Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 14, 2019
Attacks On Major Saudi Oil Installations Show Urgent Need For Peace With Yemen

Ten drones controlled by Yemeni Houthi forces hit two major Saudi oil installations last night and caused several large fires.


biggervideo

The Abqaiq (also Babqaiq) oil processing facility is 60 km (37 miles) southwest of Aramco’s Dhahran headquarters.

The oil processing plant handles crude from the world’s largest conventional oilfield, the supergiant Ghawar, and for export to terminals Ras Tanura – the world’s biggest offshore oil loading facility – and Juaymah. It also pumps westwards across the kingdom to Red Sea export terminals.

The oil and gas conditioning plant in Abqaiq is the largest of the world. It sits at the center of Saudi Arabia's oil and gas infrastructure.


bigger

Abqaiq processes 6.8 million barrels of crude oil each day. More than two thirds of all Saudi oil and gas production runs through it. It is not clear yet how much of the widespread facility was destroyed.



bigger

The second target was a processing plant near Khurais 190 km (118 miles) further southwest. It lies within the countries second largest oil field. Both installations are more than 1,000 km (600 miles) from Yemen.

Saudi Arabia does not have air defenses that protect its oil facilities from attacks from the south.


bigger

Aᴍɪʀ @AmirIGM – 11:34 UTC · Sep 14, 2019

This graphic shows Saudi Air Defences around the Abqaiq oil facilities that were struck early Saturday. The drones were well within PAC-2 range, but outside Hawk range. It's possible that the low-flying or the drones' small size and composite materials helped it avoid detection.

PAC-2 are older U.S. made air defense systems which can not 'see' small drones or cruise missiles.

Satellite images show significant smoke coming from Abqaiq.


bigger

There is smoke coming from four additional oil facilities but it may be from emergency oil flaring that is now necessary because the processing facilities further downstream are blocked or destroyed.

Saudi Arabia said that the fires are under control. Video shot this morning shows that they continue.

In one video taken last night on the ground near the facility one can hear the high pitched noise of a drone motor and then an explosion. In other videos automatic gunfire can be heard. These were probably attempts by guardsmen to take down drones.

But drones may not have been the sole cause of the incident. Last night a Kuwaiti fishermen recorded the noise of a cruise missile or some jet driven manned or unmanned aircraft coming from Iraq. Debris found on the ground in Saudi Arabia seems to be from an Soviet era KH-55 cruise missile or from a Soumar, an Iranian copy of that design. The Houthi have shown cruise missiles, likely from Iran, with a similar design (see below). After an attack on Saudi oil installations in August there were accusations that at least some of the attacks came from Iraq. Iran was accused of having been involved in that attack. While this sounds unlikely it is not inconceivable.

That attack in August was the checkmate move against the Saudi war on Yemen. As we wrote at that time:

Saudi Arabia finally lost the war on Yemen. It has no defenses against the new weapons the Houthis in Yemen acquired. These weapons threaten the Saudis' economic lifelines.

Saudi Arabia has nothing that could stop mass attacks by these drones. It would require hundreds of Russian made Pantsyr-S1 and BUK air defense systems to protect Saudi oil installations. There would still be no guarantee that they could not be overwhelmed.

New drones and missiles displayed in July 2019 by Yemen’s Houthi-allied armed forces

bigger

The Houthi armed forces spokesman claimed responsibility for today's attack:

This operation is one of the largest operations carried out by our forces in the depth of Saudi Arabia and came after a accurate intelligence operation and advance monitoring and cooperation of honorable and free men within the Kingdom.

The claim of cooperation by people in Saudi Arabia will make the Saudi rulers even more paranoid than they usually are. It may well be that the drones were launched from inside Saudi Arabia and that their launch point was far nearer to the target than is publicly assumed.

The spokesman continued:

We promise the Saudi regime that our future operations will expand further and be more painful than ever as long as it continues its aggression and siege.

We affirm that our goals bank is expanding day by day and that there is no solution for the Saudi regime except to stop the aggression and siege on our country.

The war on Yemen, launched by the Saudi clown prince Mohammad bin Salman in 2015, cost Saudi Arabia several billion dollar per month. The Saudi budget deficit again increased this year and is expected to reach 7% of its GDP.  The country needs fresh money or much higher oil prices.

Saudi Arabia recently renewed plans to sell a share of its state owned oil conglomerate Aramco. Earlier this month the long time Saudi Energy Minister Kalid al-Falih was first demoted and then removed from his position and replaced by Abdulaziz bin Salman, a half-brother of the clown prince:

"The long tradition of the oil minister as a technocrat non-royal has been broken, and the best theory is that departing minister Khalid Al Falih was too resistant to the pace of change pursued by Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman," wrote Paul Sankey, energy analyst with Mizuho.

The removal of Kalid al-Falih ended the nationalist resistance against the selloff of Aramco and the countries wealth.

But who will buy a share of the company when its major installations are not secure but under severe attacks?

The Saudi clown prince will have to make peace with Yemen before he can sell Aramco shares for a decent price. He will have to cough up many billions in reparation payments to Yemen and its people before the Houthi will be willing to make peace.

First Saudi attempts to sue for peace were made two weeks ago. It seems that they asked the Trump administration to work out an agreement with the Houthi:

The Trump administration is preparing to initiate negotiations with Iranian-backed Houthi rebels in an effort to bring the four-year civil war in Yemen to an end, The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

The effort is reportedly aimed at convincing Saudi Arabia to take part in secret talks with the rebels in Oman to help broker a cease-fire in the conflict, which has emerged as a front line in the regional proxy war between Riyadh and Tehran.

Nothing has been heard of the initiative since. The Saudis need to move fast to end the war. Unless that happens soon we can expect further escalations and more attacks like the ones earlier today.

Comments

Bolton “It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela.”
Perhaps he didn’t think bigly enough. Saudi assets should be a bargain soon. Just a matter of scooping up the loot rather than flying into Russian made plus domestic air defence in Venezuela and Iran.
Trump has been milking the Saudi cow for awhile now, selling them useless military junk and telling them to finance US regime change and military occupation operations.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 2:20 utc | 101

Considering where it is published FP’s Iran Owns the Persian Gulf Now is an interesting read.

Posted by: A User | Sep 15 2019 2:24 utc | 102

@ SHRAGS #103
About GPS jamming and spoofing…
This is not difficult since GPS/Glonass signals are relatively weak due to the high orbits of those sats. However, you can realistically only jam an area you wish to protect. You cannot jam the flight route of a cruise missile since you don’t know which of any number of possible flight routes it could take.
Also you can only turn on jamming WHEN you know a cruise missile strike is on its way, you can’t keep the jammers on all the time as it will disrupt other equipment that relies on those positioning systems.
But even with jamming in the terminal phase, an accuracy of about 10 meters can be achieved just with INS, especially if drift was corrected en route by satnav, as we would expect no jamming possibility during that portion of flight.
Each degree of a paralell corresponds to about 60 nautical miles, so each minute is one nautical mile, and each second is 1/60’th of a nm [6,000 ft], which is ~ 100 ft. you can get to within one tenth of a second accuracy, which is 10 ft or 3 meters with a good gyro system and aeronautical maps that are already digitized and set up in nav systems for light aircraft.
These are of good quality and are quite cheap. Just think of it as flying a small aircraft over that route. Using your off the shelf nav system you can find the exact coordinates of your target to within a fraction of a degree second.
Then instead of flying the airplane you just program that into the cruise missile autopilot. This is how the flight plans for actual cruise missiles are programmed.
Yes, the enabling technologies for this have become very accessible. It would have been unthinkable to buy an INS system for a couple of thousand bucks a couple of decades ago.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Sep 15 2019 2:25 utc | 103

@ eagle eye #84
Agree 100% on the Aussie perspective, especially with now 3 Australian citizens caught up in the Iranian justice system. But we will follow Uncle Sam to the bitter end so we can play petty regional power in the Pacific. Cui bono? Is this a casus belli for war against Iran? An attempt to boost oil prices? The tangle of interests and counter-interests both within countries and between them is very complex. Oil, money, regional supremacy, religion, ethnicity. The MSM narrative is either AWOL or goodies/baddies stupidity. Australians will get a rude shock from the 21st century and the less they understand the worse it will get: hurtling into the dustbin of history when we might have become the Switzerland of the Asia-Pacific.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 15 2019 2:57 utc | 104

@106 Yes an interesting read. Maybe I’m not reading it correctly but it looks like a challenge to Trump to take a tougher stand with Iran. US credibility is at stake.

Posted by: dh | Sep 15 2019 3:11 utc | 105

Peter AU 1, #100
Yes. That, and letting “professors” funded by (((think tanks))) fiddle with our education system endlessly until its output is worse than useless. I was being a tad a sarcastic.
I will be talking to my local Federal MP shortly, and he has enough brains and military knowledge to understand exactly what I am on about. I will be suggesting that some of his colleagues need their nuts introducing to a hammer and anvil for their lack of urgency in addressing this issue. Not that it will do any good because the local (((lobbying))) efforts seems to carry way more clout than the voting constituents.

Posted by: eagle eye | Sep 15 2019 3:22 utc | 106

Churchill ” No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
Well times change and media tells us democracy is all-wise and perfect. Looking at it now, my thought is that the best system of governance, is that which works best according to a country and its culture – culture being the sum total of its history.
Patroklos 108 Thanks for putting that into words.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 3:27 utc | 107

Patroklos, 108.
All that and more. I agree. And we now have a god bothering happy clapper in charge. So many missed opportunities.

Posted by: eagle eye | Sep 15 2019 3:27 utc | 108

eagle eye 110
Worth a go. The biggest problem I see is the five-eyes intelligence establishment, and the fact that anyone taking up the position of PM must swear alliegence to the monarch of England rather than to our own country to take up the position.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 3:31 utc | 109

Its difficult to see, how USA creditability is in issue, aggressive warmongering in an environment where everyone can produce and use 9/11 type weapons..is fraught with pitfalls. Is it possible the missiles were issued by Oman, maybe from somewhere in Yemen, the Oman don’t have any great love for MBS ?
The Taliban is about to take Afghanistan back ending the CIA trade there, Yemeni’s are about to take, hold and keep half of Saudi Arabia plus their existing part of Yemen (and to get the Saudi to rebuild Yemen), Iraq is in the process of shutting the USA out of Iraq, Syria is about to redeem its nation, and Lebanon is poised to take out Israel, China has made it clear it intends to enforce its claims vs USA. Federal Reserve dollars are approaching useless and valueless; Brics is coming into its own, China is strengthening and block chains are about to deny all nations any ability to control the value, quantity or types of currency the people of the world use. Currency will become a black market commodity I predict.
I agree with Jack Rabbit at 102.. MBS has few friends, almost no interior loyalty, and nothing to lose. . by going after Iran.. I do not think the USA will back MBS in such a venture because of Russia, but Israel most likely will. If I were Israel, I would be worried about my refinery at Haifa.. without it, well.. ..

Posted by: snake | Sep 15 2019 3:46 utc | 110

b’s link in this sentence “In one video taken last night on the ground near the facility one can hear the high pitched noise of a drone motor and then an explosion.”
That I think is a small piston engine not a turbine.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 3:53 utc | 111

Laguerre @ 29
You are probably right. I always try to look through the BS as we are smothered with bullshit stories from all sides. These drones do look pretty impressive for the cost.
Plant fires are allowed to burn out on their own. You cut off the inputs to the burning system and then cool surrounding equipment. If this was just a tank farm then it is not a big deal. Operating units, that would take some time to return to service.
The Saudis have oil in storage they can stuff into the pipe while they get their production back. The futures markets are closed until Sunday. They will have the best handle on the damage and we will see that by the price of crude futures Sunday afternoon.
I guess this is another example of a people oppressed by an imperial power overcoming the technological dominance of the empire. Vietnam and Afghanistan come to mind.
Here are some options for the Saudis. I bet the brochures are already in their hands.

Posted by: dltravers | Sep 15 2019 3:59 utc | 112

dltravers 116
Good for surveillance drones but no so good for cruise missile type drone that has inertial guidance backup. A good opportunity though, for Trump to again milk the saudi cow.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 4:13 utc | 113

One thing we don’t really know is what the end of this war looks like to the Houthi. We assume that if Saudi stops its attacks, the Houthi will also stop fighting, and start talking reparations – but do we actually know what picture is in the Houthi mind of victory?
Possibly the strategic thinking is now focused on an endgame that causes deep and lasting damage to KSA, diminishing its viability in the world and the region. Perhaps Yemen might choose to take this opportunity to finish the war that Saudi started, by ending the power of this kingdom forever as a threat.
That’s how I would play it if my neighbor had done to my family what KSA has done to Yemen. Maybe they form the same judgment. I don’t think we know.
~~
There are several game changers that come out of this event, purely within the tightly local Yemen/KSA theater, not even looking further afield to Iran, Israel, USA, etc.
First, we now know that Yemen can strike deep into KSA, and with great intelligence – using that word in both senses. This was a supremely effective strike, hitting KSA precisely where it hurts. If it’s true that 50% of Saudi oil production just went offline, then you couldn’t ask for a more pinpoint strike. It was the jugular itself, and the strike has proved the accuracy of the blow.
Second, it seems legitimate to assume that these strikes can be repeated, and can actually stop the flow of Saudi oil to the world, which conceivably would ultimately throw the kingdom into existential crisis.
Thirdly, and to me most importantly of all, for the first time, the Houthi have made clear, as b highlighted in his report, that this strike had inside help. Honorable and free people who also know exactly every military and probably political weakness of Saudi Arabia are now in action to help the external force completely destroy, if necessary, the mutual enemy which is the ruling Saud clan. A form of insurrection on the ground under the cover of legitimate warfare between nations may be the perfect way to do what, perhaps, several million indigenous people may have dreamed of for generations.
All of this has been intentionally, deliberately, eloquently and unmistakably conveyed from this action. Or so it seems to me.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 15 2019 4:19 utc | 114

We should not assume that this attack won’t be followed up with others, unless KSA surrenders.
CNBC:

Yemen’s Houthi rebels claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was one of their largest attacks ever inside the kingdom.
“We promise the Saudi regime that our future operations will expand and be more painful as long as its aggression and siege continue,” a Houthi spokesman said. The attack deployed 10 drones, the Houthis said. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 15 2019 4:19 utc | 115

@60 laguerre quote “Trump doesn’t want war, though the neo-cons do. He wouldn’t have sacked Bolton if he were open to it.”
sorry laguerre, but this is a pile of steaming bs.. trump doesn’t want war, but he is in bed with israel and guess what? israel wants war yesterday with iran… so, i just can’t buy this ongoing ‘good guy, bad guy’ routine the usa throws up regularly… it is a pile of bs… i am surprised you entertain it.. it is like drinking pat lang trump koolaid.. stupid… i am with jr on this..
@106 a user… fp promotes war from the usa vantage point.. the article is more of the same – trump and the usa are “”wuss” for letting iran walk all over them.. may as well have been written in tel aviv as washington… go to war with iran is the ongoing message..
@ 119 grieved… just maybe the houthi would like to take back the part of yemen stolen from them in the 20’s by ksa… that would be a good start..
ksa is very vulnerable at this point.. i have been predicting the demise of saudi arabia for some time centered around 2020.. it is looking more and more likely…

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2019 4:40 utc | 116

Venturing outside of the Yemen/KSA theater, it might be worth revisiting Sharmine Narwani’s July interview on Renegade Inc:
What’s the real plan with Iran?
She makes several things clear, including that the military axis of Iraq, Iran, Syria and Hezbollah are committed to each other’s defense in the event of an external attack, by the US or Israel or any other player. This is an existential matter: these populations live where they live, and are not going away. An attack on one is now an attack on all. I think this axis extends to Palestine and to Yemen also, although this is less clearly formalized as yet.
She points out that the world has long understood that the next big war would not be conventional warfare, because of nuclear weapons. It would always be unconventional and by proxy, and so it is now in Syria and the greater region, between the west and Russia and China. These wars are still playing out between the powers.
She also reminds us why the US will not attack Iran, because the Pentagon has been utterly and decisively defeated in every simulation of such a war that it has gamed in this century.
~~
I believe this completely too. The Pentagon will NEVER go to war against Iran directly, and we know that even its indirect actions are severely restrained because Iran, which doesn’t lie when it speaks of its defense posture and its military doctrine, has promised an immediate response to even the slightest US aggression, and this response will be disproportionately damaging to the US, or at least to its interests. I believe Iran will do this, and I believe the Pentagon believes this too.
(I also believe that Iran is clever enough to damage US interests in a way that very much hurts but without triggering a “wounded pride” reaction that impels the US Congress to order the Pentagon to respond militarily – but we shall see.)
So we have a US that dare not attack Iran and an Israel that dare not attack Hezbollah. And politicians equally craven in both places that have unbridled license to bluster until their chins are wet with drool. But nothing on the ground. Not now, not ever.
The US fracking phenomenon is temporary, driven by a debt bubble that is set to collapse by 2023, as commentator David reminded us here a few months back. So it returns to hydrocarbons from the usual sources, with the potential absence at times of Saudi Arabia.
These are a few of the elements of the global scene that impinge on the immediate situation. What seems increasingly clear is that the inhabitants of the region have escalation dominance over the world oil situation, and the world oil situation has escalation dominance over the global economy. That gets a lot of people nervous.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 15 2019 4:54 utc | 117

Al Sadr Has always come across as an independent player and perhaps with the veiw of independence for Iraq of – free from foreign entanglements type thing. The multi polar world is taking shape, Erdogan has seen this and put his eggs in the multi-polar basket, and perhaps Al Sadr is looking at it in the same way. Iran, in diplomacy and defence has greatly advanced in recent years. Its allies seem very much like allies rather than vassals. I think Sadr has made his choice.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 5:15 utc | 118

It is puzzling to me that China via Xinhuanet is posting the Pompeo claim that the attack was done by Iran in spite of the Houthi saying they did it.
I read about Trump announcing a mutual defense pact with Occupied Palestine but see that as support for the election on the 17th where Bibi’s hold on power is at stake but from what I have read, if he loses the power will go to even more strident nationalists.
At ZH they have a posting about Charles Kupperman (the ??? incoming National Security Advisor) who in the past, when working for Reagan was quoted as saying the nuclear war with Russia was winnable and just a matter of physics. Who know what he thinks now that China is backing Russia.
We are in WWIII with lots of fronts and players in action. I continue to believe this war will be decided before the 2020 US (s)election and that Trump will take the US into bankruptcy because that is one of the only major arrows in the war quiver that the US has left……it is as close to blowing the world up and letting “Gawd” decide as it gets, IMO.
Levity aside, who has the movie rights for all this? Is Hollywood drooling over the potential blockbusters?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 15 2019 5:17 utc | 119

119 Grieved
I think all that needs to happen is for the establishment in SA to be so rattled by insecurity that internal forces in SA will tear it apart from within.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Sep 15 2019 5:18 utc | 120

james 124
Patrick Armstrong’s Trumps “Inconsistent Inconsistencies” keeps coming back. Trump is a zionist and american exceptionalist, but that “Inconsistent Inconsistencies” keeps coming back.
Some of what is happening reminds me of Erdogan a few years back. Like a rabbit looking for a hole in a fence to dart through.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/17/trump-mysteries-inconsistent-inconsistencies/

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 5:43 utc | 121

@ james
On thinking about it, the likeness to Erdogan does not convey what I am thinking.
Trump is perhaps prodding and poking looking for a weak spot. If he finds a weak point he will exploit it, if not he will back off, and I think with the backup position of keeping a good US defensive position if their hegemonic empire falls. I wont bet the farm on this theory but its what I am leaning towards at the moment.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 6:01 utc | 122

Surely by now it can be stated with certainty that these missiles/drones came from the south (Yemen) or the north (Iraq). I am confident they did not come from the east (Iran). The public reports of hearing drones etc overhead are unhelpful to get any sense of direction.
I guess the KSA is in uproar in the ruling class. I sense a coup could be imminent if the military thinks it is about to lose privilege and face.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 15 2019 6:01 utc | 123

It is ironic that the US with the most expensive military in the world and a finely honed international system of irrational economic sanctions is unable to get Iranian oil exports “to zero”, while the Houthi’s with modest means are able to significantly disrupt Saudi oil production.
It is obvious the Saudi rulers have not invested enough money in US made military equipment!
Iranian “malign behavior”. The gift that keeps on giving for the US MIC.
With Trump preparing for the 2020 elections, he will do his utmost not to push the US economy into the abyss of a recession. The success of US foreign policy is measured by the amount of $$$ they pay per gallon and the number of bodybags filled with US servicemen (or should I say servicepersons?) that may or may not return home.
With Bolton out, the neocons will try everything to get Trump sucked into something ASAP. A mutual agression ehhhhh defence treaty with Israel might do the job.
Bolton is probably doubling down behind the scenes to create a situation where the US is “forced” to act to protect it’s vital interests.
His cocksucking buddy Lindsey Graham is throwing some oil on the fire in the Middle-East while Bolton prepares to rise from the ashes as a foreign policy phoenix.

Posted by: Symen Danziger | Sep 15 2019 6:14 utc | 124

#Proftel | Sep 15 2019 4:27 utc | 122
Yep that is indeed at the fundament of what the Houthis achieved.
I seem to remember there was a heavily pre hit publicised, 7-drone attack on Saudi oil installations a couple of weeks back, nothing as effective as this tho.
That leads one to conclude the Houthis (for I am certain it was them as Iranians aren’t so foolish as to expose themselves by launching from Iran especially when the air defense system makes it the most difficult way in) learned a coupla lessons.
One, save the boasting until the job has been done properly and Two, throwing a bunch of darts at a board is an effective counter for somewhat inaccurate navigation systems.
Even with a 50 foot diameter center of explosion (yeah I’m not up on the vocab of war-mongers so don’t know the terminology), unless the last few hundred meters of a missile/drone/aerial torpedo can be navigated with 100% accuracy, something that really requires a bird’s eye view & manual control, as well as gps and inertial navigation, attacking a huge oil refinery is going to be a raffle for anyone. The more is better american imperialists solve this by having mammoth warheads, but that option isn’t possible for Houthi who may have only had one or two of their drones hit at positions so critical these fires were lit.
Oh one more thing. It is interesting to speculate if those who claim “as if a mob of cave dwelling ragheads could do that to us” when pushing out their tendentious nastiness about 911, are now lauding the efficacy & efficiency of the Houthi response to Saudi.
Ignorance of that kind is rarely inerrant or consistent, but rather twisted around bias to suit each day’s fruitless attempt at perspicacity.

Posted by: A User | Sep 15 2019 6:22 utc | 125

My girlfriend mentioned this without even knowing the context, this was the nail in the coffin for American hegemony in the Middle East. Iranian drones and the new Air Force/defense of the Shia resistance axis will soon to deployed throughout all Iranian proxies in the Middle East evening out the Air Force gap the mainly infantry forces were missing this means no more Israeli, Saudi, USA terror bombing unless f-35 is truly able to avoid these . USA, maybe through having its drone technology in non state actors hands, hts, isis, Kurds and states Israel Saudi uae will be able to maintain dominance when coupled with advanced warplanes but the drones and missiles are a low cost equalizer to the expensive warplanes that Iran’s ragtag militias can not maintain and fly. Turkey has its own effective drone program and is able to backup and arm its proxies usually in support of USA goals as is highlighted by drone attacks launched on hmeimmem base as well as drone attacks on Lna bases and commanders. Us bases in Middle East are no longer safe nor are any us employees/contractors/mercenary’s at high value ecenomic, military or symbolic targets. Saudi Arabia has purchased weapons but has no domestic missile production and little overall domestic weapon abilities, no real army only defense is other nations drunk off its money and isis/ al Qaeda, will they be brought to saudi south to hold land?saudis should send isis into North Yemen border, only infantry crazy enough to hold houthis and launch pointless attacks that constantly fail think al safa. Houthis will drive saudi off all of North Yemen and into Jizan Asir, not surprised if saudi will lose Mekka, or eastern province to houthis/hezbollah before saudis make a deal with Russia for survival and Russia finally pacifies this evil entity by taking control of oil for a deal between Russia/Saudi/ Houthi.

Posted by: Garrett | Sep 15 2019 6:35 utc | 126

A User.
US has KSA by the balls when it comes to 9 11. I suspect KSA did list in Aramco in US because because the 9 11 dog could bite at any time.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 15 2019 6:56 utc | 127

This cant be Saudi false flag. To show everyone half of the Aramco income can be wiped out at anytime before the IPO is just utterly insane. The other regional players and Israel have much more incentive to do this. even the US has plenty of incentive to do this with their 4mbpd exports. Come to think of it oil at 200 may just solve the budget deficit of US.
Bolton out just before this, coincidence or response?

Posted by: Nickolas | Sep 15 2019 10:45 utc | 128

I think the US has finally gone off the rails, Charles Kupperman, appointed to his new post on Tuesday after Trump fired his John Bolton from the job, argued some time ago it was possible to win a nuclear war “in the classical sense,” and that the notion of total destruction stemming from such a superpower conflict was inaccurate. He said that in a scenario in which 20 million people died in the U.S. as opposed to 150 million, the nation could then emerge as the stronger side and prevail in its objectives.
His argument was that with enough planning and civil defense measures, such as “a certain layer of dirt and some reinforced construction materials,” the effects of a nuclear war could be limited and that U.S. would be able to fairly quickly rebuild itself after an all-out conflict with the then-Soviet Union.
• If the objective in a war is to try to destroy as many Soviet civilians and as many American civilians as is feasible, and the casualty levels approached 150 million on each side, then it’s going to be tough to say you have a surviving nation after that. But depending on how the nuclear war is fought, it could mean the difference between 150 casualties and 20 million casualties. I think that is a significant difference, and if the country loses 20 million people, you may have a chance of surviving after that.
• I think it is possible to win, in the classical sense. It means that it is clear after the war that one side is stronger than the other side, the weaker side is going to accede to the demands of the stronger side.
Winning in the Classical Sense
We lost 20 million, they lost 150 million.
Let’s call that “winning in the “classical sense”. [Zerohedge]
Yes we have seen this before in the film ‘Dr Strangelove
“Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.”
George C. Scott – Gen. ‘Buck’ Turgidson

Posted by: Harry Law | Sep 15 2019 11:01 utc | 129

So the US is accusing Iran of staging the attacks.
“‘Maximum lies’: Iran rejects US’ claim it attacked Saudi oil facilities, warns it’s ready for war”
https://www.rt.com/news/468857-iran-us-drone-attack/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=RSS

Posted by: Barovsky | Sep 15 2019 11:05 utc | 130

Best news I’ve read all weekend! Great to see the Houthis give the Saudis a bloody nose! Hopefully both of the Saudi oil refineries hit by the Houthis will be knocked out of service. It’s David vs. Goliath, and Goliath is getting his ass handed to him on a plate 🙂

Posted by: deschutes | Sep 15 2019 11:12 utc | 131

Considering where it is published FP’s Iran Owns the Persian Gulf Now is an interesting read.
Posted by: A User | Sep 15 2019 2:24 utc
Oh, please! The same canned fast-food never altering set of politically correct talking points.
It is hard to know what the Iranians are up to; perhaps they are trying to force a negotiation to alleviate the “maximum pressure” the Trump administration has sought to apply, or maybe their actions simply reflect Tehran’s fundamental hostility to international norms. For his part, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif declared that Iran was taking a stand for multilateralism. Whatever they want, the IRGC’s commanders must by now understand that they can pretty much do anything they want in the Persian Gulf without fear of reprisal. This is because Trump has made it clear in word and deed that the United States is on the way out of the region. If the United States intended to stay in the Gulf and fulfill what many had long believed to be a commitment to keep the sea lanes open, it would not be so feckless.
What is new there at all?

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 15 2019 12:16 utc | 132

If we consider the pompous one’s assertions to be accurate, that the attack was launched by and from Iran, then that scenario is much more damning of American military hardware and competence than the stated scenario that this was a Houthi counter-attack.
First is that from Pompeo’s assertion we know that neither the Saudi nor American military assets in the region saw anything coming at all. The “…no proof it was the Houthis…” argument bluntly admits this ignorance. If they had any evidence (radar or optical tracking data, for instance), then that is where they should logically begin assembling a picture of what happened. This statement by Pompeo demonstrates that they don’t have that evidence and are now working strictly from conjecture and raw guesswork (kinda how America’s misnamed “intelligence community” concluded that Russia hacked Clinton’s emails: “We think it is something they would like to do so it must have been them!”).
But worse, cruise missiles from Iran would have flown over the Persian gulf. There is no terrain over the open seas to hide behind as the water is essentially flat to radar, and that entire area is saturated with hardware to track everything that moves. If Iranian cruise missiles were able to sneak through that without being detected then either America’s detection hardware sucks or Iran’s stealth tech is better than America’s… or maybe both.
The route from Yemen to the oil refineries, on the other hand, has hills and structures and other things to provide low flying cruise missiles with cover. As b points out, there is less intense surveillance of that route as well since that is not the direction anyone was expecting an attack to come from.
Pompeo’s claim that the Iranians did it would mean that the Iranians were able to pull off the attack undetected almost literally under the noses of forces equipped with America’s best military technologies. I am not sure why the pompous one would be willing to make that claim. That’s not good for weapons sales.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 15 2019 12:53 utc | 133

>>>>: somebody | Sep 14 2019 20:44 utc | 53
Notice the “axis of evil” marketing in that article. In the west they’re cruise missiles but when used by brown people, they’re suicide drones – so evil, just like the SVBIEDs beloved of western-supported jihadists.
>>>>: flankerbandit | Sep 14 2019 21:13 utc | 59

….at that small turbojet engine mounted on top…

A few years back a British aeronautical company used a standard off-the-shelf turbocharger, added a combustion chamber between the compressor and turbine stages and hey presto, a cheap turbojet engine for powering target drones. Maybe these drones are powered by BMW or Mercedes.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 15 2019 12:55 utc | 134

On claims like “can’t be Saudi false flag” and “Russia may take control of Saudi oil” – that all is based on a premise that Saudi do have oil. Which is not granted.
There is the term, e-ROI. Efficiency of oil extraction in physic terms, e-nergy.
How much we should drill; what machinery would we need to build, deliver, operate; what fossils would we need to extract to build those machines, etc.
Saudi were gifted with huge deposit of easy-to-extract high e-ROI oil. But this was ravishly extracted for almost century now, it is near depletion.
There are “hard” oil fields in KSA too, but the lower e-ROI their would probably move KSA to the range of other traders like Russia and Venezuela. They would not have that unique combination of great chemical quality and cheap cost, that they enjoyed for century (and so did Western World).
KSA for years were negotiating building Russian nuclear plants, which hints KSA can not long term sustain their luxurious life way burning oil and gas for power as they used to. And they know it.
What we do not know is how much of “easy” oil they still possess. Is it measured in months or years, so to say.
Aramco IPO would probably make them more transparent about their oil assets, but it sid not happen.
So, back to start:
1. It may be at loss for any external power to make long term investments to KSA security, being paid by shares in KSA oil. Frankly, i would not see why Russia should seek explicit control of KSA oil other than if it would be free gift (it will not)
2. If drying up if “easy” oil is closer than we think, then reducing extraction might be a way to prolong KSA status of reference oil Brent exporter. However there should be some pretext for reduction that would not sell the shortage of remaining deposits. And being attacked by evul Persians can fit long-term Aramco interests. Giving them “innocent” pretext for slowing down sucking oil out.
I do not say it was, but i think it is in the realm of possibility, and is at least not worse than USA/Israel did the attack conspiracies.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 15 2019 12:58 utc | 135

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2019 4:40 utc | 116

sorry laguerre, but this is a pile of steaming bs.. trump doesn’t want war,

My main point was not about Trump’s bellicosity, so I didn’t bother developing the point.
But if we have to go over this again, it is self-evident that Trump doesn’t personally want real war, not like Bolton. Trump certainly likes conflict – sanctions, trade wars, even single explosions of volleys of cruise missiles, as long as the US pays no price. But not real war, which might go on a long time, and mean he has to sit in front of a situation screen as Obama liked to do, instead of sitting in his apartment watching Fox news all day, or weekending at Mar-a-Lago. He didn’t retaliate against Iran for shooting down the drone, because that could have led to war (as opposed to the cruise missile volley on Syria, and even there he may have learnt since, and won’t do it again).
Being buddies with Israel doesn’t change anything. Israeli interests are different from Trump’s.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 15 2019 13:04 utc | 136

The icing on this cake would be that the drones were launched from within SA by opponents of the regime. Yes, that’ll make ’em sweat. Knock out the regime and the rule book gets re-written.

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Sep 15 2019 13:05 utc | 137

Robert McMaster, you mean like 9/11 knocked out US regime, right? 😀

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 15 2019 13:09 utc | 138

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Sep 15 2019 13:05 utc | 137
I don’t know that the Saudi internal opposition is that well organised. The people who did it were exceedingly well organised. It was a devastating attack. That doesn’t happen by chance.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 15 2019 13:09 utc | 139

“On cherche pas midi à 14h” which is french for roughly “dont look for noon at 2 o’clock”. In other words, Ansarullah have warned for months of attacks on KSA and even displayed a few months which weapons would be used. Having a few Yemeni nationals hiding in Zaydi friendly Shia areas for targeting or logistics is easy-peasy..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 15 2019 13:40 utc | 140

Bolton is out for a real simple reason. He was sponsored by Sheldon Adelson. Adelson is dying. With Adelson out of the picture no need to have such a personally offensive and abrasive jerk hanging around the office. The acting NSA is just that, a temporary placeholder.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 15 2019 13:48 utc | 141

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 15 2019 13:48 utc | 141
It seems that Adelson no longer supports Netanyahu.
So Trump will deliver on the one state solution but only after Netanyahu was defeated.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 15 2019 14:11 utc | 142

US is Ready to Tap Strategic Petroleum Reserve Amid Attacks on Saudi Oil Facilities
So much for the country that brags about its shale oil reserves…

Posted by: vk | Sep 15 2019 14:13 utc | 143

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 15 2019 12:55 utc | 134
I checked that out, it seems there is a technological difference, like cruise missiles being one way, drones acting like a plane.
Main difference I suppose is that you can order drones via amazon.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 15 2019 14:33 utc | 144

The idea of the using the direction of the final approach to determine the origin of the drones is nonsense. The direction of the final approach is a function of the drone’s programming to maximize effectiveness of the strike and to minimize detection and interdiction of the attack.

Posted by: Othello786 | Sep 15 2019 15:17 utc | 145

@128 Nickolas
I am with you on this one. Too much of a coincidence especially when Saudis were making overtures to peace negotiations.
Then, on queue, Lindsey Graham comes out and calls for attack on Iranian facilites and an all out war.
I smell the rotten stench of Mossad and Netanyahu.

Posted by: Uncle Jon | Sep 15 2019 15:41 utc | 146

re: William Gruff | Sep 15 2019 12:53 utc @ 133
“The route from Yemen to the oil refineries, on the other hand, has hills and structures and other things to provide low flying cruise missiles with cover.”
The area most likely used by the drones is called the *Rub al’Khali* or in English the *Empty Quarter*.
It’s the straightest path as the-bird-flies.
And, only sand & sand dunes.
-The Rub’ al Khali desert is the largest contiguous sand desert in the world, encompassing most of the southern third of the Arabian Peninsula. The desert covers some including parts of Saudi Arabia, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen. It is part of the larger Arabian Desert.Wikipedia-
Like I said earlier, I’ve worked in the area in the 1970’s.
Directly adjacent to the Rub al’Khali.
In Arabic, “Ma’fee /Maa’feesh”.
In English, nothing/there’s nothing.
Great place to f_ck with anyone’s radar.
Satellites missed them too I guess.
Cheers X-

Posted by: Veritas X- | Sep 15 2019 15:43 utc | 147

1. I don’t know what the weather was like at the time but both the US and others (or at least I think so) are supposed to have global coverage for significant launch events like ICBM launches. Without such a thing MAD doesn’t really work.
2. I don’t know if such coverage has been improved over the years to include other energetic events like smaller missile launches (however I’m fairly confident it can detect commercial passenger aircraft blowing up mid-air, that’s off topic though).
3. My point would be that there’s a big difference between some US doofus saying “we don’t know” and no one actually knowing.
Would any of you tell some civilian retards “in charge” anything if it increases the likelihood you or yours will die? I wouldn’t.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2019 15:59 utc | 148

Follow up to my comment above, Middle East Plan according to Oded Yinon is going forward. If they could only get Iran out of the way. Good luck with that.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

Posted by: Uncle Jon | Sep 15 2019 16:00 utc | 149

The Aramco IPO was always a longshot, before bonesaw. I don’t see any wall st or city bankers backing an IPO of a company based in a country where the crazy king is a known billionare hostage taker.
They had to send bill gates in the negotiate the release of prince al, in one of the funniest and least examined events in recent history.

Posted by: bob | Sep 15 2019 16:36 utc | 150

I just remembered that the Russians complained very clearly and publicly (it later turned out that something had gone wrong with a Norwegian notification to Russia or something like that) about a small Norwegian rocket launch along the western Norwegian coast or in the Norwegian sea many years ago so they without doubt have the capability to detect relatively small launch signatures (at the very least in that part of the world and it’s over the horizon for Russia given that horizons are quite close and all that).
It might have been as far back as during the Yeltsin years.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2019 16:54 utc | 151

@vk #49
The Saudis are adhering to the deal first made in the late 1970s, but that deal was where American dollars derived from Saudi sales to the US were recycled.
Sure, the US would be perfectly happy to have Chinese buy US dollars to buy Saudi oil, which are then recycled by the Saudis into Treasuries, but it is much less clear that China is ok with that, long term. China is the single largest importer of oil today.
Clearly China is laying the groundwork to abrogate the petrodollar – at least in China’s purchasing of oil – as can be seen via the various Shanghai commodities platforms.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 15 2019 17:29 utc | 152

@Sunny Runny Burger #150
I’m not an expert, but there is a huge difference between detecting an orbital/suborbital rocket launch vs. a drone or a surface to surface missile launch.
There’s also the location, as you mentioned. I really doubt anybody monitors the Saudi desert for missile launches.
European coastline, however, is prime SLBM territory.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 15 2019 17:32 utc | 153

I located the origins of the five smoke plumes seen on the NASA satellite image from September 14th. The biggest fire is in an overflow pond. The other smoke plumes may be from flares where excess gas or other light hydrocarbons are being burnt.
From north to south:

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Sep 15 2019 17:36 utc | 154

This is the begining of the end,
We don’t need peace at all
We need US to be defeated.

Posted by: optron | Sep 15 2019 18:05 utc | 155

…”U.S. Ambassador John #Abizaid: “The U.S. strongly condemns today’s drone attacks against oil facilities in Abqaiq and Khurais. These attacks against critical infrastructure endanger civilians, are unacceptable, and sooner or later will result in innocent lives being lost.”…
That quote from Abizaid is too rich for words. Does he actually think that no one knows about the tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Yemen who have lost their lives thanks the aggressive actions of the Saudi Arabia/UAE alliance backed by the U.S. and the UK? The memory hole may be deep, but not that deep. Or perhaps he simply regards Yemeni lives and deaths as too insignificant to deserve mentioning.

Posted by: Rob | Sep 15 2019 18:48 utc | 156

C1ue good of you to mention SLBMs because those are not quite as easy to detect as ICBMs but certainly something they all would want to detect, thus making it more likely that they could detect something like a cruise missile boost phase.
As for geography if they do detect from space (the US does at least and as far as detecting heat signatures for early warning of launch events go it’s the only thing that seems to make sense) then one doesn’t turn off the systems but keep them running. To my knowledge the satellites are not in geosynchronous orbit but quite a bit higher so the entire constellation pans.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2019 19:22 utc | 157

@ Posted by: c1ue | Sep 15 2019 17:29 utc | 151
China is ok with the Petrodollar scheme because for now because it’s two birds with one stone for them: they make the American economy ever more dependent on them (thus avoiding the necessity of an aggressive militarization of their economy, as was the case with the USSR) while, at the same time, they essentially finance their own manufacturing industry through American rising consumption (Walmart effect).

Posted by: vk | Sep 15 2019 19:35 utc | 158

Sunny Runny @148 & 150
DSP satellites reportedly could detect jet bombers in afterburner by their IR plume. But IMHO no way that would extend to subsonic cruise missiles or UAVs. They may be able to see the the newer hypersonic cruise missiles that have been reported? And if the Quds-1 has that added jet turbine then maybe, but that is pure speculation on my part.
Lookdown radars like AWACS could detect them. But they’d have to be constantly in the air and specifically looking for them.
Of greater interest for detection of cruise missile and UAV is PCL or Passive Coherent Location AKA passive radar. It has been studied for years. I have no clue as to whether there are any operational systems fielded. But if there are would we give them to the Saudis? I think not.

Posted by: GeneO | Sep 15 2019 19:43 utc | 159

@121 / 122 peter au… thanks..he is definitely a trickster, game player like erdogan, but i too think they are not the same…perhaps as laguerre says, trump is not as adamant on war as i like to think he is… what has he done? kept the troops in afganistan, iraq and syria, continued to talk trade wars or more with china, venezuala, russia and etc.. etc… it must be tough being the president of the usa working for the war party and not trying to actively start more wars…
@136 laguerre.. thanks.. okay.. i hear what you are saying, but as dltravers points out in the new open thread @8 – the usa has been taken over by the war party.. the only sure thing at this point is the usa’s demise.. it is not if, but when… i still think this good cop, bad cop routine is intentional.. what was the reason trump had to hire bolton? what is the reason he is going to hire someone worse to replace him? the usa is incapable of any position other then one of open hostility to any competitor..trump would be better suited running walmart then the usa at this point, but maybe that is it.. the usa isn’t much more then a walmart according to all the brains that want to make america great again.. they can export this walmart / war party crap into the dumpster where the usa is presently headed..

Posted by: james | Sep 15 2019 20:03 utc | 160

Saudi arabia might have a ruling change but a collapse and invasion by the likes of Houthis is near zero in probability, unless the US forces are smart enough to really try an attack on iran or the houthis want to have a never ending war where they could lose. these kinds of attacks are meant to end wars not to sustain them indefinitely to drag it out for personal emotional reasons. that’s what the usa is good at in afghanistan dragging it out on such notions of….. emotional hubris. the houthis even if they destroyed all of saudi petroleum outputs could still very well lose the war. they seem to have their plan together and it is going well for them, their leaders and planners have their people’s best interests in their strategies.
USA might be used to losing wars but they won’t be that stupid to capitulate their entire middle east armed forces by having a dragged out war with iran and possibly having saudi arabia become iran led. those are just more rumors of wars. if Us doesn’t go to Iran, then S.A. won’t fall the way some on here wants.
these rumors, I see it as just a way to keep oil prices inflated. When US was in Iraq, it was the closest it ever got to Iran and it didn’t end well for them in Iraq.

Posted by: jason | Sep 15 2019 20:19 utc | 161

Oil fields that have produced for 60 years plus are the most reliable.

Posted by: steve | Sep 15 2019 20:26 utc | 162

>>>> somebody | Sep 15 2019 14:33 utc | 144
What is the point of these devices returning home. Gives away where they were launched from and reduces the explosive load quite considerable. Also fitting gear to release bombs complicates them increasing the empty weight and reducing range/explosive load.
Israel used suicide drones against Beiruit because they can be controlled from Israel aircraft flying 12nm off Lebanon. At ranges the Houthi devices operated, you’d need a satellite system to control the a drone and I don’t think the Houthis have managed to launch any satellites.
These were fire and forget systems and are effectively cruise missiles rather than just drones.
BTW, this is a warning to Israel as much as anything, because if the Houthi’s have this capability then you can be sure Hezbollah does as well

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 15 2019 20:39 utc | 163

The commodities exchange opened, Brent is already 10 USD higher than Friday’s quotes, chasing 71 dollars per barrel right now (was 60 at close on Friday). Somebody’s making big bucks right now…

Posted by: BG | Sep 15 2019 22:06 utc | 164

re:100
Do you believe it is a given that Russia would oblige a request for such?

Posted by: augrr | Sep 15 2019 22:54 utc | 165

The fundamental problem here is that the KSA, like most other middle eastern societies, is ruled by shame and honor, and MBS just got a very public and very nasty bloody nose.
It’s like the mean kid in school decided to pick on the skinny new freshman in the halls, and got a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick for his troubles. Right in front of his gang and everyone else. He can’t be seen to back down now.

Posted by: Sid Finster | Sep 15 2019 23:15 utc | 166

GeneO I’m only speculating as well and only considering cruise missiles in a solid fuel boost phase at launch (I personally don’t think cruise missiles should be called drones or UAVs but the Houthis might consider them to be the same sort of thing, I don’t know).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 15 2019 23:43 utc | 167

Trump tweet (about an hour ago):

Saudi Arabia oil supply was attacked. There is reason to believe that we know the culprit, are locked and loaded depending on verification, but are waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of this attack, and under what terms we would proceed!

Emphasis is mine.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 16 2019 0:14 utc | 168

Sunny Runny –
There is some confusion as to whether the attack was by Quds-1 cruise missiles, or Sammad-3 UAVs, or a mix of both. Each probably has the range and the accuracy. The Houthis reportedly have both.
As far as I know you may well be correct about boost phase of cruise missiles being detectable by IR signature.

Posted by: GeneO | Sep 16 2019 0:38 utc | 169

So the navigation system quite may be 3 staged:
1. Use satellite navigation in friendly/neutral area
2. Use inertial system when GPS gets jammed or altered
3. Use imagery + ideal maps library on the final approach
P.S. there is still one more navigational option in clear-sky nights: looking at the stars and horizons 😀
Posted by: Arioch | Sep 15 2019 0:12 utc | 84
To give some context, consider this NYT headline:
Yemen’s Houthi Rebels Attack Saudi Oil Facilities, Escalating Tensions in Gulf
By Vivian Yee
May 14, 2019
I am lazy now, but I recall that there were few previous attacks from Yemen on oil facilities, with somewhat modest success. It seems that we see a learning curve, the precision of the attacks is improving. The technological background can be as Arioch described, the components of the guidance systems may be individually perfected and combined better than before, but whatever the reason, it seams that the attacks are supported by a very good team of engineers that can design and implement improvements after each round.
One may ponder about the identity of the engineers. Yemen has its own cadre, but in the previous years they were showing expertise on using Soviet era missiles with some tweaks, so they got additional training and/or assistance. I would guess, both. Another problem is smuggling the components, this is probably easier when Yemeni southern separatists supported by UAE fight with KSA supported “Hadi loyalists”, and UAE/KSA collaboration in maritime blockade gone.
My conclusion is that this attack is less important for its own destructiveness, but more as a harbinger of a qualitative change in the balance of threats. The very sanguine reaction of oil markets may be predicated on beliefs that MbS will fold his cards before his export will be severely curtailed.
———
It is a bit puzzling to me how good defenses can be in the face of the style of attacks we are discussing. Russian base in Hmeim faces attacks from small missiles and drones and so far, they cope well. However, the perimeter of effective defense seem rather small, while oil facilities of KSA are humungous and widely spread. Mind you, it is not just MbS that eats the crow now but his technological assistants and mercs have eggs on their faces too (UK, USA etc.), so it can be that the geographic spread of the targets and flat surrounding terrain may be difficult to defend with 2019 technology.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 16 2019 0:51 utc | 170

@Jackrabbit | Sep 14 2019 22:43 utc | 76
The Houthies acknowledged that their oil processing facility attack had local help. How much do they really know about those locals?
Most of Saudi Arabia’s oil is in the country’s Shia areas. The people there may not have been treated too well. (Information on this issue has probably been deliberately made sparse.) The Houthis are also Shia.

Posted by: Cyril | Sep 16 2019 1:00 utc | 171

@ Cyril | Sep 16 2019 1:00 utc | 170
I should have added….
If it is indeed true that the Houthis had help from the Shia in Saudi Arabia, then that is yet another splitting headache for the clown prince.

Posted by: Cyril | Sep 16 2019 1:05 utc | 172

@Robert McMaster | Sep 15 2019 13:05 utc | 137
The icing on this cake would be that the drones were launched from within SA by opponents of the regime. Yes, that’ll make ’em sweat. Knock out the regime and the rule book gets re-written.
Indeed.
@Arioch | Sep 15 2019 13:09 utc | 138
Robert McMaster, you mean like 9/11 knocked out US regime, right? 😀
If 9/11 had knocked out half the US’s income, then yes, Washington would have been in deep trouble.

Posted by: Cyril | Sep 16 2019 1:12 utc | 173

Cyril @170, 171
I know that Saudi oil is located in predominantly Shia areas. The facility that was attacked seems to be located away from populated areas and the area must be well policed.
The thrust of my comment was that covert help may have been provided to ensure that an attack succeeded and thus provide casus belli for war against Iran. Both Saudis and Israelis want such as war – as long as USA can be dragged into it.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 16 2019 1:26 utc | 174

If it is indeed true that the Houthis had help from the Shia in Saudi Arabia, then that is yet another splitting headache for the clown prince.
Posted by: Cyril | Sep 16 2019 1:05 utc | 171
There are more candidates for the “noble and courageous” helpers. Few years ago the computer network of Aramco was frozen for a day, and Americans claimed that it had to be an Iranian worm, because (laugh, my little children) the worm copied code of an American worm used to sabotage Iran. A worm has to be injected into the network by an insider. Such an insider can also get hold of accurate maps of Aramco facilities, and perhaps even info on the current status of air defenses.
Saudi Shia are an obvious class of suspects, but probably for that very reason they are not widely present among Aramco insiders. However, a larger proportion of Saudi work force originates from Yemen. While Yemenis in KSA may be overtly Wahhabi, like the Yemenite clan of ben Ladin, many can cherish their Yemeni identity, mind you that even Sunnis of Yemen are quite different from Wahhabis and there is a lot of mutual loathing. In short, there are many types of KSA insiders that can be inclined to cooperate with Yemeni and Iranian intelligence.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 16 2019 1:31 utc | 175

Has it been established beyond doubt that drones were employed? Haven’t studied the matter well, but saboteurs might have carried this out. Plenty of disgruntled Shites in KSA.

Posted by: jfrchitect | Sep 16 2019 1:32 utc | 176

Just came across this July 7 report on the Quds-1 cruise missile…the authors also note the engine appears to be the Czech TJ-100…

Posted by: flankerbandit | Sep 16 2019 1:34 utc | 177

Just took a screenshot from that video of the Quds-1 cruise missile…
The TJ-100 engine is just over 2 ft long [10.7 inch diameter], not including that blue engine inlet, so we can scale the fuel tank to be about 6 ft long.
If we assume a fuselage diameter of 16 inches, that gives a volume of 8.4 cubic ft, which is 237 liters or 63 gallons. Kerosene weighs about 7 lbs per gallon so that is fuel capacity of 440 lbs. Could be closer to my original estimate of 500 lbs if the dimensions are a bit bigger than what I am eyeballing.
We know that’s the fuel tank because it must be about centered on the wing, in order for the craft’s center of gravity to remain in the same position as fuel is burned during flight.
The center of gravity would be right about at the wing’s leading edge, and just ahead of the wing’s center of lift, which would be the wing’s quarter-chord point.
For flight stability the weight of the warhead up front is balanced by the engine [and probably avionics] out back, which is lighter than the warhead, but farther aft of the CG, so a longer moment arm and thus a neutral balance about the CG point.
The tail looks like a conventional aircraft tailplane that would provide a downforce in flight to balance the upward lift of the wing.
So that figure of ‘at least’ 150 km range that the Houthis cited is quite an understatement. Even with 440 lbs of fuel this thing will fly over 1,200 km.
Just looking at it I would say the warhead is probably not more than about 200 lbs, but a more precise estimate of the overall dimensions, engine position relative to CG etc would let us compute a better estimate.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Sep 16 2019 2:42 utc | 178

In the past, expensive navigation has kept small states from using drones. Now the guidance system is the least expensive part. Radio navigation is over a century old. How many sources does any country provide for targeting itself? Cell towers can be pinged by any cell phone. No state is going to jam gps where there is aviation in use. Radio and TV stations continue to broadcast 24/7 as well as radar systems. All commercial aircraft and ships broadcast their exact coordinates every few seconds. Even individual cell phones and wifi routers could be detected by a drone overhead. Of course there are vhf and uhf repeaters that could be pinged at great distances at altitude. Then there are cb and ham radios, marine radios, and good old aviation beacons.
.

Posted by: Old Engineer | Sep 16 2019 3:08 utc | 179

A minor point, but I remember hearing from a guy who was an oil field worker in a civil war situation in the seventies that if you wanted to blow up an oil storage tank aim for the top of the vessel where the headspace provides an explosive atmosphere. Lower down you punch a hole and release some liquid.

Posted by: Bernalkid | Sep 16 2019 3:22 utc | 180

By the way, there are US military bases in Saudi Arabia. And didn’t they notice anything until it was too late? Huh

Posted by: Nick | Sep 16 2019 4:26 utc | 181

The people there may not have been treated too well….
@Cyril 170
An understatement. Quite apart from continued executions of Shia clergy, they have yet to forget the 1979 El Qatif uprising, which was put down with great severity, unreported except by the now defunct “Now” magazine.

Posted by: necromancer | Sep 16 2019 4:48 utc | 182

In the NY Times item republished in my local rag today, the authors insert the Pompeo quote blaming Iran and “no evidence the attacks came from Yemen.” Then in the very next paragraph, they contradict Pompeo: “It was the single most audacious attack on Saudi Arabia the Houthis have claimed…” [My Emphasis] Yes, I was quite surprised and actually pleased, a very rare happening given the leading role the Times has in the Outlaw US Empire’s BigLie Media.
I’ve been expecting just this sort of attack since it became clear the Houthis were capable of mass producing the utilized drones. Those drones are very similar to the type used by the Turkish-backed terrorists in Idlib that send them against Russia’s airbase and are shot down at a 100% rate by the Pantsir–RT awhile ago did a documentary program about its capabilities and supplied their own tiny quadracopter drone, which is one of the smallest and hardest to see on radar, and the Pantsir took it out with one shot from its cannon! NATO has absolutely nothing comparable.
I must agree with Grieved above about the Houthi continuing to do as much damage to the Saudis as possible. I expect them to hit those same targets several more times and soon before they get air defenses. As for rebel Saudis allying with Houthis, it’s possible the ultimate aim is to regime change Saudi and change the name of the region from Saudi Arabia to something else. How much effort will the Outlaw US Empire put into defending the Sauds from an internal revolt done in concert to a Houthi invasion from the South IMO is the big question.
Talk about the Arc of Resistance unending the chessboard, the chairs, and the table! Imagine a world minus the Sauds and their ultra extreme Islam with Shia in control of Mecca and Medina, all sealed with a collective security pact for the Persian Gulf!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2019 5:34 utc | 183

@james 116
You are correct in pointing out the obvius hypocrizy of pat lang’s SST. He was ex DIA and as we all know intelligence never retired. combined with exceptionalism mentality of pat lang it is a potent mix , especially with all those ex intel people posting articles on SST and spreading nonsense.
Watch B posting sense on SST and got labelled as american hater , while other poster like Fred constantly attack critical posters and be allowed to do that by lang.
SST maybe good read to know which narrative peddled by lang , as he is full bore anti china and hardly a peed on the criminality of US attempted coup in venezuela.

Posted by: milomilo | Sep 16 2019 6:19 utc | 184

b: The Saudis need to move fast to end the war [or] we can expect further escalations and more attacks like the ones earlier today
from ArabNews, Sep 16:
The KSA General Entertainment Authority has announced a season of record-breaking events for the upcoming 89th Saudi National Day celebrations Sept. 21-23. “Fireworks will light up Jeddah over Al-Hamra Corniche accompanied by sound and light effects and laser shows . .fireworks celebrations will continue for several days where more than 700,000 shots will be fired at an altitude of up to 300 meters, accompanied by music”” . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 16 2019 15:10 utc | 185

Go here for details of the Saudi crackdown on the minority Shia in Eastern Province, called the Qatif Conflict. . .”Since Al-Hasa and Qatif were conquered and annexed into the Emirate of Riyadh in 1913 by Ibn Saud, Shiites in the region had experienced state oppression. . . .”

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 16 2019 15:14 utc | 186

@Sunny Runny Burger #157
As far as I understand it, the satellites have to zoom in, in order to detect low signature launches. SLBM qualify as low sig while ICBM don’t.
So again, detection would require tasking of long term satellite resources – it is not clear what % of the globe can be covered even by the US’ resources.
Point being, it seems highly unlikely the US or any other major nation would focus its missile launch detection systems on Saudi desert.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 16 2019 16:04 utc | 187

@vk #158
You assert that China is ok with the petrodollar system; I am far less clear.
Among other reasons: China’s reserves of USD dropped $1 trillion from 2014 to 2017 ($4 trillion to $3 trillion).
The ongoing trade war plus China’s economy slowing also makes it unclear that ongoing petrodollar standards will be tolerable due to ongoing trade surpluses with the US. At $50/barrel, China must come up with $146B annually to pay for oil due to Petrodollar.

Posted by: c1ue | Sep 16 2019 16:08 utc | 188

@James @116; @milimilo @ 184:
Pat Lang has his uses, but he has his ideological blinders. To be fair to the man, it probably is hard admitting that he served not just a system that threw out a few evil people from time to time, but an evil system.

Posted by: Sid Finster | Sep 16 2019 17:53 utc | 189

Here is Smith’s take:
http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-black-swan-is-drone.html
What if Ansarullah were contracted to do a strike on Al Tanf?

Posted by: brian_k | Sep 16 2019 18:46 utc | 190

I’m glad I found this web site, I couldn’t find any knowledge on this matter prior to.Also operate a site and if you are ever interested in doing some visitor writing for me if possible feel free to let me know, i am always look for people to check out my web site.

Posted by: vex 4 | Sep 17 2019 5:01 utc | 191

There are lots of options. It pays to remember that C-Prince MbS has also been conductng something of a regime change within KSA, so there are lots of possible players besides Iran and Yemen. Wahabi/Sunni and local Shiites may be in the game. Lots of potential players on the field.
“Drones” are the “in” thing, but for all the safety, refineries and transport facilities are designed to burn. Most storage tanks, at least in the US, are within containment structures/berms The attitude is not “if” but “when”.
Thus, huge fires are an expected annoyance. If there is significant system damage, it suggests “bad actors” who knew what they were doing and targeted critical elements of the facility. A simple RPG warhead, perhaps “hand-delivered”, could make a real mess at a pump or valve array. THAT would take some time to repair/replace.
Human drones, i. e. suicide bombers, have been all too common in the Islamic world. Anyone can play that game. There is no need to invoke super sophisticated technology, except for a cover story, when banging a commonly available munition on a piece of critical equipment will do just as well. “Allah ak-BOOM”.
And, really, Muslims don’t play well with others, even other Muslims. “Takfir!”

Posted by: Mike-SMO | Sep 18 2019 3:51 utc | 192

Mike @ 192
“And, really, Muslims don’t play well with others, even other Muslims. “Takfir!”
Unlike Christians Eh!

Posted by: arby | Sep 19 2019 22:21 utc | 193