Syrian 'Rebels' Feel Left Behind - Burn 'Traitor' Erdogan's Picture
Since 2011 the Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has used Syrian 'rebels' and Islamist Jihadis as proxy forces against the Syrian government. These forces are now mostly confined to Idleb governorate next to the Turkish border. The Syrian army has recently made progress against the Jihadis. Turkey has not come to their help. That their resistance is futile has begun to dawn on them. Syria will recover the whole governorate and those who resist will be eliminated. The 'rebels' fear that their punishment is coming and they now want to flee to Turkey. Unfortunately Turkey does not want them.
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Today about a thousand 'rebels' tried to cross through the Al-Bab border station into Turkey. Videos show a long line of cars of fleeing people. At the front several hundred men managed to enter Turkish ground. They were pushed back by Turkish army forces with water cannon trucks, tear gas and finally with gunfire. At least two 'rebels' were killed.
People shouted "Traitor traitor traitor, Turkish army is traitor". They burned pictures of Erdogan while screaming takbir and allahu akbar.
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Since the beginning of the war on Syria the 'rebels' had hoped that the Turkish army would come to their help or at least protect them. Last week's meeting between Erdogan and President Putin of Russia finally convinced them that this will never be the case. Since Russia entered the war on the Syrian side Putin has managed to turn Erdogan from an enemy into a tamed dog. Erdogan was in Moscow to check out the airplanes Russia will sell him and Putin bought him ice cream.
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After much resistance Erdogan has finally given up on Idleb. While Russia had agreed to a ceasefire in Idleb, Erdogan failed to deliver his part of the deal. The Jihadis in Idleb, supplied by Erdogan, continued to attack Russian forces and Syrian civilians. The Syrian and Russian forces responded with an intense and well targeted bombing campaign and by taking back more and more land. Eleven days ago Turkey made a last attempt to stop the Syrian army by sending a convoy of troops to prevent the recapture of Khan Shaykhun. The convoy was bombed and Khan Shaykhun fell.
That was the moment Erdogan gave up. Five of his generals, two responsible for the Turkish observation posts in Idleb, asked for their retirement. Erdogan traveled to Moscow and made some deal. Syria will regain Idleb and Erdogan got an ice cream.
The pressure of people who want leave Idleb after their years of fighting against the Syrian state will not end. Turkey's economy is in a downturn. The people have become wary of refugees. There is nothing to win for Erdogan by letting more people in.
The Syrian army campaign continues. The next bigger target will be Maarrat al-Numan with a pre-war population of 80,000 people. Most of them have no reason to fear the Syrian government. But many will want to flee the fighting. Each assault will push more people to leave.
There will be more incidents at the border and within Turkey. The 'rebels' and Jihadis will want to take revenge on the Turkish traitors who pushed them to fight the Syrian government only to leave them behind when they failed to win. The soldiers in the Turkish observation posts in Idleb are now hostages of the Jihadis. They may need the help of Russian bombers to fight their way out or will have to sit still until the Syrian army liberates the region around them.
Posted by b on August 30, 2019 at 17:07 UTC | Permalink
thanks b, for this update... it helps with all the horror to offer a funny one liner - " Syria will regain Idleb and Erdogan got an ice cream." i do wonder what happens east of the euphrates after idlib is dealt with... of that erdogan also has an interest in seeing the kurds in no power of power too...
Posted by: james | Aug 30 2019 17:28 utc | 2
Oh for want of a few Kailber cruise missiles to hit the lackeys of the anglozionist empire at the Al-Bab border station. I guess Erdogan sees the writing on the wall and knows not to trust ANYONE from the anglozionist empire. They never keep their promises.
PS: Thanks for ANNA for providing footage of the fighting and the success of the SAA and Russian Aero Space forces in routing the TERRORIST!
Posted by: Tonymike | Aug 30 2019 17:41 utc | 5
Poutin has been saving the Turks for 4 years now. When will it stop??????? Instead of bullets he gives them free flights. This is worse than the US air lifting ISIS all over the world and acting like their own private air service.
Posted by: Igor Bundy | Aug 30 2019 17:42 utc | 6
Yet another war started by Obama, and lost by Trump.
"Mr President Trump, why does America only lose wars in your Presidency? What is the difference between your policy towards other nations and war making, vs Hillary's or Obama's policies?"
None, of course. Just the nations, faces, and timing change that's all.
Posted by: timbers | Aug 30 2019 17:42 utc | 7
Thanks for the update on Syria b
What I don't understand is how the supposed "safe zone" fits into this picture?
Another question I have is when/if Syria will reclaim its oil fields in the region?
Progress is slow for a war that has been "over" for a year or so.
Driving the US actual and proxy forces out of Syria still seems a long way off.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 30 2019 17:57 utc | 8
Hard to imagine the most valuable Al-cia-duh assets just being abandoned. Does b have any info on how many have been seeping out in the past year? Surely they must be safely in "further training" or forward deployed by now.
Posted by: NOBTS | Aug 30 2019 17:58 utc | 9
> Another question I have is when/if Syria will reclaim its oil fields in the region?
Presumably they will liberate Idlib first before looking to turn up the heat east of the Euphrates, but you have to think that's next. The Golan, who knows...
Posted by: AshenLight | Aug 30 2019 17:59 utc | 10
An article claims that the brouhaha at the Turkish border post is part of an attempted setup by jihadists to feign a humanitarian crisis and that families were pushed to "flee" under jihadist threat.
Might this, if the article's claims are true, be part of the reasons for the surprising unilateral cease-fire starting 31th of august, suddenly announced by Syrian and Russian army?
Posted by: Lurk | Aug 30 2019 18:06 utc | 11
Turkey's geopolitical position as the threshold to everything and everywhere can play safe harbor to a maximally duplictous figure as Erdogan. But only for a period of time. At some point everybody sees the front and back of you one too many times. The whirling dervish overstays his revolutions. It's a testament to Putin's remarkable skills that he seems to have mastered the rhythm that is Erdogan and rides the roller coaster as well as is possible. Whereas lesser statesmen succumb to exasperation. Obama succumbed so far as to facilitate an unsuccessful coup.
Posted by: FSD | Aug 30 2019 18:48 utc | 13
I don't believe Syria will ever be the same state it was before the empire fomented the "civil war".
When the empire shows up, it, and their proxies never fully withdraw.
One can only hope the Syrian people gain some moderate peace and tranquility from all the evil foisted on them, by the evil empire and her minions.
Posted by: ben | Aug 30 2019 18:55 utc | 14
According to a report in PressTV.com, the Syrians have unilaterally agreed to ceasefire in de-escalation zone:
"Syrian forces to cease fire in Idlib de-escalation zone from Saturday: Russia"
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/08/30/604868/Syria-Idlib
Russia is giving Turkey and some of the civilians an opportunity to Reconcile, move or when the ceasefire ends, to die.
This is how they have operated the entire war. Stop and go warfare, but always on course to take the turf no matter what.
Erdogan failed over and over to clean up this de-escalation zone. Putin set him straight the other day in Moscow.
The facts on the ground are all pointing to Turkey's full withdrawal to a secure zone along the border.
Erdogan has bigger fish to fry.
One of the incentives Russia offered was Roscosmos will put a Turkish cosmonaut up in the ISI space station in 2023, the Turk centennial year. This, plus Su-35s and Su-57s and even technology transfers in co-production deals is worth so much more than the insane war in Syria. Russia will also assist with gas and oil exploration for Turkey (no other nations want Turkey to have that offshore Cyprus).
Then there is that Russian ice cream, the favorite of President Xi Jinping. Can't say no to Vlad when you get Russian ice cream.
Posted by: Red Ryder | Aug 30 2019 18:57 utc | 15
I doubt that Erdogan was ever that much interested in defending Idlib. His electoral base sympathises with the Jihadis, but it was never a basic Turkish interest, which is to prevent Kurds from causing trouble within Turkey. If the Idlib jihadis have to be abandoned, he will do it.
Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 30 2019 18:59 utc | 16
I wonder when Vlad will open a Dairy Queen at Incirlik?
Posted by: Taffyboy | Aug 30 2019 19:00 utc | 17
To judge from b's report, the population of Idlib has panicked and been on the run today. How the Syrians exploit that is yet to be seen. Go for the kill, or compact Jihadiland into an ever smaller territory, in order to avoid too many deaths. I don't know what they'll do.
Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 30 2019 19:14 utc | 18
@Lurk #11
Thank you for that article. It makes more sense than the fall of Khan Shaykhun leading to a run on the Al-Bab border post to the north east of Aleppo, but the gist of b's article remains correct.
Posted by: mls-mtl | Aug 30 2019 19:39 utc | 19
Erdogan traveled to Moscow and made some deal. Syria will regain Idleb and Erdogan got an ice cream.
:)
Posted by: Zack | Aug 30 2019 19:50 utc | 20
AshenLight | Aug 30 2019 17:59 | 10
My thoughts too... but as long as Syria and its allies can remain strong & composed, by the time their attention turns to Golan, Bibi may have replaced all their forces there with mannequins
Israeli Army Replaces Troops With Mannequins on Lebanon Border
Posted by: xLemming | Aug 30 2019 19:54 utc | 21
"Syria will regain Idleb and Erdogan got an ice cream."
Hysterical.
Posted by: Joe | Aug 30 2019 19:58 utc | 22
"Besieged" Turkish observation post in Morek, caught in the pocket by SAA - video.
See also: https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/08/30/another-syrian-victory-and-wests-telling-silence/
As nice as that pun is: To think that Erdogan is a tamed dog and is getting pulled over the table by Putin is pretty optimistic.
Erdogan is as skillful as Putin is, and has still much leverage in his hands.
With Putins own economic problems, escalating since his neoliberal pension "reform", and Russias dependence on military hardware sales, he is not in such a strong position after all.
This "ceasefire" could well extend into next year. IMHO it is far to soon to party.
As nice as it would feel.
Sadly the latest discussions between the SDF and Assad were not fruitful. The rumored agreement (To let the SAA take over SDF areas in case of Turkish attack) was not achived; Kurds later stated they still make their "Autonomy" as essential for any deal.
Though no truly knows what was dicussed besides them.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Aug 30 2019 20:12 utc | 25
On the previous thread:
Syria - Army Cuts Off Khan Shaykhun - Russia Bombs Turkish Reinforcement
I commented how comically obvious that operation was.
"Erdy letting his hired guns get killed on purpose so he doesn't have to pay them anymore and keeps his hands cleaned when they are forever removed from the payroll."
Seems like those 'rebels' just got their final notice and told not to come to work after the weekend.
Posted by: O | Aug 30 2019 20:14 utc | 27
I wonder what Netanyahu thinks about all this? My guess is that once he saw Eedogan getting down on that ice cream cone with Putin, all cozy and BFF, that he got very livid indeed since one of the main primary reasons this war was even waged was to benefit Israel. Too bad so sad.
Posted by: Erik | Aug 30 2019 20:20 utc | 29
The Syrians/Russian/Iranians are just being prudent by calling a ceasefire. Even in the most successful advance, with screaming enemies fleeing before you, there comes a time to stop, lest you wind up being the one caught in a cauldron with depleted ammo, a long logistics train, and exhasted troops. They are doing quite well this way, and much less expensively then if they got sucker-punched by the jihadis.
And it's a gimmee in the circumstances to cover Erdogan's butt/Keep him happy, you could see that Putin went out of his way to make sure Erdogan was not too upset.
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 30 2019 20:44 utc | 30
US "Syrian envoy" James Jeffery spoke at the Aspen Security Forum last month, articulating Plan B to follow the failure of America's Plan A - the removal of Assad. His assurance that there is no military solution for Syria is now seriously undermined. Plan C, one must assume, will be heightened sanctions and disruption to Syria's reconstruction and a stronger force presence in the occupied areas to the east and south.
Jeffery (July 19, 2019) :
There is no military solution…they're not winning on the ground as they just have seen in Idlib… They started that offensive. There was a ceasefire agreed between the Russians and the Turks because the Turks also have troops in Idlib… it was broken largely by the Russians and Syrians two months ago in this last gasp attempt to have a military victory. We are trying to leverage the fact they've made no real progress to show them once again you cannot win this war…our plan B is to work with the Russians on this compromise solution step by step through that political process through to U.N. monitored national elections and a government that will actually behave like a normal country in return for foreign forces beginning with the Iranians withdrawing… So that's the program that we're putting on the table. Until then we're trying in every way to up the pressure: there's military pressure simply by the fact that U.S. forces are with our local allies fighting the remnants of ISIS in the northeast of the country and along the Jordanian Iraqi border… There's economic pressure, there are very extensive sanctions on Syria…We've also been successful in blocking any reconstruction assistance to this regime or any of the areas that the regime controls until we see the political process and that's working. Finally diplomatic pressure. Syria was thrown out of the Arab League at the beginning of the conflict… it was rejected once again in March at an Arab League summit. And we think that the Arabs will hold the line against Syria coming back. So we have pressure from all three sources….we have a very large agenda on Syria with the Turks. They are our partners in many respects in the northwest in the fight against ISIS. They're our partners in the political process. They have good ties with the opposition and often represent them to the United Nations.
Posted by: jayc | Aug 30 2019 20:48 utc | 31
Erdogan will get his safe zone east of the Euphrates, reduced in size, cleared of Kurds.
. . .from Arab News
In early August, Ankara and Washington agreed to set up a safe zone between the Turkish border and Syrian land controlled by the US-backed YPG militia. They also established a joint operations center, which has reached full operational capacity. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2019 20:53 utc | 32
When former allies and satraps start changing side there is generally a race to the door, to change sides...
First Erdo...
This is one reason imperial collapse is often very fast.
Similarly, when an empire is seen to be unable to win a war, eg looses several one after another (Korea, 'Name ddadadad Syria...and also is seen to avoid combat (Iran), well, people are liable to notice, eh?
A sad denouement...
Posted by: Walter | Aug 30 2019 21:09 utc | 33
I'd have thought the solution as to what to do with most of the takfiris in Idlib province would be straightforward: Turkish President Erdogan tells them he's sending them all back to China where they'll all be sent to re-education camps. Everyone then sits back as the takfiris commit collective suicide to avoid this fate or turn on the mercenaries and foreign "advisors" among them.
This would save the SAA the expense of getting rid of the takfiris and at the same time relieve China of the expense of taking back Uyghur terrorists and their families whose loyalties are always going to be suspect.
Posted by: Jen | Aug 30 2019 21:10 utc | 34
@Posted by: Canthama | Aug 30 2019 17:26 utc | 1
Well, let´s try to be fair here.
The "rebels" only trained in trainning camps created to this purpose in the borders of Turkey, but they arrived in Turkey by very porous borders of Jordania, Israel, and various Stans in Central Asia. Obviously, they will never be able to return to Central Asia, since Russia will take care of it.
IMO, they should be shuttled by US Marine Corps military helicopters ( more or less the same way they arrive in Afghanistan and other fronts... ) and be redistributed at share amongst the "Commonwealth of Internatinal Terrorism", with which several thousands should leave immediately for Riyad and occupy the luxury hotel where MBS tortured his own family ( they will find themselves in their sauce there...)some other thousands should end living with The Donald and Melania in Trump Tower during the winter and go all together to Mar-a-Lago once summer arrived, some other thousands should go invading the whole Virginia ( Alexandría and indoor and ourtdoor kitchens of the wealthy intelligence community included...they have good meat...brought especially from Italian Delicatessen...no need to go around beheading anymore....), besides they should go occupying CIA facilities and put themselves comfortable there ( it seems they have good coffee...).
Some other thousands should go to live with Bibi and Sara, and it occurs to me that some especially prone beheaders even could share Jair´s room...The rest, directly for HaKirya...plenty of room there...
The remaining thousands should definitely leave for post-Brexit UK, but not to stay in the streets to terrorize the already terrorized ( by the multiple false flags attacks by these terrorists themselves..) and suffered UK citizens, but should invade and plant their buttocks in Legoland, Buckingham Palace, Balmoral, and whatever the hell it is called Ducks of Sussex´s and Cambridge homes, without forgetting going as well invading Bojo´s and Rees-Mogg´s penthouses and summer dachas, and surely comfortable Farage´s cottage.....
Well this for starters, if you feel I am missing someone, feel free to add more hotels....for the "rebels"...
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 30 2019 21:13 utc | 35
Russia's diplomatic victories continue to pile up. And each one And after that-Latin America. Russia's economy may be suffering, though it is still far better than it was in 2000, but the pain is short term. With Iran and Turkey on board the Eurasian project becomes almost unstoppable. Only India is left which is why the US and Israel are pulling out all the stops to show Modi how much they approve of his increasingly manic, and mystical, Hindu nationalism.
Any experts in the history of diplomacy care to correct the assessment that not since Cavour and Bismark have we seen the like of what Putin has achieved in the past three years?
"I don't believe Syria will ever be the same state it was before the empire fomented the "civil war"." You are right, there, Ben@13, Syria will now be the strongest power in Arabia.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 30 2019 21:50 utc | 36
Correction to the above:
" ...And each one leads to another. Korea and the Gulf are the next obvious candidates for Russian brokered agreements.And after that-Latin America."
Posted by: bevin | Aug 30 2019 21:52 utc | 37
Thanks b for a delightful touch of humour.
The way I read is that Idlib is covered by the ceasefire in the deconflict zones.
Latakia is not Idlib.
Slamming shut the leakage of killers, arms and aid from the Turkish side is a critical and immediate need for the Syrian strategists AND the Russians. Recall that Turkey invited these scum to enter Syria through its land. The sooner this eastern Latakia border zone is recovered and sealed, the better. A ceasefire elsewhere enables concentration on the Latakia cauldron.
The pressure is seriously on Turkey to perform in the balance of the deconflict zones in Idlib or piss off. The Jihadis will be relocated if the yankees can get away with it and will end up in Afghanistan, Balochistan or Libya and perhaps Yemen.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 30 2019 22:13 utc | 38
Sans the women and children in that first photo, this is the type of crowd neded for a SAA atgm attack that has plagued the Syrian army since the rebels were armed with them. It's a wonder they were able to use them being covered in English instructions.
In Arab accent: "Hooked on phonics worked for me and allows to shoot atgm at SAA swarm."
Those rebels who drew on the relatively inexhaustible resources of Turkey and the like are feeling the effects of what it is to be a pawn, fully revealed and destined for the trash bin of history.
Will the American satan be trusted again in the region? Probably not, but who cares because our hegemony there has been broken.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 30 2019 22:17 utc | 39
Not the least of Putin's achievements is the transformation of Turkey from an enemy, downing a Russian plane just four years ago, to an ice-cream eating (and subordinate) ally. Of course the US was a big help with its stupid "diplomats." None of this is being reported in the US press but other countries with more diverse news outlets are taking notice. It's pretty damned impressive.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 30 2019 22:25 utc | 40
#35 bevin
I agree with all your points - especially the high-velocity renaissance of Syria in the near future - but I'd quibble a little with "Russia's economy may be suffering..." because it begs the question: compared with what?
Compared with other economies throughout the world, Russia's appears to be practically the strongest. A great economic report from Jon Hellevig was published today at the Saker on this score:
New World Order in Meltdown, But Russia Stronger Than Ever
Moving on in continued agreement with you, regarding South America there was a great article recently about China's impact on that continent, at Strategic Culture, which is down at this moment, but presumably will come back up:
South American Shockwaves Bring the New Silk Road Into the Americas as Neo-Liberal Order Crumbles — Strategic Culture
One assumes that Russia will ride shotgun over this investment surge by China. Who was it said recently, quoting from a comment made elsewhere, that the S-400 is Russia's foreign policy? I thought that was a wonderful observation. Russia's diplomacy is diamond-quality of course, and I admire it completely. But it was Putin himself who quoted in an interview the old saying that a kind word and a Smith & Wesson will achieve much more than just a kind word alone.
Russian seems to have both, in full measure.
Posted by: Grieved | Aug 30 2019 23:56 utc | 41
Erdogan is too mercurial to be a subordinate ally, but he is reduced to traditional post WWII policy of playing USSR and now Russia against USA/NATO. Basically, Turkey is in NATO, associated with EU etc, but when it goes off-tangent it can always play a Russian card and threaten to deprive USA of much coveted bases etc.
Of course, he IS A TRAITOR to the cause he championed several years ago when he said that he waits to be able to pray in the mosque of Omayyads (in Damascus, presumably, fresh upon the victory of the jihadists). Now the poor recruits are in a situation that I cannot well described in English, in my mother tongue it is "a child ugly, hunchbacked and unwanted". And many people in Turkey, both Arab and Turks, may be plotting the end on Erdogan, they got proper indoctrination, training in marksmanship and explosives, but presumably they are riddled with agents of secret police. Erdogan is a cautious man, replacing his bodyguard when he looses trust in them, so there is a good bet that he will die of natural causes (and in power? here the odds are closer to even).
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 31 2019 0:08 utc | 42
Erdogan's next defeat will see him forced to recognize Bashar Al Assad's victory and seek a deal. The Russians have been pressuring him on that for a while. Now he has shown that he is dumping the 'rebels' who have refused to separate themselves from the Jihadists, the next step will be an opening to the Syrian government. Al Sabah , the voice of the Turkish government affirms that turkey is open to a political deal with syrian but Syria is refusing... It sounds like the time for a form of reconciliation is getting closer. That would solve also the Kurdish problem as turkey, Iran And Syria are in full agreement to reject a Kurdish state. Come on Erdoğan present your apologies to bashar Al assad et Let's move on..
Posted by: Virgile | Aug 31 2019 0:15 utc | 43
I think Lurk and his link @11 is probably correct. The uglyness at the board is likely the start of a repeat of the 'humanitarian disaster' ploy from 12 months ago.
The Russians stole the thunder of this Jihadi ploy by calling a ceasefire. We know that it won't hold. But they can call for a ceasefire again and again to blunt the pleas for humanitarian intervention.
That will work for a time. A short time. I don't think the West will give up Idlib easily. (I've noted several times that Idlib is one of four strategic occupations.)
b: "... Erdogan got an ice-cream"
Putin likely didn't intend to embarrass Erdogan but the ice-cream while Idlib suffers meme will make it more difficult to work with Erdogan.
Erdogan is used to playing both sides. Ultimately, the Russo-Turk alliance may depend on the success of TurkStream (due to be ready at end of year). The USA/West will want to block that just as it wants to block NordStream.
This ain't over. We'll likely see more intense fighting and possibly Jihadi staging of atrocities.
PS And what about the Iranian tanker? Will it be allowed to off-load it's oil (which is almost certainly bound for Syria).
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 31 2019 0:16 utc | 44
And what will the West do about Idlib? More impotent cruise missile strikes? Yes...it is all over but the crying.
Posted by: What did I just read | Aug 31 2019 0:36 utc | 46
Recall how the USAF sorts out a retreating foe. YouTube. Highway of Death. '91 Iraq war.
Posted by: A. Person | Aug 31 2019 0:40 utc | 47
Syria has managed to keep itself.. Yemeni are about to take possession of large and significant portions of Saudia Arabia.. The UK shut down its government, The EU says it wants the nuclear agreement kept in place. Turkey has been turned around and is cautious of Russia.. Iraq is starting to control its own security. Iran to restart its pipeline to the west and Hezbollah has challenged Israel very interesting developments.. today sanctions the Adrian Darya 1 and its captain Don't anyone light a match.. please!
Posted by: snake | Aug 31 2019 0:59 utc | 48
Once Idlib Province is under Syrian government control, the American occupation of Eastern Syria is untenable. The USA will also have to leave Iraq. The Kurds will have to reconcile with Damascus. Otherwise, they will be in the same position as the Sunni radicals are today. The neo-liberal-con regime change campaign to destroy government, end taxes, and seize resources is a failure. Any nation facing similar circumstances now has a proven champion to fight back, Russia. I do not think that it is a coincidence that the predatory Elite are turning their tender ministrations to the United Kingdom and the United States. The Hong Kong riots and the Japan/South Korea estrangement are also part of the backlash of the purposeful spread of chaos across the world in order to make the rich wealthier.
Posted by: VietnamVet | Aug 31 2019 2:13 utc | 49
Grieved@40
I said 'may' because I really didn't know. I suspect that you are right, however.
Interesting times.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 31 2019 2:24 utc | 50
Whenever I see jihadis proclaiming takfir (declaring someone an apostate) I wonder what the Prophet Muhammad would've thought of this. Muhammad explicitly warned against takfir because, as he said, if the one making the pronouncement was wrong, then he himself was guilty of apostasy. But after reading an enormous amount of ISIS and al Qaeda literature (you'd be amazed how much of it is out there), I've come to the conclusion that for jihadis Prophet Muhammad isn't anything more than a convenient rubber stamp anyway.
In any case, it's pretty funny that they trusted Erdo enough to think that he betrayed them. No sane person should ever trust Erdo about anything at all.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | Aug 31 2019 2:41 utc | 51
Another country laid to waste by the Cabal. The damage is done and it will take generations for Syria to recover. Most of the Cabal's goals were met in that they set Syria back a few generations.
Memories run long in the region and their ultra nemesis's hand has been strengthened. They can continue to cry tears of terror over Iran and the weapons and money will keep flowing in from the west.
The strange thing is the old order may be somewhat restored in that the US may end up having to leave Iraq and they may become a Russian client state again. Along with that Iran's hand is strengthened in Iraq.
Counties are smashed, populations laid to waste and the War Party of the hard left and the hard right in the US grinds on. The Trump Tards and those with Trump derangement syndrome all agree on one thing. Keep the War Party going full steam ahead. The US is a mentally ill population programmed by the massive media complex they gulp down in massive doses.
Posted by: dltravers | Aug 31 2019 2:49 utc | 52
Thank you Jackrabbit #43 I suspect that the Putin Assad strategy behind the ceasefire is to give the entire Idlib cauldron time to build up pressure from the internal wrangling and power struggle that will emerge from the southern defeat and the abandonment by Erdoghan.
Following the ice cream Erdy needs to eat some crow and there are now a huge number of angry crows out to peck him to his bones for betraying the Moslem Brotherhood. He will need to swallow them ALL at his home table lest they feast on him. Ask the Armenians what to do as they had some bitter experience of the Ottoman hospitality a century ago. I suspect they would advocate an immediate rebellion or coup or armed assertion of power. Erdy should never have shot that Russian jet down as I can see the Assad Putin team team enjoying a cold dish of revenge right now.
I see this as an excellent strategy because the real dilemma for the 'B' team is that it will be Turkey creating the humanitarian crisis by locking its borders to these 'most deserving' refugees while Assad Putin team simply request these rebels reconcile their differences and resume civilian life in the Syrian democracy. Take a look around everywhere that others have accepted that offer... life is getting back to the new normal, schools opening, hospitals reinstated, trade with Jordan slowly returning.
So the global users and suppliers of these murderous thugs have very little space to occupy on the high ground. Watch for those pesky white helmets to drop a canister through a roof and onto a kiddies cot again.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 31 2019 3:58 utc | 53
The odds that the US might be evicted from Iraq have recently increased. The White House and State Department have endorsed Israel attacks in Iraq despite the Pentagon's objections that endorsing attacks on Iraq has hurt the military effort. Couple that with the Taliban victories in Afghanistan forcing the US out, and Yemen's victory, it's a definite down-grade for US foreign policy based on military force. Fortunately for Washington, nobody talks about it or prints it. There are more important issues! is the trend. Presidential campaign, Biden's misstatements, etc. Idlib is never mentioned in the MSM.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 31 2019 4:04 utc | 54
So, Russian diplomacy trumps Christian Colonial warmongering. Again?
It seems like only 9-and-a-bit years ago that Erdogan was marketing a policy of "No problems with neighbors" and teaming up with Brazil to help Iran to solve its Anglo-Zionist Nuclear problem.
I wonder if he's contemplating a return to the Good Old Days of 2010, or will he decide that back-stabbing and looting a neighbor pays bigger dividend$?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2019 4:48 utc | 55
@50 dltravers "Most of the Cabal's goals were met in that they set Syria back a few generations"
All except the SAA, which might be much smaller than its pre-war size but is infinitely more professional. Think of how many NCO's the Syrian Army now has who have seen it all and know exactly what needs to be done to prevail over a ruthless enemy.
Once the war is over and the Europeans send all those Syrian refugees back home I would think that the first thing Assad will do is draft every single able-bodied man from amongst the returning mob and get his very best NCO's busy whipping them into shape.
The next thing he will do is to let that newly-trained army loose on the Israelis soldiers lounging around the Golan Heights.
The third thing he'll do is send in the Tiger Force and the rest of his *real* army when the IDF launches its inevitable ill-planned counter-attack.
It won't be a fair fight.
The IDF will be lucky if it can retreat with some semblance of order.
More likely it will be a rout and Assad's men will bag the lot of them.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 31 2019 4:49 utc | 56
@ UN Observer with the In Wars and Weapons We Trust link
Thanks for that link but it is not of today but a couple of weeks ago.
Lets also be clear that those weapons and war do not protect Americans but do protect the probably non-American cult of elite that own global private finance including the massive media complex that dltravers was referring to in his comment that keeps most of Americans brainwashed and complacent.
I continue to posit that the world is engaged in WWIII currently about public/private finance and it is a sad comment about our species that this reality is buried under the brainwashing by that same massive media complex. Here we are at the potential end of history of our species and most don't have a clue why or wherefore we war.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 31 2019 4:55 utc | 57
That will work for a time. A short time. I don't think the West will give up Idlib easily. (I've noted several times that Idlib is one of four strategic occupations.)
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 31 2019 0:16 utc | 43
Well...duhhh! Idlib is strategically important for the "West" - no big revelation there! It is also a given that "The West" has not given up anything "easily." But the overriding problem for the "West" has been that it can no longer easily hold on to its ill gotten gains. The ceasefire will work in the short and long term.
Your problem, Jackrabbit, is that you continue to view the "West" as the team holding the initiative. They do not. They are fighting a rearguard action in Syria and everywhere else. Their plans are desperate and at odds with the reality on the ground. All Empires fail - it is the natural law.
Posted by: Activist Potato | Aug 31 2019 6:10 utc | 58
Erdogan was in Moscow to check out the airplanes Russia will sell him and Putin bought him ice cream. After much resistance Erdogan has finally given up on Idleb.
Wow! That must be very good ice-cream they have in Moscow. What happens when Mr Putin buys Trump a Moscow ice-cream?
Posted by: BM | Aug 31 2019 6:18 utc | 59
In a sudden spike, some 600 "immigrants" went for the EU in a flotilla that was let through by the turkish coast guard a couple of days ago. Supposedly they're from Afghanistan.
Posted by: persiflo | Aug 31 2019 7:20 utc | 61
BEWARE
As the Harvard Crimson reported, Ismail Ajjawi alleges that after he arrived at Logan International Airport, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers subjected him to hours of questioning, including about his religious practices. Officers also had him unlock his cell phone and laptop, and took the devices out of his sight for approximately five hours. A CBP officer ultimately confronted Ajjawi about political posts that his friends had made on social media, cancelled his visa, and denied his admission to the United States.
Posted by: OffTopic | Aug 31 2019 8:26 utc | 62
it seems to me that the US empire is in collapse and this will free many countries from that particular yoke, assuming it doesn't go out with a bang. I wonder what happen to all it's overseas military when the whole thing falls apart? Will it look like these 'syrian rebels'?
Posted by: Carlos | Aug 31 2019 9:55 utc | 63
Erdogan can try to block the jihadis from Idleb entering Turkey, but one of many problems is what happens when the jihadis in Afrin, northern Aleppo and the "Euphrates Shield" zone get suspicious of Erdogan's intentions and demand entry into Turkey? It is not so easy for Turkey to cut them off when they are working directly with the Turkish occupation forces.
Posted by: BM | Aug 31 2019 10:06 utc | 64
People shouted "Traitor traitor traitor, Turkish army is traitor". They burned pictures of Erdogan while screaming takfir and allahu akbar.
They were screaming takbir it means declaring the greatness (of Allah)
not "takfir"
Posted by: bilal | Aug 31 2019 10:18 utc | 65
@ UN Observer who wrote in response to my comment about theirs
"
And who said the above article is fresh?
"
UN Observer earlier wrote that I responded to
"
....as vividly described today by retired Air Force lieutenant colonel, historian, and TomDispatch regular William Astore. Tom
"
As I recall, their was a link in some MoA comment a few weeks ago when it came out. You are correct that things haven't changed any since then but your "...as vividly described today..." is still inaccurate.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 31 2019 10:49 utc | 67
There will be more to this story.Erdogan hung these guys out to dry. He worked with the Israelis, the EU and the CIA to bring in terrorists from around the world to massacre Christians in Syria. He wanted to be the leader of the new Caliphate. When it all went wrong him he abandoned the terrorists...the ultimate piece of garbage. Rajiv Gandhi paid the ultimate price for abandoning the Tamil Tigers to be slaughtered. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-26252797 Will this be Erdogan's fate?
Posted by: BlueOrangeandCrimson | Aug 31 2019 11:58 utc | 68
"...600 "immigrants" went for the EU in a flotilla that was let through by the turkish coast guard a couple of days ago. Supposedly they're from Afghanistan."
persiflo @67
The obvious retort to those in Europe whining about the influx of immigrants ('replacing" them on their foetid racist imaginings) is that, like these Afghans, they are forced to come to Europe- a dangerous, unprofitable journey into humiliation and hatred- by the imperialists ruining their homelands.
But it is retort that only a few politicians, opposed on principle to imperialist wars and international capitalism, can make.
The net result being that "liberals" and "social democrats" wring their hands at the 'racist' attitudes of working people suddenly required to make room for foreign competitors in the labour market, while ensuring that millions more-as in Syria, for example, are forced to come too.
Anyone who has ever left his own country and travelled with a few belongings to a foreign land where he knows nobody understands that most migrations are involuntary. And that the unspoken demand of almost all migrants is to stop making their countries dangerous, uninhabitable and stripped of its resources and wealth.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 31 2019 12:39 utc | 69
Suspect the sudden rash of reports in US media of “ISIL” turning up in Afghanistan reflects exactly what an earlier commenter or two wrote: It’s quite easy to suspect the CIA, seeing the futility of preserving its motley forces in Syria, has tried moving the mercenaries eastward by some means or other to a spot where it still has some small purchase. Never mind that the media’s term “ISIL” refers to the Levant, a geographical area nowhere near South Asia. That’s a sort of admission that these forces—to the extent they even exist—are a foreign admixture in that caldron of resistance. Of course, if your further thought is to move them on to Xinjiang later, as you lose your failing grip on Afghanistan, it does make a sort of reactionary sense as a travel itinerary. Have to think of Mao’s dictum, “Make trouble. Make trouble again until their doom. That is the logic of reactionaries and they will never go against this logic.”
Posted by: Lonl | Aug 31 2019 13:31 utc | 70
bevin,
"Anyone who has ever left his own country and travelled with a few belongings to a foreign land where he knows nobody understands"
Well, I have done that with my girlfriend / now wife, numerous times...sometimes hitching a lift in North Africa and Turkey, and sometimes asking a guy in the depths of India (very remote Kerala) if he can take us in his canoe, which admittedly did have an outboard motor.
We have always experienced the most ultimate kindness and acceptance and invitations into the homes of some of poorest people in the world. My wife and I simply smile, gesture, learn a little of their language, whilst they learn a little of ours. At the end of the day, the vast majority of humans beings are all the same all over the world.
It is important to travel and continue to experience it.
Most people are nice.
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Aug 31 2019 13:40 utc | 71
The Turks were believed to be the source of the resistance supply of ATGMs by all accounts.
This article bears that out stating that ATGM attacks became more & more frequent from June onwards possibly 150 attacks in total, but since the Turks ate ice cream then pulled the pin, ATGM attacks have ceased - most likely because Turkey isn't coming across any more.
If Turkey does manage to sever all arms vectors this way cannot go on much longer especially if the shit-stirrers are all modern like and maintain Just In Time Inventories.
The blue may yet just die out with a whimper if they run outta bullets - maybe they can check out what life is really like for Palestinians when the other side has all manner of tech innovation and all you have is a few stones for your slingshot. Maybe they'll learn something about who is the real enemy.
Posted by: A User | Aug 31 2019 13:49 utc | 72
The Turks were believed to be the source of the resistance supply of ATGMs by all accounts.
This article bears that out stating that ATGM attacks became more & more frequent from June onwards possibly 150 attacks in total, but since the Turks ate ice cream then pulled the pin, ATGM attacks have ceased - most likely because Turkey isn't coming across any more.
If Turkey does manage to sever all arms vectors this way cannot go on much longer especially if the shit-stirrers are all modern like and maintain Just In Time Inventories.
The blue may yet just die out with a whimper if they run outta bullets - maybe they can check out what life is really like for Palestinians when the other side has all manner of tech innovation and all you have is a few stones for your slingshot. Maybe they'll learn something about who is the real enemy.
Posted by: A User | Aug 31 2019 13:49 utc | 73
tony
they give you food, that you can leave them and not to burden them with your imperialistic son of a bitch mentality.
Posted by: az | Aug 31 2019 14:01 utc | 74
Erdogan summed it up succinctly, recently --
“It would be a lie if we would suggest that developments in regards to Idlib are as desired. They are not the way we want,” Erdoğan told reporters on Aug 30. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Aug 31 2019 14:46 utc | 75
...
Most people are nice.
Tony
Posted by: tonyopmoc | Aug 31 2019 13:40 utc | 77
Old anecdote...
~50 years ago a mate invited me to a Lions Club meeting which was to be addressed by a globetrotting Lion adventurer. He'd returned from a low-budget trip to India. He reported feeling completely overwhelmed by the inescapable crush of humanity in the streets Delhi.
During an overnight train trip in a crowded cattle-car, he regretted being in such a rush to catch the train that he hadn't brought food but was resigned to compensating for the error by having a hearty meal the next day. The Indian passengers were peasants. When dinner time came around the other passengers, noticing he had no food, insisted that he shared theirs because they couldn't/ wouldn't eat while he went hungry. And they thanked him for sharing their meal...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 31 2019 15:13 utc | 76
Somebody get an ice cream cone for those moderate headchoppers and pro-democracy jihadists.
The butthurt in them is strong!
Don't worry, however.
There may be a future for them in America or Britain, where they love to fawn over such useful terrorist proxies, as seen in how the Americans and British have pimped for the White Helmets, the jihadist humanitarian group.
Posted by: AK74 | Aug 31 2019 15:45 utc | 77
@ bevin #75 with a comment that needs repeating
"
The obvious retort to those in Europe whining about the influx of immigrants ('replacing" them on their foetid racist imaginings) is that, like these Afghans, they are forced to come to Europe- a dangerous, unprofitable journey into humiliation and hatred- by the imperialists ruining their homelands.
But it is retort that only a few politicians, opposed on principle to imperialist wars and international capitalism, can make.
The net result being that "liberals" and "social democrats" wring their hands at the 'racist' attitudes of working people suddenly required to make room for foreign competitors in the labour market, while ensuring that millions more-as in Syria, for example, are forced to come too.
Anyone who has ever left his own country and travelled with a few belongings to a foreign land where he knows nobody understands that most migrations are involuntary. And that the unspoken demand of almost all migrants is to stop making their countries dangerous, uninhabitable and stripped of its resources and wealth.
"
Thank you for the clear description of this strategy of anti-humanistic empire.....these folks are not on holiday as Tony above would have us think.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 31 2019 15:53 utc | 78
@77 tony.. there is a difference in traveling freely on your own and having to leave a country because western societies are bombing the shit out of your country turning it into a war zone... sure, most people are nice... tell that to the mf@ker leaders from the western countries that continue to bomb and make war in faraway places - usa-uk in particular - guilty as charged...
ditto @84 pscyhohistorians comment.. thanks bevin..
Posted by: james | Aug 31 2019 17:00 utc | 79
Ahh, those poor moderate rebels. But where is the US MSM on this? One would think they would be promoting the story (propaganda). And what of the White Helmets? They were hanging out with the "moderates" (aka HTS, aka terrorists). The story served the useful purpose of destroying Syria (like Libya) or coming close to it. Another fiasco whose aftermath will not be emphasized because Team Obama initiated the actions. (GOP mis-actions take a bit longer for the MSM to drop.)
Posted by: Curtis | Aug 31 2019 20:57 utc | 80
#86@Curtis:
Even if the US MSM is neglecting the "moderate rebels" in Idlib, the BBC is still deeply concerned about them, and all of their able-bodied male "civilian" friends.
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Aug 31 2019 23:56 utc | 81
In this article about 650 migrants arriving within one hour on the isle of Lesbos,the link is laid with Idlib,whereas in most reports they allegedly come from Afghanistan.
Maybe Erdogan and Putin agreed to flooding the European Union with the residues of their proxies?
Posted by: willie | Sep 1 2019 10:48 utc | 82
In other news:
Al Jazeera.
"Taliban deal would see US troops 'withdraw from five bases'"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/taliban-deal-troops-withdraw-bases-190902151734211.html
"He met Afghan President Ashraf Ghani on Monday and SHOWED him the draft of a proposed agreement."
"So far, the Afghan government has been shut out of the negotiations as the Taliban dismisses it as a "puppet" of the US, but intra-Afghan talks that include the government are meant to follow a US-Taliban deal."
"as well as broader peace talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government and an EVENTUAL ceasefire."
My emphasis. So... excuse my highjacking but...
Vietnam 2.0 is going well. I mean is it just me? It's like an ugly rerun and we know how the movie ends.
Is the trip from Syria via helicopter or airline? Just kidding. I don't think a warm welcome would ensue but who knows.
Posted by: David G. Horsman | Sep 2 2019 21:48 utc | 83
Hi NemesisCalling | Aug 30 2019 22:17 utc | 39
'In Arab accent: "Hooked on phonics worked for me and allows to shoot atgm at SAA swarm."'
I must object this sounds patronising...
Why it's all about International English these days. Universal or Basic English is also fine but well phonics? How passe.
Although overly large, we have printed up some handy stickers. We have esparnto ones on backorder.
Here's a taste just to wet your whistle:
"Put the heavy round black thing in the circle end of the gray tube thing. Turn the blue metal flat thing. A red light goes on and then goes off..."
It's so easy a UN peace keeper could do it. We did offer Arabic services but the Turks beat us to it.
We do however see an English language market given most North Americans can't operate a thermostat.
Kndest regards.
Posted by: David G. Horsman | Sep 2 2019 22:06 utc | 84
The comments to this entry are closed.
Historically, this is the typical treatment for traitors and mercenaries, when the "wind change" they are left behind. The so called Syrian rebels, which there is nothing from rebels, only foreign & local terrorists and traitors, deserve nothing else but to be homeless in the countries that supported them, there is simply no room in Syria for Muslin Brotherhood terrorists and traitors.
These filthy must know there will be no paradise for them on earth, not in Syria and not within the turkish regime that backed their many crimes.
Should they flee the SAA then let the turkish regime be bitten back by the very same poisonous snake they helped to create. No sympathy for any side here, terrorists or terrorists' supporters, may they all find a warm place in hell.
Posted by: Canthama | Aug 30 2019 17:26 utc | 1