Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 26, 2019

Trump Pushed Ukraine's President To Investigate Issues Of U.S. Public Interest

The misguided 'impeachment inquiry" develops with the declassification and publication of the whistleblower complaint (pdf) that underlies the case.

It alleges what was publicly known even before the phone call between Trump and the Ukrainian President Zelensky was published.

During the then still ongoing Mueller investigation Rudi Giuliani, as a private lawyer for President Trump, tried to find exculpating information which he hoped would debunk the allegations of collusion between Trump and Russia.

It was known that there had been involvement of Ukraine related people as well as of Ukrainian officials in Russiagate and the election campaigns:

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

How deep where these involvements? Are there Ukrainian sources in the debunked Steele dossier about Trump?

There was also the mysterious fact that just three weeks after the U.S. managed 2014 coup in Ukraine, in which Joe Biden as then U.S. vice-president was heavily involved, Joe Biden's son Hunter started to receive more that $50,000 per month for being on the board of a Ukrainian gas company even though he had no knowledge of the gas business or the Ukraine.

In April the then Prosecutor General of the Ukraine Lutsenko was quoted in The Hill mentioning the above allegations.

Giuliani hoped that the Ukraine would investigate both issues and would find facts that might help to exculpate Trump. He openly spoke about this in several TV appearances and interviews since at least March 2019.

On July 24 the Mueller investigation into Russiagate closed. On July 25 Trump had a phone call with Zelensky in which Trump mildly pressed for further Ukrainian investigations into both issues, the Ukrainian involvement in Russigate and the U.S. election and the case of Hunter Biden. Zelensky responded that he would so. He later said that he found the telephone call "normal".

The whistleblower, presumably someone of medium to higher rank in the CIA, is concerned that Trump's request to Zelensky is a "serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law or Executive Order" that justify his action.

The Democrats in Congress will make similar claims. But there are reasons to see the issue completely differently.

Attorney General Barr has opened an investigation into the roots of the debunked Russiagate claims. An investigation on the ground in the Ukraine could surely help to find evidence proving or disproving Ukrainian involvement in it.

Biden had publicly bragged to have blackmailed the then Ukrainian President Poroshenko into firing the then Prosecutor General of the Ukraine Shokin. Shokin had at that time an open case against the owner of the Ukrainian company Biden's son worked for. Biden's intervention smells of corruption or at least undue interference by a U.S. official for personal reasons.

Trump can reasonable argue that investigations in the Ukraine into both issues are in the U.S. public interest.

Did Ukrainian officials interfere in the 2016 election by creating or hyping the debunked Russiagate affair and by supporting the Clinton campaign? Alleged Russian interference in the election was a big issue. Why is Ukrainian interference not of interest?

Did Joe Biden use his influence to get his unqualified son a high paying job in Ukraine? Did he use his official powers as vice president to the advantage of Hunter Biden's employer?

Has the U.S. public an interest in knowing the answers to these questions?

If it has such interest why shouldn't the president concern himself with pushing the Ukrainian president to investigate the issues?

Posted by b on September 26, 2019 at 14:37 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

You knew it was coming:

Could Trump's Impeachment Crisis Push Hillary Clinton to Run in 2020?

Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 27 2019 20:09 utc | 201


From the document guiding whistle-blowing procedures:

“In order to find an urgent concern credible, the IGIC [Intel Community Inspector General] must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IGIC cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second-knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she has witnessed some type of wrongdoing.”

It would therefore seem that the complaint lacks credibility.

cited from ZH

Posted by: the pessimist | Sep 27 2019 20:11 utc | 202

karlof1 @197 queried: "What's the actual motive for defending Biden..."

Though I am confident that karlof1 already knows the answer, and stupidity is certainly more than just 1% of that answer, the larger part of the motivation behind the establishment's behavior in this ridiculous farce needs more careful examination.

The establishment is not interested in protecting Biden. The imperial establishment would throw him under the bus right now if that would extricate them from their current dilemma. The establishment is trying to protect the establishment itself. If they let the narrative shift to investigating Biden, then it is very unlikely that such an investigation could be conducted without pulling off the bed covers that are hiding the entire incestuous and inbred orgy between state, business, and mass media that birthed the coup in Ukraine.

While many readers here at MoA are very much aware of how the empire arranged a violent coup in Ukraine, this level of awareness is not broadly shared by the American public. In fact, most Americans still think that the White Helmets are the good guys. The idea that they are just ISIS with a quick wardrobe change, black jumpsuits and balaclavas swapped out for light tan jumpsuits and white headgear, is incomprehensible to them even now. Nazis took over Ukraine? And America made that possible? Inconceivable for most Americans.

That said, many Americans are starting to be plagued by doubts. It's still nothing that some Xanax and beer can't keep at bay, but a big and highly public investigation of what the Bidens were doing in Ukraine would change that. The establishment was barely able to duck responsibility for the 2016 election circus and the ensuing Russiagate debacle. The American public is doing their patriotic best to keep their disbelief in the establishment's narrative du jour suspended, but it is an increasing struggle. We know that Putin has weaponized reality itself, and as a result many exceptionally patriotic Americans have happily parted ways with any reality that includes acknowledging that America murders for oil and other resources and for global demonic hegemonic power. But many more Americans are not ready to so completely cut loose from reality, no matter how ugly, and a big Biden investigation will force them to face that reality.

Once the Biden investigation starts for real there is no off ramp from that highway to hell. Preventing the idea of that investigation from grabbing the public's attention is imperative, which is why the mule/bunny manzai act is tasked with attacking it from two directions. The Mule saying impeachment is a slam-dunk in the hopes that if enough people believe it to be so then it will be so (the younger generations in America think that way), and if Trump can be impeached quickly enough then maybe the Biden investigation will be forgotten. The bunny, on the other hand, is arguing that "it's a nothingburger" in the hopes that the issue can be dropped and forgotten before a real investigation starts.

The short version answer is that the establishment is panicking and making bad decisions. Their hysteria has ratcheted up a notch from the heights reached during the Russiagate farce, if you can imagine it getting worse.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 27 2019 20:16 utc | 203

reply to
What's the actual motive for defending Biden and okaying the attempted impeachment of Trump?
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2019 18:57 utc | 197

My guess is they are defending Biden because they have no other way to defend CrowdStrike.

Who,if/when all is revealed is the source of the Russiagate hoax and equally importantly is also the link to Hillary's server which was used to sell US secrets worldwide and to the Awan brothers who accessed all of the US congress and departments corresp and sold them off, probably at Hillary's direction.

These 300 voices crying foul fear that the many and lucrative scams the Uniparty have been running for eons are about to see the light of day.

And this is why on the off chance he is going to take them all down is why I will vote for Trump. Never wound a king:)

Posted by: frances | Sep 27 2019 20:17 utc | 204

reply to
"Crowdstrike also made the claim that the same Russia hackers – “Fancy Bear” – who hacked the DNC, hacked Ukrainian artillery software causing devastating losses of Ukrainian artillery."
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2019 19:21 utc | 201
Another point on this, there is good reason to assume that the presence of the supposed DNA of Fancy Bear on the DNC server was inserted after the fact by CrowdStrike assuming it was ever on the server at all.

Posted by: frances | Sep 27 2019 20:26 utc | 205

reply to
You knew it was coming:
Could Trump's Impeachment Crisis Push Hillary Clinton to Run in 2020?
Posted by: Bemildred | Sep 27 2019 20:09 utc | 204

IMO a red herring. My guess is they are going to run Michelle, she is going to be the "reluctant" candidate. They have to; polls show the black vote is turned off by Warren and would vote for Trump by about 40 percent. THEN the wheels will really come off the cart.

Posted by: frances | Sep 27 2019 20:31 utc | 206

To definitely debunk this fake fight amongst neocons of the fake US bipartisan system, along with fake claims ( by allegedly intelligent and "on the resistance" people like Pat Lang...) on the "leftistness" of those neocons in the Democrat Party of the USA...

The New York Intellectuals and the invention of neoconservatism by Denis Boneau

Since 1945, American and British propaganda services have been recruiting intellectuals, usually from Trotskyite media, to invent and promote an “ideology capable of competing with communism”. The New York Intellectuals, headed by Sidney Hook, efficiently and zealously complied with several missions entrusted to them by the CIA, thus becoming first-class agents of the cultural Cold War. Key theoreticians of this movement, like James Burnham and Irving Kristol, devised the neoconservative rhetoric used nowadays by Washington “hawks” as their foundation....

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 20:45 utc | 207

@Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 20:45 utc | 210

Btw, in the photo illustrating the linked article, it says,

Arthur Kœstler (British IRD agent), Irving Brown (CIA agent in charge of European and African left-wing) and James Burnham (CIA agent in charge of intellectual media).

Do not think for a moment that all this is a thing of the past, and that those "charges", with similar tasks, do not continue in development today, especially "CIA agent in charge of intellectual media"...

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 20:50 utc | 208

Strategic Culture has an article up on Sun Yat Sen with some interesting quotes such as:

“The British are as cunning as the fox and as changeable as the weather and they are not ashamed of themselves… Britain seeks friendship only with those which can render her services, and when her friends are too weak to be of any use to her, they must be sacrificed in her interests. Britain’s tender regard for her friends is like the delicate care usually shown by farmers in the rearing of silkworms; after all the silk has been drawn from the cocoons, they are destroyed by fire or used as food for fish. The present friends of Britain are no more than silkworms.”

“The key policy of England is to attack the strongest enemy with the help of the weaker countries and join the weakened enemy in checking the growth of a 3rd country. The British foreign policy has remained basically unchanged for two centuries.”

“When England befriends another country, the purpose is not to maintain a cordial friendship for the sake of friendship but to utilize that country as a tool to fight a third country. When an enemy has been shorn of his power, he is turned into a friend, and the friend who has become strong, into an enemy. England always remains in a commanding position; she makes other countries fight her wars and she herself reaps the fruits of victory.”

The subject of the essay is Hong Kong, but these observations are widely applicable I think.

Posted by: the pessimist | Sep 27 2019 21:15 utc | 209

@Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 20:45 utc | 210

Also, from the article linked...

Contrary to a disseminated thesis, there was no Trotskyite infiltration, but a recovery of Trotskyite elements, in the American right wing, firstly as an objective alliance against Stalinism and, secondly, to put its dialectic capacities at the service of pseudoliberal imperialism.

Burnham and Shatchman abandoned the Socialist Workers Party and the Fourth International in 1940 to form a splitting party. Max Shatchman rapidly predicted the emergence of the Democratic Party. He joined the democratic hawk Henry "Scoop" Jackson, whose fierce support to the military-industrial complex won him the "Senator Boeing" nickname. He reorganized his party as a trend within the Democratic Party under the name of United States Social Democratic Party (SD/USA).

During the 1970s, Senator Jackson hired brilliant assistants like Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Richard Perle and Elliot Abrams [12]. Max Shatchman, trying always to preserve his extreme left discourse, turned the SD/USA into a CIA workshop capable of discrediting the extreme left formations while becoming one of the main advisors of the anticommunist trade union organization, the AFL-CIO [13].

The SD/USA Political Bureau included personalities like Jeanne Kirkpatrick, who will become symbols of the Reagan era. In the midst of a total gender confusion, the extreme right theoretician Paul Wolfowitz intervened as speaker in extreme left party congresses. Carl Gershamn was appointed president of the SD/USA and he is currently executive director of the National Endowment for Democracy [14].

In general, members of this party, whose organs are the Commentary magazine and the Committee for the Free World, were rewarded for their manipulations as soon as Ronald Reagan took power. The New York Intellectuals not only developed a leftist criticism against communism, but also invented a «leftist» disguise for the extreme right ideas whose final maturing stage was neoconservatism. Thus, the Kristols and their friends can introduce George W. Bush as an «idealist» who is determined to “democratize” the world.

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 21:20 utc | 210

The Netherlands,les Pays-Bas,are referred to by its countrymen as "Nederland".But in fact it is short for The Kingdom of the Netherlands,het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden,which is plural.
In Dutch we've always referred to Ukraine as "de Oekraïne",just as we say "de Krim",and "de Libanon",but I can't explain why.(Maybe because the particle designs a geographic item,like de Sahara,de Sahel,and de Libanon would refer to the mountain,and de Oekraîne to its meaning borderland.)
In French though,every country gets the particle.

Posted by: willie | Sep 27 2019 21:32 utc | 211

@Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 21:20 utc | 213

On the relations amongst the CIA, NED, AFL_CIO and the bipartisan system of the US, Philip Agee told us:

Philip Agee, a former CIA officer and author of the book "CIA Diary: Inside the Company," summarizes "the democratic expansion" through foundations such as the NED and four tentacles: Republicans, Democrats, the AFL-CIO union and the US Chamber of Commerce

Philip Agee: "In the CIA we didn't give a damn about democracy. Nothing happened whenever a government cooperated, but if you don't cooperate, democracy means nothing to us and the principle of the people's government, by and for the people, it's nonsense "

https://twitter.com/LOQUEDIGAELFMI/status/1169684658491187201

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 21:32 utc | 212

@ Sasha - Thanks for the interesting article about the neocons. new info to me. Thanks!

I saw a posting from you the other day regarding ETA and a connection to US gov't intelligence. I haven't heard about that. I know that this thread is about Ukraine, but I am curious to learn more. I would have waited for an open thread, but...I couldn't.

please forgive me, everyone. I don't want to derail the Ukraine thread. Even though I am about to vomit from all the popcorn I have consumed watching this dumpster fire.

Revealing Ukraine, Oliver Stone and Igor Lopatonok's new movie is going to get a USA release soon I have heard...

Interviews with President Putin, Viktor Medvedchuk, leader of the Opposition block For Life in Ukraine. Commentary from Professor Ivan Kachanovski from University of Edmonton in Canada and journalist Lee Stranahan.

B will be in the next film I hope!!

спасибо!

Posted by: roza shanina | Sep 27 2019 21:43 utc | 213

@Posted by: roza shanina | Sep 27 2019 21:43 utc | 216

As far as I have researched, all the terrorism in the world have been, can be linked to the CIA, ETA being only one amongst many cases.... All the terrorists organizations in Europe ( and currently ISIS/AQ...)intertwin, involved in the arms and drug trafficking, along with their handlers in the "law enforcement corps" and "intelligence services"...
.
The goal, demonizing leftist ideas, especially communism, destroy young activism, even if needed by destroying whole generations by drugs, and "Tension Strategy" so as the country, or a region/community within a country, can not see any peace or development until the only way out is presented as a right wing rule...

I am not going to link here what I have researched, it will be banned, but just look for information about "Faisan Bar in Irun", Tension Strategy, Gladio, COINTELPRO, Demagnetize, CHAOS and the Pentagon directive 30-31B, CIA clandestine school for terrorism "Hyperion" in Paris, terrorsit attack in Italy, Spain, Belgium and RFA, Andrés Casinello, Castillo de Rothschild in the oustskirts of Paris, EGI ( PNV young movements ), ANV ( Acción Nacionalista Vasca ), Sokoa Cooperative, Irangate, of Gilles Boulouque, antiterrorist judge, misterious suicide...

It occurs to me, just now, while I am writting, that may be this could be happening at other latitudes too...not only in Western Europe and by other "intelligence services"...

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 22:13 utc | 214

William Gruff @206
frances @207&8--

Happy Hour can't come soon enough on this TGIF! Although parsing China's and Russia's UNGA speeches provided a timeout of sorts. I feel like I'm playing Canasta and the proper card was discarded thus allowing me a massive meld that took me out at the same time--Gin!!--but that's another version. Now, where's the tonic and limes!

Now that enough signs of the danger they've made for themselves have manifested, how fast will it all die, or have all the horses left the corral already? Pundits now chortling will soon choke on their prose.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27 2019 22:14 utc | 215

William Gruff 206

My guess is they will try and keep the impeachment going till election time and hope to have a win.
In the meantime though, their theater may well derail any investigation into the server and Biden

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 27 2019 22:14 utc | 216

Thanks you, Sasha.
I realize now I should have used the open thread from a few days back. My bad. It won't happen again.
Thanks to everyone here who have helped me learn so very very much.
God help us all.

Posted by: roza shanina | Sep 27 2019 22:19 utc | 217

@ William Gruff with his comment # 206.....nicely written and thanks

I just read the following article at ZH that tosses more fuel on the fire

New Docs Contradict Biden Claim That Fired Ukrainian Prosecutor Was Corrupt

The take away quotes
"
Hundreds of documents obtained by The Hill's John Solomon contradict Joe Biden's claim that a Ukrainian prosecutor investigating his son's employer was corrupt and inept.
"
"
In a sworn affidavit, Shokin says "I was forced out because I was leading a wide-range corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine, and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, was a member of the board of directors."
"
"
Shokin told Solomon that when he got fired, he was planning to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that he and Archer collected from Burisma - which in some months totaled over $166,000 according to documents seized by the FBI.

Joe Biden, meanwhile, has been peddling the narrative that Shokin's March 2016 firing had nothing to do with Burisma - a narrative which Shokin himself disputes.

"The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors," Shokin testified in the affidavit, adding "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company but I refused to close this investigation."
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27 2019 22:34 utc | 218

@Posted by: roza shanina | Sep 27 2019 22:19 utc | 220

Ok, your welcome, Vladivostock would be a great place too!

God help us all.

Meanwhile "He", or the "Imam in the Well" come, try better to help yourself...just in case...they are too late...

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 22:42 utc | 219

There are those that believe "Fancy Bear" is actually Ukrainian intelligence (SBU).
Certainly their fingerprints have been detected in any number of other falsehoods.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 27 2019 22:46 utc | 220

Breaking!

US envoy for Ukraine Volker RESIGNS amid Trump-Zelensky impeachment controversy

Hmmm...Who the wistleblower could be?
Who is now Vladislav Yurievich to talk with?

Posted by: Sasha | Sep 27 2019 23:12 utc | 221

@206 william gruff.. thanks for your post.. i hope you are correct in your conclusion.. however when the mistakes start stacking up, bigger accidents inevitably happen... i am not sure if that is going to be a good thing at this juncture..

Posted by: james | Sep 27 2019 23:48 utc | 222

This piece at RT is interesting. And relevant to the topic:
https://sputniknews.com/world/201909281076908480-two-former-us-soldiers-accused-of-2018-florida-murder-linked-to-ukrainian-far-right-militia/

Posted by: bevin | Sep 27 2019 23:54 utc | 223

Not RT but Sputnik!

Posted by: bevin | Sep 27 2019 23:55 utc | 224

james

I guess this covers why the majority of people in the west still get their news from MSM without attempting to look elsewhere.

"The primary assumption behind the concept of cognitive dissonance is that people have difficulty juggling two conflicting ideas in their minds at the same time without feeling ill at ease, uncomfortable, and in short: dissonant. Consequently, rather than live with the discomfort the ideas generate, people tend to choose one idea over the other and try to live as best they can with their decision."

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 28 2019 0:12 utc | 225

re: CIA vs. Trump
from The Federalist--
Intel Community Secretly Gutted Requirement Of First-Hand Whistleblower Knowledge

Between May 2018 and August 2019, the intelligence community secretly eliminated a requirement that whistleblowers provide direct, first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoings...The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 1:15 utc | 226

A blast from the past.....
from Washington Examiner, Jan 30, 2017
Schumer warns Trump: Intel officials 'have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you'

The new leader of Democrats in the Senate says Donald Trump is being "really dumb" for picking a fight with intelligence officials, suggesting they have ways to strike back, after the president-elect speculated Tuesday that his "so-called" briefing about Russian cyberattacks had been delayed in order to build a case.
"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," said Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer Tuesday evening on MSNBC after host Rachel Maddow informed him that intelligence sources told NBC news that the briefing had not been delayed. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 1:26 utc | 227

Don Bacon @229 now that is interesting, isn't it. Mud wrestling in the halls of congress about to commence. I also heard that "300 intelligence professionals" signed a letter stating that what Trump did on the phone call was 'deeply disturbing' or some such. Battle lines being drawn. Major news outlets aligned against Trump, including BBC.

Posted by: the pessimist | Sep 28 2019 1:51 utc | 228

This from a Saker piece at UNZ Review a few years back.

"A Russian joke goes like this: “Question: why can there be no color revolution in the United States? Answer: because there are no US Embassies in the United States.”

Funny, maybe, but factually wrong: I believe that a color revolution is being attempted in the USA right now."
http://www.unz.com/tsaker/a-color-revolution-is-under-way-in-the-united-states/

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 28 2019 2:09 utc | 229

Just for giving away Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and trying to give away the West Bank as well to Zionists and shredding the Iran deal and trying to collapse the Iranian economy, I wanna see Trump cry like a baby when he's thrown out of office and into a cell with an orange jumpsuit to match his face. Scumbag.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 28 2019 2:27 utc | 230

@206 funny how the bunny heads back to its hole when its tale between its legs once called out..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 28 2019 2:38 utc | 231

@ my 229
While the IC removed the requirement that complaints be based on first-hand knowledge, it did not change the requirement that it refer to conduct within the IC.

my 177
...The law did not require the director of national intelligence to forward it to Congress because it involved “conduct by someone outside the Intelligence Community and did not relate to any ‘intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the DNI,’ ” he claimed....

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 3:37 utc | 232

@228 peter au.. i think that conclusion in the paragraph you share is generally true... not everyone can juggle a few different viewpoints simultaneously and be relaxed with them... i suppose it is too discomforting... i do it all the time!!

Posted by: james | Sep 28 2019 3:41 utc | 233

It's true that Bush jr. and Cheney committed the worst crime of all: invading a sovereign country based on fabricated intelligence.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 28 2019 3:58 utc | 234

@ circe - the usa has been doing this for a lot longer then bush or cheney came on the scene.. maybe the big difference is how exposed the lies going into the war on afgan and iraq were after 9-11... all bullshite 24-7 from the us of a has become the norm..

Posted by: james | Sep 28 2019 4:03 utc | 235

I will throw some speculation into the mix of this thread. The Democrats want to damage both Trump and Biden. Their polling shows Biden cannot beat Trump but Warren will beat Trump. Warren is drawing large crowds. The party needs to be unified around Warren and Biden needs to get out of the campaign. Bernie's angry old man stump speeches are doing them no good either. He reminds me of an old man yelling at the kids to get off his lawn.

Biden will bumble his way thru the campaign and like Hillary he is not physically and mentally fit to be the face of a campaign that needs to be on point to beat Trump. Warren can claim some anti establishment credentials through her rhetoric but not her actions. Rhetoric and good press is more relevant than actual deeds.

They will take no chances at Trump beating them again. Trump should create an excellent turnout for the Democrats but they need a singularly strong candidate to rally around. Biden appears to be too old, too tired and too mentally unfit.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 28 2019 4:34 utc | 236

@ 238
Bush and Cheney didn't do Iraq by themselves, they had important help from the Dems including especially Biden and Hillary. In fact it was President Bill Clinton who signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 4:39 utc | 237

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 28 2019 2:09 utc | 233

Yep, there is some irony in that it seems to be done via Ukraine.
But looking at the history of US presidents there is nothing unusual. We just get to see the spectacle in real time when the drama was filtered by slow media before.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 28 2019 4:45 utc | 238

At least the CIA hasn't done a Dealey Plaza on him. . .Yet.

Posted by: donbacon | Sep 28 2019 13:44 utc | 239

Trump goes on offense. . .
from The Hill

. . . the Trump campaign has gone into battle mode, announcing a multimillion dollar television ad buy Friday that highlights the unsubstantiated allegations that Biden pushed for the resignation of a Ukrainian prosecutor in order to prevent an investigation into a firm with ties to his son, Hunter.
The ad will appear on national cable outlets and digital platforms starting Sunday and will run for a week.
“Democrats want to deny Americans the opportunity to vote to re-elect President Trump and people need to know the facts,” Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale said in a statement. “This is a Joe Biden scandal and the Democrats are trying to use it to steal the election.” . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 14:09 utc | 240

I will throw some speculation into the mix of this thread. The Democrats want to damage both Trump and Biden. dltravers | Sep 28 2019 4:34 utc

Democrats are not a single entity, but CIA may want to damage Trump, with Biden being an acceptable collateral damage. Back in his prime, Biden was a crappy candidate, so now we have a product of "second category" with "best use before 2000" printed on the can. In the same category there are newer faces like Buttie[something] and Beto, but clearly, the entire field (except Tulsi) is OK with them. From anti-Trump point of view, it is better if Biden is eliminated early.

Explanation of "Schumer warns Trump: Intel officials 'have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you'". Apparently, Schumer does not want CIA to work on Saturdays, so their dirt digging should start on Sunday.

So we have somewhat convoluted affair, the type that baffles undecided voter and mildly energizes the bases. Digging dirt about digging dirt. If you believe that there is no smoke without a fire, then there is no dirt digging without dirt. If there was nothing wrong about Crowdstrike and Burisma, nothing particularly wrong in checking that it was indeed the case. We would not suspect that Ukrainians would falsify evidence, would we? And if we go that route, namely that the can because they did it in the past...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 28 2019 14:30 utc | 241

The Dems (in effect) have said that what Biden did in Ukraine is off limits, and that Trump asking Ukraine for info on it is a high crime, worthy of impeachment. So Trump is now (apparently) going to tell us anyhow what Biden supposedly did in Ukraine. "If I go down then you go with me.". . .Which does indicate that Pelosi & Company either don't need Biden any longer, or they made a big mistake in thinking that Trump would just roll over.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 14:54 utc | 242

Posted by: donbacon | Sep 28 2019 13:44 utc | 241

That was Hoover's somewhat sinister FBI then. Last time I looked Trump had his own guy heading the agency. There is this act though of Trump playing the imbecile and his subordinates/his family the reasonable people who keep things running.

Of course Trump, Don Jr., Ivanka and Jared are part of an international extortion racket as were Clintons, Obama and Biden.

This here is Ivanka Trump's investment fund supported by Angela Merkel (and the German tax payer).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 14:09 utc | 242

Yep, Trump will win this. He must have enough stuff on Joe Biden by now. He may take everybody down though.


Posted by: somebody | Sep 28 2019 14:56 utc | 243

Here it comes (video).

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 15:45 utc | 244

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 28 2019 15:45 utc | 246

Early start of the election campaign :-))

Posted by: somebody | Sep 28 2019 17:16 utc | 245

Warren on Biden

Nearly 18 years ago, Elizabeth Warren published a multi-count indictment of Joe Biden's legislative and political history.

It was actually titled:

Harvard Law School Public Law
Research Paper No. 032

What is a Women's Issue?
Bankruptcy, Commercial Law and
Other Gender-Neutral Topics

by Elizabeth Warren
Harvard Women's Law Journal Vol. 23, Spring, 2002

But considering that Biden was named (not favorably) 40 times (25 times in the text and 15 times in footnotes) in the 56-page document, it's clear that she intended to make a very strong point about Biden's concern for women, children, debtors and the entire non-privileged portion of the US population.

The paper can be accessed here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=310544&mod=article_inline

If for some reason you cannot access the entire document from the site, I have the original pdf, and perhaps I could forward it to b, and see if he'd care to do something with it to make it more accessible.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Sep 29 2019 16:48 utc | 246

If someone on the House Impeachment Committee has a parent who is of Ukrainian descent, should he not recuse himself? Or at least disclose that fact? Apparently Mr Schiff has done neither.

Although he is Jewish, and knows the Russians persecuted the Jews, what happened in World War 2 in Ukrainia pales in comparison. 1.5 million died in Ukrainian Nazi Cocentration Camps

Posted by: MMarley | Oct 11 2019 0:58 utc | 247

I’m really disappointed in this post. It contains fallacies that are straight out of Fox News reporting.
1. The Steele Dossier has not been debunked by any stretch of the imagination. As a matter of fact, much of it has been verified.
2. The Ukrainian prosecutor was not investigating Biden at the time, that is false.
3. The relationships between the men arrested over the last week and their business dealings between Giuliani and Ukrainian gas interests have been documented, although that is not reflected here. Why would someone ignore the months-long effort on the part of Trumps personal lawyer to direct business toward his boss be ignored?
4. At the time Biden bragged about that prosecutor’s removal, the entire reasonable world was looking to see him gone. He was a crook of the worst kind. Even the republicans supported this action, and several of them wrote a letter in support of his removal. Why is that not mentioned at all?

If I wanted to read a bunch of nonsense and half truths I’d bot to Breitbart or Fox. I expect better here.

Posted by: SawDustForBrains | Oct 18 2019 22:57 utc | 248

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