Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 14, 2019

Trump And Zelensky Want Peace With Russia. The Fascists Oppose That.

NBC News is not impressed by the first day of the Democrats' impeachment circus. But it fails to note what the conflict is really about:

It was substantive, but it wasn't dramatic.

In the reserved manner of veteran diplomats with Harvard degrees, Bill Taylor and George Kent opened the public phase of the House impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump on Wednesday by bearing witness to a scheme they described as not only wildly unorthodox but also in direct contravention of U.S. interests.

"It is clearly in our national interest to deter further Russian aggression," Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and a decorated Vietnam War veteran, said in explaining why Trump's decision to withhold congressionally appropriated aid to the most immediate target of Russian expansionism didn't align with U.S. policy.

But at a time when Democrats are simultaneously eager to influence public opinion in favor of ousting the president and quietly apprehensive that their hearings could stall or backfire, the first round felt more like the dress rehearsal for a serious one-act play than the opening night of a hit Broadway musical.

"In direct contravention of U.S. interests" says the NBC and quotes a member of the permanent state who declares "it is clearly in our national interest" to give weapons to Ukraine.

But is that really in the national U.S. interest? Who defined it as such?

President Obama was against giving weapons to Ukraine and never transferred any to Ukraine despite pressure from certain circles. Was Obama's decision against U.S. national interest? Where are the Democrats or deep state members accusing him of that?

Which brings us to the really critical point of the whole issue. Who defines what is in the "national interest" with regards to foreign policy? Here is a point where for once I agree with the right-wingers at the National Review where Andrew McCarthy writes:

[O]n the critical matter of America’s interests in the Russia/Ukraine dynamic, I think the policy community is right, and President Trump is wrong. If I were president, while I would resist gratuitous provocations, I would not publicly associate myself with the delusion that stable friendship is possible (or, frankly, desirable) with Putin’s anti-American dictatorship, which runs its country like a Mafia family and is acting on its revanchist ambitions.

But you see, much like the policy community, I am not president. Donald Trump is.

And that’s where the policy community and I part company. It is the president, not the bureaucracy, who was elected by the American people. That puts him — not the National Security Council, the State Department, the intelligence community, the military, and their assorted subject-matter experts — in charge of making policy. If we’re to remain a constitutional republic, that’s how it has to stay.

We have made the very same point:

The U.S. constitution "empowers the President of the United States to propose and chiefly negotiate agreements between the United States and other countries."

The constitution does not empower the "U.S. government policy community", nor "the administration", nor the "consensus view of the interagency" and certainly not one Lt.Col. Vindman to define the strategic interests of the United States and its foreign policy. It is the duly elected president who does that.

and:

The president does not like how the 'American policy' on Russia was built. He rightly believes that he was elected to change it. He had stated his opinion on Russia during his campaign and won the election. It is not 'malign influence' that makes him try to have good relations with Russia. It is his own conviction and legitimized by the voters.
...
[I]t is the president who sets the policies. The drones around him who serve "at his pleasure" are there to implement them.

There is another point that has to be made about the NBC's assertions. It is not in the interest of Ukraine to be a proxy for U.S. deep state antagonism towards Russia. Robber baron Igor Kolomoisky, who after the Maidan coup had financed the west-Ukrainian fascists who fought against east-Ukraine, says so directly in his recent NYT interview:

Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine’s most powerful figure outside government, given his role as the patron of the recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give up on the West and turn back toward Russia.

“They’re stronger anyway. We have to improve our relations,” he said, comparing Russia’s power to that of Ukraine. “People want peace, a good life, they don’t want to be at war. And you” — America — “are forcing us to be at war, and not even giving us the money for it.”
...
Mr. Kolomoisky [..] told The Times in a profanity-laced discussion, the West has failed Ukraine, not providing enough money or sufficiently opening its markets.

Instead, he said, the United States is simply using Ukraine to try to weaken its geopolitical rival. “War against Russia,” he said, “to the last Ukrainian.” Rebuilding ties with Russia has become necessary for Ukraine’s economic survival, Mr. Kolomoisky argued. He predicted that the trauma of war will pass.
...
Mr. Kolomoisky said he was feverishly working out how to end the war, but he refused to divulge details because the Americans “will mess it up and get in the way.”

Kolomoisky's interview is obviously a trial balloon for the policies Zelensky wants to pursue. He has, like Trump, campaigned on working for better relations with Russia. He received nearly 73% of all votes.

Ambassador Taylor and the other participants of yesterday's clown show would certainly "mess it up and get in the way" if Zelensky openly pursues the policy he promised to his voters. They are joined in this with the west-Ukrainian fascists they have used to arrange the Maidan coup:

Zelenskiy’s decision in early October to accept talks with Russia on the future of eastern Ukraine resulted in an outcry from a relatively small but very vocal minority of Ukrainians opposed to any deal-making with Russia. The protests were relatively short-lived, but prospects for a negotiated end to the war in the eastern Donbas region became more remote in light of this domestic opposition.
...
The supporters for war with Russia are ex-president Poroshenko and two parliamentary factions, European Solidarity and Voice, whose supporters are predominantly located in western Ukraine. Crucially, however, they can also rely on right-wing paramilitary groups composed of veterans from the hottest phase of the war in Donbas in 2014-5.

Only some 20% of the Ukrainians are in favour of continuing the war against the eastern separatists who Russia supports. During the presidential election Poroshenko received just 25% of the votes. His party European Solidarity won 8.1% of the parliamentary election. Voice won 5.8%.

By pursuing further conflict with Russia the deep state of the United States wants to ignore the wishes not only of the U.S. voters but also those of the Ukrainian electorate. That undemocratic mindset is another point that unites them with the Ukrainian fascists.

Zelensky should ignore the warmongers in the U.S. embassy in Kiev and sue for immediate peace with Russia. (He should also investigate Biden's undue influence.) Reengaging with Russia is also the easiest and most efficient step the Ukraine can take to lift its desolate economy.

It is in the national interest of both, the Ukraine and the United States.

Posted by b on November 14, 2019 at 18:23 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

"Look, do you ever stop to consider that maybe it's your browser...?"

Yes. I've tried 3, all have the problem.

The problem wouldn't occur if he just used ahref for a link. The person refusing to use a href for links because he is either too lazy, too incompetent or too selfish to care, is the problem. 7 or 8 times out of ten, it is the same person doing it: PeterAU

Posted by: Realist | Nov 15 2019 17:25 utc | 101

This Kolomoisky guy says, 'If you don't give us more money, US, we'll stop playing with you and start with Russia.' Why would the NYT print this crap if it wasn't seeing Kolomoisky as a vehicle to shore up, increase pressure on Washington to go all out for Ukraine. To boot, it shows how important Trump's impeachment is: if Ukraine falls so goes the US.

Posted by: Quentin | Nov 15 2019 17:51 utc | 102

@92
"The ultimate effect is to remove Ukraine's stranglehold position over Russian gas exports, which in turn severely undercuts Ukraine's ability to both get really cheap Russian gas and additional transit fees - a major blow to their economy. "

This is correct, as anyone who understands the history of Russia-Gazprom-Ukraine knows. It also throws a wrench into Ukraine's domestic politics to the extent that various factions have taken different positions re Russia's gas and have played games with the contracts and also brought the EU more intrusively into the gas business with the intent of harming Russia's gas sales and contracts. This is all over now. They have to come up with something else, someone else to game . . . As for the EU, not sure where they now stand on gas imports to Germany and elsewhere in the EU via Nord Stream 2.

Posted by: Really?? | Nov 15 2019 17:57 utc | 103

flankerbandit

The bulk of EU sanctions on Russia rest on MH17. US or five-eyes started pushing the EU to sanction Russia shortly after the crash. EU resisted until the 30th. The Australian's and Dutch would not officially go to the crash site until EU imposed the sanctions (although Dutch officials did go with the Malaysian's to pick up the black boxes). Through that time much MSM propaganda about bodies rotting in the sun, Russia blocking investigation ect.
When EU conceded on 30th Ukraine Rada passed a law allowing Australia to go to the crash site. At the same time, a Ukrainian armoured unit pushed up through Torez and sporadic fighting and shelling commenced at the crash site.

Many articles like this between 17th and 30th july 2014
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/russia-sanctions-mh17_n_5605162
"U.S. President Barack Obama has piled pressure on Europe for a more forceful response and the three leading EU powers - Britain, France and Germany - said they should be ready to ratchet up sanctions.
Britain, in particular, said it was willing to suffer the economic consequences.
But diplomats said Tuesday’s meeting was not expected to go further than agreeing on companies and people to be hit with asset freezes under a more aggressive framework agreed last week. Previously, they had only said they would decide on the list by the end of July."

July 30
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-30/us-eu-sanction-russia-over-support-for-rebels-in-ukraine/5633926
"MH17: US and EU to impose broad sanctions on Russia over support for Ukraine rebels; fighting keeps investigators from Malaysia Airlines crash site"

July 31
https://iportal.rada.gov.ua/en/news/News/News/96536.html
"31 JULY 2014, 12:30
The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine adopted the Law “On ratification of Agreement between Ukraine and Australia on sending Australian personnel to Ukraine in connection with MH17 Malaysia Airlines plane crash”
( Information Department of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine Secretariat )

Under the law, “the Agreement between Ukraine and Australia on sending Australian personnel to Ukraine in connection with MH17 Malaysia Airlines plane crash, signed on July 24, 2014 in Kyiv, comes into force as soon as Australia receives a diplomatic note stating that Ukraine has fulfilled its inter-state procedures.”
The Agreement stipulates that Australia can send its police, military and civilian personnel (hereinafter – Australian personnel) and related assets to Ukraine in connection with MH17 Malaysia Airlines plane crash.

The bill was registered under No. 0087."

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 15 2019 18:13 utc | 104

This Ukraine stuff is a sure a tangled mess. Zelensky looks to be Kolomoisky's boy and Kolomoisky is at, least publicly, turning back towards Russia. EU introduced sanctions against Russia on the basis of MH17, with Kolomoisky quite likely involved in the shootdown. Zelensky supposedly will look at Ukraine involvement in russiagate, but there will be many skeletons in the closet he will have to keep covered up.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 15 2019 18:23 utc | 105

Forgot another piece of the puzzle. In a prisoner exchange not long back, a Russian or ethnic Russian Ukrainian was that was accused of being involved in MH17 was included in the prisoner exchange. This was under Zelensky.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 15 2019 18:28 utc | 106

Peter,

Thanks for bringing all of this informative background into the picture...

I agree that Kolomoysky is likely involved in the MH17 downing...this guy is a complete scumbag...

BTW...a little off topic, but Southfront has a very good article today on Bolivia...

Seems the pushback is coming from the Bolivian people, particularly the indigenous community...Russia is also walking back its sort of 'recognition' of that witch Anez as the 'interim' president...

The Morales party holds an absolute majority in parliament and they have LAWFULLY elected an indigenous member of parliament as the new interim president...

The Fascist police and military are continuing the arrests and crackdown, but the resistance seems to be mounting...

Bolivian Parliament Elects New Head, Refuses to Acknowledge Self-Proclaimed President Jeanine Anez

Who knows...maybe this coup is not a done deal just yet...let's keep our fingers crossed...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 15 2019 18:46 utc | 107

The are not 'separatists', but rather Ukrainians who want to stay in a federated Ukraine as 'provinces' with powers to pass their regional laws, similar to those in Canada.

Posted by: chet380 | Nov 14 2019 19:28 utc | 9

Wrong. They are 2 independent republics who want to join Russia. If they hadn't been attacked in the way they were, then you would have a point.

Posted by: Ralph | Nov 15 2019 18:49 utc | 108

@flankerbandit #97
Your vitriol is sadly not backed up by reality of either fact or expertise.
Ukraine’s actual pipeline capacity to Europe is 146 BCM. The amounts of Russian gas which transit is lower, at least due in part to Ukrainian production capacity, transit fees and politics.
You can see the actual Ukraine gas transit capacity in page 6 source, but the transit games allowed Ukrainian governments to buy cheap Russian gas and sell more expensive Ukrainian gas, with transit fees as a major control mechanism. This is a subsidy far greater than the transit fees alone, plus some suspect games as to what Ukraine actually produces (I.e. some of that production might be literally relabeled Russian gas).
But you apparently didn’t know that because of your self professed expertise apparently based on reading Wikipedia.
The only fool here is the one shouting.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 15 2019 19:44 utc | 109

@psychohistorian
If this works, I’ve identified the problem you’re having posting using safari.
I am using Safari now, and the links I posted above got tweaked. The Wireshark showed odd characters, it appears the default double quote in iOS + safari isn’t the correct double quote needed for the html.
Source
What I did here is cut and paste from MoA example and replace the link and text parts.
If this comes through, that’s how you solve your problem.
If true, a delightful example of a (Inadvertant) font attack.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 15 2019 20:19 utc | 110

As I understand it, Zelensky whatever his wishes is pretty much controlled by oligarchs and has problem with Ukrainian nationalist military. The US supports the Nazis because they are strongly anti Russian. Putin realises that Zelinsky is compromised and so does not invest much hope in progress with Ukraine. Trump likely realizes that US is being played. Ukraine (oligarchs) are trying to play the middle between US and Russia to encourage them to offer support to Ukraine (Putins not buying it but US will go for it. This is why nations with which US gets involved do not benefit.

Posted by: jared | Nov 15 2019 20:47 utc | 112

@ c1ue who is having Safari problems with HTML

Sorry, but you couldn't pay me to use Safari as a browser but am glad you found the problem that was causing you to break the formatting at MoA

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 15 2019 20:55 utc | 113

@ peter au.. you would enjoy that link - video that grieved linked to back @ 82? i believe... check it out.. it gives a good overview on the leadership of ukraine and who is driving ( Kolomoisky) and who is in the passenger seat (Zelensky)..

regarding all the browser issue probs.. i am using firefox.. i have no problems.. i think it is fine to link directly to a url, if the url is not nearing the width of the page.. it saves time and i do it from time to time too.. i know how to use the HTML codes, but it seems unnecessary in short links.. i certainly wouldn't recommend those bitty urls, as i think it is spyware stuff...

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2019 21:47 utc | 114

The fool just wants to keep it up...

Your vitriol is sadly not backed up by reality of either fact or expertise.

Look fool...I never claimed 'expertise' in the gas pipeline area...

It is YOU who are here wading in with a very authoritative tone, telling me what is and is not 'correct' about my simple statement based on actual numbers being mentioned publicly now by the Russians about how much gas will go through Ukraine...

I have already given that video link to the Vesti news report...

They are talking about 10 bcm per year...

And the study I pointed to talks of 26 bcm as an upper limit that is probably not likely to be in the cards...

As for capacity through Ukraine, your link doesn't actually show that...but I have said already that the two Nordstream pipes which is 110 bcm a year...plus for instance the Yamal-Europe pipe which goes through Belarus and Poland and carries 35 bcm...that's 145 bcm right there...not including Turkstream...

Again...if you don't know what the heck you are talking about then STFU...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 15 2019 21:51 utc | 115

"think it is fine to link directly to a url, if the url is not nearing the width of the page.. "

I wouldnt mind if that were the case, but it isnt. if the page width was only occasionally broken, by different people that might be a hassle but bearable.

In this case however when the page width gets broken its almost invariably the same one person responsible. At least 7 times out of Ten its a link posted by PeterAU which is causing the problem.

And the reason is because he insists on posting, in the raw format (i.e. without using href) long http strings. The problematic strings are problematic because they contain no characters which would allow for text-wrapping, such as hyphen, or underscore.

he continues to do this despite having been informed several times by different people here that it is a problem.

Simply using href would eliminate the issue entirely.

When confronted he claims the strings do not cause a problem on his screen therefore there is no problem.

He does not accept that it is his responsibility to not break the page margins. In his mind its other peoples problem, not his behaviour, refusal to simply eliminate the issue entirely by a mere 10 extra characters or so, is just arrogant and selfish

Its not a problem for him, so he selfishly refuses to change his behaviour so that it wont be a problem for some one else.

If he didnt post so many comments it would be easier to ignore, but unfortunately he does. And unfortunately he breaks almost every thread he participates in.

When its almost always the same person, it demonstrates hes a complete selfish individal, because it could be easily eliminated

Posted by: Realist | Nov 15 2019 22:08 utc | 116

The title claims 'fascists' do not want peace. It would be more precise and informative if it read Wall Street does not want peace.

WS started WW I, WW II, Nam by using the CIA, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and many more. John Perkins has written that WS uses the CIA, US military, IMF, WB, State Department as being used to enforce WS economic domination/oppression on numerous nations for decades. We are now seeing WS methods in corrupting the Democrat party, the DOJ, the FBI, and members of the legislation. Douglass Valentine wrote of WS methods that are being brought into the US. [ref. CIA AS ORGANIZED CRIME]

Ref. https://thedailycoin.org/2019/07/25/war-mongering-brought-to-you-by-wall-street/

Posted by: olde reb | Nov 15 2019 22:59 utc | 117

@ 116 realist.. OT

well, peter au is actually quite generous with his time and sharing of info and insights... but, i hear what you're saying too... i see his posts and they don't interfere with my ability to read all the posts here clearly, so i have a harder time appreciating your position.. i am not discounting what you say.. it might be true for you, which is why i wonder about the different browsers and etc. and how this impacts it all.. i don't actually know.. @104 - all those links that peter provides don't affect my ease in reading down this page, so i am at a loss for why it would for you.. again - i take your word for it, but it is not my experience... i hope the problem gets worked out!

Posted by: james | Nov 15 2019 23:03 utc | 118

Well that's up to Peter aint it.

Posted by: Realist | Nov 15 2019 23:19 utc | 119

"104 - all those links that peter provides don't affect my ease in reading down this page, so I am at a loss for why it would for you."

None of the links at 104 cause a problem. They all textwrap (ie: fit within the page margins) because they all have hyphens or underscores where they can be text wrapped. The problem occurs when he posts, as he frequently does, a link without such characters.

Posted by: Realist | Nov 15 2019 23:26 utc | 120

Sadly no one cares that the goal is the root of evil on BOTH sides.Trump is poison, but fools can't get enough of him. I have no pity. by: Circe @ 100

Claims of abuse take time to materialize in the minds of observers <== yes, I think your claims about Trump are beginning to materialize in the minds of many different people and places at once.. But no one in the bar has yet resolved the question " how should Americans and all others who are governed by corrupt, negligent, incompetent or criminal persons protect themselves and their nations? The system the USA has in place to deal with the abusive or infringing powers of persons employed by the government is too weak, what there is of it, relies on the nation state itself to prosecute.

Injury cannot be prevented and resulting damages c/n/b compensatedAn injured party (member of the governed masses) no access to a means to be made whole for the corruptions of those in power. Currently, the governed must accept whatever is the result of wrongful, corrupt or abusive use of governing powers. This situation is a global problem which can only be resolved by a bottom up mass movement designed to bring worldly governments within the constraints defined by all of humanity as acceptable behavior by those in power.

There are 7 articles in the US constitution..
Article I concerns the persons elected by governed voters Article II (concerns only the VP and the President) and neither of them are elected by a popular vote.
Article II persons are elected (better appointed) to fill the Article II positions {President and VP) not by popular vote in an general election, but by a vote of the electoral college (who are they?). Meaning, the power the governed can bring to influence the government is limited; actually only a few members of the Congress might hear grievances of the governed. There are 425 such persons and the entirety of the congress represents only half of the government. If you look around at the constitutions and other governing documents in the world where capitalism, democracy or economic Zionism are in play, you find similar situations in the governing documents. Meaning, where a person exercising the power of delegated to a position in the government (that is the person in the job), enjoys unrestrained open season cart blanch opportunity to engage in corruption, fraud, deceit, and personal enrichment.

The constitution distributes power to act among those seated in various jobs. To each job it assigns certain powers and sometime assigns certain prohibitions to act. So the only restraint the voters among the governed might exercise is to vote the incumbent out of his position in the USA and to replace him/her with a new fraudster. In other words, there is no constitutionally approved way for those governed to constitutionally act to limit the abuse of power of the governed is so weak it is nearly impossible for it to remove from office a person who is abusing the power of the position by voting. A voting occurs only periodically, while the urgency to remove occurs immediately upon discovery of an abuse.
In total there are 527 identified positions in the constitution The governed are suppose to control the use of those powers by all persons who hold one of the 527 positions, but the governors have made that nearly impossible, as they have made their activities secret. How can one know what was done in secret? <=Independence Auditors can look beyond the secret to the substance, and report violations.

Minimize the distribution of power The two most powerful positions (that of President and VP) are not elected by the those the government governs, in spite of the massive amounts of money that is spent on population elections, popular elections do not elected POTUS and VP < the electoral college does this election.

Candidate access to the Ballot The electoral college is mostly directed, within each state, by power plays between the two political parties and the Secretary of each separate State. <=no wonder it is not possible to get an acceptable candidate on the ballot.

Investigate Governing documents It seems to me the US constitution, and the governing document of many nation states represent a powerful place to find the basic source of the problem of containing the abuse or misdirected use of power. Currently I believe it impossible to contain or restrain anyone who wiggles his or her way to one of the constitutionally identified position within a republican government.

Study how did it happenBarflies might think gee we know all about these abuses of power, that's all we have talked about for years but we have never really thought we could do something about it. It was just bar talk. Instead of exposing the exploits of governors as news, maybe we should begin to study how each exploit evaded the intentions, denied the interest or redirected the benefits in deference to the governed Americans. Maybe we should document how those seated in government positions get away with their abuses(not a news to be forgotten, but as a loop hole in the constitution that needs to be fixed. In other words, when do the governed have control over those who govern, and what subject matter shifts who is the governor between the laws and acts of the civil government and the laws and acts of the governed. We have the millions of examples, we have sufficient fully documented evidence acquired from a long history of governing systems to show that whenever power is given to one or a few persons to govern, there must also be equivalent and reciprocal power given to, vested independently in, the persons who are to be the govern so that there are two governments each protecting the interest of the governed from the governors.

the Duality Model of governanceThe governors (those actors in civil government) and the governed of that civil government must each write and police the laws that the others must follow. The governors of the state become the governed of the masses once the governors are elected ...and the masses become the subjects of those elected. But each party to the governor/governed relationship requires different and independent set of laws and different and independent sets of courts, and different and independent set of policing mechanisms.

Barflies..might spend some time writing up a proforma set of laws to help the governed contain the powers of those who hold power by virtue of a position in the state. What would such laws look like? Certainly over the years we each have the facts that show what it is that we are all concerned about.. Abuse of power is no longer a question, its a fact rampant among those who are the governors of the states. The question is how to contain and control abuse of power so the abusers cannot harm those that they govern?

Type of system does not matter It does not matter if one is talking about a republic, a dictatorship, a communistic system, a social system, a Nazi type system, a kingdom, a round table of investment advisers, or whatever.. the problem is the same.. and the solution i suggest is reciprocal, but independent, governance systems .. Those who govern the nation state become the governed by those who the nation state governs; there are two independent sets of laws, one applies to the governors and is enforced by the governed; and the other applies to the governed and is enforced by the governors.

CONSIDER THE RECIPROCAL MODEL OF GOVERNANCE. Nation State Governors/Nation state Governed = Nation State Governed/ Nation State Governors)

Rules for the Rulers courtesy of the governedThe nation state governors must follow the laws of mankind, human rights, and must not be allowed to find ways to corrupt or abuse their state provided powers or infringe on human rights (these must nots are the immutable laws of mankind and serve to impose on any who claim the right to govern; certain universal restraints on their powers), its just that to date those reaching a position of power have chosen to ignore them.

Restraints on abuse of power apply at all times Human rights Auditors investigate and report. Violations are remitted to a human rights court which removes the person found guilty from position of power and denies that person any right to again serve in a civil government.

Rob the RobberIt may surprise those who sought to impose globalism as a means to rob the weaker persons that the governed in every nation state jurisdiction already have a set of laws, but no enforcement mechanism to enforce them against those who abuse the power of the state.

Change the target from wealth by pillage to gain by honest effortIt seems to me, producing, imposing and enforcing reciprocal systems of governance would change the world and at the same time save it from itself.

Posted by: snake | Nov 15 2019 23:40 utc | 121

@flankerbandit #115
Sorry, but you are wrong, were wrong and just won't admit it.
You lack any form of self-critique nor do you apparently have much awareness of history.
The Ukraine was literally designed to be the trans-shipment point for USSR natural gas exports to Europe as well as to much of what used to be the Warsaw Pact. That's why it has enormous transit capacity - it certainly wasn't build by that nation since the USSR collapsed.
Here is an article which talks about the historical export of Russian/Soviet natural gas.
Note that the Soviet Union was exporting 109 bcm in 1990 of which 63 bcm was for Western Europe - and that was all transiting Ukraine at the time.
But since you clearly don't know this history and get all your info from news articles, these facts apparently don't exist for you.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 16 2019 1:03 utc | 122

flankerbandit @115

The EU Court Restricted Gazprom’s Right to Use the OPAL Pipeline: Conclusions

9-13-19

I did some searching, read up on the topic, and realised that everything, as always, was a lot of fuss over nothing.

Firstly, the entire current situation is very funny, as it is the pure war of Poland against the European Commission, and the European Commission against Poland in an attempt by the latter to occupy at least some place in Europe’s gas supply.

.. .

The cancelled decision of the European Commission from October 2016 gave to the Russian company the chance to additionally transport up to 10.2 billion cubic meters of gas a year along OPAL, but this is only 18% of the volume that supplies the first line of Nord Stream (or only 9% of the total amount of the first and second Streams).

Let me remind you that the gas along the Nord Stream-1 line through German territory then goes not only along OPAL (to the South), but also along NEL (to the West) and their total capacity is about 55 billion m³. But there aren’t any complains about the NEL branch.

MAPS

OPAL


OPAL/MIDAL/RHG/YAMAL/STEGAL/JAGAL/WEDAL/BBL/NEL

NEUE PIPELINE-PROJEKTE (EUGAL/BACI/Gazelle/Transgas)

Does it affect Nord Stream-2 somehow? No, not in any way.

NORD STREAM I & 2 GAS PIPELINES WITH ONSHORE LINKS

No way, because for the second stream the OPAL-EUGAL double [the dotted red line in the map immediately above] , the capacity of which will be equal to the same total capacity of the OPAL and NEL gas pipelines — 55 billion³ per year, is under construction.

. . .

This winter, in the absence of transit, doesn’t create problems for Russia, and Russia has the time to complete the second stream. An excessive amount of gas was already pumped to Europe – the gas storages that Gazprom bought in the West are filled chock-full more than ever, “Nord Stream – 1” is in operation.

Plus there is liquefied gas. Liquefied natural gas, after delivery by the tanker to the terminal, will continue to be supplied further along European pipes in the same way. And for the liquefaction of gas, “Gazprom” from near Kaliningrad has already moved to a floating re-gasification plant somewhere in Europe (in my opinion in the area of the Netherlands).

So for Russia this topic is noticeable, but not to the extent that it can worry and influence its decisions. And in order to annoy Russia our “European partners” seem to be ready to not only shoot themselves in the foot, but also to freeze their own balls off.

All of this will allow to uninterruptedly supply Europe without the gas transit system of Ukraine until the next season, and it will allow to complete “Nord Stream-2” and to construct a new line of Yamal 480 km overland (an extremely short section on the scale of land pipelines) along which there will be gas from Yamal.

. . .

I think by the winter, when the consumption of gas increases, everything will fall into place, Poland will cease to buy expensive American gas, having understood the futility of its attempts, that it will never be a gas hub. The Europeans are unlikely to buy expensive gas. After all, it will affect production prices. The only thing that the Poles will be able to achieve is is in fact some temporary increase in prices per cubic meter of gas at the same European hubs.


Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 2:02 utc | 123

james 114

It will be interesting to see where Zelensky Kolomoisky go. Kolomoisky funded some of the nazi battalion's but now he if he is turning to Russia, he will be their enemy. Perhaps he will dump MH17 and a lot of other stuff on them.

Re fake realist's trolling. Firefox is one browser that always keeps text at the right width when somebody has messed up. I only use firefox if the page is too wide to read. Page width is fine in other browsers. Also checked the page on my phone and that is fine.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 16 2019 2:21 utc | 124

flankerbandit @ 115

The EU Court Restricted Gazprom’s Right to Use the OPAL Pipeline: Conclusions

9-13-19

I did some searching, read up on the topic, and realised that everything, as always, was a lot of fuss over nothing.
Firstly, the entire current situation is very funny, as it is the pure war of Poland against the European Commission, and the European Commission against Poland in an attempt by the latter to occupy at least some place in Europe’s gas supply.

.. .

The cancelled decision of the European Commission from October 2016 gave to the Russian company the chance to additionally transport up to 10.2 billion cubic meters of gas a year along OPAL, but this is only 18% of the volume that supplies the first line of Nord Stream (or only 9% of the total amount of the first and second Streams).

Let me remind you that the gas along the Nord Stream-1 line through German territory then goes not only along OPAL (to the South), but also along NEL (to the West) and their total capacity is about 55 billion m³. But there aren’t any complains about the NEL branch.

MAPS

OPAL

OPAL/MIDAL/RHG/YAMAL/STEGAL/JAGAL/WEDAL/BBL/NEL

NEUE PIPELINE-PROJEKTE (EUGAL/BACI/Gazelle/Transgas)

Does it affect Nord Stream-2 somehow? No, not in any way.

NORD STREAM I & 2 GAS PIPELINES WITH ONSHORE LINKS

No way, because for the second stream the OPAL-EUGAL double [the dotted red line in the map immediately above] , the capacity of which will be equal to the same total capacity of the OPAL and NEL gas pipelines — 55 billion³ per year, is under construction.

. . .

This winter, in the absence of transit, doesn’t create problems for Russia, and Russia has the time to complete the second stream. An excessive amount of gas was already pumped to Europe – the gas storages that Gazprom bought in the West are filled chock-full more than ever, “Nord Stream – 1” is in operation.

Plus there is liquefied gas. Liquefied natural gas, after delivery by the tanker to the terminal, will continue to be supplied further along European pipes in the same way. And for the liquefaction of gas, “Gazprom” from near Kaliningrad has already moved to a floating re-gasification plant somewhere in Europe (in my opinion in the area of the Netherlands).

So for Russia this topic is noticeable, but not to the extent that it can worry and influence its decisions. And in order to annoy Russia our “European partners” seem to be ready to not only shoot themselves in the foot, but also to freeze their own balls off.

All of this will allow to uninterruptedly supply Europe without the gas transit system of Ukraine until the next season, and it will allow to complete “Nord Stream-2” and to construct a new line of Yamal 480 km overland (an extremely short section on the scale of land pipelines) along which there will be gas from Yamal.

. . .

I think by the winter, when the consumption of gas increases, everything will fall into place, Poland will cease to buy expensive American gas, having understood the futility of its attempts, that it will never be a gas hub. The Europeans are unlikely to buy expensive gas. After all, it will affect production prices. The only thing that the Poles will be able to achieve is is in fact some temporary increase in prices per cubic meter of gas at the same European hubs.


Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 3:00 utc | 125

The idiot just keeps going...

you are wrong, were wrong and just won't admit it.

You lack any form of self-critique nor do you apparently have much awareness of history.

Look moron...you are an idiot OK...?

That is the bottom line for me and I have no desire to keep wasting time on an idiot...

I was not 'wrong' about anything...

I didn't mention any 'history'...I simply stated in my original comment the fact that Gazprom in its new contract with Ukraine is going to be cutting that down to a fraction of what it has been...

Both you and your idiot friend Cheeza decided to take a run at me...you especially mouthy with your authoritative tone, when it is clear you are a half-baked joker...

Like I said IDIOT...if you have an OPINION...that is fine...but do not come at me with aggressive language and a patronizing tone...

The fact of the matter is exactly what I pointed to in that Vesti report...and the European study also supports the view that gas transit to Ukraine will be a lot smaller than it was...

Everybody knows this...everybody knows that this is why Russia built both of those Nordstreams, plus the other pipes...to get direct access to the end customer and cut out the middleman...

Considering also the coup in Ukraine and their aggression against Russian-speaking populations in the east, Russia is fed up...that news report I linked to even poses the question if Ukraine will have enough gas for its own needs...

So just get the fuck out of my hair already...I have stated clearly what the facts are, now get lost...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 16 2019 3:02 utc | 126

Flankerbandit @ 78, Peter AU 1 @ 77, Seamus Padraig @ 81:

Thanks for the additional information about the two military aircraft flying close to MH17 with their transponders turned off.

I had read Flankerbandit's comment @ 48 but for some reason my brain didn't flag the two military aircraft shadowing the Malaysia Airlines jet (but from opposed directions: one jet flying towards MH17 and the other flying behind MH17 in its radar shadow) and remembered the Air India and Singapore Airlines jets flying close by instead. Possibly because the Air India jet was flying close enough to MH17 that its crew had been asked by ATC in Dnipro to contact the MH17 flight crew when ATC lost MH17 on their radar. The Singapore Airlines jet flying to Singapore had left Paris about 11 minutes after MH17 left Amsterdam.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 16 2019 3:28 utc | 127

Nord Stream 2

The Cold War Returns to Germany

Shortly before its completion, the United States aims to torpedo the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would carry natural gas from Russia to Germany. Berlin is caught between the fronts in a global conflict over energy.

. . .


In the Senate, Democrat Jeanne Shaheen and Republican Ted Cruz are mobilizing against Nord Stream 2. Shaheen argues that "the United States cannot stand idly by while the Kremlin builds this Trojan horse." At the end of July, the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs voted 20 to 2 in favor of the "European Energy Security and Diversification Act of 2019." The only thing left is for the bill to be put to a vote before it can go into force.

It's possible the Senate could even use a congressional trick to expedite the process. The sanctions law could simply be added as an amendment to a larger bill, such as the law outlining the budget of the U.S. armed forces. The Democrats and the Republicans are currently negotiating that budget and it is expected to be adopted by Christmas. Additionally, Trump could move to impose sanctions on his own at any time.


Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 4:49 utc | 128

@c1ue #110, #111

It’s not a bug.

iOS 11 has introduced a feature called Smart Punctuation, which, among other things, automatically replaces straight quotes (") with opening curly quotes (“) or closing curly quotes (”), depending on their position in the text. Unfortunately, this “smart” feature knows nothing about HTML and auto-replaces straight quotes that enclose the href attribute value. This caused a part of your comment #109 to be moved inside the link (corrupting the link in the process). You can disable this feature in the Settings app (General > Keyboard > Smart Punctuation).

On macOS, you can disable it on a per-app basis in the Edit menu (Substitutions > Smart Quotes) or system-wide in the System Preferences app (Keyboard > Text > Use smart quotes and dashes).

Posted by: S | Nov 16 2019 5:04 utc | 129

King Lear @125

Good points!

Many of us see these things, though some see it more clearly than others.

But Trump apologists persist in their propaganda. Just as Obama apologists did while he was President - a fact that the Trump apologists refuse to take note of or simply waive off.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16 2019 5:08 utc | 130

@pogohere: The last link in your comment #124 is broken (it leads to your email account, which is obviously password-protected).

Posted by: S | Nov 16 2019 5:14 utc | 131

S @131

You mean this one? NORD STREAM I & 2 GAS PIPELINES WITH ONSHORE LINK

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 5:59 utc | 132

S @131

This one looks broken: NEUE PIPELINE-PROJEKTE(EUGAL/BACI/Gazelle/Transgas)

Appears to work now. Thanks

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 6:10 utc | 133

@pogohere
#132: Yes. On my computer, it displays Gmail account registration page.
#133: Still does not work for me. Throws HTTP 403 Forbidden error.

Posted by: S | Nov 16 2019 6:37 utc | 134

@ S with the Mac Smart Quotes BS....Thanks!!!

I just today looked at my Text Edit stuff in a HTML editor that let me look at it in Hex and saw it was different but it didn't click....getting too old to track all the BS Mac changes like that....maybe time to move to Linux and force myself to get/stay current again....sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 16 2019 6:47 utc | 135

@133

NEUE PIPELINE-PROJEKTE(EUGAL/BACI/Gazelle/Transgas)

@132 NORD STREAM I & 2 GAS PIPELINES WITH ONSHORE LINK

Once again, with feeling. (:>)

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 7:32 utc | 136

@pogohere #137: These are working. Thanks!

Posted by: S | Nov 16 2019 9:42 utc | 137

c1ue has linked to a research paper in his comment #109, but the link got corrupted. Here's a proper link: Russian Gas Transit Through Ukraine After Nord Stream 2: Scenario Analysis. Although the paper was sponsored by Soros NGOs and its policy recommendations follow their anti-Russia agenda, the basic data, charts and maps are correct and useful.

Posted by: S | Nov 16 2019 9:49 utc | 138

Pogo regarding your story from Der Spiegel...

They are full of shit...they claim that US sanctions could stop Nordstream 2 even now...

The owners of the ships have already indicated they would not hesitate for a single moment to cease work on the pipeline if the Americans follow through with their threat.

The development would be a fiasco for Russia. Globally, there are only five of these specialized ships and it would be close to impossible to find any kind of replacement. The North Stream 2 project would be dead.

That is nothing but the typical WISHCASTING that the CIA-coopted German lugenpresse engages in all the time...it is disneyland delusions that has nothing to do with reality...

Here is a report from just a few days ago from the US Brookings Institute

[Also an unreliable neocon tool, but at least more realistic than the toilet paper rag Spiegel]...

With some 85% of the pipeline already laid, new congressional sanctions aimed at companies participating in the pipeline’s construction will not stop it.

Instead, they will become a new bone of contention between the United States and Europe.

That is just common sense...large Euro energy companies are partners in Nordstream and have invested billions...do you think they are just going to throw up their hands and say 'Ok we give up'...?

Even a child can see this Spiegel diarrhea for what it is...

And supposedly the owners of those ships [there is actually only one company in the world, Swiss-based Allseas, that operates these deep sea pipe-laying ships] are going to drop Nordstream because they don't want to lose potential US business in the Gulf of Mexico...

That is bullshit...what pipelines are being planned for the Gulf...?...Zero...

Yet the Russians are the world's gas and pipeline superpower and have more pipeline projects in the works...

As if Allseas is going to risk their biggest customer for some bullshit US sanctions...[they are also laying the Turkstream pipeline...

Notice that the Spiegel propaganda piece conveniently gives no details or quotes about those ship owners who will drop Nordstream 2...a typical LIE strategy employed by CIA-owned media...

Ever heard of Udo Ulfkotte...?

He wrote the book Gekaufte Journalisten...which sold 1.5 million copies in Germany and told in stunning detail how the CIA buys or coopts just about every journalist in Europe...

PCR has written often about this...most recently just a couple of days ago...

There Is No Such Thing as a Free Press

The German media are notorious for their bullshit, such as Deutche Welle, Spiegel etc...

It is beyond ridiculous the crap in that article you pointed to...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 16 2019 11:05 utc | 139

Brother Udo (RIP) What an untimely death, eh? Coincidence, no doubt.

Anyway on YT with subtitles for the linguistically impaired.

"Gekaufte Journalisten - Udo Ulfkotte" tinyurl dot /pryazh7

That Good Man CIA Director Casey spoke true, everything you believe is in their sights, and pretty much under their control.

.............

Hey Flanker, don't sweat...it's just the things we see from the moving train, in zeros an ones. Breath, Brother.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 16 2019 13:40 utc | 140

@126 King Lear

Bernie Sanders as the least bad option for Russia relation, considering that though he occasionally falls for russiagate hysteria, he at least voted against CAATSA and the magnitsky sky act, and has been a consistent advocate of cutting the defense budget and ending regime change wars.

I agree, but don't bother with common sense and fact. For some strange reason, b has eyes only for Trump and that says a whole lot about his truth. Beyond pretzel contortion comes to mind or selling the image of Jesus on toast when it's just burnt. I wasted a lot of energy doing what you just did. When you hit the brick wall sarcasm is all that's left. But King Lear should know that the Jester is nobody's fool.

For instance:

Zelensky should ignore the warmongers in the U.S. embassy in Kiev and sue for immediate peace with Russia. (He should also investigate Biden's undue influence.) Reengaging with Russia is also the easiest and most efficient step the Ukraine can take to lift its desolate economy.

Yeah, yeah. That's why Z was pushing to get those javelin missiles and ready to trade a criminal investigation against Biden to get 400 billion in military aid.

Ukraine will sell its soul to be part of the EU and Nato before re-engaging with Russia.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 16 2019 14:09 utc | 141

Indeed Walter...very 'convenient' that heart attack on poor Udo at age 56...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 16 2019 14:10 utc | 142

Rule #1 in rules of war:
- There are no rules.

Treaties are temporary devices to buy time and placate.
They are meant to be broken as needed.

It is not really the US calling the shots, US government has ceased to function, is puppet government. US military is being controlled by outside forces for other interests.

The problem for all governments are they are (imperfect, temporal constructs built on personality, paper, good will.

The global oligarchy is built on wealth and pursuit of and is without end.

Posted by: jared | Nov 16 2019 15:18 utc | 143

Rule #1 in rules of war:
- There are no rules.

Treaties are temporary devices to buy time and placate.
They are meant to be broken as needed.

It is not really the US calling the shots, US government has ceased to function, is puppet government. US military is being controlled by outside forces for other interests.

The problem for all governments are they are (imperfect, temporal constructs built on personality, paper, good will.

The global oligarchy is built on wealth and pursuit of and is without end.

Posted by: jared | Nov 16 2019 15:45 utc | 144

I think smart people are trying to propose a model for which they have a solution.

I suspect it boils down to China (socialist, monarchy) vs western oligarchy. West needs to bring Russia to heal to prepare for confrontation with China. Russia seems susceptible to methods of disruption.

Posted by: jared | Nov 16 2019 15:55 utc | 145

flankerbandit @140

I trust you understand I post articles from various sources so barflies will be aware of what is being written
from different POVs. Thanks

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 16 2019 17:54 utc | 146

Pogo...not to worry...I wasn't attacking the messenger...

I do think it was necessary to debunk the Spiegel nonsense...we won't have long to wait to see what becomes of Nordstream 2...it's supposed to go online in a couple of months...

Of course then we will see Spiegel and other Lugenpresse simply moving on to other bullshit, without a word of explanation about their just disproved bullshit...

I've seen this so often in the MSM, that a good rule of thumb is to assume the opposite of what they are trying to sell you...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 16 2019 20:03 utc | 147

I was considering where to post this, and as it indirectly concerns the impeachment saga, I thought here was best. In preface I'll just say I was impressed by the bulk of this address but not the final paragraphs, which I disagree with in light of karlof1's reminder that Constitutionally speaking, we are bound by international law, having accepted the Charter of the United Nations. I'm not sure where Supreme Court powers with respect to the treatment of prisoners lie, but the matter isn't the main part of the address, as I see it.

attorney-general-william-p-barr-delivers-19th-annual-barbara-k-olson-memorial-lecture

Posted by: juliania | Nov 16 2019 20:07 utc | 148

@ King Lear | 150

I agree that the US is currently waging war on Russia.
But I think they feel they have Russia in hand - in spite of Putins able leadership, Russia has too many weak points.
Still he's doing good job of letting US destroy itself and of appearing the more reliable partner for those looking to do business. But China is in danger of becoming self sufficient as well as technologically on par.

Problem for the western oligarchs is ultimately to be the best, you need authoritarian rule which they almost have and which they have accomplished by weakening the host. But if you put US, England and rest of Europe together you have makings of good comedy.

Posted by: jared | Nov 16 2019 22:34 utc | 149

@ juliania | 149

Juliana, I think you will note in retrospect that the US is not in fact bound by the constitution - it's more of a guidance document, pretty weak at that - and has stated flatly that it rejects any accountability to the UN and the shit-hole countries that wine and dine there.

The rules-based-order only works in one direction, I'm afraid.
Again, treaties are made to be broken.

At this point there is nothing holding the US back from whatever it chooses to do within the bounds of its (currently unlimted) resources.

US is zombie nation under control of others - via CIA and technocrats. Russia and China just hope to stay clear while it self-destructs - the world's only hope to avoid enslavement.

Not all stories have a happy ending.

Well, that's my way of seeing it.

Posted by: jared | Nov 16 2019 22:49 utc | 150

King Lear, jared

I think the common understanding is correct: USA drove Russia into the arms of China after USA applied economic "shock therapy" to Russia in the 1990's. The looting of the country was supposed to lead to Russia's full and final capitulation to the West. Instead, the Russians suffered and then, after being repeatedly lied to and disrespected, they turned to China.

This "self goal" of the Western elites was the result of hubris and greed. Couple that with the loss of the Syrian conflict and an unstable financial/economic system (can-kicking after can-kicking) and you get a very paranoid ruling class. That's why we see such immense propaganda.

And these butt-hurt ruling elites want another bite at the apple. They want to double-down on failure as they always have.

China and Russia need each other (and other countries) if they hope to stand up to the Empire. USA will do what it can to break them up. The sheeple will get screwed. That 'screwing' will be worse the longer they accept the bullshit and ignore reality.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 16 2019 23:29 utc | 151

I thank you, Jared, for your response, though of course I disagree with your statement as far as describing Constitutional powers.

So no, I do not note in retrospect that the US is not bound by its founding document. I do note that the current policies of those in power are unConstitutional and illegal, but that is something you did not have to explain to me.

What I did not know, I will admit, is that the Articles of Confederation did not call for an Executive Branch at all, but only the Legislative and Judicial. So, after the Revolution, the founders of the country took pains to put an Executive Branch in place, because they experienced the need for it during that war. I wonder how many realize this, or that as Barr claims, it is not a powerful Executive branch we should fear, but rather the usurpation of executive powers by the other two branches.

I think he has a case, and would like to hear some arguments against this.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2019 0:49 utc | 152

: juliania | Nov 17 2019 0:49 utc | 154 ..It's my understanding that you are discussing two separate constitutions. The 1789 USC, while according to custom is the basic law now (though ignored) was done without a proper quorum and the ratification was quite likely fraudulent...and not possible without the Bill of Rights, which, added, persuaded many State to ratify...but not enough. Then they faked the necessary numbers.

That's from memory, and probably some will find deserved fault.

There are some who hold that legalistically speaking the original AoC stand as the basic law.

In either case we are now ruled by decree, and by threat of violence in some measure that falls between cops simply shooting (WACO for example) and the helpful cops escorting That Good Man Epstein out of the MCC and providing a corpse for the ringer.

Not that I would object. The outcome is obvious.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 17 2019 14:03 utc | 153

ralphieboy | Nov 15 2019 11:24 utc | 71

Upon the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine was left with the fifth-largest nuclear arsenal in the world. In exchange for financial assistance in the costs of removing all the nukes, the West guaranteed to defend Ukraine's territorial integrity.

No, neither the West nor Russia agreed to any such thing. According to Wikipedia (which in this instance I have no reason to doubt),

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

That is the crucial importance of the Crimean Referendum - I.e. it is Not a threat or a use of force. The breakaway provinces broke away in response to the activities of the New Rulers in Kiev, a purely internal Ukrainian affair. So no betrayal. See?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Nov 17 2019 23:54 utc | 154

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