Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 10, 2019

Epstein Suicided

Unsurprisingly Jeffrey Epstein was found dead, presumably by suicide, as that is what 'officials' claim:

Jailed multimillionaire financier and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein has died by suicide, according to two law enforcement sources.

He was taken from New York's Metropolitan Correctional Center on Saturday morning in cardiac arrest and died at an area hospital, the sources told CNN.
Just weeks ago, Epstein was placed on a suicide watch after he was found July 23 in his Manhattan jail cell with marks on his neck, a law enforcement source and a source familiar with the incident told CNN at the time.

Just yesterday a court released the first 2,000 pages of a civil case against Epstein's madame, Ghislaine Maxwell:

The documents, the largest cache to be released in the 13 years since Epstein’s case began, offer brutal details about Epstein’s trafficking of teenage girls in Palm Beach, New York and overseas — as well as Maxwell’s obsessive and often abusive quest to provide him with new girls over a span of years in the early to mid 2000s.
[Epstein victim Virginia Roberts Giuffre], who turned 36 on Friday, names a number of other men in politics, academia and business that she says she was directed to have sex with. In a 2017 interview with the Miami Herald, Giuffre said that Epstein wanted her to please various influential people then so that he could learn about their sexual peccadilloes and use them as leverage if he needed to.

While there’s no direct evidence contained in the court record substantiating her accounts with prominent men, Giuffre did provide testimony and evidence to corroborate her claims of exploitation at the hands of Epstein and Maxwell through photographs, plane logs and even a medical record from Presbyterian Hospital in New York where Giuffre was taken by Epstein after a particularly abusive sex episode.
Some of the testimony released Friday is difficult to read, as when one 15-year-old Swedish girl, shaking and crying in fear, told a butler who worked for two of Epstein’s closest friends that she had been taken to Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean and ordered to have sex with him and others. The butler, in a sworn statement, said the girl, visibly traumatized, told him that Epstein and Maxwell had physically threatened to harm her and seized her passport to keep her on the island, according to the butler’s statement.

The released court papers can be found via Courthousenews.

Some of those influential people who Epstein, or the organization behind him, blackmailed, will be quite happy that he is gone. They will now try to bury the rest of the case. Giuffre and other witnesses better watch their backs.

Posted by b on August 10, 2019 at 13:50 UTC | Permalink

« previous page | next page »

Dear paranoid androids, take a breath. There is 20 years between the two pics and the ear DOES look similar. The nose has changed from aging.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 20:19 utc | 201

the mofo aint dead... if you believe his dead, you are easily manipulated.

Posted by: mofo | Aug 10 2019 20:20 utc | 202

Well this event ranks right up there on the convenient error list with the CIeh "accidentally" deleting the entire senate torture report a couple of years ago. Such a pity mistakes like this happen. But we must accept human fallibility. Everyone move along. Nothing to see here.

TPTB have again jumped the shark on this one.

Posted by: Yeah OK Right | Aug 10 2019 20:21 utc | 203

Miss Lacy @184--

Thanks for your reply!

This is the best comment I've read about this event: short, and 100% accurate without any need for follow-up:

"Literally nobody will believe Epstein killed himself BY himself."

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 20:23 utc | 204

within the Sicilian cosa nostra the determination of the greater value of someone dead or alive was always a cause for great deliberation. my stillborn point being...that i'm actually pretty impressed with how expeditiously they rubbed this guy out(man, the shit he must have known).

no doubt the bleating of our elected officials will subside in 48 or 72 hours and they'll be back to towing the line.

Posted by: john | Aug 10 2019 20:29 utc | 205

I can imagine they have had to tie Trump to a chair and put the phone in a vault + cut the wifi to prevent him from tweeting...

Posted by: Mina | Aug 10 2019 20:32 utc | 206

Okay, say Epstein was blackmailing powerful people and was hiding very bad stuff on individuals, like Trump and Clinton and the douche Zionist lawyer, for instance. There's a story out there that Trump did some very bad things to one of the girls. Wouldn't Epstein have given someone he trusted implicitly a way to find such evidence and expose those people should someone have him liquidated? Wouldn't an intelligent guy like Epstein was known to be have some insurance or payback from the grave to be triggered upon his death if your insinuation/suspicion is correct? If nothing surfaces then I'm not buying this theory.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 10 2019 20:32 utc | 207

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 20:15 utc | 200

From what I can gather Epstein was moved to a SHU after his 'first suicide attempt'.
"He had been placed on suicide watch after he was found in his cell in that unit “in medical distress” on July 23 with “apparent bruising on his neck” and was taken off the suicide watch six days later, The New York Times reported Saturday.

The person described the injuries from Epstein's first alleged suicide attempt as small abrasions around his neck, and said that while protocols were followed, Epstein had received no preferential treatment afterward.

He did get a cell to himself in the unit, where the rich man “lived like a pig in a sty” after that attempt, the person said, eating his meals off of the floor and constantly requesting more toilet paper.

Which again a SHU looks very hard to hang yourself in.

Posted by: O | Aug 10 2019 20:37 utc | 208

stavisky case :

Posted by: pr | Aug 10 2019 20:43 utc | 209

Too bad Assange isn't sitting on Epstein's alleged secrect cache of yet unseen material, if it exists cause so far we only know what the girls are alleging and who they named, but where's the proof?

Posted by: Circe | Aug 10 2019 20:46 utc | 210

An addendum to my comments about the 'concern' trolls...

Apparently it is not just the 'credibility' of this website they are 'concerned' about, but also 'inciting discord on the comment board...'

So glad this additional 'concern' has been brought to my attention.

We certainly wouldn't want any 'discord' now would we?

We should just stick to making vague and vacuous comments that take no discernible position either way but simply serve to DILUTE and DISTRACT FROM the principal issue under discussion, usually by means of long tracts of irrelevant and meaningless verbiage.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 20:46 utc | 211

There were jokes all over the internet about how Epstein would be murdered to protect the powerful for whom he provided under-age girls for sex. Now he has committed 'suicide' after being put on a suicide watch following injuries in prison. A suicide watch is paper clothes, 24-hour surveillance, a cell with no means for committing suicide. And yet ... The contempt with which the powerful view the public is really astounding. MSNBC's Joe Scarborough is claiming the Russians are involved ! They really believe we are all drooling idiots.

Posted by: SteveK9 | Aug 10 2019 20:50 utc | 212


Epstein was removed from suicide watch 7/29.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 10 2019 20:53 utc | 213

This observation is even better than the one I posted that was then eaten by an unappreciative Cloud:

"Only the rich can manage to commit suicide in jail even when they are under a suicide watch."

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 21:00 utc | 214

Once again:

1) Epstein could've run ... but he voluntarily flew back to USA.

2) Ghislane has not been detained or charged - despite serious and credible allegations that have been known to the authorities for years (well before yesterday's document release).

3) Epstein was alive when he left the prison. He was pronounced dead in the hospital where it would've been easy to switch him with a body and secret him away.

Epstein was probably allowed to get away. He simply had to ingest some chemical/medicine that slowed his heart. That gets him to the hospital.

If TPTB want us to believe this shit show, they have to show us the video surveillance and show the body to the women who were abused. Oh, and arrest Ghislane.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2019 21:02 utc | 215

I find it interesting that OffGuardian has an open comment section for the Epstein case and there are a number of comments that may have just been copy pasted from here. Slightly altered. Emphasis on slightly. Well, it is a page that I frequent, too for its reporting on fake guardian stories and the page was also helpful in the Skripal affair.

OffGuardian Epstein Suicide Discussion

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 21:04 utc | 216

It's quite obvious that you are the troll.
A pathetic try, but it makes quite sense.

Go and do a Cheney. You pathetic twat.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 21:09 utc | 217


The profumo affair

And now we need the Russian :-))

But when reporters refused to relent about his supposed role in exploiting teen models, Listerman refused to respond, eventually blocking the Daily Beast reporter from his Instagram and Facebook pages. But the online news outlet did catch up with model Krista Goncharova, who provided further details regarding Listerman’s reputation and behavior, referring to him as “the world famous seller of young models to oligarchs.”

Listerman began sending Goncharova private messages in 2016, allegedly trying lure her to become one of his girls.

“I had enough of a brain to turn him down when I was a minor but many girls look for a chance to meet with him, say yes to his offers, as he is paying them much more than [$334], the average of what we make per day working as professional models in Europe,” she said.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2019 21:12 utc | 218

@ flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 20:46 utc | 210

So glad this additional 'concern' has been brought to my attention.

It's quite obvious that you are the troll.
A pathetic try, but it makes quite sense.

Go and F yourself if you can get that done. You pathetic twat.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 21:13 utc | 219

A very 'concerned' but clearly 'earnest' commenter made this incredibly insightful observation...

This is the takeaway for me. Since I cannot know what happened, whom should I trust to receive the truth?

Ahh indeed...we must all strive to 'recieve' truth and at the same time 'receive' wisdom.

But from where oh where to 'receive' these divine gifts?

Of course it is pointless to use that round thing sitting on top of your shoulders, and under your hair.

We all know that's not the way to let's not go there, shall we?

Maybe prayer is the answer?

'...Let us receive today our daily truth...Amen.'

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 21:14 utc | 220

213 Cont'd--

Sorry, got the quote wrong. This is correct:

"Only the rich can manage to commit suiocde in jail even when they are under a suicide watch."

The bolded word actually exists as per the author. Fortunately, he provides the definition:

"No, suiocde refers to garrulous people when they commit suicide."

All from the same thread I linked to. Definition of garrulous: "given to prosy, rambling, or tedious loquacity: pointlessly or annoyingly talkative."

Epstein was garrulous?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 21:21 utc | 221

Isn't it convenient that the document dump contains info beneficial to Trump? That ONE VICTIM says that Trump didn't abuse her doesn't clear him.

Does anyone with half a brain think that a man that needs a new model wife every 10 years and is so desperate that he cheats on his pregnant wife with Stormy Daniels would not have partaken in Epstein's delightful "massages"?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2019 21:25 utc | 222

add to 217

The Russian trace is getting close

Boris Nemtsov, the opposition politician and critic of Vladimir Putin assassinated in 2015, wrote about Listerman in his book Confession of a Rebel. Soon after Putin’s first election in 2000, Nemtsov, a Russian parliament member at the time, stayed in the same hotel as Putin and businessman Vladimir Potanin in the French ski resort of Courchevel. “We come downstairs and see around 10 long-legged girls. Potanin and I were in shock. It turns out Petia Listerman, a famous ‘promoter’ brought them.” Nemtsov asked Listerman why he brought the women to the hotel: “But you are also men, after all,” Listerman said, assuming that explained everything.

I am sure none of them were "in shock". But outfits like Peter Listerman's (or Epstein's) operating in this manner could be secret service stuff.

This here is Russian Courchevel,

Posted by: somebody | Aug 10 2019 21:27 utc | 223


If i may: when dealing with spectacular news such as this, the first rule of thumb is to let the rumour mill settle and begin drawing conclusions only a few days later when a sufficient amount of undisputed facts can be collected. Sometimes the theme is just too interesting to block thought processes, in which case, the rule can be a little relaxed based on an evaluation of the plausibility of the facts claimed (ie. WTC towers fell in 911 - plausible fact, i am not there to confirm but multiple people are and vouch for it, faking such will lead to an inordinate string of lies). I am sure we all do this, we just need to keep track at all times of what can be considered fact and speculation.

There is just no point in spending energy when the theme simply does not provide for anything more than speculation, immediate or mediated (unless we feel rusty wrt own logic processes).

One of the reasons this feels so surreal is because, beyond media and tainted opinion, there are institutions involved vouching for the impossible while inadmissible. Also this Epstein affair is not exactly one day old, and there some established facts conditioning possible conclusions, drawing from the latter only further aggravates the predicament. This can't be ignored and it can't be happening...

We are unbelievably fuckedup!

If US Americans themselves can't grab their own balls and sort their shit, I am sure they will not find anyone else who will. Which leads me again back to:

We are unbelievably fuckedup!

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Aug 10 2019 21:27 utc | 224

A scapegoat, typical jewish.

Posted by: fayez chergui | Aug 10 2019 21:32 utc | 225

I am having a hard time deciding whether we are a banana republic or a Mafia State.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Aug 10 2019 21:33 utc | 226

You prove Einstein was correct in his assessment about human stupidity.

A quick internet search reveals that you are what you accuse others of. It's called 'psychological projection'

flankerbandit DDG search

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 21:36 utc | 227

Post-coup Honduras is both a banana republic and a Mafia state. Not mutually exclusive.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 10 2019 21:39 utc | 228

reply to
Epstein dead body pic?
Posted by: Lozion | Aug 10 2019 15:33 utc | 48

Nope,this picture is from the NY Post and is photo shopped. Look at the size of Epstein's head, far out of proportion and the "body" is far too small.
But the best part is this photo was taken in a NY fire station. See the orange panels on the wall on the right, they are labeled NYFD.
See the sign on the far right, it says "shut off engines." Which is standard in fire stations but NOT in hospitals. Hospitals keep ambulance's engines running. Look at the hose on the wall on the right, the wall is dirty, would not be the case in a hospital. This photo is from a NYFD drill.
There is a second photo from the NY Post that also appears to be of a drill, the body on the gurney is far to small and the three attendees show no sign of urgency or emotion, again a drill, this one in a hospital.
My guess? Epstein is sitting somewhere waiting for the plastic surgeon's team to prep him.
As for the charges against him, the only good thing is now that he is "dead" he can't block any of the information from his prior conviction being released nor any of the evidence that was picked up at his various homes. So charges against his clients/friends can be initiated, the girls had best be put into witness protection while this moves forward.
The real joke is the FBI are handling the investigation, if Barr has any Moxie he will replace them with Federal Marshals.
The same goes for the "shootings" which are so flawed I won't even start on the issues with them.
Barr should assign Fed Marshals to those investigations as well.
This is an all out assault on Trump to get him to curtail second amendment rights, if he does he loses the election, I hope he is smart enough to realize that.

Posted by: frances | Aug 10 2019 21:42 utc | 229

JR @ 221
That's what I thought, too. The document charade seemingly wraps up Trump's dealings in the whole affair. Or should I say, David Dennison's involvement, since he's on the incomplete flight logs 5x.
Funny how even the pro-Trump gang at ZH are calling whitewash on Barr's statement and investigation.
The entire Epstein saga has the same feeling as many of the major events in the US over the past 20-ish years. It defies logic, reason, historical precedent, and its far too neat and tidy to be the whole story. Which leaves us with a closed case, sealed documents, and a very suspicious bulge under the rug.

Posted by: Sorghum | Aug 10 2019 21:50 utc | 230

@ Vasco da Gama | Aug 10 2019 21:27 utc | 223

Yes, that is certainly a good way. My grandpa always used a German proverb "Nichts wird so heiss gegessen wie's gekocht wird." 'Nothing is eaten as hot as it is cooked'. (my translation).

There seems to be only one problem. Each passing day, those who are responsible for what happened will have more time to erase their tracks. Like removing all the evidence from the WTC.

I totally agree with your assessment that 'we' (as a population, both in the US and globally) are indeed unbelievably screwed. Gullibility prevents people from realizing that everything we type, or say is monitored/recorded. Everywhere. Using certain terms will immediately activate Fascist stooges that will do everything to ridicule people that speak the truth - on no matter what. The population was informed about that by Edward Snowden many years ago. For people that are responsible for the death of millions of innocent people in other countries, character assassination of truth tellers are peanuts. Where is Julian Assange? The Skripals?

The population will be told another big lie - this time about Epstein - and since the people are so used to those, will just go on with their 'lives'.

May I alter your statement into:

Humanity is now FUBAR.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 10 2019 21:51 utc | 231

Conveniently, Google is having "technical difficulties" over the last 24 hours indexing major sites, most of them "news" sites. Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences with "Alphabet" agencies (not-so-subtle jibe intended).

Selectively "protecting" portions of the population from info about this operation?

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 10 2019 21:54 utc | 232

The business of Epstein allegedly being put on, then taken off, "suicide watch" is a rabbit-hole circumstance in and of itself.

One person's "reasonable assumption" is another's "uninformed wild guess", but I'm making one anyway: I assume that one important criterion for withdrawing a suicide watch is that qualified professionals are persuaded that for whatever reason, the individual is no longer acutely disposed to attempt it. (Why are people laughing?)

Put the other way around, if an apparently suicidal person is detected and rescued either before or after an unsuccessful attempt, and is physically fit to return to their cell, the suicide watch would persist if the person gave any indication that they intended to persist in the attempts.

And even if suicide watch and ultra-close monitoring is discontinued, I doubt that prison administrators return belts, shoelaces, clothing, skull-cracking toilet seats, or cyanide capsules to the prisoner.

Moreover, Epstein was obviously a high-profile celebrity prisoner. All this to say that it can't come down to the simplistic explanation that Epstein was wrongly or prematurely taken off suicide watch, so whoops! His keepers obviously miscalculated and Epstein got a chance for a do-over.

I didn't follow Whitey Bulger's case, but I do remember that his death was oddly underplayed for several days-- early news reports blithely discussed the state of his health, and strongly implied that he'd simply died from natural causes. Then, about a week later, this was "corrected" with equally understated, vague reports that hey, he'd been done in by a fellow inmate.

This is a tangent, I know, but I see a peculiar similarity in the way both "celebrity" evildoers abruptly died in custody, and the initial official statements and media coverage seemed to try to pass it off as a routine, relatively unremarkable prison mishap-- so routine that neither the officials nor the media saw any reason to get into the details.

So, no, it doesn't make perfect sense that Epstein obviously decided to "cheat the hangman", so to speak. Even if it was technically suicide, which hasn't been established, it was either a "directed" suicide or it was encouraged and ultimately accomplished by administrative chicanery.

Posted by: Ort | Aug 10 2019 22:04 utc | 233

@b real

thank you fellow moonbat!

Posted by: lizard | Aug 10 2019 22:29 utc | 234

It seems one of our 'concerned' commenters has blown a gasket.

Not sure what to make of this comment on another forum...

Where can I go to file a complaint against a warden?

FWIW, it's not just call centers that are employing prisoners. The troll farm business seems to be active in this 'labor pool' also.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 22:30 utc | 235

Techno_Fog has two threads second, dealing with this event that provide a somewhat differing perspective.

MIke Cernovich's thread on the event omits the Florida investigation.

These two both hoped Epstein would destroy the Clintons. Funny how Comey's daughter's in charge of the prosecution. No wonder there wasn't any objection to the continued sealing of Epstein's financial records. Why the hell is she in Trump's DoJ?!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 22:32 utc | 236

Ort #232: well said and thanks.

Posted by: Cortes | Aug 10 2019 22:42 utc | 237

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2019 21:02 utc | 214
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 10 2019 21:25 utc | 221

I think you might be right. Epstein's death is too convenient. If he was truly a liability why not take him out long before he ever set foot back in the US? Why no simultaneous prosecution of G. Maxwell? A day prior Trump is "cleared" by Giuffre.
Although she is not the the Jane Doe who accuses Epstein and Trump of raping her at 13. Epstein will likely get plastic surgery and will be harassing more young girls in a few days.

Posted by: O | Aug 10 2019 22:45 utc | 238

This observation by Max Blumenthal is spot-on:

"Widespread skepticism of the official Epstein suicide story is a healthy, democratic impulse. It’s tragic that citizens are so ruthlessly discouraged from & punished for expressing the same skepticism over suspicious incidents that trigger interventions & escalate a new Cold War."

Wish I'd written that in my first comment to this thread.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 22:46 utc | 239

Surprised ? no, it was just a matter of time.

Glad to hear that AOC is asking questions. We might do better service to each other if we just hear each comment out. Thank you b for a good report.

Believe me a suicide prevention cell is exatly that or at least in most prosperous nations.

Regardless of his death there must be mountains of evidence to reveal if all those accusers seek damages from his estate. If there are accusations against 16 democrat legislators then there will be interesting times ahead perhaps.

Now for Ghislaine Maxwell, she certainly is a person of interest as would be every pilot, ships skipper and staff at his abominable island. The estate dispersal will reveal many administrative flaws I suspect. Amazing Polly will have a field day.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2019 22:48 utc | 240

Zack at 145
...on the way to the hospital...
Note that J Ruby fired 1 shot aimed at L H Oswald's stomach. A bit odd?
That is the area easiest to hit in a 1-shot scenario and while rarely fatal, guarantees the receiver a ride away from a chaotic scene into a completely controlled scene...the ambulance.
Oswald was DOA=dead-on-arrival at hospital.

It works!

Posted by: chu teh | Aug 10 2019 22:51 utc | 241

And the best follow-up to Blumenthal is this Michael Tracey tweet:

"The popular media definition of 'conspiracy theories' is incoherent. They've spent three years pushing a debunked Trump/Russia conspiracy, but now will try to denigrate anyone who suggests a sinister explanation for the suspicious, sudden death of Epstein as a crazy conspiracist."

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 22:51 utc | 242

Karlof @238 and 241
Excellent quotes!

Posted by: Sorghum | Aug 10 2019 22:58 utc | 243

Epstein was inconvenient for Trumps reelection and those who are backing him like Dershowitz. The Dems were going to play it for all it was worth after letting it go in 2016. He had to go. Apparently a pardon would not protect Epsteins assets so he couldn't be convinced to plead guilty as they expected. Otherwise his plane would have had an accident on its return to the US.

People have short memories. Most people wont remember anything about Epstein a year from now. Problem solved.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 10 2019 23:03 utc | 244

I think bringing Epstein in, then disappearing him, is simply a message to everyone compromised by the op to remember who they get their orders from, in case anyone is getting squirrelly about what is being demanded.

I think a lot of the commentary on this particular topic with the commentariat here is missing a deeper vein of derangement that could be motivating the players to make end-time moves.

Posted by: lizard | Aug 10 2019 23:05 utc | 245

Another possibility is this is all staged. Epstein gets to go free under a new identity and get a new island to play with his toys. A fake suicide. How would we know it was not.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 10 2019 23:07 utc | 246

Thank you karlof1 #129, good news from a other star.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 10 2019 23:10 utc | 247

There are ways of killing yourself that probably can't be identified when on suicide watch. For example, terminal dehydration or not consuming any water. It takes about three days, but it really does work if a person is determined enough.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Aug 10 2019 23:20 utc | 248

Chris Hansen files this vid report. Fourth thread entry by RupertWins is very curious and suggestive, particularly the lack of replies to it. Both are worth checking out by the curious and questioning.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 23:22 utc | 249

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 23:22 utc | 248
This is why I wondering earlier was their any staff at the hospital where Epstein was declared dead being interviewed?

Posted by: O | Aug 10 2019 23:36 utc | 250

Hopefully jeebus will glide down from heaven with big plates of lox and bagels for the Epstein whodonit mystery miniseries actors, actresses and representatives from the other 38 genders

Posted by: jerichocheyenne | Aug 10 2019 23:42 utc | 251

Boring plot twist:

Epstein appears alive in court giving testimony on number of sex trafficking cases weeks later after witness protection program whisks him away once again under a new identity.

Sorry, i did not warn about how boring.

Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Aug 10 2019 23:49 utc | 252

If we take a day or two to digest this, we'll all be on to the next big news event. First reaction is often the most accurate and my first reaction was total "bs". How do we know he's dead? A photo in the NY Daily News? That's it? This man's ego was much too large to do himself off. He copped an early release, perhaps to Paraguay, or Uruguay. Someplace warm, where it would not be easy for him to be recognized. He'll have to chill there for the rest of his life because otherwise he doesn't have one.

Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Aug 10 2019 23:55 utc | 253

Wow. Just like Enron's Kenneth Lay's heart attack at the most advantageous moment...

Posted by: Summer Diaz | Aug 10 2019 23:59 utc | 254

flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 22:30 utc | 234

FWIW, it's not just call centers that are employing prisoners. The troll farm business seems to be active in this 'labor pool' also.

Nobody would know better than you.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 11 2019 0:02 utc | 255

So Epstein died. How convenient. The people that run the pedophile blackmail show get to fight another day. It' not about Epstein, it's about what he was doing, who he was doing it for and who he had dirt on. Of course he died. Imagine if he started to talk, man there would be no one left to run planet earth after all the prosecutions. We'd be down to Imran Khan and Assad probably. Note they are enemies of the establishment, probably because they can't be bought. Love you guys

Posted by: Jezabeel | Aug 11 2019 0:05 utc | 256

@ thecelticwithinme | Aug 10 2019 23:55 utc | 252

perhaps to Paraguay, or Uruguay. Someplace warm

Ha, ha, ha! Uruguay is definitely not warm. Not right now. We had -2ºC a few days ago (night). Days are between 10º-20º. I hope he doesn't show up here. What would I do if I see him? No, the safest place for him would be Brasil - that's where you get the farthest with a lot of money to bribe people. Also, the Uruguayan people are not fond of people like him. Although there is a Trump tower in Punta del Este, but word has it that it went broke before completion. It is still under construction with no workers to be seen.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 11 2019 0:14 utc | 257

Jezabeel @255: So Epstein died. How convenient... It' not about Epstein ...

How convenient that you emphasis his supposed death while ignoring Ghislane and the incoherence of the supposed "suicide".

It's very much about Epstein if there's the possibility that he could reach a plea bargain that implicates powerful people.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 0:23 utc | 258

The sigh of relief from the DJT and Clinton crowd must have been deafening...

Posted by: ben | Aug 11 2019 0:25 utc | 259

It is no surprise that the empire pays flunkies to take up residence in fora like this one attached to MoA to make sure their narratives are reinforced here, but for them to flood it like this? With, for instance, just a single one of their flunkies being responsible for almost 15% of the posts in a long thread like this?

The narratives surrounding this issue are ones that the imperial establishment clearly have placed a very large emphasis on managing. It is looking like the wildest speculation concerning Epstein might be understating how deep and dark this particular rabbihole is.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 0:28 utc | 260

Posted by: Veritas X- | Aug 10 2019 14:47 utc | 25
This *outcome* was to be expected.
Is he dead?
I don't think so.

Killing him is dumb as he is intelligent enough to have protected his life by having a few "insurance" policies somewhere that will be released on his actual death. I am sure that killing him has likely been considered (likely, not definitely) by some pissed off billionaire who has been persuaded that it is not a good idea and that releasing his is a better idea. You don't survive so many years swimming with sharks without some serious layers of protection. All set up very nicely, including the dry run two weeks ago with the apparent suicide attempt.

Posted by: aspnaz | Aug 11 2019 0:32 utc | 261

Speaking of managing reaction, there are now five links to Epstein articles on the front page of the Washington Post Website. None of the articles permits comments.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 11 2019 0:34 utc | 262

Sorry to interrupt but I wish people who accuse and/or insinuate that others are trolling would name names. It's hard enough keeping up with the Epstein stuff without trying to figure out which commenters are reliable and which aren't.

Posted by: dh | Aug 11 2019 0:36 utc | 263

dh @263

They get bonuses when their screen names are referenced by others in the thread.

Anyway, it should be obvious. Just look for posters giving official narratives the hard sell.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 0:50 utc | 264

@228, Frances

Yes, thanks. I thought something was weird but assumed the picture was real. But of course there is no body on the gurney, just some folded-up orange cloth. Even if one could see something that looks like feet under the various textiles, which one cannot, but even if one could discern them, Epstein would have to be a dwarf to fit onto the gurney.

So, yes, it is a fake photo.

NOw, readers who try to parse this obvious fact will be labeled conspiracy theorists. The MSM is alreayd trumpeting that Epstein's suicide has the CTs out in droves. It strikes me that the conspiracy theorist meme is being deployed in the USA simimlarly to the way dissidents in the bad ol' USSR were labeled schizophrenics and sent for "rewiring" in psychiatric hospitals (there were specific hospitals that specialized in this use of "psychitry" in the USSR; needless to say there were also genuine psychiatric patients who may have been receiving adequate treatment). But to return to my point, those labeled as CTs are also often called nuts. implying that they are insane.

As soon as the MSM tries to get ahead of the dissidents who are questioning the official narrative by labeling the dissidents conspiracy theorists, one can be sure that the dissidents are actually on the right scent. The conspiracy theorist label is a big stinking fish thrown in the road to try to confuse the pack.

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 0:53 utc | 265

"The business of Epstein allegedly being put on, then taken off, "suicide watch" is a rabbit-hole circumstance in and of itself."

Yes yes yes!

Actually, the whoel suicide watch story was clearly a preparation for this incident. I am pretty sure that a number of people commented in exactly this vein at that time: "Suicide watch" means that Epstein will be suicided, or made to appear to commit suicide. It was an obvious prelude that stated the motiv and prepared the public for poor Epstein's demise by his own hand.

What rot! As someone else else noted, how stupid do they think we are?

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 0:59 utc | 266

@264 There's an official narrative? I'm not sure I've heard it yet. Unless you mean 'Epstein committed suicide while under suicide watch.' End of story. Move along folks.

Posted by: dh | Aug 11 2019 0:59 utc | 267

Oh, and FBI opens an investigation. Like the one they opened on his life of crime. Oh, wait...

Posted by: Stumpy | Aug 11 2019 1:05 utc | 268

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 10 2019 17:35 utc | 129

Sad to say, I found your post to be more relevant than the original article and 90% pf the comments in this thread. Sorry, b.

Posted by: Stumpy | Aug 11 2019 1:11 utc | 269

Yes, thanks for the reminder.
Wasn't t hat preety soon after 9/11 that the Enron case broke?

Just when we thought we were finally going to get some truth out of Lay, he dies of a heart attack! Highly suspicious to all.

as for "disappearing acts," Robert Maxwell himself is suspected of engineering his death by drowning to avoid some bad financial karma. He probably attended his own funeral in Tel Aviv. I'm sure Ghislaine is well versed in the technology of disappearance and reinvention. She certainly has succeeded in the latter event, popping out of the hat as the head of some kind of environmental nonprofit. I wonder who her board members are. A bunch of Israelis and dual citizens???

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 1:17 utc | 270

Thanks,you make some very good points there.

145# Zack,
so if he was still breathing when put into an ambulance,this could mean he was up forehand led to believe that in "playing" non lethal suicide on himself ,he would be saved by his friends disguised as ambulanciers: who then finished him off.Weinstein would have approved the scenario.The first time it did not work out,the second time it missed the 50th anniversary of the murder of Sharon Tate by just a couple of hours.Married to Roman Polanski,who shares some profiles with Epstein.Tragic all of this.

Posted by: willie | Aug 11 2019 1:18 utc | 271


I think Scarborough's Twit might be reference to the Browder/Magnitsky story. Or, make that "plot." Browder's version of what happened to Magnitsky (supposedly beaten up in a Russian prison by thugs) was pretty well demolished in the film about Browder by the Russian film maker I think it is Nekrasov. THat film has been blocked for viewing in the USA (scratched from the scheduled line-up of a film festival in Manhattan) but I viewed it when it was available somewhere on the Web.

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 1:33 utc | 272

Should "the Epstein saga" serve to make us certain that there are right now people with so much money and power they can make human history be, what they say it will be?
Seeing as how wealth and power go together like two ears on a rabbit - seeing as how extreme wealth is extreme power, it seems to me that for as long as a fraction few wealthpower giants are allowed to have giga-extreme overfortunes, their ability to conceal their true identities and deeds is always going to exceed the rest of humanity's ability to discover and expose said true identities and deeds.
Perhaps then, it is a waste of time to do other than work seriously and daily to convince the human species to deconstruct the billionaires and put a just cap on personal fortunes once and for all time to come - while we still have time?
I mean, should we humans finally toss the diabolically stupid and self-harming idea to allow all this crazy mad bad sad legal thieving, since there is no reason to allow wealthpower giants (like infamous mr. E and those his "suicide" prevents coming to justice to pay for their heinous crimes) upon this pretty planet - and there is every reason NOT to?
Have humans any survival sense left in them, I wonder?
Does one dare make the point that heaping enormous amounts of wealth on people is a cruel thing to do to them as it allows them to succumb to their own worst instincts, makes them targets of ceaseless attacks coming from the poor they robbed and from the other rich (see every history book), and forces them to erode the overfortunes they possess trying to defend the money and power?
Seems to me the 99% underpaid underpowered should immediately apologize to the gigarich, take away the terrible danger of those overfortunes that waste lives, and pledge to never again allow unlimited fortunes and the overpower that comes attached to them to be heaped on anyone.

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Aug 11 2019 1:41 utc | 273

Phryne's frock @273

There are people with much more money than Epstein that lead law abiding lives. Or at least nothing like what Epstein did.

The enabler of his criminality is likely to have more to do with Mega/Mossad than money.

The suicide doesn't prevent arresting Ghislane. So you're wrong when you say it prevents others from being brought to justice.

Your lame attempt at distraction is ridiculous. Clearly you're a hasbara trainee. You can't cloak the truth with that lame frock. But you have helped us to better see the hasbara presence here. LOL.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 2:00 utc | 274

Now everybody has settled down a bit I think it is time to ask a few questions.

Why did Epstein return to the US?
Why did his Mossad handlers not prevent him from returning? Surely they would have been aware of the arrest warrant, if as we are led to believe they have infiltrated every American government institution.

Did Epstein go 'rogue' & withhold certain information from his handlers?
Did he compartmentalize his material? - here's the Democrat version & here's the Republican version. Somebody then felt it was safe to bring him down.

Did 'they' find his dead man switch & felt now was the time to disappear him?

Why make everything so complicated? "Epstein lost in Swiss skiing accident", "Epstein falls off cliff while jogging in South of France", "Epstein stabbed to death by 14 year old schoolgirl whilst raping her" - really dead or just relocated - simple & much more satisfying than suicide.

Who instigated the charges against Epstein? Surely if the material he possessed was so damaging to these powerful people it could have been nipped in the bud at a very low level with no fuss & little publicity. Easy to get to witnesses & lawyers if you have the right sort of power.
Who is behind the public face of the prosecutors & other DOJ officials?

Once the blackmail material sees the light of day it's usefulness is just about over. There is massive motivation on all sides to keep this information well and truly under wraps. So why not keep him somewhere safe?

Notwithstanding the above questions....
Was there a oh! shit we fucked up moment & we better get him out?

- put him in a cell with dirty scumbag police officer who can be 'trusted'.
- stage a fake suicide attempt.
- suicide watch & the scene is now set.
- remove suicide watch & carry out the second fake suicide attempt.
- straight out the door in an 'ambulance' & no questions asked.

If anybody can answer some of the above questions we will probably be a little closer to the truth.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 11 2019 2:12 utc | 275

How the hell can such a high profile prisoner have a cell mate?

Posted by: Lozion | Aug 11 2019 2:18 utc | 276

We knew Trump wouldn't be able to stay out of this for long. He's even retweeting 'conspiracy' theories accusing Clinton of murder.

Posted by: dh | Aug 11 2019 2:19 utc | 277

ted01 @275:

Why make everything so complicated? "Epstein lost ..., "Epstein falls ..., "Epstein stabbed ...

They had to make it look like they were doing something after the Miami Herald articles. By simply bringing Epstein to justice DOJ/FBI hoped to absolve themselves and cover the asses of certain important people.
Trump: a single victim said he didn't touch her;

Clinton: AFAIK, not mentioned in released documents;

Dershowitz: got an email released - from a single victim - saying that there were suspicions about him but no proof (apparently this lame, non-exculpatory evidence is what he fought to have released).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 2:27 utc | 278

This may be so obvious as to be unnecessary to add but the one thing I know for sure is that it is very difficult to hang yourself in jail under the best of circumstances. No belt, nothing above you to tie a shredded piece of clothing to, if you had some way to shred it – which you don't. Add to this the soft, pampered nature of this particular beast, his high-profile and the fact that he had just allegedly tried it and failed (I doubt he could kill a chicken) and for Love of Sweet Jesus he was on suicide watch. Only question is what really happened and what kind of inquiry follows. Shades of Jack Ruby darken the doorway.

Posted by: defaultcitizen | Aug 11 2019 2:35 utc | 279

Just like Rudolf Heß "committed suicide" when it was clear that the Cold War was almost over, he might soon be released, and he was still the repository of information about why, exactly, he flew to England in 1941 and which Royal family members he was supposed to negotiate with?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | Aug 11 2019 2:42 utc | 280

Jackrabbit 274, Please. You have me 180 degrees wrong. My friends in Occupied Palestine know that I do not even believe that Israel is a country - it is a colonialist zionist eugenicist project providing terror porn to gigarich usamericans and other wealthpower giants.
That cleared up, I find it quite odd that anyone rushes in to cast aspersions on the idea to disallow stolen wealth to remain in the bank accounts of those who did not get the wealth via their own work. I guess you are unaware that there are myriad legal thefts in our economic dystems. How far does the legal thieving have to go before people get it that extreme injustice is no way to organize human societies, no way to run a planet?

Posted by: Phryne's frock | Aug 11 2019 2:50 utc | 281

the frockster @281

LMFAO. Go away trainee.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 2:54 utc | 282

@ the Rabbit. Well go bag the man in Tel Aviv and bring him back here to face trial then, if he's not dead.

Posted by: Jezabeel | Aug 11 2019 3:01 utc | 283

Epstein was more probably than not to have been murdered than to have committed suicide.

There are three signs that corroborate to this:

1) Historian's best friend -- the cui bono question -- points that the timing of the death, and the official cause of the death, all favor those very powerful people who would've been caught if the case was cracked open (i.e. if Epstein opened his mouth), and those very powerful people definitely have the machine of the State, i.e. the means, to execute such kind of murder;

2) Death by "suicide" by hanging in the cell is not a novelty of the Epstein case: during the military dictatorship era (1964-1985), the Brazilian military dictatorship murdered a journalist who was a political prisoner -- Vladimir Herzog -- exactly the same way. However, they comitted the mistake of taking a picture of the scene (with the body, the noose made up with a cloth and everything -- you can see it on the internet) and letting it circulate through a newspaper: the distance between the bars in the window of Herzog's cell and the floor didn't make up his height. Nowadays, it is consensus between historians of the period that Herzog was murdered. His family still claims for justice in the form of a formal admission by the Federal Government that it killed him.

3) The NYT immediately published the news in its home page, unequivocally and without possibility of double interpretion, that Epstein comitted suicide (only in the article itself it is revealed this is just the official version and that the investigators still weren't sure). If you just read the headlines, you would get the clear impression Epstein for sure comitted suicide. The problem with this is that this is not the NYT M.O. with these kind of deaths: like its British sister -- The Guardian -- it likes to speculate and flirt with some light conspiracy theories in order to attract more clicks. This is specially the case when an enemy of the State is involved, like Russia or China (or, in the case of The Guardian, the Labour Party). But, in Epstein's case, it feels as if the NYT wants to close this case as soon as possible, to eliminate the echo. Add to this the fact that the NYT is a newspaper that is known for always consulting with the USG before publishing any article, which sends the subliminar message that this is also the will of the American government.

Posted by: vk | Aug 11 2019 3:06 utc | 284

Jackrabbit @273

I see the DOJ/FBI as separate to the 'important people'. Surely it is easier for the guilty & their Mossad blackmailers to 'disappear' Epstein whilst he is in the Middle East or Europe.
All the Doj/FBI has to say is 'sorry we tried but he is gone'. Also I am not sure that they care about absolving themselves, have they ever in the past?

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 11 2019 3:15 utc | 285

Forget about the NYT, they are establishment scum.

Do watch Amazing Polly for a deep peek:

Sure it is speculative but then we have a brain that enriches itself from speculation. You don't have to believe Polly but she has the broad brush and incisive mind. That's because of all that snow and maple syrup in Canada.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Aug 11 2019 3:17 utc | 286

Best twitter quote of the day:

"I'm not saying ancient aliens murdered Epstein, I'm just saying ancient aliens could have prevented it and chose not to."

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 11 2019 3:40 utc | 287

Maybe he returned to be arrested because his life was in danger on the outside. Deemed it safer to be in visible custody... he did try for bail though. Doesn't add up and the net is so full of gossip and speculation and the grinding of various axes, and few dacts.

Mintpress news had the most interesting piece I read on the affair. Linked by someone above, thanks.

Posted by: the pessimist | Aug 11 2019 4:10 utc | 288

How verified was the first observation of bruises on Epstein's neck?
Maybe those were simply to prepere for a later murder, to make it more believable to be a suicide!
And so on...

All things of this saga are questionable for now.

Posted by: k2 | Aug 11 2019 4:34 utc | 289


I respect you detailed comments and maturity to not take the bait when insulted.

I look forward to more of your detailed comments on military matters as you did with the difficulty to reverse engineer the S400 that you corrected me on. Most of us are here to learn, so ignore the useless noisemakers.

Posted by: Krollchem | Aug 11 2019 4:48 utc | 290

Dare I suggest that there is either a Pulitzer Prize or a "botched mugging" awaiting any investigative journalist who wants to dig a bit deeper into the murkier movements at this place of incarceration.

You know, things like:
a) were any inmates moved into nearby cells at short notice?
b) were guard shifts rescheduled without any explanation?
c) did any prisoners receive visitors who had never visited before or since?
d) do any of those visitors appear to have, ahem, somewhat murky backstories?

You know, things like that.

Questions that a proper journalist would think to ask, even if a stenographer never would.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 11 2019 4:52 utc | 291

He very probably isn't dead, Mossad doesn't let down its loyal servants. What is certain is that he is no more in Jail. In any case, one can guess that the Mossad has all the files and videos.
There will be blood.

Posted by: Bob | Aug 11 2019 4:56 utc | 292

@273 & 281 Phryne's frock

I'm with you. You write densely but with a bit of slower reading, you present a superb thesis. I like its magic. I admire its vision. I agree with everything you say.


As to the attack on you, I don't know. One of my pet aversions is when people use the term "LOL" while disparaging commenters. I've seen it countless times, and almost always in dubious comments.


So take heart, and please return and say more things, or even the same things over again - because while I like your prescription for the cure, I still strive to determine how it can be achieved.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 11 2019 6:00 utc | 293

Its possible Epstein is still in the jail.. somebody else was taken to the hospital.. all eyes left please..
also i read during a house search Epstein had a Australian Passport..

the US government is the legitimate government of the people. Once that narrative is disbelieved ... the USA is doomed : Kadath @ 106 <= but America will not be doomed and Americans will not be the victim.. Allow me to explain: the few USA governed Americans eligible to vote are each allowed to vote on but three candidates out of 525 elected jobs. 3/(525 house and senate + P and VP-527 elected, salaried members of the USA) means each USA governed vote eligible American is allowed to vote for just 0.57% of those who will be elected and paid a salary to rule. The popular vote does not elect (<=that is Americans cannot vote for=>) either the President or the VP.. <=the electoral college decides=> who is appointed to Pres and vP.. Its difficult to reconcile the type of people who run the USA with the real people that live in the USA governed America..

Posted by: snake | Aug 11 2019 6:22 utc | 294

Imagine all the dirt that Mossad has on Trump courtesy of Maxwell’s underage honey trap ops.
I always figured if Trump was working for/compromised by a foreign power then it was probably Israel.

Posted by: Jimmy | Aug 11 2019 6:24 utc | 295

Posted by: dh | Aug 11 2019 2:19 utc | 277

:-)) I just had a look at Trump's twitter feed, he sounds completely unhinged. He seems to forget that he is the president and responsible for what is going on.

Point is this is bi-partisan, you cannot frame Epstein as Clinton's friend or Trump's friend, he was both. And Trump is on record having noticed that Epstein is into women "on the young side". Never mind Trump's model business which certainly involved introducing guys with money to models.

It is quite likely Epstein did commit suicide and was not stopped. The guy was a sexual addict, prison must have destroyed him.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 6:26 utc | 296

Here's a useful summary of the story so far:

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 6:31 utc | 297

Some sanity from a detective who has followed Jeffrey Epstein.

Of course someone like Epstein would choose suicide.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 6:40 utc | 298

See also:

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 6:56 utc | 299

Biswapriya @124,

Only twice.

karlof @248,

4chan's /pol/ is a troll board and is also packed tighter with communications specialists than MoA is this evening. "Shaking" is a longtime /pol/ in-joke, usually prefixed with "literally" in case you're interested in the history. In response, I invoke a different imageboard in-joke, one whose meaning should be readily apparent: Press (x) to doubt.

Posted by: Jonathan^-1 | Aug 11 2019 7:01 utc | 300

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