Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 31, 2019

Violent 'Color Revolution' In Hong Kong Fails Despite Strong NYT Support

When the U.S. instigates its so called 'color revolutions', the transatlantic main stream media are usually supportive. But the support is rarely as extreme as the extraordinary one the New York Times gives to the rioters in Hong Kong.

For the timeline we check with Wikipedia on the 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests:

Demonstrations against the bill first occurred in March and April, but greatly expanded in scale and intensity beginning in June. At least 240,000 people (up to one million according to organisers) marched in protest of the bill on 9 June.
...
Chief Executive Carrie Lam suspended the extradition bill on 15 June and further declared it to be "dead" on 9 July.

Shortly before the first large demonstrations against a proposed amendment to an exiting extradition bill, the New York Times gave space to one (in)famous 'political activist' from Hong Kong. On June 4 one Ray Wong Toi-yeung wrote on the Times opinion pages:

When the tanks rolled into Tiananmen Square in Beijing on June 4, 1989, many Hong Kongers watched in horror on their TVs. A few days before, one million of them had marched in solidarity with the rebellious Chinese gathered in the square to ask for more liberalism and democracy from the Chinese authorities. Thirty years on, it is Hong Kong that is fighting for democratic values — for its very political survival, actually — against another onslaught by the same Communist government in Beijing.

Wong, who now lives in Germany, was a leader of the 2014 Umbrella movement, also known as the (NED Financed) Hong Kong Riots. He was since with several other anti-mainland organizations in Hong Kong. In 2016 he was seen in secret meetings with U.S. consulate staff.

Other Hong Kong protest organizers and supporters were given op-ed space in the Times on June 10, June 15, June 17 and June 28. Supportive editorials were published on June 10, June 13 and June 17.

On June 30 an op-ed by one Fred Chan Ho-fai (later updated) attempted to justify the rioters violence:

An important idea that has been circulating in online forums is now firmly planted in my mind. It is called the Marginal Violence Theory (暴力邊緣論), and it holds that protesters should not actively use or advocate violence, but instead use the most aggressive nonviolent actions possible to push the police and the government to their limits.

This is what some protesters have been doing today, July 1, on the anniversary of the handover of Hong Kong to China from Britain in 1997. After a ceremony marking the anniversary, a group of protesters have stormed the Legislative Council’s building. Though they have damaged property, they are not seeking to harm anyone.

Such actions are a way to make noise and gain attention. And if they prompt the police to respond with unnecessary force, as happened on June 12, then the public will feel disapproval and disgust for the authorities. The protesters should thoughtfully escalate nonviolence, maybe even resort to mild force, to push the government to the edge. That was the goal of many people who surrounded and barricaded police headquarters for hours on June 21.

Provoking violent police reactions is the declared aim of the rioters.

More Hong Kong op-eds in the NYT followed on July 1, July 2 and July 3. A fourth supporting editorial was published on July 4. More op-eds followed on July 5, July 8 and July 12.

After an extraordinary run of 16 opinion pieces on the issue in just 38 days, the NYT opinion pages went suddenly quiet on Hong Kong. Who told the editors to stop?

Anyway, it does not mean the New York Times stopped supporting the anti-government riots. Witness today's news piece that is not only slanted against Hong Kong's government and police, but is also clearly lying:

Hundreds of protesters surrounded a police station in Hong Kong on Tuesday, some scuffling with officers, after the authorities said they had charged dozens of people with rioting over clashes with the police days earlier.

The rioting charges were a distinct escalation in the government’s response to protests that have shaken Hong Kong for weeks.

There were "clashes with the police" during unapproved demonstration. Taking part in these is not a sin in my book - been there, done that. But if one does take part in riots one should be ready to accept the consequences. Some violent people were caught. The government will punish them. Those are the universal rules of the game. So why is it seen as a "distinct escalation" when the Hong Kong government charges some rioters?

The charges will most likely add to the public anger. The government said Tuesday evening that 44 people who were arrested Sunday night had been accused of rioting. In addition, a 33-year-old man would also be charged with assaulting a police officer, and a 24-year-old man was charged with possession of offensive weapons.
...
As news of the charges spread, hundreds of people dressed in black, the color of the protest movement, gathered around Kwai Chung Police Station, where the suspects were being held. The police told the crowds to disperse and used pepper spray against some demonstrators.

The writer seems to believe in the 'marginal violence theory'. He thinks that the charges will increase the rioters support. He will be disappointed. Most people in Hong Kong despise attacks on policemen and rioting that disturbs their businesses and daily life.

BTW - those who still doubt that the incidents in Hong Kong are an attempt of a U.S. instigated 'color revolution' should reread the last paragraph: "people dressed in black, the color of the protest movement".

Now comes a paragraph in which the NYT writer is outright lying:

Around 11 p.m., a small number of officers came out of the station to confront protesters, including one police officer holding a shotgun that he pointed at some of those gathered, but he did not fire. The gun did not have the distinct orange color of those the police have been using to fire rubber bullets, raising fears they were deploying more lethal weapons.

The Times uses this photo to illustrate the scene:


bigger

That looks like an aggressive cop.

However, the picture and the text in the Times are highly misleading. Below are two videos posted by Stella Lee of HK News. They show that the mob violently attacked two lone policemen, threw stuff at them, and even pulled one of them to the ground and trampled on him. Only when one of the policemen lifts his beanbag shotgun, do the attackers retreat.

Stella Lee @StellaLeeHKnews - 18:34 UTC · Jul 30, 2019

An video circulated online shows a police officer pointing his gun at the protesters after he was beaten by them near Kwai Chung police station. #antiELAB

Stella Lee later posted another video that shows a small group of policemen, under constant attack, retreat from the scene.

Stella Lee @StellaLeeHKnews - 19:52 UTC · Jul 30, 2019

Protesters threw bottles and umbrellas at police officers deployed to locate a man fainted near Kwai Fong MTR station. The officers responded by firing pepper spray at them. #ExtraditionBill

So who is the aggressor here?

The South China Morning Post notes:

A policeman pointed a shotgun at a protesting crowd on Tuesday night in fear for his life, after he was surrounded and had his helmet snatched, the force has said.

The sergeant aimed the weapon, loaded with beanbag rounds, during clashes in which 23 other officers were assaulted and splashed with corrosive liquid, it added.
...
It said that at 9.30pm, when two police vehicles left the station, protesters threw corrosive liquid at officers nearby.

An hour later, some officers were sent to Kwai Fong MTR station, where there was a report of an assault. As they returned to the station, the statement read, “two officers were surrounded by a big group of radical protesters, who hurled objects and launched attacks”.

“One of them was assaulted by many people. In order to protect his life and personal safety, he raised a long gun loaded with beanbag rounds as a caution,” it continued. “The officer also had his helmet snatched.”
...
The force said 24 officers were assaulted or had corrosives thrown at them in the ensuing fracas, with five sent to hospital.

The videos support the police description of the incident. The NYT report is clearly wrong.

The policemen who escaped lynching was immediately doxed. His family will need protection:

Suspected personal details of the officer, and a supposed photo of his family, appeared on social media hours after images of him pointing the gun were widely circulated.

That the protesters are not peaceful daisies is obvious. This can also be seen in these photos of previous fights with the police.

The SCMP also live blogged the riots on Sunday:

Hong Kong police and protesters clashed again on Sunday night in what has become a regular scene in Hong Kong.

Police made at least a dozen arrests while tear gas was fired at various locations on Hong Kong Island. Protesters marched unauthorised for the second night running, after an illegal demonstration ended in bloody clashes at Yuen Long MTR station on Saturday

The violence continued until the protesters dispersed at midnight ...

Some of the pictures in the live blog show the projectiles the protesters used against the police:

11:31PM - More protesters join last stand on Jubilee Street

About 100 protesters have come from the Wan Chai direction to take up positions at a road block on Jubilee Street again. The area is where police have pushed back demonstrators from the liaison office. On a nearby footbridge, bricks and bamboo sticks cut from building scaffolding are seen.


bigger

The bricks and bamboo sticks laid ready to be hailed down on policemen. The use of such violence against them, as promoted on June 30 on the op-ed pages of the Times, seems to have some effect. At its end today's NYT piece notes that it encourages them to do their job:

The police were noticeably more aggressive about grabbing protesters and had detained at least 49 by Monday morning. They included 32 men and 17 women, aged 16 to 41. Two were temporarily released, while another two were granted bail pending further investigation, the authorities said. Those charged were expected to appear in court Wednesday morning.

The government of Hong Kong played the issue well. It removed, for now, the amendment that was used as pretext to launch the 'regime change' demonstrations. The participation in them immediately began to shrink. The government then turned the 'marginal violence theory' against the protesters. It let the core demonstrators, who are mostly students from movements the U.S. secretly supports, escalate the violence. While the police held back from extreme measures, the rioters increased their level of force. Even those Hong Kong media that supported the demonstrations, had to take note of that. Now the fruits are ripe. The government can pick up the leaders of the riots and put them into jail. Everyone but the NYT acknowledges that it is the legal and right thing to do. It will not cause a wider public to protest against it.

The U.S. and the NYT lost their second attempt to turn Hong Kong against mainland China. Three to five years from now they will try again. It will again be in vain.

Posted by b on July 31, 2019 at 18:50 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Same ole same ole. The Empire keeps playing the same old cards long after they have failed to work any more, as in the fool's game they are playing in Venezuela - which now serves only to discredit them in the eyes of world public opinion.

Posted by: mike k | Jul 31 2019 19:25 utc | 1

As an American, I'm so sick and tired of watching my tax dollars wasted. If the CIA can't pull off a simple "color" revolution in Hong Kong, then we need to defund them and use those funds else where. Meanwhile, someone should check out the sudden appearance of Chinese nationals in the homeless camps in LA, San Francisco, and other major cities on the west coast.

Posted by: Barbarossa | Jul 31 2019 19:33 utc | 2

Is it a part of the problem that freewheeling Hong Kong does not have any sensible laws requiring, at a minimum, that foreign political money be properly declared and registered? It's one of those things which the US of course has for itself (with, as always, an Israeli exemption), but which causes it to scream "Oppression, oppression!" when other countries protect themselves likewise.

Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Jul 31 2019 19:39 utc | 3

The protesters should thoughtfully escalate nonviolence, maybe even resort to mild force, to push the government to the edge.

I absolutely agree to that - in the US.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Jul 31 2019 19:44 utc | 4

Which way does the weather vane point? Perhaps it's a vain notion to expect rain to come or for the Outlaw US Empire to cease meddling in the politics of nations it deems rivals. Excellent evidence of the direct tie between NY Times and other media to Imperialism Agencies. Global Times article resonates with b's reporting, and we learn that the "corrosive liquid" was an "acid" of some sort, which proves premeditation to commit violent acts. I can think of a vast assortment of things on which to spend the monies wasted promoting yet another failed color revolution.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 31 2019 19:56 utc | 5

More Hong Kong op-eds in the NYT followed on July 1, July 2 and July 3. A fourth supporting editorial was published on July 4. More op-eds followed on July 5, July 8 and July 12.

In Brazil, journalists call this technique "echo": when you repeat the same news (or opinion) many times, through consecutive days -- frequently months or even years -- ir order to make the masses to believe 1) the piece of news is an absolute, unquestionable truth (socially accepted truth, part of the "pop culture") and 2) believe this piece of news is of paramount importance to the public interest. It is one of the fundamental principles of Western journalism and is taught in almost all of its decent journalism undergraduate courses.

The "echo" is more important than the content of the news itself, and it is more credible the more irregularly it "resonates" through the arrow of time (e.g. run the piece for three consecutive days, then make a 10-day pause, then re-run the piece for 15 days, then a 3-day pause), in order to give the illusion that the news is "organic" -- i.e. that investigative journalism is actually happening, and articles are coming out as evidence is gathered by the journalists. It is the most devastating semiotic weapon available to journalism in crafting the "public opinion": depending on the degree of monopoly of the mass media in the country, even more devastating than triangulation (when the main MSM vehicles synchronize, behind closed doors, their editorial lines in all available media -- internet, radio, tv and press).

A bombastic news is only bombastic when it is published and transmitted multiple times through multiple media throughout the arrow of time. That's also how the MSM can also cover for corrupt politicians and businessmen who get caught but are "friends" with the establishment (which invariably includes the MSM-complex): they publish the news only one time just by obligation and to keep its credibility at acceptable levels and then disappear with it. In this case, it is a "reverse echo".

A "reverse echo" is also very useful when trying to, e.g. demonize politicians of public figure of one specific cause, party or political spectrum, because it reinforces to the imbecilized public the perception that one side is much more nocive/corrupt than the other. The people, accustomed to the corruption of one politician or party the MSM doesn't like, when reading the once-in-a-blue-moon corruption cases of the politician or party the MSM (secretly) likes, will perceive an even stronger contrast between the two sides -- which, over time, results in a fabricated political-ideological polarization. The next time the MSM-backed party/politician is caught, the public already has the ingrained opinion this was a sporadic, isolated incident; and that it is fruit of an endemic malaisie (cultural) in the reverse case.

You can attest this phenomenon (of echo and reverse echo) if you compare the Hong Kong with Puerto Rico (where the governor was actually toppled).With Puerto Rico, there probably was the obligatory one op-ed in the NYT plus the two obligatory news and that was it.

Posted by: vk | Jul 31 2019 20:07 utc | 6

Speaking strictly for myself, I would much rather see the empire promoting failed color revolutions than successful ones.

I didn't need any additional proof that the New York Langley Times is knowingly part of the empire's color revolution machinery, but it sure is nice to see others piling up the evidence. Great article.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2019 20:08 utc | 7

Amazing how the NYT changes both their definitions and attitudes towards non-violent resistance. During any protests against the US Government, for example during the anti-WTO protests or the anti-war protests around the turn of the century, the NYT condemned any violence against objects quite strongly. The NYT gave full justification of attacking violent protesters any time a Starbucks had a window broken.

I do find this piece quite interesting, as an opinion leader is now promoting the attitudes of protesters who believe in maximum direct action to push the police and authorities to the limits. This is of course read by Americans. It is thus interesting that the NYT feels that America's 1% is quite safe from any protests that might be sparked should Americans get tired of government by the billionaires, of the billionaires and for the billionaires. Otherwise, they might be more cautious about promoting such messages among Americans.

Posted by: Sailor | Jul 31 2019 20:15 utc | 8

Remember, the American deep state and the Democratic party have been saying quite loudly that the American democracy was fatally subverted by a small Russian investment of at most one million dollars. Thus, when you hear of Americans spending far more than that to overthrow governments in other places, then American should be outraged at the government inefficiency it shows and just how wasteful they are with taxpayers dollars. If the greatest democracy ever in the history of the universe can be subverted by a million or so dollars, then surely the brilliant Americans with their tech geniuses can do it even cheaper than that

Posted by: Julian | Jul 31 2019 20:20 utc | 9

US. UK. most of the EU, Australia and Canada all have extradition treaties with HK. That is why Snowden had to get out of HK quickly. American whistleblowers aren't safe there. Straight murderers from Taiwan or mainland China are safe.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-china-hong-kong-extradition-pacts/

Posted by: Michael Droy | Jul 31 2019 20:20 utc | 10

Some various stories which support the basic premise of this post -

This is from an Asia Times report:

“Violent clashes broke out at various locations in Yuen Long as some protesters removed fences from the kerbside and used metal barriers to block roads. Some hurled bricks and hard objects at police officers and charged cordon lines,” a separate police statement read. Asia Times witnessed protesters engaging in those described actions."
https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/07/article/hong-kong-reaches-a-protest-point-of-no-return/

A video report from Sky News on the Sunday night protests showed a pile of uprooted bricks to be used as projectiles against the police, which the reporter described as a common feature at every protester blockade they had witnessed. Another common feature that night was the formation of tight rectangular street barricades manned by protesters using street signs and umbrellas as shields, behind which the projectiles were launched. Identical tactics in multiple locations is not consistent with improvised or spontaneous protests, which is how they are largely portrayed in western coverage.

The CBC published a report which described, without acknowledgment of such, the organizational structure of the protest movement:

“Harry is what’s known as a “rescuer”: an experienced protester with first aid training and a self-given responsibility to look out for others in risky situations…Beyond rescuers, some volunteers take care of supplies, everything from water to helmets. Others are in charge of recruitment for each protest…”
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/hong-kong-protests-china-revolution

Hong Kong opposition leaders met with senior US officials about the extradition bill weeks before protests began:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/hong-kong-opposition-and-trump-administration

Posted by: jayc | Jul 31 2019 20:29 utc | 11

I have no idea why the US (or anyone else anywhere) would ever think the US could succeed in HK no matter how much the US (or anyone else) interferes. Thus I doubt that is what has been going on no matter how much NYT space is used (and that sure was a lot) or what happens at any US embassy.

The end result as it stands right now is to the benefit of anyone who wants to discredit and sabotage the serious grievances of the HK population. The US might be handing a "gift" to those who are far too impatient in Beijing, perhaps the US government hopes it will be poisonous enough? I don't find that convincing either (luckily China distanced themselves from all of this).

The bigger picture is missing —completely absent— and I don't have it.

This does not look like a color revolution to me, any comparison with for example Ukraine would be completely off simply because HK couldn't be an independent nation even if they went to war with China (which they don't want): unwinnable, not what people are protesting about, and HK has always needed and relied on China even when the British were in power (without China HK would not exist at all) and these things aren't secret instead they're obvious.

Any tycoon stupid enough to go for something like what the Ukrainian oligarchs did would be obliterated along with family, company, and fortune in extremely short order. Maybe someone really was that stupid and convinced the US and that's what happens next?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 31 2019 20:30 utc | 12

SRB @12--

As I noted in a previous item on this topic, those rioting have produced no manifesto to justify their further actions once the extradition bill initially used as an excuse was withdrawn. Maybe the entire theatre is done just to keep b busy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 31 2019 20:43 utc | 13

I don't think a manifesto matters (does the Yellow Vests have a manifesto that's legit rather than representing some tiny faction?) and I don't think the HK politicians can claim ignorance of those living in "cupboard apartments" at extreme rents while working as dishwashers (not unique to HK but worse there) or all the people who would love to be able to buy a place to live and have a prospect for a steady future (normal expectations of people in any nation despite how rare it is all across the world nowadays).

The extreme prices and economic disparity and hardships for ordinary people as well as the poor in HK are neither new nor secret even though they're more extreme now than ever before. The politicians/administrators/government representatives know, they just don't care enough to actually do something about it.

The extradition bill is a bit of a red herring, nothing but a spark for people to vent their anger at everything wrong (both from Chinese and HK governments/administrations, both share some of the blame).

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 31 2019 21:25 utc | 14

Sunny Runny Burger @12 said "...HK couldn't be an independent nation even if they went to war with China."

How is that different from Ukraine and Russia? Ukraine has been circling the drain ever since the Soviet Union was dissolved, getting closer to the Ultimate Suck every year. They never had a chance to survive with their economy severed from Russia.

Perhaps you are making the mistake of assuming that the empire cares if Hong Kong survives the color revolution. HK being wealthy and happy is not the point of this operation. HK being a devastated wreck that saps China's vitality and is a source for CIA terror cells to attack China with is the point.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2019 21:25 utc | 15

Sunny Runny Burger @12

I should clarify that the point of the empire's HK color revolution is just to hurt China any way possible, even if the empire achieves nothing else from it. As with the Russians not wanting harm to come to Ukraine (despite what assholes Ukrainians have become lately), the Chinese mainlanders don't want harm to come to the people of HK. Having to watch their kindred peoples suffer self-destructive psychosis and not being able to do anything to help has been gut-wrenching for the Russian people, and if the empire's efforts in HK succeed then the people of China will get to experience the same distressing tragedy.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 31 2019 21:35 utc | 16

we learn that the "corrosive liquid" was an "acid" of some sort, which proves premeditation to commit violent acts..

@Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 31 2019 19:56 utc | 5

I fear that is premeditation to commit assasination...Acid can be deathly harmful...or defigurate and inhabilitate a person for life...

This has all the "colour" and odour of Maidan, same tacticts of attack of those then seen in Kiev central, seems a repetition with Chinese ( and not so, seeing that blonde in the HKFP photos )individuals....Morover they do not even try to hide it anymore waving the US flag in the middle of the military formation and asking the Us to intervene....White and in a bottle, milk, that we say around here. We do not need to see them along with US Consular personel, it is all too much clear.

After Maidan it was said that the rioters and battallions´ "volunteers" were trainning months before in Poland...
It would be great that a serious and real investigative journalist would discover where these "HongKongese" have been trainning....Common people when demonstrating do not dominate such military art...

Then, where all those helmets, uniforms, and gas masks have come from?
Do you remember the Maidan uniform, consisting mainly on T-shirts and jeans bermuda?

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 31 2019 21:43 utc | 17

To some degree I think SRB and WG are talking past each other. The two drivers of the protests - once the extradition bill was withdrawn - 1) the people's dissatisfaction with their conditions and 2) the CIA/DoS funded/abetted desire to create a mess for China are not mutually exclusive. In fact if the latter is smart they're playing into the former in order to make the protests even more violent and/or wide ranging.

Has any commentary been made here by b, linked to by b, or the same in comments as to the validity of SRB's assertion that the former is a primary driving factor in these continuing protests and that while there is obvious typical 'color revolution' facilitation by the U.S., that a significant portion of the protests is indeed due to legitimate grievances on the part of HK's poor and middle class and the unaffordability issues?

Posted by: KC | Jul 31 2019 21:43 utc | 18

Uniforms....and military tactics....

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 31 2019 22:26 utc | 19

Whatever legitimate concernes locals may have, some are being played by the West, and some are paid by the West.
At this point in modern history, it should be obvious to any sane government that they have to ban and outright outlaw NED, Soros foundations, USAid and similar organizations that are fronts for subversive hostile secretive actions from the USA. Not only should they be outlawed entirely, but entering the country should be strictly forbidden to anyone who ever worked, cooperated or met with them, the likes of the CFR or the Atlantic Council; and any national who does it should be considered a traitor and judged accordingly.
It's possibly a bit harsher than deserved, but extreme situations require extreme measures.
And when I say "any sane government", I don't mean Russia or Iran. I mean any government on the planet, including Canada and European ones. The USA are not their friends, never were and never will be, and sooner or later the US will turn their methods against them. Better be prepared. Then, when the rest of the world will see the light, the US goons will be unable to move and infiltrate, and will be safely quarantined.
What the world truly deserves is a reverse-Monroe doctrine: any US interference of any kind, any action from the US government outside America should be seen as a casus belli by the Old World.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 31 2019 22:34 utc | 20

@Clueless Joe - Exactly and all anyone in these countries needs to do to see such actions are watch how the American establishment including MSM treats its own people - as something even lower than consumers; as resources from which all sorts of things can be extracted including labor, data, money. "The Matrix" is currently not being run by AI, but it will be shortly, Coppertop.

Posted by: KC | Jul 31 2019 22:46 utc | 21

SRB @ 12:

"... This does not look like a color revolution to me, any comparison with for example Ukraine would be completely off simply because HK couldn't be an independent nation even if they went to war with China (which they don't want): unwinnable, not what people are protesting about, and HK has always needed and relied on China even when the British were in power (without China HK would not exist at all) and these things aren't secret instead they're obvious ..."

Even before 2014 Ukraine needed the Russian market more than the Russian market itself needed Ukraine. Since the Maidan Revolution, to use WG's metaphor @ 15, the flow around and into the drain just became faster.

The Maidan Revolution occurred in large part because at the end of November in 2013, the then President Viktor Yanukovych delayed signing the EU/Ukraine Association Agreement and requested more time to study its details and their implications, after Russia offered membership into its own Eurasian-based common market and associated financial arrangements, and alerted the Yanukovych government that there were technical aspects in the EU/Ukraine AA that Ukraine might find onerous to comply with BEFORE the country had any guarantee of EU membership: for example, among other things, the entire railway network would have had to be ripped up, all its entire rolling stock junked, and all its railway employees retrained and engineers reskilled to accept a new future network and rolling stock and maintenance equipment and stock compliant with EU standards with regard to the railway gauge. (Never mind that Finland and Spain and some others sailed into full EU membership in the past with different railway gauges; what applied during the time when they first became members is now forgotten EU history.)

In other words, the Maidan protesters themselves did not have a clear manifesto of what they actually wanted apart from becoming part of the fabled Schengen zone so they could all scoot into Europe as fast as they could and get jobs; and what they do seem to want (getting into the Schengen zone and onto their own personal paths to fame and riches) is looking more and more unwinnable as refugees from western Asia and migrants fleeing US and French interference in northern, western and central Africa want the same.

One might just as well say that Ukraine cannot exist without Russia and indeed the entire government in Kiev since February 2014 has been more obsessed with hating and provoking Russia, and using that excuse to demand more money and more arms (without offering much in return) to bolster its own crazed neo-Nazi project, micromanage its population and enrich its own stupid leaders who take the money and run overseas (first Arseny Yatseniuk and now apparently the ex-President Petro Poroshenko to avoid an anti-corruption probe).

Mainland Chinese and local HK tycoons equivalent to the dual-loyalist power elite in Ukraine do not need to be present as they already have safe homes in western Canada and investments elsewhere in the country and tax havens in the proverbial Caribbean. The youngest billionaire in HK, the 20-something Perenna Kei, can always nick off to Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean if political and economic instability in HK results in her accidentally dropping her emery board onto the floor while she is fixing her nails.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 31 2019 22:50 utc | 22

Trump Administration cuts off key Iranian diplomat by sanctioning him; thereby preventing any further negotiation on the nuclear deal - at least via standard procedures/channels.

Zarif Sanctioned re: NYT

Posted by: KC | Jul 31 2019 23:00 utc | 23

Bypass paywalls including NYT using this Firefox plugin:

I've used it and it works great in concert with the other plugin they recommend.

Posted by: KC | Jul 31 2019 23:01 utc | 24

The above plugin works, to simplify the explanation, by fooling paywalls into thinking your browser is Google's bot.

Posted by: KC | Jul 31 2019 23:02 utc | 25

The Extradition Bill was just the spark that finally ignited the powder keg.
Life in Hong Kong, for ordinary people, has become worse and worse in the last decade. The cost of living has soared. Property values have risen 300% and government no longer builds new subsidized public housing. The youth of Hong Kong cannot afford to buy a home, get married, and have a family. They see no future - and the pro Beijing government is walking hand in hand with the Tycoons . The Communists in Government are partnered with the Capitalists, and together they are bleeding the people dry, and destroying the fabric of their society. Exactly whats happening in the West and Putins Russia. Big Business owns half the legislature - there is no democratic suffrage, the whole place is simply set up to enrich a handful of super rich people in Hong King the Chinese party elite who stash their booty in HK. while the rest are left to rot.

One can not look past the numbers and assume this is just a typical color revolution. Sure, there likely is some US influence and some protest leaders are being paid off to prevent the real issues behind the protests from being addressed. But for the majority, their HK identity, freedom, and economic opportunity/ equality are the real issues. Many associate increased Democracy with improving conditions and expect China to honor their commitment for Hong Kong autonomy through 2047, a commitment that many Chinese leaders seem to be willing to break.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 31 2019 23:08 utc | 26

@B: One of the most valuable pieces you wrote in the last weeks. All laid out convincing, putting all pieces together while judging all sides and arguments.

To the anti paywall extension: For whose who dont know this: On the Github page you can request websites to be added if they are not already. Truly a great extension!

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Jul 31 2019 23:14 utc | 27

As I recall, some people in HK had no choice but to live in those cardboard apartments long before 1997; so, the extreme inequality long predates Transition. Indeed, such inequality was the hallmark of British Colonial Capitals and the Extractive Imperialism practiced. Working Class History recently aired a podcast on the 1967 HK riots associated with the Cultural Revolution. And there were other riots both before and after that one.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 31 2019 23:23 utc | 28

Color me unsurprised.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 31 2019 23:45 utc | 29

If this is a color revolution then with the blow back there will be hell to pay...

Garrison Law gives Hong Kong option of asking for PLA’s help to maintain public order

Posted by: dltravers | Aug 1 2019 0:06 utc | 30

I am always prepared to believe the worst when it comes to the CIA and the NYT, but could someone please provide actual evidence that the Hong Kong protests are fomented and supported by U.S. cutouts?

Posted by: Rob | Aug 1 2019 0:11 utc | 31

Excuse me, Pft @ 26, you write:

"...Exactly what's happening in the West and Putin's Russia..."

I take your point that similar pressures are occurring, but not only in the West and Russia but every nation on the planet. And to affix, as it seems you do, blame for this upon Putin as far as Russia is concerned, is grossly inaccurate.

If, as we must, we trace these occurrences to their rightful black hole - that can only be the military and economical warfare being hurled far and wide by huge western generated military and financial muscle-flexing operations both surreptitiously and blatantly orchestrated by those who inherited the rules of international law set up by their own immediate forefathers. Treaties aren't even as good as the paper upon which they were written, and diplomacy is no longer the name of the game.

I could go on, but everyone here knows how it goes.

Posted by: juliania | Aug 1 2019 0:25 utc | 32

@ Jen | Jul 31 2019 22:50 utc | 22

FWIW, here's a comment I wrote in mid-2014 that corroborates your view of the Maidan protestors:
_________________________________________________________________

During the first days of the Kiev street protests, I watched a couple of RT News "vox pop", fka "man on the street", interviews with protesters; they were upset with then-president Yanukovych's refusal to sign the "reform" agreement.

It was pathetic and depressing: an old man explained that he was angry because his wife had to go to Poland to buy cheap potatoes-- if Yanukovych would just sign the damn deal, the outrageous food prices would drop and they could afford to buy local potatoes! A teen or twentysomething guy said he took to the streets because he wanted an education; he couldn't afford to attend the university because of Ukraine's disastrous economy-- but if Yanukovych agreed to the EU pact, he would surely be able to go to school and consequently get a good job after he graduated.

No one seemed to know or care about the IMF, austerity, or any of the implications and consequences of accepting the deal. I'm not putting them down for focusing on crucial practical desires like affordable food and accessible higher education, but they seemed completely oblivious or indifferent to the "business" end of the deal.

And in case anyone out there still buys into the "RT is Russia's propaganda network" propaganda-- I seriously doubt that the RT producers "cherry-picked" these responses.

I hope the old guy gets his cheap potatoes, and the young guy gets his shot at university life. But I fear that before they do, they'll get a lesson in "Be careful what you wish for."

Posted by: Ort | Aug 1 2019 0:29 utc | 33

Regarding Ukraine, I just finished van Der Pijl's Flight MH17, Ukraine, and the New Cold War. It is a very good book, and I think many here would find interesting. In the book, he mentions that Ukraine's gold was taken shortly after the coup. Does anyone know more about this? I found this article on Global Research Ukraine's Gold. Thanks! I learn so much from everyone here.

Posted by: roza shanina | Aug 1 2019 0:38 utc | 34

Why did Ukraine and Brazil were successful and Hong Kong wasn't?

In Ukraine, there was a substantial portion of the population who was anti-Russia/neonazi. They also had a geographic advantage in that they had the whole Western Ukraine (centered geopolitically in Lvov) to group, train, organize the lines of communication and logistics, receive weapons and supplies from NATO and, worst case scenario, fall back.

Politically, it had the weight of the EU, with its big carrot (EU membership, which, with the new rules, would automatically mean also EZ membership), to bend the will of the "80% neutral population" to the side of the neonazis. Mogherini was very smart, because she intentionally gave a very crap deal to Yanukovich and, after Putin stated Russia would be fine if Ukraine decided to be part of both the EU and the EEU, stated clearly the EU wouldn't allow such scenario (i.e. he had to choose either one or the other).

But what was decisive in Ukraine was that the US-backed opposition, by the time of Maidan protests, already had the means to wage a full-fledged unconventional warfare at its maximum level (civil war) and win. It was the neonazi militias already stationed and ready in Galicia -- not the "body count" at Maidan -- that seized the day for the counter-revolutionaries.

Even in this textbook scenario, it still cost the counter-revolutionaries Crimea and the its two most rich provinces: Lughansk and Donetsk. Their geographic bliss was also accompanied by a geographic nightmare: the same way they had NATO (through Poland and Germany), Yanukovich and the separatists had Russia next door. They used Russia to fall back, successfully (including mass immigration to Russia by Russian Ukrainians). It is impossible for the neonazi government to encircle the separatists now.

--//--

Brazil was a completely different case -- and that's why it was, to date, USA's most spetacular victory by Hybrid Warfare to date.

To begin with, Brazil was already institutionally structured to be pro-USA since the change of its military doctrine at the end of the 1950s, after the fall of dictator Getulio Vargas (1954). Brazil remained rabidly pro-USA after the "redemocratization" (1988).

By the time the Workers' Party finally came to federal power (2003), it was essentially treated by the institutions (Armed Forces, Judiciary power, most of the legislative two chambers, police forces, MSM, NGOs etc. etc.) as an impostor government. The situation, therefore, didn't even need to call for unconventional warfare or complex geographic planning. Only infiltration was necessary.

Posted by: vk | Aug 1 2019 0:40 utc | 35

Thanks for in depth coverage of the Hong Kong battle of WWIII b

Empire has maintained control in the world by inciting and managing conflicts everywhere they find resistance to their religion. The more conflicts, the better the control opportunities...taking advantage of crisis concept.

So what was and is still trying to be is control by a thousand conflicts.

The reality is that empire is not in control of conflicts related to China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba and others.

So now we are witnessing death by a thousand cuts undermining the ability to project more conflict by empire.

Maybe the White Hats should move to HK to "help out"....../snark

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 1 2019 0:43 utc | 36

KC @18

As I have pointed out before, dissatisfaction is irrelevant. You can always find a significant portion of any population, including the most wealthy and privileged communities in the West, who are dissatisfied with their situation in life. Meanwhile you can find impoverished people in third world countries who are satisfied. The fact is that dissatisfaction is a state of mind, and it afflicts people regardless of whether they have anything to be dissatisfied about or not. This isn't to say that nobody has a right to be dissatisfied, and in fact dissatisfaction is a good thing as it motivates progress, but don't pretend that people in Hong Kong have it tough because they do not.

Next point is that people do not rebel because they have things tough. People rebel because they believe things can be better than they are if they rebel. Keeping that in mind, and recalling the reality that Hong Kong can never be an independent state, and note that no country will throw Hong Kong a lifeline that will allow them to achieve their dream of a better life if they cut loose from China, realize that the protesters in Hong Kong are clinging to a delusion that cannot come to pass in the real world. There is 0% chance that what the protesters think they are fighting for can come to pass... precisely like what the delusional Maidan protesters hoped to achieve was impossible.

So who is it that is skilled in selling impossible delusions? Well, the land of Disney and Hollywood, of course. The land where if you wish it hard enough you can assume the gender of mountain panda and it will be illegal for anyone to suggest to you that it isn't so.

The reality is that people in Hong Kong have a pretty good life. Even the poorest in Hong Kong are not too bad off. Nobody will offer them a better deal than what mainland China is offering. There are plenty of people in Hong Kong who are dissatisfied with their lives, just like there are plenty of people in New York or Los Angeles or London or Paris etc who are dissatisfied with their lives, but what the protesters are dreaming for is not something that anyone will give to them.

Finally, the people of Hong Kong can achieve some of their dreams, but it will take hard work, and it isn't mainland China that is holding them back from achieving those dreams. That is not the path the protesters are taking, however. The protesters have been convinced that all they need to do is destroy their current society and a better one will somehow magically arise in its place.

Isn't that so appealing? All you have to do is commit a massive selfish act of violent destruction and you can have a better life! Your dreams of a BMW in the driveway and a blonde girlfriend in your arms will come true!

But how has that worked for Ukraine? Libya? Syria? Yugoslavia? The Soviet Union? For any of the countries that the empire has launched regime change operations against?

The empire has refined the art of the get-rich-quick scam and expanded it to the national level. Those who fall for the scam and wallow in their dissatisfaction and try to destroy what they have in exchange for something they cannot get are the very weakest of the target society. They are the ones already divorced from reality and prone to delusion. Dwelling on their dissatisfaction is nonproductive.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 1 2019 0:46 utc | 37

You can fool a lot of the people most of the time. But you cannot fool the Universe for a second.

Those who are adding unnecessary suffering and pain to a world that comes with those by default, will ultimately pay a steep price. The notion of 'What goes around - comes around is not some Marvel comic wisdom. It is how the Universe works - in all aspects, in its myriad ways.

Sure, instant Karma is desired by a many people that have been at the receiving end of the capitalist stick. But this is not, or only rarely how it works. Those who engage in needless violence will look into the barrel of a weapon aimed at them and it will be the last thing they see. The sad part about all this is, that forgotten is the ancient wisdom - or even spat on it - that the world is a mirror. Adding nothing, taking nothing away. The reflection these criminals will have to look at will stain their underwear.

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly to the only possible solution for countries that are under attack by the Fascist West: expel and ban all Western GO's and NGO's, all Western propaganda outlets. Let there be darkness on the screens of the gullible ones. Because those who are okay with being constantly lied to, do not deserve the Truth. And those who demand the Truth, will always find a way to get to it.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 1:11 utc | 38

@37 William Gruff

You are a hard-working commenter, for which I'm grateful.

This point about dissatisfaction, and how it can be found anywhere and everywhere, and also how it can be inculcated and nurtured in susceptible people - these points should become the foundation stone for any understanding of how these color revolutions work.

I have noted before how impressed I am with the extreme delicacy that the CIA uses in the early stages to infiltrate people into what are completely authentic movements, and to influence and suborn those already inside. For as wicked and vicious as the CIA is, it has always seemed remarkable to me how well they can simulate compassion, prior to nurturing it into outrage.

As you say, dissatisfaction can be encouraged, and this is in fact the act of the seducer committing "alienation of affection". We humans are a pliable lot, and this comes from noble qualities not weak qualities. But we are susceptible to lies that claim to be true, and enemies who affect to be friends. Again, I don't call this a weakness in itself.

~~

The comments that suggest the people of Hong Kong have legitimate grievances should be answered by the policy of China regarding Hong Kong, which is "One Nation, Two Systems". Beijing has rigourously stood back from Hong Kong, because this was what it committed to do, and it has honored that commitment scrupulously. I'm not expert but I believe these two systems become one system in about 2046(?). A long time from now.

This means two things. One is that China cannot come in and transform Hong Kong without being asked. Two is that whatever mess Hong Kong people find themselves in, they have only the legacy colonial system of government and the legacy colonial economy to blame, and these were both left to them by Britain.

To think that the misfortunes of Hong Kong are somehow caused by the rest of China is a vast error. The misfortunes of Hong Kong are caused by the respectful distance that the rest of China has maintained, getting on with its own miracle of progress, which Hong Kong can see every day, but cannot share in.

Always worth re-linking Martin Jacques and his brilliant, 9-minute summary of Hong Kong's situation:
Martin Jacques‘ view on the Hong Kong development dilemma

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 1 2019 1:12 utc | 39

The land where if you wish it hard enough you can assume the gender of mountain panda and it will be illegal for anyone to suggest to you that it isn't so.

People who want to be Mountain Pandas are your least problem. That you have to write that is a reflection of your hatred against people who are not comfortable in their skin.

The real problem are Fascists and those will all agree with you. It should be nobody's business what people do without harming, or hurting others. Unless you proclaim to be a religious freak that is stuck in a paradigm that is much more or a problem than anybody's gender.

Focus on underage girls sold of to the highest bidders, to rampant slave markets in which human beings are sold not only for sex, but also for organ extraction. Gender? Give me an effing break.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 1:24 utc | 40

"...stuck in a paradigm that is much more OF a problem than anybody's gender."

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 1:26 utc | 41

Like some of the other posters here, I had some initial doubt about US involvement because I felt like the protesters had a legitimate gripe regarding the extradition bill. That was until I read that Pence, Pompeo and Bolton had meetings opposition figures of the protest. Nothing good happens when those 3 show up anywhere.

"As evidence, Hua provided examples of recent U.S. "interference" in which, she claims U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, U.S. National Security Adviser John Bolton and Pompeo met with opposition figures multiple times throughout the weeks-long protests over a controversial extradition bill."

Source:
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/07/739b8c951b92-china-accuses-us-of-being-behind-hong-kong-protests.html

Posted by: dissent | Aug 1 2019 2:00 utc | 42

Rob @ 31:

Found the cut-out you asked for: Brian Kern is apparently a known CIA operative in Hong Kong.

Also in the linked article is a photo of three to four (one is mostly hidden) protesters receiving cash payments for protesting and a message stating that protesters were being paid HK$1,000 for marching, HK$2,000 for chanting anti-govt diatribes and HK$5,000 for wrecking things.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 1 2019 2:04 utc | 43

@WG - so your point seems to be that these protests in HK would never have happened without the Americans. That people only protest when they think they can get a better deal. I disagree on both points, knowing full well that the U.S. and its NGO/DoS/CIA interests have a lot to gain from chaos in HK. I don't think you addressed the dissatisfaction with the rentier class and the lack of ability for various reasons for the young to start families - including exorbitant rents/housing & education costs and low wages/lack of jobs. I suppose they may be delusional thinking that could get any better, but among them there are plenty who would protest with or without being pushed by a foreign power.

And indeed no matter what anyone says here, China is almost certainly "meddling" with local HK politics including allegedly pre-choosing most political candidates who will be allowed to run for election according to the HK system. Yes - China will eventually assume control when HK is returned to Beijing, but I would guess there is a palpable sense among many people there that "freedoms" are being slowly pulled back as China uses its new economic power to extend new means of observe and control, much earlier than many of them had anticipated.

This is just an observation I'm making along with a few minor bits of speculation. I'm not basing this on any Western media source other than what I've read by linking from here. Of course there are going to be delusional people hoping for something they can never have at least long-term. But people who are satisfied that they can control their own personal destiny, get an education, have a family, have a say in which politicians represent them - even if they too are deluded (as many here in the U.S. are) - don't tend to protest and riot, even if outside forces are subconsciously or covertly attempting to make them do so.

Posted by: KC | Aug 1 2019 2:07 utc | 44

I just caught the "gender of mountain panda" line - I am with nottheonly1 - this is a clue to an underlying ideology; not just a slight joke or aside. Why would anybody care what gender another person decides to assume? I certainly don't buy into any grand conspiracy theory that 'teh gays' are given outsized media presence in the effort to undermine traditional society and families in the West. It's much more organic than that - and to make a case otherwise speaks to a totalitarian retrograde mindset that - interestingly enough given your assurances that even genuinely motivated protesters in HK are either deluded by others or deluding themselves - is deluding itself into thinking that human society at large will ever re-assume the paternalistic, gender-binary, traditional religious order that it had in the past; or at least do so without drastic, wide ranging and deadly origins.

But hey, maybe it was just a clever quip/aside and I've read too much into it. I don't read enough of your regular stuff to be sure where you stand (paleocon? quasi-libertarian?) but if one is allowed to go on flights of fancy then so must the other. Cheers.

Posted by: KC | Aug 1 2019 2:16 utc | 45

hopefully in three to five years there won't be a NYT.

same tactics as in venezeula, basically: have a fringe group of yuppies and "americanized" students act like assholes and then hope people won't notice the "democracy" movement is a clear minority of thugs. maybe wong will appoint himself "interim president".

it's always fun to stroll down memory lane and realize that the same twats pushing these stunts in china, venezuela and whatever country israel tells them to hate were the same ones mocking the "occupy" movement a few years back. were these bootlickers not - once again - yuppies segregated from the rest of their "countrymen" it might dawn on them that while people in china have fewer grievances and more opportunities than they did 20 years ago*, yanks have far more to be pissed about and far less recourse to alleviate that justified anger. in our managed "democracy" people might not throw acid on cops (yet) but they will elect a walking timebomb and unwittingly destroy the whole show from within.

* and no, i'm not saying china is a utopia. just that they still they some idea of "society" and social cohesion which is why they're slowly and steadily surpassing the united states of aynrandica in every possible field. as a wise man in a movie once said : "this shit ain't checkers - it's chess".

Posted by: the pair | Aug 1 2019 2:40 utc | 46

What of the arrests some weeks ago in Hong Kong allegedly of demonstrators with explosives? This was reported by ABC Australia against the flow of pro- demonstration coverage and since disappeared. An inconvenient truth? Surely an indication of a spirit of violence among demonstrators.
Link: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-20/hong-kong-police-seize-explosives-ahead-of-protests/11328830

Posted by: Bertrand Muscle | Aug 1 2019 3:44 utc | 47

Jen @ 43

Interesting, that is exactly what they did in Thailand some years ago. Farmers were making more money protesting than farming. The question is why? Even China appears not to know the answer to that question. The answer may not be far off, the West fears China and is doing everything in its power to weaken, contain and turn back the rising tide?

Prior US administrations helped China grow. This new US administration has run headlong into reversing the course.


Posted by: dltravers | Aug 1 2019 3:51 utc | 48

Bertrand@47

Or perhaps pro-Communist elements seeking to discredit the pro-Democracy protestors and pave the way for a crackdown by Beijing. The West does not have a monopoly on false flags.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 1 2019 3:52 utc | 49

For the newbie.....

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/09/the-ned-hong-kong-riots.html

Posted by: denk | Aug 1 2019 3:57 utc | 50

Shouldn't the Chinese be protesting against Sesame, for example, or maybe the unrestricted rise of techno-fascist ends and means, in every aspect of their lives?

Perhaps they could be protesting the only quite recently unimaginable level of surveillance to which they are presently subjected? I hear Hong Kong is many times worse than London for all matters of surveillance and intrusion, second only to Singapore, while the local Chinese Democrats prefer to blather on about their diminishing privileges.

Are they concerned about such things in China and who is reporting on that, I would sincerely like to know?

And please don't send me to CIA_S.O.T.T. if you are still such a Simp and a Chimp. It is Intelligence Media up and down the line. Anyone who is not approved officially or otherwise will soon be made silent, by institutionalized means if you don't understand, as has always been the case when anyone is attempting to speak in the public square without someone's approval.

Also, what are the agendas of those who ignore this most essential and other profoundly important questions all of the time?

Does anybody ask who will dare protest in China in the future, against all powerful gangster-oligarchies, after these obviously staged (by the West) and tolerated (by the Chinese) protests in Hong Kong convince most Chinese to be immediately disgusted with anyone who protests, or else be too terrified to register concerns of their own because they fear they will be fingered as a 'protester' themselves, and perhaps lose their job, apartment, family or be unable to board an effing train -- if they fail to respond adequately to the demands of an overzealous Neo liberal Maoist-come bureaucrat?

Has anyone noted the utter perversity of what someone might face in the future in China and/or in the United States, for example, if they or their family were being physically destroyed by some chemical/industrial/technological process sanctioned by Zio-Hitlerites in their own government?

Oh wait, I guess we have that already.

More generally and considering the history of China do some Chinese have legitimate concerns about their government considering perhaps 60 million people died prematurely as a result of the Chinese Cultural Revolution?

To me this looks like another example of how the left hand of alt media washes the right hand of MSM, so as to ensure we never talk about real issues, such as our impending (I guess we're past it already) enslavement by god knows how many new techs currently exploding into the purview of unelected and unaccountable 'administrators,' and most commonly pioneered in the West but made operational by talent rich Chinese, before being returned to the West to be used just the same.

This is also an example of how left hand oligarchs and gangsters of the West wash right hand oligarchs and gangsters of the east, of responsibility for their crimes and perfidiousness, by use of media and psychological trickery now sold to the Chinese or Russians by hockers from maybe Hollywood, Tavistock or Cambridge Analytica.

Today I turned on the radio for the first in two weeks, to hear of yet anther incident of retirement home medical staff giving residents early retirement -- from life as it were, via hard to detect overdoses of insulin. So many smart and conceptually minded people here I must ask, especially those who so uncritically cheer the example set by China or maybe Russia, can you not follow the logic of what is being promoted by you own inability to discuss the real holocaust and on-going holo-hoax promoted by Intelligence agencies, and why so many of us are unable to put up meaningful resistance to the steamroller baring down on us right now?

Posted by: C I eh? | Aug 1 2019 4:03 utc | 51

CI eh?

Excellent fucking comment. Great rant.

Wake up everbohdee!!!

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 1 2019 4:14 utc | 52

well, b's article is a wake up call in case anyone missed it! to each according to their abilities and means..

Posted by: james | Aug 1 2019 4:24 utc | 53

I Think I've Figured It Out.

"If all you have is a hammer, everything will look like a nail."

Yes -- the USSA security circus is running a "boiler plate" color revolution in Hong Cong -- simply because -- that is all they know how to do.

It's just a job and they just "work there."

Of course, we know that this will do nothing but screw up everything for the USSA on many levels, so absolutely nothing of any advantage will ever result.

But that is of no importance. This is purely about getting a routine job done, and maintaining job security. Too bad for Americans, Chinese, Hong Kongers, and everybody else. A job -- is a job.

Posted by: blues | Aug 1 2019 4:26 utc | 54

CIA 51

So you support this CIA caper to dish out its
'deliverance' to 'oppressed' Chinese ?

Hmmm

been wondering, where's that donkey,
sure enuff

heheh

Posted by: denk | Aug 1 2019 5:02 utc | 55

And in the mean time China and the rest of SE Asia march on creating a different world

China, ASEAN countries agree to forge closer ties

The take away quote
"
After the meeting, Wang told a press conference that China and ASEAN countries reached five important consensuses at the China-ASEAN foreign ministers' meeting and they are: to dovetail China's Belt and Road Initiative with the Master Plan on ASEAN Connectivity 2025, to designate 2020 as the year for China-ASEAN digital economy cooperation, to jointly safeguard multilateralism and oppose unilateralism and protectionism, to jointly establish regional rules, and to work together to maintain peace and stability.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 1 2019 5:16 utc | 56

I don't usually link to a Reuters posting but the one below needs to be discussed further than they take the subject

Sign of the times: China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down

The end of the article quote
"
While most shopkeepers interviewed by Reuters said they did not mind replacing their signs, some said it confused their customers and an employee at a halal butcher shop accused authorities of “erasing” Muslim culture.

“They are always talking about national unity, they’re always talking about China being international. Is this national unity?”
"

China is projecting a civilization state, not a nation state as the Martin Jacques links that Grieved has provided explains.

Further to this point, from the little research I have done, it is my understanding but don't have link, that to belong to the Party you cannot be a member of any religion. And further, to hold any government position you must be a Party member.

Crank up the ....BUT FREEEEEDOM BS to beyond 10 and this Reuters screed obfuscates the reality as expected.

Socialism or barbarism still sounds to me like the question that keeps not being asked correctly

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 1 2019 5:43 utc | 57

Wow that was a lot of response with many salient points and lots to think about. You could all be right but I would point out the following.

[Btw so far this is almost all in response to William Gruff although I think many said similar things. I'm going to post this before reading and thinking more (I've speed-read the rest but have to read it again at least once if not more).]

- I'm sure we both know it but Ukraine is a fairly large mid-sized country and has a geographic location between Russia and the EU with similarly sized borders to both. In comparison HK really has nothing but China: neighboring Macau (Chinese with Portuguese history) is tiny and Taiwan (Chinese but complicated and sort of independent) is too far away (4 to 5 hours by commercial air travel). Everything else is much further away.

- Everyone can safely assume China won't stay silent or passive if things get completely out of hand and China won't suffer much from any action at that point. China is more than capable of rooting out all US interest in HK overtly or covertly, violently or nonviolently, if they find it necessary. I think they wisely decided to prefer having HK itself put things back into order and address their own issues.

- The US only wanting destruction and strife and/or using this as a distraction could easily be true but neither HKers ("old" and "new", young and old) nor China will accept that. It's a good way to ensure that even more people will utterly hate the US but not much beyond that.

- HKers are annoyed at mainlander tourists etc. (sometimes purely petty, other times for good reasons). Now imagine how annoyed most HKers will be if all the protests make things even more bothersome. This applies to the protesters themselves as well. It won't be allowed to become a new status quo. Large entirely peaceful and respectful demonstrations could be tolerable but the aggressive nonsense is purely self-defeating to the extent that I thought China itself rather than the US might be using it to discredit the protests (it could also be both China and the US which underlines how deluded and ignorant the US is).

More generally:
I agree with William Gruff that I could easily be making the mistake of attributing and assuming too much rationality to the US, it's hard not to do that considering how much mad idiocy the US gets up to, but I also want to try to make sure not to underestimate them or conflate them with anyone else and other motives.

I guess the US would love to be attributed "ownership" of the protests, to be seen as some kind of champion (and they're not), to be seen as any kind of valid alternative (which they aren't).

To avoid doing the US unintentional favors it's probably appropriate to clearly differentiate between US interference no matter how (in)effective (b and others have that part nailed down) and giving the US the protest "ownership" or leadership.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 1 2019 5:56 utc | 58

CI eh?

Does anybody ask who will dare protest in China in the future, against all powerful gangster-oligarchies, after these obviously staged (by the West) and tolerated (by the Chinese) protests in Hong Kong convince most Chinese to be immediately disgusted with anyone who protests, or else be too terrified to register concerns of their own because they fear they will be fingered as a 'protester' themselves, and perhaps lose their job, apartment, family or be unable to board an effing train -- if they fail to respond adequately to the demands of an overzealous Neo liberal Maoist-come bureaucrat?

Has anyone noted the utter perversity of what someone might face in the future in China and/or in the United States, for example, if they or their family were being physically destroyed by some chemical/industrial/technological process sanctioned by Zio-Hitlerites in their own government?

Oh wait, I guess we have that already.

Posted by: donkeytale | Aug 1 2019 6:17 utc | 59

Nice article! I disagree with the last line, though. I don't think there will be much of a third attempt, in 3-5 years Honk Kong (and Taiwan) will be too integrated with China to pull any serious shenanigans.

Posted by: Hassaan | Aug 1 2019 6:33 utc | 60

Further to this point, from the little research I have done, it is my understanding but don't have link, that to belong to the Party you cannot be a member of any religion. And further, to hold any government position you must be a Party member.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 1 2019 5:43 utc | 57

FALSE. President Xi is from a devout Buddhist family and is a practicing Buddhist. As is his wife.

You are just propagating the bullshit misinformation of the West.

Posted by: BM | Aug 1 2019 7:32 utc | 61

I saw a few men living in large cardboard boxes in Hong Kong in 1987 within walking distance of the YMCA.

Posted by: Kp80 | Aug 1 2019 7:34 utc | 62

Jen @ 43
Interesting, that is exactly what they did in Thailand some years ago. Farmers were making more money protesting than farming.
Posted by: dltravers | Aug 1 2019 3:51 utc | 48

Many important parallels. Including the mysterious "armed men in black" who were openly shooting and murdering Thai police and soldiers. There were suggestions they were a rebel faction of the military who supported the red shirts, but everything was highly ambiguous (the only thing that was absolutely certain was that they were highly trained military professionals and that they had professional military hardware including machine guns, sniper rifles, and grenades; which side they were ultimately working for was ambiguous). That they might have been a specifically US-instigated and US-loyal colour revolution faction would solve a lot of riddles.

Posted by: BM | Aug 1 2019 7:49 utc | 63

Many important parallels. Including the mysterious "armed men in black" ...

... That colour revolution was basically red versus yellow, but the black we cen see as a recurring emblam for the US military and their proxies, such as the SWAT teams, Blackwater mercenaries, ISIS mercenaries, etc.

Posted by: BM | Aug 1 2019 7:54 utc | 64

William Gruff @37 & Grieved @39
"For as wicked and vicious as the CIA is, it has always seemed remarkable to me how well they can simulate compassion, prior to nurturing it into outrage."

Reading both of your comments, and especially this line from Grieved, it crossed my mind what a common tactic this has become for the US. I'm thinking not just of the CIA, but consider how the FBI uses its provocateurs and confidential informants and the like. It has been remarked that they haven't foiled a single actual terrorist act since the institution of the Patriot Act, but they manage an arrest every year or so that they can point to as "successes" when hearings about the need for the Act roll around. But the arrests always turn out to be some poor teenager who is just beginning to become awakened to US abuses, who is venting online, and makes a "new friend" and mentor who is oh so supportive, and gradually encourages more and more extreme comments (so as to build the prosecutorial record), and then who just happens to "know some guy" who has access to explosives, and here we go again.

As with the CIA, the FBI doesn't seem to care who gets hurt in all this, or that the outcome is increased chaos, because chaos has become their raison d'être. And if the calvary misses its cue for its heroic entrance...well, a few Oklahoma Citys keep people believing they should grant even more power to these deviant government agencies.

Posted by: J Swift | Aug 1 2019 9:17 utc | 65

> Morover they do not even try to hide it anymore waving the US flag in the middle of the military formation and asking the US to intervene...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 31 2019 21:43 utc | 17

Anymore? Didn't they do the same on EuroMaidan, just those were mostly EU flags, but it is small detail not the method.

And I wonder if there was no please to "civilized Europe" to help them during the 2nd, Orange Maidan

There is nothing new, they never hid it! The spin was different: that EU and USa are best thing after sliced Yanukovich, so they SHOULD be invited to rule Ukraine.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 9:25 utc | 66

For a momentary comic relief though:

http://www.jagodibuja.com/2019/07/jagos-adventures-ukraine-part2-2/

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 9:26 utc | 67

KC: yes to some extent we were, they are not mutually exclusive as you say.

---

Jen: I don't disagree much however for HK a separation from China isn't even "as easy" as Ukraine wrongly imagined a break from RF trade etc. would be. Without China HK would be a little bit like living on the moon and far more expensive than it already is (which is already extreme).

---

Karlof1: yes they're not new except they're increasingly worse and smaller. "Flats" the size of individual compartments in those Japanese micro-hotels, still costly, more common, and there are a lot more people competing for them.

I don't think they've yet reached the level of standing sleeping places behind a rope tied to a wall like they had in London centuries ago, but they're not far off.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Aug 1 2019 9:32 utc | 68

China is saddled with three types of trojan horses...

The obvious ones, NGOs.

Two, the millions churches, especially those infested with foreign evangelists.
The worst are those 'underground' churches,
Churches are major brainwashing centres where millions of teens are fed propaganda , that their loyaties lie with gawd, not their parents, not their country, that CCP is anti christ hence their enemy.

Third,
The army of English teachers from oversea, especially
those of the [[[five liars]]]/
These are the most insidious brain snatchers.
China is literally paying top monies to foreigners,
whether spooks or otherwise, to brainwash its own
youngs.

Posted by: denk | Aug 1 2019 9:33 utc | 69

But as for the protests in HK, and Russia and Venezuela and everywhere else--until the governments round up and arrest all of the CIA-front NGO members, charging them with incitement to riot, there will be no end to the repetition of these scenes.

Posted by: J Swift | Aug 1 2019 9:40 utc | 70

nottheonly1 @ 40

"The land where if you wish it hard enough you can assume the gender of mountain panda and it will be illegal for anyone to suggest to you that it isn't so." (William Gruff @ 37).

"That you have to write that is a reflection of your hatred against people who are not comfortable in their skin."
"Why would anybody care what gender another person decides to assume?' KC @45

"...it will be illegal for anyone to suggest to you that it isn't so."

Most people don't care, I don't, and I suspect William G doesn't either, & I certainly don't care enough to hate. Feel free to identify as whatever you want but don't expect me to panda pander to your delusion. I will not be joining in.

Posted by: ted01 | Aug 1 2019 9:41 utc | 71

Then there's that elephant in the room...

fukus 'embassies' , aka CIA/MI6 safe houses.

I heard the US embassy./consulate in HK has over
1000 staffs, even its UK counterpart has
over 700 !

WTF !

Posted by: denk | Aug 1 2019 9:46 utc | 72

> The protesters should thoughtfully escalate nonviolence, maybe even resort to mild force, to push the government to the edge.

which, by the way, is ONLY possible if protestors are TIGHTLY controlled by some mastermind, who carefully observes the situation and almost in real time charts where that very edge lays this very hour. And ALL the protesters then must dance precisely on that edge with not margin for error.

That is just not possible in "organic public outrage" control, it needs the "cadre of professional revolutionaries" to quote Lenin

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 10:11 utc | 73

One can not look past the numbers and assume this is just a typical color revolution. Sure, there likely is some US influence and some protest leaders are being paid off to prevent the real issues behind the protests from being addressed. But for the majority...

Posted by: Pft | Jul 31 2019 23:08 utc | 26

So, how is it different from any colour revolutions?

Different from 2nd and 3rd Maidan's in Ukraine, for example, which allegedly were about fighting poverty and corruption (by total subjugation to West, but the method is a small and irrelevant detail, right?)

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 10:18 utc | 74

nottheonly1 @40 sez: "That you have to write that is a reflection of your hatred against people who are not comfortable in their skin."

Nope, I pity them. I reserve my hatred for those who take advantage of the delusional for profit and empire. Fascists are the ones who serve the profiteers and the empire. Try to discern the difference.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 1 2019 10:28 utc | 75

KC @44 sez: "I don't think you addressed the dissatisfaction with the rentier class..."

Where are these protests being directed against the rentier class? And if the protests somehow succeed in destroying the Hong Kong government, can the protesters grievances with the rentier class then be addressed? Of course not.

As I said, I have no doubts that there are people in Hong Kong who are dissatisfied about things, but how is it that some of them have become convinced that it is the Communists from the mainland who are the source of their ills?

Someone has sold them a batch of snake oil. Some gang who is very good at marketing. Some gang that convinces the thirsty to buy $billions in carbonated corn syrup water that just makes them thirstier.

If we were seeing labor unions striking for better pay and tenant associations doing rent strikes for lower rent and better maintenance, then you would have a point. We are not seeing anything of the sort, though. We are seeing delusional young people who have never had a job that can anchor them to reality throwing bricks at cops who have nothing to do with the high rents. Again, if first there were rent strikes and the cops came to harass the strikers and evict people, then and only then would the protesters directing their ire at the police be part of a natural and organic uprising against the rentiers. As of yet the police have done nothing to prevent the protesters protesting legitimate grievances.

Sure, lots of people in HK have a legitimate beef about something or another, but none of the protests have directed any attention towards any of those beefs. How is this even possible? ONLY if the protests are not organic and are being directed externally.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 1 2019 10:57 utc | 76

Western "opposition" in Russia is known to be scouting for genuine protests then hijacking them and turning them into "Putin must go because bloody regime" shows, totally dropping the original point everywhere but their own marketing "even X see no other way around than liberating Russia of the regime..." stunts

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 11:05 utc | 77

@William Gruff | Aug 1 2019 10:28 utc | 75

Nope, I pity them.

'Pity' is an expression of a skewed world view. These folks don't need your pity. They don't need your approval either. A quick look at Nature reveals, that is only humans - and among them only the religious freaks - that have issues with gender. In Native North American Indian and Polynesian Cultures, what is now dubbed 'Transgender' people, were revered and worshiped for knowing both sides of the coin.

Your pity is what is exemplary for the delusions of people who are cocksure about to know what is okay and what is not. This thread is about the instigated Hong Kong riots and you have to talk about gender?

The Fascists in the US just passed a $ 1.48 trillion 'defense' that surely includes monies to instigate riots in Hong Kong and Moscow.

But the real problem are gender neutral bathrooms, huh? Pathetic, really. No wonder there is no future for mankind.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 11:45 utc | 78

karlof1 | Jul 31 2019 20:43 utc | 13

As has been remarked already, there is no way that this "color revolution" can succeed in breaking HK away from China. Therefore one has to look for other motivation. It seems to me that the most likely ones, are to annoy and distract the Chinese government and to damage its reputation in the west and HK itself.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 1 2019 12:15 utc | 79

An effect these stuff has is to turn the Chinese mainland against the CIA propaganda, letting them see the effects. Hong Kong is CIA infected. The Triads and HSBC, CIA's bank, try to run the place.

Posted by: j | Aug 1 2019 12:29 utc | 80

The foreign supporters of HK citizens' expression of dissatisfaction are not trying to 'win', - as if they could give a flying fuck about a few million 'slopes'.

Their purpose is to add fuel to the perception of China as the enemy - place another brick in the wall to inhibit mistrust- subvert by insinuating deceit where there is none, to obstruct communication between humans who live in china and those humans who do not, but who do imagine they have a participatory say in the outcome.
For me the most interesting secret about this diversion is that the HK police, you know the ones who back in the day when the joint claimed to be an outpost of merrie olde england, that the Met used to stick those coppers who were too clumsily corrupt. Sending 'em out to Honkers meant these bent coppers could continue to pull a decent earner without causing embarassment to a gang whose greed exceeded the deportees but whose success remains a function of their ability to deceive and distract.
Even now the HK bill is headed up by englander cops whose ability to trouser a wedge has become hugely enhanced by dancing to DC tunes as well as the standard and considerably tamer yet still rewarding Beijing nouveau riche f++kers' songs.

Posted by: Dustin P Time | Aug 1 2019 12:35 utc | 81

This violent/non-violence method of protest has become signature method of protest movements.
Would appear to be outsourced organizing unless they are simply copying each other which I doubt.
It does not seem particularly effective except in making headache for government and the people in who's community the protests occur - which will be punished by loss of image, business and investment. Which will make all the people unhappy and angry and some will leave.
And it justifies some increase in militarism by the government.

These 3rd party organizers are not friends of the people and they should be out-ed.

Posted by: jared | Aug 1 2019 12:35 utc | 82

Far more effective would be passive resistance.
These Chinese need to learn some Zen, I think.
I think it is a part of why western states are aging and productivity growth is leveling.

Posted by: jared | Aug 1 2019 12:47 utc | 83

Pft | Aug 1 2019 3:52 utc | 49

Or perhaps pro-Communist elements seeking to discredit the pro-Democracy protestors and pave the way for a crackdown by Beijing. The West does not have a monopoly on false flags.

If this were a "communist false flag" (You have other examples?) then would the NYT support it? Would the leaders of it run to Pompeo and the CFR, NED and so on?

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 1 2019 13:04 utc | 84

If more were needed to know that all these so called "peaceful protests" which then try to scalate to the seizing of governmental buildings to then scalate into regime change operation have the same origin ( read financing, organizing and support ), clear dissonace between the alleged and real motives for "peaceful demonstration", as well as intents on declaring "hunt season" on cops doing their duty, have appeared not only in Hong Kong but also in the past days "peaceful demostrations" in Moscow on the alleged alibi of townhall elections....

https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/07/russia-protests-what-western-media-doesnt-show-you/

Notice also the common feature in modus operandi with last protests in Tbilisi, using any alibi at hand to storm a governmental building and then ask for regime change in favour of a opposition minority who holds no chance at free elections and whom gives a damn the destiny of the country, all the same playbook as in the Ukraine, where plain nazis who then would allow the Ukrainian gold be shifted to the US in the first very days of post Maidan nazi junta regime, were rastinishingly aised to power in a historically mainly antifascist country and land.....

Posted by: Sasha | Aug 1 2019 13:12 utc | 85

psychohistorian | Aug 1 2019 5:43 utc | 57

Reuters is about as reliable as the BBC. It was bought by Rothschild a long time ago. The facts asserted may well be true, the slant put on them otoh may well be something quite else.

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 1 2019 13:22 utc | 86

> In Native North American Indian and Polynesian Cultures, what is now dubbed 'Transgender' people, were revered and worshiped for knowing both sides of the coin.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 11:45 utc | 78

And none of those cultures created what we know today as civilization. It is not that they failed - they did not even try.

Coincidence?

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 13:28 utc | 87

You really have a loose screw somewhere if you believe China would allow a color revolution from the U.S. to succeed. They will send in the army with unlimited bullets and carte blanche first.

Posted by: morongobill | Aug 1 2019 13:31 utc | 88

Far more effective would be passive resistance.
These Chinese need to learn some Zen, I think.

Posted by: jared | Aug 1 2019 12:47 utc | 83

Oh, Yanukovich's government in 2013 had plenty of Zen, it was washing in Zen....
Where is it, BTW ?

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 13:32 utc | 89

If this were a "communist false flag" (You have other examples?)

Posted by: foolisholdman | Aug 1 2019 13:04 utc | 84

Oh, of course!
Look at poor American attorney named meow-meowller, in his recent testimony he was grilled for failing to adequately expose Russian (Putin's) nefarious role in producing the fake Steele dossier and thus discrediting American freedoms.

Posted by: Arioch | Aug 1 2019 13:34 utc | 90

And none of those cultures created what we know today as civilization. It is not that they failed - they did not even try.

Civilization?

Ha, ha, ha, ha!

Mahatma Gandhi was asked: "What do You think about Western civilization?"
Answer: "I think it would be a good thing."

And yes, show me the proof that he didn't say that.

What you call 'civilization' is delusional consumerism and Fascist militarism.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Aug 1 2019 14:07 utc | 91

The NYT has stopped Hong Kong editorials and is coordinated with the rest of the mainstream news Reuters/AP/WashPo, the propaganda sources echoed down every city paper and local TV and national cable. Now just a trickle.

Venezuela also stopped, no more "President" Juan Guaido, just Juan Guaido and little news about Trump's Coup since the mass thieving corruption of Guaido's group hit the news.

It is Iran in the media lens now. The US people can only be "directed" a few issues at a time.

Posted by: Johnny Law | Aug 1 2019 14:17 utc | 92

@ C I eh? | Aug 1 2019 4:03 utc | 51

Good point. Noam Chomsky - Vigorous debate within narrow boundaries.

Surprising amount of energy behind tangential issues.
Focus on what matters.

Posted by: jared | Aug 1 2019 14:20 utc | 93

Grieved says:

I'm not expert but I believe these two systems become one system in about 2046(?). A long time from now

well, speaking of time travel, check out the masterful Hong Kong director, Wong Kar Wai's beautiful 2004 film, 2046...

live for the future…
long for the past

Posted by: john | Aug 1 2019 14:26 utc | 94

The government should jail the leaders of this in solitary confinement in a 6x3x3 cell for a decade.. Like the Japanese sleeping hotels.. That way they can stick a lot of them up in a small area.. After a few thousand of them are stuck there no one will go out and protest for unkle imperialist..

Posted by: Igor Bundy | Aug 1 2019 14:44 utc | 95

HK being wealthy and happy is not the point of this operation. HK being a devastated wreck that saps China's vitality and is a source for CIA terror cells to attack China with is the point.

Then, China would fumigate and steamroller Hong Kong within a month.

Posted by: boyko | Aug 1 2019 14:54 utc | 96

@ Posted by: Pft | Aug 1 2019 3:52 utc | 49

Apart from ample evidence that leaders of the riots have previously and continue to meet with American officials and Taiwanese authorities, you have to reconcile the fact that they are openly supported by the Western MSM, which is clearly triangulating the issue (specially the liberal trifecta of NYT, WaPo and The Guardian) and of which one of its members -- the NYT -- openly admitted to always (not "sometimes" or "regularly") ask permission of the US Government (read: the Pentagon and the CIA) before it publishes any geopolitical article.

Posted by: vk | Aug 1 2019 14:58 utc | 97

Everything you know about Hong Kong is wrong.

Hong Kong is a tiny place that, by a political fluke, became the tollbooth for the shipment of goods manufactured in then-slave labor China to the West (for a long time, virtually everything stamped "made in Hong Kong" was made in communist China).

Now with China able to transport goods freely from its own ports, Hong Kong is no longer special, and its core revenue generator is sputtering out.

Meanwhile, the Hong Kong elites are forcing massive immigration into Hong Kong, cancelling out the low native fertility rates (because the Hong Kong-ese, like decent people everywhere, don't think that living in a chicken coop is a great time to raise a family of four). This massive immigration-fueled population pressure is driving rents and crowding up, and wages down. Increasingly Hong Kong is like a well-run medium security prison with an excellent health care system, but outside of the big banks, the living conditions for the average person are being reduced to misery.

That's what the protests are really about, but the western press will never ever mention demographic pressure as a cause of conflict, so they make it all about politics. But politics doesn't matter when the law of supply and demand forces you to live in a chicken coop.

Amateurs talk politics, professionals talk demographics.

Posted by: TG | Aug 1 2019 15:17 utc | 98

TG @98 said: "That's what the protests are really about..."

Doubtless there are many in Hong Kong who are dissatisfied with their housing and employment situations, as are a few billion other people on the planet, but where are these protestors raising those issues? What can the police do about those issues? Have the police even moved to prevent them from protesting those issues?

No, these protests are strictly regime change oriented and no efforts are being made to direct attention to real legitimate concerns of the people of Hong Kong. That in and of itself remains proof that the protests are not organic and are being managed by external actors who don't care about the real legitimate concerns of the people of Hong Kong.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 1 2019 16:18 utc | 99

pft
'One can not look past the numbers and assume this is just a typical color revolution. Sure, there likely is some US influence and some protest leaders are being paid off to prevent the real issues behind the protests from being addressed. But for the majority'


In every CIA color rev, only the top cadres know what's
going on, the foot soldiers, swarming adolecents in
Gene Sharp' theory, are just brainwashed cannon fodders.
Whether witting or unwitting, they'r all patsies doing
fukus bidding/,


'The West does not have a monopoly on false flags.'

care to backup your claim ?

or more likely,
Projecting from your vast experience in FF ?
Robber crying robbery ?

Posted by: denk | Aug 1 2019 16:19 utc | 100

next page »

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Working...