Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 13, 2019

A Plausible Theory Of What Jeffrey Epstein Was Actually Doing

The first Jeffrey Epstein thread has grown a bit long. Here is a follow up.

For an introduction to the Epstein case please read this.

A question that no one could so far answer is how Epstein got as rich as he appears to be. A person who calls himself Quantian has an interesting theory of what Epstein was actually doing.

Here is the short version:

Epstein offered the post puberty teenyboppers he seduced and/or bribed to the rich people he knew. He invited lots of interesting people - artists, scientists, politicians, rich businessman - to his exclusive parties. There were always these young girls around. There was always a free bedroom. There were also cameras in place. When one of the rich guys messed with a girl Epstein would blackmail him.

But instead of taking cash he asked them for investments in his offshore hedge fund. For someone who owns billions it is peanuts to put a few dozen millions into a fund. It is legal. The money isn't gone. It will even bear interests.

Epstein is not known for having done much currency trades or other larger Wall Street transactions. His company is small, he didn't work a lot. It is likely he mostly re-invested the money in a simple index stock fund which follows the S&P 500. Those type of funds brought over the years quite a good profit.

Epstein would have taken the typical hedge fund fee of 2/20 which is 2% of the investment per year plus 20% of the profits. The hedge fund would be completely legal and there would be no tax troubles. The entrapped people would simply have to stay invested to keep Epstein quiet and the video tapes off the broadsheet market. Some billionaires might have invested upfront to gain access to the girls.

For Epstein the scheme would have been a very elegant way to pursue his personal 'hobby' while creating an ever growing income.

Quantian's theory sounds very plausible to me. It conforms with everything that is publicly known about Epstein and about what he was doing. It does not require any additional conspiracy theory about Mossad/Mafia/CIA involvement. But it also doesn't exclude that there is some.

Posted by b on July 13, 2019 at 17:30 UTC | Permalink

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As I think someone else mentioned, it seems very plausible that Epstein played a game like the one described. But I don't think you can play that game on the level he seems to have done without some heavy backing. Alphabet agency? Or something deeper than that?

Posted by: paul | Jul 14 2019 1:25 utc | 101

karlof1 @97: Yes, I just read a story where he (Dershowitz) claims there is sealed evidence that will exonerate him. I dunno if I believe it, but it does explain it. And he does seem to think better of speaking out now.

For the larger question of who is out to get whom, it's clear some people want to use it to get Trump, it's not clear that Trump is afraid. I think we need more evidence for that. Right now it looks to me like more of the Trump Show(tm).

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 1:30 utc | 102

Doesnt pass the sniff test to me.

You don't get rich people to come to your parties without seed money and recommendations from other wealthy people beyond your dealings as a bank employee . You also don't get someone like Maxwells daughter to recruit the young girls without someone behind you. You also find yourself dead or in jail pretty quick blackmailing too many rich and powerful people unless you have serious muscle behind you. My money is the blackmailing was done by intelligence agencies who warned them what happens if anything happens to their pal Jeffrey

But if you want to propose a theory where intelligence agencies that Dershowitz and Acosta believed were involved weren't involved, then go for it. Many people will believe anything if it comes from someone they trust.

Posted by: Pft | Jul 14 2019 1:34 utc | 103

As for Mike Cernovich's outlook on this affair, he retweeted this cartoon implying he agrees with its message: Taking down Epstein somehow gets Bill Clinton. Recall I provided grounds for such angst/motivation by DNC tactics against Trump during election campaign, and Cernovich is clearly a Trumpster. Indeed, IMO Cernovich is the unknown entity in this, his motivation he has yet to provide, although he somewhat hints at it in this post from his blog, which includes a rough timeline of the court proceedings. In reading a few more of Cernovich's blog entries, I still don't get a clear indication of his motivation to join Dershowitz in 2017. Perhaps given his stated disappointment in the charges filed, he wanted to get to the bigger fish that Epstein catered to, which is a good reason....

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 14 2019 1:36 utc | 104

frances @103 & 105: Yes I've seen that theory too, and it works better, but still lots of speculation.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 1:37 utc | 105

The CIA gets the bulk of its financing from trafficking in drugs, weapons, and people (a lot of sex slaves but also weird stuff like live organ donors). All of the large cartels have been destroyed yet the volume of cocaine entering the US has remained the same, so clearly the CIA has largely cornered the market on cocaine trafficking.

Yet for some reason law enforcement has suddenly started busting large shipments. `Til now the CIA has had no difficulty bringing in cocaine by the ton, but something seems to have changed recently. What could that be?

A large scale CIA kompromat operation has been effectively shut down with the arrest of Epstein. Why now?

It could just be that the CIA has lost its mojo and is now fumbling everything. Considering the current crop of delusional cricket-fearing youngsters that have been replacing the crusty oldsters in the CIA, this is entirely possible if not probable.

Or it could be that someone has amassed some power and is retaliating for Russiagate and is hitting the CIA where it hurts the most in order to bring them to heel.

Either way, things are starting to look tough for the empire's kneecappers.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 14 2019 1:51 utc | 106

The Jeffrey Epstein case opens up a huge can of worms that is only just beginning to unravel. It has the potential to set Wall Street against Israel, if anyone thought that was possible. Posted by: Lochearn | Jul 13 2019 22:32 utc

Can we make a small bet that the story will peter out without huge sensations? Preposition A: the story does not have much potential. So nothing much will happen, JE will probably serve some time. Preposition not A: the story hides explosive aspect. Well, such stories have a tendency to be buried (or prosecutors have a tendency to bury them). So either way, we can enjoy some speculations, but earth will not shake.

Concerning "setting Wall Street against Israel", it is more probable to see a civil war in Israel before that will happen. Perhaps I did not catch that this is a joke.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 14 2019 2:17 utc | 107

To me this is the most plausible explanation from Dr. Steve Pieczenik who was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance and James Baker.[2] His expertise includes foreign policy, international crisis management and psychological warfare.[7] He served the presidential administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush in the capacity of deputy assistant secretary.[8]

Posted by: Albert | Jul 14 2019 2:24 utc | 108

I wonder what Epstein would think of all this time and energy spent on his predicament? What might he say to us regarding where to look. IMO, if we can dig up the roots, we can determine what made his tree grow. The clues are likely in all that documentation that was just unsealed but not yet released to the public.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 14 2019 2:50 utc | 109

psychohistorian | Jul 14 2019 1:16 utc | 104

I have written here multiple times about how misleading it is to have a Fortune 500 of the richest people but knowing what we all do about Trusts, how come there isn't ongoing reportage of the Fortune 500 biggest Trust funds in the world and their owners?

May I share my own experiences researching this topic?

It is a rabbit hole, though. One can easily spend hours looking through the thicket. It goes like this:

Using the Nasdaq search engine, look for any huge corporation. As I hate AT&T, I started there.

"Who owns AT&T?"

You will receive the result for this search, made visual via pie chart.

When you look at the result, pick the majority institutional shareholder and repeat the search.

Vanguard Portfolio

When you dive into it, you will find out about the corporate web - every corporation is owned by itself and equally by other corporations as institutional shareholders. I own your shares - you own mine...

Now search for who owns these corporations:

Largest Arms Manufacturing Companies

After weeks of research I realized it is an impenetrable web of filth - real ownership of these corporations is concealed via institutional shareholding corporations.

Humanity will only stand a chance if it outlaws corporations. And we all know how that will turn out. We are all sold to the butcher. The question is if we are lucky enough to stop the slaughter before it gets really going.

The Epstein affair must be seen in the light of this corporate collusion.

Plus, how long does it take to convince a rich person to be able to get richer by following my scheme? It is not really illegal - legislators have deregulated more than John and Jane Doe could ever grasp.

Let's get a map where all the corporations are visible, whose owners made 'business' with Epstein. E.g. What shares were Epstein's 'investors' holding?

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Jul 14 2019 3:00 utc | 110

@ nottheonly1 who tried to plumb the depths of corporate ownership

Years ago when I was a supporter and regular at "Almost" NakedCapitalism and had the same discussion some commenter came up with a link to a study showing tons of interlocking corporate directorships/ownerships and as I recall it came down to 150 top entities to some thousands below.....go ask Naked Capitalism for it if so inclined...I am not.

That visibility thing, IMO, is why BREXIT is happening. The City of London Corporation could not allow such transparency that the EU was demanding to occur and so they manufactured a "kick the can" strategy.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 14 2019 3:37 utc | 111

Epstein's Mossad connection is becoming more clear - it's an 'open secret' that blackmailing 'influential' individuals is a simple modus operandi used by the 'government' of 'israel', for decades, in order to push its agenda and control those who 'support' it. It's also an 'open secret' that israel and a number of its 'citizens' are the most active of all states in the 'white slave trade' - as well as the black market for human organs.

Of course, this won't be noted in the west's controlled media - but it's discussed quite frequently in the alternative media around the world. Americans are ignorant of these facts, so it's not really surprising that the epstein operation appears shocking to the average person. It's actually par for the course in the u.s. since the late 50s-early 60s - epstein is only one of many involved with this type of 'nwo' operation of control.

Posted by: opposition_X | Jul 14 2019 4:00 utc | 112

Posted by: pierrep | Jul 13 2019 18:41 utc | 12
"Please don't forget that many of the so called blackmailed subjects certainly had access to INSIDE INFORMATION that they could have shared and thus much higher profits....."

Agreed, safe insider 'win-win' trading (until it blows up).

The 'b' scenario is indeed very plausible, but it does not need to necessarily rely on blackmail. These rapacious predatory fiat money 'elites' are quite capable of scoring a bit of fluff anytime they want it. Just ask the doorman and slip a $100 note etc. What they could equally have desired was an 'in' on a little exclusive Jewish-run "Hellfire" club which, along with mutual investment opportunities (as the ticket in), simply made Jeffrey Epstein a convenient host and 'Pimp/Madam' for quality kiddy fluff. For these types it is more about psychic power and moral corruption than sex per se.

Doing all this via the likes of Epstein is simply a form of financial and moral'off shoring.'

Lastly, why now? Another mass distraction campaign no doubt. And as odious as the Epstein (and Clinton) types are I don't necessarily automatically buy into the 'evil' mass hysteria meme. Sure, if 16 is the age of consent then younger than that is a legal matter. But in other aspects, on a case-by-case basis, there are well mature 14-15 year olds biologically ready for sexual experiences. At first glance I thought the 'pedo' label was referring to 7-10 year olds like the Catholic priest variety etc. Not so, it seems. Or have I missed something? And was it only young females? Are none of these billionaire class homosexual? Or was Epstein homophobic and only interested in a privileged hetro niche market?

Posted by: imo | Jul 14 2019 4:01 utc | 113

An excellent article here that mentions Quantian ...

Given this puzzling set of data points

More fuel for the fire, more pieces of the puzzle.

Posted by: dltravers | Jul 14 2019 4:14 utc | 114

Here is another thought. This case may authentically be resurfacing because of the work of Julie K Brown at the Miami Herald and said pubs court victory to unseal court documents related to Virginia Guiffre's suit of Epstein.

This was not sought after by the powers that be and the establishment is on the defensive so they're trying to redirect this into a case about Trump, notably while ignoring a lot of facts. Maybe that's why this case has been assigned to SDNY which is full of democrats and even Comey's daughter...maybe. In any case i doubt much will come of it. Epstein's victims might get a little more justice but not much and the higher ups will be protected.....except trump but i doubt they have much on him.

I don't believe the lone blackmailer operation but more information will emerge and we can all reassess. What is valuable is that this case will further erode the credibility of the political, moneyed and media classes (often one if the same).

Posted by: alaric | Jul 14 2019 4:25 utc | 115

The problem with this theory is that it posits an improbably large and ongoing pay off. Mutual self interest is much stronger in the long run. Do you really believe that Les Wexner and his security team are going to allow some nobody like Epstein to blackmail them?

To me, it starts with Wexner, and goes through the Mega Group. They were/are powerful deep interests out to help themselves and their pet cause Israel. Powerful non-state actors who could benefit Israel while still maintaining an arm’s length relationship. Perhaps Bush wasn’t the only state leader surprised on 9/11. It would seem a safe bet that Larry Silverstein moves in the same socioeconomic circles as the Mega Group.

Posted by: Roy G | Jul 14 2019 4:57 utc | 116

'Explosive': Was Epstein an 'intelligence' asset? -

Posted by: RayB | Jul 14 2019 6:42 utc | 117

Lozion @78
You ask, there are so many Jews around, why would any Jew pretend to be a heritage American of Christian extraction to serve the Jews. Actually, as ever, there are fewer than two percent Jews, no matter how it looks to you. Look at Trump. Do you think he would have won the election if he campaigned as a Jew promising to do all he could for Jewish big finance and Israel? He ran as a heritage American promising to save his supposed fellows from their dire straits—unemployment, heroin addiction, suicide, and being overrun by strange immigrants displacing them. The immigration of peoole as different as can be from heritage Americans has been pushed by the Jews as a distinct survival strategy of their interest group, starting with Javits and up to crypto-Jew Pelosi. Look up Kevin MacDonald's research to understand how Jews look at the issue.

Posted by: sarz | Jul 14 2019 7:06 utc | 118

@Albert 113

He lost me when he said that Kushner (!!) put Israel on notice to make a piece deal with Palestine

Posted by: Vato | Jul 14 2019 7:08 utc | 119

I find this suspiciously implausible. After the first blackmail attempt no one would visit him again and he'd be dead. There are proven/known repeats. This fact kills the blackmail facade.
Have commentators touched too close to the truth on the previous thread? Terrible backtrack that was most assuredly planned by someone/people really out of touch with internet discussions.

Posted by: nJH | Jul 14 2019 7:11 utc | 120

Makes no sense. Unless you believe powerful politicians are so implausibly stupid/naive to accept free travel, free exotic hospitality, then, free sex with minors - and not suspect a honey trap. Sounds like something else was going on and this article is a limited hangout.

Posted by: darik | Jul 14 2019 8:20 utc | 121

@127 typo

Peace not piece of course

Posted by: Vato | Jul 14 2019 8:20 utc | 122

Thank you Albert #113, interesting link. Steve Pieczenik has some atoning to do I figure. I will observe that site for a while.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jul 14 2019 8:35 utc | 123

@jackrabbit @7 Commenter 'somebody' has taken the misdirection to new heights with his concern-trolling about child poverty. 'somebody' would probably give Epstein a medal for his humanitarian efforts.

I agree with 'somebody' on this. Pedophiles are looking for prepuberty stuff*, anything that is older is not of interest to them. Epstein was clearly looking for post-puberty girls. Those are still children and a grown up molesting them is clearly a crime.

German law for example clearly distinguishes this by setting some legal borders at 14 year of age.

* I know this well as I was for some time engaged with law enforcement when an online service I worked for had a problem with frequent pedophile posters. The material they posted was vile and all of younger kids. Those who were after teens were a completely different group.

Posted by: b | Jul 14 2019 9:28 utc | 124

mh505 - It does get a bit tiresome to inform b that his use of the term "conspiracy theory" is not only counter-productive but false. A theory is a theory and not a conspiracy, unless proven otherwise.

A theory about the behavior of a quantum is a quantum theory.
A theory about a possible conspiracy is a conspiracy theory.

Posted by: b | Jul 14 2019 9:47 utc | 125

Sorry b you might be impressed, but to me it doesn’t pass the sniff test. Much better post first time round.

Acosta’s comment that as a prosecutor he was told to ease off Epstein because he’s an intelligence agency asset is a smoking hot gun.

You really think he’s going to blackmail a former president Bill Clinton, the Duke of York and second in line to the British throne - Prince Andrew (seperate photos of both with an arm round one of the underage girls have been/ are on line) - for $ & £ to his hedge fund - with no other motive such as intel agency blackmail motive?

Of course those two may have openly paid for services, but that still leaves Acosta’s comment.

Then there’s the rather creepy Egyptian/Babylonian style temple on Epstein’s ‘pedo island’ as locals in the (inaptly named) Virgin Islands, allegedly called his private island (real name Island of Little St James).

That’s now had its golden dome and two golden statues removed:

Posted by: PJB | Jul 14 2019 9:58 utc | 126

@all - deleted some anti-semitic / nonsense / off topic / self promotion comments.

Posted by: b | Jul 14 2019 10:37 utc | 127

Fellow bar flies do look at the videos of the weird creepy temple on Epstein’s island. The temple has to be factored in to any theories.

But saw this and it demands viewing as well. A brief but pithy statement by Dr Steve Pieczenik. Although I disagree with some of his past political views, his knowledge of intelligence agencies has always been of interest.

He’s worth considering as he was a high-ranking CIA Officer for a long time. He’s a psychiatrist with two PhDs - one in psychiatry the other in international relations.

Furthermore he’s Jewish - which is useful to know as you listen to him. He gives his personal faith perspective at the end.

Posted by: PJB | Jul 14 2019 10:39 utc | 128

Posted by: Pft | Jul 14 2019 1:34 utc | 103

You don't get rich people to come to your parties without seed money and recommendations from other wealthy people beyond your dealings as a bank employee.

He is supposed to have got the "seed money" from a pyramid scheme where his partner went to prison but he did not and the money did not turn up. He might even have addressed the people that were cheated by the pyramid scheme offering them to "find" the money. It is possible he got close to Les Wexner doing that. Victims of a pyramid scheme don't know much about finance and if they were prey once they might as well be prey a second time.

He was a specialist for pyramid schemes, he told the girls to bring others (as usual, the pyramid scheme seems to have worked for the first ones), he had Bill Clinton around to make it seem that he was connected to power, and presumably his guests could bring others by invitation. He had Prince Andrew to connect it to royalty.

To people who had made the money, he offered the feeling that they belonged to the elite, mixing charity with bribery.

So his guests would be a mix of people who had money, people in important positions and people with status used as decoration.

When you google Les Wexner's kids - they are all in Harvard.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 10:41 utc | 129

add to 129
Bill Clinton, by the way, was famous for selling access.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 10:44 utc | 130

Epstein's sidekick Ghislaine Maxwell's profession is 'socialite', according to our eminent mainstream media, omitting that she served 13 months of an 18-month prison sentence in 2008 for soliciting minors. But she is now a rehabilitated aqs socialite because she turned up at Chelsea Clinton's wedding in 2010 where none of the guests would have dared rub elbows with a facilitator of a pedophile. Gosh!

Posted by: Quentin | Jul 14 2019 11:00 utc | 131

Posted by: Quentin | Jul 14 2019 11:00 utc | 131

She did not. Epstein did. Any more fake news?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 11:02 utc | 132

- Ah, so Trump, Prince Andrew, Bill Clinton, Alan Dershowitz all were blackmailed. OK, but that would still mean that Trump, Bill Clinton are still "shaking in their boots". It's still is a way of the "Deep State" to embarass Trump, Bill Clinton and many others. And to get rid of Trump, etc. etc.

Alan Dershowitz is claiming that he did get "a massage" but "kept his underwear on".

Posted by: Willy2 | Jul 14 2019 11:28 utc | 133

It sounds plausible, though I need to point out that it begins in the middle i.e. it doesn't explain how Epstein got to be in the position where his "parties" became attractive for "artists, scientists, politicians, rich businessman".

I mean, I could organize debauched parties for every day of the week but the chances that anyone of any importance would be in attendance is.... zero..... no matter how many invitations I send out.

Epstein needed to be bankrolled to the extent that his party invitations became a thing of desirability for the foolish rich. That part needs to be explained, and the best explanation so far is that he was bankrolled precisely for that role i.e. he was groomed from the very beginning to be a pimp/blackmailer of people who had more dollars than sense.

The most likely source of such bankrolling would, imho, be one of the three-lettered-agencies or Mossad.

And, sure, once the scheme is up and running then it finances itself. Sure, I get that. But, again, that involves starting the story in the middle, because that scheme still needs to set up and set running. How THAT was arranged is the interesting question.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 14 2019 11:38 utc | 134

@Posted by: Albert | Jul 14 2019 2:24 utc | 108

To me this is the most plausible explanation from Dr. Steve Pieczenik who was Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance and James Baker.[2] His expertise includes foreign policy, international crisis management and psychological warfare.[7] He served the presidential administrations of Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush in the capacity of deputy assistant secretary.[8]

Just not a clean chart of presentation, I would say...Do you pretend he has credibility out of that curricula?
This Dr. Steve Pieczenik also made a lot of videos around the 2016 campaign ( conveniently published 24/7 by the group of operatives at Saker´s cafe ), signalling the Clintons on pedophilia issues/"conspiracy theories". The fact that he is already making videos again comes to reinforce my initial suspicion that this is all a trick to help Trump in the next election. That he is an expert in psycological operations does not add to tranquility...All these people work in the Trump campaign for sure...

The first I saw on this revived case was a thread on Twitter where in 2016 Trump was pointing out that the fact the Bill Clinton had travelled to Epstein island about 26 times will cause him some trouble...Now this...White and in a bottle, milk...Obviously they were keeping this card to be played anytime....He thinks of himself free of charge with the alibi, conveniently broadcasdted now, that he banned him from Mar a Lago after Epstein tried to recruit a girl there...But what about the intense activity in his meoghbor´s home including all these teen girls coming in and out non stop?... He, or his security, never noticed anything?...

Thus, all this comes to spread dirt on Trump´s opponents, but not only, also on Netanyahu´s opponents, since some days ago it was announced the Ehud Barak was back into politics...All this when Netanyahu is in great trouble, incapable of forming government and there was no significant known figure in israeli politics so far who oposses him...and the "Deal of the Century" in tatters...and the US economy as well...after four years of Trump presidency....One would say they, the three, Trump, Kushner, and Uncle Netanyahu, were in the need of a good spread squid ink on all their tenures´failures/corruption...

With this, I am not saying there is no need to fight pedophilia ( all the year/-s around ) or I am claiming anybody´s innocence, but, why this, why now, why in this form?


Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 11:39 utc | 135

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 14 2019 11:38 utc | 135

:-)) That is what the young girls were for.

#metoo has been long overdue. Everything we have always known about certain industries now gets talked about.

Inside the Victoria’s Secret pipeline to Jeffrey Epstein

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 11:45 utc | 136

@Posted by: PJB | Jul 14 2019 10:39 utc | 128

Thus, Trump, the WH, the "new" CIA, Kushner are the new heros of this story...
I guess this video of Pieczenik is directed to illiterate uninformed people who only use social networks...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 11:50 utc | 137

Quantian's theory is probably partially true. Epstein and Ghislane were Mossad plants. The Mossad and CIA are one and the same--'kissing cousins'-'twin sisters'. Their purpose is to make ABSOLUTELY sure that the agenda of the world 'owners' is served. When running a rigged game of corrupt world power, where obedience and narrative control are paramount, the owners of the game cannot trust their continued operation to a simple bribe. Bribes can be discontinued, but extortion and blackmail are forever. Enter Epstein. To set up a young Jewish kid for this kind of future control took futuristic planning--a specialty of the Ashkenazis. A few shekels skimmed from billionaires along the way was assuredly happening, but the true agenda was to make sure the rigged game of power continued unhampered. The big money to fund Epstein came through the inner, hidden Zionist world--probably Wexner.

Why this is happening now is the question. Am beginning to believe that the true purpose is to expose and sacrifice the Clintons, and so damage the Dems as to make their 2020 election plans impossible. Not that Kamala, Pocahontas, Feel the Burn, and the bartender could not be trained, but the discussions of new regulations and controls, and the time delay of training the new puppets would cost immense continuation of world power and untold billions. The locomotive is currently up on the track and running full blast, with the engineer totally compliant--no change would be the much preferred option.

Posted by: Last Day of Grace | Jul 14 2019 12:01 utc | 138

@ Simona 134. Either you have a wonderful sense of irony or you find opinions counter to your ethos disturbing. As you sublimely mention Christ I’ll point out than no Human, let alone sub- Human is sinless. This includes God’s ‘ chosen ‘ people.

Posted by: Beibdnn. | Jul 14 2019 12:06 utc | 139

@Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 11:45 utc | 137

If Victoria´s Secret was/is a pipeline to Jeffrey Epstein, are we to swallow that "Teen Amercia" or "Miss America were not?

This is why I think that the goal of reviving this scandal now is to destroy remaining trust in the citizenry ( which, at this heights, would be already minimal ) in the current political system to be replaced by a security state, as it is whitewashed by Pieczenik in his videos, since it is not possible that this people trying to use this against their political opponents have not thought that this will splash them out as well....

After viewing that Pieczenik video, it gets increasingly clear that what they could be trying is a controled blasting of the US system, in a context of economic stagnation and growing socilaist ideas amongst the milennials, to place the unelected security services in charge, in a clear intend of imitation of the resulting Putinist system ( adding the totalitarian ingredient already present in the US so called "democratic" system ), after the controled blasting of the USSR....
To this goal, Trump is just a tool to achieve that.
Voting anybody else, except the corrupt warmongers Clintons, would truncate their totalitarian plans...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 12:12 utc | 140

Well, it certainly looks like all aspects are getting on the table. The article about

what hedge funders think of Epstein

compares Epstein with Madoff and that was actually also my first thought. Because there are types out there, that are only interested in stellar 'returns'.

You don't have to blackmail greedy people to make more money than is usually possible. Being off-shore with your own little tax-free haven is a prerequisite in itself for those kind of people. Plus - they are told it's all legal anyways.

However. It makes a lot of sense to separate the underage sex-slave market from the financial racket. The underage girls business was for blackmailing politicians and other leaders. At that, he had the backing of the intelligence community - as these are always interested to have something against you in their drawer chest.

This is reminiscent of the old Buddhist story about asking three blind men to describe an Elephant. They all feel different body parts and cannot combine them into an Elephant out of lack of the other information. That's also a business model of certain intelligence services. And yes, everything since Kennedy has been handled this way. The people are blind and they get only small parts of the whole picture - unable to connect these into the elephant in the living room.

And what about - again - forcing the NSA to provide the information they have about all of this? After all, these are the snitches that collect any kind of data about everybody. Or wait, maybe not everybody? Maybe only the data of the little people? The misdeeds of the pricks are erased from their data centers. Makes sense. Data collection of dissenters only. Criminals have nothing to fear from this criminal organization.

1) Epstein is a Madoff for the already filthy rich.
2) Epstein is part of an elaborate system to receive compromising materials - works only as long as this is not presumed.
3) Epstein is a serial rapist of underage girls and in order to escape prosecution has created a law free environment for other like minded underage predators - be they rich, or powerful, or popular.

The story is however not what people should be really worried about. They should be more worried about their immediate future. Watching the lawless justice system deal with it, while they, the people are stripped of anything resembling freedom - for their 'protection'.

Now to the real news - that Russia created the NY blackout...

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Jul 14 2019 12:38 utc | 141

Here's a header recently added to Wexner Foundation website

It appears on every page of the Wexner Foundation Website

Statement from Rabbi Elka Abrahamson

Sexual abuse and trafficking is abhorrent and when it involves minors, all the more so.
It runs contrary to every value we believe in and teach,
especially the fundamental tenet that all human beings are created in God's image.
This is an individual who utterly tossed aside that sacred notion.
We are sickened by Mr. Epstein's behavior.

Wexner Foundation is hugely involved in anything pro Israel.

Take a look at the website.

I think the header does more to incriminate Wexner and his foundation than to help it.
Epstein's 2008 "conviction" went largely unreported in the MSM. So no need to acknowledge at that time.
Note the careful word choices. Minors instead of Children. All created in God's image (except goyim, Palestinians and Refugees). Tossed salad. Yes. They are now sickened by their 30 year relationship with Epstein.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jul 14 2019 12:54 utc | 142

@137 ":-)) That is what the young girls were for."

Yeah, I understand that was the entire rationale for Epstein for holding those parties i.e. to dangle young girls in from of powerful men.

But rich and powerful men don't attend parties when they don't know who the f**k the host is.

Epstein had to reach a level of "respectability" (or notoriety, take your pick) within those circles before rich men would turn up and - whoah! look at those girls! - allow themselves to think with their dicks.

In short: he can't run such a scam until he had joined the inner sanctum, and that's where the real question lies i.e. how did he get into that inner sanctum in the first place?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 14 2019 13:02 utc | 143

@various: "Steve Peacenik"? Right.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 13:03 utc | 144

"From intel" or not, all evidence available to us now points to the direction that Epstein is, in the great scheme of things, small fish.

If that wasn't the case, then the NYT -- that admittedly "consults with the government" before publishing any article -- wouldn't be covering the case in its top front page for three consecutive days (Thursday to Saturday), indluding some 4-6 opinion pieces condemning the guy.

Posted by: vk | Jul 14 2019 13:13 utc | 145

@Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 13:03 utc | 146

@various: "Steve Peacenik"? Right.

I do not get your point.

What do you mean, that we are right ( I can not see anybody except me doing that, btw...)those who do not trust this man one iota? For, what he really does all the time between Trump´s election campaigns? Being he such an insider of so many administrations/secret services, why does he not talk about these issues and many others much more frequently, and not only around Trumps´election campaign? Why does he not unveil, with all the contacts he is suppoosedly to have after such connections to so many relevant administrations, The Donald´s tax record? I think many US people fighting to make ends meet in spite to run all day towards three jobs would be interested if it is to "drain the swamp"...)

Or do you mean are right those pointing out about him as "truthseeker"?

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 13:14 utc | 146

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 12:12 utc | 141

I think it was started by people who wanted their money back in August 2018. Starting with his accomplice of the original Ponzi scheme coming out of prison in 2017.

I don't think you can dodge an avalanche like that by bribes/blackmail. Remember it was a Ponzi scheme. And Epstein looked as if you would find money there.

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 12:12 utc | 141

If Victoria´s Secret was/is a pipeline to Jeffrey Epstein, are we to swallow that "Teen Amercia" or "Miss America were not?

They are a marketing tool for clothes. And sex sells. You have to ask Ivana and Melania how that business works, Ivanka seems to hate it.

But if you look for places where it is easy to exploit women, film, theater and cat walks is where you would go.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 13:16 utc | 147

The Pentagon tells us that they have misplaced $20 trillion in the last decades. The US war machine grinds on, chewing up entire countries, as well as the people within. But that money is accounted for, they say.
What American, living in a crumbling country, would support the endless wars on other peoples? Who would give up decent schooling for their own children, in order to pay for the bombing of schools in Syria, or Yemen? Who would happily drink lead-contaminated water, in order to pay for destroying the water supplies of people in Libya or Yugoslavia?
They have to convince hundreds of millions of people to accept the idea that killing other people is a more important use of our money than making life better for ourselves. How is the propaganda playing in Peoria is a very important thing for our owners to know.
Social media is a good way to monitor the reactions of citizens to the propaganda. Twitter and Facebook have billions of users and those users provide instant reactions to the daily propaganda, allowing our rulers to tweak it as necessary. Google users are similarly tracked, to see what is trending. YouTube allows in-depth analysis into the ways that citizens think.
All of these services are free to the user, but expensive to run.
In the 60s, we know that the CIA provided prostitutes to men, who were used as test subjects to see the effects of LSD on human sexuality. They were filmed and their actions were analyzed.
Jeffrey Epstein provided underaged girls to the wealthy and their actions were filmed. I highly doubt that he charged the men for the girls, or that he blackmailed them.
He is a big donor to scientific research, and that research mostly focuses on mind control.
I think that he is a beneficiary of some of those missing trillions from the Pentagon, and that he is used as a conduit for the kind of mind control experiments that the Pentagon does not want on its public budget.
And I think that the social media companies are also funded by the MIC, to provide enormous focus groups, so that our rulers can keep an eye on our collective thoughts and plans.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 14 2019 13:17 utc | 148

sasha @148: "Dr. Steve Peacenik" with the long CV reeks of internet bullshit and I don't like people yelling at me.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 13:25 utc | 149

it is lazy, anti-semitic and overly simplistic to reduce this to Israel/Mossad/Joos, but when an analysis does merit inclusion of Israel, it's alway incredibly difficult, because the stupid comments always come to poison the well, and b's necessary moderation unfortunately will have the intended chilling effect on others who can't seem to shake instances of our "ally" in the ME doing not very ally-type things, like bombing the USS Liberty.

regarding Epstein and the endless speculation of the threads that disappear into the nefarious web he inhabits, instead of trying to nail down who, how about a little more on what could be part of the justification for an intelligence agency/agencies involvement.

it's too easy to just say power and leverage and humans are corrupt and leave it at that.

in the other thread I mentioned spirituality/religion as a missing component of the analysis here, and obviously the constant threat of being labeled an anti-semite is a big part of that. maybe another part is that it's kind of scary to consider how deeply religious conviction animates those in power to behave how they do.

Whitney Webb at Mint Press has been doing some fascinating work on Christian Zionism I would urge folks here to read her stuff, especially this one on how Israel's Third Temple Movement rebranded Theocracy as "Civil Rights"

I don't know if those rumored to be involved with these networks that run kids along with the drugs and the weapons really believe they are gog and magog, like Bush Jr. seemed to think, but the prospect that there is a religious rationale to committing all manner of atrocities if it means getting closer to creating the conditions for the Messiah, well, that's some truly freaky shit.

Posted by: lizard | Jul 14 2019 13:33 utc | 150

@Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 13:25 utc | 149

You continue to be confussing....I was yelling at you? Where, how?

On Steve Pieczenik, just found this article with a good research on paper´s references, some under paywall other not. Amongst those which are not I find especially calling the fact that he intervened in the Aldo Moro case, and reading about what he said about that case at the time, he seems to follow the "official" line of supporting the narrative of the false flag operation the assasination of Ald Moro was. Everybody and their dgos knows at this heights that the assasination of Aldo Moro was organized by the Gladio networks of the "deep state" to keep the communists ( second political force in Italy at those times )outm by their utter demonization, from the coaliton of government in the making along with Christian Democrats of Aldo Moro. To that end, the Brigatte Rosse were infiltrated by extrem-right operatives of Logia P-2.

As well as everybody questions what Assad would need to perpetrate a chemical attack for when he was winning the proxy terrorist war on Syria, everybody and their dogs question what a supposed leftist organization like Brigatte Rosse would need for to assasinate the only political leader who was willing to share power with the left in the whole Italy´s, and for extension the world´s, history...

Sheep Pee: “The Credibility of Dr. Steve Pieczenik” – His Biography Told In Yesterday’s Newspapers

“it was important to demonstrate that the Italian state could function effectively in the presence of this crisis.” -Steve Pieczenik

04-24-1978 – “Moro crisis ‘handled well'” – Bangor Daily News

Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, deputy assistant secretary of state for management, said that the government concluded immediately after the ambush of Moro by members of the Red Brigades on March 16 that the action was aimed at destabilizing not only the governing Chritian Democratic Party but also the “nation-state of Italy,” and acted accordingly. ¶ He said that in strategy sessions of the cabinet under the minister of the interior, Frencesco Cossiga, which he attended as a consultant for two weeks, the consensus was that the terrorists hoped to provoke such repressive measures that conditions of civil war would develop. This led to the conclusion “it was important to demonstrate that the Italian state could function effectively in the presence of this crisis,” Pieczenik said in an interview. …

Why does he tell us now the "truth" about Bin Landen´s death and not about Aldo Moro´s, if it is for combating terrorism, especially state sponsored one?

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 13:51 utc | 151

I agree that skeptical people should question why the left would assassinate Aldo Moro and why Assad would cross that announced red line with chemical weapons.
I also doubt that Putin would poison an old spy right before Russia hosted the World Cup and that Iran would bomb Japanese oil tankers while the Japanese prime minister was visiting.
I also see no reason why Israel would be pushing the US into attacking Iran, when they know that Iran cannot attack the US, but have already announced that they would attack Israel.
None of these assertions make any sense.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 14 2019 13:58 utc | 152

sasha @151: I think we agree, but for different reasons, I think his name and background sound unconvincing and I want to know why he comes across as such an asshole when you go to view the video. It's kind of obvious that he is selling something, isn't it, not a dispassionate analyst trying to keep you better informed? I really don't like people yelling at me, that's him, not you.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jul 14 2019 14:02 utc | 153

i see you didn't like my first comment so you deleted it, for what?

All I said was that the Epstein affair is part of the slow dismantling of Israeli power and influence in the United States, and that if you look at the Federal Reserve, all the most recent appointees and proposed appointees under DJT are not Jewish, whereas virtually every predecessor is.

It should be obvious what is going on. He is pretending to be in love with Israel, when in fact is working against it in the back-end. The art of the deal.

Posted by: wakada | Jul 14 2019 14:24 utc | 154

The last time there was a Chair of the Federal Reserve who was not Jewish was 1987, the last year when Paul Volcker held that office.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 14 2019 14:31 utc | 155


That is an excellent compilation of material regarding the history of Doctor Strangelove Peacenik. He's one scary "deep state" spook.

He quit Team Carter, because of Carter's bumbling of the "hostage crisis", then returned for the valiant Raygun.
By now many are aware that Republican ops postponed the hostage return for political advantage (and the deification of Raygun). So Peacenik (anything but a Peacenik) is a liar.

The recent Epstein video linked above which he crafted is quite clever with the intended purpose it seems to catapult Hero Trump. How very "folksy" - homespun - of him to have his wife enter the scene at the end! Yep, he's a psychiatrist, alright.

The trailer park commandos will eat it up.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jul 14 2019 14:31 utc | 156

Anyway this has the potential of making a lot of people lay low in this election. Epstein seems to have collected very much a who's who on all political sides.

Sanders has started an "anti-endorsement" page. It works in his favour.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 14:39 utc | 157

I, and many others, have been treating this thread as a brainstorming session. I've refrained from disagreeing with contributors to the thread because the first rule of brainstorming is that there are no "wrong" suggestions. And a lousy idea has the potential to inspire a good or better one. I also haven't had time to read all the comments and prefer not to waste space saying something which has already been said - which my first comment managed to do :-)

Now, at #153, I've read/skimmed every comment and have noticed that, on a thread about A-List 'parties', there's no mention of Hollywood/ Stars, or Music/ Stars. This begs some questions...
1. "What kind of parties were they/ what was the format/ stated attraction?"
2. "Were the invited blokes encouraged to leave Wifey at home?"
2a. "Were they glorified bachelor parties?"
3. If there was music, were there live bands or were they disco parties and was there much, or any dancing, or just mood music?"
4. "Were they sold as parties or as Bacchanalian Orgies with hot crumpet and cold champagne laid on?"

i.e. if you're inviting strangers, or connected strangers to a party and can't make it sound like fun, nobody is going to show up(?)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 14 2019 14:58 utc | 158

There's another reason for attending such parties besides the prospect of their being fun. That's ambition: the prospect of making contacts with powerful people and of joining a secret elite.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 14 2019 15:06 utc | 159

My revised understanding

I speculated @29 (originally #31) that Epstein was a threat to Trump because he could name him as one of those who engaged in underage sex even if Trump didn't.

I now think that this re-opening of the Epstein case is just political CYA driven by the Miami Herald reporting. Essentially, more 'Trump Show' nonsense. Likely that nothing will come of it.

I think Epstein-Ghislane had a Mossad connection and the CIA intervened on Epstein's behalf (hence Acosta's "belonged to intelligence") but everything was settled in 2009 and it's highly unlikely that that settlement is allowed to be undone.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 14 2019 15:50 utc | 160

This is strange

Media reports golden dome and statues on the temple at Little St. James were lost due to Hurricane Irma in 2017.

Today, Google maps shows the dome and statues still in place; with "Imagery copyright 2019 Google map data copyright 2019"

If google maps is correct, it means that these components were not lost in a hurricane, but were removed recently.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jul 14 2019 15:56 utc | 161

RayB @ 117

Glen Beck is starting to look like Trotsky. There may be yet hope for the Marxists.

Seriously, these Epstein threads are excellent. Its the best compilation of links, information and speculation that I have ever seen.

Posted by: dltravers | Jul 14 2019 16:06 utc | 162

Now I see where another plausible (maybe simpler) scenario is:
There was really no blackmail, maybe some social pressure and these guys just saw Epstiens parties as fun and providing networking opportunities. And democrats will be able to use all this stupidity againsts repubs which in this case they likely deserve but regardless will be drawn out through elections. So amash is lucky(?) To have bailed.

Posted by: jared | Jul 14 2019 16:11 utc | 163

The theory b in top post is minimalist and accounts for the facts, insofar as known to date, so ++ (out of 3.)

Anything ‘more to it’ is pure speculation imho.

The Epstein case (2006 investigation, 2008 sentencing) would not have failed so badly (in the sense of punishing - not - the perp) and would not have been so bizarre (non-prosecution agreement re. Maxwell and any - unamed! - eventual co-conspirators! - undheard of imho.. which are, in part, as far as I understand it, the very characteristics that brought about the present mess, due to appeals, suits, and counter-suits..see also karlof1 at 54..) without extremely high level pressure and help.

Yes, being outed as having sex with under-age girls on the Lolita Express or on Orgy Island would jar for ex. an ex-President into action to protect his reputation and not be pursued - sure.

Not quite how these things work. The tops protect each other - see, Epstein has divulged nothing, and probably never will - it is not in his interest. He is counting on getting off ‘light’ or light-ish like the last time.

Ilargi, asking why Epstein flew back from Paris to —> be arrested? (bemildred posted this previous.)

Being a fugitive would be worse than dealing with the present sh*t.

Imho, the Kompromat (threat of it - little need be said) was used for purposes beyond filling the coffers of Epstein and insuring his impunity. -- At some point money buys nothing more.

That corruption may have been a side-line, an extra boost, not the first aim, natch. Note, however, that once a threat of revelation/disclosure is made others will be wary, turn away, distance themselves, sever ties, and so on, even if very discreetly, while ostensibly ‘supporting’ the person. Which doesn’t seem to have happened here - after 2008, Epstein was still very much ‘in the circuit’… or not? What am I missing?

Many above (too long to list) have proposed various hypotheses.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 14 2019 16:13 utc | 164

Getting banned for bringing up SP is a bit harsh. :( I used to be a regular on the political blogs and it seems I need to state I am not a Troll, or Trump or Democrat supporter. I don't vote and am not even an American Citizen, but I am an anti-zionist -- True. But as many are now working out it goes far far deeper than just a Zionist agenda and attracting the eye twitchers at the ADL every time anything negative is mentioned about Israel and the Jews.

With the Epstein Case -- yep getting to the next level is where they probably don't want us to explore, for example, what rituals sorry I mean what music was going on at those parties on Cliveden Island.

Posted by: Jayne | Jul 14 2019 16:15 utc | 165

*One* of the lawsuits leading to the present situation.

Searchable transcripts of the the case of J. Epstein (plaintiff) vs. Bradley J. Edwards, et al.

case no xxxx. --- begins 2010. Searchable:

> link to the original legal PDF docs on the page.

MSM explanation, Slate (top of goog)

vid. Manning 8 mins

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 14 2019 16:21 utc | 166

best not to use @numbers without a name to go with it when b is deleting so many posts... use a name too so folks can find what you are referencing..

Posted by: james | Jul 14 2019 16:38 utc | 167

It's not just the Fed chair... look at all the appointees for all the board seats and will see what I am talking about. Under Obama, the members were or appointed: Kohn, Warsh, Kroszner, Mishkin, Duke, Tarullo, Raskin, Powell, Stein, Fischer, Brainard, Yellen.

Under Trump: Quarles, Clarida, Bowman, Powell, Shelton.

Quite the changing of the guard if you ask me. Every single one except Tarullo and Duke were Jewish, since then doesn't appear a single one is. Tarullo was CFR for those that like to read into that. Tell me what I'm missing.

Posted by: wakada | Jul 14 2019 18:06 utc | 168

...Epstein was clearly looking for post-puberty girls. Those are still children and a grown up molesting them is clearly a crime

apparently, the criteria for pedophilia extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13, so, as many of the girls in question were 14 when first molested, even technically you're real close to splitting hairs.

anyhoo, such transgressions of a 14-year-old girl's secret world by an older man are always acts of selfish perversion, even if legal…

'cause within these parameters any serious notion of consent is risible.

Posted by: john | Jul 14 2019 20:45 utc | 169

Just before going to the beach, I had found this interesting video where, apart from developing a rocambolesque story about Putin funding and providing all the logistics and intel for all the US wars, in an exercise of projecting and use of plausible deniability elevated to the category of art, along with the unbelievable story that Putin hosts all the overthrown "dictators" in the world have been in a Russian city where all of them live in harmony together in luxurious villas without bothering each other and pass their time shopping at Gucci and other luxury brands available there for them...Steve Pieczenik, in his tipycal disinfo style of mixing mid-lies with mid-truths to try to get the viewer into his garden, in the end confess that real purpose behind all these manouvers...which is no other than overthrowing the US government to install his intelligence clique....

One guess it is this kind of videos that the ubiquitous trolls who claim that Putin is in cahoots with the US nurture from...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 20:57 utc | 170

Maybe somebody can explain how Trump is coming out clean in all this? The Duran with Alex and Alex defend him while running (and ignoring) PGiraldi's article on Epstein on their site, with Giraldi reporting re a Katie Johnson lawsuit in 2016:

There is also a possible Donald Trump angle. Though Donald may not have been a frequent flyer on the “Lolita Express,” he certainly moved in the same circles as the Clintons and Epstein in New York and Palm Beach, plus he is by his own words roughly as amoral as Bill Clinton. In June 2016, one Katie Johnson filed lawsuit in New York claiming she had been repeatedly raped by Trump at an Epstein gathering in 1993 when she was 13 years old. In a 2002 New York Magazine interview Trump said “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy… he’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it – Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”

Posted by: Eno | Jul 14 2019 21:09 utc | 171

@Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 20:57 utc | 172

Just yesterday I was reading at RT that a new russophobic campaign of demonization of Putin is coming...
I wonder whether this video by Pieczenik is part of that effort...One would think it is...Blaming Putin for all US wars is, what to say, really looping the loop...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 21:10 utc | 172

I could not find any disagreement with what Pieczenik said in the last 20 minutes or so of that video.

Key points:

Our military fight for no good reason; they are cannon fodder.

Our exec, legislative and judicial systems are totally corrupt.

The MIC is sucking up trillions of dollars.

911 was an inside job. Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld involved.

Marco Rubio is a douchebag.

Our allies in the ME are not allies.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Jul 14 2019 21:40 utc | 173

@Posted by: fastfreddy | Jul 14 2019 21:40 utc | 175

Neither did I, but that´s the issue, mixing some obvious truths, already of public domain, btw, with plain lies so as to confuse the people and take them into the garden...

But what do you think on what he finally proposes? That you do not need either President, Congress or Senate nor Judicial System...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 21:45 utc | 174

The theory would be a lot stronger if some math were shown.
For example: Fuel cost for a Boeing 727 is $11,000+ per hour. A guy flying all over the place - say 500 hours a year - would be paying $5.5M for fuel alone. Throw in 2 sets of pilots at $1M minimum, landing fees etc - we're looking at $8M a year minimum.
Then we have the employees. 150 employees at $50K = $7.5M minimum - probably more like $10M. Ongoing costs for all his properties - $1M. Donations, etc - multiple millions per year. Fancy duds, food, hotels, whatever - more money.
This looks like a $30M a year or more setup. If he extorted "a few" million from each victim, he'd need to take down 10 a year. He's been operating for decades - so we're talking hundreds of victims. And this is assuming he's just taking the "investment" and spending it.
If he's doing "2 and 20", then we're talking much bigger numbers. Working backwards from $30M output, assuming 10% gain per year: if x = capital, 0.02x (2%) plus 0.1x * 0.2 (20% of 10% annual gain) = $30M --> x = $750M.
If gain is only 5%, then we're talking $1B.
But again, "a few" million = 3 means 250 investors.
On the other hand, he is linked with Wexner. Wexner is worth $4.7B. less than 20% of Wexner's fortune parked in an offshore entity (and thus tax free) would be sufficient in and of itself - no blackmail required.
The tax free status itself would be more than exciting enough for investors...

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 14 2019 21:55 utc | 175

Posted by: c1ue | Jul 14 2019 21:55 utc | 178

If he was laundering money he would pay out 50 percent to whoever and keep the rest.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 14 2019 22:19 utc | 176

Israel has interests and influence. The Mossad exists, as does Shin Bet, and its agents have not only abducted and brought to trial Eichmann, for which they cannot be recommended highly enough, but have also performed more nefarious operations (PROMIS anyone? Rafi Eitan was involved there as well). This is what secret services do.

It is about political/geopolitical interests and covert operations furthering those interests, not about a grand conspiracy of "the Jews". Right now, just for example, it should be clear to the crowd gathered at the bar that British operations in Syria (LeMesurier, HBG) and the US (Steele) are far more important than anything Israel does.

Israel Shamir is an anti-Semite, and his MAGA or MEGA (can't remember and don't care) appears to be merely an updated version of the Elders of Zion conspiratorial fantasy (as Richard Hofstadter would say, who was far too smart to use the term "conspiracy theory").

I am grateful for anyone on this very valuable blog who opposes the anti-Semitic conspiratorial fantasists (easily discernible by their references to "goyim" and "shekels" etc.). A rational discussion of Israel's influence on world events is, of course, always welcome.

Posted by: Cherrycoke | Jul 14 2019 22:27 utc | 177


Agreed. In his video Pieczenik is very forthcoming and I for once was on side with pretty much all he said.

His past is as a high-ranking CIA officer and senior manager at the US State Department. So of course he’s supported nefarious activity of the Empire over the decades, including Operation Gladio. And he in other videos boasts of clandestinely working to undermine the USSR. He’s much further to the right politically than I care for.

However, this particular video was something else.

It adds to all the evidence that the Western neo-colonial Empire represented by the US-NATO-Israeli-Saudi alliance with vassal partners ANZ, Japan, Sth Korea - is split. A state of cold civil war in The West seems to prevail at present, with nationalist/sovereigntist/patriot faction versus a globalist/financial/transnational corporatocracy cabal.

Both are capitalist and can agree on trying to overthrow Venezuela and steal its oil. Nonetheless the split seems bitter to say the least.

The nationalist faction appears to have some morals though. Major false flags like 9/11 and the trafficking of child sex slaves and possibly evil sacrifice rituals in ancient looking temples like Epstein’s temple or crypts in old abbeys and mansions - is where they draw the line. Assassination of an Italian prime minister or hundreds of Bologna train station travellers to ‘save’ Italy from communism was perhaps a price worth paying (to paraphrase Madeleine Albright).

At least back then, maybe at some point the ‘ends justify the means’ got some to question the means? People can change, different factions can form over time.

Also I’d add that Q anon has well proven itself to be the voice of this nationalist (or ‘patriot’ as Q prefers) faction, whereas the MSM (with probable exception of Fox News) is globalist controlled - hence continue to flig the dead horse of Russiagate to not just bash Trump, but because of the increasingly mortal enemy the faction that backs Trump is to them.

Posted by: PJB | Jul 14 2019 22:40 utc | 178

@Posted by: PJB | Jul 14 2019 22:40 utc | 182

Your binary oversimplification of events seems to imply that or yo uare with Trump and the far-right or you are by defect with the globalists neocons, which only benefits those both supposed contenders ( which they are not IMO...)

That is just the dichotomy insider people like Pieczenik wants to stablish.

Fortunately, there is a lot of people, the silent majority, out of those two cabals, who by any hint of imagination will support the overthorwing of the elected government on bahlf of go to know what...Most probably a fascist dictatorship with the security services at the helm.

Just the style of Pieczenik videos, sometimes with his face so close to the screen, reminds too much of Big Brother to be something good...This is a professional manipulator, and the fact that he has passed most of his life at the service of the deep state cabal gives an idea of what is to be expected with them in charge...

Adult people does not change so much...

Posted by: Sasha | Jul 14 2019 22:53 utc | 179


I largely agree with your take on Epstein. But please describe a plausible scenario in which the US's attempt to "take care" of Iran for Israel doesn't immediately lead to the destruction of Tel Aviv by Hezbollah rockets? Everybody knows this will happen should the US commit to the kind of bombardment campaign necessary to set Iranian defense capabilities back a decade. I don't see any scenario in which the Israel plan will work absent a coordinated nuclear attack on the Hezbollah line together with key Iranian targets. And I don't think Trump will go nuke.

Posted by: WJ | Jul 14 2019 23:09 utc | 180

Epstein's crowd of rich sex perverts all know each other and they hate blackmail. If this was a blackmail operation he could have snagged a few fish, but once word got out no one would have gone to his parties. Who the hell would go to pedo fantasy island if they knew or even suspected it was all a blackmail set up?

Epstein's girls were servicing British royals and American presidents. The client list looks like high end luxury class sex trafficking for the rich and powerful. This doesn't exclude the possibility the whole thing was set up or infiltrated by some intelligence service(s), but the game would be to quietly use the girls to gather intelligence rather than using them to play blackmail hardball against people.

Clearly there are spooks all over this thing, falling off of yachts in the dead of night, and who the hell is Epstein really? So many interesting people with strange pasts. Ken Starr, the guy who controlled the Clinton sex investigation is Epstein's lawyer. I think that many more surprises are coming, and I suspect that some of the stories are going to be horrific. Why else do you need your own island?

Posted by: Foxbat | Jul 14 2019 23:11 utc | 181

@WJ #184

Get the feeling Pence would use nukes. But how can they get Trump out of the way?


Posted by: Zack | Jul 14 2019 23:37 utc | 182

Peacenik says get rid of the whole system. And replace it with what?

The House may have some usefulness. The Senate is comprised of 100 prostitutes for big business.

Get rid of the Senate. Ok. That would be a good thing.

The Supreme Court is stacked with more prostitutes for big business.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jul 15 2019 0:14 utc | 183

I don't believe this theory. The ultra-wealthy have ways of disposing of people should they attempt to blackmail, esp Clinton.

Posted by: perpetualWAR | Jul 15 2019 0:24 utc | 184

Kristian Hinton @187,

If you can't fire them at will, they're lords, not representatives. The Platonic meme of nobility is what needs to be overthrown.

Posted by: Jonathan | Jul 15 2019 0:31 utc | 185

Hugh Hefner had a chain of clubs and an extremely popular magazine that made him very rich and famous, which attracted the same. I pined to become 21, get my own Key Card, and go to the San Francisco Club, but that part of his business began to be liquidated before I came of age. Epstein's operation strikes me as very similar to Hefner's, except it appears he was gifted it instead of creating it from scratch, and his clientele was very select. The drawback was his Bunnies were under 18.

Sexual Sin within the USA has a very twisted history given the nation's Puritan roots--lurid and scandalous, even when consenting adults were involved. Many reasons are given for his operation to not include blackmail. If so, then what was the inducement for his rich clients to invest in his hedge fund and others? The insider knowledge he gleaned from his clients perhaps? I put forth the possibility his "intel" link was for the purposes of laundering CIA monies, for which it has a great need, particularly at his operation's inception. Like Prohibition Era Gangsters, the CIA would want to invest its ill gained loot in legitimate businesses to make more money legally while using them to launder. The CIA wouldn't want the operational details of any of its operations looked into, which provides the motive for closing down the first trial so quickly and sealing everything--rushing the process is what undid it later. Epstein was ordered to return as soon as the unsealing order was made to again quash any deeper investigation. After much investigation, IMO there's no electoral political angle to this affair--BUT--there's the potential to uncover part of the CIA's dirty laundry which does threaten numerous powerful people from both parties.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 15 2019 0:55 utc | 186

If i'm a billionaire and I want young girls I don't need Epstein to get them for me.

Posted by: roberto | Jul 15 2019 1:16 utc | 187

Roberto @191--

Thanks for making that observation--the first person at MoA to do so! Thanks!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 15 2019 1:39 utc | 188

@ Roberto who wrote
If i'm a billionaire and I want young girls I don't need Epstein to get them for me.
Yes and no. Didn't we just observe the Billionaire owner of one of the big football clubs get caught getting sucked off?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 15 2019 1:53 utc | 189


But the thought of doing so might not occur to you until you're suddenly presented with the opportunity. And the opportunity is not only to have a girl but also to join a secret elite.

Posted by: lysias | Jul 15 2019 1:56 utc | 190

According to a book I read about the CIA, the Mafia and the Vatican, the Vatican charges 20 percent to launder money for either the CIA or the Mob. They're not picky, they just want their 20 percent.

The CIA loved the Vatican Bank, because it prefers the off-books money to do its dirty deeds. And of course the Vatican bank's books are not open to scrutiny by any person or agency. Autonomous. Sovereign.

In recent years, other banks have become available for money laundering. Often, the CIA requires the convenience of a local branch.

Posted by: Kristan hinton | Jul 15 2019 2:19 utc | 191

@ Kristan hinton with the Vatican money laundering claim

As an ex-catholic I am not surprised. That guy Jesus may have been a socialist but the Catholic church is all in with the religion of global private finance (God of Mammon) and abusing young boys

All those monotheistic religion believers just need to have more FAITH that their sect is doing God's work and then all will be right with the world......

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 15 2019 2:53 utc | 192


Shortly after Epstein's arrest, lawmakers and advocacy groups called for those who were involved in protecting the well-connected mogul to be investigated. High-profile figures connected to Epstein include Acosta, Trump and former President Bill Clinton.

"[Secretary Acosta] must step down," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wrote on Twitter earlier this week. "As U.S. Attorney, he engaged in an unconscionable agreement w/ Jeffrey Epstein kept secret from courageous, young victims preventing them from seeking justice. This was known by @POTUS when he appointed him to the cabinet."

Acosta was installed for this reason. This is a setup. Thought the goal may be to put in Pence, looking more like the goal is to put in Pelosi, who is 2nd in the line of succession. They are sacrificing the Clintons and others to remove the Trump admin.

Check out Pelosi's wiki, regarding positions on Israel.

Netanyahu can use this against Barak and Pelosi will be greatly indebted to Israel for making this happen. Get the Trump admin out of the way and Pelosi will do whatever she is asked of, eg Iran.

Posted by: Zack | Jul 15 2019 3:22 utc | 193

A sayanim (sing. Sayan; Hebrew: helpers, assistants) is a Jew living outside Israel who volunteers (or more appropriately is emotionally blackmailed) to provide assistance to Israel and/or the Israeli Mossad utilizing the capacity of their own nationality to procure assistance. This assistance includes facilitating medical care, money, logistics, and even overt intelligence gathering. Estimates put the number of sayanim in the hundreds of thousands.

Jacob Cohen explains the Sayanim (Mossad's volunteer agents)

Sayanim: Israeli Operatives in the U.S.

The Sayanim army - the largest fifth column in The World

Posted by: curious man | Jul 15 2019 4:02 utc | 194

"Iran Contra was a spin":

"A spin to distract attention from the real scandal, which was... a scandal about them(CIA) being the source of the crack cocaine epidemic in the black & latin neighboroud in the 80s."
Paul Oquist Kelley speaks to Afshin Rattansi."

Old history becomes fresh news. Acosta's resignation's simple damage control. All the Mossad chatter is just that. The big story has always been CIA involvement with drugs--it's how it finances all its black ops and pays its terrorist armies. Of all its secrets, it's the most important and closely guarded. Break the seal and expose that Truth, and the Current Oligarchy's private guard will be devoured at home and worldwide.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 15 2019 4:43 utc | 195

@ karlof1 with the Iran Contra spin story

Thanks for all the research you are doing to bring truth to us lazy MoA barflies.

It isn't just cocaine from South America, it is also opium from Afghanistan that is also controlled by the private guard for the elite that own global private finance and most else.....except China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, ????

If global finance were made public it would put an end to the funding for the private guard protecting the elite cult's asses from being brought to trial for crimes against humanity....and this process is waaaaay too slow for my current mindset.....sigh

Epstein is small potatoes in the bigger scheme of global perfidy but is providing a convenient distraction/cover/setup for further elite machinations to maintain control as the steamroller of China looks over their shoulder.......I think within a year catastrophic change will occur in our geo-political, economic breakdown/bankruptcy, but hopefully not war for empire continuance.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 15 2019 5:11 utc | 196

psychohistorian @200--

Thanks for your reply! Something that bugs me is it's the Right that's instigated this attack on their own side. Cernovich and Nick Monroe who runs a Twitter "news" outlet called News Chute are all for seeing Epstein rot in prison as are those commenting on their threads--thousands of people. There's some talk about Clinton and Obama, but the real animosity isn't directed at them. IMO, they expected Obama and Clinton to lie, mislead and worsen their existence, but now it's their own that's double-crossed them, just as Obama did to the millions who voted for him. I don't think I'm misreading their sentiments. Two destabilized angry masses not willing to listen to each other is trouble begging to happen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 15 2019 5:39 utc | 197

@ karlof1 with further comment about what seems to be the Right attacking itself.

The only thing I believe is this is being "produced" by the real elite as part of some plan to keep global private finance viable in the coming world. As I just posted on the Open Thread, the religious Right is losing its moral high ground (not that it ever was there, mind you).

The West is a top/bottom world supported by hypocritical religious folk who are learning the their religion will not get them a place at the governance table in are correct about all these brainwashed masses "...not willing to listen to each other is trouble begging to happen."

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 15 2019 5:56 utc | 198

Posted by: Eliav Blizowsky | Jul 15 2019 7:23 utc | 203

You mean a network of the rich and glitzy?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 15 2019 7:38 utc | 199

re Eliav Blizowsky | Jul 15 2019 7:30 utc | 204, and the comment before that, you forgot the /sarc.

Posted by: eagle eye | Jul 15 2019 9:42 utc | 200

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