought by the israeli state in occupied Palestine and other jews, why is it so difficult for some to understand that most jews aren't billionaires or party to some conspiracy, that it was xtian hypocrisy which enabled banks owned by jews to cop a slice of the action that whitefella greedheads have used to control the world's resources for a thousand years.
If xtians had actually been principled and not encouraged usury whilst condemning it, but banned it outright as Islamic communities did, it is certain the world wouldn't be in the mess it currently is. Sure a few wealthy jews own a slice of the resources being robbed but it is tiny, as I have said before, when we consider the totality of the world's primary resources owned & controlled by a couple of hundred whitefellas.
The entire 'hate the jews' meme is a construct dreamed up by greedy whitefellas to distract drongos from their own far larger and more powerful sources of wealth.
Playing the division game, blah blah is a four by two, woof woof is black, izzy is a muslim, doug is gay etc, etc is how the arseholes try to divide us to prevent that unity of purpose between us all. Cos that is the one thing the rich f++kers are really scared of.
Posted by: A User | Dec 8 2019 2:47 utc | 92
Walter #63
Jews are mostly just as decent as anybody, they're hijacked into tragedy by the false ideology of zionism...
Thank you Walter, I fully agree with that proposition and snake makes reference to it (sort of) but he has enraged psychohistorian #60 to the extent that he appeals to b to block him.
I do not agree with blocking snake in any way. Let us not play the febrile trick of conflating anti zionism with racism or dislike of jews. I strongly oppose zionist apartheid, zionist mendacity, and its expansion into the financial sector as it is a cancerous, warmongering madness. I strongly support the peacemakers of every race and every religion that would strive to build safe places for humanity.
I am not confused enough to believe that because zionist mendacity destabilises our world that every person subscribing to 'jewishness' is part of the problem or to be vilified.
I certainly don't need psychohistorian's blanket of pure thought to blind my sight or block my ears. My mind and my consciousness will decide what to see and what to believe without your shroud of purity.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 8 2019 2:59 utc | 93
@dltravers
Interesting point you are raising there, as I am not an expert would this be comparable to nuclear powered submarine accidents in the past? Or would this be unprecedented / unchartered territory?
The hard core Neo-Con US magazine National Interest released this article yesterday titled 'Iran's Submarines Have One Objective: Sink The U.S. Navy', if articles such as these are used for 'conditioning' readers this doesn't bode too well.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 8 2019 3:02 utc | 94
Alexander P @94
I am not an expert would this be comparable to nuclear powered submarine accidents in the past?
Neither am I and the point is has anyone seen a study of the environmental effects of Naval Nuclear reactors and nuclear missiles from sunken submarines? There are a number of them in the Atlantic.
Years ago, in the mid '90's I was listening to a shortwave broadcast from Europe on the issue and as soon as they started talking about the nuclear missiles on a sunken Soviet sub, I think it was the K-278 Komsomolets, the program was jammed. The S meter on my shortwave pegged out full scale. Never seen a pegged out S meter before or since. Being on the west coast I figured it was the good old US of A jamming the broadcast.
Posted by: dltravers | Dec 8 2019 5:01 utc | 95
dltravers #95
Not looking good for the food chain here.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 8 2019 5:58 utc | 96
I definitely agree with dltravers.
Logistically, Iran is off the table when it comes to conventional warfare.
OTOH, a nuclear strike is probably being floated but that too would lead to a much larger conflagration which would level Palestine, as well, and potentially usher in what we all dread the most.
IMO, nothing will come of this.
We were 3.5 years ago fearing the exact same thing on the precipice of an election year, wondering if Hillary would pick a fight with Ru or if the election itself would be forgoed using emergency wartime decree.
Here we are again.
True believers potentially at the helm is never a good thing.
Will this be the last tango with Iran? The neocon window is closing.
Posted by: nemesiscalling | Dec 8 2019 6:07 utc | 97
dltravers 91
"If the US went in it would be Vietnam tenfold with riots on the streets of the US as well."
Who do you think would riot in the streets?
79
They have always wanted Yemen because it has a huge touristic potential. They are ok with development but it's better when it does not affect their own cattle.
Posted by: Mina | Dec 8 2019 10:50 utc | 99
92 your last paragraph
Very true, the Xian zionists seem to have the upper hand in Brussel now.
In the latest weeks we have seen France, Germany and the Netherlands re-asserting their interdiction of BDS and holding to a new, revisionist definition of antisemitism which count any attempt to criticize zionism as part of it.
Isn't it insane to see political powers supporting messianic projects and ideologies in the 21st c. ?
What people say in Lebanon, Iraq and elsewere is that they had had enough of the use of religion in politics. When are we going to wake up?
Posted by: Mina | Dec 8 2019 10:57 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Israel tests nuclear capable ballistic missiles with a range of up to 2,000 km over Tel Aviv. IDF's 215th division drills for war. Hezbollah's armies are back at Israel's borders...
B I hate to break it to you but Yemen is a side-show. We're about to see a major event next week and I've been trying to tell this to people in this thread but getting little attention. The Saudi IPO was finnished just in time, the US Budget postponed until December 20 all for a reason. And the Jerusalem Post posting an article on how a war with Iran might begin, to condition and prepare people. We're this close now and the Abraham Lincoln is back in the Gulf from its port call in Bahrain, so let's please focus on the essential.
Posted by: Alexander P | Dec 6 2019 19:13 utc | 1