Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 10, 2019

Epstein Suicided

Unsurprisingly Jeffrey Epstein was found dead, presumably by suicide, as that is what 'officials' claim:

Jailed multimillionaire financier and accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein has died by suicide, according to two law enforcement sources.

He was taken from New York's Metropolitan Correctional Center on Saturday morning in cardiac arrest and died at an area hospital, the sources told CNN.
...
Just weeks ago, Epstein was placed on a suicide watch after he was found July 23 in his Manhattan jail cell with marks on his neck, a law enforcement source and a source familiar with the incident told CNN at the time.

Just yesterday a court released the first 2,000 pages of a civil case against Epstein's madame, Ghislaine Maxwell:

The documents, the largest cache to be released in the 13 years since Epstein’s case began, offer brutal details about Epstein’s trafficking of teenage girls in Palm Beach, New York and overseas — as well as Maxwell’s obsessive and often abusive quest to provide him with new girls over a span of years in the early to mid 2000s.
...
[Epstein victim Virginia Roberts Giuffre], who turned 36 on Friday, names a number of other men in politics, academia and business that she says she was directed to have sex with. In a 2017 interview with the Miami Herald, Giuffre said that Epstein wanted her to please various influential people then so that he could learn about their sexual peccadilloes and use them as leverage if he needed to.

While there’s no direct evidence contained in the court record substantiating her accounts with prominent men, Giuffre did provide testimony and evidence to corroborate her claims of exploitation at the hands of Epstein and Maxwell through photographs, plane logs and even a medical record from Presbyterian Hospital in New York where Giuffre was taken by Epstein after a particularly abusive sex episode.
...
Some of the testimony released Friday is difficult to read, as when one 15-year-old Swedish girl, shaking and crying in fear, told a butler who worked for two of Epstein’s closest friends that she had been taken to Epstein’s private island in the Caribbean and ordered to have sex with him and others. The butler, in a sworn statement, said the girl, visibly traumatized, told him that Epstein and Maxwell had physically threatened to harm her and seized her passport to keep her on the island, according to the butler’s statement.

The released court papers can be found via Courthousenews.

Some of those influential people who Epstein, or the organization behind him, blackmailed, will be quite happy that he is gone. They will now try to bury the rest of the case. Giuffre and other witnesses better watch their backs.

Posted by b on August 10, 2019 at 13:50 UTC | Permalink

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Correction: the guy's name is Howard Goldstein, but the toll free number for Scott listed in Epstein's black book under Ghislaine Maxwell's name has "w/Howie" written next to it.

Posted by: Zack | Aug 14 2019 18:40 utc | 501

Who’d have thought? There’s rot in the US prison system, even on the federal level.

Turns out the New York facility where Epstein spent his final days only had an acting warden. It hasn’t had a proper warden for well over a year. Said acting warden, Mrs Shirley Skipper-Scott, has now been relieved of her duties and has been transferred to some other region.

Turns out the guards on the night shift of Epstein’s death have been working overtime, on a massive scale. Due to manpower shortages, prisons allow employees of other professions to step in for proper prison guards. That was also the case with at least one of the individuals on duty during the critical night. Turns out that instead of doing the prescribed checks on inmates, every 30 minutes or so, they slept on the job. Must have been a very rude awakening. The night-shift guys have since been suspended, pending further steps by their bosses at the BOP.

Acting, acting… Just like with the FAA the Federal Bureau of Prisons only has an acting director. And just like the FAA and our specific New York prison, it hasn’t had a proper director for well over a year. Wow.

But who cares about such makeshift conditions at home. The important thing is the bloated military and intelligence budget. There, all is well. US ships still cruising the Strait of Taiwan, the Persian Gulf. Color revolution in Hong Kong underway. There may be rot at the center of the Kraken’s body, but the tentacles still work, awe-inspiringly. Americans can rest easy.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 14 2019 19:57 utc | 502

Ghislaine Maxwell's "boyfriend" is on the Council of Foreign Relations. "The 57-year-old British heiress was discovered laying low in a $3 million "secluded oceanfront property at the end of a long private road" in New England with her boyfriend, 43-year-old tech CEO Scott Borgerson, according to the Daily Mail.
The socialite's New England hideaway is an imposing three-story colonial property with five-bedrooms, wraparound terraces and sweeping grounds which reach to the ocean. The property is owned by tech CEO and maritime academic Dr Scott Borgerson.
Borgerson was seen by DailyMail.com in July running errands in the affluent community of Manchester-by-the-Sea, a half-hour drive from Boston.
The former Coast Guard officer, is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He was married and is believed to have two children. -Daily Mail" https://www.zerohedge.com/news/201
"Largely unbeknownst to the public, many media executives and top journalists of almost all major U.S. news outlets, political and business magazines, public broadcasters and press agencies have long been members of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).
Established in 1921 as a private, bipartisan organization, the CFR and its close to 5000 elite members have for decades shaped U.S. foreign policy and public discourse about it. As one Council member famously explained, their goal has indeed been to establish an “empire”, albeit a “benevolent” one." https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-14/epsteins-madam-found-ghislaine-maxwell-living-tech-ceo-3m-mansion-near-boston "“I gave to the DOJ documents concerning both the origin of the Russian probe and the probe into Hillary Clinton, both of which I was involved in, and both of which turned out to be less about law enforcement than they were about political espionage,” Byrne told SaraACarter.com Monday. He noted that the communications will prove that the FBI also had an operation into Clinton Foundation that he was directly involved in.
THIS IS GOING TO BECOME THE GREATEST POLITICAL SCANDAL IN US HISTORY. IF WE SURVIVE IT, AND IF RULE OF LAW RETURNS TO AMERICA, IT WILL BE DUE TO ONE MAN: BILL BARR, BYRNE SAID." https://saraacarter.com/overstock-ceo-turned-over-docs-to-doj-on-fbis-russian-and-hillary-clinton-probes/ Looks like palace intrigue at the very top, which is where the most serious forms of debauchery tend to flourish.

Posted by: Bruce | Aug 14 2019 20:42 utc | 503

How convenient, part 2: Prince Andrew announced his retirement today from public life.

https://twitter.com/braintaylorbbc/status/1161313756401537026?s=21

Posted by: Lozion | Aug 14 2019 21:17 utc | 504

An ominous development

After I wrote this comment (#217) on the Week in Review/Open Thread, I got to thinking: what happens now?

The most cynical viewpoint is that the Epstein arrest and "suicide" is nothing more than a public spectacle. That there never was any real interest in seeking justice for the victims, only a desire to make it all go away.

But the public ain't buyin' it. There's a great deal of skepticism about the "suicide".

Now, some skepticism was to be expected and would've been planned for. Critics can be derided as being "conspiracy theorists" or Russian stooges (a smear which 'Morning Joe' dutifully brought forth), or the waters muddied with talk of the powerful people that wanted Epstein silenced.

But its not working. The "suicide" has practically become a joke, and there's a fairly widespread belief that Epstein might still be alive (the plausibility of which has been described in some detail here at MoA).

Political murders often result in secondary and tertiary deaths to eliminate witnesses and witting or unwitting tools of the plotters. Sadly, we may see this pattern play out with the Epstein case as well.

In this regard, it's quite disturbing that the cause of death as still not been determined.

The clear way to 'stick' a result in the public's mind at this point involves the death of one or more of the late night guards. Subsequent to this death/deaths a discovery is made of their having received payoffs from a wealthy person. This can be bags of cash at their residence with text messages and/or gps data that puts them at same location as the wealthy guy. This would essentially prove that the guard/guards killed Epstein on behalf of this wealthy person. Of course the wealthy person also "commits suicide" but it may not be a real suicide as that person's identity may simply be faked by the intelligence agencies.

Such a CYA 'op' may already have been initiated. We heard today that the late night prison guards have told investigators that they doctored the log books to cover for their not checking in Epstein. This is rather strange "news" because we were already told days ago that guards had not checked in on Epstein.

If the guards readily admitted to not checking in on Epstein, why would they have doctored the log book?

Announcing this "news" provides motive for a possible "suicide" and prepare the public for upcoming revelations. The public is more apt to believe what they have been prepared for.

I writing this now because after the fact we will be inundated with STFU comments like "no one coulda see THAT coming" and ridicule for anyone suggesting that the guard/guards demise might've been planned.

Naturally, I hope this foreboding is wrong. But the guards would be wise to take precautions.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 15 2019 1:18 utc | 505

"multiple" broken bones in his neck - which "can" happen when a person hangs himself, they say:
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/15/us/jeffrey-epstein-autopsy-broken-neck/index.html

Maybe.

Posted by: Hope | Aug 15 2019 7:04 utc | 506

Jackrabbit @506

Just to add that this unattributed information is effectively pointing the finger at the Guards:

1. There was no cell mate.

2. No-one other than the Guards entered the cell.

3. There were shrieks and screams coming from the cell.

4. The guards were heard yelling 'Breathe, Epstein, breathe'.

The scenario is similar to a cop who shouts 'Don't move' to create an alibi to shoot a non-moving person.

All this unattributed information is emerging in a suspiciously plausible way? To get the public to play Nancy Drew, join the dots and solve the crime? Are the Guards being framed?

Posted by: ADKC | Aug 15 2019 7:38 utc | 507

This is from a BBC journalist 2 days ago
https://twitter.com/BrainTaylorBBC/status/1161313756401537026
(Prince Andrew retiring from public life)
but the BBC website has found no time or space to report it... Bad for the UK intl reputation? For the Dow Jones? For the Crown?

Posted by: Mina | Aug 15 2019 8:01 utc | 508

@509 Jackrabbit I agree with one point you are making: the sheeple simply ain't buying into the bulls**t story, and this lack of buy-in is causing consternation amongst the gatekeepers of the MSM.

And the more they shout "It was suicide! Was too! Was too!" then the more that they are being treated with derision.

They have so severely jumped the shark with this one that they very clearly don't know what to do or say next.

Nobody who has been following this case knows what really happened in that cell, except for one thing: in no way, shape, or form was this a "oops, fell asleep for a minute and while I was dozing the dude just upped 'n' suicided himself".

Pig's f**kin' arse he did.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 15 2019 11:18 utc | 509

Some thoughts as I try to process this
- Surely Epstein has info backed-up as insurance, but maybe his downfall occured when they had located and recovered this
- The painting of Bill thing is interesting, appears to be punishment
- Seems to me this matter should be treated as an issue of national security as it is possible that decisions were and may continue to be influenced by what underlies this case.
- Clearly the guards were told it would be better if they went somewhere else for a nap and they won't know exactly who it was that advised them.
- This is an opportunity. Loose ends are exposed.
- My sympathies to the young victims of the state.
- U.S. credibility is on the line, for what it is worth/if there is any.
- Media continues to prove thier (lack of) worth. I will not look at media as what is the point in reading lies. So I am starving for insight.

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 12:36 utc | 510

@511 jared I have assumed that the FBI raid on his New York mansion was specifically designed to scoop up any "insurance" he had stashed away there, and I would not be at all surprised if his Pedo Island residence was also systematically swept clean.

Whoever wanted Epstein "suicided" might have made the calculation that all of Epstein's blackmail material had been bagged, and from that moment on he was a dead man walking.

Maybe that confidence will prove to be misplaced, and Epstein had some hidden stash that nobody knows about except whoever is tasked with relaxing their grip on the dead-man's throttle.

Or maybe not. Maybe it is all burning in a furnace somewhere.

Not that it really matters to Epstein. He's past caring one way or the other.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 15 2019 12:51 utc | 512

What we know so far is a jumbled mess of intrigue.

The cell mate
Was a dirty cop and a killer. Why pair this guy with Epstein?

The guards
One of them was unexpectedly placed on nightwatch duty, we are told, due to the lack of manpower.

Who was the new guy that was conveniently(?) placed on watch the night of Epstein's suicide/murder/escape?

CCTV
Wasn't working. WTF?

Body identification
Done by Epstein's brother who may inherit Epstein's estate (or what's left of it after victim civil suits) if Epstein is really dead (not escaped).

Why wasn't there a DNA match? As a registered sex offender, the authorities should have Epstein's DNA. Some of the victims may also have Epstein's DNA.

The Media
Acting as bullshit pipeline (as always):

The official story changed on Wednesday after it became clear that nobody was buying the "suicide" crap:
> "shrieks" heard from Epstein's jail cell
This news comes with a decided lack of detail: Who heard the shrieks? Who reported it? When was it first reported? How long did the "shrieks" last? Etc.

> Guards doctored the log book
Despite having immediately admitted to not following procedure

> Broken neck bone!
Someone didn't want this 'known' until late Wednesday / early Thursday

Misdirection:
> Ghislaine "found" near Tel Aviv Boston!
Except no actual photos of her there

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 15 2019 14:06 utc | 513

ADKC | 508 "Are the Guards being framed?"

Are you getting enough sleep?

--

Jackrabbit | 506 "If the guards readily admitted to not checking in on Epstein, why would they have doctored the log book?"

How about: because they always do? How about: because that’s the way it works? Take it easy on the nightshift. The prisoners get to have a full night’s rest without disruptions and the guards get some shut-eye, too. But, because the rules say it has to be otherwise, the log book is filled out accordingly. Everybody can guess, but nobody really minds. Are you going to tell me that this distinct possibility has not crossed your mind?

--

jared | 511 “Clearly the guards were told it would be better if they went somewhere else for a nap and they won't know exactly who it was that advised them.”

Yes, clearly. Except for, well, not clearly at all. Jesus Maria. So the guards were told – by whom now? Oh, I see, they don’t know. Because the mysterious giver of orders presumably was dressed like Batman. But you would know, wouldn’t you? Or are the guards in it, as well? Have they been trained and pre-positioned for just such a scenario? No small feat to have it all fall into place – Epstein jailed in the unit which “they” control. The 2 agent-guards on duty together during that specific night. Or do “they” control all the floors and all the guards, all of the time? Can you elaborate, please?

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 15 2019 14:09 utc | 514

@ Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 15 2019 14:09 utc | 515

"... dressed like Batman". Well this does seem like something of a theatrical joke - on the public.
However, I would imagine not so much like Batman but more like Rubio doing his homage to Juan Guaido (i.e. the hoody).
Point is, it would not work if guards new who told them to be elsewhere.
When you life depends on not seeing something, you don't see it.
Somewhat apart from that, prison guards are generally large, lazy, not especially bright and unionized (FYI).

Also OT but infuriating:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-15/trump-urges-israel-not-allow-disgrace-reps-omar-tlaib-visit

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 14:26 utc | 515

This guy is pretty straight-up (PCR):
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/52090.htm

I think his point about triggering conflicting theories to muddy waters is on target.

Also likely we will never know what happened, but we do know who did it.

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 15:07 utc | 516

I can't imagine BE would keep an incriminating "insurance" stash of info in his own residence. More like in a safe-deposit box somewhere offshore, and Maxwell/Mossad/someone unlikely such has a key, or there is a kelky to the safe-deposit box where the real key is . . .
Something like that. Not so dumb as to stash in a file cabinet in a Manhattan or Caribbean mansion.

Furthermore the info is probably digitized and kept on DVDs or thumb drives or some such. Also maybe encrypted and the person son who holds the key knows the encryption code. That is, if BE was a profi!

Posted by: Really?? | Aug 15 2019 15:53 utc | 517

epstein was a mossad agent.duh.

Posted by: dahoit | Aug 15 2019 16:13 utc | 518

jared | 516

“more like Rubio doing his homage to Juan Guaido (i.e. the hoody)”
That is stuff for nightmares!

“Somewhat apart from that, prison guards are generally large, lazy, not especially bright and unionized (FYI).”
I agree with you there. I was shocked to see this photo: https://www.bop.gov/resources/news/20190723_recruitment_incentive_location_update.jsp
Gosh, so those are the people they take pride in, federal employees…, is what I thought to myself.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Aug 15 2019 16:15 utc | 519

@520 That looks like a fairly representative cross section of the American workforce. What were you expecting? Brad Pitt?

Posted by: dh | Aug 15 2019 16:31 utc | 520

"Maxwell is the daughter of disgraced publishing tycoon Robert Maxwell - who named the superyacht he died on after her. Following his death, it was revealed that Maxwell had pilfered 350 million pounds ($600 million) from the pension funds of Mirror Group Newspapers....At 29, Ghislaine was left with an 80,000 pound annual stipend from her trust fund - which would hardly sustain the lifestyle she had grown accustomed to, providing the perfect opportunity to attach herself to Epstein." https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-15/tech-ceo-denies-epsteins-alleged-madam-living-his-oceanfront-mansion "The discussion featured Scott Borgerson, chief executive officer of CargoMetrics and cofounder of the Arctic Circle, and Ghislaine Maxwell, founder of the TerraMar Project." [from Council on Foreign Relations Global Governance Update, August 2014] https://www.cfr.org/about/newsletters/archive/newsletter/n2100
I believe the popular expression was "follow the money." CFR controls everything, a Coast Guard LTC gets involved with them and massive investments land on his doorstep, albeit he had no financial experience or track record.

Posted by: Bruce | Aug 15 2019 16:53 utc | 521

OT -
People, I know there are some here who know some stuff.
Please help me, I am truly baffled.

This video from rt.com of NATO pilot harrassing plane of russian defense minister:
https://www.rt.com/news/466399-russian-minister-plane-f18/

I cannot understand how russian escort would allow that to happen.
There appears to be a surprising amount of trust, as if it is all in fun.
What would explain such casual protect of defense minister.

This would appear to be extreme failure on part of russian pilots.
Or what do I not understand?

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 17:13 utc | 522

Neck broken in 2 places is what's been leaked about the medical report on Epstein's death.

Having been in jail, I can speak to the possibility of committing suicide in such a manner--it's essentially impossible. While you might be able to fashion a noose from your sheet, blanket or jumpsuit, there's nothing from which to hang yourself from so your body weight could break your neck in 2 places and sever your spinal cord thus causing death. Sure, you could run as fast as you can in the 6-8 steps available and crash your head into the wall hoping to break your neck that way, but there were no signs of such trauma on his head. You might also try to bash your head in on the sink/toilet fixture, or jump off your table to slam your head into the floor. The point being, you must work very, very hard to kill yourself in jail. Also from my experience and from testimony of an inmate at that facility, it's not just hard to break-out, it's also very difficult to get into such a facility given all the remotely controlled doors you need to pass through, and the video--where the hell are the CTV videos?!?!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 17:34 utc | 523

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 17:34 utc | 524

And what is your take on the possibility that he was not killed, but was taken from jail?
I am coming to the opinion that this would make some sense:
- maybe they wish to interrogate him offsite, by special rules
- maybe he has info stashed and they need to release him to prevent release of info

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 17:39 utc | 524

jared @525--

IMO, it makes no sense for the DoJ to do so given the rules it must abide by so a mistrial cannot become a possibility. For the CIA, that would be another matter altogether. If he was taken from jail, I doubt it would be for interrogation; rather, he'd get Kashoggied in private and fed to the fishes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 18:51 utc | 525

'I Can't Explain Any Of This Over The Phone': Epstein's Bodyguard Freaks Out, Demands Reporter Drop Story
"Are you sure you want to hear what I am going to think?
Yeah.
Somebody helped him to do that.
You think somebody helped him kill himself?
Yeah.
Okay. Why?
Listen, you know, that’s going a little too deep....
May I ask you one more question?
Go ahead.
Have you been talking to anyone in the government, the FBI? Have they come to you?
[Long pause] Um. Great talking to you. Seriously. We talk later."
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-15/i-cant-explain-any-over-phone-epsteins-bodyguard-freaks-out-demands-reporter-drop

Posted by: Bruce | Aug 15 2019 19:29 utc | 526

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 18:51 utc | 526

Certainly that makes some sense.
However, I think there may be competing interests.
I suspect maybe that Epstein was dusted-off for the purpose of diversion and entertainment into the next election.
Trump is desperate for something to distract from the failure that is his admin and from thier plans for further military/regime change endeavors.
however, others are not amused - so some wanted a drawn-out entertaining trial and others did not.
No doubt he was trying to negotiate a deal and saying he had information that could be useful.
I can't see it through.

Posted by: jared | Aug 15 2019 20:05 utc | 527

jared @528--

Recall that the request to reopen Epstein's case was made on 27 January 2017 by Dershowitz and Cernovich. Months later, other interested parties joined and the Miami Herald began its investigation. Also, forces on both Left and Right wanted Epstein for their own partisan reasons, plus there are the foreign interests, too. So, IMO, Trump had nothing to do with the revival of the Epstein case nor intended to use it as a distraction--as POTUS, Trump can engineer any number of distractions.

Two points: Why did Epstein return is crucial although we may never know the answer. Two, if he felt threatened in that jail--and after the first murder attempt he must have felt that way, unless he did indeed want to die--why wasn't any alarm raised by his lawyers?

In the sort of lock-up he was placed in, every cell is monitored by CTV, so where are the videos? The guards were caught falsifying the logs via videos, so we know they exist. And as I noted above, you can't go anywhere within any modern jail without being monitored and many doors can only be opened remotely.

That the coroner hasn't determined that actual cause of death two days after the autopsy serves to increase the odds he was murdered--witnesses reported screams as we're reminded by the news.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 21:53 utc | 528

karlof1 @529:

Two points...

Epstein's voluntary return and his lawyers arguing against suicide watch argue for an arranged escape. Why would Epstein return if he felt he was in any real jeopardy? He had plenty of time to plan for an escape AND he had powerfule friends that might help AND experience hiding money.

And why would Epstein want to be off suicide watch if he felt his life was in danger?

The guards were caught falsifying the logs ...

Do we know this with any certainty? And if records were falsified, was it both guards, or just one?

The press was reporting days ago that the guards admitted to not following procedures. That reporting was in support of the "suicide" story. Now we are told that the guards changed the log books - but why would they illegally alter the log books if they were willing to admit to not following procedures?

Also, who was the guard that was added at the last minute due to personnel shortages? Why are the press so uninterested in the new guy that was conveniently assign to guard Epstein at a critical time?

That the coroner hasn't determined that actual cause of death two days after the autopsy serves to increase the odds he was murdered

As long as the dead body that the coroner examined is actually Epstein.

ID of the body was done by Epstein's brother - who stands inherti hundreds of millions of dollars from Epstein's estate (not accounting for victim civil suits) and would also likely be incline to lie about an ID if it meant that his brother could escape.

Why haven't they ID'd the body with DNA? Why not let the victim's examine/ID the body? It would be in the public interest to do so. And might bring closure to the victims.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 0:02 utc | 529

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 15 2019 21:53 utc | 529

It's like a game of Clue - everybody wanted this guy dead.
But somebody wanted to use him as threat/diversion - much like had been done with Russiagate.
Dershowitz/Trump would be prime suspect for that part - they did not want him dead.
If I understand from you roughly how it works, he was in posession of DOJ. If DOJ did not want him harmed, he would not be harmed. Likely he was in as protective custody. But somebody in DOJ was not on-board with plan it would seem - if that is the senario.
Also I would think that CIA/FBI/MIA/MOSSAD generally collaborate, no?
Probably it is the FBI that stood to suffer most reputational damage from Epstein.
I imagine CIA would not really care much.
So Trump was trying to play some dirty pool and FBI beat him to it - whether dead or alive.

Posted by: jared | Aug 16 2019 0:35 utc | 530

[Hmm seems I'm making myself comfortable in "barely alive" threads and comments appearing after they've been resting in the spam filter and anywhere else no one is likely to read whatever I write :D cozy and snug, I'm almost tempted to make a cup of cocoa but I'll grab an ice cream instead XD]

I haven't commented and wasn't planning to so I'll start by pointing out that my own bias is towards/in favor of Jackrabbits take on things although I think we're looking at a PSYOPS or plain distraction.

Addressing karlof1's comment (and I'm not sure I'm able to communicate all of this clearly, and it's not meant to be formal):

- Indeed you make an very good point about Trump and if he wants to cause a distraction he only has to use Twitter and make up a word like covfefe and he will have loud people braying for blood (for the most part his). This despite all the other things he could also do. In addition for all his grandstanding against this or that and politicians and opponents he does a lot of tip-toeing around (I guess he thinks this is his "deal-making"?) and doesn't seem to go after anyone with any gusto.

- Point 1: the return requires motivation, the motivation requires some kind of victory condition or gain. For both him and whoever is behind him. Either clearing his name in court or getting off lightly like previously would satisfy the requirements of a victory condition, "dying" to escape and obfuscate is better and also satisfies the requirements of a victory condition.

If it was me I'd gladly choose "death" and increased freedom without the pubic baggage and I can easily imagine that for whoever is behind him this has additional benefits of both reward and accomplishment well worth it. I can not imagine that they're at all concerned about "an uproar against pablum" (the MSM is easily replaced if they would want to) or increased disillusion and distrust in any direction or a wealth of "conspiracy theories". They likely thrive on it.

- Point 2: thinking can create a trap which I guess one could name "labyrinth alley" as opposed to a blind alley. In a blind alley there's not much choice except to head back the way one came which in practice as far as thinking is concerned signifies that one has found an "impossibility" or (cognitive, rational, logic, or similar) error of some kind and have to discard at least the last step one took. Blind alleys are very clear cut.

However in "labyrinth alley" this doesn't happen, instead there is a plethora of further branches and choices creating a labyrinth leading off from the alley one is in. It looks pretty much like any other place one could be figuratively while thinking despite the fact that one by being in a labyrinth alley has made any one of exactly the same types of mistakes as leads into a blind alley.

I think the most usual way of ending up in a labyrinth alley and further likely getting trapped in a nonsense labyrinth beyond it is to not only make assumptions (one often has to) but to have built upon them until they break.

If one is lucky (and I think this is one such case) this breakdown in assumption happens so quickly as to leave a chance for anyone to recognize that one has ended up in or gone through at least one such labyrinth alley.

The solution is to start discarding assumptions as flawed in some way and in this case it seems to me that doing so strengthens the questions and thoughts in point 1 because the answers can render any validity concerning the assumptions irrelevant.

As for the rest:

- Going further there should be heaps of CCTV or other surveillance data for the entire prison. Not only a single cell but all cells and other places, gates and so forth, entry points, driveways, inside and outside walls. Hardly any or none have been released for scrutiny? Laughable, they're not even trying so they want people to raise a stink. That they want it doesn't mean people shouldn't do it but does mean that everyone should be on the lookout for how it is going to be used to some advantage.

- This betrays that whoever is or was in control of this has planned several steps ahead. Most likely they've gamed it to a sufficient "completion" with multiple different failures of the initial plan (they don't care what most likely only a few people will be thinking in the years ahead). That sounds like a larger job than it is and they've had many years or decades to tweak or perfect any plan for such a contingency.

- A long and "thorough" examination of a dead body opens up so many possibilities both for distraction, narrative control, and deception. It's a great way to let the public stew in their own noise, to let them crystallize into factions and to create front lines of disagreement ready for ease of manipulation. It gives "whoever" the chance to identify popular voices and "faces" of interest and perhaps also the chance to redistribute legitimacy from any such onto any "rebel politician" maverick.

Autumn is the time for harvest after all :(

It's all just another Skripal-Kashoggi-etc. (and who knows how many names in history could be added) drama. To me (and I welcome being wrong about this) it won't be particularly interesting unless the official government narrative becomes that they were wrong and he's alive somewhere.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 16 2019 1:12 utc | 531

Ghislaine/Mossad taunts the world
"In and Out" Pun Suggests FBI/CIA are Fools, Complicit, or Worse

It's very difficult for me to believe Ghislane's appearance at an "In and Out" Burger joint is random.

Even the book she was said to be reading seems pre-planned (who reads a serious book at a burger joint?)

The best I can make of this is that Ghislaine is trolling the CIA. As strange as that may seem. "In and Out" only encourages speculation that Epstein was helped to escape - at a time that CIA/FBI are trying to avoid such speculation. And that makes Ghislaine's CIA heros book a sarcastic statement.

Why would Ghislaine send such a message? Does she feel wronged by the CIA? Does Mossad share that feeling? Is CIA holding Epstein? Are they seeking to exchange Epstein for all the blackmail material that Mossad holds?

This is a new wrinkle in a saga that is already very wierd. I wonder if Ghislaine is in LA to negotiate a book deal or movie rights. LOL.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 1:43 utc | 532

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 1:43 utc | 533

That is next level messaging there, even the book title :The Book of Honor : The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives

Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 1:57 utc | 533

Attempt at a Better Reading of Ghislaine's message

We can't rule out that there's no meaning to Ghislaine's appearance. It could just be the happenstance that's portrayed to be. But as I explained in my last comment, it seems foolish to think so. Ghislaine has been very disciplined prior to this and it seems strange that she would read a serious book at a burger place.

So I proceed with an analysis that is based on her desire to send a message.

And the first thing that stands out is that her interest in the CIA Heros book seems to be breaking protocol as it seems to implicitly confirm that she and/or Epstein were intelligence operatives. What could be so important for her to be so undisciplined?

My speculations, from most likely to least likely:

1. Stiff-arming Barr and/or Swan Song

The ‘message’ may be a reply to AG Barr who has vowed that associates of Epstein should not rest easy – they will be prosecuted. Reading the CIA Heros book might send the message: you’ll never take me alive! And the “In and Out” Burger location might suggest that she can relocate very quickly. Indeed, the day before she was said to be outside Boston, and now she is found at a burger place in LA!

For cynics, this may be a set-up for her conveniently mysterious death - like that of her father and Epstein.

Ghislaine is said to have said "I guess I won't be coming here again" after her identity was discovered. This self-referential statement (if we are assuming the intent to send a message) somewhat supports the view that the appearance is about herself, not Epstein.

=
2. Explainer: Epstein's Unacceptable Imprisonment

Delving into the nature of the "In and Out" moniker leads to another interesting interpretation.

Is it possible that "In and Out" refers to a deal cut with CIA for Epstein’s return to USA? (as we've suspected) Did CIA promise that Epstein would get bail if he returned and maybe also that the charges would eventually be dismissed because the 2008 DPA would be upheld?

If that's the case then the CIA Heros book becomes a sarcastic comment on the betrayal of the "In and Out" promise AS WELL AS a statement that Mossad considers Epstein to be a covert 'hero' like the ones in the CIA Heros book.

Although the covert operatives described in the book are dead, if Mossad considers Epstein to be a hero who was unjustly imprisoned then perhaps they felt justified in helping him to escape? While Epstein's death might've been faked, the 'public fact' of Epstein's death would have to be maintained by those who know this secret. Epstein would have to live out his life with a new identity and a much less glamours lifestyle.

Importantly, Ghislaine's appearance comes as the "suicide" story is changing to a murder story. And the autopsy isn't done yet! As a murder story, someone has to be fingered. And prehaps the body is not released for burial/cremation as quickly as planned (which might create risks if the body has been switched)

Ghislaine's "message" to CIA would then be translated as:

We cherish our heros as much as you cherish yours. You broke your promise, now you clean up the mess (the "mess" being that nobody buys the "suicide" claim.)

=
3. Tribute to Epstein

She may simply be making a tribute to her colleague Epstein. The CIA Heros book is about covert operatives who have lived and died in service to their country. Ghislaine is clearly still alive so it may not easily apply to her but it does apply to Epstein (if you believe he's dead). In this interpretation, the “In and Out” location is not really relevant.

This view assumes that Ghislaine's 'message' is an emotional response to Epstein's demise. But its the weakest interpretation because Ghislaine seems to be very disciplined (she helped run a covert op and disappeared for 2 years) and the implied loss of a 'hero' operative embarrasses CIA or Mossad (take your pick).

<> <> <> <> <>

Then there's the "she wouldn't be reading THAT book if she were an agent" angle. The above senarios pretty much assume that she is an agent (not very interesting otherwise) and that the 'message' she's sending will be understood by other agents/officials (or the public, in hindsight).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 5:45 utc | 534

Same message was sent by the person who had the flags lowered at the Virgin (sic) Islands resort. Maxwell probably feels like a dead man walking. Somewhere between her dad and Lady Di.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/american-flags-jeffrey-epstein-s-private-islands-lowered-half-staff-n1042556

I found that really disgusting. So the US has no problem with this representation of a criminal as one of their heroes or civil servants? There is no law enforcement in the US Virgin Islands and anyone who has money can do whatever he wants on his property? Why not give him a mini-state funeral when they are at it?

Posted by: Mina | Aug 16 2019 5:57 utc | 535

Follow-up @535

To avoid unnecessary discussions, I writing to say that I think interpretation #1 is by far the best one.

We are likely to see friends and family express concern for Ghislaine's well-being in the days ahead.

Interpretation #2 has some serious flaws: 1) Communication between agencies wouldn't be done like this, even if there is anger/disappointment; 2) Whatever happened to Epstein was almost certainly planned and agreed to in advance, and CIA-Mossad probably have a strong enough relationship that some patience would be afforded if required.

I was never very happy with Interpretation #3. I probably shouldn't have included it.

Thanks for reading. Any comments are appreciated.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 6:47 utc | 536

@537 ... @Amazon ... for what it's worth (& not much, imo).

G. Maxwell
5.0 out of 5 stars
A comforting read after a personal tragedy
August 15, 2019
Format: Kindle Edition
A good friend of mine died recently under very tragic circumstances. Some of us saw it coming for quite a while but it was still a huge shock when it finally happened. I picked up this book at the advice of a friend and absolutely couldn't put it down. I'd read it walking the dog, getting fast food, or even just lounging around the house. It helped me realized that my friend really believed in something, and that giving your life for the CIA, NSA, FBI, Mossad, or other intelligence agency is truly a higher calling and not something to mourn. A wholehearted recommendation.
52 people found this helpful

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Honor-Secret-Deaths-Operatives/dp/0385495412

I heard that the truth slipped out recently in Texas ...

'I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole. It’s – it was like – we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment' - Pompeo

Secretary Pompeo participates in a Q&A discussion at Texas A&M University as part of the Wiley Lecture Series, in College Station, Texas on April 15, 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfrhATD4nM0

Posted by: imo | Aug 16 2019 7:11 utc | 537

Posted by: imo | Aug 16 2019 7:11 utc | 538
That review almost seems like a prank, some comments to it are funny.

Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 15:28 utc | 538

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 5:45 utc | 535

That first image of her in the NY Post story seems like she is posing for it and even the second shot with her glasses on doesn't seem like she is shying away from the camera. It is like a "yeah it's really me bitches, I'm here" facial expression, but who knows?

Your second hypothesis might have some legs.

Posted by: O | Aug 16 2019 15:42 utc | 539

@538 Very amusing review. Amazing that anyone would take it seriously.

Posted by: dh | Aug 16 2019 15:53 utc | 540

Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 16 2019 1:12 utc | 532--

Thanks for your effort at composing that exercise. From my perspective, Epstein is a footnote amidst the current stream of history that's being constructed dealing with ongoing geopolitical and geoeconomic happenings. The racket he was involved in points to the underlying sordid nature of what Lords have done for centuries as I wrote earlier. My discovery of the term Pleonexia that I wrote on yesterday in the week in review works well to describe the morass this debauchery resides within and the motives involved. At best, Epstein provides a fireworks display that spells Systemic Corruption related to the deep, worm-filled rot of the Outlaw US Empire's entire political Establishment--a shipping container filled with dead skunks would smell better.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 16 2019 16:03 utc | 541

karlof1 @542:

Epstein is a footnote

Much more than a footnote.

It's rare that we get such a vivid glimpse into how our society is manipulated and controlled.

underlying sordid nature of what Lords have done for centuries

Nothing to see here?

You're comment is aligned with MSM pressitutes that are focusing attention on Epstein as a pervert so as to avoid the nature of the operation he was running.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 16 2019 16:52 utc | 542

@all - There is a new thread for discussing the Epstein issue.

Posted by: b | Aug 16 2019 17:00 utc | 543

Epstein, if he is a footnote, is a footnote that could potentially bring the whole system crashing down.

Posted by: lysias | Aug 16 2019 19:33 utc | 544

lysias @545--

If you've followed my writings on Epstein, you'll recall that I attributed his rise to the insane level of corruption that existed at the time, which has only escalated since--he was born from and is a creature of it. Otherwise, his celebrity would never have occurred, nor would Trump's, Clinton's and a host of others. You'll recall the adage about power and what it leads to if not tightly controlled and closely overseen--a truism the nation's founders warned about on numerous occasions and is the one constant thread throughout The Federalist Papers. Although I doubt it, it appears I'm the only one in this discussion to make such a distinction. I alluded to the fact that Trump's DoJ wants the status quo to continue because it agreed to the motion by Epstein to keep his financial records sealed--that was James Comey's daughter acting for the DoJ. The money trail's the hardest one to erase. IMO, that's where the corruption needing to be exposed lies. Such an exposure might prove to be the first of a series of dominoes to fall that would aid in uncovering a portion of the mass of corruption required to "bring the whole system crashing down" in the most public of manners finally replacing the Scopes Monkey Trial, OJ and Watergate as the most celebrated of US Trials and investigations. Alas! creatures of the Swamp are in charge of the investigation, thus my reasoning it will remain a footnote, if that. I'd like to be surprised and see it all exposed. But I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 16 2019 20:16 utc | 545

My attempts to masturbate to this thread were repeatedly foiled. Coincidence? Hardly. Zionists, I imagine—or has the Lord begun rationing hard ons?

Posted by: Cobden Mayhew | Aug 17 2019 16:50 utc | 546

A look at this case in perspective with the genre of these crimes and abuses. A few Elementary examples of the genre for scale and context;
Jimmy Savile. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jimmy-savile-sex-abuse-dead-bodies_n_5532728?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaHVmZnBvc3QuY29tL3RvcGljL2ppbW15LXNhdmlsZQ
Marc Dutroux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux
similarities of the genre, government, police, intelligence services help or intentional negligence, cover ups? public figures, politicians. more examples.
diplomatic immunity for child porn trafficking, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/23/carlo-alberto-capella-vatican-jails-italian-priest-child-porn/728147002/
and for scale of the charity crimes, stolen babies.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/world/europe/spain-stolen-babies-ines-madrigal.html
Thanks for the thread and the website. Yet this genre of crimes/abuses should easily earn a thread to collect, investigate and research the subject matters scope and history.
Maxwell looks like another shining example government helping the criminals.

Posted by: DR3D9 | Aug 20 2019 22:32 utc | 547

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