Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 07, 2019

Syria - Trump Gives A Green Light For Another Turkish Invasion

This morning U.S. President Donald Trump has a little surprise for the Kurds in Syria:

Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.
...
Turkey will now be responsible for all ISIS fighters in the area captured over the past two years in the wake of the defeat of the territorial “Caliphate” by the United States.

This actually is not a surprise. Trump had tried several times to remove the U.S. from Syria and was only held back by the borg. Last December then Secretary of Defense James Mattis resigned when Trump ordered the troops to leave Syria. I do not expect anything similar to happen now.

Turkey long wanted to move into the Syrian border area east of the Euphrates. It sees the YPG resistance group, with whom the U.S. allied to go after ISIS, as a threat to its country. That view is justified.


bigger

Erdogan wants to take a 30 kilometer deep strip including the M4 highway which runs west to east in that area.

But the border area Erdogan marked is quite populated with some 850,000 people living there. Most of them are Kurds.


bigger

Turkey wants to replace those Kurds with the Syrian mob that it armed and supported against the Syrian government troops. These people and their families currently live in Turkey. To move them into north Syria would be one of the largest ethnic cleansing operation the world has seen in recent times.

A saying goes "The Kurds have no friends but the mountains." But there are no mountains in Syria's north east. While the YPG might want to fight off a Turkish invasion they have little chance to succeed. The land is flat and the YPG forces only have light arms.

There is only one solution for them. They will have to call up the Syrian government and ask it to come back into the north east. That would remove the Turkish concerns and would likely prevent further Turkish moves.

The second part of Trump's statement, that Turkey will take responsibility for imprisoned ISIS fighters and families, can not be taken seriously. Those camps are far beyond the border zone Erdogan seeks.


Source: ISW - bigger

It was long predicted that the Kurds would become the biggest losers of the war on Syria. They already lost Afrin in the north west to a Turkish invasion.  Will they again resist the need to submit to the central government and repeat that mistake? One would hope that they are smarter than that but I would not bet on it.

Posted by b on October 7, 2019 at 14:33 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 8 2019 17:28 utc | 179

Hey you sound like Erdogan talking about Turkish identity robbed by Germany :-))

Fact is that Kurdish people did vote for Erdogan and may vote for him again. Identity is a complex issue but main rule is that people should be able to choose for themselves.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 8 2019 20:48 utc | 201

@ donkeytale 195

I have always been concerned that Putin is too close to Netanyahu, but apart from that remember Putin chucked out first the worst oligarchs, then the hedge funds out of Russia, for which he will never be forgiven (Browder, etc). Why did he do that if he is, as you argue, part of the group of fellow fascists?

The bulk of the Syria War has been won. Now the immensely complex geostrategic interests are in play. It is quite clear that Western financial power (which is the real power) cannot penetrate Russia and China, which they desperately need in order to survive.

So there will be this and that in Syria in the proxy war between USA and Russia/China. How many times has Erdogan threatened everything only to sort of back down?

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 8 2019 20:49 utc | 202

BM | Oct 8 2019 14:37 utc | 173

Thanks for that...
Probably the best summary of current events so far

Posted by: xLemming | Oct 8 2019 21:06 utc | 203

FSD @186

You just explained exactly how they complement each other. The crazy critics and the apologists feed off each other.

faux populist Obama had the same. In fact, Trump was a big supporter of the Birthers.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2019 21:23 utc | 204

Mischi @ 184:

"... [E]thnic diversity is never a strength to any country. It's a major issue in many countries which cannot form stable governments and a major cause of civil wars throughout history and the world ..."

You'll have to explain how the Roman empire and its successor Byzantine empire existed for so long, given that both empires ruled hundreds of ethnic groups throughout their combined history of some 1,480 years. Likewise for the various empires that have governed the territory of modern Iran over the past 2,500 years, all of which ruled peoples of varied ethnicities and languages. The Ottomans also ruled a plethora of ethnic and religious groups for nearly 470 years but only in the last 100 years of their rule were they forced to deal with various ethnic groups wanting independence.

You'll also have to explain how Somalia and Somaliland came to exist, given that Somaliland used to be part of Somalia until it declared its independence and broke away. Before the separation the ethnic composition of Somalia was very close to 100% Somali, and after the separation both Somalia and Somaliland are still close to 100% Somali in ethnic composition.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 8 2019 21:26 utc | 205

video
General Thomas:
how the Syrian Democratic Forces got their name
https://twitter.com/i/status/1181519415705255940

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 8 2019 21:28 utc | 206

I would love to have Carl Rove's statements on this matter.

"We are empire now and we create situations, and while you are judiciously studying these,
we will create something new...."

It seems Trump has mastered the creation of new situations that keep everyone on their toes.

However, the present reactions from the Borg show that US politicians are all warmongers.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 8 2019 21:33 utc | 207

Another aspect to consider: is Trump's Syrian pull-out/pull-back propaganda related, in some part, to the Iraqi demonstrations? 1) to pretend that we have no part; 2) to set-up a humanitarian intervention?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2019 21:33 utc | 208

@ 208

Another aspect to consider is that you are going quietly crazy

Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 8 2019 21:40 utc | 209

invasion update
https://twitter.com/TRTWorldNow/status/1181625260233383937

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 8 2019 21:44 utc | 210

I guess the subject is nut@yahoo.

Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Oct 8 2019 21:55 utc | 211


Marwa Osman
@Marwa__Osman

(Contains Video 30seconds)
https://twitter.com/marwa__osman/status/1181453395577753600?s=21

Syrian President Bashar Assad warned the #SDF many times👇🏻

"The US will not protect you
The US will not safeguard you in their hearts or their laps,
The US will put you in their pockets so as to become a bartering tool along with their dollars which they began doing,
(1/2)
If you will not prepare yourselves to defend your country then you will become slaves for the Ottomans,
No one will protect you except your country,
No one will defend you except the Syrian Arab Army."
(2/2)

Posted by: MadMax2 | Oct 8 2019 22:02 utc | 212

Lochearn @209

When we are betrayed, they shrug and call it "politics as usual".

When we anticipate betrayal, they call us crazy.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2019 22:11 utc | 213

@Jen, so you have to go back hundreds if not thousands of years to find a model of a diverse society that works. Spewing platitutes like 'diversity is our strength' will not prove your point. The fact is, those societies were quite authoritarian, and if order was required to be restored, many deaths were a byproduct. Is this the model our newly diverse societies are expected to follow? I think it may be necessary because from what I've seen, once the foreign elements reach a certain percentage of society, ethnic tensions start to flare. It's how we are hardwired as humans, and also as animals. Nothing the government does can change that apart from implanting electronic devices in our brains.

Posted by: Mischi | Oct 8 2019 22:14 utc | 214

@212 Ah yes the SDF has a decision to make. Just to complicate things further I am throwing the Syrian National Army into the mix. They will be joining Turkey to fight the PKK/YPG.....

https://youtu.be/kNkaH7rFgLI

Posted by: dh | Oct 8 2019 22:19 utc | 215

Mischi @214--

The are several rather diverse and very successful societies/polities on the planet you have avoided mentioning--Russia and China--and when you take a close look at the actual ingredients of most humans on the planet, they are all extremely diverse--most every human qualifies as a MUTT. If fact, I bet you're a mutt too, just like myself.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2019 22:25 utc | 216

Mischi @ 214:

Up until the 1800s, Muslims were a minority in the Ottoman empire. Ottoman rulers themselves were a minority elite with regard to language, ethnicity and religion. They ruled over subjects of whom most were Orthodox Christians belonging to different ethnically based Orthodox Christian churches with their own languages. There were large Jewish minorities living under the Ottomans as well. As far as I know, all the different religious groups governed themselves with their own laws, customs and traditions

Posted by: Jen | Oct 8 2019 22:46 utc | 217

dh @215

Yeah, SNA is the newest re-formulation.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 8 2019 22:49 utc | 218

Mischi @ 214:

There was a problem with my earlier comment @ 217 so I'll repeat it again.

Up until the 1800s, Muslims were a minority in the Ottoman empire. Ottoman rulers themselves were a minority elite with regard to language, ethnicity and religion. They ruled over subjects of whom most were Orthodox Christians belonging to different ethnically based Orthodox Christian churches with their own languages. There were large Jewish minorities living under the Ottomans as well. As far as I know, all the different religious groups governed themselves with their own laws, customs and traditions under the millet system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet_(Ottoman_Empire)

You have yet to explain why Somalia, a country with nearly 100% ethnic, linguistic and religious homogeneity, split into two countries (Somalia and Somaliland), both with nearly 100% ethnic, linguistic and religious homogeneity, in 1991.

My style is not to spout platitudes as you claim, my style is to present you with facts and invite you to address and explain them.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 8 2019 22:51 utc | 219

@218 Remnants of the TFSA and the FSA (remember Azad Shabo?) and largely comprised of Kurds. So they will be fighting the YPG. This could get messy.

Posted by: dh | Oct 8 2019 23:40 utc | 220

Somali split is about oil and offshore gas reserves. Much boots to be had, easy clan division to exploit. See KSA for historical means of plunder.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 9 2019 0:06 utc | 221

Much booty to be had.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 9 2019 0:07 utc | 222

The invasion has begun--in Raqqa by Daesh!:

"A large Daesh network has been activated in Raqqa and they are actively engaging SDF checkpoints and positions. There are clashes in multiple areas of the city."

And additional reports on thread at link. What was it that I quoted Juan Cole saying upthread? Good thing that bridge's completed so the SAA can finally do their job on the east side of the Euphrates.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 9 2019 0:09 utc | 223

"Up until the 1800s, Muslims were a minority in the Ottoman empire"

Posted by: Jen | Oct 8 2019 22:51 utc | 219

That sounds to me perhaps true but misleading. The Balkan conquests were mainly Christian, but Anatolia and the Near Eastern provinces were heavily Muslim majority by the 19th century. It would be like saying the British empire was minority Christian at the same time (because of all the Indians). It might be true but not a useful statement. The Hindus or Muslims had no say.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 9 2019 0:18 utc | 224

Re: ISIS news from karlof1 @223

So the SDF are digging out their old black balaclavas and jumpsuits now that the US troops are leaving? I'm so surprised!

Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 9 2019 0:55 utc | 225

Lochearn #209 re Jackrabbit #208, I am at home among people who are slightly crazy :)

At least the 'slightly crazy' are more informative than people that are definitely straight and I am NOT pointing at you. I tend to believe that humans who blindly go along with or accept the dominant paradigm are simply lazy and unwilling to exercise their brain muscle on a regular basis.

Viva zafado!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 9 2019 1:06 utc | 226

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2019 19:49 utc | 192

Juan Cole is an authentic liberal war hawk. He was a cheer leader for the “Assad must go” crowd.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Oct 9 2019 1:07 utc | 227

William Gruff @225--

Yeah, that's why SAA needs to get there and finish the job. We both know Daesh won't be eradicated until all foreign forces have vacated Syria and the SAA's in control throughout.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 9 2019 1:09 utc | 228

Thanks for that karlof1 #223, but can we be certain from that post that the clash is not an uprising against the SDF by the Syrian populace of Raqqa who are tired of Yankees and their running dogs pushing them around? This is definitely the bast chance for Syria to assert its legitimate governance over that province of Syria.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Oct 9 2019 1:13 utc | 229

There is skepticism about the information karlof1 linked about Raqqa. We should wait to see if this is just a PR campaign. (I'm sure the SAA and the Russians are paying attention). By the way, I believe I saw the Russians quoted as saying they had seen no American 'withdrawal' as of yet.

I personally think Trump is angling for money from Europe - 'if you care so much about Syria then show me the green'.

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 9 2019 1:21 utc | 230

Raqqa (like many other cities) is mostly destroyed, largely uninhabitable. The US Marines burned out a 155 gun barrel firing into Raqqa, and there were air attacks. . .photos here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 9 2019 1:33 utc | 231

@212 MadMax2

Thanks for that Marwa Osman tweet - I don't read her enough but it's always a great pleasure.

Her re-post of Dr. Assad's warning advice to the Kurds about trusting the US is a welcome reminder of the magnanimous heart of the state of Syria. We used to take it as a given that our country was the one that would take care of us. In some other parts of the world than the west, this is still true.

Dr. Assad's message reminds me that in fact this situation in Syria will be resolved by the big people with real power and force on the ground. And already is being resolved, is well in hand, is my guess, and we'll see how it all takes shape with real boots.

Everything else is smoke, bluster and the gibbering of idle mouths.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 9 2019 2:54 utc | 232

229 %230--

There were additional reports of unidentified aircraft flying in the immediate vicinity, so the reported explosions might have been ordinance dropped by them and not VBIEDs. And of course it was all at night. It's close to daybreak there now, so we ought to get better info soon. But again, the Turks show no signs despite the words printed in Turkish media.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 9 2019 3:31 utc | 233

Jen | Oct 8 2019 22:51 utc | 219

You are right. But in Near East you will harvest a lot of enemies if you discuss these things, though are trivial for everybody with a basic knowledge of history. In Turkey there is even a special law to prohibit all such discussions.

Mischi | Oct 8 2019 22:14 utc | 214
"The fact is, those societies were quite authoritarian,.."
Yes and no. Fact is that these societes today are quite authoritarian. And that the young generation is fed up with exactly this situation. Identity is a personal thing and should not be enforced by any state falsifying history.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 9 2019 6:40 utc | 234

Putin is allied with fellow fascists Trump, Erdo, Nutty and MbS .. by: donkeytale @ 195
How many times has Erdogan threatened everything only to sort of back down? by: Lochearn @ 202

Mazlum Abdi, The Commander in Chief of the SDF, said "We are considering a partnership with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, with the aim of fighting against the Turkish forces." by: Elora Danan @ 196, 198

Syrian President Bashar Assad warned the #SDF many times
"The US will not protect you
The US will not safeguard you in their hearts or their laps,
The US will put you in their pockets so as to become a bartering tool along with their dollars which they began doing,
(1/2)
If you will not prepare yourselves to defend your country then you will become slaves for the Ottomans,
No one will protect you except your country,
No one will defend you except the Syrian Arab Army." (2/2) by: MadMax2 @ 212

Dr. Assad's message reminds me that in fact this situation in Syria will be resolved by the big people with real power and force on the ground. Grieved @ 232..

<=I agree it is the intent of the privately owned multinational market financed companies, the central bankers and their oligarchs to impose external force and financial power against Assad led Syrian sovereignty. ..but tribes in Yemen have shown when the common bond is strong, the leaders are truthful, and the need to prevail is focused, the result can overcome all external assault including high tech WMDs. The result of Putin intentions in Syria are about to be revealed.

Posted by: snake | Oct 9 2019 9:10 utc | 235

The Untold Story of Christian Zionism’s Rise to Power in American has undermined American sovereign interest. Its a disease which has infected the entire of the government and the military..
I want to add to your link link by: Marti @ 236
the very interesting CD=> Christian zionism: the Tragedy and The Turning (the Cause of our conflicts. by www.WHITT.org.
on the front of the CD it says "WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS ..." copyright 2010..

Posted by: snake | Oct 9 2019 9:18 utc | 236

snake | Oct 9 2019 9:18 utc | 241

Thanks for that...

Unfortunately the URL is not quite right. It should be www.WHTT.org (minus the I)

Posted by: xLemming | Oct 9 2019 12:20 utc | 237

Pulled out this comment from the PL blog. Apocalyptic vision...
"The Turkish parliament has just extended their version of an AUMF for Syria and Iraq until 30 October 2020. That is plenty of time for Erdogan to try and reconstitute some of the vilayets of Aleppo and even Mosul in time for the centenary of the Ottoman Parliament's declaration of the National Pact early next year. Note the map in the wiki, this is the irredentism much in vogue with the neo-Ottoman crowd.

My guess is the neocons would rather see Turkey advance right down to the Euphrates than allow Assad to regain control. It will be very interesting to see what happens when the SAA try to cross the river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misak-ı_Millî"

Posted by: Mina | Oct 9 2019 12:30 utc | 238

Posted by: Hausmeister | Oct 9 2019 6:40 utc | 238

Because Kemal Ata Türk created a modern state by force. Erdogan is a huge improvement on military dictatorship.

Edogan's Islamism used to be able to reverse some of the suppression of local identities, but he can go only so far. Most people in Turkey prefer the modern state.

Local nationalism has been used by the imperial powers to detonate the Osman empire (which had used deportation to create a balance of ethnicities). Splitting Yugoslavia has been the last experiment.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 9 2019 12:57 utc | 239

I'll go a bit further than BM and say the whole charade is a contrivance to do two things: 1, Force the Kurds to negotiate with Damascus; and 2, provide a face-saving method for Trump to remove his illegally deployed troops.
...
Will tomorrow see the non-invasion invasion become an invasion
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 8 2019 19:49 utc | 193

It's looking a bit like some of these crappy Kung Fu movies where the action suddenly goes into slow motion during the implausible gymnastic jumps! I agree entirely about (1) and (2) above.

The British SAS are reportedly being forced to consider a hasty withdrawal because of the US (alleged) withdrawal, but might be waiting to see whether Trump gets his way or not.

Also according to PressTV (8th) the Turks have started to move heavy blocks in the wall in preparation for the invasion. The Kurds are thinking about opening discussions with either the Syrian government or the Russians - wary of the Turkish invasion but apparently oblivious to any sense of hurry.

Meanwhile the bridge-building over the Euphrates is forecast to be completed by the end of October, leaving enough time for some negotiations still - so I think the enforced slow-motion replay will linguer for a while, while the full-motion video is being quietly fixed behind the scenes through negotiations and diplomacy.

It would be perfectly plausible that the ISIS attack in Raqqa might have been organised by US warhawks in desperation to try to reverse Trump, but I don't think that particular effort will have muich effect.

I stand by my original post above.

Posted by: BM | Oct 9 2019 13:32 utc | 240

Appologies that I seem to have messed up the end of the "Syrian Kurds hint at talks" link - which should have ended with the bold, but which got merged instead with the link to my post at 173 (the last word "above" only). Apart from that both links look useable.

Posted by: BM | Oct 9 2019 13:40 utc | 241

Above:
It's looking a bit like some of these crappy Kung Fu movies where the action suddenly goes into slow motion during the implausible gymnastic jumps!

If America vacates the area and especially the border area for certain we, as a self administration and as the SDF, will be forced to study all the available options,” Badran Jia Kurd told Reuters news agency on Tuesday.

“At that time we may hold talks with Damascus or the Russian side to fill the void or block the Turkish attack, so this may develop and there could be meetings and contacts in case of a vacuum,” he added.

It's looking quite kaffkaesque, isn't it? The Kurds evidently really do need to be given a very hard push into talking to the Syrian government and the Russians. The US pullout is going to have to be a reality on the ground first, before they will even start talking. Maybe the corrupt and dim-witted SDF leaders don't care how many SDF fighters have to die fighting the Turks in between a decision to initiate talks -> difficult progress and compromises on the Kurd side -> militarily implementing results of the talks. The Turks, for their part, are evidently going to have to get the invasion's feet wet in order to complete the deal, after which they can promptly "agree to withdraw to the Turkish border".

Posted by: BM | Oct 9 2019 14:04 utc | 242

Operation Peace Spring has started already:
SDF: Areas between Ras al-Ayn to Tel Abyad are being subjected to indiscriminate shelling by Turkish artillery and airstrikes

Posted by: Yul | Oct 9 2019 14:18 utc | 243


@204 Jackrabbit

“You just explained exactly how they complement each other. The crazy critics and the apologists feed off each other.”

Are you a semiotician Jackrabbit? You seem to be suggesting there are two reality simulations, each at war with the other, and each showing only a passing regard for the physical trough they both feed from.

Perhaps better to say, in the spirit of hyperrealism, that they feed beside each other. In Umberto Eco’s notion of hyperreality, reality is something to be set on the table and consumed. Each side sets before itself the plate it wishes to consume: Trump is bad. Trump is good. Reality is constructed by desire.

How is the original salad bar best evoked before it gets picked through to assemble these two diametric plates? Few people possess either the attention span or the appetite to devour the entire bar, if that's even possible. POV is like the toilet paper that traipses out behind you, affixed to your heel. You may want to disavow it. But there it is. It's also fascinating how two plates assembled from the same salad bar (a very 'complex' bar) can look entirely different, and yet thoroughly satiate the diners.

The Continental post-modernists and cultural theorists can cart you off to a simulacrum of insanity if you let them, even to the point of doubting your own existence, which has its merits in different forums, just not in politics. Can we agree something is really happening independent of the narrators’ desires? If so, what in your words, is this Third Narrative? At the moment, being a Trump 'apologist' possesses the most explanatory power, imo. After all, American dereliction has a lot to apologize for. We've allowed a Deep State to metastasize for decades into the omnipresent Borg it is today. Now it's 2019 and there's this 73-year-old dude giving it everything he has (risking personal fortune, life and liberty) for what may be a fait accompli.

Of course we must continually weigh and sift until a more fulsome explanation arrives.

If you assess the authenticity of the threat Trump poses to numerous power centers by the ferocity of the multidirectional attacks perpetrated against him daily from, it gets you to 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' postulation. I cheer anyone who provokes that level of unrelenting consternation within what B like to call 'the borg'. Sometimes it pays to befriend those for whom you feel no natural wellspring of affection. Just as its a flawed analogy to presume 'friendships' between nations as opposed to aligned interests, Trump's mannerisms and 'poor user interface' can be unduly labored over. The Bernaysian forces of Managed Consent have done an exceptional job of locking half of the country's citizens in their solipsistic bubbles of personal aversion. This leaves the world's real operations to the Masters of the Universe. Try to argue wit a TDSer. Invariably they end in 'I hate Trump!' So it's a doomed tautology enforced by an unprecedented and one-sided media assault

The Neocon's apoplexy over what amounts to the relocation of a handful of American soldiers is in part contrived hysteria that plays to the only game in town at the moment: Impeachment. Where Trump reflexively goes sideways on war, Pence won't, nor will any other political shill in Washington. Trump is the last person the MIC wants in the Oval Office, and yet they're stuck with him, most likely for another four years, unless they can undo him via other means. Trump's obstinacy (in the face of last year's 68-22 bipartisan Senate rebuke for having the temerity to want the kids home from Afghanistan and Syria) is a portrait in courage, or at least NYC chutzpah. JFK died for a lot less, Gd forbid.

America has never quite seen the circus it's going to get if impeachment goes forward. We could have Schiff, Giuliani, Brennan, even Obama in the witness chair, if the Trump team manages to expand the trial scope back to the Russia-collusion hoax (and 'coup') predicates. Will McConnell allow that?

The ambivalence of McConnell's role is widely misunderstood. He and his wife are dirty as hell on China, and he's pledged to the US Chamber of Commerce. Mitch would do anything to return to the Uniparty's Managed Decline arc where America's prosperity and industrial base resumes being arbitraged away without political class interference. That's been a highly lucrative arc to ride since 1973, even more so since China's 2001 WTO acceptance, greased by Slick Willie himself.

Unfortunately, what's good for Wall Street and multinationals has been ruinous for middle America. Half the country instinctively, if not intellectually, understands this arc. They've watched their parents live it. After all, household incomes peaked in America in 1973. Moreover the arc has been slow enough to comport with the boiling frog paradigm. Try explaining it for instance to the median aged American born in 1986 who arrived 'mid-arc'.

So this is the shoe I've been waiting to see drop for awhile. As I've mentioned before, when Rosenstein/Mueller were afraid Trump would shut down the IC, they preemptively punted the Michael Cohen branch to SDNY, in effect preserving an independent line of inquiry.

SDNY wasted no time jack-booting Cohen's office door down and grabbing numerous files, a treasure trove no doubt. What would compel these gestapo tactics? After all, you have essentially a bunch of attorneys vaporizing the venerable attorney-client privilege (causing irreparable long-term harm to the ABA guild).

There's a rumor lots of guilty people keep compromising files with their personal attorneys fully confident in that impregnable privilege. Oh well. How many nervous people called their lawyers the next day? Such is the desperate quest to bring Trump down. Burn the village to save the village!

Bloomberg:

"A team of investigators from Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.’s office visited former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen in prison about a month ago and asked a broad set of questions about the president’s business that went beyond the payments made to silence Stormy Daniels, according to two people familiar with the matter."

There's a foot-race on for one village to burn the other village first. Establishment corruption is off-the-scale, red and blue. The Dems happen to be more corrupt at this juncture due to their 8-year hold on executive power pre-Trump.

The Ukraine portfolio is a two-edged sword that everyone knows will ultimately slay Biden. But again, no price is too high to Get Trump, and besides it serves as a door-opener for impeachment. The Democrats are stabbing themselves in the hope they kill Trump first. At the same time, Trump's not going down without a fight. Neither is half the nation who see Trump as their one last hope to reclaim America.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-08/cohen-takes-starring-role-in-da-s-pursuit-of-trump-s-business?fbclid=IwAR0KCJeLhazFY1MB57UNjPNDhKFXg0-8lEm-C7sersPCCDqVxHfNe2H1ECQ

Posted by: FSD | Oct 9 2019 16:19 utc | 244

karlof1 @197

Thanks for verifying the points I make by linking to official Russian Federation propaganda. I value your own opinions just as much and probably more than those of the one size fits all opiniators to whom you spend so much time linking.

The odd thing about you as far as I'm concerned is that we actually agree very much on most everything everything you state about the US political system and what can be done NOW, REALISTICALLY, to begin the process of overturning neoliberal and neoconservative hegemony within the economic and foreign policy sectors of the US ederal apparatus.

I only wish you would state your own opinions more frequently and clearly without concern for "fitting in" with the groupthink consensus of a handful of hgh volume commenters. We are all sometimes right and sometimes wrong and usually measures of both at same time.

Posted by: donkeytale | Oct 13 2019 21:24 utc | 245

And Karlof1 let me also state along with many others that I too am glad you didn't "take your toys" and go home after Hoarse ruffled your feathers the other day.

Posted by: donkeytale | Oct 13 2019 21:29 utc | 246

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