Iran To Exceed Some Nuclear Deal Limits - EU Under Pressure To Fulfill Its Commitments
The conflict U.S. President Donald Trump ignited by leaving the nuclear deal with Iran is escalating at multiple fronts. U.S. sanctions on Iranian im- and exports are devastating its economy. A new tanker war is brewing. Iran will soon exceed limits set under the nuclear agreement. While this is not a legal breach of the deal, the Trump administration will loudly denounce it as such. Iran is also pushing European countries to fulfill their commitment as signatories of the nuclear deal. It today announced what steps it might take should the EU be unwilling to do its part.
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The deal, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action or JCPOA, acknowledged Iran's right to enrich uranium for nuclear fuel and to produce heavy water, a moderator needed for certain types of nuclear reactors. The deal limits the amounts of these products Iran is allowed to stockpile.
As Iran wanted to continue the production it was clear that the stockpiles for both products would grow above the limit. It was therefore agreed that Iran would export everything above the set limits as well as all newly produced enriched Uranium and heavy water.
Part of Iran's stockpile of heavy water, which is also used in other industrial processes, was sold to the United States. Additionally produced heavy water was regularly either sold or sent to Oman to be stockpiled there until the conversion of Iran's nuclear reactor in Arak, which will use that heavy water, is completed.
The excess enriched uranium was exported to Russia. In exchange Iran received natural Uranium for future enrichment.
When the Trump administration left the nuclear agreement a year ago it renewed sanctions on Iran's nuclear program. But it also issued waivers for the export of heavy water and enriched uranium. Iran continued to sell these products or to stockpile them outside of the country.
On May 3 2019 the State Department announced that it would no longer issue these waivers:
[A]ny involvement in transferring enriched uranium out of Iran in exchange for natural uranium will now be exposed to sanctions. The United States has been clear that Iran must stop all proliferation-sensitive activities, including uranium enrichment, and we will not accept actions that support the continuation of such enrichment.We will also no longer permit the storage for Iran of heavy water it has produced in excess of current limits; any such heavy water must not be made available to Iran in any fashion.
This step by the Trump administration was obviously designed to bring Iran into breach of the nuclear agreement.
As Iran could no longer export the products it had to decide to either stop producing them or to breach the stockpile limit. The nuclear deal (JCPOA) acknowledges that Iran has the explicit right to enrich. Moreover it was only after the Obama administration conceded that Iran had such a natural right, that the JCPOA negotiations began. It was that concession, not sanctions, that brought Iran to the negotiation table.
Iran is therefore not willing to give up enrichment. It is its natural right under the non-proliferation treaty and is at the core of JCPOA. Nor is Iran willing to give up its production of heavy water. It will need large amounts to bring the Arak reactor online and has to produce those in advance.
The utterly foreseeable consequence of the State Department decision was thereby that Iran would breach both limits the JCPOA set for those stockpiles.
Despite that U.S. journalists speak of an Iranian "threat" to exceed those limits. 'Western' reporting fails to point this out that the illegal U.S. sanction regime caused the breach.
Iran, which is under strong economic pressure and wants the conflict resolved as soon as possible, tried to hasten that moment. It increased the enriched uranium production rate and today announced that the stockpile limit for enriched uranium will be reached in ten days:
The spokesman for the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran says the country will surpass the uranium stockpile limit set under the nuclear deal from June 27."Today the countdown to pass the 300 kilograms reserve of enriched uranium has started and in 10 days time we will pass this limit," Behrouz Kamalvandi told reporters at the Arak Heavy Water Reactor Facility Monday.
"This is based on the Articles 26 and 36 of the (nuclear deal), and will be reversed once other parties live up to their commitments," he added.
Article 26 of the JCPOA (pdf) reserves the right for Iran to "cease performing its commitments" should other parties of the agreement re-introduce sanctions. Article 36 is part of the Dispute Resolution Mechanism in the agreement that gives Iran a similar right.
Iran is not in breach of the nuclear agreement by temporarily exceeding these technical limits. But we can expect that the Trump administration will claim exactly that. It has already done so over other issues even as it is the one party that has no legal standing to do so.
Iran also announced that it may soon take additional steps, like enriching at higher levels, should the European signatories of the nuclear deal not be willing to organize unfettered trade with Iran. The European countries are currently under threat of U.S. sanction should they do so, but certainly have the means to counter those. Iran pushes them to finally do it:
Tehran has said it may go even further by July 8 unless remaining partners to the deal -- Britain, China, France, Germany and Russia -- help it circumvent US sanctions and especially enable it to sell its oil.Kamalvandi said there is still time for European countries to save the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), as the nuclear deal is officially known.
"Iran's reserves are every day increasing at a more rapid rate. And if it is important for them (Europe) to safeguard the accord, they should make their best efforts... As soon as they carry out their commitments, things will naturally go back to their original state."
It is now on the Europeans to acts. If they do not fulfill their commitments under the JCPOA, Iran will step by step go back to do what it did before that agreement was signed.
It has no other choice. The U.S. sanctioned Iranian oil exports. While it at first allowed for waivers to certain countries it has now revoked them. It also sanctions Iran's iron, steel, aluminum and copper exports. Ten days ago it sanction the export of petrochemical products from Iran. Additional sanctions were placed on financial transactions with Iran and on its airlines. Imports into Iran also become more and more difficult as many companies fear that they will be hit by U.S. sanctions should they sell their products to companies in Iran.
It is on the European governments to shield their companies from any threat of U.S. sanctions. This could easily be done by a counter threat to U.S. companies.
The U.S. buys more goods from Europe than it sells to Europe. But it sells many more services to Europe than Europe sells to the United States. Google and Facebook make tens of billions per year by selling advertisement space to European entities. The EU could easily block that business. This would also help to create European alternatives to those monopolies. Large U.S. consulting businesses and banks make very profitable deals with European companies. Are we sure they are following all EU regulations? Maybe its time to take a more diligent look at them.
The EU is a large market than the U.S. It certainly has ways and means to counter any U.S. threat. As a signatory of the JCPOA it is up to the EU to hold up that agreement. It just needs the will to do that.
Posted by b on June 17, 2019 at 17:47 UTC | Permalink
next page »“During a speech last August in front of the Dimona nuclear reactor in the Negev Desert, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu threatened to use nuclear weapons to “wipe out” Israel’s enemies. More recently, Netanyahu and his allies in the U.S. accused Iran of seeking to develop nuclear weapons, despite the fact that intelligence agencies of both the U.S. and Israel have long recognized that Iran has no such program.”
Need I say more. Case closed.
Posted by: Uncle Jon | Jun 17 2019 18:13 utc | 2
Posted by: Never Mind the Bollocks | Jun 17 2019 18:15 utc | 3
Angela and Emanuelle and EU are going to suddenly and jointly grow a spine? Is that even possible?
Posted by: casey | Jun 17 2019 18:19 utc | 4
thanks b.. you lay it out well and show why the usa is the guilty party here too... but as harry @1 says - the problem has to do with banking and a financial system that is beholden to the usa/us$... until this changes, it is unlikely europe will change its stripes... there is not a chance the uk will..they are slavishly devoted to all things us-israel..
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 18:24 utc | 5
Iran does not want nukes. Over a hundred Iranian statements, consistently over decades, denouncing nukes as inhuman and ineffective here.
"We do not believe in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grain of humanity...I think the politicians who are after atomic bombs or are testing them, making them -- politically they are backward, [mentally] retarded." Ahmadinejad
Posted by: Imagine | Jun 17 2019 18:32 utc | 6
Trump Tweeted 12:45 PM
“Iran to defy Uranium Stockpile Limits”
Comments mostly mocking Trump, indicate that Trump caused the problem by revoking the "deal".
Posted by: fastfreddy | Jun 17 2019 18:49 utc | 7
Me, I thought that the Iranian announcement that it's going to go beyond the limits agreed was provocative. Why did they do it? It's not necessary for them. So, is there a necessity we don't know about, or are they pushing the Americans a bit? Pushing the Americans is a dangerous game. Are they desperate?
I was in Iran a month ago. I didn't think they were desperate. But the collapse of the riyal was having an effect. I'm not quite sure what's pushing this risky announcement.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 19:04 utc | 8
I continue to believe that history will show that we are in WWIII already. The Iran gambit fits within a bigger ME strategy that sits aside the EU/NATO one.
And then there is the private banking cartel part of the war. This part effects all of the gambits and strategies and its do or die in their eyes.
The steamroller of China/Russia and aligned continues apace.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 17 2019 19:06 utc | 9
Seems I need to relearn a few things. The current enrichment regime goes to 3% except for a small amount that's enriched to 20% to derive medical isotopes. To produce a nuclear weapon, 80-85% enrichment's required which means building a very large number of new centrifuge cascades. Plus, you don't just leap from 3% to 85%; it takes quite some time, but I can't recall the number of centrifuges or the time required. You can bet the old debunked to death warning "Iran's only a month away from making a bomb" will resurface with a vengeance.
As b, myself, and many others have noted, the Outlaw US Empire is the one in violation of everything as usual but isn't being called out for it thanks to its command of BigLie Media. As I reported in the open thread, Putin's continuing remarks call out illegal actions and continual bullying by the Outlaw US Empire, and I imagine the joint consensus statements from the SCO and CICA forums will contain similar language as has recently become commonplace. The EU continues to act like its helpless. It doesn't even do the bare minimum by calling out the Empire for its gross illegal behavior. I don't understand why, if indeed it did, Russia ceased its importation of Iranian nuclear material. The Arak plant is being developed with Chinese financing and engineering help.
Spicing the situation further is Iran's reported busting of another CIA spy ring: "Iran has dismantled a CIA-run 'large US cyber-espionage' network."
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 17 2019 19:10 utc | 10
re Karlof1. I think everyone understands that Iranian enrichment is not actually very great. The question is why Iran put it in a way that was likely to provoke a reaction.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 19:22 utc | 11
People conflate scary "enrichment" (up to 19.75%), required for cancer patients, with building "highly enriched uranium" (90% needed for bomb grade).
Even Obama said the same.
Similarly, the media intentionally conflates "nuclear weapons program" with "nuclear program" [for energy], lying with a half-truth, and counting on Americans to be dumb enough not to tell the difference.
Heavy water, a coolant, is also conflated with tritium (for H-bombs).
This crap has been going on for decades.
Posted by: Imagine | Jun 17 2019 19:24 utc | 12
Do you really think that the EU will start a trade war with the US over Iran? Now that economic crisis is near? Nope, it is not going to happen. Too many naive people.
Posted by: Passer by | Jun 17 2019 19:24 utc | 13
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17, 2019 3:34:05 PM | 12
It is because the US knows with whom they are dealing with. Merkel "i support the Iraq war", Macron the cuck, Scandinavian/Eastern European "please USA, protect me from Russia", UK "i'm your biggest Poodle, don't you like it?" and Italy "oh my god, our economy will implode at any moment".
The EU, generally speaking, in a political way, is a joke.
Posted by: Passer by | Jun 17 2019 19:39 utc | 15
Sorry, I didn't know how to delete a "Your comment has been posted"
re 11 passer by
Iran won't start
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 19:47 utc | 16
JPOST:U.N. OFFICIALS: U.S. PLANNING A 'TACTICAL ASSAULT' IN IRAN
Diplomatic sources at the UN headquarters in New York revealed to Maariv that they are assessing the United States' plans to carry out a tactical assault on Iran in response to the tanker attack in the Persian Gulf on Thursday.According to the officials, since Friday, the White House has been holding incessant discussions involving senior military commanders, Pentagon representatives and advisers to President Donald Trump.
The military action under consideration would be an aerial bombardment of an Iranian facility linked to its nuclear program, the officials further claimed.
"The bombing will be massive but will be limited to a specific target," said a Western diplomat.
Posted by: Zack | Jun 17 2019 19:49 utc | 17
"The EU, generally speaking, in a political way, is a joke."
Yeah, Americans frequently think that. They can't cope with Europe being independent.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 19:57 utc | 19
Laguerre - 17
Well, EU is a joke when it comes to international relations. They're great when it comes to bully smaller nations, just like the US does, but they're abysmal when it comes to defend their own population, their own economy, and to deal with the USA. Were they not a joke, Europe would actually be either an independant entity dealing equally with Russia and America, a middle ground, or would even have sought a strategic alliance with Moscow to counter the American growing lunacy - and in an effort to tame the bear so that it wouldn't see Europe as a potential antagonist or at least an ally of its antagonist. Instead, like the good vassal states of the Warsaw pact of old, of the Delian League of old, they just sanctioned like their masters ordered, European media are fully on-board with the US lunacies about Russia, China and Syria internationally, and with US lunacies - and de facto cultural imperialism - when it comes to social issues.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jun 17 2019 20:19 utc | 20
Well, as a European i would be more than happy for the EU to grow a pair, but expecting this? Hell no.
The EU is a corrupted paper tiger; Weak politicians of weak nation states only bringing together their individual impotence. And by now, i guess Iran has no illusions on this too.
Only when the EU implodes, and the EU nation states rebuild themselves and overcome their internal crisis, and then work together to form a truly democratic allaiance based on shared interests (opposed to a burocratic monster that only serves itself).. Then we have a chance of a political Europe that can at least somewhat fullfill the delusional ambitions of the current EU.
But here and now in this galaxy? Not gonna happen.
Some half assed steps will be taken, but nothing that actually makes a significant difference. So the EU can say, "we tried" and also blame Iran afterwards will falling in line with Donald.
And then like before the deal, the whole world including Russia minus North Korea, Venezuela Syria and Iraq and somewhat China will suck up to the US.
irans Supreme leader just therefore said that Iran should never again trust any country as an ally, and only work with countrys temeporary based on shared interest, accoring to Elijah J Magnier. So Iran stands alone, with the other Countrys daring to defy the US supremacy.
Will be hard next 5 years.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Jun 17 2019 20:20 utc | 21
It indeed would be possible to reestablish market relations with Iran without the necessity to involve any European bank. The payment transactions could be funneled via state-run entities. If necessary even the EZB. Do not let the poodels bullshitting you. As said here the whole bunch does not have spines. Furthermore, they lack the imagination of the consequences of a war against Iran which could easily grew to something monstrous.
Posted by: Pnyx | Jun 17 2019 20:30 utc | 22
re clueless joe 18
"Well, EU is a joke when it comes to international relations. They're great when it comes to bully smaller nations, just like the US does, but they're abysmal when it comes to defend their own population"
How does that work, when they've done a lot to defend Ireland against British attacks? The US will not be very happy if the Irish are put under a bus.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 20:30 utc | 23
reply to
" The military action under consideration would be an aerial bombardment of an Iranian facility linked to its nuclear program, the officials further claimed.
"The bombing will be massive but will be limited to a specific target," said a Western diplomat."
Posted by: Zack | Jun 17, 2019 3:49:59 PM | 15
I read somewhere that Iran bought S-300's a while ago and that they were heavily customized. As Russia has been involved with Iran my guess is Iran has an S-400 equivalent defensive capability. And as Iran now has a heads up regarding a pending US attack, we may finally see how well US weapons/planes perform against S-400s as well as Iran's formidable missiles.
We may also see how well Israel's Iron Dome does against an assault by both Hamas and Hezbollah. Trump is going down a dark road if he attacks Iran.
Posted by: frances | Jun 17 2019 20:48 utc | 24
"Well, as a European i would be more than happy for the EU to grow a pair, but expecting this?
The EU is a corrupted paper tiger;
Only when the EU implodes, and the EU nation states rebuild themselves and overcome their internal crisis, and then work together to form a truly democratic alliance based on shared interests "
Sounds like you like the EU, but not the specifics. A very common problem. i would say, find the solution, not go for exit, which you don't believe in anyway.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17 2019 20:54 utc | 25
frances @22--
Here's the Anna News report about Iran's air defense capabilities I posted last week. It's in Russian but is easily machine translated. Where Iran's strength lies is in its retaliation ability combined with target vulnerabilities, which we've been over and back about in detail. Last week after the tanker attacks, CENTCOM issued a statement saying the Outlaw US Empire doesn't seek war with Iran, which I also posted here.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 17 2019 20:59 utc | 26
Personally I think it’s high time the USA got a dam good slapping ! Not just for Iran but the whole can of worms over the last, how many years?
Delusional grandeur !
The ‘vail’ has fallen away now ! No pretence of moral high ground ! Just blatant nationalistic fascism,
But pride comes before a fall. If I know the power of nature these bozos are just ripe for self-distruction!
Posted by: Mark2 | Jun 17 2019 21:11 utc | 27
Taunting Trump to start the war of all wars? Trump, Israel, Iran will go down in flames, in that order.
Iran may be in possession of a US mine, and ready to reveal the pics at strategically the right moment.
I hope Iran has already started to enrich for deterrence.
Posted by: bjd | Jun 17 2019 21:20 utc | 28
Yeah, Americans frequently think that. They can't cope with Europe being independent.
Posted by: Laguerre | Jun 17, 2019 3:57:47 PM | 17
Well, make that happen then. I have been waiting for a long time.
Btw it is not only that they think like that, they don't sit on their hands, they work actively to make that EU dependence happen.
Posted by: Zack | Jun 17, 2019 3:49:59 PM | 15
Its psychological war. Posturing. What happens if Iran fires back and a salvo of ballistic/cruise missiles destroy a US base in the Middle East? Or the Taliban gets manpads? US bases in Iraq under fire by shia millitias just like in 2007? EFP IEDs work great against US armored vehicles..
The US military consistently resisted the push for war against Iran. I don't believe a war with Iran will happen. Especially not now, with the already shaky global economy and Brexit ongoing.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPr. | Jun 17, 2019 4:20:31 PM | 19
"So Iran stands alone, with the other Countrys daring to defy the US supremacy.
Will be hard next 5 years."
Depends on the severity of the economic crisis coming. The US was very nice and quiet in 2008-2009 right after the financial crisis. It even wanted a reset in relations with Russia.
When the US or the EU have it bad, they become very very nice. Like kittens. Look at how bankrupt Italy is seeking better trade relations with Russia and China.
So i expect a decrease in geopolitical tensions in the next several years as the crisis bites and countries are forced to concentrate on internal problems. I also think there will be too much debt around and that will force decrease in military budgets as well.
If the crisis is big, the trade war against China and the EU sanctions against Russia will end. More EU countries will join OBOR.
So it all depends on the severity of the crisis and who will be hit the most.
Posted by: Passer by | Jun 17 2019 21:34 utc | 29
Good points by Clueless Joe and DBEP-- #18 and 19.
And underlines just how dangerous it's going to be going forward. For Iran to have a shot at changing the current dynamic, it has to generate a situation that is more economically threatening than the threats that the US has made to isolate Iran. Active hostilities, with the first shots preferably fired by the US, setting the stage for Iranian action significantly reducing the amount of energy exported from the region and generating a global economic crisis may be required. That's why, as I have said repeatedly, it's a very risky strategy. But as I have also asked, what are the alternatives?
Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Jun 17 2019 21:40 utc | 30
The EU won't start a trade war with the US mainly for two reasons:
1) its economy is in a much more fragile state, so it wouldn't be able to withstand a Fabian war; as a peripheral region, its survival depens on never fully taking one side between the superpowers (USA vs China-Russia);
2) NATO.
There's also an ideological reason: since the post-war, the Western Europeans developed an ideology called Atlanticism, which states that the USA is a continuation of the European empire/civilization, therefore the continuation of Western Civilization itself. Therefore, the USA must be protected as if it was Europe, even if just culturally.
Indeed, this is a big problem the European far-right will have to face: until now, they are using a narrative of a "sovereign and pure" Europe ("Europe for Europeans"). When the time comes and they are in power, they will have to face the reality Europe now is just an American pet: will they budge and, at the end of the day, strenghten the USA's position in the peninsula, or will they go all in and seal its fate?
psychohistorian | Jun 17, 2019 3:06:00 PM | 8:
Or WW4. WW3 was the first Cold War against the Soviets, while this War of Terror / Cold War 2.0 would be WW4.
Posted by: Ian | Jun 17 2019 21:49 utc | 32
JPOST:U.N. OFFICIALS: U.S. PLANNING A 'TACTICAL ASSAULT' IN IRAN
Diplomatic sources at the UN headquarters in New York revealed to Maariv that they are assessing the United States' plans to carry out a tactical assault on Iran in response to the tanker attack in the Persian Gulf on Thursday.
...
Posted by: Zack | Jun 17, 2019 3:49:59 PM | 15
Trust the "Israelis" to publish meaningless "He said - She said" claptrap about Iran.
J-Post's gullible audience is way too dumb to realise that a US announcement of US unilateral military action, delivered from the steps of the UN, does not mean that the idiocy is condoned or endorsed by the UN Security Council.
Apart from anything else, if there was a genuine likelihood that the US was going to bomb Iran, J-Post would be telling "Israelis" to check the food and water in their bunkers and stay the Hell away from Dimona and "Israel's" other nuke sites.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 17 2019 21:50 utc | 33
@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 17, 2019 5:50:49 PM #30
I have a really low opinion of DJT, but even so I can't imagine he's stupid enough to believe he could get away with a "limited" Syria-style cruise missile attack against Iran.
I'll admit I could be wrong about that ...
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 17 2019 22:11 utc | 34
@Hoarsewhisperer #30
"The bombing will be massive but will be limited to a specific target"
Thought this must be from the onion at first.
Crazy times we live in.
Posted by: Zack | Jun 17 2019 22:42 utc | 35
The elites distract us from finding out who they are and what they do by continually throwing up scenarios for us to ponder over. Since 2011 it’s been Syria, then Ukraine, then back to Syria, a rumble with Kim in NK, a sort of mini-scenario with Venezuela then back to Iran. It’s been more or less non-stop. Add in Trump and Brexit and we have more than enough bones to chew on. We focus on that tiresome old sub-entity the military-industrial complex when it is just a glorified cop enforcing the interests of its master – global capital.
We consider countries and regions as separate – the EU and the US for example – but the elites don’t. The Bank of International Settlements – the world’s central banks’ bank is in Basel, Switzerland. The elites are interested in one thing and one thing only and that is getting a return on the $80 trillion in AUM or assets under management. When global GDP is just a little less than that figure that’s a lot of money chasing around looking to earn a buck or two. It requires that every sector of every economy be “in play.” Remember Trumps comment about privatizing the NHS in Britain after Brexit? That’s because it’s all Britain has left of what they call low-hanging fruit. Everything else has been downsized, rightsized or fucksized.
What we need to focus on is not the G7 or G20 but the G30 or Group of Thirty – a group of extremely powerful bankers. Check out the members on their website if you want to know who controls things. It only came to notice because Mario Draghi, the head of the ECB, used to be a member. Some fine individual complained to the EU Ombudsman that the ECB is supposed to supervise the banks, not conspire with them, and Draghi was forced out. Two members are ex-governors of the Bank of China!
The big fish of the G30 – Jacob A Frenkel - is someone probably nobody has ever heard of. A stint at the IMF, then governor of the Bank of Israel (1991-2000), before moving on to head Merril Lynch International and membership of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), the Trilateral Commission and the New York FED – which effectively controls the FED. He even has his grubby little hands in China as a member of the Advisory council of the China Development Bank. China again! Oh, and lastly he is Chairman of J P Morgan International. He is joined there by the scum Tony Blair and the eternally corrupt ex UN chief Kofi Annan, as well as the chairman of China's soverign wealth fund, among many others whose names and careers we should all be familiar with.
Posted by: Lochearn | Jun 17 2019 22:45 utc | 36
Bluntly, main European nations work with US at a tactical level. The EU has no priority on national foreign policy but makes a good place to hide from responsibility. Northern Europe has a tendency to soft power, except france in its previous domains. Some questions from the lefter for Iraq and Libya, with Syria they all turned on Assad when he did not reform. No one in power has spoken out since the 80's, they let US straight in and arranged behind. EU wants Euromed, a border, population, power but as the " Gods of peace" as Juncker describes the outfit he heads. I don't know if the US would as soon see EU fail, but not while it is useful to it, which it is. Its a mess and countries have lost the ability to manage themselves, are reduced to a show.
Laguerre - the Iranian production had a destination before US sanction intervened in civil side. So product of US trampling the framework, expect Iran to just switch off production and go home ? Or make a point? Iaea will have last word I guess.
New photos of mine removal still not quite there as in mine not visible. Looks like the US is teasing the story along or ramping up at own pace.
Posted by: Anon | Jun 17 2019 22:48 utc | 37
https://www.rt.com/news/462085-eu-trump-fire-bolton-iran/
Somebody in the EU is speaking out nad not following the narrative.
Posted by: Uncle Jon | Jun 17 2019 23:05 utc | 38
stimulating comments.. thanks... laguerre and lochearn - always appreciate your imput...
the way it looks to me is that the usa, or the banking cabel via the usa) are saying we write the rules and laws and you have to follow them or we are going to screw you... that is what is happening here... usa financial sanctions with the threat that you will be cut off it you trade or interact with iran... i know this is how it works with gangsters/mafia, but it is nice to know the usa/bank cabel are now more clearly out in the open operating as gangsters/mafia types... so who is going to challenge any of this? not any of the poodles, including all the countries most of the posters here are from.. and the msm is going to continue to frame it the way they are here, with the shrieks from israel-usa-ksa-uk and etc screaming the loudest over what iran is or isn't doing..
here is the daily propaganda dispenser - usa state dept briefing from today.. i am sure they are saying some juicy bullshite stuff in it on iran, but i have yet to read it..
https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-june-17-2019/
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 23:06 utc | 39
Iran might consider going this way to encourage Europe to act:
The JCPOA set a limit of 3.67 percent enrichment and a stockpile limit of around 660 pounds for 15 years with 5,060 older centrifuges. But that will change. Considering the wrongful actions taken by the US to end the international agreement affirmed by the UN Security Council, this is now the Iran position:
Iran's options include:
--increasing the number of centrifuges to 20,000
--surpassing the 3.67 percent limit to 5 percent to provide fuel to the Bushehr power plant, and to twenty percent for the Tehran research reactor
--the possibility of further enrichment percentages
--halting the redesign of the Arak reactor which would eliminate plutonium production
--non-participation in any policing of terror attacks in the Gulf region
It's your move, all options are on the table.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 17 2019 23:06 utc | 40
So Trump said he thinks he knows who did 9-11. Hold your breath, here it comes, he says it wasn't Iraq, but he thinks he knows who. Not saying who yet, but would anyone be surprised if he said Iran. And would anyone be surprised if the majority of Americans believed it, or that Europes American Puppet leaders went along?
For those who believe the EU is independent, they should know America is the founding father of the EU which was planned shortly after WWII, and occupies the EU militarily under the guise of NATO. The Marshall Plan Aid to rebuild Europe came with strings attached.
While the world order under US rule has hardly been perfect, I am one of its biggest critics, its hard to forget the chaos that Europe caused for 300 or more years on all continents through its colonialism, slavery and wars. An independent Europe will not be permitted.
Of course, the Global Elite who once controlled Europe, their offspring with family money and foundations likely controls the US and thus Europe as well, and much of the rest of the world
Posted by: Pft | Jun 17 2019 23:10 utc | 41
let me summarize the usa propaganda briefing for you... matt lee is challenging the logic of the usa withdrawing from the JCPOA while also wanting iran to abide by it... he and many others see the flawed logic that the usa admin is working with here... the usa state dept uses it's briefings to offer the same tired drivel that has defined usa propaganda for what seems like forever, but especially the past 5-10 years with regard to iran...
then another person asks this.. notice how ms ortagus is unable to answer the question!!
"QUESTION: Thank you. Just to follow on Matt’s question, so while there is no new deal between the U.S. and Iran, you ask Iran to abide by the JCPOA even though you left – the U.S. left this deal. When you say you ought to abide to their international commitments, you mean to abide to the JCPOA, which the U.S. left?
MS ORTAGUS: Yeah. We have made it very clear since this President came into office and since the Secretary came here that we will not tolerate a – Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon. Full stop. So any actions that they take to get a nuclear weapon will be countered by a maximum pressure campaign by the United States Government that continues to this day. There should be no relieving of sanctions for their malign and unacceptable behavior."
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 23:14 utc | 42
It doesn't exist a Political EU. Several Countries are with US not with France or Germany. This is the reason because Washington pushed to EU to accept the Eastern European Countries. Because they are more committed to the USA than with the Western Countries.
There are NO possibilities for the EU to sanction the USA.
Posted by: Mark | Jun 17 2019 23:25 utc | 43
What legitimate response does the US have if Iran did mine the tankers ?
I don't think the US has any legitimate ability to attack Iran on its own or on behalf of the countries whose vessels or cargo were affected. It has no legitimate right to attack Iranian nuclear facilities.
So I think that these events will be used to increase sanctions on Iran, to claim jurisdiction of Hormuz passage and increase naval presence , and visibly isolate Iran.
I do not expect any gulf country to declare war on Iran for these events either. The effect will maybe also be to close supply and support to Yemen.
The US might act unilaterally on this occasion though, if not the possibility of open conflict will also increase dramatically. The question being maybe if any country is actually willing to go to war now.
I'm stating the obvious based on an assumption (and only that) that Iran was responsible for the mining ( or is able to be credibly portrayed as being responsible).
Posted by: Anon | Jun 17 2019 23:42 utc | 44
@41 anon... the usa murders countless people in faraway lands for much less.. exceptional nations don't need any legitimate reason..
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 23:45 utc | 45
sit back and watch as the false narrative for making war on iran unfolds...
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 23:50 utc | 46
magneirs article from yesterday - The Gulf is facing a small-scale War Scenario: no obvious solution
Posted by: james | Jun 17 2019 23:55 utc | 47
James, I am trying to be rational in a world that is no longer that. Call me quaint, old fashioned, principled or just naive, it's all the same maybe in terms of what actually gets decided... at least I know my distance and just possibly the world would be a better place if others chose theirs . There are many people who are not aware of, or who would just deny, what you are saying, but who might just question if their country was acting reasonably... if they were to understand the idea of international order or its moral for one moment.
Posted by: Anon | Jun 17 2019 23:59 utc | 48
Click on 1st image to open gallery.
They are now saying that the perpetrators of these attacks left a handprint on the ship. Image appears to show the handprint of a Sasquatch.
Posted by: Zack | Jun 18 2019 0:12 utc | 49
@46 Zack - "left a handprint on the ship"
I'm sorry but when I read this my mind flew back to a scene in a bar in the Rocky Mountains, deep in one winter once, when most people were on mushrooms or whisky or both, and somehow the discussion turned to detective work and the remark was made that the suspect "had left a butt print on the window".
The bar collapsed into laughter so helpless that it took a long while for people to collect themselves.
~~
Now it becomes clear why I've stayed out of this tanker explosion discussion: the surreality is already far over my threshold to remain calm and carry on.
~~
Sorry for off-topic
Posted by: Grieved | Jun 18 2019 0:30 utc | 50
China makes US warplanes but Huawei smartphones are too dangerous?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyX7xLgMUBE
I wonder how China will react if the US/Irael/Saudis attack Iran. The funny thing is if the US is using f-35’s ,some electronics are made by China — maybe oooops.
Posted by: Stever | Jun 18 2019 0:51 utc | 51
reply to
karlof1 | Jun 17, 2019 4:59:00 PM | 24
Thank you.
Posted by: frances | Jun 18 2019 1:08 utc | 52
@45 anon.. i respect you for that too! i would like to be the same, but find it impossible when lunatics are running things..
Posted by: james | Jun 18 2019 1:09 utc | 53
The principal problem, it seems to me, is that while Iran has been looking east, with China, India and Japan playing a crucial role in maintaining the flow of Iran's oil exports, those countries have opted to side with the US. Why? We don't know.
India especially has been close to Iran, with aspirations of a trade entry into central Asia via the Iran port of Chabahar, but India has shut Iran off. Not nice.
It's tough to get Europe on board when Asia has opted out.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 1:25 utc | 54
Would the collapse of the US financial structure, via her debt load, her outrageous military expenses, or her gluttonous need for resources, be the end of the world...or would it be a new beginning?
Yes, such collapse would be decimating for her citizens, of which I am one, that reputed mess of ignorant overly-egotistic fat citizens, but to quote Star Trek, "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....”
Who believes my country will self-correct it's behavior any time soon? Can anyone see some future election turning the US onto a more lofty path of ambassadorial advocacy for global diplomacy, healthy eating habits, and other socialist/environmental/liberal/sentiments?
If we're all honest, no one can. I am for calling in her debts, and let the US fall.
"...or the needs of the one."
Posted by: Summer Diaz | Jun 18 2019 1:33 utc | 55
The world has a problem. That problem is too much cheap credit and central banker capture of the productive capacity of populations of people everywhere. And we're led to believe Iran is the bad guy. Nuh-uh. That bank on the corner of your street - the wizardry of credit issuance for non-productive purposes. That's your weapon of mass destruction there. Leave Iran out of it. At least they have a say in how their central bank does business. Do you?
Posted by: Jezabeel | Jun 18 2019 1:36 utc | 56
OT: Egypt's former President Mohammed Morsi, who became Egypt's first democratically elected leader in 2012, has collapsed in a courtroom and died. Egypt now has a dictator who seeks to extend the presidential term to six years, a move that would allow Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi to stay in office at least until 2024.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 1:38 utc | 57
@Don Bacon #51
"those countries have opted to side with the US. Why? We don't know."
I wouldn't put it quite that way. As Harry suggests in the first comment in this string, their banks and corporations are totally vulnerable to US diktat because of their need for dollars to execute international transactions and secondarily the need of many to do business in or with the US.
None of these countries wants to exit the global economy as the USSR and COMECON did, and none is prepared at the moment to set up the full financial architecture necessary to dethrone the dollar and the treasury bill. So they are forced, very much against their will, to accept the status quo and more-or-less abandon Iran--unless, that is, Iran can generate more economic problems for them by disrupting energy flows than the US can by threatening their banks and companies.
All these countries, especially China, are playing a long game. We are trying to disrupt their long game by getting in all their faces in the short term, Iran being a key example. Time, China correctly infers, is on its side, and it doesn't want to be drawn into confrontation with the US until its strength is greater. But its desire to avoid confrontation in the short term leaves more vulnerable countries like Iran exposed to US predation.
Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Jun 18 2019 1:43 utc | 58
re Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 17, 2019 9:38:47 PM | 54
No one here cares, when Morsi, the first prez, emperor, pharoah wtf he was called, who was actually selected by the populace, went down, just about all of MoA cheered, because their short sighted reasoning was focused on Syria not the biggest Arab population nation whose MB prez had the absolute gall in the desperate last stages before the army rose up, to mutter something about sending some troops to Syria. He never made much concrete moves towards it but needed to try and appease US and Saudi.
I have no doubt Morsi was killed somehow probably poison to make him die in front of the cameras so no one would say he had been smothered or what ever.
If Morsi and the MB had retained control of Egypyt there would be a lot less bad things happening to Arabs throughout the ME, especially Palestine but admitting that would be admitting that cheering his ouster on was a stupid mistake so I doubt anyone round here will fess up to that.
Posted by: Dolores P Candyarse | Jun 18 2019 1:53 utc | 59
New (photoshop) photos of M/T Kokuka Courageous and dastardly Iranians here.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 2:04 utc | 60
@Zachary Smith | Jun 17, 2019 6:11:41 PM | #31
Yeah, he is stupid enough and moreover very easily swayed. Remember he's got Sheldon Adelson, Kushner, Bibi, Bolton, Pompeo, Cotton and even Adam Schiff telling him to bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran.
Posted by: wontonpiece | Jun 18 2019 2:11 utc | 61
Anon @34--
Here're some of those newly released/doctored photos, thus begging the question, why was the grainy video released when such clear photos were available? Oh, and they don't prove anything either--unless--one looks closely at the boat. 7 people have very obvious life vests on while 3 don't. There's no flag/standard flying from the boat anywhere whereas in all other photos of similar Iranian vessels, the Iranian flag is proudly displayed. The vessel's design is quite interesting for a boat-guy like myself--I've never seen anything like its cockpit. Besides the two chests, there's nothing aboard that resembles a limpet mine. The crew all seem to be wearing the same uniform, but a variety of life vests--3-4 different types--plus the life ring lays on the deck improperly stowed. No hull markings or registration numbers are seen. And as I noted on the previous thread, the boat type seems unique. The seam on the hull appears where? And so on....
USN has zero credibility and that hasn't improved one iota with this release. There ought to be 100s of photos, not just these few. And how about an undoctored video! Ought to check what sorts of ship's boats USN has as this one's very specific.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2019 2:22 utc | 62
Don Bacon @57--
Well, that's a few more photos than from my link. The caption clearly states the overhead shot of the boat was after the supposed mine removal--again, where is it?!?! There's no stowage area anywhere on that vessel. IMO, given its cockpit's arrangement, it's meant to ferry personnel--note all the places to sit along the gunwalls. The previous video showed it to have a specific hull type designed to be both seaworthy and stable--a difficult combination to attain--but at the cost of any stowage space below deck.
Ha! Maybe they decided to just drop it into the sea! Otherwise, where is it in that overhead photo?!
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2019 2:33 utc | 63
@ karlof
And what's with the red splotches? Protecting the innocent?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 2:48 utc | 64
@ DPC 56
re: Morsi
Yes, I think I remember some of that. Thanks for your comment.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 2:51 utc | 65
@ karlof
Yes, an IRGCN ferry boat, outside of its Persian Gulf AOR, in the Gulf of Oman. I can't get that out of my head. I would think that IRGCN would be unwelcome in IRIN territory.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 2:59 utc | 66
@ Don Bacon with link #57 comment
Thanks....Anyone knowledgeable about the bomb mounting pictures they show at the bottom?
The first and second picture seem to show the same hull face but they don't agree with the fourth picture showing damage. Take the length of the white hull height numbers/markers on the right as a ruler and measure out the same distance on the 1/2 versus number 4 pics and see the difference.
Is it humanities karma to die on the basis of a poor lie? What a bunch of losers the elite are. They talk big but when it comes to actual merit they have none...only undeserved faith
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 18 2019 3:05 utc | 67
@ ph
Yes, the nail holes, aluminum and green composite material have moved and/or disappeared. Photoshop does have its limitations.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 3:24 utc | 68
comments from Europe (via CNN)..
>Downing Street spokesperson said at a briefing Monday that if Iran breaches its low-grade uranium stockpile limits, which was agreed under the nuclear pact, then the UK would look at "all options."
>French President Emmanuel Macron said that the Iran announcement was regretful, adding that France "encourage(s) them to adopt a patient and responsible behavior."
>German government spokesman Steffen Seibert and the European Union's foreign policy chief Frederica Mogherini both said that they expect Iran to live up to its obligations as laid out in the deal.. .here
Forget them.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 3:43 utc | 69
@ karlof1 | Jun 17, 2019 10:22:00 PM #59
I'm late to this party, so your close-up images are the first I've seen. If they're not "doctored", then somebody has a really interesting new weapon. Here is what Julian Borger in Washington wrote in the UK Guardian:
One of the images is said to show the remnant of a limpet mine that had been removed – a small jagged piece of green metal, as well as holes made by nails used to hold the mine in place.
Yes, Borger 'was told' that the explosives were nailed to the steel hull of the tanker. Now I don't know the thickness of a tanker's hull, but wouldn't it be at least half an inch of good steel? Was Bolger born with a fishhook through his lip?
It's my WAG (wild-ass-guess) that what the Iranians were removing was an unexploded lightweight devices which had been delivered to the side of the ship by some kind of projectile or drone. If it was theirs, they'd not want the US to inspect it so they went after it themselves. Of course an alternate viewpoint is that they took down a US device to carry home and study.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 18 2019 3:47 utc | 70
@33 lochearn
"We focus on that tiresome old sub-entity the military-industrial complex when it is just a glorified cop enforcing the interests of its master – global capital."
Do you really believe those bankers with their terminals and wingtip shoes are telling the boys with the billion dollars of weaponry what to do? At best they share mutual consideration at times, and when push comes to shove between them, those bankers are going to be looking down the business end of those armaments. Nice little villa you've got there...shame if something were to happen to it.... They are going to work together until they don't.
b4real
Posted by: b4real | Jun 18 2019 3:51 utc | 71
from USNI, a smoking gun....
“Iran is responsible for the attack based on video evidence and the resources and proficiency needed to quickly remove the unexploded limpet mine,” CENTCOM said in a statement.After reviewing the CENTCOM release provided to USNI News, Washington, D.C.-based naval analyst Scott Truver told USNI News the pictures CENTCOM put out on Monday amounted to a certainty that Iran was responsible for the attack.
“I have no doubt and I’ve talked to some of [explosive ordnance and disposal] friends and we’re all in agreement – it’s a smoking gun,” he said.. . .here
Dr. Scott C. Truver
Director of TEAMBLUE, Dr. Truver has 40 years’ experience in research, analysis, program advocacy, and publishing. He oversees and supports Gryphon’s national security efforts. Since 1972, he has participated in numerous studies for government and private industry in the United States and abroad, and has also written extensively for U.S. and foreign publications. He has supported the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of the Navy, the Chief of Naval Operations, the Commandant Marine Corps, the Air Force Strategic Planning Directorate, the Commandant Coast Guard, the Department of Homeland Security Deputy Secretary and Under Secretary for Science and Technology, and many other senior decision makers, as well as the operating forces. He holds a PhD degree in Marine Policy Studies and a MA in Political Science/International Relations from the University of Delaware––where he held University and Rockefeller Foundation fellowships––and a BA degree in Political Science from Susquehanna University. .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jun 18 2019 4:12 utc | 72
Don Bacon @69
And Colin Powell had a much better resume than Dr. Scott C. Truver.
Posted by: Stever | Jun 18 2019 4:20 utc | 73
Iran's nuclear programme serves as a 'bargaining chip' in many ways. It was developed out of the necessity to extract concessions from western powers at best, and/or dissuade them from sanctioning the country at the very least. If Iran continues to enrich uranium and violate the agreement (out of no fault of its own) it will be subject to European sanctions too.
The Iranian mullahs and military apparatus are feeling the heat. They will try to use the nuclear programme and the Strait of Hormuz as bargaining chips. But I don't think it will work.
They may try to survive or adapt to the new sanction regime against them without 'acting out' militarily or they may try to do something. Either way, it is not looking good for the Iranian ruling class. Of course, in the short term, it is the Iranian working class that suffers, and not those in power who control the country's wealth.
Posted by: ninel | Jun 18 2019 4:28 utc | 74
@ ninel with the perspective that Iran "....will try to use the nuclear programme and the Strait of Hormuz as bargaining chips. But I don't think it will work."
Iran is just one of the spinning plates of failing empire. I posit that empire may fall because of the pressure from all the plates like Iran. It takes immense resources to keep all the plates spinning and their wobbles are getting more burdensome to failing empire......it happens slowly then all at once.....where are we along that continuum?
Someone was commenting earlier that China/Russia do not show the same support for say Venezuela as they do for Iran and I agree. I think the reason is that Iran has more of a religious base that is against the usury of the West than reflecting the growing alternative expressions of totally secular socialism like China.....a conundrum that will be exploited by the West.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 18 2019 4:46 utc | 75
Don Bacon @57
If anyone was in doubt before, this is proof that the fuzzy monochrome video with fake interlacing noise was indeed manipulated (by someone incompetent). Unless, of course, you want to believe that the new images have been colorized.
The US was behind this false flag, it is obvious. They are digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves by releasing these new images.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 18 2019 4:57 utc | 76
@ Norwegian | Jun 18, 2019 12:57:57 AM #73
The US was behind this false flag, it is obvious. They are digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves by releasing these new images.
No, it's not obvious. If my own money was on the line, it would be that Iran was demonstrating some new kind of weapon or weapon delivery system. Subtlety is not something the Trumpies understand, so Iran is showing them a glimpse of the brass knuckles. At least that's how I see it for now.
Eventually the all-out economic sanctions will weaken Iran to the point where it'll be in a lot worse shape than it is now. They seem to have decided to have any showdown sooner rather than later. Starting any such conflict when you're in prime shape and the nation is behind you will mean you can last longer, and do far more harm to the US and those regional nations tied to the US of A.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 18 2019 5:14 utc | 77
A few days ago a commentator here mentioned that if the Iranians made a public explanation for the alleged video, the United States would release another high resolution video to disprove the Iranian claims. Well the Iranians have kept quite and the United States has buckled so desperate are they to get their propaganda out. The latest photographs from the Americans really add nothing to the zero evidence against the Iranians presented so far. The Iranians should continue saying nothing until the US has run out of "evidence". Can't help but wonder if Bolton is pushing this process.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Jun 18 2019 5:18 utc | 78
Once again a thank you to Peter AU 1 and karlof1.
The mid-side depth/displacement marks have magically reappeared and like psychohistorian said the location of the "imaginary flying bolted on limpet mine" seems to have moved (to the left) and the "fresh paint" also seems to have moved around, disappeared, or been replaced with other areas of "fresh paint".
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 18 2019 5:33 utc | 79
Israel in possession of close to 100 nuclear warheads: SIPRI
https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/17/598709/Israel-nuclear-warhead-SIPRI
https://southfront.org/sipri-israel-has-close-to-100-nuclear-warheads/
****
Why is this bastard Israel has the right to nuclear weapons, but Iran is not?
Posted by: truth seeker | Jun 18 2019 5:51 utc | 81
Pretty sure the image with the "hand" print is spray painted. You can actually see the drips of paint where too much was sprayed in one spot. Paint more in the middle appears smeared, darker to lighter.
Posted by: Zack | Jun 18 2019 5:56 utc | 82
@ truth seeker | Jun 18, 2019 1:51:48 AM #78
They have as many as they want, and I'd predict the number is much higher than 100.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 18 2019 6:01 utc | 83
Interesting thread:
The collapse in Japan-US relations in 4 steps:
https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status/1140625729232736256
Posted by: John Smith | Jun 18 2019 6:02 utc | 84
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jun 18, 2019 2:01:50 AM | 80
Thanks for your opinion. However it is not an answer on the above question.
Posted by: truth seeker | Jun 18 2019 6:07 utc | 85
EU foreign ministers remained unconvinced by US allegations that Iran was behind last week’s attack on two Gulf tankers, as they arrived at a meeting on Monday.
There was strong support among EU countries for an independent UN investigation and calls for more evidence – with the UK relatively isolated in its support the Trump administration’s line.
One foreign minister invoked the spectre of US misuse of intelligence over Iraq as a reason for scepticism, as representatives of the 28 countries arrived at the council meeting.
****
Riot on the ship?
Posted by: truth seeker | Jun 18 2019 6:14 utc | 86
"If my own money was on the line, it would be that Iran was demonstrating some new kind of weapon or weapon delivery system. Subtlety is not something the Trumpies understand, so Iran is showing them a glimpse of the brass knuckles."
i disagree, do not even wish to continue flirty with this idea since, the us oil production is trying to out produce russia and at the moment they have dug themselves into a big hole of low prices over the years so a spike in prices when production is at maximum definitely correlates with heavy production and the need to recover losses.
and in that sense, iran who has gas and oil products should be shaken so when prices spike they can not cash in.
it really makes sense for usa and saudi/israel. russia gaining from it is only a side blow to these plans but wouldn't matter as much if iran can be shaken which is to tighten its noose around china.
yet, it is not all this simple as russia/china/iran/india vs the west/nato.... the bankers/politicians/demons are indeed on both sides and their only goals are to foment chaos in which blood is traded for money. it is an old concept of murder to steal, the underlying basis of all these wars, whether libya/syria/iraq/afghan - they make u root for a team when the entire system is headed by their subordinates. there are some benevolent peacemakers/actions but they will retire soon as the tide seems too great and the people too polarized (their main goal).
Posted by: jason | Jun 18 2019 8:28 utc | 87
B's theory of an Iranian meta-false-flag in the Gulf of Oman finally debunked by Pentagon and ridiculed as iranian propaganda.
You realize it, if you mind the solar height in the newly released pictures and compare it to the notorious "Likely Mine" - picture previously published. My take:
The "Mine Removal" - picture was taken around 8:30 a.m., perhaps a little earlier, the "Mine"-picture around 9:00 a.m. You'll easily google a solar altitude calculator to check yourself.
By the way, if you enlarge the "Mine" - picture you'll see a poorly photoshopped regular triangle that could by no means be a shadow of a circular object if you compare it with other shadows, but this alone might be considered inconclusive (the photo could have been planted by a double agent). I consider the newly released "footage" in no way compatible with an Iranian Meta-False-Flag - operation. Any other idea, someone?
Posted by: TomGard | Jun 18 2019 10:12 utc | 89
Talks about plans of attack and troop movements to the gulf.
This does not look good for Iran.
There will probably soon be another suspcious attack, perhaps with deaths, to justify a war now by Bolton and Trump.
Posted by: Zanon | Jun 18 2019 10:42 utc | 90
War with Iran is not in US interest, if you don't think they are crazy enough to take Asia out of business that way. It would also take Europe out of business and lead to another economic world depression which would sink the US, too. So, no, I don't think they are crazy enough. But who knows. Steve Bannon certainly envisions a crisis to "make America great again". So maybe they think they have to repeat WW2 to get the US at the position they were after WW2. Evangelicals would certainly enjoy Armageddon. Israelis certainly would not and they have been suspiciously quiet recently.
The US do a continuous shake down of gulf states by playing them off and pretend to support.
I read this here as a threat - mafia like.
Trump ‘thinks he knows’ who was behind 9/11
US President Donald Trump has cryptically suggested he knows who is responsible for the 9/11 attacks, but would not name the names.Speaking to ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in the Rose Garden of the White House this weekend, the president digressed from the subject of the 2003 invasion of Iraq to the infamous terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000 people in New York and Washington in 2001.
“By the way, Iraq did not knock down the World Trade Center,” the president said.
It was not Iraq. It was other people. And I think I know who the other people were.
“And you might also,” he added, looking at Stephanopoulos.
It is not clear who Trump was talking about, but Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda terrorist network are widely considered to be the culprits behind the attacks – even though bin Laden himself denied all involvement on several occasions before his death in 2011.
Posted by: somebody | Jun 18 2019 11:36 utc | 91
somebody 93
Trump said pretty much the same thing during the election campaign. That time, he mentioned the Saudi's. The video is on youtube.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jun 18 2019 11:48 utc | 92
About Trump's "lose-lose" strategy:
China prepares for economic ‘prolonged war’ with Trump
If that's the case and Iran talked to Xi Jinping, then it is very possible it is indeed going to the offensive.
TomGard 91
The US have been desperately trying to manufacture evidence after the fact. They have no idea as to the what, how, who.
Both the Japanese Pm and I think it was the EU second in charge where in Tehran. Both Japan and EU are calling bullshit on the US piss poor attempts at manufacturing evidence. I take it Iran has and has shown the Japanese PM and the EU honcho the evidence they had the foresight to professionally prepare.
Iran may well be pulling a false flag on the US. In effect waiting for US to come up with manufactured evidence that is easily debunked. And the Europeans do seem to be taking notice, perhaps because it is their oil supplies on the line.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jun 18 2019 12:00 utc | 94
karlof1 | Jun 17, 2019 4:59:00 PM | 26 posted link to annanews article on Iranian airdefense. In Russian. Using machine translation the article has most interestingly the implicit assumption that "western partners" will use. "Will use".
quote> " The existing divisions cover only local areas, there are numerous “corridors” uncovered by modern air defense systems in Iran’s airspace, which Western partners will surely take advantage of."
.............
More interestingly, why does anybody even look at the pictures proffered by delusional liars to support a policy of war crime?
Posted by: Walter | Jun 18 2019 12:20 utc | 95
@ 71 b4real
“Do you really believe those bankers with their terminals and wingtip shoes are telling the boys with the billion dollars of weaponry what to do?”
Simple answer: Yes. US weapons sales in 2018 were worth $192 billion. Total miltary budget in 2018 was $650 billion. That does not add up to even a trillion which is a paltry sum when compared to about $30 trillion sloshing around US banks and fund management companies.
Let’s take the example of the world’s biggest arms producer – Lockhead Martin. The State Street Corporation (fund management) holds 16.6% of the shares of Lockhead Martin, Capital World Investors (California) hold 7.7%, Vanguard Group 7% and BlackRock Inc. 6.7%. That means 4 fund management companies own 38% of the stock of Lockead Martin. These guys with the wingtip shoes can fire the entire management team of Lockhead Martin at the drop of a hat.
The finance, insurance and real estate sector accounted for 20% of US GDP in 2016 (Forbes), which means approximately $18 trillion. You may argue that real estate has little to do with bankers but every sale needs a mortgage and private equity has moved into real estate in a big way over the last decade.
It should also be recalled that the man who created the CIA and ran it for over a decade - Allen Dulles - was a Wall Street lawyer.
Posted by: Lochearn | Jun 18 2019 12:29 utc | 96
At this point, there are really only two courses of action available to Iran. One is to cave to the US's demands. This will ultimately result in nothing less than complete surrender, i.e. the total abdication of Iran's leadership and the establishment of another Shah-esque regime. Clearly this is completely unacceptable to Iran's leadership.
If Iran is not going to cave to the US's demands, then it might as well go all-in. That means, probably above all else, accelerating uranium enrichment as much as possible. Yet it's puzzling that Iran would announce its intent to exceed the JCPOA's limits on uranium enrichment. However unwittingly, it gives the US further ammunition for portraying Iran as an ever-growing threat until military action is finally authorized. It would have probably been much more in Iran's interests to have not made any announcement until it achieved either weapons-grade uranium enrichment or a successful test of a nuclear weapon.
War seems very likely at this point. Remember that both world wars were the result of blunders. When they began, no one expected them to end up being so great and terrible. There are those who believe that the US would never go to war with Iran, because such a war would necessarily be disastrous for the US. Those people may be underestimating the stubbornness, hubris, and deludedness of US officials, who may actually compare favorably to Hitler in those qualities.
Posted by: Cynica | Jun 18 2019 12:34 utc | 97
At the time of the tanker incident, RT reported that Iran had rescued the crews of both tankers. TASS is also reporting the same. This report is dated the 18th
https://tass.com/world/1064240
"On June 13, two tankers caught fire in the Gulf of Oman after an attack. The crews, with Russian nationals among their members, were evacuated by the Iranian rescue services and taken to the port of Jask."
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jun 18 2019 12:44 utc | 98
karlof1
I think in the previous thread you linked an Escobar article and wondered about the exceptional happenings Pepe mentioned. Reading through it I thought that what Pepe found exceptional revolved around Iran.
This may be the beginnings.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201906171075913700-arrests-cia-run-busted-in-iran/
""Given the cooperation between the Islamic Republic of Iran and other countries in creating an 'international organisation to counter American espionage', we provided our partners with information that led to the disclosure and dismantling of a network of CIA officers, as well as detention and punishment of several spies in different countries", the senior official said."
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jun 18 2019 12:51 utc | 99
Does anyone here remember the Iranian Mojahedin-e Khalq (MEK) support in the US? MEK fake news troll farms in support of Trump?
https://lobelog.com/mek-impunity-undermining-americas-democracy/
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The problem the EU will have to shield firms from US punishment, concerns firms doing work both in Iran and the US. Meaning all the bigger ones. Maybe the a high percentage? Cannot really be done. The US can simply target the American arm of the business for penal action.
Posted by: joanna | Jun 18 2019 13:08 utc | 100
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No, its not true. The problem is banking. European banks would not be able to stand up if they lost access to US dollar clearing. They would fail very quickly without official support.
Posted by: Harry | Jun 17 2019 18:09 utc | 1