Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 27, 2019

The U.S. Stunt In Hong Kong Will Make Other Issues More Difficult

The current attempt of a U.S. instigated color revolution in Hong Kong is failing:

Protesters wearing all black streamed through the Yuen Long area, even though police refused to grant permission for the march, citing risks of confrontations between demonstrators and local residents.

By nightfall, protesters and police were once again facing off in the streets, as they've done previously during the summer-long pro-democracy protests in the Chinese territory. Demonstrators threw objects and ducked behind makeshift shields, and police officers shot plumes of tear gas into the air.

In May the chief organizer of the demonstrations met with U.S. leaders:

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo met with Hong Kong pro-democracy leader Martin Lee on Thursday, the State Department said, as Hong Kong activists seek to derail a proposed extradition law pushed by Beijing.

“Secretary Pompeo expressed concern about the Hong Kong government’s proposed amendments to the Fugitive Ordinance law, which threaten Hong Kong’s rule of law,” the department said in a statement.

Lee founded the first pro-democracy party in Hong Kong in 1990 and has been a prominent voice calling for civil liberties for the city’s residents.

Lee and other U.S. stooges organized large demonstrations against an extradition bill which would allow the government to send people who committed crimes in mainland China, Taiwan and Macau to those provinces where the crime was committed to receive their punishment. Hong Kong already has similar agreements with foreign countries.

Since then the government of Hong Kong temporarily pulled the bill back. The protest movement immediately diminished. But a core of black-clad students, influenced by the U.S. paid leaders, is trying to keep the struggle up. Throughout the last weeks they broke into the parliament building and ransacked it. They defiled family graves or pro-Chinese politicians, attacked police lines, harassed elderly arrivals (vid) at Hong Kong's airport and today, during an illegal demonstration, destroyed a car which they falsely believed to have a Chinese mainland owner.

Their aims are clearly unachievable and racist nonsense:

Carl Zha @CarlZha - 18:59 UTC · Jul 26, 2019

A Hong Kong protester besiege the old man at Hong Kong Airport helpfully hold up sign “Hong Kong Revolution, Chinese NOT Welcome, Taiwan Independence, Kick Out All Chinese”

Just in case you are not clear what the protest is about

Such behavior and slogans will only diminish the popular support they might have received otherwise.

That the U.S. is behind these riots can also be seen in the slanted coverage the riots receive in 'western' media. The picture they draw is incomplete:

Unable to defeat the bill legislatively, Hong Kong's pro-Western opposition has taken to the streets. With the help of Western media spin - the illusion of popular opposition to the extradition bill and Beijing's growing influence over Hong Kong is created.

What is not only omitted - but actively denied - is the fact that the opposition's core leaders, parties, organizations, and media operations are all tied directly to Washington DC via the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and corporate foundations like Open Society Foundation.

Hong Kong has 7.5 million inhabitants. While demonstrations of several ten thousands seems big, they does not represent a majority. The so called 'pro-democracy' parties in Hong Kong have lost in each and every local election. The pro-China parties always receive a majority of votes.

Hong Kong was once the exclusive 'door to China'. It lost that status when China opened up for trade. Today a number of much larger cities within the mainland are way richer and more important. Hong Kong has little influence on what happens elsewhere in China. The temporary special status it received after Britain's colonial rule is of little concern. Most people in Hong Kong recognize that. They know that their economic well being now depends on Beijing's good will.

The U.S. may believe that the circus it creates with these student stunts might push China into doing something harsh. But the mainland is not concerned about such nonsense. It already knows how this will end:

“Trying to seize the opportunity to incite chaos in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region does not have popular support and will not be successful,” [Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang] said.

The students who were instigated to commit violence and crimes will go to jail. The extradition bill will be reintroduced at a convenient time and pass Hong Kong's legislative council with a large majority.

As that outcome was totally predictable one wonders why the Trump administration bothered to launch such nonsense. It will only make it more difficult to solve other problems, like North Korea or global trade, over which China has influence.

Posted by b on July 27, 2019 at 17:06 UTC | Permalink

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OT

Guys, i think i found the reason behind the trade wars and crack down on globalisation by the US. They think that they will save themselves, to a certain degree, that way.

There are long term GDP Growth and Socioeconomic Scenarios developed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the OECD, and the world scientific community. They are generally used to measure the impact of Climate change on the World. In order to measure it, Socioeconomic Scenarios were developed, as the level of economic growth in the world is very important for determining the impact of Climate Change in the future. High growth levels will obviously affect Climate change, so these estimates are important.

For more on this you can check these studies here, some of the many dealing with this topic.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378016300681#sec0025

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959378015000837

There are 5 main scenarios. All of them describe different worlds.

SSP 1 - Green World, economic cooperation, reduced inequality, good education systems. High level of economic growth, fast catch up of the developing world with the developed world. High level of multipolarity.

SSP 2 - More of the same/ Muddling through - continuation of the current trends. Relatively high level of economic growth, relatively fast catch up of the developing world with the developed world. Good level of multipolarity.

SSP 3 - Regional Rivalry - nationalisms, trade wars, lack of global cooperation, fragmentation of the word, environmental degradation. Low levels of economic growth everywhere, the developing world remains poor and undeveloped. Low level of multipolarity, West retains many positions.

SSP 4 Inequality - depicts a world where high-income countries use technological advances to stimulate economic growth; leading to a high capacity to mitigate. In contrast, developments in low income countries are hampered by very low education levels and international barriers to trade. Growth is medium, the catch up process between the developing world and the developed world is not fast. Medium level of multipolarity.

SSP 5 Economic growth and fossil fuels take priority over green world - High levels of economic growth, fast catch up of the developing world with the developed world. High level of multipolarity.

See SSP 3. A world of rivalry, trade wars, trade barriers, lack of global cooperation, and fragmentation, will lead to lower level of growth in the developing world, and thus a slow catch up process. Multipolarity in such a world is weak as the developing world is hampered.

In other words, a world of cooperation between countries will lead to higher economic growth in the developing world, faster catch up process, and thus stronger multipolarity. Basically, globalisation is key. The developing world (ex West) was growing slowly before globalisation (before 1990). Globalisation means sharing of technology and knowledge, and companies investing in poorer countries. Outsourcing of western manufacturing. Etc. After globalisation started in 1990, the developing world is growing very well. It is globalisation that is weakening the West and empowering the developing world. So the US needs to kill it.

So what do we see: exactly attemts to create the SSP 3 scenario. Trade wars, sanctions, attacks on multilateral institutions - the WTO, on international law, on the Paris Agreement for Climate Change (which if accepted would put constraints on the US economy), on the UN, bullying of Europe, support for Brexit (which weakens Europe), crack down on chinese students and scientists in the US, crack down on chinese access to western science data, demands to remove the perks for poor countries in the WTO, etc. This is hitting economic growth in the whole world and the global economy currently is not well. By destroying the world economy, the US benefits as it hampers the rise of the developing nations.

You can see this process described in this article:

Trump’s Brilliant Strategy to Dismember U.S. Dollar Hegemony

https://russia-insider.com/en/trumps-brilliant-strategy-dismember-us-dollar-hegemony/ri26154

But the author is wrong. Trump does not do that in order to dismantle the dollar or US hegemony. Trump does that in order to save it, implementing policies, in my opinion, devised by the US military/intelligence community. They want to destroy globalisation and create fortress US, in order to save as much as possible of the US Empire. Chaos and lack of cooperation in the world benefit the US.

Posted by: Passer by | Jul 27 2019 17:09 utc | 1

The Outlaw US Empire's desperate. It was recently announced that Russia/China trade is now conducted mostly in Yuan/Rubble with dollar transactions at 45% and dropping fast. Plus, the volume of Russia/China trade is rapidly increasing and has already surpassed 2018's volume. The major Power of Siberia gas pipeline to China with an export capacity of 38 billion cubic meters compared with the initial Nordstream project's 55 billion cubic meters will vastly increase the non-dollar trade value. Additionally, China seeks ever more ag products from a Russia that's rapidly expanding that export potential thereby taking away one of the Empire's few export earners. Rather soon, all Russia/China trade will be outside of the dollar system while its volume rapidly expands. IMO, Hong Kong represents an Outlaw US Empire temper tantrum that only serves to further delegitimize its standing with China and the ASEAN region. Rather starkly, the Outlaw US Empire is beginning to realize China doesn't need it whatsoever, nor does most of Eurasia. Ouch!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2019 17:48 utc | 2

Ignorant nonsense. US interference is unhelpful but not really significant. This is a movement with broad support in HK society. Taking one person's silly sign and claiming that it represents the aims of all demonstrators not only distorts the facts, it shows you up as a fool with an agenda. Try harder next time.

Posted by: Ron Sizely | Jul 27 2019 18:06 utc | 3

Hmm are you trying to say that HK is unlike the Ukraine and the issuing mess that was created by the U.S. government agencies,if you are your sadly misinformed.!!!

Posted by: bluedog | Jul 27 2019 18:18 utc | 4

Ron Sizely no. 3

I don't doubt that Hong Kong residents have legitimate gripes, but like a tapeworm attaching itself to the host, almost any domestic unrest in any US "adversary" is usually tapped into by the US for its own purposes.

Posted by: sleepy | Jul 27 2019 18:20 utc | 5

Are you all sure that the majority of people in Hong Kong are being controlled and deluded by the US into supporting the demonstrations?

You don't think that that broad and arrogant dismissal of their will to be independent of the mainland isn't a little reminiscent of the U.S.'s attitude towards nations that don't play their game?

You should be careful. Sometimes one's world view and the framework with which one wishes to lay down over the top of a situation so that it 'fits' ends up in a violent confrontation between a square peg and a round hole.

Hong Kong might be an anomaly in that their desire for self-determination is grounded in a reasonable and assured sense of their own philosophy, one that prefers the west.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 27 2019 18:24 utc | 6

Karlof1 @ 2

I think you are overestimating the Outlaw US Empire's powers of self-awareness.

Posted by: Stumpy | Jul 27 2019 18:25 utc | 7

Thank you b. I had a strong suspicion that the west - particularly the US/UK - were behind this brouhaha, if for no other reason than that it arose when it did. And that the BBC World Service has been beating the drum for the protestors, always mentioning fantastical numbers (millions, hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands) when it does so.

The BBC World Service, as the US-UK voice of corporate-capitalist-imperialism, *never* speaks to those Hong Kong people who are not interested in the protests or the purported reasons for them (so much for their much vaunted "impartiality" which is and always has been utter bunkum). Nor, when the extradition bill is mentioned, does the Beeb *ever* point out that it includes Taiwan and Macau. Only China is spoken of as the focus of the bill. *Nor* does the BBC ever say that Hong Kong has (and is) used as a bolt hole for real criminals who are wanted in China, Taiwan and Macau. And they have never mentioned the fact that HK has similar treaties with other nation states. Nor has anything (in my hearing) been said about the US connections of any of the leaders of this "movement." Omitting information is as important as repetition, use of weaselly terms, outright lying when seeking to propagandize.

In contrast - because it's "one of us" - virtually nothing has been reported on the Gilets Jaunes protests, except on the odd occasion when some accompanying the protests have broken Parisian shop windows. And during those few and far between reports no mention at all was made about the French Riot Police's brutality and the terrible wounds they inflicted on the demonstrators. (Of course, we also never hear *anything* about what the Israelis do to Palestinians unless it can be portrayed as poor, weak and vulnerable Israel being victimized by the Goliath Palestinians.)

By contrast every report on the HK protests underscores the HK police's use of tear gas and plastic bullets.

Posted by: AnneR | Jul 27 2019 18:27 utc | 8

The real issue here is the idea that Western nations have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of sovereign countries, anywhere in the world, whenever it suits them to further the agenda of the Imperialism.

If the Chinese people of Hong Kong have a problem with their rulers, surely they have the right to do whatever they choose about it, without external interference. But apparently not, according the Empire and its lackeys. As ever, the West is the arbiter of other peoples lives (and death). It's sickening and I'm ashamed by the actions of our so-called leaders.

Posted by: Barovsky | Jul 27 2019 18:33 utc | 9

Below is a link to another stunt that late empire is doing keep the brainwashed in line and its failing if this posting is any indication

Religious Persecution Survivors on the Oval Stage

The brainwashed faith breathers need to ask themselves which country is really persecuting religions by using them as pawns in the ongoing oppression of others by the elite of empire and their puppets.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 27 2019 18:34 utc | 10

Except even the World Socialist Website sees the protests in Hong Kong as legitimate:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/26/hkch-j26.html

Even if the WSWS full well understands that the USA and UK have agent provocateurs there also.

Posted by: Jay | Jul 27 2019 18:35 utc | 11

Nice of you to quote Tony Cartalucci. As I mentioned in the previous thread, he has been banned by Facebook and Twitter. Cartalucci has been opposing NED, Soros and their fake civil society organizations and color revolutions in Asia for at least 10 years. Part of the reason for his ban is likely his opposition to the color revolution attempt in Hong Kong.

Follow Cartalucci on VK or read his blog, the Land Destroyer.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 27 2019 18:36 utc | 12

Yeah, this is bs. I watched the storming of the government office on twitter, that was organic. All opinion polling shows broad support for the protesters and against the bill. They even had a 'grey hair' march in solidarity with the youth. And I have only been reading about the incident on twitter and asian news sites SCMP, Nikkei, HKFP, ect.

The triad groups are pretty much hired guns that I suspect wouldn't have too many qualms about working for the US or as a false flag for the CCP.

Obviously it was a positive development for the US and I wouldn't put it past them to have orchestrated that explosive that was found, but at most they pushed a little on a movement that was happening anyways.

Posted by: UserFriendly | Jul 27 2019 18:40 utc | 13

...
"As that outcome was totally predictable one wonders why the Trump administration bothered to launch such nonsense. It will only make it more difficult to solve other problems, like North Korea or global trade, over which China has influence."
Posted by b on July 27, 2019 at 17:06 UTC

... not to mention the tired old fantasy of driving a wedge between China and Russia. The chance of that succeeding now is less than zero. It's also funny that China.gov has decided that the protesters shouldn't be treated too harshly because its not their fault that they're childish and impatient.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 27 2019 18:43 utc | 14

Posted by: Jay | Jul 27 2019 18:35 utc | 11

WSWS Socialist? I don't think so. These are the same so-called socialists who have been clamouring for Assad to be replaced! I think Lenin called these characters 'social imperialists'. The problem with these fucking Trotskyists is that it's all or nothing! They've been at it for decades, pushing the same, tired old ideas. The world, according to them is simple; either you're a 'real' revolutionary (ie a Trotskyist) or your a 'counter revolutionary'. And we wonder why the Western 'left' sucks!

Posted by: Barovsky | Jul 27 2019 19:02 utc | 15

PS: For more on this see Stephen Gowans piece here:

https://gowans.blog/2019/07/26/once-again-chomsky-and-achcar-provide-a-service-to-the-us-global-dictatorship/

Posted by: Barovsky | Jul 27 2019 19:09 utc | 16

Okay, so when these protests first started I wrote that this was U.S.-instigated and that Hong Kong was looking like the new Taiwan, and the usual Trump bootlickers pretended I was exaggerating.

I pretty much predicted Trump was a fraud, and a Zionist Neocon from minute one. Never mind. I'm vindicated...again and again.

Eat crow.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 19:12 utc | 17

I find it interesting how "pro-democracy activists" in Hong Kong, Venezuela, Nicaragua et al uniformly resort to vandalism and arson as a preferred tactic, with the encouragement of western politicians who warn the target nations to restrain the police. The so-called Black Bloc torched a single police car and sprayed some graffiti in Toronto some years back and the whole city entered a version of martial law for a few days. In Hong Kong, the protesters are conducting direct attacks on government institutions - legislature, police HQ, PRC offices - which pretty much anywhere else would be met by overt force to quell insurrectionary violence. The "pro-democracy activists" in the above mentioned countries in fact show little interest in democratic process.

In contrast, the protests in Puerto Rico have accomplished a fair amount with, as far as I know, very little vandalism or insurrectionary activity. Not much media coverage on that.

Posted by: jayc | Jul 27 2019 19:14 utc | 18

thanks b... you have struck the trolls nerve center, lol....

i see the cbc is trying to rustle up more animosity towards russia-putin with the protests from today in moscow..

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/moscow-election-protest-arrests-1.5227714

that and the selective coverage on the yellow vests protests, wenezuala protests and etc. etc. the usa empire sure is busy these days!

Posted by: james | Jul 27 2019 19:16 utc | 19

@6 NemesisCalling

Exactly ...how Trump would put it (if he could put a sentence together). But why should he bother with the effort when your ilk is at his service peddling his propaganda so nicely.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 19:20 utc | 20

Posted by: Jay | Jul 27 2019 18:35 utc | 11

WSWS is a Trotskyist website. Although they sometimes publish one or two useful articles, most of them are highly partial against really existing socialism (which they all call "Stalinism").

They define post-1978 China as "Stalinist capitalist restoration" (!!).

They are idealist socialists: they believe in a messianic world revolution which will overthrow all the capitalist classes at once and unite all of the working classes at once. Poor Trotsky: must be rolling in his grave.

Posted by: vk | Jul 27 2019 19:32 utc | 21

Shanghai mafia is running it's own 'Occupy' movement, to weaken the Hong Kong mafia, perhaps, but mainly to destroy the desire for protest in China for the benefit of all Globalists.

Pompeo is merely lining up the opposition to discredit itself. It is the same as was done for Putin, 'the oligarch fighter,' lol.

They are globalists on all fronts but the Hong Kong group is historically tied the Great Britain and trade in Opium. The Shanghai mafia is more nationalistic and less pathetic but what we are watching is yet another really big show.

This is technocracy and fascism in the modern world. I would tell the readership to grow up and stop being such pathetic suckers for the latest passion play but I now understand it is essentially pointless when you are always talking to a wall of hasbara psyop trolls. All or most of all the real people have learned their lessons and now moved on. All media are intelligence operations, full stop.

The Chinese merger of corporation and state, plus now via media and technology, the absolute conquest of human free will, is now almost complete.

This brothers and sisters, is the real fascism McCoy.

Posted by: C I eh? | Jul 27 2019 19:37 utc | 22

barovsky @15 and 16 Thanks for the links. I used to really like him, especially some of his past work, but I don't know what to think about him these days.

james @19, I noticed the same thing. We had CBC Newsworld on earlier today and I said to my wife "It's back to Russia! Russia! Russia!" Today CBC talked about the "Assad regime" bombing killing civilians but a week or two ago, when reporting on mass graves in Raqqa, they didn't bother to identify the (ir)responsible regime.

Posted by: spudski | Jul 27 2019 19:41 utc | 23

@vk #21

Speaking of trots, you might be interested in this:

Repressive Tolerance by Herbert Marcuse

https://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/60spubs/65repressivetolerance.htm

Posted by: C I eh? | Jul 27 2019 19:57 utc | 24

@20 circe

You are so...lol. Trump could give two shits about Hong Kong other than using them as a bargaining chip.

I am appealing to their philosophical desire to be more western. I believe, however, that the writing is on the wall and best go along with the big Whigs on the mainland if I was Hong Kong.

I am just pointing out another testament to Thucydides and his Melian Dialogue. It seems that despite my affinity for the antiwar posters here, they encourage by necessity the need for the weak to suffer what they must.

I always rage against the overlords, myself.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 27 2019 20:03 utc | 25

C I eh? @ 22
you are always talking to a wall of hasbara psyop trolls

All in all just another brick in the wall. The more I read, the more I am stunned by the system. The scope and breath of this stuff is stunning.

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone
All in all it's just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave those kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave those kids alone
All in all you're just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall

Wrong, do it again!
Wrong, do it again!
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding!
(Wrong, do it again!)
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
(Wrong, do it again!)
You! Yes! You behind the bike sheds! Stand still, laddie!
(If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?)
You! Yes! You behind the bike sheds! Stand still, laddie!

Posted by: dltravers | Jul 27 2019 20:03 utc | 26

Posted by: C I eh? | Jul 27 2019 19:37 utc | 22

If the existence of a mafia is the indicator of a fascist state, then you'll also have to worry about Japan (Yakuza), Taiwan (allied with the Hongkonger Triad), Hong Kong itself (Triad), Russia (Eurasiatic Mafia), Italy (where the term was created), USA (Kennedy's family had link with the American mafia) and essentially all Latin America (where narcotrafic is in all but name mafias).

Posted by: vk | Jul 27 2019 20:21 utc | 27

Stumpy @7--

LOL!!! You're likely correct based on the assessments made by the Empire, related stink tanks and academics I've read over the course of the year.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2019 20:31 utc | 28

It seems to be becoming a pattern, doesn't it? Syria, Venezuela, quite possibly France with the Yellow Vests, and now Hong Kong. The CIA seem to be losing their touch. There is always Brexit, I suppose.

Posted by: Tom | Jul 27 2019 20:43 utc | 29

China no longer needs HK the money center has moved to the Main Land. China can seat back and watch HK melt down,

Thanks b, stay cool. You need to find a basement to hide in;-)

Posted by: jo6pac | Jul 27 2019 20:52 utc | 30

Once again, pay close attention to who is carrying water for the western empire by regurgitation corporate media narratives about the color revolution attempt in Hong Kong. Do always suspect these individuals' posts now that they reveal themselves as tools of the empire.

How can you tell when protests are genuine and "organic"? The corporate mass media ignores them, downplays them, and when it cannot ignore them refers to them in disparaging and ridiculing terms.

How can you tell when protests are events that are manufactured by the empire in the fashion of free open air music festivals? Because the empire's corporate mass media will give them free advertising, exaggerate the attendance, and refer to the heavily marketed events in glowingly positive terms.

The above behaviors of the corporate mass media have so far proven to be infallible indicators of the legitimacy of protests and can be relied upon with the utmost confidence. Likewise, people who echo the empire's corporate mass media narratives reveal themselves as tools, witting or otherwise, of the empire, and their comments warrant deep skepticism.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 27 2019 20:53 utc | 31

As that outcome was totally predictable one wonders why the Trump administration bothered to launch such nonsense.

Simple. Washington DC's only option left is throwing a temper tantrum, tossing Molotov's everywhere, a scorched earth policy.


C I eh? | Jul 27 2019 19:37 utc | 22:

That's an interesting point of view. However, I remember some politician (forgot who it was) in an interview mentioning that if the stock exchanges in HK and Shanghai were to ever merge, it would make New York and London look like small potatoes (or something to that effect). I see all this ruckus as payback for going against The Empire.

Posted by: Ian | Jul 27 2019 20:53 utc | 32

The National Endowment for Democracy spends millions of dollars to subvert sovereign governments. You will notice that no "color revolutions" in Colombia, Honduras, or Chile. Vassal states is the US goa

Posted by: El Cid | Jul 27 2019 20:58 utc | 33

It's like they can't help themselves, they have to go meddling wherever they can out of pure spite.

Posted by: Axios | Jul 27 2019 21:03 utc | 34

@31 William gruff

You posit that the msm will always do the work of the hegemony. How do you know this? Is there not one iota of newsworthy events left in the world to cover or is it all propaganda? It seems farfetched to me, really. Why give time to Tulsi Gabbard in interviews then, etc.? The truth is is that the msm can not only show one side. That would be too obvious and so they have to show the other side in some respects, at least in order to denigrate it, and which it is debatable as to their varying levels of success with say the DJT phenomenon.

On the other hand, as with the yellow vests protests, I see very little coverage of the events in Hong Kong in the little media I absorb from corporate interests.

The former or the latter: one of the two is probably a moot point, but the fact remains that news still reaches us. Who are you to decry it as un-newsworthy?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 27 2019 21:06 utc | 35

@25 NemesisCalling

It seems that despite my affinity for the antiwar posters here, they encourage by necessity the need for the weak to suffer what they must.

I always rage against the overlords, myself.

Ahhh, quit with the selective hypocrisy! Methinks you weren't so quick to side with the weak suffering Assad.

And pray tell, where do you stand on protests in Moscow; better yet, when anti -fascist, i.e. anti-Trump riots break out WILL YOU STAND WITH THOSE SUFFERING HIS HEAVY-HANDED ZIONIST RULE?

No doubt you'll find a way to demonize the weak when they're Trump's victims to whitewash Trump.

If ever there was an overlord, it's Trump...so where's your rage???

Overlords exploit and inflate for regime change that ends up benefitting the filthy rich cartel. Trump is their benefactor.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 21:08 utc | 36

@25 NemesisCalling

It seems that despite my affinity for the antiwar posters here, they encourage by necessity the need for the weak to suffer what they must.

I always rage against the overlords, myself.

Ahhh, quit with the selective hypocrisy! Methinks you weren't so quick to side with the weak suffering Assad.

And pray tell, where do you stand on protests in Moscow; better yet, when anti -fascist, i.e. anti-Trump riots break out WILL YOU STAND WITH THOSE SUFFERING HIS HEAVY-HANDED ZIONIST RULE?

No doubt you'll find a way to demonize the weak when they're Trump's victims to whitewash Trump.

If ever there was an overlord, it's Trump...so where's your rage???

Overlords exploit and inflate for regime change that ends up benefitting the filthy rich cartel. Trump is their benefactor.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 21:11 utc | 37

@2 karlof1

Russia and China are ditching the dollar for bilateral trade but not necessarily using local currencies. I am not sure if those Euro transfers use SWIFT; I would guess so.

Per the Moscow Times.

"The dollar’s share fell to 45.7% in the first quarter of 2019, down from 75.1% in 2018. When both exports and imports of goods and services between Russia and China are considered, the share of the dollar also fell dramatically but still accounted for 55.7% of payments ($14.7 billion of a total turnover of $26.4 billion), RBC reported.

At the same time, the euro’s share in payments of Russian exports to China increased tenfold over the year from 0.7% in the first quarter of 2018 to 37.6% in the first quarter of 2019.
news

“The euro has become a safe haven for trade operations” between Russia and China, Oleg Remyga from the Eurasia program at Skolkovo Business School told RBC.

The euro is increasingly being used in payments for crude oil — Russia’s main export to China — . . ."

Posted by: Schmoe | Jul 27 2019 21:25 utc | 38

Couple of things from the piece seem to be lacking any citations or evidence:

"Hong Kong already has similar agreements with foreign countries."

What other countries? Are the agreements exactly the same in nature? How many foreign countries?

"....will pass [...] with a large majority...."

What is the basis for this prediction?

Posted by: KC | Jul 27 2019 21:26 utc | 39

You can always figure out where the truth lies when the beloved "directors of the revolution" show up to pass out cookies. You'd think Pompeo et al would have figured that one out by now.

Regarding the scenarios outlined by Passer by | Jul 27 2019 17:09 utc | 1: This seems very credible as Michael Hudson outlined in his piece in Counterpunch on July 22:

"Global warming is the second major existentialist threat. Blocking attempts to reverse it is a bedrock of American foreign policy, because it is based on control of oil. So the military, refugee and global warming threats are interconnected."

Hudson's main thesis is that the Petro-Dollar is instrumental in the continued operation of the Empire, and there will be no movement away from that as it would undercut dollar hegemony through the weakening of the oil market which the US has control. Therefore any movement to curb the climate catastrophe will not gain support by the US. It is a contradiction of existence.

Since China has little oil, and considers reliance on the same a vulnerability and consequently has spent 20 years in rare earth refinement industry development, it now controls 70 percent of the market. It will take quite a while for the West to catch up, as at least one industry consultant has pointed out that it takes about 20 years for an industry to go from an idea to production. These difference will underline the struggle between China and the US in the meantime You can be assured the US will not change its current course until the Petro-Dollar is annulled.

Time will tell whether China will be able to wean itself from coal. If not, climate change remediation will not matter.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07/22/u-s-economic-warfare-and-likely-foreign-defenses/

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/08/the-two-capitalisms-electric-batteries-as-a-case-study-in-us-magical-thinking-vs-chinese-vertical-integration.html


Posted by: Michael | Jul 27 2019 21:31 utc | 40

NemesisCalling @35

Your defense of the empire's mass media is charming, but since you are one of the obvious tools of empire that I was speaking of it is not unexpected.

The proof of what I said above is trivial: Go to any major news aggregation site (Google News is typical) with your browser in incognito mode and count the stories from major corporate sources concerning protests and tax your brain to try and determine if the articles are pro or con (critical/supportive of the protesters or the target of the protests).

Currently there are numerous articles on protests in Russia (five on the portal's main page, all of which are critical of the Russian government and supportive of the relatively tiny protests). Likewise there are numerous article supportive of the protesters in Hong Kong. Again, five on Google News' main page supporting the protesters but none voicing any criticism of them.

Meanwhile the gilets jaunes protests remain backpage news with no coverage on the main page of either the news aggregation portals or on the major news sites landing pages. Ongoing protests in Haiti, though, are not even getting backpage coverage in the western corporate mass media.

"Is there not one iota of newsworthy events left in the world to cover or is it all propaganda?"

There are certainly newsworthy events in the world, but coverage of them by the corporate mass media is 100% propaganda. They are all capitalist enterprises with pervasive interest in defending capitalism and the empire that capitalism has built. This concept isn't complicated.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 27 2019 21:37 utc | 41

From the landdestroyer blog entry:

The longer the US wastes time, resources, and energy on tired tactics like sponsored mobs and political subversion, the less time, resources, and energy it will have to adjust favorably to the new international order that will inevitably emerge despite Washington's efforts.

How true, and add to that list the money spent on military adventurism in the ME/Iran and destabilizing Central/South American countries. Where does all this money come from? These "non-profits" sure seem to have a lot of it if they can send over $1.5M to groups in Hong Kong alone within just two years.

This is all money that could be spent repairing and improving our flagging infrastructure, preparing our electrical grids for possible cyber or EMP attacks (solar panels/inverters/batteries in large population centers), and addressing the student debt crisis that is only getting worse. But we all know that big business and Wall Street/The City of London control every aspect of the U.S. government and every action taken by said government is in service to their short and long term goals.

Posted by: KC | Jul 27 2019 21:39 utc | 42

Jay (who had to use my screen name):

"WSWS Socialist? I don't think so. These are the same so-called socialists who have been clamouring for Assad to be replaced!"

Right, so the WSWS not liking Assad is the equivalent of Obama trying to overthrow Assad. Not. The WSWS also doesn't like Putin, but the WSWS doesn't support the neo-Nazis in Ukraine, or the US-German coup of early 2014.


In 2019, China is hardly some communist state, it's corpo-government state. Sometimes called a one party mercantilist state.

Your understanding of what the WSWS posts and its positions is more than just limited.

Posted by: Jay | Jul 27 2019 21:39 utc | 43

I work with many Chinese, both of mainland and HK descent.

A few RL observations

Chinese from HK seem to dislike Chinese from the mainland and vise versa. HK Chinese have generally better English. Mainland Chinese are typically less high strung and more jovial than their HK counterparts. I have been told by HK Chinese that the protests are selfish and not fully embraced by pop. They are seen as a nuisance, or a youthful excess. ML Chinese have told me the same as well as the opposite, they have also expressed the same sentiment as the Chinese pol in b's article.

Circe. Do you have an answer to my question from the OT? Got a prez that wasn't a Zioshill?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 27 2019 21:52 utc | 44

@ Schmoe who wrote
"
Russia and China are ditching the dollar for bilateral trade but not necessarily using local currencies. I am not sure if those Euro transfers use SWIFT; I would guess so.
"
I think you are incorrect about SWIFT being used for these transfers but can only provide the alternatives that exist but not usage.

In 2015 China started its CIPS alternative to SWIFT
Russia is just this year implementing its SPFS alternative
The EU implemented the INSTEX system this year in support of trade with Iran but it is being touted as to be more broadly used

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 27 2019 21:57 utc | 45

Schmoe @38--

Can't find the link now, but within the past week it was announced that a new clearing mechanism was being initiated in Russia's Far East to facilitate settling all bilateral trade between China and Russia in either Rubbles or Yuan matching a similar facility already opened by the PBC. The figures you cited were for the 1st Q; I cited hearsay 2nd Q figures which ought to be published soon. The point is both the dollar and its monopolistic trade and settlement mechanisms will soon be bypassed and further widened in scope to accommodate ever increasing amounts of global commercial transactions to the great detriment of the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 27 2019 21:57 utc | 46

I am not sure if it is possible to run an anti-empire theme by denying democratic representation. I don't think you are going to be able to defend the likes of Junius Ho as easily as the above, nor that locals, who to my view are almost entirely moderate, run on manipulation from Washington or wherever.

The only point I think that can be contested outright is the local election results, that is the layer that was open to universal suffrage, were pro-Beijing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Hong_Kong_legislative_election


Gives the figures under the tab "Elections of the Legislative Council" and it seems majority in absolute votes were outside of pro-Beijing. So I still stay with the notion that at the least it is Beijing that is overstepping the mark here, that this level of tension is not necessary. On the other hand, Beijing entered an agreement on handover that was going to be difficult for it to meet when compared to its own ideology, not that that is any excuse.

Posted by: gzon | Jul 27 2019 21:58 utc | 47

@ Posted by: Jay | Jul 27 2019 21:39 utc | 43

In 2019, China is hardly some communist state, it's corpo-government state. Sometimes called a one party mercantilist state.

China is not a "communist state". It is a "market socialist economy with Chinese characteristics". In fact, the very term "communist state" a contradiction in terms, since a communist society is, by definition, stateless (i.e. there can't be a communist country because country presupposes a State).

Note: the USSR never called itself "communist either". It's always defined itself as a socialist state.

The parties begun to call themselves "communist" after a schism in the world socialist movement at the end of the 19th Century, between the social-democrats (led by the German SPD) and the revolutionary socialists (led by the Russian Social-Democratic Party). Lenin then changed the Russian party's name to "communist" because he wanted to differentiate the revolutionary socialists from the social-democrats; his intention was to use the name as a reminder of the ultimate goal, not as a programatic objective. This happened before Marxism spread to Asia, so it appeared to the socialist Asians as normal thing. This tradition stuck and survives until our times.

The habit to call the USSR (and, by extent, the other countries which had a socialist revolution such as China, Cuba and Vietnam) a "communist state" comes from American Cold War-era propaganda. The Western European social-democrats obviously embraced for reasons I mentioned the paragraph before. This differentiation stuck until our times, and Bernie Sanders reinforces it by making it very clear that his definition of socialism is Denmark. The fact that the western Trotskysts made their raison d'etre to erase Stalinism from History or at least equate it with Nazifascism (that's why they also cinically accept the propaganda-theory of Totalitarianism) didn't help to clarify this misconception either.

So, long story short, we now have two definitions of socialism: the traditional one, which still survives in the socialist countries and in other countries with a socialist past such as Russia; and the the western one, which equates socialism to welfare state and the traditional definition as communism. This doesn't mean both have equal validity: the traditional definition is the scientifically correct one, the western being pure propaganda. Just becauce two opinions are equally stated in rhetorical terms doesn't make them equally valid.

Posted by: vk | Jul 27 2019 22:05 utc | 48

China's ownership of over a trillion in U.S. treasury and its control over rare earth refinement are not leverage it can easily use against U.S. imperialism as it could turn into a case of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Wearing down the hegemony of the dollar is the best strategy. The other two are weapons of last resort. However, China has enough leverage to sabotage the U.S. plan in regards to Iran, and even Venezuela, and so far it has done squat. This inaction is a huge mistake as China's sources of oil will
be U.S. compromised, and if greater conflict breaks out and the U.S. wants control, the first thing the U.S. will do is turn off the spigot.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 22:16 utc | 49

@37 circe

At the risk of derailing this thread into bickering, I will at least try to defend myself humorously.

Re: your opinion that I might not have supported Assad against team "Liberate Libya," check my posts from 2015 on. I was more enraged at the Obama presidency than the Trump, perhaps, but a bombing humanitarian campaign against Syria got my blood-boiling! So there certainly is more nuance to the situation in HK in my opinion than say Syria or Ukraine, or even Venezuela.

Re: why I don't heap on Trump. Because there are plenty to do that for me. My voice to decry him would be like the skinny white dude that I am trying to make myself be heard in a choir of big, black, Baptist ladies. But as it stands, I suppose I am with Pat Lang in that my opinion of China's tactics of selling their services in the global market for cheap, cheap, cheap belies the rosy treatment that many westerners here give it. The same with illegal immigration. So Trump is not all bad to me. Hell, he hasn't started a campaign against Iran or Venezuela, yet, so there's that too.

On a side note, do you ever get tired of fixated and frothing at DJT?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 27 2019 22:20 utc | 50

@46 karlof1

Thanks for clarifying. I hope you are correct re; use of local currencies, but I believe that new clearance system is very cumbersome but still practical for large transactions.

@49 circe

I made the same comment a while ago, but China is breaking sanctions per a Bloomberg article published three days ago. Also, Malaysia (maybe it was Singapore) has impounded two Chinese owned ships over the past week for violating Iran sanctions by transporting liquified energy products.

Posted by: Schmoe | Jul 27 2019 22:24 utc | 51

@44 Tannenhouser

Trump being the worst Zio-shill of all so far!

Posted by: Circe | Jul 27 2019 22:30 utc | 52

Tannenhouser | Jul 27 2019 21:52 utc | 44:

Chinese from HK seem to dislike Chinese from the mainland and vise versa.

Normal. There will always be one region disliking another within a nation.

Posted by: Ian | Jul 27 2019 22:37 utc | 53

@53 Ian

Thanks for your sanity, and your perspective on this storm in a Chinese teacup. Yes, regions within countries have their own attitude towards other regions. And HK was tutored by British hypocrisy for a century and a half.

If you haven't already seen this, I think you will enjoy this short (9 min) clip from Martin Jacques on Hong Kong. He points to the economic structure and the structure of governance in HK. In both cases they are the imperial model, where there is little representation of the people, where policy direction came from London rather than being concocted locally, and where a few oligarchs rule the economy and have no capacity to innovate or evolve:

Martin Jacques' view on the Hong Kong development dilemma

Jacques actually criticizes Beijing for being too lenient towards Hong Kong. With its "One Nation, Two Systems" policy - which it has adhered to scrupulously - China has also allowed Hong Kong to wallow in its own lack of any spirited imperative. In consequence, many in HK look with envy across the water to Shenzhen, and wonder where their own rise to glory will come from. The structure that Jacques describes is not going to produce it.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 27 2019 23:19 utc | 54

@53Ian. Agreed. Think Québec and...... lol most of the rest of Canada. Like my post said just RL observations from RL conversations.

@Grieved. With the utmost respect....I would hope that RL observations/experiences weren't considered insane.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 27 2019 23:42 utc | 55

Sleepy @ 5 said;"I don't doubt that Hong Kong residents have legitimate gripes, but like a tapeworm attaching itself to the host, almost any domestic unrest in any US "adversary" is usually tapped into by the US for its own purposes.

Posted by: sleepy | Jul 27 2019 18:20 utc | 5

True! And repeated around the globe often....

Posted by: ben | Jul 28 2019 0:06 utc | 56

Posted by: Ron Sizely | Jul 27 2019 18:06 utc | 3
Completely with you Ron. First, Hong Kong is China's only international financial center, so to call it insignificant is uninformed: it will take at least another generation and a change in China's currency access before Shanghai reaches the status of Hong Kong. Second, there is no appetite for leaving China, Hong Kong is part of China, the dispute is about the speed at which the two are merging and respect for the 50 years agreement. Three, there is no democracy in HK: The pro-democracy politicians were voted into the Legislature by the 5000 or so HK individuals who have been chosen to vote, but even then they were banned by Beijing because they wouldn't swear allegiance to Beijing. Four: People have not benefited from China, their lives have got worse: Rent controls were abolished, public housing is not being built and the locals are being discarded in favour of a select 150 mainlanders brought in every day to take the top jobs (lawyers, finance etc), bringing mainland corruption to what was once a fairly clean HK. Then you have the huge wave of mainland tourists allowed to visit HK, crowding the city out with illmannered and discourteous tourists swarming around places like TST and Mong Kok, places close to the new high speed train terminal. The business men who used to run HK for its own interests are now running the city for Beijing: even though I think that economic reasons are not the main drive behind the demonstrations.
As for independence: Ask yourself why Taiwan, which has been ruled by the independence party for the last 3 years, has still not declared independence: Maybe the local politicians use it as a threat to keep back the worst aspects of Beijing? Maybe nobody really wants to be independent, they just don't want to be invaded by uncontrollable corruption?
As for the violence, anyone with any knowledge of the HK Chinese will know that this is not their way. It is total ignorance to think that the HK people would support violence against their own police. Even the triads who carried out the train invasions appear to have had second thoughts afterwards, releasing the recording about them "not getting paid for the job".
I am not saying the US is not involved, they are unlikely to resist such an opportunity, but the US has no real knowledge of the local HK population and could never influence the HK people to turn violent. Most HK people are very proud to be Chinese, they are not looking to be American even though they will use America to get ahead. It looks like the increase in violence is foreign interference as a signal to Beijing, but it will not have the support of the locals: 2 million marched against the extradition law, a few thousand are involved in the riots, there is no comparison.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 0:15 utc | 57

@ 33

No doubt in my mind that the ¨where is the PetroCaribe money" movement in Haiti
is orchestrated from abroad.

The internal propaganda is too well organised, the events too well staged to be spontaneous.

What is the aim? Apparently to depose the actual President but maybe to destroy the
Constitution also.

This would favor the establishment of a more presidential regime in such a way that a
pro whomever is directing it would facilitate access to Haiti's riches.

A number of entities could be behind them, States, Corporations, Individuals. Who knows?

As the wolf said to the lamb he was planning to eat: If it's not you then someone close to you.
So I would suspect Empire or some entity within ( and with the blessings of ) the Empire.

Could be a Wall Street dweller. Could hail from the City? Both places with converging interests
and Global might.

The Haitian situation is to be added to the attempted "color revolutions" in HK, Nicaragua,
Venezuela, Iran, and numerous attempts at destabilisation of Russia, China, the Ukraine, Georgia
and others too numerous to list.

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 28 2019 0:15 utc | 58

"The Haitian situation is to be added to the attempted "color revolutions" in HK, Nicaragua, ..."

Wrong. If this were actually the case then the protests would be getting lots of positive and supportive coverage in the western mass media and the Jovenel Moïse government would be universally referred to as a "regime" in the corporate mass media with an intense focus upon the violence being committed by the military and police. None of these of these are the case so it is clear that the protests in Haiti are actually organic and not being instigated by the empire.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 28 2019 0:59 utc | 59

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 27 2019 21:52 utc | 44
"I have been told by HK Chinese that the protests are selfish and not fully embraced by pop. They are seen as a nuisance, or a youthful excess."

I marched in the second HK rally, there were a huge number of people there: There were all sorts in the rally, from teenagers to older folk in their 80s: I was in the queue for the gents in Victoria Park before the march and most people in front of me were old folks. It took us over 90 minutes just to get out of Victoria Park in Tin Hau where we had collected ready for the start and we were near the front:: The crowds comming from other parks and collection points were preventing us from joining the main stream of the march. After joining the main stream of the march, we discovered after a couple of hours that the march was actually progressing down three big parallel streets - the main street had come to a standstill so it was over-spilling into the parallel streets. My wife and I stopped at a few pubs along the way - it was a hot day - and stopped at a great restaurant for dinner in Wan Chai - we had been exercising - rejoining the march in between breaks. Eventually we got to Admiralty where the march passed the road that turns off to the Legislature, the vast majority of people did not make the turn to the legislature but marched straight forwards.

Your sources are not accurate: This was a real mix of people from all over the HK SAR, it was a festival atmosphere, all chants were in Cantonese (a great way to learn a bit of Cantonese), there was no litter left on the streets, the place was kept clean by the protesters. HK locals love HK, they do not want it ruined by idiots fighting and most believe that any vandalism should result in punishment for the offenders.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:16 utc | 60

Yeah, this is bs. I watched the storming of the government office on twitter, that was organic. All opinion polling shows broad support for the protesters and against the bill. They even had a 'grey hair' march in solidarity with the youth. And I have only been reading about the incident on twitter and asian news sites SCMP, Nikkei, HKFP, ect.

The triad groups are pretty much hired guns that I suspect wouldn't have too many qualms about working for the US or as a false flag for the CCP.

Obviously it was a positive development for the US and I wouldn't put it past them to have orchestrated that explosive that was found, but at most they pushed a little on a movement that was happening anyways.

Posted by: UserFriendly | Jul 27 2019 18:40 utc | 13


The silent majority of Hongkongers actually supports the extradition law, at least 700,000 signed a petition to show their support.

The triads, instead of hired guns of CCP, were probably real gangsters doing their "job" for those shops that had paid them protection fee, because of the disruptions in business by the protests.

The U.S. could not do a damn thing in Venezuela, what's the chance that they can achieve anything in Hong Kong?

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 1:18 utc | 61

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 1:18 utc | 61

To quote the article" "Over 700,000 people signed a petition supporting the fugitive amendment bill, according to an alliance."

I am not surprised by this, the mainland has a scheme which allows 150 people to emigrate to HK every day, it has been running since 1997: (2019-1997) * 365 * 150 = 1,204,500. Add to that all the individuals who have moved for other reasons, such as marriage, and there are quite a few mainlanders in HK. Mainlanders do not speak the local language and do not have the same loyalty to HK. The emigration scheme is part of the problem as most of those immigrants are people associated with the Chinese Communist Party - maybe not members, but they got the ticket to emigrate, so they are viewed favourably: HK locals see them as part of the problem!

Maybe this petition shows that HK locals are right to be worried!

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:28 utc | 62

...

You posit that the msm will always do the work of the hegemony. How do you know this? Is there not one iota of newsworthy events left in the world to cover or is it all propaganda? It seems farfetched to me, really. Why give time to Tulsi Gabbard in interviews then, etc.? The truth is is that the msm can not only show one side. That would be too obvious and so they have to show the other side in some respects, at least in order to denigrate it, and which it is debatable as to their varying levels of success with say the DJT phenomenon.

...

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jul 27 2019 21:06 utc | 35


Have you ever heard of Operation Mockingbird? I highly suspect that some new version of it is running furiously in the background.

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 1:28 utc | 63

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 1:18 utc | 61
Another interesting factor raised by your post raises is that of kissing ass: One grievance that the HK locals have is that the local business community is too busy kissing Beijing ass. There is a small minority of HK locals, mostly business folk, who will sign up to such a petition - handing over their HK ID numbers - in the hope of being recognised by Beijing as worthy of preferential treatment. Beijing is authoritarian and corrupt, so having evidence of your support for Beijing can go a long way in business circles.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:39 utc | 64

@ Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:16 utc | 60

But your account doesn't eliminate the hybrid warfare hypothesis. On the contrary, the confirm it.

In TC-18-01 -- the American manual to unconventional warfare (UW), it states that:

WILL OF THE POPULATION

1-15. The population must possess not only the desire to resist but also the will to bear the significant
hardships associated with repressive countermeasures by the government or occupying power. Populations
that the regime subjugates or indoctrinates for long periods are less likely to possess the will required to
sustain a prolonged and difficult struggle. Populations living under repressive conditions generally either
retain their unique religious, cultural, and ethnic identity or begin to assimilate with the regime out of an
instinct to survive. Planners need to distinguish between the population’s moral opinion of their
“oppressors” and their actual willingness to accept hardship and risk on behalf of their values and beliefs.
Populations recently overtaken by an occupying military force have a very different character than those
that have had to survive for decades under an oppressive regime.

1-16. Information activities that increase dissatisfaction with the hostile regime or occupier and portray the
resistance as a viable alternative are important components of the resistance effort. These activities can
increase support for the resistance through persuasive messages that generate sympathy among populations.

1-17. In almost every scenario, resistance movements face a population with an active minority supporting
the government and an equally small militant faction supporting the resistance movement (Figure 1-2). For
the resistance to succeed, it must convince the uncommitted middle population, which includes passive
supporters of both sides, to accept it as a legitimate entity. A passive population is sometimes all a well-
supported insurgency needs to seize political power. As the level of support for the insurgency increases,
the passive majority will decrease.

[...]

CIVIL AFFAIRS SUPPORT TO THE SEVEN PHASES
OF UNCONVENTIONAL WARFARE

3-42. CA forces are capable of providing support to all seven phases of a UW campaign. CMO planners
and CA forces are well equipped to assist SFODs in developing the factors that make up the operational
environment of UW operations, in achieving the support or neutrality of various segments of society, or
influencing the JSOA. All Civil Affairs operations (CAO) may support UW, although the most important
role of CAO is facilitating the swift transition of power from the resistance forces to a legitimate
government after the cessation of hostilities.

In other words, it's not that the USA creates, ex nihilo, the inner contradictions of a country (which indeed exist in any country -- the USA itself included); what they do is to take those domestic contradictions and magnify them with propaganda warfare and hot warfare resources (color revolutions and guerrilla, low intensity warfare).

For example, you may have a young son who hates you because you deny him ice cream (you're afraid he's going to get cavities, diabetes, obesity etc. etc.). To wage an hybrid warfare on you would be for me to tell him you're doing it not because you're taking care of his health, but because you want to see him sad and then give him a loaded gun. Sure, many things may happen after that: he may kill you, you may kill him, he may heavily wound you and vice versa; you can neutralize his weapon before anything graver happens, or he may not shoot you simply because, deep down, he still loves you. Indeed, hybrid war has unpredictable results -- but the selling point of it is that it is low cost, low risk to the USA: even if it fails, it can be tried again and again simply because the American military is, today, the master of logistics and can reach any corner of the world while the other countries can't touch it in a non-MAD scenario.

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2019 2:00 utc | 65

HK is fake and gay, an international airport, stock market and a place to launder your money. Honkies should emigrate to anglo-white coutries if becoming eunuchs for the nordic man is their greatest dream in life. It does suit them well and they'll be relieve without the burden of useless genitals.

Posted by: Aka akasaka | Jul 28 2019 2:18 utc | 66

Posted by: vk | Jul 28 2019 2:00 utc | 65

Everything is possible, what should colour your views is the likelyhood of it happening. You cannot rule out anything. Let's start at the beginning of your theory: How did the USA persuade Carrie Lam to table the Extradition Bill in the first place? And if the answer is that they were just waiting for "something" bad to be tabled, then they are not in control, they are not manipulating the situation, they are observers.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 2:24 utc | 67

@55 Tannenhouser

No, nothing so diametric as implying insanity in others simply from applauding sanity where I find it. I hadn't read your comment, and I had to go back to find your reference. I can't place who or what RL is - sorry the reference is lost on me. But I wasn't referring to anything except the perspective that one region having an attitude about another region means nothing more than it would anywhere else in the world.

~~

While I'm making this comment I may as well address the thread in general and say that I don't accept any of the claims in this thread made by anyone that this is a majority popular movement in Hong Kong. If it were that, it would feel different in its very bones, and most people here would strongly support it. I agree totally with b's article. The US is interfering and magnifying things, as usual, and failing.

What is clear to me, is that Hong Kong is a little bit lost, suffering from the ghosts of British sensibility, and with no forward vision for itself. It should indeed, as Jacques suggests, seek closer integration with the mainland, in order to experience a superior form of democratic representation, and the liberating vision of actually having a future.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 28 2019 2:37 utc | 68

59 William Gruf

Color revolutions have been tested in Haiti in 1985/86when a population favoring the incumbent
at 80% were driven to overthrow and subsequent despair by the population.

From 1986 onward, Haiti has experienced a negative growth rate. TO THIS VERY DAY.

I cannot believe that you have better information on that situation unless you are a State Dept
operative or a CIA asset.

cheers

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 28 2019 2:48 utc | 69

Grieved | Jul 28 2019 2:37 utc | 68:

Thanks for the YT link. BTW, RL = Real Life.

Posted by: Ian | Jul 28 2019 2:50 utc | 70

@ vk 65

You are not only saying a non specific CIA manual confirms it's own involvement, but that the totatility of that occuring (or majority as we are talking democratic values here) is product of its approach. In other words no event is organic if it fits the description of a circumstance that the CIA might use or fabricate. You understand you are busy justifying dictatorship, denying (in this case Hong Kongers) the credibility or ability of own opinion. Do you really understand what you are transmitting as message ? It is exactly opposite of what you might pretend to represent. You could take this one step further,though it won't be appreciated here, by saying b is using that tactic to subvert western opinion by making western method seem oppressive. You can go round in circles endlessly like this, and you call it confirmation.

Posted by: gzon | Jul 28 2019 3:02 utc | 71

Gruff:

I should have said subsequent and ongoing despair...

No end is sight.

Posted by: carlD | Jul 28 2019 3:04 utc | 72

Grieved @68--

The Hong Kong links to Outlaw US Empire regime change NGOs are overt as revealed by b and further on this thread; so yeah, it's as you write. My opinion seconds that of many: Hong Kong had the opportunity to become another Singapore in tandem with Macau--are there riots there, NO!--and blew it totally. There was no Hong Kong-based vision for what to do after reunification. It should've been no secret as to what direction PRC was going to go economically and what its plans were. These "protesters" want to be independent so they say, but I doubt very much if they could articulate what their future plans are to keep Hong Kong's economy vibrant and the relations they propose to have with their biggest market right next door. Without those sorts of visions there's no way the "movement" is legitimate.

If you're going to organize a genuine Movement, you must have an agenda, a manifesto, a plan, a vision of what you want to accomplish, particularly if you win and gain power. I've written down ideas and solutions for specific problems, analytical essays and such--but I've never written a Revolutionary Manifesto to propose to the masses. (Big Lightbulb overhead!) It could be framed as an answer to this WaPost op/ed: "We Are in Our Articles of Confederation Moment: Our national legislature no longer functions," which I linked to yesterday. We know what's wrong, but the solution and change in direction needed don't fit soundbites. Nice homework assignment for Political Revolution 101.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2019 3:29 utc | 73

Aspnaz. That's exciting. I think I agree with Grieved here @68. Thanks for the clarity btw Grieved and thanks Ian for your help.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 28 2019 3:29 utc | 74

When you're old, you can be fearless:

"Malaysian PM: #Israel ‘the main cause of #terrorism in world’"

And can say what needs to be said. While I applaud, I disagree; IMO the Outlaw US Empire is both the main cause and most involved globally and with impunity.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2019 3:39 utc | 75

@Petri Krohn #12: Please ask Tony Cartalucci to enable anonymous commenting on his LiveJournal blog The New Atlas.

Posted by: S | Jul 28 2019 3:50 utc | 76

What a shame that pro-democracy and pro-liberty movements get tainted by association with US government opportunism.

Posted by: Vaughn L. Treude | Jul 28 2019 3:59 utc | 77

apsnaz @67

Although you seem to completely misstate vk @65's argument, your query regarding "How did the USA persuade Carrie Lam to table the Extradition Bill in the first place?" may not be as daft as it first appears.

In 2018, Hong Kong man Chan Tong-kai, 19, took his girlfriend Poon Hiu-wing, 20, on a Valentine’s Day trip to Taiwan. While there he strangled her, stuffed her body in a suitcase and dumped it near a subway station in Taipei. After he returned to Hong Kong, he was safe from extradition to a Taiwanese court. This horrific incident led to protests in Hong Kong and was the impetuous for the extradition bill.

While I'm not suggesting Chan was acting at the behest of the CIA, it would certainly fit with the hybrid war scenario for the US to use its assests to amplify the pro-extradition protests inspired by the murder, while also preparing a Colour Revolution in response to the inevitable introduction of an extradition bill.

The NYT described it as "The Murder Case that lit the fuse in Hong Kong", hate to link to them but here goes:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/world/asia/hong-kong-murder-taiwan-extradition.html

Posted by: Paora | Jul 28 2019 4:15 utc | 78

@ Paora who wrote in response to apsnaz
"
While I'm not suggesting Chan was acting at the behest of the CIA, it would certainly fit with the hybrid war scenario for the US to use its assests to amplify the pro-extradition protests inspired by the murder, while also preparing a Colour Revolution in response to the inevitable introduction of an extradition bill.
"

We are not suppose to think that deeply.....grin Thanks for that

I agree with what Grieved wrote in a comment above and which I have repeated below
"
What is clear to me, is that Hong Kong is a little bit lost, suffering from the ghosts of British sensibility, and with no forward vision for itself. It should indeed, as Jacques suggests, seek closer integration with the mainland, in order to experience a superior form of democratic representation, and the liberating vision of actually having a future.
"
Hong Kong has been used as a tool like the US used Puerto Rico as to attempt to show up Cuba.

South Korea is going to go through the same transition, given the opportunity.

Democratic values are BS when the money in your pocket and bank account is not worth the digits or paper printed on......it has no intrinsic value like before 1971 and in reality now represents DEBT maintained by FAITH

And China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and other have lost FAITH in the fiat DEBT of the West because it is connected to nothing of intrinsic value.

This is the reality that many are not prepared for but is coming soon. The West is being forced to return to a money system that is not FIAT.

This will clarify my lifeblood claim about finance and focus folks on the perfidy of private fiat money systems


Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 28 2019 4:50 utc | 79

vk @ 48:

"China is not a 'communist state'. It is a 'market socialist economy with Chinese characteristics'."

--As long as they don't call it "fascism", it's all ok...

Circe @ 49:

--China won't use leverage they might have since that would mean putting "ideology" (which they cannot hold in their hands) over capital (which they can). [Irony all around.]

Posted by: Anacharsis | Jul 28 2019 5:21 utc | 80

@WilliamGruff

Thanks for that reality about Haiti..a 'shithole country'.....

Posted by: KC | Jul 28 2019 5:25 utc | 81

...

I am not surprised by this, the mainland has a scheme which allows 150 people to emigrate to HK every day, it has been running since 1997: (2019-1997) * 365 * 150 = 1,204,500. Add to that all the individuals who have moved for other reasons, such as marriage, and there are quite a few mainlanders in HK. Mainlanders do not speak the local language and do not have the same loyalty to HK. The emigration scheme is part of the problem as most of those immigrants are people associated with the Chinese Communist Party - maybe not members, but they got the ticket to emigrate, so they are viewed favourably: HK locals see them as part of the problem!

...

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:28 utc | 62


1,204,500 is only about 15% of the Hong Kong population. If the protesters truly believe that they are the majority, they can start their own petition, as well as protesting in the streets. The fact that they haven't done so makes me a little bit suspicious if they are the real majority, even among the 6 million or so native Hongkongers.


...

Maybe this petition shows that HK locals are right to be worried!

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:28 utc | 62


Divide and conquer, exaggerating the difference between different groups of Hongkongers?

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 5:26 utc | 82

...

Another interesting factor raised by your post raises is that of kissing ass: One grievance that the HK locals have is that the local business community is too busy kissing Beijing ass. There is a small minority of HK locals, mostly business folk, who will sign up to such a petition - handing over their HK ID numbers - in the hope of being recognised by Beijing as worthy of preferential treatment. Beijing is authoritarian and corrupt, so having evidence of your support for Beijing can go a long way in business circles.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 1:39 utc | 64


Well, I guess Hong Kong businessmen are pragmatic. I can't really blame them. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the protesters haven't started their own petition yet and are concentrating on street demonstrations only so far.

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 5:35 utc | 83

apsnaz

Naive. Either the naïveté is the product of blind idealism or it's a pretence to make a more convincing argument on the so-called purity of the revolution emerging in HK.

You know what I don't trust? HK is like the victim of a long kidnapping by the West for many years and the locals are now suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, believing somehow that the kidnappers had the right idea and did what they did for the locals benefit. Now it's time to see the kidnappers for who they really are. Unfortunately for the locals and fortunately for China, the end goal is way more important than the capitalist utopia the West uses as an inducement for rebellion.

vk gets it.

@50 NemesisCalling

Well at least you came clean about your affection for Trump. Who's fixated? The one who can see no wrong in their brand of messiah, or the one who sees, period!????

Yeah, yeah it's what I said, you supported the Assad side over the suffering weak Syrian rebels before you supported the suffering weak rebel side in HK. Trump's rebels over Obama's, riiiight? Cause there's a difference, riiiight? NOT.

Who cares how China stiffs the West when the West gets away with murder! The point isn't to make China clean up its act in order to trust its power In an imperfect world, the point is a CHECK ON POWER. I don't expect anything from China except that it act as the wall that stops imperial hegemony, and it's pretty well-positioned to do so.

If you wanna compare China's corruption vs the ZioAnglo Empire's corruption, that's a whole other circular discussion I'm not interested in having.

I want China to be the means to the END OF THE ZIOANGLO EMPIRE. Get it? That's the big picture I care about.

Regarding the migration thing. Trump is an old man who wishes he were young again, but he won't get that either. You can't reverse reality and you can't fight karma. So Trump, the latest Zionist stooge, can't admit that the rest of the world suffered a massive Muslim migration thanks to wars instigated by the ZioAnglo Empire led by U.S. and so the U.S. must in turn suffer its own massive migration of the latino kind. Nothing will reverse it; it's reality, it's karma, and so it's bigger and stronger than Trump. He'll die a disillusioned man if he thinks a wall and cages will deter the inevitable changing demography.

Finally, Anacharsis

Yes, despite that somewhat cynical outlook on China's imperfections, I'm counting on China focusing on survival over blind capital ambition, therefore, hopefully reclaiming more of its lost ideology, as its survival is hydrocarbon dependent which will require it to flex some geopolitical strategy over the ZioAnglo Empire.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 28 2019 6:07 utc | 84

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2019 3:39 utc | 75

Israel is the main cause of terrorism in the world.

The US is the main tool of terrorism in the world.

Posted by: Noname | Jul 28 2019 6:11 utc | 85

The seeds for these color revolutions are similar to sleeper terrorist cells. Assets are in place, and more are held in reserve not for "specific" events to unfold, but for general societal discontent to rise to a certain level, at which time the assets will be mobilized to help organize and focus the discontent, ultimately for the purpose of destabilizing the offending nation state.

In Syria, for example, water shortages led to civil unrest. Western powers could have spent those billions of dollars on desalination plants, diplomatic pressure on Turkey to release more water from their reservoirs, and helped the country remain stable through a tough time. Instead the Western Powers spent billions of dollars hiring and arming mercenaries to collapse the Syrian Nation, along with a massive propaganda effort geared at demonizing Assad and the Syrian Government.


Posted by: Hassaan | Jul 28 2019 6:18 utc | 86

Proof Government & Cops Are Behind "Islamic Terror"
https://www.henrymakow.com/2019/07/Proof-Government-Cops-Are-Behind-Islamic-Terror.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf6aZCERrKo

Posted by: Noname | Jul 28 2019 6:18 utc | 87

@71gzon

I wonder what all those tens or hundreds of thousands of dead Syrian rebels think of the organic protest started by a few thousands that they then surrendered to the ZioAnglos and their terrorist collaborators ISIS just to achieve the revolutionary noteriety and humanitarian assistance that led them to an early grave? I'm sure it's a cautionary tale for Hong Kong.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 28 2019 6:29 utc | 88

Calling Martin Lee a US stooge is BS. A true Patriot (HK) if there ever was one. I don't deny the US has a hand in fueling the fire, but the HK people (bottom 90%) have some legitimate grievances.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 28 2019 6:35 utc | 89

@85 Noname

They should put those two sentences on billboards across America. Then Americans will know who's riding them.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 28 2019 6:35 utc | 90

@89Pft

I don't deny the US has a hand in fueling the fire, but the HK people (bottom 90%) have some legitimate grievances.

Wait. I thought it was one issue. The extradition issue? I wonder if Syrians had legitimate issues too?

Oh my!

Posted by: Circe | Jul 28 2019 6:47 utc | 91

@ William Gruff 31

Once again, pay close attention to who is carrying water for the western empire by regurgitation corporate media narratives about the color revolution attempt in Hong Kong. Do always suspect these individuals' posts now that they reveal themselves as tools of the empire.

Right on the money...

Bernhard's article has hit every nail squarely on the head...and driven it home with gusto...

Yet we see a number of quite ridiculous posts taking issue with the basic premise...'Organic' my arse...the color revolution fingerprints are all over this bullshit...

I see James has also noted the unusually frenetic troll activity...

They will of course end up sorely disappointed...China is not Georgia or Ukraine where their stunts can have some effect...come to think of it, even there the old tricks mostly now just provoke a collective yawn from the target populace...LOL

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 28 2019 6:53 utc | 92

OT, but facts first, please...
The Turkish journalist Can Dündar now works for the German MSM newspaper ZEIT, a transatlantic tool. He is very critical about Erdogan.
https://www.zeit.de/2019/31/zensur-tuerkei-pressefreiheit-medien-journalismus
In English:
https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2019-07-27---censorship-in-turkey--when-the-censor-is-censored-.HJQ9GOKzH.html
What happened? It is claimed that 3 Turkish journalists have been dismissed by Sputniknwes Turkey after having done an interview with Davutoglu and that this is censorship. Dündar uses the case to illustrate that a Russian medium courts Erdogan and so does Putin, as he suggests.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Jul 28 2019 7:12 utc | 93

I don't want my government starting revolutions that lead to wars for regime change I'm not free to stop. The ZioAnglo imperialists corrupt everything they touch.

Let's face it, Revolution has become a dirty word.

The Revolution should be AGAINST the Zio Anglo Empire and not a source to expand its hegemonic reach!

Aye! Che is turning in his grave at this perversion.

Posted by: Circe | Jul 28 2019 7:15 utc | 94

Circe

Re: my somewhat cynical (I would say ironic, but I won't quibble) outlook on China's (your word:) imperfections: any "ideology" has been lost (more discarded than lost, really) last century and China is now the epitome of pragmatist--pragmatism is a stage significantly less coherent than ideologically-driven; therefore, decadence and dissolution come next--then it's just a matter of time and how many band-aids they can come up with. If you add this to the fact that if China erodes the dollar, they also erode the value of the money in their own pocket (since they own a rather large percentage of that corporation)...logically, I just don't see how that horse is gonna run.

Posted by: Anacharsis | Jul 28 2019 9:50 utc | 95

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 28 2019 3:29 utc | 73
Hong Kong had the opportunity to become another Singapore in tandem with Macau--are there riots there, NO!--and blew it totally.

The public record of the negotiations are that Hong Kong never has the opportunity to be anything other than a part of China. If what you say is true then please provide the evidence, maybe a credible supporting record, so that the rest of us can understand why the public record is at fault. Maybe evidence that China offered that opportunity to Hong Kong and who made that offer?

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 10:01 utc | 96

Posted by: difficult bird | Jul 28 2019 5:35 utc | 83
"Well, I guess Hong Kong businessmen are pragmatic."

Indeed. The Chinese are nothing if not pragmatic. They really don't go into all this conspiracy theory crap the the white guys are addicted to: difference in culture.

Two million people are prepared to go marching on the street, yet you are suspicious that they are not genuine because they have not signed a petition? Sorry, I don't follow this logic: You are suspicious of anti-government protesters who will not put their ID card numbers on a petition in an country rules by a corrupt, authoritarian government? And why is a petition more convincing than 2m people in the street?

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 10:16 utc | 97

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 28 2019 2:37 utc | 68
"I don't accept any of the claims in this thread made by anyone that this is a majority popular movement in Hong Kong. If it were that, it would feel different in its very bones, and most people here would strongly support it."

It cannot be real because you think it would "feel" different? Do you know anything about Hong Kong, have you spoken to the people of HK about why they are protesting? Do you know anything of the HK culture? Do you know anything other than what you have been fed by the western media and the equally biased alt-media?

Why would 2 million people come out onto the street for an extradition bill? Seems a trivial almost edge-case reason? Do you know why? How did the USA organize that? Please put some meat on your argument, at the moment it is a skeleton in a cupboard and has no merit except to those who can't help themselves because they so want it to be true.

Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 28 2019 10:33 utc | 98

Posted by: Pft | Jul 28 2019 6:35 utc | 89

Calling Martin Lee a US stooge is BS. A true Patriot (HK) if there ever was one. I don't deny the US has a hand in fueling the fire, but the HK people (bottom 90%) have some legitimate grievances.

Not vis-à-vis China they don't. The primary legitimate grievances are impossibly high housing costs (which many of the poorer residents of HK are not affected by, as they have access to the city's massive public housing programme) and poor work conditions in the form of low wages and absurdly long working hours. Those things have nothing to do with China.

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Jul 28 2019 10:41 utc | 99

Posted by: KC | Jul 27 2019 21:26 utc | 39

Couple of things from the piece seem to be lacking any citations or evidence:
"Hong Kong already has similar agreements with foreign countries."
What other countries? Are the agreements exactly the same in nature? How many foreign countries?

You are thinking of Cap 503 of the Laws of Hong Kong, which has been in effect since April 1997. You can check the schedules to the Ordinance for the information you want. (This stuff is online.)

As it happens, China would be treated more restrictively than other places already covered by Cap 503. Under that law, for a fugitive to be returned from HK in respect of a particular offence, the offence must attract a minimum sentence of two years. In the case of China, the minimum sentence would have been seven years.

Plus, there can be no return for political offenses, capital offenses, and offenses which are not also offences under the Laws of Hong Kong.

You should be able to see from this that people are lying when they claim that the extradition law would have put Hong Kong critics of China at risk of extradition to the Mainland. That would not have been possible under the law.

Posted by: Herr Ringbone | Jul 28 2019 10:51 utc | 100

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