Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 11, 2019

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2019-47

Last week's posts at Moon of Alabama:

Related: Inside Kashmir, Cut Off From the World: ‘A Living Hell’ of Anger and Fear - NYT

Imran Khan @ImranKhanPTI - 9:58 AM · Aug 11, 2019

The curfew, crackdown & impending genocide of Kashmiris in IOK is unfolding exactly acc to RSS ideology inspired by Nazi ideology. Attempt is to change demography of Kashmir through ethnic cleansing. Question is: Will the world watch & appease as they did Hitler at Munich?
I am afraid this RSS ideology of Hindu Supremacy, like the Nazi Aryan Supremacy, will not stop in IOK; instead it will lead to suppression of Muslims in India & eventually lead to targeting of Pakistan. The Hindu Supremacists version of Hitler's Lebensraum.

Kim Jong Un fired off another new missiles type: North Korea tests 'short-range ballistic missiles' - BBC


Daily Mail: >Jeffrey Epstein told prison guards and fellow inmates that he believed someone had tried to kill him in the weeks before his death, a source has revealed to

The insider, who had seen the disgraced financier on several occasions during his incarceration at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, also claims that the normally reserved Epstein seemed to be in good spirits.<

Whitney Webb wrote a well researched series on Epstein for MintPress News:

NY Post: >Kasman said he heard US Attorney General William Barr personally made a hush-hush trip to the [Metropolitan Correctional Center] two weeks ago, about the time Epstein was found in his cell with bruises around his neck.

“When does that happen?” he asked. “The attorney general never visits jails. Something’s not right there.”<

Other issues:


The Saudi plan to occupy and steal their southern neighbors oil is not going well. The UAE pulled most of its troops out from Yemen after training ten thousands of southern separatists. The mercenaries from Sudan also left. Recently the separatists attacked the Saudi supported 'government' troops in Aden and kicked them out of the presidential palace. The Saudis then bombed the separatist. Meanwhile the Houthi are laughing their assess off as their enemies fight each other. They continue to attack Saudi airports by drones.

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on August 11, 2019 at 17:45 UTC | Permalink

« previous page

@ c1ue | Aug 13 2019 15:16 utc | 198

Since you are into full semantic quibble, have fun. You seem to have missed the point being taken. Of course there have always been areas where wealth gathers, try Newport R.I. for one. Now gated communities proliferate, the difference? Please try progressing from this point, you seem capable.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2019 16:24 utc | 201

TheOtherDave @165--

Thanks for your reply! Thanks for pointing-out the corruption, the poison, et al, comes in a multiplicity of forms and is ubiquitous in a manner that ought to be unsettling. Yes, I too grew up surrounded by that "sound of freedom," but I was fortunate enough to be insulated to some extent by distance from its multiple sources. I was also fortunate enough to be spared from the cides our environment was raped and inundated with, although my siblings, my progeny, my partners, and their progeny weren't and daily must deal with the deficits caused. And it's not like we're prevented from discovering how we've reached this point. IMO, the fundamental reason that's so is we collectively stopped asking the child's simple question: Why? The answers are there. Most people have even been given the direction--albeit almost 40-years ago, but still available on DVD--required from popular culture IF they were paying attention: Luke's cave encounter with himself in The Empire Strikes Back, which informs us that we are our own worst enemy, and must pay special heed lest we destroy ourselves. But you already know that.

Thanks again Dave!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13 2019 16:44 utc | 202

William Gruff @188--

Thanks for noticing! Most of them I classify as trolls and ignore anyway. Don Quixote I'm not, although most of my naysayers clearly are. Eventually they will face the one empirical fact no person can avoid and that none of their semantic jousting can prevent. At that point they will be forced to reflect on the life they lived and the lies they told, and all for what? Oh but of course: For a Few Dollars More.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13 2019 16:59 utc | 203

@Formerly T-Bear #201
Sadly, you remain as solipsistic as ever.
Perhaps you might recall segregation? Physical divisions in the population have never been new. The only difference between the modern gated community and the racially (and economically) segregated towns and cities of the past are that zoning laws are no longer able to openly discriminate.
Or perhaps you have some evidence to present why it is different this time, beyond a couple of sentences?

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 13 2019 18:20 utc | 204

Grieved @161 & 164--

Thanks for your replies! You'll have read my reply to William Gruff regarding my opponents. My only worry about them is their potential to hoodwink; otherwise, they are part of the corruptive morass we must swim in daily. The point raised by the woman at your party is very important. IMO it points to the fundamental fact that power seldom needs to be employed since Nature generally provides all the coercion required--until Nature is removed or grossly restricted. When being taught how to teach, we're told that Discovery Learning is the best possible mode, with Didactic being the worst. What's happening today in the West is what amounts to the stamping out of any possibility to learn via discovery while lecture delivery is touted as the sine qua non by those pushing for-profit schooling at all levels. Essentially, that acts in a similar manner as grounding a child--using force/coercion instead of allowing Nature to guide. And that's how it is here with Trolls trying to force one-and-all to follow the same Narrative. There once existed the expression--The free-flow of ideas--and how that linked to human freedom and advancement. Again, Trolls are employed to stifle that process and are thus instruments of Totalitarianism. I wonder how many of them are aware of their nature and that they pose aa threat to themselves along with everyone else?

Is it no wonder the elite fear the masses as they believe the masses will do to them what they have done to the masses. Why is it then that the elite subject themselves to such fear. If they were deprived of their status, they would no longer have any fear. So, it's to protect themselves from their own fears that the masses deprive them of their elite status and make them like everyone else.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13 2019 18:34 utc | 205

Oh brother! "The Man Who Weaponizes And Loses Everything" -- rufkm?! my Brother, that's just It!

Stop it, you're killing me!

I'm rlly not sposed to be doing this, but no so, in for a penny, amirite?

I'll have to get back to what I am most sure is a most dynamic discussion. Rlly need to cut back. Dr's orders. But I'm the one who gave him that authority, so, time out. No wait, now I'm timing in lol.

I beg this most august Body's indulgence for a humble apology from a wayward Fool. I had him in mind, of course, al;ong with the rest of that Conga Line Without , [SIC] but but nothing. I'm sorry not to have mentioned this guy.

Amand-Marie-Jacques de Chastenet successfully demonstrated, documented, publicised, and refined several successful psychodynmaic therapies, PLURAL, at individual, small group, and community scales, and still he, and a tested and proven method chock full of healing virtues, and his colleagues, were all rejected.

Amand-Marie-Jacques de Chastenet, in the house! RESPECT!


Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 13 2019 19:07 utc | 206

courageous or inconscious?
A jailed Saudi women's rights activist has been offered release if she agrees to say she was not tortured, her sister has alleged.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 13 2019 19:15 utc | 207

@ c1ue | Aug 13 2019 18:20 utc | 204

The comments were not with you nor are they on your terms. Grow up.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2019 19:32 utc | 208

Amongst the new wave of coordinated terrorist attacks which have been unleashed just after the US mass shootings, it seems that, in front of the obvious activation of Gladio B in Europe and elsewhere, and obvious negligence by the police departments, intelligence services and governments in stopping these terrorists , the citizenry has decided to take charts in the issue and go on to self-defense....

Attention at this moron shouting Allahu Akbar in the center of Sidney who still managed to stabb one or two people, how does he end....

It is obvious that HK citizenry is setting example in Australia by making front to the violent rioters payed by the US...

But the first one who set example was Senthaaramai, in non-Hindutva India, where everybody must take care of themselves...especially women and elderly of no Brahmanic origins, Modi is too busy making his morning yoga exercises ( Grieved will like this...)...and invading Kashmeer....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 13 2019 21:22 utc | 209

Momentous (for me) grandparental occurrences have had me far behind world happenings this weekend, so much of this thread has been difficult for me to digest in its entirety. I simply marvel at what b has accomplished in amassing so many diligent commenters that the bar can almost not contain them.

I don't remember who originally brought the Ellen Brown article to our attention, but that to me was the most excellently understandable compilation of comparisons between the neoliberal ethic and social capitalism as practised in China that I have read this far. I can see how it dovetails nicely with Russia's 'conversion' (using the term loosely) to multipolarity and actual people-oriented state focus. Then for me, Grieved's observation or rather being 'one-upped' by someone else observing parental power wisely applied melds with the general conclusions that too much saturation of wealth in monetary matters rather isolates one from the healthgiving natural environment causing societal and personal vices to proliferate.

Brute counter force may indeed be the only alternative to the new order, but can it win the day? Hardly seems so. Who really wants to come to the US these days? Who wants to buy what we sell? Where's the enjoyable intermingling we used to have? Diminishing and soon to be extinguished.

Increasingly, the word is isolation. Most of us know it, but how to elighten the unenlightened? Extreme parody may be the answer, deliberate or no. The US, the POTUS, a parody. Which means a Punch and Judy show. I hope the audience is laughing. I hope learning. This is what we give them; it was all we could give.

And now, karlof1, I backpage to your Hudson-quoting link, grandparenthood tucked firmly under my belt (and road).

Thank you all, and b.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 13 2019 21:38 utc | 210

Good article at the WSWS on conspiracy theories, Epstein and the NYTimes. It includes this:
"...Given the campaign over Russia, we are compelled to ask: What if a high-profile prisoner had died in a Moscow prison under circumstances similar to those surrounding Epstein’s death? There is no doubt that the Times (and the American media as a whole) would be denouncing claims of suicide and declaring Vladimir Putin the murderer.

"This is not a matter of speculation. It has already happened, in the dubious media campaign over the death of Sergei Magnitsky in a Russian prison, as well as the propaganda blitz over the alleged poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in England....

Posted by: bevin | Aug 13 2019 22:04 utc | 211

While The Donald and Melania are packing their haute couture to go to the next G7 summit in Biarritz ( vacationing destiny of the Royals and their corteges in the South of France, French-Basque Country...), police checks have started already since the past weekend in the southern border of France, making life a bit more difficult for the Spaniards living in the borders who want to go to the nearest beach in the scarce good days this summer is leaving...

For what I have seen, while passing, only people of colour with appearance of migrants are being stopped...Demonstrations against the elites who rob our welfare state and dedicate themselves to deepen inequality, start all the wars, and with it provoke all the migrant floods, terrorism, and misery on Earth, are being called to march towards Hendaye on the days of the summit....The people has painted graffities unwelcoming the participants, especially Donald Trump, already weeks ago in the wall of the most savage corner of the handiplage....After all, who has invited them?

Meanwhile in Hong Kong, people of all procedence are tasting the savour of US made colour revolutions....Most of these people on working travel....Of course, US minions have no idea what it go to work....

Here using little children like in Moscow...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 13 2019 22:13 utc | 212

I believe the thing people may be missing is criminal justice in the US is a scandal for everybody and it gets progressively worse as you move down the wealth and race ladder. Anybody has been there knows this.

The fact of the matter is he's dead. If people organised and demonstrated in large numbers over anything to do with Epstein, criminal justice, police brutality, government criminality, even that he still alive (h/t jackrabbit and ADKC) I would respect that for its challenge to the status quo.

I promise to join in. Post the meeting place date and time. Thanks

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 14 2019 0:27 utc | 213

juliania @210--

Congrats on your grandparenthood. I became one by partnering with one already there. With luck, I'll make it to GGP. I don't know if people really know what it means to actually be isolated, although it comes in different forms. Jail/prison is one type, while solitary confinement within either is another. Hospital or psychiatric isolation is another. Adrift alone on the ocean's another as is alone in the wilderness. But in all these examples, are individuals really alone? IMO, only in the latter two does an individual find her/himself utterly isolated from human contact/social interaction. An argument could be made that even alone in the wilderness or adrift on the ocean a person still isn't isolated as there's still a sensory context for company. Trappers would trudge through the wilderness for months at a time and not feel isolated. Those fortunate to survive adrift on the ocean adjusted to their plight. The only case, IMO, where a person would be 100% isolated is if they where cast adrift in space as their context would then be limited to a finite amount and eventually exhaust itself thereby assuring the person's demise. Such a situation's been depicted on film and in books, sometimes with the ability to communicate until the power supply dies. I rehearse these situations to thus ask if a nation can possibly be isolated within today's context. Perhaps all depends on definition of isolation. The closest known historical case of deliberate isolation was that of Edo Japan; but were Japanese then actually isolated? Can a nation isolate its people? Given what I examined above, the answer is no. The question is thus begged: What motive would a nation need to attempt the impossibility of isolating itself? It can't be done, so why try?

As usual, the problem lies with the choice of term; in this case, isolation or Isolationism. What does the term actually confer? It means a nation isolates itself from the opinions, judgements and actions of other nations and acts on its own. This conduct is actually Unilateralism versus what's known as Internationalism. George Washington's often cited by the Unilateral School of Thought via his Farewell Address to "avoid entangling alliances"--why? Because the US Constitution contains what's known as the Supremacy Clause that automatically amends the document by adding the just ratified Treaty to its corpus of Fundamental Law; and Law is supposed to constrain behavior, to sanction the ability to act in some manner. The best review of the two primary schools of thought--Unilateralist & Internationalist--is that surrounding ratification of the Versailles Treaty and thus ascension into the League of Nations as well as acceptance of President Wilson's Fourteen Points which Europeans were ecstatic about, but which drew an opposite reaction from many US elite.

What we're witnessing now is a deliberate effort primarily by Bolton to completely withdraw from all international treaties that constrain the Outlaw US Empire's behavior, which includes the longstanding de facto withdrawal from the UN Charter, the Charter being the #1 de jure constraint on the Empire's behavior. Note that the de jure withdrawal from the UN Charter would finally awaken the US body politic to what's been going on for decades, and it would mean the loss of the UNSC Veto since the USA would no longer be a member of that body, meaning it would finally be subject to international sanctions with possible Article 7 implications. The Arms Treaties were all easy to drop, but getting out from under what was an initial creation of the USA is another matter altogether. As far as I know, Bolton's never mentioned leaving the UN, although such sentiment's been expressed ever since it was born, and always from the Libertarian Right, which is where Bolton lies. Even NATO constrains Outlaw US Empire behavior--I'm sure Pompeo & Bolton would like to attack Turkey as did Obama before them. Recently, Hudson's been using the term Isolate to describe the outcome or aims of Trump's policies; but, is that the proper term to use? Regarding Trump's policy affects on the domestic Outlaw US Empire, IMO the proper term is autarky--self reliance as in being forced to use domestic instead of foreign resources, which also happens the be the primary goal of his Maximum Pressure tactics--make other nations self-reliant.

In 1948, the stated goal of US Imperial Policy was to keep the then disparity of using 60% of the world's resources viable to ensure continued US Imperial Dominance and thus to figure out a method to do so Unilaterally since the USA was now bound by the UN Charter not to act in that fashion any longer. Hudson's Super Imperialism documents the changeover from the former method of control to the new method of Financial control and thus enable it to continue its dominance. Although attaining such dominance was always the goal, it wasn't articulated as such until after the USSR's fall during the Clinton administration's orchestration of Russia's Rape and publication of Joint Vision 2010, which was upgraded in a 2nd edition, Joint Vision 2020, the primary means of control now being the use of the dollar denominated global financial system as Hudson has spelled out so well in his many papers and recent talks. Whether premeditated or not, Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton's belligerent actions against a great many nations in true Unilateral fashion with no legal basis whatsoever has finally generated systematic Pushback by those nations being assaulted, which is something myself and others have long advocated to occur. That's the overall context underlying events in our world today. The Outlaw US Empire isn't seeking Isolation; rather, it continues to attain its stated #1 goal. The Pushback/Counterattack is to make that goal impossible to attain by establishing a truly Multipolar World based on the Rule of Law--a situation that makes unilateral actions a relic of the past.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 14 2019 0:28 utc | 214

214 Cont'd--

Unilateralism could also be termed Bullyism or what Mao called "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." It was clearly the preferred method of the European Colonial Empires.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 14 2019 0:44 utc | 215

These NED “pro-democracy” protest movements are a very curious addition to the lineage of civil disobedience, which includes the practice of satyagraha 1920s-30s, the civil rights protests 1950s-60s, the antiwar protests 1960s-70s, the anti-nuclear weapons protests 1980s, anti-globalization protests 1990s-2000s, and Occupy protests 2010s. Maybe I’ve just not been exposed to the best of the theoretical underpinnings, but I generally find the NED “pro-democracy” protesters - in Hong Kong, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc - unsophisticated in their understanding of politics and power distribution, and incoherent in their strategy. I also get the distinct impression the real purpose of the protest actions are to provoke a sharp overreaction from the police/military rather than achieve any distinct goals. The majority of the protesters probably do not know or understand this. Certainly in Hong Kong, the mass rallies achieved their purpose - rescinding the extradition law - weeks ago. The self-designated revolutionaries are now focussed on issues of “democracy” and “freedom” which they can’t even define or articulate, as is clear from the videos at the airport.

Posted by: jayc | Aug 14 2019 1:13 utc | 216

donkeytale @213

I believe the thing people may be missing is criminal justice in the US is a scandal for everybody and it gets progressively worse as you move down the wealth and race ladder. Anybody has been there knows this.

Oh, really, those rick folk have a few problems too?

Once again, you're making a false equivalence. Epstein's supposed death can not be normalized as ordinary corruption. Even by the standards of people who have "been there" (witnessed official corruption), Epstein's life of crime and deception is extraordinary. And his possible escape is very plausible given his likely connections to Mossad.

The fact of the matter is he's dead. If people organised and demonstrated ...

Translation: STFU. Unless you're willing to risk your own well-being something that can't (yet) be proven.

I promise to join in.

LOL. Why don't you just call for a demonstration yourself then?

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

donkeytale is not the only one pushing back HARD on the possibility that Epstein's "suicide" was cover for an arranged escape. (Unless donkeytale's visiting other sites with different names.)

Apparently, it's OK to suspect that Epstein was allowed to be murdered while in a secure US prison, but to go a step further is verboten. Why is that?

IMO, it's because the agencies can easily duck responsibility by attributing Epstein's unsolved "murder" to the "fact" that "Epstein had many enemies" - the powerful people that he could finger as having received "massages". But an escape would almost certainly require the aid of one or more intelligence agencies.

A few things to take note of:

1) Epstein kept quiet about those 'powerful people' for many years. And during that lengthy period of time, none of them tried to kill him as a potential threat to their power.

2) There was no need for anyone to rush to kill Epstein. His trial was expected to last nearly a year and his lawyers had a reasonable case to make for dismissal.

3) The document dump last Friday named two important but not very powerful people but more importantly provide info that benefited much more important people: Trump, Bill Clinton, Dershowitz.

4) Despite AG Barr's huffing and puffing, it's unclear what case prosecutors can build against other conspirators/rapists, and the most important of those (Ghislaine) is now missing.

5) Epstein's death is as strange and convenient as Robert Maxwell's death was. But we are not supposed to notice that, are we?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2019 2:35 utc | 217

Adding @217

I should add, on that last point, that some suspect that Maxwell's death was faked (he supposedly fell off his boat and drown).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14 2019 2:40 utc | 218

Americans are by far the cruelest, most vindictive people in the world. Half of the world's prison population is in the U.S. That says alot. It is a merciless black hole. But lemme say this: the world in general is a massive screwup.

On the one hand you have homelessness, elderly and mental illness isolation, serious physical illness, despair, poverty, injustice, war, famine and oppression; those who suffer any of these or more than one, and on the other you have apathy, shallowness, materialism, greed, cruelty, inhumanity near and far, ignorance, arrogance, immorality and corruption. The lowest common denominator rules the world.

I rail often for good reason. Too many suffer in silence while others party in excess on this planet. There is next to no compassion in everday life. Expose those who lack it!

Stand up for justice.

Spread kindness to those who suffer in your midst. A word, a gesture, your seat, help carry their load a distance, hold their hand, listen, do whatever big or small. Just do something. Visit a hospital, a nursing home, a prison or merely a lonely neighbor. Defend the vulnerable and lift up the least among you. Every day in some way exercise compassion. Don't ignore suffering, and don't mistake it for weird and ridicule instead. If everyone engaged in one kind act a day what a difference it would make. Give the world what it needs most--a small dose each day of...hope.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 14 2019 6:33 utc | 219

Posted by: Circe | Aug 14 2019 6:33 utc | 219

"Spread kindness to those who suffer in your midst. A word, a gesture, your seat, help carry their load a distance, hold their hand, listen, do whatever big or small. Just do something. Visit a hospital, a nursing home, a prison or merely a lonely neighbor. Defend the vulnerable and lift up the least among you. Every day in some way exercise compassion. Don't ignore suffering, and don't mistake it for weird and ridicule instead. If everyone engaged in one kind act a day what a difference it would make. Give the world what it needs most--a small dose each day of...hope."

--This sounds a whole lot like the Sermon on the Mount.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 9:33 utc | 220

c1ue @ 200:

My response to Formerly T-Bear was a question as suggestion. Another related suggestion to the later part of 185--viz. "Two 'identities' have gone missing from the population; one are those who understand human nature, and the other are adults. The population has become infantilised to the extent that maturity in relationships has become a rare commodity."--would be the absence (and thus ignorance of practice) of basic nonverbal communication, which is over 90% of how we communicate (verbal communication, which is the most substantial portion of the remainder, is also absent and unpracticed in most online "communication"--leaving very little efficacy or practice for understanding human nature or maturity in genuine interpersonal interaction). In short, social atrophy.

None of the above is incompatible with your suggestions.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 9:54 utc | 221

Coupla days ago AJ news was rabbiting on about how some separatist terrorists led by UAE officers had chased the Yemen 'government' (which they aren't actually, bein as the president they claimed to be fighting for had quit his gig and shot thru to Saudi. Then the people of Yemen picked a different bloke to be head of state, whereupon MLB gave the old prez a quick tour of the Riyadh torture center, following which the deadshit announced that he was still in fact prez) outta all the bases around Aden. It seemed the invaders had given up on the old prez, but apparently that is not the case.

According to todays edition of the graun sh1trag, it is only the UAE who have decided that as Saudi couldn't win a bar raffle, they are gonna quit now cos they have what they want (control of the port at Aden plus container terminal which is all they can really steal since Hodeidah Port can only be permanently secured if the Yemeni nationalists are totally defeated by Saudi which will likely never happen) so the recent fighting in and around Aden hasn't been just against the unwanted and incompetent former prez, Saudi 'advisors' have also been sniped, mortared and generally minced.

The UAE is gonna try and run a line at the UN that Yemen must be split into North and South again - pretty odd since it was the UN and the Brits who advocated the merging into single state.
The Saudis won't go for it since the Yemeni nationalist opposition will be able to focus on Saudi entirely if UAE was successful - at least in the short term, once MBS has had his arse kicked, the Yemenis are certain to want their country baack.

Remember some of the largest pro Yemeni anti SA/UAE coalition demonstrations ahve been held in Aden - all the wealthy assholes who favour a serate south left Yemen when the war kicked off so once MLB's SA have been shown the door the resistance will concentrate on kicking UAE outta the South.

MLB and Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum the wife basher, must have had a major falling out, so much ego/hubris in those blokes it is tough to see any reconciliation - ever - too bad, so sad heheheh.

C'mon Yemen! Get yer timing right and you'll get rid of both bands of cowardly mercenaries.

Posted by: A User | Aug 14 2019 12:54 utc | 222

Correcting my previous post on the Epstein pix, one sentence made no sense - plus extra pix now available, yeah right, ...

The Daily mail, all in one article.

in order shown: (X = the patient/dead person/etc.)

1. Red guerneys on wall, ‘emergency’ staff, visible X face

2. Entering New York-Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital (for certain), X face scarcely visible (but *definetly* same X as 1), and same place

3. Exit (imho same hosp for sure but proof not solid) in body bag just out the door

4. Exit, body bag, snapped just before, being loaded into black SUV, tagged Forensic Operations

5. A white coroner’s van (METT), same place as 1 and 2 with screens obscuring view.

pic of typical METT van:


5 + 1 were taken in the same place, see red guerneys, box with tape at the back, dilapidated decor. 2 was most likely there as well (same ppl except for lady), same signs, same paint, etc.

Did X arrive - the arrival being planned for, etc. in 5, or did X leave in 5? (Daily Mail contradiction.)

Yes it is hard to follow but imho important.

If one looks carefully at the vid below it is clear that TWO vehicles left at the same time - the black Forensic Operations SUV - exactly the same model as in 4, and the White METT, as in 5.

Tempting to surmise one contained a living person another a random dead body ..who knows.. yet the total confusion spells cover-up.

NY Post pix were taken by William Farrington, employed by the NYPost, or freelance depending on where one looks. I'd have more but this post is already too long..

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 14 2019 14:59 utc | 223

Actually dead or not dead what is the point? The guy was clearly mad (from his interviews and his 'taste' in architecture/deco, he probably had a brain that functioned only for power/money). He would have answered "5th" to any question, wouldn't he?

The "elite and the plutocrats" on the stage... for how long?

Posted by: Mina | Aug 14 2019 16:00 utc | 224

HOng KOng is burning.
Air traffic total shut down, subway paralised.
Molotov cocktails flying.
Gene Sharp's swarming adolecents attacking police, ransacking court houses, invading police stations....

Courtesy of the world's no 1 shit stirrer.

The Smoking gun...

Senior murkkan consulate official,
aka the resident murkkan shit stirrer, Julie Eadeh, was caught red handed giving instructions to HK 'freedom fighters' Joshua Wong and his cohorts in a hotel suite.

If you think uncle scam would be embarrassed,
you dont know the sob !

From the horse mouth....

State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus

'Whats all these fuss ?
Everybody knows that our shit stirrers, er, 'diplomats' do this kind of shit every single day around the world.
Our diplomat was doing her job and we commend her for her work,"

I kid you not , this is what the sob says,
check it up if you dont believe.

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 16:39 utc | 225

denk @ 225:

I did check for your purported "quote" that you attributed to Morgan Ortagus and did not find it. If you could be so kind as to give a citation of where to find that quote, I would appreciate it.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 16:57 utc | 226

Anacharsis 226

IM surprised you couldnt find ,
its all over the web.

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 17:14 utc | 227

denk @ 227:

If it's all over the web, it should not be hard to give the name of a site that says so.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 17:26 utc | 228

Anacharsis 228


'The State Department did not deny the meeting, arguing that it was something "American diplomats do every single day around the world."

Our diplomat was doing her job and we commend her for her work," State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said at a news briefing last week.'

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 17:41 utc | 229

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 16:39 utc | 225

'Whats all these fuss ?
Everybody knows that our shit stirrers, er, 'diplomats' do this kind of shit every single day around the world.
Our diplomat was doing her job and we commend her for her work,"

"American diplomats meet with formal government officials, we meet with opposition protesters, not just in Hong Kong or China...So our diplomat was doing her job and we commend her for her work." Spokesperson Morgan Ortagus

--Not hard to avoid misquoting someone: just cut & paste. It's called context.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 18:09 utc | 230

Anacharsis 230

I like to insert some 'add on' to bring out the
flavor so to speak.

The bitch might as well said....
'What's the fuss ?
We stir shit for a living, it doesnt sound glamorous, but we earn big bucks and thats
what it counts'

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 18:23 utc | 231

"... reacting to fear of new regulations regarding human trafficking, the Dow Jones went down 700 points today, as lawyers and journalists trying to sell newspapers in the middle of the summer recess had been calling for 'the elite and ploutocrats' to be held under more scrutiny..."

Posted by: Mina | Aug 14 2019 18:24 utc | 232

Lots of popcorn needed

Posted by: Mina | Aug 14 2019 19:12 utc | 233

From the link above
"A Yahoo Finance investigation reveals Indyke’s and Schantz’s deep involvement in Epstein’s business transactions and their personal relationships with the disgraced financier. Our findings suggest that Epstein was by far the lawyers’ biggest client. In fact, we were unable to find records of their work with any clients other than Epstein or his associates. "

"While Schantz’s name doesn’t appear prominently as the treasurer or vice president for any of Epstein’s known nonprofits, he was tied to one of the more unusual lawsuits against Epstein. The root of that 1996 lawsuit was an unorthodox real estate agreement between Epstein and the State Department. The State Department had seized an Upper East Side building from the Iranian government during that country’s revolution — and later rented it to Epstein for $15,000 a month, according to a New York Daily News account of the dispute.(...)
The lawsuit suggests that Epstein was connected to James Baker III, who was secretary of state from 1989 to 1992 during the George H.W. Bush administration. At one point, according to court records, Schantz was asked, “Do you know how Mr. Epstein came to know Secretary of State James Baker?” to which he responded “No.”"

What is fascinating is to see how the US system is strongly protecting criminal people and their properties/circles/assets.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 14 2019 19:29 utc | 234

Posted by: denk | Aug 14 2019 18:23 utc | 231

"I like to insert some 'add on' to bring out the
flavor so to speak.

The bitch might as well said....
'What's the fuss ?
We stir shit for a living, it doesnt sound glamorous, but we earn big bucks and thats
what it counts'"

--Yes. That is called deliberate misquoting and taking out of context. It's dishonest.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 19:38 utc | 235

@ Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 9:54 utc | 221

Thanks. Twice I tried diverting a certain 3rd party from hijacking my comment and taking it places it was not intended to serve. Just in case you're interested, the portion of the comment from greived @ 164 was:

For me it's not Epstein himself but the long standing case in this world of the powerful and their usage of those they hold power over.

Maybe you can see some relationship with c1ue was on about, e.g. racism, civil rights, whatever, but none of it was in the purview of the intended conversation. Thanks again.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 14 2019 20:18 utc | 236

Formerly T-Bear @ 236:

I noticed the prior attempts, handled diplomatically. I tended to see some irony, given the actual purview of our very simple exchange.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 20:28 utc | 237

Wasn't it irony, the form of humour that Yanks don't understand? (insert smily thing here)

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 14 2019 20:38 utc | 238

Imran Khan, Pakistani Prime Minister, has given a speech in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistani Kashmir (officially Azad Kashmir).

The speech has focused on a harsh condemnation of the actions of Narendra Modi and the Indian government in Kashmir. We leave you a link to the speech published in his official Instagram account.

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 14 2019 20:50 utc | 239

Anacharsia, what's your pay grade at the State Department?

Or are you "freelance" and paid by the post?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 14 2019 23:28 utc | 240

denk de-obfuscates comments from the US State Department's professional liar, then Arachnid_arses attempts to re-obfuscate those comments back to their properly coded lies.

When are the State Department trolls going to learn that their false narratives are not selling anymore?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 14 2019 23:41 utc | 241

William Gruff @ 240:

If I were paid by the post, don't you think I'd post at least as much as karlof1 or whomever else patrols the roost? You really think I work for State--have you read anything I've written? States are all the same. Different levels of corruption?--Maybe, but I doubt it. I wouldn't know though, since I wouldn't go near one.

Also, wouldn't I pick something more recognizable than Anacharsis? I mean, who knows who Anacharsis is or why I'd pick his name?

You did give me a good chuckle though...

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 14 2019 23:49 utc | 242

William Gruff @ 241:

I couldn't care less what any quote is but I'm rather pedantic about not being loose when someone else is being quoted, regardless of who it is--that's not just being dishonest oneself, but also either slanderous or libelous depending on whether it's spoken or printed. It's one of the reasons news sources are shite.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 15 2019 0:03 utc | 243

Most of the comments I make contain links to articles of import to the thread topic. And I don't "police"; rather, I react. The policing is done by b. And I've been writing here for many years now, while the commentator being cited is a relative newbie. Only very rarely have I written a long comment like that @214 above, which hasn't garnered any feedback, pro or con. If I had a choice, I'd opt to be paid by the character space and total bandwidth used.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 0:13 utc | 244

Arachnid_arses sez: "who knows who Arachnid_arses is or why I'd pick his name?"

Sounds like a name chosen by committee, and everyone knows committees are only as smart as their slowest member. What the name Arachnid_arses refers to (other than the barbarian) is irrelevant as it is just an account that a troll (perhaps a random one from the above-mentioned committee each time) posts under.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 15 2019 0:23 utc | 245

karlof1 @ 244:

214 on this post is very well written and obviously thought out; but I infer from it that you are in favor of UN. Personally, I believe that a government may only hold legitimacy if it is a VOLUNTARY social contract (or compact, whichever you prefer): if you do not consent to a given country's polity, you (at least) theoretically have the opportunity to move to another country (this is legitimate level of government); on the other hand, centralized global government is illegitimate because it cannot be VOLUNTARY (until we are able to feasibly move to another planet). So I agree with historical social contract theorists that require voluntary assent to attain legitimate contracts [which, legally, a contract requires: 1) understanding & 2) consent]. The other issues (financial distribution problems leading to more disparity the larger population a nation-state has, thus my preference for the relative justice of city-state type smaller populations as political units) I've pointed to in the current HK post @ 42, I believe--which William Gruff has lightly treated so far, but no one else has really touched it or gotten into it (that I know of so far).

Your name came to mind while I was responding to William Gruff's query here because you are very active in posting. And it sometimes feels like you're patrolling, but if I've gotten you wrong, I certainly haven't intended that. I own my position as newbie. And I think the "paid" issue is moot for both of us.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 15 2019 0:48 utc | 246

@245 William Gruff - "...a name chosen by committee"

Or maybe chosen by software? I have wondered for some time what kind of assistive software these contractors might use. Software is getting so good nowadays at mimicry, that it shouldn't be very hard for a tool to do a rapid parse of several comments, make a word salad and offer to the user, "throw some of THIS into your reply to THIS."

In the case of the completely obvious contractor you are currently calling in the open - whom we all are perfectly aware of and have been for as many threads as that actor has shown itself here - we have not so much a word salad but some kind of arugula salad, striving to be higher toned but failing, in the same way that actors can fail at times to capture the accent they're striving for, when heard by the familiar ear.


As you say, they don't learn. But they attempt to learn. For each degree of revealing that we apply to them, they come back with an increased degree of mimicry. And never understand that we observe their attempt far more than engage with their product.

This is what all the armies in all the theaters are doing, as the failing empire reveals at every turn the weakness of its weaponry, and the inadequacy of its innovation.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 15 2019 0:49 utc | 247

Grieved @247--

And the search engine can be used to read previous commentary and see when commenting began. IMO, it's important to use that tool to avoid making mistakes in judgment.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 1:00 utc | 248

karlof1 @ 248:

I'm pretty sure it was the day after Mueller's testimony--I searched the internet to see if anyone else felt the way I did about that performance, which was what you would expect from a veteran FBI guy which seemed to be precise at moments, then braindead at others, (which was clearly intentional but no one seemed to get that) and I found there was at least one other person here who had posted something similar to my impression of that event. I've been here since. I came for the freedom of thought expressed, because there didn't seem to be that place on the internet. Maybe I was wrong...

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 15 2019 1:12 utc | 249

So, the global economy is headed for recession thanks to Brexit and Trump. Same thing.

This presents the opportunity to either double down on Trump or create a movementeveryone dreams about.

Mine includes all the workers, legal and illegal.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 15 2019 1:18 utc | 250

Anacharsis @249--

Yes, the end of July, with a heavy increase in volume over the last several days. Thanks for your feedback @246. Further discussion of political philosophy will have to wait as it's time for me to attend to familial duties. Do keep commenting.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 1:26 utc | 251

....the permanently disabled, the unemployed, the unemployable, the diseanfranchised, the unlucky in love.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 15 2019 1:31 utc | 252

analasss 243

MY apology to that state dept 'spokeperson',
I didnt notice its a sob bitch.

The bitch had the gall to tell us...
'Our 'diplomats' day job is to stir up shit in their host countries'

She even call the CCP 'a thuggish regime' for
exposing their shenanigans.

Are these mofo insane or what ?

I like to translate, or de-ofuscate, [[[five liars]]] official statement into their raw form to highlight their mind boggling hubris and hypocrisy.

But according to anarass [lol],
IM the one 'slandering' these state dept creeps !

Can one be so stupid ?
May be William Gruff is right , in that case your paymaster isnt getting their money's worth,


Posted by: denk | Aug 15 2019 3:35 utc | 253

Well, here it as to leave it all to these yoguis....

Gunfire exchange along Kashmir Line of Control kills 5 Indian, 3 Pakistani troops – Islamabad

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 15 2019 13:52 utc | 254

He would have answered "5th" to any question, wouldn't he? Mina

Yes and he did… in one of rare clips of him I can’t find right now. 5th. 5th. 5th. deapan tone.

What is fascinating is to see how the US system is strongly protecting criminal people and their properties/circles/assets. Mina

Yes. What is obvious as well is that the media not only isn’t doing its job of investigating and informing the public, not a surprise, it isn’t reporting *anything* re. the recent Epstein arrest besides vague nonsense, paragraph fillers, and contradictory stuff.

Instead, drawing on, digging out, past ‘facts,’ previous cases (like the yahoo article you quoted); stressing the salacious aspect; lumping in guilt by association, e.g. Trump vs. Clinton, etc.

The MSM is stumped, not in the loop, doesn’t know which way to go (though no doubt many at the top have more info) - the whole thing was a surprise, which I find very interesting.

Below, via cryptome, Prison to Judges official letters. See how uninformative, guarded and couched in meaningless language and ‘rules.’ PDF v. brief.

one sentence stands out: Epstein transported to a local hospital

for treatment of life threatening injuries.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 15 2019 14:18 utc | 255

File the quote from a posting at Reuters show below under the "drawing lines in the sand" feint

Trump, who is seeking re-election in 2020 and had made the economy and his tough stance on China a key part of his 2016 campaign for the White House, on Thursday said any agreement must meet U.S. demands.

“China, frankly, would love to make a deal, and it’s got to be a deal on proper terms. It’s got to be a deal, frankly, on our terms. Otherwise, what’s the purpose?” Trump said in an interview on New Hampshire radio station WGIR.

Would any of the barflies at MoA buy a used car from this Liberace grifter playing a TV mafia don?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 15 2019 16:08 utc | 256

@Anacharsis #121
I understand what you're trying to say.
What is less clear to me is whether the reality which you accurately describe for online social activity is truly representative of society.
It is very clear that there is a tremendous age divergence for those using social media vs. the overall population.
Should it be surprising that an unusually youth skewed online society exhibits the same types of juvenile behavior as said youths display in real life?
Or put another way: How much does social media really matter? We've seen numerous examples where largely online polls have shown to be unrepresentative of actual behavior: Brexit and Trump.
I'd also say that I personally believe that the older population that does use social media, does not do so to the extent that the younger demographics do. Older people have established social connections with each other. It would not surprise me that these people stick to face to face and voice telephone call interactions which they've grown up using.
Now, having said that, would the online behaviors (or lack thereof) persist as the youthful heavy users of today age? It seems unlikely to get worse - time accumulated is the best avenue to gain wisdom but whether the "wisdom curve" of previous generations could well be altered.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't get too worried about what you see online today. Besides not being able to do anything about it, it may well be a sampling problem as opposed to a structural one.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 15 2019 19:09 utc | 257

@Formerly T-Bear #236
It is interesting indeed that you consider an open comment posted on an open web site to be "your own".
I would suggest email or some other direct form of communication, should you not desire that your openly posted commentary not be read or responded to by anyone else.
In any case, since you've continued to display anti-social behavior, I will take this to mean that you only desire to hear yourself in an echo chamber of your own devising, and will refrain from reading or interacting with your commentary from now on.
Fortunately, there has been very little to gain from such communications to date.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 15 2019 19:13 utc | 258

Noirette, I beg to disagree, I am amazed to see the Miami Herald articles, or the Twitter threads of Vicky Ward and Adam Klasfeld. Even some major MSM are still talking of "apparent suicide".

In comparison with what we get in France!!! They don't dare name Brunel for what I ve heard on the radio, and are always casting doubt on the victims. Le Monde has just started a series on the life of the superrich. You bet they don't speak too much of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll.

But some journos certainly read too quickly and I keep reading here and there about "the Saudi passport".

Posted by: Mina | Aug 15 2019 19:32 utc | 259

In the 1966 film Alfie, the theme song asks him "what's it all about?" Today's "Keiser Report" on RT tries to give us an answer which builds on the thesis provided by Michael Hudson in his J is for Junk Economics. It's possible to enter the book's title into a search box, click, and then click onto the goodreads link and then preview for a onetime look--if you keep it open, I presume you can read the entire book. I stopped after reading Preface and Introduction which put forth the thesis I'm referring to. It's very unfortunate that none of the reviews I've seen contain Hudson's overall thesis. Essentially, the entire Introduction encompasses the thesis as it's complex and requires a certain amount of prior knowledge to understand and digest which is what both Preface and Introduction provide. Keiser echoes Hudson's use of Carrol's Through the Looking Glass to explain what's happening within banking and the related financial markets. And unsurprisingly, Hudson refers to Orwell in the Preface. Take the 90 odd minutes it takes to get through the book's beginnings, which is the equivalent of a collegiate semester's knowledge. That it's the Red Pill goes without saying.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 19:41 utc | 260

" the global economy is headed for recession thanks to Brexit and Trump. Same thing."
In what sense are they the same thing Donkeytale?
In the sense that both get in the way of globalisation and Free Trade?

That is certainly the neo-liberal position.
Some people wanted Brexit in order to substitute dependence on the US for free trade with Europe. But most of those who voted for it were attempting to opt out of the increasingly neo-liberal, anti-democratic union imposing austerity. The example of Greece was a perfect illustration of the aims of the EU's masters.
Brexit means different things to different people, what it means to me is a retrieval of sovereignty, from both the EU and the Empire, and in an emerging multi polar world, using the UK's resources to squeeze Capital and to take the economy under control using it in order to put an end to poverty and to transform the social services, including the NHS, into the means of ensuring the welfare of the people by providing equal access to the necessities for leading good, fulfilling and long lives. One of the first jobs would be to put an end to private education and to use the schools and Universities to promote not only the public welfare but understanding of the nature of capitalism and imperialism.
Is this what you see Trump as wanting?

Posted by: bevin | Aug 15 2019 20:11 utc | 261

Learning a new word at times is fun and very helpful. Pleonexia:

"Pleonexia, sometimes called pleonexy, originating from the Greek πλεονεξία, is a philosophical concept which roughly corresponds to greed, covetousness, or avarice, and is strictly defined as 'the insatiable desire to have what rightfully belongs to others', suggesting what Ritenbaugh describes as 'ruthless self-seeking and an arrogant assumption that others and things exist for one's own benefit'. [My Emphasis]

I think it's safe to conclude that Pleonexia is what plagues what's known as the Western World and ought to termed a psychosis or some form of mental illness that clearly afflicts the minds of those inhabiting or seeking to inhabit the Upper Classes. As Hudson states, it's clearly associated with hubris as it's "adversarial to society as a whole"; and it's the combination of the two that drove the creation of Neoliberalism and its justifying corpus of Junk Economics.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 22:41 utc | 262

karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 22:41 re: pleonexia

Great definition, it describes an illness. "insatiable" wow. Not my thing, I believe that there can only be one king of the hill, at a time. And that one is always looking over their shoulder to see who's coming up over the ramparts. Not my thing at all.

As this is an open thread, I wonder if the relative quiet today is just because the weather is nice and folks would rather play than post. Wish I had a lighthearted tale, song or poem. Where's lizard when you need that?

Posted by: jonku | Aug 16 2019 0:42 utc | 263

There is so much hypocrisy happening over at DailyKos since Israel banned Omar and Tlaib from going to Palestine because baby Trump was about to split a gut and seizure if he didn't get his way on Israel barring the 2 Congresswomen.

This is the same Zionist DailyKos that tarred and feathered Omar for her benjamins' comments and the truth about the political influence Jewish money buys. Lemme tell you, the comments against Omar at the time over there were scathing and spiteful, but now Trump is the evil one for getting Omar barred from going to Israel...correction Palestine. them! Either you admit the truth about who keeps the oppression going over in Israhell, or you're no better than Trump, you whiny Zionist neolib Dkos MORONS! Zionists libs and cons are ALL on the same side...the side stupid is on.

Boy, do they ever disgust me! I can't read another word there. Arrgh 🤮

Posted by: Circe | Aug 16 2019 1:18 utc | 264

bevin - lol

Brexit means different things to different people, what it means to me is a retrieval of sovereignty, from both the EU and the Empire, and in an emerging multi polar world, using the UK's resources to squeeze Capital and to take the economy under control using it in order to put an end to poverty and to transform the social services, including the NHS, into the means of ensuring the welfare of the people by providing equal access to the necessities for leading good, fulfilling and long lives. One of the first jobs would be to put an end to private education and to use the schools and Universities to promote not only the public welfare but understanding of the nature of capitalism and imperialism. Is this what you see Trump as wanting?

So are you asking me if your dream of brexit is same as Trump's dream of brexit?

A more, uhm, pertinent question might be whose dream of brexit has a better chance of succeeding, your beautiful vision or the one Trump/Bannon/Mercer/Farage/BoJo have invested in for years and are now empowered to carry out?

Wouldn't it be easier to simply admit you've been had than to keep making ridiculous statements which seem beneath your intellectual station? There's nothing wrong with admitting when we are wrong.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 16 2019 1:54 utc | 265

Right wing nationalism is not the cure for right wing globalisation. It's a co-morbidity.

Don't worry, fellow old timers. There is a younger generation out there who know we are lameass loosers who mucked up the world on our watch.

And that younger generation isn't listening to us, they are trending socialist despite us.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 16 2019 2:06 utc | 266

Oh wait a sec, I get it now. I owe you an apology bevin! My bad. I forgot all what I posted above last night and see you were merely responding in kind. I was wrong to attack your comment. It is a beautiful notion I just don't see how it squares with reality.

I posed a useful question. I just wasn't required to jump your ass to do so. My apologies.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 16 2019 2:24 utc | 267

The most surprising thing about the Gibraltar court decision is that it exposes english 'justice' and the human described by Horace Rumpole as "He who idles his day on the woolsack" as being the play things of the government - as if most of us weren't already aware of that, altho Johnnie Citizen was not.

For whatever reason Johnson appears to be standing up to Trump - unless of course the orange child has belatedly realised that having a showdown at the OK Gulf of Hormuz, really wasn't full of upside. I suppose a read of the lawyers for the US' argument which tried to block the release of Grace 1 could tell us how seriously that position was fought, but without that it is not possible to know if that was just a last minute effort to save face.

Let's hope this maritime protection force nonsense is arseholed as soon as poss as it's purpose has been made redundant and all it could do now is drag some naive but willing 3rd Party into a conflict with Iran.

Posted by: A User | Aug 16 2019 7:45 utc | 268

Please keep your eyes on Zimbabwe today, mass demonstrations today, rumours flying around wildly already

Posted by: Musasa | Aug 16 2019 9:09 utc | 269

denk @ 253:

The only problem I saw with your post was that you put the statement in quotation marks when it wasn't a direct quote. I see no problem with your characterization or interpretation of what she said. It only becomes a problem when you change the words but leave it within quotes. I take no issue with your analysis as such.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 16 2019 12:20 utc | 270

c1ue @ 257:

Thanks for further elucidating your perspective. The context I'm speaking from is not actually online communication (which is generally so paltry as far as determining honesty and genuineness that I find it inefficacious to analyze) but from actual face-to-face interaction, in which generally I have noticed a trend over time that people (not only of younger age) seem to be losing skills of face-to-face human interaction, along with a general trend toward the consequences of falsehoods not being taken very seriously. Possibly, as you suggest, this is a sampling issue; however, as I am one person, I'm working with what I see.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Aug 16 2019 12:40 utc | 271

Whoever advised Rashida Tlaib to write a letter to the Israeli gov begging for permission to see her grandmother is/was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

No one should have to beg for basic rights. She has a right to go to Palestine FOR WHATEVER REASON, DAMN YOU ZIONIST SHET!!!

So now that Israel granted her permission to see her grandmother she RIGHTLY rejected their CRAPPY, UNDIGNIFIED OFFER. GOOD ON HER. NEVER GIVE EVEN ONE INCH TO FASCIST ZIONIST OPPRESSION.


Posted by: Circe | Aug 16 2019 13:24 utc | 272

Mina 259, yes the Miami Herald, Juli Brown, Ward, you are quite right! (i don’t do twitter so..), I was thinking NYT WaPo and some news clips from msm TV I saw on Youtube. Still .. it isn’t tough investigative reporting, for ex. at the prison, to find out what went on with the ‘death’.

The US MSM is so many times better than French, it is impossible to put a number on it. Partly because it is more varied and vaster - there is opposition / different povs (pro- and anti-Trump for ex) and some remnants of ‘free speech protection’ exist.

The F MSM is a tiny in-groupy self-satisfied clique of paid-up stooges and subservient yes ppl. How they and the Gvmt. exclude, censor, any criticism or other point of view, and may go on to hound, condemn, exclude those who dare, and then if needed pursue in the courts and des-troy is apalling and very worrisome.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 16 2019 14:00 utc | 273

Market Fundamentals

Economics is a fig leaf myth cover for those of empire that make all the socio-economic decision behind the "invisible hand" curtain

My example of the the lack of market fundamentals are some quotes from a ZH posting from yesterday

Amid the drop in US equity markets on Wednesday - culminating in a 'Markets In Turmoil' special on CNBC - President Trump appears to have hit the panic button and grabbed the big red Plunge Protection Team bat-phone.

As The Dow dropped 800 points, the 4th largest point drop in history, Bloomberg reports that Trump held a conference call with three of Wall Street’s top executives - JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s Jamie Dimon, Bank of America Corp.’s Brian Moynihanand Citigroup Inc.’s Michael Corbat.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2019 1:30 utc | 274

The bubble's been blown so big the # of pts isn't the # to look at; that would be the % drop. With the electronic safeguards now in place, trading will be halted when a loss gets to 5%.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 17 2019 4:36 utc | 275

Below is a Xinhuanet posting regarding the US saying it is selling fighter jets to Taiwan

BEIJING, Aug. 16 (Xinhua) -- China on Friday opposed U.S. arms sales to Taiwan and lodged solemn representations to the U.S. side.

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying made the remarks when asked to comment on the situation that the U.S. has been advancing the sale of 8 billion U.S. dollars of F-16V fighters to Taiwan.

Hua said the U.S. side has seriously violated the one-China principle and the three China-U.S. joint communiques, especially the Aug. 17 communique, adding that it has interfered in China's internal affairs and undermined China's sovereignty and security interests.

Stressing that the Taiwan issue concerns China's sovereignty and territorial integrity and involves China's core interests, Hua urged the U.S. side to fully recognize the highly sensitive and harmful nature of the relevant issue, abide by the one-China principle and the three China-U.S. joint communiques.

She urged the U.S. to stop arms sales to and military contact with Taiwan, otherwise, the Chinese side will certainly take countermeasures and the U.S. will be responsible for all related consequences.

And in the interim America wallows in Epstein kabuki and ignores the bigger picture moves of WWIII

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2019 5:19 utc | 276

I can't seem to find it right now, but I believe commenter snake had a proposal for a new system of government where there would be a functional government, to regulate commerce and deal with the commons, and a second oversight government to stop corruption in the first one.

Snake had further details, and karlof1 commented that it was the first response to their request for proposals for a new manifesto. I love that word, manifesto.

At any rate, a recent post led me to this thread about intrigue and its history dating back to the city state of Venice. It is appropriate in light of snake's contribution. The text is not copyable so any interested readers might search for "zonta" as the oversight body of the "Council of Ten" within this document about Vienna's governance in the 16th century. about Venice.

Posted by: jonku | Aug 17 2019 7:11 utc | 277

What climate problem??

Noirette, I agree with your description of the French MSM! I hate twitter and use it only as a non-subscriber, but there are also alternative websites through which you can read a thread (but I haven't found what is the best and got back to their ugly website with aggressive requests to open an account popping up and hard to close). It is really good indeed for journalists to share links (and advertise their own pieces).

We haven't see the MSM yet asking why Epstein properties have not been searched yet. From one NYT article, it seems again that US laws are taylored for criminals who want to keep curious eyes at bay. In the case of France of course, it could be simply because we are in the middle of August. The French being English-language proofed, Brunel and Epstein targets in the Riviera were probably of the stock you find there: mainly Eastern Europe. But still, the French authorities should indeed have a talk with Brunel.

Or what about the Germans?
"Last week, Deutsche Bank confirmed that Epstein moved millions of dollars through dozens of private accounts. Executives said they had believed they had severed the relationship with Epstein but had discovered accounts still controlled by him as recently as June."

Or about his Florida connections?

Or of course the UK, but there it seems there is already an official censorship about what is going on with Andrew
(found this gem.. look at the picture of Diana and Charles)

And now that he is officially died of suicide, his estate will be allowed to sue the state for that, making the whole legal process longer.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 17 2019 8:45 utc | 278

@ psychohistorian | Aug 17 2019 1:30 utc | 274

Should you scroll down just past last entry but before the Patreon support for the site, you will find a signpost to where responsibility for the country's economic malaise lays:

The Automatic Earth link (17/08/2019)

I don't have a name for them, it is said if you can name the demon you can control it.

Thanks for bringing the information in comment #276 to our attention. Important to be aware of

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 17 2019 16:05 utc | 279

@karlof1 #262
Hudson has communicated at length how neoliberal economics did not arise spontaneously or even due to scholarly work. It was absolutely an outcome of the 1% funding a counter-reformation vs. the progressive economists.
From this view, it isn't clear that the issue is pleonaxia - as you describe it - as opposed to just plain selfishness (egoistikos in Greek).
Some would argue that pleonaxia is the same as selfishness, but there is a space between the desire to appropriate from others vs. the desire to only benefit the self, although in both cases there is a shared lack of empathy/fairness with respect to others.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 17 2019 16:36 utc | 280

@Anacharsis #270
Fair enough.
I would note that it might be interesting for you to inquire or otherwise check on the online presence of these people you sample from.
It might be revealing if there is a correlation between the level of online activity vs. the ability to interact with others.
To be fair, online isn't the only channel for solipsism or shared minority worldviews. CNN and Fox news are polar opposite examples of the same tendency in television, with NPR and conservative talk shows in radio.
Even then, I wonder how much of this is an outcome of ever increasing financial and social precarity. People are often their most angry and intolerant in these situations, and the level of precarity in the US has unquestionably increased a great deal in the past 20 years.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 17 2019 16:40 utc | 281

Q: Why do poets get taken out first?
A: Spoilers!

On the Re-Presentation of Geopolitics as Di-Versions in Science Fiction or,


(We are watching a recording in progress. The Osgoods are sitting behind a desk with a [sic] eighteen inch square box on it, making a video. The one on the right has a 4th Doctor scarf looped around her neck. We'll call her Osgood 1. The one on the left is wearing the 7th Doctors query motif pullover. Designate her Osgood 2. One of the papers pinned to a notice board on the wall is a headline - White House Appoints Alien Ambassador.)
OSGOOD 2: Hello.
OSGOOD 1: Hello. Do you want to?
OSGOOD 2: No, you can, if you
BOTH: Shall we do it together? Operation Double. The Zygon peace treaty.
OSGOOD 2: I'm Osgood.
OSGOOD 1: I'm also Osgood.
OSGOOD 2: Remember that. It'll be important later.
OSGOOD 1: Operation Double is a covert operation, outside of normal UNIT strictures, to resettle and rehouse an alien race in secrecy on planet Earth. [That old trope? Covert ops and, way moreover, their not-so-covert operatives, are themselves utter self-parodies these days, and the banes of our pointlessly hindered lives, or hadn’t you noticed, dear Dr. Who script writers?]
OSGOOD 2: With UNIT's help, twenty million Cinderellafellas have been allowed to take human form, been dispersed around the world, and are now living amongst us.
OSGOOD 1: We're making this in case something goes wrong. In case UNIT is infiltrated. In case something occurs to unmask [strike: “rile” à la Zbigniev Brzezinski, to be specific à la Miriam Makeba] the Cinderellafellas.
OSGOOD 2: Or in case one or both of us dies.
(We are shown a cemetery, with a Osgood standing in front a black marble headstone simply engraved My Sib, holding white flowers [strike: a decrepit, putrid cornucopia.)
OSGOOD 1: The Cinderellafellas are a peaceful race.
OSGOOD 2: Their shape-changing ability should not be considered a weapon.
OSGOOD 1: It's a survival mechanism [strike: adaptation strategy.]
OSGOOD 2: They embed themselves in other cultures, and live out their lives in their new bodies in peace and harmony. Mainly.
OSGOOD 1: Any race is capable of the best and the worst.
OSGOOD 2: Every race is peaceful and warlike.
OSGOOD 1: Good and evil. [

Ok, stop. Just stop. How in the Whathavuverse could a BeingBecoming exist, across all spacetime, at and on any and every possible vector, all at once, and not at all, too, and still not notice the Way We/They/It are alltogether arising simultaneously from the same ineffable Source? I mean, rlly, amirite?

Strike: “Good and evil.” Insert: “Potential for hamartia.”

Just when I’m perfectly sure whoever’s writing this stuff knows what the eff they’re doing, up they chuck some trite greeting card bollocks. Or worse, straight up PSYOP-begetting MYTHOPs.

Q: What’s a MYTHOP?
A: The titanic progenitor of Cyclopean PSYOPs, naturally.

Q: What's more powerful, a myth or a nuclear weapon?
A: The whole world got jacked to war by myths about nuclear weapons, not any actually existing hardware. And that's just for starters, off the top of my headless head.

Like, David Tennant using his Lord’s stolen machine to go visit… Marie effing g.d Antoinette?! In omg.d. Versailles?!

Now if this poet had a TARDIS, and I do, I’d use it to bring Mary’s of entirely other Colors right here, right now, just to say their name, (and they are such magnificent names! “Wolfstonecraft, Mary WolfStoneCraft,” and “Amand-Marie-Jacques de Chastenet,” for starters) or to hold notorious hamarty animals, up to and including the g.d Galactic Council itself, to account. And I did. And even I didn’t know it at the time! No, rlly.

"Hi, I'm Dave."
"Hi, I'm Dave."
BOTH: "He's the nice one."

What do you call a thing that looks like an entirely other plane of existence, wholly orthogonal to the first yet original, consonant, integral, and clear as a voluminous, moonlighted sky, in its own right, when you look at it in just the right Light, so much so sometimes you’re struck speechless and stuck there, suspended in the bliss of aesthetic arrest?

(Those who really want to know will look it up, that’s why cryptic. They rest of you lot? You’ll have to go “just do” yourselves. A Wayward Fool, in the boudoir of A Certain Wolfstonecraft, out like a trout.)


However, the poetics of Joyce, his understanding of a work’s artistic purpose owes, quite suprisingly, a lot to Aristotle and Aquinas.

Towards the end of A Portrait, Stephen defines art as “the human disposition of
sensible or intelligible matter for an esthetic end” (207). By “esthetic end” he means “beauty”,
and to clarify what he means by beauty and the aim of art, he refers to Aquinas and Aristotle.
The theoretical formulation of Joyce’s aesthetic rigidly followed Thomistic principles
neglecting the metaphysical (i.e. Catholic and teleological) aspects of them. His understanding
of poetic composition, on the other hand, followed Aristotelian poetics neglecting the didactic
and moralistic views of them. Joyce, we might say, was the agnostic Aquinas and amoral and
sceptic Aristotle of the 20 th century who fictionalized himself as the reincarnation of Dedalus,
the inventor artist of Greek mythology. When we open A Portrait, the first thing we see is a
sentence in Latin: “et ignotas animum dimittit in artes: and he turns his mind into unknown
arts”. This line is from Ovid’s Metamorphoses where it refers to Daedalus, the great master
craftsman who fashioned the labyrinth in Crete. King Minos, the ruler of Crete, tries to keep
Daedalus as a kind of serf, but he determines to fly from Crete with his son Icarus. So Daedalus
turns his mind into unknown arts, makes two sets of waxen wings, and they do fly. The opening
motto, then, refers to Joyce’s decision to make wings of art. Icarus flew too high, the wax on his
wings melted and he fell into the ocean. But Daedalus did not fall. Joseph Campbell states that
“Daedalus escaped from Crete to the mainland, Joyce escaped from the provincial culture of
Ireland to its great mainland source. He also flew from the symbolism of the Roman Catholic
Church to the universals that Jung calls the ‘archetypes’ of which Christian imagery is an

162 James Joyce on Art, Poetics and Pornography

inflection. He escaped from his own spiritual provincialism into the total humanity which is our
deep shared heritage
.” (2004: 8-9)

In A Portrait, after defining art as “the human disposition of sensible or intelligible matter
for an esthetic end”, Stephen subdivides it into three forms progressing from one to the next:


Antakyalioglu, Z. (2015). JAMES JOYCE ON ART, POETICS AND PORNOGRAPHY. INIJOSS-Inonu University International Journal of Social Sciences, 4:2(8), 160–168.

Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 17 2019 19:06 utc | 282

Jen @ 83 r/t documentary recommendation: "Hail Satan?"

Thanks! Hadn't heard of it. Sounds like a great use of Play time. Without even looking, tho, I can already tell there aren't any TST brick 'n mortar chapters nearby, or I'd've heard about them getting torched.

Kudos, all, for a mighty fine, even sinuous at times, Point-Counterpoint Conga Line. What can be gleaned here could fill a bushel of books.

And as with the real thing, there are parts where I'd like to jump right in, and those I dare not touch. My doctor says I'll be all right.... (h/t Tom Waits)

I really can produce a real medical doctor's note, if that helps. And, honestly, that g.d Ringing in my Ears gets on my nerves, after a while. It's somewhat like when my tablet switches on Concert Hall mode by itself, and everything's echoing that doesn’t normally, which is great, but all that auditory iridescence, so to speak, is a bit distracting, (see also, letting the Word behind words say the Thing. Oh all right, I'll look it up. Might as well make myself useful while I’m on the DL.)

(Additional: "I gimped myself homeworking too hard, but we'll get over it," is topping the list of what to tell my very good buddies, who do, indeed, use books for door stops, but can, in deed, build things I can't begin to imagine. They've got wicked senses of humor, too.)

Might hat is off to y'all.

Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 18 2019 3:57 utc | 283

Below is a link to a story about the US state of Kentucky requiring all schools to prominently display the 1950's changed motto of the US that originally was E Pluribus Unum

Kentucky School District Complies With Mandatory 'In God We Trust' Displays With Framed Dollar Bills

This gives me good feelings about Kentucky understanding that the God Republicans are pushing here is the God of Mammon of my ongoing ire and teaching their students such context.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 18 2019 4:16 utc | 284

Formatting note r/t TheOtherDave @ 282: uh, no, that is neither WISaw or WIGot.

Like "air-headed" artists are known to do, I spent a good long time just looking at it, being in touch with all the minutiae (as Andy Goldsworthy says of each and every stone or slab of ice in his magnificent cairns: for a time, after walking away reluctantly, he can still feel them becoming; more:;; .)

I copied text from a pdf, cleared it a few times, and previewed it repeatedly, because that's how the author published it, and I like clear, easily readable text. It's a "transparency to transcendence" thing.

No, I have no idea why it looks all "poetic" now. See? lol

Posted by: TheOtherDave | Aug 18 2019 5:32 utc | 285

Two excellent discussions in this Fr radio program
(1st half on freedom of information in France and 2nd half on the current political situation in Sudan)

Posted by: Mina | Aug 18 2019 11:51 utc | 286

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