Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 25, 2019

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2019-50

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

The black block in Hong Kong, which consists of just a few hundred youth, is now back at rioting. Subway stations get vandalized and people pushed off the trains that the rioters use to ferry from one flash mob incident to the next one. Bricks and Molotov cocktails are thrown at police lines. Some protesters use baseball bats against the police, others have handguns. Today the police, for the first time, deployed water cannon trucks. One policeman fired a warning shot against the increasingly brutal mob. It is only of question of time until the first person gets killed.

The allegedly "leaderless" protesters even have a Dummy Guide for frontline rioters.

Miles Kwok aka Guo Wengui is a disgruntled Chinese oligarch. He is one of the men who finances the Hong Kong protests. Here he appears with Steve Bannon Miles Kwok & Mr Bannon: The 5 principles on Hong Kong’s matter (vid). But the NYT still claims that the nativist protesters' use of Pepe the frog is not a sign of alt-right influence.

Joshua Wong, one of the U.S. coddled students, compares the situation with 2014 Maidan riots in Ukraine. He is right in more ways than he says.

Khan Shaykhun and all surrounding villages are now liberated. There was little resistance left as most of the Jihadis had slipped out of the encirclement before it closed. The Syrian army is now concentrating forces to go further north towards Maarat al-Numan. The preparing bombing campaign is ongoing.

Last night Israel bombed a Hezbullah workshop south of Damascus. Three Hizbullah engineers were killed and two were wounded. Additionally an Israeli short-range drone landed on Hizbullah's media office in Beirut, Lebanon. A second drone, probably sent to destroy the first one, appeared and exploded. No one was hurt. The drone operators must have been relatively nearby, most likely on some boat off Beirut.

Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah addressed Israel in his July 12 speech: "You kill one of our own in Syria and we will respond and respond from Lebanon." Nasrallah, who tends to hold his promises, is due to speak today at 17:00 local time. Expect some fireworks ...

Maj. Danny Sjursen: We're Listening to the Wrong Voices on Syria - TruthDig

Elijah Magnier reports that Israel is most likely behind this: Who is Behind Blowing up Ammunition Warehouses in Iraq? Iran is the Target. I still have my doubts about that.

The text of Mark Carney's Jackson Hole speech: The Growing Challenges for Monetary Policy in the current International Monetary and Financial System

Other issues:

Epstein:

Whitney Webb published another of her amazing pieces about the Epstein case: From “Spook Air” to the “Lolita Express”: The Genesis and Evolution of the Jeffrey Epstein-Bill Clinton Relationship - Mintpress News

Prof. Micheal Brenner looks into the lack of #MeToo outrage about the Epstein case: The Missing Howls of Denunciation Over Major Sex Trafficking - Consortiumnews - My take: It's an obvious class issues. The #MeToo establishment does not care about working class kids and women.

A Dead Cat, A Lawyer's Call And A 5-Figure Donation: How Media Fell Short On Epstein - NPR

Yemen:

The UAE supported southern separatists in South Yemen are not welcome outside of Aden. Some southern tribes mobilized against them as well as against the Saudis and the Houthi. The war to start all wars: Inside Yemen’s troubled south - Independent

Afghanistan:

There are no Afghan peace negotiations. There are peace negotiations between the U.S. and the (U.S. created) Taliban who will continue to fight against the (U.S. installed) government even while the U.S. wants the Taliban to fight the (U.S. installed) ISIS in Afghanistan. Robert Fisk: A century after the Anglo-Afghan peace treaty, the Fourth Afghan War is about to escalate - Independent

G-7:

The real G7, measured by nominal GDP, are: 1. USA, 2. China, 3 Japan, 4. Germany, 5. UK, 6. France, 7.India.  When measured by GDP in Purchase Power Parity the list is different: 1. China, 2. USA, 3. India, 4. Japan, 5. Germany, 6. Russia, 7. Indonesia. At the G7 meeting in France today are the USA (2nd), Japan (4th), Germany (5th), UK (9th), France (10th), Italy (12th) and Canada (17th).  Iran's Foreign Minister Javad Zarif just arrived in Biarritz where the G-7 is holding their meeting. He will probably talk with Trump.

Media:

Who is providing your news? 15 Former Spooks Who Work At CNN And MSNBC Now -Daily Caller

Music:

Led Zeppelin cover by a Balalaika group: Stairway To Heaven (vid)

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 25, 2019 at 13:51 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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The latest by Crooke I found a curious read since he bases his article on his interpretation of Adam Tooze's books about the world wars, neither of which I've read. Curious because we know from Hudson that the counterrevolution by the Feudal Lords of banking and land holding against Classical Economists and their political allies began in earnest well before then in @1870 and that their Race for Africa was a big part of their efforts to regain their hold on their home governments. Within the USA, a similar revolution was being waged although it began several decades later in response to the Populists. As Hudson points out, WW1 was a coup for the USA's financial sector and allowed them to gain control of academia to erase Marx and his Classical Economist allies and replace them with their own toadies along with their newly formed product--Propaganda and the nascent Police State, which the institution of Prohibition greatly facilitated.

I wrote the above to provide barflies with a contrasting historical context much of which was recently reviewed via all the Marxian discussion and where the actual roots of Neoliberalism are seated. Deep at the core is the battle by Banksters and their allies to keep their institutions private versus the Classical and Populist goal of making them public utilities and how the World Wars helped the former to gain their goals. Tooze's narrative seems okay on the surface, and it clearly fooled Crooke, but it's incomplete. What did the European Powers run out first that generated WW1's stalemate? Money for arms as posited or human bodies to man those arms? In George Seldes's censored interview with Hindenburg a week after the Armistice, published in You Can't Print That!, the defeated Field Marshal admitted it was the entry of American Men--human numbers--that turned the tide and made it clear to him that the war couldn't be won. Sure, money helped get the doughboys over there, but before they arrived masses of money were sent in both directions that didn't change the balance other than to create the unpayable postwar debts the Americans demanded be paid.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 15:45 utc | 101

For what it’s worth, see previous posts -- I could not find any evidence that Epstein ever was in the Lower Manhattan Hosp., with the exception of two ‘official’ docs:

a) letter from the Chief Warden saying Epstein was sent there "with life threatening injuries"

https://cryptome.org/2019/08/epstein-044-046.pdf

b) a shoddy copy of his death certificate which states the Hosp. as place of death. All the signatories to this document are ‘legit’, I checked.

The form is also ‘correct’. Cause of death is listed as PENDING. The informant was brother Mark.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/08/20/14/17482618-7364125-Officials_say_Epstein_hanged_himself_with_a_bed_sheet_as_he_wait-m-74_1566309216483.jpg

All the visual material is ‘faked - photoshopped’, ‘staged’, ‘dodgy’ or ‘unrelated.’ Why was patient X brought into that weird side-entrance (supposedly) and not the main one where staff and equipment is ready to receive emergency and rush?

I looked for: other stories, from staff (many of whom I identified), drivers, reports, neighbors who might have seen something, etc. Pix, cell phone.. conspiracy posts, incl. the wildest. Nothing. (Of course, staff might have been threatened for speaking out …) -> Compare to e.g. Skripals where there is plenty of testimony of them being in the hospital.

My intuition at present is that Epstein’s disapearance or death was shunted away from the jail (where serious high-jinks went on) to a more ‘legitimate’, ‘expert authority’, to avoid, bury, controversy, objections, challenges.

According to the mentioned ‘official’ docs, he was found unresponsive at 6.30 am in the jail, the victim of life threatening insults as stated, was then sent to the hosp. and was declared deceased at 7.36. am at the hosp. (Sat. 10 August.) While the distance is tiny, that is still mighty quick. Sort of, nothing to see here. And nobody saw anything except the photographer Harrington who turned up (at what time? via what tips?) to offer photos that are clumsy photoshops.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 26 2019 15:59 utc | 102

@Arioch #102
Global Foundries was AMD's manufacturing plants. ATI had no manufacturing when it was acquired/merged with AMD.
Global Foundries then acquired Chartered Semiconductor, a Taiwan fabless company that was the Taiwan equivalent of AMD, but compared to TSMC. It later also acquired some of IBM's manufacturing plants.
Global Foundries is owned by the Emirate of Abu Dhabi (UAE).
Global Foundries has made a splash, but none of the 3 intake manufacturing facilities was ever very impressive on its own - at least in the last 30+ years.
I don't know what the most recent data is, but TSMC held 58% of the worldwide foundry market share in 2016. Global Foundries plus SMIC plus UMC held 26% between all 3.
In other words: TSMC isn't quite as dominant as Intel used to be in the microprocessor market, but they're definitely the big dog, being 6 times (or more) bigger than anyone else.
The lawsuit is definitely pure lawfare.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2019 16:09 utc | 103

Houthis attack Riyadh with multiple drones. The Saudi capital likely has the densest air defenses of any Saudi location. I've yet to read any reports on the aftermath.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 16:09 utc | 104

Amazonia in Flames

NASA reports that about 3.2 million square kilometers of South America are covered by smoke. The Brazilian Space Research spotted 72,000 fires, of which 9,000 last week alone.

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 26 2019 16:14 utc | 106

karlofi@103
Hindenburg realised that the manpower resources of the US were crucial, though they hardly came into play on the battle field. But it was US raw materials, combined with the British blockade, that were the crucxial factor. With the US the Alliance was simply, even minus Russia, too big, too powerful. And then there was the military reality that the Allies were beginning to organise themselves on the battlefield: including tanks etc.
As for the "Feudal Lords of Banking..." Hudson is a great resource, but his theory sounds wrong to me.

@97 You are, of course right about the thousand year old provenance of the 'drang nach osten' my reference to 'the German Zane Grey' was intended by be funny. Sorry.

@99 I agree entirely with your assessment of Hitler and his movement.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 26 2019 16:21 utc | 107

Zarif's in China and reveals his mission:

"After stopping in Tehran from Biarritz to change planes, arrived in Beijing.

"Important days ahead:
Here, I will present a 25-year roadmap to materialize our Comprehensive Strategic Partnership, & actively contribute to Belt & Road Initiative.

"Next: Japan and Malaysia."

Wow! A 25-year plan to make real what's being termed a "Comprehensive Strategic Partnership" after close talks with the German and French Foreign Ministers. Sure doesn't seem like Iran's very isolated to me.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 16:24 utc | 108

Sorry for posting links, but I think these are interesting re. recent post on MoA.

Trump cited "good feelings" about Iran...

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-26/macron-trump-suggest-direct-meeting-irans-rouhani-could-happen-weeks

I think Costanza rule applies: Whatever they say, truth is opposite.

Posted by: jared | Aug 26 2019 16:30 utc | 109

@ Noirette | Aug 26 2019 15:59 utc | 104

b has jpig copy of fb posting 0745 10 aug putatively from inside source, who opines that it was a switch - ergo the corpse ain't mr e. Presumably a guard at MCC sent this. E may well be dead, but the eye witness seems to be, and to hold the terrible opinion that it was a swap for a ringer.

It was seen at about 9 am that day by a trusted agent. I can attest to that. It's a "first report" kinda thing, and I think it's valid.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 26 2019 16:47 utc | 110

Thank you Noirette and Walter.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 26 2019 16:55 utc | 111

bevin @109--

When I first happened across Seldes's interview and knowing the "stabbed in the back" claim that Hitler used in his rise to power, I was very curious as to why it was censored--what possible reason could be claimed to withhold such an important set of revelations? Clearly as Seldes himself says, if it had been published at the time, the entire course of subsequent history would likely have taken a different direction. Are you familiar with Seldes? He was I.F. Stone's idol and model with a penchant for truth-telling regardless of the subject or people involved. The book I linked to is filled with similar stories that contradicted the current narrative being sold to the masses, and his subsequent works are similar. But as you might guess, few people have ever heard of him or his writings.

Given what Hudson reveals about the manipulation of the learning/teaching of political-economy, it would be very wise to suspect much of what was/is produced via the "social sciences," (history written by the victors) which is why my collegiate mentor stressed the learning methodology he devised to try and arrive at the best non-subjective conclusion as possible whatever the inquiry--to try and duplicate as closely as possible the scientific method for confirmation of theories. I've discovered quite a lot of metaphysics within the entire spectrum of social science disciplines that's made me question a vast catalog of assumptions. As Fischer and other historians have discovered, historical truth often lies literally in the margins--the annotations--made by decision makers or obscure signals reports filed away within deep archives or forensic chemical reports detailing what is or isn't present within the samples. The learning of the revealed truths can be painful, making the adage Ignorance is Bliss rather powerful and enticing. But that's not for me as I subscribe to the alternative adage, The Truth will set you Free.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 17:02 utc | 112

@ Karlofi That's an interesting post. David Irving has opinions related to the fella, who is, I think quite obviously been made into pharmacos while NATO seems to mirror the Reich... Actually the propagandist wrote the history. If you want honest stuff, read diaries, the diaries of the wives are the best.

But to amusment>

..................
An amusing rhyme from History... Everyone knows the Story of The Great King Xerxes who had the Sea Whipped. (searchterm> hellespont whipping the sea Xerxes). Well now it has come 'round to using atomic explosives against the weather...behold as Xerxes was the Great King, we have a Great Clown... (man, must we live this period and witness such humiliation?)


"...suggested on more than one occasion that the US military should bomb hurricanes in order to disrupt them before they make landfall.
Something rotten? Trump's state over Denmark at heart of a madcap week
Read more

According to US news website Axios, the president said in a meeting with top national security and homeland security officials about the threat of hurricanes: “I got it. I got it. Why don’t we nuke them?”

“They start forming off the coast of Africa, as they’re moving across the Atlantic, we drop a bomb inside the eye of the hurricane and it disrupts it. Why can’t we do that?”

Quoting unnamed sources who were present at the meeting, Axios report that the response from one official was “We’ll look into this.”

On Sunday, the White House declined to comment on the Axios report. “We don’t comment on private discussions that the president may or may not..." (Guardian, fragment, fair use)

Posted by: Walter | Aug 26 2019 17:15 utc | 113

And let us not forget that lost under the extolling of Chinese virtue lies one inconvenient fact: wealth inequality is great and growing in China along similar demographic lines as in the also heinously unequal US.
And both gaps are expanding as we stand in the future shadow of a coming global meltdown propelled largely by the nationalist impulse to tear down something which can't possibly be rebuilt through nationalism.
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 25 2019 9:08 utc | 116
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 26 2019 6:33 utc | 69

Not according to the World Bank. According to their figures:
2012 China had a Gini coefficient of .42
2013 USA had a Gini coefficient of .41

In 2019 according to the World Bank:
China had a Gini coefficient of .386
while the USA had a Gini coefficient of .415.
Perhaps you have another source of figures?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 26 2019 17:26 utc | 114

@115 Hopefully someone pointed out that the fallout might hit Miami. Just when Trump has found the ideal location for the next G7 summit....

""It's not about me, it's about getting the right location," he said at a news conference on Monday."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49474537

Posted by: dh | Aug 26 2019 17:34 utc | 115

@ Grieved | Aug 26 2019 5:13 utc | 66
The most significant obstacle to establishment of communism is found in the Manifesto itself: (regarding mis-appropriation and exploitation of the many by the few) "In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property." Abolition of private property is the abolition of privacy. Therefore, moving "beyond capitalism" means the abolition of privacy. How many people gonna go for that? (Besides the obviously exceptional specimens of selfless humanity represented here at MoA?) Do you really believe that privacy=greed?
Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 26 2019 7:54 utc | 72

I don't see this. Privacy and property are not equivalent. For example in pre-Columbian Mexico, I understand, there was commonly owned land and when someone came of age they were given somewhere to build a house and grow food. When they died, it reverted to the community. If they were good at a craft or farming they might become rich, if not they remained poor. There was no proper monetary system, merely an elaborate system of barter with small change in the form of cocoa beans. However, afaIkn privacy in one's own land was much like anywhere else.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 26 2019 17:41 utc | 116

Grieved @66

I'm just reading Keen's 2nd Edition of his Debunking Economics: The Naked Emperor Dethroned? where he writes on page 29: "[...], conventional Marxsim is as replete with logical errors as is neoclassical economics, even though Marx himself provides a far better foundation for economic analysis than did Walras or Marshall."

To my knowledge, Keen refers to himself as a Post-keynesian economist (not to be confused with bastardized Keynesian or central banks' Neo-Keynesian economics), highly influenced by the work of Hyman Minsky who learned under Schumpeter.

Posted by: Vato | Aug 26 2019 17:51 utc | 117

Potent air defense and global solidarity would stop the Hegemon and make space for a better, more democratic, more free, more diverse human future; there would not even have to be any loss of life. As long as countries that resist can be effectively isolated, though, and plunged into hell -- if not outright conquered, picked off one-by-one -- talk about the Hegemon losing its grip (which we constantly see in the alternative media) is nonsense.
Posted by: paul | Aug 26 2019 11:36 utc | 82

In other words : "Don't hope, take dope, give up."

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 26 2019 17:53 utc | 118

Walter @115--

Thanks for your reply! Yes, diaries are excellent; they are very much like annotations. Fischer examined the Kaiser's annotations. Stinnett found the signals routing logs and notes. A German lab did the chemical forensics and published its damning report. All 3 are related to the 3 World Wars. All 3 are only known by a small number of people and would be considered very uncomfortable truths. Hudson's learned and exposed another packet of uncomfortable truths. It's my experience that teaching uncomfortable truths is rather difficult unless you're tenured. And that's why I frequent this bar and scribble my graffiti.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 17:55 utc | 119

Vato @119--

Hudson considered Minsky a friend and called him a "giant" within the political-economic realm as a founder of MMT.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 18:04 utc | 120

Noirette @104

The photos at the hospital seem real to me.

If you don't know the area, the hospital is only a few blocks from the prison.

Some have said that the pics make it look like Epstein was brought to a fire station (the ambulance crews have "FDNY" on their jackets) but the back of the hospital (where ambulances bring patients) actually looks like that and FDNY does have an extensive ambulance service in New York.

I don't think the pics are photoshopped either.

But the pics have other serious problems:

> The body has the kind of orange prison garb that most people associate with prison but the prison actually uses brown/tan material;

> The pics appear to be staged or cherry-picked so that only a limited view of Epstein is provided (most importantly, his neck is covered);

> The ear and nose of the body differ from Epstein's (IMO this is not definitive but adds to the above problems).


Then there's the strange early message (as described by Walter @112) saying that Epstein had been "switched out". It provides details that lend credibility - like the prison not transferring prisoners on the weekend.

And the Coroner's determination of suicide: there hasn't even been an attempt to explain how asphyxiation by leaning can cause multiple neck bones to break. A determination of suicide was necessary to get the body released so that it could be disposed of.

IMO the body should've been identified by the victims and by dna (as a registered sex offender, the government should have his dna). Instead, it appears that the only ID was by Epstein's brother, who could inherit tens or hundreds of millions from Epstein's estate!

The cherry on top of this ghastly mess is Ghislaine's photoshopped pic at "In and Out" Burger. A "Good Boys" movie poster was added so that the message at the top reads: "Good Boys, In and Out".

I wonder if Ghislaine's message was made in response to the early message that Walter points out. It may be an attempt to muddy the waters. Allowing the establishment to discrediting "conspiracy theories" by saying that Ghislaine wouldn't brag about the extraction of Epstein if it had been successful.

I also think that Ghislaine might be next for a new life after a convenient "suicide" (like her father and Epstein) and her video may help to set that up (in addition to muddying waters about Epstein's extraction) as it fixes her image in the public's eye so that when it's changed (plastic surgery, hair dye, etc.) she will not be recognized.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 26 2019 18:05 utc | 121

karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 15:45 utc | 103

What did the European Powers run out first that generated WW1's stalemate? Money for arms as posited or human bodies to man those arms? In George Seldes's censored interview with Hindenburg a week after the Armistice, published in You Can't Print That!, the defeated Field Marshal admitted it was the entry of American Men--human numbers--that turned the tide and made it clear to him that the war couldn't be won. Sure, money helped get the doughboys over there, but before they arrived masses of money were sent in both directions that didn't change the balance other than to create the unpayable postwar debts the Americans demanded be paid.

I am not sure but I think it may have been glycerine, which was made from fat (to make nitro-glycerine). Certainly there was a fat shortage.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 26 2019 18:24 utc | 122

@Sunny Runny Burger #101
I have no idea what you're trying to convey - particularly when you start talking about Capitalism as being "not Marxism", throw in Libertarianism - which is political, not economic, and state that Marxism was actually implemented as envisioned despite the reality that all of the so-called Marxists nations were non-industrial revolutions by peasants.
Equally, I don't have any idea what the point of organic is intended to convey. It sounds more like Laissez Faire: abstention by governments from interfering in the workings of the free market.
And while it is true that the term Capitalism arose from Marx's writings concerning Capitalists, everyone understands very well that it is technically supposed to equate to free markets.
Free markets in turn were written nearly 100 years before Marx.
Das Kapital was first published in 1867, Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations was published in 1776.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2019 18:37 utc | 123

@foolisholdman #124
Do you have a source link for this statement?
This is the first time I ever heard that World War 1 was ended due to specific materials shortages as opposed to manpower shortages or overall economic burden.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 26 2019 18:45 utc | 124

@ Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 26 2019 7:54 utc | 72

No, when communists talk about private property, they are referring to the means of production.

Personal possessions will still exist in socialism and communism (as well as your private/individual life): nobody is going to take your lunch and steal your cellphone in a socialist/communist society under the argument they are "ours".

Human beings are never just their bodies: they have an existence outside it, which means natural resources being constantly transformed around it. That will never change.

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2019 18:51 utc | 125

Will Trump's intimations about meeting with Rouhani win the footrace? His competitor? Israel's determination to get the Mideast theater of WW3 started in earnest. Racking up two declarations of war in as many days (Lebanon and Iraq) ain't too shabby a head-start. The game is to deprive Trump of the initiative. The Israelis are smelling capitulation and a fresh outbreak of post-JCPOA yakking. The time is now. Trump had better get with the program. He still has a chance to look like Presidential Instigator. Failing that, he'll just have to be dragged in unceremoniously and then scramble post facto to look like Instigator. It's a PR dilemma. His military's already there, poised for action. This may be the first war to launch right over the head -and better judgement- of JCS Head Dunsford himself. False flag momentum is a funny thing. The time couldn't be riper for war to get a jump on cooler heads.

After all, War has its own thoughts on the matter and will only let human beings dither for so long before taking the helm and asserting its own predilections:

"Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came." --Lincoln Second Inagural

Posted by: FSD | Aug 26 2019 19:14 utc | 126

And as Hudson endlessly intones, the term free markets didn't mean free from regulation; rather, it means free from entities who covet controlling markets.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 19:34 utc | 127

G7 Leaders´Declaration.

Well nothing new under the sun, but at least they agreed, on paper, in respecting international law and seek a peaceful andnegotiated approach to solve international issues....To see wheher The Donald will commit to that or, as he did past year, will pass the agreement for that said part... bet for the latter..

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 26 2019 20:00 utc | 128

The Atlantic on Warren at DNC Summer Meeting in San Francisco reminds me of another former Republican:

"Warren’s insider-outsider routine is one reason Democratic operatives and analysts told me—and one another, in private conversations—that they’ve begun to see her as the odds-on favorite to win her party’s nomination. However, a few of the Democrats I spoke with noted that her positioning could become a trap: With Sanders and Warren expected to battle even more intensely in the coming months, the change-hungry part of the Democratic base might begin to ask why establishment insiders seem so comfortable with her." [My Emphasis]

As was observed on another thread, Warren is akin to HRC and Obama as the bolded phrase above clearly refers to. Yesterday I asked who the fix was in for; the answer is clearly Warren as she has all the necessary attributes of the Turn Coat.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 20:03 utc | 129

c1ue I apologize I was trying to inject some "heretical" thoughts into the many discussions on economics that have taken place here recently. In case it was a source of misunderstanding the comment wasn't a reply to anyone but a general comment. I realize that those discussing are likely to be as earnest and well-meaning as is possible but I would rather avoid seeing this centruy repeating all the same old crap that dominated the last disasterous one.

I dislike writing "essays" here so I try to be consice(!) and end up only being confusing.

My point is that the economic theories which in turn become or are used in politics, commerce, and administration completely miss the nature or essence of economics and treat it as something it is not and thus probably can't ever reach the level of understanding that could provide genuine answers and solutions to problems but instead cause additional problems.

I don't think I wrote anything about any implementations of Marxism specifically but it doesn't change anything and any/all failures of Marxism is explained by what I wrote from my point of view just as much as the current global economic situation (also a failure) is explained.

Organic: think of it as if it was a living being (although it absolutely isn't). Economics would then be the health and survival of that being and all its cells and organelles and so on (which economics certainly do not have). It is a very different kind of complexity than for example a typical computer of the kind we use to post here in 2019. I wanted to avoid the example of life because it is very misleading and I think it will probably only cause (more) confusion.

The problem with illustrating "by example" is that people tend to take the example and run away with that instead of looking at whatever it was meant to be illustrative of.

From my point of view laissez-faire which is just a fancy way of saying nothing aka "economic non-interference" and intimately coupled with Libertarianism is not organic at all but similarly to Marxism is a reaction to not sufficiently understanding or acknowledging that economics has an organic nature. Maybe it helps explain things if one claims the organic nature is inherited from the human activity of economics but I am talking about the system of economics itself rather than any focus on the participants (which are irrational actors and not at all rational).

In Libertarianism the non-solution is to claim that economics is s self-regulating system but technically anything is self-regulating, it is a statement without substance and essentially an excuse to do anything at all without any consideration. The end result is self-defeat: it kills itself (and while dead is still technically a self-regulating system, so much for that).

In Marxism the non-solutions is to claim control and force regulation in whatever form upon the economy, however doing so without understanding what one is actually manipulating can't succeed over time. Again the end result is self-defeat: it kills itself (and while dead is still technically under control, so much for that).

Economists are far too busy looking at economy as if it was a(n ever more detailed) collection of shops and their accounting and efficiency and optimums and thus can't reach further than tallying whereas the actual economics or even the nature of economics remains a black box. Smith and Marx just as much as anyone else; they make themselves masters of accounting but not economics.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 26 2019 20:19 utc | 130

Magnier on Nuttyahoo's escalating provocations encapsulates the most recent series of events, although he doesn't attempt to link the actions to the upcoming elections. Hezbollah threatened direct retaliation against Occupied Palestine; Iraq chose to blame the Outlaw US Empire; Syria remained silent; the G-7 said nothing. The recent proposal by Iran to refurbish one pipeline and build another to Syria's coastline would certainly become a Zionist target. So, for the project to have the proper security, Occupied Palestine needs to be liberated. Nasrallah isn't known as a bluffer, while Nuttyahoo's prone to be too aggressive. Do the Zionists see the current situation as possibly the final time they have some sort of an advantage as Magnier seems to imply and attack since they know the Outlaw US Empire won't?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 20:36 utc | 131


The US launched a land based Tomahawk nuclear-capable intermediate range cruise missile less than 3 weeks after the US withdrew from the INF Treaty. Clearly, the missile was under development for some time prior to the test; the sea-based variant launched by naval vessels armed with the Aegis systems can carry a W80 variable yield warhead (5-150 kilotons).

The land-based Tomahawk was also launched by the multipurpose Mark 41 launch system, which is deployed at the Aegis Ashore facility in Romania and soon-to-be-opened Aegis Ashore facility in Poland. This clearly demonstrates the the Ballistic Missile "Defense" systems deployed in Romania and Poland by the US/NATO can also be used to launch offensive nuclear weapons. Because the missiles are deployed in closed cannisters, it is impossible for observers to verify if the cannisters contain interceptor missiles or cruise missiles.

Putin specifically warned about this possibility in 2016.

Several days ago, Putin told his security council that the BMD deployments are/were "a direct and material breach of the INF Treaty." The Russians believe the US was planning all along to use the BMD facilities to target Russia with both offensive and defensive weapons (defensive in the sense that US/NATO BMD can be used as a mop-up system to take out remaining Russian nuclear forces after a US first strike). US Neocons may believe that this will give them leverage in any confrontation with Russia. I think they are wrong, I think it will simply tempt the Russians to take out these facilities early on in the event of any direct military conflict with the US/NATO.

Putin is now explicity making the point that Russia will have to consider these BMD facilities as a direct threat to Russia and will respond symmetrically, with at "tit-for-tat" response. This may also include Russian missiles in Cuba and Venezuela.

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 26 2019 20:38 utc | 132

@ Karlof1 Aug 26 2019 19:34 utc

Far more workable:

"Freedom" is meaningless until the "freedom from" target is specified.

Observably, this seems not generally known.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 26 2019 20:38 utc | 133

But, in spite of the whole US paleo-conservative spectre, along with "alt-right", always telling us it is Israel who forces the US to wage war in the ME...now, Israeli politics and experts, say the last attacks on Irak, Syria and Lebanon have been made only as electoral maneuver by Netanyahu and not only, but have stated that it is the US who wants Israel doing their dirty job in the ME...This, reported by Al Manar....not a Jewish source....

In his speech on August 25, the secretary general of Hezbollah made a double promise: the Resistance will now attack the drones of Israel and attack the Israeli troops not in Shebaa but in Lebanon itself. For those Israeli generals who experienced the 2006 war and the ups and downs of Syria, these are not just warnings. These soldiers even seem to have been sensitive to Nasraláh's warning that Netanyahu's attacks are intended to win votes for the next election and avoid imprisonment. "The current threat to Israel, which is even more serious than terrorism, missiles and Iran, is the collapse of the interior of Israel," warned former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak.

"By the way, Netanyahu's air operations against Syria, Lebanon and Iraq pursue internal political goals, which is very unfortunate", said Moshe Yaalon, a leader of the Blue and White opposition coalition and former Israeli Minister of Military Affairs, according to the agency Palestinian Maa.

“The threat of the collapse of the interior of Israel is even more serious than the missiles and Iran. The destruction of democracy and corruption within government apparatus will lead us to collapse”, said Ehud Barak in a video posted on his Twitter page.

"The attack on Syria was not a preventive action and will harm Israel," Barak told Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot, having apparently understood the warning issued by Nasralá.

Other Israeli experts share this opinion. Yaari Ehud, an Israeli journalist and expert in the Middle East said on Channel 12 of Israeli television that Netanyahu and his security cabinet "perpetrated these attacks on behalf of the US" and run the risk of "exposing Israel." “In fact, the missions that Americans refuse to do, they entrust them to Israel. We have been commissioned to do the dirty work at the risk of jeopardizing our security, ”he added before saying“, Tel Aviv will pay for it.”

Who is lying? The Israelis or the Americans? Or both?

See here Nasrallah more angry than long time ago...

While Israel claims having targetted an Iranian military base in Damascus, it seems that what it targetted were two milennials from Hezbollah, Hassan and Yasser, friends since childhood, who were also Engineering students in Iran...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 26 2019 20:53 utc | 134

Aaron Mate on Russiagate's continuance as an attack on Sanders and Sanders seeming unwillingness to deal effectively with it due to his initial gullibility:

"1/ I wish Bernie didn't peddle Russiagate, but he's in a different position than the rest of us. If he didn't go along w/ it, the media & political class would make life even more difficult for him than they already do. That's how cynical politics work."

"2/ I just hope Bernie sees that Russiagate emerged partly as a neoliberal defense against his appeal. Clinton-Obama wing needed an excuse for its loss & a defense against rising progressives. That's why MSNBC et al have used it to taint Bernie's campaign."

The ensuing thread accurately mirrors the discussion about Sanders here: Is he playing politics or is he really lame, etc. IMO, Sanders seems like an intelligent man with a good memory to match. He can grasp rather complex issues and boil them down to their essentials. But, for some reason he can't/won't do this with Russiagate. Is he actually being honest and thus displaying a great deal of gullibility, or is he being dishonest, actually understands what's happening, but refuses to speak out on the issue; or is it some other formula? None of those are trust enhancing and are akin to the description of Warren I noted above.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 21:24 utc | 135

@Sunny Runny Burger #132
Thank you for the enumeration.
However, I still see a great deal of confusion of politics vs economics. Economics is supposed to be about the study of how economies work, as well as the evaluation of ways by which economies can be changed.
This was why Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Karl Marx and others did what they did: to show why existing economic systems were inefficient and ineffective and to propose alternates.
That the economics philosophers saw their work selectively used to justify political practices for the benefit of specific groups should surprise no one. For that matter, the notion of "efficient markets" and "rational economic man" has been disproved at macro, micro and many experimental levels.
As for Marxism: you did not address the point I made. The Soviet Union was not created in the mold envisioned by Marx, not was China. Yet the truth is that Soviet Russia changed from a 3rd rate, laughable wannabe European minor power into a regional and world class power despite outright economic warfare against it from the start.
China in turn changed from a 3rd world nation to one which has a very respectable 2nd rate per capita economy and one of the largest in the world. Chinese "capitalism" isn't social-democrat either - it is firmly under the control of the bureaucrats.
As for the criticism of accounting vs economics - you've lost me there. You seem to imply that the numerical understanding of economic flows and value creation/destruction don't matter. How then can policy leaders understand what is going on and make decisions? Feel? Ouija boards?
Stating an economy is an organism doesn't help if said organism's function is a mystery. I have no objection to criticism of specific ways by which different economic schools model economies, but to say that any modeling is useless is a comment which has to be accompanied by detailed alternative methods. Economics *is not* a black box, but there are many who want to pretend so in order to create advantage for themselves as high priests of the mystery.

Posted by: C1ue | Aug 26 2019 21:48 utc | 136

karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 15:45 utc

Ah, yes! George Seldes , surely 1 of the greatest journalists.
I note here that Trotsky's "Communism Internationally" [cf Stalin's Communism only in 1 country"]was the result of his analysis and observation of the ripe situation in Germany [Soldaten and Arbeiter Rat appeared sudddenly].

Your link to Seldes' YouCan'tPrintThat :
"My colleagues started for Berlin; I got up at four the next
morning to make the 5 a.m. train for Luxembourg. As I
reached the station I saw part of the real German revolution.

Mingled with the monarchist flags and drapery over the
Cassel railroad station and triumphal arches were red stream-
ers and bunting placed by the revolutionary sailors and town
Soviet. The troops coming by train knew nothing of the
Kaiser's cowardice or the change to a republic. "

By 1918, the Communist International already began the German revolution in Kiel, among the Kriegsmarine [Navy]and had spread to where Seldes interviewed Hindenberg.

Side note: Some 40 years later, I surely took note of this history. I was an Arbeiter [worker] on the Kielerbuchte Schleuse [Kiel Canal locks] in 1960. I discovered Seldes' and Edgar Snow's writings in the 1970s and their 1st-person histories changed my views.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 26 2019 21:57 utc | 137

@ foolisholdman 124 . They needed an form of alcohol. Not so much glycerine. Fragment (wiki)> "[ardent zionist] Weizmann was also a biochemist who developed the acetone–butanol–ethanol fermentation process, which produces acetone through bacterial fermentation. His acetone production method was of great importance in the manufacture of cordite explosive propellants for the British war industry during World War I. He founded the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel and was instrumental in the establishment of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem."

The Brit converted distilleries to make the juice for bangers.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 26 2019 21:58 utc | 138

Iranian foreign minister tells Euronews about his discussion with Macron.

Sets the record straight...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 26 2019 22:05 utc | 139

Posted in the China thread by error, sorry.

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 26 2019 22:46 utc | 210

Debunking Israeli claims on that their drones were doing reconnaissance work or experimental flight and not intending an attack on the Dahiyeh suburb, Hezbollah: Both Drones Which Targeted Dahiyeh Were on Suicide Mission.

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 26 2019 22:49 utc | 140

@141

Iran for Multilateralism and Rule of Law, trusting themselves to abide by JCPOA, even if, as defined as failing, an invitation to Europeans to decide not be tempted by the US to remove themselves from their only future, and an appeal to the US to honour the responsibility of their veto sit on the UNSC where the lengthiest document was signed.

...

Good link Sasha.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Aug 26 2019 23:02 utc | 141

Jacques Pauwels on the Hitler-Stalin pact

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08/26/the-hitler-stalin-pact-of-august-23-1939-myth-and-reality/

Posted by: jayc | Aug 26 2019 23:12 utc | 142

Sasha @ 136:

I've always had the suspicion that Mossad always carries out the hit jobs that the Americans and the British won't do, if only because the more practice and experience Mossad has, the better it gets, while the Americans and British lose practice, knowledge and skill. Plus if the hitjob goes wrong or people get suspicious, Mossad (and by association, Israel) can always be blamed.

The idea that Israel controls Washington or at the very least directs its agenda - and Satanyahu of all people does like to crow about telling the US government what to do, or about insinuating himself or his government as a mediator in matters involving the Middle East and a non-ME nation - may be one deliberately played up by Deep State / The Powers That Be, to fool and confuse the public, at the same time that the opposite view (that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic) is being promoted.

The truth may very well be akin to two or three (or more) psychopaths co-operating and working together as long as their separate goals are being met - but when the situation changes and things that used to work in the past no longer do so, they'll fall out in a big way and start blaming one another, and one putting the other out to hang.

You may be familiar with the history of Bogdan Khmelnitski and the uprising he led in 1648 that led to the formation of a Cossack state in territory that is now part of the Ukraine. The uprising originally began when Cossack soldiers in the Polish army rebelled for a number of reasons (they wanted better pay, they resented being treated as hicks because of their Orthodox religion, among other things) and the rebellion spread to Orthodox peasants who had long resentments against their Polish Catholic overlords. Much of the Polish nobility fled and the anger of the Orthodox peasants was directed against Jewish stewards who managed their Polish employers' estates. Several of those people scarpered off as well so the peasants ended up walloping impoverished Jewish communities in towns and cities instead.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 26 2019 23:42 utc | 143

Material shortages such as Germany suffered from in the latter stages of 20th century euro war Pt1, can be worked around with substitute or ersatz materials. What could not be worked around back then was the human shortage.
Most sides were suffering from social resistance. For example Ludendorf had already commented on the new reality, that even in Prussia the home of the new Germany, communities were working together to hide their young men from the authorities. Not even the police could be relied upon to round up shirkers or deserters any longer as the hoi polloi had concluded that the price of this war was too high. This was repeated on the other side. Even the French who were defending their nation lets not forget, had enough. The French Army mutinied following the bloodbath of Verdun, rounding up and shooting the ringleaders had little effect, the French military was forced to make major changes following the mutiny shifting from their old position of military servitude to one where even the lowest combatant had some inalienable rights.
The brits & colonies were also encountering major resistance to conscription, which is why the en mass arrival of US forces in the second quarter of 1918 was godsend for them.
However that was unlikely to last as the idiot generals of US, France and UK sacrificed the lives of more than 300,000 US servicemen in a few short months. That was a phenomanal number about half what the english had lost in 3 1/2 years. It was plain to see that the fierce jingoism of the new world couldn't be sustained for long in the face of that scale of bloodshed.

Everyone was haunted by the same spectre - what happened in Russia October 1917. The most vocal socialists had been arbitrarily imprisoned everywhere - a short term solution which made long term failure more likely.

By the time Hindenburg & Prince Rupert sat down and nutted out a negotiated settlement they knew that their former enemies were keen to form an alliance to defeat the new foe, Socialism.
Of course that left the other stuff particularly the reasons why Germany went to war in the first place, on hold - to be continued as they say.

Once the fascists in Germany had defeated Socialism the story was continued.

Posted by: A User | Aug 27 2019 2:16 utc | 144

Gruff. I'm sorry. Not Guff.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 27 2019 2:38 utc | 145

karlof1 @133: Magniers latest

Mangier writes a follow-up to his post that I criticized @29. I think that his latest post also falls well short of his vaunted reputation.

Magnier's interpretation of events lauds Netanyahu's chess playing. He compares inconsequential attacks with past strategic actions (almost gleefully as he describes those past glories at some length).

He makes broad, unsupported statements like:

It should be recognized that Israel’s assessment of the reaction of Iran’s allies in Syria and Iraq is spot on.
And repeats that Israel is hitting "hundreds" of sites FOUR TIMES. Making it seem as though the Israeli campaign is much greater than it really is. AFAICT those attacks have actually been spread out over more than a year.

Yet it's all preliminary to this gem:

Netanyahu forced Hezbollah’s leader to threaten Israel ...
Forced? Really? AFAICT the red lines in Lebanon have been clear for a long time. Each side will defend theirs.

Which leaves me scratching my head as to why Magnier isn't using his platform to point out Netanyahu's irresponsible, self-serving actions. Netanyahu will NOT pay a price for his craven machinations - which could mean Israeli dead and injured and/or another war in Lebanon - when even "critics" like Magnier dress them up as heroic acts of patriotism.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 27 2019 3:03 utc | 146

In a message o snake @49 SRB said: I think it is important for people to understand that most (or maybe all) of it we do to ourselves as individuals thus my previous mentions of imprinting.

Yes it is taken advantage of but we can stop that or at least oppose it by identifying when we (not anyone else) imprint on the abstract (eg.: thoughts, ideologies, numbers, methodology/science, religion etc. or even experience in the form of memories) and thus make ourselves slaves.

by: Sunny Runny Burger @ 52 <<<< Thank you SRB .. for your thoughtful response..
regarding gating, propaganda, and programming (GPP) embedded in a controlled way in our society. <==I argue none of the three mind and behavior control domains(GPP) result in self effort or mental awareness, so they are not things we can do to ourselves; they are invasive and pervasive to our entire psychic control systems. Over time when often reinforced they result in changing and stabilizing the change to a selected set of responsive behaviors based on Icons or meta Icons? Yes, the result of each of the GPP mind and behavior control embeds into our mime and seeps into and infects our environments..
So how can an 8 year standing with his 4th grade class with arm over chest and saying
I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America: to make a choice? Do options exist to pledge allegiance to any of the million other flags or better to defer making such a pledge until of the pledger is of age after being vested with historical understanding <==show me how the programming can be avoided ?

How can the person who celebrates 4th of July (celebrating a document written and published in 1776, and short named today "the Declaration of Independence"), but which Document short name is a little deceptive Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America. <= not all the states agreed, (< Federalism better called USAism did not exist until 1789? Further there was a period between 1777 and 1789 (12 years) the national government of sorts called the Articles of Confederation (which John Hansen, not George Washington was 1st of 8 presidents of) which was definitely not a federalist centralized government, <=so the US constitution seems to lack the demands made in the Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America because that 1776 declaration reads in content to be the polar opposite of who should rule and how the rule should be administered. The pecking order between governing rights and human rights distinguishes . Humans have the inalienable right to self determination of how they wish to be ruled or even if they wish to be ruled and any government power must obey and respect all human rights before any rule the governing power declares becomes valid. (Declaration of Independence+AOC) states rights vs Federalism (the USA)..

In fact the USA quashed forever states rights, it denied voters both by eligibility and class of politician

How could a kid whose parents, friends, teacher, cub scout den, whatever possibly understand the ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence were so frightening to the wealthy landed classes, the rich and powerful trading corporations and the slave owners that the document organized nearly the all of the wealthy class, and they collectively sent representatives to Philadelphia do something about the States Rights and the right of governed to self determination.

There are many examples of this kind of brain twisting but the upshot of it all is messages in Icon form represent certain statics, the truth or the meaning in a given situation of the representation is rarely tested against underlying truth by the receiver, hence icons (represents whatever and cast a meaning to the people < just accept that its representation tracks to a truth.. It could just as easily track to a myth. a lie, a fabrication, and meaningless insult, whatever.

Isis and the Taliban might be examples of how an icon representation can be used to organize thousands into a false, religious or belief.. Belief strength far outweighs truth strength in the untrained to challenge and find out about human mind, it takes real academic discipline to hold to the truth; that is, until enough truths occur, that shatter(rarely happens) the representation power of the Icon. This phenomena of pecking order where representative (whether false or misleading) vs real unconditional evidenced truth is worthy of much study to develop a theory and to model it so that we can understand how a very few (say 500,000 people can control 8 billion around the globe. .).


We must remember a government is an armed, rule-making, structure. control the operations allowed within the structure means you control the governed.

Posted by: snake | Aug 27 2019 3:17 utc | 147

re A User | Aug 27 2019 2:16 utc
Points well taken.

But a correction: ..."the lives of more than 300,000 US servicemen" ...
Total US military WW1 deaths and civilian losses were abt 120,000 according Wikipedia

IMO, post ww1, communism/socialism were [are] vital targets for "the "Western" nations and any other rentier/Kingdom/Emperor/god- privileged specie. And that attitude developed from at least mid-1800s. Such is the hard-wired, natural result of very-vested interests.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 27 2019 3:21 utc | 148

chu teh @151, 135 & 139--

Thanks very much for your replies and contributions. Yes, the human shortage was very real indeed. Lenin won his revolution by promising to end Russian involvement, then later he published the Secret Treaties. The human shortage and the new rapid firing weapons pushed technicians to develop some form of mobile armored resistance weapon able to shield infantry leading to the rudimentary tractors of that age to be modified into what became tanks. The Yanks entered just as the new contraptions were entering service in greater numbers. Yes, the blockade had its impact, but as Hindenburg confessed, it was the GI Doughboys--and several million more were still training and awaiting shipping, and he knew that. He was an honorable man, the opposite of Hitler, and saved his nation from further damage. The real lesson learned was by the Banksters; they had the power and led the post-war repression, particularly in the USA, which sent a very large contingent to fight the Red Army in an undeclared war seldom mentioned, much like the undeclared war against France during Adams's presidency but for vastly different reasons.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 5:01 utc | 149

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 27 2019 3:21 utc | 151

Yep I flew the total casualty figures of 320,518 instead of total deaths which is what happens when operating from memory rather than google. The thing is though that since most of the deaths & casualties occurred between late march & the end of August 1918, the numbers are high, IMO too high to maintain for an extended period, even if their were sufficient resources to keep training replacements which I doubt there was since the US declared war on Germany in April 1917 and it is likely that training had begun before Wilson persuaded Congress to make the declaration, it had taken more than a year to get sufficient men trained to begin the push-back against Ludendorf's 1918 assault.

I don't reckon that the rate of replacement could have been equalised with the casualty rate even if US citizens had been amenable which they wouldn't have. As americans learned just like everyone else, that the youngfellas big adventure was no fun - just cannon fodder being fed into the machine of steel versus flesh which is no contest at all.

Russia, plus rumblings in Germany & France (Austria was a dead man walking and needed immediate intervention, altho it did enjoy the advantages of a long established police state right throughout the A-H empire) made continuation of the highly profitable euro war a risky business. Much smarter to call a halt so everyone gets to terrorise, imprison and murder their pinko elements before getting back to the original fight - which is exactly what happened.

The beginning of the end of socialism in developed nation states. Next time hopefully there will be a recognition that the lead up time between sufficient citizens being enlightened or 'woke' or WTF, and the actual demand for change, needs to be much shorter.

Posted by: A User | Aug 27 2019 5:12 utc | 150

I continue to read in this thread the terms capitalism and socialism used like they exist as one or the other which is ignorance or obfuscation. The world currently has mostly mixed economy nations.

Below is most of a comment I posted on the US Decoupling from China....thread challenging that either or notion

To the claim that the US is totally a capitalist country

The interstate highway system is socialism
The TVA, BPA and where I grew up, Tacoma Power, as I am sure there are others like it are socialism
Most if not all of the local sewage treatment systems, water systems, police, fire are socialism
The Social Security Insurance program is socialism
All local governments are socialism
The USPS is socialism

How about having a discussion about what a good mixed economy would look like in the West. I have read but don't have a link that says China has an economy that is 80% private and 20% public and yet some here seem to say it is socialism only.

I think banking/finance should be public
I think health care should be public
I think education should be public

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 27 2019 5:32 utc | 151

interesting development in Turkey. Is Turkey's attempt at regime change in Syria ending, at least in Idlib?

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/08/25/604475/Erdogan-turkish-generals-resignation-military-council

https://www.checkpointasia.net/end-game-looms-for-turkey-in-idlib-as-russia-reacts-to-its-planned-joint-operation-room-with-the-us/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

Climate change has been a hot topic this summer, and now the Amazon is on fire. Is the groundwork being prepared for the public to accept R2P MARK II with intervention for the sake of the planet (when in reality it is to provide profit to those who profited from R2P in Libya, Yugoslavia just to name two?)

https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/08/the-plan-of-climate-intervention-in-brazil-behind-bolsonaros-deforestration-project/

Thanks to Canthama twitter for pointing out the last to links.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 27 2019 5:45 utc | 152

Thank you Noirette #104 but see Corbett report for a detailed assessment of the storm of red herri gs very seriously debunked. I admit I was hugely dubious of the New York post image on the gurney as E was pushed through the door. That location is for real as fr as Corbett could tell. Sure someone immediately leaked the story from the lock up but I don't think that source is revealed.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 27 2019 6:48 utc | 153

Jen @146

It seems that your story of Bohdan Chmielnicki uprising in 1948 is more fantasy than history. Bohdan Chmielnicki's uprising against the Jews and Polish overlords was the result of the policy " vodka on credit" that caused the Ukrainian peasants to loose land. Alexander Solzhenitsyn in " 200 Years Together" writes about it. Unfortunately it is not translated into English for obcvious reasons.

Posted by: Friar Ockham | Aug 27 2019 7:30 utc | 154

Correction 1648 -sorry.

Posted by: Friar Ockham | Aug 27 2019 7:33 utc | 155

karlof1 You are running with your comments at such a pace through the threads that I am not able to follow with replies, but there was one on your question on how to proceed (you can take that as a very brief definition of how a "movement" might be formed (since the comment was cut off it was continued 203).

It is all the same with those posts on marxism (I eg wonder by what theory Keen will replace labour theory of value if he is upholding Marx' arguments in vol 3 which are based on that theory).
Aren't these topics too intricate for to be discussed in such a precipitate manner? Now I have to admit that the format of MoA's open threads does not allow for appropriate detail and elaborateness, hence my recurring request for naming a forum where such a discussion can take place.

Posted by: franziska | Aug 27 2019 8:11 utc | 156

Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2019 14:55 utc | 99

Hitler was a skilled propagandist and was used in this role. It makes more sense to look at who brought this moneyless street artist to power and who backed him. German authoritarian tradition meant that once you brought someone to power there was no way to control him except for revolution or putsch and the putsch failed.

Economic policy was Keynesian and the economic genius was Hjalmar Schacht.
Except that it was an economy geared to future war.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2019 8:41 utc | 157

Will Israel’s War Become America’s War?

Netanyahu’s widening of Israel’s war with Iran and its proxies into Lebanon and Iraq—and perhaps beyond—and his acknowledgement of that wider war raise questions for both nations.

Israel today has on and near her borders hostile populations in Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and Iraq. Tens of millions of Muslims see her as an enemy to be expelled from the region.

While there is a cold peace with Egypt and Jordan, the Saudis and Gulf Arabs are temporary allies as long as the foe is Iran.

Is this pervasive enmity sustainable?

As for America, have we ceded to Netanyahu something no nation should ever cede to another, even an ally: the right to take our country into a war of their choosing but not of ours?

Posted by: somebody | Aug 27 2019 8:53 utc | 158

@psychohistorian #154

I would add
Extraction of mineral resources.
The electric grid and major power plants.

When the energy companies were privatised in the Netherlands they shut down perfectly good and clean natural gas power plants, just to import cheaper nuclear generated power from France and dirty power from German brown coal strip mining. The mining process removes entire landscapes with villages and all from the face of the earth using monster excavators like Bagger 288.

@Tom #155

Climate change has been a hot topic this summer, and now the Amazon is on fire. Is the groundwork being prepared for the public to accept R2P MARK II with intervention for the sake of the planet (when in reality it is to provide profit to those who profited from R2P in Libya, Yugoslavia just to name two?)

Brasil has been regime-changed already and they got their puppet installed. He is selling out the rainforest as he has been told to do.
What else is there to gain by a military intervention?

Posted by: Joost | Aug 27 2019 10:28 utc | 159

@162

The linked article questions if, as a neoliberal project with the government behind, the deforestation of Amazon would not become the rationale to institute the unlawful precedent of intervention over sovereignty on "climate security" grounds.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Aug 27 2019 11:17 utc | 160

Psycho Historian @ 154:

I might suggest that people should have free access to the Internet and related technologies because, for better and for worse, they have become a necessary feature of daily life for nearly everyone apart from the most marginalised communities or for those most determined to get off the grid. Access to the Internet and its technologies should become a political right along with having the right to access shelter, food and education.

Also a country with a mixed economy would allow communities to issue their own money if the communities are self-sufficient and the local economies can sustain local currencies.

It may be possible that a currency backed by electricity can be used and the currency enabled to be stored in batteries for future use before an expiry date. It should not be possible for people to hoard the currency and to try to earn extra currency, ie interest, as a reward for hoarding the currency. In such a scenario, banks become unnecessary.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 27 2019 11:36 utc | 161

Sanders seems like an intelligent man with a good memory to match. He can grasp rather complex issues and boil them down to their essentials. But, for some reason he can't/won't do this with Russiagate. Is he actually being honest......

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 21:24 UTC

Well, d'oh!

Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don’t criticize other insiders.

https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2019/08/26/insiders-dont-criticize-other-insiders/

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 27 2019 12:20 utc | 162

Bohdan Chmielnicki's uprising against the Jews and Polish overlords was the result of the policy " vodka on credit" that caused the Ukrainian peasants to loose land.

Posted by: Friar Ockham | Aug 27 2019 7:30 utc

Yeah, yeah, when he started the uprising that was what he callee people to fight.

.....however all the years before he was a successful if second rate Polish noble, a "good savage". Like, dunno, Tsypras among EU aristocracy today?

It took him to get into a clash with more powerful and entrenched Polish noble, and to realise his own resources are not that big as he think they were, in real scale of things. And then being hopelessly "outnumbered" and realizing his only hope is finding strong allies, he all of sudden had that kinda commie epiphany: oh, poor peasants, oh oppressive jews, oh wodka! Just a coincidence of course.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 27 2019 12:29 utc | 163

Sanders made a significant move in the poker game he is playing with Warren and the oligarchy. He called for the nationalisation of the energy industry.

Among the points he made were :
1/"Reaching 100 percent renewable energy for electricity and transportation by no later than 2030, and complete decarbonization by 2050 at the latest. Key to this achievement will be expanding the existing federal Power Marketing Administrations to build new solar, wind, and geothermal energy sources..."

2/" Ending unemployment by creating 20 million good paying, union jobs in steel and auto manufacturing, construction, energy efficiency retrofitting, coding and server farms, and renewable power plants. The plan would also see the creation of millions of jobs in sustainable agriculture, engineering, a reimagined and expanded Civilian Conservation Corp, and preserving public lands.

3/"Direct public investment of $16.3 trillion toward these efforts, in line with the mobilization of resources made during the New Deal and WWII, but with an explicit choice to include black, indigenous and other minority communities who were systematically excluded in the past.

4/"A just transition that prioritizes fossil fuel workers, guaranteeing five years at current salary, housing assistance, job training, health care, pension support, and priority job placement for any displaced worker, as well as early retirement support for those who choose it or can no longer work."

In doing this he is defying the Establishment, from the Chambers of Commerce to the Academy, and throwing the socialist gauntlet down. It remains to be seen whether the American people will pick it up and change, perhaps save, the world. This is how political change begins, with the publication of a programme of policies and an objective. Sanders is ensuring that any "Green New Deal" will include ending unemployment and reversing the dismantling of the Labour movement.

All he needs now is about a million volunteers to campaign for these things and to ensure that, for the first time in many years, the electorate have a clear idea of what they are voting for and what is within their grasp.
Of course he also needs about 400 candidates for the House of Representatives, thousands to run in State races and a slate of Senators.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 27 2019 12:48 utc | 164

On a not completely different subject-that of the Empire's demise- there is a Tom Luongo article at Strategic Culture, which is pretty good.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/08/27/first-many-cauldrons-form-middle-east/
It ends
"So, the cauldron around Israel is forming. With the Saudis in deep trouble, Egypt refusing to go along with any of Trump’s plans – Arab NATO, the Kushner Deal of the Century – the game board has fundamentally shifted against them.

"Netanyahu bet the farm on Trump and Trump failed to deliver. They were countered at every turn by patient and scrupulous opponents who read the board better and didn’t respond muscularly to repeated provocations. They let events come to them and waited for the moment of over-commitment.

"Now the counter attack will commence, I suspect, with brutal precision"

Posted by: bevin | Aug 27 2019 13:03 utc | 165

Just another example of exceptionazi's chuzpa

https://www.wispolitics.com/2019/u-s-sen-johnson-comments-on-russia-visa-denial/

Instead of holding free and fair elections, respecting the rule of law, and integrating Russia’s economy with Western democracies, Putin has invaded Georgia, attempted to illegally annex Crimea, conducted war in eastern Ukraine where thousands have died, and supported a barbaric regime in Syria that has used chemical weapons on its own people in a war that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands,” said Sen. Johnson.

Russian officials .... denied me entrance to Russia. Regardless of this petty affront, I will continue to advocate a strong and resolute response to Russian aggression.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Indeed, where else can such a noble person fight Russian Aggression than in the grimmest den of Moscow!
Indeed, who do those Russian subhumans think they are denying their massa the privilege to enter the country he is not citizen of!

BTW, Russian MoFa denied he even asked for visa, to start with.

Indeed, how dared Russian aborigines fail to read massa's mind and rush to implement his unspoken wishes before he moved his tongue.

The cherr yfor that pie comes form AP though: An email to the Russian Embassy in Washington, D.C., inquiring about the denial bounced back as undeliverable Monday. No one immediately responded to another email sent to a different address for the embassy. Calls to the building couldn’t connect.

Wow, what an affront indeed!

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 27 2019 14:58 utc | 166

@Jen #163
The amount of electricity stored in batteries is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, a laughable amount - as in seconds of consumption at the national level and minutes to 2 hours at the local level. And this is with enormous capital and operational expense, to boot.
A currency based on electricity is a terrible idea. Among other reasons, currencies are intended to be both representation and storage of value. You've keyed on the representation part, the storage part is particularly weak, perhaps based on an overly optimistic understanding of battery storage capability and capacity today.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 27 2019 15:52 utc | 167

Here's an interesting pair of comments on the protests in Hong Kong - by frequent fliers:

I’m a visitor, but spending about 100 nights a year in Hong Kong in 2019. This includes some time during the initial protests in June, some time in July, and all of August until now. I think there’s a big misconception about how much this affects daily life. To be honest, apart from having a hotel shuttle bus that was stuck in traffic in mid June, I didn’t really experience any negative impacts of the protests. I walk around 10 miles a day, and it is very rare to see any protesters. One of my friends lives two blocks from the Chinese liaison office, and he’s had tear gassing on three days since mid June. I walked through a couple of riot police staging areas, but they’re very friendly and left me alone. I also saw some graffiti. But in day-to-day life, the impact of the protests is zero.

In fact, visiting Hong Kong is much more enjoyable than usual, because there are virtually no mainland tourists. You can visit TST Promenade, which normally has dozens of buses spewing out thousands of visitors, and right now, you’re practically the only person there. Equally important, hotels have crazy prices around 30 to 50% off the usual low season pricing. HK$1100 for Hyatt TST or HK$750 for the new Marriott Ocean Park. Insane deals!

Now, of course, if you for some reason get impacted by any airport closure and you have to be at an important event, that truly sucks. So perhaps don’t fly through Hong Kong if you’re on the way to interview for an amazing job offer. But for tourists, it’s an ideal time to visit.

As far as safety is concerned, if you’re from the US or Europe, unless you live in the most sheltered and safest environments, Hong Kong -even with the protests- will be much better than what you’re used to.

...

From a local’s perspective, the protests force an occasional work-at-home day, but so far everything has been business as usual. There seem to be less mainland tourists, so the crowded areas tend to be more manageable now. The violence and tear gas tend to start flying off at night, and there is usually a decent period of time before the raids come for tourists to escape. Avoid hanging around police stations as they are the main target of protesters, accusing the police for brutality and using excessive force.

I do think visiting one of these peaceful rallies/protests or reading through one of the many Lennon Walls around the city would be an interesting highlight for a tourist.

Do leave some time for your flight out though, in light of increased security measures for departures these days.


To be clear, both of these are likely not even Chinese or Hong Kong-nese.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 27 2019 15:55 utc | 168

@ Grieved | Aug 26 2019 5:13 utc | 66

Am late and others have responded, some probably quite well but those have not yet been encountered in my catch-up reading. Excellent question. There are recognised 6 (arguably 7) great economic giants, five British, one German. Not a sight of any (please forgive) American to be seen. The primary group observed and remarked from the very beginning of the Industrial Revolution in its manufacturing production development (Adam Smith) where three (arguably 4) others a later stage focused on the beginnings of industrial production. Ricardo wrote of tariffs and free trade advantages aiding disposal of excess production; John Stewart Mill (Also father James Mill) wrote on establishing value; Malthus population projections also figured in that early constellation of political economy philosophers. There were numerous others as well as a massive French au priori political economic input and influence that should not be overlooked. From my reading of Adam Smith (Cannon edition), whenever and wherever Smith's diminished knowledge pushed his reliance on moral philosophy to convey meaningful thought, there stands one of the following giants. Karl marx's observations and studies had the advantage of knowledge of all, John Stewart Mill, a contemporary, work was likely not unknown to Marx. The only giant unknown to Marx would be John Maynard Keynes whose observations and analysis produced economic theory of a dynamic economic process without, likely trying to avoid, using Marxian analysis, for by that time Marxian analysis had become political heresy, any connection would doom the best of efforts to oblivion (the same oblivion John Maynard Keynes' theories enjoy under today's 'economic' theology). Socialism, communism and most other isms have been left in tatters, battered by gales of political abusive manipulation. 'Liberal' has become a derogative adjective and cannot be used in any meaningful way, not even historically without the dirt contaminating whatever subject requiring that noun. Likewise no conversation can be had with any reference to social or capital without the boogymen of propaganda contaminating their visage. The Age of Marketing has metastasise the vocabulary into meaninglessness. The Curse of Babel has done its work well. Something other is needed, once the collapse is over, the survivors will have to asses their economic terrain and act accordingly; maybe well, possibly wisely but those are outside chances at best. Going into the maelstrom having the clearest undistorted understanding should stand in good stead in surviving.

Scholarship can easily happen outside academia but without a certificate to hang on the wall. All it takes is following one's interests, or one's heart. Real autodidacts are the ultimate heretics to orthodox academia and strike fear to status quo millwork performed by 'don't rock the boat' conventionalists. You likely have a far better grasp of a subject as complex as anything the species has produced. Follow the power of 'Why?' and seldom will you be led astray. Fortunately both Drs Hudson and Keen were able to develop apart from the thought collective that is neoliberalism/MBA Econ 101 congregation and have become leading lights by doing so. But care must be taken as well, although Hudson's and Keen's light shows the gapping crevasses and voids of the prevailing economic cannon, theirs canonly be an incomplete and partial answer to developing a vital economic edifice and can retard that development considerably. What is needed is the outside the customary economic box mindset and that will unlikely happen using the same fungible vocabulary as now being used. That in itself will be a tall order to do but will eventually happen out of pure need.


As they are now being used both capitalism and socialism are purely political terms having precious little to do with economics whatsoever. Both need to be purged from their current content's meaning. The cacophonous Babel of the neoliberal economic heresy must be silenced and relegated to history's cesspits, throw that dead baby out with its last bathwater, it should not produce another generation of mental zombies. Socialism should remain a political/social noun and little more. Capitalism must be knocked from its self-built pedestal. cleansed of the built up glittery dross its clothed itself with and returned to use as a noun indicating one of the four sources from which economic goods are produced (the others: Labour, land and entrepreneurship). Eventually economic theoretical edifice must be rebuilt with a purely economic core theorem or principle that is universal. Those things do not now exist and maybe never will; predicting future is notoriously fickle chance-taking.

Enjoyed encountering your comment. So much food for thought.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 27 2019 16:02 utc | 169

@Friar Ockham #156
Ukrainian peasants owned land in 1648?

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 27 2019 16:02 utc | 170

#162 Well there seems to be a hidden agenda behind the hysteria over the Amazon is burning. Off Guardian article points to an agenda of pushing for a #New Green Deal. Who knows where that might lead. RP2 could be given a new cause down the road. If Macron is really concerned about deforestation, perhaps he should do something about it at home first.

https://off-guardian.org/2019/08/23/amazon-burning-well-maybe-not-so-much/

Posted by: Tom | Aug 27 2019 16:31 utc | 171

All of the sudden, Epstein is a fool, allowing himself to be taken into custody to die. Surely he became too stupid to have retained and dispersed to trusted friends - digital videos of Clinton, Trump, Andrew, MBS, and dozens of Market Makers in flagrante.

Consider Ghislaine Maxwell's tech savvy friend in Massachusetts, her sisters whom developed Magellan and other software.

Epstein was surrounded by tech savvy persons whom had the ability to store and disburse video that would shake the world to its foundations. Clandestinely.

What would a 15 second clip of Clinton's bare ass thrusting a young teen do the Markets?

Or Trump's rump? Or Andrew or MBS?

Posted by: fastfreddy | Aug 27 2019 16:53 utc | 172

Human beings are never just their bodies: they have an existence outside it, which means natural resources being constantly transformed around it.
Posted by: vk | Aug 26 2019 18:51 utc | 127

Ha! Very nicely put vk!

Posted by: BM | Aug 27 2019 16:56 utc | 173

"
Bernie Sanders
‏Verified account @BernieSanders

Mitch McConnell: You need to explain to the people of Kentucky why you believe that we should do nothing to stop Russia from interfering with our elections. Stop obstructing legislation to protect our democracy.
1:49 PM - 25 Aug 2019 from Washington, DC "

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2019 17:03 utc | 174

@bevin 167

Elijah Magnier paints a different picture with Israel having the upper hand and being able to act with impunity.

https://ahtribune.com/world/north-africa-south-west-asia/3421-netanyahu-dares-to-hit-iran-backyard.html

I don't quite agree with his assessment and conclusions. He is grossly underestimating the axis of resistance and their will to push back. Also, Israelis are overestimating the American support, no matter what. Not if it is going to cost them American lives. Hitting a few ammo depots in isolation is one thing, but getting Americans to die for Israeli intransigence is another. Not much stomach for that here in US, no matter how much they push the special relationship.

Israelis are playing backgammon while Iran and axis playing chess, being a grandmaster at that. Check mate will be ugly.


Posted by: Uncle Jon | Aug 27 2019 17:05 utc | 175

Interesting James Corbett video.
https://www.corbettreport.com/deep-fakes-the-cias-mission-accomplished/

Are we being manipulated to eventually discard objective reality or at least the concept of it?

Posted by: O | Aug 27 2019 17:09 utc | 176

@177 Israel shouldn't take American support for granted. According to this article some Evangelicals are starting to have second thought...

“Why do we have pro-abortion, pro-LGBTQ values, and we do not have more freedom to protect our faith? We are persecuted now,” Yanko says about evangelical Christians like herself. “[Jews] say, ‘We’ve got America. We control America.’ That’s what I know.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-semitic-beliefs-spreading-among-192155642.html

Posted by: dh | Aug 27 2019 17:17 utc | 177

‘We’re living the end of Western hegemony’: Macron urges to stop pushing Russia away from Europe

You hears it grom the man himself, liberal extraordinaire Macron.

I'm waiting for some commenters here to accuse him of being a "pro-China propagandist" (like they accuse me and others here).

Posted by: vk | Aug 27 2019 17:35 utc | 178

"Russia in RSA
🇷🇺
‏Verified account @EmbassyofRussia
9h9 hours ago

FM #Lavrov: The Damascus International Fair opens in a few days. Instead of helping the US is threatening all participants of this exhibition with sanctions, seeing their very presence at this event as “support” for “the Syrian regime” as they say... "

Posted by: arby | Aug 27 2019 17:55 utc | 179

@Tom #162
From the Fort Russ article:

So, is Amazon deforestation a neoliberal project, headed by the delivery government itself or the satanic horde behind it, to accelerate a process of environmental catastrophe that, in the name of climate security, would justify a foreign intervention in Brazil? Are we facing a very serious case of international conspiracy to invade Brazil and gain control of Brazilian natural resources by foreign powers?

I think this is not about Brasil, a military intervention in Brasil does not make sense because it already is regime-changed. I think you are correct though, about Responsibility to Protect. Bolsonaro is just playing their game to whip up fear of deforestation. As soon as R2P MARK II is fact, he will flipflop and wildfires suddenly stop burning. Then the warmongers have added another tool to their military intervention toolbox, to be used against whichever country will be next.

Posted by: Joost | Aug 27 2019 18:28 utc | 180

Epstein details ctd. Can get boring..

Jack R, the photos of the hospital are real. I claimed to show, in previous posts, one of the personnel is truly working there and was there that day. (Limited it to one, as he appears in two of the important pix, not into chasing up employees, etc.) - Right *place*, right time roughly afaik, right illumination, etc.

We see, to summarize once again, a gurney being wheeled in with the ‘face’ of ‘Epstein’ (2 pix), the face is false, it isn’t Epstein, the rest is ‘real’ or can be considered to be so for now.

We are treated to two ‘body exits’:

A. A body bag loaded into a Black Suv / van, tagged Forensics, by ppl carrying the ‘corpse’ on a palet or some such.

B. Another with ‘screens up’, something into a white METT van. The video the still comes from (link) doesn’t add much, except that something (invisible) was put in the back of the van, via a gurney on wheels, the top part of which was returned to the hospital. This occurs at the same entrance as the IN pix.

The 2 vehicles left at the same time, they can be seen in the same vid (posted previous) and went off in the same direction. Imho there was an attempt at ‘decoy’ (to supposedly draw away journos - there were at least a dozen or more of them there when the two vehicles left) which was a move to confuse everyone.

I have never been there but google earth does a fair job in NY, the vid show a lot.

- Apologies for trawling thru all this ad nauseam…but starting from the bottom up is sometimes a good approach. One learns a lot. (Boston Bombing for ex. oh .. what a put-up job..) -

Walter, the body double thing is the most tempting, and it may very well have taken place.

At present (imho) Epstein, alive - dead - inbetween wishing for the sexy angels, was never in the hosp.

Prediction:

—> no further evidence / shoring up / of Epstein being in the hosp. will appear in any shape or form.

—> the official death. cert. will stand, be upheld, and the ‘pending’ will be worked out somehow. Injuries explained as special case, etc.

Jack, for the rest ok / not worth picking over.

uncle tungsten, idk about corbett report maybe above is some kind of response?

https://youtu.be/OTklBO8W5fM

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 27 2019 18:46 utc | 181

Lula Interview From Jail reported by Pepe Escobar who served as one of the three interviewers, which is why Pepe wasn't at G-7. Programming excerpt:

"The request for the interview was entered five months ago. Lula talked to journalists Mauro Lopes, Paulo Moreira Leite and myself, representing in all three cases the website Brasil247 and in my case Asia Times. A rough cut [Link at original], with only one camera focusing on Lula, was released this past Thursday, the day of the interview. A full, edited version, with English subtitles, targeting global public opinion, should be released by the end of the week."

Hard to know why Asia Times editors held this story back until today. It's a very important piece of news. And according to Pepe, there's more to come:

"Considering the wealth of information in Lula’s interview, not to mention his storytelling of how the corridors of power really work, Asia Times will publish further specific stories featuring Pope Francis, the BRICS, Bush and Obama, Iran, the UN and global governance. This was Lula’s first interview in jail where he has felt relaxed enough to relish telling stories about international relations."

Apparently, Lula will be leaving jail soon:

"He said that as soon as he leaves, he’ll hit the streets – and cash in frequent flyer miles: he wants to embark alongside Pope Francis on a global campaign against hunger, neoliberal destruction and the rise of neo-fascism."

Wonder if TrumpCo will deny Lula and Pope visas for their visit to the heart of the Outlaw US Empire? Anyone care to place a wager?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 18:47 utc | 182

franziska | Aug 27 2019 8:11 utc | 158--

Yes, it would be nice to have a different forum for our discussions. My primary purpose here is to provide information and topics ignored by BigLie Media, which is similar to our host's mission. Being topicless, open threads allow for longer discussions, but participants aren't always prepared or able to participate on a given day, and only b knows when such a thread will be generated. What usually occurs is the topic gets discussed over multiple open threads covering a month or more. And as you've seen, anarchy reigns as there's no coordinator/agenda setter, and barflies seem to like it that way--as with any bar, they can come and go as they please and choose to participate or not.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 19:13 utc | 183

Thanks for that last at 18:47 UTC, karlof1! Lula is a charismatic figure and we need such! I haven't visited your link but I do think it is a positive thing to have him alongside Pope Francis, reported by Pepe - my goodness, I'm not Catholic but that is a powerful team!

If Trump has any sense at all, he will welcome them.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2019 19:26 utc | 184

@ Noirette | Aug 27 2019 18:46 utc | 183

FWIW, I appreciate your Epstein details, even if they can be boring and/or perplexing. The government/mass-media hive mind slammed down the "case closed" guillotine in a hurry, didn't it?

It doesn't quite rise to the Orwellian "1984" level of rewriting history, because there are still numerous threads of Epstein-related scandals that are considered newsworthy. I've long since grown weary of endless displays of Epstein's Scott Bakula-esque lined, seamed face grimly staring out from my laptop screen.

But the consent-manufacturing Mighty Wurlitzer won't stand for further contemplation of the "crime scene" of Einstein's alleged death in captivity, even though it doesn't take a "conspiracy theorist" to notice numerous irregularities that stink to high heaven in the reported suicide.

The subliminal lyrics to the Wurlitzer's tune croon something like, "an egregiously evil and loathsome man has ended his own life; let us be grateful that he spared us further horror and outrage, and move on to something more elevating." It couldn't be more obvious that the overclass is inculcating the attitude that picking over the circumstances of Epstein's "suicide" is so yesterday.

Posted by: Ort | Aug 27 2019 19:26 utc | 185

More on Sanders and Russiagate as he's certainly a hypocrite to say the following without also slamming the gross propaganda narrative that's Russiagate:

"We cannot sit by and allow corporations, billionaires, and demagogues to destroy the Fourth Estate, nor can we allow them to replace serious reporting with infotainment and propaganda."

And where was this outburst in 2016? Yes, as bevin reports, I see he's made yet another sensible proposal, but Trump's MAGA was hypothetically sensible too. Then there's Sanders woeful stance on Imperial Policy. He reminds me of the song about the walking contradiction, although on the nuts & bolts of this issue as he's framed it, he's mostly correct. Perhaps if he were 100% honest and said: I'm going to put an end to the CIA's Project Mockingbird.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 19:33 utc | 186

Has Trump railed against the CIA? He's backed away even from the Deep State themes, preferring the Fake Lying Media theme in its stead.

Could it be that his Draining the Swamp schtick had become 51 percent unbelievable? After all, he has only contributed to the swamp by adding more swamp creatures.

Who even knows or cares what Op Mockingbird is? I'd say the numbers of USA Americans who have a clue are depressingly low.

Anyway, the point I was getting at is that JFK was the last President to rail against the CIA and Mockingbird, Secret Societies, Subversive Government.

It's not a safe approach.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Aug 27 2019 19:48 utc | 187

Thanks for holding Bernie's feet to the fire, karlof1 - the electorate has to have learned something from 2016 and all his excellent sounding programs don't make up for the fact that he did not cast off from clearly dishonest electioneering by the party elites when it counted. Had he done so I think that many would have gone to support him and things might be very different today. My own pivot point happened when Jill Stein offered to have him join her and he totally ignored her. It will take a lot for me to support him now, and some of that has to include an honest appraisal of what happened in 2016.

On the Lula article, here is an important excerpt I will add, and thank you again!

"...On August 10, a group of 70 wealthy farmers, all Bolsonaro voters, organized on WhatsApp a "Day of Fire" in the Altamira region in the vast state of Para.
This happens to be the region with the highest number of wildfires in Brazill...
...Lula was evidently well informed: “You just need to look at the satellite photos, know who’s the landowner and go after him to know who’s burning. If the landowner did not complain, did not go to the police to tell them his land was burning, that’s because he’s responsible.”..."

Posted by: juliania | Aug 27 2019 19:50 utc | 188

If true, big time trouble:

"Iraqi Intelligence: 'The Israeli drones that have been attacking our nation in the past few weeks are operating out of a base in YPG/SDF held areas in Syria and these operations are co-financed by Saudi Arabia. Israeli military personnel are on the ground in Northern Syria.'"

Is it a feint to get SAA to cease Idlib Dawn and drive the Zionists out, or are Zionist drones really being flown from there? Regardless, it's time to end the Kurd's games, drive out the Outlaw US Empire and all other illegal forces and reclaim Syrian sovereignty. Iraq must do the same.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 20:10 utc | 189

karlof1 says:

Yes, as bevin reports, I see he's made yet another sensible proposal, but Trump's MAGA was hypothetically sensible too

Dmitry Orlov has proffered something sensible as well, or at least pragmatic….call it Stalinism 2.0...god knows the last few administrations have laid the groundwork.

i think this could work especially well should that benevolent dictator i envision crop up.

Posted by: john | Aug 27 2019 20:14 utc | 190

fastfreddy @189--

Let me rephrase my point. What good does it do us or Sanders for him to denounce BigLie Media while continuing to give credence/credibility to the #1 BigLie its made continually over the past THREE years?! That's like calling out the Fox for guarding the Henhouse while slipping it the key to the door and the alarm code!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 20:24 utc | 191

@ Posted by: O | Aug 27 2019 17:09 utc | 178

That is a very interesting point: are there absolutes, is there right and wrong, is there normal?

I was trying to understand the term "gas lighting" which I realise now is not very complex concept except it is a rather indirect way of describing a fairly basic and possibly common-place behavior. It irks me greatly that supposedly intellectually open people resort to using labels to identify subjects where the label is uneccesarily novel and alludes to some popular reference - the point of which is simply to appear somehow sophisticated, hip, intellectual. And I am seeing this term used frequently of late.

But what then really fried my shorts is a mainstream newspaper, referring to Trump as "Gas Lighting" the public - he's a politician for goodness sake, he just lies when he feels he can or needs to as they pretty much all do. But still further, that the media could refer to anybody as "Gas Lighting" - that is the reason that the media exists and they have made an art of it.

We used to call it jargon - the uneccesary use of coloquial terms.
"Gas Lighting" would be misleading someone in a manner that makes them think they inept or confused.

There is no such thing as capitalism or socialism except as concepts.
Because they cannot be practiced in reality and no sane person would attempt it.
These term s are used to make reference to concepts which are generally not well define and so can mean anything and cause the reader to feel the he/she is inept and confused.
Similarly: "liberal" and "liberalism".

Posted by: jared | Aug 27 2019 20:24 utc | 192

@ karlof1 | Aug 26 2019 19:34 utc | 129

And as Hudson endlessly intones, the term free markets didn't mean free from regulation; rather, it means free from entities who covet controlling markets.

Maybe?

And as Hudson endlessly intones, the term free markets didn't mean free from regulation; rather, it means free from entities who covet controlling markets have responsibility to control markets.

Fixed - No Charge

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 27 2019 20:51 utc | 193

Formerly T-Bear @171--

Relative to the "Land" aspect of econometrics, there are several good works I've read dealing with what's called Ecological Economics; some exclusively with the dilemma like Kirkpatrick Sale's Human Scale and William Catton's Overshoot; and some trying to work it through like Herman Daly's Ecological Economics. For those wanting to directly engage, there's Five Acres and Independence and Joel Salatin's Folks, This Ain’t Normal or his other works about regenerative farming. (I'm reminded of externalities as I write this since all agro-chemicals are considered positive additions to the GDP instead of damaging externalities whose overall costs ought to be subtracted from GDP. Another example of similar idiocy is that the court judgment against Johnson & Johnson will be considered an addition to GDP as were all the costs of treating their victims.) Ecological Economics tries to determine a genuine GNP that considers all externalities and other positives and negatives so we actually know where we stand and then measure from there.

Then there're those advocating a No Growth Economy. IMO, such stasis for humans is impossible unless the term is qualifiedly defined as no growth is these areas while there's growth is these other areas--wisdom being one of the most important products I advise having exponential growth.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 21:09 utc | 194

"free markets didn't mean free from regulation; rather, it means free from entities which have responsibility to control markets."

That sounds like a nightmare, the one from which we are yet to awaken. We have been 'freed' from the regulation of markets by the forces which emerged, dominant, from those barely/weakly regulated markets.

The dream, of a free market is Hobbesian.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 27 2019 21:15 utc | 195

Zarif tweets from China in Chinese with machine translation:

"I have had extensive and constructive dialogue with my good friend, State Councilor and Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, and we share a common vision in bilateral, regional and international affairs. I presented a 25-year road map to consolidate the comprehensive strategic partnership between Iran and China and make a positive contribution to the Belt and Road Initiative."

It's been amusing to read the reports of his G-7 exploits and the crazy spin applied; Trump trying to take credit for inviting him to France was quite the howler! I'd be most interested to read Zarif's Road Map and China's response!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 27 2019 21:19 utc | 196

john@192
To put 'Stalinism' in perspective it was continually under attack on all fronts.
Its major successes were in the 30s when the Soviet Union, having the luck to have been isolated from the capitalist world (the object was to punish it) it was able to avoid the crisis which had overtaken the rest of the world. Socialism in one country did work- it helped that the country in question was the biggest in the world- the Soviet Union began to rot when it re-integrated itself, albeit marginally, into the system.
As to the benevolent dictatorship idea: again, it helps to put the far from benevolent Stalin into perspective, he was surfing on the tremendous, unprecedented momentum created by 1917 and the subsequent progress of the Soviet Union. Part of that momentum was the amazing self sacrifice of the Soviet people, exemplified graphically in the Red Army's victories over not only enemies but the corruption within the system (a corruption akin to that in Haig's army or Foch's.)

Posted by: bevin | Aug 27 2019 21:27 utc | 197

Ukrainian peasants owned land in 1648?
c1ue@172
Yes. They did not always own themselves but they regarded the land as their own. It was an arrangement that suited the nobility, who creamed off what they could get.
The peasants, who did the work, were much more valuable than the land-of which there was plenty, going free, or occupied by nomads. Hence the cossacks.
The concept of freehold land ownership is not only modern but nebulous as the doctrine of eminent domain suggests.

Posted by: bevin | Aug 27 2019 21:35 utc | 198

Netanyahu comes out now to tell Nasrallah and Soleimani to calm down....

That moment when the psychopath takes your eye without anesthesia and tells you not to shout....


Posted by: Sasha | Aug 27 2019 21:40 utc | 199

bernie sanders;You need to explain to the Americans why you believe that we should do nothing stop israel from interfering with our elections?duh.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 27 2019 21:42 utc | 200

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