Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 20, 2019
Putin Confirms: Sergei Skripal Wanted To Go Back To Russia

Filmmaker Oliver Stone recently interviewed the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin. The transcript was published yesterday evening. Most of the interview is about Ukraine. A separate piece will cover that country. There is also a passage about the U.S. election.

But the most interesting bits from Putin are about the Skripal affair.

The British and Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia were impaired by some chemical substance in early March 2018 in Salisbury. Britain blamed the incident on Russia. CIA Director Gina Haspel, a former CIA station chief in London, used fake pictures of the incident to deceive Trump and to push him to kick out 60 Russian diplomats. (The NYT later ran cover for Haspel.)

We have speculated since the very beginning of the Skirpal case that the 'former' spy wanted to go back to Russia. Putin now confirms, to my knowledge for the first time, that this was the case (underline added):

Oliver Stone: What has happened to Skripal? Where is he?

Vladimir Putin: I have no idea. He is a spy, after all. He is always in hiding.

Oliver Stone: They say he was going to come back to Russia. He had some information.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, I have been told that he wants to make a written request to come back.

Oliver Stone: He knew still and he wanted to come back. He had information that he could give to the world press here in Russia.

Vladimir Putin: I doubt it. He has broken the ranks already. What kind of information can he possess?

The information Sergei Skripal possessed might have been related to the U.S. election and the Steele dossier which alleged that Russia had dirt on Trump. On March 8 2018, only a few days after the Sergei and Julia Skripal were allegedly poisoned, we discussed the connection in our first post on the Skripal affair:

[Christopher] Steele was an MI6 undercover agent in Moscow around the time when Skripal was recruited and handed Russian secrets over to the MI6. He [later] ran the MI6 Russia desk so anything about Skripal will have passed through him. It is very likely that they personally knew each other. Pablo Miller, who worked for Steele's private company [Orbis], lived in the same town as Skripal and they seems to have been friends since Miller had recruited him. Miller or someone else attempted to cover up the connection to Steele by editing his LinkedIn entry.

Here are some question:

  • Did Skripal help Steele to make up the "dossier" about Trump?
  • Were Skripal's old connections used to contact other people in Russia to ask about Trump dirt?
  • Did Skripal threaten to talk about this?

If there is a connection between the dossier and Skripal, which seems very likely to me, then there are a number of people and organizations with potential motives to kill him. Lots of shady folks and officials on both sides of the Atlantic were involved in creating and running the anti-Trump/anti-Russia campaign. There are several investigations and some very dirty laundry might one day come to light. Removing Skripal while putting the blame on Russia looks like a convenient way to get rid of a potential witness.

The British government issued a D-Notice which prohibited the British press from further mentioning Pablo Miller.

We also speculated that Skripal wanted to go back to Russia:

The most curious point in the affair though is the visit of the daughter. She had just come from Moscow to visit her lonely father when both were poisoned in a rather sensational way. There must be some reason why she was involved in this.

  • Did she have a bad message for him?
  • Did they both decide that suicide was the only way out?
  • Was locally bought Fentanyl involved as the local press had reported?

or

  • Was the lonely old man Sergej Skripal preparing to go back to his homeland Russia?
  • Did he offer a some kind of "gift" as apology to the Russian government that his trusted daughter would take to Moscow?
  • Did someone find out and stop the transfer?

The above questions are all highly speculative. But the connection between Steele and Skripal is way too deep to be irrelevant here. It certainly deserves more digging.

Putin now confirms that Skripal was indeed willing to come back to Russia. Oliver Stone thinks Skripal wanted to present something to the press. If Skripal had publicly said that he made up and wrote the Steele dossier, the anti-Trump/anti-Russia campaign by the Clinton 'resistance' would have been over. The whole Mueller investigation nonsense would never have happened.

Pablo Miller, the British spy, also appeared in the papers of the shady Integrity Initiative:

There is additional suspicion that the Integrity Initiative, whose primary function is to stoke Russophobia, was one of the brains behind the Skripal incident.

The Initiative was also involved in the Steele dossier and the russophobic anti-Trump campaign. Andrew Wood, a former British ambassador to Moscow, is employed by the Institute for Statecraft, the shadowy parent organization of the Integrity Initiative funded by the Ministry of Defense and Foreign Office. It was Andrew Wood who helped to disseminate the Steele dossier to U.S. Senator John McCain. McCain then gave the dossier to FBI Director James Comey. The FBI used the dossier first to get FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign, and, after Comey was fired, to launch a counter-intelligence investigation (section 3) against Trump himself.

Here is a theory how all this may come together. Back in 2015 the Institute of Statecraft and its russophobic director Colonel Donnelly discussed how to increase sanctions on Russia. In 2016 the Steele dossier was created in an attempt to connect Trump to Russia. Steele's colleague Pablo Miller and his spy Sergei Skripal were quite likely involved in creating the dossier. The dossier was disseminated with the help of Donnelly's Institute of Statecraft.

For some reason the Skripals had to be taken out. Sergei Skripal probably threatened to spill the beans about the dossier after it became public.  The highly scripted 'Novichok' incident in Salisbury was staged to remove Skripal and to smear Russia with an alleged murder attempt. Colonel McCourt, the trusted army nurse, was asked to help on the scene. After the Skripal incident, and with no evidence shown, Russia was blamed and massive sanctions followed. The Integrity Initiative, the propaganda arm of the Institute of Statecraft, analyzes the media results of the Skripal affair and continues to stoke the anti-Russia campaign.

It might be possible that Steele's 'dirty dossier', the Skripal case and the Integrity Initiative operation are unrelated. But that chance for that now tends towards zero.

The weak part of that theory was always that we did not know for sure if Sergei Skripal really wanted to go back to Russia. We now know that this was the case. Oliver Stone seems to know that Skripal wanted to go public about something. That makes the theory fit even better.

Putin does not believe that the Skripals were poisoned to kill them:

Oliver Stone: Who poisoned him? They say English secret services did not want Sergei Skripal to come back to Russia?

Vladimir Putin: To be honest, I do not quite believe this. I do not believe this is the case.

Oliver Stone: Makes sense. You do not agree with me?

Vladimir Putin: If they had wanted to poison him, they would have done so.

Oliver Stone: Ok, that makes sense. I don’t know. Who did then?

Vladimir Putin: After all, this is not a hard thing to do in today’s world. In fact, a fraction of a milligram would have been enough to do the job. And if they had him in their hands, there was nothing complicated about it. No, this does not make sense. Maybe they just wanted to provoke a scandal.

Oliver Stone: I think it is more complicated. You know, you think I am much too much of a conspiracy guy.

Vladimir Putin: I do not believe this.

Oliver Stone: I have seen things. I do.

Vladimir Putin: You should not.

When and where will the Oliver Stone documentary about the Skripal affair have its premiere?


Previous Moon of Alabama posts on the Skripal case:

Mar 8 2018 Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign
Mar 12 2018 Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment
Mar 14 2018 Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? – May's Claims Fall Apart
Mar 16 2018 The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?
Mar 18 2018 NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"
Mar 21 2018 Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' – High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)
Mar 29 2018 Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed – "The Skripals' Resurrection"
Mar 31 2018 Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions
Apr 3 2018 Operation Hades Blamed Russia – A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?
Apr 4 2018 It's The Cover-Up" – UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies
Apr 5 2018 Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street – Truth Cut Off
Apr 6 2018 The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still … Food Poisoning
Apr 7 2018 A Very British Farce
Apr 12 2018 New Developments In The Skripal Drama – Police Statement, OPCW Report Release
Apr 15 2018 Were the Skripals 'Buzzed', 'Novi-shocked' Or Neither? – May Has Some 'Splaining' To Do
Apr 28 2018 The Silence Of The Skripals – Government Blocks Press Reports – Media Change The Record
May 4 2018 Media Use Disinformation To Accuse Russia Of Spreading Such
July 4 2018 British Government Peddles Warmed Over Novichok Muck
Sep 5 2018 The Strange Timestamp In The New Novichok 'Evidence' – UPDATED
Sep 16 2018 The MoA Week In Review – Secret Bio-weapons – Skripals – OT 2018-47
Sep 27 2018 British Intelligence Throws More Novi-Fog™ To Hide The Holes In Its Skripal File
Jan 9 2019 Stuff To Read: Integrity Initiative, Skripal, Kaspersky …
Jan 19 2019 Coincidence? – Chief Nurse Of British Army Was First To Arrive At Novichoked Skripal Scene
Apr 16 2019 CIA Director Used Fake Skripal Incident Photos To Manipulate Trump
Jun 6 2019 Odd NYT 'Correction' Exculpates British Government And CIA From Manipulating Trump Over Skripal Novichok Incident

 

Comments

Petri Krohn @ 74:
The problem with Michael Antony’s explanation is that the charity bin has to remain untouched and unopened or emptied from about 5 March to about 5 July or the first week of July at least. That would be roughly four months from the time Sergei Skripal pops the bottle into the bin to the time Charlie Rowley finds the package and gives it to Dawn Sturgess who then opens the package, applies the perfume to her wrists and promptly keels over.
Plus if Skripal suspected that the bottle contained something dodgy, wouldn’t you think the last place he’d dispose of it would be a charity bin, if he were an intelligent ex-spook?

Posted by: jen | Jul 21 2019 11:01 utc | 101

@somebody # 102 ,
RT is mixing two different questions in one sentence:
“Stone asked the Russian leader if he believes in the theory that Sergei Skripal wanted to return to Russia and divulge some secrets but was stopped by the British government.
“Honestly, I don’t really believe it. I don’t believe it,” Putin replied.”
That remark by Putin was actually in response only to the question of whether UK spooks poisoned Skripal to stop him returning to Russia, not about whether Skripal wanted to return:
Oliver Stone: Who poisoned him? They say English secret services did not want Sergei Skripal to come back to Russia?
Vladimir Putin: To be honest, I do not quite believe this. I do not believe this is the case.

Posted by: Brendan | Jul 21 2019 11:01 utc | 102

b: “Filmmaker Oliver Stone recently interviewed the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin. The transcript was published yesterday evening. Most of the interview is about Ukraine. A separate piece will cover that country. There is also a passage about the U.S. election.”
The “passage” about Ukraine is no less interesting. For example,
Oliver Stone: I remember you were telling me about the Obama phone call, Obama and you had an agreement that there would be no firing on the last day. And he gave you a promise that he would…
Vladimir Putin: You know, while Obama is no longer President, there are certain things we do not discuss in public. At any rate, I can say that the US did not follow through on the agreements that we reached during this phone call [my emphasis]. I will stop there without going into detail.

Posted by: John Smith | Jul 21 2019 11:47 utc | 103

Yeah Right
You and fawny james seems to be obsessed with me for some reason, perhaps I offended you (or Putin that you seems to hold very dear) and if so I am sorry, but you guys should now that I am not swing that way. There are other sites for that. 🙂
Check how b responded at comment #7, it was factual, it was with respect – that is how you do it if you want my attention.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 21 2019 11:50 utc | 104

b: “Filmmaker Oliver Stone recently interviewed the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin. The transcript was published yesterday evening. Most of the interview is about Ukraine. A separate piece will cover that country. There is also a passage about the U.S. election.”
The “passage” about Ukraine is no less interesting. For example,
Oliver Stone: I remember you were telling me about the Obama phone call, Obama and you had an agreement that there would be no firing on the last day. And he gave you a promise that he would…
Vladimir Putin: You know, while Obama is no longer President, there are certain things we do not discuss in public. At any rate, I can say that the US did not follow through on the agreements that we reached during this phone call [my emphasis]. I will stop there without going into detail.

Posted by: truth seeker | Jul 21 2019 11:52 utc | 105

Posted by: Brendan | Jul 21 2019 11:01 utc | 114
Yes, I guess that is RT’s way of clarifying it without criticising the clarity of the interview (and they understand the Russian version).
If Putin had wanted to say something else, RT would summarize it differently.
RT is state media..

Posted by: somebody | Jul 21 2019 11:57 utc | 106

Thank you Moscowexile.
The Skripal case has been an enigma from day one, with plenty of what-ifs speculations. If I were to bet on this, I’d go with Skripal becoming a triple X agent, turned around while in prison the first time. (Now, he seems to be in jail again.)

Posted by: Attila | Jul 21 2019 12:27 utc | 107

Posted by: Russ | Jul 20 2019 21:16 utc | 51
Posted by: Russ | Jul 20 2019 21:18 utc | 52

Robert Kraft… Robert Kraft…
This one who was charged with two counts of soliciting prostitution? By the way, were these charges dropped? Link
As for the ring:
National Football League: Link 1 Link 2

“It’s a humorous, anecdotal story that Robert re-tells for laughs. He loves that his ring is at the Kremlin and, as he stated back in 2005, he continues to have great respect for Russia and the leadership of President Putin,” a team spokesman said. “In particular, he credits President Putin for modernizing the Russian economy.”

Vladimir Putin offers to replace Robert Kraft’s ‘stolen’ Patriots ringThe Guardian

Russian president rejects billionaire US businessman’s claim that he pocketed $25,000 diamond ring in St Petersburg in 2005
If Vladimir Putin ever takes anything from you, worry not: he will replace it with something bigger and better.
<...>
Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYgsFtNFW5s

Posted by: truth seeker | Jul 21 2019 12:30 utc | 108

flankerbandit 75 on William Gruff’s troll spotting
“Yesterday you posted an interesting heads up about state dept and Atlantic council trolls working here. The context being crowing about the Panamanian deflagging of the Iranian vessel.”
Thanks, I really had good laugh. To think that somebody could seriously consider WG’s resentful mud-slinging as a ‘heads up’!
“There was one ‘scotch bingeington’ I believe who made it all sound rather above board.”
I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean, but I’m not going to ask either (my heads-up to you).
Cheers, gzon! Hope you’re not getting tired of all this…

Posted by: Scotch_Bingeington | Jul 21 2019 12:37 utc | 109

Posted by: Russ | Jul 21 2019 8:13 utc | 96
That sounds like a good sign to me, if kids in the US and UK are disregarding the system hype about “space travel”, a stupid, worthless endeavor which will never accomplish anything except maybe to weaponize space.
Meanwhile it sounds like Chinese kids are still drinking the techno-necro kool ade.

How many attempts will you guess, the students from WHICH countries or of WHAT ethnic background WIN international Olympiads in science and programming? To get started, please, look at the photos of US teams in certain subjects.

Posted by: truth seeker | Jul 21 2019 12:44 utc | 110

@109 Insane scenario “C’mon guys, the handling of the case shortly after the event rules out any Russian induced poisoning, circumstantial evidence does not fit a nerve agent.”
I was always puzzled by how inept the British government’s pronouncements were following the poisoning of the Skripals.
But once Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov were fingered then the penny dropped.
Here are my two hypotheses:
a) Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov were Russian intelligence officers sent to make contact with Sergei Skripal to parlay a deal.
b) British intelligence knew all about their upcoming visit (perhaps Yulia had been instructed to vouch for them, and was sloppy)
Easy-peasy: poison the Skripals at that park bench, then do some detective work to “discover” that those two weaselly-looking Russians were in Salisbury at the exact some time that Ol’ Sergei was keeling over.
Open and shut case, m’lord.
Only the two Russians had left Salisbury (1:50pm) before the Skripals had even entered the Mill Pub (2:20pm).
Therefore they could not possibly have attacked Sergei and Yulia at that park bench (4:15pm).
Shit, meet Fan.
Q: What do the Brits do once they find out that they had no fall-guy?
A: Scramble. Improvise. Wave their arms around like demented pigeons.
For starters, keep very quiet about Petrov and Boshirov until it is possible to come up with some way to squeeze them into the narrative.
And, for goodness sake, squash any suggestion that the Skripals had been attacked at that park bench. No, perish the thought, even if it is the obvious conclusion.
Errrr, how about the car! No, that’s stupid. The poison was in Zizzi’s? No, that doesn’t actually help. The ducks… no, get a grip man, that’s dumber than the car… ummm.. umm.. umm..
Flunky: What about the doorknob?
Flustered: What?
Flunky: We can claim they smeared the poison on the doorknob.
Flustered: Oh, what the heck. OK, we’ll go with that.
Flunky: And Petrov and Boshirov?
Flustered: Yes, yes [waves hand] release their pictures.
These are facts:
a) Petrov and Boshirov were on a train back to London by 2pm
b) Sergei and Yulia were found on that park bench around 4pm
c) The Brits therefore had to come up with a timeline that has the Skripals poisoned well *before* 2pm but only collapsing *after* 4pm.
What we see now is the result of that need i.e. it is an insult to the intelligence, but the only way for the Brits to pin the attack on their pre-planned fall-guys.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 21 2019 12:45 utc | 111

Posted by: Evelyn | Jul 20 2019 23:44 utc | 66
Vladimir Putin: Is there an American culture?
GOOD QUESTION!

Yes, of course, there is.
NHL, NBA, NFL, KFC, McDonald’s, hamburgers, hotdogs, coke and other junk food…
panem et circenses!
Joke!

Posted by: truth seeker | Jul 21 2019 12:51 utc | 112

@ in re organic chem prof and novowhatever… The Prof is obviously correct, dd simple. There are guys in jails, busted for dope, who could make novowhatever…
However, since the “agent” found by Swiss was Agent BZ, it might be more interesting to hear what poster 101 has to say about synthesizing BZ…
“I asserted that any credible organic chemist could make novichok nerve agents. Here is my final exam in my 1st year graduate organic synthesis course. Only one kid of 15 lost any points. Uniquely Russian technology my ass….”
So, Professor Collum, speak, please, to matter of BZ, as this seems far more interesting and congruent with observations.
Thanks.

Posted by: Walter | Jul 21 2019 12:55 utc | 113

Nothing wrong with paid work being tiring. It lets the employee know they have earned their shekels, or benjamins as the case may be. It helps keep the “impostor syndrome” at bay.
I wonder if Sergei got impostor syndrome when he was writing up his part of the Steele Dossier or if he was just enjoying an opportunity to be creative?

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 21 2019 13:06 utc | 114

Why the photos of all these imperial grinders?
But seriously, unless this whole omnicidal high-destruction civilization collapses and ceases to exist very soon, this hothouse flower “civilized humanity” will certainly become the apex victim of its own mass extinction campaign. The only question is how many other species will be wiped out first (200 per day is the best current scientific estimate), and how many of the few remaining indigenous peoples genocided?

Posted by: Russ | Jul 21 2019 13:35 utc | 115

@ seeker 115
When I did the search, the top result had a blurb which said Kraft went and complained to the Bush administration, “Putin stole my ring!” It said the administration advised him to just say he gave it to Putin as a gift.
All jokes aside, that seems to show how Bush, while not seeking detente in this second cold war which Clinton had started, still wanted to keep it on ice and not escalate it. It was Obama who really escalated it and heated it up, and Trump has followed Obama’s lead.

Posted by: Russ | Jul 21 2019 13:36 utc | 116

Yesterday, July 20th, was the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11.
My local newspaper had a full page picture of a suited (redundant) Astronaut,
and plastered above him in huge font were the first three words spoken:
One Small Step
.
As you are aware, the first ten words spoken were:
.
One Small Step
for man
One Giant Leap
for ManKind
.
One Small Step…wasn’t looking for it but I could not help but notice
the acronym from the “first three words spoken”.
O.ne
S.mall
S.step
.
OSS – the predecessor of the CIA
.
You can file this away somewhere, just thought I would pass that observation on.

Posted by: librul | Jul 21 2019 13:39 utc | 117

Do some here really believe that Putin is so stupid and has Skripal murdered just before the presidential elections in Russia so that he can quarter millions of voters?
AND not to forget the soon-to-be starting football World Cup.
Do those who accuse Putin really believe that this man is so stupid and accepts that these games could be boycotted because of the Skripal affair?
People from all over the world have gone to Russia despite the script history because they no longer believe their own corrupt Western politicians.

Posted by: arosa2 | Jul 21 2019 13:55 utc | 118

@Posted by: arosa2 | Jul 21, 2019 1:55:32 PM | 130
I would add something to your list.
Britain, the US, etc kept accusing Syria’s Assad of using chemical weapons,
while Russia used the strength of their influence to be the voice of reason.
After the Skripal attack it becomes one chemical weapons user (Russia)
defending another chemical weapons user (Syria).
I think the above is one of the reasons/goals for the Skripal false-flag.

Posted by: librul | Jul 21 2019 14:19 utc | 119

I’m providing this link to a Telegraph article about the Sergei call just as a starting point for anyone who may be curious.
Posted by: Ort | Jul 21 2019 0:23 utc | 69
…..
The site of the Russian newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets on Thursday posted what it said was a voicemail message that Mr Skripal had left his niece Viktoria in Russia earlier this month.
…….
The Telegraph could not reach Viktoria for comment, but another niece, Yelena Skripal, told REN TV that it was indeed Sergei who had called.
…..
1. MK and RenTV are among the most “yellow” Russia-wide media, that are not explicitly pulp lewd time killers yet. But close.
2. They do not say about talks, but about voicemail. The notice made advanced and just played back over phone. In other words, this voicemail can not be pinned on timescale, it could be prepared in advance month ago, year ago, dizen years ago, etc.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 14:21 utc | 120

To follow up on the voicemail.
Even in the most optimistic case ( the voicemail was recorded by Skripal himself and short before its transfer to his niece phone in Russia ) the “kidnapping” holds. If his daughter was allowed to speak to UK vetted 1%-obedient media and have one short phone talk maybe at the gunpoint of her MI-6 supplied bodyguards, her father was not allowed even that. Only a strictly one-direction, strictly pre-recorded, maybe read from pre-arranged paper short speech was allowed to him.
I mean, maybe for Putin there is really nothing of importance that Skrypal could know and tell. But for Her Majesty Pirate Queen things seems very different. For her uncontrolled Skrypal speech might throw her into serious trouble, regardless of Putin.
That can well be if Skrypal was pillar of Russiagate. Or some other similar affair.
For Putin ir really would make little difference if one Western professional liar or another was behind the dossier. Why should it matter for Putin?
But for HMPQ having witness going public that UK gov’t tried to foster coup in USA would be above nothingburger grade.
——-
What about Putin’s reluctance to speak about Skrypal.
It might be the opposite.
He may be NOT in the know, and for a person preferring to know more than rest and be in control by means of that knowledge, such being in the dark might make him uncertain and unsure and wanting to get away onto solid soil.
Twice so, that there would be nothing good for Putin in Skrypal’s return. “out of the sight, out of the heart”.
Imagine Skrypal published his plea to return. What Putin would have to do?
ATM Skrypal was poisoned at the doors of UK chem.weapons plant in company of UK Army chem-warware officer, and Puttin is decried all around.
Now what if Skrypal makes it to Russia? In few months he would be killed in Moscow and become Nemtsov 2.0. What would be good for Putin in that?
Now what if Putin bans this repatriation? “good old freedom loving Skrypal wants to reunite with family and spent his last days in peace between loved birches, but bloody merciless vengenceful tyrant Putin stomps upon poor guy last wish”. Again, what is good for Putin in this?
So, perhaps, for Putin that story and Skrypal hinself indeed feel like a pile of s-t he better not touch with a flagpole.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 14:39 utc | 121

Until somebody shows me where the Heck the Skripals are NOW, I am not going to believe anything at all about what happened to put them there. I tend to think they are deceased, or they would have been trotted out for more coerced interviews. (Taped and edited, of course, not live.)

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 21 2019 14:45 utc | 122

and “wrote to Putin” (timing not provided) asking for full pardon to be able to return to Russia on family grounds. Writing to Putin was denied by Kremlin to BBC, and by Peskov in Russian media the next day.
Posted by: Don Karlos | Jul 21 2019 10:49 utc | 101
You simplify a transaction by removing a middleman.
Imagine that Skrypal did write write such a letter. But how would he make Putin receive it?
Writing a piece does not make it delivered.
And who could deliver such a Skrypal letter? HMPQ’s Royal Mail? LOL. They would not. They would make a copy for MI-6, then would “loose” it or would return to Skrypal claiming Putin refused to take it.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 14:55 utc | 123

The weak part of that theory was always that we did not know for sure if Sergei Skripal really wanted to go back to Russia.
b top post.
Iirc, Sergei’s desire to do so was reported from various sources, Viktoria Skripal (niece) in first place, Yulia perhaps as well. It was just a part of the story for those who were gripped by it, incl. me. Getting the quotes together would take hours, in any case they might be contested, be merely some ‘option’, etc.
Makes sense: his wife and son had died, his (one guesses beloved) daughter was established in Russia, he never adapted except superficially, was never successful, in GB. (i can’t speak to steele dossier etc.)
Sergei holding Yulia post birth:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43353178
Guardian, by Luke Harding, published an article stating that Sergei did not at first believe that Russia ‘poisoned him’ – parts ring very true, and are counter to the MSM narrative.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/02/sergei-skripal-initially-did-not-believe-russia-tried-to-kill-him-book
Sergei is alive (I tend to believe that), just as Yulia said in her last phone call.
Sergei called Viktoria (niece) who is living with and taking care of his mother, May 2019.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/23/sergei-skripal-heard-first-time-since-poisoning-phone-call-relatives/
Putin knows pretty much what happened but won’t say imho.
Here a report on upping spy vs spy stories to inflame international relations co. Putin.
https://tass.com/world/1065970

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 21 2019 14:59 utc | 124

Theresa May should be installed in the Tower of London until she habeas the Scripal’s corpses or provides verifiable information as to their estate. Should said Theresa May expire in said Tower of London, she can do so in knowledge and consolation that so many much better than herself have done so already.
The Tower of London stands as the best monument to the liquidation of the British Monarchy and their Royal Family as well as the Aristocracy that supports that enterprise. May it soon be so dedicated. Maybe the lies will then stop.
Only an opinion (and prayer).

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 21 2019 15:07 utc | 125

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 21 2019 14:45 utc | 123
“I tend to think they are deceased, or they would have been trotted out for more coerced interviews.”
I disagree with those. As it is, it seems literally no one in Britain cares about this case. (I’m not there, but I’m assuming if there were a civil liberties group trying to make a public issue of their disappearance, loudly demanding of the government, “Where are the Skripals? Are you illegally imprisoning them?”, that I would’ve read about it here at some point.) So why remind the people of their bizarrely disappeared existence?
As for killing them, though, if the government were smart in this case (I know they’re stupid in general, yes), they’d still keep them alive just in case there somehow were public pressure to produce them. Look at the mistake Richard III made.

Posted by: Russ | Jul 21 2019 15:11 utc | 126

Arioch @122 pointed out: “…maybe for Putin there is really nothing of importance that Skrypal could know and tell.”
This is an significant distinction. Does it really matter to Putin or Russian geostrategic interests if Sergei Skripal wanted to announce that he was one of the authors of the Steele Dossier, and that he just did it for fun and profit? To the British and the Americans this would be a huge embarrassment, but aside from some sweet schadenfreude what would Russia gain from it?
From Stone’s perspective this issue would be very important, but from Putin’s, not so much. When assigning an issue importance, one must always consider to whom the issue is important as importance is rarely universal.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 21 2019 15:15 utc | 127


Only an opinion (and prayer).
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jul 21 2019 15:07 utc | 126

Amen.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 21 2019 15:20 utc | 128

curious man… thanks for your posts…
@126 ftbear – lol… would be good…
@128 wg… if skripal had made it back to russia and claimed that he wrote up a bunch of bs for the steele dossier, there would be the sound of silence in the western media…. we would be getting oliver stone interviews with skripal treated like toilet paper by most of the west as well… unfortunately it would all go nowhere and the damage towards russia has already been done in the minds of many… alternatively there are many folks here on moa that see it exactly the opposite..
it is the same deal the past 2 days with the “””iranian”””” drone that was shot down over the usa ship… do we ever find out the reality on this? nope… all the west has to do is say it, and it is as good as reality for many…

Posted by: james | Jul 21 2019 15:33 utc | 129

russ @127: I said deceased, not killed by UK, that was some other posters.
The UK government has not showed a shred of intelligence for several decades now. They take orders from us, and we are not really their friends, we intend to rule, not ally. you can’t get more naive than that. But I don’t really care, like with Kashoggi, I want to know where there are now, before I starting putting emotional weight behind any stories I’m being told about how they got there.
(Not trying to get in your face, just like accurate representation of what I said.)

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 21 2019 15:55 utc | 130

Bemildred 132
“I said deceased, not killed by UK, that was some other posters.”
In a context like this, in what other way would they be likely to be deceased? Especially a young woman?
You say I misread you. I’d be extremely surprised if I’m the only one who read it that way.

Posted by: Russ | Jul 21 2019 16:10 utc | 131

@ Arioch 124
Actually, he would have quite a number of ways to “write to P”, if he really wanted.
E.g. he could (a) send an electronic message directly using electronic letter submission option on the official website, or (b) he could ask Yulia to do so for him, and she had a social media account (that’s how his classmate established a contact with him), + almost surely a email address,+ able to visit (c) or similarly via Victoria (d) or that classmate (e) or come to any Rus. consulate anywhere and ask for it to be done –and one of his UK acquaintances was telling he visited the embassy ‘often’ (f) or do it in lots of other ways he could easily come up with, given his background in intelligence, + contacts and experience, even if his communications were monitored

Posted by: Don Karlos | Jul 21 2019 16:14 utc | 132

From what I have heard, the Russians believe that the Skripal affair has been much more damaging to HMG than it has to Russia, and have no interest in removing the mystery surrounding it – the more people delve, the more it stinks.
As an inhabitant of the UK, I can say that a lot of us were very shocked when the Government was trying to stuff these obvious lies down our throats, and it is what got a few of us onto alternative media – sick to death as we already were of the Brexit poison in the MSM. So a belated thank you to b, and your colleagues, what would we do without you.

Posted by: Montreal | Jul 21 2019 16:15 utc | 133

@james (38) Not sure what your point is re Putin’s silence on the Skripal’s whereabouts. Putin could publicly wonder why Britain is keeping them incommunicado. What are the Brits hiding? Even a devoted Empire supporter would have to agree that it is most peculiar. Yet Putin claims to have no knowledge on the subject, which is almost certainly untrue. His reason for this is unclear, but Putin is nothing if not shrewd. In time, the story will come out one way or another.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 21 2019 16:30 utc | 134

@ Zanon, #1:

Doubt that, Skripal’s enemies is in Russia, Putin have earlier stated Skripal was a traitor and should be treated as such. Why Skripal would go Russia after he deliberately moved out of Russia after an assault most likely carried out by someone in Russia, that makes no sense.

It seems you just watch/read MSM too much.
“would go Russia”, “moved out of Russia”, “by someone in Russia” etc.
Russia, Russia, Russia…
The thing is that Russia has nothing to do with all this stuff (mean, “Skripal case”).
Yes, Putin called Skripal a traitor. Why? Because Skripal is a traitor.
If you didn’t know, Putin is used to calling a spade a spade, without prevarication or double meanings.

“Why Skripal would go Russia”

You reason in categories that you understand, although in reality people may have dozens of reasons to do what you do not understand.
Why Skripal would go Russia? Well, don’t you think the answer may be that Skripal simply love Russia? Because Russia is his Motherland, his home, his country. Because he has his mother here, relatives, friends etc.
He can love Russia, his country, even in spite of the harm that has caused her by his betrayal.
He may experience shame, remorse, and other feelings. Don’t you think about it?
And you don’t understand the main thing. Because of Western MSM propaganda it may seems to people that something is “wrong” with living in Russia.
This is pure nonsense. Just to remind – Skripal was arrested, and he served his time in Russian jail, according to law.
Then he was officially pardoned and was released free. Since that moment he was free to do whatever he wanted.
The right to come back to Russia was/is his right.
There’s no law in Russia that if you served prison term and was released, you can’t come back from another country.
So, i repeat, Skripal can do whatever he wants.
The fact that Putin called him a traitor does not matter. Traitors can come back, bastards can come back, liars can come back etc.
If you have no problems with the law, the Russian state will have no complaints about you.
Since 2011, when Skripal was pardoned, he is clean under Russian law, so can do whatever he wants.
Btw, just to remind – Boris Berezovsky also was going to come back from UK to Russia, he wrote a letter to Putin.
But “suddenly” it happened so that Berezovsky committed a “suicide”.
We can only guess what he could tell if he returned to Russia.
Someone really did not want this information to become known…

Posted by: alaff | Jul 21 2019 16:32 utc | 135

@136 rob… the west isn’t interested in what russia or putin think… they never cover russia or putin in any fair, honest way… it always gets twisted when not straight silence… so what if putin was to ask where are the skripals? do you think the west would cover this, or not twist it into some weird contortion, if it even was mentioned?? so, putin is best to remain silent and for folks like you and i to see just how fucked up the uk is over this… for anyone examing all this, the uk looks very bad indeed.. unfortunately most folks are not really examining it all that closely… they are being fed sound bites to keep up the pretense… i am sorry i wasn’t clear in my post.. it might have to do with the fact i think this is very obvious, but maybe i am in a minority.

Posted by: james | Jul 21 2019 16:48 utc | 136

This has always smelled fishy to me. Why Iran? One of the most sanctioned countries in the world is allowed to make nerve agents, supported by OPCW? Why not some
top class western chemical lab like Porton Down?
Posted by: Joost | Jul 21 2019 8:04 utc | 84
There was a report that regularly published USA electronic database of dangerous chemicals and their properties once had one of Novichok family substances listed, suggesting US government certified lab reproduced enough of Novichok to research upon its chemical qualities. The next “version” of the database released however had Novichok wiped away from it without any explanations. “we were always at war with Eastasia”, you know.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 16:53 utc | 137

daily mail?Give me a break!

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 21 2019 16:56 utc | 138

Actually, he would have quite a number of ways to “write to P”, if he really wanted.
Posted by: Don Karlos | Jul 21 2019 16:14 utc | 134
Notice, he would have to make his letter “authorised”, and so should be required of Putin’s answer.
Even us mere mortals delete “Nigerian spam” mails without reading. So would do Putin 😀
Plus this talk should be undetected by no one else until Skrypal appears in Russia.
> (a) send an electronic message directly using electronic letter submission option on the official website,
Yep, i can do it. And sign with Don Karlos.
Would not suit for so highly secret and personal plea as alleged Skrypal’s fleeing back to Russia.
> (b) he could ask Yulia to do so for him,
Maybe he did not want them involved. They would become frightened why of a sudden, would possibly do some unpredictable jerk…
Also, what would have Yulia to do exactly?
Write on his behalf when home? That does not fit “i wrote” account.
Take paper from dad’s hands and carry on her body? Dangerous for that very daddy, if found.
> and she had a social media account (that’s how his classmate established a contact with him), + almost surely a email address
and Five Eyes have Echelon
> or come to any Rus. consulate anywhere
And be hit by drunk taxi driver to death next week.
> and one of his UK acquaintances was telling he visited the embassy ‘often’
Sounds very strange to me.
If so, it nullifies idea that two Russian drug-tourists were to bring some papers to Skrypal, which she could then receive in the embassy.
> (f) or do it in lots of other ways he could easily come up with, given his background in intelligence, + contacts and experience, even if his communications were monitored
His handlers were experienced no less than him.
And Putin was not particularly looking into texting disowned traitor.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 17:05 utc | 139

daily mail?Give me a break!
Posted by: dahoit | Jul 21 2019 16:56 utc | 140
…..and thus bi-daily mail was founded 😀

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21 2019 17:06 utc | 140

Regarding last years Skripal case and this present crisis with Iran.
Some times when we follow national and international affairs, taking an interest in the darkest sinister events, we come across a reacurring name ! A pattern forms you never here that name, but time after time there it is when something really bad has happened or about to happen !
For me this has been the case with one name over a period of 20 years.
That name was prominent with the London Bridge attacks, Skripal ect ect
That name has been on the bbc radio news several times today (Sunday) regarding Iran ,
Trust me this subject is about to blow up !
The name ?
Tobias Elwood mp
I would prefer people did their own in-depth reaserch !
It’s way to hot for me to go deeper here!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 21 2019 17:29 utc | 141

The presence of HMG nurse on site, and the subsequent Monty Pythom-esque cover up, seems
proof enough that the UK had foreknowledge and without question, worked to keep the Russophobia stoked high not only after the incident, but the later killed a UK citizen to continue the incident.
Mr. P is being diplomatic.

Posted by: Casey | Jul 21 2019 17:49 utc | 142

The guy who said that Skripal has been visiting the embassy “monthly” is Valery Morozov, who has a refugee status in the UK. He made the claim in interviews to Western and Russian opposition media, saying that he did not like that and stopped his contacts with S.
E.g. here https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fellow-russian-exile-claims-poisoned-12146023 and https://tvrain.ru/news/znakomyj-459957/ here. Video seems gone, the text is still there.
Apparently not confirmed by the embassy
FWIW
PS. For the official website submission, one does not need to “authorize” it, one needs to provide the full name, email, and phone number on electronic form, that’s all. It may be not the best way but the office is required to confirm receipt and to answer. Of course it may not be the kind of answer which he sought…

Posted by: Don Karlos | Jul 21 2019 18:11 utc | 143

alaff
Very easy, Skripal lhave not moved to Russia, nor has his daughter.
he is not friend of Russian state, after the swap he kept working with intelligence services in the whole of the west, giving them information on Russia.
You dont go back to live freely in the nation you repeatedly commited high treason against, then, you are just foolish, begging to be killed.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 21 2019 19:41 utc | 144

When someone makes a claim and others show that claim is false, and then the first person makes the same claim again, then you know that person is not interested in discussion, but is only interested in propagating a false narrative.
Check post #7 of this thread to see where a false narrative was destroyed, and see above where that false narrative was just repeated.
Did the poster forget that his claim has already been debunked? No, of course not. The poster knows his narrative is false. It is his job to repeat it anyway.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 21 2019 20:11 utc | 145

@ zanon 145

You dont go back to live freely in the nation you repeatedly commited high treason against, then, you are just foolish, begging to be killed.

Is that right?
And your years of experience in the intel field point to this conclusion?
And Putin is lying to Oliver Stone?
Or maybe you’re just a clueless shmoe who has posted all kinds of nonsense here?

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 21 2019 20:26 utc | 146

@ Scotch_Bingeington 110

Cheers, gzon! Hope you’re not getting tired of all this…

Looks like your buddy ‘gzon’ is MIA.
He was last heard ‘farting’ in my direction. Perhaps the unusually powerful ‘thrust’ of this reaction propelled him clear to China?

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 21 2019 20:34 utc | 147

@ William Gruff 146
This website is one of the most influential in the alternative media universe. It’s Alexa ratings have increased dramatically in recent months. It should come as no surprise that prominent alt media would be targeted by the vastly powerful establishment that wants to control narratives.
The mainstream media is now definitely imploding. Not only has viewership for outlets like CNN fallen precipitously [below that of some alt media outlets], but nobody believes the stories they are telling.
The existence of troll farms is no secret. The Israeli government proudly promotes it’s Jewish Internet Defense Force, for instance. Other outfits such as various NGOs etc, whose game has always been propaganda and agitation would prefer to operate anonymously.
Thanks for your common sense words here.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 21 2019 20:52 utc | 148

flankerbandit @149–
Ditto your thanks! Zanon’s been outed as a troll for months, yet he keeps being fed and FUDs with its fellows.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 21 2019 21:11 utc | 149

🙂 Arioch
Personally I don’t find DaiRy Mail particularly offensive but then again I only look at the pictures 😛
[I’m joking (ie.: what I’m saying is not testimony and does not have to be either true or false) but I’m sure someone is still offended]

About trolls: always assume everyone everywhere is a troll, and in case they aren’t there’s the fact that all humans (including myself) are guaranteed to be “stupid” nearly all the time.
Solution (at least for me): question yourself and your own thoughts more, read more, observe more, talk and write less.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 21 2019 21:25 utc | 150

@105 Zanon “that is how you do it if you want my attention.”
You flatter yourself.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 21 2019 22:11 utc | 151

William Gruff@128
Absolutely.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 22 2019 2:29 utc | 152

flankerbandit
Of course as I just said, he havent gone back.
It doesnt take much to understand how a guy that repeatedly commited high treason will not be welcomed to that very nation. You dont know russian culture on this issue obviously. Even the daughter dont dare going back. Go figure.
William Gruff / Yeah Right / Karlof1
I dont think b appreciate your constant diverting and troll accusations that wreck the comment sections and is above all off topic.
You guys seems so angry. Its like I insulted your mothers, take it easy lets debate factually, if you cant, dont be mad at me, but at yourself.
Troll accusations is also liberals/MSM//Neocons way of silencing people, you guys give credit to that bs.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 22 2019 11:02 utc | 153

Clearly William Gruff, Yeah Right, and karlof1 hit a nerve with Zanon. That makes it more likely that their accusations of Zanon being a “troll” are accurate.

Posted by: Cynica | Jul 22 2019 12:57 utc | 154

Cynica
One final reply before we all get a reprimand by b 🙂
I have always been respectful, never called anyone here any bad word, not engaged in off-topic attacks on people here, never targeted anyone here.
I have stated what I believe, often with plentiful sources and have always kept it factual – if people dont agree with me, its fine – I do disagree with alot of people here too – I dont start target them or calling them names, I am not here to conform with my commentary – I dont know you in real life and vice versa so why would I be upset – why should you? Its childish.
However. If I have personally offended anyone here I am sorry, that was not my intent.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 22 2019 13:42 utc | 155

@james (138) Need I point out that Putin was being interviewed by Oliver Stone, indicating that there will be a significant audience for what he has to say? Of course the MSM would not pick it up, but that is true of almost anything that Putin has to say, except when they want to distort it.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 22 2019 18:00 utc | 156

@ zanon

Of course as I just said, he havent gone back. It doesnt take much to understand how a guy that repeatedly commited high treason will not be welcomed to that very nation.

And like I said, you obviously don’t know the first thing about how the spy trade works. Spies that flip can also flip back. And if they have useful information to bring with them why wouldn’t they be welcomed back? It would be stupid and self defeating of the entire intel trade not to.

You dont know russian culture on this issue obviously. Even the daughter dont dare going going back. Go figure.

And you don’t know the basics of common sense, never mind legal norms surrounding diplomatic relations like the Vienna Convention.
We have absolutely no idea if either Sergei or Yulia are being HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL.
That’s the reason for the diplomatic law on consular visits. Yulia is a Russian national. The Russian state has an obligation to her when in a foreign country to make sure she is not mistreated or unlawfully detained.
Yet Britain has refused to allow such a consular visit, in direct breach of the Vienna Convention. Naturally this shifts the focus of suspicion on the British side.
There can be no plausible reason to deny such a visit, and break international law in the process. Other than the Skripals being held against their will. That would also explain why they have not even been allowed proper media access. The one Yulia appearance was obviously tightly controlled.
Now we have information [which is not actually new] confirmed by none other than president Putin, that Skripal wanted to go back to Russia. That implies that he would be bringing information that could be damaging to Britain, and possibly the entire deep-state contrived ‘Russiagate’ narrative.
So who would have a direct MOTIVE for detaining Skripal [and his daughter] and preventing them from returning to Russia?
This story is far from over. The British crimes will be exposed sooner or later.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 22 2019 20:12 utc | 157

@158 rob… that is generally viewed as alt news and considered akin to fake news by a large % of the population.. you and i will check out the oliver stone interviews, but many others won’t.. like the movie jfk – more conspiracy theory is how it is packaged..

Posted by: james | Jul 22 2019 20:15 utc | 158

@159 flakerbandit.. thanks… good overview..

Posted by: james | Jul 22 2019 20:16 utc | 159

flakerbandit
“thanks… good overview..” hah
That Skripals’ would be held against their will is another conspiracy theory with no basis at all. Why would anyone held them? Makes no sense.
You still dont understand the underlying view that russians have on people like Skripal.
Sorry but if Putin’s comment below dont make you understand the attitude towards these people, nothing will.
VIRAL! Putin Opens Up on Skripals: “Petty Spy” Was a Bastard and Scum; A Traitor to Motherland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAhzly1ID7g
You can still imagine traitors are welcome in Russia but that is pure fantasy as I have tried to tell you now for the 3rd time.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 22 2019 22:39 utc | 160

@ nutcase zanon

That Skripals’ would be held against their will is another conspiracy theory with no basis at all.

There is literally a MOUNTAIN of ‘basis’.
Starting with the Vienna Convention. Britain is in breach of international law here.
Of course you didn’t even try to present a conceivable argument as to why Britain would breach international law.
What would happen if you traveled to some foreign country and were held incommunicado for a year under fishy circumstances?
Your country’s embassy would demand to see you in the flesh and speak to you. That’s how things work. They have that right, under the Vienna Convention.
Your entire comment is just hot air.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 23 2019 0:14 utc | 161

flankerbandit
No why would I blame UK for breaching international law when there is no proof that they are being held?
You make up so much in your head and then believe its real. Its not healthy.
Here is another proof however how traitors are judged in Russia.
Russia tells traitors they face ‘GRAVE nervous disorder’ as it says ‘you can’t hide in UK’
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/929347/russia-spy-warning-traitors-cannot-hide-uk-skripal-Salisbury

Russian TV anchor issues chilling warning to “traitors” living in Britain

https://www.joe.ie/news/russian-warning-traitors-britain-618853

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 10:15 utc | 162

So, Russians are indicted on “judging” traitors.
What a crime!
How dare them!!!
Traitors should be honoured and rewarded!
One a more serious note, Zanon above claims that warning is proof of crime, that only those do warn who will later implement their warnings by their own blood-stained hands.
So, when next time US State Dept or UK Foreign Ministry would issue some warning to tourists – remember, it was the prove that US or UK government are planning to murder all those tourists.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 23 2019 16:10 utc | 163

@105 Zanon “that is how you do it if you want my attention.”
You flatter yourself.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 21 2019 22:11 utc | 153
Judging by his handle he surely has a high esteem of himself, but then who doesn’t?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_of_Elea

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 23 2019 16:19 utc | 164

Arioch
Indeed, but then you might have understood the point that these people will never be welcomed in Russia. Go figure why traitors in Russia throughout cold war (and before) had to live in exile after their commited crime.
As Putin said: “Vladimir Putin: I have no idea. He is a spy, after all. He is always in hiding.”
Zeno is completely different word than Zanon. Its Z + Anon. Its not more complicated than that. 🙂

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 16:40 utc | 165

Zeno – is an English specific reduction, the normal name (and sometimes used on English too) is Zenon. Thus it is not completely different but merely one a-e substitution away from Z|anon

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 23 2019 17:07 utc | 166

> these people will never be welcomed in Russia
“not being welcomed” is not the same as “being murdered at the slightest chance they might want to go back”, very far from it
I agree with this particular claim and already told above @122 that for Putin there would be no joy in Skrypal’s return. Maybe some questionable and limited “profit”, but nothing of pleasure and lot of trouble.
However I totally disagree with your “stretching an owl to put a globe inside” that if Russians do not welcome someone then they would be trying to kill him, unless he or they dead.
More so, even if that could be correct and if Russians really would have been trying to kill Skrypal, even then Putin’s crime would not be proved. Whatever Putin could be trying to achieve it is well possible that anyone else achieved it faster.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 23 2019 17:13 utc | 167

Arioch
Yes indeed, alot of trouble would likely ensure, of that we can agree, if that situation of course, would ever occur.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 17:21 utc | 168

> …. confirmed by none other than president Putin, that Skripal wanted to go back to Russia.
Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 22 2019 20:12 utc | 159
As was already pointed above, Putin, being a lawyer among other things, used a very careful wording to avoid confirming anything. He said a non-confirmation.
> That implies that he would be bringing information that could be damaging to Britain
What do you mean by “bring”? Possess inside his mind and his memory? Or would trade something tangible to Russian intelligence?
In both case it was “hinted” not “implied”.
Skrypal might know something harmful to today UK government, but he also could had been kept in UK away from any real secrets.
Coming back to Russia could be conditioned on some information trade but it also could be unconditional no, or it could be unconditional yes (for example, out of mercy or to preempt potential media Scandal “pobrecito Skrypal wants home evil Putin slams the door” kind).
Yulia Skrypal is definitely Russian citizen however it is not granted that she is loyal citizen and that overly active attempts of Russian state to protect her would not backfire. She seem to happen between rock and a hard place, but it is not clear which side she dislikes less, UK or Russia, if Russia would try to force he hand and make a binary choice.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 23 2019 17:24 utc | 169

@ nutcase zanon

…why would I blame UK for breaching international law when there is no proof that they are being held?

The mere act of denying a consular visit is breach of international law.
They don’t have to be holding anyone against their will, but simply denying a consular visit is against international law.
I have already explained this, but you have no argument, so you try to pretend that the issue is something else.
The whole thing could be cleared up in five minutes. The Russian consul is brought to a secure location and asks Yulia if she’s alright. If she says ‘yes, I’m fine’ that’s the end of it. The consul goes home and the British show the world that they are not holding her against her will.
But the British refuse this. FOR WHAT POSSIBLE REASON?
The only possible reason is that Yulia might say ‘I want to go home.’
Then the world would see proof of the British foul play [which most of the world suspects already anyway].
Please don’t bother me anymore with your grade school level nonsense and your silly videos, which prove nothing, nor even imply anything.
These are the facts. A Russian citizen is being kept incommunicado and is being denied a consular visit, in breach of international law. End of story.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 23 2019 19:15 utc | 170

flankerbandit
As of today Yulia have not sought help, if you checked the video where she talks, she says she do not want any “help” by Russia at this stage.
Somehow that, along with other incoherent conrpiracy talk turns out in your head that she is “held against her will”. I believe I said this 4 times now, if you still not get it after reading this sentence do not bother replying to me, I am at loss helping you. Sorry 🙂

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 19:34 utc | 171

@zanon.. the video – possibility staged and possibility where she is under duress ( you can’t rule any of this out!) – is from a year and a half ago.. you can’t accept everything you hear at face value.. in fact, in the real world – this is the last thing a person would do..
on the other hand – flankerbandit is highlighting the illegal actions of the uk gov’t with regard to this.. of that there is silence from you… it’s no wonder folks have given over to seeing you as a troll or wose – complete ignoramus… you might be a sweet person, but your avoidance of details that conflict with a literal read on everything must indeed be very challenging for you…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6XgKrPe3s

Posted by: james | Jul 23 2019 20:06 utc | 172

@ Zanon
Why it is so important to you, evidently knowing so little about it in the beginning of the discussion, to convince others that Skripals are not being held ?
The reality of this is rather complicated. They are obviously in custody with tightly controlled access, + (likely) still in medical treatment. Yulia’s only media appearance was obviously a controlled one. Their phone and internet access is controlled, with Victoria and Sergey’s mother not having means to initiate a conversation, only to receive it; while with friends, there are only rumors.
Now, what Yulia wants, in those circumstances may be really complicated. She did say that she wants to return to Russia eventualy, and she did say that she does not want to see embassy people, in that managed media appearance. What she wants only herself knows; her communications are controlled, and it is not up to you to define the meaning of this situation

Posted by: Don Karlos | Jul 23 2019 20:16 utc | 173

@ James

…the video – possibility staged and possibility where she is under duress ( you can’t rule any of this out!)

Exactly!
ISIS also makes hostage videos, where people say all kinds of stuff, including praise for their captors.
And ISIS likewise doesn’t permit consular visits. The entire point of a consular visit is to ensure there is no duress involved.
The conclusion is inescapable. Only a government with something to hide would deny a consular visit.

Posted by: flankerbandit | Jul 23 2019 20:19 utc | 174

flankerbandit @176–
“The conclusion is inescapable. Only a government with something to hide would deny a consular visit.”
That was given from the first and remains so. That’s why I call the situation a kidnapping, which in this case might be considered a Capital Crime since during its commission a person connected to the overall act died. But the UK government has committed similar Capital Crimes in the past and gotten away with them–the Chagos Islanders being one of the most heinous and recent.
Although I hope they’re alive, the Skripals are essentially dead as they’ll never see their homeland or other relations ever again unless through an extraordinary stroke of good fortune occurs. I’m reminded of The Prisoner and his, albeit fictional, plight.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 23 2019 21:06 utc | 175

@ don karlos – flankerbandit – karlof1… clearly we’re all in close agreement! meanwhile zanon tilts at windmills wanting to maintain the ignoramus position… it’s impressive!!

Posted by: james | Jul 23 2019 21:25 utc | 176

james
Thank you for your interest in my post. I havent “early on” argued for that, if you go back you would see that I responded to a claim that was made that she was, held.
Now there is no evidence that they are being held, this a fantasy to uphold to justify your way of reasoning.
So by claiming she is “held” you block yourself by reasoning more logically, i.e. she do NOT want to meet any Russian working for the state.
Some more flaws with your argument:
1. The Video is “obviously controlled” you say, showing no evidence of such claims
2 They are in “custody” you say, without showing any evidence
3 You say it is “not up to me to judge”, but apparently up to you and people that have the same view that you have on this issue. I will of course say what I want, you simply have to log out if my posts are making you doubt your fantasies 🙂

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 21:39 utc | 177

james
Yes conform, keep the echo-chamber alive! 🙂

“Echo chamber” is a term widely used in today’s lexicon, that describes a situation where certain ideas, beliefs or data points are reinforced through repetition of a closed system that does not allow for the free movement of alternative or competing ideas or concepts. In an echo chamber, there is the implication that certain ideas or outcomes win out because of an inherent unfairness in how input is gathered.

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/23423/echo-chamber

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 23 2019 21:44 utc | 178

zanon.. last post to you.. i will ignore your stupidity by not responding.. you can do likewise… happy trails..

Posted by: james | Jul 23 2019 22:49 utc | 179

> she do NOT want to meet any Russian working for the state.
Which other Russians, not “working for the state”, did she see since kidnapped? in free safe environment preferably.
> 1. The Video is “obviously controlled” you say, showing no evidence of such claims
There is no evidence people in merry orange dresses in ISIS videos were controlled.
> 2 They are in “custody” you say, without showing any evidence
There is no evidence people in orange dresses on ISIS videos were in custody.
> 3 You say it is “not up to me to judge”, but apparently up to you and people that have the same view
We are not judging what Yulia or Her Majesty Pirate Queen “want” – we indeed can only guess it, we are judging what they DID, or failed to do, or were denied to do.
HMPQ’s government deny consular access to Yulia Skripal. That is not “wish”, that is “deed”.
Yulia Skripal said HMPQ’s government would prohibit her sister seeing it by denying her visa – and HMPQ’s government did just that, not wanted to do but actually did.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 24 2019 8:56 utc | 180

james
Thank you very much, that will reduce the bs in the comment section.
arioch
Being under proection she will of course take precaution on who she meet, at the same time we dont know who she have met or not though.
You should also understand that being in custody is indeed mandatory, protective custody is however voluntary, thus she cannot be “held against her will” as you claim.
Circular resoning on ISIS comparsion : “X is true because of Y. Y is true because of X.”. You see, it doesnt work.

Posted by: Zanon | Jul 24 2019 10:21 utc | 181