Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 4, 2019 7:18:55 AM | 103
There are some indications that Cold War 2.0 with Russia is over. And TienAnMen Square is back. OK it has been thirty years this year, but still.
No one died on the square itself.

This effort is impressive, especially considering the overwhelming evidence that there was no Tiananmen Square massacre. A recent book by Madrid’s ambassador to Beijing at the time, Eugenio Bregolat, notes that Spain’s TVE channel had a television crew in the square at the time, and if there had been a massacre, they would have been the first to see it and record it.
He points out angrily that most of the reports of an alleged massacre were made by journalists hunkered down in the safe haven of the Beijing Hotel, some distance from the square.
Then there is Graham Earnshaw, a down-to-earth Reuters correspondent who spent the night of June 3-4 at the alleged site of the massacre — at the center of Tiananmen Square — interviewing students in detail until the troops finally arrived in the early dawn. He too failed to see any massacre. As he writes in his memoirs, “I was probably the only foreigner who saw the clearing of the square from the square itself.”
Earnshaw confirms that most of the students had left peacefully much earlier and that the remaining few hundred were persuaded by the troops to do likewise.
His account is confirmed by Xiaoping Li, a former China dissident, now resident in Canada, writing recently in Asia Sentinel and quoting Taiwan-born Hou Dejian who had been on a hunger strike on the square to show solidarity with the students: “Some people said 200 died in the square and others claimed that as many as 2,000 died. There were also stories of tanks running over students who were trying to leave. I have to say I did not see any of that. I was in the square until 6:30 in the morning.”
…
When armed troops were finally sent in, they too met hostile crowds, but they kept advancing. Dozens of buses and troop-carrying vehicles were torched by the crowds, some with their crews trapped inside. In the panicky fighting afterward, hundreds, maybe even thousands, of civilians and students were killed. But that was a riot, not a deliberate massacre. And it did not happen in Tiananmen Square. So why all the reports of a “massacre”?
In a well-researched 1998 article in the Columbia Journalism Review titled “Reporting the Myth of Tiananmen and the Price of a Passive Press,” the former Washington Post bureau chief in Beijing, Jay Mathews, tracks down what he calls the dramatic accounts that buttressed the myth of a student massacre.
He notes a widely disseminated piece by an alleged Chinese university student writing in the Hong Kong press immediately after the incident, describing machine guns mowing down students in front of the square monument (somehow Reuter’s Earnshaw chatting quietly with the students in front of the same monument failed to notice this.
Mathews adds: “The New York Times gave this version prominent display June 12, just a week after the event, but no evidence was ever found to confirm the account or verify the existence of the alleged witness.”
And for good reason, I suspect. The mystery report was very likely the work of U.S. and British black information authorities ever keen to plant anti-Beijing stories in unsuspecting media.
…
The irony in all this, as Mathews points out, was that everyone, including himself, missed the real story. This was not the treatment of the students, who toward the end of their sit-in had deliberately courted trouble. The real story, as Earnshaw also notes, was the uprising of the civilian masses against a regime whose gray hand of corruption, oppression and incompetence ever since the Cultural Revolution days of the late 1960s had reduced an entire population to simmering resentment.
…
But that was China then. Today we have a very different China, and one far too important to be subjected to black information massacre myths, particularly since the world seems very happy to forget the very public massacres of students that have occurred elsewhere — Mexico in 1968 and Thailand in 1973, for starters. There, we saw no attempt by the authorities to negotiate problems. The troops moved in immediately. Hundreds died.
Photos have helped sustain the Tiananmen massacre myth. One showing a solitary student halting a row of army tanks is supposed to demonstrate student bravery in the face of military evil. In fact, it shows that at least one military unit showed restraint in the face of student provocation (reports say only one rogue unit did most of the evil that night).
Photos of lines of burning troop carriers are also used, as if they prove military mayhem. In fact, they prove crowd mayhem. Meanwhile, we see little photo support for the other side of the story.
Earnshaw notes how a photo of a Chinese soldier strung up and burned to a crisp was withheld by Reuters. Dramatic Chinese photos of solders incinerated or hung from overpasses have yet to be shown by Western media. Photos of several dead students on a bicycle rack near the square are more convincing.
Declassified reports from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing at the time, and which used to confirm the Earnshaw/Hou accounts of square events (they have since been heavily censored), still carry a summary that mentions how the murder by students of a soldier trying to enter the square had triggered violence in the square’s periphery.

People died that night but not only protesters.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 4 2019 12:01 utc | 104

add to 105
The story of the iconic Tien An Men Spare photo with more photos
Subtitle of a photo

A student protester puts barricades in the path of an already-burning armored vehicle. A soldier who escaped the vehicle was killed by demonstrators.

Text

From the hotel balcony, Widener watched as the man confronted the lead tank, standing directly in front of it. The tank stopped and tried to go around the man. The man moved with the tank, blocking its path once again.
At one point during the standoff, the man climbed aboard the lead tank and appeared to speak to whoever was inside.
“I was about a half mile away from the row of tanks and so I could not really hear much,” Widener said.
The man was eventually pulled away by onlookers. To this day, we don’t know who he is and what happened to him. But he remains a powerful symbol of defiance.

It sounds like they tried NOT to kill anybody. They did not have modern instruments of crowd control Western States use routinely eg. against the Yellow Wests. That they did not feel they needed them before 1989 tells you something about Chinese society.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 4 2019 12:37 utc | 106

“TORONTO (Reuters) – Canada will suspend operations at its embassy in Venezuela immediately because its diplomats will no longer be able to obtain visas, the Canadian foreign minister said on Sunday.
Chrystia Freeland said in a statement that President Nicolas Maduro’s “regime has taken steps to limit the ability of foreign embassies to function in Venezuela.” ”

Posted by: arby | Jun 4 2019 14:40 utc | 108

more scientific support that the douma gas attack was staged:
https://washingtonsblog.com/2019/06/eminent-american-scientist-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-was-staged.html

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jun 4 2019 14:53 utc | 110

Dunno james. Obviously a lot of indigenous folk have a problem adjusting to the modern world but I’ve met Canadian natives who have been to university and seem to do fine. Some get into government. Some of them studied law so they may be the ones behind the report.

Posted by: dh | Jun 4 2019 14:56 utc | 112

@dh.. in our politically correct reality – the indigenous folks are given huge perks and incentives.. free hands outs up the wazoo… fortunately some of them take up the opportunities and do well… it isn’t the case with all of them however..

Posted by: james | Jun 4 2019 14:59 utc | 114

BM @109 re Crooke:
I find his take very unconvincing, for lots of reasons, Putin would have to be a fool to trust Trump/USA at this point in such a consequential matter, for one, and to sabotage China for another. It’s just a heck of a reach.
I think he is over-stating Trump’s commitment to the “Greater Israel” project, or his malleability under pressure to the same end, if you prefer. At the same time what comes (or doesn’t) from these “negotiations” should tell us a lot about that, and Crooke is knowledgeable and informative most of the time, he may just have had an off day.
I vaccillate all the time between the “Trump is a shallow tool” point of view and the “Trump is a clever low-grade conman and actor” version, and tend to the latter based on the company he keeps.

Posted by: Bemildred | Jun 4 2019 15:30 utc | 116

@ Bemildred who wrote
”
I vaccillate all the time between the “Trump is a shallow tool” point of view and the “Trump is a clever low-grade conman and actor” version, and tend to the latter based on the company he keeps.
”
LOL! But he is a well dressed grifter hence my Liberace grifter appellation

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 4 2019 16:22 utc | 118

Some may ask, “why is it self-serving?” Isn’t peace in everyone’s interest?
It’s self-serving because the objective is not peace but to manipulate Russia into further delaying any action against Idlib and to disrupt the Russia-Chinese alliance by the appearance of warmer USA-Russia relations.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 4 2019 16:48 utc | 120

All commentators about Crooke’s latest–
Somewhat dumbfounded as much of what he wrote contradicts his previous efforts. As for Trump’s Deal of Century, it’s already a dead duck and Crooke ought to know that. The entire idea/dream of Greater Israel died with Syria’s victory over the terrorist proxy war waged against it. And Russia’s ferocity against the remaining Turkish-backed terrorists in the current offensive is well documented but Crooke ignores it completely. Current comment speculates the goal is to clear the M-5 highway and perhaps also the M-4 to facilitate commerce, which I agree with, but we’ve yet to see the utilization of the major forces assembled in Western Aleppo and the direction they take.
Meanwhile, Pompeo recycles his well worn lies. Most of the world knows which nation broke the JCPOA UN Resolution, but BigLie Media is incapable of telling that truth as that upends its entire Iran Narrative. Earlier in this thread @54 I described the Big Picture reality and the futility of trying to alter it using the same old stories. I’d like to direct MoA to the speech by the Chinese Defense Minister at the annual Shangri-La Conference held recently in Singapore. The Minister has Truth on his side and has no fear when it comes to shoving it in the face of the Outlaw US Empire as exhibited in his opening four points that frame his speech:
“First, which should we choose, peace and development or conflict and confrontation? Peace and development remain the call of our times and the trend of history. However, global and regional hotspots flare up one after another and the risk of conflict and war persists. What is the cause for regional wars and conflicts, the spread of terrorism, the chaos in the Middle East and the refugee crisis in Europe? Who are behind all these and what is the root cause? These are the questions to be reflected on. Some deliberately create division and hostility, provoke confrontation, meddle with regional affairs, interfere in internal affairs of others, and frequently resort to arms. Whose interests on earth do they serve and whose do they harm?
“Second, which should we choose, openness and inclusiveness or isolation and exclusiveness? See the world with an open and inclusive mind, and there will be friends and partners everywhere. See the world with a narrow and exclusive mind, and there are only enemies and adversaries. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. However, lately we see a growing backlash against globalization and a surge of protectionism. A certain country champions unilateralism, puts its own interests before others, withdraws from international treaties and organizations. Aren’t there many countries suffering from the willful infringement and sanctions?
“Third, which should we choose, win-win cooperation or zero-sum game? Win-win cooperation makes the pie bigger and brings more benefits to all. However, zero-sum game makes no winner and harms the interests of both sides. Currently, over 150 countries and international organizations have proactively joined China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). Not long ago, over 6,000 delegates from 150 countries and 92 international organizations gathered in Beijing for the second Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation. People can tell what is right.
“Fourth, which should we choose, mutual learning among civilizations or arrogance and prejudice? A few days ago, China successfully hosted the Conference on Dialogue of Asian Civilizations. We believe that human civilizations are and should be colorful, equal, inclusive and willing to learn from each other. Not a single civilization should be worshiped or belittled. There are scars and tragedies in the history of human civilization which do not go away, to name only a few, the enslavement of Africans, the expulsion of native American Indians, the colonization in Asia, Africa and Latin America, and the killing of Jewish people. Unfortunately, some people recently pick up the decadent idea of “clash of civilizations”. As racist and narrow-minded as it is, this is not right. How can we tolerate such a regress of history?” [Emphasis Original]
Pretty powerful gouging of the eyes, IMO. And what could possibly be said in defense to justify the Outlaw US Empire’s actions? Yes, the Truth is very powerful. The Minister’s words regarding Taiwan were made such that there can be no mistaking China’s policy and that no external action to change that policy will ever be allowed. As for the South China Sea, the destabilizing force isn’t from the region but resides across the ocean and would facilitate stability by staying away.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 4 2019 17:05 utc | 122

@123 arioch.. thanks.. spelling error on my part.. didn’t know the connection to the laurel plant.. interesting!

Posted by: james | Jun 4 2019 17:15 utc | 124

psychohistorian says:
lets go to the beach
we’re going tomorrow, see ya.

Posted by: john | Jun 4 2019 17:25 utc | 126

I don’t understand the uproar about the Crooke essay. The central theme I saw was this:

That is to say, Trump wants Russia’s acquiescence to the Greater Israel project, and its active help in containing reaction.

In my opinion there is no ‘upside’ for Russia in playing along with this, and almost unlimited ‘downside’. If Crooke provided evidence Russia is considering doing this then I missed seeing it. Russians saying things designed not to inflame the Orange POTUS isn’t the same thing as “support” for his End-Timer initiatives, IMO.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 4 2019 17:55 utc | 128

….we used to call Russian parliament “rabid printer” you won’t believe….

Posted by: Arioch | Jun 4 2019 18:31 utc | 130

As psychohistorian knows, I live at the beach, and we’re being graced with a second fogless day I a row, although it remains cool–only low 60s.
Building on the Big Picture content of 54 & 122, curiosity prompted me to enter Conference on Dialogue of Asian Civilizations as a search term in Google to see what it produced and whether my hypothesis that it would contain very few Western based publications would be proven correct. Alas, I was correct, and those outlets put a negative spin on the event opposite of its announced goal. Here’s the English transcript of the presser held prior to the event. The momentum for such a conference has built since it was first forwarded at Shanghai in 2014, so it was no off-the-cuff gig, although its timing to follow the BRI Forum in Beijing to make the trip to China more productive was deliberate. What follows was the announced theme:
“First, the theme is clear. The theme of the conference is ‘Exchanges and Mutual Learning among Asian Civilizations and a Community with a Shared Future’, which reflects important philosophies articulated by Chinese President Xi Jinping. These include exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations, the establishment of an Asian community with a shared future and building of a shared future for mankind. The conference not only reflects the general hopes and wishes from Asian countries but also those of the entire world. The activities of the conference are designed and developed around this theme.” [My Emphasis]
After reading the transcript, the question begged is Why wasn’t such a conference initiated by a Western nation? Note that the idea was formed prior to Trump and his Trade War and that it was publicly articulated. I think it’s safe to say that no Western nation proposed an equivalent because their geopolitical lens still sees relations in terms of dominance and subordination, not cooperation amongst equals as is divulged in the presser. I also think it fair to say that most of the people residing in the West aren’t aware such a conference even occurred despite its obvious importance. Perhaps readers have seen the threads of the overture being made to humanity by China and Russia though their BRI/EAEU conception. They’re present within Xi’s articulation of BRI and Putin’s of EAEU; they’re within the four points of the Chinese Defense Minister’s speech; and they’re within the theme of the Conference on Dialogue of Asian Civilizations. AND they’re also within the UN Charter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 4 2019 19:14 utc | 132

@ karlof 132
Why wasn’t such a conference initiated by a Western nation?
Certainly the US isn’t going to get into a conference dialoque, and wouldn’t allow other western nations to do so, b/c that would imply international equality, which is not conducive to the continuance of US world hegemony. US “diplomacy” consists mainly of threats (Pompeo is now doing what H.Clinton did, daily insults & threats to other countries) and sanctions if other countries don’t do what they’re told.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 4 2019 19:47 utc | 134

Re the Crooke article. Crooke needs to look up some of the videos in which Putin is asked why he refers to the US as partners. He always explains along the lines that Russia and US must keep talking on various issues as the option to that is war.
Trump admin and the middle east and Iran. Although for sometime I have believed Trump’s goals were both energy dominance and Israel, both being brought to fruition with the downfall of Iran (controling China’s oil supply), only one writer – Pepe Escobar – has voiced this. Crooke came close some time back but has drifted away from this angle.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jun 4 2019 20:48 utc | 136

@137 OK so Justin calls it genocide. No doubt he also blames colonialism, the patriarchy, residential schools, cultural breakdown, prostitution, drugs and alcohol etc. Anything new?

Posted by: dh | Jun 4 2019 21:49 utc | 138

@ karlof1 | Jun 4, 2019 4:04:58 PM #135
At first glance I’s say Taiwan is more “united” than Iran. According to the wiki, Iran is 61% Persians and the remainder is an interesting brew of “others”. I read a lot about the Kurdish problem in Iran.
Taiwan has always belonged to China? According to the ubiquitous wiki the rule began about 1683 and never really amounted to much. The Japanese took over in 1895 and ruled the place with iron fist cruelty until the end of WW2. China regained control for a brief while from 1945 to 1949 at which time the corrupt government of Chiang Kai-shek fled to Formosa after losing in the civil war. From then till now Taiwan has been a free-standing nation, though progressively sold out by the rest of the world so as to better suck up to Mainland China.
Personally, I don’t give a hoot what the UN or the “majority of nations” say about the situation. Taiwan is a nation until either they decide otherwise or they’re successfully invaded by China. If war comes I’ll be rooting for the little guy. What happened after the recovery of Hong Kong demonstrates the value of China’s promises, IMO. Supposing Russia successfully bribes or intimidates a “majority” of the rest of the world, are they entitled to get Finland back? I don’t think so.

A very large minority want to reunify now, and they have a political party that articulates that policy.

I wasn’t able to find that large minority you spoke of, but instead found a small party equivalent to US ‘libertarians’. I’ll grant that a subversive minority represents a huge security problem for Taiwan.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 4 2019 22:08 utc | 140

@ d | Jun 4, 2019 6:04:30 PM #139

The Chinese people have not forgotten.

Nor should they! I know only a little about that unending horror story, and imagine that if I did learn more I’d be even more horrified.
The problem as I see it is the prospect of a “rebound” effect. A brutalized people somehow break away from their oppressors, and then go on to become monsters in their own right. The creation and conduct of the apartheid Jewish state is a prime example. They learned well the lessons taught by both the Brits and the Nazis, and have worked hard to improve on techniques for even slicker murders and thefts and intimidation.
Just because China underwent a century or more of hell doesn’t entitle them to mimic the Zionists. If anyone cares to defend their current activities in the far-west provinces I’ll watching the ducking and weaving that’ll be required. They’ve not been saintly figures in Tibet, either.
Chinese behavior regarding the “9-dash” line of the China Sea has been incredibly bad. It’s simply brute-force grab of territory. For people who chant that the Chinese have no Imperial ambitions, that ought to be a problem.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 4 2019 22:25 utc | 142

@ Zachary Smith who wrote
”
Besides all that, there was the prospect of enlisting the Chinese as major counter to the USSR.
”
Your discussion with Don Bacon is interesting and educational for many I am sure.
Let me add my perspective which is that the opening to China by puppet Nixon was an early attempt to instantiate (private finance) empire in China…..and it almost worked as you can read over on the Tiananmen thread.
But empire has, so far, been unable to create the seed of private finance securely within China while its operating mode outside of China is failing from overuse.
jump/shift
What a stupid way to have an intelligent discussion about the human social contracts around the world. On one side you have China who have spent the last 70 years in reformation of their society and on the other hand you have the painting itself into a corner, God of Mammon, top down and been this way for centuries and you just need more faith society. But the contrast is never discussed in a cultural anthropological manner where the distinctions can be seen clearly….wonder why that is?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5 2019 1:51 utc | 144

@ ZS 143
Perhaps you missed it, but there was a revolution in China and a new government was instituted, a real government in Beijing not like the fake one in Taipei.
That Taipei government for awhile had a legislature comprised of emigre representatives from China provinces. Of course that can’t be done any longer. But you still want to recognize Taipei as a national capital of—
>China? No, that’s silly, that “Republic of China (ROC).” . . .okay we’ll go with..
>Taiwan? No, the government in Taipei has stuck with the ROC fanatasy and has never declared its independence. Never declared! And yet you want to recognize something that they haven’t even declared.
In fact if Taipei/Taiwan ever declared their independence there would instantly be a state of war. Taiwan knows it and China knows it, which is one reason it hasn’t been done.
So your fantasy of Taiwan as a country has zero basis even by the people who live there. Drop it. Revolution in the British colonies, new government called the USA. Revolution in China, new government is the PRC. Those are facts. It’s also a fact that the UK has no claims on the US government, and ROC has no valid claims on the PRC. . . . Losers. It doesn’t matter what organizations they belonged to, it’s over. The UK and the ROC are losers in that regard. Get over it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2019 3:52 utc | 146

@ karlof
Asian practice is as different from Western practice as night differs from day when it comes to cultural awareness and respect of differences.
Or why they never became like us, as the US hoped.
cultural differences — east vs. west — here
Blue –> Westerner and Red –> Asian.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 5 2019 4:13 utc | 148

@145 circe… i agree with you.. if the folks there have any clue, what you say is very true!

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2019 5:56 utc | 150

It is interesting reading Sinophobe comments. It is so cute how they seem to think nobody else can tell that they have a disorder. You get comments like “They’ve not been saintly figures in Tibet…” which indicate that the individuals in question have no firsthand knowledge to work from (they’ve not traveled very much) and they are relying upon the same gang that said Iraq had WMDs to inform their opinions about issue they are otherwise ignorant of.
Honestly, folks, if what you know about issues in the world comes from the BBC or the New York Langley Times and the media choruses that surround them then you really need to come to grips with the reality that what you know about the world is less than nothing. In other words, what you think you know for sure about the world is actually a barrier to your understanding of and coping with reality. For instance, people who know literally nothing about China will be better informed about China than anyone who informs their opinion about China from corporate mass McMedia.
In fact the Chinese have been saintly figures in Tibet. The British and Americans have genocided indigenous populations everywhere they have gone, but the Chinese have not. Westerners who believe that the Chinese have, or intend to at some point, committed genocide are just projecting their own violently psychotic tendencies onto others who do not share those tendencies.
Stop assuming that your society’s cultural cancer is normal, folks, and stop projecting it onto healthy people. They are not like you, and for humanity’s sake that is a good thing.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2019 11:26 utc | 152

As for the discussion of Taiwan and weird attempts to compare it with Iran, it is important to keep in mind that Taiwanese people ARE Chinese. Iran’s opponents are peoples who are ethnically, culturally, and linguistically distinct from themselves. Iran has a distinct national history that goes back many centuries. Taiwan is just an island that has been dominated by a number of foreign aggressors; first the British, then the Japanese, and now the Americans; but through all of that the island has remained predominantly Chinese. If there were war between Taiwan and the mainland then it would be Chinese vs Chinese, and neither side wants that.
Furthermore, if China wanted to overrun Taiwan militarily they could do so in a matter of a few days since Taiwan has little strategic depth. To complicate that even more, Taiwanese people, youth in particular, are increasingly seeing through the western media-manufactured chimera of “Freedom™” and don’t really see it as something worth fighting for. Decades ago they wanted to become like they imagined America to be from watching TV shows like Dallas and Baywatch, but the heady days of Kennedy and Apollo are now long gone and it is becoming painfully obvious that they will never return. The noble superhero they used to worship has degenerated into a mean, violent, petty ignoramus.
Meanwhile mainland China has picked themselves up after a century of capitalist imperialism’s boot on their face and are building a respectable society rooted in Chinese culture… a culture that the residents of Taiwan share. The Chinese on Taiwan can look at America, which cannot maintain infrastructure built in the previous century much less build anything new, then turn around and look at China that is undergoing an almost magical transformation in the span of a few short years. Looking back at America the Taiwan Chinese see a place where the students they send to presumably learn from the best are assaulted and murdered by criminals, and are discriminated against by loud and ignorant primitives. Turning again to look at China they see a place with super modern cities where those kids can walk about at any hour of the night without fear of being even slightly inconvenienced.
From where Taiwan sits it is easy for them to see that the United States is in steep decline, and there is no force in American society capable of turning that decline around. They can also see that mainland China is ascendant and is heading in a direction that they like. While China of a half century ago was something that the Taiwan Chinese were ashamed to be associated with and that they would disavow any connection to, China today makes them increasingly proud to be Chinese. If you mistakenly referred to someone from Taiwan as “Chinese” a quarter century ago they would set you straight. Today they don’t mind that “error” so much. This is an ongoing process and it is obvious where it will eventually lead, such as high speed rail tunnels under the Taiwan Straight tying the island to the mainland and customs-free travel between the mainland and the island.
These factors have resulted in the failure of Taiwan’s efforts to eliminate military conscription and transition to a professional volunteer military. Fighting China is simply not something that young Taiwan Chinese see as worthwhile. Getting kids in Taiwan to commit their lives to defending their place in a dying empire is a tough sell.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2019 14:14 utc | 154

@154 British domination? The Dutch East India Company were ahead of the game in Taiwan. They even named it after an aboriginal tribe the Tayouan.

Posted by: dh | Jun 5 2019 15:31 utc | 156

‘NYT’ coverage of Trump peace plan news quotes 5 pro-Israel voices, 0 Palestinians
It’s my guess the rabid supporters of the apartheid Jewish state are unhappy because the ratio wasn’t at least 10 to 0.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 5 2019 15:59 utc | 158

karlof1 @159
I have a number of acquaintances and even some good friends (yes, even one such as myself can have friends!) in Taiwan, but even the most anticommunist among them have nothing good to say about the KMT. Some of the stories they told about what happened on Taiwan under KMT dictatorship are decidedly unpleasant. Though I count as an academic, I am confident that I would have preferred mainland China during the Cultural Revolution than Taiwan. Referring to Chaing Kai-shek and his crew as gangsters sounds quite appropriate.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 5 2019 18:17 utc | 160

Some are finally catching on to what I’ve been saying for several weeks: Are Establishment Democrats Protecting Trump?
However, AFAIK no one has yet offered an answer as to WHY establishment Democrats might be showing leniency toward Trump. Establishment Democrats say it would be a political mistake to impeach and/or cite the low chance for a conviction in the Senate. IMO these are excuses.
As I’ve written here many times, IMO the 2016 election was a set-up to elect an MAGA nationalist to meet the challenge from Russia and China. I also believe that the new McCarthyism was part of the plan as was setting up Wikileaks/Assange and Michael Flynn.
Memory-holed: Trump helped Pelosi to win Speaker of the House when he invited her and Schumer to talk with him in the oval office about his plans for a wall.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
It’s a big club … and YOU aint in it.

– George Carlin

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 5 2019 21:20 utc | 162

@ Zachary Smith who wrote
”
So let me guess – reports of the treatment of the Uyghurs is a total fabrication by the evil West.
”
How long have you been at the MoA bar? Do you read the links about how China has as I recall 350+ registered religions. It is also my understanding that China is basically saying to all those religions that you are fine as long as you support the Party….in other words……..a totally secular government….and that is what the Uyghurs are being told in these facilities…..and yes, the West is going to lie through their teeth about the details.
The Western monotheistic faith breathers are not going to like going back to the original intention of separation of church and state that the US had but when the motto got changed to In God We Trust to fight the dirty commies in the early 1950’s it became a slippery slope of infestation.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 6 2019 5:09 utc | 164

Follow up to my comment @162
Pelosi to Dem Leaders:

“I don’t want to see him impeached, I want to see him in prison.”

LOL. Sure she does./sarc
Here’s the logic:

1) Dems refrain from impeaching Trump
2) * the magic happens *
3) Trump goes to jail.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jun 6 2019 12:54 utc | 166

@ 166 jackrabbit… pelosi is another reason the dems are going nowhere fast… does she want to see bush 2 / cheney / rumsfield in jail for the war on iraq and countless people who lost their lives for it? of course not… her and obama wanted to move on and weren’t interested in accountability..
the only answer is a non violent colour revolution in the usa where the people demand something other then republican and democrat parties… otherwise it is just biz as usual..
@167 peter au… last line – good!

Posted by: james | Jun 6 2019 17:13 utc | 168