Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 05, 2019

India Will Come To Regret Today's Annexation Of Jammu And Kashmir

The right-wing nationalist Hindutva government of India under Prime Minister Narendra Damodardas Modi just revoked autonomy for Jammu and Kashmir. This will create a civil war that could easily evolve into new conflict between the nuclear armed India and Pakistan.

Jamma & Kashmir - bigger

A bit of history is necessary to understand the issue:

At the time of the British withdrawal from India, Maharaja Hari Singh, the ruler of the state, preferred to become independent and remain neutral between the successor dominions of India and Pakistan. However, an uprising in the western districts of the State followed by an attack by raiders from the neighbouring Northwest Frontier Province, supported by Pakistan, put an end to his plans for independence. On 26 October 1947, the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession joining the Dominion of India in return for military aid. The western and northern districts presently known as Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan passed to the control of Pakistan, while the remaining territory became the Indian state Jammu and Kashmir.

The Instrument of Accession was limited to certain issues. It did not dissolve the autonomous state:

The Instrument of Accession signed by then-Maharaja Hari Singh of Kashmir in October 1947 specified only three subjects on which the state would transfer its powers to the Government of India: foreign affairs, defence and communications. In March 1948, the Maharaja appointed an interim government in the state, with Sheikh Abdullah as the prime minister. The interim government was also tasked with convening a constituent assembly for framing a constitution for the state. In the meantime, the Constituent Assembly of India was conducting its deliberations. In July 1949, Sheikh Abdullah and three colleagues joined the Indian Constituent Assembly and negotiated the special status of J&K, leading to the adoption of Article 370.

This article limited the Union’s legislative power over Kashmir to the three subjects in the Instrument of Accession. If the Union government wanted to extend other provisions of the Indian Constitution, it would have to issue a Presidential Order under Article 370. The state government would have to give prior concurrence to this order. Moreover, the constituent assembly of J&K would have to accept these provisions and incorporate them in the state’s constitution. Once Kashmir’s constitution was framed, there could be no further extension of the Union’s legislative power to the state. This secured J&K’s autonomy.

Incidentally, this was the reason for listing the provisions of Article 370 as “temporary” in the Indian Constitution: the final contours of the state’s constitutional relationship with the Union were to be determined by the constituent assembly of J&K.

Today Amit Shah, the leader of India's Upper House, announced the unilateral revocation of Article 370 (and the related Article 35a).

Home Minister Amit Shah announced that the government has issued a notification in effect scrapping Article 370 from the Indian Constitution. Article 370 of the constitution is a ‘temporary provision’ granting special autonomous status to Jammu and Kashmir.

Furthermore, the government also ordered the division of Jammu and Kashmir into two Union Territories. While the Union Territory of Ladakh will be without a legislature, the Union Territory of Jammu and Kashmir will be with a legislature. “We have four bills on Kashmir. We are ready to discuss everything and give answers on everything,” Shah said, amid chaos in Rajya Sabha.

The move created an uproar (vid) in the parliament.

J&K is majority Muslim. It is of strategic importance as the headwaters of Pakistan's main water source, the Indus river system, are situated in J&K's mountains. Pakistani nationalist believe that it should be part of their state.

Jamma & Kashmir - bigger

When the U.S. incited and supported Muslim extremists to attack the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, the movement spilled over into Pakistan and J&K. During the 1980s and 90s a Muslim insurgency, supported by Muslim Pakistan, fought against Indian soldiers. Hindu inhabitants of J&K were pushed out. The 12.5 million inhabitants of J&K are since under Indian occupation. Between 500.000 and 700.000 Indian soldiers are stationed in the state. During the last decades the conflict largely ceased and there were recently not big incidents. Up to today Pakistan had no current interest to escalate the issue.

But the fascist Modi government, just recently reelected, needs to feed its radical Hindutva base. J&K's special status protected its inhabitants from overwhelming migration of Hindus from main India. Modi will now push his followers to move into the state. His aim in the end is to create a majority Hindu state in a currently majority Muslim one.

Last week India ordered all tourists to leave J&K. Since yesterday all communication lines to J&K are cut. Local leaders were put under house arrest and all schools and public institutions are closed. Thousand of troops were additionally send into J&K.

It is inevitable that the actions today will lead a new insurgency in J&K and beyond. Even if Pakistan's Prime Minister Imran Khan does not want to support a new guerilla army in J&K, the military and other nationalist Pakistanis will push to supply it with everything that is needed.

This prediction is likely to come true:

1. [..] I feel reasonably comfortable making the following prediction: strictly seen from the perspective of maintaining the current territorial status quo in Kashmir, the Indian state will come to regret this decision within a decade. Even if it holds on to the state in its entirety, it just made its job a lot tougher and costlier. I also think it has opened up wiggle room -- diplomatically and legally -- that did not exist before.

2. Relatedly, I believe no institution is happier today than [Pakistan's Military General Headquarter]. No, not even the RSS or Times Now or Republic TV. Congrats to Modi and Amit Shah for doing more for Pakistan's position than anyone in Pindi could have hoped for. There's a dissertation and a half waiting to be written on popular right wing nationalism at home leading to dumb and overreaching shit abroad (I can think of some recent cases).

3. Anyone in Delhi or DC or on anywhere else who tries to pin this on any "external threat" should never be paid attention to again. Trust me, I'm more than aware of the times when Pakistan's behavior has been key to how India behaves in Kashmir, but this time ain't it.

The Indian Express has live update of the situation. The Dawn from Pakistan also provides live coverage.

Posted by b on August 5, 2019 at 9:14 UTC | Permalink

next page »

As you say, B, it seems that Modi hopes to replicate in Jammu-Kashmir what China has been doing in Tibet. Still, they have to be bonkers to do this. Resistance, guerrilla and open rebellion are the most probable outcomes. Besides, elections are over. There's no political need to do this now; it would've been more politically appropriate a few months ago. This won't end well and many, in J-K, India and Pakistan, will suffer for it.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 5 2019 9:29 utc | 1

No! Moon of Alabama sir, India had state troops from Patiala and RSS paramilitaries present in Jammu and Kashmir far before its never-proven acquiring of the 'Instrument of Accession' and they were helping conduct pogroms for the same reason the current scrapping of the special status for Occupied Kashmir has been done: demographic change in favour of Hindus.

Saeed Naqvi
What was the death toll in the killing fields of Jammu? There are no official figures, so one has to go by reports in the British press of that period. Horace Alexander’s article on 16 January 1948 in The Spectator is much quoted; he put the number killed at 200,000.

To quote a 10 August 1948 report published in The Times, London: “2,37,000 Muslims were systematically exterminated – unless they escaped to Pakistan along the border – by the forces of the Dogra State headed by the Maharaja in person and aided by Hindus and Sikhs. This happened in October 1947, five days before the Pathan invasion and nine days before the Maharaja’s accession to india.” Reportedly, as a result of the massacre/migration, Muslims who were a majority (61 per cent) in the Jammu region became a minority.

Mountbatten was in control in Delhi and had news of the genocide of Muslims in Jammu filtered out of the media. Sadly, there has been precious little discussion in India about this horrible phase of history.'

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 5 2019 9:58 utc | 2

Please be wary with Hindu victimhood propaganda. Read the following well sourced article on 'Kashmir: Exposing the myth behind the narrative' by Khalid Bashir who documents using primary sources that the 'Hindi Pandits expelled from Kashmir by evil Muslims' part is bullcrap Indian propaganda. And propaganda which at the time served to scare Hindu Kashmiri Pandits into fleeing their areas so a calculated crackdown could be launched on Kashmir's uprising Muslims.

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 5 2019 10:04 utc | 3

Or nothing will happen.

Saudi prince seems to have been in India

During his visit to Islamabad, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for bilateral cooperation worth $20 billion. The crown prince who was honoured with Pakistan's highest civilian honour called it a country "dear" to all Saudis.

Sources said Saudi Arabia's investments in Pakistan cannot be compared with India. Saudi Arabia was not investing in India to bail the country out, but because it was a robust economy growing at nearly 7 percent, they added.

There has been a remarkable transformation in bilateral relationship in the last four-five years and "it is Pakistan that should be feeling insecure," they said and added India does not see its relations with Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis Pakistan.

and this

“Practically every village along the picturesque, poplar-lined, 60-km stretch northwest of Srinagar towards Gulmarg has one or more Ahl-e-Hadith-funded mosques. The new mosques and their attendant madrassas make for a contrasting picture with the hundreds of dilapidated mosques built over centuries in the age-old Sufi tradition,” Mr Jolly reported.

“The Wahhabi influence is not new to Kashmir as followers of this Islamic practice have been there since the last 100 years. But the phenomenal growth in their influence and their far and wide reach now can be attributed only to the funding the local ‘Ahle Hadith’ have got from Saudi Arabia in the last 30 years,” said an Indian intelligence official more recently.

Added analyst Abhinav Pandya: “Kashmir is becoming the ground zero for a new geopolitical race for influence: Iran and Turkey have deep, sometimes overlapping interests, Saudi Arabia wants to ensure a return on its financial and ideological investment… The question is whether these states…will weaponize those supporters in a future proxy conflict between themselves, or between separatists and India itself.”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 10:15 utc | 4

Indian actions in Kashmir sparked the 1988-onward armed insurgency, supported by Pakistan.

The 'Hindu victimhood' BS is a lie. The Pandits were scared by the Indian imposed Governor of the time, Jagmohan Malhotra, into believing the rising anti India fervour would target them. This link provides several first hand sources which testify to the contrary happening, i.e to killings by freedom fighters targeting both Muslim AND Hindu if they were seen to be collaborators with the Indian occupier:

India wanted the Hindu Pandits fleeing so that Muslim-only zones could be made and Muslims eliminated. Malhotra even claimed as such openly. He said 'every Muslim is a separatist' and said they'd all be targeted.

Please understand the demented state that India is.

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 5 2019 10:18 utc | 5

the view from India

Delhi to Tehran via US India’s gameplan in Iran-Afghanistan has been damaged because of the Trump administration’s strategy Two pillars of India’s regional foreign policy are shaken today because of the American strategy in what Donald Trump calls the Middle East — the relationships with Iran and Afghanistan.

The delicate equation New Delhi had established with Tehran has not survived the new US sanctions. India could not resist the American pressures regarding oil imports from Iran: It stopped them in May in order to comply with the renewed American sanctions. It does not import oil from Venezuela either — increasing further its dependence from Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Iraq.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 10:24 utc | 6

Also regarding Indians' pathetic attempts to portray Kashmiris sick of Indian atrocities as 'radicals' (thus appealing to the very prominent leftist bias that Islamists must be extremists in every scenario):

'But radicalised by what? The growing influence of “radical Islam” (read Wahhabism or Salafism and the Jamaat-e-Islami) and groups like Al Qaeda and the Islamic State, a prolonged exposure to violence, the erosion of Kashmiriyat (a dubious recent invention), have all been offered as the causes. A few who have the scruples but cannot breach the sacrosanct nationalistic line call it “anger”. All these labels pre-suppose that a Kashmiri is incapable of articulating any political position unless worked upon by external influences or some behavioural maladjustment that triggers anger.'

'No theory has more forcefully and consistently been pushed as the one that maintains that the “weakening of Sufi Islam” and the “spread of Wahhabism” has radicalised the youth to the extent that all they seem to do is to participate in anti-India protests, post so-called seditious posts on Facebook, support the Pakistani cricket team, throw stones, pick up arms or come in between militants and soldiers during a gunfight.'

'Nothing but ignorance of religious movements in Kashmir informs this line of thinking (or unthinking). The Ahle-Hadith or Salafi movement in the Kashmir Valley is 120 years old. The first Ahle-Hadith mosque was established in Srinagar in 1897. The founder of the movement, Anwar Shah Shopiani, a native of Shopian district in the Valley, had been influenced by the Salafi movement in the then undivided Punjab. Hence, more than a Saudi-funded ideological import, the Ahle-Hadith movement was inspired by similar strains in India and such Indian Ahle-Hadith scholars as Moulana Sonaullah Amritsari, Abdul Qasim Banarasi, Abdul Aziz Rahimabadi besides earlier reformers like Shah Waliullah Dehlavi and Syed Ahmad Barelvi.'

'Another founding Ahle-Hadith leader, Sayed Hussain Shah, whose father was a caretaker of a shrine in Srinagar, received his education in Amritsar. The Jamaat-e-Islami and the Deobandi school, which are also associated with political Islam, developed in India.'

'The Ahle-Hadith movement in Kashmir has thus seen the Dogra monarchy, the anti-monarchy Quit Kashmir movement, Partition, the genesis of the Kashmir dispute, the plebiscite movement led by Sheikh Abdullah, the rise of the separatist Muslim United Front, three wars over Kashmir, the armed insurgency of the 1990s, and the formation of the Hurriyat Conference. During these turbulent 12 decades, the only time the Ahle-Hadith leaders participated in any of these events in a major way was when the largest Ahle Hadith organisation, Jamiat-e-Ahle Hadith, became one of nearly two-dozen constituents of the undivided Hurriyat in the mid ’90s. However, after the Hurriyat split, the Jamiat did not join either of the factions. Along with the Jamaat-e-Islami it had attempted to unite the two, but its leaders abandoned even those efforts after the assassination of its president Moulvi Showkat by militants.'


'None of the first-rung leaders of the Hurriyat Conference is a Wahhabi. The second rung too has not more than three or four leaders from the Ahle-Hadith. (Interestingly, Javed Mustafa Mir, a legislator of the ruling Peoples Democratic Party is from the Ahle Hadith.) Not a single militant in the recent past has emerged out of any Ahle-Hadith madrassa in the Valley. There is a single Salafi theology school in Srinagar, which is perhaps the only religious institution that had been cleared by the government for foreign funding.

The man who galvanised last year’s uprising in four southern districts of Kashmir was Sarjan Barkati, a Sufi preacher. He is still in jail. That is why many people who are active in the resistance privately begrudge the political inertness of the Kashmiri Ahle-Hadith whose counterparts in West Asia are synonymous with political Islam. Many observers therefore believe that creating an Islamist bogey in Kashmir is the unconscious desire of the State, if not part of the counterinsurgency project. It serves the Indian state to dismiss pro-freedom demonstrations and stone throwing by schoolgirls as an outcome of radicalisation, preferably religious, instead of having to acknowledge it as an act craving political change.'

'By 1990, when the armed insurgency started in Kashmir, about 550 of the total 750 Ahle-Hadith mosques affiliated with the Jamiat-e-Ahle Hadith had already been set up across Jammu and Kashmir. Srinagar alone had more than 30 by then. Both the Jamiat-e-Ahle Hadith and Jamaat-e-Islami actually were at their zenith before the insurgency started. Their religious programmes got significantly curtailed because of the situation and also because of persecution. Dozens of Jamaat men were killed by government forces and the government-sponsored Ikhwan militia, forcing hundreds of families to migrate to Srinagar from rural areas.'

'Referring to former US President Bill Clinton’s foreword to Nelson Mandela’s book, The Long Walk to Freedom, Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front chairman Yasin Malik, said: “Clinton recalls that when he asked Mandela why the ANC [African National Congress] resorted to violent means, the African leader told him ‘that the nature of the struggle is not decided by the oppressed people but by the oppressor’.”'

'Malik, whose organisation gave up arms in 1994, added: “In 2008 Kashmir made a transition to a peaceful struggle. How did the state respond? Since then we have been shouldering the coffins of our youth.”'

'He continued: “The majority of the militants who have been killed in recent times had been forced to pick up arms when the state agencies went after them and turned the lives of their families a hell for the sin of having resisted peacefully during 2008 or 2010.”'

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 5 2019 10:34 utc | 7

India is a mess. But so is everybody else. The world is a mess.

Posted by: mike k | Aug 5 2019 10:38 utc | 8

Does anyone know how to sort out and solve the world mess? No? I thought not.

Posted by: mike k | Aug 5 2019 10:40 utc | 9

Prediction: None of the vast Modi-supporting Hindu diaspora will suffer any cognitive dissonance at denouncing the ethnic self-determination of their new hosts.

I can't think of any right-wing nationalism anywhere in the world with less self-reflection than that found in India. Not by a longshot.

The bigger issue with Pak-India is that Pakistan is on a severe long-term downward trajectory militarily relative to India. Given the intensity of their conflict this is dangerous because it leaves Pakistan with no other good options than to leverage it's nuclear weapons.

Posted by: Altai | Aug 5 2019 11:07 utc | 10

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 5 2019 10:34 utc | 7

I don't think what Kashmiri people feel or believe is a factor in this.

Trump is trying to extricate US troops from Afghanistan and needs Pakistan for this.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 11:11 utc | 11

> Besides, elections are over. There's no political need to do this now;

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 5 2019 9:29 utc | 1

Elections in USA are not over, they did not even started.

More so, stressing and with some luck breaking SCO and OBOR would be US-hegemonic goal regardless of any elections shared by any practically possible DC regime.

Modi is doing what he told to do, like Poroshenko did in Ukraine.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 5 2019 12:27 utc | 13

@ mike k,
Get rid of the mental illness of religion. That would solve 90% of the world's problems quickly. Also since I am dreaming, get rid of the sociopaths who are the ultra rich. A pox on society they are.

Posted by: Tonymike | Aug 5 2019 12:36 utc | 14

Just remember folks ... Tulsi Gabbard is still a friend of Narendra Modi, even if she has distanced herself somewhat from Modi and his Hindutva following. Her stand on the Jammu-Kashmir issue undoubtedly will say much about her attitudes to Pakistan, other Muslim nations and Islam generally, and by extension about her foreign policy direction.

Will she treat all nations equally or will some nations be more equal than others in her eyes?

Posted by: Jen | Aug 5 2019 12:45 utc | 15

In view of the anniversaries of bomb tests 2 and 3 (Hiroshima/Nagasaki) let's remember that Groves said the bomb was to control Russia (said in March of 1944), not Japan.

And let's read fun stuff> (url is broken-up) http://blog. 2017/04/10/president-bomb-iii/

Title> The President and the Bomb, Part III

The Plan to control Russia has evidently failed...

Oh yes, there's Coster-Mullin and his gadget... (look him up)

Posted by: Walter | Aug 5 2019 12:58 utc | 16

As a religion, in consideration of religion and belief systems only, I prefer Hindu. It offers many gods and one can favor any one or number of them. Seems friendlier, more peaceful and less restrictive than Christianity and Islam. Very colorful and ridiculous characters.

Mankind can never stop killing each other over territory, resources, power or anything. It is very sad.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Aug 5 2019 13:02 utc | 17

@mike k | Aug 5 2019 10:40 utc | 9

Krishnamurti did. And so did a number of other enlightened Beings. The problem with enlightenment is simply that in order to get there, one has to have the desire to get there. Too many people on Earth believe to be exceptional.

India and Pakistan make no exception to this fact. If you count the number of exceptional Nations on Earth, you will find out why the world is in such dire straits.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 5 2019 13:35 utc | 18

Another resource war. We are already deep into the era of resource wars, but in some respects just warming up too.

Anyway, Modi has already given copious evidence of being a mediocre narcissist, and the Hindutva people look like vanilla asshole "exceptionalists" to me, just not one of the Western versions of exceptionalism.

I quite agree Modi/India are going to regret it, and soon, and the trouble won't come from Pakistan, Mr. Khan will do his best to stay out of it, he is no fool. But Modi is, so that may not help much.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 5 2019 13:46 utc | 19

There is an Abbottabad, Pakistan link to the Kashmir.

Pakistani militants that are actively fighting against India in the Kashmir have deep roots in Abbottabad -
Harakat-ul-Mujahedeen (Harakat). Harakat was set up with the ISI (Pakistan's version of the CIA) blessing more than 25 years ago.

Abbottabad - remember the take-down of a phony Bin Laden in Abbottabad by Seals/CIA?

The CIA has claimed that a phone seized from the courier that was eliminated in the compound in Abbottabad had
contact information to both the ISI (Pakistan's version of the CIA) and to Harakat commanders.

The courier, it is reported, was the first to die in the compound during the raid.
Was he the prime target of the raid?

I have wondered...

If a trusted al Qaeda courier could be fooled into believing he was carrying messages from "Bin Laden" - a CIA/ISI controlled "Bin Laden" -
then the CIA/ISI could infiltrate, even pass instructions, to al Qaeda.

Was a safe house established by the ISI in Abbottabat and
populated (with CIA blessing) with relatives of Bin Laden and
a look-alike Bin Laden in order to fool one key courier?

Bin Laden's relatives could be told that they were protecting the real Bin Laden
by establishing a network of decoy Bin Ladens. One of these decoys was
in the Abbottabad compound they were told. Bin Laden's relatives were providing an
essential service to Bin Laden by staying put and playing a role.

The ISI would entice the courier to go to the compound.

All the CIA had to do was continue to monitor the courier's phone and see if he
actually believed he was interfacing with the real Bin Laden. The role of the
phony Bin Laden was to pass (CIA written) messages on to al Qaeda.

If the courier expressed doubts (over his phone) about the charade in the Abbottabad compound
then the whole ISI/CIA operation would have to be shut down so it could be tried again
elsewhere. The Seals were sent in to sanitize the compound and shut down the operation.
They were, of course, also told that they were going to see Bin Laden and his relatives
in the compound.

Sanitization Operation:

After the raid:
The body of so-called "Bin Laden" was immediately thrown overboard mafia-style to the bottom of the ocean.
Before we got to even see it.
Photos of the body were ordered destroyed or turned over to the CIA, out of reach of FOIA requests.
The helmet cameras were at first heralded! Hurrah !!, everyone said. But then we were told, "they never existed".
The witnesses, the Seals, were ordered silent forever. No witnesses. Forever.
The DNA was handled by the CIA itself.

Posted by: librul | Aug 5 2019 14:20 utc | 20

One can take this dispute back centuries if you like. But what is certain Kashmir has been a running sore since Partition and my own theory, which will doubtless be shot down by many cleverer than me, is that Mountbatten intended it to be.

It was clear by the end of the war that most peoples’ preference - a united India/Pakistan - was not a realistic hope. Endless books have looked why this should have been and try to apportion blame. The commissioner for Partition, Sir Cyril Radcliffe, had a very limited time to do his work and make his recommendations as to how the division should be made. By and large, most of his decisions were reasonably fair, and based on the presumed wishes of the majority of each district - except in the case of Kashmir, where Mountbatten seems to have overridden him. This area was majority Muslim with a Hindu ruler. There has been much speculation about whether Nehru “nobbled” the Mountbattens. I personally don’t think so.

My belief is that Mountbatten deliberately tried to create a structure that would fail, allowing India/Pakistan to re-unite in due course.

Most of my relatives and their friends, serving in India at that time, detested Mountbatten, and have gone to their graves believing that if Partition had been left in Lord Wavell’s hands, things would have gone much more smoothly. But everyone forgets - there was no time.

What is forgotten nowadays is the immense pressure Attlee was under (mainly from the Americans) to get out of India. Britain was bankrupt. Attlee chose Mountbatten because he knew that he was ruthless enough to solve the problem urgently in whatever way possible.

Mountbatten understood and loved India. Partition must have caused him great grief, as it did to most outside of Congress. Dr Jinnah did what he did because he had to - Congress left him no choice. But I believe Mountbatten hoped that time would re-unite the sub-continent.

Posted by: Montreal | Aug 5 2019 14:48 utc | 21

bjd @12

This link is dead:

No, it's just pining for the fjords. The link is alive.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 5 2019 15:05 utc | 22

Would it be an over-simplification to describe Modi's racial supremacist provocation as Hindu Nationalism with Christian Colonial characteristics?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 5 2019 15:17 utc | 23

@15 Jen

"Will she treat all nations equally or will some nations be more equal than others in her eyes?"

Well said. And if could I add...

In addition to Gabbard and India, how about applying that statement to all political leaders and their treatment of various countries and peoples?

George Washington's caution about entangling alliances and modern-day "special relationships" come to mind.

Meanwhile, for all the criticism hurled at the U.S. and its partners, this land grab by the Indian government should serve as a useful reminder that all governments can be up to no good.

Posted by: OutOfThinAir | Aug 5 2019 15:20 utc | 24

As per usual John Helmer was a few days ahead on the topic of Kashmir.

Mediation in the Kashmir Conflict Between India and Pakistan - Who is Lying?

The above concerns Russia but I have additional questions concerning what Hindutva Princess and CFR dream candidate Tulsi Gabbard has to say about all this. Has she effectively reprised the role of the the US Ambassador to Iraq crica 1980, when Saddam was told seizure of Kuwait would be perfectly fine?

Who's gonna take a stab?

Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 5 2019 15:48 utc | 25

OutOfThinAir @26

In fairness, I rather doubt anyone here expected any goodness from the Modi government, in much the same way nobody here expects anything positive from Brazil's Bolsonaro government. Among the legitimate posters here I see few who could be considered apologists for fascism, and most appear, rightfully in my opinion, to have low expectations for fascists achieving anything good for the human race.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 5 2019 15:53 utc | 26

Israel annexes the Golan, crickets, its the way of world nowadays, might makes right.

Posted by: steve baker | Aug 5 2019 16:07 utc | 27

India has revoked Article 370. So Jammu Kashmir is independent now, surely?

According to the linked article at, India's constitutional claim to Jammu Kashmir is explicitly through Article 370, so by revoking that article they revoke their claim on Jammu Kashmir.

Modi and his friends are extremists. Extremists in stupidity. Copying the most stupid moves of his hero Netanyahoo, one after the other.

Posted by: BM | Aug 5 2019 16:25 utc | 28

I wrote a very long response and it disappeared. OK then.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Aug 5 2019 16:29 utc | 29

What follows will be a battle between the people of Kashmir and the State of India to determine whether the abolition of Article 370 stands or falls, and the outcome thereof for Kashmir. I fear that battle could be very bloody - and mostly on the Kashmiri side.

What happens is the Kashmiris themselves proclaim independence?

Whatever happens it is likely to be a lose-lose scenario for both India and Kashmir.

Posted by: BM | Aug 5 2019 16:36 utc | 30

There's been quite a lot of border skirmishes between India and Pakistan recently and other jousting IMO that Imran Khan wasn't intent upon. Here're Khan's tweets from yesterday and the resulting thread. Here's his central point:

"It is time to end the long night of suffering for the people of Occupied Kashmir. They must be allowed to exercise their right to self determination according to UNSC resolutions. The only road to peace & security in South Asia runs through a peaceful & just settlement of Kashmir."

Khan also understands: "This has the potential to blow up into a regional crisis."

TASS has this report, which is a terse relation of the facts. Sputnik offers this report, which provides a bit more context. M. K. Bhadrakumar has yet to provide comment at his Indianpunchline blog, although that won't last much longer.

The relevant UNSC Resolution 47 is explained, which is what Khan refers to in his tweet. Pakistan has long accused India of willfully not doing its part to solve the problem. It was my hope that the addition of Pakistan and India to the SCO would see more dialog and a trend toward resolving their animosities and related problems, but this seems to be a hope ill placed.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2019 16:43 utc | 31

Modi has a true instinct for catastrophic moves. He will turn India's rise into a sub-continental shit-pile.

India had a destiny. Modi seems to have short-circuited it.

It is time that the very many bright and successful Indians coordinate a reformation and remove the likes of Modi and the usual politicos and replace them with professional leadership.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Aug 5 2019 17:00 utc | 32

@someone somewhere | Aug 5 2019 14:01 utc | 21

That’s a very simplistic historical take a la mode du jour because if the Mughals had not invaded India previously there wouldn’t have been a majority Moslem population in Kashmir in the first place. Granted the divide-and-rule strategy was used and subsequently bequeathed by the later colonial masters, but the Hindu/Moslem divide in India pre-dates the East India Company’s arrival on the sub-continent.

There’s something very dark about Modi. The religious faultline is right there, half an inch below the surface, it wouldn’t take much to cause it to explode and the potential for catastrophe on a huge scale is immense. God knows it’s happened before. I sometimes wonder if that is what Modi wants, that he sees some kind of blood-soaked metaphysical destiny for himself, a place in the Pantheon. He worries me.

Posted by: Ross | Aug 5 2019 17:06 utc | 33

steve baker | Aug 5 2019 16:07 utc | 30:

Nowadays? It's always been like that.

Posted by: Ian | Aug 5 2019 17:16 utc | 34

You people seem to imagine that Kashmiri people are

1. All Muslim
2. All ethnic Kashmiri and
3. All anti India.

Wrong on all counts.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | Aug 5 2019 17:22 utc | 35

It is time that the very many bright and successful Indians coordinate a reformation and remove the likes of Modi and the usual politicos and replace them with professional leadership.
Posted by: Red Ryder | Aug 5 2019 17:00 utc | 35

Be careful what you wish for, RR. The World has had more than enough profe$$ional leader$hip. What it needs now is a few decades of that elusive old daydream known as Representative Leadership.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 5 2019 17:30 utc | 36

Biswapriya Purkayastha @38--

I absolutely reject your false characterization of us barflies! If Kashmir was as you suggest, there most probably wouldn't be any conflict there. IMO, the stratification of Indian society is one of the main reasons for its backward nature--more effort's spent keeping people down than in lifting all up--and a similar statement could be made regrading Pakistan. IMO, South Asian development's been retarded by paying too much attention to the diktats of the Outlaw US Empire and its allies at the IMF and World Bank.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2019 17:43 utc | 37

On Article 370, India hasn’t violated any international treaty. That’s why world won’t reactttps://

Posted by: someone somewhere | Aug 5 2019 15:26 utc | 27

The claim makes a VERY dubious assumption that "world's reaction" (meaning the reaction of few governments that matter) is somehow related to legal analysis of the action. The linked article builds in that [expletive not selected yet] assumption and finishes the case by interpreting utterances of President Trump, well known for legal acumen and attention to legal detail.

Obviously, opening another conflict with India on an issue that foreign powers do not care at all is something that foreign powers will hesitate to do. Why they should bother with poring over all treaties? Perhaps that is actually a wise thing to do, but frankly, rather unprecedented.

India definitely can get away with it, but hard to see how it will be better off as a result. Hindutwa fans will have some fleeting pleasure, Muslim Kashmiris will resent it, perhaps deeply, the balance may show nothing but suffering and blood.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 5 2019 17:48 utc | 38

" what Hindutva Princess and CFR dream candidate Tulsi Gabbard has to say about all this. " Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 5 2019 15:48 utc

She HAS to say something? That goes against all principles of policy and politics. She has to pick some issues to voice an opinion, and for the rest, say nothing or offer some anodyne generics.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 5 2019 17:53 utc | 39

Maybe a mirror of this conflict might be found in literature:

Arundhati Roy, author of The God of Small Things has a more recent book, The Ministry of Utmost Happiness ISBN 978-0-241-30397-9 Hamish Hamilton, which speaks to/about India's relations with Jammu/Kashmir's indigenous population(s), a not too happy a novel.

Several other published works further illuminate modern India and its problems: Broken Republic, Three Essays; Field Notes on Democracy, Essays by …; Things That Can and Cannot Be Said, Essays and Conversations; Capitalism, A Ghost Story; The Cost of Living, all by Arundhati Roy about some aspect of her experienced life. An image emerges of a place that has not found its way into external consciousness.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Aug 5 2019 17:53 utc | 40

Cool story. If a truck driver can do it...:

Posted by: m | Aug 5 2019 17:55 utc | 41

Trump's new role: the anti China hater

Posted by: Passer by | Aug 5 2019 18:04 utc | 42

thanks b... i appreciate the update and viewpoint...

@40 karlof1.. thanks for stating that.. i agree..

why is this so connected to tulsi gabbard? i don't get that... did she say something about this??

as i see it, modi is making a big mistake here and not helping matters... khan on the other hand seems like the real statesman..

@somebody - thanks for the overview linking ksa to the development in this area the past 30 years.. that is my understanding too, but i don't know the details... it seems exporting wahabbism is what ksa excels at..

Posted by: james | Aug 5 2019 18:11 utc | 43

Kashmir is one thing but I guess this will destabilize India as a whole? 121 MPs passing the bill out of 237 total MPs (8 vacant places). The government has 116 MPs in the Rajya Sabha (upper house of Indian parliament).

Wasn't India about to finally settle the remaining border issues between India and China together in cooperation with China and won't this interfere and complicate? (Again I don't know enough).

Kristan hinton: one can always find violent sides to things but you might also like to explore Sikhism, Jainism, normal (current) Shintoism, and Chinese "folk religion" if you haven't. Then there's Buddhism which comes in a gazillion flavors but at least for me stuff like the Diamond Sutra (translated of course) is as impenetrable as if the words themselves were diamond despite being the oldest printed book in the world.

Biswapriya Purkayast: did your comment have a lot of links? If so it might have fallen foul of the link-checking software but might appear later.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 5 2019 18:13 utc | 44

Since I was at the age of having a political opinion, Jammu and Kashmir were part of a collection of areas under constant conflict. I was relieved when it looked like the people in the area would come to their senses. There is no alternative to living in peace with your neighbors.

However, being also aware of the present situation as a result of colonial interests in the region - and not only this one - the question must be How to pacify a region that has been abused to remain in eternal conflict?
As Krishnamurti correctly stated, Nationalism will not provide the solutions needed.

But what will make a difference in the region? Declaring the entire region neutral and off limits to foreign influence? There was once a mantra that called for "One Voice - One Vote". That mantra appears to be the only solution that might have a chance to pacify the region. Each 'Voice' must vote on how it wants to live. I bet you the results would likely surprise a lot of people. Including all of those involved.

But, less the nationalist hardliners - the exceptionalists - it is fair to allege that all people want to live in peace and harmony with their neighbors. Next door and next country. Therefore, those who do the separating of minds and people will be the greatest obstacle to lasting peace.

It is the responsibility of all people to make their voice heard. To peel out who it really is, that prefers conflict and barbarism over peace and harmony. Then show them the asshole card, because they might not know that they are holding it in their hands already.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 5 2019 18:16 utc | 45

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2019 16:43 utc | 34

It sounds like Imran Khan has used Trump's need for help in Afghanistan - and miscalculated.
But sure, Kashmir has minorities and diverse Muslim strands, and not necessarily a separatist majority.

It is not even clear if the part of the constitution that Modi scrapped was to their advantage. At least that is what UAE tries to make you believe.

Top Indian religious Muslim leader welcomes move on Kashmir

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 18:28 utc | 46

Formerly T-Bear @40--

Yes, Roy's writings are quite educational and illuminating as are those of Vandana Shiva, whose Stolen Harvest was a huge eye-opener for me. Roy's description of her travails with India's judicial system promote outrage and disbelief. IMO, India has yet to emerge form its feudal era, which is marked by the continuance of the Caste System, and the plundering of its wealth by its former colonial master. Worst of all in my estimation is India's lack of a genuinely holistic national leader aiming for the betterment of all rather than just the Brahman Caste. Comparing India's with China's development illuminates numerous mistakes by India.

james @43--

Gabbard's a Hindu and associates with and is supported by the Hindu American Foundation and others as is the norm within US politics. This Intercept item contains the now standard smear of Gabbard as an Assad apologist and tries to make connections when none seem visible and is one source. Gabbard soon responded here which was also reported upon here. Unfortunately, the media outlet that published her op/ed response isn't very well known or followed, which is why RT picked up the story to give it greater exposure.

There's much more available through the simple search of gabbard hindu, where you'll find the jacobinmag's hate-filled hit piece amid a host of others. Knowing her war/peace policy views make her an establishment target will inform you of the ultimate source of the vast majority of negative propaganda about her. But as I said after her vote against the right to pursue BDS, she's promoting double standards--particularly when you read her op/ed. I chalked it up to lack of political maturity, although it could also be a character flaw. Remember how Kucinich was treated. Gabbard's had a number of her essays published here and cover several years.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2019 19:20 utc | 47

somebody @46--

Awhile back, the issue of Kashmir was raised here and I cited Khan's tweets and other sources that proved his claims of India not trying to fulfill it's part of UNSCR-47 that I linked to above, Khan's primary point being the lack of action leading to more destabilization of the situation. As I noted, there's been a marked increase in border clashes between India and Pakistan since Modi's re-election, with the blame being rather hard to determine. Personally, I don't have enough information and deep enough knowledge of the situation to form any sort of judgment other than to go along with what the UN arrived at long ago.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 5 2019 19:31 utc | 48

@46 somebody

There is no such "top Indian religious Muslim leader." There are throngs of people like this who solicit your patronage if you visit the dargah at Ajmer. Must be hoping for a favor from the BJP.

Posted by: sarz | Aug 5 2019 19:54 utc | 49

Imperial divide and conquer strategy. Global strife aids imperialists. Russia, China, Iran unity threatens global Anglo Zionists. Consequently, the logical progression is to welcome India into Anglo Zionist alliance with more aid to their extremists (Modi) Emboldening extremists is always the way to war.

Posted by: Peter | Aug 5 2019 19:59 utc | 50

Posted by: sarz | Aug 5 2019 19:54 utc | 49

I realize this :-)) UAE seems to be on board with "fighting terrorists" in Kashmir.

There is some good Robert Fisk from February this year.

Israel is playing a big role in India’s escalating conflict with Pakistan ... India was Israel’s largest arms client in 2017, paying £530m for Israeli air defence, radar systems and ammunition, including air-to-ground missiles – most of them tested during Israel’s military offensives against Palestinians and targets in Syria.

Israel itself is trying to explain away its continued sales of tanks, weapons and boats to the Myanmar military dictatorship – while western nations impose sanctions on the government which has attempted to destroy its minority and largely Muslim Rohingya people. But Israel’s arms trade with India is legal, above-board and much advertised by both sides.
Signing up to the “war on terror” – especially “Islamist terror” – may seem natural for two states built on colonial partition whose security is threatened by Muslim neighbours.

In both cases, their struggle is over the right to own or occupy territory. Israel, India and Pakistan all possess nuclear weapons. Another good reason not to let Palestine and Kashmir get tangled up together. And to leave India’s 180 million Muslims alone.

Whatever. Considering that Israel has failed against Hezbollah and Hamas in a terrain that is not that difficult, I don't see how Indian troops will be able survive in the Himalaya. Should anybody be interested in a fight - which I don't see yet. But if India starts to apply Israeli concepts of population control there will be people interested in fighting.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 20:20 utc | 51

And as to confirm the facts, both side's extremists join the party... And both side's just show how that they mirror in their hatred, extremism, and ultimately, as B correctly stated, fascism.
IMHO we cant expect anything from both sides other than aggression, vionlence and at least the try for enthnic cleansing and even genocide by a thousand cuts.
Both sides can never be wrong, are always the victim and nothing else, and everyone who is not on their side is with the other side. Unable to see the other side as human beings.
Blut und Boden.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Aug 5 2019 20:20 utc | 52

Meanwhile China is rubbing its hands. Any trouble will weaken the Indian position on the contested Eastern area. If India pulls off its annexation, it will only do so in the Indian-administered part, and de facto relinquish the China-controlled part.

Posted by: fx | Aug 5 2019 20:31 utc | 53

That said, if there are solid arguments for Jammu and Kashmir valley to join Pakistan, Ladakh, which is half the Indian part, is a very differnt question, and they definitely shouldn't - being part Buddhist, part Shia, they would all suffer in a country where salafists can have such an influence and be so destructive - Khan notwithstanding, but there's only that much that he can do to put his country back on the right tracks. Heck, they might even be better off under Modi or inside China.
But then, that's the beauty when you begin to carve up countries and provinces, as was eventually found out in Yugoslavia and in Ukraine: if one part declares independance, what's to stop a portion of that independant-minded part of a country to actually want to secede from the secessionists?

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 5 2019 20:49 utc | 54

Courtesy of and ultimately from Twitter from one of the leaders now under house arrest Mehbooba Mufti (in no way an extremist according to that Wikipedia page):

India has failed Kashmir: Mehbooba Mufti

Former Jammu and Kashmir CM and PDP leader Mehbooba Mufti who was placed under house arrest said, "Today marks the darkest day in Indian democracy. It will have catastrophic consequences for the subcontinent."

"Decision of J&K leadership to reject 2 nation theory in 1947 & align with India has backfired. Unilateral decision of GOI to scrap Article 370 is illegal & unconstitutional which will make India an occupational force in J&K. GOIs intentions are clear. They want the territory of J&K by terrorising it’s people. India has failed Kashmir in keeping its promises. People like us who placed faith in Parliament, the temple of democracy have been deceived. Those elements in J&K who rejected the ???? constitution & sought resolution under the UN have been vindicated. This will exacerbate the alienation Kashmiris feel."

Already under house arrest & not allowed to have visitors either. Not sure how long I’ll be able to communicate. Is this the India we acceded to?
— Mehbooba Mufti (@MehboobaMufti) August 5, 2019

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 5 2019 21:01 utc | 55

Posted by: fx | Aug 5 2019 20:31 utc | 53

Not really. India supports Baloch nationalists. This destabilizes Pakistan, Iran and the Taliban.

China/Pakistan port of Gwadar is in Balochistan. There seems to be a Saudi, US, Israel, India proxy war against China/Iran/Pakistan/Russia.

It is not that simple as Saudi sells oil to China, and India, Saudi plus Israel are on speaking terms with Russia plus Saudi bankrolls Pakistan and US policies might change completely if Trump loses 2020.

Of course all bets are off should Modi manage to provoke a Hindu-Moslim civil war involving Pakistan.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 5 2019 21:25 utc | 56

Also read that some pilgrimages are being stopped in Jammu and Kashmir, the Amarnath Yatra one sometimes have as many as 600 000 pilgrims. Links for others like me who have never heard of either before.

Amarnath Temple is a large cave and shrine religiously important to Hindu and economically important to the local Sufi and Shia population due to them providing services to the pilgrims during Amarnath Yatra.

Machel Mata is a Durga (a/the main goddess with many forms including Kali) Hindu shrine.

Both only seem accessible at this time of year.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 5 2019 21:37 utc | 57

@Tonymike (14) ..."get rid of the sociopaths who are the ultra rich."

Of course, they became ultra-rich by being sociopaths. That is practically a requirement for attaining great wealth. (Also inheritance) So the question becomes: how to get rid of sociopathy? I have no answer, as sociopaths exist in every system and society--capitalist, socialist, religious, secular, you name it. To mash together two classic rock songs: You say you want a revolution; meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Posted by: Rob | Aug 5 2019 22:04 utc | 58

"My belief is that Mountbatten deliberately tried to create a structure that would fail, allowing India/Pakistan to re-unite in due course."
I agree about the intention to create a failed structure.
But that is what the empire does everywhere, in order to program new antagonistic pairs instead of peaceful development under mutual respect. One author made the remark that the empire creates an anti to the rivals. South vs North in the Us civil war. Zionism vs Nazism going together with communism vs fascism.
India/Pakistan. China/Taiwan. Ukraine/Russia.
This is no coincidence but illustrates the mindset of the imperialists. The latest era where islamism is being exploited against a series of targets is likewise not something spontaneously emerging or so called blowback but something the imperialsts have been planning since at the very least the Victorian era.
I have no doubt that the british elites may care for some of their targets. It helps for rulers to bond. But the pattern is unmistakable. And when they seemingly have too little time to 'fix it' that too happens because it was planned that way.

Posted by: Peter Grafström | Aug 5 2019 22:12 utc | 59

@47 karlof1.. thanks... it makes sense a faction would want to portray tulsi in any negative light they can, given her outspokenness anti war agenda.. wall st and the mic are out to get her too.. you are staying on it much more then i can keep up with.. thanks..

@ somebody.. thanks for the interesting links and info.. i wonder how much any of that has changed since the article @ 56 was written in 2017..

Posted by: james | Aug 5 2019 22:27 utc | 60

b, the trade war is escalating, For The First Time In 25 Years, US Treasury Just Designated China A Currency Manipulator.

Can you make an article on the situation?

Posted by: Passer by | Aug 5 2019 22:48 utc | 61


While China is busy with Hong Kong?

With USA blessing?

If so, this move could be part of a larger strategy.


The aim is still to convince Russia to rejoin the West - demonstrating to Russia that China+allies can't succeed.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 5 2019 23:43 utc | 62

@ Passer by with the OT request to b for a posting

I have commented on this situation in this weeks Open Thread and suggest MoA barflies respect b's posting guidelines and continue any such conversation over in that thread....thanks

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 5 2019 23:44 utc | 63

Peter Grafström @59: Yes, that's my impression too, anyplace that The Brits really had to let go of, as opposed to those who remained "allies", they made damn sure they would be too busy fighting each other to come after their former colonial masters. The extent to which the Amurkins and the British have made a habit of screwing each other is impressive too, being friends with either one can be worse than being an enemy or victim.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 6 2019 0:13 utc | 64

Passer by @61--

First, Trump coerced the Fed into lowering interest rates which made US Dollars cheaper to buy then he increased domestic taxation 10% though increasing the tariff on selected Chinese goods. China then blocks the importation of all US foodstuffs and lowers the price of the Yuan an amount equal to the tariff increase--and the US treasury and Trump have the gall to call China the currency manipulator! NO, as usual with the Outlaw US Empire, it's accusations are psychological projection of what itself does. Hudson discusses it here. US financial markets have finally awakened to Trump's moves and have fallen 5% over the last three trading days, with more likely to follow. Hudson on Trump:

"It’s all a diversion so that people won’t look at what’s really happening, only at what Trump is saying. But as people find that they have to pay higher prices, I don’t think they’ll believe Trump. I think he’s lost all credibility. That’s why the stock market’s collapsing. They’re aghast. They think that even Trump can’t get away with this big a lie when it’s so obviously false."

As I commented last Friday on the AP article my local paper ran about the tariff hike, it finally told the truth about who'll pay--US Consumers or China: US Consumers! AP, All Propaganda, tore a gapping hole into Trump's narrative--but will people believe a media outlet that's lied so often?

Trump can't win his global trade war. China won't capitulate; it's economy and society are 100x healthier than the Outlaw US Empire's and are resilient where the USA can only claim to have been once upon a time. Why that is has been explained before. The transcript of this interview's poor, but the topic covers the answer by showing how Canada's economy became a victim of the same predators as the USA's.

We know what happened, how and why. What we don't know how to do is reverse the situation politically. Hudson compares the dire situation to that of Rome:

"So they obviously, the left-wingers such as Bernie Sanders, want to run for president as a kind of educational campaign to make their policy clear to the people, but they know that there’s no way in which the ruling class will let them win.

"It’s been very clear, if they did win, they would be assassinated very quickly. I’ve been told that by presidential candidates. The threat is, you’ll never be president, we have ways of keeping you out, and should you succeed, we will do to you what the Romans did to every advocate of democracy century after century, assassination."

It seems the best those of us residing within the Outlaw US Empire can hope for is that Trump's policies will decimate US financial institutions worse than what occurred in 2008. Hudson's perspective:

"I don’t see any popular movement yet. You can very easily see why collapse is inevitable....

"There’s no way of knowing when there will be a break in the chain of payment. Usually it’s a bankruptcy of a big company, very often by fraud, as the 2008 crisis was bank mortgage fraud. You don’t know when people will fight back. Often, surprisingly, they only fight back when things are getting better. But things still have a way to go to get much worse in Canada, much worse in the United States, so I don’t see any possibility of reform within the next 4 to 8 years."

Pretty glum outlook.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 6 2019 0:26 utc | 65

With Indian politics are this criminally retarded, I can safely say India catching up to China's might will always be a big fat pipe dream.

Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 6 2019 0:36 utc | 66

Another question:

Given Russia's easy acquiescence on India's seizure of Kashmir, what will be said about Russia's easy acquiescence - or rather active support for, the Turkish seizure of northern Syria?

Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 6 2019 0:48 utc | 67

"First, Trump coerced the Fed ..."
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 6 2019 0:26 utc | 65

Analysis fail right there. Trump only coerces underage girls.

Posted by: O | Aug 6 2019 0:56 utc | 68


I am interested in your remark about Jacobin mag. A few weeks back I was having an an email discussion with the prominent Sanders supporter and he sent me a link to the hit piece on Tulsi Gabbard. All I could reply was " Smells to me a lot like Omidyar”. I was just guessing but this morning a friend of mine mentioned that he thought that mag actually is funded by Pierre! Couldn't find any attribution at the Jacobin website, do you happen to know? I'd like to know your opinion on that rag. To me it appears to be the gatekeeper to an imaginary left filled with academic incrementalists who happily accept that Bernie could not possibly be elected. I think they're horrified by Tulsi because they know that the presidential election is a charisma contest in which issues are practically irrelevant, and parsing the issues is where their bread is buttered. Is this contemporary operation Mockingbird? Is Pierre Omidyar the male-ish equivalent of" Kissy Christiane Amanpour? If you have a moment I would appreciate your take on all this.

Posted by: NOBTS | Aug 6 2019 1:03 utc | 69

PS. Realize my comment previous was slightly off-topic, sorry, I'll
try not to do that again.

Posted by: NOBTS | Aug 6 2019 1:34 utc | 70

NOBTS @69--

Given the similarity of the earlier hit piece published by the Intercept I linked to above, Omidyar could be the funding behind it, but I'm not at all certain. That it's a front for foisting neoliberalism off on unsuspecting readers like The Intercept is highly likely. But there seems to be a breaking of the ranks within BigLie Media as I pointed out regarding the AP piece last Friday telling the truth about who will actually pay for Trump's China Tariffs and Jake Tapper being called out. Rewind to 2015 and Gabbard's getting a similar amount of negative press Trump was provided that backfired. She can handle the pushback well. Her big hurdle to continue debating is to poll at least 2% in 4 different polls by the end of August as she's gotten more than enough individual donations. If she gets into the next round, she'll likely continue her taking down at least one of the "chosen;" and if that occurs, we should watch what the Media does then.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 6 2019 1:43 utc | 71

O #68 first Trump coerces underage girls !

Nah, he delegates that to Ghislane Maxwell. Odd how she is the darling of the New York set and not been dragged before a court or even an FBI investigation.

see magnificent polly on utube.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 1:47 utc | 72

"Religion is the greatest fomenter of hatred the world has ever known".

Forgot who said that, but it sure is true, given the state of the region being discussed.

Posted by: ben | Aug 6 2019 1:52 utc | 73


I see jacobin as a rag designed to catch those that drift to the open minded arena. It is one of many slightly ideological nets that bind escapees from the matrix and delay their journey or exhaust them with weasel words so they cease their inquiry. Ii feel the same about intercept and was alerted to their deception when Matt Taibbi rebonded from that nest after a very brief peek.

I keep my BS detector on at all times now. I am satisfied that Tulsi does too and I do like her style and warrior form. She has her eye on the prize and has been unwavering and not distracted or entrapped by exhausting skirmishes. May she remain strong and get well past that 2 percent threshold.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 2:01 utc | 74

oops Mat Taibi, rebounded from that nest. sheessh that was a bad typo.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 2:03 utc | 75

O above apologies see Amazing Polly

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 2:08 utc | 76

O @68--

Trump bullied Fed. Fed does what Trump demanded. Trump coerced Fed. Nuff said!!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 6 2019 3:50 utc | 77

karlof1&uncle tungsten

Here's one perspective on Jacobin et al:

Posted by: NOBTS | Aug 6 2019 4:29 utc | 78

Since I was at the age of having a political opinion, Jammu and Kashmir were part of a collection of areas under constant conflict.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 5 2019 18:13 utc | 44

Thanks for the reminder. Your use of the term 'constant conflict' reminded me of a military doctrine I stumbled upon in the early Noughties which was called Constant Conflict. The only thing I could remember about it, today, was that it was written by a psychopath and I did NOT like what the author was proposing.

I went looking for a piece of prose called Constant Conflict and found a reference to the piece I was looking for at...

It's dated 16.04.2016 and names the author as Retired Lieutenant Colonel of United States Army Ralph Peters and summarises the crux of Peters' thesis and and his background/mission statement. It also provides enough info to find the original 1997 article here...

The article concludes thus and there's a footnote...
"The next century will indeed be American, but it will also be troubled. We will find ourselves in constant conflict, much of it violent. The United States Army is going to add a lot of battle streamers to its flag. We will wage information warfare, but we will fight with infantry. And we will always surprise those critics, domestic and foreign, who predict our decline."
Major (P) Ralph Peters is assigned to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, where he is responsible for future warfare. Prior to becoming a Foreign Area Officer for Eurasia, he served exclusively at the tactical level. He is a graduate of the US Army Command and General Staff College and holds a master's degree in international relations. Over the past several years, his professional and personal research travels have taken Major Peters to Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Ossetia, Abkhazia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Pakistan, Turkey, Burma, Laos, Thailand, and Mexico, as well as the countries of the Andean Ridge. He has published widely on military and international concerns. His sixth novel, Twilight of Heroes, was recently released by Avon Books. This is his eighth article for Parameters. The author wishes to acknowledge the importance to this essay of discussions with Lieutenant Colonels Gordon Thompson and Lonnie Henley, both US Army officers.

Reviewed 8 May 1997.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 6 2019 4:48 utc | 79

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 6 2019 4:48 utc | 80

My screed at #80 should be irrelevant to a discussion about India-AfPak but, imo, it's NOT given that EVERYONE still refers to Al-CIA-duh as Al Qaeda.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 6 2019 5:08 utc | 80

Posted by: james | Aug 5 2019 22:27 utc | 60

They are still at it.

The problem has been Pakistan's ISI all along - and they used to be and still are allied to Saudi Arabia

From the link above

In 2016, Pakistan arrested an Indian national, Kulbhushan Jadhav, from the border region between Balochistan and Iran. Islamabad accused him of being an Indian agent who was sent over to work with Baloch insurgents.

Balochistan shares a long porous border with Iran and Afghanistan and Islamabad has accused India on multiple occasions of trying to foment militancy there.

The Pakistani military has also been accused of promoting religious groups to counter the narrative of Baloch nationalists.

Some members of these groups soon joined Daesh and other terrorist organisations, adding fuel to the fire.

India is late in playing the religious card and it is in the interest of Pakistan's ISI strategy. Imran Khan tries to get out of this but he is up against his own secret service. If the Taliban will remember that they speak Pashtu is anybody's guess.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 5:08 utc | 81

India is allied with America and Israel and shares with these fascist "democracies" a national hatred of Muslims--well, at least those Muslims who are not stupid enough to act as American/Israeli jihadist/terrorist assets around the world like in Libya or Syria.

Moreover, India is a Hindu fundamentalist nation that has made common religious cause with the Zionist fundamentalist state of Israel and the Christian fundamentalist state of America.

So perhaps India should emulate its fellow "democratic" ally of America and adopt the same ethnic cleansing tactics in Kashmir that the Land of the Free has deployed against Native tribes throughout the Indigenous lands that America currently occupies--from the Trail of Tears of the past to the DAPL pipeline protests today.

America's Future Is with India and Israel

Posted by: AK74 | Aug 6 2019 5:24 utc | 82

Posted by: AK74 | Aug 6 2019 5:24 utc | 83

Any colonial knows that patrons play all sides.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 6:26 utc | 83

No third country can affect Iran-Pakistan ties: Rouhani


Iranian Delegation Due in Pakistan to Address Problems Facing FTA: Envoy

Council of Ministers approves signing customs agreements with ECO states

The Council of Ministers convened on Sunday evening in a session that was chaired by President Hassan Rouhani and discussed a range of domestic and international issues.

During the session, the cabinet agreed with the signing of customs agreements between Iran and the Economic Cooperation Organization member states, noting the importance of coordination in customs relations for the development of foreign trade and pursuing the economic goals of the country.

The ECO region comprises ten member states including Iran, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Pakistan, Turkey, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Pakistan, Iran and Turkey are the founder members of the bloc.

The Council also authorized the Ministry of Roads and Urban Development to temporarily sign the amendment protocol for air transport agreement between the governments of Iran and Ukraine.

The government also approved the bill of “Agreement on International Transport of Passengers and Goods between the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Swiss Federal Council.”

During the session, the cabinet approved allocating credit and loans for reconstruction and repairing the damages caused by the earthquake in Masjed Soleyman, Khuzestan Province.

The credit that was approved was aimed at reconstructing 1,427 urban housing units and 93 rural units.

The Council of Ministers further discussed and approved allocating credit for the National Project for Investigating Floods.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 6:41 utc | 84

Something is happening in Saudi Arabia

August 5, 2019

A Saudi royal, Ahmed Bin Abdul Aziz, yesterday warned against “the kingdom’s involvement in a war with Iran.”

“I’d oppose the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman if he decided to join a US-British military alliance to confront Iran,” The New Khalij quoted Abdul Aziz as saying.

The brother of the Saudi King added that it was important for Riyadh to take measures to unify the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) instead of responding to US President Donald Trump’s plans, which he described as “pushing the region to the brink of war.”

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 6:46 utc | 85

'In 2016, Pakistan arrested an Indian national, Kulbhushan Jadhav, from the border region between Balochistan and Iran. Islamabad accused him of being an Indian agent who was sent over to work with Baloch insurgents.

Yes he was an innocent tourist, ex-naval officer from India who just decided to take a vacation heading to Pakistan's most desolate, barren and dangerous province where India happens to have supported a separatist insurgency since 2006.

Can't make this shit up.

Posted by: Agha Hussain | Aug 6 2019 7:22 utc | 86

and karlof1

That greyzone site was such a good read. Dontcha luv the trots. I needed a shower after reading that. Laughed when I finally found Amy Goodman on the list as I had been anticipating that name. Gawd its a strange world. Just a day or two ago I finally attended a gathering of old serious lefties and encountered one intelligent komrade of old who was adamant that Russia gamed the USA election, behaved horribly by sabotaging Hillary and then admonished me for thinking otherwise. I went to the bar and poured a good red and just shook my head.

The net-work of clear thinking traps and containment vessels that the matrix has deployed is disturbing. Thanks, I do like greyzone. I took a recent peek at NC after a few long years break and couldnt stay long. Another red was consumed.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 9:18 utc | 87

AK74 #83

Thank you for that and I would add that India has no doubt studied Israel government methodology in Palestine and will likely apply same with rigorous abandon against any non hindu, pro independence Kashmiri.

With the UN reduced to a whimpering gecko the chauvinist nationalists will be out and about with BIG sticks.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 6 2019 9:25 utc | 88

Various: A few opinions about sources based on lots of reading and with the criteria being useful, ideas, links, or news provided:

National Interest is a click-farm for the guns and national defense crowd. I once complained about the constant stream of gun porn that shows up in their "news" feed, got a polite answer but nothing is different. Generally useless for news, although sometimes have informative stuff from inside the NatSec think-tank apparatus, e.g. like the Peters piece referenced above.

Jacobin occasionally has a good article, is otherwise useless unless you are into commie political soap-operas.

Intercept: Obvious vanity news site, similar to Jacobin, "controlled opposition" as they say.

I read a variety of click farms to be fair, if they provide good links, everybody has to make a living. Zero Hedge for example, it posts several writers that I look for, so does Unz review, and I do not agree with anything much about those sites otherwise.

News and views are where you find them. More and more as time goes on, I rely on particular writers, rather than particular sources, because I know them, their work, like Moon of Alabama here. I believe they are sincere. Sincerity really stands out these days.

But generally, nothing is reliable. You have to rely on your self, learn from mistakes, learn from when you get it right too.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 6 2019 9:57 utc | 89

More peace news:

New York Times: America should talk to the Houthis

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 10:06 utc | 90

Paul Craig Roberts:

Tulsi Gabbard: R.I.P.

It is unfortunate that Tulsi Gabbard succumbed to the Israel Lobby. The forces of the Empire saw it as a sign of weakness and have set about destroying her.

The ruling elite see Gabbard as a threat just as they saw Trump as a threat. A threat is an attractive political candidate who questions the Empire’s agenda. Trump questioned the hostility toward Russia orchestrated by the military/security complex. Gabbard questions the Empire’s wars in the Middle East. This is questioning that encroaches on the agendas of the military/security complex and Israel Lobby. If fear of Israel is what caused Gabbard to vote the AIPAC line on the bill forbidding criticism of Israel, she won’t be able to stick to her line against Washington’s aggression in the Middle East. Israel is behind that aggression as it serves Israeli interests.

Posted by: tramp | Aug 6 2019 10:41 utc | 91

India is a big country!

they say the small state of Kerala, tucked away in the southwest, is 30 years ahead of the rest of the country. in 1957, it was the first region in the world to democratically elect a communist government. today, 60 years later, it leads India in literacy, wealth distribution, longevity, healthcare, and quality of life in general. for decades the Left Democratic Front has been a potent, secular, political collective envisaging itself on the avant-garde of a 100 year long revolution.

i have a friend from there where i wandered around for a month a couple of years the extent i can, i vouch for it. they enjoy something like 80% voter almost insignificant % of which are tallied for Modi and his BJP.

Posted by: john | Aug 6 2019 11:05 utc | 92

Just a point to consider is that this year a number of big cities in India hit "Day Zero" for water supplies. Next year groundwater supplies will be exhausted in many more Indian cities, so even if there is no disruption of the monsoon season like this year more cities will hit day zero. And the periods that they go without water will only lengthen in coming years.

Try to wrap your head around a city of 10+ million with no water for even just a couple days... then increase that waterless period to a week or two. How many days can you go without flushing your toilet before things go from unpleasant to crisis? How's your productivity going to be at the office unshowered and in unwashed clothes? And then there is the issue of lack of water for industrial processes, agricultural irrigation, and even stuff like fighting fires.

India is in the midst if a slowly unfolding environmental disaster, and there are no quick and easy fixes for it.

Now focus on this point that b brought up: "[J&K] is of strategic importance as the headwaters of Pakistan's main water source, the Indus river system, are situated in J&K's mountains.

Assemble the pieces. India is facing a dire future of chronically worsening water shortages. Indeed, they have been facing this problem for some time, but now the problem has become acute and is no longer something with impact in the future but is hitting them in the present. They cannot ignore the problem anymore. Of course they are eyeing with bad intentions all of that water being "wasted" on Pakistan.

Don't think water isn't something countries would nuke each other over.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 6 2019 11:12 utc | 93

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 6 2019 11:12 utc | 93

You are correct.

In other news Russia has granted Iran's security.

Russia Gains Stranglehold Over Persian Gulf In a potentially catastrophic escalation of tensions in the Persian Gulf, Russia plans to use Iran’s ports in Bandar-e-Bushehr and Chabahar as forward military bases for warships and nuclear submarines, guarded by hundreds of Special Forces troops under the guise of ‘military advisers’, and an airbase near Bandar-e-Bushehr as a hub for 35 Sukhoi Su-57 fighter planes has exclusively been told by senior sources close to the Iranian regime. The next round of joint military exercises in the Indian Ocean and the Strait of Hormuz will mark the onset of this in-situ military expansion in Iran, as the Russian ships involved will be allowed by Iran to use the facilities in Bandar-e-Bushehr and Chabahar. Depending on the practical strength of domestic and international reaction to this, these ships and Spetsntaz will remain in place and will be expanded in numbers over the next 50 years.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 6 2019 11:23 utc | 94

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 6 2019 4:48 utc | 79

Since I was at the age of having a political opinion, Jammu and Kashmir were part of a collection of areas under constant conflict.

That was me, not SRB - see above.

But that takes nothing away of the veracity of your response. Plus, the fact that it has indeed been a doctrine for a while now, makes it apparent that it could have been a sub-conscious connection. Or simple coincidence? The other areas I was speaking of were the Middle East, Central America and Northwest Africa. No wonder little has changed in these areas with that kind of Western doctrine. Shameful.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 6 2019 11:50 utc | 95

tramp @ 91

The ruling elite see Gabbard as a threat just as they saw Trump as a threat. A threat is an attractive political candidate who questions the Empire’s agenda. Trump questioned the hostility toward Russia orchestrated by the military/security complex. —PC Roberts

It's sad that the penny still hasn't dropped for our estimable friend Paul Craig Roberts. Russia is more besieged under Trump than Obama. Trump is doing his damndest, but Russia has him outgunned. Trump's inability to get a big war going is not from want of trying. Look at his "usable" nukes, developed at great expense for use on Iran. Then Putin solemnly states that the smallest nuke used on an ally will be immediately responded to as a nuclear attack on Russia. In case Trump should have any doubts, Putin sends his friend and national security advisor Patrushev to a much heralded meeting with Bolton and Netanyahu. The public part, headlined by Israeli papers, is that Russia considers Iran an ally. Yhey can put one and one together to get two. Privately, it must have been stated that any base from which a "usable" nuke is launched on Iran will no longer exist half an hour later.

Question: What world does PCR live in to still consider Trump an attractive camdidate? The Empire of private finance, including central banking, is more balanced and temperate than crypto-Jew and would-be big hero of Israel, Donald Trump. He's willing to risk everything for Israel, including the financial basis of Jewish power. That's why they are using their own usable nuke Epstein to bring Trump down.

Posted by: sarz | Aug 6 2019 12:00 utc | 96

This was greenlighted by Zionism International, due to Pakistans unwillingness to war Iran. Similar story to Wahhabi attack in west India.


Posted by: J | Aug 6 2019 12:10 utc | 97

Perhaps I might be wrong. But Saudis and Zionists no doubt played some sort of role.


Posted by: j | Aug 6 2019 12:12 utc | 98


War with Iran would DESTROY Saudi Arabia. The CIA would follow to swoop in and depose of MBS swiftly. Fear due to Saudi's own crimes is the only thing driving it.

Now, the US zionists will squeeze the Saudis if they try to drop out of the coalition.

Posted by: j | Aug 6 2019 12:28 utc | 99

@ ben | Aug 6 2019 1:52 utc | 73

That might have been me in another open thread about the delusive nature of religion and its devastating impacts on humanity. It should also be mentioned that conflicts are where religious delusions are most prominent. As is clearly visible in the regions of mutual borders between Jews/Christians/Muslims, Christians/Muslims, Hindi/Muslims, Buddhists/Muslims and so forth.

Although it must be reiterated, that it takes some religious leaders to rile up their followers, as those being simply members of their respective religions do generally have little problems living together. Because it is in the nature of humans to first be at peace with each other. History has shown that clearly.

It is the mentally confused/ill religious leaders that pray hate against members of their perceived inferior, or 'competing' religions. So yes, absolutely, hatred is part of any religion obviously - in spite of each one proclaiming to be 'peaceful'.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 6 2019 13:00 utc | 100

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