Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 09, 2019

Isikoff, Who First Peddled The Fake Steele Dossier, Invents New 'Russian Influence' Story

Michael Isikoff was the first reporter who peddled the fake Steele dossier about alleged Russian influence over Donald Trump. He later admitted that the claims therein were 'likely false'. Today Isikoff came up with a new fake story about 'Russian influence'.

Isikoff claims that the conspiracy theory, that Seth Rich, a DNC staffer, was killed because he stole the DNC emails which Wikileaks later published, was planted by Russia's foreign intelligence service.

Exclusive: The true origins of the Seth Rich conspiracy theory.

WASHINGTON — In the summer of 2016, Russian intelligence agents secretly planted a fake report claiming that Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich was gunned down by a squad of assassins working for Hillary Clinton, giving rise to a notorious conspiracy theory that captivated conservative activists and was later promoted from inside President Trump’s White House, a Yahoo News investigation has found.

Russia’s foreign intelligence service, known as the SVR, first circulated a phony “bulletin” — disguised to read as a real intelligence report —about the alleged murder of the former DNC staffer on July 13, 2016, according to the U.S. federal prosecutor who was in charge of the Rich case. That was just three days after Rich, 27, was killed in what police believed was a botched robbery while walking home to his group house in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington, D.C., about 30 blocks north of the Capitol.

Isikoff points to the whacky website WhatDoesItMean.com. On July 13 2016 it published this:

A somber Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) report circulating in the Kremlin today says that a top American Democratic Party staffer preparing to testify against Hillary Clinton was assassinated this past Sunday during a secret meeting in Washington D.C. he believed he was having with Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agents, but who turned out, instead, to be a “hit team”—and who, in turn, were captured yesterday after a running gun battle with US federal police forces just blocks from the White House.

According to this report, SVR “electronic specialists” performing counter intelligence “missions/operations” noted on 7 July an “enormous/gigantic” increase of computer and telephonic traffic between the Democratic National Committee (DNC) headquarters in Washington D.C. and the Clinton Foundation (CF) offices in New York City.

That report, says Isikoff, was planted by the SVR and was the first to make the connection between the murder of Seth Rich and his work at the Democrat National Councils (DNC).

Isikoff also quotes Deborah Sines, "the former assistant U.S. attorney in charge of the Rich case until her retirement last year":

In her efforts to better understand where the conspiracy theories were coming from, Sines used her security clearance to access copies of two SVR intelligence reports about Seth Rich that had been intercepted by U.S. intelligence officials. She later wrote a memo documenting the Russian role in fomenting the conspiracy theories that she sent to the Justice Department’s national security division, and personally briefed special counsel Robert Mueller’s prosecutors on her findings.

It is doubtful that Mrs. Sines security clearance allows her to publicize what SVR intelligence reports, or phony SVR bulletins, U.S. intelligence services intercept and read.

The claim that 'Russia' started the Seth Rich conspiracy story via that whacky website can be easily debunked. That websites version, that Seth Rich was supposed to meat FBI agents, never gained credence. It was also not the first, as Isikoff claims.

Washington Post reporter Philip Bump finds that at least six U.S. persons publicly made claims that connected the Seth Rich murder to Hillary Clinton before the whacky website published its version. That is not astonishing at all. The idea of a 'Clinton body count' has been around for decades.

Isikoff also claims that 'Russian trolls' pushed the story:

At the same time, online trolls working in St. Petersburg, Russia, for the Internet Research Agency (IRA) — the same shadowy outfit that conducted the Russian social media operation during the 2016 election — aggressively boosted the conspiracy theories. IRA-created fake accounts, masquerading as those of American citizens or political groups, tweeted and retweeted more than 2,000 times about Rich, helping to keep the bogus claims about his death in the social media bloodstream, according to an analysis of a database of Russia troll accounts by Yahoo News.

But Philip Bump finds a different number:

A search of the Russian tweets conducted by The Post finds only 640 tweets mentioning “Seth Rich.” Most of those tweets came well after the election.

More than half of the IRA tweets on Seth Rich were sent in August 2017. They came after Fox News and Steve Bannon had publicly peddled the conspiracy theory.

The IRA is a commercial advertisement company. Its fictitious online personalities create web traffic to sell ads. That activity has nothing to do with the Russian government. In the criminal case against the IRA owner Concord a federal judge recently confirmed that there is no evidence that connects the IRA activity to the Russian government. The judge criticizes that the Mueller investigation made the claim:

In short, the Court concludes that the government violated Rule 57.7 by making or authorizing the release of public statements that linked the defendants’ alleged activities to the Russian government and provided an opinion about the defendants’ guilt and the evidence against them. The Court will therefore proceed to consider the appropriate response to that violation, beginning with the possibility of contempt.

That Seth Rich was wacked because he stole the DNC emails and transferred them to Wikileaks is a conspiracy theory. It is possible and even plausible, but there is no evidence to confirm it. Many people seem to believe it because it makes more sense than the competing conspiracy theory, that Russia hacked the DNC and handed the emails to Wikileaks. Isikoff's claim, that Russia planted the Rich conspiracy theory, has no sound base. That theory existed before anything 'Russian' mentioned it.

Philip Bump concludes:

It’s eternally tempting to suggest that out-there ideas like the Rich conspiracies were a function of nefarious external actors like Russian intelligence officials. That text from Bannon, though, underlines the more anodyne truth: It was politically useful for a number of people to hype the allegations at the expense of Rich’s reputation.

Posted by b on July 9, 2019 at 18:12 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »

I just read on Zerohedge that Egypt has seized a tanker carrying Iranian crude. Coming on top of the British piracy in Gibraltar last week, b's thesis that the Iranains are serious about disrupting oil supplies through the Persian Gulf is going to be tested.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas | Jul 9 2019 18:16 utc | 1

Ctrl-F "Seymour Hersh". No responses.

Hmm. For those who haven't heard his perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giuZdBAXVh0

Related article from 2017. https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/seymour-hersh-owes-the-world-an-explanation-for-his-seth-rich-comments-f9b2756123d3

Posted by: asdf | Jul 9 2019 18:28 utc | 2

@ b who wrote
"
That Seth Rich was wacked because he stole the DNC emails and transferred them to Wikileaks is a conspiracy theory.
"
I am one who believes that conspiracy theory and appreciate any efforts to find out who killed Seth Rich

Thanks for the posting

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 9 2019 18:43 utc | 3

The mere fact that they are trying to debunk it lends it credence. By the way anyone who didn't make the connection the moment they heard of Rich's murder is an idiot. No need for fake news. Since the emails were downloaaded and not hacked it had to have been somebody in the DNC. Any other candidates?

Posted by: Michael Doliner | Jul 9 2019 18:44 utc | 4

That Seth Rich was wacked because he stole the DNC emails and transferred them to Wikileaks is a conspiracy theory.

Unfortunately, you are falling into an age-old trap here. The fact that the theory is not proven doesn't make it a "conspiracy".

You may want to read Ron Unz on the subject (see here: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-how-the-cia-invented-conspiracy-theories/ )

Posted by: mh505 | Jul 9 2019 18:50 utc | 5

Oh c'mon, B. This is worse than your idea that the false-flag attacks on the tankers was in fact Iran's doing.

There is in fact evidence, good solid evidence that I have not seen refuted anywhere, that Seth Rich did in fact download the DNC emails onto some external physical device like a thumb drive, whereupon it was transferred to Wikileaks. (Whether he was "whacked" for it, or at least for that specifically, is a different question.) This is from Veterans Intelligence Professionals for Sanity:

"We Do Forensics

"Recent forensic examination of the Wikileaks DNC files shows they were created on 23, 25 and 26 May 2016. (On June 12, Julian Assange announced he had them; WikiLeaks published them on July 22.) We recently discovered that the files reveal a FAT (File Allocation Table) system property. This shows that the data had been transferred to an external storage device, such as a thumb drive, before WikiLeaks posted them.

"FAT is a simple file system named for its method of organization, the File Allocation Table. It is used for storage only and is not related to internet transfers like hacking. Were WikiLeaks to have received the DNC files via a hack, the last modified times on the files would be a random mixture of odd-and even-ending numbers.

"Why is that important? The evidence lies in the “last modified” time stamps on the Wikileaks files. When a file is stored under the FAT file system the software rounds the time to the nearest even-numbered second. Every single one of the time stamps in the DNC files on WikiLeaks’ site ends in an even number.

"We have examined 500 DNC email files stored on the Wikileaks site. All 500 files end in an even number—2, 4, 6, 8 or 0. If those files had been hacked over the Internet, there would be an equal probability of the time stamp ending in an odd number. The random probability that FAT was not used is 1 chance in 2 to the 500th power. Thus, these data show that the DNC emails posted by WikiLeaks went through a storage device, like a thumb drive, and were physically moved before Wikileaks posted the emails on the World Wide Web.

"This finding alone is enough to raise reasonable doubts, for example, about Mueller’s indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers for hacking the DNC emails given to WikiLeaks. A defense attorney could easily use the forensics to argue that someone copied the DNC files to a storage device like a USB thumb drive and got them physically to WikiLeaks — not electronically via a hack."

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/03/13/vips-muellers-forensics-free-findings/

Read the whole article for a complete dissassembly of the Mueller report's shortcomings, and there are plenty ~a

VIPS is composed of serious ex-professionals who were once at the highest techical levels of the US intelligence machine. Here's who they are:

William Binney, former NSA Technical Director for World Geopolitical & Military Analysis; Co-founder of NSA’s Signals Intelligence Automation Research Center (ret.) --He did the Wikileaks/DNC metadata analysis mentioned above ~a

Richard H. Black, Senator of Virginia, 13th District; Colonel US Army (ret.); Former Chief, Criminal Law Division, Office of the Judge Advocate General, the Pentagon (associate VIPS)

Bogdan Dzakovic, former Team Leader of Federal Air Marshals and Red Team, FAA Security (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Philip Giraldi, CIA, Operations Officer (ret.)

Mike Gravel, former Adjutant, top secret control officer, Communications Intelligence Service; special agent of the Counter Intelligence Corps and former United States Senator

James George Jatras, former U.S. diplomat and former foreign policy adviser to Senate leadership (Associate VIPS)

Larry C. Johnson, former CIA and State Department Counter Terrorism officer

John Kiriakou, former CIA Counterterrorism Officer and former senior investigator, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Karen Kwiatkowski, former Lt. Col., US Air Force (ret.), at Office of Secretary of Defense watching the manufacture of lies on Iraq, 2001-2003

Edward Loomis, Cryptologic Computer Scientist, former Technical Director at NSA (ret.)

David MacMichael, Ph.D., former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence Council (ret.)

Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst; CIA Presidential briefer (ret.)

Elizabeth Murray, former Deputy National Intelligence Officer for the Near East, National Intelligence Council & CIA political analyst (ret.)

Todd E. Pierce, MAJ, US Army Judge Advocate (ret.)

Peter Van Buren, US Department of State, Foreign Service Officer (ret.) (associate VIPS)

Sarah G. Wilton, CDR, USNR, (ret.); Defense Intelligence Agency (ret.)

Kirk Wiebe, former Senior Analyst, SIGINT Automation Research Center, NSA

Ann Wright, retired U.S. Army reserve colonel and former U.S. diplomat who resigned in 2003 in opposition to the Iraq War

Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) is made up of former intelligence officers, diplomats, military officers and congressional staffers. The organization, founded in 2002, was among the first critics of Washington’s justifications for launching a war against Iraq. VIPS advocates a US foreign and national security policy based on genuine national interests rather than contrived threats promoted for largely political reasons. An archive of VIPS memoranda is available at Consortiumnews.com.

Posted by: Alan McLemore | Jul 9 2019 18:53 utc | 6

i hope Michael Isikoff is getting a good fee from the cia for peddling this shit... keep on regurgitating the same tired stories with the russian ira advertising company in on the scam and etc. etc... you would figure people would find his stories meaningless pap and a distraction at this point in time... and some of us do..muellers investigation was a complete sham for not asking the right people the right questions, but to do that would jeprodize the whole reason for the cover up - blaming russia, an ongoing task assigned to rejects like michael isikoff and those like him.. if someone were to tell me emptywheel is on the payroll too, it wouldn't surprise me..

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2019 18:55 utc | 7

The next bombshell will be that it was the Russians who killed Seth Rich, because he was going to expose their nefarious scheme!

Posted by: Roy G | Jul 9 2019 18:56 utc | 8

Another conspiracy theory.
A preemptive journalistic strike as the sniffer dogs get closer and closer to debunking Russiagate?
The wolves are circling the Clintons with the latest Epstein arrest (Bill is on the flight logs) and more rumblings around Hillary playing fast and loose. The teflon is wearing thin.
A Hail Mary pass to see if the Clintons can be saved or whether they have become too much of a liability and a kind of justice will be allowed takes its course?

Posted by: CD Waller | Jul 9 2019 19:07 utc | 9

We're going to be bombarded with droppings like this to distract from the shit that will hit the fan when Mueller finds himself on the other side of the table in slightly over a week from now. No matter how you toss it, that will precipitate a meltdown.


Posted by: bjd | Jul 9 2019 19:08 utc | 10

@Alan McLemore #6
VIPS noted that the pattern and speed of file copying is consistent with local access - i.e. USB - as opposed to over the internet.
However, they did not say anything about who did it. Definitely no commentary on Seth Rich.
What VIPS said is that the person or persons who did this copying was very likely someone working in the DNC - i.e. most likely an American.
Could it have been Seth Rich? Yes, but it could have been anyone else in that very large organization.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 19:09 utc | 11

@10 bjd

What will happen next week?

Posted by: Augold | Jul 9 2019 19:18 utc | 12

WhatDoesItMean.com is a fake news site.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Sorcha_Faal
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?101719-The-Truth-about-Sorcha-Faal

Posted by: curious man | Jul 9 2019 19:24 utc | 13

Gosh! What a feeble, desperate attempt to keep the Russiagate narrative alive in some fashion!

Meanwhile, what are the Russians doing? They're having yet another exposition and conference--The Global Manufacturing and Industrialisation Summit of 2019 in Yekaterinburg which saw Putin giving yet another speech and taking to the press afterwards. Putin begins:

"I would like to use this rostrum, and thank you for the invitation and to describe once again Russia’s approaches to resolving common fundamental, without any exaggeration, civilizational problems.

"I would like to speak about our vision of long-term trends that determine global development and the risks that we are already facing or may face very soon."

Then he concludes:

"We have to find comprehensive responses to the problems we are facing. This includes a guarantee for sustainable development. I believe that in this era of tectonic changes and, sadly, of increasing uncertainty, absolute values – that is, creating better living conditions and opportunities for unlashing human potential – must be a priority."

The ground he covers between is impressive, challenging and politically courageous--very much the polar-opposite of Trump yesterday. At the presser, Putin gave a history lesson as the topic focused on Georgia. Putin then went to the Ural University to meet with under- and post-graduate students.

Do please find the time to read his speech. It's an excellent antidote for Isikoff's lunacy.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 9 2019 19:26 utc | 14

As it stands, the possibility that Seth Rich was, in fact, assassinated, is far more likely than any other possibility (such as the silly "botched robbery" excuse). The reason so many believe he was offed is because any other possible theory just falls on its face.

I have done a fairly thorough comparison of several suspicious deaths in the DC area over a period of a decade or so. What's striking when you do the statistical comparison is not that Seth Rich was killed but the aftermath. No other high profile murder came even close to the level of obscuration and the incredible back-push against anyone and anything who would even suggest looking at the death of Rich more closely.

It is, in fact, the ABSENCE of a credible investigation, which persists to this day, that makes the Seth Rich case so unique among other murder cases. By all accounts, most of the effort we have seen on the part of police, or journalists, or any other agency, went into NOT covering and NOT investigating. that goes for the strange behavior of his family as well. Most cases we have seen of a young person killed in the prime of life, especially someone educated and politically involved, had their family turning up heaven and hell keeping their name in the news and seeking justice. Not in this case. Seeing how the Rich parents seem like a well-meaning nice couple, who must have cared about their son aplenty, the only possible conclusion is that they were pressured into silence.

Tomorrow is the anniversary of Seth Rich's untimely violent death. That must be the reason for that pathetic isikoff article. We, online denizens, must not allow this death to go uncommemorated and unmentioned.

One of these days, I'll publish my statistical comparison article. But the time is not yet.

PS for those who wonder - my theory about why it is necessary for the PTB to pull out all the stops and come down all hot and heavy on anyone who as much as tried to investigate this case, is that it was the cover-up that was botched. IOW, unlike the Michael Hastings case, where they had their talking points and counterpoints all ready, and where any post-accident evidence was ever so conveniently stashed away from reach - well-hidden from prying eyes, the Seth Rich cover-up was full of holes. It's like they didn't get their act together on how to really push this under the carpet. From that sad little bicycle rack to Donna Brazil's curious dedication, the cover-up could not stand up to scrutiny, with so many loose ends. This theory posits that perhaps the responsible parties did not feel it was necessary to go real deep or far in covering their tracks, because everyone assumed Hillary was going to win, in which case, the whole thing could have been safely buried in the public's memory holes. but when Trump won instead, all of a sudden the holes became all too glaringly obvious - practically to anyone who cares to look.

Posted by: Merlin2 | Jul 9 2019 19:36 utc | 15

Muellergate gets dissed by judge:

"Federal judge has issued a significant rebuke of a core Mueller claim. Mueller claims that the IRA -- a Russian troll farm -- was the 2nd of "two principal interference operations" by Russian gov't. But as judge notes, Mueller's implied link between IRA & Russian gov't was false."

Isikoff must live in a compost pile given the sort of writing he does.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 9 2019 19:59 utc | 16

Interesting article --though ending on a rather 'conspiratory' note-- by Andrew McCarthy: Russian Oligarch Scoffed at FBI’s Collusion Theory.

Posted by: bjd | Jul 9 2019 20:03 utc | 17

I really doubt Wikileaks would have offered a reward for an arrest in Rich's assassination if he weren't the source.

Posted by: c | Jul 9 2019 20:04 utc | 18

Karlof1 @14

Totally agree. I read almost every Putin speech or presser available. It is just so refreshing to hear a world leader speak so intelligently on such a vast array of topics. Won't even mention the dribble that spouts from the mouths of the leaders of The Empire and its vassals. If it wasn't for the Russian people and Putin and his outstanding staff, I would be really depressed. I'm really impressed that whether it is security, politics or economics, they are always looking for a Win-Win solution. Wanting what is best for Russia, but not at the expense of everyone else.

"if you feel threatened then I am not safe". I believe this is Putin's view of the world.

Posted by: lgfocus | Jul 9 2019 20:07 utc | 19

I am sure you heard about plausible deniability b. It is all private. And it is all commercial, facebook, NSA, IRA whatever.
The modern Russian system is a US clone with some Russian spice in it.They play on the same field.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 9 2019 20:07 utc | 20

Quick, maybe stupid, question. It's often said especially here at MoA that the "Internet Research Agency" is merely a private company. What is the exact English translation of that organization's name? I am trying to understand why a non-governmental private organization would include the word "agency" in its name? Clearly Western advertising agencies use the word all the time, but I guess the impression many of us get - or are given, perhaps intentionally - is that the IRA is some form of Russian state agency.

Posted by: KC | Jul 9 2019 20:38 utc | 21

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 9 2019 20:12 utc | 22

Old news his partner in crime is Ghilsane Maxwell daughter of Robert Maxwell. Les Wexner another zionist billionaire financed the operation.

Posted by: O | Jul 9 2019 20:39 utc | 22

Anyone who believes that Sorcha Faal is real should have their head examined! None of the "secret SVR memos" Sorcha Faal claims to have access to ever existed, except in the writer's imagination. But the other sources Sorcha Faal uses are good. The details are correct, but the central claim is usually bogus.

The piece by Sorcha Faal was the first to suggest that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC leaks. Pure speculation at first, but others have since then made the same claim based on real evidence. The fact that Sorcha Faal happened to make the obvious inference does not make it and more or any less true.

I have compiled a list of people who say Seth Rich is the DNC leaker

- Kim Dotcom
- Seymour Hersh (unconfirmed)
- Rod Wheeler (retracted)
- Ed Butowsky
- Bill Binney
- Mark Dougan
- Guccifer 2.0 (via Robin Young)
- Anonymous federal investigator who spoke to Fox News & OANN

Julian Assange strongly suggests but does not say so. As does his mother.

Two other people claim that they know first hand that the data came from a leaker but no not mention the leaker's name.
- Craig Murray
- Ray McGovern

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jul 9 2019 20:41 utc | 23

@Merlin2 #15 -

Do you have any links or evidence from your personal investigation into the other deaths in the D.C. area and how they were handled differently than Seth Rich? I am genuinely curious - saying something like that is very significant and I would sincerely hope that you saved your work so that it can be examined.

Posted by: KC | Jul 9 2019 20:41 utc | 24

#16; Is that not Google, Apple, Faceboot & Amazon?

Posted by: Shyaku | Jul 9 2019 20:50 utc | 25

> Since the emails were downloaaded and not hacked

Those are not mutually exclusive.
Actually, technical merits (made public) are rather wacky themselves. They hint at but they do not prove.
he fact, that those arguments were not challenged at face value and instead are being silenced, "down the memory hole", is itself very interesting.
Like the Team Russiangate is fearing that there is _much_ more evidence for "insider's copying" conspiracy that made public yet, and that all those file timestamps were just a bait....

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 9 2019 20:51 utc | 26

Thank you b for continuing to highlight the manic insistence of prominent 'journalists' in this country, the US, on diverting attention from real problems the world currently faces in order to obfuscate and delude us into thinking we can unravel unicorn tales and horror stories. When, as karlof1 points out, in a few clean strokes Putin cuts to the chase as he first gives a short but packed speech on the perils and possibilities of technology; and then deflects mindless press questions having nothing to do with the subject by giving a short cogent history lesson about Georgia.

All I can say is wow. I cannot imagine (though it did happen in the past) such speeches and such parries taking place in the US.

Which is mindlessly sad.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9 2019 21:02 utc | 27

The subject which Putin might have expected to tackle with the press can be seen in the following excerpt:

"...According to forecasts, billions of communication devices and the rapidly growing infrastructure for storing, processing and transferring big data will consume over 30 percent of the world’s electricity by the middle of the next decade. How can we achieve this huge amount of generating capacity? There is no clear-cut answer to this question..."

And then he gets a question about a journalist's derogatory comments in Georgia.

Personally, I would not consider it a hardship not to have my data so constantly being stored, processed and transferred. That's the kind of consumption I could happily do without. Are you listening, you consumers of the world's generating capacity? Just stop listening!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9 2019 21:12 utc | 28

> It's often said especially here at MoA that the "Internet Research Agency" is merely a private company. What is the exact English translation of that organization's name?

Good question. There is one more - "IRA" is not the most "safe" abbreviation for English-language nations. Such a naming can be intentional "trolling"-like brand promotion, of course.

In Russian there is a standard idom "news agency", "ХХХХ агентство новостей". Also, of course, some office providing agents (as in representatives and consultants) would be agency too. Advertising agency - "рекламное агентство", perhaps. But "research agency" sounds strange.

Also, this very agency was allegedly working in the Internet for the Internet. But... it has no Internet representation, no any web-site. Even nominal, "come to this address or call this phone number", nothing.

One may allege this is a "gray zone" company, like founded of ex-spies, and it uses non-public means to find customers. For example BlackWaters/Xe/Academi does not need havey spamming in Facebook to get to their prospective customers, right? However, such a company would also use a cloaking nothing-meaning moniker for their name. But if you put "Internet" on your tag, if you want to publicly promote yourself as the got-to company for anyone who wants to research something about internet - then you would equally care to promote yourself by other means than title alone. It definitely does not match, the name and behavior.

There is a claim, that the company only existed from summer 2013 to December 2016.
http://rucompromat.com/organizations/agentstvo_internet-issledovaniy
But can one trust this claim? dunno...

Everything we know about this company just does not add-up...
Allegedly the company made their living by pushing commercials into social networks - but how did they reached to customers, whos services they advertised for money?
Or was they abusing advertising companies like Google and Yandex by making bogus pages and luring people into it, then collecting AdSense/AdWords revenues? Then why name oneself "IRA", again? I think such a "business" would create and drop "shell companies" as often as they can to evade Google/Yandex censoring them out.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 9 2019 21:15 utc | 29

More distraction crap, to keep the real issues, like health care for all, forever wars, and the backward march of democracies, from being debated.

Meanwhile, the global oligarchs keep consolidating their influence.

Posted by: ben | Jul 9 2019 21:20 utc | 30

Personally, I would not consider it a hardship not to have my data so constantly being stored, processed and transferred. That's the kind of consumption I could happily do without. Are you listening, you consumers of the world's generating capacity? Just stop listening!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9 2019 21:12 utc | 32

in other words, you are advocating against BitCoin and other blockchains?

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 9 2019 21:27 utc | 31

#6

Maybe Wikileaks copied the flies or just moved them from one folder to another. I think it then would show then the same pattern. To me this does not seem to prove anything.

Posted by: d | Jul 9 2019 21:27 utc | 32

...or just changed the timestamps, rounded them to even numbers, for creating this very appearance.

This is all so obvious, that what really is thundering there - is the total silence. None of Team Russiagate seems to ever invoke those **obvious** counter-arguments.
It is like they fear this discussion gets started, gets "legitimized" by their participation, and then some different, real evidence would get surfaced.

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 9 2019 21:30 utc | 33

I said 'my data', Arioch. I know nothing about blockchains. If they contain my data, yes, give it back.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 9 2019 21:34 utc | 34

@14 karlof1... thanks for those links on putins comments in both instances... yes - everyone check them out for a real antidote to the jackass being highlighted by b - Michael Isikoff

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2019 21:41 utc | 35

From Aaron Mate's Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1148581532598198273

“Federal judge has issued a significant rebuke of a core Mueller claim. Mueller claims that the IRA -- a Russian troll farm -- was the 2nd of "two principal interference operations" by Russian gov't. But as judge notes, Mueller's implied link between IRA & Russian gov't was false:”

Link contains a scanned copy of the judge's statement.

Posted by: KC | Jul 9 2019 21:42 utc | 36

@Merlin2 #15
Washington DC isn't a safe place. It has a population smaller than San Francisco, but 3 times the number of homicides: 135 in 2018 vs. 46 in SF.
To put in perspective: New York City had 289 homicide in 2018 but has 12x the population...
So while the Seth Rich death is unusual, it isn't absolutely clear to me that it is extremely unusual. The number of government or political group employees in DC is large, the homicide rate is exceptional - and it used to be a lot worse. I think DC had 3 or 4 times more homicides in the 1990s than today; gentrification and the rise of the government affluent demographic has certainly factored in the decline.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 21:43 utc | 37

b was right, of course.

@Arioch: https://www.thenation.com/article/hyping-the-mueller-indictment/


Worth a read if not already covered by b or another comment.

Posted by: KC | Jul 9 2019 21:45 utc | 38

@Arioch #33
I think you don't understand the IRA business model.
The "troll" business model doesn't require customers - it isn't an advertising agency.
This business model is all about scale: if you can draw traffic to one or more web sites, the advertising income is automatic. Since you don't actually need customers paying you, why do you need a web site or any form of public presence?
Perhaps you might recall the Macedonian "fake news" incident? Prior to the IRA and "russia", there was an outcry over fake news which turned out to have been promulgated by Macedonian teenagers.
It is all about exploiting the disfunctional internet advertising economy. Free and/or cheaply paid ads pushing people's buttons --> people clicking on links --> people going to web sites to scream at each other = money from page views.
This type of activity is certainly gray - it isn't outright fraud but equally isn't somebody putting up a web site to express themselves. Unfortunately, the advertising robots and networks don't even try to distinguish between the two: raw numbers and incoming viewer profiles is all that matters.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 21:49 utc | 39

Igfocus @20 & juiliania @31--

Thanks for replying! The content of Putin's speech would make an excellent thread topic! What O provides @24 is important as it provides further clues to the actual target of Russiagate which IMO is Putin--he cannot be acclaimed to be the #1 Global Statesman that he clearly is as that would further push the Outlaw US Empire into the deep shadowy hole of its own making that began with its attack on itself. Only a few vassal states and politicos like Michelle Bachelet continue to attempt to advance its increasingly feeble acts to maintain its waning hegemony. The jealousy of those comprising the Current Oligarchy is made palpable through the pens of Isikoff and his ilk in their increasingly desperate attempts to tarnish all things Russian blinded as they are by their hubris and false construction of reality.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 9 2019 21:57 utc | 40

@44 karlof1.... i have noticed this a number of times, so i have to ask... do you ever notice when i reply to your posts? it seems like you never do! thanks again for your posts..

Posted by: james | Jul 9 2019 22:00 utc | 41

The truly heartbreaking part in all of this, is the fact that the owner class successfully keeps their populations under control by melting their brains in an attempt to figure out 'what happened' here, or what happened there.

There have been voices all along talking about how to solve the problem of truth finding in regards to all the filthy deeds in the district of criminals:

The people must take over the NSA like the folks in the former GDR took over the STASI building - to find all their files and smelling probes stored in the dungeons. The NSA has every phone call in their system since before 9/11. Absolutely with no doubt after 9/11. So, every crime that was perpetrated after 9/11 is documented in their system. This system must be cracked open. The NSA needs to be dissolved and all data made available to the public.

Because it is pathetic to the highest order to witness this left versus right ham theater that only serves to distract those who can be distracted from asking for the truth at the correct places. It has always been my personal conviction, that in a real Democracy, something like NSA, CIA and USAID et al, can not exist. It requires a wall of secrecy to shield the crimes perpetrated by these people from the public eye.

And I am no fan of Putin, although admire the way how he handles himself and the needs of the Nation he was asked to lead.

In the Western hemisphere, it's all the owner class versus suckers. Without opening up the owner classes information gathering machine NSA, the truth will be kept away from the people.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Jul 9 2019 22:00 utc | 42

nottheonly1

Putin "MADE Russia great again", without destroying anyone else, friends and foes alike.

Posted by: lgfocus | Jul 9 2019 22:10 utc | 43

If we accept the premise that the 'original' Russiagate was devised to get out in front of the Clinton/DNC rigging of the primaries, then one might wonder precisely what is being gotten in front of in this instance - at some point, Seth Rich may be revealed as the source of the Wikileaks e-mails and perhaps this is an attempt to get out in front of that possible disclosure...? The story may, once again, become that of Russian exploitation.

Posted by: Blackberet | Jul 9 2019 22:12 utc | 44

When Craig Murray went to D.C. and claims to have met the leaker, Seth Rich was already dead.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 9 2019 22:26 utc | 45

To james @50

It's his job. Cut him some slack.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 9 2019 22:51 utc | 46

Putin doesn't do "stupid stuff", any "stupid stuff", remember Obama's rants about "stupid stuff"?

And that is all you really need to explain Putin's success, esp. in the environment in which he has been operating. When you have an opponent who is ideologically committed to winning by doing "stupid stuff", it's easy.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 9 2019 22:54 utc | 47

@ wg..lol.. pass that on to karlof1 who seems to read his content very differently..


Posted by: james | Jul 9 2019 22:55 utc | 48

@Arioch (35). The verification by blockchain method of every single cryptocurrency transaction consumes huge quantities of electricity. Anyone can look it up, but the numbers are astonishingly high.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 9 2019 22:59 utc | 49

I should have said the verification of a single transaction....

Posted by: Rob | Jul 9 2019 23:02 utc | 50

@ james who wrote
"
@ o... are you going to talk about this 24/7 on every thread??
"
I have noticed a pattern of commenting by some of the newer barflies that seems to be an attempt to influence the MoA comment narrative in a manner that says that China and Russia leadership are as corrupt as that of empire.

Its b's web site and I expect he is aware of the commenting trends. I am struggling with medical marijuana detox after 13 years of heavy use and have already fallen prey to their efforts but now see the pattern and force myself to determine who the commenter is before reading. I suggest you might want to do the same to minimize the noise to signal ratio here.

That said, I encourage all to call out the more appalling lies, obfuscation and misdirection provided by those that want us to believe there are no moral and principled leaders of humanity in our world today.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 9 2019 23:05 utc | 51

O

Bernie Ecclestone of F1 fame wishes that Putin would govern Europe.

Even said he would stand between a machine gun and Putin, offering his live.

Quite remarkable that so many people admire Putin and his win win ways.

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 9 2019 23:05 utc | 52

Question: So does this mean that the "somber svr intelligence report" really was a real thing and was really disseminated amongst people in the kremlin?

Whoa.

Posted by: augold | Jul 9 2019 23:18 utc | 53

@ O who wrote
"
The groupthink is strong on this comment board.
"
LOL!!! Yes, in spite of commenter Pft's writing about such groupthink on the Open Thread

Have you not considered that a groupthink about speaking truth to power might draw some support that trolls cannot penetrate?

Have a nice life and the days will take care of themselves

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 9 2019 23:28 utc | 54

O @59
I'm not indifferent to your views. I'm quite concerned about the Christian Zionist in the USA, the whole Zionist project and extreme danger of the Chabad movement. I think these are serious problems that need our attention. I'm also very wary of any leaders.

Having said that, I also don't believe ALL the negative things I hear about people and I don't judge them by who they are associated with. Especially Putin who believes in talking to and dealing with EVERYONE. If I believed the USA/UK BS, I would never talk to or listen to anyone that was Russian, knows a Russian or has ever spoken to a Russian.

What I do believe is that having read/listened to most of what Putin has said since his Munich speech in 2007, and watched what Russia actually does, it appears to me that Putin says what he means and does what he says. That doesn't make him or Russia flawless. But it does make him and the country that supports him as the most effective leader moving in the direction that I would like to see the world go.

Posted by: lgfocus | Jul 9 2019 23:28 utc | 55

Lol. So we are following into the trap of calling theories we don't believe in “conspiracy theories” so as to discredit them and avoid debating the merits of such theory. Oh my.

First of all, conspiracies occur daily, just ask any law enforcement official or a director on any company board.. Almost every post here refers to a conspiracy of one form or another.
A theory is simply an explanation supporting the facts. They are not proven and can only be disproved by pointing out one or more facts used by the theory are false.

What exactly are those facts that disprove the Seth Rich theory. I am not actually well read on the subject and would like to know.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 9 2019 23:29 utc | 56

@ Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 21:43 utc | 41

> I think DC had 3 or 4 times more homicides in the 1990s than today; gentrification and the rise of the government affluent demographic has
> certainly factored in the decline.

Actually, this appears to be a much broader, secular megatrend; just about every city in North America has seen a similarly precipitous drop in violent crime (not that it has slowed down the militarization of the police).

Posted by: AshenLight | Jul 9 2019 23:30 utc | 57

Alan McLemore @ 6:

Sorry to say this but there is nothing in that VIPS memorandum published at the Consortium News website that demonstrates a chain of evidence leading to Seth Rich. All that the memorandum does is show that Wikileaks' acquisition of the DNC emails came via a download onto a USB or similar device, and not through hacking. Anyone else working for or with the DNC could have downloaded the material.

The former UK diplomat Craig Murray is on record as having said that he received a device contained leaked DNC emails from an unidentified person to pass on to Wikileaks while he was in Washington in September 2016. Seth Rich died in July 2016.

At this point in time, there is still no hard evidence that Seth Rich was involved in leaking DNC emails to Wikileaks during the 2016 Presidential campaign period. He may have been involved or may have been one of several people involved but all this is still conjecture.

That Seth Rich's family appears to be behaving strangely over his death can be put down to the fact that some investigators who offered to help investigate his death turned out to be working for Fox News and were spreading rumours of a link between Rich and Wikileaks.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 9 2019 23:36 utc | 58

karlov, thanks for the link to the POTRF's speech.

Somewhat tellingly, Fusion GPS ranks higher on my search engines auto-complete than fusion power. :-|

Posted by: Ash (London) | Jul 9 2019 23:36 utc | 59

james @45--

I do occasionally acknowledge your replies; sorry I omitted you in this case. Soon after O appeared, I linked it with Zanon as tag-team trolls, which O didn't appreciate. O disregards my comments as a result, or seems to. BFD.

lysias @51--

Thanks for verifying that extremely important factoid I'd been meaning to do for awhile and forgetting. IMO, Rich's murder is one of all too many that doesn't make sense. IMO, the leaker was someone high up in DNC who had access to at least some of the emails, thus knew of their importance, knew which server they were on, and how to download them without being discovered.

We'll never know what prompted Yeltsin to elevate Putin as he's dead. Maybe he had an epiphany during one of his few sober moments and realized what he'd done to his homeland and its people, the millions he'd killed and immiserated. The Outlaw US Empire only needed a few more years of raping Russian to do what the Nazi German's couldn't. But Putin and a few others stayed their rapine and began their counterattack. Twenty years later, there remains much to be done, and his concern for the future is quite genuine. Over the past five years Putin's views have changed the most in response to the escalating Climate Crisis, and that's very much evident in today's speech. But he knows he must have many allies in what he now sees as a civilizational crisis, which is why he closes his speech saying "... great responsibility lies with us for the future of our nation and the world in general – and we definitely must work together."

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 9 2019 23:39 utc | 60

The reason for the general decline in violent street crime is demographics.
There are millions fewer male teenagers in the population then there were a decade or two back.

Posted by: David Goodrich | Jul 9 2019 23:42 utc | 61

@AshenLight #64
Quite true. I personally think at least some part of it is due to the advent of police "scoring" systems, which in turn causes more and more deaths to be classified as suicide, accident or natural causes, with gentrification being another major cause.
However, the change in homicide rates isn't exactly uniform. New York City in its heyday had 2000+ homicides - so the rate there has fallen a lot more than DC. Historically for New York, there was a jump in homicide numbers in the 1970s and a precipitous fall in the mid 1990s. Present NYC numbers are approaching the lows in the 1950s...

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 23:50 utc | 62

The reason for the general decline in violent street crime is demographics.
There are millions fewer male teenagers in the population then there were a decade or two back.

Posted by: David Goodrich | Jul 9 2019 23:42 utc | 68

Could be also that male testosterone levels are dropping worldwide.

Posted by: O | Jul 9 2019 23:51 utc | 63

@Pft #63
The burden of proof rests with those making extraordinary claims, not on those who don't agree.
Furthermore, the Seth Rich story is very much conspiracy theory in that the allegation is that a government/political conspiracy murdered him and covered up the subsequent investigation.
Simply having an attractive story based on circumstantial evidence is entertaining but meaningless without some form of evidence.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 23:53 utc | 64

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 9 2019 23:39 utc | 67
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 9 2019 23:28 utc | 61

Lol!! You guys are definitely high off your own supply..

Posted by: O | Jul 9 2019 23:54 utc | 65

Seth Rich fell into the same trap like Bradley/Chelsea Manning; trusting Wikileaks. These naive youngsters wanted to expose corruption and the Anglo-Zionist empire showed their appreciation.

Posted by: O | Jul 9 2019 23:58 utc | 66

I think Isikoff is a lying sack of excrement and an enemy of the people with all that implies.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Jul 10 2019 0:00 utc | 67

Several have noted that my post at No. 6 does not demonstrate that Seth Rich was the one who transferred the data to Wikileaks. That is correct, and it was not the point I intended by the post, which was to show it unlikely that the data could have been transferred over the internet and thus could not have been a hack as suggested by the Russiagate hoax and Mueller's report.

It was sloppy of me not to point that out, and to not catch that the possible implication could be drawn that my point was not the hack v leak question, but rather Seth Rich's involvement vel non explicitly. My apologies.

Posted by: Alan McLemore | Jul 10 2019 0:04 utc | 68

People also forget that Shawn Lucas died "mysteriously" that year as well.
"The suit claims that the DNC showed demonstrable favoritism towards Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary, and failed to secure the data of DNC donors.

Attorney Elizabeth Beck described the lawsuit to US Uncut:“We think that the DNC has been running absolutely out of control and completely disregarding their responsibilities, rights, and duties to the public.”

Jared Beck told Disobedient Media that Lucas would have served as a federal witness to rebut the defendant's contention that process was incorrectly served.

This would have included a sworn declaration from Lucas. Beck has stated that the video footage of Lucas serving process had been introduced as evidence in the case in his stead, due to his unexpected death.

Jared Beck stated that Seth Rich would have been a potential witness as well."

The Becks where huge Sanders supporters as was Seth Rich.

Posted by: Orlando | Jul 10 2019 0:08 utc | 69

The burden of proof rests with those making extraordinary claims, not on those who don't agree.

That burden obviously does not apply to the mainstream media's Russia conspiracy theory that they plied for the last two years or the many other conspiracy theory's they have plied that have lead to war. Circumstantial evidence is enough to send someone to death row in the US.

Stories like Seth Rich rise because the government is not to be trusted on ANY level. Seth Rich could have taken the blame for the leak and another could have leaked the information that had much to gain from a Trump victory. An intelligence agency of a country that has gained much from Trump comes to mind. Anything is possible, nothing will ever be proven.

He is dead, he will never talk. How convenient. Maybe he did it, maybe he did not. We will never know.

Posted by: dltravers | Jul 10 2019 0:22 utc | 70

"Murray said he retrieved the package from a source during a clandestine meeting in a wooded area near American University, in northwest D.C. He said the individual he met with was not the original person who obtained the information, but an intermediary."

https://thebrokenelbow.com/2016/12/15/craig-murray-doubles-down-on-clinton-hacking-claim/

Posted by: gzon | Jul 10 2019 0:24 utc | 71

Psychohistorian. This is off topic but have you ever read William Cobbett's 'Paper against Gold'?
It was a seminal critique of the banking system and greatly influenced the Jacksonians but it is rarely talked about today. I once wrote to an eminent critic of junk economics asking him for his assessment of it. It was clear to me, from his reply, that he had never read it.
Best wishes to you.

Posted by: bevin | Jul 10 2019 0:26 utc | 72

Alan McLemore, #6 fully explains the evidence indicating the truth of the idea that Seth Rich was the source of the leak. The fact that Isikoff, one of the chief propagandists of the deep state, which is itself a conspiracy against the rule of law, the public, and world stability, would need to debunk the story in this fashion is a further indication of its truth. The way they handled the private investigator (I forget his name) who first indicated its truth then acted in a way to indicate he was got to, is a further indication. They whacked Seth Rich because, otherwise, there was a witness to debunk the phony explanation they developed as a means of eliminating the risk to their continued power that the DNC leaks posed.

Posted by: exiled off mainstree | Jul 10 2019 0:26 utc | 73

karlof1, I can't keep repeating my thankyou's to you for your links so please would you print out a card that says 'juliania thanks you' every time you post one? The reason I used the quotation I did was because it struck me that there is so much unnecessary and invasive data collection going on these days but I never linked it back to unnecessary energy consumption - which it is of course!

I worked for many years in retail and it was only in my last year of doing so that computers became smart enough to process customer information - I wish I could say I quit because of that, but at least I quit (retired) as that was becoming the norm. It wasn't Five Eyes yet, but it was the beginning and I did resent seeing it in my own dear little greenhouse operation. And now I would sincerely like to see a flood or a landslide hit that Big Black Box in Utah. Not that I would orchestrate one, but it would be divine justice.

So when I saw that in Putin's speech it just hit home. For the final time, thank you for linking!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 10 2019 0:29 utc | 74

I meant above '...to look at every time you post one...' You don't have to do it every time, sorry!

Posted by: juliania | Jul 10 2019 0:31 utc | 75

Well, the CBS Evening News just ran a Russian Interference story with Michael Isikoff regarding Seth Rich.

Posted by: Joe | Jul 10 2019 0:42 utc | 76

@ bevin with the OT William Cobbett's 'Paper against Gold' recommendation....thanks

I have read parts online but it is difficult to read that way for me. That said, given your refresh of the book to my mind I have just ordered it through Abebooks which all MoA barflies should know about as a good source.

Best to you in return

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 10 2019 1:00 utc | 77

Michael Isikoff is either deranged or in the tank for the CIA, and quite possibly both.

Posted by: Rob | Jul 10 2019 1:09 utc | 78

Worth a read if not already covered by b or another comment.

Posted by: KC | Jul 9 2019 21:45 utc | 42

I think you don't understand the IRA business model.
The "troll" business model doesn't require customers - it isn't an advertising agency.

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 9 2019 21:49 utc | 43

...and the "worth reading" article claims:

One item in the indictment suggests commercial motives played a considerable, if not dominant, role: Popular fake accounts like “Being Patriotic, Defend the 2nd, and Blacktivist,” were used to share promotional content from “certain US merchants and U.S. social-media sites,” for a fee of “between 25 and 50 U.S. dollars per post.”

Go figure...

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 10 2019 1:23 utc | 79

ot

@psychohistorian - abebooks is owned by amazon.. it's quite difficult to find a book seller not owned by amazon in fact! abebooks was a book dealer who went online from victoria many years ago.. they became quite successful and amazon bought them out at least 5 or more years ago..

on the other hand - thrift books is not owned by amazon, yet.. https://www.thriftbooks.com/

Posted by: james | Jul 10 2019 1:29 utc | 80

Alan McLemore wrote:

…it was not the point I intended by the post, which was to show it unlikely that the data could have been transferred over the internet and thus could not have been a hack as suggested…

No. Not unlikely. Not anything. Not in any direction. Not in any likelihood either way.

I think the people who responded to you tried to point that out and I'm glad to see people doing that because I thought I was the only one.

Everyone who thinks the forensics is proof of anything about methods or whether something was done this way or that are sadly wrong, this includes Binney if he actually believes that.

Everything on a computer can be manipulated as long as one has physical access at some point.

FAT and zip and data: none of it is anything but binary bits. All of it is easy to change (even inadvertently; like corrupted FAT tables and broken Master Boot Records and so on).

Someone hacking a server is extremely unlikely to do so using a single machine that they have physically in front of them (it would be stupid). Instead they will use compromised machines (plural) and they are also likely to obfuscate and split not only their own "command traffic" but also any heavy workloads such as downloading a lot of files to multiple different machines in the world. However at some point (and most likely after further obfuscation and attempts at hiding) the files will be collected (most likely piecemeal from hundreds or thousands of different intermediary sources) to a single machine in the physical possession of the hacker. Before this machine is perhaps destroyed the files are transferred to a local physical medium which might well be a thumb drive. The finished files may have been copied numerous times between different machines and devices and file systems, there's no way to know. Maybe a physical medium goes to Wikileaks or maybe it is used to rinse and repeat the process in reverse (now as zips or whatever) to upload to Wikipedia. Maybe there wasn't any use of FAT at all (although it sure would be easier to simply use it) and the FAT is nothing but deliberate obfuscation. FAT & FAT32 are after all much more common file systems than many other and can be used in multiple different operating systems (Linux and the BSDs too).

That's just one variant of what anyone trying to be careful could do. The FAT filesystem and also the use of zip etc. doesn't actually prove anything at all.

It proves nothing either way.

If someone wanted it to look like this was what they did without actually doing it then all they need is a Linux computer with the standard shell and the knowledge (although it's achievable on any computer). FAT, zips, virtual machines, hex editors, flipping bits, modifying time stamps, messing with system clocks (if one bothers to do it that way): all of it is available and might have been used on a single machine without difficulty. This too is a possibility.

But the simplest is to just copy it a few times after downloading it.

I hate having to say it but I think it is unethical for Binney not to point any of this out, he at least should be sure to know, he should have spoken up and he didn't. Binney burnt up his credibility on this nonsense.

I have commented on this before here at MoA, the gist of it is the same.

There are tens or even hundreds of thousands of people out there who ought to know that what I'm writing is not only right but obvious, and at least many millions who would agree if they gave it any consideration. It's a trivial fact almost anyone ought to have seen and understood. Binney too.

[*throws off clown mask in disgust* :P ]

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jul 10 2019 1:33 utc | 81

@ james with the update on Abebooks......thanks

I have not been tracking the world like that very close and missed it. Thanks for the alternative source

Powells Books in Portland OR is not owned by Amazon yet either, I believe.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 10 2019 1:59 utc | 82

@Sunny Runny Burger #88
You are correct, someone *could* have spent a considerable amount of effort modifying the data to look like it was copied using a USB.
However, it would be a lot less effort to fake Russian hackers.
So I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.
Furthermore, the data that was analyzed was available for anyone to look at.
Who then might have performed the obfuscation? Wikileaks? The original hacker(s)?
The full repository contained over 150,000 emails - manual modification is highly unlikely in the context of the timeline.
Discrediting Binney requires a lot more than the positing of hypothetical nation-state level obfuscation. You say Binney's analysis of means is insufficient, but a full exposition needs to examine motive and opportunity, no?

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 10 2019 2:35 utc | 83

bjd @ 10: No, nothing at all is going to happen to anyone of
significance, short of a revolution (ha!!).

This is *all theater* for us rubes.

[yawn]

Posted by: Bill7 | Jul 10 2019 2:51 utc | 84

Here we are again discussing an aspect of the Russiagate hoax/cover up, discussions that have used far more bandwidth than the far fewer discussions about what it was meant to cover up. In that respect, the cover up has been a complete success--we know far more about the workings of the hoax than about the DNC's illegalities and the specifics of Hillary Clinton's crimes and those of others mentioned in the emails discovered on her private unsecured server. The parade of Russophobic crap continues mostly unabated while we know little about the details of the DNC's machinations--and those of the state D-Parties, like Nevada's, who committed election crimes of their own--and what's been done to correct them, if anything. In 2016, there was lots of talk about lawsuits and other legal action that ought to occur, but the hoax took all the headlines and we know next to nothing about those legal happenings.

IMO, the above is THE great overlooked point. And for those getting ready to reply that elections don't matter, go and stuff it in your pipe!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 10 2019 2:52 utc | 85

Nyah ha ha ha nyah ha ha

(Rubs hands together fiendishly)
Gruff - hahahahahahaha

James - here's a secret I'll let you in on because you're a cool guy:

We are all on the same team.

The O Team.

Posted by: donkeytale | Jul 10 2019 3:04 utc | 86

The idea that Seth Rich stole de DNC email is a conspiracy theory looks to me like an attempt to discredit any internal leak inquiry. We could learn a lot about that committee and I have the feeling I should take a vomit bag with me, or two.

Posted by: DidierF | Jul 10 2019 3:18 utc | 87

I see what you did here, b. Well crafted!

@all What about IMRAN AWAN (pictured with Seth Rich shortly before the assassination)?

Posted by: PeacefulProsperity | Jul 10 2019 3:40 utc | 88

CBS Evening News indeed had this as its top story - I was resetting some things on my TV and accidentally landed on an antenna channel, I don't think I've watched co-called network news in years - but the way the story was presented was as if we'd just had some major breaking event. Isikoff appeared, and the audio clips floating around I think are from this official public appearance. Why on earth would they do this before the anniversary of Rich's death if not for some larger distraction? It is absolutely bizarre.

As for the "O" team, really, Donkeytale? Want to pull everyone down into your mired well? No thanks. Or maybe I've missed the joke.


Posted by: sejomoje | Jul 10 2019 3:44 utc | 89

b:
Thank you for the link to the Isenkoff(sp?) article. What a beautifully and professionally crafted piece of propaganda. It makes me wonder how much (if any) wordsmithing was allowed after it was produced.
After reading 100 comments, I noticed that all the barflyies missed a very important bit of rewriting history with respect to the e-mailed comment by the Peter Strzk(sp?) where he admitted that "there was no there, there." This was the Head of the FBI counterterrorism unit referring to their not having any basis for their Trump Investigation. Notice how Isenkoff's article now has changed (misdirected) that comment to the Seth Rich "conspiracy".
Very well written!

Posted by: naiverealist | Jul 10 2019 4:36 utc | 90

88 nice try, but your dissembling is far from persuasive. It’s not the file format, but the data transfer speed that indicates it was a local file transfer. The file format is just another corellating point. Nice try, but sorry, you are only discrediting yourself vs. Bill Binney.

Regarding O and his fellow cutouts, the tell is, anybody who uses the term ‘limited hangout’ is a troll, period.

Posted by: Roy G | Jul 10 2019 4:40 utc | 91

sejomoje @96: Want to pull everyone down into your mired well?

Yeah, he was joking about his "missile" the other day.

What an ass./sarc

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:12 utc | 92

Merlin2 @15:

It is, in fact, the ABSENCE of a credible investigation, which persists to this day, that makes the Seth Rich case so unique among other murder cases. By all accounts, most of the effort we have seen on the part of police, or journalists, or any other agency, went into NOT covering and NOT investigating. that goes for the strange behavior of his family as well. Most cases we have seen of a young person killed in the prime of life, especially someone educated and politically involved, had their family turning up heaven and hell keeping their name in the news and seeking justice. Not in this case. Seeing how the Rich parents seem like a well-meaning nice couple, who must have cared about their son aplenty, the only possible conclusion is that they were pressured into silence.

Mostly an excellent comment. But that's not "the only possible conclusion". There's the possibility that Rich and his "family" are themselves CIA/Mossad.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:13 utc | 93

c @19:

I really doubt Wikileaks would have offered a reward for an arrest in Rich's assassination if he weren't the source.

IMO you're conclusion goes too far. All that was required was that Assange/Wikileaks BELIEVED that Seth Rich was the source.

On August 9, 2016 Assange spoke as though he believed that Seth Rich was the source but he also said that Wikileaks was "investigating". Seems likely that that 'investigation' may have led to Craig Murray's meeting with someone who claimed a connection to the leaker in September 2016.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:15 utc | 94

Blackberet @48:

If we accept the premise that the 'original' Russiagate was devised to get out in front of the Clinton/DNC rigging of the primaries...

Not sure what you mean by 'original'. Clinton/DNC rigging was reported on back in March 2016. But I don't think it was PROVEN until Wikileaks published the DNC emails.

Are you saying that Trump's hiring of Manafort (April?) and/or the meeting in Trump Tower (June?) were an attempt to counter any attempt to use the DNC collusion against Hillary?

But if Hillary, and or her campaign, was so sensitive about the DNC-Hillary collusion why did Hillary bring Debra Wasserman-Shultz into her campaign?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:16 utc | 95

lysias @51:

When Craig Murray went to D.C. and claims to have met the leaker, Seth Rich was already dead.

Jen @65 provides more info on this: Craig met with an "unidentified person" who knew the leaker.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:17 utc | 96

Jen @65:

The former UK diplomat Craig Murray is on record as having said that he received a device contained leaked DNC emails from an unidentified person to pass on to Wikileaks while he was in Washington in September 2016. Seth Rich died in July 2016.

It would be really really interesting to know exactly why Assange offered a reward for information about Seth Rich's killing. The best guess is that Assange believed that Seth Rich was his source - but Assanges would likely have had no absolute proof. And Craig Murray's meeting with someone connected with Seth Rich doesn't necessary mean that Seth Rich was the source either. It's still possible that someone (or some Agency) wanted Assange to Murray/Assange to believe that Seth Rich was the source.

Why might that be so? Perhaps it was thought that Wikileaks wouldn't publish the DNC emails if the source was a hacker? If someone wanted to ENSURE that Wikileaks published info that was fed to them (so that Wikileaks could be called an agent of Russia for having done so), then they would/could create a bogus identity of a DNC staffer.

And, if someone wanted to help Hillary to throw the campaign to Trump, then they could/would dupe a third-party like Wikileaks into publishing info that would embarrass her in the heat of the election. (Bonus: blame Wikileaks and Russia for "meddling" in the election.)

======

...some investigators who offered to help investigate his death turned out to be working for Fox News and were spreading rumours of a link between Rich and Wikileaks.

IMO that some media investigators were bad actors DOES NOT EXPLAIN the weirdness that we've see.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:18 utc | 97

dltravers @77:

Stories like Seth Rich rise because the government is not to be trusted on ANY level.... An intelligence agency of a country that has gained much from Trump comes to mind. Anything is possible, nothing will ever be proven.

But why kill Seth Rich after he's already leaked the material? The damage was already done and TPTB have many ways to shut-up whistle-blowers.

Furthermore, why would Hillary need to collude against Sanders? She already had plenty of advantages - like money and Sanders willingness to pull punches:

> Sanders wouldn't attack Hillary on 'character issues'; and

> he told the press that he had no interest in Hillary's email problems ("enough with the emails!").


And, if politically-minded people can see that Sanders is a 'sheepdog' then why would a political staffer care about possible 'collusion' against him? Why wouldn't they assume that it's just part of the sheepdog role?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:22 utc | 98

The attempts to discredit the Seth Rich leaker theory and the attempts to bolster it are both fraught. For example, Mueller's failure to investigate despite being made aware of the likelihood of a "leak" (why no attempt at all, especially given the high interest in this?). And those who see Seth Rich as leaker fail to explain why the family hasn't been more vocal about investigations into the possibility that he was killed because of his being the leaker.

Some commenters may be ignorant of all the facts while others are clearly trying to manipulate. It's up to readers to educate themselves sufficiently to know the difference.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Few have considered the possibility of Seth Rich as a fictitious identity used to convince Wikileaks to quickly publish the DNC emails. This possibility is bolstered with the hindsight of Russiagate as a means of initiating a new McCarthyism - and to discredit Wikileaks as a Russian agent. Trump HAD TO BE ELECTED if plans for a new McCarthyism were to be realized and that implies that Hillary had to throw the election and/or be embarrassed by the DNC email revelations.

This makes it important to understand Russiagate and the Mueller investigation. Many believe that Russiagate was an effort to overthrow Trump (the supposedly democratically-elected President). But isn't it rather strange that the entire establishment AND the security services lined up against a President that has largely done what they wanted: tax cuts, military spending, and nominating establishment-approved people like Pence, Pompeo, Bolton, Haspel, and Brett Kavanaugh? (Note: Caitlin Johnstone has written of how strange is the left's support of the Deep State).

Anyone that looks into Russiagate/Mueller investigation can quickly see that the rabbit hole runs deep. There never seems to be sufficient investigation/explanation of what occurred. See, for example, Interesting Developments in the Russiagate Saga by Larry C Johnson (the comments are recommended also).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 10 2019 5:47 utc | 99

There's a lesser known hybrid theory: Seth Rich was murdered by Russian intelligence only to serve as a false track and cover for their own project of funneling the mails (stolen by more classic hacker means) through Wikileaks. The idea being to fan the flames, spreading information together with disinformation.

The benefits of this theory:
- explains the weird & badly explained idea of "botched robbery", as it wasn't a robbery
- explains overall timing while Seth didn't seem to be involved after all
- in line with many US intelligence assessments of active operations being performed by Russian intel.
- in line with well known aim of many similar Russian operations: increase doubt, distrust & conspiracy. No "goal" or direct influence would be needed or aimed for.

Posted by: John Dowser | Jul 10 2019 6:14 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.