They talk about - - doing what is in America’s best interest !
But beyound doubt that’s the big lie. The truth is they do what is in the interest of the Arms industry and there share holders, also the banks who make money funding death and distruction! It’s a public diseption to defraud , extort public taxes, to steal land and resources from weaker country’s not for the US public gain, but there own personal gain (2 victems including you)
For the American public / tax payer it’s an insane buseness plan, investing trillions of your dollars for what benifit ? None !
Invest that same money in infrastructure, agriculture, productive manufacture and care for your public ! Look at the returns you would reap !
You have no enemy’s you are not under attack ! It’s a lie !
Your enemy is your leaders.

Here’s a good read ! And remember build bridges
https://aboutfaceveterans.org/the-demonization-of-ilhan-omar-and-fascism-red-flags-in-the-united-states/

How much will a war with Iran cost and what will ‘you’ personaly gain ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 19 2019 9:57 utc | 101

Interesting on Shanahan:

A person with knowledge of the situation was quoted as saying that Pentagon officials, including outgoing Acting Defence Secretary Patrick Shanahan, have been "the ones putting the brakes" on hawks at the State Department and the White House.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201906191075951655-mike-pompeo-military-action-against-iran/

Posted by: Zanon | Jun 19 2019 10:24 utc | 102

Mark2

Exactly right.

Posted by: donkeytale | Jun 19 2019 10:46 utc | 103

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/19/598873/Iraq-Basra-rocket-attack-Exxon
Burjesia, also houses the headquarters of Royal Dutch Shell PLC and Italy’s Eni SpA.Rocket lands at oil hub.. injures 3

Apparently 46 weapons have been stolen from a Israeli military base in the Golan according to some reports? Not sure..

Maybe the parties behind the rocket attacks on the ships have surfaced, or a response of one producer to another has been exposed?
possible thesis: oil producers are warring with each other. maybe these attacks with not very powerful weapons are not nation state inspired at all, but instead constitute the weapons and assaults inspired by a private party war? The two sides were not interested to have the nation state involved, but were doing an Al Capone kind of thing.. Could it be that the mystery rockets that crippled the ships last week and the Basra.. attack on Exxon facilities be related? Are we looking at a between private producer war.. instead of a nation state standoff. ? Not likely, but enough maybe to consider it?

Posted by: snake | Jun 19 2019 11:09 utc | 104

The unilateral sanctions on Iran, as are the secondary sanctions, are against International law [no don’t laugh]. They are in fact acts of war, please remember that sanctions against Iraq caused the deaths of 500,000 children, to which Sec of State Madeline Albright said was a price worth paying. Iran cannot and will not let the same thing happen to them, this time millions starving to death. they have no other option, they can capitulate, or force the issue through threatening to close the Strait, therefore pushing the price of oil through the roof, which ultimately would be blamed on Trump. There are no good options, you capitulate or you resist, the Iranians have chosen to resist, who can blame them? Because Iran has a limited air defence capacity its best option if war commences is definitely to go on the offensive, starting with all airfields in the gulf region including Qatar where the B52’s take off, then the US fleet in Bahrain and any aircraft carriers foolish enough to be within ballistic missile range https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/18/598843/Iran-United-States-ballistic-missile-technology-IRGC-Salami Saudi /UAE oil infrastructure would be included and possibly strikes on Israeli. Sounds too messy doesn’t it, that’s why it’s unlikely to happen, hopefully.

Posted by: Harry Law | Jun 19 2019 11:25 utc | 105

@ Harry Law.

This is a difficult topic, not because we don't know the intent to cause damage, but because isolation by rejection of trade is normally considered the right of another country. So far I have not seen a proper essay that tackles trade as a natural right between individuals that any country should not be allowed to interfere with, but as nation is partly formed by control and management of national economy it gets incredibly complex and just rest with the pivot of individual vs state rights, probably as an ideal rather than pragmatic route. It would be good if an author could tackle this in depth, or link an existing piece if that exists. Maybe this has become the tool of globalisation - destruction of national boundaries by highlighting them as a problem.

In the meantime I am preparing a text that examins the possibility of EU/US complicity. This goes back to the gulf war and the impression of support Saddam was fed by France et al, it goes back to the invasion of Kuwait, the Iran Iraq war as well, includes Syria and Libya. The pattern has repeated so many times it starts to speak as of being purposeful. What makes me say this is the

"By blaming Trump for Iran's aggression, the EU is making war with the ayatollahs more likely" headline by The Telegraph. Even that view adds to the confusion because it implies maybe that by blaming Iran that the result will be peaceful - none of these tackle the deeper state of play. E.g. EU still follows sanctions and has taken the role of arbiter or misleader over only the most visible and presentable point, i.e. a tanker on fire.

(p.s. thanks james for your reply in previous thread).

Posted by: Anon | Jun 19 2019 13:18 utc | 106

Not so much fascinating as completely deranged, all of them both in that country and elsewhere and they have stiff competition as to who is worst. It isn't impossible that the whole planet is insane in one way or another :|

Species might have some kind of narrow "ideal" ratio of belligerence and intelligence, below it they remain non-technological and overly vulnerable at different levels and above it they are increasingly likely to eradicate themselves.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 19 2019 13:45 utc | 107

My last comment was a reply to Harry Law | Jun 19, 2019 5:49:23 AM | 100

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 19 2019 13:47 utc | 108

Sanctions do not constitute warfare, as implicitly defined on the UN Charter, but they have become a natural, peaceful attempt by the US world hegemon in conducting "behavior-correction" in those countries which defy US rule.
The basic problem is that one of the first principals of the UN Charter is totally violated, and the UN Security Council has done nothing about it. "The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles. . . The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members."
Apparently sovereign equality can't exist when one country controls world banking, and there is no political "sovereign equality" even at the UN Security Council, with its chosen "world leaders" consisting mainly of western nations. The UN General Assembly is more democratic but has no authority.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 19 2019 14:01 utc | 109

According to the Charter of the United Nations, only the UN Security Council has a mandate by the international community to apply sanctions (Article 41) that must be complied with by all UN member states (Article 2,2). They serve as the international community's most powerful peaceful means to prevent threats to international peace and security or to settle them.
UN sanctions should not be confused with unilateral sanctions that are imposed by individual countries in furtherance of their strategic interests.
Whatever the legalities of a country imposing its own sanction, surely it should not be able to impose secondary sanctions on other [vassal] states. That is a matter for the secondary sanctioned state, either to obey the mafia or to resist [Turkey S400, Germany Nord Stream 2 etc] or suffer the consequences. As I intimated earlier thanks to the US, International law is dead, the US is taking Chairman Mao’s maxim “Power grows out the barrel of a gun” and hopes that everyone else notes this new form of diplomacy i.e. “You have some nice property, hope nothing happens to it, know what I mean Gov’nor”?

Posted by: Harry Law | Jun 19 2019 14:42 utc | 110

Charles Manson, his minions, and the Manson caper killed the peace movement. Nobody wanted to be a hippie anymore after they trotted out Manson. They still trot him out now and again as a reminder to any old hippies.

And you can't collect rain water or live off the grid without breaking the law, so don't get any crazy ideas about communal living and growing your own food.

Dirty crazy Manson. Booga Booga!

Posted by: Fastfreddy | Jun 19 2019 14:51 utc | 111

re Don Bacon 79

War pays . .These news articles, covering a couple years, featuring Yemeni sandal-wearing peasants destroying Saudi invader vehicles -- caught my eye:
>Yemeni forces destroy Saudi armored vehicles in Jizan, Najran
>Houthi forces destroy 3 UAE armored vehicles in western Yemen
>Houthi Rebels Smash Multiple Coalition Armored Vehicles
>Houthi fighters also destroyed 16 armored vehicles of the coalition
and then ....
>For Saudi Military Vehicle Deal, Canada Weighs Jobs And Human Rights . . workers with the Canadian division of U.S. defense company General Dynamics Corp. are building the eight-wheeled, amphibious vehicles for Saudi Arabia's National Guard.

I can sort of see the point you're making, but it's somewhat skewed isn't it? The Saudis didn't go to war in Yemen because of the US. Only the US could have given a little extra push. Nor, I think would the US have known that the Saudi troops would refuse to fight when faced with the Houthis. US advisors don't understand the Saudi mentality that well. More likely the US is benefiting from an unexpected windfall of destroyed vehicles, which they're happy to see, for the replacement orders, but hadn't anticipated. Then there was that story that US special forces, or Marines, I forget which, had to be sent to Najran to support the sagging front. Dead Americans is not part of the plan, I think.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 19 2019 15:18 utc | 112

President Trump has picked Mark Esper as the next acting Secretary of Defense. Esper, current Secretary of the Army, and a classmate of Pompeo at West Point in 1986, is a strong proponent of a modernized army, and he will work with Army General Mark Milley (next Joint Chiefs Chairman) to make that a reality. Two Marks for Army!

The US Army is desperately fighting to remain relevant since the regime-change scenario hasn't worked out in every country where it's been tried. So it's back to the Cold War, countering the big guys on land. Russia has been successfully revived as a threat in Europe, which is just made for the Army with its tanks and self-propelled howitzers. So keep those in the force and most importantly in the budget. China is much more difficult to imagine as a US Army theater of operations, but Esper is there too.

We need to modernize together. And we need to build those capabilities. Because when we fight as a coalition we're far, far more likely to have success ... the Pacific is a vast area covered by a lot of water. But it depends where the fight ends up. We talk about fighting in the first island chain or the second, but who knows where the first scrap if it happens, and let's hope it doesn't, with the Chinese ends up. But when we think about it we think about some of the Army's modernization priorities. So you think about number one for us: long-range precision fires. . .here

Hey, let's look on the bright side. With the US military budget at a fixed level more or less, dollars going toward a useless army are dollars not available for the Navy and Air Force, where new ships and planes have major problems and old ships and planes can't be properly maintained. Top priority China's a very long distance away over a very large ocean.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 19 2019 15:29 utc | 113

As’ad AbuKhalil--The Angry Arab writes an excellent article:

"Leaders May Fall But US Maintains Tyrannies: Protesters in the Sudan and Algeria have learned from the counter-revolutions and know it is not enough to oust a single tyrant."

The following is why:

"Because the regimes were so closely associated with the face of the tyrant, Arab protesters wrongly assumed that the ouster of the leader would easily institute the formation of a new regime. Yet, the picture has proven to be more complicated. While Arab regimes are led by tyrants, they don’t rule on their own, but with a social-class alliance of beneficiaries. Furthermore, the U.S. and Western governments in general fund and/or arm Arab regimes to guarantee longevity of rule. When Western governments speak about the stability of the Middle East they merely mean the stability of their economic and political interests — and the political and military interests of their ally, Israel.

"The U.S. has built a complex network of local clients whose survival are not tied entirely to the despot. The U.S. now has organic links with the entire top brass of Arab militaries and with the leaders of the intelligence services. Those prove valuable to the U.S., and to Israeli occupation and the aim of peace between it Arab countries."

There's more to be gleaned from the essay, and it might seem obvious that these former colonies have their own swamps that need draining before a truly independent nation can be considered to have emerged. Iran is a clear example of such a house cleaning. The Outlaw US Empire's devastation of Iraq also aided greatly in draining its swamp. And the War on Syria has helped also, thus helping to solidify the Arc of Resistance. But as we look at Hong Kong for example, it's clear that even it retains its colonial swamp and is infested with anti-democratic NGOs of the NED-type.

So, the conflict between the Outlaw US Empire and Iran is actually more far reaching than it seems on the surface, as its ramifications are felt throughout the MENA region. Sudan and Algeria and perhaps Tunisia are on the leading edge of grassroots citizen movements to gain total control of their national governments and bear watching. For if they can succeed, others will follow.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2019 15:30 utc | 114

@ Laguerre 112
re: Yemen
No big deal, I just love the irony of it. The Saudis are getting whupped and goody-goody Canada is profiting from it, while politically supporting the US (and implicitly the Saudi tyrants).
Yea-man!

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 19 2019 15:36 utc | 115

@ karlof1 114
It's important to note that those "grassroots citizen movements" which threaten US despotic allies are officially called "terrorists" by the US, and so countering freedom movements comes under the "war on terror." In those cases where the despotic government is not a US ally then the US special forces (assassinators) are called in to get the proper revolution going, and the people who resist that become first "insurgents" and later "terrorists."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 19 2019 15:46 utc | 116

Don Bacon@114 From your link...But it's not just about China.
Long-range artillery and missile strike capabilities will also enable NATO to gut a Russian combined arms offensive into Europe. Russian blitzkrieg strategy is focused on rapid land seizure covered by high-capability air defense strongholds. But if the Army can turn those air defense units to dust, the Air Force can then wreck Russian ground units.
These fuckers have gone out of their minds,what next a nuclear strike on both China and Russia on the basis of these excellent odds, the US can destroy Russia/China 10 times over, whereas Russia/China can only destroy the US 5 times over. Please Mark, stop running away from the orderlies, they are only trying to help you.

Posted by: Harry Law | Jun 19 2019 16:05 utc | 117

Don @ 88
Thanks for pointing that out. I weary of the "peace" movement in the US who scream for a new draft, because it is their opinion that, if enough "middle class" kids die, there will be a revival of those fun mass demonstrations they attended as teenagers. It baffles me that they look at dead American teenagers as a plus, while claiming to oppose war.
They ignore the fact that more people turned out in 2003 to protest the upcoming invasion of Iraq than any of the demos in the 60s, with no draft, and to no avail.
Yes, the soldiers in Vietnam tired of the slaughter and started refusing and fragging. The Army lost a lot of potential brass, when their rotation through the war zone ended abruptly.
They not only ended the draft, they turned to proxy armies and death squads, and mechanized the war machine. Who needs boots on the ground when you can pound from the sky, use drones, pay mercenaries and bribe top officials in the targeted country?
As for Iran, they have a long term plan which does involve seducing the young (a big bolus of youth injected after the 1980 war, when the Iranian authorities encouraged breeding to make up for those lost), with the usual appealing US "culture", heavy on hedonism and fun. I'm sure that they are also probing for traitors in the Iranian armed forces. That's how they roll.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 19 2019 16:05 utc | 118

It is not international law that is dead.

It is the US that is dead, terminally ill, a rotten corpse so big it has yet to hit the ground.

This is plenty reason good enough for Iran not to have done anything foolish and plenty reason enough for the US to be the default suspect.

Despite this maybe someone needs to put it out of its misery in its dying moments before it spews more rotten puss upon itself and the world. Does the US military have the balls, no, los cojones, to deliver a coup de grâce (blow of mercy) to the existing US so as to truly deescalate and give both themselves and the world a chance?

Because that would be better for all than any more wars.

Scenarios are planned for almost any conceivable situation, do they have one for this and if so have they already begun preparations? If it is "not impossible" that Iran has flying invisible limpet mines then surely it is not impossible that Trump got elected by people striving for crisis minimization?

One can dream :)

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 19 2019 16:24 utc | 119

U.S. Navy Finds Fingerprints, Suspects Iran Of Attacking Tankers In Gulf

Kido added, "The limpet mine that was used does bear a striking resemblance to that which has been publicly displayed in Iranian military parades. There are distinguishing features." Speaking of the handprint and fingerprints, he said, ‘We recovered biometric information ... which can be used to build a criminal case to hold the individuals responsible accountable.”

Knew this was coming as soon as that handprint image was released. Beyond incredible! Only way they would be this obvious about fake evidence is if they knew a major escalation is coming.

All of this obviously fake evidence will not seem important by many after this upcoming "attack". It will be buried by the ensuing deluge of disinformation.

US military needs to immediately get their ships out of the area.

Posted by: Zack | Jun 19 2019 17:12 utc | 120

Don Bacon @116--

Si! Es verdad!

You asked about what constitutes US interests. What I excerpted explains part and more are within the article. You may recall the maxim: The Business of America is Business. You may also recall Kennan's observation in 1947 that the US has only 6% [then]of global population but consumed more than 60% of global natural resources and that it would be up to US policy to try and keep that going as long as possible in the face of rising global resistance. Nixon's move away from gold and the adoption of Neoliberalism by Carter in 1978 marked the escalation of what Hudson had already described as Super Imperialism via financial means--all in an attempt to continue that disparity Kennan remarked upon. Reagan/Bush marked the beginning of offshoring jobs in total violation of the 1946 Full Employment Act, while putting up Japan as the real enemy of the American working class instead of US policy. Recall CIA's Casey boasting about total narrative control via corporate media in support of that policy. The Contra War launched the Drug War as CIA provided crack cocaine to inner city gangs like Crips and Bloods, while new machine pistols like the Uzi made drive-by shootings horrific. The result was Reagan's successful assault on welfare programs which worsened inner city conditions followed by Clinton's Crime Bill, which initiated the for-profit Prison Industrial Complex. NAFTA was a huge lie as Perot detailed just as much as Trickle-down was as its promoted David Stockman finally confessed after the damage was done, but never rectified via reverse legislation. And I haven't even begun to talk about the end of the Cold War and Russia's raping.

All the above was done to service the Current Oligarchy, which has evolved since its rise in the late 1870s as New Money supplanted Old Money. But it's always at its base been The Money Power that's driven what the federal government has conceived as US Interests. In Empire as a Way of Life, William Appleman Williams sought to describe how fundamental national interests drove policy formation and evolved overtime in tandem with the evolving economy. In the course of two volumes co-authored with political-economist George HE Smith, Charles Beard attempted to describe/explain what was meant by National Honor/National Interest--The Idea of National Interest: An Analytical Study in American Foreign Policy, 1933, and The Open Door at Home: A Trial Philosophy of National Interest, 1934. Though dated, those two volumes offer the best explanation and portrayal of what ought to be versus what constitutes the USA's National Interest. I used excerpts from all three when I taught as textbooks were bereft of proper explanations/definitions. In the first volume, the second chapter is entitled: "The Constitution as a Conception of National Interest," wherein Beard dissects The Federalist and details its many appeals to national interest without using the word national. That 20 page chapter is well worth the price of the whole book, with the entire book being priceless for its insight as is its companion volume. University libraries ought to have both, and they can be found used at reasonable prices. I haven't seen them digitized yet.

It ought to be very clear that the Outlaw US Empire isn't run in any way that's compatible with the genuine national interest. Rather, it's run for the sole benefit of the Current Oligarchy, which allows crumbs to fall to the floor for the hoi polloi. In many ways, the USA differs little from Sudan or Algeria from the common people's POV. Control over the direction of the National Interest is ultimately about controlling governmental power, which was readily recognized by the 19th Century's Populists. Until the US citizenry wrests control of the federal government and completely drains the swamp of the former regimes, what constitutes the genuine national interest will never be followed except in those rare occurrences when one facet corresponds to what the Current Oligarchy desires. Given that reality, the internal USA represents a colony relative to the Current Oligarchy and is treated as such.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2019 17:25 utc | 121

Zack @120--

USN has zero credibility. Might as well say they found novichok smeared on the hull too. Earlier I posted a link to a page showing Iranian limpet mines. Could you lift 54kgs two meters out of the water to place on the hull of a moving tanker? How about the strongest Navy Seal of all time? I thought not. But that's what the USN is asking people to swallow. Is it any wonder that Germany, Japan and other nations have said they can't eat that pile of BS?

Unfortunately for US oil frackers, oil price remains well below the level required for profitable operations, and Brent's down $10 over the past 30 days, currently at $61.75. There's no indication that the shipping attacks have raised the cost of doing business aside from a small increase in spot-charter rates. As noted, Saudi needs oil over $70/bbl for its national budget to stay out of the red. It appears those with lots of money in the game don't expect much to happen beyond rising rhetoric.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2019 17:47 utc | 122

Pompeo and Bolton are running US foreign policy. If anybody gets fired it is most likely to be Trump. LOL

Posted by: goldhoarder | Jun 19 2019 18:08 utc | 123

How could US have a picture of a limpet mine with a tape measure across it?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 19 2019 18:12 utc | 124

Meanwhile, there's the Trade War between the Outlaw US Empire and China. Global Times signals Chinese resolve will not weaken in the face of whatever the Yankees do:

"Negotiation outcomes are not often obtained through talks, but through fights. If desiring a good negotiation result, China must persist and not fear.

"China's fearless attitude of over a month will not be in vain. It has sent a clear signal to Washington: China can never be daunted. If the US imposes unfair conditions on China, it must be prepared for a protracted trade war and bear the consequential losses together with China."

Trump has said he'll talk trade with Xi at G-20 and even hints at making a deal. Well, such deals are consummated by long talks between lesser officials and then signed off by leaders; they are not done the other way round. The best Trump can hope for is Xi to agree to resume negotiations with zero preconditions. For those who missed it, Here's Escobar's announcement of Huawei's own OS readiness and other options that are far more advanced than Western corps--and their government sponsors--probably thought. The upshot is the war on Huawei and Chinese tech's likely to blow-up in Trump's face.

TrumpCo finds itself backed into numerous corners in one of the alltime great mismanagements of Empire. Trump will not admit defeat as he abhors the notion of himself as a loser, although he certainly is one of the biggest in terms of his immorality and personal faults. The result is he will continue to stonewall on every front thinking he can outlast the other side. Such fantasyland thinking doesn't make sound policy; it will only make the eventual fall harder. Polls show Trump down 10 pts to both Sanders and Biden; yet, the only faction of his base being satisfied are the Christian-Zionist-Rapturists. On the foreign front, no nation will bend as they see Trump's difficulties and the likelihood of him only lasting one term. In 9 days, the G-20 will be telling.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2019 18:18 utc | 125

The Netherlands has just announced "murder" charges against three Russians and a Ukrainian over MH17, with a trial scheduled next spring which the prosecutors assume will be conducted with the suspects in absentia.

Posted by: jayc | Jun 19 2019 18:28 utc | 126

OT--Domestic US politics 2020 election--

Joe Biden just destroyed his chance to become POTUS, IMO. At a fundraiser populated by Money Power people, Biden provided Sanders with all he'll need to gut his propects:

"But, said Biden, their taxes might have to be raised a little to achieve some of his legislative goals—though he assured the members of the 1 percent in attendance at the Upper East Side Carlyle Hotel that under his plan, the increase wouldn't even be noticeable.

"'The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done,' said Biden. 'We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it's all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished.'

"'No one's standard of living will change,' said Biden. 'Nothing would fundamentally change.'"

Trump-lite; White-Obama; Closet Republican are just a few of the new names for Biden. "We can't abide Biden" would be an excellent placard slogan. No one will "be punished" when hundreds ought to be in prison for the 2007-08 Mortgage and Banking Swindle--including Biden and Obama. Someone said Biden would break himself; I think he just did.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 19 2019 18:40 utc | 127

My apologies if this has already been posted:
"Most see Iran war as likely" www.rasmussenreports.com
The US is inhabited by half-wits.

Posted by: frances | Jun 19 2019 18:55 utc | 128

@105 harry law.. i am not as convinced as you of the level of stupidity here and what is likely to come out of it.. thanks for your comments.. yes - the usa is breaking international law and the spirit that guided it, but this isn't new..

@126 jayc... it is interesting here in light of malaysias leaders recent comments on the lack of any evidence to convince malaysia of russias culpability.. netherlands are working hard as number 3 or 4 poodle as part of the posse..

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad on MH17 5 years later

“You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians,” Mahathir commented. “It could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile…We don’t know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it and the idea was not to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians. This is not a neutral kind of examination.”

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2019 19:14 utc | 129

@ frances | Jun 19, 2019 2:55:00 PM | 128

"The US is inhabited by half-wits."

And led by half-twits

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Jun 19 2019 19:15 utc | 130

"Exclusive: President Trump Calls Alleged Iranian Attack on Oil Tankers 'Very Minor'"

https://time.com/5608787/iran-oil-tanker-attack-very-minor/

Posted by: arby | Jun 19 2019 19:48 utc | 131

"NYT’ readers call out the newspaper for abetting war against Iraq and now Iran"
"473 NY Times commenters chimed in to oppose war on Iran and held the paper responsible for amplifying pro-war narratives. Then NYT admins closed the comment thread"

https://mondoweiss.net/2019/06/readers-newspaper-abetting/

Posted by: arby | Jun 19 2019 19:51 utc | 132

O K sometimes i’m very critical of America (deservedly so) But it’s not that their halfwits, like a top rainge computer it’s just that their programmed with mis-information ! Even their apathy is incouraged.
But i’d but if a campaign we’re started right now, within two weeks you could get a couple of million anti Iran protesters on the streets !
Don’t beleave what America says about Americans even if your American !
Their just writing your script, like a tv soup, don’t let them give a dog a bad name !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 19 2019 20:33 utc | 133

Serious typo on my last comment !!!
Should read - - - anti Iran war protesters
Not anti Iran !
Unforgivable sorry.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 19 2019 20:38 utc | 134

@126 jayc... john helmer discusses this in his article today as well..

MH17 PROSECUTION — THE DUTCH FIRE THEIR BIG GUNS, THE SUBJUNCTIVE AND CONDITIONAL TENSES, PLUS UKRAINIAN SECRET SERVICE TAPES

Posted by: james | Jun 19 2019 20:45 utc | 135

@Uncle Tungsten #72

"Trump barks the orders, Trump is designing this show, minions, no matter how disgusting, jump to it...Trump IS the deep state."

Trump may bark the orders, but he is most certainly not designing the show. He clearly lacks the capacity for designing and implementing complex geopolitical schemes.

We don't really have a deep state, so Trump can't be it, but again, he is too incompetent and superficial to ever embody that sort of thing. On the other hand, we certainly do have power centers that exist behind the scenes. Trump is the one manipulated by eminences crises rather than the manipulator. That's not an attempt to excuse Trump from his responsibility for the clown show that is his administration's foreign policy. It's just being realistic about his overwhelming limitations.

There was a skit once on Saturday Night Live in which the actor playing President Reagan would feign senile incoherence while visitors were in the Oval Office and then, once they had left, become a super-competent dynamo running his staff ragged. You could do a variant of that comic sketch with Trump, substituting his essential dumbness for Reagan's onset of dementia.

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Jun 20 2019 17:09 utc | 136