Violent Protests In Hong Kong Reach Their Last Stage
The riots in Hong Kong are about to end.
The protests, as originally started in June, were against a law that would have allowed criminal extraditions to Taiwan, Macao and mainland China. The law was retracted and the large protests have since died down. What is left are a few thousand students who, as advertised in a New York Times op-ed, intentionally seek to provoke the police with "marginal violence":
Such actions are a way to make noise and gain attention. And if they prompt the police to respond with unnecessary force, as happened on June 12, then the public will feel disapproval and disgust for the authorities. The protesters should thoughtfully escalate nonviolence, maybe even resort to mild force, to push the government to the edge. That was the goal of many people who surrounded and barricaded police headquarters for hours on June 21.
The protesters now use the same violent methods that were used in the Maidan protests in the Ukraine. The U.S. seems to hope that China will intervene and create a second Tianamen scene. That U.S. color revolution attempt failed but was an excellent instrument to demonize China. A repeat in Hong Kong would allow the U.S. to declare a "clash of civilization" and increase 'western' hostility against China. But while China is prepared to intervene it is unlikely to do the U.S. that favor. Its government expressed confidence that the local authorities will be able to handle the issue.
There are rumors that some Hong Kong oligarchs were originally behind the protests to prevent their extradition for shady deals they made in China. There may be some truth to that. China's president Xi Jingpin is waging a fierce campaign against corruption and Hong Kong is a target rich environment for fighting that crime.
The former British colony is ruled by a handful of oligarchs who have monopolies in the housing, electricity, trade and transport markets:
The book to read is Land and the Ruling Class in Hong Kong (2010) by Alice Poon, which explains how the lack of competition law created outrageous wealth for the tycoons. It’s a complex subject but the key point is that in Hong Kong all land is leasehold and ultimately owned by the government, which uses it as a means of raising revenue. This goes back to the days of empire when British policy required colonies to be self-funding. The system kept taxes down and attracted business – but one side-effect was that it gave the government an interest in rationing land to keep it expensive. That didn’t matter much when the local economy comprised a few traders but, in the modern technological world of 2012, it puts the government at odds with every person and business wanting affordable space. Indeed, it induces the government to distort and damage the economy, and indeed society.This system paved the way for a handful of Hong Kong families to become unimaginably wealthy by getting their hands on cheap land back in the days before the city started to boom.
Rents and apartment prices in Hong Kong are high. People from the mainland who buy up apartments with probably illegally gained money only increase the scarcity. This is one reason why the Cantonese speaking Hong Kong protesters spray slurs against the Mandarin speaking people from the mainland. The people in Hong Kong also grieve over their declining importance. Hong Kong lost its once important economical position. In 1993 Hong Kong's share of China's GDP was 27%. It is now less than a tenths of that and the city is now more or less irrelevant to mainland China.
Democracy in Hong Kong is restricted to further the interests of the oligarchs:
In the 70-seat legislature, only half of the members are directly elected. The other half are selected by special interest groups—such as the financial and real estate professions—meaning that the body tends to be controlled by a mostly pro-Beijing business elite rather than by voters. The city’s Beijing-backed leader, Chief Executive Carrie Lam, likewise lacks a popular mandate.
The current protests are surely not an incentive to remove those restrictions or to invest in Hong Kong. They are counter productive.
While the protests against the extradition bill may have been backed by some tycoons, it is obvious that there is also a large U.S. government influence behind them. It is the U.S., not some oligarchs, which is behind the current rioting phase.
In 1992 Congress adopted the United States–Hong Kong Policy Act which mandates U.S. government 'pro-democracy' policies in Hong Kong. Some Senators and lobbyists now push for a Support Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act which would intensify the interference. Before the June protests started Secretary of State (and former CIA head) Mike Pompeo met with the Hong Kong 'pro-democracy' leader Martin Lee and later with 'pro-democracy' media tycoon Jimmy Lai. The National Endowment for Democracy finances several of the groups behind the protests.
Such interference is against Hong Kong's Basic Law:
The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.
Despite that law the U.S. National Endowment of Democracy spends millions on organizations in Hong Kong:
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The political officer of the U.S. consulate in Hong Kong, the largest in the world, meets with notorious rabble-rousers like Yoshua Wong.
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That some protesters sing the U.S. national anthem and wave U.S. flags (vid) or fire U.S. made grenade launchers (vid) will not motivate patriotic locals to join them. The protesters also fly Pepe the frog flags and use that rightwing fringe symbol on their pamphlets and flyers. It rather fits that Hillary Clinton and Dominic Raab support them.
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To use the British colonial flag to call for Chinese 'colonists' to leave requires some brain twisting.
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The rioters equipment comes from "strangers" who create depots of gas masks, helmets, laser pointers etc, that trusted demonstrators then distribute to their fellows. Mysteriously hundreds of subway tickets appear which are handed out for free to the junior university students who, during their current holidays, make up the mass of the violent black block that attacks the police.
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The rightwing Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions has long been financed by U.S. regime change organizations. That it represents the airport workers may be the reason why the protests recently escalated there. The last three days protesters blocked the Hong Kong airport and violently hindered people from departing on their booked flights.
Travelers who spoke Mandarin were attacked. The scene became extremely ugly when a journalist from the Chinese Global Times was beaten until he fainted. Protesters claimed that he was with the police and hindered paramedics from reaching and caring for the man. Only when police intervened were the first-aiders able to remove the unconscious person. One of the rioters who beat the man had a U.S. flag in his hand (vid). When the stretcher was rolled out of the airport another protester with a U.S. flag on a pole ran after it and beat the patient (vid).
James Griffith, a CNN International producer, was on the scene.
𝕛𝕒𝕞𝕖𝕤 𝕘𝕣𝕚𝕗𝕗𝕚𝕥𝕙𝕤 @jgriffiths - 14:24 UTC · Aug 13, 2019Ugly confrontation between a huge crowd of protesters and a man they believe is an undercover cop has been ongoing for over an hour now. Have zip tied the man’s hands and fighting over whether to move him. He’s collapsed twice.
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Its all so ugly and angry and nihilistic. Asked kids who said he was faking what if he wasn’t, they said who cares. Asked what if he dies, who cares. Asked them what they think will happen if he is a cop and he dies, “so they shutdown HK? Good! We are ready for it, we want it.”
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This was a movement famous for clearing thousands of people out of the way on the streets to let an ambulance through, now blocking a stretcher while a handful of more reasonable people in tears try to reason with them.
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Most surreal moments have been people (seeing press vest) come up to “explain” to me things they’re clearly getting from Telegram, claiming without evidence the guy is 100% a cop because someone Googled him, or that he had weapons (different guy) or that he was faking fainting.
Read Griffiths whole thread here. There are also plenty of videos from the scene that document the ghastly behavior.
Later Griffiths further explained:
𝕛𝕒𝕞𝕖𝕤 𝕘𝕣𝕚𝕗𝕗𝕚𝕥𝕙𝕤 @jgriffiths - 5:44 UTC · Aug 14, 2019(1) man found with numchuk like weapon, released after brief confrontation and showing ID.
(2) man accused of being undercover cop, beaten and restrained with zip ties. Paramedic reached him to give him oxygen and aid after he passed out. evacuated to ambulance after 4-5 hours.
(3) man later confirmed to be Global Times reporter. Briefly restrained and then released after first aiders intervened.
Another 'western' journalist expressed a rather wretched understanding of freedom of the press:
Melissa Chan @melissakchan - 20:40 UTC · Aug 13, 2019What has happened with the man detained and physically abused by some protesters at the Hong Kong airport is appalling and must stop now. But he works for The Global Times, a propaganda arm of the Chinese state, and he is not a journalist and should not be called that.
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Melissa Chan worked for Al Jazeerah, the propaganda arm of the emir of Qatar. She now works for DW, the propaganda arm of the German government. By her own criterion she is neither a journalist nor should she be called one.
The airport now received a court order that allows it to restrict further protests.
The police still holds back as much as it can. In most other countries this scene, in which a beaten policeman briefly pulls his gun, would have ended deadly.
Last month the government in Hong Kong brought a former top officer out of retirement to handle the protests. There have since been some changes in police tactics. Where previously protestors got away with building barricades and throwing stones they now get arrested and end up in jail. Undercover policemen snatched some riot leaders off the streets.
Local people increasingly turn against the rioters. Those who depend on tourism have good reason to call for a crack down on them. The violent behavior of the protesters gives the police more public leeway for harsh responses. There are many additional methods that can be used. The police refrained so far from encircling and mass arresting rioters, a tactic that is used in many other countries. Its water cannon vehicles were shown off but not put into action. The police has not yet cracked down on the communication with "strangers" even though it is likely to listen to some of it. This end phase will soon come.
There is also an automatic end date for the riots. On September 2 the new semester begins and the students will turn back to studies. The rioters will lose their critical mass. The whole issue will end up as another failure without the U.S. achieving any of its aims.
Mainland Chinese who view the chaos in Hong Kong in all its glory will now reject any talk of 'pro-democracy'.
Meanwhile China intensifies its belt and road initiative and Trump loses his trade war:
Responding to pressure from businesses and growing fears that a trade war is threatening the U.S. economy, the Trump administration is delaying most of the import taxes it planned to impose on Chinese goods and is dropping others altogether.The administration says it still plans to proceed with 10% tariffs on about $300 billion in Chinese imports [...]
But under pressure from retailers and other businesses, President Donald Trump’s trade office said it would delay until Dec. 15 the tariffs on nearly 60% of the imports that had been set to absorb the new taxes starting Sept. 1. Among the products that will benefit from the 3½-month reprieve are such popular consumer goods as cellphones, laptops, video game consoles, some toys, computer monitors, shoes and clothing.
The administration is also removing other items from the tariff list entirely, based on what it called “health, safety, national security and other factors.”
Russia's agriculture thrives on sales to China while U.S. farmers lose market share. The anti-Chinese part of Trump's MAGA has yet to achieve any success.
Posted by b on August 14, 2019 at 15:14 UTC | Permalink
« previous page | next page »O @101
I know what you are.
You know what you are.
There is no argument here.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 15 2019 0:26 utc | 102
There is cone of silence around NGOs - NED (National Endowment for Democracy) in particular. There is a correlation between them and color revolutions.
I lived in S. E. Asia for 3 years a very long time ago. The Clash of Civilizations is real. Thais and Vietnamese are old Chinese tribes that moved south pushing out Cambodians and Malays. Burmese are forcing Muslim Rohingya into Bangladesh. Cantonese must be taught to speak Mandarin as a second language just like English is taught in Hong Kong or Singapore. Beijing wants its subjects to think they are Chinese just like Washington DC wants to it citizens to think they are Americans. However, predatory capitalism is stealing wealth from workers and wasting the environment to make the rich richer. This stress is forcing people to revert back to their tribal identities to survive.
Government was been superseded by corporate trade pacts in the West until Donald Trump started to try to wrestle some control back in order to make money for friends and family. NED is a private/public partnership that is a money making scheme for its donors. The greater the chaos the better for disruptive capitalists to steal resources and receive protection money.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Aug 15 2019 0:28 utc | 103
ziogolem @98--
Yes, agreed! I showed where China announced what it saw as an opportunity @29 to strengthen itself so that it can be prepared for what it sees as a "long lasting competition."
cindy6 @100--
Thanks for your input! The Outlaw US Empire is extremely weak when compared to China and has little to stand on aside from its mythos which is vacuous in reality--Arrogance is no match for wisdom. As I see it, that wisdom aims to establish a resiliency capable of seeing its people through a paradigm transition along with its strategic partners. Meanwhile, the last remaining Empire throws fits and tantrums while doing nothing to properly prepare for the future. Those fits and tantrums we see are also played out here to no avail.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 0:38 utc | 104
The post by cindy6 @100 syncs up with the attitudes I detected when I was last in HK. The adults all want ponies too (doesn't everyone?), but they are more concerned about things like better affordable housing, and it isn't the mainland that is standing in the way of them getting things like that... and they know it.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 15 2019 0:41 utc | 105
ziogolem @106--
And what of the concept of guanxi? Those I know who experienced living in China said it was very important to get a grasp on that powerful cultural aspect. My experience is that of a form of self-deprecation publicly masking biases, while hiding true feelings until a certain stage in relationship is attained.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 1:13 utc | 106
@ Posted by: O | Aug 14 2019 23:36 utc | 92
You're talking here like you were an omniscient narrator of History, and you forget the most important thing of all: where are your sources? Do you have one within the CCP? How do you know what Xi is thinking? So far, I've seen none convincing argument for your hypothesis.
@ Posted by: O | Aug 14 2019 22:55 utc | 86
So, let me see: you have one opinion piece by an Anglo-Saxon writer and one account that doesn't report a strike, but an isolated event on a saturday night. How is that a good counter-argument?
Just because it has a link to a newspaper's website doesn't make it evidence.
Every color revolution has a real domestic contradiction as a spark -- the difference is the agenda: a color revolution always proposes the instalation of a Western-style liberal democracy as a unique solution in every case, be it Georgia or Hong Kong. Obviously, liberal democracy is not a solution to anything, but on the contrary, is the root of many problems (see Russia's shock therapy in the 1990s).
thanks B for this post exposing the true nature of US/UK instigated and supplied HK protest that increasingly violent to prod harsh response by Hk police.
That the few first comments came from obvious trolls indicate you hit the nerve and the PTB send their internet trolls to MoA as oft happened in the past. One funny thing i observed , the quality of trolling become so obvious compared to the regulars here , their trolling post become instant laughing stock. I would caution other regulars to stop replying tot the trolls and let them hijack the comment thread. ignore them and stop repeatedl responding to these paid astroturfers , unless you also a troll playing tag team with them (common good cop bad cop strategy) , this means you Sasha, just rebut once and ignore the troll.
Posted by: milomilo | Aug 15 2019 1:34 utc | 108
I initially thought the protests were really about the failings/shortcomings of HK society (which I think everyone agrees exist), then I changed by mind to the view written by b and many others here (ie.: first and foremost a lot of US interference and maybe others too), particularly as the protesters became increasingly violent (or I became increasingly aware of their violence) and when I saw that they sprayed slogans about revolution and independence.
HK is not as tiny as Macau but it's still very small and far smaller than for example Taiwan. China dwarfs Taiwan. Taiwan is the closest "country"/"rebel region" to HK after China, something like 4-5 hours away by commercial plane travel. Everything else is much further away; HK only has geographical proximity to China, for the British having access to China through HK was the whole point of being there, an independent HK would be entirely inside China, Chinese territorial waters, and Chinese airspace without any sliver of a chance of UN recognition.
Thus a HK revolution and HK independence is insane rubbish.
Anything new?
Blue (I think it was "blue") wrote a comment some time ago about how perhaps this was merely the US doing all that it still knows how to do (ie.: causing trouble), another similar possibility is that the US is deliberately following a policy of "maximum trouble anywhere" as an open-ended principle without regards to any identified clear benefit or rationale but solely to rock the boat as much as possible in hope of gaining a much better position than it currently has (they're nowhere near "top of the world" or "superpower" or being a "functional nation").
It could be called a "panic policy", or a madman one, or "throwing the world under the bus", a desperate long shot where they try to shake the world as much as possible to see what might fall out of it.
I still don't see any rationality in that (it would be a deliberate absence of such a thing) or any sensible "bigger picture" around it.
Anyway only a potential possibility, I'm not at all convinced. I guess one could see it as the opposite of "playing for time" which is what it looks like Russia and China are doing so there's that, maybe that's some kind of explanation.
It can be harder to try to intrude into someone's OODA loop (Wikipedia it if unfamiliar) if they're acting crazy but that only works to a certain extent because crazies (acting or not) are very good at hurting themselves (it's sort of a requirement), and much more so in general than hurting anyone else.
Meh... it's the Karl Rove thing isn't it? So then it's better to not care why and only be against everything US? If so it's another home goal by the US.
For a break there are several versions of "Front Page" (1990) on YouTube but I only found one with the very good original opening song "Don't Care About 97" (話知你97) by Samuel Hui (was the song removed from later releases?), click my name to go there (part 1 of 7 or so for the full movie by the same account). The captioning of the song in English is likely imprecise etc. but it's all I understand and I always liked it (both the music and the lyrics as I understand them, I like the movie too).
If someone (likely many) do not understand how it is decidedly on topic they should go to it and watch, read, and listen to those first two minutes (and enjoy the movie in all the other parts as well if they feel like it).
I've never been to HK and the HK you see there does not exist (and never did either since it's fiction) but it shows a small part of something undefined "behind" itself (culture? way of being? people?) which I consider lovely and which the "imaginary" or "outside view" of HK had a lot of (and probably still does among normal people there despite the never-ending and increasing importance both given to and demanded by money in HK more than most places).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 15 2019 1:39 utc | 109
Posted by: Jen | Aug 14 2019 23:27 utc | 90
It was much worse when the British were in charge: HK learned financial services corruption from the UK. To find out more, talk to a few British lawyers working in HK at the time: Most of their work was ferrying suitcases of cash to banks on behalf of their foreign clients. Here is more ... https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/1893536/hong-kongs-long-history-money-laundering. Given that China does not have a judicial system that is independent of the party, the judiciary is corrupt and Xi’s supposed anti corruption project is just a fig leaf over an authoritarian regime that rules by absolute power, not by consent: I will believe his campaign - so easily swallowed in the west - when we see a reduction in corruption rather than just a purge of Xi’s enemies.
Posted by: aspnaz | Aug 15 2019 1:40 utc | 110
Posted by: vk | Aug 15 2019 1:24 utc | 108
You are just grasping at straws now trying to prove your baseless assertions because you have this simplistic framing of the events in Hong Kong that B fed you.
Posted by: O | Aug 15 2019 1:51 utc | 111
History has a sense of humour-what else could have come up with the simultaneous spectacles of, on the one hand. Julian Assange, in High Security prison in London, heavily drugged and in dangerously bad health facing extradition to the United States, to face charges of having exposed war crimes and systematic deception of the sovereign people.
While on the other hand, a lame and shortlived attempt to introduce legal extradition procedures for criminal charges into Hong Kong, gives rise to waves of protest, organised and financed by the very state authorities, in the US and the UK (and doubtless Canada too, which is holding a Huawei Executive to be extradited to the US to face 'charges' of having done business in Iran) responsible for what is being done to Assange.
In Hong Kong it is held, by the western intelligentsia, well larded by anti-Chinese racists of every kind(see above), to be offensive to all ideas of freedom and liberty to prevent rioters from beating up whoever they fancy and vandalising public places.
While in London merely to publish official reports of helicopters machine gunning journalists and local families, is held by those same intellectuals-freedom lovers to a woman- to be worthy of life imprisonment in solitary confinement.
The government of China is the greatest obstacle to global hegemony that the maritime empire has faced in almost six hundred years of expansion.
To subvert China every effort is being made, by intelligence services and the propaganda mills, sometimes referred to, humorously no doubt, as News Media, to drive China in upon herself. We have seen successive attempts to foment guerrilla wars in Tibet and Sinkiang by inserting well armed and trained terrorist cadres into the country. We have even seen attempts to introduce animal and plant diseases to induce famines and hobble economic growth. All of which the Empire has previously done in the Soviet Union.
And we have seen Tianamen Square and now we see Hong Kong.
The aim is to panic the Chinese state into taking measures that can be described as heavy handed and used to convince the Empire's semi- comatose intellectual bourgeoisie that supporting imperial foreign policy is liberal and progressive-a credit that makes up a little for treating the poor and exploited at home, like the colonials that they always have been.
(Professor Watson doesn't give a shit about the cuts that are turning the NHS into a killing machine and driving quadraplegics, ordered to look for work, to kill themselves. And he is positively reassured by the idea that his students are forced to pay tens of thousands annually to listen as he rehashes old and idiotic text books. But he cares mightily-passionately in fact-over the lack of democracy in Hong Kong.)
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2019 1:55 utc | 112
Given that China does not have a judicial system that is independent of the party, the judiciary is corrupt and Xi’s supposed anti corruption project is just a fig leaf over an authoritarian regime that rules by absolute power, not by consent: I will believe his campaign - so easily swallowed in the west - when we see a reduction in corruption rather than just a purge of Xi’s enemies.
Posted by: aspnaz | Aug 15 2019 1:40 utc | 110
As I said earlier some egomaniac makes himself president for life is not about the 'fair and honest life'. But the echo chamber enforcers on this site want to believe in their simple 'US empire bad, Russia and China empires are good 'narrative. What I notice is that the echo chamber enforcers are nothing more than statist authoritarians with childlike worldviews.
Posted by: O | Aug 15 2019 1:59 utc | 113
karlof1 @107
"guanxi" is not something I have had any exposure to, but an excellent example of differing cultural mores.
What looks to be the equivalent of "honour" in chinese could be construed as "corruption" in the west.
I believe there are equivalents to guanxi in other cultures, eg middle east.
Posted by: ziogolem | Aug 15 2019 2:15 utc | 114
Darkthirty@67
You appear to be as dumb as my younger sister.
First the US Empire requires the common citizens to pay taxes or go to jail. The only option is not to give to charities in hopes that enough cumulative pain will lead to a true progressive revolution can roll back the US tyranny. I am not holding my breath.
Second, The US Empire forced many young men into involuntary servitude to kill take part in the killing of millions people to control their resources. I was one of those Oregonians forced into this service, but had the common sense to be inducted as a conscientious objector medic (IA-O) during the Vietnam War at a stateside MASH unit. The President of my Ashland HS class, Valedictorian and captain of the basketball team chose of oppose induction and was sent to prison - coming out a broken man.
Third, In case you have been asleep for the last 70 or more years most of the freedoms under the Constitution and Bill of Rights have been removed.
Fourth, I was born in the Kingdom of Hawaii which as you know was conquered by the US Navy and the US Oligarch class that rule America and illegally made it a state.
Wrap yourself in a flag, next to your favorite six-pack of cheap beer and go back to your war porn world...
Posted by: Krollchem | Aug 15 2019 2:54 utc | 115
O @113:
echo chamber enforcers on this site want to believe in their simple 'US empire bad, Russia and China empires are good 'narrative.
You're exaggerating. There are many here that just believe that a multi-lateral world order would be better for humanity than the NWO absolute global power monopoly that Western elites dream of. In the view of many, Western elites haven't demonstrated that they're worthy of holding such awesome power.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 15 2019 2:55 utc | 116
jr - i think that is the difference between a mature, responsible outlook, and a childish one cultivated by the western msm... the kiddies go with the childish, or simplistic black and white type responses..
Posted by: james | Aug 15 2019 3:18 utc | 117
"But the obvious question here is why. Why on earth would these crony capitalists be funding their erstwhile supposed nominal arch nemesis rival enemies, their sworn enemies, the Socialists? These are directly contradictory ideologies and viewpoints and economic systems. Why on earth would the capitalists be supporting the Socialists in various countries?"
But the obvious questin here is why would the Hoover Institute, of Stanford University, put up a Sutton to research these topics and publish them. Stanford Research Institute, Hoover Institute, Silicon Valley arm of Military-Intelligence Industry.
When IMF is gone the Common Wealth will remain. Alternatively, remember when the American Empire was called Pax Americana?
(AI assisted Corporate Robotic Public Servants will likely do an excellent impersonation of Hun Mandarin enforces so don't worry your little head about "Class of Civilizations".)
Posted by: Realist | Aug 15 2019 3:34 utc | 118
O @ 92:
My comment @ 90 was not about Xi Jinping's actions at all, I was quoting a passage from Bernhard's article if you were able (which some MoA barflies doubt) to read both his post and my comment carefully.
Posted by: Jen | Aug 15 2019 4:06 utc | 119
all anyone really has to do is compare the corporate mainstream media perspectives and reporting of the Hong Kong protests with those of the Occupy Wall Street (2011), or the Standing Rock native american water-rights protests (2016-2017).
The rich and the powerful in america always downgrade (or simply ignore) any significant protests within the US which threaten oligarchic business or financial interests that run the country, but in turn glorify so called 'pro-democracy' movements in nations which are official enemies of the US imperial Empire
Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 15 2019 4:25 utc | 120
cindy6 @100, bevin @112:
Bravo! Both well said.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 15 2019 5:44 utc | 122
By the way, the Extradition Law proposal that started this was because a HK guys was caught and charged for using a dead woman's (his girl friend) credit card in HK. He admitted to killing the woman in Taiwan when they vacationed there together. The HK judge who sentence the guilty guy said she couldn't impose anything harsher than 18 months for mail fraud, because the murder was not done in HK, and HK/Taiwan has no extradition agreement due to HK's opposition parties not wanting want any such agreement with China, and by law Taiwan is part of China.
The guilty guy is going to be set free in 5 months. The HK Chief Executive thus tried to introduce the law revision for the Legislative Council to enact. Then BOOM, all this shenanigan blew up! Prior to the Chief Executive submitting the revision to Legislative Council, Taiwan demanded HK government to hand over the guilty. Then, when protestors hit the street, Taiwan government saw that it was anti-China and therefore started instead to provide funding, equipment, and advices to escalate the protest into the present terrorist riot. My oh my, what has this world come to???
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Aug 15 2019 6:02 utc | 123
60#Sasha,
Well,refusing to dock to an american war ship is very meaningful.The next step should be the encircing of USA and UK embassies,or consulates,controlling all coming and going.That would be a major news item,and MSM will be obliged to some explanation.In that way the chinese government can calm things down until the new university year that allegedly starts 2 september.
Posted by: willie | Aug 15 2019 8:38 utc | 124
WOW it has been getting hot in the bar lately. The interpersonal yelling is drowning out my favourite folk band paying Dylans Times are a'changing
I reckon China has played its hand well against constant and now extreme meddling by the loony west.
Thank you so much all those that remained calm and chatted with each over over a cool cider while the trolls smashed the furniture and the band played on :)
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 15 2019 8:46 utc | 125
@Posted by: milomilo | Aug 15 2019 1:34 utc | 111
I do not overpassed the ammount of responses by even populars here, like karloff1 or William Gruff, why you point me as a troll?
For what I recalled ( from the ammount of comments I dd yesterday ) I limited myself to one response to each, one or two of these US Gov/USAF operatives, and did that to take the opportunity, never an excess, of pointing out the reality about both the US and China.
That you try to label me a troll now or insinuate being coordinated with such stooges, when I have proved here my socialist stance with the people, tells me that, perhaps, it is you who are bothered by what I said in my responses to the US operatives and who really or are coordinated with them or are a operative/troll yourself.
Look, I am not here 24/7 like many others, at least can not comment so much, I have a job to attend, and a home, you see, but try to read everything I am interested on here whenever I can, and must say that do not see you contributing so much. In my scarce free time available I try to work hard looking for material with which to fight the US/UK current bullying of the rest of the world, sometimes even sacrifying part of my sleep time when development of events so require. I have done so since the previous years of the Syrian invasion by US takfiri proxy army, at that time, starting at national MSM comments section where my comments provoked floods of doctored photos of Syria which ruined the whole section. Do you think that was because my comments were harmless fro them?
You try to do the same, take at least as much effort as I do, and, finally, if you can, leave me alone.
No lying USAF operative or Trump supporter will go without response from my part, as soon as I have the time and the mood and B allows me to do it.
P.S: BTW, going wildly especulative as you did with me, "Milo" was not that agent provocateur of the Pepe Frog troupe? It´s ages I do not hear about him... it seems that his incipient new job as speecher to spread hatred around the world got prematurely truncated, banned in Europe... and beyond....may be a new, more humble job here?
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 9:43 utc | 126
@Posted by: milomilo | Aug 15 2019 1:34 utc | 111
BTW, Yianopoulos, that most of the thread since i went to bed yesterday is of responses ot this other troll, "O", to whom everybody is reponding, why do you not call the attention of all those answering him? Notice that I do not answer thsi troll not even once....
I am now sure it were what I said in my responses what bothered you...Go tint your hair in a new color! Moron!
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 9:49 utc | 127
There are a number of comments here about Hong Kong having been part of the British Empire, but that is not the case. Certainly it is a well hidden and little understood difference, but Hong Kong was in fact a 'Crown Colony', and the Crown Empire and the British Empire were actually separate entities, legalistically speaking. Also, the ‘Crown’ is not what one would naturally assume, i.e. the monarch, but is instead the Corporation of the City of London, or more specifically the thirteen man (naturally) ruling council of that corporation. The British state was used to enforce ‘Crown’ rule, effectively as a proxy force, but the ownership of the lease was held by the corporate entity that sits statelessly in the square mile of London’s financial district.
Posted by: Ross | Aug 15 2019 9:54 utc | 128
@zioglem 108 & karlof1
I was in China in 1987 when entrepreneurship was just starting up. One resourceful chap had some t-shirts printed with ‘guanxi’ in big characters on the front. As trying to discover the nature of the Chinese sense of humour was one of my aims on the trip this was a good purchase. It made its debut one sunny summer Sunday at the Summer Palace in Beijing, which was thronging with local tourists. I carefully observed people as they approached me, and almost without fail the response ranged from quiet smile to uproarious laughter. About half-a-dozen people stopped and asked to take my photo so amused were they by this, what I presume, was seen as a very humorous act of self-deprecation. It was tremendous fun, and it seemed everyone got the joke. Anyway, I could tick the sense-of-humour box on my list of things to find out about China!
Posted by: Ross | Aug 15 2019 10:14 utc | 129
To those who suggest or doubt that French Gilets Jaunes protests are on the same level of empire produced color revolutions,I like to say that this is not true.Yellow Vests started as a grass roots spontaneous peaceful movement.Quickly the french government sent in its blackblocks(whom I suspect to be in relation with stay behind Gladio operations) to deligitimize the movement.Many videos show heavily covered and armed "protestors"stepping out of police vans,e.g.This was already a routine law enforcement behaviour,that occurred under Sarkozy's regime.
1968 ,now that was a real colour revolution,to oust De Gaulle,who proposed a middle way between USA and USSR powerplay.He was extremely popular in third world countries for that,acclaimed by millions on visiting Mexico,Argentina,and other conference-of- Bandung-trying-to-be-independent countries.
(Already in war time,OSS agent and later founder of European Union Jean Monnet wrote to his masters that De Gaulle should be taken out for being an obstacle to american domination of the european continent.)
Posted by: willie | Aug 15 2019 10:21 utc | 130
This state violence of the French Interior Ministry was the reason for the movement to diminish in number,notwithstanding the 60-70% of public opinion still supporting them.There wer a lot of seniors,middle aged women,families who initially brought their kids at the beginning.Well,by end of december they didn't dare to show up anymore.
Posted by: willie | Aug 15 2019 10:25 utc | 131
sasha #129 & 130 ++
I do appreciate your posts and your incisive mind. This is a most refreshing site and thank you b for tolerating us barflies and tossing red meat to keep up the dialogue.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 15 2019 10:58 utc | 132
关系 guānxì : relationship(s):
相互 合作 并 相互 支持的 关系 网络。
Xiānghù hézuò bìng xiānghù zhīchíde guānxì wǎngluò.
A network of relationships that work together and support each other.
相互 mutual
合作 cooperation
并 and
相互 mutual
支持的 supported
关系 relationship(s)
网络。network(s).
Posted by: RayBerAu | Aug 15 2019 11:12 utc | 133
@ Posted by: aspnaz | Aug 15 2019 1:40 utc | 113
Your analysis about the Chinese system is purely ideological. On the same basis, I could condemn the Western system too (which is a kabuki system, governed from behind the curtains by a capitalist oligarchy who preselects all the candidates which the "people" can choose). And you forget that, in the Western system, the judiciary is not democratically elected and is for life (the judges stay judges until they either retire, renounce or die).
You may find the Chinese system repulsive -- but, even abstracting all the lies you talk about it (that Xi is "president for life" - the office of president doesn't even exist in China), you can't argue with the results.
--//--
@ Posted by: O | Aug 15 2019 1:51 utc | 114
Now you're just looking yourself at the mirror. With this ad hominem attack, I'll consider, for all practical purposes (since we can't discuss here forever), that I won this debate.
--//--
@ Posted by: willie | Aug 15 2019 10:21 utc | 133
Yes, I agree with you: the Gillet Jaunes are a completely different case from HK. The first are a legitimate protest, without foreign interference: they have a clear cut, concrete set of reivindications. HK protesters are American puppets who only seek to create a liberal beachhead in China and, ultimately, destroy socialism in the world.
aspnaz @ 96 says:
In case you are wondering, almost all my colleagues are mainlanders or Indians, the mainlanders around me are happy to fart loudly all day in the office, eating with the same sounds as a pig trough: and these are the elite who moved into banking
...
so you're a banker, albeit one with proper manners, alas…
i lived in HK for almost four years, back in the 70s, in my roaring twenties, and remember well the resounding slurping of piping hot tea (with the air crucial to avoid searing one's palate)...with my morning dumplings, or, you know, to wash down those braised chicken feet, which also seem to require a certain amount of audible gnawing. fugetabout chasing the dragon with the stevedors down by the wharves…
the last six months i was homeless, but for a buddy, a driver, who gave me use of his loft, over his pigsty, out in Stanley village, a shanty town really…which i suppose is gone today.
no, i talked, played cards, ate, smoked, laughed, and slept with those folks for three and a half years and i gotta say...i ain't got no quarrel with them Chinamen...or women!
Posted by: john | Aug 15 2019 11:41 utc | 135
@karlof you claim I am ignorant of racism in the United States but I am black and can trace a direct lineage to slaves that have lived in the United States since before it was "The United States". Just because you want to suck off Xi Jing because you reflexively hate the US, go for it, but it isn't for me. That kind of thinking is the same shit most American officials took during the Second World War on the Ostfront. Nevermind millions of Soviets were being exterminated and American officials took glee in it because it was helping with anti-communism. Here you are cheering on the POLICE to crush PROTESTORS. Could you imagine if this was here in America during the anti-war protests? If the National Mall was cleared by riot cops because people were trying to change a system of government that refuses to listen to them? Where would you stand? Probably no where because you're a contrarian with no semblence of any sort of coherent logic outside of "ANYTHING THAT HELPS AMERICA IS BAD THEREFOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN HONG KONG MUST SUBMIT TO A CENTRAL GOVERNMENT IN BEIJING"
Posted by: Empire Watcher | Aug 15 2019 12:02 utc | 136
Empire Watcher, you do realize that your posts are documented right up there on this thread, do you? There is exactly zero value in you denying what you wrote earlier.
Here is your original quote:
“My enslaved and then disenfranchised ancestors helped build railroads, not the Chinese.“
And here is how you incorrectly paraphrased it later on, after you have been called out for this obvious lie:
“no Chinese were involved in the construction of railroads in the South.”
I’m sure even you can spot the difference between these two statements. Anyhow, keep digging that hole of yours, I’ll eject myself from this useless exchange, you are not so super interesting.
Posted by: Protagonist | Aug 15 2019 12:32 utc | 137
Nice little update here:
From Financial Secretary Paul Chan:
If growth does hit 0 to 1 per cent, this will be the worst situation we have faced since 2009
The package is described in the article as:
[...]a basket of extra budget measures to the tune of HK$19.1 billion (US$1.16 billion), spanning reliefs for small businesses to more generous student subsidies and goodies for low-income households.
With this classic Keynesian policy, people here still believe Hong Kong is socialist? A liberal policy to curb a capitalist crisis makes HK socialist? Where are the Beijing masters pulling the strings?
Hong Kong is evidence of the failure of the capitalist system. It has utterly failed.
Beijing should put this old dog out of its misery.
Why China is being taregeted...as I said it yesterday, because it sets a bad example in front of neoliberal policies of tax cuts only for the rich...
Beijing taxpayers save more than 100,000 million yuan by tax reduction in first half
The individual income sector has been the most benefited by the reforms, with a reduction of 54,410 million yuan in taxes during that period, which represents more than half of the total, the source said."In addition, the value-added tax, corporate income tax and social security premiums have also been significantly reduced," said the deputy director of the bureau, Han Jie.
"Tax cuts and fees are an important part of Beijing's active fiscal policy," said the official.
To counteract the downward economic pressure, the Chinese government has implemented large-scale tax exemptions for small and micro businesses, while further reducing the individual income tax.
In the first half of the year, specific tax exemptions have saved the country's small and micro enterprises 116.4 billion yuan.
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:09 utc | 139
What China invests on....
The Chinese city of Shanghai will build a huge bookstore of about 18,000 square meters in one of its cultural centers, local authorities announced.
In recent years, Chinese physical bookstores have become cultural spaces to compete with e-commerce platforms, which are increasingly popular because they offer lower prices.Many local governments have published policies to support physical libraries. For example, Beijing plans to spend 100 million yuan ($ 14.2 million) in 2019 to support such spaces.
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:13 utc | 140
People of China´s spirit....
On why China is targeted, since it sets a bad example...as the Cuban doctors...on harsh contrast with the overvalued US health private system.... Medicare for all...
Nothing stops her! For four decades, Gao Yinshui, 69, has worked as a rural doctor in the village of Lixin, Jiangxi Province, east of #China. Gao moves on foot along mountainous roads to provide care for patients in 9 different villages
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:18 utc | 141
China is not doing bad...
Foreign direct investment in mainland of #China grows 7.3% in January-July
https://twitter.com/XHespanol/status/1161239513148116999
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:24 utc | 142
Why China needs to be targetted this year....
Did you know that #China aims to eradicate the #poverty of your country by 2020? Click here to know the historical achievements in the fight against poverty during the last decades
https://twitter.com/XHespanol/status/1161287092443537408
Includes...
FACTS AND FIGURES: China makes progress in reducing poverty
- In the last 40 years, more than 700 million Chinese have emerged from poverty, which represents more than 70 percent of the reduction in world poverty.- Between 2013 and 2018, China removed 82.39 million rural residents from poverty; that is, an annual average of 13.73 million people, higher than the entire population of Greece.
- At the end of 2018, in the country there were still 16.6 million rural people living below the national poverty line, of which more than half resided in the less developed western regions.
- In 2018, the per capita disposable income of rural inhabitants in the areas affected by poverty reached 10,371 yuan annually (about $ 1,475), twice the level of 2012.
- Driven by continued income growth, rural per capita consumption in poor areas reached 8,956 yuan last year, representing an average annual increase of 11.4 percent.
- China also offered experience and assistance to other countries in their poverty reduction efforts. At the end of October 2015, the country had provided 400,000 million yuan of assistance to 166 countries and international organizations, sent more than 600,000 assistance professionals and provided medical assistance to 69 countries, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:30 utc | 143
@Willie, 133, 134
Thanks for the views about the Gilets Jaunes. I've followed the Saturday marches on social media since Week 3 and had the impression that the Black block stopped participating in the marches once its mission had been accomplished and the Gilets Jaunes had been labelled "casseurs". The original colour revolution against de Gaulle had a successful conclusion when Pompidou was able to privatise the Bank of France in 1973. When the Gilets Jaunes started the march in the financial centre in Paris(week 4/5?), I was interested to note that some of the marchers identified the loss of their national public bank as the beginning of the attack on their standard of living. So, regaining their public banking system and their own publicly issued currency are Gilet Jaunes aims alongside the Citizens' Referendum.
Posted by: cirsium | Aug 15 2019 13:41 utc | 144
@144
China's GDP per capita in healthcare is at a mere 5% of the US, but yet the average life expectancy of a newborn now in China has exceeded the US counterpart. What an embarrassment from the "developed" country...
Posted by: JW | Aug 15 2019 13:46 utc | 145
The Chinese ambassador to the United Kingdom, Liu Xiaoming, is giving a press conference. He said that "if the situation deteriorates further and is uncontrollable for the Hong Kong authorities, the central government will not remain idle."
https://twitter.com/descifraguerra/status/1161951487121133569
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:55 utc | 146
Bolton, in his bluntness, comes to confirm that the turmoil in HK is US made and it is aimed as currency exchange on trade tariffs...
National Security Advisor John Bolton has warned that "If HK is affected by a bad decision in Beijing, there will be significant consequences for China. The atmosphere in Congress is very volatile at the moment and a misstep could lead to an explosion".Donald Trump has offered Xi Jinping to hold a face-to-face meeting to discuss the issue of Hong Kong.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161774305895694336
The same strategy followed with Iran, sanctions to starvation and total blockade of commerce to try to get advantage on deals...The Chinese should react as the Iranians, obviating the offering for face to face meeting and freeze contacts....
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 14:05 utc | 147
Opinion: #HongKong protests: Crossing a line
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1161964502331658240
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 14:33 utc | 148
@ Sasha who wrote
"
The Chinese should react as the Iranians, obviating the offering for face to face meeting and freeze contacts....
"
I agree and thanks for that.
Late empire is attempting to insinuate itself into China's business because it still thinks it should be able to control the global narrative.
Its isolation time, IMO and part of that is telling empire it can't bring its navy into port to project "Metal Coffin Might" anymore.
Thanks also for the foreign direct investment in China figures. Late empire is desperately trying to buy control of the China economy and it is not going to be allowed, which is why we are in WWIII. Global hegemony by private finance is fading and I am pleased because it represents a part of human "nature" that needs to be deprecated.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 15 2019 14:37 utc | 149
For the lovers of budhist stuff here...the mainlander almost martirzed by the terrorists taking over HK the airport, in process of canonization at mainlad China...
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1161936181086449664
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 14:41 utc | 150
"Certainly it is a well hidden and little understood difference, but Hong Kong was in fact a 'Crown Colony', and the Crown Empire and the British Empire were actually separate entities, legalistically speaking. Also, the ‘Crown’ is not what one would naturally assume, i.e. the monarch, but is instead the Corporation of the City of London, or more specifically the thirteen man (naturally) ruling council of that corporation. The British state was used to enforce ‘Crown’ rule, effectively as a proxy force, but the ownership of the lease was held by the corporate entity that sits statelessly in the square mile of London’s financial district."
Ross@131
Ross, where do you get this information from? None of it is true. Crown Colonies were colonies ruled directly by HMG. They still exist. And Hong Kong was one of them.
It is certainly true that the City of London has enormous influence in the UK, just as Wall St does in the USA but there is nothing 'stateless' about the City's ancient corporate status.
It is misleading to suggest that Hong Kong was not an integral part of the Empire, though it is certainly true that its role was that of a commercial centre and it had strong links with the City.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2019 14:43 utc | 151
The US State Department is leveraging prejudice in Hong Kong to power their "regime change" protests there. This is the prejudice against mainlanders that you can see in many posts here in this thread.
This, by the way, was also a key recruiting technique for the CIA death squads in Libya, where the CIA and Clinton's State Department circulated memes suggesting that Gaddafi and the Libyan government were "negro lovers" who biased policy in favor of darker skinned Libyans from the southern portions of the country. Is it any surprise then when these US-backed death squad terrorists gained local power that they promptly genocided unknown numbers of darker skinned Libyans (whole towns and cities dramatically lightened up overnight in average skin tone as soon as the Libyan government was successfully destroyed) and set up slave markets?
But the US "regime change" machinery leverages prejudice not only in Hong Kong and Libya, but in all of its "regime change" operations, from Vietnam to Indonesia to Yugoslavia to Syria to Argentina to the ongoing operation in Venezuela (just compare the average skin tone in the pro-government rallies to that of the pro-empire protests). The empire works hard to magnify perceived differences in order to use those perceived differences to shatter societies.
Try to view the protests clearly and free of spin. The ones in Kiev back in 2013 were against Russians, but not really for anything that any of the protesters could clearly articulate. The protests in Venezuela are against a government dominated by mestizos, but have no clear goals aside from toppling the government. Likewise the Hong Kong protests are against the mainland Chinese population, but have no goal that any of the protesters can clearly state.
Now contrast that with an antiwar protest. The goals are clearly outlined: Stop the killing and get the troops home.
Trying to equate artificial, prejudice-driven "regime change" protests with antiwar protests is an indication of either profound ignorance or profound mendacity. Trying to make that false equivalence while also wearing one's identity politics self-pity like a badge of honor is profound hypocrisy.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 15 2019 14:45 utc | 152
Gruff illuminates the strategy
Stoke hatred to create solidarity.
GW Bush: If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists.
"Terrorists" can not be negotiated with, only hated.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 15 2019 15:13 utc | 153
Pawn movements
Despite to last minute request from US State Dep to seize Iranian oil tanker Grace 1, Gibraltar set it free to sail.
Posted by: arata | Aug 15 2019 15:48 utc | 155
In original post, it’s claimed that Tiananmen Square in 1989 was a US attempt at a “color revolution” in China. The claim is hyperlinked to a website with declassified NSA and US Embassy documents that were published in a book. I don’t see any evidence there that the protests were a US plot to overthrow the Chinese regime. If there is such evidence, I’d be very interested!
Posted by: Hmmm | Aug 15 2019 16:04 utc | 156
Hmmm @159--
Here's b's recap published on the last anniversary.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 16:32 utc | 157
Here's a very fine read on PressTV: Hezbollah chief voices solidarity with Iran’s Zarif over US sanctions.
A quote:
“In that war [of 2006], John Bolton, then the US ambassador to the UN Security Council, told an Arab official: "There is no room for diplomacy, because the war will stop only if Hezbollah is crushed or it surrenders."
“But a few weeks later, Bolton told the same Arab official: "We have to stop the war now."
“The Arab official asked him: Did you crush Hezbollah? He said no. The Arab official asked: Did Hezbollah surrender? He said no. the Arab official said: So why did you stop the war?! Bolton said: Israel would suffer a major disaster if the war continues,” the Hezbollah chief pointed out.
On top of that, the US suffered a severe blow today when they were snubbed, for all the world to see, by Gibraltar.
Nice day.
Posted by: bjd | Aug 15 2019 17:02 utc | 158
A google search on "gene sharp" and "Tiananmen" will reveal that the thinker behind the color revolutions was in Tiananmen shortly before the protests started.
Posted by: lysias | Aug 15 2019 17:15 utc | 159
One fine afternoon during a CIA debriefing, the instructor told the class...
'From now on, dont defend the indefensible, meaning
the USA,, cuz its an exercise in futility, hell, our reputation is too far down the gutter.Instead,
Concentrate on attacking the enemies, China, Russia, etc.
Our media are doing a great job, they have this knack of turning every Chinese policy into a sinister plot to subjugate their people, the one child rule, the censorship, the social credit system,,,..you get the
picture !All you need to do is cut and paste their stories and use it on your debate.
Should be a piece of cake,
The murikkans will swallow any B.S. we feed them,
works like a charm since 1785 !Our opposition is already marginalised, limited to a handful of alt media, kinda like endangered species.
If we can convince them China/Russia isnt worth supporting as well, we'd break up the opposition and have the field all to ourselves.'
Hence we've all these sock puppets coming out of its woodwork whenever there's a piece on China/Russia,
...especially China !
Their themes are invariably one of these ...
*China is just as bad,
*China is much worse,
*Your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend...
blah blah blah..
Some of them here whine that its no fair to call them troll, how about misdirection agents ?
After all, Their job is to deflect the flak away from uncle scam towards China/Russia, thus effectively neutralising the antiwar dissents.
Hmm,
Im not the only one noticing ,
The Rule for Respectable Commentary
https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2014/10/15/john-v-walsh-the-rule-for-respectable-commentary/
Posted by: denk | Aug 15 2019 17:23 utc | 161
New footage exposes the clear intends of assasination of mainland journalist by some US minions in the HK airport...Look at the heavy beating with feet at the kidneys level...this could cause the break down of the organ leading ot the lose of the organ for the rest of life.
This intends of diminshing life quality and expectancy of an innocent citizen who just happened to land in that airport while travelling must be punished as they are, criminal intends of assasination. The authors must be identified and punished.
https://twitter.com/CGTNOfficial/status/1162091591651254273
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 20:20 utc | 162
@Posted by: Sasha | August 15, 2019 at 20:20
Although the whole group is guilty of assasination intend, as they could have provoked the man a heart attack, or by asphixia, or stress out of panic, attention to the guy in white sneakers...the one who hits hardest..and directs his kicks to the back of the waist....
Localize this guy and put him at the judicial authorities of mainland China disposal!
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 20:28 utc | 164
the imperial shills are out in force in this comment thread i 👀,, i guess you wrote about a touchy subject.
the imperial courts and its brownnose gang of shills and traitors do not like the fact that China and Russia have developed when the empire rotted slowly.. I hope Hong Kong government will end these brainwashed self hating loosers. Andrey Martyanov wrote a good comment on the imperial hubris yesterday after bolton managed to say that Russia stole their hypersonic tech from the United snakes of terrorism btw..
Posted by: Per/Norway | Aug 15 2019 23:59 utc | 165
sorry for my bad english,, i meant end the protests by these brainwashed selfhating loosers😣
Posted by: Per/Norway | Aug 16 2019 0:02 utc | 166
Posted by: Empire Watcher | Aug 15 2019 12:02 utc | 139
For some the grass is always greener in Russia and China.
Posted by: aspnaz | Aug 16 2019 0:29 utc | 167
Empire Watcher @139: [posts imperial talking points]
aspnaz @170: "Right on, Bro!"
[aspnaz and Empire Watcher fist bump over the cubicle partition]
[O from 114 peeks over the other cubicle partition] "You guys doing anything after work tonight?"
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 16 2019 0:48 utc | 168
For those who want more of a detailed picture of what is going on in Hong Kong other than 'this is just another color revolution instigated by the Empire' I offer these two pieces for those who want more.
Towards a Radical Hong Kong Imagination: New Forms and Content in the Movement for Self-Determination
https://medium.com/@chrischien.cn/thoughts-on-june-and-july-2019-in-hong-kong-1e0b5ecd01b0
‘This is my home, I want to be here’: Hong Kong’s ethnic minority protesters on identity and belonging
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/06/home-i-want-hong-kongs-ethnic-minority-protesters-identity-belonging/
Of course elements have been hijacked by the intel agencies and their agent provocateurs on all sides, as Masato Kajimoto, a media researcher and educator at the Journalism and Media Studies Centre at The University of Hong Kong has said:
"It’s not the misinformation itself that is causing the social unrest. Spread of misinformation is simply one of the symptoms of a politically polarized society. It has little real impact because misinformation is not a determining factor in understanding what is going on.
In this politically charged atmosphere, how is misinformation being used to push certain narratives?
Different levels of actors are active on both sides to push their narratives.
State or government actors are obviously doing it for propaganda. Political activists also have similar goals. Internet trolls could be doing it for more clicks. Some pranksters might be trying to mess with the public opinion.
And some ordinary people who are sharing misinformation could be doing it because they genuinely think it helps their friends and families.
True or not, such information feeds into their confirmation bias because it often legitimizes their beliefs; it’s also very satisfying to attack the opposing views. So, there are a wide range of motivations from political ones to psychological ones."
https://www.poynter.org/ifcn/2019/misinformation-amid-hong-kong-protests-a-qa-with-a-researcher-on-the-ground/The alternative media space is really starting to resemble the MSM in that strict adherence to dogmatic thought forms are leading to simplistic analysis of events that leads to confirmation bias.
Ultimately people are free to come to their own conclusions.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 0:59 utc | 169
I must thank the few minimephistopheleses who have graced this topic, along with those who have been inspired to confront them. I think we are learning the judo-like tactics that make this forum delicious to savor for those of us not up to the task of counterplay. Congratulations, guys, the delicate art of antiphonal chorus is not dead!
Thanks to b who has wisely preserved the counterplay.
I shall say again, by their fruits ye shall know them. (Oops, somebody else said that, mea culpa!)
Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2019 1:07 utc | 170
At the risk of being labelled a plagiarist, or even 'a strict adherent to dogmatic thought forms' I shall rephrase my closing remark thusly:
If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck
it probably most likely IS a duck.
Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2019 1:15 utc | 171
I thank karlof1 for linking to b's explanatory post on the anniversary of Tienamin Square uprising. Sobering and well worth revisiting. It strikes me that the youth of Hong Kong are benefiting from China's experience during that sad occurrence. They should thank their lucky stars. I dearly hope nonviolence will win the day, but it is a dangerous road they are presently on, harboring those employing destructive tactics. They would be better off bringing their no doubt justifiable outrage to a peaceful conclusion now that their cause is known. Young people, your country loves you; draw back from the instigators - they are not your friends.
Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2019 1:28 utc | 172
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 16 2019 0:48 utc | 171
Congratulations on your promotion to Captain of the Echo Chamber Enforcer squad. I am sure your family is real proud of you.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 1:30 utc | 173
Hong Kong's problems are the fault of the Hong Kong elites. Shifting the blame to China is a gross Western tactic doomed to failure. That is the big picture here. Hong Kong will never be independent. It never was. It is a creation of Western Imperialism and the scars run deep. China can not fix those scars and Hong Kong cant survive without China. The West doesn't care at all. They are delusional. For them, this is a last ditch effort to strike a blow at the coming world that will marginalize them. This is no different from Ukraine, also ultimately a product of foreign imperialism, in this case of Poland and Austria. The Western elites told themselves that Russia would cease to be a great power without Ukraine. In fact, without Russia, Ukraine is dying. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome. The very definition of insanity.
Posted by: Hong Kong Phooey | Aug 16 2019 1:56 utc | 174
Posted by: O | Aug 14 2019 23:36 utc | 94:
"China's president Xi Jingpin is waging a fierce campaign against corruption... "
Posted by: Jen | Aug 14 2019 23:27 utc | 90He is not. He wants what he thinks he is his, since he is supposed to el jefe de jefes of Eastasia superstate. Some douchebag who sets himself up to be president for life is obviously not about that 'fair and honest life'.
China's central government is far less corrupt than you imagine. Otherwise China would be in a far worse shape now. China is lead by committee. Xi Jinping is the head of the Central Committee. He will be removed if he bungles up.
Posted by: difficult bird | Aug 16 2019 2:46 utc | 175
O 116
As I said earlier some egomaniac makes himself president for life is not about the 'fair and honest life'. But the echo chamber enforcers on this site want to believe in their simple 'US empire bad, Russia and China empires are good 'narrative. What I notice is that the echo chamber enforcers are nothing more than statist authoritarians with childlike worldviews.
I dont give a damn if Mr Xi, Chen, Chang make himself 'prez for life' in China, ...cuz those guys mind their own business, they dont bother us one bit.
I dont give a damn how many prez, aka tptb front managers have been 'elected' in the unitedsnakes,
its still the same old sob , the global tyrant who wanna control every facet of life on our planet.
got it now, kiddo ?
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 2:58 utc | 176
China's central government is far less corrupt than you imagine. Otherwise China would be in a far worse shape now. China is lead by committee. Xi Jinping is the head of the Central Committee. He will be removed if he bungles up.
Posted by: difficult bird | Aug 16 2019 2:46 utc | 178
So why did the "first among equals" feel the need to 'crack down on corruption' as a major initiative since 2012? Seems contradictory to your statement. Some have argued this just another organized campaign to stifle any dissent in particular to Xi Jinping as president potentially for life.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 3:07 utc | 177
I dont give a damn if Mr Xi, Chen, Chang make himself 'prez for life' in China, ...cuz those guys mind their own business, they dont bother us one bit.
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 2:58 utc | 179
Lol okay, because the forever honorable Chinese empire would never conduct any type of espionage. Those good hearted hard working honest folks at the MSS are nowhere near as venal and mendacious as those folks in the CIA and MI6.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 3:14 utc | 178
O 181
hey moron,
I can list hundreds of well documented CIA/MI6 assassinations, coups, outright aggressions right now.
now show me what 'espionage' has China
perpetuated in the same period ?
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 3:37 utc | 179
Wow,those CCP spies are so scary,
but assO here cant even recall one case
of their 'espionage', he's furiously
googling [sic] for some MSM fabrications as 'evidence', lol.
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 3:57 utc | 180
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 3:07 utc | 180:
So why did the "first among equals" feel the need to 'crack down on corruption' as a major initiative since 2012? Seems contradictory to your statement. Some have argued this just another organized campaign to stifle any dissent in particular to Xi Jinping as president potentially for life.
The crackdown is mainly aimed at local governments. If Xi had ulterior motivations for his anti-corruption campaign, he would face wild-spread opposition and never got the chance to scrap the presidential terms. His so-called "president for life" is not garanteed, he will be removed at the end of his second term if he does not perform well.
Posted by: difficult bird | Aug 16 2019 4:00 utc | 181
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 3:37 utc | 182
"Beijing: It's not uncommon for individuals who speak out against the government to disappear in China, but the scope of the "disappeared" has expanded since President Xi Jinping came to power in 2013."https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/china-s-disappeared-a-look-at-who-went-missing-in-2018-20181230-p50ots.html
China pressured authors to uncover Australian government secrets and conducted ‘foreign interference’, local media report
ttps://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3005146/how-china-pressured-authors-uncover-australian-government
Chinese State Hackers Suspected Of Malicious Cyber Attack On U.S. Utilities
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/08/03/chinese-state-hackers-suspected-of-malicious-cyber-attack-on-u-s-utilities/#12b0b72a6758
I know these examples will not meet your standards of interference and espionage, my point is that nobody's hands(Anglo-Zionist, Russian or Chinese) are clean in the spy game. As one of the greatest war criminal in history Henry Kissinger told Putin when they first met.“All decent people got their start in intelligence. I did, too.”
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 4:00 utc | 182
googling [sic] for some MSM fabrications as 'evidence', lol.
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 3:57 utc | 183
I just tried post a few examples but it just got disappeared, so anyways your prejudice to anything I might post makes it pointless anyway. My actual point is that no one's hands are clean in the spy game, the Anglo-Zionist empire, the Russian empire and the Chinese empire are all guilty of espionage on each other. At one level these big 3 are at war and at other levels they cooperate. Your silly little mind may find that hard to comprehend but oh well your talents may lie in other things perhaps oral toilet bowl cleaner might best suit you or professional glue sniffer.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 4:13 utc | 183
O 185
Look assO, Im not interested in
any MSM/NSA/state dept accusations ,
so you can save your breath.
we'r talking about well documented,
proven espionage....like the current
caper in HK.
IOW, you've no case.
fuck off !
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 4:22 utc | 184
If Xi had ulterior motivations for his anti-corruption campaign, he would face wild-spread opposition and never got the chance to scrap the presidential terms. His so-called "president for life" is not garanteed, he will be removed at the end of his second term if he does not perform well.
Posted by: difficult bird | Aug 16 2019 4:00 utc | 184
Ha,good thing that "anti-corruption" campaign is working at so well. That controlled media in China(not to say it doesn't exist in the west) has nary a bad thing to say about the "The first among equals" they always tell the truth, propaganda only exist in the west.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 4:23 utc | 185
@Anacharsis No 1:
Because Hong Kong is Chinese territory seized by the Brutish colonial regime during China's "century of humiliation", and the Chinese are determined to erase the effects of colonial subjugation, that's why.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | Aug 16 2019 6:40 utc | 186
@ziogolem
That is simply not true. In Chinese crisis does not mean "danger plus opportunity", no matter what self help speakers say.
http://www.pinyin.info/chinese/crisis.html
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | Aug 16 2019 6:43 utc | 187
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 4:23 utc
Ha,good thing that "anti-corruption" campaign is working at so well. That controlled media in China(not to say it doesn't exist in the west) has nary a bad thing to say about the "The first among equals" they always tell the truth, propaganda only exist in the west.
Try not to cite obvious biased western media that has partaken in the intervention chaos the empire has done around the world. Try to be impartial.
Whatever the west say about Chinese governance is the fact they succeed in raising their country building up their infrastructure and lifting many up from poverty.
Obviously most posters here despise the West hypocritical political encroachment using the Democratic jingoism and obviously they do not like instabilities caused by it. Governing don't have to be single system such as western democracy they only has to work.
If you have something to share on how the corruption work in details on Chinese government inner working then feel free to share but take caution most if not all posters here will doubt it if any of them come from western mainstream media.
Posted by: HW | Aug 16 2019 8:47 utc | 188
Straight from the US State Department (these trolls are useful if you know what to look for): "Hong Kong’s ethnic minority protesters on identity..."
The capitalist empire has long honed the skills needed to encourage people to fixate on perceived slights to their "identities" and redirect them away from concrete issues that determine the qualities of their lives. "My life sucks because everybody is racist!" and "I could achieve my dreams if it were not for all of those people prejudiced against mountain panda gendered individuals!" are no threat to the business elites (on the contrary, they represent new market opportunities) while "The rent is too damn high!" and "My income and job security is crap!" are existential threats to capitalism when people focus upon them.
Identity politics is the sweet and addictive opiated snake oil that the corporate elites sell, like the British empire sold opium to the Chinese, that paralyses resistance to the empire. The identity politics addicts yield their autonomy to those who control the narratives about their identities (that's corporate mass media these days, if you couldn't guess it... used to mostly be organized religion in the past), just like the opium addicts yield their autonomy to their dealers.
Do Hong Kong's ethnic minorities have anything to gain by participating in the empire's regime change operation? Of course not. The ones fooled into joining are just doing what they have been convinced by the snake oil salesmen that their "identities" depend upon.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 16 2019 14:15 utc | 189
Posted by: HW | Aug 16 2019 8:47 utc | 191
I am not going to play your Catch 22 game your an adult I assume and know how to use the internet.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 14:46 utc | 190
"Do Hong Kong's ethnic minorities have anything to gain by participating in the empire's regime change operation? Of course not. The ones fooled into joining are just doing what they have been convinced by the snake oil salesmen that their "identities" depend upon."
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 16 2019 14:15 utc | 192
So sayeth the ideological authoritarian, that's it folks it is just a bunch of brainwashed minorities who don't know what is good for them.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 14:56 utc | 191
Identity politics is the reductio ad absurdum of Western Liberalism. It is the final form of a fraud perpetuated on the hapless masses who are fooled into thinking their concerns matter. In the end, this farce pits different groups against each other while the elites maintain their power. This is what the people of Hong Kong are signing up for? It must be because that is the only destination their protests are taking them. Yes, the West will destroy Hong Kong just to hurt or embarrass China. There's a fool born every minute.
Posted by: LiberalChains | Aug 16 2019 16:02 utc | 192
I am not going to play your Catch 22 game your an adult I assume and know how to use the internet.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 14:46 utc | 193
I'm not Chinese and neither i can read mandarin. What you can get through search engine in English is just western msm with serious biased often outright hostile to China
Views. There's nothing you can use in there to learn about China honestly. If you have something else that really not coming from western msm talking point then feel free to bring that up in discussion.
"Do Hong Kong's ethnic minorities have anything to gain by participating in the empire's regime change operation? Of course not. The ones fooled into joining are just doing what they have been convinced by the snake oil salesmen that their "identities" depend upon."
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 16 2019 14:15 utc | 192
So sayeth the ideological authoritarian, that's it folks it is just a bunch of brainwashed minorities who don't know what is good for them.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 14:56 utc
Really now do the west know what's good for them ?
You may say it here what's really for them ? What would you decide for them ?
Posted by: HW | Aug 16 2019 16:07 utc | 193
There is no viable economic model for an independent Hong Kong anymore. The old days of an imperial outpost exploiting cheap labor on the mainland are gone forever. All these dumb kids showing their asses are ultimately the victims of child abuse. Their parents raised them to be full of contempt and bigotry against the mainland while their own prospects sank into the mud. That is just economic and demographic realism. It is not China's fault, it is Hong Kong's fault. The West's attempt to weaponize the situation is a disgrace that will help no one in the end...especially the kids in Hong Kong.
Posted by: LiberalChains | Aug 16 2019 16:20 utc | 194
Really now do the west know what's good for them ?
You may say it here what's really for them ? What would you decide for them ?
Posted by: HW | Aug 16 2019 16:07 utc | 196
Dingleberry I am not advocating for western intervention or the perceived virtues of the West, go read my earlier post. I am not denying elements of the Hong Kong protest have been hi-jacked by outside elements (Anglo-Zionist and mainland China) but to deny that there are endemic and organic reasons for the protest and grassroot organizing is to delegitimize those folks who are truly fighting for self determination and self governance. The alternative media space is becoming no better than the MSM in painting with these broad strokes in order to keep adherence to accepted dogma which I find is becoming quite common and caustic to actual freedom of thought.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 16:21 utc | 195
Hong Kong already governs itself, and they have governed the place into an impossible corner as to an economic future. And the buzz phrase "self determination"... Funny how the West sees merit in "self determination" for Hong Kong, but not for Catalonia or (God forbid) Crimea. The fact the West sees that "self determination" as a geopolitical plum is...well don't look behind the curtain.
Posted by: LiberalChains | Aug 16 2019 16:32 utc | 196
@denk #182
There is no debate whatsoever that Chinese government sponsored cyber espionage exists and has occurred many times. The OPM hack was almost certainly Chinese, although most effort is directed towards industrial espionage.
Of course, everybody spies on everyone else.
Another, more public example can be seen in these 2 pics:
The Chinese J31
vs.
The US F35
Are these very close similarities - basically, the main difference is the 2 engine J31 vs. 1 engine F35, likely a result of capability gap - just a coincidence?
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2019 16:51 utc | 197
What I don't believe I've seen talked about is that Hong Kong is no longer a financial center for China. There was mention of relative GDP%, but that's somewhat different.
Hong Kong, in the initial period following the handover, was positioned as a bridge between Communist China (with capitalist tendencies) and the rest of the world.
That gatekeeper/tollkeeper role is largely gone. Hong Kong's financial center eminence has been seriously eroded both by Singapore (for other Asian nations) and by Shanghai (companies within China).
I would not be surprised that this loss of opportunity is at least somewhat underlying the youth discontent in Hong Kong: they're both constrained from being "fully Western" and no longer have an advantageous position with regards to China's contact with the rest of the world.
And sadly, this also means that violent protests will go nowhere. They have nothing to hold hostage but themselves, and that won't hold up.
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2019 16:55 utc | 198
I would not be surprised that this loss of opportunity is at least somewhat underlying the youth discontent in Hong Kong: they're both constrained from being "fully Western" and no longer have an advantageous position with regards to China's contact with the rest of the world.
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2019 16:55 utc | 201
Exactly, Hong Kong is not unique in that disaffected youth in developed nations are growing in number.
The Occupy Movement in the US a few years back was the same thing which eventually got co-opted and crushed.
"Hong Kong’s youth must be seen in a global context. First, while the younger generation in developing countries can expect a better standard of living than their parents, the opposite is true for developed economies — Hong Kong included.
Second, in many cities, from Australia to Canada, the younger generation are struggling with the prohibitively high costs of home ownership.'
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3022225/hong-kong-have-future-its-young-people-must-have-hope
"Why Hong Kong’s angry and disillusioned youth are making their voices heard
As residential property prices continue to rise in what is already one of the most expensive cities in the world, Hong Kong’s youth find themselves priced out of ever owning their own homes and raging against more than the proposed extradition bill"
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/3019591/why-hong-kongs-angry-and-disillusioned-youth-are
I notice a lot of commenters on this board attacking the youth of Hong Kong protests sound very familiar to the older generations who attack youth for daring to want and create change ala "those dirty stinking hippies " and 'they don't know how good they got it' or 'silly kids being led around by the nose'.
Another is, 'those youth need to sit quietly and accept their new "Beijing" overlords.
Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 17:19 utc | 199
O
*corruption*
I dont give a damn if Xi's pocketed the state fund for the next five year plan, that's the Chinese problem,
it doesnt bother me , nor the rest of
world.
OTOH,
Corruption in the unitedsnake is an entirely different ball game.
They've this MIC thingee, in order to feed this egregious beast, the murkkans have to dream up some false pretext every other month to bomb/regime change some country, thats how they make a living.
Thats why they have been at war every single year since 1785.
THATS EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM.
Planet earth has a malignant tumor which requires a chemo blast and it isnt China/Russia, THAT'S THE
REASON WHY B STARTED MOA !
so stop your misdirection game and fuck off.
Posted by: denk | Aug 16 2019 17:20 utc | 200
The comments to this entry are closed.
O @96 <== Did that fist bump sprain your wrist? Poor O!
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 15 2019 0:10 utc | 99
"They say arguing with an idiot make two of them, so I leave you alone on this one"
Posted by: O | Aug 15 2019 0:20 utc | 101