I got nothing …
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August 7, 2019
Open Thread 2019-46
Comments
I see that there is now fighting between Saudi and UAE backed forces in Aden, Yemen.
The Houthis have been taking the fight direct to Saudi Arabia in the last few months. It is staggering how bad it is going for the coalition. I am expecting a Houthi invasion of South-West Saudi, a mass flight of Saudi citizens to mecca, and a Shiite uprising in East Saudi and Bahrain any day now!
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 16:09 utc | 201
Tulsi wants to end Syria and Afghan wars. @ 183.
So did, does, Trump, see his campaign pledges. Many moves made in that direction.
The negotiations with the Taliban are proceeding. Aug. 2019, MSM:
The U.S. and the Taliban both say they are close to calling it peace after 18 years of war and multiple rounds of tense but cordial negotiations ..
https://time.com/5648002/us-taliban-peace-deal/
By 2020, reportedly, US forces will have withdrawn.
Gabbard would not have a war to stop, according to TIME.
(After participating in another now failed war – Iraq – off her own bat.. sure ppl can be fooled and change their minds..)
Certainly all is more complicated, but the MSM while spinning, etc. present the mainstream narrative to the larger public. Gabbard apparently ignores the situation as reported for rousing outdated talking points.
Re. the war in Syria, the US and allies (France..) have lost and the only issue remaining is how to wind down and save face. The last pockets of ‘terrorist activity’ are being eliminated. b posts about this regularly. Naturally it is complicated (Turkey + more.) but ‘stopping the war in Syria’ is outdated.
Gabbard On Venezuela:
We should use our leadership in the world to try to broker a diplomatic solution working with countries like Russia that have great influence over Venezuela so that there is a peaceful outcome,” she suggested. “Because I can tell you as a soldier, Martha, I have seen firsthand the high cost of war and pushing for this civil war, pushing for the use of military force, will only end up with more suffering and death and disaster for the Venezuelan people.
link is to real clear politics
https://bit.ly/2Th7qAi
Yes, war is horrible, and then what?
Posted by: Noirette | Aug 9 2019 16:29 utc | 203
What else will they do to bury the Maxwell/Prince Andrew evidence?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49300025
Posted by: Mina | Aug 9 2019 16:46 utc | 204
Found in the link Mina provided @196
Donald Trump was also a good friend of Jeffrey’s. He didn’t partake in any sex with any of us but he flirted with me. He’d laugh and tell Jeffrey, you’ve got the life.
Posted by: Zack | Aug 9 2019 17:01 utc | 205
That is all fine and good that the message of American military-adventurism abroad is being touted by Gabbard. Indeed, Djt did this to a lesser extent, although cryptically his ire was still directed at Iran. Tulsi, to her credit seems frothing at the mouth to go after the Saudis. And if you read the above posts re: incursion of Houthis into ksa, well, this spells a really bad thing for the Sauds. It means no support for the kingdom in the years to come. This will generally favor the shiites in the region and undermine the far right in Israel. If this happens, it will be a boon for anti-Israel crowd and they will be forced to make concessions for years to come in the region.
One can see why the Israelis might be throwing money at Tulsi. Will she fall for it if she whiffs the prez? It is fairly obvious that Djt did. I hope her ire for the Saudis runs deep.
Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Aug 9 2019 17:02 utc | 206
William Gruff @174–
Thanks for articulating what’s required–a Movement. I once argued that Obama’s campaign was deliberately done to raise expectations of what was the sprouting of a Movement and to backstab it such that its momentum died and generated a new generation of cynical people turned off to politics. Most every old, sage, Progressive observer/writer of domestic US politics I’ve read since the mid-1980s has recognized to need–and called for–a Movement. In the run-up to the 1992 election, William Greider wrote Who Will Tell the People?: The Betrayal of American Democracy which specifically called for the birth of a Movement to reclaim what was already recognized as lost–Betrayed as the title correctly announced. And in 1992 there was a stirring thanks to Ross Perot who was 100% correct about NAFTA and what Neoliberalism had in store for the working and white collar classes. Up till now, he was the last non-CIA candidate who had a chance to become POTUS. IF Perot had also concentrated on building a Movement during 1992, he might have had a much better chance when he ran again in 1996. But he didn’t and he lost badly. I worked for Nader in 2000 who knew he needed to build a Movement, but nothing gelled thanks to the blackout by BigLie Media. It was during that campaign when I did my research into what made the Populist People’s Party of the late 1800s a success, for it was indeed a Movement, as was a similar Populist Movement that arose during the Depression in 1934-5. Of course, the Current Oligarchy–The Establishment–wants to deter and snub any attempt at Movement formation in the bud, and they’ve been very successful. In the process, they’ve used prominent academics; (IMO, the most damaging is Richard Hofstadter and his Age of Reform, and to a lesser degree his other works) and control of the Media–academics play down the importance and futility of Movement-building thus deterring college-aged idealists, and Media control speaks for itself. Social Media’s rise and ability to bypass Establishment Media control is precisely why we see censorship and control now being strongly exerted in that realm, although at the present there’s still enough room to operate. And most recently, one of the closest observers of the USA’s political-economy, Michael Hudson, made this observation:
“I don’t see any popular movement yet….
“You don’t know when people will fight back. Often, surprisingly, they only fight back when things are getting better. But things still have a way to go to get much worse in Canada, much worse in the United States, so I don’t see any possibility of reform within the next 4 to 8 years.”
Currently, there are several visibly active movements within the USA. Polling late last year stated 70% of citizens supported Medicare For All–the largest mass of support for any one political issue. It generates the largest rallies and has yet to be blacked out by BigLie Media. It also challenges one of the biggest sectors of private finance–the insurance “industry”. There’s much connectivity to this one issue with many others, so building a broad-based, multi-issue Movement around it makes sense.(Yes, it would be nice if opposition to war had greater support, but lamentably it doesn’t.)
Sorry, but I omitted responding to a few commentators as the above seemed to have greater import.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2019 17:09 utc | 207
This is interesting in light of Michael Hudson’s slogan, “debts that can’t be paid, won’t be paid”.
From the CBC, Chase Bank forgiving all debt owed by its Canadian credit card customers
U.S.-based Chase Bank is forgiving all outstanding debt owed by users of its two Canadian credit cards: the Amazon.ca Rewards Visa and the Marriott Rewards Premier Visa. The bank retired both cards last year and said it’s wiping out cardholders’ debt to complete its exit from the Canadian credit card market.
Affected customers can’t believe their luck.
“I was sort of over the moon all last night, with a smile on my face,” said Douglas Turner of Coe Hill, Ont., after learning he’s off the hook for the $6,157 still owing on his now-defunct Amazon Visa. “I couldn’t believe it.”
After 13 years in the Canadian market, Chase decided to fold its two Visa cards in March 2018.
So it can happen. I’m interested in the opinion of other barflies as to how and why this happened, and what it means to our understanding of debt obligations. I remember that “forgiving” student loans is a plank in the platforms of front-running Dem presidential contenders Sanders and Warren.
Posted by: jonku | Aug 9 2019 17:18 utc | 208
ADKC @ 200 says:
I spent 30+ years not voting – it doesn’t make a difference things just got worse. So, dude, despite not voting and opting out being a cool fashion statement, it is definitely not a protest vote
i never said it was, though i suppose the inaction of not voting can be done in protest. you seem a little confused.
Posted by: john | Aug 9 2019 17:23 utc | 209
Further clarification regarding Trump and Giuffre found in link @196
Q: All right. What’s inaccurate about the last statement on that page?
A: “Donald Trump was also a good friend of Jeffrey’s.” That part is true. “He didn’t partake in any” of — “any sex with any of us but he flirted with me.” It’s true
Q: When you say, “he didn’t partake in any sex with any of us,” who is “us”?
A: Girls. Just —
Q: How do you know who Donald Trump — Trump had sex with?
A: Oh, I didn’t physically see him have sex with any of the girls, so I can’t say who he had sex with in his whole life or not, but I just know it wasn’t with me when I was with
other girls.
Q: And who were the other girls that you were with in Donald Trump’s presence?
A: None. There — I worked for Donald Trump, and I’ve met him probably a few times.
Q: When have you met him?
A: At Mar-a-Lago. My dad and him, I wouldn’t say they were friends, but my dad knew him and they would talk all the time — well, not all the time but when they saw each other.
Q: Have you ever been in Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein’s presence with one another?
A: No.
Q: What is the basis for your statement that Donald Trump is a good friend of Jeffrey’s?
A: Jeffrey told me that Donald Trump is a good friend of his.
Q: But you never observed them together?
A: No, not that I can actually remember. I mean, not off the top of my head, no.
Q: When did Donald Trump flirt with you?
A: He didn’t. That’s what’s inaccurate.
Q: Did you ever see Donald Trump at Jeffrey’s home?
A: Not that I can remember.
Q: On his island?
A: No, not that I can remember.
Q: In New Mexico?
A: No, not that I can remember.
Q: In New York?
A: Not that I can remember.
Posted by: Zack | Aug 9 2019 17:44 utc | 211
China has to tread very carefully, it doesnt belong to the teflon club.
The ‘international community’ aka ENA, would come down like a ton of bricks at the flimsiest excuse.
CCP is already branded ‘thuggish regime’ [sic]…
by the world’s no1 terrorist state, the USA.
P.S.
teflon club = nuthin sticks !
comprised of the [[[five liars]]], jp, India, Indon…..
membership bestow extraordinary privileges,
not least is the license to kill.
Posted by: denk | Aug 9 2019 17:44 utc | 212
John @210
You implied it @197 and you imply more so @210. Not voting is at best an imaginary protest akin to making a revolution in your bed.
Dude, you seem a little cowardly.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 19:09 utc | 213
Did you ever work for Les Wexner. Yes. Before I worked for Epstein
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250856-EpsteinDepositions.html
Posted by: Mina | Aug 9 2019 19:48 utc | 214
ADKC @ 214 says:
…Not voting is at best an imaginary protest akin to making a revolution in your bed…
uh-huh, well, for someone who spent 30+ years not voting, you seem to have settled for self-flagellation.
Posted by: john | Aug 9 2019 20:20 utc | 215
@ Posted by: ADKC 182
You appear to imagine a virtual world “all watched over by machines of loving grace” – you should be grown-up to realise that this 60s dream is an infantile abdication of being a responsible human being. In reality, what you are hankering after is an AI-controlled fascist nightmare that is exactly what the Kakistocracy want.
I asked you a single line hypothetical question and you already know all about me? Was your grandpa Sigmund Freud?
Iff’n nobody showed up to vote i think our military and militarized police would declare marshal law upon us and would likely then to be looking to confiscate the citizen’s weaponry, which would invariably lead to an interesting confrontation upon whether the ‘land of the brave’ decides to take a knee, or not? Not accusing you of anything, but appears you believe they’d take the knee? Whereas i don’t. I think that would be the last insult before revolution, which if that occurred you’d be quite correct my goose would be quickly cooked. However, my life couldn’t’ve been grander up til now, so i’ll have no complaints, even if i can’t finish typing this paragraph. (whew)
As for voting, we’re given the responsibility and whereas i have rarely voted for prez, since Nixon’s first term and when i did it was the independent parties, like last year with Gary Johnson who claimed he’s an alien who could foresee the future, so he already knew he was going to win. T’was that a wasted vote? I do vote at the local level and on our local issues, because that’s about the only place my vote might truly count? I can only hope, there is no proof, whatsoever. However, until big money is taken out of american politics the people have little opportunity to see their candidate(s) be heard in the later debates, which imho is sadly ridiculous in this day and age. Any and all candidates should be included, cull them down with a number of votes, not just one. Gotta take the money out of elections though, so all candidates are on level ground. Accomplishing any of that tho is unlikely after attending the capitol hill protests a few years ago, over too much money in our elections. Thousands attended, hundreds were arrested and it got nothing from msm, two short paragraphs in the back pages of the washington post’s metro section.
@ karlof1 208
Currently, there are several visibly active movements within the USA. Polling late last year stated 70% of citizens supported Medicare For All–the largest mass of support for any one political issue. It generates the largest rallies and has yet to be blacked out by BigLie Media. It also challenges one of the biggest sectors of private finance–the insurance “industry”. There’s much connectivity to this one issue with many others, so building a broad-based, multi-issue Movement around it makes sense.(Yes, it would be nice if opposition to war had greater support, but lamentably it doesn’t.)
I believe if you could get that movement moving on a domestic level, to a degree that some level of gain was accomplished for the people domestically, such as healthcare for all and an answer for student loans and perhaps rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, that foreign policy wouldn’t be far behind. Unhinging the deep state, however, would be another matter entirely.
Posted by: aye, myself & me | Aug 9 2019 20:33 utc | 216
ADKC @200
… if you choose not to vote you would be, in effect, consenting to war.
Behold the bizzarro mind-fuck logic of “democracy works!” propaganda.
From a guy who claims not to have voted for 30-years.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 9 2019 20:37 utc | 217
…knowing that Jeffrey had the Palm Beach Police Department in his pocket…
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250856-EpsteinDepositions.html
p.240 (103 of the pdf)
Posted by: Mina | Aug 9 2019 20:46 utc | 218
aye, myself & me @217
I just responded rhetorically, I don’t know you and I don’t for one minute think that I come sum you (or anyone else up).
Yes, I often disparage Americans willingness/ability to collectively organise and stand-up. Really, I’m looking for some gumption. Took a while but I guess I found some!
The scenario you paint though is fanciful and extremely unlikely but, I’ll play. For what it’s worth, in such a situation, I would advise you to take the knee and vote; there’s always tomorrow!
I am not really wedded to voting per se, but to the collective experience, policy discussion and focus that it provides.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 20:57 utc | 219
Jackrabbit @218
Whasup? Have I hurt your feelings?
Selective quoting and manipulative framing – where does it really get ya?
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 21:30 utc | 220
jonku @209–
In the Hudson interview I linked to @208, it focuses on Canada, its current situation, and how it got there.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2019 21:38 utc | 221
Epstein place could land in Marham Air Force Base in the UK to drop Prince Andrew and his friends.
How the hell are Maxwell and Prince Andrew not indicted yet?
Posted by: Mina | Aug 9 2019 21:39 utc | 222
john @216
You took issue with me and your points are barely understandable, I don’t know whether you have a substantive issue with me or just came into a thread midway, misunderstood and/or didn’t know what had led up to my comments.
Just say straight what your objection is and I’ll respond. And, dude, leave the smart talk out of it and I’ll respect you by doing the same.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 21:43 utc | 223
Blaming non-voters for the evils produced by a corrupt system is blaming the victim.
Americans DO NOT APPROVE of being lied into war and occupying countries for years on end. Such things could not happened if the system were actually democratic. Those who don’t vote because they are disillusioned, or even just sick on election day, aren’t responsible for the death and misery of humans half a world away – the asshats that created the corrupt system to serve their interests are responsible.
With that said, propagandized Americans are unfortunately too lazy and too ignorant to do what needs to be done: establish independent Movements. But that will change when they feel financial distress and/or see the casualties of war.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 9 2019 21:48 utc | 224
Mina
Thanks for the updates about Epstein/Ghislane.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 9 2019 21:49 utc | 225
karlof1 | Aug 9 2019 21:38 utc | 222
Thanks for replying … I have read every M Hudson essay you’ve linked to (thanks for the intro!), some I found on his website and other sources. The last two you linked are particularly cogent, especially the Global Warming essay currently 2nd from the top of michael-hudson.com. In simple terms it explains, once again, the history of US dollar hegenomy, oil co’s and global warming. And how vested interests, the oil majors, continue to oppose anthropogenic global warming (AGW, i.e. man-made) reports and mitigation. A must read!
I agree with you that he’s on fire right now, really getting down to the nitty-gritty in his explanations and even giving sources, such as when he describes a US Treasury official walking him through the details of how oil majors take (really, hide) their profits through offshore havens like Panama, where they pay no tax, and then send those profits back home to the US since, under the US-Panama tax treaty, (no) taxes have already been collected in Panama. At least that’s the gist.
My post was very specific: Chase Bank has forgiven thousands if not hundreds of thousands dollars, or more, of debt given to Canadian Amazon and Marriott credit card holders. Perhaps because legal fees, that was my question to the forum.
But this is a first!
When have we read in the mainstream media about a multinational bank forgiving credit card debt?!
Chase Bank forgiving all debt owed by its Canadian credit card customers
Posted by: jonku | Aug 9 2019 22:19 utc | 226
Now there are reports that the Houthis have struck a Saudi-backed forces command centre in Najran with a precision guided rocket, killing dozens.
It’s time for Saudi Arabia to recognise that they have lost.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 22:31 utc | 227
karlofi@208 is right, so is Gruff@174. Both posts are worth reading if, like me you missed them. I tried to make similar points in the thread on Russian bases in Iran.
As to the basis of a movement, the obvious juncture is between Defense expenditure and programmes such as Medicare for All, Free Tuition and infrastructure renewal, including Green New Deals. The money for all manner of good things already exists in vast pools dedicated to the waste of the MIC. It is time to collect the Peace Dividend and nobody can convince me that a mass movement cannot be built quickly around doing so.
Regarding the Populists, karlofi, again you are right to cite Hofstadter’s snobbish disdain for a very innovative and authentic political movement as an important and malign influence on understanding of a most important episode in the past.
Hofstadter’s contemporary, and clear superior, C Vann Woodward is a much better guide. “Tom Watson, Agrarian Rebel” is a classic not just of US but of modern history. The importance of the Populists in their building of alliances between farmers, industrial workers and doing so across the colour line in the face of the Redeemers, is one of the great moments in American and world history.
The defeat of Populism by Democratic racists and Republican imperialists took the sting out of the US left- the Progressive movement which inherited much of Populism’s momentum, the foundation of US liberalism, has always been fatally flawed.
It was one of the great strengths of Populism that it rejected, as liberalism never did, the reactionary scientific elitism which was dominant.
Regarding “How to Hide an Empire”- Puerto Rico, live as we speak, makes this a very topical book.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 9 2019 22:50 utc | 228
@228 Pessimism in Jerusalem….
“The apparent outcome is that the Emirates has abandoned the war in Yemen, the Saudi effort has failed, Yemen remains divided and mired in its misery and the Iranians can chalk up a considerable achievement. This is bad news for the anti-Iranian alliance and possibly indicates a trend that should concern the American president and his close friend, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.”
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/.premium-why-the-failed-saudi-campaign-in-yemen-is-bad-news-for-israel-1.7653157
Posted by: dh | Aug 9 2019 22:58 utc | 229
The UAE hasn’t stopped fighting in the Yemen it has simply decided to cash in its winnings-Aden and its hinterland. Aden is what the Emirates wanted, as to the rest of Yemen only the Saudis are stupid enough to want to continue a war that has Quagmire written all over it. In the meantime Israel is all for anything that weakens the Arabs and strengthens the kleptocracy, while the UK sells its mercenaries and the US sells its arms.
If reports of the Yemeni offensive into Saudi Arabia are true the days of the Saud dynasty are coming to a very sudden ending. There won’t be wet eye in Arabia, when that happens.
Posted by: bevin | Aug 9 2019 23:18 utc | 230
dh @230
Good! It’s over for Saudi Arabia, the Houthis have already won. It’s been bad news for Saudi Arabia for months. If Saudi Arabia want to continue the war then they will just destroy their own country.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 9 2019 23:20 utc | 231
jonku @227 & bevin @229–
Thanks much for your replies!
I must admit to feeling that I’m nearing the end of my rope when it comes to providing explanatory analyses instead of becoming involved in Movement Building, which is why I wanted to get involved with Gabbard’s campaign. Since Gabbard seems likely to be relegated to the sidelines and Sanders is the only candidate to call for a Movement, it seems logical to work in that aspect of his campaign despite my not agreeing with his entire platform–his core issue is Medicare For All.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 9 2019 23:45 utc | 233
Don’t despair karlofi, you are in very good company:
By David Bromwich
The Times full spread hit piece on Tulsi Gabbard is a new low, even for the Times. It is yellow journalism half disguised as human interest, with a few random points of political information.
Headline: “Unorthodox Campaign Shows Isolationism May Have a Hold.”
Opening sentence: “Tulsi Gabbard is running for president of a country that she believes has wrought horror on the world.”
Their initial strategy was simply to starve her out – no coverage, no candidacy. Now, because she’s still in and lately told a truth that weakened the Times choice Kamala Harris, they are giving her the Bernie 2016 treatment: i.e. this candidate is outlandish, absurd, unaccountably heartless (her sister fell off a horse while the story was being written and her reaction was lacking in warmth), mystical (she spoke at a solar panel dedication event), a tool of the wicked (she points out that Syria never went to war against the US) – and possibly a Russian agent.
Among Times readers, fewer than one in 50 is likely to be a supporter of Gabbard, but turning off voters is the secondary purpose of such an article. The primary purpose is to shape attitudes at CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, the Washington Post, and the Times sister publication The New Yorker. Legitimize flat-out condescension and contempt in the influential outlets and you keep her numbers down, since people won’t hear her voice at all.
A war veteran, an experienced and respected lawmaker, and a woman of color, but she commits the unpardonable error of criticizing worldwide US hegemony and so they follow the corporate reflex: make her a laughingstock.
Postscript. Gabbard stands up to an MSNBC hack who tries to overwhelm her with pro-war talking points. MSNBC is part of the perpetual war machine, as is the Times; they backed the Iraq war, and they’ll do the same for the next war, whether it’s in North Africa, east Asia, or Ukraine.
August 08, 2019 “Information Clearing House” –
Posted by: bevin | Aug 9 2019 23:51 utc | 234
I should note that C Vann Woodward’s book noted by bevin and seconded by me, Tom Watson: Agrarian Rebel, is available in an electronic version here. I never read the 1973 reissued version’s Preface until just now, and hadn’t read the original Preface in 20+ years. Woodward’s comments on the changing historiography are quite important for they prove my thesis that all histories are essentially revisionist and that the term–Revisionist History–is used in the same vein as Conspiracy Theory in order to discredit the author. The Preface’s prose from 80 years ago also signifies changes in the conveyance of ideas, facts, and truth.
So, thanks to bevin for giving me the spark to see if an e-version existed. It does, and I hope others will take advantage of that. And here’s the link to the ICH article bevin cites @235. Again bevin, Thanks!
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 0:29 utc | 235
first off – i don’t live in the usa, and i don’t monitor news 24/7, so forgive me if i make mistakes in my conclusions based on partial information…
@164 william gruff.. nice post… but from my pov, it as fun as it is to be idealistic, talking about building movements from within the democratic party, while cowtowing to the power system in place, is not the way to build movements.. sanders was for medicare for all? i thought that was obama’s project? clearly i am missing some of the details, or something is missing here… sanders would have been better to not cowtow and stand for his principles, as opposed to shilling for h clinton.. that’s how i see him..
anyone who wants to start a movement, based on free medicare, or no wars around the planet, would have my vote, but trying to do this inside the democrat party looks like a joke to me at this point.. maybe i need to let go of some of my cynicism.. i like tulsi and clearly she is getting to the establishment which is why they are trying to knock her down..
it seems like there is no alternative to this 2 party system and that the freak expression of ross perot or ralph nadar is not to be repeated.. why is that?? why can’t one of these people who claim to want to start a movement, do it outside this duopoly?? so, i am not really buying the arguments here, in spite of the fact i like the sweet words about starting a movement and etc.. you can’t start a movement inside a duopoly as i see it..
@182 adkc… i don’t assume anything with regard to what you have or haven’t read of karlof1.. i was only mentioning it based on what i know karlof1 has said changing from wanting to campaign for tulsi to wanting to campaign for sanders… i agree with you about sanders and foreign policy is not his strong point.. from my pov, foreign policy is the single most critical issue for the usa right now.. tulsi is addressing it – sanders isn’t.. i would be voting for tulsi, if given the choice but she is slipping and sliding like the best of them, and it is hard to know just what she stands for with regard to russia as you say..
maybe i haven’t followed jrs comments close enough.. i agree with your feelings about that though, if that is all true what you say.. i don’t agree with you about not voting, but we are going to have to agree to disagree.. vote for something you believe in, but if there is nothing to believe in – don’t waste your time.. to go back to gruffs comments – start a movement or find one you can believe in, but i really don’t believe it is going to be found in the duopoly…
@183 comandante quote – “Tulsi wants to end Syria and Afghan wars and would immediately free Assange, Manning and pardon Snowden if President.” that is good reasoning as i see it… as i was saying foreign policy is the number 1 issue that ought to be addressed by the usa electorate as i see it… tulsi seems pretty clear compared to sanders here..
@189 c1ue… the other possibility is that tulsi grew up from her past acts to realize how she was duped… i would entertain that possibility as well personally..
@197 john.. i mostly agree with your viewpoint…
@201 h quote which is much like what i am saying, although i continue to be unconvinced of the idea of working within the dem party, or what i call the duopoly – war party… “What Gruff states and AKDC concurs with is strategically using and building on Gabbard’s regime change wars/’interventions’ message to the forefront of the electorate, making it a top tier issue, forcing the public/voter to have a long overdue discussion on the profound implications of current foreign/military policy.”
@207 Nemesiscalling … yes, and i hope much the same if she makes it very far… but as you or noirette mentioned – the parallels with trump talking anti-war and why can’t we be friends with russia never materialized in any way.. talk is cheap with politicians, but i am inclined to trust tulsi at least 75% more then trump here…
@208 karlof1… how does one make a movement inside the dem party?? maybe it is possible and i am just too pessimistic…sanders definitely does not like the type of person to do it, or lead it.. sorry..
@226 jr… i agree with what you said there.. thanks..
hopefully this doesn’t go into the cue later then i post it..
Posted by: james | Aug 10 2019 1:14 utc | 236
@237 james
I don’t think anyone is talking about making a movement inside any existing organization, least of all the Dem party.
Great discussion here as I catch up with this thread. Thanks to karlof1 of course, and bevin is on fire.
My unschooled and un-scholarly perception of the Populist movement is that it grew out of reality, from the ground, and formed its superstructures on top of that up-welling, as all such structures should grow. And my further assumption is that the Populist movement didn’t know that the Democrats would co-opt and neuter it.
Interestingly, by the time of Occupy, that movement did know that. So there is learning over the generations. And thus of course it took complete physical oppression to destroy that groundswell and force it back to the dirt.
A mass movement will arise when it arises – and not knowing the “when” of this causes the entire oppressive state to exist. But when it arises it will seize on all the good thoughts and concepts and ideas that have been thrashed out in countless discussions such as these, and that persist and mature and fall ready to hand for the movement to use.
Thus, not one good word is wasted here.
~~
Start your movement, karlof1. And keep your ideas coming, formed into planks and platforms. When reality causes the movement to erupt from the ground, it will seize on all the useful movements too, no matter how large or small, and be grateful for the tools.
~~
Without a certain amount of faith, there can be no revolutions.
Posted by: Grieved | Aug 10 2019 3:02 utc | 237
I just want to be clear, I agree with ADKC that Tulsi is the best candidate that we are presented with.
But that’s not enough.
Even if we ignore her close association with the Democratic Party (she was a Vice-Chair) and the establishment (CFR membership), and her too-weak anti-war position (she has claimed to be both anti-war and a hawk, and seems unwilling to confront Biden and other candidates) then we are still left with a money-based electoral system that divides people and ensures that establishment-friendly candidates have a decisive advantage.
We’ve seen good candidates before (like Obama, and even Trump in some respects) that failed to deliver on their promises. It wasn’t that the Deep State pressured them, it was that we didn’t listen to them closely enough and weren’t skeptical enough to see the scam.
The duopoly pay huge sums of money to political consultants, think tanks, and polling companies so that they know how to play us. They know what concerns need to have “a voice” and how a people react when a candidate is praised or attacked by certain individuals and/or organizations. While it’s difficult to know what is planned and what is random, anyone with a sufficiently cynical pov can see (sometimes in hindsight) how a candidate that seems to “emerge” as a democratic choice has been helped to get there (apparently making behind the scenes deals to do so).
Which is to say that much of the grift is done in plain sight but American’s mindsets are manipulated in such a way that most can’t see it. They don’t look beyond what is presented to them and they don’t want to.
“Democracy works!” propaganda plays on American laziness. It takes Americans where they want to go: their comfy couch in front of the TV where they will be entertained by the political show instead of making efforts to improve the democracy they claim to love so much or prevent a war before it happens.
Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2019 3:28 utc | 238
Have we arrived yet?
Is there now a diagnosis of ‘Trump Derangement Syndrome’ Derangement Syndrome?
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 10 2019 7:47 utc | 239
The butler says that Maxwell had a closet for sextoys and a shiny black outfit. What is interesting is that Epstein needed books to get into that business. https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1159822148321591301
Not just as an initiate or an insider himself. So at some point through Maxwell he gets the idea of extending his blackmailing business using SM and underage girls that he would start to share with others to have them ‘owe him a little favor’.
Before that, blackmailing had been one of his main activities and the one which got him into finance
https://twitter.com/VickyPJWard/status/1150974890092191744
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 7:53 utc | 240
Is money and TV all it takes to keep Americans docile and doing and voting as they are told?
In my view it isn’t.
Steps must be taken to introduce tension and division and this, IMO, is what the American state has done by implementing Gladio type events in America. To some extent this is Karma, chickens coming home to roost, as it was the US that implemented Gladio in Europe.
I did some research to see how American websites might view Gladio. I saw straight away that there was a belief that Gladio was just about disarming Americans and I saw some references to Gladio being a conspiracy from an US proxy country that some people mistaken believe controls the US (when the truth is the other way around). I believe these viewpoints to be mistaken and deliberate FUD.
The whole point of Gladio is introducing tension, sowing division and wedding people to existing power structures.
The best way to deal with Gladio is to recognise such events for what they are and to call them out for what they are.
The recent El Paso and Dayton incidents have the attributes of Gladio events; there appeared to be foreknowledge, there are inconsistencies about what happened, there’s something improbable about the events, it feels scripted, implausible characters and personal stories, a convenient manifesto, the events were immediately harnessed for political ends, the tragedy seems to get quickly forgotten.
Gladio events are not really false flags (which are staged acts that frame other Nations as a justification for war) and this overused term (false flags) shouldn’t really be used. Gladio events tend to disappear (or morph into some new variation) once they lose their power to influence.
For all intents and purposes, there are no Islamists trying to destroy America, there are no white supremacists planning to save the white race by killing every one with a doubtful complexion – it’s all state run Gladio events, entrapment, and the occasional idiot copycat.
The only real terrorist is America and its actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. as well as it’s own people.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 10 2019 8:29 utc | 241
@242
To avoid any misunderstanding that last sentence should have read (correction in upper case):
“The only real terrorist is America and its actions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. as well as ON its own people.”
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 10 2019 8:35 utc | 242
About Gabbard vs Sanders. I find it interesting that Tulsi has come out with an Audit the Fed plank. This is an issue on which Sanders in incredibly vulnerable. After Ron Paul had managed to get a huge majority of the House to pass his Audit the Fed bill, it was sent to the Senate. Sanders was the main sponsor of the bill in the Senate. So what did Sanders do? He gutted his own bill, making it worse than having no bill at all. Look up Ron Paul on YouTube talking about it. (Try: youtube ron paul sanders guts audit the fed bill, on Bing or Duckduckgo.)
I would suspect that it is not just a coincidence that Sanders is a Jew and the owners of the Fed at last report were mostly European Jewish nanking families.
Posted by: sarz | Aug 10 2019 9:11 utc | 243
Jonku
imo it is all money laundering
some three years ago in London ads were on every bus stop to offer you 1000 pounds if you opened an account in this or that bank!
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 9:28 utc | 244
Finally #EpsteinUnsealed is trending on Twitter, but the BBC is still mute. Most of the articles i saw since yesterday in the MSM are very soft and whitewashing compared to the testimonies and the way they confirm each other against anything said by Mawwell.
As to the “prince” accused by Virginia, it must be the Sultan of Brunei, who did then already own famous hotels. He was named at the time (these documents are not entirely new, they had been seen by law officers then and Virginia had been interviewed by journalists.
How exactly does the 5th amendment work and why were the women who formed Epstein’s 1st circle exonerated just by using it??
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 9:38 utc | 245
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/new-details-in-unsealed-jeffrey-epstein-documents
much better than the rest of what i read reporting on it ( as is also the MiamiHerald)
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article233704797.html
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 9:44 utc | 246
@ sarz who wrote
”
I would suspect that it is not just a coincidence that Sanders is a Jew and the owners of the Fed at last report were mostly European Jewish nanking families.
”
Thanks for the info about Gabbard having a plank to audit the Fed which to me is a nice “dog whistle” about looking at how the finance system works.
To your remark about “….at last report were mostly European Jewish banking families.” I would ask for the source and also ask for who owns The City of London Corporation. I posit that we don’t know who owns the global private finance pieces and so the words from one of Greived’s latest remarks in the “No Russia/Iran base” thread comes back to me
”
One day we must get beyond the persons and swear allegiance to the issues.
”
The issue is private finance which I and others have repeatedly shown to be the case but I continue to read MoA commenters that insist on focusing on persons and it makes me think they are all trolls meant to obfuscate our core Western social organizational issue.
We are in WWIII right now over that issue and yet there is no real public discussion about the effects of global private finance discussed by any American existing or wannabe politician…we get the dog whistle of “audit the Fed” at best
If there is to be a Progressive Movement in the West, because America is just one of the pieces, it must start with the structure of our economic interface to each other, individually and in organizations. Change in that structure is being forced on the West by China/et al and you can bet that the global elite are wanting the Western public to stay ignorant and not discuss alternative finance architecture before the moment that is coming when some sort of “shift” will be forced to occur.
How we handle decisions about health care, education, social safety nets and such must start with a new set of global finance arrangements that make the “Risk Management” funding choices “democratic/public events” instead of the centuries of backroom cult of global finance decisions.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 10 2019 9:51 utc | 247
2 points are missed by the papers: the Swedish girl was certainly raped and drugged on the island because she tells the butler she does not recall how she came here (in NY or in Florida i don’t recall) and that the day before she was on the island; she says she first joined Maxwell and Epstein women when offered a job as ‘personal assistant’ to take his appointments etc and that is how she was lured, but was then deprived of her passport and threatened. Then her testimony find confirmation in the long interview of the pilot who says that they dropped a girl in Sweden.
This would happen in the supposedly highly-secured post 9/11 world…
Another point is that the owner of the hotels chain and the prince (not Andrew) are one and the same; the sentences of Virginia are clear enough, but the commas provoke some confusion.
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 9:53 utc | 248
https://twitter.com/AmendmentAll/status/1160006175989075968
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 10:01 utc | 249
Posted by: sarz | Aug 10 2019 9:11 utc | 244
You seem to have got this completely wrong. In other words you are telling a lie.
Democrats Kill Rand Paul’s Audit the Fed Bill, Though Sanders Votes Yes
Senate Democrats blocked a vote Tuesday on legislation from Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., that would have required an audit and greater transparency on monetary policy-making from the Federal Reserve, the powerful central banking system that sets interest rates and manages the money supply.
The bill won near-unanimous Republican support and votes from Sen. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wis., and Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, but fell short of the 60 votes needed for consideration.
…
The elder Paul says Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a reputed crusader for the working class, “voted with the bankers” Tuesday and lashed out at one of his son’s rivals for the Republican presidential nomination, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who didn’t cast a vote. “Cruz didn’t show up, and that won’t help him because he pretends he’s with us,” he says.
…
Sanders released a statement explaining why he voted against most Democrats, saying:
“Too much of the Fed’s business is conducted in secret, known only to the bankers on its various boards and committees. In 2010, I inserted an amendment in Dodd-Frank to audit the emergency lending by the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis. As a result of this audit, we learned that an institution that was created to serve all Americans had been hijacked by the very bankers it regulates.
We must expand on that first review of the Fed’s activities. Requiring the Government Accountability Office to conduct a full and independent audit of the Fed each and every year, would be an important step towards making the Federal Reserve a more democratic institution that is responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans rather than the billionaires on Wall Street.”
Duh.
Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2019 10:04 utc | 250
ADKC @ 224 says:
Just say straight what your objection is and I’ll respond
i said straight what my objection is at 197. since then you’ve said:
I spent 30+ years not voting – it doesn’t make a difference things just got worse
…so if you choose not to vote you would be, in effect, consenting to war
Not voting is at best an imaginary protest akin to making a revolution in your bed
I am not really wedded to voting per se, but to the collective experience, policy discussion and focus that it provides
if that doesn’t paint a picture of bewilderment, i dunno what does.
Posted by: john | Aug 10 2019 10:28 utc | 251
Google censorship, as one would expect
https://twitter.com/elrondur1/status/1160136914177024000
Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 10:37 utc | 252
Last from “ecocapitalists” “fascistprogres”, blaming climate change in the consumption of animal proteins by the working class….Even the UN proposes go eating increasingly less meat…The thing is that people has already reduced meat, and other animal proteins, consumption due the galloping poverty, now even amongst employees…
Then, Bolsonaro, proposes to poop once every two days to reduce carbon emissions…while he deforests Amazonia…the last lung of the planet..
In a news by Europa Press it is said that waking up to go piss during the night costs the Spanish economy 2,6 millions euro in decreassing of productivity….
Thus, this is the plan, friends, they want us working 15 hours a day, underfed eating only transgenic soy and porridge, not pissing or pooping, dressing clothes from the trash bin, arriving at job exhausted by pedalling through dozens kilometers, and without holidays since travelling is too poluting…( for the working class, of course…anyway you would not have neither time nor strengh…)
Of course, neither the UN, nor Bolsonaro, nor Europa Press, nor Greta Thunberg will say a word about that the US Armed Forces polute more than 140 countries together….Soon they will start telling us not to drink water, while no word will be said about golf courses…In the end they will come recommending us to stop breathing, because we are many and polute too much…After all, this will not be even new, Christine Lagard already said time ago that the elders live too much…With time that a UN´s directive or will arrive recommending to die before retirement with the arguement of not being a charge to the next generation….
What all this trasluces is that what they try to transform us into a famished legion, since the working class starts becoming ungovernable…
What do you think all those films on hunger games were for?
As we are assisting to the rewritting of WWII with subtle, or not so, whitewashing of fascism and a gradual return to pre-industrial revolution conditions in labour, I will not discard that we hear one day that as an environmentalist, Hitler was relieved to know that people are biodegradable….( There is a guy at SST, Armstrong´s Russian SitRep, saying that “Stalin is responsible of millions of deads, through multiple means, while Nazis only of hundreds of thousands”…and nobody has debunked the hoax…or at least has not been published…)
Finally, a miscellany of Twitts/articles…to illustrate all this….
An image worth thousands words, CIA´s Hong Kong counterrevolution…
https://twitter.com/berlinconfidenc/status/1159904330536947712
The Central Civil Registry has published on Friday in the Official State Gazette (BOE) the names of 4,427 Spaniards killed in the Nazi concentration camps with the complicity of the Franco regime.
( This is only Spaniards, not counting gypsies, Roma, Jews, German and other European nations´Communists and so on…)
https://twitter.com/MentxuCoslada/status/1159773949200392193
Poverty prevents 700,000 Spanish households from eating healthy
Large-scale blackouts affect London and South East England…But it is Maduro who is ruinning Venezuela…
Since the markets and not the public initiative take care of everything, they have not spent a pound on the electricity grid.
https://twitter.com/sacedator/status/1159908237388505088
The United States Army pollutes more than 140 countries
300,000 liters of 💧to irrigate a golf course once.
A single golf course spends more water than a medium-sized city, but that data does not interest.
In response to UN Environment Twitt on the liters of water consumption to produce meat…
https://twitter.com/ciudadfutura/status/1159783015767322624
I am wondering now what would be the carbon footprint of both The Donald and his strong supporter Pat Lang, well known meat eaters 24/7, profiteers of the MIC or golf afictionate and golf “entrepeneurs”….
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 10 2019 11:24 utc | 253
john @252
Yes and I agree with all that I said. I am sorry if that appears bewildered to you.
When I said that ‘I am not actually wedded to voting’ I did not mean that I would not vote (to be clear, I would vote).
I have said elsewhere in this blog that it is the whole collective experience, and that would be up to and including voting, not the vote itself, that is important to me, it is the collective engagement and involvement that is important. So, that would be entirely consistent with that my position of voting and not regarding the actual vote as important. I would not engage in the policy debate that a campaign would entail then at the end opt out of voting.
And it is important because there is an absence of any other collective movement/experience, which I see as the fundamental weakness of Americans as a cohesive collective that knows what it wants and knows how to get it.
I voted when I was young, opted out for a huge period of my middle years, returned to voting in the old years. Never, ever voted for a candidate/policies that achieved a majority, disappointed when young, sulked for 30 years because I didn’t get what I wanted, regretted this and returned to voting as a greyhair because of all the wars, Gladio events, poverty, and homelessness, etc. I observed that as voter engagement reduced, conditions worsened and concluded that it was a mistake to opt out of the process; I appreciate that others may reverse the cause and effect that I am suggesting, but I think that is mistaken.
As regards your objection @197 as far as I can see I’ve answered your objection, we just disagree. My view is that it doesn’t matter whether you vote or don’t vote (or whether your vote is with the majority) you are still responsible for what your government does and not voting doesn’t absolve you of that responsibility. You may feel that by not voting you are not responsible, not tainted but I’m afraid you are, as am I.
Posted by: ADKC | Aug 10 2019 11:42 utc | 254
James you are correct. As a Canadian jazz aficionado with a tendency to fall into line with JR’s defeatist pro-Trump viewpoint on voting (whether purposeful or not scarcely matters), your halfwitted contributions to these threads are mostly gatekeeper noise.
Maybe you should find a Canadian political blog?
Thanks to ADKC, Gruff (never ever thought I’d type those words lol), bevin and Karlof1 plus the many others who have not succumbed to what formerly t bear accurately described as ‘TDS’ DS. That is, the psychological state of being spun so hard for so long by a mere handful of fake alt media sources that one devolves into becoming a complete tool for authoritarian fascism while bereft of simple awareness of this mind boggling devolution.
For instance, JR admits he was fooled into first voting for Obama, then fooled into voting for Trump. Ergo, at what point do we realise that he is simply a fool and tune out his pro GOP agit prop, now stuck as it is on a yellow life vest schtick preserver known as “direct democracy” (aka meaningless jargon)?
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 11:47 utc | 255
I also come back to the importance of an idea finding its acceptance with a critical mass audience…and the 2018 Gallup poll which indicated 57% of self identified Democrats favour socialism.
Then I look around and find AOC, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Talib, Alyssa Pressley, et al, the class of 2018, all tipping their hats to Bernie Sanders.
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 12:07 utc | 256
Donald Trump won the last election in the places where most people did not vote.
Had there been a third candidate non-voters would have agreed on the third candidate would have won.
Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2019 12:29 utc | 257
Women, especially women of colour, will inspire and lead the revolution.
Bet on it
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 12:37 utc | 258
Well, after a US Embassy operative in charge of “political issues” was caught redhanded meeting the organizers of Hong Kong riots and colour revolution in a well known luxury hotel, it seems that they have decided to go out in the open withour disguise/alibi.
LOL!
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1160153238823247872
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 10 2019 12:43 utc | 259
Out of impotence, thinking that nobody will probably show for today´s anti-government this time sanctioned rally, Financial Times Moscow Bureau Chief, blames rainy weather on… Putin!…
https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1160112299488796673
When, as the heavy rains and floods in Siberia clearly show, this has been the tonic of this summer in Russia except for isolated days…
https://twitter.com/berildumaan/status/1160142681684742144
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 10 2019 12:49 utc | 260
Yemen’s southern separatists take control of government military camps in Aden – official
Reuters
Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 10 2019 12:52 utc | 261
And speaking of women, nary a mention here about Pocahontas, whose reams of detailed, progressive policy prescriptions in lieu of charismatic telegenic media personality have found her gaining in the polls to the extent she is now tied with her friend Bernie behind the establishmentarian Uncle Joe.
Combined, she plus Bernie, plus Tulsi have more support than Biden.
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 12:59 utc | 262
it looks like Jeffrey Epstein was just suicided, any attempt for real justice for his victims or to discover how he got his money, who was backing him and which politicians and billionaires were involved just went down in flames
Posted by: Kadath | Aug 10 2019 13:24 utc | 263
@Posted by: Kadath | Aug 10 2019 13:24 utc | 264
To see if he has really commited suicide or he has been released ans shiped on witness protection program with another identity to an unknown “Fantasy Island” where he may even meet the dissapeared Skripals too…
Posted by: Sasha | Aug 10 2019 13:40 utc | 264
@ Sasha,
quite possibly, the point is that we’ll never know the true story of his crimes now. The Lame stream media will now bury the story entirely and no one will ever talk of it again on CNN/MSNBC/Fox (only RT and, god help us, Infowars will keep talking about this). The fact that he was “suicided” before the trial had even begun after such a public arrest and allegations of high profile corruption means that trust in the authorities and the mainstream media will plunge even lower than it is now. If Epstein’s backers thought that this would be cause this whole episode to disappear down the memory whole, then I think their wrong, it will just discredit US authorities and the economic/political elite even more. The US seems intent on replicating and expanding on all of the worst features of the Soviet Union, a collapse seems unavoidable at this point.
Posted by: Kadath | Aug 10 2019 13:56 utc | 265
@ADKC #182
Fair enough – upon review, your comments were in response to someone else’s.
I would note, however, that there was plenty of blood around the 1917 revolution – it was just mostly on the battlefields of Eastern Europe as opposed to Moscow or St. Petersburg.
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 10 2019 14:14 utc | 266
@james #237
I considered that possibility, but dismissed it upon reading about Gabbard’s obsessive use of her military past.
Really hard to reconcile the specific nature of her service, its use as political capital and a “Road to Damascus” type conversion.
Equally, her messaging is very inconsistent. She’s for peace in Syria, but apparently is ok with sanctions on Iran (voted for that Senate act). She’s said she’s for the 2-state Palestinian solution, yet she agrees with Adelson on a number of issues like online gambling.
Thus while she has some attractive positions on Afghanistan and Iraq, sadly these seem more like name plate attractions with very little else of substance.
To be clear, my personal viewpoint on any Presidential candidate is the likelihood that they will even attempt to take on the entrenched interests in the United States that are destroying its social contract. Sanders, despite his F35 views and subservience to Hillary, at least talks the good talk in this front.
Sadly, it is clear that the 2016 style DNCC focus is replicating for 2020 – so Trump is (IMO) in the pole position for re-election.
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 10 2019 14:25 utc | 267
@ somebody | Aug 10 2019 10:04 utc | 251
”As a result of this audit, we learned that an institution that was created to serve all Americans had been hijacked by the very bankers it regulates.”
If that’s Sanders’ position, then he’s either massively ignorant on the subject, or he’s lying. The so-called “Federal” “Reserve” (it’s neither) was created by and for bankers, in large part to make sure that control of banking in the US would remain in the hands of the largest New York bankers, and that they would be able to drain the US economy into their own hands into perpetuity, and at the expense of the US population.
Read G. Edward Griffin’s “The Creature from Jekyll Island,” and/or Ellen Brown’s “Web of Debt” if you wish to gain an understanding of what the Fed is really for, for whom it was created and why, and how it works.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Aug 10 2019 15:00 utc | 268
The diagnosis….
https://www.sott.net/article/311740-For-heavens-sake-please-do-not-poison-my-mind-with-the-US-elections
The remedy….
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52071.htm
Posted by: denk | Aug 10 2019 16:21 utc | 269
INdo/Pak tinderbox,
HK on fire,
TW tension,
SCS skirmish,
swine flu in China,
economic blitzkrieg,
IRBM in Oz, SK ….
Ian Fleming says….
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence…..
What’ll [[[they]]] think of next ?
Posted by: denk | Aug 10 2019 16:33 utc | 270
@238 grieved… thanks grieved, but i got the impression karlof1 was into some movement by sanders…sanders is a pawn in the dem establishment as i see it.. that sounds like a movement inside a party to me.. maybe it can break out of the party at some point if it got big enough..
@256 donkey quote. “Maybe you should find a Canadian political blog?” jesus donkey.. are you really that stupid? this is b’s blog and b isn’t an american… okay – you clearly are that stupid!! as a consequence, i don’t know how anyone can take you seriously! pardon my error here, lol…
@268 c1ue… thanks.. i have to agree with your conclusion too..unless something changes, it is 2nd term for trump…
Posted by: james | Aug 10 2019 17:07 utc | 271
somebody @ 251
Your last word is Duh!, an indication of your presumed superiority. I concede that. However, you might be interested to know you have mixed up Ron Paul with Rand Paul. Father with son. Member of the House of Representatives with Senator. And two different attempts to pass bills to audit the Fed.
Posted by: sarz | Aug 10 2019 17:39 utc | 272
AntiSpin @269–
I saw in one of your earlier comments that you reside in the Willamette Valley where your tomatoes are wilting. You have my sympathies as I have the opposite problem of dealing with the fog the valley heat draws to the coast here in Yachats. If you’d like to communicate outside of this site, try adding @ action net dot net without any spaces to my moniker and send a hello.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 19:54 utc | 273
james @272–
Sanders began his 2016 campaign with the specific goal of starting a Movement as he felt gaining the nomination well out-of-reach. How he managed the fallout of the campaign negatively impacted his initial goal, and he appears to have redoubled his efforts to do the same this time knowing he handicapped himself by his 2016 behavior. This requires Balls and clearly puts the Medicare For All issue front-and-center for the Movement that requires building. For us here, this is clearly becoming a Political Fight of the sort Hudson saw as required to prompt the Movement building:
“While poll after poll continues to show that the American people are increasingly supportive of Sanders’ Medicare for All proposal—especially when survey questions are framed without industry-friendly talking points designed to scare consumers about costs or benefits—the corporations that have the most to lose if the for-profit system goes away, such as private insurers and drug manufactures, have mobilized their deep-pocketed public relations machine to stem the growing demand for a more cost-effective and universal system.”
Of course, you’re free to think what you want about Sanders, but you should be very thankful you live in Canada where you have a better governmental system and universal health care, and no massive overseas Empire to support or drag you down morally.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 20:10 utc | 274
james @ 256
Lol. I was just kidding dude. You know I don’t want to go anywhere else. I do wish you would generally up your political game into something a bit more…constructive. Some sense of realism and maturity is required for you to do that so I know it’s a long shot…. [insert smiley face here]
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 20:17 utc | 275
dont want you to go anywhere else. I’m sure you probably want me to leave. Lol….
I’m steadily in agreement with Karlof1’s take on Sanders in particular and US politics in general. He’s a realist. Hard realism is required….look where this endless sense of idealism has led…
Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 20:20 utc | 276
@275 karlof1… thanks.. it is commendable what sanders is doing on that front and you are correct, i am lucky to live in canada with regard to that too, although it is being eaten away by the same forces bernie wants to challenge.. so kudos to bernie for all that!
i still believe the number uno issue facing the world and the usa in particular today is this constant war agenda that is being spearheaded by the usa.. i sure wish some politician in the usa had the balls to address that and turn it into a movement… the fact is, canada and the rest of the world suffer directly from the usa’s actions on the world stage.. i am not letting canada off on any of their responsibility in following the usa into the gutter in all of this either… good luck with bernie and the democrat party.. i just can’t see it here, but i hope i am wrong and bernie is met with great success..
@ 276 donkey.. first line – i missed that then! as for the rest – we all do what we do and it is not to everyone’s liking obviously! from my own pov there is a lot of realism and maturity in my position – but i am not you and again, we will have to agree to disagree on different issues too.. cheers james
Posted by: james | Aug 10 2019 21:24 utc | 277
Maidan disaster being used to train HK protesters:
“Heavily promoted films & videos that misrepresented #Maidan massacre are now used to inspire #Hongkongprotest, while videos of luring & shooting of Maidan protesters by snipers from Maidan-controlled buildings are still unreported by West & #Ukraine media.”
james @278–
For over 30 years now, I’ve argued that the $1 Trillion+ spent on the Outlaw US Empire’s Empire and its foundation is a massive waste much better spent at home doing what the Constitution advocates to “form a more perfect union.” As such, I made it my #1 point-of-business to understand all I could about that Empire and how it came to be, which as I discovered is an extremely broad, never-ending topic to research properly while trying to stay abreast of contemporary affairs. My argument’s always been logical and seemingly self-evidentiary, but it never seemed to resonate with people for reasons I can’t explain–nor can they.
Have you heard of the late Father Daniel Berrigan? As the link shows, he had partners, although never enough. He was either extremely foolish or full of more courage and conviction than thousands–millions. I mention him because to overcome the Outlaw US Empire needs a Movement led by people with his convictions and courage–and you’ll admit with me that such people are rare, which is one reason why no such Mass Movement has arisen. As we age and we look forward and back on what’s to come and what was, a few have the notion that they need to go out the right way–that they’re now free to challenge The Machine now that they’ve not much to lose or to do it for posterity, for their grandkids, etc. I see an increasing number of Baby Boomers developing that conviction and acting on it, often with their grandkids in tow.
Now you know more about where I’m coming from and the direction I’m aiming at. That’s why I characterized the Epstein thread as a Soap Opera since it’s totally misdirecting the bar’s attention just as a good Soap Opera does.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 22:00 utc | 278
@279 karlof1.. thanks.. i might have heard of him, but it would have been a long time ago – father daniel berrigan..
i commend you for your goals and aspirations karlof1… you have my respect!
regarding the epstein thread -you will note i haven’t made any post on that thread, nor do i plan on reading any of it either!
on a related note, i am reading a book at present by nassim taleb – ‘skin in the game’.. i am about 50 pages in.. this is the 4orth or 5th book by him i have read.. i like what he says.. i think this in relation to your comment on baby boomers and what their legacy might be.. he talks about ethics, morals and how many people make decisions that aren’t all that helpful in the long run, to their own or the society we live in… trying to make up for that in the later part of life is still commendable…
stay away from the soap operas!
Posted by: james | Aug 10 2019 22:23 utc | 279
james @280–
Yes, I noticed your absence and figured it was your good sense. Enjoy your book and evening! Hopefully, we’ll have a more worthy topic to discuss tomorrow.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 22:40 utc | 280
The chart at this tweet is for those who aren’t convinced we need to change the way we live our lives. It proves the world’s in the midst of environmental overshoot using the resources of 1.75 Earths!
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 23:02 utc | 281
I just came across the article in the link below and figured MoA barflies would want to read it as well
Who’s Afraid of Tulsi Gabbard? by Matt Taibbi
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 11 2019 0:41 utc | 282
Below is the complete posting by Reuters about SA response to the take over of Aden in Yemen
”
CAIRO (Reuters) – The Saudi-led coalition fighting in Yemen has attacked zones that pose a direct threat to a vital position belonging to the coalition-backed Yemeni government, Saudi state TV said on Sunday.
“This will be the first operation and would be followed by another if the coalition’s statement was not complied with,” state TV said. It did not give details of the operation.
The coalition has called for an immediate ceasefire in Aden, the seat of the internationally recognized government, and said it will use military force against anyone who violates it, Saudi state news agency (SPA) reported.
”
It seems calling for a cease fire is a sign of weakness, no?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 11 2019 3:45 utc | 283
psychohistorian @284–
Canthama writing at SyrPers posted a very intriguing comment about the new feud between Saudi and UAE. I can’t link to it directly, but it’s towards the top of the page in a reply to poster TEP @ 8 hrs ago–it’s @930 PDT. It seems we should thank Iran for that development.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2019 4:39 utc | 284
Below is a link to an editorial from Strategic Culture and a chilling take away quote
Washington’s Utterly Failed Diplomacy
The take away quote
”
When diplomacy, negotiations, dialogue and respect for sovereignty are so utterly disrespected by Washington – whose only response is sanctions and military aggression – then we should know that the present description of American power is not hyperbole. It is a lamentable description of reality whereby American diplomacy is no longer extant. It is becoming way past the possibility of conducting normal relations with this paranoid, lawless rogue regime. A nuclear rogue state, too, capable of destroying the planet on a whim or paranoid rush to its sick brain.
”
Here we are in WWIII and there are almost 300 comments in the latest thread about the Epstein debacle……..
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 11 2019 5:32 utc | 285
karlof1 @ 279 says:
That’s why I characterized the Epstein thread as a Soap Opera since it’s totally misdirecting the bar’s attention just as a good Soap Opera does
curious how you pine so for a movement of paradigmatic proportions with confused allegiances, copious historical footnotes, and a never ending book list, and yet feel the necessity to whine about b’s reporting on what could be an actual catalytic moment of public perception in regard to the perfidy of our oh so corrupt ruling class…
…not to mention that it’s a scandal of yuge breadth.
Posted by: john | Aug 11 2019 10:53 utc | 286
it’s not just Epstein, it’s the whole financial/luxury business ponzy scheme behind it, and it’s also Epstein/Wenstein and what the so-called socialites impose as a norm on other ppl on this planet
Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 11:22 utc | 287
karlof1 @279
Concerning the Epstein discussion, there are only three possibilities:
1) Epstein somehow really did commit suicide (low probability).
2) Epstein was spirited away by the CIA/mafia and is now in a CIA safehouse back in southern Florida or maybe Israel (more probable)
3) Epstein was murdered by the CIA/mafia (most probable)
While it is fun to speculate upon which of those scenarios is most likely to be the case, the truly interesting thing about the Epstein discussion thread is the amount of effort being invested to sell the official narrative, which is what the New York Langley Times published above the fold. It seems that the urgency with which the official line is being promoted is on par with, or even exceeds the full court press to sell the Skripal poisonings, the MH-17 downing, and the Syrian chemical weapons official narratives.
As much as the discussion has soap opera characteristics, the management of the narrative of this issue is clearly one that the imperial establishment considers of the utmost importance.
Isn’t that interesting all by itself? It is for me as it suggests that even the most outlandish speculations concerning the Epstein affair are understating the depth and scope of the case.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 13:26 utc | 288
@281 karlof1… thanks.. i was out playing music last night..
in relation to the epstein topic, i agree with others here – mina, william g and john – it is a very big scandal with a lot of undercurrents, but frankly i’m beyond speculating on it and will watch what probably ”doesn’t” unfold around it..
Posted by: james | Aug 11 2019 15:57 utc | 289
FWIW
Please keep everything ‘Epstein’ on the several ‘Epstein’ threads in play. For myself, I neither want to know of Epstein’s life and doings, nor his passing. What is even more a matter of consternation would be the lack of surprise about the time, the place or the circumstance of Epstein’s passing as if this would be an expected course of events. Nonetheless, there is nothing about Epstein that I want to see or know so please stifle whatever urge you may have to spread that sewage here. Thanks in advance.
@ karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 19:54 utc
May a short personal comment be sent as well?
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 11 2019 17:12 utc | 290
john @287–
You’ll have noticed that most of my comments consisted of others’s Twitter-based observations, at which I also read the entire related thread to get a sense of other people’s perception, and I did that from both “left” and “right” dimensions, which provided me with a lot more insight than what wasn’t being discussed on that thread. My critique focused on the thread’s content, not the event that generated the thread. If you’ve read my previous comments on the entire Epstein Case, I acknowledged it’s potential to become a massive scandal and derided the attempts to sensationalize it since doing so often serves to distract from the facts of the matter.
Building a Movement based on what may or may not be revealed in the Epstein Case won’t do the job that’s required. The massive corporate resistance to Medicare For All that Sanders is broadcasting does have the potential to do that AND lays bare “the perfidy of our oh so corrupt ruling class…” What Epstein might do is bring together left and right as both agree about the level of corruption that must be expunged from the federal government.
William Gruff @289–
Much of what I wrote to john works as my reply to you. Yes, I certainly noted what was going on, which is why I chose to comment in the manner I did. flankerbandit did an excellent job in noting the greatly increased level of trolling, so I didn’t think I needed to add to his efforts. Yes, now that they’ve exposed themselves, detailing the Establishment’s Narrative ought to become an article in its own right; in no way was I attempting to belittle b’s initial article or efforts. Given what I read on Twitter, b will have lots of company from other investigators and that weight will hopefully put Trump’s DoJ’s feet to the fire. A large segment of the public knows it was hoodwinked by Russiagate and they aren’t at all in the mood to be messed with again. Will it become a campaign issue as john thinks it should? Perhaps, but how to employ it? Tie the obvious corruption linked to Epstein to all the other ongoing corruption of which there’s an immense amount? We shall see; of that, I’m certain.
Formerly T-Bear @291–
Please do. Thanks!
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2019 18:46 utc | 291
Formerly T-Bear says:
Nonetheless, there is nothing about Epstein that I want to see or know so please stifle whatever urge you may have to spread that sewage here
or what, Formerly T-Bear, you gonna throw another hissy fit and storm off into the ether for another year’s sabbatical? well, fuck off…and take all of your pseudo highbrow horseshit with you.
really quite astonishing the level of animosity expressed for b’s Epstein thread. by some of his most avid admirers, no less. and why? one of the more open windows, close to home, on the tyranny descending on all of us…
SECOND MURDERER
A light, a light!
THIRD MURDERER
’Tis he.
FIRST MURDERER
Stand to ’t.
BANQUO
It will be rain tonight.
FIRST MURDERER
Let it come down.
(from Macbeth, Act 3, Scene 3)
Posted by: john | Aug 11 2019 20:21 utc | 292
karlof1 says:
Will it become a campaign issue as john thinks it should
no karlof1, i don’t put much stock in electoral politics, as you know. making something a campaign issue has become, to my mind, a good way of suffocating it.
but as a catalyst bridging left and right, this Epstein chicanery could amount to something more than just a baby step in the general public’s awakening…or at least that’s what i’m hoping…
Posted by: john | Aug 12 2019 12:50 utc | 293
@ john | Aug 11 2019 20:21 utc | 293
You’ve mail in your astral mailbox – a dear john letter, safe from GCHQ and Cia eyes, not even google can find it, but it is especially for you.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 13 2019 10:35 utc | 294