Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 10, 2019

Epstein Suicided

Unsurprisingly Jeffrey Epstein was found dead, presumably by suicide, as that is what 'officials' claim:

Jailed multimillionaire financier and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein has died by suicide, according to two law enforcement sources.

He was taken from New York's Metropolitan Correctional Center on Saturday morning in cardiac arrest and died at an area hospital, the sources told CNN.
...
Just weeks ago, Epstein was placed on a suicide watch after he was found July 23 in his Manhattan jail cell with marks on his neck, a law enforcement source and a source familiar with the incident told CNN at the time.

Just yesterday a court released the first 2,000 pages of a civil case against Epstein's madame, Ghislaine Maxwell:

The documents, the largest cache to be released in the 13 years since Epstein’s case began, offer brutal details about Epstein’s trafficking of teenage girls in Palm Beach, New York and overseas — as well as Maxwell’s obsessive and often abusive quest to provide him with new girls over a span of years in the early to mid 2000s.
...
[Epstein victim Virginia Roberts Giuffre], who turned 36 on Friday, names a number of other men in politics, academia and business that she says she was directed to have sex with. In a 2017 interview with the Miami Herald, Giuffre said that Epstein wanted her to please various influential people then so that he could learn about their sexual peccadilloes and use them as leverage if he needed to.

While there’s no direct evidence contained in the court record substantiating her accounts with prominent men, Giuffre did provide testimony and evidence to corroborate her claims of exploitation at the hands of Epstein and Maxwell through photographs, plane logs and even a medical record from Presbyterian Hospital in New York where Giuffre was taken by Epstein after a particularly abusive sex episode.
...
Some of the testimony released Friday is difficult to read, as when one 15-year-old Swedish girl, shaking and crying in fear, told a butler who worked for two of Epstein’s closest friends that she had been taken to Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean and ordered to have sex with him and others. The butler, in a sworn statement, said the girl, visibly traumatized, told him that Epstein and Maxwell had physically threatened to harm her and seized her passport to keep her on the island, according to the butler’s statement.

The released court papers can be found via Courthousenews.

Some of those influential people who Epstein, or the organization behind him, blackmailed, will be quite happy that he is gone. They will now try to bury the rest of the case. Giuffre and other witnesses better watch their backs.

Posted by b on August 10, 2019 at 13:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Biswapriya @124,

Only twice.

karlof @248,

4chan's /pol/ is a troll board and is also packed tighter with communications specialists than MoA is this evening. "Shaking" is a longtime /pol/ in-joke, usually prefixed with "literally" in case you're interested in the history. In response, I invoke a different imageboard in-joke, one whose meaning should be readily apparent: Press (x) to doubt.

Posted by: Jonathan^-1 | Aug 11 2019 7:01 utc | 301

michael tracey over on twitter had a good point which I have thought about, especially after seeing a report about joe scarborough's remark that this was about "A guy who had information that would have destroyed rich and powerful men’s lives ends up dead in his jail cell. How predictably"

It's always about Russia, folks!

here's what Tracey had to say:
"If the Epstein thing occurred in Russia -- “oligarch” with connections to the ruling political elite found dead under suspicious circumstances -- it would automatically get cast by US media as evidence of how fundamentally corrupt Russian society is"

I ask you, how corrupt IS american society? or perhaps more specifically how corrupt are the top .0001% or 40-50 families and individuals who are worth $200 billion+ more this year than last year


Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 11 2019 7:15 utc | 302

ref all the BS above: read the documents and at least the vanityfair and miami herald articles.
Florida inquiry: more than 30 girls interviews confirming the accusations;
other witnesses confirming the girls' stories and the chronology: butler, pilot etc
closest circle: 5th amendment (i still wait for someone to explain me how it functions)
The two real winners in Epstein's death are Les Wexner and Darshowitz, although in D's case, the trial will continue.
No doubt though they can make deals with the state about the documents possibly now in possession of the FBI after they seized lots of pics and other docs from Epstein mansion in NY.

Anyway, his death won't stop the ongoing cases against Maxwell and Darshowitz, as well as the case on the manner the Florida deal was made under higher authorities pressures. The Florida sheriff also said he tried to interview Maxwell at the time and never got a possibility.
https://twitter.com/SDNYnews/status/1160272781298327553

Will the UK try to bargain something ref Andrew for Maxwell's head?

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 7:17 utc | 303

sorry, got cut off, scarborough said "How predictably...Russian."

Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 11 2019 7:17 utc | 304

as to the mother of all BS questions "why did he return to the US" he never left!! he was just abroad as he would most of the year! the guy had enough on Harvard, a number of Democrat senators, MbS, not to mention Trump and Clinton to think that he was untouchable.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 7:24 utc | 305

a no nonsense source
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports

the shorter reports published friday include pictures, they are redacted, many pages missing, but this shows that what has not been made public is even worse that what we can read

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 7:34 utc | 306

@268 dh, re "official narrative"

If there are "conspiracy theorists," then ipso facto there is an "official narrative." (Maybe more than one!). Otherwise, what would be the point of already sending the CT attack dogs into action to label anyone who fields a "subversive" narrative a CT?
The presence of the CT accusation is a warning shot not to question the official narrative---whatever it turns out to be!!

Of course the Epstein narrative may be Skripaled. Is certainly being "skripaled" as we speak and comment. (A nice take on "scripted.")

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 9:57 utc | 308

There certainly are an unusually large amount of comments relating to this issue on all platforms. Does this somehow relate to the new push to demonize "Conspiracy theory"? What an opportunity this particular event presents in identifying and cataloging large numbers of commentators in real time.

Posted by: BOA | Aug 11 2019 9:58 utc | 309

michaelj72 @305,

The first one to call Muh Russia is always the pedo.

Posted by: Jonathan | Aug 11 2019 10:03 utc | 310

Epstein was Mossad
https://www.mintpressnews.com/mega-group-maxwells-mossad-spy-story-jeffrey-epstein-scandal/261172/

Posted by: col from Oz | Aug 11 2019 10:15 utc | 311

Looking across all media and talking with some friends, it seems that a Rubicon has been passed with this convenient death this time. Joe and Jane Public are waking up to the fact that the only alternative to being a conspiracy theorist is to be a gullible simpleton.

Whether this is a true shift, or a temporary or permanent shift in the zeitgeist, time will tell. Can JE’s oh so convenient death be washed down the Orwellian Memory Hole before the next insult to public intelligence from TPTB?

Posted by: PJB | Aug 11 2019 10:23 utc | 312

240, Re Amazing Polly,
I have been very impressed with Amazing Polly's research and straightforward delivery.

I highly recommend this video:
The Crimes That Must Not Be Buried with Jeffrey Epstein,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuU3dy3OeJ8

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 10:46 utc | 313

Yeah Right @ 292

I was thinking along very much the same lines this morning, though I have little faith that such questions will be asked outside of sites such as MoA. I currently reside in the UK and yesterday evening I swallowed my vomit and actually plugged into the squawk-box to check out some of the MSM reporting and late night news analysis on this issue. My impression was that the UK media seemed to put a bit of focus on the links between Epstein and Trump whilst barely touching on or omitting completely any mention of Epstein and the Clintons, or his dealings with Prince Andrew. I believe that some of the Sunday papers have linked Prince Andrew with Epstein, though I have not read the articles to verify this.

The entire affair leaves one feel sullied just reading about it. I would wish for nothing else than for the victims of this trafficking and abuse to receive some form of justice.

The TV has been unplugged once again.

Posted by: Glossopteris | Aug 11 2019 10:46 utc | 314

It's very strange that donkeytale has made such a significant showing right here. Some of you remember who I am. donkeytale knows exactly who I am and what I can do. He's 95% likely to be male. Has at least the equivalent of a PhD in something like classics or English. Is totally 100% batshit crazy. I watched him totally destroy another blog. He nonetheless insists on keeping his rather real identity in the form of his persistent screen name. Unlike myself, he is not very strong in electronics, physics, and the 'hard' sciences. You simply cannot argue with craziness, and you are crazy if you try.

On to the meat of the matter. I am a big-time social activist, and as such have spent more than one night in jail. The real truth is that it is virtually impossible to kill yourself behind bars. You could perhaps get 'shanked' but only the prison 'authorities' allowed it to happen. Prison 'authorities' are generally as corrupt as they come, and for enough whatever, yeah, they will let you get 'shanked' (basically split open like a fish on a spear). Otherwise, unless you have some sort of major organ malfunction, you simply cannot die in prison. It is very surprisingly easy to kill yourself accidentally, perhaps by taking too many pills. But your brain is totally hard-wired to stop you cold from doing yourself in. You have to be totally batshit crazy to kill yourself. Ordinarilly your brain's Prime Directive will stop you cold. And this is perfectly normal.

Even if you are batshit crazy, you will simply have 'nothing to work with' in jail to do yourself in. You will only have the means to kill yourself or be killed if the people who run the 'joint' allow it. It seems, in many cases, that it is easier to obtain illegal drugs in jail than out on the street. Prison guards are, on average, so corrupt that they are almost never allowed to become ordinary police officers. And that is a very low bar indeed! But the normal prison cell contains absolutely nothing that would enable you to kill yourself. And if you anywhere near normal, your brain will stop you cold. As a kid, I had the 'hobby' of trying to 'hold my breath'. I could never do it for more than five minutes. Your brain will stop you. Try it.

So did this billionaire fellow manage to off himself with what would normally be found in any jail cell? The answer is absolutely 'NO'! Don't let anybody bullshit you about this fact. Somebody 'arranged' for him to die. This should be very obvious to anybody with a half-way normal mind who has been in the insanely 'sanitary' environment of a jail. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about this fact of life behind bars.

Posted by: blues | Aug 11 2019 11:01 utc | 315

blues says:

It's very strange that donkeytale has made such a significant showing right here

well, i don't think strange is the right word, but yeah, since his initial comment @ 4...

I have no dog in the Epstein hunt just a preference for b to avoid becoming a hack

...he went on to post another 19 dreck-filled comments(so far), thus proving my months ago introductory assessment of him, i.e. as a mealy-mouthed cocksucker.

Posted by: john | Aug 11 2019 11:50 utc | 316

Sorry... a bit late to the party... I prefer to let others, more skilled than myself, have a go at stuff like this before I get caught up in the debate vortex

Jim Stone has an interesting piece debunking Epstein's "death"

Spoiler Alert: It was faked

Posted by: xLemming | Aug 11 2019 12:22 utc | 317

xLemming @317


Jim Stone has an interesting piece debunking Epstein's "death"

Spoiler Alert: It was faked

I would really like to see some solid evidence that he didn't die, but unfortunately that piece does not prove anything. At best it raises some questions.

We are left guessing, and my guess is that he is dead and it didn't happen on his own terms.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 11 2019 12:30 utc | 318

"a mealy-mouthed cocksucker."? Come on, guys! He's just doing his job! What else can a lunatic with "the equivalent of a PhD in something like classics or English" do to put food on the table? Teach English 101 at the local community college?

He probably does that too but adjunct faculty get paid by the course and that doesn't cover the rent, so he signs up with a social media marketing agency subcontracted by the National Democratic Institute to help sell official narratives. This is one of the few growth industries for people with useless degrees in modern deindustrialized America, so while it is a failure of character on his part to take a job like that, it is not unexpected... exactly like becoming a prostitute, actually. The poor guy is as much a victim as one of Epstein's girls!

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 12:38 utc | 319

@flankerbandit | Aug 10 2019 22:30 utc | 235

It seems one of our 'concerned' commenters has blown a gasket.

Not sure what to make of this comment on another forum...

Where can I go to file a complaint against a warden?

FWIW, it's not just call centers that are employing prisoners. The troll farm business seems to be active in this 'labor pool' also.

Well, I looked up that comment on another forum.
Turns out that the username there is Nottheonly1! and not nottheonly1. Which clearly proves that you are not only suffering from lack of reading skills, but more so are the real troll. Your ad hominem attacks - that find support on this board by other commenters - are a hallmark for a troll. And your insult in regards to calling me a 'concern troll' shows a deep sitting cognitive dissonance, because you are concerning yourself with someone who is concerned about the destruction of this commenting forum by paid shills that are only commenting to make any meaningful exchange impossible. You also lack the mental capacity to understand what Krishnamurti was taking about, when speaking about thinking together. You are of course not interested in that, or any dialogue that would lead to possible solutions for a society that has come totally unhinged. Someone that is concerned with the direction Western societies take is ridiculed. You are no Sherlock Holmes. And you are incapable to comprehend that is actually does not matter what another person writes - if not off topic - as every contribution has the potential to further the collective consciousness. Even the appearance of a troll like you, will ultimately cause the other commenters to realize what your goal is. It is described here:

Often suffering from a mutant strain of compulsive posting disorder, a troll's basic mission in life is to mischievously manufacture inflammatory opinions in an attempt to stir up disharmony and discord.
Source.

In regards to your insult of my comments constituting 'verbiage', you have obviously no problem with that, if it comes from your fellows. Which makes you hypocritical to the hilt. All these aspects are indicators for dishonesty - something that one can search all of my comments over the last ten years and not find any. My writing and commenting are original. My thoughts, nobody elses.

As I now realize, this forum has been taking over by people who either paid, or unpaid are disrupting the attempts of every kind of people to discover solutions to the ever increasing pressure the owner class is exerting on the population.

This concludes my take on the trolls in this forum. The trolls know what they are and as stated elsewhere, the day comes when commenters figure that out.

Now celebrate with your buddies that nottheonly1 will no longer contribute to this forum.

-----

My appreciation goes to Bernhard for his relentless efforts to analyze the daily onslaught of fake news in order to illuminate the actuality of events.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 11 2019 13:02 utc | 320

Once again (repeating and adding to my comment @215):

The strange facts add up to Epstein being murdered ("suicided") or an arranged escape. I believe the latter to be more likely because:

0) No one in government cared about the miscarriage of justice for nearly 10 years. As far as they were concerned, the matter was settled in 2008.

The only reason that changed is the Miami Herald articles. This ultimately led to the resignation of Acosta and AG Barr's opening an investigation. FBI and DOJ were already so embarrassed by the Epstein/Ghislane operation that one would expect that extraordinary steps would be taken to prevent further embarrassment.

1) Epstein could've run ... but he voluntarily flew back to USA.

He's got enough money to run, and he has no family ties (AFAIK).

2) Ghislane has not been detained or charged - despite serious and credible allegations that have been known to the authorities for years (well before yesterday's document release).

All responsibility for the malfeasance is being placed on Epstein. This is typical whitewashing. With his death, TPTB hope that the public is satisfied that "justice is done".

3) Epstein was alive when he left the prison. He would've been transported to the morgue instead of the hospital if he were dead. It would be easy for a well-funded, well-prepared team to switch his body at the hospital and secret him away.

4) Even if he wasn't on "suicide watch", precautions are likely to have been taken given that he is high-profile and was suspected of being suicidal. Now it is said that CCTV at the prison malfunctioned.

Epstein simply had to ingest some chemical/medicine that slowed his heart. That gets him to the hospital.

If TPTB want us to believe this shit show, they have to show us the video surveillance (now said to have malfunctioned) and show the body to the women who were abused (they'll know if it's him). Oh, and arrest Ghislane. Until that happens, I will continue to believe that Epstein is alive.

Lastly, whether alive or dead, the failure of authorities is stark.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 13:30 utc | 322

Another point

Killing Epstein in prison or arranging for his escape from prison is something that few other than an intelligence agency would be able to do. But why kill him? They could've done that anytime in the 10 years before he was jailed.

Anyone that sees Epstein's jailing as a political PR stunt is likely to see Epstein's "suicide" as cover for an arranged escape.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 13:43 utc | 323

Jackrabbit @322

The real failure of the authorities is the failure to get the Epstein narrative under control before the Miami Herald published. There are more CIA assets per square mile in southern Florida than anywhere else in the world (it is one of the principal locations where they are relocated with modified identities when they "retire", and spooks can never really retire), so it is astonishing that this story slipped past the establishment and made it into the public discourse.

The fact that things got so out of control that the fixers for the establishment had to either kill Epstein or spirit him away with a comically elaborate Hollywood jailbreak (likely swapped with the stunt double corpse in the ambulance on the way to the hospital) is an indication of how incompetent and dysfunctional the establishment has become. The empire's fixes for problems like this should never have to be this dramatic nor this public.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 13:53 utc | 324

I find it strange that after searching the NYC home of Jeffrey Epstein and finding fake passports, bags of diamonds, $70K cash, blackmail docs no search warrants were issued for 4 other homes in Palm Beach, Paris, New Mexico,US Virgin Is.

No one asks to search the 4 homes(and how many other bolt holes) no media, no politician, no law enforcement(US AG,FBI,State AGs,US Attys).

Posted by: Jonny Law | Aug 11 2019 14:07 utc | 325

There is a photo in circulation that claims to show a dead Epstein on a hospital gurney.

Online comments claim that the shape of the ear does not match with other photos of Epstein, but that is actually untrue.

If you go here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-new-york-elite.html
and here:
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/3/18116351/jeffrey-epstein-indictment-arrested-trump-clinton-acosta
you will see that the ear shape is identical.

The only problem is that the two photo I link to above are showing the right-side profile of a still-living Epstein, whereas the photo claiming to show Epstein's body on a gurney is showing his left-side profile.

The photo therefore must be doctored, as it uses a mirror-image of Epstein.

Doesn't mean he's not dead, of course.
I'm not implying he was killed, nor that he committed suicide.

But I am certain that the photo that is now doing the rounds is fake, fake, fake.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 11 2019 14:09 utc | 326

This here is a pretty good analysis connecting Epstein with offshore money, Michail Prochorow, Felix Sater and Russian mafia

It sounds like a good guess and about right.

A source who spoke with journalist Vicky Ward said one of Epstein’s clients was the late Saudi arms dealer Khashoggi, a middleman in the Iran-Contra scandal who helped smuggle cash for the Marcos family out of the Philippines. In 1988, Khashoggi was arrested in Switzerland for concealing assets and later faced fraud and racketeering charges in the U.S. (He was later acquitted.) That year, he sold his 282-foot yacht to the Sultan of Brunei, who soon flipped it to Donald Trump. ...

Later, before dissolving, Bayrock was sued by a former finance director, Jody Kriss. As reported by Unger in Vanity Fair:

His complaint alleged that Bayrock was “covertly mob-owned and operated,” “backed by oligarchs and money they stole from the Russian people,” and “engaged in the businesses of financial-institution fraud, tax fraud, partnership fraud, human trafficking, child prostitution, statutory rape, and, on occasion, real estate.” The suit claimed that Bayrock had defrauded Kriss and Ejekam and “never intended to honor” promised payments. Instead, the real purpose of the company, it said, in addition to marketing expensive condos bearing the Trump brand, was “to launder many millions of dollars and evade taxes.”

There is also real evidence Sater has deep ties to intelligence agencies, including U.S. intelligence. In 2014, Sater was named the man of the year of the Port Washington, NY, Chabad. It’s possible the over-the-top speech his rabbi gave, about intelligence professionals lauding Sater for saving untold lives, is generally true. At her 2015 confirmation hearing, Loretta Lynch said Sater provided “information crucial to national security and the conviction of over 20 individuals, including those responsible for committing massive financial fraud and members of La Cosa Nostra.”’

You have to read all of it. It is complex. But the connection to Iran-Contra, moneylaundering, offshore and secret services sounds about right.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 14:10 utc | 327

In case you wonder who Prokhorov is - Stephen Colbert did this PR on him.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 14:13 utc | 328

What gets lost in all the punditry and outrage is that someone was in custody of Epstein. That person (or persons) is culpable for whatever has happened to the person under his custody. That person (or persons) is not an unknown entity.

Posted by: Nathan Mulcahy | Aug 11 2019 14:17 utc | 329

@308 As far as I can see the 'official narrative' is based on something an official from the Federal Bureau of Prisons said i.e. 'Epstein was found unresponsive in his cell in an apparent suicide' which sounds to me more like a carefully worded news release than an official narrative.

There are lots of unanswered questions and plenty of reasons to be skeptical but I don't see why it shouldn't be true pending more evidence.

Posted by: dh | Aug 11 2019 14:20 utc | 330

According to Reuters (of all!) the guards who were supposed to check on Epstein during his last night... did not. For once I agree with the rabbit. Passing him a pill that would have his heart go very down seems the easiest thing to do. Maybe he finally threatened he would spill the beans, knowing that Maxwell had accepted to cooperate? I think Trump had been on the safe side for a long time, from the day he banned him from his Florida club, precisely because he knew the kind of extortion job Epstein was engaged into for his mentors, the Wexner and Darshowitz kind.

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 14:27 utc | 331

@201 Mina "Dear paranoid androids, take a breath. There is 20 years between the two pics and the ear DOES look similar. The nose has changed from aging."

That's not the only thing that has changed. For one, the "younger" photo has been mirrored.

You can see the original (i.e. 2004)photo here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-new-york-elite.html

It is very clearly showing his right-side profile.
The claimed body-on-the-gurney is showing the left-hand profile.

I agree, the ears match. But the only way that can be done is to take the 2004 photo and reverse it.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 11 2019 14:31 utc | 333

old hippie 180, frances 229, Really 266

Two, the only two (afaik) pix of “Epstein being wheeled away."

1

https://conservativefighters.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-2-1.jpg

2

https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/photos-show-jeffrey-epstein-as-hes-wheeled-into-downtown-hospital/

Both pix are from the NY post. They removed photo 1 which was attacked immediately. Note they forgot to change the title see the plural in 2.

frances = roughly similar points as Jim Stone. Stone tends to be hyperbolic and hard to follow.

http://82.221.129.208/.we1.html

Both pix are ‘fakes’ in the sense that ‘a head and part of body’ either Epstein / resembling him / have been inserted into other photos.

A reverse image search - 0 results, these pix are unique. I could not find the originals in 10 wearisome mins. but it could be done, sigh.

Even an unpracticed eye can see the Patient's head (photo 1) is too big - compare with the woman closer to the camera (she may be petite) or the bulky man also closer to cam; the rest of the patient’s body is missing.

FDNY = fire dept new york. The guerneys (sp) in the photo are FD ones, I checked. (minor variations and they come in yellow as well. They are made to transport ppl lying flat and strapped in hard, out of buildings in various conditions, etc.) The sign is FD, check. It may be as stated a ‘drill’ - collaborative as the woman is emergency para medic from the NY police. Photo 2 is the same occasion, but the lady is replaced by another man. Needless to say, a combo of these bodies would not be involved in carting whomever to a hospital/morgue from a prison.

I was under the impression that such ‘prison’ deaths await a coroner who must sign an affidavit / death certif. (don’t know the correct NY term. - there is some discussion above.)

Photo 2 was taken at the New York-Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital. I guess the other as well? They are specialised amongst others in Emergency Medecine.

Anyway, who confected the spoof? And why did the NY post (ok it is a rag) publish them? It’s like Bellingcat rubbish…Anything to support the madcap unbelievable scenarios the PTB dish out.

All this does not mean that Epstein did not die (murder or suicide) but only that there is no solid eveidence he was transported, dead or alive, to some hospital.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 11 2019 14:39 utc | 334

"I read the news today, oh boy", and two things stand out:

1.) Trump appears to relish the Epstein case, and is tweeting about "Hillaricide". He's just not that good an actor, so I think he must like his women with hair and stuff, all grown up. He is a tit man, you can see that.

2.) The media headline writers seem very anxious to inform us that any such ideas as Epstein not being dead or his demise not being a suicide are completely unfounded and irrational, etc. etc.; and almost nobody else finds that convincing.

I think his entire public persona was more of less fake and has now been retired. Whether he got retired too or not remains to be seen.

Posted by: Bemildred | Aug 11 2019 14:45 utc | 335

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 11 2019 13:53 utc | 324

I think the US have the same problem Britain has, that they welcomed offshore money robbed from the world but now find their political system deeply corrupted by foreign mafia.

Epstein and others certainly have been "their" guys taking care of Iran Contra drug money and other corrupt enterprises, but this money did not just flood into US financial systems but was used to buy political influence.

Iran Contra was engineered via Israel but Robert Maxwell was more than just an Israeli agent

Geoffrey Goodman of the Guardian reported in 2003, that “Maxwell built up a tremendous catalogue of politically-influential contacts” and was a two-way conduit of information between Israeli and Soviet intelligence.

So yes, the CIA in Florida must have known and condoned what was going on, but the FBI is a different agency. Epstein and Maxwell made the mistake to recruit local girls and FBI agents reportedly were disgusted at the deal Epstein got.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 14:46 utc | 336

There is also possibility of "witness protection" or something else.

His death can be faked and he released with new name.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 11 2019 15:00 utc | 338

@ Krollchem 291

Thanks Kroll...I agree...course correction initiated.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 11 2019 15:18 utc | 339

Mina @ 305

"as to the mother of all BS questions "why did he return to the US" he never left!! he was just abroad as he would most of the year!"

He never left - he was just abroad - this little gem must be the mother of all stupidity.
He flew into Teterboro Airport, New Jersey from Paris, France - so he returned, hence the question 'why did he return?'

Probably best to stick to copying & pasting from the Daily Mail.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 11 2019 15:43 utc | 340

Zero Hedge is the only place I can get instant news that even pretends to be serious. They are totally 'alt-right' so there's no 'socialism' for them -- It's really strange how they all go for the 'hate socialism' line -- But I've give up trying to decode everything. If you go over there, you will see that they are acting like a cargo cult who's cargo has finally come in. And really, it probably has. I even made a comment that "this is going to be a self-licking conspiracy." (They still have at least two of the requisite exploding Tesla car stories.

This is going to be a conspiracy jackpot to rival 9/11 (where 3,000 people perished). But this has that ever-flavorful PizzaGate angle, so at least there is that. I hope people did not lose sight of the huge child raping aspect of this. And somehow the Clinton Foundation is involved. And frankly, I am now ready to believe the whole insane narrative. Really. We got Big Trouble in River City here, folks. This will definitely not pass away quietly in the night. How many more conspiracies can little people such as myself handle?

Posted by: blues | Aug 11 2019 15:51 utc | 341

We really need reporters to see the body and publish photos to verify that he is indeed dead and hasn't been sneaked out to safely.

Posted by: sayless | Aug 11 2019 15:54 utc | 342

Assuming Mossad is the "employer" - and to deny this is to deny there is such a thing as a Ghislaine Maxwell - there are several points which should be remembered before speculating on the how, why, and even what(suicide, murder, rebirth).

1) Dershowitz and Wexler were minor employees themselves in this mess. Neither were "clients"/targets of blackmail. Wexler was a mark due to his wealth and Zionist vision, Dersh was the loyal legal counsel, chosen for his notorious amorality, oops I mean, he was a legendary defense attorney. But most importantly -

2) Neither was Trump, a target. Trump was attractive to Epstein because of his ties to ENORMOUS stables of young women, who are funneled in from all over the world usually when they are underage. And his hospitality industry ties are also valuable, in venue-making for various schemes. Hotels are also full of poor and desperate young employees who could be bribed into all sorts of slavetrading side-work, people forget that children are still bought and sold daily in every corner of the planet. But back to Trump -- The global honeytrap op is a "production", requiring a closed set and trained actors. Trump likely had no problem playing along so long as he was insulated from the details, and I would be very surprised if he was actual "friends" with Epstein. The larger point which is being strenuously AVOIDED by the MSM is that there was no reason to blackmail Trump throughout the decades that the Epstein/Maxwell op flourished. Clinton/UK&Gulf royalty/global financiers were who they were blackmailing, back then.

3) No one who was being blackmailed by Epstein would dare suicide him, not then, not now. That was part of the beauty of it, the elite know who not to fuck with. No one in these documents was/is that powerful, not even the various princes, named and unnamed. Epstein wasn't blackmailing people like say, Eric Prince, who has his own private army. He was blackmailing cosseted billionaires and even more cosseted antisocial royalty.

There is only one entity powerful enough to pull all of this off; the decades-long blackmail of heads of state and finance, the judicial manipulations required when it all went sloppy, the spiriting hither and yon of the "villian". One and only one intel/military agency exists, which has managed to infiltrate the US's power structure on the level necessary.

(as an historical aside, or point of order, our Donkeytale started off trolling what was literally the first large political site that was ostensibly a "public" forum - Daily Kos. A place which inherently required some sort of gatekeeping, by design. The site's creator comes from an extremely questionable background, himself(post-grad CIA interviews, family ties to El Salvadoran regime-change). He did not sign up in the "social media era" as some sort of strategic employee. This is "life" for him. If he was in fact "hired", it was well over a decade ago. His main themes are; ridiculing the average Joe for not having any political power, championing the overthrow of US-recalcitrant regimes, and electing whomever the DNC crowns - so basically, TPTB line on any given day)

Posted by: sejomoje | Aug 11 2019 16:03 utc | 343

All the evidence show us there are no men/women of honor in the US gov, fbi etc, bc if there were men/women of honour there they would have found a way to release ALL the vid/pic evidence from epsteins properties there is.
Please wake up and understand TINA is wrong! THERE IS A ALTERNATIVE (several actually) and we need to destroy the entire system and its 5th column enablers.

Posted by: Per/Norway | Aug 11 2019 16:05 utc | 344

Zack @ 168

Did you notice there's no backboard under the patient on the stretcher?
As a FD EMT for 10yrs., This is a big problem, any compressions would be futile. And you point out the EMT is not positioned properly to perform compressions. I have actually ridden on the stretcher rails to perform compressions properly, while the patient is being wheeled into the trauma room.
When you take this and everything else surrounding this case into account, it appears this incident was faked.

Posted by: RF | Aug 11 2019 16:14 utc | 345

ted01,
so what? since his release of jail years ago he had simply been roaming the very same places and his properties there. no reason to worry for him. he has the governor of the US Virgin Islands and his wife in his pocket (as if no one there had seen the movement of girls all the time, including after his release from jail and recently; journos went to interview ppl working at the airport there and of course the gov and wife refused comments)

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 16:14 utc | 346

blues @ 341

Agree. One of the benefits of Trump being in office is that all this has more of a chance of seeing the light of day.

As for socialism, Trump (as with most politicians) does understand MMT. Of course most of them use it for their own and their cronies benefit rather than the public at large. He may at some point find it politically useful to do something 'outrageous' like single payer healthcare.

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 11 2019 16:20 utc | 347

Boies, Schiller, Flexner is the law firm of David Boies who represents Victoria Giuffre, and - presumably - owns the legal success.

We represent U.S. and non-U.S. banks, broker-dealers, insurance companies, trading markets, and investment funds. And as a litigation-focused firm, we are usually free of the conflicts that would prevent “deal counsel” from pursuing litigation. Our clients include HSBC, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Deutsche Bank, BNP Paribas, American Express, and other multinational financial institutions

Like here Sater Eyed Trump Moscow Tower to Launder Cash, BTA Bank Says

New York developer Felix Sater is due to testify in Congress this week about his role in Donald Trump’s attempt to build a luxury tower in Moscow. A lawsuit filed Monday may provide new fodder for his inquisitors, with its claim that Sater, a longtime associate of Trump’s, sought to use money stolen from a bank in Kazakhstan to help develop the building.

The suit by BTA Bank JSC alleges that Sater and the wealthy Kazakh businessman Ilyas Khrapunov explored financing the tower deal in 2012 with some of the $4 billion stolen a decade ago by Khrapunov’s father-in-law, ex-BTA Chairman Mukhtar Ablyazov. While the Moscow plan fizzled, other transactions tied to Sater helped launder the purloined cash, the bank says.
...
“Sater not only met with Ilyas Khrapunov in Trump Tower to discuss laundering the stolen funds, but he also personally arranged meetings between Ilyas and Donald J. Trump to discuss possible investments,” the bank’s lawyer, Matthew L. Schwartz of Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, said in the complaint.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 16:20 utc | 348

Meh.
A lot of gabbing over what is really not all that interesting.
Clinton, whether or not he "partook", is out of power.
Dershowitz is a lawyer - useful for defending against murder, but useless otherwise.
Prince Andrew? non-entity.
Ditto anyone else I've seen mentioned in conjunction with Epstein - in particular, Trump appears quite clean.
So while there are rich people who are embarrassed by this, it is far from clear that this is worthy of conspiracy and murder. There are far easier ways - like Epstein crashing in his plane when traveling. A heart attack (he wasn't a spring chicken).
If anything, this incident is less harmful for Trump and more harmful for the general Democrat image since, like the Weinstein business, it is mostly rich and prominent liberals.
Glad to see people are active; less glad to see so much Sturm und Drang over almost literally nothing: rich people acting badly. Shocking! /sarc

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 11 2019 16:43 utc | 349

Another useful link:

https://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 16:48 utc | 350

Frances @229 I fully concur. Great comment.

There is zip, zero, zilch chance Epstein has kissed the dirt. None. He would be watched, monitored 24/7. He is by no means an average prisoner. The man held way, way, way too much information for even the crooked FBI to ignore and treat casually.

Nope. He's an extremely high valued detainee who for his own safety needed to be disappeared.

Someone upthread suggested we know little about who this man was. Very little I'd say. Kinda reminds me of Obama's resume. Why is that? You'd think someone in corporate media would have written a detailed profile on him by now, but I haven't read any such article. Have you?

And I dare say, the reason he came in was b/c his cover, whatever the hell that is/was, was getting close to being fully exposed. It's what rats do.

As for Barr's pathetic response 'I'm appalled...' Give me a break. A three sentence paragraph is all we've heard from the United States Attorney General! And he's ordered the IG, the IG folks, to conduct an investigation. Pppfffttt.

Frances' comment is spot on. Yes, jackrabbit appears to be getting onto the same page. Mr. Epstein is in the process of assuming a new identity, so yeah his old one needed to be killed off. He's done his work and his part of the operation has been concluded.

To believe his handlers would ever let him testify, let alone, hang out in an 8 x 10 jail cell is nonsensical.

And no, I'm not a damned troll.

Posted by: h | Aug 11 2019 16:49 utc | 351

Frances @ 229

Doubtful this photo was taken at any NY Fire Station.
Their abbreviation is FDNY, Fire Department New York, different from almost all other FD's around the country, and clearly on the EMT's vest in the photo. This is their history, not something new.

Posted by: RF | Aug 11 2019 16:57 utc | 352

Craig Murray's piece is very informative!

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/epsteins-death-must-be-the-start-not-the-end-of-the-investigation/

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 17:02 utc | 353

The big question is - - -
What does this latest Epstein development say about - Israel’s / Mossad environment in American politics ?
My conclusion is Israel owns American politics !
And not in a legal way, but through fraud, blackmail, child abuse and god knows what other crimes against humanity.
That is the big big investigation needed on the back of this ! How all those duel nationality politicians and advisers surround US presidents who ever that might be.
I’m not antisimite i’m Anti sereous crime and this whole thing stinks.
Your politicians are likely being blackmailed into making important world wide decisions for the benifit of Israel !
Palistine, Yemen, Iraq, Iran and on and on.

The USA sets itself up as ‘the world police’ dear god help us all !

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 11 2019 17:03 utc | 354

Epstein story is over. In a country as 'transparent' as the USA, we will hear lots of noise and read a lots of theories that will fill up the media to nausea, then NOTHING. It will be forgotten like so many unsolved murders in the story of 'law and order' USA!

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 11 2019 17:10 utc | 355

@215:

2) Ghislane has not been detained or charged - despite serious and credible allegations that have been known to the authorities for years (well before yesterday's document release).

Apparently, she did a deal in exchange for no prosecution.

Two female associates of Epstein—the socialite Ghislaine Maxwell and Epstein's former assistant Sarah Kellen—have been repeatedly accused in court filings of acting as pimps for him, recruiting and grooming young girls into their network of child sex workers, and frequently participating in sex acts with them. Kellen in particular was believed by detectives in the Palm Beach Police Department, which was the first to start unraveling the operation, to be so deeply involved in the enterprise that they prepared a warrant for her arrest as an accessory to molestation and sex with minors. In the end, she was never arrested or charged, and federal prosecutors granted her immunity in a 2007 non-prosecution agreement that described her as a "potential co-conspirator" in sex trafficking.

https://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clinton-dershowitz-on-pedophile-billio-1681039971

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 17:13 utc | 356

@354 Virgile

Yep.

Posted by: spudski | Aug 11 2019 17:23 utc | 357

@ Posted by: nottheonly1 320
Now celebrate with your buddies that nottheonly1 will no longer contribute to this forum.

I for one hope this is propaganda? I've always found your contributions insightful and always read them. I hope you'll be returning soon.

-----

My appreciation goes to Bernhard for his relentless efforts to analyze the daily onslaught of fake news in order to illuminate the actuality of events.

Also, imo these are not the words of a parting troll, quite the opposite.

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Aug 11 2019 17:23 utc | 358

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 13:43 utc | 323

The real issue not whether Epstein committed suicide or was 'helped' but his involvement with the rich and powerful, eg Dershowitz, Bill Clinton etc, that's what needs to be exposed but as per usual, such exposures will not be done by the MSM. It's also interesting that the FBI now want to make 'conspiracy theories' part of the 'war on terror'. Good timing don't you think?

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 17:31 utc | 359

Since ppl don't read the evidence, here are some of the documents released:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250478-Giuffre-Exhibits.html
this one has Giuffre correcting a few statements made by the journalist at the time in which she did not recognized her own statements, it includes the one that innocents Trump, and it includes the email which Dershowitz claims would innocent him (which it does not; this is just an email where the reporter is mentioning a possible book written by Giuffre on her story).

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6250270-Sweet-Opinion-Unsealed.html
this one has elements about Maxwell manipulating the media to attack Guiffre

this one has on p15/p23 an apparently 8 years old girl showing her buttocks in the midst of alcohol bottles; not sure exactly if she is supposed to have taken it/photographed it in Palm Beach or what
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Giuffre-unseal.pdf

Posted by: Mina | Aug 11 2019 17:33 utc | 360

@Jason - somewhere in the 130s:

Trust me dude, I know all about MK Ultra and Operation Gladio in Europe. I am a big Kennedy assassination buff. I also know that the U.S. government has lied about and covered up or prevented proper investigations into many other events. But let's use logic here re: El Paso. First I will tell you that if you believe that there were 4 shooters after what I am going to tell you here, you are an idiot and I don't want to entertain any further replies. So with that out of the way...

I have been to that Wal Mart too many times to count. That's not particularly relevant, but it should demonstrate that I've got some familiarity with it and the layout. This will also come into play with respect to some of the stuff out there in the media, including the conspiracy pushers. The parking lot is raised up from normal street level and it's about 50-60 feet up from the level of the access road (Gateway West). Wal Mart is also NOT VISIBLE from the Cielo Vista mall due to several factors, the difference in height, the presence of a movie theater, Hooters, Landry's seafood, Sam's Club, other restaurants and other buildings and VERY large parking lots and a few streets in between. The distance is approximately 1/4-2/5 of a mile from the nearest wall of Cielo Vista mall (which was Dillards West (Mens) (there are two Dillards) last I checked) and the Foot Locker from where the alleged "American Hero" (the black dude who was concealed carrying) is buried somewhere WELL inside CVM, if not on the total opposite side which would be near Macy's and Hawkins Blvd. That is about a half mile from Wal Mart. And guess what - I just checked and I was right. It's AS FAR AWAY from Wal Mart as one can get in CVM without being Macy's: https://www.simon.com/mall/cielo-vista-mall/stores/foot-locker

So FORGET anything you are reading about what happened inside Cielo Vista Mall because it's totally irrelevant and a red herring in the way I am seeing the media throw it into narratives. Including media outlets getting facts mixed up with respect to CVM and Wal Mart including who's a "hero" (not the black dude shuttling kids out of Foot Locker) and another black guy who I actually KNOW Chris Grant (he graduated a few years before me) was INSIDE WAL MART and he reported ONE SHOOTER at whom he engaged with bottles because the shooter (Crusius in the black v-neck, shooting glasses, ear protection and cargo pants seen in EVERY picture taken by Wal Mart, the media, a member of the public, and the first responders - that's the basis of another conspiracy theory making the rounds on twitter - that he wasn't wearing "cargo pants" in all pics - nonsense) initially passed over him likely due to the fact he's clearly NOT Hispanic. He ended up getting shot in the leg and back for his troubles.

To the initial ALLEGED accounts from ONE OR TWO individuals that there were more than one shooter, I have seen the MSM (not the conspiracy people) mixing up quotes and the conspiracy pushers taking segments of those quotes out of context and shuffling them around. So far I have seen ONE person saying that she say 4 shooters (all together?! yeah right and only killing 20 on the scene with 2,500+ people in the relatively small Wal Mart store?) and even her statement is dubious for the purpose of establishing that version. Furthermore, the shooter was caught about 1/10th of a mile away in his car leaving the scene. There was no narrative management going on prior to his arrest. My friend of a long time managed at least the majority of the first response calls at the command center there. He's not a cop, but a former "high ranking" EPFD fireman and EMT. The cops arrived at the scene within 6 minutes.

On top of that, there were at least two (probably just two) concealed carry citizens in Wal Mart, one of whom at least was detained by cops as an initially suspected shooter because he had drawn his weapon, but let go. The shooter was long gone by that point and patrol car pulled him over for the arrest on a nearby street corner (you can see it in pictures including the conspiracy minded Twatters' feeds). There was a lot of confusion. But there are also numerous videos taken by phone cams making the rounds that show people under tables and you can clearly hear the sound of a SINGLE rifle being fired within the store at the time of the shooting. The initial stories ON THE GROUND were that there were TWO shooters with one dead and one on the run (the Crusius guy) but nobody was in the store to shoot them and the dead "shooter" was actually just a customer.

My friend was at that Wal Mart yesterday and they had a brown VW Passat under canopies while the shooter was pulled over in a Honda Civic. Who knows what's up with the Passat, but I have scoured my social media accounts for people who knew someone at the store and not a single one was willing to say there were more than one based on what they had been told. My next door neighbor, as I mentioned earlier, was on the phone with one of her sons just as the shooter entered the store. The media is not reporting any more on her because the family had enough and the son in question is already back in his own state (funeral was Friday). Trust me on this too - I traffic in circles that are VERY conspiracy minded on social media (meaning my own friends and acquaintances on FB and in my phone contacts list). Still, none of them are buying the 4-shooter B.S. I will follow up on this Passat story as I am able, and I'll be there in about 2 weeks so you can be sure I will be asking around without trying to inflame any sentiments. It's a very close knit city; much more so than any other Texas city and probably city of that size anywhere in the U.S.

Let's just use logic anyway - when you actually break down the timeline, the geographical/physical details of the general area, take note of where everything is in comparison to Wal Mart and read what people are really saying, the whole 4-shooter story evaporates. That's why there are some, such as the "cargo pants" angle, trying so hard to hang onto any shred of a theory that they can use to gain followers and views. And if there were indeed FOUR shooters all in the same basic vicinity, then the one girl saying so would be dead along with anybody she happened to be with at the time, yet none were even shot. She was clearly Hispanic and not very bright looking, no offense to her.

I literally cannot wait for the first full-scale YouTube productions (or other platform if they get removed) that purport to put the whole thing together into a solid-seeming narrative "proving" there were multiple shooters. But when they do, and if you see one, know this: THEY ARE BUNK.

Anyway like I said I'll be there soon enough and if there is ANYTHING suspicious about the 'official story' (so far the only thing "official" is that Patrick Crusius did the shooting) I will make note of it in a follow-up providing the topic is closely enough related that I can get away with another novel like the one I'm typing here.

I apologize to the rest of the thread, but this incident truly did hit home, and I am in a unique (for MoA) position to shed light on it.

Posted by: KC | Aug 11 2019 17:43 utc | 361

@ William Gruff 319

BINGO!

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 11 2019 17:50 utc | 362

I was incorrect about the Sam's Club. It's on the other side of Wal Mart. Still, you can see from the previous mall map and the one linked here, that Cielo Vista Mall has absolutely no relevance to the crime itself. Trust me that Wal Mart isn't even visible from CVM unless you're outside in the west parking lot far away from the Dillards which is the western-most store in the mall.

The Cielo Vista Mall / Wal Mart area of El Paso

Posted by: KC | Aug 11 2019 17:57 utc | 363

I think that given what we know, there was very likely a conspiracy to bring about the death of Epstein. If that was the case then the main question is whether it was by murder or "assisted suicide."

It's fascinating to consider that we actually know almost nothing about the first alleged suicide attempt three weeks ago on 23 July. How can that be? The promoted narrative is that Epstein "was found" with some marks on his neck. "Found?" By whom? He had a cell mate. Where there any objects that could have caused marks on the neck? We literally know nothing about what happened three weeks ago though there was a witness.

The warden of the Metropolitan Correctional Facility is apparently someone named Shirley Skipper-Scott. Why have we heard nothing from or about her. Why does every communication from the US Federal Government these days seem to come either by Twitter or by anonymous leak?

Even though every holding area in that facility is supposed to be checked every so often--at least every 30 minutes is what I've seen--Epstein was not found until the morning after the night he died. He was transferred from a cell with a cell mate to a monitored cell--in both of which situations he could be observed by someone--to a cell alone and then not checked during the night.

And how exactly did Epstein hang himself? The cell ceilings are, I have read, too high to reach with nothing to attach a hanging device to. And the sheets/clothes issued to prisoners are not strong enough to hold a person's weight in any case.

I think that B is not far off the mark to say that Epstein was "suicided" if that term is understood to indicate EITHER murder OR facilitated suicide, though perhaps the title should have been phrased as a question.

The only issue is who on the inside would have been doing the coordinating of the murder/assisted suicide. Although Epstein was moved to a place where no one could see the deed--whatever deed it was--someone such as Warden Shirley Skipper-Scott will have to be sacrificed for show, so presumably she wasn't the one to authorize the transfer of Epstein. Who, inside the prison, could coordinate all the moves needed to make the death happen yet still avoid being held responsible for doing so?

Given the precedent of the media's incompetent and/or complicit performance in connection with the 23 July incident, we have to ask whether they will not be content to leave the death as a "mystery" that we'll never know the answer to.

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Aug 11 2019 17:59 utc | 364

Are you kidding? Epstein was freed by the power mongers and is partying this weekend. Read Infinite Unknown website and J Magi's card spread.

Posted by: Salle C | Aug 11 2019 18:06 utc | 365

Last thing about the EP shooting - Chris was 'officially' shot twice in the lower back/torso. Initially friends had said he was shot in the leg, but I haven't talked to him (or his siblings) in years. I'm just going by the news and Twatter. Suffice it to say that the shooter initially passed him over and only shot him with what I am guessing were intended to be in non-lethal areas of the body (or were poorly aimed anyway).

Posted by: KC | Aug 11 2019 18:21 utc | 366

RF @345

Did not notice that. Good catch. Very true.

Looks more like people pretending to resuscitate someone. Could also be that the EMS crew knew Epstein was long dead, but were pressured in some way by the jail staff into transporting.

Posted by: Zack | Aug 11 2019 18:46 utc | 367

Grieved @294--

Must second your appraisal of Phryne's frock now @274 & 282. I must also commend JR's revealing reply @283 as it outs it for what it is--a longstanding intellitroll. The idea of apologizing to the rich for allowing them to become that way is an excellent approach having great merit.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 11 2019 18:57 utc | 368

Epstein is still alive. Elaborate theater. Why bring him back from Paris and arrest him in NJ? Why not facilitate a heart attack (shellfish toxin) or a fatal accident?

Answer: So he could fake his death. You can't kill him. He's got insurance. How many policies?

His brother, Mark; Maxwell, Wexner; and any number of strangers around the world who could spring the trap which releases horrifying video evidence against Trump, Clintons, Andrew, The Dersh, And many, many heavy hitters - who knows who.

Epstein is a creep, but there is no indication that he is stupid.

What else is fishy? The attempted suicide (prime the audience), the lack of due diligence at the jail, The big head on the gurney, No Ghislaine arrest, Netanyahu wants to smear opponent Ehud Barack (perhaps #1)...

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Aug 11 2019 19:11 utc | 369

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Aug 11 2019 19:11 utc | 369

Not dead? Evidence please?

You might as well say he's been replaced by an alien imposter. What a wsste of space your speculation is.

Posted by: Barovsky | Aug 11 2019 19:34 utc | 370

There would be quite a few moving parts busting Epstein out of jail/faking his death and a number of ways it could publicly fall apart. Have a hard time seeing what the reward would be to them for taking on that risk. Seems easier/cheaper/simpler to just have Epstein killed.

If they wanted to make it look like they take care of their own, they could still kill him and then start a secondary narrative that he may have been busted out of jail.

Posted by: Zack | Aug 11 2019 19:43 utc | 371

Epstein must be kept alive in order to prevent the destruction of any number of high powered individuals by the exposure of nasty paedophile sex tapes.

I propose that Epstein called the tune, arranging the ploy because he had these "insurance policies" to release the nasty tapes around the world should he meet his end.

The reward is that no tapes of Clintons, Trumps, Sultans, princes, High powered lawyers, actors, et al will be released. They get to continue as they are.

Yes there are many moving parts. There have been many moving parts throughout history.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Aug 11 2019 20:08 utc | 372

@327 sombody
"This here is a pretty good analysis connecting Epstein with offshore money"


There is a much more direct connection and it runs through Ghislaine Maxwell, daughter of Robert Maxwell. While Ghislaine is already notorious for her role as Epstein's chief procurer, the basis for their longstanding relationship may have much deeper roots tracing back to her father and his connections to organized crime in the Soviet Union.


In their book 'Robert Maxwell, Israel's Superspy:' the authors (Gordon Thomas and Martin Dillon - both credible investigative journalists) explore in some detail the links between Maxwell and the Russo-jewish mafya. He is purported to have been instrumental in setting up looting schemes and facilitating money laundering operations offshore to hide the proceeds. 'The authors claim that Maxwell was [Semion] Mogilevich’s bagman for nearly five years. He even organised Israeli passports for the gangster and 23 of his associates in 1988.' (Supposedly Maxwell's take was in the order of 15% to 20%)


This link provides some fascinating details of Maxwell's activities in the former Soviet Union.

some excerpts:

--Another theme is the authors claim of the very little known business connections that Robert Maxwell had with the Russian Mafia... to loot assets out of the former USSR and Eastern Europe into the West.

-- But the stage for such massive flight capital was already set before the 1991 break-up of the Soviet Union. The Thomas and Dillon book describes the role played by Robert Maxwell in cahoots with KGB bosses and mafia kingpins in arranging such looting schemes originating in the Eastern Bloc before 1991, during the 1980s under Gorbachevs perestroika and Yuri Andropovs leadership.

- ... to transfer their assets abroad with the assistance of organized crime, in a similar secret fashion to what Maxwell was providing to Mossad katsas. In the latter case, the authors say Maxwell met and colluded with Russian Mafia bosses such as Simeon Yukovich Mogilevich from the Rising Sun (aka Solntsevo) crime syndicate.

- The many companies provided cover for the Mossad operatives to infiltrate the Eastern Bloc.


It was during this time frame that, according to Vicki Ward: " I think late 1980s saying that really what he was doing – and he lived by the way, in a quite a humble apartment back then, was running a round recovering stolen money for the government and for private clients...And the interesting thing about that is if you know how to recover stolen money, you also know how to hide money.

Professor Thomas Volscho, who has been researching Epstein for a book he is writing, ...noted that Epstein controlled “tons of entities (LLCs).” LLC’s stands for Limited Liability Companies, which are also known as “shell companies”...They are also used by money launderers as conduits to move monies around offshore without attracting undue attention from the authorities.

It was also during this time frame that Epstein went from living "in a quite a humble apartment" to an enormously wealthy mysterious financier with a taste for the extravagant.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 11 2019 20:10 utc | 373

Further to post #373:

Excerpt from deposition (2010) of Maritza Vasquez worked for Karin Models in Miami as a bookkeeper from 1998-2003 & from 2003-08 after Jean-Luc Brunel dissolved it and opened MC2 when Epstein began funding it and model apartments
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1148819748983123968.html


Q. Did you ever hear about Jeffrey Epstein's relationships, who he was with: male, female, a person's name?

Answer. I knew, because Eve told me that he had a relationship with a woman that her father was very wealthy and that's how he started his own money. And if you tell me the name, maybe I can remember. But I don't...

Q. Ghislaine Maxwell

Answer. Yes

Q. And her father was Robert Maxwell?

Answer. Yes

Posted by: pantaraxia | Aug 11 2019 20:16 utc | 374

'somebody' @ 327 gives a helpful link to this article...which he calls 'a pretty good analysis.'

Once there you find this:

Russian efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election represent the most recent expression of Moscow’s longstanding desire to undermine the U.S. led liberal democratic order,” says the January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment (from the CIA, NSA, and FBI).

Masha Gessen writes in The New Yorker...bla bla bla...

Yeah thanks for the Atlantic Council take 'somebody.'

We'll be sure to take very seriously your 'work' on this forum. In fact the thread has quite a lot of, ehrm, 'interesting' stuff from you.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 11 2019 21:28 utc | 375

Flankerbandit @375 - Great catch!

Posted by: spudski | Aug 11 2019 21:32 utc | 376

"Hanged himself in his cell."

How often have we heard that one before?

Let me tell you something about the Bureau of Prisons standard cells. There isn't any place in them to hang yourself, unless you loop something around an upper bunker post and then more or less sit down and strangle that way.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons is known for having inmates beaten to death in their cells. There was a famous case in St. Louis, in the Transit Center there. A Native American made a fuss with the guards and ended up "committing suicide." The local Medical Examiner wanted to verify the cause of death, but the prison refused him entry. He got a court order and went in anyway. Using a blood detector in the cell was reported as "lighting up the whole cell." The FBI was called in. The agent in charge took the bloody clothes of the victim and threw them in the trunk of his car, then rode around with them - destroying the evidence - until he complained they were stinking up his car. The Federal Department of Justice threatened the Missouri state with withdrawal of law enforcement funds unless they dropped the investigation. All this was reported in, IIRC, Rolling Stone.

But this doesn't solve their problems. They still have the Maxwell bitch who can be forced to testify. So they're going to have to bump her off as well. And that is going to make Epstein's death pretty obviously not suicide.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Aug 11 2019 22:13 utc | 377

377
"They still have the Maxwell bitch who can be forced to testify. "

Seems like she is the unknown quantity in this whole story.
Where is she? Is she in some kind of custody?
Has she been charged with anything/
If she has any sense she will get outta Dodge and go to ground in the Promised Land.

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 11 2019 22:28 utc | 378

Mina @346

There was no arrest warrant 'years ago' - there was on July 25 2019 when he returned to the US.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 11 2019 22:30 utc | 379

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 11 2019 21:28 utc | 375

Sure. You have to wonder though what the uproar about Russiagate has been about.
Maybe Democrats thinking they could get at Republicans this way, maybe Ukraine paying for support, maybe former MI6 freelancers in search for money ....

I think there is a lot more to it.

When Gorbachev left the arms race, the US believed they had won. They thought they could take over the sphere of influence of the former Soviet Union and divide it in small nations to be integrated into the EU or occupied in the Middle East and Afghanistan, the smaller the unit the better to exploit the resources without paying for a state. They advised the Russian nomenklatura on how to become oligarchs and transfer their money into the Western financial system for security. They got Yelzin elected.

The Russian oligarch system became very much like the US system, but the Russian industrial military complex had not been defeated.

Russians thought "the West" would integrate them (there was a discussion of Russia joining NATO I think) but the West continued to fight to the point where Putin who had been very much a "Western" guy felt he had to mount a defense. That was after Yugoslavia, Iraq and finally Libya.

In its attempt to split and take over Russia "the West" - mainly Britain and the US - had created a lot of channels - money laundering, mafia, political and religious movements, passports for Russian oligarchs that could be used both ways - Chabad, Russian immigration to Israel, Christian conservatives, the National Rifle Association, offshore accounts, hackers ... whatever. All these things work both ways.

There is a hell of a lot of Russian money in Western offshore accounts that needs to be laundered and may be used for corruption. There are a hell of a lot of Russian oligarchs in the global economy to invest in politicians and political movements. And there are a lot of Russian woman looking for a billionaire :-))

Trumpism and Brexit are certainly projects of the indigenous oligarch movement against taxes and regulation, same as the destabilization of Russia was done via indigenous oligarch.

Trump is the revenge for Jelzin. And there is nothing US/British secret services (who presumably kicked off Russiagate) can do about it.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 11 2019 22:36 utc | 380

I heard he was already buried at sea. It might be treasonous to doubt it.

Posted by: Featherless | Aug 11 2019 22:56 utc | 381

c1ue @349

"There are far easier ways - like Epstein crashing in his plane when traveling. A heart attack (he wasn't a spring chicken)."

Exactly - why make things so complicated.
So much easier to create a way more convincing story about an accident/suicide in a Middle Eastern or European country.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 11 2019 23:12 utc | 382

@334 Noirette Some wider shots here:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-told-jail-guards-18894171

The photos you refer to were definitely taken at the New York-Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital, but note that the first photo in the mirror article shows a body-bag on the gurney, which would mean the more widely circulated photos that you linked to are faked.

The angle that the photo was taken is also all wrong.

I'm guessing, but someone might have taken a photo much later when the medics were loading an now-empty gurney back into the ambulance (i.e. when nobody cared any more about blocking camera). Such a photo really has no intrinsic value, so maybe they photo-shopped Epstein's head into it to make it "sellable".


Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 11 2019 23:17 utc | 383

Where is the solid proof that Epstein is dead? After years of being lied to by the FBI, i.e. 911, Anthrax inv., and every mass shooting. Why should we be expected to believe them this time? WAKE UP AMERICA OR WE'RE ALL THEOUGH!!111

Posted by: joetv | Aug 11 2019 23:54 utc | 384

Barovsky @370: Not dead? Evidence please?

The authorities should produce evidence that Epstein is, in fact, dead.

It'd be easy to allow the victims to examine the body. Why don't they do THAT? After all, Epstein has no family to object.

CCTV's "malfunction" is too convenient.

If Epstein committed suicide (the official story) then there would be no reason for this "convenience".

The "malfunction" means that we can't see if Epstein was attempting to kill himself or if someone was attempting to kill him. But we also can't see if neither of those occurred.

If someone killed Epstein, there should be signs of a struggle on the body. If Epstein's "suicide" was a means of arranging for his escape, then his body was replaced with someone else's body.

Produce the body

Let the victim's examine it. Televise their examination in real-time. Allow them to bring their own medical examiner. It's the only way to know if Epstein is truly dead.

Those in this tread and elsewhere that are not demanding that the authorities produce the body and arrest Ghislane are most likely working to distract and confuse us.

The Epstein case has been botched in so many ways that we can no longer trust the authorities. It's reasonable, at this point, to question anything they tell us, and expect the worst.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 11 2019 23:55 utc | 385

@379
Correction - should be July 6 as date of return.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 12 2019 0:02 utc | 386

Produce Epstein's body, arrest Ghislane

If the supposed suicide was cover for Epstein's arranged escape then Epstein will be free to conduct, or help start, a similar operation elsewhere.

Uncanny parallels between Robert Maxwell and Epstein raise serious questions about Epstein's "suicide". We know that RM was a Mossad operative who also conducted influencing and possibly blackmail ops. Some believe that RM's death was also faked which would have allow him to continue to provide his knowledge/expertise to others, notably Ghislane.

If Epstein was helped to escape prison then thousands of girls may be placed at risk of falling victim to a future blackmail op and the integrity of our democracy/free society is also at put at risk. IMO we must be certain that Epstein is dead.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 12 2019 0:26 utc | 387

@ Atlantic Council 'somebody' 380

Look I have no interest in feeding an obvious shill, there are far too many here already, and you strike up conversations amongst yourselves in a veritable troll takeover of this forum.

Just a quick recap here...you press the meaningless and totally unconnected 'Russian oligarch' button repeatedly, while leaving out that the only OLIGARCH Epstein was connected to is the rag trade magnate Leslie Wexner, who seems unable to explain just how Epstein got Wexner's $70 million East Side mansion for ten bucks...or how he also got power of attorney and drained hundreds of millions off him.

Instead you give us links to Russiagate BS...Stephen Colbert videos...and extensive quotes from the Guardian etc...

You are way too obvious. And you have polluted this board with thousands of words of verbal diarrhea [Iran-Contra? Really?]

Do like your other troll buddy just did and quit. People here don't appreciate being played by two bit paid flunkies.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Aug 12 2019 0:29 utc | 388

One additional crucial point: Closed circuit TV camera systems do not fail. Maybe if they are feeding to a hard drive, that could fail. But surely that is not likely. The camera system has no moving parts, and no high-power components. Ask anybody in electronics how likely it is that such a stable type of system would somehow just 'fail' at a crucial moment. It's almost as unlikely as a giant meteor coming down right on top of the prison.

It is not in the realm of the credible.

Posted by: blues | Aug 12 2019 1:28 utc | 389

@ Posted by: flankerbandit 388

Do like your other troll buddy just did and quit. People here don't appreciate being played by two bit paid flunkies.

Not trying to troll you here flankerbandit, lord knows you're way better versed in this universe around us than i am. However, i am curious why you consider Nottheonly1 a troll? I didn't understand your link to the prison chat whatever, but seems Nottheonly showed it was someone else using an exclamation point at the end. So, i'm left wondering why you consider a fellow who lived in Hawaii for a couple of decades and now lives in Uruguay, to be a troll, or trollish in your very valid opinion? Imho you should both be apologizing to each other for a misunderstanding, but i'll wait your response, if i get one. They seem to be pretty rare for me on this site.

I learn way more here then i'll ever be able to offer in return.

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Aug 12 2019 1:32 utc | 390

@389

Kinda like the missing 18 minutes in the Nixon tapes . . .

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 12 2019 1:41 utc | 391

Blues

Epstein was no longer on suicide watch or in a suicide prevention cell.

He was in the special handling unit for prisoners removed from the general population for fear of being physical attacked and he was not in a cell with CCTV camera.

He had the cell to himself which was enclosed, essentially solitary confinement which of course is ridiculous for someone who had supposedly attempted suicide two weeks ago but maybe consistent with someone who feared attack from inmates.

Guards were supposed to check on him every 30 minutes but failed to do so the night before and morning of his death.

Imho based on known evidence he was suicided, either voluntarily or involuntarily. It is possible he bribed his way into position to off himself.

As I stated upthread when these facts were divulged yesterday I believe he was Jack Ruby-ed. That is, the officials knowing he was suicidal created the conditions to make him to follow through. Or possibly he was murdered under the same circumstances under the conditions but why do that when he might do himself and everybodys' hands can remain clean.

It is wholly preposterous to believe he was allowed to live and escape. That makes no sense on any level whatsoever beyond a Tom Clancy novel or Batman movie.

Killing him was easier and allowing him to suicide himself the best of all the outcomes.

Dead men tell no donkeytales.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 12 2019 2:01 utc | 392

The guards were doing LBTGQ or whaever it's called.. explains the missing video eh?

Posted by: wayne | Aug 12 2019 2:02 utc | 393

Aye, myself and me

I had a long back and forth with not the only 1 in last week's Week in Review thread and he alluded obliquely to the fact he was in Uruguay for medical treatment.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 12 2019 2:28 utc | 394

donkeytale:

Killing him was easier and allowing him to suicide himself the best of all the outcomes.

You may be right, but why not be sure? Easy enough to confirm that the body is Epstein's by letting the victims examine the body. Epstein has no family so there's no one to object. The authorities have screwed up the Epstein case so much that public concern is justified.

Epstein represents a threat to the public. The public deserves to be CERTAIN that he has not escaped.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 12 2019 2:30 utc | 395

JR - I would be up for that but then people would say the corpse was a stand in or made out wax...I mean the preposterous ness will never end.

Bevin also has a theory in the open thread that Epstein is a bigger problem dead than alive.

I get that CT tickles your brain and I enjoy your schtick even as it makes me snort coffee through my nose.

You really should use that imagination to write political suspense thrillers dude. Tom Clancy got nothing on you.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 12 2019 2:44 utc | 396

Epstein autopsy...

"An autopsy has been completed of Jeffrey Epstein, but the cause of his death needs further investigation, New York’s chief medical examiner Barbara Sampson said Sunday in a statement. “Today, a medical examiner performer the autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein,” the statement reads. “The ME’s determination is pending further information at this time. At the request of those representing the decedent, and with the awareness of the federal prosecutor (Dr. Michael Baden) to observe the autopsy examination. This is routine practice.”

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/jeffrey-epstein-cause-death-determination-233943522.html

Posted by: dh | Aug 12 2019 2:49 utc | 397

donkeytale @396:

CT tickles your brain ... You really should use that imagination to write political suspense thrillers dude.

I could never compete with the establishment cabal that you work for.

Consider:

> The Novichok ruse to secret away the Skripals;

> An ex-President flying on "Lolita Express" 26 times or more;

> The Western-"democracies" supporting a Jihadi proxy army;

> Russiagate propaganda nonsense;

> List Of Clinton Associates Who Allegedly Died Mysteriously Or Committed Suicide Before Testimony

> Mega Group, Maxwells and Mossad: The Spy Story at the Heart of the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal

> A high-profile prisoner in a highly secure US prison winds up dead or seemingly dead because he was not checked on despite an apparent suicide attempt and a complaint that someone tried to kill him - oh, and there's no CCTV either.

I could go on and on but I won't belabor the point.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 12 2019 3:26 utc | 398

He never had a chance. He would have brought down too many people. There’s no shortage of bad people who I’m sure needed him gone before he talked

Posted by: Danny | Aug 12 2019 3:43 utc | 399

@322 Jackrabbit "Epstein simply had to ingest some chemical/medicine that slowed his heart. That gets him to the hospital."

You know, if I were in his shoes and someone - even someone I "trusted" - handed me a pill and said "here, swallow this" then my response to that advice would not be fit to print.

I mean, let's be real here: Epstein would have no way of telling a "get out of gaol" pill from a cyanide pill.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 12 2019 5:01 utc | 400

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