Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 24, 2019

'Troops To Iran' Scare - The Mountain Brings Forth A Mouse

On May 13 a leak to the New York Times launched an 'troops to Iran' scare:

The US military is exploring a plan to deploy 120,000 troops to the Middle East as tensions with Iran intensify - NYT/Business Insider, May 13

On May 14 we wrote:

The 120,000 troop deployment is the third option. The number is too high for an attack by air and on sea and too low for an attack on land, i.e. an invasion of Iran. Releasing the third option number is likely designed to rally against such a move.

From there on varying numbers were all over the news:

Trump denies U.S. plan to send 120,000 troops to counter Iran threat - Reuters, May 14
Trump says he'd send 'a hell of a lot more' than 120,000 troops to fight Iran if it came to that - Business Insider, May 14
Pentagon mulling military request to send 5,000 troops to Middle East: officials - Reuters, May 23
Trump: No plan now for more troops to confront Iran - Washington Times, May 23
The Pentagon’s plan to send up to 10,000 troops to the Middle East is about Iran - Vox, May 23
US officials: Plan may send up to 10,000 troops to Mideast - AP, May 24

Finally Trump put out a real number:

Trump says US to send 1,500 more troops to Middle East - AP, May 25

Unfortunately it was still wrong. Here is the real one:

Acting Defense Secretary Pat Shanahan notified Congress on Friday that he had authorized a request from U.S. Central Command to send the additional forces – an Air Force fighter jet squadron, an engineering element and combination of manned and unmanned intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets – into the Middle East, he said in a statement. The Pentagon will also extend the deployment of some 600 soldiers from a Patriot missile battalion already serving in the region.

There seems to have been a minor war between John Bolton, Trumps National Security Advisor, and the State Department or Pentagon. Bolton is longing for his war on Iran and sending lots of troops would eventually provide for that. The State Department and the Pentagon want to prevent that catastrophe from happening and preferred to send none. Trump eventually agreed to minimal number.

There are in total some 20,000+ U.S. troops in the various countries of the Middle East. The additional 900 send now will not make any difference.

The idiocy of the whole discussion was well captured by the German satire site Der Postillon. On May 16 it headlined (translated):

US sounds alarm: "Iran is moving its country ever closer to our troops!"

Tensions between Washington and Tehran continue to increase. Now the United States accuses Iran of moving its borders ever closer to US troops. In part, American soldiers were almost in firing range.

bigger
"Iran is using its territory to harass our peacefully deployed troops," said US National Security Advisor John Bolton. "Some of the country's borders come dangerously close to our soldiers - almost in range, Iran must stop doing that right away!"
...
The US threatened to mobilize its troops. Bolton: "We are a peaceful nation, but if Iran dares to let its borders cross below the feet of our soldiers, that inevitably means war!"

Five days after later Reuters converted the satire into news:

Iran's reach puts U.S. forces, allies in striking range

Sure, Iran's reach did that ...

Posted by b on May 24, 2019 at 02:15 PM | Permalink

Comments

Nice job b

What comes after laughing at them?

At what point do they understand that their perfidy is naked to the world?

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 2:21:23 PM | 1

I am sorry, the correct question needs to be

When are the well intentioned nations of the world going to admit that there are alternatives to empire and move their nations into that sphere of influence and away from private financed empire?

That is when change will occur...and we are seeing it in real time

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 2:25:04 PM | 2

The incredible shrinking deployment:
WASHINGTON – The Pentagon will send another 900 troops to the Middle East in the coming weeks in a move meant to bolster security for U.S. troops in the region amid heightening tensions with Iran, the Defense Department announced Friday. .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24, 2019 2:34:54 PM | 3

Peter AU 1 reported the following on the week in review:

" a #US diplomatic convoy travelling to #Baghdad Airport was hit by several powerful roadside bombs. A high-level State Department political officer, 3 diplomats and a U.S. Army colonel were instantly killed....

"A suicide attacker hit a U.S. military unit operating in eastern Syria, near the Iraqi border. Two American Special Operations troops were killed, and two more were taken hostage by a Syrian militia."

Both reports are from Magnier's Twitter, but I dropped his references to Iran, which relates to the comment I left there:

"I recall when Imperial personnel were ferried by helo from Green Zone to airport because highway was too dangerous; it seems those days have returned. However, such attacks don't require any link to Iran as there're plenty of Iraqi groups willing and able to launch such operations. They could easily be tied to the political effort being waged in Iraqi Parliament to pass legislation ousting US occupation forces--again. I would expect such incidents to escalate."

It's possible that those attacks were more "message sending," but I think the situation in Iraq is a far more plausible explanation.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 2:38:44 PM | 4

I posted these two tweets by Magnier earlier in the open thread.

Elijah J. Magnier
‏@ejmalrai
2h2 hours ago
More
A suicide attacker hit a U.S. military unit operating in eastern Syria, near the Iraqi border. Two American Special Operations troops were killed, and two more were taken hostage by a Syrian militia widely believed to be backed by Iran.

Elijah J. Magnier
‏@ejmalrai
2h2 hours ago
More
One week after Soleimani’s calls to #Hezbollah leader S. H. Nasrallah, a #US diplomatic convoy travelling to #Baghdad Airport was hit by several powerful roadside bombs. A high-level State Department political officer, 3 diplomats and a U.S. Army colonel were instantly killed.

Trump attacking China is like Hitler attacking the Soviet Union. China can no longer bide its time building up strength. China Russia Iran now all under direct attack from the US. Trump's 1500 troop deployment may end up only covering attrition in the coming months. China will be looking to protect its oil supplies.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 2:43:53 PM | 5

karlof1

Looks like we were posting at the same time. My thought is that the militias in Syria and Iraq made up of locals would be working in unison with Iran rather than simply following orders.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 2:48:58 PM | 6

@ Peter AU 1 with the reports of US deaths

Thanks for the reporting and sorry for the deaths but not unexpected and more to follow. There is a lot of pent up hate for empire so I would not be surprised to see special forces dying all over the world....even in places we had no idea they were there

Empire is losing control of global narrative and they know it. It is not a matter of more plates spinning or bolstering the ones going. It is a matter of faith in the plate spinner and that is fading.

Anywhere that empire has its financial jackboot is open season now that the game is forced to boots on the ground warfare. How long will the public be kept in the dark about the body bags or will Trump go to every funeral?.../snark

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 3:01:22 PM | 7

At what point do they understand that their perfidy is naked to the world?

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 2:21:23 PM | 1

Naked doesn't seem to make any difference does it? After all, Trump is as naked as imperialism gets, he lets it all hang out and he let’s us know what the real deal is. He heads an Empire, so he and his class don’t a give a fuck. ‘Let everyone look on, we’re the Empire, we do as we please. Fuck with us and we'll fuck you up.’ They may argue over tactics, even strategy but they have the same goal.

How do we stop these fuckers? Well, we know the answer and even Russia finally had to admit (and nearly too late) that the only thing that matters is, as Mao put it that 'power grows out of the barrel of a gun”.

Posted by: barovsky | May 24, 2019 3:07:07 PM | 8

"Finally Trump put out a real number:
Trump says US to send 1,500 more troops to Middle East - AP, May 25
Unfortunately it was still wrong."

from the linked piece
The Pentagon will send another 900 troops to the Middle East...
The Pentagon will also extend the deployment of some 600 soldiers...

900 + 600 = 1500

I doubt the US were considering pulling the Patriots so the next planned rotation will be moving in alongside those whos deployment was extended.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 3:18:41 PM | 9

@ barovsky who quoted Mao as saying power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

Mao said a lot of things. If you read the link about protracted war provided by another commenter by Mao you would come away with a much deeper understanding of what Mao thought about power.

Sometimes guns are used and other times threat of nukes are used in this protracted war against imperialism that China has been fighting since 1937

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 3:21:21 PM | 10

"Anywhere that empire has its financial jackboot is open season now that the game is forced to boots on the ground warfare. "
psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 3:01:22 PM

There is something called competitive advantage. IDF excels at harassing villagers, they have special technology, training etc. US is unbeatable in imposing financial penalties. As long as they stick to that, results are satisfactory. Alas, classical education fills the heads of dreamers with stories of victories at Issos, Gaugamela etc. Real men fight Persians.

My thought is that the militias in Syria and Iraq made up of locals would be working in unison with Iran rather than simply following orders. Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 2:48:58 PM

Locals are often a disagreeable lot that show they anger to people from a different village, province or country, so Iranian commands are not necessary. Example 1: an alleged anti-Iranian Shia leader in Iraq was also most anti-American (it is more complicated, he selected marjah in Qom that is not a follower of Ali Khamenei, however, "his militia" was a rather unruly band of locals who detested Americans. Example 2: a weapon storage facility was placed in Western Poland in a village, and while not armed, villagers in Poland can be grumpy. American truck rode over a fence, and then the owner punched an American in a bar, as it was proudly told to a reporter. German countryside seems to be best, American should feel happy to have bases there.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 24, 2019 3:26:32 PM | 11

The Postillon is great - there is sometimes and English version.
https://www.the-postillon.com/2017/11/syria-edition-of-risk.html

Toy manufacturer Hasbro today presented a new version of the classic strategy board game Risk which will be commercially available from spring 2018. In Risk Syria, up to 32 players (Russia, USA, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Germany, Iran, etc.) can engage in a proxy war on the battleground of Syria using an unending series of dice games to dispute the bombed-out city of Aleppo and the handling of so-called ‘Islamic State’.
The special feature of Risk Syria (€55.99, US$ 64.99) is that neither Assad’s government in Damascus nor the extremists take part in the game as powers in their own right.

Posted by: Michael Droy | May 24, 2019 3:27:32 PM | 12

I understand the "economic draft," but enlisting's always been a gamble. There's lots of evidence against it, and the US Army just provided a platform for more to be disseminated:

"The responses to this are incredible. Veterans who were part of the US war machine and were chewed up and spit out, abused and abandoned, are sharing their stories.

"The US Army's attempt at doing propaganda backfired, hard."

In response to US Army comeon:

"It mangled my health and defrauded me my service related claims by "losing" my documents. Though I kept them all, somehow the VA just keeps losing them or rejecting them on account of the Army having no record of ANYTHING I ever did apart from enlist and get honorably discharged."

Here's the overall thread containing the above story and all too many more. For those that haven't, please do see Born on the Fourth of July. The timing of the US Army's attempt at propaganda is possibly related to Sanders very principled stance on his previous and current Anti-War positions. At the moment there seems to be quite a bit of anarchy reigning with the Assange indictment forcing many previous accusers to flip. It's too early to tell how that will play out in the run-up to 2020, but it most surely will.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 3:31:11 PM | 13

Piotr Berman

That is also my understanding of some of the groups, especially in Iraq.
in this case though, the hits are too wide spread. Tankers in the Gulf of Oman, oil pipeline in KSA, department of state convoy in Iraq and US mercenaries in Syria.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 3:39:42 PM | 14

The MSM received the USG talking points, via email. . . . "1500 troops . . .amid Iran tensions."

WaPo: Trump approves sending more forces to the Middle East amid tensions ...
Fox: Trump sends 1500 troops to Middle East amid Iran tensions
The Week: Trump to send 1500 troops to the Middle East amid Iran tensions
The Hill: Trump defense chief: US may send more troops to Middle East amid Iran tensions
Deutsche Welle: US may deploy thousands more troops amid Iran tension
Haaretz: Amid Iran Tensions, Trump Announces Deployment of 1500 Troops to ...
The Times of Israel: Pentagon proposes bolstering US forces in Mideast amid Iran tensions

Can't help it, these tensions just happen sometimes! . .Take an aspirin and call me in the morning.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24, 2019 4:14:26 PM | 15

Just spent an hour reading the thread I linked @13, and unfortunately I'm not shocked or surprised at all. I consider myself lucky that my enlistment in USA Reserves due to the economic draft in 1979 was during a lull in Outlaw US Empire adventurism. Dad was lucky since his Draft time was spent after Korea and he got GI Bill benefits. Yet the stories told on that thread are painful for numerous reasons, but one in particular stands above all the rest--None of them had to happen; none of their experiences were done in genuine defense of the USA. In essence, they were murdered and maimed by their own government.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 4:22:10 PM | 16

It is not difficult to see the source of the war hysteria; in addition to bolton's insanity, he has a PAC which is well funded by warmongering oligarchs. It of course provides "contributions" to congressional sychophants.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/05/interests-pushing-for-hard-line-against-iran/

From article:
Overall, 28 sitting senators have received sizable contributions from John Bolton PAC during the election cycle, as have nine representatives on the House defense, foreign affairs, and homeland security subcommittees.

Posted by: Taras 77 | May 24, 2019 5:03:33 PM | 17

Trump, military, Republicans and Democrats are doing NOTHING to protect the US border but they have plenty of troops for more zio wars.

Posted by: Jerry | May 24, 2019 6:18:13 PM | 18

Proof U.S. Is Provoking Iran Into War

Jimmy Dore and cast at their finest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOudBT4S4y0&t=611s

Posted by: Stever | May 24, 2019 6:18:14 PM | 19

karlof1: ... murdered and maimed by their own government

Your concern rings hollow because you think the people can change this through voting.

Those vets got played. But if they complain then they are depicted as sore losers that dishonor their own sacrifice.

The time to fight against war is before it starts. And since war is so lucrative, that 'battle' never ends. The Kool-Aid is disarming. Stop drinking it.

Yeah, there's place for patriotism. And for righteous wars. But not for reinforcing control of a mafia.

What happens when the mafia wins and there are no more wars? That's when the horror really starts.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 24, 2019 6:19:04 PM | 20

JR--I have absolutely nothing more to say to you. FOAD!

Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 6:26:13 PM | 21

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/05/24/596814/US-Saudi-Arabia-UAE-arms-sales

headline Trump defies congress clears arms sales to Saudia:UAE Senator..

the fog clears Saudi is to attack Iran?

Posted by: snake | May 24, 2019 6:44:59 PM | 22

psychohistorian @ 1

Glad you introduced the naked word. In contrast to Obama, Trump you can see totally naked, his bollocks swinging around yet bolted to Bolton’s naked imperialism, having had any stuffing he had kicked out of him. The empire has lost its clothes; it is both farcical and dangerous in equal measure.

I totally missed the famous children’s story on the Emperor is Naked by Hans Christian Anderson until a few years ago.
http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

Barovsky @ 8 Well said.

Posted by: Lochearn | May 24, 2019 6:49:31 PM | 23

Stever @19

That's the kind of thing that it'll take to stop the asshats: Massive protests, uncomfortable moments, and personal sacrifice.

And we'd better start appreciating (more) people like Assange, Jimmy Dore, Cassandra Fairbanks, Aron Mate, and Medea Benjamin/Code Pink.

Also: beware the controlled opposition (astro-turf organizations and phony pundits)!! They're easy to spot when you understand their game: "hold my beer" pretense to gain your trust then FUD and "democracy works" talking points to diffuse your anger and dissuade meaningful action.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 24, 2019 6:52:47 PM | 24

The bee also did this story
https://babylonbee.com/news/in-act-of-aggression-iran-puts-its-country-right-next-to-our-aircraft-carriers

Posted by: Carna | May 24, 2019 6:59:50 PM | 25

@ 8 Barovsky

Reading your post again I see how it influenced mine. Thank you and appreciation.

Posted by: Lochearn | May 24, 2019 7:00:29 PM | 26

bang on b.. thanks.. your picture tells the real story here..

Posted by: james | May 24, 2019 7:03:45 PM | 27

I mistakenly crashed a thread last weekend by cutting and pasting a long http link, while above I see several apparent and cut and paste links. Is it safe to cut and past a link as long as it does not exceed one full line or do all links require a certain protocol be followed? Excuse my ignorance.

Posted by: Schmoe | May 24, 2019 7:15:19 PM | 28

Regarding stopping the war madness, I think the most vulnerable part of it is enlistment.
First, seventy one percent of youth are ineligible for recruitment, -- obesity drugs education.
Then if the enlistment targets knew the truth about military service, and the statistics attendant to the problems, that might give them pause. "Them" are mostly teenage boys and girls, in high school!
The Army is already short of recruitment targets, so if these teens had some facts they might be even shorter of recruitment goals and even less able to deploy troops.
How to reach the recruitment targets? According to the most recent news I have, teens have phased out of Facebook in favor of Snapchat etc. Being a dinosaur, I have no knowledge of such things. How do they get the recruitment pitch and what's the best way to counter it? I don't know. I tried to get a program going with an anti-war group, and financed it, but it didn't go anywhere.
Any thoughts or ideas?

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 24, 2019 7:39:12 PM | 29

Only 1,500? Maybe the US Army has a problem with finding new recruits:

‘Wrecked’: US Army Tweet Backfires as Veterans Detail Post-Service Trauma

In fiscal year 2018, the US Army failed to meet its goal of 80,000 new recruits, falling short by 6,500, according to the Army Times.

Posted by: vk | May 24, 2019 7:46:46 PM | 30

@Don Bacon (28)

I hear the birth rate in the US is falling like worn out briefs. There's your answer.

Posted by: bjd | May 24, 2019 7:52:42 PM | 31

Jackrabbit @20

What you said to Karlof1 was terribly smug and obnoxious.

You're wrong about voting. It's the collective involvement that's important. People need to form collective positions about what they want; at present, in the US, only voting has the potential to provide that.

Antifa, Black Lives Matter, Occupy are all controlled opposition - I believe you advocate for these groups? The Dakota oil pipeline and gilets jaunes are genuine protests - you can tell it is because people really get threatened and beat-up by the Police.

You don't build mass movements insulting people; you build mass movements by being where people are (not where you want then to be).

You have voted in elections so you shouldn't come the raw prawn!

Posted by: ADKC | May 24, 2019 7:54:39 PM | 32

@ALL

I just saw Unity4J on YouTube.
I think the tide may be turning.
Let's hope so.

Posted by: bjd | May 24, 2019 7:54:45 PM | 33

I just have seen this guy on the Jimmy Dore show. The clip is from 2012 but is still extremely relevant.

Patrick Clawson of the influential neo-con Washington Institute for Near East Studies OPENLY suggests that the US should provoke Iran into taking the first shot.Israel Lobbyist suggests False Flag attack to start war with Iran.

Youtube clip

Posted by: d | May 24, 2019 8:02:42 PM | 34

Don Bacon @28--

Recruiters often go directly to the source--high schools, especially those in poor districts susceptible to the economic draft--junior colleges and universities. I've even read reports of them going to intermediate schools, grades 6-9. As combat and support systems get more complex/sophisticated, the need for recruits to be smart has skyrocketed to a point well beyond the criteria faced by my peers in 1979. Indeed, 75% of them would never have been able to enlist, and none were obese then. I'm sure you've seen the "Army of One" ads; they relate to the demand for soldiers needing the ability to think for themselves besides merely following orders whereas current pop culture promotes the opposite. Such issues are quickening the pace of combat droid development, which is alarming.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 8:08:03 PM | 35

Don Bacon @28

The armed services are active in schools and provide funding to schools to allow their involvement. They get them young. Surely you know this?

Posted by: ADKC | May 24, 2019 8:12:04 PM | 36

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/05/24/596814/US-Saudi-Arabia-UAE-arms-sales

rump defies Congress, clears arms sales to Saudi, UAE: Senator
Fri May 24, 2019 07:57PM [Updated: Fri May 24, 2019 08:03PM

Saudi is to attack Iran.. ?

Posted by: snake | May 24, 2019 8:39:55 PM | 37

@27 Schmoe.. it is best that you learn how to post links, which is explained on this site in area immediately above where you type of paste the data into when you post! the short answer to your question is yes, but again - best to learn the code as listed above...

Posted by: james | May 24, 2019 8:40:09 PM | 38

of - or... actually data on posting urls is in the space to the right of where you post your name and e mail on the bottom right..

Posted by: james | May 24, 2019 8:42:35 PM | 39

@ Schmoe with the question about HTML links

As an old techie, I would be happy to provide some instruction using a simple text editor. Send me an email if you wish to learn how to create HTML links simply and correctly every time.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 9:07:52 PM | 40

ADKC

... terribly smug and obnoxious.

I was made a valid point about the Empire's dupes and how people get played into being a dupe.

You're wrong about voting.

There are many people that see it the same way. Captured in the phrase: if voting changed anything, it would be illegal.

But voting is especially ineffective when it comes to issues concerning the Empire. For example, in 2016 EVERY Presidential candidate supported the military and Israel. You could not vote for a candidate that would lower military spending or be neutral wrt to Israel.

Given that reality, isn't it disingenuous to express sorry for broken vets while advocating voting as the way to effect change?

People need to form collective positions ...

They do. In USA they are herded into Democrats and Republicans.

... about what they want ...

Well, they DON'T WANT war. That's pretty clear from polling and voting. Yet the wars go on. And anyone that disagrees is labeled anti-humanitarian, anti-patriotic, or a Russian sympathizer.

And the DON'T WANT extreme wealth inequality that allows the wealthiest to game the system. Yet that is what we have. And anyone that disagrees is labled a socialist.

... in the US, only voting has the potential to provide that.

Let's vote peacefully like good sheep. It's OK if nothing changes ... there's always the next election.

Antifa, Black Lives Matter, Occupy are all controlled opposition - I believe you advocate for these groups?

Your belief is incorrect. Each of these is very different.

I see Antifa as astroturf and have never supported it. BLM was a genuine Movement but it seems to have been co-opted. Occupy was not controlled opposition. In fact, it was taken down in a coordinated national action because it couldn't be co-opted.

The Dakota oil pipeline and gilets jaunes are genuine protests - you can tell it is because people really get threatened and beat-up by the Police.

Mostly agree with that. Some occupy protesters were also roughed up, as I recall.

You don't build mass movements insulting people;

You don't build mass movements by ignoring reality either.

... you build mass movements by being where people are (not where you want then to be).

Party-based Movements based on "where people are" instead of principles have been abject failures. They are gamed:

Obama's campaign in 2008 was essentially a mass movement. There was much anger toward the Bush Administration and much hopium for what people thought was a candidate of color that understood how the system had shafted people. But Obama broke most of his campaign pledges and proved to be a loyal servent of the establishment. The "Movement" went nowhere fast.

In 2020 Sanders progressive Movement was betrayed by sheepdog Sanders himself: Sanders wouldn't confront Hillary on character issues (which likely would've allowed him to win the Democratic nomination) and then supported Hillary despite DNC-Hillary collusion.

In 2020, the "Collective" (as you call it) of progressive voters face a third failure as the multitude of progressive candidates running for the Democratic Party nomination will divide the progressive vote, allowing a Democratic moderate OR fake progressive to lose to Trump in the general election.


Voters in USA, for the most part, are deluded and propagandized so much that they don't known which way is up. Most support a party or a personality because that's the easy establishment-approved way to voice their frustrations. They spend waaay too much time listening to establishment propaganda and waaay too little time actually thinking for themselves.

You have voted in elections so you shouldn't come the raw prawn!

Yeah, I've voted. But I've also THOUGHT ABOUT how it turned out.

It's virtually impossible to change a rigged system. Only an independent Movement (like Gillets Jaune) can do that.

The establishment actively tries to prevent such a Movement from developing. Mainly by urging people to continue to place their hope in the rigged system!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 24, 2019 9:41:29 PM | 41

donkey dembot doesn't approve of my comments. That's not surprising.

Once again we see donkey spinning a 'tale'. I criticize Trump all the time, but donkey says I'm a Trump supporter. LOL.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 24, 2019 10:07:15 PM | 42

US troops getting killed is part of the solution, and is what invaders deserve. I hope there are MANY, MANY MORE, if that’s what it takes.

Posted by: Featherless | May 24, 2019 10:08:53 PM | 43

Posted by: Schmoe | May 24, 2019 7:15:19 PM | 27
(Links which mess up a thread)

Lots of links one finds on the www contain spaces & hyphens which allow them to word-wrap. You can check if your link is going to disrupt the thread by clicking PREVIEW before you post your comment. If it is disruptive it will disrupt the PREVIEW. Then you can use the HREF formula in the comment box to hide the entire link under a few red words, as b has done a few lines below the top of this thread...
e.g.
In the line "On May 14 we wrote:" - the word "wrote" has a link under it which can be seen (on the bottom of your screen) when you place the mouse pointer on it.

PS.
You can PREVIEW your first HREF experiment until you get it right :-)

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 24, 2019 10:12:03 PM | 44

Schmoe
Some links will break into two lines others don't. If you are unsure, check them on preview.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | May 24, 2019 10:16:18 PM | 45

Apoptosis: A type of cell death in which a series of molecular steps in a cell lead to its death. This is one method the body uses to get rid of unneeded or abnormal cells. Also called programmed cell death.

Social apoptosis in honey bee superorganisms: Altruistic suicide of immature bees constitutes a social analogue of apoptosis, as it prevents the spread of infections by sacrificing parts of the whole organism.

Society's view of veterans: They are damaged beyond repair or further use to society.

Uncle Sam's strategy for dealing with military veterans: Delay, Deny, and Hope They Die

Veterans' response to above: Twenty suicides per day. Every day. Probably for decades.

It's well past time to discuss social apoptosis in human society. Is it a deliberate strategy to deal with "Useless Eaters" or does it conveniently suit the needs of Dear Leaders?


Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 24, 2019 10:24:19 PM | 46

All, thanks for the html / http comments and psychohistorian I will email you tomorrow.

Posted by: Schmoe | May 24, 2019 10:30:04 PM | 47

Below is a link to a cartoon by Mr. Fish posted at Truthdig that takes the scare shit to the next level of absurdity

We are retaliating for Iran’s future aggressions

Mr. Fish is great sometimes

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 10:37:24 PM | 48

In the late 1990s my nephew told me it was human nature to kill and he wanted to do it legally, so he joined the Marines. I'm sure they were happy to have him. Uncle Sam sent him to Fallujah to pacify the natives. He didn't succeed, but he did see a bunch of fellow soldiers die. Somehow he survived the carnage, more or less.

It scares me to think, what if there are millions of young people who harbor such dark thoughts, and are ready to act on them?

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 24, 2019 10:46:48 PM | 49

Jackrabbit @ 41
... wealth inequality that allows the wealthiest to game the system.

IRS rules: Married couple can now give away about $23,000,000
from their estate without paying any tax.

U don't have $1M? $5M? $10M? $20M? to give away?

Tough truth! U can't play! U don't write the rules!

Posted by: chu teh | May 24, 2019 10:52:08 PM | 50

Jrabbit's points are all valid, but until the mass movements begin, I'll vote for the therapy, and fund the people I believe in.

The rich fund the people that do their bidding, so, the great unwashed masses must do the same. Sitting on our asses and doing nothing is unacceptable. It takes $ people. Quit being penny pinchers, provide $ to folks you believe in, or throw a f###ing brick, if it comes to that.

As nobodies it's all you can do.

Start with this site, and sent b a monthly...

Posted by: ben | May 24, 2019 10:53:29 PM | 51

@ Trailer Trash who wrote
"
It scares me to think, what if there are millions of young people who harbor such dark thoughts, and are ready to act on them?
"
It has been the purpose of the MSM for decades now to prepare the public for might-makes-right solutions to most situations instead of mutual respect, dialogue and negotiation. Trump is helping do a good job of normalizing hatred, racism, lying, and bullying others. That said, the number of both brainwashed and potentially harmful folk should not be in the millions, IMO

Given that empire is now being stifled in its continued world domination we get to see if these same folks are sore losers as well.

They sure as heck can't sell their social order to others on its merits.....financial slavery for all but the inherited top and asslickers.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 24, 2019 11:04:47 PM | 52

In response to the scare tactics against Iran there is this show of support from Iraq (Xinhuanet)

Supporters of Iraqi Shiite cleric al Sadr rally against possible U.S.-Iran war

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 25, 2019 1:14:34 AM | 53

All on this thread
‘Together we stand devided we fall’

Posted by: Mark2 | May 25, 2019 2:11:14 AM | 54

This "threat" from Iran is also a convenient excuse for Trump to declare a national security emergency" and bypass Congress on selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Jordan, which seems to have been the plan behind this all along.

Posted by: ralphieboy | May 25, 2019 2:37:15 AM | 55

I see the hidden trolls have been activated , remember the astroturfers works in tag teams , first wave consists of easily discerned low knowledge ignorant trolls whose purpose is to distract or act as fake target for the more sophisticated trolls.. Sophisticated you ask ? yes this is the hidden troll that for a long time will lurk and post agreeable and not pro govt narrative , until certain times they got asked to intervene and led people into lies , maybe taking some ppl with him due to his previous reputation as “knowledgable and civilized” poster.

I am talking about Peter AU and JackRabbit , first peter AU spread lies about EM’s tweet , as EM’s tweet was refering to the WAPO hypothetical scenarios instead of real happening , second JackRabbit showed his cards again trying to pull down people who posted against the narrative..

Old MOA regulars will remember how during Erdogan coup , Jackrabbit was doing endless damage control pushing narrative that it is not the west but erdogan himself that initiate the fake coup. It become funnier and funnier as every Topic on MoA got OOT post by JR pushing “Fake Erdo Coup” narrative for few months ..

as a lurker and long time MoA reader , i personally think Karlof and James are common people who posted their opinion here .. i might be wrong but as of Peter AU and Jackrabbit im sure they are paid astroturfer assigned here on MoA.

Posted by: milomilo | May 25, 2019 3:01:56 AM | 56

We can never be sure who are genuine and who is fake on the internet, healthy suspicion is the best policy! Beyound doubt there will be suspects here. I see that as an opportunity to speak the truth to power.
We are truly all victems of the deep state mind control, even the people who go to war and veterans.
I feel sorry for them and what they have been through ! But I feel more sorry for the people they murdered, the family’s and inocent community’s around the world they have distroyed, the country’s they have distroyed, the hard working tax payers who have had there trillions wasted on mass murder !
But none the less their still human and still victems of psychopath elite.
Take a look - - -
https://medium.com/@Devutopia/what-happens-next-after-may-resigns-6f37f0d9c14a

Posted by: Mark2 | May 25, 2019 3:46:40 AM | 57

We should never forget the hard fact that only 5% of US military persons are land warfare combat forces. So every time you heard about "120,000 US troops" you should translate it to real language: how can you win a land war with force equal to just about 6-7 infantry, airborne or armored battalions . Please remember lessons from American War in Vietnam. Yes they had then maximum 540,000 soldiers but only 70,000 were front line land war combat soldiers and even 1/3 of them not capable to be sent front line combat. This meant that just about 40,000 grunts (in theory) fight in Vietnam. No wonder why GI's had no chance to win anything in Vietnam.

Conclusions: US Military is mostly nothing but a communist paradise for its soldiers. Life outside military, in civil society (in America) is much more though, dangerous and grim. There is no Mammy helping you like in Military.

Posted by: Travis | May 25, 2019 3:56:53 AM | 58

My above link @ 57
Went to the right site but was on the wrong topic ! I won’t attempt to re try.
Please go to that site press the black m and look for - - -
‘’Human Parts
The conversation we refuse to have about war and veterans.’’

Very thought provoking must read ! ! !

Posted by: Mark2 | May 25, 2019 4:01:10 AM | 59

White House downplays prospect of conflict but blames Iran for tanker bombings and Iraq (Guardian)
They really aren't serious, are they? The same thing's happening as the last time (spring 2018, was it?) when Israel was about to stir things over events in Syria supposedly driven by Iran, and suddenly it all went cold, and they started talking about destabilising Iran from within (also a failed US policy dating back 40 years). The hair-trigger warmongers, like Bolton, must all be ready to stir up war, and then there's a cold douche from the military. Not that Bolton and his clones will ever change, until they're carried out to the graveyard.

There's not the slightest sign that what happened in Iraq had anything to do with Iran, and I think everyone knows it. As for going back to helicopters being necessary to get Americans from the Green Zone to the airport, it is certainly true that there's a push to get the US out. I doubt that the government (Abd al-Mahdi) is strong enough to enforce a parliamentary vote. You have to remember that US representatives are present in the chamber and will be lobbying hard to avoid such a vote taking place. They've succeeded so far, I have the impression (though I haven't followed the subject in detail). I wouldn't be surprised if they have to be pretty harsh in their bullying of MPs. There's a very high level of scepticism of the US, and they'd like them out. Individual and group acts against US personnel are on the cards. But it's only against the US; other Westerners are welcomed, as I was learning the other day from colleagues in my business.

Posted by: laguerre | May 25, 2019 4:40:05 AM | 60

at the height of vietnam war commitment , US field about 500.000 troops yet less than 90.000 saw combat day in day out. Only line infantry and marine infantry faced combat daily , even the special forces deep in their boondocks with their native and mercenaries dont have constant combat..

and remember the US military manpowe during vietnam was propped by forced enlistment during cold war era.. Today the volunteer millitary and endless COIN campaign have left US military exhausted and weapon system rusted or used to near their retirement age.

any big war will need forced enlistment again , and it will be fun to watch american weaklings get roped to die in persia just like crassus and his legions..

Posted by: milomilo | May 25, 2019 4:55:44 AM | 61

Jackrabbit @41

Your smug and obnoxious comment was directed at Karlof1 it is dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

You are free to say anything you want but you appear not to be conscious that you can behave in a way that echoes the duopoly (Dem/Rep) you are so keen to overthrow.

Vets are victims as well. I do have sympathy for them - this doesn't mean I approve of the military and it's crimes. Notice how crimes committed by US forces rarely get attributed to the chain of command.

When I looked into the Occupy movement I found that many of the main organisations comprising the movement were now funded by Open Societies Foundation (Soros) and many of the leading figures not appeared to be employed with such funded organisations. So if Occupy was an independent movement (which I doubt) it has since been co-opted.

I would imagine that many millions of Americans are disturbed by the outcome of their elections but they will vote again and then they will consider the outcome and then....who knows?

The gilet jaunes voted in the last French elections, they will vote in the next, but they will continue to protest but may evolve into something else (as nuit dubout evolved into gilet jaunes). If the French state continue to increasingly oppressive the gilet jaunes it may be crushed or something truly extraordinary may happen....who knows?

Posted by: ADKC | May 25, 2019 5:46:42 AM | 62

psychohistorian @ 48 says:

Below is a link to a cartoon by Mr. Fish...

no, your link is to a cartoon by Patrick Chappatte, who works for the NYT.

Mr. Fish is way saucier.

Posted by: john | May 25, 2019 7:02:32 AM | 63

It's possible that those attacks were more "message sending," but I think the situation in Iraq is a far more plausible explanation.
Posted by: karlof1 | May 24, 2019 2:38:44 PM | 4

What Iran is saying to the US - in a totally unattributable and plausibly deniable manner - is "For every shot you fire, we control and direct the ricochet, and we will direct it back to kill the US forces. Every shot you fire will be transformed into friendly fire, which hits always where it is unexpected." The local proxies are their own people, they look after their own interests, they are self-motivating. The Resistance Axis is at the same time both one and many. When you shoot into it you can never kill it because it is constantly flowing and re-flowing between one and many, but it reacts as one, and then instantly dissolves again into many.

But when Iran says "Pull" it pulls; when Iran says "Push" it pushes - not because the axis is the puppet of Iran, not because it lacks independence and it's own decision-making, but because Iran has long supported the Axis of Resistance with perseverence, integrity, loyalty and honour, with patience and endurance, and has therefore earned the right to call shots.

Each of these shots can be viewed as causally related to the US's own actions in different parts of the Middle East theatre, so that the US can never say "That was done by Iran, we will hit Iran", but while the US flexes its muscles and cavorts on the stage, threatening Iran with hollow words, unable to fire real shots out of fear of the dire consequences, Iran is able to make indirect hits at the US again and again and wherever she pleases, which the US cannot even respond to.

Don't worry if the message has not been heard - it will echo and reverberate as many times as necessary, until the US has heard the message loud and clear and changes its behaviour correspondingly. It could even perhaps be said that it is the echo of the voice of Soleimani.

The US has snookered itself. Slowly but surely, it will be forced to retreat from the Middle East before it is quietly decimated at every turn.

Posted by: BM | May 25, 2019 7:24:56 AM | 64

So moving forward then - - - what is the salution to this never ending circular paradox ?
The paradox that 99% of us public are victems of at the hands the 1% ?
The paradox that courses the endless circular arguments right here right now ! Blah blah blah
You all know the answer ! Don’t you ? But hardly enyone will name it !
Go on then i’ll say it. Take out the 1% (note the deliberate vagueness of that statement)
And let’s all go home.
Stop bickering amongst your selve. There’s work to be done.

Posted by: Mark2 | May 25, 2019 7:56:01 AM | 65

HW--
" You can check if your link is going to disrupt the thread by clicking PREVIEW before you post your comment. If it is disruptive it will disrupt the PREVIEW"

Preview shows fine with long links using win 10 and Firefox on my old machine.

Posted by: arby | May 25, 2019 9:08:14 AM | 66

ADKC @62

Your smug and obnoxious comment was directed at Karlof1 ...

You are shooting the messenger here. My comment was not smug and obnoxious it was cogent and biting. Because it reveals a truth that people would like to ignore.

... you appear not to be conscious that you can behave in a way that echoes the duopoly ...

Because I made an example of karlof1's faith in establishment mechanisms to change systemic problems?

Vets are victims as well.

All dupes are victims. ISIS recruits are victims too.

Anyone that truly sympathizes with the victims will want to take effective action instead of banging their head against the establishment-provided wall.

When I looked into the Occupy movement I found that many of the main organisations comprising the movement were now funded by Open Societies Foundation (Soros) ... if Occupy was an independent movement (which I doubt) it has since been co-opted.

Maybe that's true. I haven't looked into them for years. I just noted that they were taken down (forcibly removed from protest sites around the nation) because they couldn't be co-opted. But they may have been co-opted since then.

I would imagine that many millions of Americans are disturbed by the outcome of their elections but they will vote again and then they will consider the outcome and then....who knows?

And millions of them will wring their hands about broken vets and poverty, etc pretending that they actually DID SOMETHING about those things by voting.

The gilet jaunes voted in the last French elections, they will vote in the next, but they will continue to protest ...

They will continue to protest because elections don't work to change a rigged electoral system.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Democracy works! propaganda is effective because it's a truism. The devil is in the deliberately-obscured details. It DOESN'T work when third parties are suppressed, the press is compromised, and fundraising is primary. Changing this rigged system is virtually impossible by voting alone.

The establishment pushes democracy works! propaganda because channeling discontent into ineffective voting works for THEM.

Note: The Imperial Presidency is a special case. The position is so powerful that a democratic choice is not allowed.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2019 9:56:17 AM | 67

Very nice posting.
Interesting how us incompetence is becoming so apparent.
It is very disorienting to try to understand an amoral word; after all, everybodies interests are different. I think maybe that is way it may fail. Imagine if it were to succeed in global domination - it being the global oligarcy.

Posted by: jared | May 25, 2019 10:00:34 AM | 68

Iran always gets even.
The October 1983 Marine Barracks bombing which killed hundreds of US servicemen has been blamed on Iran-supported Hezbollah, but the preceding events are never recounted in the US press accounts, including the 35th anniversary event last October when Trump spoke:

. . .In 1983, roughly 1,800 Marines were in Beirut to keep the peace in a nation torn apart by civil war. Terrorists had bombed the U.S. Embassy earlier that year, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans. . .The [October] attack was carried out by Hezbollah, which Iran was instrumental in founding a year earlier to advance its radical agenda, and remain its main patron today. And we are doing a big number on Iran today, in case you haven’t noticed. . .

wiki
On June 6, 1982, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) initiated Operation "Peace for Galilee" and invaded Lebanon in order to create a 40 km buffer zone between the PLO and Syrian forces in Lebanon and Israel.[17][18][19] The Israeli invasion was tacitly approved by the U.S., and the U.S. provided overt military support to Israel in the form of arms and materiel.[20] The U.S.' support for Israel's invasion of Lebanon taken in conjunction with U.S. support for Lebanese President Bachir Gemayel and the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) alienated many.[21] Bachir Gemayel was the legally elected president, but he was a partisan Maronite Christian and covert associate of Israel.[22] These factors served to disaffect the Lebanese Muslim and Druze communities. This animosity was made worse by the Phalangist, a right-wing, largely Maronite-Lebanese militia force closely associated with President Gemayel. The Phalangist militia was responsible for multiple, bloody attacks against the Muslim and Druze communities in Lebanon and for the 1982 atrocities committed in the PLO refugee camps, Sabra and Shatila by Lebanese Forces (LF), while the IDF provided security and looked on. . .

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 25, 2019 10:02:30 AM | 69

The US already has dozens of combat air squadrons in the Middle East here and now is going to send one more "amid Iran tensions," big whoop.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 25, 2019 10:35:22 AM | 70

If you are looking for a massive all at once deployment of troops to the region that is not going to happen. If you are looking for a boots on the ground invasion of Iran that is not going to happen either. This is going to be a series of slow roll events with terrorist actions blamed on Iran in the Persian Gulf that threatens the world supply of oil and an ever increasing deployment of US troop in the region around the Persian Gulf to secure the Sunni nations in fear of Iran.

Iran will strike US assets that they can reach slowly and deliberately through their proxies as not to provoke a full confrontation but to weaken the US community in the region, primarily in Iraq and Syria. I am sure Iran does not want a full on confrontation with the US but neither will they back down if one comes. The majority of their land to land missile systems are not as accurate as our systems so they are at a disadvantage in this type of war.

The US will ring the Sunni shores of the Persian Gulf region with patriot batteries, missile sites, and air/naval bases slowly as the backers of this policy do not want to produce a market crashing war prior to their hopes of getting Trump in for a second term. I suspect that the 120,000 figure and more might be nearly achieved in spurts of deployment over time.

I also suspect that the other party may have other ideas and it is imperative to these policy planners they get Trump another term. That will only happen with a opposition candidate that implodes as I see a massive democratic turnout. He can do war without Congress approving.

When the US finally gets its wish it will be primarily an air war and missile barrage extended over a long period of time to demolish Iran and set it back a century. That will not be achieved until they are ready and that will take time. I mean a ready defensively ring for Iran's neighbors and ready for the ensuing crash economically as well as ready for the political fallout that the high oil prices that will precede an economic crash that is sure to follow their war.

Taking control over Venezuela's energy supply and rebuilding the sector would go a long way to soften that blow and produce huge profits. That may be a bridge too far for them as they just do not have those old organizational abilities of the '60's.

Posted by: dltravers | May 25, 2019 10:47:03 AM | 71

milomilo @57: JR pushing “Fake Erdo Coup” narrative

I appreciate your following my comments regarding Erdogan. I'm not the only one that's wary about Erdogan but I was probably the most cynical. From time to time I remind people that:

> Erdogan willingly joined the conspiracy against Syria (and is still anti-Assad);

> Erdogan supported ISIS;

> the coup-attempt turned out nicely for both Erdogan and USA as Erdogan got to shirk Russian sanctions and USA got to cozy up to the Kurds (which subsequently led to the US-SDF occupation of northeastern Syria).


Of course, these and similarly concerning facts don't mean that the coup was fake but they warrant some degree of skepticism about Erdogan's "turning east".

With recent developments, we seem to be getting close to a point where Erdogan must show his true colors. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2019 10:56:11 AM | 72

There is some sense in the universe...

Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg is blasting President Donald Trump for “chest-thumping militarism” and warned that rising tensions between the U.S. and Iran “could very quickly get away from this president.” . .The South Bend, Indiana mayor and Afghanistan War veteran criticized the Republican president just hours after the Pentagon said that 1,500 additional U.S. forces and firepower are headed to the Middle East as the specter of potential conflict with Tehran increases. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 25, 2019 10:56:53 AM | 73

Saw the discussion related to voting, or not, and thought I'd post something written last night for another forum. First time poster here, altho not a first time poster. Sorry for the length, make of it what you will...

[off topic and way too long - rest deleted - b.]

Posted by: Spanky | May 25, 2019 11:24:26 AM | 74

We would be best served by conscripting and deploying John Bolton to Iran without support troops and our apologies for all the good that he has brought to the region. He seems to really believe we should have a presence there more strongly than anyone else so he should be the one to make it so.

Posted by: John Notbolton | May 25, 2019 11:40:49 AM | 75

The war with Iran is not going to happen. Russia, China will not allow it. Slowly, but steady American troops are going to be pushed out of the Middle East. It is starting in Iraq. Iraqis want to buy S-400 from Russia, pass a law to oust US occupation troops from its territory. Israel is not going to cause too much trouble , because they know that the Patriot will not stop all Iranian missiles.

Posted by: Friar Ockham | May 25, 2019 1:02:27 PM | 76

Spanki 85

Very well written and thought.

How can the People devise a way that will count their voices post elections?

For the time being, the Constitution leaves no way out of the system. I may permit
Congress to impeach a President but will not rid the People from the leeches that
prioritise an alien agenda at the expense of the People.

How does the People get rid of this highjacked system, and establish a new one?

Posted by: CarlD | May 25, 2019 1:08:17 PM | 77

@ 85

The 1787 constitutional convention was a counter-revolutionary coup. It was convened under false pretenses (the delegates told their voters they were only going to tweak the Articles of Confederation), then once convened the delegates quickly agreed that the Articles gave the people too much opportunity for direct democracy and the elites too little ability to concentrate power and embark on continental imperialism. Hamilton and Madison were quite explicit about that in the Federalist papers.

The purpose of the constitution is power concentration and imperialism, nothing more or less. Its version of electoralism was designed from the start to be nothing but a facade of democracy, to fool the rubes. Meanwhile the Articles had worked just fine for anyone who was not an aspiring imperialist.

As for the Bill of Rights, although Hamilton raged against the idea with great disdain and contempt, the framers had to throw it in as a sop in order to get enough states to ratify the constitution.

So there's the history of your fake "democracy". Electoralism, the fast-food consumerist version of political participation, has never been anything but part of this fraud, though neoliberalism has greatly refined it.

Posted by: Russ | May 25, 2019 1:11:37 PM | 78

Just as US Americans and their Government love fetuses, they love veterans.

They love them - provided they do not require any significant financial support. They are loved with with well-wishing, thoughts and prayers, thankfulness for their service and broad spectrum patriotic fervor.

None of these, of course, have any tangible value. They're conceptual, so they're provided abundantly for free.

Remember when the football player was kneeling; and so many good folks posted their pictures with the flag behind them, proclaiming, "I stand for this".

Awesome.

Posted by: fastfreddy | May 25, 2019 1:13:46 PM | 79

I posted a long article on this a few days back here is still long but shorter answer to be pondered.
Spanky @ 85.. <= the part of your post that begins with the indented words is not from the US Constitution..
We hold these truths to be self-evident, and ends in ..for their future secruty is from the 1776 version of the Declaration of Independence.. (only two persons signed both the Declaration of Independence (DI) and the 1788 constitution of the United States (COUS). because none, nada, not any, of the intentions of the Declaration of human rights embodied within the DI were intended to be made a part of the COUS. The COUS was an anti democratic coup.. it was a second revolution, it purpose was to destroy the real victory gained by humanity in the original American Revolution which denied British Rule (The DI established that the fault of civil governments has always been that such civil governments are the creations of mankind; created by man with designs to extract from each of those to be governed the individual sovereignties (right to life, liberty, and to purse happiness, and their right to travel (UN mandate) and their right of self determination (that is to decide for themselves who and how they shall be governed) of the masses. Man created governments are created to allow a few to control the masses,but our Maker denied such governments certain powers. According to the Declaration of Independence, mans' governments always fail to recognize the personal needs and individual sovereignty that our Creator bestowed upon each of us humans. But the Declaration of Independence demands that any government from 1776 forward, to be legitimate, must actually be constituted only in full subordination to rights inalienable by governments of mankind. Mans rights are far superior to any right of a civil government no matter its form, and neither mankind or a government can separate mankind for those rights.. The COUS came about, just like the Feb and Oct. revolutions in Russia in 1919 as a take over coup designed to quash human right recognition. The COUS was a counter revolution denying to Americans the benefits of the removal of British Authority and replacing it with post British Aristocratic authority..
Eleven presidents elected by Americans created independent America, the USA has appointed or elected the rest of the them.
the men who led our nation from British bondage.. were
Samuel Huntington *Connecticut March 2, 1781 - July 10, 1781 4 months, 8 d. resigned 1st
Thomas McKean * Delaware July 10, 1781 - November 4, 1781 3 months, 24 d.
then after the formal signing of the AOC, the leaders that made America (not the USA) great were..
John Hanson (Nov 5 1781 - Nov 3 1782) Elias Boudinot (Nov 4 1782 - Nov 2 1783)
Thomas Mifflin (Nov 3 1783 - Nov 29 1784) Richard Henry Lee (Nov 30 1784 - Nov 22 1785)
John Hancock (Nov 23 1785 - Jun 5 1786) Nathaniel Gorham (Jun 6 1786 - Feb 1 1787)
Arthur St. Clair (Feb 2 1787 - Jan 21 1788) Cyrus Griffin (Jan 22 1788 - Apr 30 1789)

No one seems to understand this? <=that during the 13 intervening years between the declaration of independence and the establishment of a Republic in America (named the USA and defined in the COUS by the Bankers of England, 1789) ... Americans enjoyed a real, true, and ongoing democracy.. ( Loss of the control over Americans was too much for the British Bankers and their corporate traders, slavers and robbers; they resolved to reimpose some form of corporate rule over America, <=it took them 13 years to accomplish =>terminating and ejecting freedom and democracy from America<= in 1789 they imposed by ratification, not armed rebellion the COUS, at that moment=>democracy degenerated to what could be salvaged from a Republic. It took the bankers 13 years but they finally managed to reestablished Aristocratic City of London Banking oversight control over America and the Americans that constituted its economic strength. The ratification of the COUS in 1789 stuck a knife in democracy.... It separated the governors from the governed. The governed were left with no say, and even today only 3 votes [2 senators, and 1 house member =each Art 1 persons every few years. Also big time to_do over vote for Article II POTUS and his sidekick is trumped by the Electoral college, no matter the popular vote.

Posted by: snake | May 25, 2019 1:36:07 PM | 80

It's a process. The War with Iran is right on schedule. First, break the treaty. Second, embargo Iran. Third, declare them a terrorist state. Forth, claim threatening provocations. Fifth, deploy more assets. Sixth, skirmish on neutral territory. Seventh, stage a false flag operation. Eighth, reveal evidence of weapons of mass destruction under development. Ninth, start bombing.

All of this takes at least 18 months to deploy. The goal is to build up public sentiment for war with repeated propaganda that ramps up over time. We are still at least 10 months away from Shock and Awe. Enjoy the good times while they last.

Posted by: RenoDino | May 25, 2019 1:36:30 PM | 81

Happy Memorial Day weekend from the Army.

https://reason.com/2019/05/25/the-army-asked-how-serving-impacted-lives-so-people-shared-stories-of-the-high-cost-of-war/

Posted by: KC | May 25, 2019 1:51:18 PM | 82

The real story of the thirteen plucky colonies throwing off the yoke of British imperialism is actually pretty simple. It was one bunch of establishment elite keeping all the loot for themselves instead of sharing it with the King. [1] The King told the colonists not to expand past the Appalachian Mountains. The colonists told the King to stuff it, expanded west, and killed anyone who resisted.

It's the same story we see today. Issue diktats and kill anyone who resists. Only now it's being played out on the other side of the planet.


[1] USA has been ruled by corporations right from the start: "The Massachusetts Bay Colony was founded by the owners of the Massachusetts Bay Company" (Wikipedia)

Posted by: Trailer Trash | May 25, 2019 2:06:55 PM | 83

KC | May 25, 2019 1:51:18 PM | 92:

Surprised the Army allowed those comments to be posted.

Posted by: Ian | May 25, 2019 2:39:48 PM | 84

@ Trailer Trash | May 24, 2019 10:46:48 PM | 50

In the late 1990s my nephew told me it was human nature to kill and he wanted to do it legally, so he joined the Marines. I'm sure they were happy to have him. Uncle Sam sent him to Fallujah to pacify the natives. He didn't succeed, but he did see a bunch of fellow soldiers die. Somehow he survived the carnage, more or less.
__________________________________________

My curiosity is piqued by "... more or less". Even if the overall mission didn't succeed, did your nephew's wish to legally kill come true? Whether it did or not, did his experience change or confirm his view of "human nature"?

I'm reminded of Chris Hedges' book, War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.

Posted by: Ort | May 25, 2019 2:42:02 PM | 85

donkey wastes our time on a witch-hunt in which he can't even get the facts straight.

So sad.

FYI Here's my summary of concern about Craig Murray.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2019 3:34:00 PM | 86

KC @92
Thanks for that reality kc ! Respect

Posted by: Mark2 | May 25, 2019 4:42:20 PM | 87

@donkeytale @jackrabbit

I am sick of the pissing contest you both engage in. It disrupts the comments on this site.
If either one of you again engages in such he will be banned without further warning.
I deleted most of recent nonsense you spewed against each other.
STOP IT NOW.

@all
The number of off topic comments has (again) increased above my threshold.
I will again generously delete such comments and ban the respective authors.

Posted by: b | May 25, 2019 6:01:33 PM | 88


Nicely done.

Posted by: JOHN CHUCKMAN | May 25, 2019 6:05:10 PM | 89

Thanks b...it was getting tedious scrolling past the volume

I admit to being OT occasionally and suggest more Open Threads because your "keep up with the new" audience seems to have a problem going back to the last Open thread if it is more than a few days old.....just throwing out my observations and thoughts....thanks for all your efforts!!!!

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 25, 2019 7:20:14 PM | 90

@ snake 80
Thanks for that background. I bristle every time I see "constitutional rights" as if these characters had a right to define our basic human rights.
Some have said that the Declaration of Independence is the spirit of America and the Constitution describes the government to guarantee these rights which of course hasn't worked out.
The Constitution itself doesn't mention human rights. The first eight amendments mention a few, and then comes a totally forgotten and disregarded back-handed reference to other rights in Amendment Nine: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 25, 2019 11:22:48 PM | 91

The US has been successful in turning India away from Iran, stopping all oil shipments. This has encouraged Iran to abandon India and get closer to Pakistan and China. This might include a connection between Iran's Chabahar port, until now an India project, with Pakistan's Gwadar port which is a key part of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor.
It's described here in "Iran resets its foreign policy calculus."

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 26, 2019 12:01:51 AM | 92

@psychohistorian #10 - I think it would be more plausible to regard the start of the fighting as the April 12th Incident, or the Shanghai Massacre, April 12, 1927.

Posted by: Procopius | May 26, 2019 8:07:48 AM | 93

b

My apologies, did not mean to offend. Was long and not directly related to your OP. However, and with your kind indulgence would appreciate being able to answer a few replies to it...


CarlD @77

Thank you for the compliment. A short discussion follows below.


Russ @78 and snake @80

First block quote was from the DOI, second from the COUS. This was deliberate.

Moreover, do not disagree with your comments regarding the 1787 convention. But, intent was not to debate COUS per se, in relation to the myth, altho that is a valid point. Nor to decry AOC as being "better" than COUS, altho political decentralization and more democratization is certainly more desirable IMO.

Intent was to (1) describe the Myth of Democracy and how it operates politically, by voting, to provide public consent and thereby legitimacy to our governance and (2) argue that the myth is based on a logical fallacy, a Catch-22, insofar as it is impossible to not consent under the Constitution -- no matter how repressive our governance is or may become. Finally, (3) attempt to show this Catch-22 might be overcome politically by agreement among ourselves as to what specifically constitutes our withdrawal of consent.

The idea is to describe a means by which American citizens can challenge their government's legitimacy by using the Catch-22 to advantage.

Deliberately avoided attacking the Constitution directly for a simple reason -- most Americans have an affinity for it, and many have taken oaths to support and defend it. Many of those folks are natural allies.

Posted by: Spanky | May 26, 2019 1:12:24 PM | 94

@94 Spanky

Looks like we have a new Open Thread now. I'm sure your observations would be welcome there. I would like to know your viewpoints on constitutional matters.

You could be wary of posting too long a comment - not many will read something too long, because time is short for everyone. And - fortunately - b will delete what looks like a straight copy/paste of some material rather than a pithy distillation.

Maybe try some summaries? And if they get traction, you can feed more in to flesh it all out.

Posted by: Grieved | May 26, 2019 9:17:39 PM | 95

@milomilo
@jackrabbit, @peter AU

"Old MOA regulars will remember how during Erdogan coup , Jackrabbit was doing endless damage control pushing narrative that it is not the west but erdogan himself that initiate the fake coup."

You have clearly been sold the AKP line - the very point of its propaganda is revisionism!

I was there. I and the vast majority of Turks I know am very aware that the coup was 'managed' - meaning that Erdogan had prior knowledge of it or planned it and ensured it was carried out in theatrical fashion at minimum damage.
Given that Putin has not refuted claims that he had alerted Erdogan to the coup implies that there was outside planning, but clearly once Erdogan got a hold of it and it becasme nothing more than a false flag with attendent celebrity and political presence.

So much of the 'coup' has been written since, so much of the footage manipulated. so much of the timing of events re-arranged.

If you remember at the time Erdogan had only recently 'apologised' to Putin for shooting down the Russian jet. One of the key strategies was of course to use Turkey as a trojan horse in NATO - the coup has achieved just that, while at the same time increasing Erdogan's power in turkey to obscene authoritarian levels.

Regarding Turkey's role in the Syrian conflict before Russia's intervention in the Syria conflict, all that happened has been rewritten and the ongoing 'coup' (ongoing because history of the coup is still being revised/ written) has provided all the smoke screen necessary for Erdogan to admonish himself of his sins regarding Syria.

Very few educated people in Turkey (unless they are AKP cronies) believe that the coup was genuine. It was a staged red flag which allowed Erdogan to both take control of the military - destroying its power base, further his own authoritarian interests and of course remove any threat to him.

Another little known fact is that just before the coup a law was passed which no longer necessitated independent evaluation of property value before sale by the government. Meaning that a government park could effectively be sold for 1 lira. Why is this significant? Because one of AKP's first acts after the coup was to seize and later sell or lease prime military real-estate in Istanbul and Ankara!! Mafia! If you don't understand the significance of this, then prime real estate includes extensive land on the Phosphorous, includes extensive land on the Istanbul coast and loads besides. the value is staggering!! Developments and 'closures' have long since started!!
There is so much more that could be written ...

Posted by: AtaBrit | May 27, 2019 11:02:28 AM | 96

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