b- I suspect the reason the Dems have thrown themselves into this impeachment circus is because they knew this investigation was in the works and possibly others as well:www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukrainian
I shortened the link, if anyone has a problem with it please refer to zerohedge.com
This Ukraine investigation will take down Biden, Hunter, Kerry, Kerry's stepson and probably Pelosi and her son. Although their scam is via a different Ukraine energy company. The link mentions several other people from the Obama admin, Obama himself may be at the bottom of this well.

Posted by: frances | Nov 20 2019 20:29 utc | 1

From Jim Stone:
"The CEO of Burisma in Ukraine was arrested. He started talking. As it turns out, Biden's kid, Hunter, was not getting paid $50, 000 a month, his base salary was closer to $200, 000 a month, and now that someone is talking, Hunter received several payments "in the millions" totaling $16.5million OUTSIDE of his regular pay.

Here is a quote from the original source at CD media

"In our extensive discussions with Onyshchenko, CD Media can report that he confirmed Hunter Biden took 'off the books' payments totally millions from Burisma.

"There were 'official' and 'unofficial' payments to the Biden family, " Onyshchenko stated.

Onyshchenko also confirmed that former FBI agent Karen Greenaway, who oversaw the Obama administration's anti-corruption efforts in Eastern Europe, directed the coverup of the Biden scandal at the time, in concert with the U.S. embassy in Kyiv, and other Deep State American government assets 'in-country'.

In Onyshchenko's former oversight role over Ukrainian energy security, he was in a unique position to acquire information on Burisma and their dealings with the Biden family.

My comment: The impeachment hearing is not going well. They keep chugging along with absolute blowouts that should end their trip down the road to lunacy, but keep on going like criminal nut cases that have nothing to lose, hoping the cops never catch up despite all the flat tires, among which this report was a serious one. It is shocking that this report relates directly to one of their guys they have in the race against Trump. It does not seem to matter to them at all if they get revealed time after time after time for what they are, it is becoming evident that the only thing that will stop them in their impeachment efforts is a long overdue arrest."
And recall Guliani said that Romania and China pay to play deals are far worse than what happened in Ukraine

Posted by: frances | Nov 20 2019 20:35 utc | 2

...and Joe Biden convicts himself..., quid pro quo out of the pie hole under the nose!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCSF3reVr10

Posted by: Taffyboy | Nov 20 2019 20:36 utc | 3

In a riff on the D's line of questioning, they're trying to carry out their end of a quid pro quo with their sponsors in the MIC. That idea came as a result of comments made during the Keiser Report I linked to on the open thread, that the D-Party is the War Party doing the MIC's bidding against Trump's move from being militantly Geopolitical to wanting to resume being the dominant Geoeconomic power the Evil Outlaw US Empire was once. As I suggested earlier, listen twice to the entire show.

IMO, the change in direction/emphasis on what needs to be the basis of the Evil Outlaw US Empire's power is what's driving the schism between the factions in the Current Oligarchy and thus the Duopoly. One can also see the rationale for Gabbard and Sanders's political-economic positions in the materials I've linked to that justify my line of reasoning.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2019 20:40 utc | 4

Why has Trump done the stupid things that have contributed to Russiagate and Ukrainegate?

Russiagate
'America First' Trump hired Manafort as campaign manager of his 2016 Presidential election - despite Manafort having been working in Ukraine for many years (thus having little, if any, recent experience with US politics), and despite Manafort's having been warned (by people that were likely connected to CIA) that Manafort's political work for pro-Russia parties was not appreciated.

Aside: IMO Deep State wanted to settle scores with Manafort, Flynn, and Assange.

Ukrainegate
Trump made an issue of Biden on the phone call with Zelinsky. The fact that Trump sought no quid pro quo is irrelevant. It's Trump's inadvisable mentioning of Biden that got Ukrainegate started.

Lastly, in the Spring, Pelosi and Hillary had both come out strongly against impeachment hearings, saying that an election was near and impeachment would be counter-productive. But they both support impeachment hearings now - over the nonsensical Ukrainegate allegations that lead nowhere except to a Democratic loss in 2020 after these 'witch hunt' hearings.

<> <> <> <> <> <>

Kayfabe
It's Deep State orchestrated kayfabe. USA hates whistle-blowers. They don't get the benefit of the doubt, like this one has.

The Intelligence Whistleblower protection Act did not apply to the phone call ...

Trump - Biden conflict helps Biden to get elected, just as Hillary's attack on Tulsi has helped to keep Tulsi in the race. This "meddling" is consistent with previous political manipulations:

In December 2018, Trump invites Pelosi to the White House to discuss his "Wall" - which helps her to get elected Speaker of the House.

In 2016 Sanders is Hillary's sheep-dog and Hillary makes crucial mistakes that lead to Trump's election (and the start of Russiagate's neo-McCarthyism).

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 20 2019 20:52 utc | 5

This article is really helpful.
https://creativedestructionmedia.com/investigations/2019/11/04
Again I have shortened the link, the article states:"Intelligence sources in Kyiv have informed CD Media that the ‘witness’ narrative of LT COL Alexander Vindman was created by corrupt U.S. State Department officials in Kyiv, Ukraine.

According to our sources, “Alexander Vindman [recent witness in favor of Trump impeachment], Gordon Sondland [US ambassador to the EU and Trump supporter] and Oleksandr Danilyuk [Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine from late May until 30 September 2019 before being fired] had a meeting in July 2019. Sondland asked Danilyuk as head of National Security Bureau of Ukraine to investigate Biden, Burisma, and Manafort related investigations. Apparently, Sondland didnt know that Danilyuk is Soros’ agent and supplies info to Democrats. This was the second leak to the Deep State. The first leak was made by Danilyuk because he was the only person in the room with fluent English when Zelenskiy and Trump had a phone call conversation. Zelenskiy speaks English on very intermediate level, loses the context and emotional sense…also, Yermak Andrei, the 2d Advisor to Zelenskiy is, allegedly, on the hook of FSB. Thus, it was Danilyuk who passed information to the Deep State to attack Trump.

“The Democrats waited for better timing of blowing the allegations…it came when Zelenskiy visited Washington and blew it in UN…plus, met Trump.

“Danilyuk was present at the Zelinskiy + Trump conversation, he told about the matters of the conversation to Alexander Vindman. Zelinskiy administration fired Danilyuk but is not able to fire Vindman.”

The article continues with info on Schiff's staffers meeting in Ukraine, it has the agenda, who attended, etc. There are other related articles too, worth review IMO.

Posted by: frances | Nov 20 2019 21:02 utc | 6

Two things:

(1) b is not being clear that Sondland drew a definite line between the White House meeting and the stalled military aid, in terms of how he thought they were linked to Zelensky making the desired announcement of investigations: While Sondland said he merely “presumed” the linkage to the military aid, he asserts the linkage to the White House meeting was made explicit to him (albeit via Giuliani).

(2) The “well documented Ukraininan interference” that actually occurred (ostensible dirt on Manafort) bears only a vague relationship to what has lodged in Trump’s shriveled lima bean brain (the DNC server spirited away to Kiev). Of course, since neither the Dems nor the Repubs are interested in noting this fact, it will be ignored.

Posted by: David G | Nov 20 2019 21:07 utc | 7

thanks b.... the way i see it, usa and everyone loses in the present set up.. you can't get down and grovel in the swamp with the usa or ukraine, as youre going to get a lot of mud on you and some of it is going to stick.. the info that comes out of the dynamic between these 2 countries is toxic, no matter which way you look... of course dems naively think they are going to use it to get rid of trump, but they are dredging up some toxic stuff with a lot of their own ckeletons in the closet... they are hoping none of it comes out and the focus remains on - as @5 jackrabbit notes - trump mentioning biden and how this is not allowed.. i can't see them gaining from this myself as the whole thing is a political theatre where we mostly know the final outcome... and, it's not just the ammo that trump can throw out here, but the accidental info such as what @1/2 frances points to as well... lots of ugliness can come out of this that is going to stick on everyone...

@3 taffyboy.. that is old footage repackaged in a new link... thanks anyway.. it is fairly clear though and something that the dems think others are going to miss or something.. i don't get that part.. the dems want to keep the focus on how trump was going after a 2020 rival but i think once anyone starts looking at this, they are going to see a lot more then they want to see.. mind you, maybe the usa media will be successful in guiding the narrative for the war party which on some level seem unhappy with trump.. i don't know that it is eroding trumps fan base though.. maybe.. but as b says - trump is a crook.. everyone knew this before he got in power.. however, he has slowed down the military agenda some relative to obama, which is really ironic.. i think it is because trump doesn't profit off the military industrial complex as he does other stuff.. either way they are all first class kleptomaniacs all vying for the front of the trough...

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2019 21:08 utc | 8

"Trump-Ukraine Whistleblower’s Legal Team Is Getting Death Threats: WSJ"

Banana Republic anyone?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-ukraine-whistleblowers-legal-team-is-getting-death-threats-wsj

I also heard the Lt. Col. who testified is also receiving death threats.

Am looking for links to verify same..

I still believe the rabbit is closest to the actual truth....

The "two party" system is a friggen joke, most work for their donors, and they're not part of the working class.

Posted by: ben | Nov 20 2019 21:18 utc | 9

The negotiations around the Ukraine issues were going slow. It was not clear to the negotiators what Trump actually wanted. Sondland said that at one point he called up Trump and asked an open questions: "What do you want from Ukraine?".

According to Sondland Trump responded: "I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing."

Trump is a crook. It is fair to presume that he wanted his aides to use all potential pressure points to deliver the desired results from the Ukrainians. But Trump is also a smart enough crook to never say that.

Is it possible that, just for once, Trump really did want nothing from Zelensky other than to find out what Joe Biden stood to gain from pressuring the Ukrainians to sack Viktor Shokin as Prosecutor General and what Hunter Biden's role as Board Director of a shell energy company in Ukraine really amounted to?

That Gordon Sondland and his fellow negotiators were flabbergasted that Trump did not tie money for military weapons to the Biden revelations, and that Sondland himself made the assumption that Trump would make the aid money conditional on what Ukraine could provide, might tell us more about the huckster mindset that prevails among the Washington political and bureaucratic elite than it does about Trump's own worldview and psycholoical make-up. Trump may be obsessed with making the Deal of the Century but the people surrounding him in the White House are obsessed with extracting as much blood out of a stone as they can.

Posted by: Jen | Nov 20 2019 21:22 utc | 10

James @ 8

If this ever gets to the Senate, a full trial will result, which will cause who knows how many skeletons fall out of various Democrat/"Resistance" closets.

What do you think the odds are that, just somehow, nothing goes to the Senate in the end?

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Nov 20 2019 21:30 utc | 11

@11 antionetta 111... good question.. i am not following it closely, but my impression is 60/40 odds at this time! maybe less..

a relevant (i think!) article from marach 2019 - US Embassy pressed Ukraine to drop probe of George Soros group during 2016 election

funny how soros name pops up in a number of places.. some have said he was an important person behind crystia freelands rise in power too..

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2019 21:37 utc | 12

Nothing goes to Senate, I bet, but also no indictments from Barr. How's that for a quid pro quo?

Posted by: casey | Nov 20 2019 21:54 utc | 13

Pompeo is rumored to resign soon..

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 20 2019 22:10 utc | 14

>Nothing goes to Senate, I bet, but also no indictments from Barr.
>How's that for a quid pro quo?
>Posted by: casey | Nov 20 2019 21:54 utc | 13

For a kleptocracy, that almost sounds like a reasonable resolution, so no, that can not be allowed. Trump is not being a team player, plus the retreat from northern Syria under fire from potatoes was an unforgivable humiliation. Someone must pay for that, even if it brings down the whole rotten house, a real possibility. Trump has how many millions of Twitter followers? If he ever calls them out to the street, even if only 1% respond, and they show up with guns...

Trump is unpredictable and dangerous. How does one disarm a drunk with a gun at a party? Very, very carefully. But brain-dead big-dick Dear Leaders don't do carefully. It's Obey Or Else.

Posted by: Trailer Trash | Nov 20 2019 22:21 utc | 15

4 Cont'd--

Related to D-Party motivations on not being troubled by hits made against Biden is what this Grayzone article reveals about Warren--the hybrid Obama/HRC clone--the DNC will make its candidate regardless.

Yes, if you listened to The Keiser Report I linked to @4, they did say several times that China wants Trump reelected!

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 20 2019 22:34 utc | 16

Well...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
Zero Hedge: US Relations With China Were Just Destroyed, And Nothing Will Ever Be The Same Again

When they passed the “Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019” by unanimous consent, the U.S. Senate essentially doused our relationship with China with kerosene and set it on fire. The following comes from Zero Hedge…

In a widely anticipated move, just after 6pm ET on Tuesday, the Senate unanimously passed a bipartisan bill, S.1838, showing support for pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong by requiring an annual review of whether the city is sufficiently autonomous from Beijing to justify its special trading status. In doing so, the Senate has delivered a warning to China against a violent suppression of the demonstrations, a stark contrast to President Donald Trump’s near-silence on the issue, the result of a behind the scenes agreement whereby China would allow the S&P to rise indefinitely as long as Trump kept his mouth shut.
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

=/ As Bloomberg notes, the House unanimously passed a similar bill last month, but slight differences mean both chambers still have to pass the same version before sending it to the president. /=

Sending it to the president, huh?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ //
[My own comment]

15 hours ago [near midnight last night] I said:

I think there is some possibility that the Chinese government will announce something rather drastic in about seven hours. All cargo ships and planes will turn around 180 and head back to China. Wal-Mart will close. Amazon will go dark.

It's possible.
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So... When the congressional fools send this unanimous bill(!) to Trump, will he sign it. If he does, does the US economy collapse instantly? If he doesn't do they impeach him?

Or... Does he not sign it, then they immediately override, then the economy collapses utterly while they are busy trying to impeach him?

What are they thinking???

Posted by: blues | Nov 20 2019 22:49 utc | 17

Regarding the possibility of a Senate trail, just look at the two major papers. They are pushing impeachment with all they have, including awarding sainthood to some who do not deserve it, e.g. Vindman. If the Beltway echo chamber has the desired affect, Shiff will keep things going.

This is from Saint Marie's statement:
“Supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do. It is also the smart thing to do. If Russia prevails and Ukraine falls to Russian dominion, we can expect to see other attempts by Russia to expand its territory and influence.”

In other words, trotting out the old Dominoes Theory, first it will be Ukraine, then Belarus, Poland, the Baltics. Oh the horror!

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Nov 20 2019 22:49 utc | 18

"It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this."

They likely don't. Something you always have to keep in mind about the establishment Democrats is that they'd MUCH rather have Trump reelected than Sanders elected. If this Russiagate/Ukrainegate/impeachment nonsense aids in preventing a Sanders nomination, then it's a success whether or not Trump is deposed.

Another thing one must keep in mind is that the Democrats have almost nothing to offer the American people. Their constituents are donors, military contractors, and banks. So anything that distracts from their own abysmal corruption and failures is also a success.

Posted by: Hopopop | Nov 20 2019 22:53 utc | 19

It is not in the US interest to have a foreign government *announce* investigations. That is a lie. It is simply Trump using US money and time for his political campaign, his personal interest. Again, a real investigation starts without poisoning public attitudes, and incidentally, not alerting the criminals. The particular cooperation needed is detailed in specific requests from the investigators (not a person with a vested interest,) to those of another country for certain documents relevant to actual charges. Asking another country to rig an investigation is not in the US interest. It is not even in US interest to ask for a fishing expedition. Furthermore, the President's personal lawyer most certainly has no role in a legitimate investigation, and Trump inserting him does not leave an evidentiary hole, it is prima facie improper procedures, aka misfeasance. Only people determined to excuse any crime whatsoever can utter or write such drivel.

The real charge is supposed to be that Trump is a traitor for not feeding guns to fascists. This is not true, just as it wasn't true that Clinton was a traitor. Decent people do not hold double standards for their political gods. I don't know whether you might sincerely doubt that campaign violations are a big enough crime to impeach a president. But...pretending there is no crime is contemptible. Further, there is absolutely no problem about using rigged prosecutions to overturn the people's choice, because Trump didn't win the election, he won a technicality.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 20 2019 22:59 utc | 20

@15 trailer trash... twitter could always unplug his twitter account... of course they only do that with legitimate voices.. trump is okay according to twitter head office - cia/nsa...

Posted by: james | Nov 20 2019 23:10 utc | 21

You can not make this up!

"DNA Test Reveals Hunter Biden Fathered Arkansas Child"
> https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dna-test-reveals-hunter-biden-fathered-arkansas-child

Hope there is some money left from the Ukraine-deal to help his child to survive decently.

Posted by: maningi | Nov 20 2019 23:19 utc | 22

Here is the real bombshell.
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/625831.html
KYIV. Nov 20 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Ukrainian members of parliament have demanded the presidents of Ukraine and the United States, Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump, investigate suspicions of the legalization of $7.4 billion by the “family” of ex-President Viktor Yanukovych through the American investment fund Franklin Templeton Investments, which they said has ties to the U.S. Democratic Party.

Posted by: jal | Nov 20 2019 23:42 utc | 23

Hopopop @ 19 posted;

"It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this."

"They likely don't. Something you always have to keep in mind about the establishment Democrats is that they'd MUCH rather have Trump reelected than Sanders elected. If this Russiagate/Ukrainegate/impeachment nonsense aids in preventing a Sanders nomination, then it's a success whether or not Trump is deposed."

Absolutely right on point..

Posted by: ben | Nov 20 2019 23:46 utc | 24

Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report is always on the money
'https://www.blackagendareport.com/freedom-rider-ukrainegate-farce

She explains that "The Democrats are hoping that Ukrainegate will succeed where Russiagate failed and they can win the presidency without helping their voters.

“This spectacle is a get out the vote effort that doubles as anti-Russian propaganda.”

In other words this is a battle to ensure that the Democratic Party does not do what it has done a couple of times before in history and become aligned with the people against the oligarchs.
The last to manage that were FDR in 1936 (though Huey Long didn't think so) and WJ Bryan in 1896. He came very close to winning in his challenge to the financiers, Wall St and the rich.
There is a real chance this year that Sanders will win the Primaries and in doing so break the hold that the corporate machines have over the Democratic Party.
To win Sanders will have, first of all, to win the support of the black voters who have become the most reliable and malleable vote bank in the party. This would break the hold of the Black Misleadership Class which exists to ensure that class politics do not develop. The great fear of the oligarchy and their paid agents in the black community is that voters will stop thinking in racial terms and start judging politicians by their policies. If that should happen, and 'Every Man become a King', the Few might as well emigrate to Brazil or Colombia, and take the political class, the media and the 'intelligentsia' with them.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2019 23:51 utc | 25

@19

Yes, you got it.

Posted by: Comrade Comradovitch | Nov 21 2019 0:11 utc | 26

The impeachment hearings will never touch the basic underlying fact that Obama/Biden Administration restarted the Cold War by supporting the Maidan Coup and greenlighting the seizing of the ethnic Russian Donbass region. The trench warfare there continues to this day. The same Corporate Democrats together with the Five-Eyes Intelligence Community have conducted a continuous campaign to defeat and then remove Donald Trump. But they are so incompetent that he is still in the White House but he is under pressure, all alone, frustrated and angry, with only his daughter and Kellyanne Conway for support.

Yesterday, the USS Carrier Abraham Lincoln entered Persian Gulf after 6 months nearby; Carrier Harry Truman is back at sea, ahead of relieving the Lincoln. US National Guard armored units deployed to eastern Syria to keep the oil. The September drone attack shows that Aramco's oil production facilities can be taken out at any time. A bad day and the global economy crashes.

The only conclusion is that the hatred between globalist oligarchs and nationalists is so deep and powerful that the consequences of a World War are ignored. The 2020 election is pointless. The Republic is dead. The Empire shutters from internal conflict. If the Battle of Carrhae replays once again, the war with Iran will force any survivors to retreat from the Middle East.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Nov 21 2019 0:13 utc | 27

Pelosi is driving this impeachment bus to a trial in the Senate next year at the height of the primaries. The goal is to keep Warren and Bernie locked up in the Senate chamber, giving Mayor Pete and Biden ( and maybe Bloomberg) a chance to gain ground and win some state races. The Democrats don't care if they lose to Trump. They will do anything to make sure a progressive doesn't win to protect their corporate paymasters.

Posted by: Renodino | Nov 21 2019 0:19 utc | 28

steven t Johnson @20, well said. Right from wrong needs refresh.

Posted by: George | Nov 21 2019 0:54 utc | 29

No problem about using rigged prosecutions to overturn the people's choice, because Trump didn't win the election, he won a technicality. by: steven t johnson @ 20 <=right on.. the swamp rats.. have no scruples ..

Ukrainian members of parliament have demanded theV. Zelensky and DJT investigate suspicions of the legalization of $7.4 billion by the “family” of ex-President Viktor Yanukovych through the American investment fund Franklin Templeton Investments, which they said has ties to the U.S. Democratic Party. by: jal @ 23 <= something Barr might be able to prosecute?

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2019 1:11 utc | 30

They will do anything to make sure a progressive doesn't win to protect their corporate paymasters.

Posted by: Renodino | Nov 21 2019 0:19 utc | 28

Yup, this whole circus is MENT to keep issues the American people really want discussed, off the MSM. As if they'd broach them anyway.

Posted by: ben | Nov 21 2019 1:13 utc | 31

P.S. Even if they succeeded in impeaching DJT, which they can't, the Trump regime is but the symptom, not the underlying disease.

The rot in the empire is total, and it permeates top to bottom....

Posted by: ben | Nov 21 2019 1:19 utc | 32

The corporate democrats running these hearings are going to be hoisted on their own petard if the republican side is allowed to subpoena witnesses of their own (Hunter Biden for instance). It seems like the primary role of the investigation, so far, is to advance the national security narrative that portrays Russia as the perpetual enemy of the US.

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 21 2019 1:23 utc | 33

It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this.

Of course they don't. The whole thing is a massive cover up. The idea is to bore the world on Ukraine, sacrifice Biden and prevent Giulani from digging deeper. There is so much dirt over Ukraine that just allowing a normal investigation would be suicide for the whole dems, not just Kerry/Biden/Hillary.

The same thing happened with Russia/Mueller. There was never an attempt to get Trump, just to distract from Fisa inquiries and the blatant Trump spying. The Durham investigation could crucify many from Brennan to Hillary to probably Obama.

Bore the world with b/s investigations, hope Trump doesn't have time to do his own homework. It will never work. Giulani has a ton of dirt to reveal if he wants. And in anycase Trump won last time by ignoring the mudfight and concentrating on slogans that showed he had listened to what voters are saying. Working class jobs and pay, and then every time a Dem calls for "protect the immigrants", Transwomen's rights, better universities or attack Trump's climate change record they lose a thousand votes.
Dem outrage at Trump is just the best thing for him to win marginal working class votes.

BTW - there seems to be this thing nowadays where you can't say the facts point one way without claiming to hate the victor. Trump is a crook. Assad is an evil person but. China is a dreadful place but.
Trump didn't go to Washington until 3 years ago. He is probably the most honest man in the state.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Nov 21 2019 1:25 utc | 34

swamp rat auditing is dangerous <=click here

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2019 1:28 utc | 35

"It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this."

Really, it's the Blue wing of the Quigley Party which, for obvious reasons, must run the anterior assault with passive assistance from the Red wing. Schiff's role was to do a better job of simulating substance, if the real stuff couldn't be found.

The RINOs need an optical rope-bridge, allowing them to embark on a principled/Constitutional and oh-so-difficult moral traverse that they can be seen reluctantly rising to for the benefit of taking the edge off incensed MAGAs. At this point, the plan of necessity is to weather the civil insurrection because Trump simply has to go.

Alas Schiff is not delivering much. Nonetheless I suspect that after trying everything and the kitchen sink to get Trump, reluctant Senators' own dirty (NSA) dossiers will play key roles. There has never been in the 70-year post WW2 era a more compulsory vote than this. All swan-divers will be well cared for.

Those who focus on MERIT and SUBSTANCE forget that the real kingmaker is PROCESS. Article 1 Section 3 requires only 'present' Senators need vote on conviction. Thus a lot of games can be played in the gap and particularly vulnerable RINOs might be allowed a form of sick-day (e.g. a 20-Senator panel of Dems & Repubs).

It is hard to imagine Trump surviving Mitch's Star Chamber after heaven and earth has been moved for three years to maneuver him to this point. The singular criticality of the Senate well only grows as Trump's re-election appears increasingly assured.

T=Of course the less plausible the Schiff findings, the more 'process gerrymandering' will be relied upon to carry the weight. Again, some level of civil unrest is unavoidable. However five more years of Trump is a nonstarter.

"Trump is a crook."

I'm confounded by the persisting refusal to draw a qualitative distinction between Trump and the system he's so clearly at odds with. Not a panacea of course. This is about power. But distinction enough to rationalize the Herculean efforts being expended to oust him.

Come on b, do the algebra! Something's lop-sided. Trump could save everyone a lot of trouble if he simply fell back into the arms of his confederates. Surely at a minimum there's a material schism in the elites. A schism means daylight in the Panopticon's ceiling. Why isn't this cheered more?

If Trump swims in crookedness, why does the entire impeachment process hinge on two ridiculously banal phone calls after over three years of FISA microscopy? Why, in the course of his 'mock-defense' has he been allowed to turn back the sheets on the existential levels of Ukraine corruption? Has the Deep State become masochistic in its old age?

And why hasn't the system found his price? Every crook has one. $50 billion would be a reasonable opening gambit. Does anyone still think this is some kind of false-dialectic kabuki? If it is, the stage managers deserve the world, or already have it. That, and an Oscar. Bravo!

Posted by: FSD | Nov 21 2019 1:33 utc | 36

Posted by: blues | Nov 20 2019 22:49 utc | 17

Re the unanimous vote by US Senate - “Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019”.

As you noted this seems to put Trump into a real bind re ongoing trade agreement soap opera with China. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

The American political establishment has made any trade deal with China more unlikely. Which probably removes a trade deal with China from Trump's list of accomplishments in the 2020 elections.
Thus the "Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019" would seem to be directed against Trump.

But how really desperate is Trump for a trade deal with China? In trying to re-industrialize the United States, maybe not so much.

And now he can blame the political establishment for American economic problems related to the lack of a China trade deal.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Nov 21 2019 1:37 utc | 37

Casey @ 13

I don't think this would work as Trump would reject the trade. He would love to see the Democrats' slime and corruption trotted out in public. Meanwhile he is basically immunized from anything that may come out of a Senate trial as he has already been trashed to a saturation point.

And, since after three years of this BS they still haven't come up with any real evidence against Trump, he would have little to worry about.

The Democrats have far more to lose than Trump; his attitude towards a Senate trial would likely be: "Bring it on. Make my day, assholes."

Antoinetta III

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Nov 21 2019 2:22 utc | 38

The idealization of Trump that pictures him as some kind of silver bullet that could penetrate the heart of corruption is a bizaare fantasy. It stands at odds with the reality of the man. A crook he is at the very least. But it is what the two Parties agree upon, the criminality in which they find common cause, that is the most horrifying thing.

From truthdig: House Democrats Hand Trump 'Authoritarian' Surveillance Powers. And RT reports that this includes a couple of remarkable dems, the idealistic newcomers we hear so much about. It will be a long time before we are rid of the succubus of blanket surveillance. The grotesque empire is to be held together at all cost.

Ralph Nader: We Have a Congress of Cowards

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 21 2019 2:36 utc | 39

Copeland @ 33 said; "It seems like the primary role of the investigation, so far, is to advance the national security narrative that portrays Russia as the perpetual enemy of the US."

Yes, it "seems" like it, because it is. The corporate empire needs enemies to keep the $ flowing.

Confrontation is much more profitable than peace...

Posted by: ben | Nov 21 2019 3:05 utc | 40

I love the title of Rick Wilson's book "Everything Trump Touches Dies". The man is completely beshitting the presidency and the USA brand. This is not to say it wasn't foul before he laid his tiny hands on it. He is a symptom as another commenter here points out of the failure of the system that produced him.

Impeachment will not solve the problem even though impeachment is fully justified on the basis of his illegal maneuvers in Ukraine. He should be removed from his command for looting Syria's oil, or for simply entering upon Syrian territory without being invited. Bush should be in prison for the Iraq war, for that matter. But he's another symptom.

The clear and present danger is Trump who has thrown a monkey wrench into the global system and disunited the nations. He's wrecked trade relations with China. He's exacerbated problems in the ME and assisted Israel in the further destruction of the Palestinian people. He's attempting to dismantle the lawful regulatory function of government and convert it to a lawless fascist fortress America with only contempt for international law. His ignorance of environmental problems is vast.

If this man is not removed from office this nation will die. Sooner than it would otherwise. It is already very sick. This spectacle of impeachment is a weak remedy. We have no alternative.

Posted by: jadan | Nov 21 2019 3:14 utc | 41

Trump is not a crook. He approached the situation with Z no doubt as he has been approached countless times by the Mob and the Cops in NYC. "Nice country you got here. It would be a shame if anything were to happen to it." If you sincerely believe Trump's denial of "quid pro quo" and his handwritten notes, you might be the only one on the planet. That will hardly save him from impeachment but not enough to get him tossed out (which I agree with others, is not the Dems objective). Remember too, this did not start with the Dems. And it's not some murky Deep State. I am surprised you have not focused on the obvious role of Bolton in all this. He's hiding behind Kupperman now, waiting for everybody to testify, then he will come out. He obviously has first hand info on all of this, and it's his cadre who have been leading the charge, and his allies who have been beating the war drums (V, Taylor, Kent, et al) with Russia. Finally, whatever the Biden boys were up to, Trump went full Tony Soprano. Not a good look for an empire in decline. It's a textbook example of the constitutional meaning of bribery.

Posted by: tintorelli | Nov 21 2019 3:29 utc | 42

@40 ben

Spot on, ben.

"Confrontation is much more profitable than peace..." must be the motto that holds the Washington consensus together.

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 21 2019 3:51 utc | 43

Tintorelli @42 jadan @41 .. removal from office, or replacement of, any POTUS will not fix the ailing USA, in fact if you threw out all of the persons in the entire government and started over, the present system of electing and appointing to office persons would force on Americans the same result, just different faces would be sitting in the plush government offices and drawing a salary gratis of the taxed public. The USA has transformed America into a very poor nation with a few really wealthy hot spots sprinkled about. Current conditions suggest a strong, glaring constitutional problem exists, that needs to be addressed, but there seems to be no way to address them.

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2019 4:14 utc | 44

Very solid take from Bee as usual...agree completely that this is another nothingburger...storm in a teacup..

But wow...what an unbelievable wall to wall diarrhea of stupid comments...all the idiots have come out of the woodwork en masse...

Tried to read through this dreck...but had to give up...

How do I get my 15 minutes back...?

Perhaps Bee is trying an experiment here...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 21 2019 4:40 utc | 45

As a friend of mine was reminding me today, "President Zelensky at least got a phone call, and poor Ghadaffi didn't get a call."

The Dem leadership has a lot to answer for itself. There is an insincerity at the heart of the spectacle they have created in the Congress. A hollowness in their expressions of outrage.

Posted by: Copeland | Nov 21 2019 4:42 utc | 46

Dear b,
I've been an avid reader of your blog for years and in the most recent posts I have sensed a change in your writing style. Are you using AI to support your work? Hope everything is ok on your side.

Posted by: blackfish | Nov 21 2019 4:43 utc | 47

Woot! Loving this stupid drama amounting to nothing while the empire unravels at the seams and rots from the core.

Posted by: sorghum | Nov 21 2019 6:02 utc | 48

There is as usual a convenient detail you omitted about Trump's response to Sondland in the September phone conversation. That call came AFTER Trump knew the whistleblower had blown his game. So of course Trump was going to deny everything. Yesterday, in the Iran article you also conveniently left out the most important fact about the Iran riots that was all over the Iranian press, namely, that the Trump Administration was already trying to exploit the gas price riots to the detriment of the Iranian government.

Why you do this is pretty transparent; you're trying to distance Trump from all responsibility for the shet he pulls! In other words you continuously whitewash him.

Well, at least you admit here he's a crook!

So you're telling us that just because Trump is conniving enough to use proxies like Giuliani and in the past Cohen to do his dirty work, there's no proof of his direction?

If someone commits a crime; that's one offense. But if someone uses a proxy to commit a crime; it's as if they committed two crimes. The ill intent is greater, because not only is the individual out to destroy his target, the victim, but he also ruins the proxy he uses to commit the crime for him.

So, even if his proxy doesn't give him up, and usually they do to get a deal, the circumstantial evidence is often too consistent, coordinated and unambiguous to deny.

Now, in the case of Cohen and the campaign finance violation, Cohen did too good a job covering Trump's fingerprints. However, if Trump's taxes are released, the proof of Trump's direct involvement might turn up there.

In this case, if Giuliani goes down for shady dealings with those two indicted Ukrainians he could get a deal delivering Trump on bribery and campaign finance violations.

However, for the impeachment hearing, the preponderance of circumstantial evidence of attempted bribery is overwhelming. Anyway, Trump got what he wanted without Zelensky's help. He managed to sideline Biden in the primary race with the Ukraine corruption issue.

Trump must not get a second term. The damage he's doing to Palestinians, to Iran, meddling in South America, in Lebanon, and his irresponsible inaction on climate change and stacking the judiciary with an unprecedented number of right-wing judges, all practically irreversible destructive moves are proof that he is a threat to the U.S. and worse to the planet and must be brought down.

You're a acting like an agent for the dark side.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 21 2019 6:20 utc | 49

I'm wondering what group it is that Trump is truly representing. He is without a doubt in the corner of the Israeli Zionists, but who is he fronting for that has the US oligarch so upset? That hasn't come out in 3 years, but is clearly the underlying issue: who is going to control the meth-addict, former US juggernaut.

Posted by: sorghum | Nov 21 2019 6:23 utc | 50

The only rational explanation for the dem hacks' "let's impeach the orange", stance can be that they actually believe Biden to be a viable contender (a belief that reveals how divorced from reality yer average dem hack is), consequently the dems have developed a strategy to make every voter on whichever side of the thinner than a sensitive condom, divide twixt dem & rethug, become so goddamn sick of the whole Ukraine corruption 'thing' that by the time the actual campaign is happening, most voters have closed their ears to anything Ukraine, including evidence that Biden is as bent as a butcher's hook.

Corollary with that is that alla this noise distracts from very real doubts about the true origin of the russiagate nonsense. If dems can somehow combine the festering and pus-ridden boil that is russiagate's roots with the equally suppurating pustule of Joe Biden's history of corrupt practises, they imagine themselves to be on a winner.

If correct, this is so sad, they have learned nothing from 2016, that no matter how many compliant media billionaires freaked at the inevitable tax the orange one inevitably hits them with MBS style, they will still get to pump out their lies to great effect, when ultimately this will be decided on the web, a space which even now, no one can claim to control.

If dems had just accepted their spanking back in '16, the party could have moved on to become a voice for millions - not what they are now, a voice for billion - aires.

Many of you may already know that I have zero faith in amerika's electoral system as a fair, even-handed system for passing political power on to the person who amerikans most want it to go to, but lately the system has become so corruptly incompetent that the only real question that can be answered is, "What is the method by which president d'la orange plans to use when he finally makes his move to separate the millions from their hard earned savings?

Trump has held back throughout his first term because he decided (most prolly outta vanity) to be a two-term prez & is gambling on going for enrichment in term 2. Fine, as suspected his greed knows no bounds, but WTF is his method?

Posted by: A User | Nov 21 2019 6:30 utc | 51

"It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this."

Half of them buy their own bullshit gleefully megaphoned by MSNBC et al, not to mention it benefits the media because it's good for ratings, and it keeps the current political crisis revolving around Trump and the politics of personality instead of the actual demands of the masses (healthcare, infrastructure, etc) while taking power away from their more recent, troublesome members. They see it as a win-win because they still haven't learned anything from 2016 and assume they will win back presidency so it can't come back to bite them. They'll continue to drag it out, and if Trump loses they can totally forget it then patronize us again with their typical "let's look forward not backward, it's time to be bipartisan" horseshit.

Posted by: anon | Nov 21 2019 8:14 utc | 52

This kind of horse trading goes on all the time, does it not? For example, when Pelosi threatened to blacklist any political consultants who worked with progressive challengers to incumbent Democrats, was that not exortion?

Posted by: TJ | Nov 21 2019 10:19 utc | 53

I appears the US can teach Ukraine a few tricks on corruption.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2019 10:31 utc | 54

@ Circe

It would be a fair assumption that nothing on the internet is what it appears. When it matters, it is controlled.

Internet like media is source of information and manipulation.

One cannot rely on any single source.

Everyone is lying much of the time.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2019 10:41 utc | 55

The Secretary of State failed to protect the President. Steve Pieczenic deems Pompeo dead man walking.

There is a good laugh or two here as Steve never minces words. His job on Bolt-on is good too if you are in the mood for some black humour and kneecapping.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 21 2019 11:07 utc | 56

A User #51

The DNC and its candidate selection charade is only about cash. They must propose Biden as he (and his type) brings in vast amounts of corporate cash to campaign with. The DNC machine is a TOTAL captive of money politics and just runs this churning operation putting up candidates that are exclusively suitable to the wealthy donors. That way the sweet jobs within the DNC are maintained. The gravy train mentality is absolute and no heresy will be tolerated.

Winning the presidency is a secondary performance indicator. Cash churn is the lead performance indicator. It is out of control.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Nov 21 2019 11:16 utc | 57

steven t johnson @ 20 says:

...just as it wasn't true that Clinton was a traitor

in a healthy society with a viable political process people like HRC wouldn't rise to the top. but in fact, there's the rub...when full-blown psychopaths like Hillary Clinton permeate our collective consciousness over decades the malignancy becomes seemingly compliant. i'm not going to digress into her long list of improprieties, or even cringe over her gun-running gambit, or even laugh about the anti-Islam video she linked to the 2012 Benghazi terror attack, but when a secretary of state, in her own words, admits that staunch allies like Qatar and Saudi Arabia are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIS, throughout the period when it grew and flourished, well steven, traitor certainly seems the appropriate moniker to me.

as an aside, sort of, i see that your girl Hillary recently flipped your puny affirmation on its head in an attempt to smear Tulsi Gabbard.

psychology 101.

Posted by: john | Nov 21 2019 11:17 utc | 58

@ vietnam vet / #27 / Battle of Carrhae

I had thought Salamis, but yours is fitter. Still, Salamis was as it was because of logistics, and intrigue - what we would call treasons or intel ops. And a land power v a sea-power.

I suppose everybody knows about it, but to remind us all, recall the outcome of wargame Millennium Challenge 2002 (MC02). US fleet was destroyed in 10 minutes.

Something like that would put considerable pressure on el presidente to, ah, take certain unfortunate actions, would it not?

Posted by: Walter | Nov 21 2019 12:00 utc | 59

This is not about bombshells or sensations, it is about uncovering suspected illegal actions on the part of the President. The fact that five of his closest advisers and associates have been convicted or pleaded guilty of felony crimes is a sign that there are grounds to investigate him.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Nov 21 2019 12:15 utc | 60

On a planet already in chaos and hurtling towards global war does impeaching a sitting US president – whatever one thinks of the person – make the world a safer place?
https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

Posted by: peter mcloughlin | Nov 21 2019 12:19 utc | 61

WMDs weapons of mass deceptions more dangerous than anarchy and weapons <=have a look

I included the following to make clear what is the above link is about..
@ Circe It would be a fair assumption that nothing on the internet is what it appears. When it matters, it is controlled. Internet like media is source of information and manipulation. One cannot rely on any single source. Everyone is lying much of the time. by: jared @ 55

Weapons of mass deception (WMDs)
Wireless weapons of mind control (WWMC_.

You will know when your government has begun to move in response to those that it governs when it:==>
1. quits spying on you
2. makes infecting UR computer with spyware, malware, and viri not only criminally illegal with 10 years automatic no early time release jail time but also makes actionable as a tort, victim recovery from the perpetrator Jury trials to establish damages.
3. amends the constitution to make it a life time in jail offence to conduct the affairs of government in secret or to classify any document as secret from anyone who is a citizen of America and is also a citizen of the Untied States of America.
4. has a budget for domestic needs at least 4x the size of the armament budget.
5. transitions power generation from grid to place of use and transitions from fossil fuel, nuclear fuel to solar and wind energy
6. gives free education and medical services at the highest level to all comers without regard to prior qualification.
7. recognizes all people of all race and all religion as one in the same person
8. puts news fakers and propagandist under the jail
9. admits pearl harbor, 9/11 and
10. allows the masses to determine not only the candidates for offices in the USA but also allows the masses to determine which candidate will serve the USA
11. allows any member of the governed masses to indite any sitting member of a government at any level, in the independent of the civil government, court of human rights, and allows that court of human rights to immediately remove the accused person from his or her position in government until a verdict can be rendered, and if that verdict is guilty, allows to and assist with enforcing the penalty assessed by the the human rights court for the human rights violation while in office or as a result of the power of the office.
12. makes it illegal to be a member of government at any level if that persons holds any citizenship but American and USA.

Posted by: snake | Nov 21 2019 13:02 utc | 62

@55 jared

Your response to me has nothing at all to do with what I wrote @49.

I want to add to my post. Giuliani was a proxy for Trump's lawless caper, but he was in fact the main executor of the plan. In fact Volker, Sondland, Mulvaney and Pimpeo and Pence assisted in the coercion-to-get-dirt-on-Biden-using-taxpayer-funds-for-bribery caper either by their participation or silence. Basically, they are all co-conspirators. That should stagger the mind as to the level of corruption.

The U.S. government didn't become corrupt overnight. It's been corrupt for decades i.e. generating fake revolutions, political meddling in other countries, reversing an election in Iran, installing despots, fabricating casus belli example Iraq, false flag public manipulation, supporting Israeli illegal occupation and military oppression for over 60 years, instigating proxy wars, now illegally taking hold of Syrian oil resources, bankrupting countries, global financial/economic manipulation/tyranny...and of course donestic corruption against its own citizenry. The list is long on U.S. corruption.

That's why Sanders is right in wanting to tear it all down and start over and Obama is wrong and should STFU AND RETIRE IN SHAME.

As I previously outlined, Trump is a threat domestically and globally for some of the reasons mentioned by me prior AND HE DESERVES TO BE TAKEN DOWN by this impeachment or whatever other crime he's succeeding in concealing because his second term will be much much worse. Stop defending this asshole here!!!

Posted by: Circe | Nov 21 2019 13:48 utc | 63

Once the hilariously televised collapse of the DC government is complete, true and verifiable self determination for the Lands and Peoples of America must be established. Once this is accomplished, Life can return and healing can begin.

Posted by: Josh | Nov 21 2019 13:50 utc | 64

My bet is that the impeachment circus was started by those Dems who want to get rid of Biden. So they start a circus where Biden's corruption case is a major issue. Moreover, this forces Trump to open the evidence against Biden already during the impeachment process, and not only after Biden winning the primaries.

Posted by: Max | Nov 21 2019 14:24 utc | 65

Great analysis as usual. My comment is on your last line:

“It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this.”

This is not necessarily about bringing Trump down via impeachment because though almost certain to be impeached, he is almost as certain to be acquited in the Senate where a 2/3 majority is needed and even if some GOP Senators vote for conviction joining all Dem Senators, reaching 67 is a tall order.

What then is all this about? It’s obviously about the 2020 election and not just the Presidency but the House and the 35 Senate seats (23 GOP and 12 Dem) up for grabs. This is for all the marbles. The Dems/anti-Trump GOP have a formidable base made up of the powerful coastal elites, establishment media and as importantly the so-called deep state in DC, the bureaucrats in the State Dept/CIA/FBI/DOJ and the courts to back them. The Dems are struggling to unify against a theme but the impeachment is one thing that’s a clear litmus test and what they will rally around in 2020.

That Trump will be impeached is a near certainty as much as that his conviction in the Senate will fail. Look for:
- How many Dem Reps vote for impeachment or if those in GOP states flip.
- If any GOP Reps flip to impeachment.
- If any GOP Senators support conviction (almost certainly there are 4 including Mitt Romney)

Meanwhile the GOP has tricks of its own and the upcoming FISA report due Dec 9 which apparently will in-effect accuse the Obama admin of 2016 election meddling will be taken up in the GOP controlled Senate.

Both these dramas will serve as the backdrop for the countdown to the 2020 election in less than 12 months on Nov 3, 2020.

Buckle up!

Posted by: Ludwig | Nov 21 2019 14:39 utc | 66

In the spirit of things on the internet not being quite what they seem I’ll go along with the notion Max and others put forth regarding multiple levels of sabotage and distraction. When we step back, curb emotional response and take a look some things become a bit more clear.

After the RussiaGate event why follow up with this? It only makes sense if both events are primarily to distract and to continue the divide and rule bipolar model which has been ramping up for quite some
time. Ever since the RF bucked the Econ Hitmen and vampires nonstop demonization has been the norm, so that purpose is well served in both cases. Additionally if you really wanted to impeach The Orange One there are other things you might choose with more traction. This chapter is designed to fail its “intended purpose”.

Which leads to the next point: why would a Dem Posse choose a post Maidan Ukraine as a showpiece.
The world knows the USA has staged multiple coups on this nation and the Biden’s, Pelosis , and others have dirt and a trail of evidence to prove it. So....why? This will likely sink Uncle Joes ship.

Posted by: Chevrus | Nov 21 2019 14:50 utc | 67

I think we're all agreed that the impeachment ploy is a circus. On the question of why do it then? I am of the opinion that it was hastily fomented in an effort to block the Barr investigation. I'm still hoping that will be the main event.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2019 14:55 utc | 68

Thanks for the Nader piece, Copland. I voted for him in 2000 and am still happy with my vote then. But Nader is obviously not in touch with current reality, sad to see but he has been a great and courageous advocate for the US citizenry and this article should not be held against him. Some of his statements are true to his convictions but as old advocates for justice often do, he is waning in clarity. God bless him, I am the same. We aren't fully in touch with the complexities that exist today but rather are better at comparing past realities. He is still a great example of dedication to principle.

Posted by: juliania | Nov 21 2019 15:00 utc | 69

@ 63, Circe

I was commenting regarding your comment to "B" -
"There is as usual a convenient detail you omitted about Trump's response to Sondland in the September phone conversation."

While reading the prose by "B", which I find excellent and the comments here which are generally very insightful and incredibly informative, I am bothered by the aspect of it that in spite of the very high quality I sense that it seems to have a persistent bias (to orthodoxy among other things).

It is necessary to take even this excellent dialog with a grain of salt. I am not so much responding to you specifically as thinking out-loud. When surrounded by liars (I don't mean this site, I mean the media and internet generally) how to discover the truth.

Along this line (but not directly related) imagine that this site has become significant and noticed.
That would mean it would be assigned one or more handlers to influence the commentary.
I would think that "B" would also have been approached regarding concerns that important people have, regarding the nature and content of dialog here. Just idle thoughts.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2019 15:22 utc | 70

peter mcloughlin @61:

... does impeaching a sitting US president ... make the world a safer place?

The world might be a smidgen more safe if we could impeach non sitting ones too.

Why not? Strip them of their perks and prerogatives if they haven't acted in the best interest of USA and the world (since we claim to lead the world)! The rehabilitation of GW Bush is outrageous.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 15:32 utc | 71

ralphieboy @60:

... five of his closest advisers and associates have been convicted or pleaded guilty of felony crimes

This is just a smear because the crimes of these guys had nothing to do with the office of President.

Manafort
He was likely set up and had no policy role. AFAIK, he has very little connection to Trump - but some connection to Roger Stone.

Roger Stone
Self-destructed by lying to Congress (and others) about his connections to Wikileaks. No impact on policy. His demise had nothing to do with Trump.

Flynn
He was likely set up because he told the world that the Obama Administration had made a "wilful decision" to support the rise of ISIS. That set-up came before the election. No affect on policy and Trump was not involved.

Cohen
As Trump's fixer he's closely connected to Trump but the Stormy Daniels fiasco had no connection to policy.

Papadopoulos
Fingered in the Russiagate nonsense, his "felony" was deceptiveness during an interview and that brought him 14 days in jail. Unlikely that he had any measurable affect on policy or close connection to Trump himself.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 16:08 utc | 72

Just watching "the hate Russia circus" on MSM. If DJT wasn't such a greedy MF, this circus wouldn't be going on.

Let's be clear, Russia, and every other nation on earth, has the absolute right to defend itself, and it's people,

from being exploited by the U$A's corporate empire. The empire's record over time is clear, if it wants something you have, they'll take it.

DJT has no problem following the empire's dictates, but when he deviates and pursues his own personal enrichment at the expense of the empire's overall goals, things like the D.C. circus ensues.

I'll say this again, Russia, and all countries on earth have the RIGHT to defend themselves from our latest empires attacks, no matter in what form they appear..

Posted by: ben | Nov 21 2019 16:31 utc | 73

Uncle T...thanks for that Pieczenik commentary

Nice and focused and succinct...love the Mao quote...

The higher the monkey climbs, the harder he will fall...

That describes Scumbag Pompeo in a nutshell...worth hearing this brief history of the lardass pathological climber...

I have said this before...Trump is still the best of what's on offer in the fake democracy of empire...

His opponents are hoisting themselves on their own petard...the more pathologically determined they get, the bigger the bomb exploding in their face...Wile E Coyote 101...

The simple fact as I see it is that Trump is basically alone, which is not surprising because who among the Washington creatures is going to agree with any of his sensible agenda...which most notably is to get out of Syria and Afghanistan...and 'get along' with Russia...

Regardless of anything else bad that he thinks is good...which includes enabling Israeli colonialism and other things...if he were able to actually pull off those agenda items it would be a very good step forward...

Now he has been tied up quite effectively by the opposition ['resistance'] but he's still managed to at least break open northeastern Syria for the government to return...a big plus...

As far as hopes to somehow take him down...that is delusional...he's a tough cookie who's dealt with much tougher customers than these half wits in Washington...

People forget that the POTUS has tremendous power, even all alone and stranded on an oval office island...he is not going to be brought down like Nixon...that era is over...plus he's not as dumb as poor Dickie...

At the same time, there will be no scumbags going to jail for the massive hoax of Russiagate and what amounts to a domestic color revolution attempt that they perpetrated on their own people...

The Trump plan is to simply remain in office, which almost certainly he will do, and then we may see Prometheus Unbound...

Posted by: flankerbandit | Nov 21 2019 16:38 utc | 74

ben | Nov 21 2019 16:31 utc | 73 (Rights)
and Flanker...about the Trump Plan...yeah, FDR figured it the same way, but of course you're right. Irving opines (and I agree) "they" got FDR. Since the pathway must avoid nukwar, there is only compromise and diplomacy. The failed republic cannot do that, alas. Maybe it will change.

Under the quaint and curious situation your claim is academic, but of course also true.

At the present time there can be no question of rights or justice except between equals in power.

This leaves three actors. C, R and A.

Posted by: Walter | Nov 21 2019 16:47 utc | 75

frances @ 1 has this right imho.

‘UkraineGate’ is potentially deathly to the Dems, so all / any issues are brandished..

I posted long ago. 2009. Hunter Biden and Christopher Heinz (John Kerry’s son) form an International Private Equity firm, Rosemont Seneca. Devon Archer was the ‘managing partner.’

I wrote it was perhaps ? money laundering (as gas. cos don’t have those kinds of sums on hand .. to bribe .. for what?) I didn’t know about Paul Pelosi at the time.

This is pure speculation, but it is beginning to look like the Obama Régime was engaged in financial transfers a coy way of putting it - ex. Aid to Ukraine (Russia 3x!) which was partly kicked back, through fronts like Burisma, to those who organised the aid in the first place! — Care of the US taxpayer of course.

The IMF was involved as well (in some role.. ?) Obiman delegated all that to Joe Biden and pretended to ignore it, imho he knew but distanced himself.

To the point. The blared MSM and social media discourse of Intl. Geo-politics was: Ukraine to join the EU, NATO, evil enemy Russia, a new age, are cover-ups and distractions for Mafia-style Mega-Finance World Moves, run by a narrow clique of ‘Capos.’

Following on (again, speculation ++, one angle only..), Yanukovitch for ex. was not dislodged by “Maidan,” a hapless victim of illegit-agit-prop, the usual régime-change actions instigated by the US, supposedly successful in this case, but fell foul of some corrupt plans/ppl, as he himself was corrupt. Ex. The story about how he suddenly realised that ‘joining the EU’ would be detrimental to Ukr. and he needed to keep ties with Russia was total BS right from day one.

An OK (mostly…) time-line of parts of Urk-gate:

https://johnsolomonreports.com/the-ukraine-scandal-timeline-democrats-and-their-media-allies-dont-want-america-to-see/

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 21 2019 16:57 utc | 76

@ 20 said "Further, there is absolutely no problem about using rigged prosecutions to overturn the people's choice, because Trump didn't win the election, he won a technicality."

Rubbish! Trump did not win on a technicality. He won by securing the needed number of Electoral votes just like every single President before him did. To even suggest such a silly idea shows ones partisan stripes NOT knowledge of how presidential elections are to be managed via the constitution. Period.

And just to remind you, conservatives back in 2008, when the dear one was elected, also dismissed the electoral vote as you do. They were wrong then just as you are wrong now.

Posted by: h | Nov 21 2019 16:57 utc | 77

@70

Jared, nicely composed comments. Yes, various non-MSM sites have referred to MoA's insightful analyses. I would compare this to MSM's devotion to Brown Moses / Bellingcat / Ellioit Higgins, who has somehow become an authorative figure for no discernable reason. I would be interested in observing Mr. Higgins' tax records vs. B's.

Posted by: Ant. | Nov 21 2019 17:07 utc | 78

@77

You do understand that all the Donald did was win the Republican nomination for POTUS? And ran against an arrogant bitch that made a number of horrible mistakes in her campaign, not the least was describing the citizens in non-blue fly-over states as simply Deplorable, and she had a 'private' vs 'public' opinion (in other words admitting she was a whore to whoever she thought was listening)... I won't bother to mention Benghazi or Serbia, Iraq...

The Anointed One buggered herself up.

What kind of democracy does the almighty US of A have? When you have a choice of one of two f*ckheads? Donald or Hilary? Are either what the US citizens want?

It's not unusual. The US might describe themselves as the greatest democracy the world has even seen, but I claim there is no such thing. I don't care what country you look at, the concept of 'democracy' only represents estabished power structures.

Some are more mendacious than others. Any propaganda aside, you only have see how they behave on the international stage, respect the rule of law, and you understand who the rogue states are.

It's not North Korea, it's not Iran.

Posted by: Ant. | Nov 21 2019 17:36 utc | 79

@76 I was just going to post a link to Solomon's Ukrainian Timeline. It's an outstanding piece filled with supporting documents that helps to bring greater focus to Ukraine and the Obama team. Bookmark it.

As for the line in b's post that 'Trump is a crook' is baseless innuendo. Did he swim in a pool of crooks and sharks while cutting real estate deals in dirty NYC and NJ? Of course he did. Only through such association can one tag him with being a 'crook' yet neither he nor his businesses have had any criminal charges brought forward during decades of doing business.

Also according to the Dem's own focus group data, Dem's aren't buying into their Party's impeachment circus - "Almost nobody in the groups said they are intentionally following impeachment news. Several are avoiding it. There was a great deal of ambivalence about impeachment and apparently more support for dropping it than pursuing it. The proceeding is seen [as] a dominating the Democrats' agenda. At least one person in each group could clearly articulate the charge against Trump and Ukraine. No one thought the charges were related to Russia...So, the question in their minds was whether the significance of this rises to the level of impeachment and whether this process will dominate the government's work. The inherent sense of corruption of all politicians allowed space for many to believe that what Trump did was commonplace, and ultimately several were ready to let Trump off the proverbial hook by characterizing the charges as "politics" without digging deeper to determine [if] of the charges were impeachable or not. Few called it a crime although some mentioned he abused his power."

So, if conservatives/republicans/independents and now democrats aren't buying into the fable then what's it really all about? This new info on Templeton, the DNC and the Atlantic Council has a lot to do with answering the why. Just like the roll out of RussiaGate, time will tell. Then, we had no idea how abused the entirety of the FISA system was. We have some facts at hand such as Collyer and Boasberg's reports, however, Horowitz's pending report is said to fill in the gaps. I'm hopeful the same process will unfold around Ukraine/Burisma/Bidens/Obama/Soros/The Atlantic Council/State and many more. The sun is only just now rising...

Posted by: h | Nov 21 2019 18:02 utc | 80

Aaron Mate's thread notes the long public acknowledgement of Ukrainian meddling:

"Ukrainian officials bragged about it in August 2016 {link at original] & then came to regret it after Trump won [link at original] It's fine if you reject Trump's Crowdstrike theory, but to deny Ukrainian meddling is to deny a documented fact."

Mate notes furthermore:

"What's also funny is that Ukraine's meddling is similar to what Russia is accused of: releasing dos [sic] that expose corruption in a presidential campaign. Ukraine's docs alleged that Manafort received secret payments. Russia is often accused of an 'act of war.' How about Ukraine?"

As I opined upthread, this circus is all about getting Warren the POTUS nomination, but this article notes she must be seen as radioactive despite her continuing attempts to portray herself as a frontstage populist, using the Clinton gambit of telling her Big Donors it's all an act behind closed doors.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2019 18:04 utc | 81

"The Anointed One buggered herself up." I couldn't agree more.

Posted by: h | Nov 21 2019 18:05 utc | 82

@ Ant

Spot on.

Rather than being amazed an appalled at behavior of the would be empire -
we chose sides and join the fray.

Consider that in the U.S. we (pretty much) literally have only two choices to select from for any elected position and
in many cases one of those choices is certain to fail (run as a formality). This is "democracy".

The "nation" is now overtly criminal on the international stage and this is now accepted behavior.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2019 18:14 utc | 83

Hang on. I;m still trying to figure out how exactly the Ukraine managed to influence the US presidential campaign.

Wasn't it Russia? That's what we've all been told, left right and centre, without a shred of evidence. Unless you uncritically believe Adam Schiff... or Fraudbook...

Now, what, it was Zelenski? Not Porky Poroshenko? Or Arseniy Yatsenyuik? Or Igor Koloimenski? Or Arseniy Avekov?

Whose money do you wish to believe?

Posted by: Ant. | Nov 21 2019 18:19 utc | 84

Elizabeth Warren’s Support for Bolivia Coup Consistent With Other Hawkish Foreign Policy Positions

The opposing positions of Warren and her primary opponent Bernie Sanders on Bolivia highlight an increasingly clear policy gap between the two Democratic frontrunners.

11-20-19

Massachusetts Senator and Democratic Presidential nomination frontrunner Elizabeth Warren endorsed the recent U.S. backed military coup d’état in Bolivia Monday. Warren’s statement carefully avoided using the word “coup,” and instead referred to the new government of Jeanine Añez as an “interim leadership,” effectively validating the new administration.

She stated that the Bolivian people “deserve free and fair elections, as soon as possible,” implying that the October 20 vote, won convincingly by President Evo Morales, was not clean, thus taking essentially the same position as the Trump administration, who made no secret of their relief that Morales was ousted.

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 21 2019 18:37 utc | 85

Elizabeth Warren’s Support for Bolivia Coup Consistent With Other Hawkish Foreign Policy Positions

The opposing positions of Warren and her primary opponent Bernie Sanders on Bolivia highlight an increasingly clear policy gap between the two Democratic frontrunners.

11-20-19

Massachusetts Senator and Democratic Presidential nomination frontrunner Elizabeth Warren endorsed the recent U.S. backed military coup d’état in Bolivia Monday. Warren’s statement carefully avoided using the word “coup,” and instead referred to the new government of Jeanine Añez as an “interim leadership,” effectively validating the new administration.

She stated that the Bolivian people “deserve free and fair elections, as soon as possible,” implying that the October 20 vote, won convincingly by President Evo Morales, was not clean, thus taking essentially the same position as the Trump administration, who made no secret of their relief that Morales was ousted.

Posted by: pogohere | Nov 21 2019 18:42 utc | 86

@Ant #84
The oligarch most known for pouring money into US politicians is Victor Pinchuk.
He's put money into the Clinton Global Initiative, paid for both Clintons' to speechify, supports Brookings and the Atlantic Council, has a full time registered lobbyist in Washington, etc.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 21 2019 18:52 utc | 87

And the lies just keep on rolling:

"A former top White House Russia expert testified Thursday that the 'fictional narrative' embraced by President Donald Trump that Ukraine meddled in the US elections was fabricated by Russia to wreak havoc in US politics."

So reports one of NATO's BigLie Media outlets. FYI, as I wrote in 2016, no outside nation needs to "wreak havoc in US politics" as there're numerous home grown domestic sources already doing that in an ongoing manner since the 1850s. Isn't it a felony to lie to Congress?

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2019 19:53 utc | 88

Yes, the Electoral College is a technicality. The only reason for defending it is because you hate the majority of the people and want a way to repress them.
Every defender of this stupidity---so stupid is created a constitutional crisis within a mere twelve years!---wants to use antique words to fight progress toward human equality.

The bred in the bone dishonesty of is revealed by the likes of Ant. who lies and pretends Clinton didn't win. She did. Pretending Trump was the genius who gamed the real election is eating the dingleberries off Trump's ass. As for "arrogant bitch?" Every woman who told Ant. that Ant. was even equal, much less superior, was an arrogant bitch, starting with Ant.'s mother. I have no idea why Ant. would dislike arrogant bitches. Ditto for h's moronic agreement.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 21 2019 20:48 utc | 89

And afterwards we drop into a quiet little place
And have a drink or two
And then I go and spoil it all
By saying something stupid like

Trump is a crook. It is fair to presume that he wanted his aides to use all potential pressure points to deliver the desired results from the Ukrainians. But Trump is also a smart enough crook to never say that.

Trump ain't a crook. You demean yourself by putting this paragraph into your work. If you still maintain Trump is a crook? Prove it. You just sound stupid when you write those words. Trump is no crook. He's the real deal.

Posted by: restlelss94110 | Nov 21 2019 21:03 utc | 90

lol at the clinton won horsecrap. she poured resources into california (including cheating sanders in california) instead of the medwestern states she lost. if she had run a smarter campaign she likely would have won. she was still an awful candidate, and neither choice deserved to win.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 21 2019 21:22 utc | 91

@89 writes - "Yes, the Electoral College is a technicality. The only reason for defending it is because you hate the majority of the people and want a way to repress them."

Rubbish, again! The Electoral College nor the process outlined in the constitution to elect a President isn't a 'technicality' it is the law. My opinion of whether it serves this country has nothing to do with this fact. Feel free to bang your head up against this wall as long as you wish but it won't change the law. Period.

And I will add that from the time I was in my early 20's until early 50's I was a supporter of Mrs. Clintons. I first met her when she was campaigning for Bill in Cincinnati. During the last week of the '92 campaign the two of them and their team barn stormed Midwest states and I'll never forget her hopping up on the back of a red pickup truck to deliver Bill's closing speech. She had to do it b/c the poor man's eyes were swollen shut while only being able to stand if someone held him up. I greatly admired her and did all I could to help her win the nomination in '08, which she did win btw.

But those years of her leadership at State changed all of that for me.

She lost. You nor I have the power to change those facts nor rewrite them to our liking.

And yeah, "The Anointed One buggered herself up." I couldn't agree more. I did not agree w/arrogant bitch. If I did I'd write it. Please don't attribute such a comment to me when I made no such claim.

Posted by: h | Nov 21 2019 22:03 utc | 92

@89 steven... i didn't reply to your first comment on that, but i happen to agree with ant and h... no need for calling anyone a bad name.. it is the way the system is presently designed.. if you are unhappy with it, you will have to find a way to change it.. trump won the same way everyone else wins in the presently designed usa system of voting.. your comment @20 "Trump didn't win the election, he won a technicality." is a canard.. i am surprised you want to fall back on it so strongly here..

Posted by: james | Nov 21 2019 22:30 utc | 93

restlelss94110 @90: ... Trump is a crook? Prove it.

This is what we know with a high degree of certainty:

Trump scammed thousands of people for tens of millions of dollars via Trump University.

Yes, Trump University Was a Massive Scam

Trump University: It’s Worse Than You Think

Trump used foreign scab labor to build Trump Tower and failed to fully pay them.

Trump Tower Got Its Start With Undocumented Foreign Workers

Donald Trump Paid $1.4 Million in a Dispute Over Undocumented Workers. Read the Newly Unsealed Legal Papers

Trump used his tax-free nonprofit to illegally benefit himself and his family.

NY AG Sues Trump for $8.4 Million for Misuse of Foundation

Trump agrees to shut down his charity amid allegations that he used it for personal and political benefit

=

This is what we have credible reason to believe:

Trump had his 'fixer' Cohen arrange for payments to Stormy Daniels that violated campaign laws
Cohen is now in jail. Trump has a history of paying off people after conducting himself improperly so its unlikely that he wasn't aware of what Cohen was up to.

Trump likely committed fraud when marketing Trump SOHO
In exchange for a payoff, the plaintiffs agreed not to cooperate with the Attorney Generals office.

Many believe that Trump knew, or should have known, of Epstein's pedophilia long before Trump claimed to have ended his friendship with the Epstein.

Trump Engaged in Suspect Tax Schemes as He Reaped Riches From His Father.

President Trump participated in dubious tax schemes during the 1990s, including instances of outright fraud, that greatly increased the fortune he received from his parents, an investigation by The New York Times has found.

... a tax bill of at least $550 million under the 55 percent tax rate then imposed on gifts and inheritances.... [was reduced to] $52.2 million, or about 5 percent, tax records show.

The Atlantic has complied a list of Trump Scandals - many of which constitute illegality but were hushed up with payments.

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 22:55 utc | 94

Hey jackrabbit @94 love how you left out the fact that Trump was the only individual to meet w/Virginia Guiffre's and et al's lawyers when he sent letters to all who, following the ruling in the Palm Beach case, were mentioned in depositions in the case. The lawyer even put on record that Trump sat with him for hours answering all of his questions and then went onto state, for the record, that Trump was the only individual to do so.

Oh, and all of those accusations you listed, which I'm confident there are plenty, plenty more, are just that, accusations. None have been proven nor factually supported by evidence.

Carry on...

Posted by: h | Nov 21 2019 23:18 utc | 95

How is it that Trump is under investigation for a nothingburger phone call and not ...

- lying to the American people about his intention to get out of the middle east?

- backing a coup in Venezuelan and stealing Venezuelan State assets (essentially an undeclared war)?

- militarizing space (another boondoggle for MIC)?

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 23:32 utc | 96

Answering @96

High crimes and misdemeanors that have bi-partisan and Deep State support are ignored.

Ukrainegate is a farce. TPTB are not going to remove Trump when Trump is doing exactly what they want him to do.

Empire First!

!!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 23:40 utc | 97

h @95

You can't seriously believe that Trump is completely innocent of all the accusations - many of which were hushed via payoffs.

Of course he tries to distance himself from any wrongdoing. But the fish rots from the head.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 23:44 utc | 98

Amid Impeachment Circus, Dems Sneak PATRIOT Act Renewal Past The American People

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 21 2019 23:55 utc | 99

JR, I don't have a clue what your background is but mine was in lobbying. Given the fact that my world then and now is all about facts, statistics, the law and more, I don't go about slinging accusations around to suit my purposes. I just don't. I deal in the world of facts.

Thus, to answer your question "You can't seriously believe that Trump is completely innocent of all the accusations - many of which were hushed via payoffs" my answer is unequivocally give me the facts and until you do so I choose, key word - choose, to enlighten myself but not take it as gospel.

Do know, that I am a huge Constitutionalist. I make no apologies for this b/c I fully believe that it is a most profound document that has kept this young country, some call experiment, in check. Yes, karlof1 I am a Patriot to answer your question of me from weeks ago.

But I digress.

Any can freely hurl around accusations to their delight but discernment is necessary so as not to have ones mind stray. My focus and only focus is on my country and right now all I see are the fangs of a (out of office) CIA regime change operation in progress against a rightfully elected President.

The bludgeoning of this one man must end for the health and wellbeing of our people our country. The insane circus happening in DC does not represent a scintilla of who we are as a people. Just like the citizens of so many damned countries our foreign policy deemed to be ripe for regime change. The blabber spewed by corporate media about their country or their countries leader is no different than what they are doing to our President. It's the same playbook.

And you are damned right I'd say the same if it were Obama, Hillary or whomever from the Left.

America is my home. From the time I was a wee tyke, I loved it. Freedom. Man who doesn't love freedom. And guess what, that freedom affords you, JR, the opportunity to hurl just about any daggone accusation you wish to hurl at Trump. But here's the thing we Americans take for granted...many, so many, in this beautiful world we live in don't get to hurl such accusations freely w/o serious, some deadly, consequences.

So, one may find the presidential electoral process a "technicality" but that degraded document in his/her eyes gives that individual the freedom to state his/her beliefs without consequence. And I happen to find that a beautiful thing. And I will fight for it with everything I have b/c I believe future generations of Americans deserve nothing less.

Way more of an answer you were likely seeking, JR, but yeah facts mean a lot to me.

Some day I may tell the story about Trump, Cohen and Arpaio...

Posted by: h | Nov 22 2019 0:33 utc | 100