Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 16, 2019

How The Win-Win-Win-Win Plan For Syria's Northeast Succeeds

The Syrian and Russian operations in the northeast of Syria are going well.


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Russian troops prevented attempts by Turkish supported Jihadis to attack Manbij. Russian and Syrian units have now also entered Ayn al-Arab/Kobani. Syrian government troops took control of the electricity producing dam in Tabqah and some units set up posts in Raqqa. Other units entered the Conoco and Al-Umar oil fields north of Abu Kahmal and east of Deir Ezzor. Some local tribe which profited from the oil explorations there held a small protest against the return of government control.


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The Turkish controlled Jihadis made little progress. Mostly Kurdish fighters are preventing them from expanding from the area they are informally allowed to hold. The Turkish command has called up more irregular 'rebel' troops including Jihadis from Jaish al-Islam who had once controlled Ghouta in the east of Damascus. They had been transported to Idleb after their defeat. A video shows them on a bus traveling through Turkey to reinforce the Turkish attack.

The Russian air force in Syria is preventing the use of the Turkish air-force in support of the Turkish attacks. Yesterday a Turkish F-16 entered Syrian air space but retreated when some Russian fighters appeared to hunt for it.

The U.S. is continuing its retreat from northeast Syria. Yesterday a video by a Russian journalist showed the inside of one of a camps that U.S. troops had hastily left. There was still food on the table and the Cokes in the fridge were still cold. The view was a bit embarrassing. Today the U.S. bombed a U.S./French military base in Kharab' Ashaq near the Lafarge cement factory shortly after its troops had left it. The likely intent was to prevent more embarrassing pictures.

Turkey still insists on a corridor of some 20 kilometers depth to prevent a PKK build up in the area near its border. At that depth Turkey would occupy the M4 highway which is a main economic corridor in the northern area. Under the Adana agreement from 1998 Turkey is allowed to make temporary incursions at the border up to a depth of 5 kilometer to fight any PKK concentration. Anything beyond that infringes on Syria's sovereignty and can not be tolerated.

Under the same treaty Syria is obligated to prevent any PKK camps or training areas in Syria. The U.S built 'Syrian Democratic Forces' are nothing but the PKK with a few drafted Arabs mixed in. The SNC will soon be dissolved into the Syrian Arab Army and the autonomous Kurdish administration will be removed. All that will alleviate the Turkish concerns and remove its justification for any occupation of Syrian land.

The mainstream borg is up in arms that Turkey uses Jihadis to attack their beloved anarcho-marxist PKK terrorists group. They have conveniently forgotten the history of the U.S. war on Syria, its arming of those Jihadis and its pampering of al-Qaeda.

The U.S. did not betray the Kurds any more than it betrayed Turkey and the Jihadis which the Obama administration armed throughout the war. Those were also U.S. 'allies' that were left hanging. Raina Khalek made a good video narrative that debunks much of the false Syria narrative the main stream media is now using.

To prevent Congress from putting harsh sanctions on Turkey, President Trump issued his own milder ones that will not do any harm to Turkey's economy. He has also sent Vice President Pence to talk with President Erdogan. It is just a bit of show to limit the fall out from the Turkish operation.

Everyone involved recognizes that this is a win-win-win-win situation. Erdogan could show that he was fighting against the PKK terrorists and prevented their attempts to become a proto-state. Trump could hold his campaign promise of removing U.S. troops from useless foreign interventions. Syria regained its northeast and the important economic resources of that area. Russia gained global prestige and additional influence in the Middle East.

Everyone is happy but the PKK Kurds. They are the biggest losers of this game but only in the sense that they are back to where they started. They had entered into a cooperation with the U.S. to eliminate ISIS. When that was done they got greedy and tried to rule over Arab land. It was always an unsustainable situation. After the defeat of ISIS the U.S. had no strategic reason to further pamper them. Only some wannabe imperialists in Washington DC and in Israel were urging to continue the relation.

There are signs that the series of events was preplanned and somewhat coordinated. There were intensive talks between Russia and Turkey and many phone calls between Trump and Erdogan. There were also talks we do not know about. Syrian and Russian troops were ready to enter the northeast.

It is likely that the plans of these actors extend beyond the northeast and include a solution for the Jihadi controlled Idleb governorate. It will be the next area where some surprising co-operations are likely to happen.

Added: This Trump answer to a question about Syria makes much sense.

Posted by b on October 16, 2019 at 17:47 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Erdogan agreed to a ceasefire te 'to let Kurdish forces withdraw'...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50091305

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 17:50 utc | 201

dh @201--

Thanks for posting that link as I was going to add to my 199 by showing how Trump's already playing to the home audience with this part of his tweet being exactly what I alluded to:

"Millions of lives will be saved!"

Well, no, not "millions," but as the US public will perceive it, the amount makes little difference, nor does the fact that the ceasefire is between US and Turkish troops thus begging the question: At what point were US and Turkish forces engaged in combat with each other requiring a ceasefire?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 17:57 utc | 202

@173 and @176
Simon de Montfort was commanding the Papal troops that Amalric, who I believe was the Papal Legate, was urging to wipe out the Cathars and everyone else. If I'm right so are both of you.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 17 2019 17:58 utc | 203

The Last American Vagabond reports that Pompeo is visiting Israel after Turkey........I don't see this widely reported in MSM. The website he referred to was Haaretz.

Posted by: anon2 | Oct 17 2019 18:06 utc | 204

@202 "At what point were US and Turkish forces engaged in combat with each other requiring a ceasefire?"

I don't think they were. I had assumed the fighting was between the Turks/FSA and the SDF....perhaps with some SAA involvement.

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 18:08 utc | 205

Senator Lindsey Graham holds a news conference on Turkey sanctions, including on Erdogan, and telling Turkey to withdraw from Syria here. Graham especially forecasts the re-emergence of ISIS, which is apparently a hint to the US intelligence community.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 18:09 utc | 206

I think one can say that Erdogan’s war aims have already been achieved, so can agree to stop, after agreement with Pompeo. Turkey has forced the US to pull out - thus removing the main pressure for Rojavan independence (Many, if not most, Rojavan Kurds don’t want independence, as unrealistic, but have allowed themselves to be convinced by a US wanting to break up Syria into little pieces). And secondly what the Rojavans have done, in seeking the alternative of cleaving to Damascus, is fine for Erdogan. Rojava will be an autonomous region of Syria, and Damascus will have control over it, rather less autonomous perhaps than KRG in Erbil. So Erdogan can agree to stop, if he wants to, and is wise.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 18:18 utc | 207

Hausmeister@189
'How does Bhadrakumar know this, how can he know this? ;-)... We only learn the wishful thinking of Bhadrakumar."

Apparently you missed it, B'mar referenced the position of the opposition party to back the government here.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 18:18 utc | 208

Lol, what a joke. The two losers agree on a ceasefire. Between them, or what?

Anyways, as long as it saves lives when these hucksters pull a face-saving stunt, who cares?

Posted by: Cemi | Oct 17 2019 18:20 utc | 209

Erdogan apparently has agreed to a cease-fire, of unknown length, probably in exchange for some unreported US financial benefit. We know how Syrian cease-fires often turn out. The US Congress, led by Senator Graham, apparently wants Turkey to withdraw, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 18:26 utc | 210

US and Turkey reach agreement to suspend military operation in Syria

Following a long meeting between Turkish and American top officials on Thursday, the two sides came to an agreement amid growing international and US opposition to the Turkish incursion in Syria.

Pence confirmed the agreement after the meeting on Thursday.

"Today the United States and Turkey have agreed to a ceasefire in Syria," he said.

The demarcation line of the safe zone would run roughly 20 miles south of the Turkish border, Pence said.

Trump welcomed the agreement on Thursday, writing on Twitter: "Great news out of Turkey… Millions of lives will be saved."

The safe zone would be primarily enforced by the Turkish military, and the two sides will increase their cooperation to implement the deal.

Once the military operation stops, Trump will lift the sanctions that he imposed on Turkey earlier this week.

Meaningless bluster from those two parties.

It is already agreed that the SAA will replace the Kurdish units on the broder. The Turks and their "Syrian rebels" mob will not attack the SAA. The only thing new is that the Turks will just halt their operations until that happened.

The U.S. is out of Syria and will stay out.

Posted by: b | Oct 17 2019 18:37 utc | 211

@209 cemi... i agree.. what a joke...
" Washington supports the Turkish idea of creating a “long-term” buffer zone within Syria’s territory. " no mention of syria deciding for the usa what will happen on the canadian-usa border, but apparently it is okay for usa-turkey to say what will happen within syria's territory! most people can see thru the shallowness of this talk...

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 18:39 utc | 212

The ceasefire looks like a clever move at first glance. Trump can use it to shut Lindsay Graham down (look no genocide) and Erdogan gets a sanitized 'safe zone'. We have to wait and see if the YPG actually withdraw or just melt quietly back into civilian life.

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 18:42 utc | 213

b | Oct 17 2019 18:37 utc | 211

"The safe zone would be primarily enforced by the Turkish military, and the two sides will increase their cooperation to implement the deal.“

What does that mean? The SAA allows Turkish military to enter Syria?


Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 18:43 utc | 214

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 18:26 utc | 210

If Erdogan has got "some unreported US financial benefit", he's done pretty well. What he wanted, plus cash as well!

The main aim for him, megalomaniac as he is, was preventing an independent Rojava from being a base for Kurdish resistance within Turkey. Kurds under Syrian control is not a

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 18:45 utc | 215

*Kurds under Syrian control is not an ideal solution, but it's about as good as you can get.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 18:47 utc | 216

@208 Don Bacon

He missed it because he didn't look. He didn't read the article, or click the link to the Turkish source provided in the article. He stayed true to form, and did a little trolling in-thread.

Thereby demonstrating his point that the truth is indeed hard to find, when you're determined not to find it.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 17 2019 19:01 utc | 217

A ceasefire is predictable as this was never an invasion so much as a reshuffle of the chessboard pieces. The main point was to send uncle Sam packing. But for the imperial city...only optics matter.

Posted by: Nemo | Oct 17 2019 19:02 utc | 218

from the BBC article about the US/Turkey deal
"All military operations will be paused for five days, and the US will help facilitate an "orderly withdrawal" of Kurdish-led troops from what Turkey has termed a "safe zone" on the border."

i.e. foreign djihadists' scalps will be cheap and any SF will be exfiltrated

Posted by: Mina | Oct 17 2019 19:06 utc | 219

Grieved | Oct 17 2019 19:01 utc | 217

No, I cannot accept to take the predictable role of the CHP as an argument that the public opinion there backs Erdogan. Turks are not that stupid. The „Turkish source“ is laughable. Like Pelosi is supported by the Washington Post. Hmmh, Pelosi has some influence, the „Grand Unity Party“ not. Opposition, baby, you kill me!

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 19:09 utc | 220

@184 Lozion

it does qualify for is a major defeat of the PNAC et al gang strategy for the big prize, Iran.

Without a Syria/Iraq bridgehead, having a few more thousand troops in KSA wont change the reality that Iran is safe from a US attack for a while.

It's not yet certain whether the PNAC prize is defeated. Iran is still very vulnerable and more so since Trump blew up the JCPOA.

The Iraq domino disappeared when W made the geopolitical blunder of invading a country where the subjugated majority are a denominational section of Islam common to the majority in Iran, therefore, existing allegiances were strengthened post Iraq War and continuing U.S. presence is unwelcome. Trump doesn't factor in this outcome.

As for the road from Damascus to Tehran to topple Iran. I think Russia with the help of Hezbollah and Iran have been instrumental in preventing that outcome, not Trump.

Nothing is certain as the Trump administration just negotiated a ceasefire settlement with Turkey conditional on YPG withdrawal from the 20 mile safe zone Turkey wants for resettlment of the anti-Assad Opposition. Question is: Are the Kurds going to comply with this demand?
They should not! This represents a breach of Syria's sovereignty.

Trump has no right to negotiate away Syrian territory with Erdogan and who is to occupy such territory!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 19:14 utc | 221

b | Oct 17 2019 18:37 utc | 211

"The safe zone would be primarily enforced by the Turkish military, and the two sides will increase their cooperation to implement the deal.“

What does that mean? The SAA allows Turkish military to enter Syria?


Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 18:43 utc | 214

It means that b once again overestimated Trump's intent. Pence stated they have always endorsed a SAFE ZONE. Should I believe Pence when he states the YPG have already agreed to withdraw from this area and are already withdrawing. Really???

There goes Assad's plan to ensure Syria's sovereignty...Wtf!

Trump and Erdogan are negotiating a ceasefire WITH SYRIAN SOVEREIGNTY AND WITHOUT ASSAD.

This is your trickster Trumpster!

Let's see what Putin has to say...

This stinks.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 19:32 utc | 222

IMO, the map Geroman produced here is the likely outcome until Turkish forces completely withdraw. This map directly above it on his Twitter page also explains a lot. Overall, I'd add many more items from Geroman's Twitter as it's currently highly informative!

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 19:34 utc | 223

@Laguerre

If you're not an imperialist, you should not use the term "Rojava". There is no such thing as "Rojava". There's Northeastern Syria, historically called Jazeera ("island"). The Kurds are a minority there, most of them arriving from Turkey a century ago (after helping Turks exterminate Armenians, then—surprise! surprise!—becoming their next target). It's not a "Kurdish region". That's a Western propaganda narrative. Kurds are a minority and oppress local population through their secret police Asayish, staffed with PKK Kurds from Qandil Mountains, Iraq (these Kurds having no relation to Syria whatsoever). There are two-and-a-half token "Arabs" in the administration to pretend that it's multi-ethnic, but it's not. It's an aggressive ethnocracy not much different from Israel.

The fact that so many people on the left continue to defend Kurds (I'm not talking about you) speaks of the complete intellectual degradation/infiltration of the Western left. They would probably support Hutus in the Rwandan genocide if only they wore red stars on their lapels.

Posted by: S | Oct 17 2019 19:35 utc | 224

S | Oct 17 2019 19:35 utc | 224

And now, to make the picture complete, deliver the same stuff about the "Turks" and the present situation within Turkey. Should be no problem, unless you reside there.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 19:41 utc | 225

New map update:

"Syrian army is fully controlling the borders from Syrian-Turkish border from the opposite site of Jarablus 'Zawr Maghar' village, till Kobane city."

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 19:45 utc | 226

S @224--

Exactly, and the second map I linked to @223 depicts those Kurdish areas, pockets really.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 19:48 utc | 227

from the BBC article about the US/Turkey deal
"All military operations will be paused for five days, and the US will help facilitate an "orderly withdrawal" of Kurdish-led troops from what Turkey has termed a "safe zone" on the border."

i.e. foreign djihadists' scalps will be cheap and any SF will be exfiltrated

Posted by: Mina | Oct 17 2019 19:06 utc | 219

I'm sure your interpretation is right, but the BBC report must be inexact. Most of the Kurds live within the 30 km zone from the border, so are unlikely to be abandoned.

'foreign djihadists' are Da'ish. Those who work with the Turks are al-Nusra types, mainly Syrians, I think. But I'm open to correction.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 19:51 utc | 228

@Hausmeister:
1) I'm not "delivering stuff", I'm telling the truth.
2) This thread is about Syria, not Turkey.
3) I will post what I want to post, not what you tell me to post.
4) If you have something to say, say it, instead of engaging in passive-aggressive snark.
5) Why are you so defensive all of a sudden? Did I hit a little too close to home?

Posted by: S | Oct 17 2019 19:57 utc | 229

About the FSA-fighters an excellent article, in German, but with a lot of references to French and English contributions:

https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Tuerkische-Proxy-Truppen-Das-uebelste-Gesindel-4559155.html?view=print

Helpful for „S“. As the Western governments know these people we may come to a revised opinion of "terrorists".

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 19:59 utc | 230

@224 S

And therefore the Northeast region should remain under SYRIAN SOVEREIGNTY! What business do Turkey or the U.S. have in repatriation within Syria when they did not fight the CIVIL WAR, but were there to either fight or help ISIS and other terrorists??? Only the Syrian Government, the Syrian people, Iran and Russia (to some degree) should be involved.
☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

OHHHH! Trump just stated Kurds are very happy with THE SOLUTION. Trump: Great day for the Kurds and civilization! It was an unconventional solution(?😉?)* Everyone's very happy; civilization is very happy! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

*The Turkish invasion was planned with Trump?😉😜

It's confirmed: he's certifiable

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 20:06 utc | 231

"Syrian army is fully controlling the borders from Syrian-Turkish border from the opposite site of Jarablus 'Zawr Maghar' village, till Kobane city."

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 19:45 utc | 226

Very long border; few Syrian troops. The border extends far east of Kobani. As far as I remember, the Syrian army is reduced to two effective divisions, the Tigers and the 4th armoured division. They're going to be very spread out. But that's not a problem, as long as the agreement holds. But a point to bear in mind.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 20:11 utc | 232

Although it may seem premature to do so, Magnier over the last 3 days has published a three part essay Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3--"Winners and Losers in the Turkish attack on the Kurds in Syria."

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 20:13 utc | 233

@226 karlof1

🤫sshhhhhh! Don't wake baby stable genius with that sobering news. He's dreaming everyone's happy! Turkey's happy, Kurds are happy, CIVILIZATION is happppy, yay!

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 20:16 utc | 234

Laguerre @232--

True, but it's not just the SAA:

"SAA, Russian MP deployed in Zawr Maghar, east of Jarablus."

Don't forget the Russians as it's their task to keep Turks and Syrians separated. That's why the recent shuttling of heavy transports between Latakia and Russia--bringing in more troops and their equipment.

Also, the ceasefire further allows SAA and Russian securing of the region. And when that's accomplished, it'll be Idlib's turn.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 20:24 utc | 235

I'd be rather surprised if the SAA wastes the Tiger Forces and the 4th Armored on hanging around watching the border after the area is secured. They could even use some Kurds for that kind of work, so long as they are adequately supervised.

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 17 2019 20:24 utc | 236

b @211: The U.S. is out of Syria and will stay out.

Well, they remain at al Tanf, and now there's this:

US Military Unlikely To Withdraw From Syria's Key Oil Fields: Report

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2019 20:31 utc | 237

I do not believe b's statement that Jaish al-Islam had been evacuated to Idleb is correct. To the best of my recollection, some 48,000 members of Jaish al-Islam and families and supporters were evacuated from Douma (in East Ghouta) and Eastern Qalamoun to Jarablus - not to Idleb - in April 2018. According to reports of the negotiations beforehand (and before the famous fabricated "chemical incident"), one of the stumbling blocks was that they did not want to go to Idleb, because of factional differences with HTS. And at first, Turkey refused the request to accept them in Jarablus (in Turkish occupied northern Syria). Then that changed. Jaish al-Islam shifted its loyalties from its previous Saudi sponsor to its new Turkish one.

Posted by: Norumbega | Oct 17 2019 20:37 utc | 238

I'll wait to read the Syrian and Kurdish response. Until then, everything is just presumptuous bullshet.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 20:43 utc | 239

Surprised nobody's posted this Trump tweet:

"About 500,000 human beings were killed in Syria while Barack Obama was president & leading for a 'political settlement' to that civil war. Media has been more outraged in the last 72 hours over our Syria policy than they were at any point during 7 years of slaughter."

Funny how the twitterbot Dr. Gu's right there to immediately respond with the usual CIA propaganda narrative putting the blame on Assad.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 20:43 utc | 240

the hostage taker and bullshitter from the shitty house

"They had to be 'cleaned' out"

....y'all feel safer now? y'all like that winning?

and do you ever ask who will be the next 'they' that need 'cleaning out'?

Posted by: Sabine | Oct 17 2019 20:48 utc | 241

Today French gov radio started speaking of Turkish crimes such as SOHR confirming use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in the attacks. I think the idea was to move the real targets from the camps and wherever they were, including as parts of the Turkish militias. Now they are moving targets.

Posted by: Mina | Oct 17 2019 20:52 utc | 242

"The joint declaration said Washington and Ankara would cooperate on handling Islamic State fighters and family members held in prisons and camps, a major international concern."
"Pence said that once the pause became permanent, Washington would go ahead with its own plans to withdraw its entire military force from northern Syria, which had partnered with the Kurds to fight against Islamic State."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-usa/turkey-agrees-with-u-s-to-pause-syria-assault-while-kurds-withdraw-idUSKBN1WW0Z7?il=0

Looks like Trump may be doing a deal to try and keep the oilfields.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 20:54 utc | 243

@ William Gruff | Oct 17 2019 20:24 utc | 236

That's an interesting point about the Kurds.
They will not be reliable, but for the short term.

Posted by: jared | Oct 17 2019 20:56 utc | 244

My review of what led up to Trump's Withdrawal of forces from North Syria:

Trump, Turkey and the Syria Kurds: What's Really Going On?

Highlights:

> Obama Administration had already made deals with Erdogan about giving up portions of north Syria to Turkey;

> Warming of USA-Turk ties in early summer 2018 (highlighted by USA support of Turkey's control of Idlib in August 2018) probably included Trump Administration agreement to let Turkey attack the Kurds starting in January 2019;

> Trump's sudden, shocking announcement of a 'pull out' from Syria in December 2018 was probably staged so as to draw criticism and rebuke that would lead to a delay in honoring the agreement with Turkey and with the hopes of re-negotiating the agreement;

> Israel attempted an end-run via its attack on Damascus airport - if SAA had downed a Syrian commercial airliner on Christmas 2018, all bet would be off as Trump would be forced to attack Syria; It's possible that Israel wasn't informed of Trump's plan with Turkey this time around(!);

> the renegotiation failed and Bolton probably had to leave because he advocated Trump's reneging on the agreement which would have destroyed US-Turk relations;

> Trump/USA did everything possible to maintain the preference for the Kurds and the strategy of strangling Syria economicly and will continue to do so; those who attack Trump for "betraying the Kurds" likely know this but find it politically advantageous to keep the pressure on Trump; Putin's "patient diplomacy" is an important factor but probably exaggerated by those who are pro-Putin because Erdogan is strongly Islamist and his core support comes from Islamists/nationalists.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2019 21:07 utc | 245

@237 Jackrabbit

Yep. U.S. forces are trying to prevent the SAA from helping the Kurds fight Turkey and from taking over their own oil fields. Imagine that? What international law gives the U.S. rights over Syrian resources?

us forces preventing SAA from helping Kurds fight Turkey

Trump's a bullshitter. Same ol' con.
Nothing new.

Posted by: Circe | Oct 17 2019 21:13 utc | 246

Ironically Trump's much-heralded Executive Order, Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Syria, for the "national emergency" in Syria was finally published in the Federal Register today here.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:14 utc | 247

on executive orders. . .
The talk about Syria oilfields reminds me of Bush in Iraq. Executive Order 13303 was issued on May 22, 2003 by United States President George W. Bush to protect the Development Fund for Iraq for the rebuilding of Iraq from any legal attachments or liens. The primary effect of EO 13303 [was] the legal protection of US oil companies. EO 13303 [was] part of a broader endeavor by the Bush administration to exert control over Iraqi oil revenues. wiki....That's back when they thought Iraq would be a slam-dunk.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:26 utc | 248

With troops repositioned, and Syrian oil fields possibly secured for a bit in the deal with Turkey, US attention will turn back to Iran.

https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-iran-backed-militias-deployed-090246349.html
"EXCLUSIVE-Iran-backed militias deployed snipers in Iraq protests - sources"

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 21:30 utc | 249

according to almasdarnews from earlier today...

Kurdish forces block Syrian Army, Russian military from entering Raqqa

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 21:34 utc | 250

Turkey agrees to ‘immediate’ 120-hour ceasefire in Syria, US Vice-President Mike Pence says

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:35 utc | 251

@237 jr.. it goes with your link, what i just posted.. really the usa is all about economic sanctions to screw over other countries... if they can't do that, they invade another country and make sure their demands are met... i can't see how this is going to work out in the short term..

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 21:37 utc | 252

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:26 utc | 248

Of course, the Iraqi oil law was voted against by the parliament, as I suppose you implied by your reference to executive orders.

The Syrian oil-fields are not an issue for the US, as their production is small, and offer nothing to US oil companies. The interest was financing the Kurds as an independent state, a question now dead.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 21:44 utc | 253

That was wise of Trump to get Vice President Pence (and not just Pompeo) firmly on board and committed regarding Syria, with an election coming up.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:44 utc | 254

@ laguerre
There was no Iraq parliament in May 2003.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:48 utc | 255

With the Trump Erdo deal, Trump may wll be using Erdo as the go between to keep the jihadis in eastern Deir Ezzor on side. Kurds say they are not pulling back and don't seem to have any say in the US Turk deal. Saudi's as well as Turkey will have some pull on the ISIS types that are or will wear SDF hats at the oil fields.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 21:55 utc | 256

@Hausmeister | Oct 17 2019 19:59 utc | 230

The Heise article is good, but none of that annuls any of the valid points made by S. All you are doing there is persisting in avoidance. Allow me to reward you with some additional homework to avoid:

The imperial narrative of Kurds being 1. anarchists and 2. emancipated, nay feminist is ridiculous in the face of the facts.

In the case of the supposed anarchism, the facts are in your face already: how many times have we been shown SDF groups toting huge banners of their leader Ocalan? That is one interesting brand of anarchism, with a personality cult centering on their "anarchist" leader... A little less obvious fact is that at least half of the Kurds living in Turkey do not support the PKK at all, but are devout followers of Erdogan and his reactionary islamist AKP. Also the Iraqi "Kurdistan", the fiefdom of the Barzani godfather clan can hardly be called anarchist or in any other way much enlightened.

As to the emancipatory tendencies of Kurds one needs only to consider the case of "honor killings", an age old tradition whereby females are mutilated and/or murdered for transgressions against the honor of their family/village/society. It is a very tribal Kurdish tradition (though not exclusively Kurdish) tying in to the strong support for the AKP by many Turkish Kurds.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 17 2019 21:56 utc | 257

Five days should give the SAA plenty of time to finish their deployment.

Reading around about the agreement, I don't think there is much agreement about what it means. If I had to guess, Trump and Erdogan are trying to con each other and they will both turn out to be chumps.

Russia and Syria are saying they do not approve. The Kurds are saying they like the cease fire but don't agree to the rest of it. Although some sites say they do, they will give up their guns and all.

But I thought they were part of the SAA now? Hmmm.

But everybody agrees the Turks can stop.

A tower of babble.

I don't think it's going to last the whole five days.

Posted by: Bemildred | Oct 17 2019 21:58 utc | 258

Presumably the SDF and local Arab tribes have controlled the oilfields since the Syrian government has been shut out. Does anybody know where the oil is sold and who handles the revenue?

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 21:59 utc | 259

S #224

Thank you for correcting Laguerre. The Kurdish fantasy of them only is a mirror of the apartheid nonsense practiced in Israel.

Kurds are Syrian people living in a dispersed multicultural society known as Syria.

There has never been exclusive Kurdish land, just the opportunity to build good neighborly relations and the Kurds failed. If they seek a Kurd enclave they could scurry off to Iraq and join their failed bretheren in the mountains.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 17 2019 22:00 utc | 260

dh
For a time Kurds (perhaps it was the ISIS element of SDF) were selling oil to Syrian government. US hit the tankers one time, I think when they were on barges crossing the Euphrates. Apart from that, there has been various reports both before and after that incident of fuel tankers heading across the Euphrates from east Deir Ezzor.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 22:07 utc | 261

@Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 20:11 utc | 232

Yet more slanted bullshit from you. The Syrian government has for many years held very long front lines along the areas occupied by jihadist terrorists. These were manned by both SAA and NDF.

Now that the "color revolution/regime change" operation has faltered and the terrorists have been chased out of most of Syria, plenty of troops are available man the borders. In fact, many Syrians from formerly jihadist-occupied areas have joined SAA and NDF.

Throughout the Syrian troubles, the Tiger forces and 4th mech div have always been used for offensive operations, never for maintaining lines.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 17 2019 22:07 utc | 262

@261 Thanks. I recall at one time ISIS was selling the oil to Turkey. Seems there's really only one customer in the region...Syria. I guess there are quite a few entrepreneurs who will be happy to move it if the US stays out of the mix.

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 22:13 utc | 263

Uncle Tungsten @ 260:

S @ 224 could have added that many areas in southeastern Turkey where Kurdish people currently live were inhabited by Armenian and Assyrian Orthodox Christian communities before 1915. Those Kurds who collaborated with the Ottoman Turks in driving the Christians away, guarding them during death marches or massacring them were rewarded with their houses and villages, and sometimes their young women. The downside of Ottoman Turkish generosity (and later nationalist Republican Turkish generosity) was that the Kurds, most of them being Sunni Muslim, were required to adopt Turkish nationality and to learn and speak Turkish at the expense of their original ethnicities and languages.

For all that, a Kurdish homeland was probably never going to be a viable state anyway. Landlocked with most of its rivers flowing out into neighbouring countries, mountainous and home to many "Kurdish" groups with their own histories, languages and dialects, and following quite different faiths, a Kurdistan for Kurds would be rent with ongoing conflicts and divisions. But that would have suited the purposes of their sponsors in the US.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 17 2019 22:17 utc | 264

i am always curious to hear from people who have a family connection to turkey.. i think there are a few posters here that do have connections to turkey.. i continue to talk with my turkish friend who lives in turkey and has a son in the armed forces.. my impression of him is that he has solidly drank the erdogan koolaid... however i imagine not all turkish people see it as erdogan presents it and with his play on nationalism.. erdogan and modi share a few things in common.. trump - not really, in spite of his maga lingo.. the one thing about erdogan is he has silenced turkish media.. you either tow the erdogan line, or you don't have a voice. he is a lot like a dictator in that regard..

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 22:27 utc | 265

e j magniers take from today...

Winners and Losers in the Turkish attack on the Kurds in Syria (part 3 of 3)

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 22:38 utc | 266

My understanding is that the oil was no longer being sold to Syria - hence the severe energy crisis in Syria (alleviated, for a time, by the delivery of oil by the Iranian oil tanker).

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

If Kurds won't fight with SAA against former SDF comrades (backed by USA), then what has SAA gained except the responsibility of patrolling a long border? SAA will have to chose: fight SDF for oil fields or fight for Idlib.

Has Turkey kicked USA out or kicked SAA in the shins (hobbling their ability to fight)? SNA can redeploy to Idlib while Turkey pins down thousands of SAA troops at the northeastern border.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 17 2019 22:39 utc | 267

dh
Likely there is plenty of places Deir Ezzor oil can go. Iraqi Kurds I think are selling oil to Turkey, so Syrian oil can be filters through to Turkey that way as well, though no doubt with the Iraqi Kurds taking a cut. Could most likely be filtered into Iraqi pipelines heading to the Persian gulf, though again somebody taking a cut. Those oilfields may be relatively small by world standards but I'm sure plenty of US companies would be happy to add them to their port folios if the oil could be piped through Turkey to the Med, or through Iraq to the gulf. Future plan I think is through Iraq.
Trump has said of Iraq "We should have taken the oil. Who knows, we may still get the chance"
When asked about Syria during the election campaign, Trump said "We should take the oil"
He has given speeches on Global Energy Dominance. I believe his vision for global energy dominance is a big part of Trump's plan for MAGA.
He has been happy to keep oil prices down, limiting expansion of fracking in the US, so the energy reserves required for energy dominance must come from outside the US.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 22:44 utc | 268

@james:

Not all Turks are like that, but Grey Wolves fascism has been and still is a "stronk" force in the hearts and minds of many Turks.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 17 2019 22:45 utc | 269

There was no Iraq parliament in May 2003.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 21:48 utc | 255

The vote was later. So what?

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 22:51 utc | 270

@268 Yes the Syrian oil fields are small by world standards but the important thing for the US is making sure the Syrian people can't use them. Probably some is sold in Iraq like you say.

Here is a look at US bases in Syria....at least 16 of them....

https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/47831/

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 22:51 utc | 271

I think this is the map to watch in relation to Trump moves.
https://theintercept.com/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/01/Shia-and-Oil-lg.jpg

dh, looking at the map of US bases, my guess is the deal with Turkey may well see US bases remaining in Hasakah province as well as what appears to be just the one base in Deir Ezzor province. In the last months there have been a lot of reports of US trucking convoys of equipment into Syria from Iraq. I suspect this will all be positioned to hold the oil fields.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 23:14 utc | 272

Now that the "color revolution/regime change" operation has faltered and the terrorists have been chased out of most of Syria, plenty of troops are available man the borders. In fact, many Syrians from formerly jihadist-occupied areas have joined SAA and NDF.

Throughout the Syrian troubles, the Tiger forces and 4th mech div have always been used for offensive operations, never for maintaining lines.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 17 2019 22:07 utc | 262

You're right in principle. Once the present operation is over there should be other Syrian troops available ready to hold the line. The line won't be contested.

I have some doubts. The Syrian army has been through quite a roasting in recent years. The offensive forces (Tiger + 4th) have come out well. The rest, the conscripts may be ready to defend their town, eg Homs, but may not be ready to defend Qamishli. Localism.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 17 2019 23:23 utc | 273

@ dh
Regarding the ISIS oil business, protected by the US (until Russia caught on), it's wiki to the rescue.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 17 2019 23:33 utc | 274

Really must agree with Geroman:

"The meltdown in the regime change and Syrian divider fan club is even more funny to watch tonight - after the agreement came out - as the evening Trump ordered US troops back home.
Love it!"

Now that night's fallen on Syria, most news sources have gone silent. All that remains to break the peace of a Thursday evening are the shrieks of BigLie Media talking heads as they wail and try to spin their gibberish. None will be able to say that something positive was accomplished because the diplomatic victory was won by those who are deemed undeserving of winning. Only the Outlaw US Empire is allowed to win is their blindered view. Well, they all just got a taste of how it feels to be on the zero end of Zero-sum; and although not physically dead, they just died by the sword but have no clue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 17 2019 23:37 utc | 275

@233 karlof1

That's a wonderful recap of the Syria situation by Magnier, a great piece on his part. Many thanks for the links. The 3-part essay serves as a very clear backgrounder on the centennial history of the Kurdish situation, and covers all the significant events that contributed and pertain to the present moment.

It's a very non-partisan and non-judgmental analysis, and actually a great article to give to any person who, regardless of current knowledge or belief, wanted to know the stark facts of this current campaign.

The 3 articles don't link to each other, so those 3 links again are:
Winners and Losers in the Turkish attack on Kurds in Syria Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 17 2019 23:46 utc | 276

@272 US trucking equipment into Syria translates as support for the SDF I guess. Which means the SDF will be less inclined to make a deal with Damascus. Which in turn means that Damascus will feel less inclined to protect the SDF from the Turks. There's no end to this equation.

@274 Thanks. Looks like ISIL is out of the oil business now anyway.

Posted by: dh | Oct 17 2019 23:48 utc | 277

The end approaches. The rift between Nationalists and Globalists has triggered an implosion of the Atlantic Alliance. There is no long-term planning. Only short-term looting. Both Capitols are consumed with Brexit and Impeachment.

The ceasefire between USA and Turkey is pointless. US troops have withdrawn from Northern Syria. They aren’t there to contest the merger of Kurd and Syrian army units. Together with Russian aerospace forces enforcing a no-fly zone, the Turkish incursion should be halted and driven back. USA can’t intervene without starting WWIII. Keeping the Syrian desert oil fields and blocking the Shiite Crescent with no allies is a no-win situation. Clearly Donald Trump has lost his minders. He wants out and instinctively knows that the siege of thousands of troops and contractors in the middle of nowhere by Syrian Arab Army and Shiite militias will end his Presidency. Also, someone is purposefully attacking oil tankers with missiles to provoke a war with Iran and/or raise oil prices. Saudis must make peace with the Houthis now or lose their oil income from further missile attacks. Israel must recognize that it has a non-nuclear mutually assured destruction balance of power with Hezbollah. If a war with Iran is ignited, it will collapse the global economy and destroy the Middle East.

America’s occupations are over. Either through peace settlements or forced ejection.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Oct 17 2019 23:51 utc | 278

@269 lurk... yes - grey wolves is an ongoing problem when they are pushing their weight in countries outside their own, especially syria where they have a track record of assisting erdogan in his ottoman dreams.. regarding my friend in turkey, i agree with him usa and west are the problem, but also that turkey is a problem too for different reasons.. he doesn't like to hear this or hold a more complicated view on it, as it disrupts the positive spin he has been given on erdogan..

Posted by: james | Oct 17 2019 23:52 utc | 279

It's essential, I believe, to stay tuned to the nutsy stuff out of Washington. A headline in yesterday's Washington Post: "The hasty U.S. pullback from Syria is a searing moment in America’s withdrawal from the Middle East" and then Liz Sly fills in the details that the Washington establishment craves to hear, as opposed to the truth. . .here.
It's a real pleasure to watch these squabs turning on the spit, and it's their own damned fault. "Russia and Iran stands by its allies but the US doesn't." Perhaps allies should be countries and not various bands of radical dissidents? Duh.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 18 2019 0:01 utc | 280

Don Bacon

I suspect the Russian version would read somewhat different to the wiki version and perhaps be more accurate. I remember one US news outlet showing the Russian bombing of one oil convoy as US bombing.
US starving ISIS of oil income was the same as Obama's bullshit about stopping ISIS propaganda, all the time leaving Amaq running on a platform hosted by US companies. With wordpress for years, and in the last months before Obama finished his term, with California based cloudflare.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 18 2019 0:05 utc | 281

@ Laguerre 270
The vote was later. So what?
To take the time to explain such a simple situation to you would be a waste of bandwidth.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 18 2019 0:07 utc | 282

@278 Couple of points...there is no ceasefire between USA and Turkey because there was never any shooting. The Turks have only agreed to a 120 day suspension of their campaign against the SDF. The merger of Kurd and Syrian troops looks pretty flimsy too. And I can't see Erdogan withdrawing Turkish forces until he has neutralized the YPG. US troops under siege at the oilfields is hard to imagine but I can see the odd rocket attack.

Posted by: dh | Oct 18 2019 0:11 utc | 283

All this talk about ISIS now -- let's take a look at some nuggets in the files.

The restrictions on attacking ISIS are US policy according to FoxNews--
U.S. military pilots carrying out the air war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria are voicing growing discontent over what they say are heavy-handed rules of engagement hindering them from striking targets. They blame a bureaucracy that does not allow for quick decision-making. One Navy F-18 pilot who has flown missions against ISIS voiced his frustration to Fox News, saying: "There were times I had groups of ISIS fighters in my sights, but couldn't get clearance to engage.”
Former US ambassador to the UN John Bolton lays out the real US policy at FoxNews
I think our objective should be a new Sunni state out of the western part of Iraq, the eastern part of Syria run by moderates or at least authoritarians who are not radical Islamists. What's left of the state of Iraq, as of right now, is simply a satellite of the Ayatollahs in Tehran. It's not anything we should try to aid.
Well duh -- that's what VP Biden said back in 2006 (above).
The Air Force can't destroy ISIS headquarters, but it can brag about its destruction prowess elsewhere.
-------------------------------------
West will facilitate rise of Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”
Astoundingly, the newly declassified report states that for “THE WEST, GULF COUNTRIES, AND TURKEY [WHO] SUPPORT THE [SYRIAN] OPPOSITION… THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF ESTABLISHING A DECLARED OR UNDECLARED SALAFIST PRINCIPALITY IN EASTERN SYRIA (HASAKA AND DER ZOR), AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME…”.The DIA report, formerly classified “SECRET//NOFORN” and dated August 12, 2012, was circulated widely among various government agencies, including CENTCOM, the CIA, FBI, DHS, NGA, State Dept., and many others.
Returning to more recent times with updated news, ISIS has taken the Anbar Province capital Ramadi as reported by the Daily Mail:
ISIS militants have held a twisted victory parade after taking the key city of Ramadi in an orgy of violence and beheadings - and the extremists could march on the Iraqi capital Baghdad within the next month.
Why no US air attacks on this open ISIS victory parade? Did they run out of bombs? Or are they complicit. Yes.

footnote: General Michael Flynn was the DIA Chief who issued that report. Latest news: - A federal judge on Tuesday set sentencing for Dec. 18 for President Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 18 2019 0:20 utc | 284

"They would probably support Hutus in the Rwandan genocide if only they wore red stars on their lapels." S@224
It's worse than that: they supported Kagame and the Tutsi invasion.

Posted by: bevin | Oct 18 2019 0:22 utc | 285

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 17 2019 20:54 utc | 243

why he would never! Right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7oT_wL1C84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Iog4KMza6I

Posted by: Sabine | Oct 18 2019 0:34 utc | 286

Don Bacon @284

Trump's "willful decision"?:

. . .

Turkey and USA have telegraphed the "news" that Turkey's attack on northeastern Syria will release the ISIS prisoners. It will accomplish little else as US was already restricting arms provided to the Kurds! And Kurdish antipathy toward the Turks will only increase.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2019 0:49 utc | 287

The ceasefire? If this means that Turkish forces are not going to advance for 120 hours (duration of ceasefire) then that gives the SAA five whole days to occupy north-east Syria. Erdogan gets what is best for him, the Syrian govt controlling the border. Trump gets out of Syria with the minimum of massacres. The big losers are the takfiris but who except corporate Democrats and some Republican fuckwits gives a toss about them?

God, are the corporate Democrats going to be pissed off when they realize they been comprehensively fucked over by Trump yet again. Nancy Pelosi will still look like an idiot.

BTW, there are reports that the SDF are blocking the SAA from entering Raqqa. I suspect that this is the non-YPG ex-jihadist part of the SDF that runs the Raqqa Military Council

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Oct 18 2019 0:50 utc | 288

Jen #264

Agreed with that. The peddlers of the myth of 'kurdstan' in Syria or Iraq is nothing more than a fabricated cover for USA belligerence, illegal occupation and crimes against humanity. Brigands is the word that springs to mind.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 18 2019 1:48 utc | 289

@277 -- re: "Looks like ISIL is out of the oil business now anyway."

"The U.S. Armed Forces are not withdrawing from the eastern Euphrates River Valley region of Deir Ezzor or its plethora of oil fields, a military source in Damascus told Al-Masdar News."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-military-unlikely-withdraw-syrias-key-oil-fields-report

Posted by: imo | Oct 18 2019 1:49 utc | 290

@290 Are you saying the US will hand the oilfields back to ISIS?

Posted by: dh | Oct 18 2019 1:59 utc | 291

James #279

Your Turkish friend is well aware that his communication with you is likely monitored by the Turkish intelligence and that you are likely monitored by the five eyes intelligence hub. Your friend is at huge risk of being sold out by both of these groups. Any one purveying information that is inconsistent with the narrative is listed. OK?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 18 2019 2:02 utc | 292

I updated my latest post (linked @245) to include this insight:

Erdogan must have known all along that USA+Kurds were only going to address his security concerns – not his desire to reverse Kurdish ethnic cleansing. But he accepted the delays and negotiations and pulled the trigger on an incursion when it suited him and USA.

And that timing was very convenient as it comes as SAA had positioned itself to retake Idlib. Moving thousands of troops to the border to oppose Turkey dilutes this effort. Meanwhile, SNA can move to reinforce Idlib and also supplement the non-Kurdish elements of the SDF that guard the oil fields.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next several days.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 18 2019 2:39 utc | 293

@ 292 uncle t... i met him in 2012 in sinop, turkey... at the time he was an under cover cop! i think he works for turkey intel anyway... i am not saying anything all that significant, although i did share that headchopper video joe shared earlier and asked him who it was in the video and he said - usa-israel people! so, i doubt he is a risk, and i don't think i am a risk either, but maybe i don't know that much!

@293 jackrabbit.. that is a bit of my concern here too for the next few weeks.. we'll see how this unfolds... ultimately i believe erdogan is working with russia now, but i could be wrong as erdogan is one two faced slippery politician and actor as i see it..

Posted by: james | Oct 18 2019 2:50 utc | 294

dh
The brand name ISIS needs to be looked at as just that. A brand name pushed by media marketing and product management entities. A continuation and upgraded version of the freedom fighters of Afghanistan. The product name can be freedom fighters, al Qaeda, ISIS or SDF, but all products are used for the same purpose.
Marketing of the ISIS brand name was exceptional, Its own news site cited by MSM, well produced snuff videos played on you tube... I guess something was needed to excite a western population jaded and apathetic due to constant war.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 18 2019 3:03 utc | 295

james 294

Thanks for that take from your friend in Turkey.
Makes sense as the destruction of Syria is a US Israeli op. Also allows for the thought that with Turkeys move towards Russia, Turkey's moves in feeding these people back into Syria is aimed at their destruction.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 18 2019 3:14 utc | 296

@don 284
Do you have a source? Thnks a lot

Posted by: Y | Oct 18 2019 3:25 utc | 297

Posted by: Y | Oct 18 2019 3:25 utc | 297

Do a little basic research. A good starting point.
https://www.judicialwatch.org

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 18 2019 3:36 utc | 298

Lurk | Oct 17 2019 21:56 utc | 257

Thanks for serving icy cold rotten coffee. That Öcalan is a kind of symbol for many Kurds, including those who reject the PKK, is a fact. Does not mean much. Why it is not forbidden to show a picture of the head-chopper supporter Erdogan has not found an explanation yet.

I do not claim that „the Kurds“ are a monolithic bloc. Of course some of them support Erdogan, others are extreme backwards. Not religious, as islamism is the ultimate cursing of god. But to cite killings of honour in the frame of talking about the YPG is bullshit demagogy as you know well.

Whatever, these developments give an idea how easy a sustainable role model solution for these conflicts can be. Turkey gives to the Kurds what it claims for the Cypriots that are ethnic Turks - and vice versa. Problem remains what to do with those who came to Cyprus after the illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 18 2019 9:49 utc | 299

Hausmeister | Oct 18 2019 9:49 utc | 299

Thanks for serving icy cold rotten coffee.

I was not forbidding anyone from submitting to a personality cult, only pointing out that rallying around a deified leader is wildly incompatible with claims of purported anarchism. Likewise, the traditional culture of many Kurds is quite the opposite of feminism.

You and laguerre seem to think that only flowers grow from Kurdish arses. So I dumped a Kurd turd in your coffee, the taste of which you suddenly do not appreciate anymore. I did not even mention the number of IS members of Kurdish etnicity, so there.

Your "easy and sustainable" solution, based on Turkey allowing Kurds a place of their own could be fine if that place would entirely be in Turkey. The Turks have no rights whatsoever to infringe on Syrian sovereignty.

Posted by: Lurk | Oct 18 2019 10:30 utc | 300

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