As The OPCW Is Accused Of False Reporting U.S. Propaganda Jumps To Its Help
An international organization published two false reports and got caught in the act. But as the false reports are in the U.S. interests a U.S. sponsored propaganda organization is send out to muddle the issue. As that effort comes under fire the New York Times jumps in to give the cover-up effort some extra help.
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) manufactured a pretext for war by suppressing its own scientists' research:
OPCW emails and documents were leaked and whistleblowers came forward to speak with journalists and international lawyers. Veteran journalist Jonathan Steele, who has spoken with the whistleblowers, wrote an excellent piece on the issues. In the Mail on Sunday columnist Peter Hitchens picked up the issue and moved it forward.
Under U.S. pressure the OPCW management modified or suppressed the findings of its own scientists to make it look as if the Syrian government had been responsible for the alleged chemical incident in April 2018 in Douma.
The public attention to the OPCW's fakery lead to the questioning of other assertions the OPCW had previously made. With the OPCW under fire someone had to come to its help.
To save the propaganda value of the OPCW reports the U.S. financed Bellingcat propaganda organization jumped in to save the OPCW's bacon. Bellingcat founder "suck my balls" Elliot Higgins claimed that the OPCW reports satisfied the concerns the OPCW scientist had voiced.
That assertion is now further propagated by a New York Times piece which, under the pretense of reporting about open source analysis, boosts Bellingcat and its defense of the OPCW:
The blogger Eliot Higgins made waves early in the decade by covering the war in Syria from a laptop in his apartment in Leicester, England, while caring for his infant daughter. In 2014, he founded Bellingcat, an open-source news outlet that has grown to include roughly a dozen staff members, with an office in The Hague. Mr. Higgins attributed his skill not to any special knowledge of international conflicts or digital data, but to the hours he had spent playing video games, which, he said, gave him the idea that any mystery can be cracked.
...
Bellingcat journalists have spread the word about their techniques in seminars attended by journalists and law-enforcement officials. Along with grants from groups like the Open Society Foundations, founded by George Soros, the seminars are a significant source of revenue for Bellingcat, a nonprofit organization.
It seems that the New York Times forgot to mention an important monetary source for Bellingcat. Here is a current screenshot of Bellingcat's About page:
bigger
Porticus, Adessium, Pax for Peace and the Postcode Lottery are all Dutch organizations. Then there is the notorious Soros organization the New York Times mentioned. But why did the NYT forgot to tell its readers that Bellingcat is financed by the National Endowment for Democracy which itself is to nearly 100% funded by the U.S. government?
Could that be because the NED, which spends U.S.government money on more than 1.600 U.S. government paid Non-Government Organizations, is a Trojan horse, a cover for the CIA?
Spurred by Watergate – the Church committee of the Senate, the Pike committee of the House, and the Rockefeller Commission, created by the president, were all busy investigating the CIA. Seemingly every other day there was a new headline about the discovery of some awful thing, even criminal conduct, the CIA had been mixed up in for years.
...
What was done was to shift many of these awful things to a new organization, with a nice sounding name – The National Endowment for Democracy. The idea was that the NED would do somewhat overtly what the CIA had been doing covertly for decades, and thus, hopefully, eliminate the stigma associated with CIA covert activities.
...
“We should not have to do this kind of work covertly,” said Carl Gershman in 1986, while he was president of the Endowment. “It would be terrible for democratic groups around the world to be seen as subsidized by the C.I.A. We saw that in the 60’s, and that’s why it has been discontinued. We have not had the capability of doing this, and that’s why the endowment was created.”And Allen Weinstein, who helped draft the legislation establishing NED, declared in 1991: “A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.”
In effect, the CIA has been laundering money through NED.
The fact that the NED is doing the CIA's work is likely the reason why the NYT puff piece about Bellingcat forgets to mention its payments and also why it jumps to Bellingcat's and the OPCW's help:
Some journalists and activists hostile to what they characterize as Bellingcat’s pro-Western narratives have criticized some of its coverage of the war in Syria.At issue is an April 7, 2018, attack on Douma, Syria. Bellingcat reported, based on an analysis of six open-source videos, that it was “highly likely” that Douma civilians had died because of chemical weapons. In March, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons reported that there were “reasonable grounds” to say that chemical weapons had been used in the attack.
Critics of Bellingcat have pointed to an email from an investigator with the organization, saying that it raised questions about the findings. WikiLeaks published the email on Nov. 23. In a response, Bellingcat defended its reporting, saying the final report on Douma from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons reflected the concerns of the investigator whose email was published by WikiLeaks.
By playing video games Elliot Higgins learned to identify chemical attacks in dubious video sequences published by terrorist affiliates. If true it is an admirable capability. Still his assertion that the OPCW report "reflected the concerns of the investigator" who criticized it is, as Caitlin Johnstone demonstrates, utterly false:
Bellingcat simply ignores this absolutely central aspect of the email, as well as the whistleblower’s point about the symptoms of victims not matching chlorine gas poisoning.
“In this case the confidence in the identity of chlorine or any choking agent is drawn into question precisely because of the inconsistency with the reported and observed symptoms,” the whistleblower writes in the email. “The inconsistency was not only noted by the [Fact Finding Mission] team but strongly noted by three toxicologists with expertise in exposure to [Chemical Weapons] agents.”
Bellingcat says nothing about these revelations in the email, and says nothing about the fact that the OPCW excluded them from both its Interim Report in July 2018 and its Final Report in March 2019, the latter of which actually asserted the exact opposite saying there was “reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon took place. This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine.”
Bellingcat completely ignores all of these points, ...
In its defense of the OPCW report Bellingcat wrote:
[A] comparison of the points raised in the letter against the final Douma report makes it amply clear that the OPCW not only addressed these points, but even changed the conclusion of an earlier report to reflect the concerns of said employee.
Mail on Sunday columnist Peter Hitchens did not concur with that paragraph:
Apart from the words ‘a’, and ‘the’, everything in the above paragraph is, to put it politely, mistaken. Bellingcat have been so anxious to trash the leak from the OPCW that they have (as many did when the attack was first released) rushed to judgment without waiting for the facts. More is known by the whistleblowers of the OPCW than has yet been released ...
Caitlin and Peter should play more video games. I have read in the NYT that they are the true path to learning and to the factual assessment of alleged chemical attacks.
On April 7 2018 terrorists of the Jaish al Islam group ruled in Douma. They killed 40 civilians. The bodies were shown in videos along with chlorine gas canisters to pretend that the Syrian government had killed those people. The OPCW's fact finding team analyzed the evidence and found that the canisters had not been dropped from the air but were manually placed. The symptoms the victims showed were inconsistent with a chlorine attack and chlorinated substances were only found in extremely low concentrations. There were absolutely no "reasonable grounds" to say that chemical weapons had been used in the attack.
But the OPCW management, under U.S. pressure and despite the protests by its own scientists, put out a report that said the opposite. As the manipulation came to light the U.S. funded Bellingcat made a perfunctory attempt to muddle the issue. Thus another propaganda organization, the New York Times, had to jump in to save Bellingcat and the false OPCW claims.
It is not going to help. There will soon be more evidence that the OPCW management published two false reports on Douma, and likely even more on other issues. There will be a public recognition that the OPCW has failed.
Posted by b on December 2, 2019 at 16:43 UTC | Permalink
It is "highly likely" that "responsible" outlets like Bellingcat will peddle "widely disproven conspiracy theories" to keep the cash coming from governments of the "free world" to preserve "democracy".
Posted by: worldblee | Dec 2 2019 17:18 utc | 2
The difference between Syria and Iraq is former has Russia.
The OPCW can't do shit, and the American people, deep down, know this.
Nothing like an S-400 to sober up the atlanticists. It really works wonders - contrary to those video games Bellingcat has been playing.
Evo Morales, take note: violence is the key to success against the West, not peace.
This is a great journalistic job!! The NYT and its readers (we should call... believers?) live in an alternate state of reality! This is horrible!! As horrible as what has been living Julian Assange (or Chelsea Manning) these last 8 years.
It is essential that mainstream "institutions" like the New York Times be exposed for what they are: CIA and US government propaganda outlets!!
Maybe some independent outlets should make a regular report, a regular monitoring, of the real "fake news" such mainstream "monuments" like the NYT go on publishing and dissiminating on a daily basis without the wider public's knowledge. That's what journalists like you are doing on a regular basis.
For what the NYT has become now (but in a recent Mint Press article, Alan Macleod illustrates how the lies/propaganda of the NYT span over so many decades, since the coup against Pinochet in Chile in 1973 in any case), the NYT can disappear,but people like you are essential for a real information of the public.
Thanks again. Keep up the good work!!
Posted by: Red Corvair | Dec 2 2019 17:53 utc | 4
I had no idea about Elliot "suck my balls" Higgins until going to your link b......I live a sheltered life....grin
Assuredly this man is an impeccable source for truth in our world. How could one think of challenging his findings...and of course he should be a regular source for the NYT...../snark
If this soap opera was not affecting so many lives, it would be fun to watch
Keep up the good work b.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2019 18:31 utc | 5
The thing is, at this point, every single US-based, or even US-linked, NGO should be reasonably suspected of being a front for US psy-ops, propaganda, disinformation or just downright spy and special ops. A truly independent nation would outlaw the lot of them. Basic principle of self-preservation.
Vk - 2: "Evo Morales, take note: violence is the key to success against the West, not peace."
Well, it's no wonder there are people gunned down in the streets of Iran and Iraq, considering the very recent precedents. China is walking a tight path right now in Hong Kong - but then, it's just HK, a nearly irrelevant city on the fringe of the country, not big mayhem going on across several of the core cities.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Dec 2 2019 18:44 utc | 7
Independent journalist Graham William Phillips has been all over exposing that wretched clown, Elliot Higgins, and his silly Bellingcat organization. There are several good videos by Phillips on the subject on You Tube. Here is just one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLfNr4JjeI&feature=share
Posted by: Dr. William Fusfield | Dec 2 2019 18:48 utc | 8
When the clowns at Bellingcat write something you can be 100% sure the opposite is true.
Bellingcat's job is to provide baseless nonsense which can be parroted by useful idiots at various propaganda outlets.
Really enjoy opinions presented on MOA.
On further review prove to be quite relevant and informative.
Posted by: Sbin | Dec 2 2019 19:08 utc | 9
Thanks b.
Dutch law enforcement and Bellingcat are intricately linked.
When the MH17 narrative collapses under it's own lies, the impact on Dutch society will be profound.
Political show trials, doctored evidence, the willful killing of almost 300 people for political and financial gain, the involvement of Dutch politicians and intelligence agencies, law enforcement doing political hit jobs instead of fact finding, the public prosecutor that should be called the political prosecutor. The list goes on and on. The Van Traa commission pales in comparison.
How should a petty criminal or a big druglord go to jail in the Netherlands when legal proceedings are on the level of Nazi Germany? Even Roland Freisler did a better job.
Mutual assistance in legal matters is no longer possible when your reputation is down the drain.
MH17 was no accident. The Ukrainian army shot down MH17. Putting the blame on Russia was a political decision in The Hague.
It is quite easy to ask the right questions about MH17 based on open source information. Virtually all Dutch journalists are silent. A gag order?
You can fool some of the people some of the time. You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
To include the perpetrator in the criminal investigation team is a travesty of justice. Even a low IQ person understands that they never had the intention to get this case in an independent court.
The Brenninkmeijer and Van Vliet families will find new friends in high places with their funding of various "investigative journalists".
These are people who value their privacy, maybe they should answer some questions of real journalists.
Transparency International, OCCRP, ICIJ, Bellingcat, they all work hand in glove with the same donors to further the same agenda.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 2 2019 20:14 utc | 10
@ Red Corvair | Dec 2 2019 17:53 utc | 3
“. . .in a recent Mint Press article, Alan Macleod illustrates how the lies/propaganda of the NYT span over so many decades, since the coup against Pinochet in Chile in 1973 . . .”
It goes a lot farther back than that, in my experience. In 1966, as a newspaper reporter in Manhattan, I attended a press conference called by Allen Ginsberg in his East Village apartment. A NYT reporter was also present.
When our two resultant articles came out, there was no similarity whatsoever between them. Nothing in the Times article was in my notes, or in my memory of what was said at the conference, and nothing that was in my article appeared in the Times article. It was as if we had attended two completely different press conferences.
I was certain then, and I am just a certain today, that my notes, my recollections of what was said, and my article were accurate, and that the Times' article was just made-up propaganda.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 2 2019 20:14 utc | 11
There is a lot of confusion on what actually happened in Douma on April 7, 2018. The hospital videos were a hoax. No one died at the hospital. But someone killed 35 people in a house in Douma. Most likely they were killed with chlorine gas in a cellar and dragged upstairs for staged videos. White Helmets cleaned up the place, but I suspect they were already there when the murders happened.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 2 2019 20:16 utc | 12
The conclusion is important. More leaks will follow. Possibly more whistleblowers will step forwards. Mainstream press starts with its signature groupthink, by dismissing the leaks as disreputable, confirmed in their sincere conviction by the sources they consider reputable, like Bellingcat.
But by now they are already waiting for someone to just save their own reputation but then they have to commit even more to trusting Bellingcat to avoid or postpone a cascade of reputation changes.
Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Dec 2 2019 20:24 utc | 13
: Symen Danziger | Dec 2 2019 20:14 utc | 9
Many persons do not know the reference to Freisler.
There's a wiki. I suggest they read it...
Posted by: Walter | Dec 2 2019 20:52 utc | 15
@11 Petri Krohn, WGPSM investigated how the 35 people in the house died. They didn't die in the house. WGPSM thinks the bodies were also not recovered from elsewhere . They link to a study which purports to prove they were killed on purpose so that it would look like poison gas caused their death. It is a pretty gruesome theory. It is also plausible.
Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Dec 2 2019 20:59 utc | 16
The only reason the NYT published that article was to mention Bellingcat's 'debunking' of the OPCW whistleblower's complaint. Everything's alright with the Douma report, folks - nothing to see here, move along!
Why else would the NYT publish it? To tell its readers about this guy Eliot Higgins and his Bellingcat team - as if nobody's heard of them after more than five years since they first made headlines?
Even the title of the NYT is out of date:
"These Reporters Rely on Public Data, Rather Than Secret Sources".
The NYT reinforces that idea by using the word 'open-source' fifteen times in the article. It leaves out the fact that Bellingcat relies on leaked data too - for example databases of airline passengers and mobile phone accounts of suspects in the Salisbury case.
The response to the OPCW whistleblower is being controlled.
Posted by: Brendan | Dec 2 2019 21:05 utc | 17
The author of the Moon of Alabama piece forgets to include one of the most telling points proving that Bellingcat's assessment is factually inaccurate:
Chlorinated organic chemicals occur at trace levels in any industrialized area, so they are only indicative of a chlorine gas attack when samples test at high levels. The email said they didn’t. The OPCW omitted this in both its Interim and Final Reports.
from Narrative Managers Faceplant In Hilarious OPCW Scandal Spin Job.
Posted by: Antiwar7 | Dec 2 2019 21:16 utc | 18
Symen Danziger @ 9
Yes, it will be a traumatic moment in the Netherlands if the truth about MH 17 ever comes out. But it won't. The Dutch have a very refined way of finessing revelations of treachery. Just the fact that Russia was not allowed to defend itself in public against its accusers shows how the government of the Netherlands (with others) manipulated the investigation and channeled it to the desired conclusion. What kind of justice is that: guilty if considered guilty by the bosses. Have the investigators ever responded to Russia's documentation that the specific BUK that allegedly shot down MH 17 was continuously in Ukraine before the event occurred, that is, it was not transported nto Ukraine from Russia as Bellingcat maintains and as the investigators accept as fact.
Posted by: Quentin | Dec 2 2019 21:20 utc | 19
As goes Douma so goes, or will go, Skripal/Novichok, MH17 and WADA's targeting of Russian athletes.
It's all falling apart out there in MSM land. And all those sorry, sad lying bastards are finding they have little or no room to hide. Good!
Posted by: Hal Duell | Dec 2 2019 21:22 utc | 20
"... Porticus, Adessium, Pax for Peace and the Postcode Lottery are all Dutch organizations ..."
PAX for Peace itself receives funding from the EU, Adessium, Open Society Foundations, Foggy Bottom, the Royal Norwegian Embassy in Juba (South Sudan), Porticus, the Dutch and Belgian governments, and Crisis Action (the organisation founded by James Le Mesurier to help train and supply the jiha ... oops, the saintly White Helmets), and is allied with Amnesty International.
PAX for Peace even carries a blog detailing the daily activities of one Ahmed, a theatre producer living in Saraqeb, Idlib province, struggling to survive and maintain the town's cultural activities under the onslaught of ee-vul dastardly Russian and Syrian air force strikes. Cue the tiny violins ...
Adessium's 2018 Annual Report confirms that this organisation has donated money to Bellingcat and Open Society Foundations.
What an incestuous world these organisations are swanning around in!
Posted by: Jen | Dec 2 2019 21:24 utc | 21
...continued
Why do I believe the rebels gassed 35 people with chlorine in some cellar at or near the massacre house in Douma? Because this is exactly what I already said* six years ago about the gas attacks in Ghouta in August 2013. Rebels and their "civil defense" helpers in the Damascus Ghouta area were gassing hostages and uploading snuff videos to YouTube.
The Douma massacre house (the one with the chlorine cylinder on the roof) is a recreation of the Zamalka "ghost house" from August 2013. A number of massacred hostages were dragged into an unfinished building to be filmed as "proof" of a chemical weapons attack. The female guide whose voice can be heard on the videos was identified by Urs (Ursula Behr) as a well-known massacre manager from Douma. (Douma is one of the towns in the Damascus Ghouta area, a few kilometers from the Zamalka suburb.)
(* I said this both here on Moon of Alabama and in an interview on Voice of Russia radio, now Sputnik. Unfortunately I cannot find any link to the interview. I guess I should spend more time promoting myself. :( )
Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 2 2019 21:32 utc | 22
Symon Danziger @9
The truth about MH17, if it is ever recognised, will have more impact than on just Dutch society.
You state that "MH17 was no accident. The Ukrainian army shot down MH17. Putting the blame on Russia was a political decision in The Hague." But there are problems with this (on the surface) reasonable interpretation.
If the (Ukrainian) army did accidentally shoot down MH17 with a Buk rocket then it would be reasonable to assert that there was, by implication, a post-event decision (a cover-up) to put the blame on Russia. But this does not really stand up for the following reasons:
1. MH17 should not have been directed over the area in question (but it was).
2. MH17 was not taken out by a Buk rocket; it was shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force.
The implication of these two facts is that the MH17 disaster was a preplanned event with the intention of blaming Russia and the rebel forces; the Buk Rocket might well have missed or gone awry but the Ukrainian military aircraft was practically guaranteed to be successful in taking down MH17. And this must mean that more than just the Dutch where involved; it must be that NATO and the US were the main planners/instigators (it beggars belief that such an event could happen against the wishes of the US and NATO).
It seems to me that the US/west cannot allow the truth about MH17 to be recognised by its own (western) people under any circumstances. To achieve this, certain Ukrainians must be silenced and the Dutch must go along with putting the blame on Russia.
As I understand, many of the Ukrainians involved (key witnesses) in the event are no longer able to give evidence (for example, the pilot believed to be responsible for shooting down MH17 is reported to have [conveniently] committed suicided). This indicates that a cover-up has happened.
I'm afraid that Holland will be compelled to continue to blame Russia because the moment they step back from that position a true horror story begins to open up about what kind of society the whole of the West has become.
Posted by: ADKC | Dec 2 2019 21:35 utc | 23
The Brenninkmeijer and Van Vliet families will find new friends in high places with their funding of various "investigative journalists". These are people who value their privacy, maybe they should answer some questions of real journalists.Transparency International, OCCRP, ICIJ, Bellingcat, they all work hand in glove with the same donors to further the same agenda.
@Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 2 2019 20:14 utc | 9
Could you please expand a bit on those families ( of whom i have neve heard before...)and the issues you are implying here?
As a European, I am most interested.
Whe you talk about "their same agenda", you mean International Fascist Order?
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Sasha | Dec 2 2019 21:59 utc | 24
thanks b.. and thank you petri krohn for all the ongoing work you are doing too..
they can't let the bellingcat out of the bag because if they do, all hell breaks lose with the official script on a number of stories - douma, mh 17, skripal and etc. etc.. it is called 'circling the wagons'... that is what the nyt is doing here.. they better hope none of the many other folks sitting on explosive info never come out...this is one big ticking time bomb going off in slo mo, no matter who in the west is given the cash to diffuse it..
Posted by: james | Dec 2 2019 22:05 utc | 25
What I can't understand is how anyone believes Bellingcat's deception. After all the paragraph that Bellingcat cites as demonstrating how the e-mail writer's concerns are addressed in the "Final Report" is immediately before the one the that contradicts that claim. Did any of the fuckwits at the NY Times (now to be known as Der Stürmer) who worked on the article actually bother to read the "Final Report" or did they just read Bellingcat's crap and regurgitate it?
2.16 Based on the analysis results of the samples taken by the FFM from the cylinders, Their proximity at both locations, as well as the analysis results of the samples mentioned under paragraph 2.6, it is possible that the cylinders were the source of the substances containing reactive chlorine.
2.17 Regarding the alleged use of toxic chemicals as a weapon on 7 April 2018 in Douma, the Syrian Arab Republic, the evaluation and analysis of all the information gathered by the FFM—witnesses’ testimonies, environmental and biomedical samples analysis results, toxicological and ballistic analyses from experts, additional digital information from witnesses—provide reasonable grounds that the use of a toxic chemical as a weapon took place. This toxic chemical contained reactive chlorine. The toxic chemical was likely molecular chlorine.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 2 2019 22:14 utc | 27
@ADKC it's not just a reasonable interpretation, it was confirmed to me by someone who worked with one of the intelligence agencies involved in this mess.
It was a BUK missile, fired by the Ukrainian army. You won't find it in public parlimentary records but Dutch politicians decided to put the blame on Russia.
Dutch involvement in the February 2014 coup in the Ukraine is well documented.
The Dutch are NATO's plumbers, the little guy that does the dirty jobs that can't see the light of day.
Dutch military intelligence is involved in drone targeting for the US in various conflict zones. While Dutch politicians are bickering about human "collateral damage" in Iraq, they are responsible for targeted killings based on low quality intelligence with lots of civilian casualties in Somalia for example.
The Mayday Rescue Foundation, of White Helmets/Le Mesurier fame, is based in the Netherlands. Just like Bellingcat. Hundreds of millions were funneled via Mayday Rescue Foundation to various terrorist organizations in Syria. Including millions of Dutch taxpayer money.
When a few journalist got the reply to their FOIA request, it turned out some parts that should have been redacted were in fact not redacted. There it was, in plain text, Dutch support to various jihadi groups. The whole dossier was labelled State Secret, case closed.
James Le Mesurier knew too much and unfortunately stumbled to his death. Maybe some poor soul with Bellingcat training can find out if Eliot Higgins has a balcony.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 2 2019 22:27 utc | 28
teh balcony routine is certainly possible with the bellingcat.. thanks for your many fine posts symen..
Posted by: james | Dec 2 2019 22:44 utc | 29
Excellent reporting again- it is becoming impossible for the Hitchens' of this world not to extend the respect "B" deserves. (I have my own theories on that problem, if it is one, but I'll keep them to myself.)
Regard MH17 I recall at the time convincing myself that the 'accident' arose because Ukrainian fascists, at that time totally out of control and running wild, were trying to shoot President Putin's Airliner out of the sky.
I had no evidence bar the slim coincidence that Putin was travelling that day in the general vicinity. And both neo cons and nazis (am I repeating myself?) had the bit between their teeth. They certainly would have killed Putin if they could and they were so incompetent that they might have been mistaken in their interpretation of his plane's bearings by thousands of km.
One thing is quite certain about MH17: neither Russia nor the democratic republics was responsible. This is absolutely certain because neither the US nor Ukraine have released their air control and satellite data. If there was anything resembling evidence or even hints that the antifascist/ant imperialist side was involved the doctored data would have been splashed over the media long ago.
Instead the silence continues. All the clatter and white noise from Bellingcat and the oldest imperialist power in the world (Hi there Amsterdam!) can't change that.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 2 2019 22:50 utc | 30
@Sascha The Brenninkmeijer family is behind the C&A fashion chain. They are some of the wealthiest people in the Netherlands with ties to the royal family.
The Van Vliet family got wealthy in the commodity trading business and contributes millions per year to "a balanced society characterized by integrity, a balance between people and nature, and social harmony". They like "open and democratic societies".
Where have we heard that before? Yes, the usual suspects. The team up as donors with Soros' OSF and the Omidyar Network.
They will do anything to protect Anglo-American hegemony.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 2 2019 22:51 utc | 31
b writes "Thus another propaganda organization, the New York Times,...." Sweet music to my ears. b and Trump are on the same page on this one.
There have been other more glorious descriptions of the NYTimes:
Some years ago, in an interview of a NYTimes reporter by Michael Enright on the CBC radio network in Canada, Enright fawned over the NYTimes to the point were it was as though the interview was perceived as a magnanimous gift from on high, bestowing precious pearls of wisdom from an exemplary journalist from a hallowed institution that singularly occupied the rare upper echelons of the journalistic heavens. And to think that a reporter from such a - overcome with emotion here - fount of fabulous journalistic work would deign to be interviewed by a mere journalistic hack/mortal from the frozen wastelands of Canada, why, we are so beyond all blessing.... And so on.
Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Dec 2 2019 23:24 utc | 32
#17 mentions or quotes "Chlorinated organic chemicals occur at trace levels in any industrialized area"
Actually chloro organics are found in trace amounts in any natural environment. The Sea of Cortez is a rich source and it is the result of natural bacterial action. The Great Salt Sea in Utah is another. When the amounts reported are in the parts per billion then the first hypothesis should consider simple bacterial action. Of course, the use of hypochlorite solutions (i.e. Chlorox) has already been considered and is the most likely explanation of the parts per billion amounts that the OPCW chemists detected. Of course, if 170 kilograms of Chlorine gas had been released inside a building then we should have expected significant parts per million if not thousands of organo organics.
But alas, so few people can think in powers of ten.
Posted by: ToivoS | Dec 3 2019 0:54 utc | 33
Tuyzentfloot - 15 and others
That the rebels could kill a few dozens of people to fake a chemical attack is quite realistic and unsurprising, as far as I'm concerned.
What I wonder about is the Eastern Ghouta attack, because that one involved hundreds of dead, and that opens up far more gruesome prospects.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Dec 3 2019 0:56 utc | 34
I did not know much about Bellingcat besides negative characterizations in MoonOfAlabama and similar sources. But some impartial experts beg to differ:
NPR BOOK REVIEWS
'From Russia With Blood' Doesn't Capture The Messy Nature Of Russian Politics
November 19, 201911:10 AM ET
LEONID RAGOZIN
[...] Much of what we know about the Salisbury incident and the Malaysian plane attack derives from the brilliant online forensic experts at Bellingcat, who have partnered with the Russian investigative outfit The Insider. If you are used to their meticulous style, dispassionate voice, methodological transparency and groundbreaking conclusions, From Russian With Blood might come as a disappointment.
There you have it! Brilliant! Investigative! Meticulous! Dispassionate! Transparent! Groundbreaking! Surely, a seasoned expert like Ragozin would get at least 3 out of 6 correctly.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 3 2019 2:37 utc | 35
b quote - " the NED, which spends U.S.government money on more than 1.600 U.S. government paid Non-Government Organizations, is a Trojan horse, a cover for the CIA" in the link b provides, william blum refers to NED as a go, not an ngo, which is a lot more accurate.. i see today on cbc China bans U.S. military aircraft and ships from Hong Kong.. towards the bottom of the article i quote a usa state representative : ""We have a long track record of successful port visits to Hong Kong, and we expect that to continue," said a U.S. State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
"False accusations of foreign interference" against the U.S. NGOs "are intended to distract from the legitimate concerns of Hong Kongers," the official said."
and a bit further down - "The U.S.-headquartered NGOs targeted by Beijing include the National Endowment for Democracy, the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs, the International Republican Institute, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House.
"They shoulder some responsibility for the chaos in Hong Kong and they should be sanctioned and pay the price," Hua said."
the link provided by william blum above, which i link to again here needs to be drilled into a greater number of people so that they can stay on top of just what is going on in the world today with these so called NGOs...
Posted by: james | Dec 3 2019 3:25 utc | 36
Symond Dyzinger @29
"It was a BUK missile, fired by the Ukrainian army"
Yes, that is one story.
But another story backed by witnesses and a reasonable interpretation of the damage to MH17 is that it was a military aircraft that shot down MH17.
If it was a Buk then it could have been the Ukrainian military or the rebels depending on whether or not you accept the history of that particular Buk missile (provided by Russia) or not. If it was an aircraft that shot down MH17 then it could only have been the Ukrainian military. Hence, it is essential that the West maintain that it was a Buk that took down MH17.
On the day of the event witnesses (civilians on the ground) speak of a military aircraft being present in the sky. I am of the view that the story of the Buk is just about muddying the waters and making it more plausible that it was the rebels (and, by extension, the Russians) who were responsible.
Posted by: ADKC | Dec 3 2019 3:44 utc | 37
Bevin @28
Yes, I have read similar reports but...
Putin and Russia would have been idiots to overfly Ukraine at such a time. I believe that this story is fake with the purpose of creating the impression that it would be normal to fly over Ukraine - "it must be so even Putin flew over Ukraine". The story leads those who are ready to believe that Ukraine attempted to shoot down Putin's plane not to question MH17's flight path. It also creates the cover of an out of control and wreckless Ukrainian military (when in fact they were following the instructions of their Western masters).
I don't believe for a second that Russia would permit Putin's plane to fly in an area where there was even the slightest risk. How on earth could anyone believe otherwise?
But, let's assume (for the sake of argument) that Russia and Putin are idiots, would Ukraine really have tried to shoot down Putin's plane? Surely Ukraine (and the West) would be aware that such an act risked the complete destruction of Ukraine, the US, and several NATO countries. It is just not plausible that Ukraine and the West would take such a risk.
And, anyway, Russia officially denied that Putin overflew Ukraine.
Posted by: ADKC | Dec 3 2019 4:15 utc | 38
The problem with blaming a BUK for the MH17 shootdown is that, because so many military aircraft carry armor on the under side, the BUK is designed to position itself above its target and then explode downward into the top of the enemy target. The damage to the MH17 plane was caused by projectiles fired horizontally into the forward port side, exiting out the forward starboard side.
Another problem with this particular incident is the large number of nice, round 30mm holes through the forward (cockpit) area of the MH17 plane, and the lack -- among the MH17 wreckage -- of any of the three-dimensional, X-shaped projectiles that the BUK propels toward its target when it explodes. The Russian SU-25 (as well as the newer SU-27) operated by the Ukrainian air force carries a 30mm auto-cannon.
Those facts alone seem to me to be pretty well dispositive as to who the guilty parties is or are.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 3 2019 4:17 utc | 39
@AntiSpin If you consider the location/number/pattern of the holes, the firing rate of a 30 mm cannon, the speed of the Boeing and the closing rate of the presumed fighter jet, it is physically impossible to end up with this result.
It was a BUK, but one belonging to the Ukrainian army.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 3 2019 4:38 utc | 40
All the crimes being discussed on this thread were productions authored by the Evil Outlaw US Empire, as is the attempt to cover it up. Who gets to sit in the in the dock for it all; how many thousands? Think about the entire scope of those crimes along with others of this century and compare them to those of Nazi Germany. Ponder that for several minutes, then think about South America and the third round of carnage post-WW2 being delivered there from the same source. If after a few minutes of thinking of nothing but those events and the fates of the victims doesn't make you sick, then there's something wrong with your moral compass.
Thanks for the update, b! Bellingcat and the Times are no different from the terrorist vermin and their chain of command which reaches back to the CIA and War Department.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2019 6:15 utc | 41
@ADKC 35
Generally agreeing with your post, but this here:
If it was an aircraft that shot down MH17 then it could only have been the Ukrainian military.
The fighter jet was not necessarily Ukrainian. Could also have been from a nearby airbase, with some special stealth characteristics... only pointing to the possibility...
@Symen Danziger 38
The German private detective Resch has been contacted by an insider who claims that MH17 was shot down by an aircraft. Resch offered the evidence to the Dutch authorities who refused to look at it...
Posted by: mk | Dec 3 2019 7:21 utc | 42
Yes they all work for "De Bilderberg Group"
And dont forget the Pilgrim Society.....
Posted by: HTG | Dec 3 2019 8:17 utc | 43
mk says:
The fighter jet was not necessarily Ukrainian. Could also have been from a nearby airbase, with some special stealth characteristics...
'All your base are belong to us'
Posted by: john | Dec 3 2019 8:46 utc | 44
Posted by: ADKC | Dec 3 2019 3:44 utc | 37
But another story backed by witnesses and a reasonable interpretation of the damage to MH17 is that it was a military aircraft that shot down MH17.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 3 2019 4:17 utc | 39:
Another problem with this particular incident is the large number of nice, round 30mm holes through the forward (cockpit) area of the MH17 plane,
I strongly believe that story is a hoax. Perhaps it is even planted on purpose to create false conspiracy theories, but more likely it is just a misinterpretation of the images. At the time I have been pixel peeping the original high resolution jpegs that I found somewhere on the net and failed to discover any evidence of those alleged 30mm holes. Al the holes are different sizes and shapes. There are countless tiny impact craters that can only have been made by small particles like shrapnel. Some look like exit holes, but not if you look carefully. High velocity objects do not just cause holes, but like meteorite craters also tend to cause ejection of matter in the opposite direction and some sort of wall surrounding the hole. There are (at least) two layers of aluminium. The upper is bent upwards, but in many places you can see the lower bent inwards. All of them are entry holes for sure.
But there is another theory of what happened. Witnesses have seen fighter jets near MH17. This was a strategy according to some. Air control guides an airliner over the war zone, fighters hide behind to avoid being spotted by enemy radar that shows only one dot and the airliner transponder ID. Even if they were spotted, they assumed nobody would risk hitting the airliner trying to shoot them down. But somebody did.
It is not unlikely that some rebels got their hands on an Ukrainian buk and fired in the general direction of a fighter jet, but hit the airliner instead. Operating just a launcher without the radar support that is normally required, they may not have noticed the airliner that was flying near the intended target. The missile was looking for a target and preferred the bigger one.
Posted by: Joost | Dec 3 2019 9:10 utc | 45
I wonder if Bellincat's Eliot Higgins got his 'Suck my balls!' retort from watching SouthPark's Cartman? Most likely :-D Eliot 'suck my balls!' Higgins. Has a nice ring to it, no wonder it sticks :-D
Posted by: deschutes | Dec 3 2019 10:01 utc | 46
Joost @ 45:
For BUK missile-launching systems to operate, they absolutely require radar to track and lock onto the target, and then help guide the missile launching unit to lock onto the target. They cannot operate otherwise, they are not designed to operate without radar search and tracking.
The SA11 missile does not hit the target directly either but explodes above or below it. As the target would have been travelling at several hundreds of kilometres an hour at minimum (cruising speed for a Boeing 777 is nearly 900 km an hour), the explosion would have peppered the entire length of the plane with diamond-shaped and X-shaped shrapnel and some of that shrapnel would have penetrated passengers' bodies.
Strange then, that the autopsy report issued by the State Coroner of Victoria on its examination of the remains of several Australian passengers recovered from MH17 included a statement that "missile injuries [are] rare but present" with the word "missile" being broadly interpreted to mean any flying object. (This means the injuries could have been caused by flying plastic cutlery among other things.)
Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2019 11:24 utc | 47
I have tried earlier in the day to link to Pax for Peace's website and to link to its page where it acknowledges its partners and sponsors. I was using another PC which kept dropping my comments down the S-bend of the proverbial rabbit hole. Its partners and sponsors include the Belgian and Dutch governments, the US State Department, George Soros' Open Society Foundations, Adessium, Crisis Action (I have a feeling James le Mesurier had something to do with Crisis Action) and the Royal Norwegian Embassy in Juba, South Sudan. (Shopping not exciting in Juba, eh?)
You can even read the sad tale of Ahmed the theatre producer in Saraqeb, Idlib province, as he battles from day to day under the onslaught of the ee-vul Russian and Syrian airforce bombardment. Cue the tiny violins ...
Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2019 11:44 utc | 48
Deschutes @ 46:
Not to mention the fact that Eliot Higgins resembles Cartman from "South Park" and his old blog monicker (before his sudden rise to celebrity notoriety) was Brown Moses, a name which can easily be mocked as Brown Noser.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2019 11:48 utc | 49
AntiSpin @ 39, Symen Danziger @ 40:
Try the scenario where not one but two air force fighter jets are approaching the passenger jet with one fighter jet flying coming directly towards the cockpit on the passenger jet's port side (where the captain sits) from the front at a slight angle, and not at an 90 degree angle. The second fighter jet is flying behind the passenger jet in its radar shadow, also at a slight angle, and firing at the cockpit's port side.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2019 12:09 utc | 50
This is just coming in with regards MH17
Dutch prosecutors complaining about the "suspect" Tsemakh not being in Russian jail.
What a ridiculous kindergarten. I'm looking forward for the trial, promises to be entertaining.
Posted by: mk | Dec 3 2019 12:29 utc | 51
Clueless Joe #7
"it's just HK, a nearly irrelevant city on the fringe of the country, not big mayhem going on across several of the core cities."
According to The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire, HK is a major financial center/asset for offshore money hidden in tax havens. That may be why this initiative is under way to cancel the HK treaty ex post facto and return HK, or maintain it, under some kind of Western control.
This documentary is a must-see to understand the catastrophic effects of offshore tax havens in which trillions are sequestered that have in effect been creamed off by vulturous elites and alienated from countries' real economies.
Posted by: Really?? | Dec 3 2019 13:22 utc | 52
Antispin #11
Can you provide a date and/or headline for the NYT article?
And your own? Or at least the NYT article?
I am curious, as I have a friend--writer/journalist---who interviewed Ginsberg a number of times.
Posted by: Really?? | Dec 3 2019 13:27 utc | 53
Getting back to the topic of chemical weapons....
Are we detracted by OPCW fraud and self-evident use of it as corrupted organization? Distracted from what's happening before our eyes?
Let us not fail to also consider the cryptoweapon organization that is, many say, poisoning the world and causing very major effect on the health of people. Paper> "Glyphosate-based herbicides and neurodegenerative disorders" (for starters)
see> Don’t Look, Don’t See: Pesticides in the MSM (@ off guardian)
see> Letters by Rosemary Mason - MB ChB FRCA
@ tinyurl [dot com]/wbvuh6n
..................
About the MH17...the nose was shot full of holes. The cadavers of the pilots were autopsied. The autopsy remains, I believe, secret...
Those bodies tell the story. Everyboy knows that in a murder you start with the body...it's the "best evidence".
The real event is recorded in the flesh, and there's only one reason to keep that secret...the custodians of the evidence don't want people to know. In context, that means they themselves are aligned with the people that did it.
What State dominates the Dutch State?
Posted by: Walter | Dec 3 2019 13:33 utc | 54
The Dutch State is involved in that MH17 drama..
To keep it under the carpet... the Dutch government did get their 120 Tons of Gold back from the USA......
Where in this story can we find that very special AWACS plane that was by the NATO exercise some 300..400 km away...
Do not read anything about Carlos...... the aircontroller of Kiev and his story...
Further do miss the picture of CNN after 6 hours of the accident... did found that by a German side one day... did look like an air to air missile... not a BUK...........
Posted by: HTG | Dec 3 2019 13:50 utc | 55
It all boils down to a simple question.
Cui bono?
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 3 2019 13:50 utc | 56
Dutch prosecutors complaining about the "suspect" Tsemakh not being in Russian jail.
What a ridiculous kindergarten. I'm looking forward for the trial, promises to be entertaining.
Posted by: mk | Dec 3 2019 12:29 utc | 50
The Dutch prosecutors (among many others) should all be in jail - whether Dutch, Russian, Malaysian or any other jail. Like the OPCW DG and senior management, by fabricating their investigation they are accessories to mass murder.
Posted by: BM | Dec 3 2019 14:20 utc | 57
A question for Symen Danziger:
According to the documentary about MH17 by Max van der Werff, the Malaysian authorities took custody of the black boxes. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen any information about the content. Did they publish their findings?
Thanks for your answer!
Headache
Posted by: Headache | Dec 3 2019 15:06 utc | 58
ADKC@38
I don't disagree with your conclusion. But, beware of shooting at straw men: did you not notice that I made allowance for the fact that the proximity of a Putin carrying aircraft to the Ukraine would have been unlikely?
In my scenario there was simply wild shooting- of the sort for which the azov militia and other gangs of neonazis are famous- at anything that might have resembled a passenger plane within range of them.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2019 15:06 utc | 59
Evelyn, ("Avant Garde Group Charges Harassment by City") that's a very interesting glimpse back in Time to 1966, many thanks. By 1970 the City was gripped by a heroin epidemic. This extended at least as far as an executive secretary to the mayor...and since the topic is OPCW, can we consider that and related epidemics as chemical war?
Seems so, see, inter alia "The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia" (A.W.McCoy) etc.
"Big White Lie" (Levine)
it's obvious that floods of dope are a weapon against the ordinary volk, and make it simple to ruin any individual, "guilty" or not.
Posted by: Walter | Dec 3 2019 15:42 utc | 61
Walter @60
It would be more than a little interesting to know from AntiSpin @11 something about own 1966 notes (or memory).
Posted by: Evelyn | Dec 3 2019 16:01 utc | 62
Indeed it would!
I never met Ginsberg, but I did know some of his circle, and did a graduate course on him. Critical analysis of his poetry. "Howl" - I wrote a paper arguing that Mr G was high on amphetamine. Fun class.
The nyt article repeated the appeal to emotion theme about "the flag" then being curated by, ah, dark agency... The "Wurlitzer".
An appeal to emotion has no place in news journalism. Once you see that, you know how to understand the text.
Posted by: Walter | Dec 3 2019 17:16 utc | 63
@ Really?? | Dec 3 2019 13:27 utc | 53
Sorry -- it was all much too long ago.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Dec 3 2019 18:48 utc | 64
Yesterday I commented (see above) that the only purpose of the NYT's piece appeared to be to mention Bellingcat's 'debunking' of the OPCW whistleblower's complaint which was recently reported.
I wonder if another article today in the Atlantic was prompted by b's remarks above about Skripal and the Spiez tests? https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/12/britain-russia-nato-disinformation/602836/ . I don't see any other particular reason to publish that today - it's nearly all the same old propaganda about Russia controlling people's minds by weaponising information. However, Spiez gets mentioned a few times, including in the very first and very last sentences.
Pure coincidence of timing of both articles? Am I just being paranoid?
Posted by: Brendan | Dec 3 2019 19:05 utc | 65
Slight correction: b's remarks about Skripal and the Spiez tests were in a different post a few days ago.
Posted by: Brendan | Dec 3 2019 19:08 utc | 66
34 Clueless Joe.
the east-Ghutakilling was reported to be near 200 women and children from Alawite families having been abducted in another region and probably drugged and gassed ,then transported to the staging scene.
Posted by: willie | Dec 3 2019 19:57 utc | 67
More things that are happening after the disclosing of OPCW fake report...
Posted by: Sasha | Dec 3 2019 20:18 utc | 68
@Headache The black boxes will not shed light on the perpetrators.
I am more interested in US satellite imagery of the eastern part of the Ukraine before and after the downing of MH17. The existence of such imagery was confirmed by John Kerry but it was not shared with the JIT.
And what about the primary radar data? Or the exact locations of the Ukrainian BUK launchers and radar installations in the eastern Ukraine on that fateful day? Or independent verification of the Ukrainian stock of BUK missiles?
Lots of questions remain.
This 2016 article by the late Robert Parry of Consortium News is still fascinating to read https://consortiumnews.com/2016/01/15/mh-17s-unnecessary-mystery/
My advice, read the entire accident investigation report, not just the executive summary. It can be downloaded here https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/page/3546/mh17-crash-17-juli-2014
On the bottom half of page 239 of the English report it clearly states that the Ukrainian army had powerful air-defence systems both in the western AND eastern part of the Ukraine. The Ukrainian army has a substantial BUK inventory.
The Ukrainian army therefore had the means to shoot down MH17. There can be no doubt about a motive. They even have a track record of shooting down civilian airliners, like Siberian Airlines flight 1812.
The Ukraine should have been treated as a criminal suspect, until a thorough criminal investigation disculpated them. This was not the case. The Ukraine was included in the Joint Investigation Team (that does the criminal investigation) right from the start. This was a political decision.
To invite a criminal suspect to join the team that investigates the crimes possibly committed by this suspect is frankly outrageous. Due process? Right from the start it was perfectly clear that they had no intention to get this case before an independent judge in accordance with (inter)national law.
Why isn't druglord Ridouan Taghi part of the team of the Dutch national police that investigates the crimes committed by the criminal organization led by... Ridouan Taghi? If I were Taghi's lawyer, I would formally request to include Taghi in the criminal investigation team, on similar conditions as the Ukraine in the JIT, to assure that the truth and only the truth will be uncovered. Of course, Taghi would be happy to provide evidence against the real perpetrator. His veto over the entire criminal investigation is a logical step. Right?
It would perfectly illustrate the sorry state of criminal proceedings in the Netherlands. No one should go to jail in a country that does political prosecutions on doctored evidence. No one.
Should the Dutch Safety Board (OVV) have done the accident investigation in the first place? The answer is no. It was delegated to the OVV by the Ukrainian aviation authorities with this document
https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/nl/media/inline/2018/10/11/agreement_nbaai_and_dsb_website.pdf
That the Ukrainian authorities have a conflict of interest is evident. But the Dutch also suffer from the same conflict of interest, they were heavily involved in the February 2014 coup in the Ukraine. Dutch military intelligence was running operations from the embassy in Kiev. In 2013 the Dutch were the biggest donor of the Ukrainian based anti-Russian propaganda channel Hromadske TV, for example. They shouldn't have any involvement in both the accident and the criminal investigation.
The "evidence" of Russian involvement in the downing of MH17 consists of manipulated intercepted communications by the notoriously unreliable Ukrainian SBU and the stuff that Bellingcat makes up for its sponsors.
Most Dutch journalists remain silent, only promoting the offical narrative with holes in it so large you could fly a Boeing 777 through it.
The MH17 case is a classic example of lawfare against Russia. To get to the truth you should use a similar approach. Ask legal questions.
Why is a criminal suspect part of the team that does the criminal investigation? What is the legal basis and who is responsible for this decision?
What are the implications for other criminal investigations in the Netherlands? Could any criminal suspect join the team of law enforcement officers? With veto power over the criminal investigation?
Why does the Dutch government on one side encourage the next of kin to start legal proceedings against Russia and on the other side discourage them to start proceedings against the Ukraine? The Ukraine should have closed its airspace for civil aviation. Failing to take reasonable measures to ensure the safety of its airspace can result in liability of the Ukraine, as explained in this document that was drafted at the request of members of parliament in the Netherlands
https://www.vu.nl/nl/Images/Legal_Remedies_for_Downing_Flight_MH17_tcm289-747125.pdf
Why does the Dutch police force buy expensive OSINT training from Bellingcat? Is this kind of financial support in accordance with national law and EU regulations? Is Bellingcat de facto a Dutch government organization?
Maybe journalists should use the freedom of information act (WOB) to get information about the exact relation between the Netherlands and Bellingcat, the communication between these parties and their financial ties.
There are people in the Dutch intelligence and law enforcement community who know what really happened. Why do they remain silent? They are fully aware of Dutch involvement at the highest level. A slow and painful death is preferable to a career as a whistleblower.
The 2014 coup in the Ukraine didn't go as planned. It turned out to be a combination of a snake pit filled with Nazi's, corrupt politicians/oligarchs and a big black hole that sucked up lots of money but failed to deliver the expected ROI. People in the Ukraine, the EU and the US are clearly not happy.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The Netherlands is the weakest link.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 3 2019 21:54 utc | 69
# 69
"A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The Netherlands is the weakest link."
Thank you for your very informative posts.
I have Dutch in-laws but my own family member who connects me to them is so anti-Trump (= anti-Putin) and so are they, that I don't think there is any chance of getting them to look at the info you provide.
I don't quite get the message of the sentence copied above, though.
By "chain" do you mean the Ukraine coup?
That is, the Netherlands dropped the ball and messed up the coup and its desired results?
Can you be specific about the desired results of the coup?
Or by "chain" do you mean the attempt to discover the truth about the downing of MH17?
Thanks!
Posted by: Really?? | Dec 3 2019 22:27 utc | 70
I caught this thread during a break at work. I got home and NHK was running one of these puff pieces on Bellingcat. In the MSM/Propaganda world, one hand washes the other.
Posted by: Curtis | Dec 3 2019 22:40 utc | 71
Sasha @68
A must-read article from Venessa Beeley.
IMO the THREE STOOGES (Epstein, Baghdadi, Le Mesurier) were retired not killed. To Wit:
To date, no official autopsy has been completed on Le Mesurier. Many questions remain unanswered. Why was his body repatriated so quickly to the UK while the Turkish investigation was presumably still ongoing?
There was no genuine identification of the bodies of Epstein and Baghdadi either.
'Narrative managers' (as per Caitlin Johnstone) will tell us that it's incovceivable that these men are still alive. LOL. We've seen a lot of inconceivable things in the last few years.
The Western-backed operations led by each of these men had become an embarrassment. For James Le Mesurier, Venessa Beeley reveals:
Le Mesurier played a pivotal role in organizing the witnesses used in OPCW inquiries into the alleged chemical attacks blamed on the Syrian government. As British academic, David Miller pointed out, “the process of ‘witness’ selection was contaminated by an operative (JLM) paid by several of the belligerents in the conflict most obviously the UK government.”As details continue to emerge, the possibility of a correlation between recent revelations of OPCW corruption and Le Mesurier’s demise is becoming increasingly plausible, a possibility that will be covered further in part two of this series. Certainly, the pressure was building and Le Mesurier must have been feeling the heat as the Douma chemical attack narratives were collapsing under the weight of the exposure of manipulation, obfuscation, and staging by the White Helmets.
We've seen substantial efforts to cover up alleged ;) links of each of these to Western intelligence agencies by those 'narrative managers'.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 3 2019 22:58 utc | 72
@Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 3 2019 21:54 utc | 69
If you read the report published at MintPress by Vanesa Beeley I linked above about Le Mesurier case and funding of MayDay Rescue and White Helmets as well as deviation of these funds to "moderate armed rebels" the kind of Jabat Al Nusra and the like...you will find that amongts the main donors are also the Dutch governemnt.
As has been recently reported, that German special operation forces´ head has been found related to Nazi groups in Germany, and being the Netherlands another good nest of nazi supporters, being one of them who hosted at first fugitive Carles Puigdemont ( president of Catalan Generalitat at the time of self-declared independence process who, under legal requirement escaped from Spain hided in a car trunk, who, along with Azov battalion operatives, wholy support the nazi thugs in Hong Kong ), one would conclude that there is a nazi network in Europe trying to dismantle social democracy by undemining trust in state and insititutions.
To this goal, they are emabarqued in promoting nazism throughout Europe along with jihadi terror, both ends of the same thread pushed by European, and Western, elites, so as to erradicate welfare state without having to deal with massive unrest from the population, in the last death rales of capitalism.
Posted by: Sasha | Dec 3 2019 23:13 utc | 74
@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 3 2019 22:58 utc | 72
Even most interesting than Le Mesurier, I find his alleged wife, political agent of UK FCO still alive...mourning...whose destinations on ditu are most suspicious...
Then is she appearing in different cadres of think tanks like Atlantic Council...that is NATO...
Blanco y en botella leche, we say here...
What other "narrative managers" apart from Caithlin Johnston do you suspect?...I have always found her quite confussing....prividing some true facts while messing up something beneffiting Trump andthe "alt-right", thus the far-right international network...also present in the so called "alt-media"...where "alt" is more related to "alt-right" than to really "alternative"...
Why all the "alt" blogs/media openly or subtlety support Trump?
there you have The Saker, amongts all the possibilities, still nominating Trump as second "man of the year", after Tulsi Gabbard...
Posted by: Sasha | Dec 3 2019 23:27 utc | 75
Symen Danziger @ 69:
You might like to know that MH17 took off from Amsterdam Airport (Schiphol). Nearly 10 years ago, on Christmas Day 2009, Schiphol Airport allowed one Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to board a plane bound for Michigan in circumstances that look very much like a breach of security protocol. During mid-flight over Canadian airspace, UFA attempted to detonate plastic bomb explosives in his underwear but they apparently had absorbed too much moisture (erm, he hadn't changed his underpants for 2 days) and they did not go off properly. UFA suffered first and second-degree burns.
At the time (and also in 2014), airport security at Schiphol Airport was the responsibility of ICTS International NV, a Dutch-based company founded by former employees of Shin Bet (Israel's equivalent of the FBI) and El Al security. A subsidiary company, Huntleigh SA, had been responsible for airport security at Logan International Airport in Boston on 11 September 2001. There is a reason Huntleigh SA is now no longer handling airport security there!
So even if the Dutch had nothing to do with the Maidan revolution in early 2014, they should not have been part of the Joint Investigation Team anyway: had the evidence collected from eastern Ukraine suggested that a bomb could have been on board MH17, the Dutch (with the history and the connection Schiphol Airport has) could very well have tried to isolate and shield that evidence away from other members of the team.
There is also a little matter about Kuala Lumpur having hosted a War Crimes Tribunal annually since 2011 and in that tribunal's deliberations in 2013, Israel was declared guilty of genocide but I think you have enough information to digest for a while.
Posted by: Jen | Dec 3 2019 23:34 utc | 76
@51 mk
From the article linked to:
"Prosecutors now believe that the missile was fired from Russian territory near the Ukrainian border."
Does this mean they have changed their story yet again and are now claiming the
missile was fired from russian territory? If so, then we are into total insanity now.
Why would tsemakh be a suspect if the missile was fired from russian territory? What about
all the videos and photos of the buk that were taken in ukraine? All fake, obviously. This
is really about the total absence of eyewitnesses to the substantial exhaust plume of the
buk missile. This rules out both a rebel or ukrainian buk being responsible for the atrocity.
It is a last ditch attempt to provide anything, however implausible, to deflect from the most
plausible murder weapon being a Python air to air missile.
Posted by: evilempire | Dec 4 2019 0:20 utc | 77
Sasha @75:
What other "narrative managers" apart from Caithlin Johnston do you suspect?
I think you misread what I wrote. I don't suspect Caitlin Johnstone of being a 'narrative manager'.
Just the opposite.
My reference to CJ stems from the fact that Empire 'narrative managers' are a focus (and target) of her writing.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 4 2019 0:26 utc | 78
One of the major problems with the BUK theory is that there were no missile contrails seen on a clear day.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 4 2019 0:39 utc | 80
Walter 61
I read Levine's books. It's interesting how the CIA thwarted DEA efforts so much.
Posted by: Curtis | Dec 4 2019 1:09 utc | 81
Back OT.
The NED, White Helmets, etc are constant reminders that our own government is funding propaganda against us. One would think this is illegal. But a quick search of the terms "laws against US propaganda at US population" reveals a bipartisan effort to bypass, skirt, sneak, whatever around any such limitations especially since 9/11. Then again there's the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 ....
(sigh)
Posted by: C | Dec 4 2019 1:17 utc | 82
The jit supposedly went through thousands of images to identify
the buk in the videos and photos as one of russian origin. But the
videos and photos were supposed to be proof that the russian buk
was in rebel controlled ukraine at that time. How can they then
contradict themselves so blatantly with this latest "belief",
what we common folk would normally call a lie? If the defendants
can be tried in absentia, can they be defended in absentia?
Some organization needs to file a motion to dismiss and then bring
charges against the entire lynch mob at the ICJ.
Posted by: evilempire | Dec 4 2019 2:21 utc | 83
@Really?? In the name of democracy and human rights, there was so much money to be made from trying to push Russia out of the European energy market and arms sales to counter the "Russian threat". There is plenty to steal in the Ukraine too. Hunter?
Replacing Russian gas by US LNG sounds simple enough, but only the Poles are happy to pay a premium.
Things didn't go as planned. Crimea is still Russian. The NATO/GCC/Israel/Jordan sponsored "armed moderate opposition" in Syria was defeated. The sanctions and infowar against Russia had only limited success.
The Ukraine will be bypassed as a gas transit. Nord Stream II nears completion. The Danes put on a little show to please Washington. Even the EU is fed up with the wrong kind of corruption in the Ukraine. The Ukraine now needs to figure out a deal to buy Russian gas and restore ties with Russia to break the stalemate.
The Dutch hoped to further the agenda, but momentum was lost and they ended up with the skeletons in the closet. To expose what really happened with MH17, they are the weakest link with a lot to lose.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Dec 4 2019 3:57 utc | 84
Another tell-tale sign of attack by plane (instead of BUK missile) is the focused fire on the cockpit.
!!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 4 2019 4:48 utc | 85
its all interconnected.. hopefully the MoA bar can connect the dots.
Posted by: snake | Dec 4 2019 5:38 utc | 86
Rare sighting of an actual, real journalist in the wild. Experts are at a loss to explain this remarkable find, but said this was not unusual years ago.
Tareq Haddad@Tareq_HaddadYesterday I resigned from Newsweek after my attempts to publish newsworthy revelations about the leaked OPCW letter were refused for no valid reason.
5:25 AM · Dec 7, 2019·Twitter Web App
2.5K Retweets 4.9K Likes
Tareq Haddad@Tareq_Haddad·10h
Replying to
@Tareq_Haddad
I have collected evidence of how they suppressed the story in addition to evidence from another case where info inconvenient to US govt was removed, though it was factually correct.
Tareq Haddad@Tareq_Haddad·10h
I plan on publishing these details in full shortly. However, after asking my editors for comment, as is journalistic practice, I received an email reminding me of confidentiality clauses in my contract. I.e. I was threatened with legal action
Tareq Haddad@Tareq_Haddad·10h
I am seeking legal advice on how to proceed and whether I may be entitled to some type of whistleblower protection due to possibly fraudulent behaviour. At very least, I will publish the evidence I have without divulging the confidential information.
https://twitter.com/Tareq_Haddad/status/1203274308811993088
Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 7 2019 22:29 utc | 88
Tareq Haddad should publish his next report in Consortium News. Because Robert Parry :)
Posted by: tuyzentfloot | Dec 7 2019 22:36 utc | 89
@ Posted by: PavewayIV | Dec 7 2019 22:29 utc | 88 with the tweets from Tareq Haddad....thanks for that!!!!
I can't help but worry about the long term life of Tareq Haddad given his outing of further OPCW/empire perfidy.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 7 2019 23:02 utc | 90
Paveway IV @88--
Newsweek huh; one of BigLie Media's many hydra heads. Lots of important evidence has surfaced yet still no prosecutions or even resignations of any prominent Western or Imperial politico has occurred. Yes, the man needs to ensure his security. Wikileaks will certainly publish the material; it would be a tiny bit of payback if it did.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2019 2:12 utc | 91
@ Paveway IV #88
Catlin Johnstone is on it as shown in the link that follows
Journalist: Newsweek Suppressed OPCW Scandal And Threatened Me With Legal Action
She ends her piece with the following
"
The time is now for everyone with a platform to start banging the drum about the OPCW scandal, because we’re seeing more and more signs that the deluge of leaks hemorrhaging from that organisation is only going to increase. Mainstream propagandists aren’t going to cover it, so if larger alternative media outlets want to avoid being lumped in with them and discredited in the same sweep it would be wise to start talking about this thing today. It’s only going to get more and more awkward for everyone who chose to remain silent, and more and more validating for those who spoke out.
"
We will see where the tipping point really is, perhaps here and now
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 8 2019 3:01 utc | 92
psychohistorian @92--
Excellent point made by Caitlin--this story makes an excellent vehicle to delineate genuine journalists from BigLie Media. It's well beyond time to return Muckraking to the public vernacular as an honorable term of high esteem versus the millionaire propagandists who deserve tar & feathering for their immorality & cowardice.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2019 17:47 utc | 93
So we can add to the Dutchisms - Dutch Courage (booze), Go Dutch (the Dutch guy won't pay), Dutch Maid (the lifeless bed bolster) - Dutch Truth (obvious lies).
Posted by: jack garbo | Dec 9 2019 4:18 utc | 94
Willie, the demographics involved in these alleged chemical attacks are remarkable for their receiving no attention. If what you say is accurate (no criticism of you), how likely would it be that Alawites would be there and why just women and children? What was the map location of each body?
What were their home addresses? How long since they were there? Who last saw them there? Why did they leave? Where are the men?
The Khan Sheikhoun incident was reportedly preceded by hostages being taken from a nearby town.
Posted by: Richard Ong | Dec 17 2019 5:45 utc | 95
The comments to this entry are closed.
Well none of this is surprising. Also nobody in the mainstream media besides Tucker Carlson has reported on this.
Posted by: Jonathan Gillispie | Dec 2 2019 17:04 utc | 1