Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 11, 2019

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2019-47

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Related: Inside Kashmir, Cut Off From the World: ‘A Living Hell’ of Anger and Fear - NYT

Imran Khan @ImranKhanPTI - 9:58 AM · Aug 11, 2019

The curfew, crackdown & impending genocide of Kashmiris in IOK is unfolding exactly acc to RSS ideology inspired by Nazi ideology. Attempt is to change demography of Kashmir through ethnic cleansing. Question is: Will the world watch & appease as they did Hitler at Munich?
I am afraid this RSS ideology of Hindu Supremacy, like the Nazi Aryan Supremacy, will not stop in IOK; instead it will lead to suppression of Muslims in India & eventually lead to targeting of Pakistan. The Hindu Supremacists version of Hitler's Lebensraum.

Related:
Kim Jong Un fired off another new missiles type: North Korea tests 'short-range ballistic missiles' - BBC

Related:

Daily Mail: >Jeffrey Epstein told prison guards and fellow inmates that he believed someone had tried to kill him in the weeks before his death, a source has revealed to DailyMail.com

The insider, who had seen the disgraced financier on several occasions during his incarceration at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, also claims that the normally reserved Epstein seemed to be in good spirits.<

Whitney Webb wrote a well researched series on Epstein for MintPress News:

NY Post: >Kasman said he heard US Attorney General William Barr personally made a hush-hush trip to the [Metropolitan Correctional Center] two weeks ago, about the time Epstein was found in his cell with bruises around his neck.

“When does that happen?” he asked. “The attorney general never visits jails. Something’s not right there.”<

---
Other issues:

Yemen:

The Saudi plan to occupy and steal their southern neighbors oil is not going well. The UAE pulled most of its troops out from Yemen after training ten thousands of southern separatists. The mercenaries from Sudan also left. Recently the separatists attacked the Saudi supported 'government' troops in Aden and kicked them out of the presidential palace. The Saudis then bombed the separatist. Meanwhile the Houthi are laughing their assess off as their enemies fight each other. They continue to attack Saudi airports by drones.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 11, 2019 at 17:45 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

@vk #96
Argentina has been screwed up for decades. If you look at its history - it was the first global trade liberalization that made Argentina wealthy, nearly 100 years ago.
The leadership of Argentina took that wealth and created the Argentina we see today. Dr. Michael Hudson has talked at length on how the 1% in South America use debt and IMF loans to both grow and exit their capital from their own countries (and countrymen).

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 12 2019 15:30 utc | 101

@willie #94
What height was the horse flying at? And what type of AA brought it down?
:)

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 12 2019 15:31 utc | 102

On August 8th, Venezuela, Iran, China, and Russia, held joint military exercises at Kaliningrad, Russia, on the Baltic coast. The military exercises had been organized by Russia, perhaps in order to indicate to Washington that a U.S. invasion against any of these four would be militarily responded to by all of the four.

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 12 2019 15:35 utc | 103

Sorry for the bad link, try this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49285975

Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 12 2019 15:36 utc | 104

Hudson on Trump Raising Tariffs: "Charge Us More."

In this short (11 min) video interview, it's noted at the outset that Hudson is also a professor at Beijing University, and that he's just returned from China after meeting with China's Academy of Social Sciences. I'm highlighting the intro information because that makes clear the close connection Hudson has with China's political-economic planning structure. We know he's taught and given talks, but I've never before heard this introduction highlighting his ties to China's governing circles. Toward the interview's end, Hudson speaks with great authority regarding what China will do in response to the Trade War and by extension what Eurasia will do. The interview's just over a week old, so it doesn't contain the Chinese response to stop all imports of Outlaw US Empire agricultural products, which Hudson may or may not have known was going to occur--IMO, he wasn't aware/privy to China's specific plans.

I found it amazingly funny at the utter ignorance of the audiences sitting behind Trump at the rallies where he makes his announcements--they have absolutely no clue that he's lying to them directly and further gouging their pocketbooks. The one point where he speaks the truth is when he states that China's pouring lots of money into its economy--well, duh!, it's Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, so that's exactly what China does all the time! As Hudson points-out, that's precisely what the Outlaw US Empire would have to do IF it were to try and reindustrialize so it can attempt to compete. But as he also notes, the bi-partisan plan is to continue privatization along with the austerity for the 99% that goes with it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 16:15 utc | 105

I'm starting to think that Epstein's death is very, very suspicious. If the coroner knows the time of death, and he most certainly ascertains that first thing then they can check the hallway cameras to verify who, if anyone, accessed his cell in the minutes and hours prior his death and for what reason. The video does not take days and weeks to procure. So why has this info not been released?

Posted by: Circe | Aug 12 2019 16:57 utc | 106

#105

The current memes these days amongst Chinese tourists and students when they are in the West is just how unexpectedly backward, unsafe and inefficient the West is, even when pitted against the average Chinese countryside.

Posted by: JW | Aug 12 2019 16:59 utc | 107

@karlof1 #105
Hudson has never concealed that he does consulting work for many governments, as well as individuals.
Super Imperialism was translated into Chinese almost immediately.
As for tariffs: I'm sorry, but focusing on product prices is exactly what neo-liberal economists do. While tariffs *might* increase the prices of products from China (China's lowered exchange rate offsets the tariffs to a significant extent), it is the lack of jobs which really hurt Americans. As Dr. Michael Hudson has said repeatedly: when America was industrializing, it put heavy tariffs on classes of products in which the U.S. government wanted to grow its own manufacturing capacity for - and from these, American jobs.
Farmers in the US and EU, doctors, lawyers, pharm companies and many more verticals are heavily protected by walls of patents, accreditations and other import restrictions - it is the blue collar working class which is fully (and hypocritically) exposed to foreign competition.
And while I agree that most of the audience in Trump rallies can't articulate the above, they do know they've been fucked. And they want someone, anyone, and anyhow, to change that. Agreed that Trump may not be that president, but he's at least paying lip service to their pain - as opposed to the liberals who keep talking about training and competitiveness and other meritocratic bullshit.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 12 2019 17:06 utc | 108

More Boeing in the news:
Boeing left 787 source code on an open server - and IOActive says there are vulnerabilities.
Customers not very happy with 787 product coming out of South Carolina.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 12 2019 17:09 utc | 109

@ 99---i don't think the first study you cite says what you claim it does. kathryn adamson, at any rate, says the world is clearly warming.
https://blogs.egu.eu/divisions/cl/author/adamson/

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 12 2019 17:19 utc | 110

Another Hudson audio only program that is a must listen. What's discussed you won't read/hear/see in most media. Just the insider info about what Morgan Stanley told its Sovereign Wealth Fund holders is worth the listen as it's 100% related to the direction global finance is heading as de-dollarization accelerates. The background context to the verbal spat between Germany and the Outlaw US Empire's ambassador that occurred late last week I linked to and what that means is also discussed. For the 11 or so minutes Hudson gets to talk in answer to the questions posed, the information is outstanding. Again, the program was recorded on July 30th. Sorry for the delay in commenting about it, but finding time to listen/watch is too often at a premium for me, and today I was able to do some catching-up.

JW @107--

Yes, just as Westerners remarked about the "foreignness" of the East, we now hear similar things said by Chinese about the West. Curious isn't it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 17:19 utc | 111


1# I don't believe Pat Lang is trying to hide Trump's implication in the Epstein affair, but believes Trump has nothing to hide in the Epstein affair. by: Hassaan @ 28 <=maybe read ==>
more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA. then defend Trump in light of those several hundred documented pages explaining the MOB connections and persons in government

2. aye, myself & me @ 33 < please read more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA..

I don't believe Pat Lang is trying to hide Trump's implication in the Epstein affair, but believes Trump has nothing to hide in the Epstein affair. by: Hassaan @ 28 <=h/u read more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA. or if U/h read it in full please defend Trump in light of that several hundred pages of documentation explaining the MOB connections and government

3. for Ben @ 36=> Not sure the Conditions could be much worse.. the peons have discovered their gov t/b organized crime masquerading as legitimate. ben @ 36<= pls read more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA.

4. Movements pressure all Parties by educating the public. by: Jackrabbit 45 more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA. the reference suggest factual basis that might pressure public education, ground swells happen (much like a pantry raid at college).

5. The elite need to make their move while they still have control of the media/propaganda machine that continues to be very effective....but slipping by: psychohistorian @ 58 < check the link..
more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA. <=I think the elite are taking action, its in the form of privately owned mind control technology (called 5G) which is a a weapon disguised as a communications technology, developed to control the minds and depress the physical wellness of those in angry crowds.read the link =>

6. And now you can add multi-millionaire Jeffrey Epstein to the list...
by: Taffyboy @ 85 <= read=> more to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA.

7. bevin @ 41 readmore to Epstein than Epstein try MEGA... I disagree when it comes to justice and democracy Americans are the most coherent group in the world, they will eventually rise, I predict, to destroy the corruption that has destroyed their democratic expectation. Unlike Europeans. Americans are prepared to defend their freedoms, Americans are always armed, .. but Americans will probably not rise until they fully comprehend the situation.

Posted by: snake | Aug 12 2019 17:33 utc | 112

Circe - What if no one entered his cell at all?

Would video of that convince everyone he was a suicide? What if someone entered and left the cell? Would video of that convince everyone he was murdered?

Or would people just go on then to believe the video was faked?

We live in a post-truth world. Nothing can ever be proven or disproven again. Science and rational thinking have failed as the human imagination has evolved (or devolved) beyond the capacity for logic to be universally accepted.

That is also why the hopes some have for this episode to lead to some grand awakening of the populace to take on the PTB is wishful thinking in the extreme. We've already drugged ourselves into a stupor on both sides of every issue. Some will believe, some will disbelieve no matter what, based on our biases. As a society we remain conflicted with each other and often ourselves.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 12 2019 17:50 utc | 113

@Taffyboy 85

Sobering list. Thanks for posting.

I bet similar lists exist for JFK, RFK, MLK, 9/11...........and now Epstein, with the clock running right now. Start counting.

Despicable.

Posted by: Uncle Jon | Aug 12 2019 18:22 utc | 114

Grieved @69--

Finally got around to reading Crooke's latest. Yes, the EU's surely in a fix; but IMO, he's correct about the ultimate source of the problem and the inability of solving it without a total reformation. However, I would argue that reforming the EU would be a massive error. IMO, it makes far greater sense to learn from the mistakes and negotiate with Russia and China to consummate Putin's proposal for an EAEU sans the strangulating aspects of an EAEU Central Bank and currency--the Euro and EUCB being two of the EU's mistakes. Such a creation would also see the demise of NATO and the freeing of monies for war to be used on debt relief, infrastructure, and building public/human capital. Russo- and Sinophobia would immediately cease. The issues of South Asia would become easier to handle. And to be included in the club Occupied Palestine would need to become Palestine--one state--thus defusing the last colonial imposition impeding Eurasian integration/unity. Yes, the five anglophone entities would be left out in the cold, although I can't see The City allowing its politicos to blow its opportunity to cash in by having a piece of the action (but then the British are unpredictable) while Scotland, Ireland and Wales prosper. Africa would see its future lies in joining with Eurasia.

I don't think either Merkel or Macron have the vision required to even imagine the above possibility, although I'd be happy to get surprised. But would such a suggestion need to come from either France or Germany; why not Central and Southern Europe as such a change would really benefit those nations?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:23 utc | 115

@113

The donkey gods have found us wanting.

Hang your head in shame and bend over.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 12 2019 18:23 utc | 116

@116

Forgot the /sarc tag

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 12 2019 18:25 utc | 117

c1ue @99 re: Some actual factual studies on "global warming":

Thank you!

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 12 2019 18:32 utc | 118

thanking the poster for studies that didn't say what was claimed? why thanks?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 12 2019 18:35 utc | 119

@119
Facts matter. There are far to many fact-less claims.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 12 2019 18:38 utc | 120

c1ue @108--

"Agreed that Trump may not be that president, but he's at least paying lip service to their pain - as opposed to the liberals who keep talking about training and competitiveness and other meritocratic bullshit."

"Paying lip service to their pain" while lying in their faces. Watch Trump's behavior when he lies; it's as if he awaits the arrow to pierce his back.

Yes, I do agree somewhat to your accusations against D-Party neoliberals. But what else is to be done if training and doing what's required to regain competitiveness isn't the ticket? What if Hudson's correct and Trump's trying to demilitarize and greatly reduce the Outlaw US Empire using smoke and mirrors that blinds the Current Oligarchy and its enforcers? (Yes people! Listen to those interviews as nobody else is even suggesting what Hudson's stating as fact!) That begs the question: What level of credibility does the Current Oligarchy rate Hudson? The Morgan-Stanley advice is a serious source that backs Hudson's prognosis.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:52 utc | 121

@ karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:23 utc | 115

Don't forget the generation that formed the Treaty of Rome and conducted subsequent negotiations were mostly replaced by the 1980's with a generation not sharing common experiences that the war generation had. Also, by the 1980's the economic theories being taught had substantially changed from the economic understandings and experiences of the war generation.
The war generation had each sovereign country having sufficient and adequate laws governing banking and finance that prevented most aberrations within that country. Each country had developed from differing circumstances and had drafted their laws to those specific circumstances. Finding a common legal denominator proved to be, as they say 'a bridge too far' but as long as each country's laws were effective, no problems presented.
The subsequent generation under the neoliberal economic theories found the central EU government devoid of economic governance or regulatory structures; an open field easily commanded by removing the abilities of each country to provide such governance for their state. Centralisation of economic power became the problem and the cause of problems that remain unaddressed and unless address is done, the economic house of cards will not last for long.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 12 2019 18:59 utc | 122

@Posted by: snake | Aug 12 2019 17:33 utc | 112

The elites are already moving to shut down the interchange of information amd manipulate people´s pereceptions and opinions, especially related to elections, they just are not willing to allow us to have our own opinion. As tendencies in the net are not favourable to Trump vote, he prepares an executive order to curtail all this....

https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/323817-trump-orden-ejecutiva-redes-sociales

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 18:59 utc | 123

@Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:52 utc | 121

What if Hudson's correct and Trump's trying to demilitarize and greatly reduce the Outlaw US Empire using smoke and mirrors that blinds the Current Oligarchy and its enforcers?

That´s impossible to believe, and even consider, if you take the time to read all the story about the Mega Group and its obvious connections with Trump

Are you campaigninig for The Donald after all what we have seen so far?
I have quite respect of you as commenter here and had the, now I am aware, wrong impression that you were somehow, although never so clear, a leftist.....

I was not here during the 2016 election campaign, but I must say I lost the respect for so many people then, one would say that a veil felt from my eyes with respect to some allegedly "alt-media" bloggers and contributors....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 19:08 utc | 124

Sasha, I agree.
Trump may be doing the things that will demilitarize and reduce the hegemon but that is only accidental and certainly not what he has in mind.

Posted by: arby | Aug 12 2019 19:20 utc | 125

@Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:52 utc | 121

What if Hudson's correct and Trump's trying to demilitarize and greatly reduce the Outlaw US Empire..

Facts do not correlate with that illusory hopes you, and for what it seems Hudson too, still hold..

Nearly 100 US military arrive in Turkey to create security zone in Syria

We all know what is to be expected from a "security zone" secured by both, Turkey and USA, as a sample, Idlib, Al Tanf, Raqqa, and so on...We happen to have the brains to understand, at this heights, the same than for "humanitarian intervention", just the opposite...

Then all the current and agressive intends of "colour revolutions" in the making in HK and Russia does not match with "greatly reduce Outlaw Empire" at all, neither do the former intend of coup d état in Venezuela, looting of all Venezuelan assets, and current blockade for starvation and deprivation of everything, included medical essentials, plus the same in Yemen, and continuing without stop for decades now in Cuba...

Why do you, man, along with quite a bunch of others, after all what we have seen and read, try to again whitewash Trump?
Are you, by any casuality, also one of those beneficiaires, as it is Pat Lang, of the super tax cut The Donald has awarded to the highest incomes?( no need to be a billionaire, like all Trump´s friends, it´s enough with having done about six ciphers/year while in the US military or the MIC...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 19:27 utc | 126

Lessons for the left from Argentina....

Teachings of the victory of the left in Argentina: 1. Focus on the social - employment, price of electricity and gas, deterioration of education, health and pensions; 2. Unity of the entire progressive field; 3. Create community by listening more to people than to marketing. 4. Do not lie.

https://twitter.com/MonederoJC/status/1160937320406822913


@mauriciomacri, the great friend of @marianorajoy, defeated by @alferdez and @CFKArgentina. Argentina has woken up. Four million more poor people are the inheritance that leaves the right without soul. This image of yesterday in Buenos Aires will soon begin to disappear. The miracle? Unit.

https://twitter.com/MonederoJC/status/1160897258424012802

Macri, the "ally" of Trump in the South....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 19:53 utc | 127

What if Hudson's correct and Trump's trying to demilitarize and greatly reduce the Outlaw US Empire using smoke and mirrors that blinds the Current Oligarchy and its enforcers?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:52 utc | 121

Nothing could be further than the truth. Trump is a military puppet, as well as a zionist one. He is trying everything possible to stop multipolarity. He follows a strategy for saving US power devised by the US military/intelligence community. These are not his personal actions, most of these, at least.

Military budgets benefited greatly from Trump, when almost everything is getting cut. No demilitarization. NATO incursions near russian air space are at an all time high for the last 30 years. Second Fleet was reactivated to contain Russia. INF is gone, US is deploying mid range missiles in the Pacific, Bolton says START will be gone too. The US is pushing for space militarisation.

I see Trump as very aggressive president, foreign policy wise.

Do you know why the steel and aluminum tarrifs are imposed on the whole world, and not simply on China and Russia, but basically on everybody? You think this is Trump's idea? No. The Pentagon told him to do that. They told him that the US can not wage serious war without steel production, so drastic tarrifs are needed in order to bring back steel production in the US. No matter the cost.

It is again the Spooks and the Pentagon behind the war on Huawei, and not US corporations, who have deep interests in China. The escalation against Huawei started after a meeting of the 5 eyes intelligence chiefs.

Now: someone may say: but the bullying is weakening the US! To which i will reply: no, bullying is the US only option now. If they do not bully the world, and just stay on their hands, their power will collapse in 2-3 years. Everybody will start trading with Iran, Iran becomes a regional superpower, Europe will drop the Russia sanctions, the US kurdish proxy in Syria will be destroyed, Saudi Arabia loses the war in Yemen, Saudi Arabia will reorient itself towards Asia, Ukraine collapses due to lack of IMF loans, China will be growing even faster, etc. Dollar may be gone in 5 years.

Someone may say: but he wants to get out of Afghanistan! He wants peace!

Nope. The US needs to get out of Afghanistan in order to be able to concentrate itself on Russia and China, its primary opponents.

Someone may say: But he wants out of NATO!

Nope. Its just a Trump tactic to scare the europeans and get them to prop up the US Empire. All of these threats are just there to make Europe to spend more on military, and to send them on Russia's borders. The US wants to use Europe to contain Russia and as a market for its military hardware.

Their only option is to try to slow down multipolarity and the earlier they start, the better. Bannon, who i think understands the thinking of the Trump administration, said clearly "we need to start now on China, or in 10 years it will be too late".

Trump is a military puppet. He is unpopular, so he needs a powerful force to keep him in power. That force is the military. He is used by the military to bully corporations who are too much into globalism and mindless profit. What did he said recently after meeting Google's CEO?

President Donald Trump: "Google is committed to the US military, not the Chinese military".

Posted by: Passer by | Aug 12 2019 20:00 utc | 128

Formerly T-Bear @122--

Agreed! That's why I made it a point to list the EUCB and Euro as the two main mistakes that must be learned from if an EAEU is to be formulated. Both Russia and China are determined that each nation must remain sovereign, which means each must have control over its monetary and political systems. Instead of a Union implying a federal structure, the proposed political entity would be better termed as a Confederation with each nation retaining its homogeneity. The major difference being the proposed Confederation would have no trade barriers and visa-free movement for its citizens. (Recall the main failing of the initial Confederation of United States were the trade barriers erected between states that prompted the businessmen's revolt that led to the 1787 Constitution and the formation of the federal United States of America.) If a regional grouping of nations--say the former Yugoslavian entities--wanted to reform into a larger political-economic unit to better provide for their collective citizenry, there would be no objection; and the reverse would be possible as sovereignty of people would remain a foundation of human rights.

Given future challenges, IMO the above makes the best sense for Eurasia and Africa. The implosion of the Outlaw US Empire and its affect on its hemispheric neighbors remains unknown. It's possible the once formidable economic magnet of the Empire's economy will reverse its polarity and drive people out as it did during the Great Depression. The vast amount and depth of corruption within the Empire will take several generations to be extinguished, and only then will political reformation become possible.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 20:08 utc | 129

Good news
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7349729/Dozen-FBI-agents-raid-Jeffrey-Epsteins-Pedophile-Island.html
Hope they make it to the governor as well.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 12 2019 20:12 utc | 130

Sasha @124 & 126--

Given the time stamps for your comments, did you actually listen to what Hudson had to say?

I see the level of unreality soaring with almost infinite innuendo and no facts. Who voted for a greater military budget? Trump can't vote on that now can he. Which entities maneuvered him into taking an anti-Russian stance? What affect did Trump's demand that EU nations raise their spending on war to 2% of their GDP actually have, and what just occurred in Germany over the past weekend as a result? Did any of you bother to read what Crooke had to write as well as his sources? What's Trump's Trade War and Fed bullying doing to US and Global markets as I type? Do any of the above critics actually follow any of these things? Who has a greater call on what Epstein may or may not have known--anti-Clinton of anti-Trump? Who was the lead prosecuting attorney and what relationship does she have to the entirety of the affair? And for that matter, what bearing does Epstein's racket have on Geopolitics and Geoeconomics?!?!

Leapin' Lizards! as Little Annie Fanny once exclaimed! Why do I bother responding!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 20:32 utc | 131

Anyone else see this story about HK?

Allegedly authorities are infiltrating protests, instigating violence, then making arrests. Anybody have anything on this or a countervailing narrative?

Posted by: KC | Aug 12 2019 20:48 utc | 132

Hoarsewhisperer@ 73 said;"Buying politicians is the most lucrative investment of all..."

Yep, invest a million here and there, get a Billion back.

snake, thanks for the link. What a sordid mess of cretins.

@128: Interesting theory, but, IMO, DJT is just the latest, in a long line, that do the bidding of the malignant oligarchs, who's vast wealth buys compliance to their needs.


The military is just the enforcement arm of their system..

Posted by: ben | Aug 12 2019 20:50 utc | 133

@Posted by: james | Aug 12 2019 15:29 utc | 100

about pat lang again... in reading my book by nassim taleb 'skin in the game', i have to say the only way to respond to intolerance is with intolerance.. in this regard pl and sunni-salafi cult share a lot in common! that is how i see it.. intolerance breeds intolerance.. the only way to respond to it is with intolerance... maybe others have some thoughts on this?

That is preciselly Lang´s objective, in my view, fuelling the current divide amongst Americans of different ideologies, which is preciselly the fuel of Trump´s presidency....
While you fight each other you do not read about Mega Group and his connections with these mafias and secret services manipulating all democracies in the world by blackmail. BTW, that being Lang the "old spook" he asures to be and "so intelligent", does not match that he supports Trump and at the same time tells the hell always about Israel. Simply, as the articels by MintPress show, both ends touch each other, and quite close.

I swallowed for a time his antiwar stance, and that was indeed the only reason I landed there, but after reading some of the posts by some of his classist authors, like that Richard, hmm, Whatever, and Pat´s outburst against anybody vindicating something social, got to the conclusion, that, as some other many blogs, he is there most probably to catch dissent, against the stablishment, and may be against Israel too. Recall his former business in the ME....

Hence the nonsense you read so often there, except for few exceptions, like TTG, Habbakuk and Armstrong, the level, simply, is not of "high intelligence officers". Other authors who always write about US very inside issues, like Larry Johnson, or others, I can not say, since never read their posts.
What I wonder is how TTG fits in all this squeme...One can not understand that this man, who by his opinions is clearly a leftist, could be part of his intolerant "commitee".... I guess he could be playing the role of the usual pseudoleftist placed there to atract and hunt real leftist for Pat list of dissidents... Pat is clearly a predator, as his bragging on "the hunt" of Che Guevara bluntly showed...

There is no way he could be a democrat and constitutionalist, as he pretends all the way to be, the way he talks about communists, socialists and people from the left ( who also are children of God and American citizens with their constitutional rights... ). For the same token, there is no way he could be a true Christian.
This madman, were anytime to grab power, would unleash a witch hunt on leftists that would make MacCarthy, Hoover and Dulles sisters of mercy.

It´s really a shame the way he talks about AOC, always alleging "she only would be good for cleaning", which sounds as it sounds, racist, all the way, the more faults the woman could have. Trump is a whole fault in himself, with no secrets for an "old spook" related to "his connections", and then he counted with his vote and current campaigning...

Along with Pieczenik and all the other "old spooks" supporting Trump as if there was no tomorrow, these people are there to fool you into bringing in the Orwellian paradise they have always dreamt about.

Just read a news about teens being recruited by CIA for whatever purpose..I can not find the news right now...Read a lot news everyday...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 21:09 utc | 134

vk @96,

I'll believe it all when I hear of neoliberals systematically dying with their genitals connected to a wall outlet.

Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 12 2019 21:11 utc | 135

Thanks karlof1, sasha, passer by, that was a great debate surrounding Hudsons Sputnik interview. I took his words as being humour / sarcasm re the ignorance of Trump and his militarist drivers. I have no doubt that Trump is a total liar and a total admirer of 'might is right' bully school.

That said I can see that Hudson is making a reasonable conclusion regarding the de dollarisation coinciding with the USA miltary shooting itself in the foot. History is littered with prior examples.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 12 2019 21:29 utc | 136

@ karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 20:08 utc | 129

J.M.Keynes addressed 'foreign exchange' between sovereign states in his original version of World Bank and International Money Fund, both addressing the fundamental causes of the Great Depression. These presentations to U.S. government authorities also included the British application for war debt forgiveness at the termination of hostilities to avoid repeating post WWI scenarios. These presentations were then made to the Bretton Woods Conference as the American version of the proposals, reversing institution and purpose as contrived by Washington's design. Makes interesting reading the cables between Keynes and London. What exists since Bretton Wood is the American version and as usual it was all screwed up, but Keynes original proposals contain policies needed for the EAEU's ability to function (and to avoid the economic causes of the Great Depression).

I recalled it was tax collection that became the failure of the colonial confederation, the failure of the Continental Congress to meet its obligations, but then … interpretations can vary.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 12 2019 21:30 utc | 137

“What if Hudson's correct and Trump's trying to demilitarize and greatly reduce the Outlaw US Empire using smoke and mirrors that blinds the Current Oligarchy and its enforcers?”

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 18:52 utc | 121

The current oligarchy are Globalists. They own allegiance to no country. They controlled and exploited the British via Empire building before jumping the pond and doing the same to the US. The US like Britain were simply pawns in the game played by the oligarchs for Global Rule.

The plan has always been that in order for a true Global Government to take power, one controlled by these same oligarchs, that the US must be discredited and its Empire dismantled and handed over to the new Global Sovereign. The oligarchs US assets will be protected unlike the bulk of the population which will face drastic reductions in wealth and living standards. This will earn them the support of the rest of the world who have been conditioned by the oligarchs control of alternative media to see China and Russia as saviors from American hegemony. In truth these same oligarchs control China and Russias elite through an unholy pact of mutual interest

One of the unifying forces globally will be the false religion of Anthropogenic Climate Change. This will give the elites total control of energy consumption, controlled at the individual level with 5G and the IoT, smart grids, meters and cities. It will serve as the basis of the new global currency- carbon credits , to replace the US Petrodollar.

Trump serves the global oligarchs. He was chosen to put the finishing touches on destroying what was left of the US reputation as well as that of Democracy and Capitalism, paving the way for an Authoritarian Global Government based on Chinas model of total surveillance, social credit control and lack of democracy except among the party elite. China after all was a
creation of global elite following their failure in the Soviet Union as they searched for an experimental playground to develop the perfect government to be the model for a Global Dictatorship controlled by the elite.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 12 2019 21:34 utc | 138

@Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 20:32 utc | 131

Do not come to me with fairy tales, man, I read everything by Crooke, but he is full far-right conservative. Do you know who he met in his last short stay in Moscow? Duguin!

With respect to what is happening in Germany? What is really happening?

I tell you, that Röschen got at the helms of the European Comission, just the unelected EU organ who decide the destinies, at socioeconomic level, of the whole EU citizens, no matter who was elected to the EP...since the EP, as Giscrad D´Estaing clearly stated, not without a laugh, decides noithing in the EU...

But who is Röschen ( Rosita )? Just the Troy Horse of the US in Europe...If you were told that Merkel was blackmailed by bugging his mobile phone, well, Röschen does not need even to be bugged, man, she will probably volunteer...

https://rafaelpoch.com/2019/07/17/la-ue-bajo-la-presidencia-de-rosita/

Please do not underestimate us, European left, neither you nor Hudson...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 21:34 utc | 139

Just a reminder...."Daddy Warbucks" was and still is the message that just keeps on giving.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 12 2019 22:03 utc | 140

Re: Pat Lang

When I was a bit more connected to blogs I used to read Pat L’s blog. Then he annouced plans to shut the whole blog down. This was after a good old McCarthyist purge, where he banned all suspected anti-American leftists. He banned james but couldn’t ban b. because his info was always spot on. I wrote to him pretending to be extremely concerned that the closing of his blog would be a big loss to the world, depriving us of the thoughts of decent, highly intelligent Americans with military backgrounds who did not run with the establishment line, of which he was the prime example. I extolled the virtues of his patience with people like james whose lack of punctuation and capitals was like turning up at his house for dinner scruffy and unshaved (I was howling with laughter at this stage). I even invented a totally anti-Russian brother-in-law who, thanks to being exposed to Pat’s wise words, had changed his whole way of thinking. I laid it on so thick I thought even he would not fall for it. But I was wrong. Back came a reply saying he had been quite affected by my words and asking for my username. I waited for the blog to reappear before telling him my username was “you_stupid_old_c***t.”

Posted by: Lochearn | Aug 12 2019 22:26 utc | 141

Since I read both strips, here's a minor revision: Leapin' Lizards was a catchphrase used by Little Orphan Annie, a comic strip that debuted in 1924. Little Annie Fannie was a Playboy comic character introduced in the 1960s.

Posted by: spudski | Aug 12 2019 22:30 utc | 142

Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck

@Posted by: Jessica | Aug 12 2019 8:42 utc | 81

Indeed, that is the idea I have, if not by reading The Saker´s testimonies....

But, then, Pat Lang denies this...

turcopolier dijo en respuesta a Agnes Smedley...

Agnes Smedley

We want the fruits of our labors as a country. we don't really care about the economic welfare of other countries. We want more. We are selfish. we are better off than almost any other country and want to be more so.

Of course, we got without knowing what Agnes Smedley was saying to provoke such response...in the usual fould play by Pat of deleting a comment while leaving his response to it, as if pretending to get always over the top, like the oil....

I happened to read part of the interesting comments by this woman and read her wondering why 20 years old in the US could afford to buy weapons, ammuniton and pay the obviously needed trainning courses, clearly she was not a US person....and, as you can see, asking nothing offensive...unless you find prickly braggart Pat at moderation....
...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 12 2019 22:41 utc | 143


"According to reports over the weekend, former mobster Lewis Kasman said that Attorney General Bill Barr made a secret visit to Epstein’s jail shortly before Epstein was found dead in his cell. If this story is accurate, it will certainly ignite a whole new round of conspiracy theories, although they might have a little more credibility this time."


https://trofire.com/2019/08/12/former-mobster-says-bill-barr-made-secret-visit-to-epsteins-jail-before-his-death/

Posted by: ben | Aug 12 2019 22:45 utc | 144

@131 Karlof1

Why do you bother responding? If for no other reason me...and the occasional MoA reading parties I throw! I like to read through the comment section in its entirety, but when lacking time, or trying to find comments for a friend to consider, I skip to Karlof1, Grieved, Psychohistorian or William Gruff. Plenty of other good commentators here, too, but I consider a few commentators to be butter to B's bread.
Peace Out
J-Dogg

Posted by: J-Dogg | Aug 12 2019 22:56 utc | 145

Uncle Tungsten @136

"I took his words as being humour / sarcasm re the ignorance of Trump and his militarist drivers. "

As did I.

Posted by: arby | Aug 12 2019 22:57 utc | 146

KC @ 132:

Hong Kong Free Press seems to be pals with The South China Morning Post and The Epoch Times (owned by Falun Gong followers) and its work has been cited by the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent and the New York Times.

HKFP operates on a non-profit business model and relies on regular donations for support. One could probably guess at who those donors might be. If China's law on foreign-funded NGOs, adopted in 2016 and coming into force at the start of 2017, were to extend to Hong Kong, I wonder how long HKFP would survive.

Of course HKFP would say that the authorities are infiltrating the protest movement and trying to encourage protesters to be violent so they can make arrests. That particular narrative is often the prelude to (foreign) snipers and terrorists firing at police and protesters alike. This was apparent in Kiev in February 2014 and before that in Dar'aa in Syria in 2011, when protests at rising food prices were hijacked by foreign terrorists who burned down the local police station and a Ba'ath Party office.

There is also some psychological projection in that particular narrative. Racist groups like Aryan Nations in the US are often infiltrated by law enforcement agents and law enforcement agencies are often infiltrated by people with racist or supremacist attitudes and beliefs.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 12 2019 23:15 utc | 147

Zarif visited Qatar working to make Russia's collective security proposal reality:

"Back from very productive trip to #Qatar. Exchanged ideas with Emir @TamimBinHamad and FM @MBA_AlThani_ on bilateral, regional and global issues.

"Also gave extended interview to @AJEnglish.

"Only regional nations can ensure regional security: #NeighborsFirst"

AJEnglish interview. Excerpt:

"'What is very clear - extremely clear - is that we are not seeking war, we do not want confrontation, we want development for our people, we want development for our region,' he said.

"'We need stability here, but stability should be for everybody. We cannot have stability for some and instability for others. We need to have stability for all countries in the region and we are prepared to protect stability for all countries in the region, and for those who depend on our region....'

"'What we have called for, and repeat, is that our neighbours - all of us - belong to this region, we cannot leave this region. Others will leave this region; others will not secure us; others will not provide us with the security umbrella that we need. We can provide each other with that security umbrella. We extend our hand, and our hand remains extended, to all our neighbours.'"

Last 2 paragraphs directly reference the rationale behind Russia's proposal. The talking is happening. The Saudis will be the stumbling block. The Outlaw US Empire has no say, overtly.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 12 2019 23:40 utc | 148


MOSCOW (AP) — Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry has protested Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to Crimea, where he attended a pro-Kremlin motorcycle club’s annual festival.

https://www.apnews.com/0435699081f74dbfb5ff5c27ec5bc4f0

Posted by: arby | Aug 12 2019 23:42 utc | 149

@22 karlof1

Yes, there are other factors/actors involved that aided Epstein's racket. We have an excellent idea of who and what--China has the proper solution for such corruption. Ridding the world of those factors/actors ought to be equivalent to the Quest for The Grail.

At least comfort can come from knowing that the evil within Syria is currently being eradicated, and that additional evil plans are being thwarted thanks to the Forces of Resistance.

I usually avoid your sayanim globo-pablum but with extra time on my hands today...

By China has a solution do you mean hooking up everybody to Sesame Surveillance, perhaps with an electro shock feedback device, to police all those unwanted thoughts human beings sometimes have? I can't tell you how much I look forward to the day when collaborators such as yourself are empowered to control my thoughts with not just social exclusion but physical physical punishment too.

There are NO Forces of Resistance because scumbags like you co opt any genuine human emotions on which a legitimate Resistance must be based. You are the lowest of the low, karlof, and when the Purge finally comes I think you'll quickly learn that low ranking flunkies such as yourself and Epstein are both very expensive and no longer useful.

Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 13 2019 0:16 utc | 150

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 12 2019 3:12 utc | 52

"I'm a leftist."

--The ASS doth protest too much, methinks

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 0:33 utc | 151

@pretzelattack #110
I won't speak for others. The links don't say there is no warming. What they say is that, at least so far it is not unprecedented.
The fact that the world has been warming since the Little Ice Age is not debated by anyone credible.
What is far less clear is:
1) How much of this warming is man-made?
2) How much warming will there be?
3) Will this amount of warming be good or bad? And how much?
4) And if bad, how bad?
5) And if sufficiently bad, can the warming be slowed or stopped?
Even agreeing that 1) is mostly, the range of predicted temps for 2) has been getting wider, not narrower even as the divergence between GCMs and reality grows.
3) is also very unclear, which means 4) is less clear than 3). And 5): the answer is almost certainly no.

Posted by: C1ue | Aug 13 2019 0:35 utc | 152

@134 sasha! - what @141 lochearn said!!! lochearn that is so funny - you made my day!

fact is, i respect pat for some of his knowledge, but the guy is a crank - crackpot - on so many other levels... but i think it is his intolerance that i delight in poking fun of and highlighting... he is unable to see this aspect of his personality.. he figures he's this super logical - meyer briggs type - who has it all figured out.. the guy is a dough brain in many respects, and yet like everyone else, deserves some respect for his opinions however wrong headed they are.. now, i just go to get a laugh out of what he says, and every once and a while i agree with him... i agree that there are some very bright people that post there as sasha outlines..

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2019 0:37 utc | 153

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 12 2019 14:39 utc | 97

"The Brexiter strategists have calculated that they don't need to hold a vote, either in parliament or in public, and Brexit will automatically happen by default on October 31. Even if a vote of no confidence succeeds, Johnson will not resign, but merely postpone the obligatory election till after Brexit has happened. Many doubt that such a plan can be stopped. It's a real coup d'état."

--Democracy in action...

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 0:37 utc | 154

@Norwegian #120
There are facts on both sides of the debate. The problem is that none of these facts are definitive themselves, which is why it is more important to understand the bigger picture than to try and say "this fact says I'm right".

Posted by: C1ue | Aug 13 2019 0:38 utc | 155

@ Circe | Aug 12 2019 16:57 utc | 106

--[Again,] move along...nuthin to see here.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 0:43 utc | 156

@karlof1 #121
Hudson is a heretic - his knowledge and public statements in economics are diametrically opposed to the establishment of either side.
The real issue isn't training, it is societal competitiveness in the form of infrastructure and basic unit costs. Health care in the US is the most glaring example.

Posted by: C1ue | Aug 13 2019 0:45 utc | 157

Posted by: Passer by | Aug 12 2019 20:00 utc | 128

"Now: someone may say: but the bullying is weakening the US! To which i will reply: no, bullying is the US only option now. If they do not bully the world, and just stay on their hands, their power will collapse in 2-3 years. Everybody will start trading with Iran, Iran becomes a regional superpower,..."

--"Cocaine is a hell of a drug." --[The illustrious and experienced] Rick James

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 0:54 utc | 158

@vk

I put invetigative journalism between quotation marks because the editors of the NYT probably alredy know who killed Epstein.

So you have the corpus delicti then, do you?

Me, I put 'web sayanim' in quotations most often, because I know who owns the NYT and I can rather easily avoid their attempts at misdirection.

Epstein was taken off the operation by his Intelligence superiors, and unless he got too big for his britches, is sipping margaritas next to a couple of 16ish looking slave girls right now.

You will never see the body of Epstein because killing him and simultaneously proving it would put far too many other Intelligence ops at risk; i.e. when the 'agents' conducting them realized they were potentially expendable too.

Therefore the 'proof' of Epstein's living or non living status will never be provided, but of course you have your own agenda too, don't ya?


Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 13 2019 0:59 utc | 159

@88 Laguerre

Thanks for your perspective, which I've always appreciated.

Even accepting everything you suggest, however, this still leaves the basic political and economic equation stated in the video, and this seems correct. Namely, that if UK leaves the EU, then the economic result of this is as if EU has shrunk from 27 to 9 countries, in terms of economic size. In the video, AfD leader Alice Weidel cited her fear that Germany would lose its power to control the EU currency, and this seems to make sense, as it loses the alliance of the UK.

I'm not actually looking at any of the persons you cite or who figure in this story, including the author. I went back to review the article, and see that Crooke cites a lot of sources, one by one for each of his points, in the piece. I can't fault the structure of the article, although I've often seen Crooke be wrong.

But right now, I accept the basic arithmetic of this story until someone can speak to the themes rather than the persons.

My own surmise is that, if in fact Germany should lose the monetary control of the EU that she has enjoyed, to her own economic gain, for all of the existence of the EU, then she might well begin the process of looking outside the EU - obviously to Eurasia - and thinking the unthinkable about leaving that system herself.

France with its stale colonial and neoliberal dreams could be left to lord over the carcass and enjoy the grandeur.

The equation seems balanced on the fulcrum of the UK's leaving or not leaving the EU. This to me was the striking point, being more important than I had thought. I had assumed that EU was the strong entity that would easily remain after the weak entity of the UK had left. This article declares the opposite, and, as I say, I buy the arithmetic of that realpolitik until someone can address it with better arithmetic.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 13 2019 3:00 utc | 160

@karlof1

Catching up with the thread I see there are several vitriolic attacks against you. I hope you ignore it all. Vitriol does nothing but consume the attacker. But it's a very attractive form of self-harm.

The Buddha explained that giving in to anger was like picking up red-hot coals in your bare hand to hurl at an enemy. And that being consumed with hate was like drinking poison and thinking this would make you feel better.

Ultimately there's no satisfaction even in knowing that one's enemy is killing himself. Better if the entire level of hostility could be calmed.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 13 2019 3:13 utc | 161

psychohistorian @58

You gottabefugginkiddinme, buddy:

As example of the ignorance of the public I submit the limited support I get for my one note Samba here at what is purported to be an enlightened gathering of humanity....

Yes, that's it: we, your audience, can't be enlightened cuz we doesn't think the same kind of thoughts as you. So glad you told me. Feeling so much better now.

You're seriously taking a lack of support here as evidence, not against your argument (or perhaps is it the way you're making it?), but of your audience's ignorance (yo, that's me, btw) and, generalizing like a boss, that of the whole public (also me, as in my fleshnblood kin)?

Just. wow. How persuasive.

And I thought my debate skills were rusty. I've heard it said, that one doesn't swat flies with hatchets, esp. on the foreheads of friends, friend. Are you not perhaps indulging in a bit of pre-self-confirmation? Insulating yourself from criticism by saying you're just way over our heads? (Pro tip: when you got no head, ain't nothin for anything to be over).

Perhaps, if they don't laugh, it wasn't the room, it just wasn't funny?

When I fail miserably like that, I focus on fundamentals.

Pardon my interruption, gracious host, esteemed colleagues & magnificent bastards (not necess. exclusive), please do carry on as if some Fool isn't sitting here, grinning.

Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 13 2019 3:26 utc | 162

And for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe...

Bob Dylan - Chimes of Freedom:

Tolling for the aching whose wounds cannot be nursed

For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones and worse

And for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe

We gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing

One of the great poems of that age, and that author.

Live version by himself.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 13 2019 3:52 utc | 163

@74 karlof1

Hi there. Finally caught up with the Murray piece you linked. Some paragraphs resound in the air and you take them with you on the path long after their mother article is gone, and for me it's this one:

The deeper question is why such a significant proportion of the rich and powerful have a propensity to want to assuage their sexual desires on the most vulnerable and powerless in society, as opposed to forming relationships among their peers. I suspect it is connected to the kind of sociopathy that leads somebody to seek or hoard power or wealth in the first place.

Yes indeed.

For me it's not Epstein himself but the long standing case in this world of the powerful and their usage of those they hold power over.

~~

I must share a story with you. The preamble is that on Saturday night I was at a party and lingered until late and there were just a half-dozen of us left, all different people, local homeowner-activists of various stripe in the neighborhood. Someone opened the conversation with, "Epstein - was he suicided?"

Odd to be in the mainstream world and find your MoA discussions alive and seated around the room. Is the country more hip than has quite been revealed yet? I suspect so, but that's a subject for another time.

Meanwhile I want to pass on some wisdom that came from that party group.

~~

I was showing off at the party with "The strong do what they can; the weak suffer what they must" and a woman colleague took great and good exception to this. She pointed out that countless parents throughout all time have held the ultimate power over the weak - their children - and not used it, except in tiny doses with the aim of helping the child grow, but otherwise completely abandoning power in order to allow the child to be free.

My thinking has been changed by this one observation. It's completely true of course. For all the small percentage of humans that crave the exercise of power over others, the vast and overarching majority impulse of the human race has been to shun this, even in the most intimate and privileged of settings.

I rejoice for this one fact. I had completely missed it.

I could say more about all this, and I'm sure I will in future. But I wanted to share that equation with you.

Until the next open thread.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 13 2019 4:36 utc | 164

karlof @ 74

You're not alone in that, not at all. Here's something similar, stateside, that never stops boggling my mind.

How is it that people hiding behind paperwork veils are allowed intentionally to give their neighbors gruesome death sentences from horrible diseases?

In this dread state of Washington, Boeing is licensed, ffs, licensed! to act in ways known to give people god-awful death sentences. We call it "polluting." Or "waste discharge." FFS, you can no longer live on the salmon, it'd kill you!

What part of "plague of biblical proportions" don't these people get? Oh, right, that all happened way over there, way back when, and all we're doing is sitting here, looking busy until The Big Man's Son gets back. See, *that's the Holy Land, the rest of planet earth is god-forsaken dirt, with which we're supposed to do as we see fit. But mostly making babies, looking for Others to fight on our border patrols (of both inner and outer spaces), and keeping that bitch, Eve, down. All Her fault, y'know. It's in the book.

And that's just for starters.

I'd love to live a life, free of "imperial entanglements," but, rn, I can hear some of the Navy's gd Growlers.

No, not the beer jugs, these:

The EA-18G was first used in combat during Operation Odyssey Dawn, enforcing the UN no-fly zone over Libya in 2011.[47][48] Five EA-18Gs were redeployed from Iraq to support operations in Libya in 2011.[49]

And the mantra around here, for self-flagellation via 110dB effing jets over our heads in "peace" time, is, "Our air crews deserve the best training." Even the propaganda is drab. When I was a kid, there awas a big billboard that read, "Please Pardon Our Noise, It's The Sound Of Freedom." Now *that's propaganda, baby!

Here on North Whidbey, The Sound of Freedom is so loud, you can't hear Freedom of Speech. That's so almost profound, yet depressing, amirite? And that's my hometown, childhood, even country, in a nutshell.

Besides Ault Field, there's an outlying field, where the Navy pretends we don't exist, that they're actually out at sea and landing on a carrier, doing "touch 'n go's," as late as 2300.

It's a constant harassment and physical assault. All day, any day, no matter what you're discussing, however important to you it may be, you can be muted by a sound too loud to shout over. I've tried it.

And then there's the gd, god-awful, recorded! national anthem played so loud I can hear it, precisely at 0800, from a good 5 miles away, min.

It's still going. A pointless, oppressive, rumbling drone, big as thunder, but fake.

Yeah, I'm with you, and we're not alone.

That jet isn't flying, either. They've got an engine test cell. My dad used to work there. My god, you should hear the thing, you'd think an effing Saturn V was lifting off. Rumbles the very ground, not just the stick-frame house.

Proven harmful to our health. And we're supposed to "Support the Troops (or else!)" by cheering for "our" air crews and demanding they "get the best training."

We are most def NOT supposed to ask, "Doing what?" Also tried that. What a hoot! Right addictive, that is.

@ Laguerre, Grieved r/t Alastair Crooke: huh? Are we reading the same AC? Perhaps you prefer your prejudices cerebral?

I've been reading, not for the politics, but for the metaphysics. It's possible, I suppose, I didn't notice that an author of such deep insights, whose take on geopolitics syncs with that of other journalists I respect, is also a Europhobic bigot.

My computer use and access aren't such that I can do the point-counterpoint conga, I regret to say. Some of this august company do it so well, I am truly humbled.

And much obliged. The rest of you lot? I'll tell you a Zen secret.

If you keep watching this space ~~> <~~, until I get back, you will surely become enlightened. When will that be? No saying.

No one expects the Zen Inquisition!

Bowing out. Tag, you're It.

Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 13 2019 5:03 utc | 165

@ bjd | Aug 11 2019 21:33 utc | 19

That's funny, because if you do a time/ search on 'it', everything I'M FINDING COMES UP AS BEING BROKEN BY THE BEZO POST...

The play us off between the NYT VS The Washinton Post, just like the play us on the coke v pepsi rethugs v demorats... it's a binary game.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 13 2019 5:05 utc | 166

C1ue @155

... it is more important to understand the bigger picture than to try and say "this fact says I'm right".

True, and I have been trying to debate with people on such a basis for about 12 years now. Almost exclusively, in return I have received a wide range of ad hominem attacks, been called a "science denier" a term designed to associate people with "holocaust deniers" and much, much more. The hatred is infinite and endless. The debate in Norway is completely Orwellian on these matters, the online censorship has been widespread. Thought crime (fact based arguments) is actively removed without a trace, except for the hostile ad hominem responses. This is the state of public "debate" regarding climate in Norway.

Regarding the bigger picture and the actual science, the idea of CO2 causing a "greenhouse effect" is more than questionable. Actual greenhouses (made of glass) are warmed because the air is physically trapped inside, not because of supposed inhibited radiation. So there is a greenhouse effect, but it does not involve CO2.

I was glad to see your post because you referred to historical fact of warming on Greenland etc. (the vikings employed in agriculture then, impossible today as it is too cold). These things used to be called climate optima before political opportunism stepped in.

Our atmosphere contains 500 ppm of CO2, which is less than optimal for photosynthesis. This is why you can buy actual CO2 generators to put into greenhouses made of glass, to improve growth. The slight increase of CO2 in our atmosphere is caused by a slight temperature increase via outgassing from the oceans, the cause and effect is opposite to dogmatic claims. The temperature on earth is controlled by the Sun - a variable star. The last 50 years or so, solar activity (as measured via sunspot counts) has been higher than before counting started in the 18th century.

If CO2 had the effect claimed, Mars would enjoy a much more stable diurnal temperature variation. The pressure on Mars is very low - about 1/100 compared to Earth - but it consists of 96% CO2 (0.005% on earth). The CO2 density is nearly 10 times higher in the Martian atmosphere despite the much lower pressure. Still, the diurnal temperature is characterized by very large differences (hundreds of degrees Celsius) every sol (a martian day is called a sol and is about 24.5 hours). The much talked about greenhouse effect does not work on Mars either.

The facts stand against the extraordinary claims made by government paid scientists (IPCC = Inter-governmental Panel for Climate Change). They have not provided any extraordinary evidence. All indications are that the whole thing is a tool in the hand of politicians, allowing them to tax and control.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 13 2019 5:13 utc | 167

How come we get so much "news" about the Hong Kong protests but we hardly heard a peep (comparatively) of the protests in France from the MSM ... hmmmm

Posted by: Maximus | Aug 13 2019 5:44 utc | 168

All this philosophising has put me in a revisionist frame of mind.

The wishful thought "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest" is attributed to Denis Diderot. If that outlook were to be revised to reflect the trials and tribulations of 21st Century Mankind it would read...

"Men will never be free until the last bankster is strangled with the entrails of the last oligarch."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 13 2019 5:48 utc | 169

Grieved @164,

Leaving aside helicopter parenting as a possible response to your colleague... Not all authority is equal. Consider Erich Fromm's taxonomy of authority: rational (like parents), irrational (like aristocrats), and anonymous (like grammar and customs). One merits a special duty of care, one merits a touch of skepticism, and one merits lamp posts.

Posted by: Jonathan^-1 | Aug 13 2019 5:49 utc | 170

@ perimeter 103 .. your link re the joint exercises between Russia Iran + Venezuela. interesting - the choice of pictures and condescending captions ... BBC snottiness at its finest ... so subtle NOT

Posted by: Maximus | Aug 13 2019 6:09 utc | 171

Because it's such tiring draining work watching a cctv camera in shifts ... Oh Please

Posted by: Maximus | Aug 13 2019 6:16 utc | 172

@Norwegian #167
The atmospheric greenhouse effect is not the same as how greenhouses stay warmer than outside air. The physics of the greenhouse effect is not in question.
What is in question is the "amplification" - the idea that whatever CO2 re-radiation effects have on increasing temperatures, will in turn cause more water vapor to be absorbed into the atmosphere, causing more heat to be retained - wash, rinse and repeat.
For me, I don't debate that additional CO2 in the atmosphere should have some effect. The precise amount of effect is more than a bit debatable: there are a lot of secondary effects which literally can swing the overall balance either way - of which the net positive/negative impact of clouds (reflecting or insulating) is one of the major ones, and which the established climate scientists all admit they don't really know what the number is (as opposed to what they think it should be).
Mars and CO2 (and Venus, for that matter) is not a good example because there is almost no water on Mars. The vast majority of the greenhouse effect on Earth is due to water vapor, not CO2, methane or any of the other "greenhouse gases". Yale, for example, says 66% to 85% of overall greenhouse effect is due to water vapor.
So while I agree with you that a number of "government paid scientists" are really activists, I don't agree that they're all scoundrels. Some genuinely believe what they say, some are talking their book, and some are scoundrels - but the same could be said for those who combat the panic-mongers.
Ultimately, I side more with the likes of Judith Curry - who agree that there is warming but disagree that calamity is inevitable or that the science is settled or that we have the solutions in hand today to act, regardless of accuracy of science.
In any case, I continue to examine claims put forward by all sides in the climate debate - so far, the alarmists have shown dismayingly bad records in predictions to date, in jumping on the latest weather news as evidence of climate change, in disaster news as evidence of climate change, etc etc. Between the climate change makes for more and/or stronger hurricanes (false), more and/or stronger tornadoes (false), hotter, colder, rainier, dryer - the list goes on and on.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 13 2019 6:20 utc | 173

thank you, AG Barr, for burying the intelligence facette of the case. hard to find a more deep stater. we did love Sessions, didn´t we? we will adore Barr, George Herbert Bush-era "fixer". the whole government machinery seems beyond repair. nothing, less than a popular revolution, can save the country.

Posted by: nietzsche1510 | Aug 13 2019 6:31 utc | 174

Worth following
https://twitter.com/techno_fog

The new motto for Greta and the millenials: "Your rich friend is a pimp!"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7350257/Is-proof-Prince-Andrews-Epstein-girl-paraded-VIP-parties.html

Posted by: Mina | Aug 13 2019 6:48 utc | 175

Re Perspective on US economy:

ICYMI--During the 1930s Great Depression, there was no Food Stamp/SNAP, no Unemployment Insurance or Extended UI, no Fed Minimum Wage[began 1928], no Social Security[began 1936].
Now compare to the current scene.
==================================
Re Tax Scales of the 1950s and Tax Scales post-2010 :

Here are IRS Lifetime inheritance/gift tax-exemptions [not including yearly gift limits]:
Federal Gift Tax Lifetime Exemptions and Rates 2000—2018

Year Gift Tax Exemption
2000 $675,000 [All Doubled if married]
2001 $675,000
2002 $1 million
2003 $1 million
2004 $1 million
2005 $1 million
2006 $1 million
2007 $1 million
2008 $1 million
2009 $1 million
2010* $1 million special 0% option]
2011 $5 million
2012 $5.12 million
2013 $5.25 million
2014 $5.34 million
2015 $5.43 million
2016 $5.45 million
2017 $5.49 million
2018 $11.18 million
2019 11.4
*---special option. that year only

That's a lot of progress. Sorta.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 13 2019 7:33 utc | 176

Inflation :)

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 7:36 utc | 177

judith curry doesn't do science anymore, she is not a credible source. i suspect you are well aware of this.scientists don't claim catastrophe is inevitable, another factually incorrect claim. to do that, they would have to predict that politics as usual would continue.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 13 2019 7:52 utc | 178

oh, and not the science has an excellent record of predictions and projections. you're just parroting fossil fuel company talking points from the propaganda campaign.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 13 2019 7:54 utc | 179

lol the greenhouse effect doesn't involve co2? you just people are pulling this out of your nether regions. maybe you're the same poster, having a "conversation" with yourself.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Aug 13 2019 7:55 utc | 180

[I've got an idea--why don't I split up a single response into multiple redundant responses since I can't formulate it all as a coherent thought and I jump the gun to make posts and make everyone read through 3 posts instead of one...genius!]

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 8:13 utc | 181

@pretzelattack #178-180
Judith Curry runs a business based on weather prediction, so your ad hominem attack is also just plain wrong.
As for predictions being right - here's a graph of the 108 models vs a raft of different temperature records. The GCMs are really, really off both in trend and in absolute value.
The above was written in 2015.
Here's a more recent graph which shows the models are significantly warmer than the record...even with a huge El Nino spike 2015-2016.
If the El Nino is corrected for, the discrepancy is even worse.
The point is simple: the models are showing significantly higher temperatures than actual temperatures today - literally a handful of years after being tuned to past temperature records.
Why exactly are they reliable for 2050 or 2100?
And why exactly should these models be used as a basis for major policy decisions?

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 13 2019 8:59 utc | 182

@ grieved 160

In the video, AfD leader Alice Weidel cited her fear that Germany would lose its power to control the EU currency, and this seems to make sense, as it loses the alliance of the UK.
It is obviously true that the economic size of the EU is going to shrink considerably when Brexit happens. Quite how, though, being reduced "from 27 to 9" is supposed to work, I don't understand, and I not am that interested to find out. However you have not understood the German context of Weidel's speech, which is not some original and incisive analysis, but a repetition of ancient fears. As the German contributors here, like b or somebody, could tell us better, Germany has always had a policy of a strong Deutschmark, and now a strong Euro. I've never quite understood quite why they are so insistent on it, but it is observably true. It is not quite correct to talk about German desire for domination of the Euro, but it is certainly true that they don't want to lose their strong Euro policy.

As for your "France with its stale colonial and neoliberal dreams", that's just plain old ancestral francophobia, as the English have manifested for nearly a millennium. As I said, the whole of Crooke's article, and this exchange, is just re stirring gut-level phobias. Weidel has to respond to her AfD support. Crooke is waving English Exceptionalism - UK ca

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2019 9:17 utc | 183

Sorry, last sentence got cut, but not much lost.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 13 2019 9:18 utc | 184

@ Grieved | Aug 13 2019 4:36 utc | 164

Appreciate your comment here. A thought: Up until about the 1960's the wealthy for the most part still lived in the same communities as the common folk. About then, a drift started, separating the wealthy into richer and richer groupings and finally into walled guarded barrios having little intercourse between populations. Is it not noteworthy that social pathologies started becoming prevalent concurrently? Of course there have always been some separation but never so completely separate as even earlier wealth conducted their affairs immersed in the public domain and were familiar with the less advantaged about them, and had established a human connection. That connection has been broken by the separation.

Another thought also arose: Up through the 1950's into the 60's growing up had strong connections with the natural world for most. During the 1960's there was also a drift away from the natural world into a more planned, organised, contrived and artificial way of learning about the world. Later, fears of an unknown world took hold and firm protective measures prevailed and experience horizons shrank. This does explain the current state of PC as well as the 'snowflake phenomenon' as reactions of those who have lost all contact with the natural world and with human nature itself. Two 'identities' have gone missing from the population; one are those who understand human nature, and the other are adults. The population has become infantilised to the extent that maturity in relationships has become a rare commodity.

Thought I'd share a couple of thoughts your comment incited. Thanks.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2019 9:33 utc | 185

Formerly T-Bear @ 185:

Maybe the rise of personal computing &c. has something to do with the rejection of the natural in favor of artificial?

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 9:46 utc | 186

@ Anacharsis | Aug 13 2019 9:46 utc | 186

Could well be a factor. Have you walked a city street with the zombies on their iDIOT phones? It looks like terminal phase is here. YMMV (insert smily thing here)

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2019 10:18 utc | 187

Wow! karlof1 is getting targeted with coordinated fire!

Some of it appears to be from otherwise respectable posters who look to have been "triggered" and reacting emotionally to what they falsely assumed was karlof1 trying to hoist Trump up onto a pedestal. Others appear to be screen personas that are hanging out in a limited sort of fashion.

Sadly, it appears even smart people can suffer from acute Trump Derangement Syndrome and shed all rationality whenever Trump's name is mentioned.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 13 2019 11:13 utc | 188

Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam fights back tears as she warns protesters they are pushing city ‘into an abyss’

This article is illustrative of the complex relations in Hong Kong: Carrie Lam is not a communist, but a representative of the old Hongkonger capitalist elite. This elite is, for now, on the side of Beijing for two reasons: 1) China is growing a lot, while Hong Kong isn't 2) an independent Hong Kong is impossible.

But this "alliance" may end if Beijing decides to accelerate Hong Kong's integration to the socialist system. This may happen if these protesters decide to go to the last consequences and strikes begin to happen in the city. Beijing must already be doing calculations: the price of the PLA stepping in is increasing each day for the Hongkonger capitalist elite and its spokeswoman, Carrie Lam. That's why she is talking about "the abyss": this "abyss" is not street chaos or economic damage, but socialism.

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2019 11:20 utc | 189

It's only tuesday, but we already have the joke of the week:

Moon Jae-in: 'Fundamentals of Korean economy strong'

I'll repeat again: speaking like you're China doesn't make you China.

Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2019 12:04 utc | 190

@ Jackrabbit #45
"Movements are independent of political parties. It makes no sense for a Movement to form a Party. Movements pressure all Parties by educating the public."

I believe the outlaw empire has proven over my lifetime and certainly before, that your statement doesn't hold anything except false hope. Movements can educate the public, but they in no way pressure the parties that be. The Movement i speak of would have to literally come out of the woodwork at precisely the right time, which would negate this upcoming election, as it's too soon. This Movement would also have to be completely independent of the established political parties, because they're what's creating the need for a new party in town. I do appreciate your response tho!


@ karlof1 #47

"As anyone can tell from his tweets, Sanders has assumed the role of Agitator; and as everyone knows, it's the Agitator's job to get the dirt out--to put in on public display. Epstein's case--death and all--also does that. It ought to be a simple task to connect the dots in a very public manner. I know Sanders is capable of doing that; the main question is will he?"

I think he proved during the last election he won't. He won't provoke the justice card, because he can't, since he's as much apart of the cartel as the rest of them, imo. However, i do appreciate your reply. And i also am mystified by the folks who disparage all you do here!?

@ Jonathan^-1 #60

"Surely you know that the system is not a suicide pact, and that it can and will ignore its public rules in self-preservation with not the least hesitation or remorse. The private rules allow for lying, cheating, stealing and killing. Indeed, the private rules require as much when the presumptuous, er, presumptive winners are in danger of losing."

I agreed with Jen, above, that absolute secrecy would have to be done to negate from any of that occurring. Only the signature gathering could be done in usa, all other logistics would have to occur outside the outlaw empire, with folks sympathetic to the cause and using Fed ex or other 'messengers' to deliver the goods, not email, nor telecommunications. Even the signature gathering would have to be accomplished in a very strategic and secretive manner, to keep from raising suspicions from the folks you name above. Thank you for your response tho, i seem to be on a roll of sorts.

@ Jen # 83

"You should try watching the recent documentary "Hail Satan?" by Penny Lane."

Thank you, i've jotted it down and when i have the chance i'll endeavor to give that a viewing.

@ willie #84

"Case dismissed,in my opinion."

A month ago i'd've had that 'case' on the same shelf as flat earthers, however, after Perimetr posted a series of links to a pretty exhaustive take on that particular conspiracy theory and it was like a proverbial punch in the gut! Wtf!?! The glaring facts for me are the incredible technological jump they made from crashing light craft on the moon to landing an incapable moon lander multiple times successfully, but now will take ten to twenty years of research to repeat the feat. One of Perimtr's links here.

@ snake # 112

You posted a link to epstein that you obviously wanted everyone to read. I don't understand it's relation to my questions, but it does continue to fan the flames of epstein and those bastards around him so well done! My purported Movement could use people like you.

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Aug 13 2019 12:17 utc | 191

Karlof1 @ 105

China's is state capitalism with globalisation characteristics. China, in the Maoist critique, is socialist in word and capitalist in deed.

The US can't/won't reindustrialise under the global exchange rate order because our workers require much higher wages in relation to China...thus, the companies cannot compete. This is one of the capitalist contradictions that won't be resolved under globalisation...which the Chinese Govt of course favours to their benefit as a "developing economy" and therefore Hudson as their loyal employee is also a globalist regardless of how he couches his support and criticism.

Read up on the Triffin Paradox...I'm sure Hudson has thoughts about this as well...as this theory underlies much of Hudson's "Super Capitalism." The Chinese are also well aware of Triffin and put forth this theory for the reason behind the 2008 recession....and why we won't see the Chinese pushing (in deed, anyway, regardless of their words) to become the world's reserve currency any time soon.

Recently, they illustrated the reserve currency dilemma to Trump by setting the yuan exchange rate above 7:1 against the dollar....and world stock markets promptly crashed....only to recover a day later when the peg fell to 6.996:1. 7:1 bing the market psychological barrier.

FYI, some other interesting economists worth reading are DeLong, Piketty and Roubini. You may not agree with everything they say but why suffer intellectual malnutrition when you can enjoy a balanced diet from the left?

Hudson is interesting from a political perspective but his work in economics can be enhanced by reading others.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 13 2019 12:29 utc | 192

Prisons are about power. Prisons are about control. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Prisons are entirely and totally corrupt.Everything that happens in or connected to a prison is corrupt. What you know is controlled.

Fanciful schemes about body doubles and ketamine are just unnecessary. No one here even knows that Epstein was ever in MCC. Ask yourself, would a character like Tartaglione repeat the story he was told to repeat? You think there is anybody more believable than Tartaglione who is employed at MCC? As you go up the ladder from inmates the motivation to stick to the script gets greater and greater. If anyone goes off script it hardly matters, the NYT will not print it. With great reliability.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 13 2019 12:48 utc | 193

...
Beijing must already be doing calculations: the price of the PLA stepping in is increasing each day for the Hongkonger capitalist elite and its spokeswoman, Carrie Lam. That's why she is talking about "the abyss": this "abyss" is not street chaos or economic damage, but socialism.
Posted by: vk | Aug 13 2019 11:20 utc | 189

As long as we're guessing what China might do next, my guess is that Xi will let US-UK's rioters run riot in Hong Kong. China.gov has already told the Brits to mind their own business and STFU. They've also caught Yankee Regime Change specialists red-handed.
Imo China.gov should let the US-UK-funded useful idiots ramp up the violence and vandalism until the HK Majority beg Xi to send in the PLA to restore peace and sanity.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 13 2019 13:04 utc | 194

I claim no insight into the mind of the Chinese government, but I agree with Hoarsewhisperer, China doesn't have to, and probably shouldn't do anything much, Hong Kong is no threat, it is rather a perfect bad example which should be left to its folly. Leave it to Ms Lam and the provocateurs. Even if they "take back" Hong Kong, what will they do with it?

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 13 2019 13:40 utc | 195

oldhippie @193: Correct, all this rumination about how tricky it is assumes they have to hide what they are doing, which is likely not the case at all. It's not just a few bad apples.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 13 2019 13:44 utc | 196

@164 greived... thanks for sharing that women's perspective on parents and children with regard to power... the big difference between those like epstein and parents is "skin in the game'... parents have skin in the game - there children... epstein - not so...

Posted by: james | Aug 13 2019 14:20 utc | 197

@Formerly T-Bear #185
I can't say that I agree with your observations on societal changes and "away from nature".
Changes in urbanization levels, for example, is one way to look at major societal shifts. Urbanization was 69.9% in the 1960s, 73.6% in the 1970s, 73.7% in the 1980s and 80.7% today.
Equally, I would disagree that the self-ghettoization of the wealthy is anything new. There is a neighborhood in every city that has historically been the abode of the wealthy. They sometimes move due to zoning changes, but many have very long histories, for example:
1) Schermerhorn Row Block in New York City (Manhattan)
2) Pacific Heights in San Francisco
3) Prairie Avenue District in Chicago - changed to poor after the railroads came in (and were too close)
The public domain aspect - some are true, some aren't. The wealthy today enjoy far more benefits from the delivery/service economy - but that used to be done by butlers and other servants, so it is unclear just how different it is today. Certainly they have a lot fewer servants than in the past.
Even the levels of wealth aren't clearly different. The Gilded Age - one person (John D. Rockerfeller) had as much cash as 95% of the entire country, I've seen somewhere.
I would agree that the rise of the suburb has accelerated middle class and racial flight - and thus de facto segregation, but that's a very different thesis than the wealthy segregating themselves. It is an open society doing what it wants: living around like people, much like Denmark found that even radical equal opportunity resulted in almost all nurses being female.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 13 2019 15:16 utc | 198

Epstein projected a ‘cool’ guy image, he was ‘edgy’, associated with the rich and powerful, millionaires, with some big corps, with ‘top scientists’, with GAFAM, with charities, foundations, lawyers, even fringe artists and so on. He kept out of US MSM, clever.

See a selection of pix (link), or his black book.

These ppl (young women, local contacts, etc. left out), with very few exceptions, belong to a specific circle.

Globalist, even hyper-globalist (not just: we will produce our junk in China, but new-world-order type), falsely ‘left’ and truly smarmy ‘inclusive.’ Racism is for the mopes, the disgusting worms, we love everyone hmmmm as long as they love us or we can dominate, exploit, and rape them!

Typically // just removed 10 names, one was Richard Branson, he is well known by now for assocaiton with Epstein // yeah self-censorship. // I am not accusing any of these ppl of sex-related, or other, misbehavior or crimes, nor for them even having a clue as to what Epstein was up to, e.g. Stephen Hawkings was invited to Orgy Island and surrounded by groupies.

The circle is international, fiercely technotopic and pseudo-scientific (e.g. Musk a favorite of Epstein - Stephen Pinker is admired!), developed world, USuk centric — Africans, South Americans, Japanese, for ex. are excluded or only accepted as ‘tokens’ when it is ‘cool.’

Israelis, Jews are at the core in a way, accepted; Muslims are banned, the Isr-KSA alliance does not sit well (see for ex. some Dems in the US endlessly agitating against Saudis, re. 9/11 etc.)

http://toresays.com/2019/07/07/exclusive-photos-epstein-who-was-blocking-the-unsealing/

gafam = google apple face book amazon microsoft

The other side: nationalists, tribalist in a sense, protectionists, populist (whatever that means), anti-immigration, libertarians or semi-so, order out of chaos, more social conservative than not (abortion, same sex marriage though all that is pretty much fake banners in the US), old style industrialist extractionists (Oil cos..) are no better.

The split into 2 is of course not well defined, fluid, the boundaries are unclear. Yet, there are fights going on at the top. Imho Epstein death is part of that war.

Other. pov on the split. Charles Hugh Smith

https://www.oftwominds.com/blogaug19/deep-state-war8-19.html

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 13 2019 15:21 utc | 199

@Anacharsis #186
How would personal computing change the social dynamic?
To be clear, what would the mechanism be?
I think you actually mean the rise of the Internet and broad-based Internet communications like email, Skype etc.
PCs were democratized in 1981. Cell phones started appearing in 1983, but text messages didn't start until 1992 and 3G networks in 2001. Truly widespread cell phone ownership didn't happen until the 2000s.
The Netscape browser didn't exist until 1994. Email was invented in 1971 - but between the lack of accessibility to the Internet and lack of PCs, wasn't really a widespread thing until post Netscape (AOL also mid 1990s).
However, the question is still: how do these channels obstruct social interaction? Does having 500 people who you regular correspond with on email or Facebook, socially value less than 100 people you talk to in person?
Seems any such comparison is highly subjective, particularly since Americans have always been much more mobile than any other nationality - which in turn means correspondingly less "roots" and historic social connections to a community. And I note that American physical mobility has been going on since at least the 1950s with the National Highway System (don't forget the Grapes of Wrath: 1930s mobility).
If anything, I'd lean more towards the physical mobility causing social dislocation as being the issue - as opposed to wealthy ghettos or the Internet.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 13 2019 15:28 utc | 200

« previous page | next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.