China's Anniversary Parade Reveals New Weapons That Will Influence U.S. Strategies
The People's Republic of China held a great parade (3h video, shorter version with comments) to celebrate the 70th anniversary of its founding. Some interesting new weapons were on display that are of strategic significance.
China has, like Russia and Iran, used the decades the U.S. military wasted with counter insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan to build strength where the U.S. military has weaknesses. Those weaknesses are most visible in the Navy:
New classes of quiet diesel submarines and new developments in mine and torpedo technology make operations close to tense coastlines far more dangerous today than in the past. As a result, U.S. aircraft carriers are no longer immune from risk when entering waters within range of enemy forces.More serious still is the deployment of Russian and Chinese area denial systems, like the so-called carrier killer DF-21 antiship missile developed in the last decade by China. Its range of over 1,000 miles far outstrips the range of any warplane on U.S. flight decks today. Sailing a U.S. carrier strike force through the Taiwan Strait these days—in a show of support for pro-democracy forces in Hong Kong, for instance—would risk catastrophe.
Iran does not yet possess anything as sophisticated as China’s DF-21. However, its domestically produced Noor antiship missile (itself a reverse-engineered rip-off of an earlier Chinese cruise missile) is dangerous at over 100 miles. [...] The combination of these missiles and Iran’s fleet of fast and cheap patrol boats has been enough to keep the USS Lincoln out of the Persian Gulf as tensions between Iran and the United States increased this summer.
The carrier killer DF-21 is no longer China's top weapon. It is a ballistic missile and a U.S. carrier group may be able to use its missile defenses to take it down. China used the last years to exceed its capabilities.
AP reports of today's parade:
One closely-watched weapon unveiled Tuesday was the Dongfeng-17, a glider capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. Foreign analysts say is designed to maneuver at high speed to evade anti-missile defenses.Another missile displayed, the Dongfeng-41, is believed to have a range of up to 15,000 kilometers (9,400 miles), which would make it world’s longest-range military missile. Analysts say it may be able to carry as many as 10 warheads to hit separate targets.
Here are some screenshots from the parade video.
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The DF-17 is a road mobile system. Its first stage is a solid fuel missile. The second stage is the hypersonic glider which can fly beyond mach 5 and is maneuverable. This is another aircraft carrier killer against which the U.S. has absolutely no defenses.
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The DF-41 is a road mobile beast. The 8 axle vehicle can transport, erect and launch the missile. The DF-41 is supposedly a solid fuel missile. That means that it only requires a very short time to deploy and launch. It will be difficult to interdict while it is still on the ground. There were a total of 16 of these monsters in the parade.
There were other systems of interests.
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This seems to be a communication relay drone. It can be used to communicate with, and steer, another drone from the ground even when the second one is over the horizon looking for U.S. ships. It makes Chinese drones independent of satellite communications.
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The HSU-001s are also drones but they do not fly but dive. These are likely to be used as reconnaissance vehicle against U.S. submarines and ships. They could also be useful for secretly mining an enemy harbor.
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This unmanned thingy is interesting. It looks fast and stealthy and has two liquid fueled engines. While it has an undercarriage the two suspension lugs on its top insinuate that it can be launched from another plane. It looks fast and stealthy but is confusing. Is it a bomber that returns to an airport? It looks a bit too flimsy for that. Is the thing itself a "suicide drone" i.e. the warhead that hits the target? Why then does it need an undercarriage? It might be for reconnaissance but it has no visible optic systems.
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This is a well sized unmanned and stealthy drone that can be used as a bomber or to launch stand-off missiles. The one system shown may be a mock up but that means that something like it is in the works and will come.
Next to several thousand marching soldiers there a number of upgraded tanks, missile systems, shore launched anti-ship missiles and lots of drones. China's equivalent of the Russian S-300 was on display and several large and very modern early warning radars. There were also dozens of mid-range missile that are, in the case of a conflict, probably supposed to end the U.S. base on Guam.
Nearly all the systems shown were road-mobile. That means that China can easily deploy even the big ones to its islands and reefs in the South China Sea. During a crisis or conflict the U.S. Navy would have to avoid the whole area or prepare for a very bad day.
In 2001 then President George W. Bush said the U.S. would do "whatever it takes" to defend Taiwan should China insist on a forced reunion. In 2006 the U.S. operation plan on how to do that was revealed:
"The Pacific command developed a new `strategic concept' for the Taiwan contingency in December 2002, and an updated plan was produced in July 2003. Last year, based upon new 2004 guidance from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and the Joint Chiefs of Staff ... a final Taiwan defense plan was published," Arkin wrote.The plan now includes "air, naval, ground amphibious, and missile defense forces and `excursions' to defend Taiwan. Options include maritime intercept operations in the Taiwan straits [sic], attacks on Chinese targets on the mainland, information warfare and `non-kinetic' options, even the potential use of American nuclear weapons," Arkin wrote.
Air operations in support of Taiwan will be difficult when U.S. carriers can no longer dare to go near China. Maritime intercept operations in the Taiwan straits are becoming wishful thinking. Taiwan has changed its defense strategy in sight of these new circumstances:
Taiwan’s new defense concept employs an asymmetric defense strategy, where Taiwan maximizes its defense advantages, and targets an invading force when it is at its weakest. Whereas Taiwan’s previous strategy focused on fighting across the entire Taiwan Strait and defeating the enemy through attrition, the new concept divides Taiwan’s defense operations into two phases, both closer to Taiwan’s shores where the lines of communication are short and Taiwan’s forces can benefit from land-based air denial and more effective surveillance and reconnaissance.
The U.S. strategy has for decades been based on air-superiority and sea control. It has yet to adopt to the new situation in which anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) weapons prohibit the use of most of its (very expensive) offensive systems.
The lack of U.S. capabilities extend to its defense systems. Hypersonic vehicles make U.S. missile defenses largely useless. Saudi Arabia recently learned that the U.S. has no air defense system that is readily capable of defeating cruise missiles and drones. While the Saudis had spent billions of dollars on U.S. air defense systems the Houthi could use those rather simple and effective weapons to attack one of its largest oil installations. It is no wonder then that the Saudis are now filing for peace:
Saudi Arabia has given a green light to Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi to arrange a meeting with Iran as a first step towards de-escalating tensions in the region, Middle East Eye can reveal.Abbas al-Hasnawi, an official in the prime minister's office, told MEE on Tuesday that Abdul Mahdi was mediating between the leaderships in Riyadh and Tehran and had communicated each side's conditions for talks to the other.
The Saudis still set some dumb conditions for talks but a few more Houthi attacks on its oil infrastructure will convince them that those are unnecessary.
The Saudis have to climb down because the superpower that once protected them is no longer able to do so. At least not as easily as it used to do.
Andrei Martyanov and others have long predicted that the moment would come where the U.S. would lose its supremacy. We no longer have to wait for it. The moment is here.
Posted by b on October 1, 2019 at 18:00 UTC | Permalink
next page »Andrei Martyanov and others have long predicted that the moment would come where the U.S. would lose its supremacy. We no longer have to wait for it. The moment is there.
I assume you meant the moment is here!
Aside
Incidentally, b, are you using several different templates for your pages? Recently I have noticed that on some pages the Name/Email fields remain filled out after posting one comment, while on other pages (such as this one) they do not. That suggests possible differences in handling of cookies between pages.
Posted by: BM | Oct 1 2019 18:35 utc | 2
It's now impossible to hide that US weapons development, procurement, and deployment (wars of aggression) have for decades been mainly a system for enriching the MIC and investors, of building and propping up the oligarchy. Meanwhile, the needs of the vast majority of Americans have been ignored or stifled by government and the deep state. The wheels are coming off the American Experiment/Empire.
This essay is helpful: "The War Nerd: Why is the F-35 Like an Albanian Mushroom?" https://pando.com/2015/09/24/war-nerd-why-f-35-albanian-mushroom/
Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Oct 1 2019 18:36 utc | 3
There are now pictures in better resolution than my screen grabs.
@BM I haven't seen the videos, but I don't see any undercarriage in the stills. Isn't that just a mounting on the trucks, that can be seen?
When I write that it has an undercarriage then it has an undercarriage.
@MB thanks, corrected.
Incidentally, b, are you using several different templates for your pages? Recently I have noticed that on some pages the Name/Email fields remain filled out after posting one comment, while on other pages (such as this one) they do not. That suggests possible differences in handling of cookies between pages.
No changes. There is no longer a cookie for the name storage. It might be your browser which does that.
@all - deleted off topic about Natanyahoo. You can discuss him elsewhere.
Thanks for the posting b....I'm impressed and hope the US MIC is as well
This is what can be done when you don't have profit as the primary motivation because you think you are invincible.
If we go the extinction route in this WWIII that the world is in, the path looks to be quite short. I hope the elite of the West love their children more than they love hegemony of the global private finance cult.
I did read a Reuters posting that I think fits here and is included below
"
GENEVA (Reuters) - The international community must confront America’s hostile approach, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said on Tuesday as tensions have spiked between the Islamic Republic and the United States.
“The international community must confront America’s hostile and unilateralist approach by taking a definitive decision and effective actions,” Rouhani said at a speech at a meeting of the Eurasian Economic Union in Armenia, according to the official IRNA news agency.
"
America/Western empire is not going to attack Iran and get away with it. It is time for the Western empire bullies to stand down and a multi-polar world to stand up as China is showing can be done.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2019 19:10 utc | 6
b: Air operations in support of Taiwan will be difficult when U.S. carriers can no longer dare to go near China
Yes, a major factor causing a decrease in US naval power (unrecognized by Navy) is the obsolescence of the aircraft carrier.
>First, carriers are generally unavailable because they are much more complex and require significant maintenance. Currently, of eleven carriers only two are deployed here, which is common. And the new carriers now cost about $13 billion, plus the accompanying ships in a carrier force, plus 5,000 crew personnel etc.
>Just as the aircraft carrier obsoleted the battleship a century ago because aircraft range exceeded gunfire range, so now the carriers' aircraft range (shorter than ever) is exceeded by missile range. It's difficult to sink a huge ship like a carrier, but any strike on the deck or on the deck island would incapacitate a carrier for some time, perhaps permanently. That's just one explosive missile, and there is no shortage of missiles.
What's the effect of this? No jet fighter air cover would doom any serious attempt by the US Navy to hinder whatever it is that China decides to do militarily in its area of operations. On top of this, the US Marine Corps is currently going through an identity crisis. What could they do? Sit on some islands? The US Army, looking for a raison d'etre besides the "Russia threat" is proposing long range artillery on some islands somewhere -- grasping at straws. US Air Force?--out of it, given China air defenses.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 1 2019 19:21 utc | 7
It's becoming more and more likely that the US with arrogantly launch an small attack on Russia, Iran, Syria or China confident that they will back meekly down, only to get a rude discovery when they strike back. I've heard that the US military is more "realistic" in their own internal assessments of the dangers of a conflict with China and Russia, but US politicians are increasingly talking themselves into a corner vs the rest of the world
Posted by: Kadath | Oct 1 2019 19:21 utc | 8
I assume the WZ8 might well be an air-launched hypersonic anti-ship missile (although admittedly it was listed in the more detailed photos amongst the UAV formations).
Posted by: BM | Oct 1 2019 19:25 utc | 9
Saudi Arabia has given a green light to Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi to arrange a meeting with Iran as a first step towards de-escalating tensions in the region,
May be this related to the current and sudden revolts which surged in Iraq ( Basora, Bagdad.. )?
Motives to demonstrate and protest there are a lot, especially the US presence in the country, but yet the "protesters" have complaints about unemployment, corruption, poverty, lack of water and electricity....why they do not denounce the US presence, who is in the origins of all their complaints?
In the videos you can see a lot of guys with US style caps ( Nike and so on, not an Iraqi dressing style...especially after the US destruction of the country...)and on fashion skinny jeans and sneakers...
https://twitter.com/SajadJiyad/status/1179031996527308801
The protests are allegedly related to the firing of General Abdul Wahab al-Saadi too...
Posted by: Elora Danan | Oct 1 2019 19:29 utc | 10
For those who really want to get into China military you might like the 2019 Pentagon Report here.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 1 2019 19:38 utc | 11
Lots of very important events happened in 1949, China's gaining its independence was one of the most important. It was the year NATO was born and the year when the Outlaw US Empire lost its nuclear monopoly. Reviewing the many events of that year and seeing problems arising then that are not yet resolved today such as Kashmir and Taiwan remind me that we have quite a ways to go just to finally finish the outcomes of WW2.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 19:57 utc | 12
If, previously, the nominally "US" empire - more plausibly the anglosaxon diaspora, has been fundamentally one that lived by plunder - if that, then what is implied is that the Imperial modus vivendi can no longer operate, and that therefore the Empire ought to, actually must do, two basic things> make a deal, and reorganize itself for the new realities.
That's not a question of will. It's what must take place. And it's not a pretty thing.
Posted by: Walter | Oct 1 2019 19:57 utc | 13
Readers should try to keep in mind that this is just the beginning of China's move into high technology. China's state driven tech R&D is organized around a kind of spiral development in which they always have three iterations of every technology being worked on at any time in a staggered fashion so that when one iteration is nearing ready to go into production and the teams involved in it ready to transition to new projects, another iteration has been in development for a couple years already and a third has been in development about twice as long and is a couple years from delivery.
China's technological development pipelines always have these three iterations. Whenever they unveil a new weapon system, for instance, they already have its replacement, as well as that replacement's replacement, in the works.
What is a more important issue is that the big delays in Chinese tech advancement up until the last few years have involved building out domestic supply chains, modernizing tooling, and training up an advanced workforce. That is all done now and today China's domestic process control and engineering are best in class... and they have a lot of those engineers!
Be prepared to be stunned again when China's 75th Anniversary is celebrated with a parade in 2024. By then America will still be trying to get the F-35 to fly reliably, and the Gerald Ford aircraft carrier's Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) catapults might possibly be made to actually work, but China will have a whole new generation of weapons systems to show off, and what you are seeing now will be the old stuff.
The pace of progress in China on pretty much any front that you can imagine is beyond belief, so I patronizingly forgive those who have not seen it up close and personal and thus cannot accept it. Still, being in denial of that progress does neither America nor the rest of the West any favors, so the inevitable posts here claiming that b is cheer leading for the Chinese will make no sense.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 1 2019 20:04 utc | 15
12 Cont'd--
A major event in US political-economic history, Truman's Fair Deal was announced in 1949, and given a number of factors--especially the PRC's establishment--I'm beginning to question the degree of Truman's control over the CIA and the military in the Western Pacific under MacArthur, along with the latter two's ties to what was then called the Conservative Coalition and their combined reasons for wanting a war in Korea. Today, Truman's Fair Deal proposal isn't even discussed in history texts, so few know what might have been had the Korean War not occurred.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 20:14 utc | 16
karlof1
I had the thought some time ago on the tidying up of loose ends from WWII
Asia Pacific was the US sphere in WWII. Korea, territories-islands unallocated to any country, lack of peace treaties Russia-Japan, China-Japan, China with civil war in no position to sit at the post WWII table.
A lot of loose ends the US has used ever since.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 20:38 utc | 17
I look at some and wonder if: what if some are decoys, drone aircraft will a large signature to have the opponents waste defenses on and drone subs that are noisy to lure attack subs out in the open.
Posted by: Tobi | Oct 1 2019 20:49 utc | 18
Very good retrospective of China since 1949 for beginners. The text is in Portuguese, but it is in very simple language and can be easily thrown into a translator:
Slight aside here but given the centrality of corporate news in the US's objectives, it's worth taking a look at who owns what. Eg, funds that own CBS also own:
CIT (CIT) Comcast Corporation (CMCSA) Mobile TeleSystems OJSC (MBT) Time Warner (TWX) ICICI Bank (IBN) Taiwan Semiconductor Mfg (TSM) Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) BlackRock (BLK) Goldman Sachs (GS) JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) MasterCard Incorporated (MA) Charles Schwab Corporation (SCHW) U.S. Ban (USB) PNC Financial Services (PNC) CBS Corporation (CBS) Dow Chemical Company (DOW) E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Company (DD) Thermo Fisher Scientific (TMO) Aetna (AET) Apple (AAPL) FMC Corporation (FMC)
The full list of investors can befound here:
https://stockzoa.com/ticker/cbs/
And we wonder why (not) the corp.media is gung ho for war?
Posted by: Barovsky | Oct 1 2019 20:55 utc | 20
William Gruff @15--
What you're remarking upon is one the most important and fundamental differences between China and the Outlaw US Empire--China has a very well thought out industrial policy incremented as 5-year plans that's holistic whereas the Empire has nothing comparable aside from its vague munitions and weapons procurement programs and archaic 2-year budgeting (which given the corruption is a good thing actually); otherwise, all is left to the private sector to perform with very little government intervention. Even the Soviet 5-year plans during the 1945-1965 period performed better than the Empire, and they only fell back due to the accumulating rot within the Soviet system briefly discussed on the previous thread.
Neoliberal dogma has always proclaimed the government to be less efficient than the private sector. China shows that argument is false and the opposite is true provided there's close to zero corruption. Here's an interesting thought: Would Chiang Kai-shek's Kuomintang been able to accomplish what Mao's CCP has and continues? Recall that Chiang placed Taiwan under Martial Law in 1949 and it remained that way until 1987. Also recall how US authorities described Chiang and his Kuomintang's governing style--"Gangsterism"--and their great lack of popularity within China--they lost the Civil War for very basic reasons.
Returning to your main point, both Russia and China have far seeing industrial plans for their combined future. The farthest in advance US corporations plan is for the next quarter and perhaps the next year. There's been some realization of the need to partner with universities, but there's no integrated plan. The only time when there was harmonized planning between all economic and social sectors of the political-economy was during WW2, but it was just too socialistic for groups like the Conservative Coalition, who constituted the first Neoliberal wave. The hysterical reactionaries like McCarthy along with the Southern racists took the Outlaw US Empire down another road. In many ways, 1949 saw the rise of the PRC and the beginnings of the Outlaw US Empire's decline. A critical comparative history would be most insightful.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 21:07 utc | 21
B, the second link (the supposed shorter version) is of the 2015 China Victory Day parade which was held in remembrance of Imperial Japan's defeat in WW2.
Posted by: Vato | Oct 1 2019 21:14 utc | 22
The black "Thingy" with undercarriage looks like it might be some sort of space vehicle, minus the 1st/2nd stage boosters.
Posted by: R Zarate | Oct 1 2019 21:21 utc | 23
A factor important to China. . .
South China Sea: China Breaks From a Century of Humiliation
by Christian Heller
...[The] Century of Humiliation from 1842 to 1949 and the contemporary discourse around it are a driving narrative of contemporary Chinese history, foreign policy, and militarization of its surrounding regions like the South China Sea.The expansion of the Chinese navy in numbers, mission, and aggression is directly fueled by China’s previous weakness and exploitation at the hands of western nations. . . over the course of 107 years, the West—to include Japan—imposed unfair and unequal treaties upon Nanjing, the Qing capital of Imperial China. Only the CCP’s victory over Chinese nationalist forces in 1949 allowed Mao Zedong to declare, “The Chinese people have stood up!”. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 1 2019 21:31 utc | 24
The odd looking drone looks to have rocket engines.
High definition veiw from the side. http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/attachement/jpg/site2/20191001/8cdcd43004dd1efda58706.jpg
China is gearing up to fight a war in which satellites will be the first casualties. This looks to be a high speed recon drone (due to landing gear), along the lines of SR-71 blackbird but faster and short range.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 21:43 utc | 25
The joke is that so dominant is the Western MSM that even the hedge fund guys are believing it. They do not even grasp that China and Russia are way beyond them in terms of responding to any aggression and, on the contrary, having the abilty to hit hit them Houthi-style times a million. Without aggression the Empire is nothing. But still they are delusioning themselves that it's all okay. They can ferry little Greta across the Atlantic on a $14 million yacht and create a whole new order where under the guise of climate change somehow nature is going to be given a value it has never had. They have ideas of privatizing oceans and amassing huge wealth on carbon bonds, pollution bonds, air bonds, whatever.
The cynicism is unreal. But genuine climate activists like Cory Morningstar (I recommend her great research) who see their efforts taken over and co-opted by big business and big Wall Street are dismayed and disconsolate because they are not looking at the geopolitics and think the US and its vassals are just going to take control and privatize everything.
Fortunately we know better.
Posted by: Lochearn | Oct 1 2019 21:50 utc | 26
Andrei Martyanov and others have long predicted that the moment would come where the U.S. would lose its supremacy. We no longer have to wait for it. The moment is here.
Hold on. I'm going to take the Devil's advocate role here. It's a bit premature to make such comments. The Chinese still need to prove their weapons actually do work. We're now getting confirmation that the US Patriot system isn't what it's cracked up to be. Why else would Israel develop their own? We also have rumors floating about regarding the F-35, Ford-class carriers and Zumwalt destroyers. Time will tell on whether those problems can be fixed.
Now, with that out of the way. The probability of Chinese weapons working as claimed is rather high. The Chinese, and Russians, build their weapons to win wars because they see what's coming down the path as the US rampages around the globe, leaving death and destruction in it's wake. The US realized their mistake on allowing their MIC to run roughshod with the public treasury. Unfortunately for them, it's too late as they're too deep in the financial hole.
karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 21:07 utc | 20:
Neoliberal dogma has always proclaimed the government to be less efficient than the private sector.
It's irrelevant how one govern themselves. Corruption favors no one. No standing army can defeat it especially once it takes hold of the ruling class.
Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 21:43 utc | 24:
Agreed. No air intake is the tell. It's likely the newest H6-K bombers will launch them.
Posted by: Ian2 | Oct 1 2019 21:54 utc | 27
My guess for the Chinese blackbird is that it is the forward fire control to bring missiles in on target.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 21:55 utc | 28
"Andrei Martyanov and others have long predicted that the moment would come where the U.S. would lose its supremacy. We no longer have to wait for it. The moment is here."
Posted by: Maracatu | Oct 1 2019 22:02 utc | 29
Today also saw the inclusion of Iran and Singapore into the EAEU, which also has ties to China's BRI. Putin's brief recap of the Summit shows the rapidity of national consolidation within these new Eurasian blocs that will likely all merge into one at some future point. EAEU will soon include India and a MOU is to be signed between it at the African Commission during the first ever Russia-Africa Summit to be held in Sochi on 23-24 Oct. Amazing how quickly nations can get together and act when there's no coercive component involved in the undertaking. That's yet another reversal; as Lavrov remarked at the UNGA, the West is losing its grip to the combined charm of Russia & China's diplomacy and trade inducements. I invite barflies to spend just a few minutes reading Putin's recap so you can see how the EAEU will attract many current EU members as it's all about development & freedom via commerce, not hegemony via banking.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:03 utc | 30
Ian2 @26--
Sorry, but it's 100% relevant how government and other organizations function, particularly when they work at cross purposes instead of being together on the same page.
Lochearn @25--
Yes, the Neoliberal set is making up its final series of falsehoods on which to place their economic models, and they are desperate. They've finally come to realize their minority position in today's world--first they're weapons and now their ideas are second rate and incompatible with reality. Meanwhile, within the governing structures of the Outlaw US Empire, what little critical thinking that was happening has now ceased with the Impeachment Narrative rolling over all. It's beyond gridlock; it's now mired in quicksand.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:23 utc | 31
The last picture is of the Hongdu Lijian (Sharp Sword) "drone", since 2013.
Posted by: Fíréan | Oct 1 2019 22:24 utc | 32
Submarine detection is something that does not show at the parade apart from the underwater drone.
Looks like it would be noisy moving through the water so maybe a listing post that can be sent to whatever location. I guess China would have the SCS and sea lanes out to the open ocean gridded with sensors.
There was an article a year or two back on China developing a satellite to detect submarines. Satellite detection, if achieved, would make submarines largely obsolete.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 22:28 utc | 33
The Aviationist has an article, with photos covering more angles, of the Wz-8 " High Altitude High Speed Reconnaissance Drone ".
https://theaviationist.com/2019/10/01/china-unveils-a-new-supersonic-spy-drone-during-massive-military-parade-in-beijing-and-heres-our-analysis/
Posted by: Fíréan | Oct 1 2019 22:40 utc | 34
BM @ 1:
Watch the long (3-hour) Youtube video about an hour and ten minutes into it, when the People's Liberation Army starts parading the hardware. Various drones are shown from different angles and you can see the undercarriage of some of them (including the one B had question marks over).
The military parade is over halfway through the video. At 2 hours and 20 minutes, the most incredible floats (including one with a few robots) come sailing down the main boulevard past Tiananmen Gates.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 1 2019 22:42 utc | 35
Spotted Carrie Lam (HK Chief Executive) at about the 2 hour 30 minute mark of the 3-hour video!
Posted by: Jen | Oct 1 2019 22:44 utc | 36
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:23 utc | 30
Corruption isn't the issue, it's whether corruption 'knows its place's and doesn't take priority over the national interest. That's the case in, among others, Russia and China. (Japan is similar and must be getting very uncomfortable in its alliance with the aging, delusional, incompetent US military.) In the US sometimes it seems corruption is the only thing.
Somewhat off topic, part of the Trump appeal is a sense that although he's a corrupt fool, at least he cares, at least he's a (badly misguided) nationalist.
Posted by: fairleft | Oct 1 2019 22:55 utc | 37
Peter AU 1 @33--
From what I understand, the thermal and nuclear signals/trails/emissions from a sub can be tracked under certain conditions. Also the geomagnetic perturbations they cause are supposedly sensible. That's why the favorite hiding place for Boomers is under the Arctic Ice. Given all that, subs form one of Russia's vital defense cornerstones, and presumably they know just how visible they are now and will be in the future. But they keep on building them. At the bottom of this page is a 25min vid about Russia's Maritime Doctrine that includes submarine use, overall building plan and the complications.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:57 utc | 38
karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:23 utc | 30:
That's called incompetence. Throw in corruption and it all goes south rather quickly.
Posted by: Ian2 | Oct 1 2019 23:10 utc | 39
karlof1
Nuclear deterrent subs may be around for some time because of the factors you mention, though at some point as detection tech increases, they too may lose their cloaks.
I was thinking on the lines of naval blockade of China. Plenty in the parade showing systems to prevent surface ships from achieving this, but I would guess just as much R&D has gone into sub detection.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 1 2019 23:39 utc | 40
Ian2 @39--
IMO, incompetence and corruption are kinsmen. And as to your earlier quip @26, an army can defeat a corrupt ruling class merely by killing them all. Furthermore, IMO, corruption's a cultural trait, not a human trait, and as such can be eradicated. If social peace is to be maintained and promoted, then corruption cannot be tolerated whatsoever, which happens to be the CCP's policy. Unfortunately, much of the corruption occurring in the West has become an accepted cost of living/doing business and isn't even deemed to be corruption any longer. That truism and others are indications as to just how low the West has sunk into a morass of immorality of its own making.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 23:41 utc | 41
What impressed me most was the energy and enthusiasm of the people in the parade. Chinese people are obviously and for good reason proud of their achievements.
Posted by: David Piesse | Oct 2 2019 0:00 utc | 42
Let's all hope this new tec, if it actually works, can make the empire rethink their fevered dreams of full spectrum dominance..
Posted by: ben | Oct 2 2019 0:13 utc | 43
It's said of Roosevelt that he saved capitalism from itself. This is generally interpreted to mean that with the New Deal, he staved off some socialist uprising, yet what gets overlooked is that the federal deficit really began with the New Deal. So not only was he putting unemployed labor back to work, but unemployed capital, as well and that is the real reason he saved capitalism. By backing private wealth with public debt.
This first started occurring to me in the 80's, trying to understand Reaganomics. Paul Volcker is credited with bringing inflation/stagflation under control, with higher interest rates, which my father railed about, that they were really just slowing the economy. Which would reduce the need for money as much or more than it would reduce the supply. Yet the economy did get going again, in the 80's.
One of the primary methods the Fed has to raise rates is to sell the bonds they bought to issue the money in the first place and retire the money. Yet more government debt would do the same thing, as well as give the government lots of money which it couldn't spend to compete with the private sector, in seeking profits, but could spend supporting the private sector. Everything from universities, to welfare and warfare. When Reagan tried to gut welfare in 86, one of the more influential opponents was Archer Daniels Midland, the food and ag conglomerate. Logically because that was money that would eventually end up in their pockets. Not to mention all the money thrown in the burn pit of the MIC, but that's well covered here.
So, Public Debt: The only suggestion ever put forth, other than campaign slogans, was the line item veto. Which obviously had an ice cube's shot in hell of passing congress, as it would have gutted their authority over writing the budget. Now budgeting is to list one's priorities and spend according to ability, but that's not what they do. They put together these enormous spending bills, add whatever goodies demanded to get the votes and then the president can only pass, or veto it. Sort of like letting kids run wild in a candy store, while the clerk writes up the bill for the parents.
If they wanted to budget, using the line item veto as a template, they could break these bills into their various items, have every congress critter assign a percentage value to each item, put them back together in order of preference and then the president gets to draw the line. "The buck stops here."
Yet what if it actually worked? How could Wall St function, if the government didn't backstop a trillions dollars worth of investment grade offerings every year? That is why we have a military whose primary function is to spend money.
So what happens when no one will buy that debt anymore, though obviously well after the economy has crashed? There will be those going around buying it up, pennies on the dollar and then using the leverage they would have also acquired, to insist it be traded for remaining public assets. Facilitated by government functionaries, who will be their future employees.
It's called disaster capitalism, or just predatory lending, if you wish. The result is called oligarchy.
The fact is that money is a contract, in which the asset is backed by a debt. As such, it makes a very useful medium of exchange, yet we view it as a commodity, to save and store. So storing the asset means we need to create similar amounts of debt and that's the big secret of capitalism. For one thing, it creates a centripetal effect, as positive feedback draws the asset to the center and negative feedback pushes the debt to the edges of society. Though since finance functions as the circulation system, this is like the heart telling the hands and feet they don't need so much blood and should work harder for what they do get.
It used to be the Fed would "pull the punch bowl away, when the party got going," but now they just add more vodka when it runs low. This flow of money through the economy needs to be carefully regulated, just like the body regulates the flow of blood, for similar reasons. It's functionality is in its fungibility. We own it like we own the section of road we are using, or the fluids passing through our bodies. If the government was to tax out what it currently borrows, people would quickly start finding more organic ways to save value, in their lives and communities, not everyone's bank account as their personal umbilical cord.
The irony of individualism is the atomized culture it creates means society can be more easily controlled by institutional authority and most relationships mediated by a parasitic financial system. Networks matter as much as nodes.
Sorry for the length of this, but "background."
Posted by: John Merryman | Oct 2 2019 0:24 utc | 44
@42 You may be impressed but the BBC isn't. They took the opportunity to remind us that ...
"Media censorship - always stringent in China - has been tightened even further, with broadcasters given a set list of programmes to play and internet censors removing any online criticism of the Communist Party or its leaders."
At least they didn't say the crowds of onlookers were bused in and forced to cheer.
Hong Kong meanwhile is a bastion of freedom and democracy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-49808078
Posted by: dh | Oct 2 2019 1:09 utc | 45
Re: #23 Don Bacon,
I get the feeling that the US is entering it's own century of humiliations, only unlike China, I doubt American will ever be able to pull itself together again after it collapses
Posted by: Kadath | Oct 2 2019 1:38 utc | 46
The US Navy has major problems with new ships and old ships
>New ship problems include the later, more expensive, not-working aircraft carrier, the also expensive "stealth' destroyers that don't have weapons, the Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) that have no role, are not survivable, and still they have 32 of them. . .none of the Little Crappy Ships were deployed last year. . .RollCall: Navy routinely buys defective ships
>The Navy recently released its first-ever long-range ship maintenance and modernization plan amid a growing fleet and a growing backlog of repair work, and the report highlights challenges in dealing with chronic mismatches between maintenance requirements and yards’ capacity. . .Delays caused by a green workforce at the public shipyard, which deals with nuclear maintenance (or submarines and aircraft carriers), are also causing delays. . .Navy is short hundreds of millions of dollars for ship depot maintenance
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 1:49 utc | 47
@ Kadath 46
the US is entering it's own century of humiliations
Yes, sort of, but nothing like what China went through with foreign occupation.
Reminds me of a Steve McQueen movie.
The Sand Pebbles is a 1966 American war film directed by Robert Wise in Panavision. It tells the story of an independent, rebellious U.S. Navy machinist's mate, first class aboard the fictional gunboat USS San Pablo, on Yangtze Patrol in 1920s China.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 2:05 utc | 48
BBC: "70 years of Communist rule"
complaint: I never see Capitalist rule.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 2:08 utc | 49
@karlof1
An excellent read on UNZ about corruption and China.
http://www.unz.com/article/corruption-in-china/
Part of Xi Jinping’s vision of China’s future, and realization, was that with corruption as it existed, there will not be any BRI. I travelled there extensively around the time of his predecessor and experienced first hand the excesses and the corrupt ways. More like trying hard to be “WESTERN”. Glad to see the turn around.
Posted by: Uncle Jon | Oct 2 2019 2:23 utc | 50
#47
The US military is already unable to clear their enormous maintenance backlog, fixing broken new toys or getting enough replacement manpower in a period of budget increases. Doesn't bode well in a real shooting war or budget cuts in a recession that is lurking just around the corner.
Posted by: JW | Oct 2 2019 2:26 utc | 51
A principal corruption practice in the Pentagon is on the continuing sole-source procurement of major items of materiel in violation of the law which calls for competitive procurement. Lockheed Martin is a major beneficiary with F-16s, C-130s etc bought from LM-only forever. Next is F-35: The Project Office failed to contract for the tech data package which would allow competitive procurement of an expensive item developed at taxpayer expense. Not only that, but LM will have sole control of F-35 maintenance logistics forever.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 2:44 utc | 52
The US Navy procures three destroyers per year here, China has produced nine this year here.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 3:42 utc | 53
ben @43:
Let's all hope this ... can make the empire rethink their fevered dreams of full spectrum dominance..
karlof1 @41:
incompetence and corruption are kinsmen... the West has sunk into a morass of immorality of its own making.
We'd all hope that Western elites would recognize that 1) the unilateral moment has passed and that 2) it's in their interest to reform themselves. But while they might recognize (1) by now, they will resist (2) as long as possible.
Right now the Empire is essentially negotiating the boundaries of their sphere of influence and while doing so, attempting to gain as much advantage as possible as well as choking dissent and playing divide and conquer political games so as to insulate themselves from the discontent of their failures.
Part of that 'negotiation' is the contemplation of military action in strategic places like Iran, Venezuela. Thus far Russia (primarily) and China appear to have stymied any further adventurism. Yet much continues covertly (where does ISIS get its money?).
The Empire thinks it can subdue the rest of the world simply by the economic advantage already built-in. And it will be opportunistic (as always) in furthering that advantage (e.g. Arctic and Space). It could be several decades before the futility of conflict and scarcity of resources force the global powers to some kind of accommodation. Until then, both sides will continue to waste resources on military crap - and all of humanity is the poorer for it.
IMO the best hope for a better world sooner rather than later is that large numbers of Westerners are angered enough by the corruption, political games and increasingly heavy-handed control mechanisms to seek solutions via things like independent Movements and direct democracy. Sadly, this is only likely to happen after severe economic hardships that force people to not only awaken (many are already have, to varying degrees) but to ACT in their collective best interest.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 2 2019 4:23 utc | 54
A few of the U Tube videos give the parade much more justice. The pictures here looked somewhat fake but after watching a few of the videos I see a country rising much like Germany in the '30's. The outcome may be far worse for many. It is a powerful spectacle that speaks for itself.
The Chinese will not be denied what they feel is rightfully theirs and they will not be denied control in their sphere of influence. They will patiently build up their forces and pick the day and time when it is best for them to act.
Both Russia and China are building up along the same lines. Modern littoral and deep water navies may be totally useless in the next war against a foe that is positioned to launch their weapons.
The West has a few choices, bend to their will or confront. Confrontation will be disastrous and it will happen IMHO.
Posted by: dltravers | Oct 2 2019 4:36 utc | 55
@ jackrabbit.. i don't know that we have very many more years to figure this out either.. i know that sounds pessimistic, but with countries like china and russia glorifying in their military parades and hardware, and the neo cons in the west thinking they are superior to all this - we have the majority of the world in an arms race, when they are not being caught up in some type of financial gaming of the world... it seems like we have a very short time indeed to change course and unless some unforeseen event happens to wake these same people the fuck up, i just can't see things working out for planet earth..
so how is the saber ratting around taiwan going anyway?? where does taiwan sit in all of this? are they performing the military parade spectacle too??
frankly these military parades are depressing... it reminds me of the decadence of the rich on display in the west - all show and no substance... someone with a large bank account or large supply of military gear showing off... human nature is really depraved when money or military gear are on display as i see it.. maybe debs can offer a better rant, lol..
Posted by: james | Oct 2 2019 4:42 utc | 56
@ dltravers 55
The West has a few choices, bend to their will or confront
If "bend to their will" requires giving up world hegemony and changing to world cooperation, it would be a good thing. The US has no real interest in the South China Sea. Restore the promise offered by the United Nations established in San Francisco in 1945, the globalism recently rejected by Trump.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 4:47 utc | 57
@ 56
The National Day of the Republic of China (Taipei) is coming right up -- Oct 10 (1911) or 'double ten day.'
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 5:00 utc | 58
Don Bacon @ 52:
You may like to watch this Vox channel video on the F35 and how its production supports economies (and probably crowds out other employment and business options) in different states around the US, and the way in which the politics and economics behind the F35's development and production are so intertwined that corruption and insularity are essential to the survival of that network.
That world really needs its own vocabulary to describe it; the language of "classical economics" and "neoliberal economics" is inadequate for it.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 2 2019 5:28 utc | 59
Don Bacon @ 52:
You may like to watch this Vox channel video on the F35 and how its production supports economies (and probably crowds out other employment and business options) in different states around the US, and the way in which the politics and economics behind the F35's development and production are so intertwined that corruption and insularity are essential to the survival of that network.
That world really needs its own vocabulary to describe it; the language of "classical economics" and "neoliberal economics" is inadequate for it.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 2 2019 5:28 utc | 60
@35 Jen
Thanks for the tips on the long video. I might never have watched this otherwise. As it is, I've seen the most amazing parade ever. I'm downloading it now as a keeper.
@56 james
If you find military parades depressing you should watch the back half of the long video b linked to and that Jen cited. I never saw a military parade that finished with such lovely singing, and such joyous - and presumably civilian? - floats. Astonishing color and culture on float after float, so many that it took two columns.
Maybe the greatest thing that comes through from this military parade is how much this nation doesn't want war, but just wants to enjoy a life of peace.
This is China. Nothing about this alien yet very human civilization is to be parsed or judged through western parameters. It is simply to be observed, perhaps even a little in awe, and learned about.
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 2 2019 5:35 utc | 61
@ 57 Don Bacon
et me begin by saying I don't mean to lecture you! tYou mistake Trump's words for his meaning. He says he is anti-globalist, but his actions are all about furthering the US empire, which is globalism, with a unipolar flair.
Posted by: sorghum | Oct 2 2019 5:35 utc | 62
karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 23:41 utc | 41:
Incompetence isn't always the result of corruption which can never be eliminated only managed. The ruling class is called that way because they call the shots. Since military leaders are selected by the ruling class, the army is effectively neutralized, especially in Western societies where the idea of civilian rule is superior to a military one. A military coup is possible but highly unlikely.
Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 2:05 utc | 48:
The US is in a quasi-foreign occupation. Soldiers are not needed when the political class have whored themselves out with ample cannon fodder at their command. Frankly, the current crop of politicians should be considered foreign agents.
Jackrabbit | Oct 2 2019 4:23 utc | 54:
Sadly, this is only likely to happen after ***severe economic hardships*** that force people to not only awaken (many are already have, to varying degrees) but to ACT in their collective best interest.
It's the only way. I also predict this hardship needs to last at least a generation before people do something about it.
dltravers | Oct 2 2019 4:36 utc | 55:
The West has a few choices, bend to their will or confront. Confrontation will be disastrous and it will happen IMHO.
This "my way or the highway" nonsense is the typical mindset that needs to go. They're looking for cooperation.
Posted by: Ian2 | Oct 2 2019 5:47 utc | 63
james
We live in countries that have never been invaded.
The weapons in those parades are only thing that stand between the people of those countries and Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya ect.
Easy to sit here under no threat of attack.... End of the cold war should have seen the end of this bullshit, but US is still living in the days of empires prior to nuclear weapons.
Perhaps the US will just collapse like a bag of shit, or perhaps it will start letting off nukes...
but one things for sure, those weapons on display are what is allowing the alternate systems that are being put in place for those countries not interested in groveling before the mighty uncle sam.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 2 2019 5:52 utc | 64
Posted by: dltravers | Oct 2 2019 4:36 utc | 55
"The West has a few choices, bend to their will or confront. Confrontation will be disastrous and it will happen IMHO."
I don't doubt they'll choose confrontation in the end. But you left out the West's best option - Get the hell out of places where they had no business in the first place, such as Asia and the Mideast.
It's only places like Taiwan and Hong Kong who have no choice but to bend or be destroyed.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 2 2019 5:28 utc | 60
"That world really needs its own vocabulary to describe it; the language of "classical economics" and "neoliberal economics" is inadequate for it."
It's a boomtown phenomenon with all the pathologies and dead aftermath that go with it. The only difference is that government subsidy is sustaining the boom longer than usual.
dltravers
Both countries have very strong defensive systems. Neither country can project power.
Russia is willing to sell its air defence systems to anyone.
What happens when everyone has very strong defence systems, but little in the way of offence systems.
One thing - I sure wish my country would give the middle finger to the US instead of sacrificing people like those on MH17 for US geo-political goals.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 2 2019 6:20 utc | 67
@56 james
I do not find military parades depressing any more. They used to be depressing under communism - it was like saying - this is why you live so poorly. Now, they are best interpreted as a defensive warning - look what we got and think twice before attacking. This is why every troll of the Western world keeps dreaming and braying that the modern Russian and Chinese weapons are just paper maches. Also that US has many super secret wunderwaffe. I hope that they and their troll paymasters will never have to find out the truth.
Therefore, we may think of this parade as a response to the advanced US preparations to confront China. Just like b, I am not promoting China, but I do feel that this parade is countering the adventurism and the wish for war. Just as much as the famous chilling Russian video of Bulava delivering its multiple warheads onto Florida. Everybody is smart but chilly reminders are precious.
The key question facing humanity is - how will US be able to adjust to the World in which it cannot pillage any more? Will the adjustment to the new reality cause a nuclear war?
Posted by: Kiza | Oct 2 2019 6:24 utc | 68
We are part of the Asia pacific region. Our so called leadership treat small neighbours with arrogance, and hang onto US coat tails while shouting abuse at our main trading partner, the bullhorn of the south, the anglo outpost.
Before this is over and the US kicked out of the region, we are going to have some extremely pissed off neighbours, and for good reason.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Oct 2 2019 6:28 utc | 69
Posted on the latest week in review; fits here better
Steve Bannon's Warning On China Trade War (w/ Kyle Bass)
8-21-19
54 min
Posted by: pogohere | Oct 2 2019 6:46 utc | 70
Posted by: Grieved | Oct 2 2019 5:35 utc | 61
"I never saw a military parade that finished with such lovely singing, and such joyous - and presumably civilian? - floats. Astonishing color and culture on float after float, so many that it took two columns."
I presume the floats were provided by by the various provincial governments in China. Illustrating some of the various locations and variety of it's regions, but also showing the world the inclusiveness of all it's citizens in the countries celebrations.
As opposed to just the Beijing elite.
Watching the military exhibition of certainty, potency and commitment to their countries leader, I suspect the "civilians" were equally well schooled.
It is difficult to make people to look so glad to be there. The military yes, the provincial citizens less so.
"this nation doesn't want war, but just wants to enjoy a life of peace."
Which desire was the reason for the PROC, in October 1st 1949,to take up the banner by Mao and his like minded political partners.
"This is China. Nothing about this alien yet very human civilization is to be parsed or judged through western parameters. It is simply to be observed, perhaps even a little in awe, and learned about."
I agree. One hopes the awe remains in the positive portion of the spectrum.
Posted by: OhOh | Oct 2 2019 7:03 utc | 71
The Russian military parade marking the end of the Patriotic War also has the Immortal Regiment march. We remember, we wont forget and we will fight the next war on the territory of those who will attempt to wage war against us. The Russians should put a slogan on their vehicle license plates similar to what the province of Quebec has on theirs, "Je me souviens", but that practice seems to be a North American phenomena.
Posted by: Tom | Oct 2 2019 8:28 utc | 72
70th Anniversary us vs them
They were displaying new weapons carefully built up over time. We were displaying our expertise, causing riots in Hong Kong and accusing everyone else of Information Warfare. Gordon Chang recently wrote a piece in the WSJ, 'Hong Kong May Topple Communism'. We corner the market in media spin, no matter what the protesters do they are always 'pro-democracy demonstrators'.
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Oct 2 2019 10:50 utc | 73
OhOh @ 72:
You are correct, the civilian part of the parade included floats from the various provinces of China and a float from Hong Kong appeared as well.
Posted by: Jen | Oct 2 2019 11:06 utc | 74
Without doubt if your country's arms industries produce weapons not up to scratch then they're not contributing to your country's defence but to its defeat. With the F-35 boondoggle and other weapons platforms such as some of the new naval vessels, the US arms industry will bring about America's defeat and perhaps its resort to nuclear weapons. The Mob couldn't have robbed the US taxpayer so blind so quickly.
Posted by: Michael McNulty | Oct 2 2019 11:07 utc | 75
"frankly these military parades are depressing." --james @57
That's because you are not from one of the countries that has had to defend itself for real from imperialism. Rather you are from the primary source of imperial aggression in the world. Do you remember how many people in America felt during the Cold War? Devastation could rain down from the skies at any moment? Have to be ready to "duck and cover" at a moment's notice? That went away for Americans in the 1990s, but not for the Russians or Chinese (or North Koreans or Iranians or Venezuelans or .... maybe you get the idea). For the Chinese these kinds of displays give them a sense of security from the monsters (that would be Americans) that threaten them from the other side of the planet.
"The West has a few choices, bend to their will or confront." --dltravers @56
You have it completely bass-ackwards. It is the Chinese and Russians (and Iranians and Venezuelans and Yemenis and ... hopefully you will get the idea) who have few choices but to build up their defenses against the empire or submit to evil.
It never ceases to amaze me how the denizens of the psycho murdering evil empire insist upon casting themselves as the victims of aggression when they are the principal source of violent aggression in the world. Why do they pretend to care what happens in the South CHINA Sea, for instance?
"B-b-b-but the poor Vietnamese! We need to help them!"
Like you helped them by napalming millions of them to death? Amazing that those who make that claim to care about their victims cannot see how full of shit they are.
This utter hypocrisy is apparently baked right into the American cerebral operating system, corrupting their thinking below the conscious level. They don't even realize how messed up it is.
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 2 2019 11:19 utc | 76
Today also saw the inclusion of Iran and Singapore into the EAEU, which also has ties to China's BRI.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 1 2019 22:03 utc | 29
What!!!??? Neither Iran nor Singapore have been included in EAEU. Iran has signed a free trade agreement with the EAEU and Singapore has also signed an agreement with the EAEU. Both were merely guests at the EAEU summit.
Posted by: BM | Oct 2 2019 12:01 utc | 77
Re: 49 Don Bacon,
Yes It won’t be the same as China’s century of humiliations, but it will have its’ own humiliations that will really stick in the Craw of whatever rump USA is left. The processing of economically hallowing out the US by the US elites is also having the effect of making the US less united and more frayed. Unless the process is reversed soon (and I mean an sustained campaign of internal development, like 20-30 yrs period, not 1 or 2 presidential terms). Then I suspect the US will start breaking apart. Mexico taking back a couple of the southern States, quite possible, Hawaii and Alaska declaring independence, very likely without a strong central government providing incentives to remain. California taking a chance as its’ own country, almost a certainly if they decide that the rest of the States are dragging them down. Within 30 years we could see the US reduced to a rump country made up of the 13 original colonies and parts of the mid-west. We can never forgot that the Soviet Union collapsed within 5 years.
Posted by: Kadath | Oct 2 2019 12:57 utc | 78
It seems to me that world domination in technology and military might in the modern era may have come to mean you can't kill or impoverish global consumers
Posted by: Brad Lena | Oct 2 2019 13:04 utc | 79
Can I recommend Dimitri Orlov's latest on the Ukraine? A devastating indictment of'Ze' and the US and witty to boot.
https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/09/look-whos-not-laughing.html
Posted by: Barovsky | Oct 2 2019 13:29 utc | 81
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 2 2019 11:19 utc | 77
Excellent! Bravo! Gruffly put. At least someone is talking sense here.
Posted by: Barovsky | Oct 2 2019 13:33 utc | 82
i think this parade is nice but what's not seen is the ones in the water. PRC just released their helicopter carrier not too long ago with a second one in the docks. along with their aircraft carriers which they are building. many wonder what's the point of it?
not everyone's doctrine is invasion. the days of carrier empires are over, just as the days of trying to embargo china through oil routes on the high seas are also over as well. except now china could very well embargo korea/guam/japan and others with ease. should the need arise which i don't think it ever will but it is checkmate.
Posted by: jason | Oct 2 2019 13:39 utc | 83
- I am NOT convinced that those russian and chinese weapons are superiour or equal to similar US made weapons.
Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 2 2019 13:50 utc | 84
@Willy2
Another way to look at it is will sheer numbers prevail? Who do you think could produce the most weapons in the quickest possible time? My money is on the NON HOLLOWED INDUSTRIAL POWER, China.
Posted by: Morongobill | Oct 2 2019 14:00 utc | 85
Wm Gruff has (correctly) mentioned Vietnam and the horrors the US performed there. Currently we're seeing China push a little bit on Vietnam (again) and the MSM is tacitly supporting Vietnam but never any mention of the ongoing US aerial bombing of half a dozen countries. We don't know the full extent of it. There are never ever any bomb damage reports of US assaults, civilian casualties being plentiful, but plenty of detail when the natives react to them with a show of force.
There are still many things that need to change, still a lot of work to do. This peaceful show of force by China should be helpful in that regard. I do a lot of blogging on military blogs (milblogs) and the "lets go" people now are more inclined to say "wait a minute" when faced with new realities, and the fact that the US doesn't have the warriors and the equipment to do what it used to do in the world.
The US has China surrounded in bases. Osan air base in Korea with its bombers is one air-hour away from Beijing, but China is now more capable to defend its own interests which gives the armchair warriors pause, as it should.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 14:17 utc | 86
The American industry is going nowhere:
Worst month for US manufacturers since 2009: ISM
And here's the reason why:
In Washington, regarding its appointed enemies (a security state always needs enemies), the emphasis is on enemy behavioral change.
. . .from DefenseNews...
...In June, the Department of Defense discreetly created a new job: the deputy assistant secretary of defense for China.
...And while Michèle Flournoy, who served as undersecretary of defense for policy from 2009 to 2012, sees a greater focus on China as a wise move, she worries about the unexpected effects of creating a new office.
...The new DASD position runs the risk of creating a focus on China that ignores regional allies and partners who will play a major role in attempts to shift China’s behavior, Flournoy said. . .here
China is not the only country which needs to 'change behavior' -- Iran is a big one, and Russia, and North Korea...
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 14:43 utc | 88
@89 Your link doesn't make it for some reason Don...it looks like a whole new department focussed on China. More offices, more staff and a revised budget. No doubt the Chinese will feel much more comfortable with all the new plans they come up with.
Posted by: dh | Oct 2 2019 14:58 utc | 89
Willy2 @85 sez: "I am NOT convinced that those russian and chinese weapons are superiour or equal to similar US made weapons."
See what I mean? Americans cannot even comprehend what is wrong with the way they look at the world. The psychopath cannot perceive their own psychosis.
Look, stupid psychos, China is not intending to "bloody America's nose" as a response to all of the evil you have done in the world by bombing Washington or anything like that. Psychos cannot understand it, but the Chinese (and Russians and Iranians and Venezuelans and so on) are not also murderously violent psychos like Americans are. You Americans believe yourselves to be exceptionals, and in this one way - your psychosis - you are indeed the exception to the human norm.
The whole point of China's (and Russia's and Iran's and Yemen's...) weapons development is to convince you stupid psychos that if the psychotic impulse crosses your damaged mind to "bloody China's nose" (or Russia's or Iran's or...) to achieve whatever you mistakenly imagine that you need to do, that you abandon the notion you can do that without your own nose getting bloodied in return.
The frustrating thing here is that too many Americans are too stupid to understand this. America's stupidity is it most deadly weapon.
America: "We'll bloody your nose with some cruise missiles if you don't do wut we want!"
China: "We'll sink your aircraft carriers if you do that."
America: "What!!?!?! That would mean WAR!!!"
China: "Are you stupid? Sorry, that's a rhetorical question."
Posted by: William Gruff | Oct 2 2019 14:59 utc | 90
@ Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 1:49 utc | 48
Yes. Not only navy.
Also MSTS Ready Reserve Fleet exercise indicate that activation is "highly likely" to go poorly. Lack of experienced hands, cranky steam turbine ships...money... https://news.usni.org/2019/09/17/transcom-running-largest-ready-reserve-fleet-stress-test-since-2003
Posted by: Walter | Oct 2 2019 15:04 utc | 91
@ dh 90
Thank you for posting the link. I always try to to check them but sometimes doo-doo occurs.
I'll try again...
Here's the link for #89.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 15:18 utc | 92
@ WG 91
America: "We'll bloody your nose with some cruise missiles if you don't do what we want!"
And it will be necessary for "national security." That's the last thing that Obama thought of each night before he went to bed -- remember him saying that? That's the guy that sent 70,000 more troops to far-off tribal mountainous Afghanistan, no threat to the US, while he was accepting the Nobel Peace Prize. National security. That includes national defense but not much b/c friendly Canada and Mexico are on two sides and lots of fish on the other two sides.
So "national security" principally means protecting US world-wide "interests" which include the Arctic, the South China Sea, the Black Sea, Ukraine, Iran, Venezuela, you name it. . .the list goes on and on. And it's all BS.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 15:33 utc | 93
#91
Can't said it better myself. Any "peace-loving" Americans that are pissed at other nations rightfully taking measures to defend against constant US aggression are themselves imperialists of the very hypocritical flavor.
Also, their favorite meme regarding China is "we don't hate China but we only hate the CCP" means a full-on hate of all things China, period. We Chinese know and understand these Baizuos to the T.
Posted by: JW | Oct 2 2019 15:41 utc | 94
BM @78--
Entering into a a free trade agreement with EAEU would of necessity also mean inclusion as both are also observing members seeking full membership.
William Gruff @91--
Your rant makes me recall Caitlin Johnstone's recent essay about "American Privilege" wherein she includes such blindness.
Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2 2019 16:07 utc | 95
U.S. Competition With China Ongoing Challenge
...from the Pentagon...Oct 1, 2019
The U.S. competition with China is the ongoing challenge of this generation, Randall Schriver said at a Brookings Institution event in Washington. Schriver, the assistant defense secretary for Indo-Pacific security affairs, spoke as the Chinese Communist Party celebrated 70 years of rule in the world's most populous nation. He said the United States military must adapt to deter China.
. . .U.S. strategic competition with China is a major element of national strategy, he said. "We feel we are in competition because fundamentally we have different visions, different aspirations and different views of what regional security architecture should look like," Schriver said. [Competition not cooperation, a guy thing.]The United States wants a free and open Indo-Pacific founded on enduring principles and values that "are near universal and widely shared," he said. These include respect for national sovereignty, fair, free and reciprocal trade, a rule-based order and peaceful dispute resolution. [These are the 'buzz-words' frequently used by the US, casting China as a newcomer which doesn't understand the rules.]
"We observe that China has a different vision and aspirations and is increasingly developing the tools to pursue its vision and seems willing to accept more friction in pursuit of that vision," he said. "Globally, China seeks to shape a world consistent with its authoritarian model and national goals. We see that domestic governance in China as a result of CCP rule is increasingly authoritarian and less respectful of human rights and dignity." [The US is big on human rights, elsewhere.]
China has launched influence operations to undermine free elections, used economic coercion on neighboring countries and encourages outright theft of other nations' intellectual property. "We see them extending their military presence overseas and expanding the 'One-belt, One-road' initiative to include military ties with China," Schriver said. "And we see [China] deploying advanced weapons to militarizing disputed features despite pledges at the senior-most level that they would not do so." [talking South China Sea] . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 2 2019 16:14 utc | 96
ALERT:Posted by: Mike | Oct 1 2019 22:26 utc | 33
Spying Mike is back, collecting our ip addresses with his tracking image.
Please b, I would appreciate if you make it impossible to post images in the comment section.
Posted by: Joost | Oct 2 2019 16:16 utc | 97
Posted by: Joost | Oct 2 2019 16:16 utc | 98
RE #33
So that's what the white out is. Thanks.
Posted by: Barovsky | Oct 2 2019 16:28 utc | 98
thanks for the many responses to my post... i agree with you all for different reasons, although i am not going to commit to watching a video.. the fact these countries have been exposed to wars and the country i live in hasn't since the beginning of its inception, is a big difference... it doesn't change the fact i find military parades depressing... but i understand the need for countries to counter what the usa has done the past 60 years..
grieved.. i appreciate your posts and comments, but my impression is you have an overly idealistic attitude about china... i think you may be wrong on that.. but, lets just say i don't hold the same level of idealism towards china that you do.. where i live on the westcoast of canada, the chinese have a strong presence... it is all about money, and acquiring more of it for the most part.. now, maybe one could say we inherited the worst of china, thanks the many who came from hong kong in the 90s and the many more who are coming from the mainland especially of late - last 10 years.. all of them fixated on bmws, mercedes and big box houses and etc... i just can't see the same china as you based on my direct experience here where i live..
face seems to be everything for the chinese... this military parade show is more face.. what backs it up - is harder to know..
Posted by: james | Oct 2 2019 16:33 utc | 99
- I am NOT convinced that those russian and chinese weapons are superiour or equal to similar US made weapons.
Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 2 2019 13:50 utc | 85
Hi mr willy2, try to remember/research why the inferior murican tanks won against the superior German tanks during the last few years of the 2 ww....
Then rethink your exeptionalist wiewpoint and try to expand your inferior mind..
Posted by: Per/Norway | Oct 2 2019 17:00 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
WZ-8
Why then does it need an undercarriage? It might be for reconnaisance but it has no visible optic systems.
I haven't seen the videos, but I don't see any undercarriage in the stills. Isn't that just a mounting on the trucks, that can be seen?
Posted by: BM | Oct 1 2019 18:28 utc | 1