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July 4, 2019
Open Thread 2019-37
News & views …
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At last, a dramatic military operation against Iran, assault on an oil tanker: Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 4 2019 15:54 utc | 1 How much lower can the UK go? The Tory government, with its Blairite allies in in a limbo dancing contest with the Liberals in Ottawa. The winner gets to lick Netanyahu’s boots. Posted by: bevin | Jul 4 2019 16:26 utc | 2 I’m curious to see how Iran will respond to England seizing their ships as this behaviour is traditionally considered an act of war and the UK is in an even weaker position than the US in the Middle East. As I recall, the UK just returned their ambassador to Iran a couple years ago after boycotting them for several years. At the very least I imagine Iran will expel a couple of the UK spies at the embassy. For bonus points the EU looks even more toothless and pathetic as the US is ordering a EU member around like a hired thug to undermine the official EU policy on Iran. Posted by: Kadath | Jul 4 2019 16:26 utc | 3 BDS Got to say this before the D and R’s make it illegal. Free Assange and too many others. Truth is good. Wage Peace, and thank you moon children ! Posted by: ChuckNoBomb | Jul 4 2019 16:33 utc | 4 As I expected, Pepe Escobar reviews the situation in a calm fashion with his usual whimsical flair by tying the ill-fated Russian submersible into the dialog. He links through Politico (an excellent use of tongue-in-cheek) to last May’s scurrilous Pentagon Report regarding Russia’s intentions some of us waded through. Appropriately, Pepe focused on the EU-3 as they’re the key players to preserving peace in this contrived crisis. As for TrumpCo, it’s Outlaw US Empire SOP of sowing chaos from a playbook well known by the intended targets, which is why nothing happened with yesterday’s provocation. Now we have the UK doing the provoking when they ought to be buying enriched uranium! And the beat goes on….. Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 4 2019 16:53 utc | 5 Perfect day – US of A birthday – for an emotionally potent false-flag. Posted by: librul | Jul 4 2019 17:00 utc | 6 karlof1 @6: This does seem inconsistent with the JCPOA, seizing the tanker, which Britain claims to want to support. I’m on tenterhooks waiting for the reactions in foreign capitals to start coming in. Thnx for Pepe link. Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 4 2019 17:06 utc | 7 the Houthi are now claiming to have destroyed a US made patriot missile system in Saudi Arabia, regardless of the actual track record of the Patriot missile system in combat they certainly won’t work against Iranian missiles if the Houthi destroy the launchers. If true, this would significantly weaken Saudi Arabia’s air defensives in the event of a US war on Iran. This looks like the Iranians are slowly increasing support for the Houthi as part of their counter pressure strategy on the US/Saudi/Israel axis. Posted by: Kadath | Jul 4 2019 17:07 utc | 8 Hawkish media scribes in Canada have spent the past week lambasting China and decrying what they describe as weakness and timidity on the part of the federal government over China’s “attacks” on Canadian interests. Arm Taiwan! Send more naval ships to South China Sea! Free Hong Kong! The sneaky detention of one of China’s top business executives and extradition hearings to hand her over to the Americans on sketchy “bank fraud” charges based on unilateral sanction programs eight years ago? Just a procedural matter, just the rule of law at work… Ugly chauvinism at work, but an isolated, angry, and futile dominion appears to be what the country’s elite establishment really want. Posted by: jayc | Jul 4 2019 17:09 utc | 9 Spain’s caretaker Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said the British targeted the tanker on a request from the US. He added that Spain, which considers the waters off Gibraltar as its own, was assessing the implications of the operation. Posted by: james | Jul 4 2019 17:10 utc | 10 @1 Allegedly(?), this oil tanker sailed from Basra in Iraq (not Iran) and remarkably went around Africa rather than sail through the Suez, and further it allegedly also turned it’s transponder off(?)… as usual, we’ll have to wait for real facts to emerge. It’s still quite unusual to intercept an oil tanker so blatantly when much more nefarious shipments are going on. Posted by: Ant. | Jul 4 2019 17:13 utc | 11 Don’t worry, Putin- apologists. Russia will call the UK’s brazen act of piracy “regrettable”. No doubt Russia will call on ‘both sides’ to show ‘restraint’. Maybe, if Iran pleads submissively enough, they could get some s-400s that don’t/won’t work to upgrade their s-300s that don’t/won’t work. Posted by: paul | Jul 4 2019 17:14 utc | 12 Nearly half of global wages received by top 10%, survey finds: ILO says bottom half of all workers paid just 6% of total pay with wage inequality rising in developed world
jayc @10 Posted by: spudski | Jul 4 2019 17:19 utc | 14 As Tulsi Gabbard outlines the steps Trump has taken to manufacture consent to war with Iran. Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2019 17:21 utc | 15 Meanwhile, the EU proves it is not only undemocratic, but also decadent: Grace1 tanker was being tracked for a long time Posted by: gzon | Jul 4 2019 17:28 utc | 17 The Terrorist Lobe Of The Liberal Mind by William Skink Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2019 17:29 utc | 18 Trump recently insulted the Spain Prime Minister, that may help Iran
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 17:37 utc | 19 A curiosity (for the people who want to hear the other side of the story): Just to note Grace1 is anchored off the south east of Gibraltar, within the 3 mile Gibraltar limit now, I don’t know if she was stopped inside that zone, or why she would venture into that 3 mile zone. In short it will be important to know what position she was when boarded, the only info I have is that she veered hard to port into the Gibraltar 3 mile limit, but am not sure if before or after being boarded. The Spanish government has said it tolerates Gibraltar “acting in its waters” in this case because the action was based on EU sanctions. Posted by: gzon | Jul 4 2019 17:48 utc | 22 current news – TOLONews Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 17:50 utc | 23 @ 23 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 17:56 utc | 24 Global Times looks into Trump’s overlooked rant during the post-G20 presser about the Treaty between Japan and Outlaw US Empire, which I found enlightening since that relationship isn’t written about often. An important point to remember is the role of that treaty in blocking the ability of Russia and Japan to reach their treaty formally ending WW2–the potential for Outlaw US Empire forces to be placed on Kuril islands since Japan doesn’t have full sovereignty. Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 4 2019 18:00 utc | 25 @ 26 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 18:06 utc | 26 The significant hawkish wing of Canada’s establishment rejects the policy of diversified economy based on international trade, and prefers to become a belligerent junior partner in the Anglo 5 Eyes hegemony project. M.K. Bhadrakumar posted a fascinating article yesterday on one facet of this project – detailing how the U.S. meddles in Sri Lankan affairs with the goal of establishing unwanted military facilities: Posted by: jayc | Jul 4 2019 18:13 utc | 27 SyrianaAnalysis founder Kevork Almassian spins the tanker arrest thusly: Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 4 2019 18:20 utc | 28 @20 the right don’t like Sanchez, old story of Spain. At the moment there is no proper government, has been like this for a few years, lots of elections and changes and stalemates. Even now after elections Sanchez is minority in parliament and not sure if he can form a stable government. People keep voting till they get it right I suppose, it’s the EU way. I don’t think the Spanish are very concerned for Iran at all, the antiwar movement is a feature of the country, but only more vocal when own country participating, as in Iraq. Posted by: gzon | Jul 4 2019 18:24 utc | 29 Magnier tweeted this Posted by: lgfocus | Jul 4 2019 18:25 utc | 30 On the Russian sub that was involved in the accident. Posted by: lgfocus | Jul 4 2019 18:36 utc | 32 The other night at the dead end of the MoA Week in Review open thread was posted a comment which read in part: Posted by: donkeytale | Jul 4 2019 18:45 utc | 33 Thanks to Karl Ruane Sorry for the long text, in my opinion PM May is once again breaching International law. Posted by: Harry Law | Jul 4 2019 18:55 utc | 34 There’s a good interview with Michael Hudson regarding the World Bank and the IMF at Naked Capitalism today. An excerpt: Posted by: spudski | Jul 4 2019 19:07 utc | 35 Link above to Oxford public International law was cutoff, please see below: Posted by: Harry Law | Jul 4 2019 19:08 utc | 36 @34 Thank you Harry Law for the details. Posted by: theosch | Jul 4 2019 19:08 utc | 37 @34 Thank you Harry Law for the details. Posted by: theosch | Jul 4 2019 19:08 utc | 38 re: Freedom of Navigation and “threats” Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 19:21 utc | 39 re Paul #13 Posted by: Harry | Jul 4 2019 19:31 utc | 40 orders — international and rules-based
recent news
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 19:34 utc | 41 @Harry Law: Thanks for the detailed background infos! Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Jul 4 2019 19:37 utc | 42 “Goodbye Dollar, It Was Nice Knowing You!” Posted by: farm ecologist | Jul 4 2019 19:38 utc | 43 @Harry 40 Posted by: gzon | Jul 4 2019 19:48 utc | 44 The seizure of the vessel prob. has more to do with the race for Tory-leadership between Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson. Nevertheless it is an outrage. Iran needs to order an extra fleet of drones for stationing somewhere near Gibraltar… Posted by: bjd | Jul 4 2019 20:15 utc | 45 “In fact, we have reason to believe that the Grace 1 was carrying its shipment of crude oil to the Banyas [Banias] Refinery in Syria,” said Gibraltar’s Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, in a statement issued in the early hours of Thursday. “That refinery is the property of an entity that is subject to European Union sanctions against Syria.”. .here Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 20:27 utc | 46 Another criticism of the UK act of piracy: Posted by: Krollchem | Jul 4 2019 20:32 utc | 47 Tried to post this yesterday; it got deleted, don’t know why, so trying one more time … Posted by: David G | Jul 4 2019 20:35 utc | 48 So while accusing Iran of threatening traffic in the Strait of Hormuz, the US via its UK whore stops an Iranian tanker in the Strait of Gibraltar… that is a head-slapping moment. Posted by: fx | Jul 4 2019 20:49 utc | 49 EU unilateral sanctions against Iran or Syria, just as US unilateral sanctions against both are against international law since they do not have all five veto wielding powers on board, but even if they had, a separate UNSC Resolution would be needed to mount a blockade, which is a real act of war and which the Iranians cannot let go unanswered, otherwise all Iranian oil shipments could be blockaded or subjected to acts of piracy on the high seas. Posted by: Harry Law | Jul 4 2019 21:07 utc | 51 Frederick Douglass: What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July? Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2019 21:09 utc | 52 @paul 12 Posted by: Uncle Jon | Jul 4 2019 21:17 utc | 53 @ CarlD 50 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 21:24 utc | 54 uncle jon, please don’t contradict paul. Posted by: albagen | Jul 4 2019 21:25 utc | 55 Okay, I’ve been surfing the news and see a lot of “July 4th” and “4th of July” but I hardly ever see the name of the holiday which is Independence Day. Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 21:51 utc | 56 Background on why the UK committed an act of piracy in taking the oil tanker: Posted by: Krollchem | Jul 4 2019 21:54 utc | 57 No one needs to be a legal scholar to recognize what the Anglo-Zionist did in seizing the Iranian oil tanker, it simple gangsterism. The Anglo-Zionist gangster stole over 8 billions in assets from Venezuela earlier this year even before their clownish coup attempt. The Anglo-Zionist empire is just a gangster empire. The same international criminal cabal controls Trump, Netanyahu and Putin. Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 22:05 utc | 59 Spudski@35 Posted by: Pft | Jul 4 2019 22:09 utc | 60 Could Iranian oil be shipped across the Caspian to Russia and then in Russian tankers to Syria? Posted by: lysias | Jul 4 2019 22:16 utc | 61 >>>>: gzon | Jul 4 2019 19:48 utc | 44
Wouldn’t have touched it with a barge pole, mate. That far into Gilbraltarian waters and such a big juicy target, the Iranians are up to something but I can’t guess what yet. But the British Conservative government is collectively so stupid and hubristic that it just couldn’t stay away. Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jul 4 2019 22:17 utc | 62 And you don’t need a PhD in economics to understand that the engine of capitalism is cheap labor. The cheapest labor possible is straight up slavery. Thus multinationals scour the planet searching for the cheapest labor possible. Once automation is fully implemented of course the great overlords will need to kill off the unnecessary excess humans best way to do this is through contrived wars. Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 22:18 utc | 63 The Spanish Foreign Minister said the Brits acted because the U.S. asked them to. Posted by: lysias | Jul 4 2019 22:20 utc | 64 @bemildred #1 Posted by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 22:21 utc | 65 Uncle Jon @ 53: Posted by: Jen | Jul 4 2019 22:22 utc | 66 The soldiers who fight in contrived wars can always point their weapons in the opposite direction if they realize that the purpose of the wars is to kill them off. Posted by: lysias | Jul 4 2019 22:23 utc | 67 @Pft #60 Posted by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 22:26 utc | 68 65 Posted by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 22:21 utc | 65 Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 22:31 utc | 70 >>>>: lysias | Jul 4 2019 22:16 utc | 61
Provided the Iranians had access to Russian-flagged 5,000 ton tankers which could pass through the Volga-Don Canal, the Iranians could ship the oil directly. According to Wikipedia the dimensions of the ships should be as follows:
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jul 4 2019 22:38 utc | 71 “The soldiers who fight in contrived wars can always point their weapons in the opposite direction if they realize that the purpose of the wars is to kill them off.” Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 22:39 utc | 72 This is interesting Posted by: Pft | Jul 4 2019 22:40 utc | 73 Interesting that in today’s geopolitics the democracies are the unruly, spoiled brats and the authoritarian “regimes” are the well behaved swots. What does this say about the ability of democracies to move competent people into positions of power? Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 4 2019 22:43 utc | 74 C1ue@68 Posted by: Pft | Jul 4 2019 22:47 utc | 75 Posted by: aspnaz | Jul 4 2019 22:43 utc | 74 Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 22:53 utc | 76 Lysias @ 61: Posted by: Jen | Jul 4 2019 22:55 utc | 77 The UK has committed an out and out act of war. Will Putin call it that openly and forcefully, as only he can do? Will he call on the UK to back off, as international law and human decency requires? Posted by: paul | Jul 4 2019 23:02 utc | 78 @Pft #75 Posted by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 23:19 utc | 79 osted by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 23:19 utc | 79 Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 23:25 utc | 80 @ Ghost Ship 62 Posted by: gzon | Jul 4 2019 23:26 utc | 81 @ apnaz 74 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jul 4 2019 23:33 utc | 82 O @ 63 Posted by: spudski | Jul 4 2019 23:36 utc | 83 c1ue @65: Merkel and Macron I expect are happy with it, but not publically. Merkel is trying to balance and maintain independence, Macron has giant ego and wants to own Syria. Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 4 2019 23:48 utc | 84 Posted by: spudski | Jul 4 2019 23:36 utc | 83 Posted by: O | Jul 4 2019 23:55 utc | 85 What the West has is not democracy. The ancient Greeks recognized that the democratic way to choose officials and representatives is the way the Athenians did it, by lot from the whole citizen body, whereas electing them is an aristocratic/oligarchic way. Posted by: lysias | Jul 5 2019 0:19 utc | 87 Posted by: Jen | Jul 4 2019 22:55 utc | 77 Posted by: Passer by | Jul 5 2019 0:25 utc | 88 Interesting that in today’s geopolitics the democracies are the unruly, spoiled brats and the authoritarian “regimes” are the well behaved swots. Posted by: Passer by | Jul 5 2019 0:35 utc | 89 The point of using Russian tankers is that nobody would dare attack them. Posted by: lysias | Jul 5 2019 0:39 utc | 90 Passer By @ 88: Posted by: Jen | Jul 5 2019 0:49 utc | 91 This is a deliberate provocation by the UK government at the behest of the US, previous provocations having failed. The US, who had been tracking the tanker, got its UK vassal to do its dirty work. The Iranians are now in a deep bind, respond to the provocation [which was an act of war] and possibly set off a catastrophic war which the US/UK would blame on Iran, or do nothing which will invite another provocation. Posted by: Harry Law | Jul 5 2019 0:58 utc | 93 More expensive than what was attempted, supplying Syria with Iranian oil from a Panamanian-flagged tanker that rounded Africa and crossed the Med? Posted by: lysias | Jul 5 2019 0:58 utc | 94 Are those Iran’s only two choices? Is there no international court in which Iran can sue for compensation? Posted by: lysias | Jul 5 2019 1:02 utc | 95 Posted by: Jen | Jul 5 2019 0:49 utc | 91 Posted by: Passer by | Jul 5 2019 1:07 utc | 96 This just published today, relating to Jun 22 and could not find other reference: Posted by: gzon | Jul 5 2019 1:10 utc | 97 I used to spend a lot of time in Istanbul in the 1980s. At last at that time, tankers were going through the Bosphorus all the time. Posted by: lysias | Jul 5 2019 1:12 utc | 98 @Pft #60 <=You should read the full interview.
Among other things, Hudson notes that his writing of "Super Imperialism" and other books was to help the 99% understand what that 1% are doing, and why. And that sadly, rather than educating the 99% - the 1% wannabes are adopting it as an instruction manual. by: c1ue | Jul 4 2019 22:26 utc | 68
There is though something much bigger than a world war.. the war may or may not happen.. that bigger is happening right now as we speak. Its the global implementation of high density, pulsed frequency electromagnet systems (cell towers in every home) ; of greater concern than the known 8.4-5 X neuro impediments in moms, the genetic losses to children when mothers of unborn are exposed before giving birth and children up to 17 years of age.. Cancers, Alzheimer and Autism and not very pleasant but ignoring all of that, what we are talking about is putting 10s of millions of 5g antennas Posted by: snake | Jul 5 2019 1:16 utc | 99 I do not buy Korybko’s view that Russia is using blackmailing tactics to force Iran to leave Syria. Posted by: O | Jul 5 2019 1:17 utc | 100 |
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