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August 22, 2019

Open Thread 2019-49


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Posted by b on August 22, 2019 at 17:30 UTC | Permalink

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HSBC at a crossroads as Huawei issue remains, Hong Kong unrest continues

Dong Shaopeng, an advisor for the China Securities Regulatory Commission, told the Global Times on Monday that the consecutive changes at HSBC's executive level are likely related to the arrest of Huawei's CFO Meng Wanzhou in Canada.

The bank has helped lead US charges against Huawei, as it was attempting to convince the US Department of Justice (DOJ) to dismiss criminal charges for the bank's own misconduct involving US sanctions, Reuters reported in February.

A source close to the matter told the Global Times previously that the manner in which HSBC helped the DOJ acquire documents against Huawei was unethical, as the bank gave out its clients' confidential information in pursuit of its own interests.

HSBC's assistance with the US prosecutors' charge against Huawei, which has far exceeded its normal business sphere, has proved the company's obedience to US hegemony or so-called "long-arm jurisdiction," according to Dong, who added that the issue has harmed HSBC's integrity and morality.


About 80 percent of HSBC's earnings come from Asia, and Hong Kong alone provides the bank with about half of its pretax profits, according to a Bloomberg report.

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2019 17:49 utc | 101

He says that because he understood and used Marxist Theory he was able to make big bucks off the silly Capitalists, who it seems, decide matters on some non-rational basis. The implied but unstated quality is that a Marxist bound to live in a Capitalist Sea is ethically obliged to take their money away from them, thus hastening the days of their self-destruction.

Seems to be working, eh?

See YT interviews, he's quite frank, proud. I'd be too.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 23 2019 17:50 utc | 102

Does anyone know what happened to “The Ugly Truth” ( blog, by Mark Glenn (I think, never paid attention). It seems to have disappeared along with any recent mentions of it, or of it’s owner.

Posted by: Tod | Aug 23 2019 17:54 utc | 103

Hongkongers form human chains across the city to voice demands to government

First time was a tragedy; now it's time for the farce.

Posted by: vk | Aug 23 2019 18:15 utc | 104

AshenLight @99--

Hudson sees himself as a rejuvenator of the School of Classical Political-Economics of which Marx was one of the last. In his autobiographical interview, Hudson says "I was a Trotskyist" in high school, the school being a special wing of the University of Chicago aimed at educating students deemed gifted such as Carl Sagan and his first wife Lynn Margulis. More from high school days:

"I like being hated by the right wing because it made me a lot of friends and so while the Stalinist called me a fascist and the fascists called me a communist I recruited many members into the socialist youth groups in Chicago....

"My interest was music at that time and I studied piano and basically studied to be a conductor.

"When I graduated in 1959 from the University of Chicago where my degree was in Germanic philology and history of culture but while I was there I was also studying full-time music primarily the series of Heinrich Schenker the German music theorist. In 1960 when Leon Trotsky’s widow Natalia died, the executor of his estate Max Schachtman assigned me the copyrights, saying that since I was Trotsky’s godson, I should do a publishing company. So I wrote. I’d had a correspondence with György Lukács, the Hungarian literary critic and he gave me his copyrights and I came to New York, thinking that I would start a publishing company while I studied conducting with Dimitri Mitropoulos, who was the conductor of the New York Philharmonic.

"Then, an event happened that changed my life. My best friend growing up was Gavin MacFadyen. You may know him as a famous documentary film maker and founder in London of the Centre for Investigative Journalism. He had introduced me to Terence McCarthy who was an Irish communist and was the translator of Marx’s Theories of Surplus Value. In one evening we talked about changes in the water level in America. The sunspot cycle and the water level would go up and down, causing a crop failure that would lead to an autumnal drain of money from the stock and bond market, causing a periodic financial crisis. To me, that was so beautiful, so aesthetic, that I decided on the spot to become an economist and Terence said that he would become my mentor if I would read all of the bibliography of Marx’s Theories of Surplus Value.

"So that’s how I came to meet most of the rare economics book dealers in New York City. I ended up working for Augustus Kelley part time as an editor and writing introductions to some of the reprints of economic classics that he published. In exchange for writing introductions, he would give me books. I had a very large library of books, including many American protectionist writers, many economists that are missing from the normal history of economic thought."
[My Emphasis]

So Hudson became an accidental political-economist well steeped in Socialism and Marx's works. The rest of his story's just as amazing. When I read this interview the first time I thought his story really needs to be more fully recorded and published, for as you read above, Hudson's quite a unique person having led a very unique life.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 18:23 utc | 105

Formerly T-Bear @100--

Prior to writing 60, I'd been reading a lot of material on Hudson's site for the first, second + times and was about to provide a What Must Be Done list of my own, when I happened upon Hudson's at the end of an essay being read for the first time--the one he wrote for the benefit of China's leaders on the 100th anniversary of Russia's October 1917 Revolution. Knowing who the intended audience was for his advice IMO is paramount as it was also a clear warning as to the direction being taken.

Like us, Hudson's age is causing him to become shaper in his judgments and their delivery. Like us he sees the drastic unwholesomeness of the overall situation; but unlike the vast multitude, he knows the reasons why the current state-of-affairs exists. So, he does what he can to tell as many who'll listen about his analysis. In the interviews, the quality of the questioner is very important since the proper questions need to be asked, not ones that are unimportant. He doesn't look it, but Hudson's 80 years-old. I hope I live to his age, but I know I won't be as well versed in the areas of his studies because I began decades later in life than he. So, yes, I probably do lean on him too much as a crutch for my lack of knowledge. I've looked for other crutches, but most are not satisfactory as they're now dead.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 18:59 utc | 106

Erdoğan will meet Putin on August 27 at the MAKS airshow in Moscow oblast. A proper mix of Su-34/Su-35/Su-57 makes much more sense for financially weakened Turkey than the expensive F-35.

Posted by: S | Aug 23 2019 19:22 utc | 107

@ karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 18:59 utc | 106

Don't frighten me so, I'm 3·5 years from 80 myself, what a future to look forward to - curmudgeon? You have of course read Steve Keen who I find to be somewhat superior in being less reliant on neoliberal vocabulary and structures - he's deconstructed almost all he encountered. Whereas Dr. Hudson from UMKC is surrounded by a highly conservative social structure and has a tendency to be coloured by his surroundings; one cannot avoid such influences. That he has retained his heterogeneous economic outlooks says a lot towards the validity of his position and the weakness of neoliberal economic theology. In all, once I can find some corroborating contemporaneous narrative, I tend to take what might be an opinion under advisement until some satisfaction appears. I don't think an algorithm exists that can differentiate between a historic opinion and an opinion of history, that is what libraries are for.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 23 2019 19:30 utc | 108

@104 Straight out of the Little Red Book of Mao. Last time I was in Hong Kong I bought a statue of the Chairman. Wonder if they still sell them?

Posted by: dh | Aug 23 2019 19:56 utc | 109

Formerly T-Bear @108--

Did you know Keen interviewed Hudson? I'm just about half-way through the transcript of a most fantastic conversation! The history itself is very educational--like who and how changed Japan from its feudal order into the industrial giant that was able to defeat Russia in 1905 and challenge Germany and the USA a few decades later--stuff both Keen and Hudson agree were written out of the history books. I broke away so I could post the link to the interview; now I'm going back to finish!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 20:34 utc | 110

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 18:23 utc | 105

Thank you, very interesting. Certainly his background is not that of a typical economist (which is probably why he makes so much more sense).

Posted by: AshenLight | Aug 23 2019 21:25 utc | 111

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 2 2019 18:21 utc 17

So much fun to read the original sources, amazing that this is laid out so clearly and a matter of historic record.

Thank you immensely for linking directly to the 1948 [US] Foreign Policy paper by George Kennan. I'm only partway through it and already he has covered Niels Bohr's prediction that the Soviets will have the atomic bomb within 18 months, that the US should strive to generate a "European union" that includes both Great Britain and the then-divided Germany, and now I am entering the section about Palestine and the Middle East. A quote is in order:

page 520 George Kennan Foreign Relations 1948

"2. The direction of our own policy.
The pressures to which this Government is now subjected are ones which impel us toward a position where we would shoulder major responsibility for the maintenance, and even the expansion, of a Jewish state in Palestine. To the extent that we move in this direction, we will be operating directly counter to our major security interest in that area. For this reason, our policy in the Palestine issue should be dominated by the determination to avoid being impelled along this path."

I would note that Kennan then refers to the inadvisability sending US troops to the area, perhaps to refine the statement that the US not "shoulder major responsibility for the maintenance, and even the expansion, of a Jewish state in Palestine".

Who knew history was this interesting, thanks (50 years too late), karlof1!

Posted by: jonku | Aug 23 2019 21:59 utc | 112

re: Michael Hudson--Besides his study and analysis, there is the fact of his being 1st-person witness to many key events, thus having topmost credibility.

E.g. the firing of Alan Greenspan in the 60s; the direct confirmation by key Standard Oil execs of how S.O. manipulated profits using Panama to avoid taxes; discovering first-hand how US banking maximized loan-income in South America w/o regard to negative effects on the well-being of countries.

In my humbled opinion, he discerns and comprehends so exceedingly well that his writing is really a forensic history, as done by a trained forensic investigator. That is rare.

[I still want to find/read an English translation of the Rosetta Stone text re Hudson's revelation of Jubilee Year]

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 23 2019 22:34 utc | 113

jonku @112 & AshenLight @111--

Thanks for your replies! Yes, jonku, what's hidden in plain sight within the FRUS series is simply astounding as you're discovering. As I wrote @106, I wish I'd started my studies earlier in life, although I wasn't nearly as good a student or analyst then.

AshenLight, I see you've very recently begun commenting at our bar, so welcome. You thus likely missed my note awhile ago that Hudson has made the second edition of his seminal work Super Imperialism available in PDF freely through his website. The interview with Keen linked @110 is also very informative if lengthy.

Hudson was made permanent Guest Professor at Peking University in 2015 and has visited to lecture there every year since, his lectures being more of an attempt to educate and warn China not to fall into the traps of what I term Financialism that are actually quite old. "The Paradox of Financialized Industrialization" illustrates those multiple perils quite well. It's possible to see Hudson's hand in the White Paper China developed and published last June to deal with Trump's Trade War. Hudson's hand is also visible in the direction Russia's taking to wean itself of the neoliberalism that was forced onto it by following China's lead now that they're effectively symbiotically combined. I think the message Keen and Hudson jointly provide in their interview about not wasting your money going to a "prestige" university to be falsely indoctrinated one of its best takeaways.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 22:44 utc | 114

chu the @113--

Perhaps your looking for a site like this that provides translation by sections.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 23:06 utc | 115

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 22:44 utc | 114

Thanks! I'm not actually brand new; used to post sporadically as just "Ash" until I realized there was another poster using the same handle (I'm not the one from London, but rather Cascadia). I'm a man of science rather than business or finance, but I know quality analysis when I see it, and am familiar with Hudson's last three books. I do have the Super-Imperialism PDF but would prefer to replace it with an actual book, and only haven't already because its current value in the secondhand market is around $40, a lot higher than you'd expect for a 50 year old title.

Posted by: AshenLight | Aug 23 2019 23:31 utc | 116


When you say Hudson has warned China against the dangers of financialisation he is not issuing abstract recommendations. China's rapid expansion through the developmental or emerging phase of capitalism and into the second global economic superpower has in fact witnessed the concomitant rise of financialisation. This is what spurs Hudson's warning to his host employers.

Chinese banks are among the world's biggest corporations, an increasing amount of Chinese personal wealth is tied to overly inflated urban real estate assets (much like in the developed nations) and a vast, fast growing amount of Chinese GDP is fed by corporate debt-induced investment projects, many of them in high priced real estate development.

Hudson's warnings against financialisation stem from the fact China's economy is in fact rapidly financialising.

An intellectually honest debate would include and not sugar coat nor ignore important critical analysis of this historical development in China which concurs with the development of all prior higher stage capitalist economies, a fact first noticed by Lenin in 1916

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 0:29 utc | 117

Utterly Amazing! Trump: US Companies Move Home Or Else! Then markets drop @2% Imagine they'll drop more Monday. Trump also continues to attack the Fed Chair:

"My only question is who is our bigger enemy, Jay Powell or Chairmen Xi," Trump tweeted.

Will Trump sanction USA-based corps to force them to relocate? One thing's certain, the pundits will be squawking loudly!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 0:32 utc | 118

Below is a link to a ZH article from the latest Jackson Hole gathering of financial perps that seems like the perps are trying to get ahead of the train and call it a parade

In Unprecedented, Shocking Proposal, BOE's Mark Carney Urges Replacing Dollar With Libra-Like Reserve Currency

I am not in favor of any privately provided form of money/finance tools. I believe that should and maybe soon will be the spawn of totally sovereign countries.

The take away quote
Of course, such a new system would bring about the end of US hegemony, and effectively end the dollar-based global financial system, dramatically scaling back the US's influence in the global economy, and making rising powers like China and Russia critical players an increasingly multipolar world.... especially if they propose a gold-backed dollar alternative to the world.
I predicted we would be here about now 10 years ago when I was a regular commenter at Almost Naked Capitalism.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 0:32 utc | 119

AshenLight @116--

Thanks for your reply! I hadn't looked at that book's used price for awhile. I buy my books through this site where it's listed from $23+, and my 1st edition's over $130! Crazy! What portion of Cascadia? I'm at Yachats, Oregon.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 0:40 utc | 120

Let me add to my comment # 119

Libra-like money is FIAT money/debt that depends on Faith for its "intrinsic" value

Would you rather have a specie of Libra from Mr. Facebook or specie from China/Russia et al that has a "precious metal" component to its intrinsic value?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 0:41 utc | 121

psychohistorian @119--

Interesting the difference between that report and Sputnik's:

"A digital currency backed by a group of nations is needed to compete with the US dollar, which has reached a level of dominance that poses a barrier to economic growth in much of the world, Bank of England Governor Mark Carney said in a speech to fellow central bankers on Friday."

He focused on the impact on international trade:

"'If the share of trade invoiced in SHC [Synthetic Hegemonic Currency] were to rise, shocks in the US would have less potent spillovers through exchange rates, and trade would become less synchronized across countries,' Carney said."

Looking to get away from the vacuum US Debt Deflation will exert internationally when the next crisis hits. I disagree with the first citation as it's not the US Dollar pre se, it's the dollarized financial settlement system that's inhibiting growth as that's the mechanism for sanctions application.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 0:57 utc | 122

Thank you, karlof1 for your succinct explanations of Prof. Hudson's works. I admire him greatly, and because I also very much love Plato, who is very much misunderstood these days, I consider Prof. Hudson to be our modern Socratic teacher, in the very best sense of that word.

Prof. Hudson went his way, as you explain by repeaating the essence of his biography, as a maverick with respect to the status quo in economics, basically because he came to that field after amassing important life experiences. His gift, I really think is that he can cut to the chase, when it comes to discussing what is really happening in the world today (which most of us dimly see is not good) and relating it to the best theories of economics that have been brought forward at critical times by economists of the past. They did so based on their experiences and what was happening to their worlds, and the best of them could explain what they saw in ways that even uneducated persons could understand.

Sometimes, though, to explain to the powerful those ideas can be fraught with danger. And that's where I draw the Socratic comparison. People with power want to keep it - and you won't understand Plato unless you see that Socrates is his hero, but he, Plato, lives in a world run by oligarchs. His dialogues are thusly circuitous exercises in independent thought.

We are fortunate to have Professor Hudson in our midst. He is a great American.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 24 2019 1:09 utc | 123

pat lang at sst finally acknowledging how fucked in the head the usa is... finally... he has knowingly, or unknowingly contributed to it with all the rampant neo con bullshit, commie in my underwear and etc. etc. stupidity...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2019 1:16 utc | 124

donkeytale @117--

Hudson addressed the Chinese and their housing situation during his 2018 visit in this paper that was then followed by this stateside interview upon his return.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 1:18 utc | 125

juliania @123--

Thanks very much for your reply! I hope you find the time to read the Keen-Hudson Interview I linked to upthread as it's as revelatory as his autobio interview. Time for me to morph into Chef!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 1:22 utc | 126

re karlof1 | Aug 23 2019 23:06 utc
Wow and thanks ur instant response for translation site. Will start tonight.

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 24 2019 1:49 utc | 127

@ karlof1 with the response to my link and comments about BOE Carney's comments about a Libra-like Reserve Currency

Thanks for the Sputnik link and for all that you add to MoA

I read a Reuters version of Carney's remarks and they wrote something about countries adding 3 trillion to the IMF coffers and they would provide such a Libra-like Reserve Currency.

I continue to find it interesting that none talk about the core of this situation, faith based fiat finance or totally sovereign controlled public finance and associated specie. I am quite sure that China looks at the issue as I have described because that is why we are in WWIII and the winner(s) get to say who controls global finance and specie going forward.

The masses of West are suppose to continue to have faith that the private central bank folks are "doing God's work"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 2:11 utc | 128


Thank you. Im aware of Hudson's warning China against rentierism and debt deflation which broadly means as debt takes on limitless growth it crowds out production and demand for goods among consumers, businesses and nations,leading eventually to weakening demand, falling prices and recession.

Hudson also acknowledges Marx's mistaken optimism during his time that industrial capitalism would always remain in control of financial capitalism, which faulty idea was corrected in Lenin's Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism.

While China has commendably avoided or at least delayed many of the excesses and shocks of western capitalism to date this is more due to the upside potential for growth based on exploitation of its working class in the second stage of development. In some ways this stage is similar to the western working classes post WWII. The rising tide lifted all boats because of decades of pent up demand being released and satisfied...until it didn't any longer as globalisation won political favour and shifted capital to exploit cheaper sources of labour elsewhere. This process is an inevitable result of globslisation as I see it and China is not immune from these same forces as a fully intertwined globised economy.

While western workers suffered the workers in developing nations gained wealth heretofore unrealised in various underdeveloped parts of the globe including obviously China.

And of course a side effect of this surge in global economic growth is the also inevitable environmental degradation to go with the degraded circumstances of the western working classes from their prior status.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 2:52 utc | 129

And further along this meme of Libra-specie from Facebook and those aghast at the China Social merit system there is this posting link from The Register below

Don't trust Facebook's Libra cryptocurrency, boffins warn: Zuck & Co know that hash is king (It's not about the money, it's about the identifiers)

The take away quote
Facebook has positioned Libra as solely a financial endeavor, but the project has implications in every aspect of civil and social life where reputation matters, the academics argue. Digital identity currently tends to be fragmented, distributed across different websites and embodied by separate sets of login names, HTTP cookies, and tokens.

Advertising and data companies like Facebook strive to unite these identities to track people across websites by correlating different data, though such efforts can be undermined by technological countermeasures and actions taken in the pursuit of privacy. Libra, or more specifically Calibra – the wallet tied to the individual – represents a way for Facebook to dissolve public and private boundaries to create "transparent citizens."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 3:31 utc | 130

@110 karlof1

I broke away from reading the transcript to drop a line saying thanks for the link to the Steve Keen and Michael Hudson discussion. It's an amazing conversation, and I'm heading back there now.

Thanks again!

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 24 2019 3:33 utc | 131

@ karlof1 #110 with the Steve Keen/Michael Hudson interview from 2016

Thanks for that. I am glad they had a transcript of the interview so I could ingest it at my own pace.

It was a fascinating interview but left me wanting a different ending which was
So we’re common on the modern debt jubilee?

Yes, we’re common.

Sounds good. Let’s go have dinner then.
Maybe it is why they are both still alive but a debt jubilee leaves the same financial predators in control to repeat the process which they admit and talk about in the discussion but don't end up there....which is what I keep wanting folks at their level of public exposure to hammer on like I do.

I am happy to believe that China is not about debt forgiveness but public finance which is, to me, the underlying reason for the WWIII "friction" we are seeing.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 4:45 utc | 132

Thanks for the many replies! I'll be time-traveling tomorrow as I'm taking partner and her progeny to experience our State Fair--and they've never been to a fair of any sort, state or county, although they've been to theme parks and know what a Midway is. I've always enjoyed the animals, smell and all; Grange displays; and technological exhibits far more than the rides and fair food.

Hudson provides us with a ton of context but not a lot of policy proposals. No how do we get from here to there given the differing factions/adversaries. It seems that job's up to us, and it will differ within every nation. Luckily, there's only one Trump.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 24 2019 6:09 utc | 133

Let see what happens with the super tanker in the Mediterranean. The US is making noises that make it sound like the US intends to grab that vessel. It's high time that Russia and China speak up about this, making it clear that such a seisure won't be tolerated and that non-UN sanctions do not have global legitimacy. Will they do this? No. What is more likely is that they might press Iran very hard to surrender the oil in some way or another, to definitely not take it to Syria.
Posted by: paul | Aug 23 2019 14:05 utc | 88

It's easy to forget that Russia and China usually do speak up on issues blustered about by bombastic US spox via their Fake News Media megaphone. But they do so through established Diplomatic Channels. The fact that they rarely make loud public statements about these 'private' conversations/ disagreements can be attributed to self-respect and respect for the principles of diplomacy and privacy.

One of the many fascinating aspects of Oliver Stone's Putin Interviews is that Putin was asked for Russia's official opinion on several contentious issues about which We In The West have been kept in the dark - especially in regard to formal and informal treaties and agreements re arms control etc. The beauty of Putin's answers is that they make a lot more sense than the AmeriKKKan version of the same events.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 24 2019 7:02 utc | 134

The beauty of Putin's answers is that they make a lot more sense than the AmeriKKKan version of the same events.

got link? please excuse me if it's already in the thread,

Posted by: annie | Aug 24 2019 7:34 utc | 135

How often did we see journalists from famous banking families claim that money and power turn the elite into a bunch of psychopaths?

(link to ft article behind pay wall but it worked on a phone
and how often do we see journalists confess they have failed both the victims and the public?

What remains is Acosta claim, that the guy belonged to 'intelligence' but that has not been much investigated by the MSM, as expected.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 24 2019 8:30 utc | 136

How long will BoJo remain in function?
Apparently he is trying hard to get to Trump levels of insanity

Posted by: Mina | Aug 24 2019 8:32 utc | 137

Some images worth thousands words on the current G7 Summit, its fake purposes, and its exagerate security measures for what it really matters...

Biarrtiz under military siege...

What the summit will be about....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 9:22 utc | 138

@ Lurk | Aug 22 2019 21:29 utc | 81 | MoA - Anti-China Cult Gets …

Your several comments about the subject of wikipedia should have a reply. On consideration, the best likely one would be this:

When a manuscript is deemed of sufficient quality to print, which includes a consideration that a profit might happen, the author's name is presented as the one responsible for those contents.

No so wikipedia where the author remains unknown. This is likely the source, genesis of the site's name - wiki - referring to a people's reference collection. As with democracy, there are no barriers presented to entering whatever knowledge the writer has. This is the basis of your distrust of wikipedia, but if you go there expecting responsibility of anonymous authors it is you that becomes the foolish one sadly enough.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 10:06 utc | 139

Marching on counter G7 Summit demonstration through Hendaye Port and Bay...People, in a quite joyfull and peaceful way are holding their banners with their demands, including some Congolese denouncing and asking France to recognize genocide by Kagame...also Palestine banners are seen, along with shouts about that anybody is illegal in this world ( on support of the migrants right to live..)are being heard...

The Basques, while holding a banner saying "Beste Mundua Dakartgu Bihotzean" ( "Another world we carry in our hearts" ) are chanting:

-Gezartiak, ez hemen, ez inon! ( Liars, no here, no where! )
-Gezartiak pikutara! ( Liars to f*** off! )
-Gezartiak uretara, sutara! ( With liars to the water, to the fire! )

All this in the middle of the August canicle, in one of the hottests days of this, quite cold for the rest, summer

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 10:20 utc | 140

In the surroundings of Hendaye Rail Station, a group of Zanpantzar ( Ancient Basque Carnival personages..),with their fur vests and energically moving their huge cowbells placed in the low back ( a quite brave thing to do in a around 35ºC midday...) have joined the head of the demonstration, adding ( if it was needed...) more joy and encouragement...At the heights of Hendaye Station, they have made a stop for the world press concentrated there, so that everybody and their dogs could read the frontbanner of the crowded demonstration saying "Euskal Herritik beste mundua sortzen" ( "Another world is born from Euskal Herria" )...

Man these Basques really know how to demonstrate!

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 10:46 utc | 141

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 10:06 utc | 139

"This is likely the source, genesis of the site's name - wiki - referring to a people's reference collection. As with democracy, there are no barriers presented to entering whatever knowledge the writer has."

I heard it's no longer like that, they no longer let just anyone edit a page, but rather one has to be vetted and authorized by the moderators before one can contribute. Evidently there was too much democracy for what is after all a corporate media site.

Of course the notion that democracy itself lacks barriers is one of the basic lies of "democracy". But as we know all too well, freedom of the press is for those with enough money to own one. That's just one of the many de facto barriers.

Posted by: Russ | Aug 24 2019 10:53 utc | 142

At the negotiated final point of the demonstration at FICOBA ( fairground in Irun, now already Spain actually, once passing Santiago Bridge..) Txalaparta sound is filling the ambiance...while the demosntrators go arriving...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 10:59 utc | 143

@ Russ | Aug 24 2019 10:53 utc | 142

My point was: Information from a book you know who was responsible; information gleaned from wikipedia (or any other electronic means for that matter, youtube included) has no guarantee equalling a book, you takes your chances. All the additional verbiage was to avoid making a spiffy one liner. I try to use as precise a word as I can think of and am very, very careful about that and say precisely what I intend to say. I am not responsible for muddled reading skills; shoulders are not that broad.

The problem with democracy is it has no barriers, citizenship becomes a factor of the lowest common denominator.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 13:15 utc | 144

Gorrection @ #144

that last line should read: The problem with democracy having universal suffrage is …

My Bad, Thanks

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 13:20 utc | 145

karlof1 says:

No[w] how do we get from here to there given the differing factions/adversaries

i suppose we'll figure that out when the sky is full of suns(too late), or when it's too hot in the latitude, or when there's no more food on the table. yes, we're primitive that way. and anyhoo, people don't change, they just adapt, or not, and as such, natural selection will be a determinant(i'm waiting for a benevolent dictator).

so enough already with the what can we do rune. other than nurturing your own spirit and keeping your nose clean, there's really nothing more to do to alter the status in quo. and anyway, once you've subtracted the time necessary to attend to life's exigencies, and then subtracted all that time spent online, there's not much left, right?

that is, until the day comes when all the time in the world is over.

Posted by: john | Aug 24 2019 13:41 utc | 146

Hudson provides us with a ton of context but not a lot of policy proposals. No how do we get from here to there given the differing factions/adversaries. It seems that job's up to us, and it will differ within every nation. Luckily, there's only one Trump.

Well, there is more than one Trump, just differing within many nations. Trump himself has rendered enough damage on one the main parties to make it fervently unrepresentative of the people going forward who are excluded by race, culture and language (yes Trumpism is the ultimate identity politics) who don't resemble their greying white skins, or speak a different language, attend a different church. This walled-in ideology will not die with Trump. It will require political reform within the GOP to change and frankly I don't see that possibility as much as the next demogague to come along and grab the support of the deplorables plus those wealthy elites with their massively uncontrolled funding.

And let's face facts here, the neocon/neoliberals control the media message true, but they also overwhelmingly control the alt media and social media messages too.

I often hear it said Trump is merely a symptom not the disease. But this distinction makes no difference for the symptom is inextricably a feature of the disease and as the disease progresses, the symptoms worsen.

I am right there with you on Hudson. He's a populariser and an explainer of cpomplex ideas par excellence but an organised, motivated people need to come together with the idea to make change happen against the monied elites. For this requires ideas, popular language around those ideas and critical mass acceptance. Many ideas are already out there: wealth taxation and higher income taxation, $15 per hour minimum wage, Medicare for all, re-unionisation of the work force, support for and reinvigoration of social security as a means of retirment income security.

I would add the overturning of Citizens United may be most crucial of all, but this will require decades to first turn around the SCOTUS, another chief feature of the stick to itiveness of the GOP formula across the decades. ("libertarian" Glenn Greenwald, burn in Hell).

Are these a "revolution?" No, they are a moderate path of correction after 4 decades of destructive neoconservative and neoliberal ownership of politics....a path of correction which Trump/Brexit-style populism fails to offer much less deliver.

Will these ideas beome reality after 1-2 elections? No. Perseverance by many is required. The "Reagan Revolution" which destroyed Amerikkka after all is 40 years old (50 if you count Nixon).

Cynicism is the killer of perseverance. Unrealistic expectations are the breeding grounds of cynicism.

Cynicism invariably results in fascism.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 13:57 utc | 147


HSBC is also a leader in international money laundering. Sometimes it's reffered to as CIA's bank. CIA has business in Hong Kong.


I have predicted the crypto-backed new currency for a few years now. Brandon Smith at another one. Crypto is not necesseraly as fiat since it's not arbtitrarly printed.

Posted by: j | Aug 24 2019 14:08 utc | 148

So, it now seems that Trump became a communist, and the USA has a centrally planned economy:

Trump ‘hereby’ orders U.S. business out of China. Can he do that?

That's the spirit, Trump! I knew America would finally realize the inferiority of the capitalist system vis-a-vis the socialist system.

Posted by: vk | Aug 24 2019 14:26 utc | 149


Brandon Smith is a libertarian. He is correct about media selectively reporting about recession. Trump is now fighting the Fed and the recession. Trump will escalate trade war with China as to lay blame on that for economic pain.

Posted by: j | Aug 24 2019 14:32 utc | 150

@149 vk

That is a gross exaggeration. Everyone knows that business with China is only good for getting cheap shit. It impacts the common man in no good way other than particle board furniture.

He is reigning in the globalist elites that lead business in our country. I applaud that so should any good nationalist. He is a regulator, not a central planner.

Keep it up, Trump!

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 14:36 utc | 151

An attempt to postpone the Sept 2nd back-to-school fade-out.

"HK students announce two-week class boycott

Hong Kong student leaders have called for a two-week class boycott as they seek to keep protesters on the streets and pressure on the government to respond to the five key demands after three months of protests over controversial changes to the extradition law."

Posted by: DaffyDuct | Aug 24 2019 14:37 utc | 152

Now even the IMF is beginning to question India's obscene growth figures:

India’s downturn evokes shock, doubts

India’s current economic downturn has become severe enough to raise major concerns both far and near.

As the International Monetary Fund raised doubts about the government’s tax revenue collection projection for 2019-20, two officials close to the Narendra Modi government have expressed their own worries about the state of the economy and called for urgent measures.

The government projected tax revenue to grow 25% year on year. The IMF has asked India to explain how it is confident of meeting those revenue estimates given what has turned into an economic slowdown across the board. India has to respond this week, Business Standard reports.

It's already well stablished among economists that India's GDP figures are a farce: it's growth is more likely half or below the 7%ish rates it has been divulging for a decade. Now, even its tax revenues are being questioned -- by the IMF nonetheless.

It seems the "Superpower by 2020" is a paper tiger.


@ Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 14:36 utc | 151

Well, if that's the case, then he'll fail.

(and I was joking in that comment)

Posted by: vk | Aug 24 2019 15:04 utc | 153

Searchterm> Mega Group, Maxwells and Mossad: The Spy Story at the Heart of the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal (mint press news)

Straight dope? Yeah, ugly though...

Posted by: Walter | Aug 24 2019 15:24 utc | 154

I really appreciate Hudson as well.

Flash yet serious take on Marx in this context.

Marx was at heart a philosopher (they come in many guises! bad, horrendous, interesting…) but not a ‘serious’ economic analyst.

Marx, two glaring blind-spots:

1) Treating the Earth, Nature - animals, plants, forests, water, sun, rain, human extraction of coal, fossil fuels, and human agri, and more - as present and stable in unconsidered perpetuity, to be exploited at will with no limits. The Earth as a kind of ‘backdrop’ on a stage where humans ACT as they want, or decide to ... Not analysed in any way. (Basically. In any case, nefarious externalities are never taken into account.)

2) /Paid/ Labor treated as a subset of ‘employment’ or slavery type in commercial / domination / other similar relationships, or exchanges, which is not wrong, but only partial, as the analysis of ‘industrial labor’ to make it short, ignores for ex. the needed, and institutionalised contributions of women at the time, to bring up strong, healthy, and semi-educated new laborers; small farmers and other marginals (food, textiles, local traders, more), not considered as part of the economic circuit. Again, a sort of unquestioned functioning stable backdrop.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 24 2019 15:39 utc | 155

@151 nemesis calling.. do you think apple products are cheap shit?? the fact is, it is the so called us corporations that have been happy to farm out to china to the extent that not much of anything is made in the usa anymore... trump has the same attitude and is happy to use cheap labour.. all these kleptomaniacs running the usa, from the ceo of walmart, right on down will sell americans on the concept of making america great again, but they are the same ones who have made the usa what it is today... a dispensary for made in china products...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2019 15:48 utc | 156

Vk, I would like to see you talk more about what the West and specifically the US should do. It seems you seem to gleefully cheer on China without ever addressing the need of the West to reign in their elites which China seems to be all snuggly with.

Until you do, I will view you and your ilk with suspicion that you are indeed Team-China and so have your lot cast into their future. But what is the future of China wiping the floor with the US? A multi-polar world? Hardly. You will see technocratic bullying with all the trappings of a "globalised common-good" the likes we have not seen yet. In other words, if you think the ascendancy of the West was bad, wait till the reemergence of the Orient par-excellence. Lockheed will not be leading the way in that world but rather a system of surveillance and crushing dissent and financial control that would make this iteration of the global elite jealous and erect for a painful amount of time robbing the blood from the rest of their flaccid bodies to their great detriment.

In other words, why aren't you cheering for a soft landing for the West that would truly usher in multi-polarity and would keep China and the US locked in their regions of influence thus bringing a more natural world?

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 15:49 utc | 157

@ Posted by: Noirette | Aug 24 2019 15:39 utc | 155

Marx was literally a philosopher: he had a Ph.D. in philosophy, with specialization in Logic.

Posted by: vk | Aug 24 2019 15:55 utc | 158

@James 156

The only way the elite in this control could have started their globalised trading with China cerca Nixon was in the conspiring to 1) make money together with the Chinese elite, 2) sell US manufacturing and middle America down the river, and 3) supply US with cheap shit so as to give the illusion of prosperity.

If real wages were not going to keep pace with the growth of wealth in the hands of the elite, then it would have had to supply cheap shit because how else would Americans have paid for it if their wages were not keeping up?

There are many here who know that the elite in both the West and China are in cahoots and have been since the beginning. This was the beginning of the terror of globalism and the twilight of nationals caring for their people.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 15:57 utc | 159

@151 Nemesiscalling

Zionist Trump is a whiney, pouty baby bully trying to shove American domination of this planet down everyone's throat and using an economic Samson option threat to get his way. Then after he blows up everything, he's going to slither back under the golden rock he emerged from in 2016 to wreak havoc and misery on the world with his air-sucking, blood-sucking narcissism and his gluttonous ego.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 24 2019 16:02 utc | 160

@159 nemesis calling.. i agree with you... i however don't buy into sweet words from politicians.. trump is no different.. the saying 'talk is cheap' needs to be stamped on the foreheads of politicians, so that people listening to them keep it in context...

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2019 16:05 utc | 161

@ Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 15:57 utc | 159

Has consideration ever been given that the greed ascribed to the <1% and their mountainous accumulations of wealth may be equalled if not surpassed by the 99% only buying the lowest price available even if they must drive 20 miles out of their way to get it? Like the view of the world resting on the backs of elephants standing on turtles all the way down, it certainly looks like greed, all the way down might be the problem that needs solving.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 16:35 utc | 162

donkeytale @147: Trump .. Trump .. Cynicism invariably results in fascism.

Personalizing politics ("Trump"!) and decrying "cynicism" are part of the Democracy Works! agenda. Hopium drives participation in the scam.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 24 2019 16:38 utc | 163

@147 donkeytale

Cynicism is the killer of perseverance. Unrealistic expectations are the breeding grounds of cynicism.

Cynicism invariably results in fascism.

I get this, but isn't it unrealistic of you to put such faith in a world generated in perpetuity by a dumb middle class mass infused with materialism/greed and spiritual/moral vacuum and at best hypocrisy?

You can't fight the dumb mass so easy to rule fixated on trash tv and fake media while they spin around on their spinning wheel chasing a mirage of true love somewhere in the distance there while those who start to figure it out are high on oxy and heroine or living in a cardboard box under a bridge and left to rot away by the wayside.

It's never going to change until a major planetary cataclysm, but who knows if and when, and what a way for change to manifest. Meanwhile, raw, impotent awareness is the greatest of all afflictions. Better to be asleep like the dumb mass than to wake up in the middle of overwhelming ignorance, insensitivity and complacency fighting windmills a centimeter at a time until you burn out or are snuffed out by the lack of oxygen around you.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 24 2019 16:44 utc | 164

@162 formerly t-bear

Has it ever occurred to you that the rise of globalism ran parallel to the ascension of marketing, i.e. the "need" to buy Nikes. Nike is not a shoe company now. It is a marketing one. It may be true that my countrymen are blinded currently by the ability to buy so much at such a cheap price, but this is a temporary phenomenon that goes hand in hand with the availability of cheap products.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 16:46 utc | 165

I just read a posting at Reuters (no link) that says the US/Turkey have completed the set up of the "safe zone" in Syria and it is operational.

This seems like a rush job perhaps because of what happened to the Turkish convoy stoppage that was trying to get to Khan Shaykhun last week.

Since this "safe zone" IN SYRIA has not been coordinated with Syria and/or Russia it will be interesting to see what the response is. This certainly gives support to those that say Turkey is trying to play both sides of the conflict for its own potential gain.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 24 2019 16:51 utc | 166

james these are the laws of capitalism and national personalities while interesting to compare with each other won't upend the global system.
What the cheerleaders for one national political system over another cant admit (which is strange as many claim to understand Marxism) is the capitalist exploitation of labour will likewise chew up and spit out the Chinese working class too and replace with the next emerging cheaper imperialist outpost as soon as their wages rise to the "first world" level, making their cost too dear for the ownership class.

Of course, the default response will be the Chinese are zen, they have working class interest at heart, et al ad nauseum.

However, times and personalities change to fit the circumstances. Xi will pass naturally from the scene.

The global system will remain inviolate until someone knocks it down.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 16:58 utc | 167

@163 Jackrabbit

The difference between your cynicism and mine is that you ridicule and squash integrity, while peddling snake oil, while I recognize and respect it for what it's worth despite the fact that I know it will be, drowned out, demonized and eaten alive or ridiculed and twisted by your type.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 24 2019 17:00 utc | 168

@ Nemesiscalling | Aug 24 2019 16:46 utc | 165

Globalism started very long time before what you're talking about, don't cod yourself and hide behind such self-serving nonsense. Were you aware there is some indication about half of the Roman Empire's silver coinage ended up in China or somewhere along the way to? Modern marketing only made exchange more efficient and effective, thats all. As for temporary phenomenon? What happens when no amount of marketing will move the merchandise?
Had you ever thought of that? Just how long will it take for your exemplar $125 Nikes to fall to a price below the $15 needed to produce them, and how long will their cost of producing remain where it is? It's another coding that the status quo will remain, particularly in interesting times.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 17:12 utc | 169

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 24 2019 15:39 utc | 155

Marx glaring blind-spot:

Treating the Earth, Nature - animals, plants, forests, water, sun, rain, human extraction of coal, fossil fuels, and human agri, and more - as present and stable in unconsidered perpetuity, to be exploited at will with no limits. The Earth as a kind of ‘backdrop’ on a stage where humans ACT as they want, or decide to ... Not analysed in any way. (Basically. In any case, nefarious externalities are never taken into account.)

That's very unfortunate, because early in his career Marx didn't view the Earth this way and was especially cogent in writing about what he called the metabolic rift between commodity agriculture and the urban consumption of those commodities. Too bad he mostly let that thread drop. The road not taken...

Posted by: Russ | Aug 24 2019 17:22 utc | 170

@159 Nemesiscalling, you are the wolf in sheep's clothing.

One only has to look at the lord of corrupt elitism you peddle: a man who probably never did an honest day's work in his life and scammed his way from the moment the silver spoon fed him his first taste of caviar, to getting out of bankruptcy and into licensing scams and scamming his way straight into the White House. He's anti-immigration and uses cheap undocumented labor and he's anti-globalism and gets his label trash made in China.

This is the Chosen One who will save us all from the evils of globalism.

You're a slick talker -- the better to fool you all with!

Posted by: Circe | Aug 24 2019 17:25 utc | 171

Posted by: vk | Aug 24 2019 15:55 utc | 158

"Marx was literally a philosopher: he had a Ph.D. in philosophy, with specialization in Logic."

That's a fallacy. Would you consider the average philosophy professor or grad student today a philosopher like Plato or Nietzsche? Of course not. One's thinking makes one a philosopher or not, not any kind of formal degree.

Posted by: Russ | Aug 24 2019 17:25 utc | 172

Circe @168: The difference between your cynicism and mine ...

Many who take no note of the news blackout regarding the Yellow Vest protesters are cheering the Hong Kong protesters.

"Cynics" that make note of such things are demonized.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 24 2019 17:26 utc | 173

Circe - Im not placing faith Im stating pretty much what Karlof1 and even JR (in his own inimitable manner lol) are suggesting. Mass movement must be achieved to reform any "democratic" (vote gathering) political system.

Today the world is much as you describe. Undoubtedly people have been basically the same forever. "Human, all too human."

Of course massive catastrophe is the unequivocal harbinger of great social change. People generally wont change until it is literally a matter of life and death. And even then the majourity are more likely to roll over and die.

Still, within our limitations there can and have been reforms achieved when enough people put aside rather insignificany differences, gsin a speck of courage then gather and sustain political engagement over time to accomplish their goals.

The Reaganist GOP as example.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 17:34 utc | 174

@ T-Bear 169

What you are talking about is two different iterations of globalism under a demonic dialectic.

The former one during the Roman empire was predominately commodity-based. It still left room for local production, local industry, and local elites which managed local economies. The Roman roads made it easy to pay troops abroad, bribe officials in far away lands, and bring bananas home, but staples of existing economies were by and large supplied by their locality. Sure, elites got their hands on finished pottery or novelties from other lands, but that's about it.

Our modern globalism is a totally different beast. Please don't try to convince me that this iteration has always been the case. No. You can practically measure the point where the teeter-totter gave way and our side was sunk under the weight of our own elites' betrayal of their people.

If there is a part of DJT which assumes this to be the case, as it is, then bonus. But as it stands, accelerating the decoupling event with China will in the long-run be the savior of this country. At this point, fuck the rest of the west and their holding to their centralized EU. America first, baby, as it should be to AMERICANS!

Re: Nike. I am fine with the "luxury" brand Nike crashing into oblivion. The current backlash against globalism from independent news-producers, whether "pro-porn" like MoA or "white nationalist" from the "alt-right" is IMO a reaction to the phenomenon of this age of marketing under a globalist paradigm. We aren't "buying" it anymore, despite the elites' attempt via MSM or Soros-backed shadow-funded groups like the "Anti-Fascists" (lol!) in our country to paint with broad-strokes any Nationalist-interest as inherently racist or totalitarian.

Take a good hard look at companies like Nike and how their marketing has shifted to not sell shoes but rather sell ideas and political affiliation. Look at the Colin Kaepernik narrative at how that impacted the NFL for the worse. Since they have buried that issue by paying-out that POS opportunist Kaepernik, the NFL is back in the black. NBA players tried a similar, although infinitely more feeble, attempt at protesting the national anthem before quickly being hushed by the owner-masters in the administration who knows what the people want to see (black men jumping from thirty feet away and slamming a sphere into a cylinder). In my town, in Portland OR, the Major League Soccer Admin has warned our local team and their fans to not showcase any images or logos of the ironfist in response to all of the "white nationalist" activity in our fair city. They know the kind of backlash that affiliation with the misplaced belief that our country is being co-opted by fascists will engender.

Given the choice, most people in this country back the punitive response of Trump vis-a-vis China. And if it brings us down, it will bring them down too, which is a double-win. I see no other favorable alternative for the US.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 24 2019 17:49 utc | 175

@167 donkey... i don't have the same rosy view of china as some others here... i think capitalism is eating itself at presemt.. it isn't working for the masses and as you mention in a later post - karlof1 and jr suggesting voting will change all this - i like to be idealistic too, but i am not so sure about that... we'll see... as for china, here where i live the new chinese immigrants are buying up the businesses in a community of under 100,000... i see the smaller sizes and the larger costs and don't really care for all the zen talk myself, but generally i ignore it...

vancouver, which is close by and b.c. has morphed into something very different thanks the casinos that have been used as a money laundering means... things here in b.c. have gone south and vancouver is a type of ground zero for a lot of hong kong people who wanted to have the security of something other then what 1997 hand over to china was going to be.. these folks are consumed in status - mercedes, bmw, big box houses - empty or devoid of furniture inside... it is all about keeping up appearances... if that is zen - i will take a rain check on that!! 2nd, 3rd, and later generations of chinese are a completely different matter.. they fully integrate into the community and are great members of the community.. well - that has been my experience anyway.. i wish china well, but i am not convinced they are going to be able to find a balance.. i hope they do.. we sure haven't!

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2019 18:12 utc | 176

On August 25, the liberation of Paris from Nazi forces is commemorated. Among the troops that entered Paris that day, the first was made up of Spanish Republican soldiers. “The Nine” by @RojoMosca for @mundoobrero

Today, the anniversary of the Liberation of Paris, it is a good day to remember the best prepared generation in our history. They were the first to take up arms against fascism and many anti-fascist Spaniards did not stop fighting until the defeat of Nazifascism in 1945.

Spain should have a Pantheon of the Righteous. It was the land where international fascism could not walk, faced a poorly armed people who heroically resisted for three years. Glory to the antifascists.

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 18:34 utc | 177

27 Years ago, Fidel Castro warned of Brazil's ecological disaster, that was in 1992, during his intervention at the UN....
A speech which could have fit perfectly today in the counter-G7Summit...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 18:48 utc | 178

james @176

Clarification: I'm not suggesting that voting will bring the kind of changes that are necessary. And my views are not the same as karlof1.

Western elites have virtually a free hand at the moment. And they're using that to extend their power and control, both domestically and internationally.

I don't have a rosy view of China either, but I think a multi-lateral world is marginally better than a unilateral world. Marginally better only because it means an arms race as elites on each side attempt to gain an advantage. Ideally, multi-lateralism means a world where nations accept each other and work with each other for the betterment of their people - but the willingness to do so requires that governments are actually democratic. Sadly, governments today are not democratic due to financialization and neoliberal (self-serving) ideology.

IMO elites on all sides will lead us down the garden path to war and ruin. But ordinary people are not allowed to connect the dots that lead to such a conclusion. Hopium rules! (or rather, allows the rulers to rule over the dumbed-down hopeful)

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 24 2019 19:02 utc | 179

@ 175

I was trying to get you to broaden your definition of globalism but you won't. Have it your way. World trade always extended to the limits technology allowed, how do you think the human species got to Australia when it did? Or the islands in the Pacific. Technology up to the time of Christopher Colon had been basically limited to muscle power with some development of water power in limited usage (non-mobile). Advances in ship design allowing highly effective use of wind power was the technology that allowed true global reach and it did. Quibble away endlessly but do try to discern better.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 19:03 utc | 180

Strange and sudden development in Russian diplomacy....

Russian ambassador to UK relinquishes his duties - embassy

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 19:19 utc | 181

@180 T-bear

Some traits of globalism are inevitable. How do you think Herodotus was welcomed enough in far off lands to be able to bring The Histories home? But do not fool yourself into thinking that this ongoing march of globalized "history" is natural or sustainable. Or that the interconnectedness of national economies to this extreme is going to result in anything other than calamity. Just as with the Soviet Union, these experiments of hyper-centralization in this globalist paradigm is showing its cracks. Indeed, elites have gone a bridge too far with this iteration and epoch of it. That is all I was saying. The dialectic of globalism ends with the realization that national sovereignty and elites beholden to their own country is the only way forward. We should continue this conversation in b's new thread. It is apropos.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 24 2019 19:43 utc | 182

Interesting thread ( and Twitter account on History of Afghanistan by Afghan Historians.. ) on British shenanigans in that The Donald claims it´s others who must clean the mess they sowed...

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 19:44 utc | 183

james - I'm well aware JR is beyond voting at this stage so that's not exactly what I meant. Karlof1 does seem to get there needs to be both types of inside/outside movements happening simultaneously and neither will be helped by the incressant sniping back and forth. Like Occupy which wasn't a voting movement but it did seem to inspire the Bernie 2016 campaign which in turn brought heretofore unspoken ideas to the debate and now we look and see a handful of Bernie inspired young female leftists of colour got themselves voted into Congress from where they are scaring the living shit out of Trumpkopf and his dumbkopfs in the GOP.

This from one rather innocuous but somewhat sustained protest movement and one failed political campaign from which we did discover small political donations by many can actually compete with the Citizens United Super PACs.

JR is asking for a movement outside of the political mainstream. But I also see a majourity of Democrats, especially younger persons of colour being open to "socialism," by which they mean a better funded social safety net. And as a start I will take that for many people are hurting and in need of a safety net.

Don't forget the lesson of the conservative movement. Take your lumps, take your wins, give some back at times, but whatever keep moving forward and don't quit out of cynical despair just because you couldn't snap your fingers, vote for Obama in 2008 then sit back on the sofa and watch a glorious utopia arise unimpeded all around you.

Besides I'm not presumpuous enough to know which radical ideas today will find mainstream acceptance after a point in time. I am presumptuous enough to know that no matter how great the idea it needs to find mass acceptance to go anywhere so I'm happpy enough to see the growth of leftism wherever it can be found in large numbers...

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 20:06 utc | 184

I also believe my old buddy Nemesis misses the point that capitalism is beyond nationalising at this point in time and any call for nationalism by the likes of Trump or Farage/BoJo is a ruse that has no material benefit for anyone...except the wealthy elites NC detests.

Politics is politics and multinational corporations (such as the aforementioned by james above... Apple---made in Chinese sweatshops---immensely benefits US and Chinese elites) will go on about their business unimpeded and with Trump provided tax cuts (!!!) to boot because Trump's idea of nationalism is simply a misdirection ruse for him to build a critical mass of disillusioned voters with a Hollywood fantasy nostalgic platform of xenophobic resentment of the elites...who stand to benefit the most by the impotent calls to nationalism...and of course the elites among whom Trumpkopf firmly counts the billions of dollars.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 24 2019 20:14 utc | 185

@ NemesisCalling | Aug 24 2019 19:43 utc | 182

I suppose of late globalisation has taken on the colour of a boogyman, a straw-man object for 3 minute hates, something that goes bump in the dark. Association with elites assures this. Globalisation, like terror, is technique to accomplish some end. Look there for where your actors lay, who is accomplishing those ends, not at some phantom of the imagination. If one does not know the enemy as well as themselves, they have lost. Currently neither are understood and loss looks certain. This has become far removed from the attempted contribution of greed being socially distributed from top to bottom. And yes, a conversation should be continued as opportunity presents.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 20:16 utc | 186

@179 jr and @184 donkeyt.. thanks guys.. i tend to view much of this like jr.. i apologize for saying that without articulating my views on a regular basis... it is hard to be optimistic, but i like to be optimistic.. if you met me in person you would think i am a youthful optimistic person! it is under the hood where you find i don't share the idealism that many others share on the likelihood of a peaceful solution, or a multi polar world happening without some real turmoil.. multi lateral sounds good...

if the young congresswomen in the dem party came out of the occupy wall st movement - i see that as a positive development.. i am not convinced the change is going to come out of the democrat party... it seems to me they are just as beholden to the corps as the repubs, although they don't come out and say it the same way.. maybe some radical movement will come along again and it will be the basis for a new political party to usurp the 2 that are presently working for the 1 - war party... i hope that's the case... as it presently stands, it looks like a downhill slope for america where i sit.. canada is on the same grid too..

Posted by: james | Aug 24 2019 20:24 utc | 187

@Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 19:44 utc | 183

BTW, talking about shenanigans...guess who has already arrived in Afghanistan...
Yes, you would not believe it, but, it´s true, there she is...Greta Thunberg!
It does not fit well to me that Greta is arriving there just when The Donald claims he is going off...I am smelling of chamusquina here....and, anyway, what´s the point of talking the Afghans about environmental protection when theirs has been wiped out by the US during the last 20+ years...and they lack even measures to protect themselves from US drone attacks?

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 20:27 utc | 188

Formerly T-Bear @186:

... of late globalisation has taken on the colour of a boogyman, a straw-man object for 3 minute hates, something that goes bump in the dark.

The strawman/boogyman is becoming manifest:

BOE's Mark Carney Urges Replacing Dollar With Libra-Like Reserve Currency

Such a move would permanently moor Europe and others to the Empire.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 24 2019 20:29 utc | 189

@186 T-Bear

I find that your dismissal of the effects of globalism, which have without a doubt, gutted my country from the inside/out both economically and socially, as just a boogeyman de jour incredibly insulting to those who have suffered under its boot. Maybe you have never labored manually or done factory work, but I have, and I have seen what it does to not only the ability for a schlub like me to make a living, but for the liberal elites to try to understand what it is that my brethren and I are trying to articulate in raising it as a concern.

You want to throw globalism as an object in with all the others that bufuddle and inflict mankind in its nature. Obfuscate is a term that gets thrown around the bar a lot. I feel in your post, to me anyway, one will find its most purest example.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 24 2019 20:38 utc | 190

@ Jackrabbit | Aug 24 2019 20:29 utc | 189

A quick reply. That's blather, from a professional blatherer. Keynes had considered something of the same but that never came to fruition, not even a flower. It's doubtful Mark Carney will do any better. Problem stems from a fundamental quality money services, a common measure of value. Start calculating from there. How can a money, previously nonexistent be used when no common experience with its value has been established. Pure fiat that scheme and will fly like a dead lead pigeon.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 20:45 utc | 191

@ NC #190

Forget conversation, you appear incapable of conducting one. Carpet bombing sundry thought is seen as a debate technique to overwhelm. No more time will be wasted with your ilk. Finis

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 24 2019 20:54 utc | 192

Andrew's main job is to remain unmovable. It's a family business. They taught the world.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 24 2019 21:28 utc | 193

Comment 2 by vk
About the first link about Black raining in Sao Paulo. It's pure non sense.
The air current do not work this way in Brazil.
There is no air going from Amazon to Sao Paulo. It's the opposite. Air came from Antarctic and goes North.

But the rain, black, is real. So where did it came from.

Any Brazilian with 20 few years and little IQ will know it.
It's time to PLANT. And what they do "QUEIMADAS"(Burned) to "clean" the land and HELP fertilize the soil.
It is if the newspaper say it is from Amazon, no one will cough the responsible.
It do not come from the North. It came from West of Sao Paulo from a State called Mato Grosso.

Posted by: Zico, The Musketeer | Aug 24 2019 22:01 utc | 194

Whole video by Sputnik News on the counter-G7 Summit demonstration of today from Hendaye ( France ) to Irun ( Spain )

You can enjoy the Zanpantzar starting at minute 47´footage....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 24 2019 22:29 utc | 195

Given the choice, most people in this country back the punitive response of Trump vis-a-vis China. And if it brings us down, it will bring them down too, which is a double-win. I see no other favorable alternative for the US.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 24 2019 17:49 utc | 175

Double-win??? Oh yeah! It makes a whole lot of sense to cut off your nose to spite your face!🙄

Posted by: Circe | Aug 25 2019 1:06 utc | 196

Trump has a problem and this problem is named Andrew. How will Trump explain Bojo that he needs Herr Mr Prince to testify or appear in court?
This fat idiot of Andrew made a declaration today, "thinking" he was reacting to this article
while in fact a much more damaging article was just published a couple of days ago where Epstein role as a spook appears in broad day light (Brockman is informing him about what academic is working on what and then tries to set up traps for the academic in question to fall into Epstein claws). But the best is the part where Brockman details in an email (attached to the article) that Andrew was receiving a foot massage by a beautiful young Belarus girl, apparently to tell the academic that if he is lucky he'll get the same treat.
These people are pathetic.
As to Dershowitz, his role in bullying is made clear by the NPR piece.

Maxwell was an expert at the same kind of pressures, as from the court documents detailing how her lawyers had been charged to take contacts with the press with and provide them with fake information when Virginia Giuffre tried to get her to court in 2015.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 25 2019 1:10 utc | 197

@196 circe

If there is one country in the world that needs a rude wake-up, it is, yes sadly, the US.

I have conceded that from the start. But it doesn't mean that I wouldn't have its best interests at heart.

Everyone knows that it's gonna be painful. You actually desire the status quo, ad infinitum? You must work for the banking finance sector if you are cheerleading this culture of debt.

Give me something I can sink my teeth into, circe, or just shuddap or ignore me or something.

Because, by my account, in the midst of failure and collapse I see opportunity for the US to reestablish itself under the rule of a mutually beneficial law for its people and a step down from its wannabe-empire neocons who are as we speak losing their sway amidst this China-thing. Thanks, Trump?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 25 2019 1:19 utc | 198

Below is a link describing how Tulsi Gabbard is being excluded from the Dem debates

Gabbard Victimized by DNC's Dubious Debate Criteria

The preview of the link looks ok and seems to work but the HTML doesn't look right in the composition box....

Apologies if this causes a problem when posted

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 25 2019 3:28 utc | 199

@ this locus> (remove the ---)
Three very fine interview and thoughtful well-informed essays. Brother Adeyinkamakinde is a QC - not a lightweight.


In other matter, Mr E. b has copy of fb post in re the escape. Escape. At least one guy who was presumably there and had a good understanding thought it was a swap for a ringer.

Posted by: Walter | Aug 25 2019 10:20 utc | 200

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