Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 08, 2019

Why Is Trump Designating Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps As Foreign Terrorist Organization?

After their failed coup plot in Venezuela, the Trump administration launched another crazy plan:

The United States is expected to designate Iran’s elite Revolutionary Guards Corps a foreign terrorist organisation, three U.S. officials told Reuters, marking the first time Washington has formally labelled another country’s military a terrorist group.

The White House just issued the designation (no link yet).

The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a part of the general Iranian military. It was founded after the 1979 revolution in Iran to protect the state from a coup by the regular Iranian army that served under the Shah.

With some 125,000 men during peacetime the IRGC is only about a third the size of Iran's regular military. It has a similar structure with a groundforce, a navy and an aerospace branch. The IRCG has two additional small branches that are of foreign policy interest. One is the missile force which controls Iran's medium range missiles. The other is the Quds Force, a brigade size unit with some 4,000 men trained for special operations abroad.

The IRGC size during wartime is about triple its peacetime size. Like Iran's regular army its personnal is made up of professionals, conscripts and reservists. Attached to the IRGC is the voluntary Basji force, local paramilitaries that can be called up for internal security issues. There are several endowments and charitable trusts (bonyads) with strong relations to the IRGC. They own commerical enterprises but their profits are distributed to IRGC veterans and to widows and orphans of deceased soldiers.

In 2007 the U.S. Treasury already designated the Quds Force for its "support of terrorism". It also sanctioned several enterprises that are connected to the IRGC. It is totally unclear what the designation of the IRCG as a whole is supposed to achieve. It could be a symbolic move or, as some assume, a step towards a war on Iran:

Former Under-Secretary of State and lead Iran negotiator, Wendy Sherman, said she worried about implications for U.S. forces.

“One might even suggest, since it’s hard to see why this is in our interest, if the president isn’t looking for a basis for a conflict,” said Sherman, who is director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School. “The IRGC is already fully sanctioned and this escalation absolutely endangers our troops in the region.”

Mohammad al Shabani lists additional reasons:

Mohammad Ali Shabani @mashabani - 14:36 utc - 8 Apr 2019

THREAD. Usual suspects pushed Trump to designate #IRGC as FTO. Why?
- Constrain Trump’s deal-making instincts
- Box in next US president on Iran (Dems say will rejoin JCPOA)
- Force Lebanon/Iraq into picking between Iran/US
- Force Europe to further cut whatever meager outreach
- provoke Iran to scrap JCPOA
- and, ideally, initiate military confrontation

Colonel Pat Lang likewise presumes that the move is an attempt to provoke a war:

The AUMF on terrorism has been used far and wide as a hunting license to attack any armed group that could even distantly be thought a terrorist enemy. The anti-terrorism AUMF makes such attacks legal under US law.

The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) is a law passed after the 9/11 attack that allows the president:

to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups.

In an October 2017 speech President Trump accused Iran of having supported and harbored al-Qaeda:

Iranian proxies provided training to operatives who were later involved in al Qaeda’s bombing of the American embassies in Kenya, Tanzania, and two years later, killing 224 people, and wounding more than 4,000 others.

The regime harbored high-level terrorists in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, including Osama bin Laden’s son. In Iraq and Afghanistan, groups supported by Iran have killed hundreds of American military personnel.

Trump's accusations agaimst Iran are false. Iran had nothing to do with the bombing in Kenya. After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan some family members of al-Qaeda leaders fled to Iran. They were put under house arrests and were held as hostages to prevent al-Qaeda operations against Iran.

But the facts will not matter. The designation of the IRGC as "foreign terrorist" will likely make the AUMF relevant, at least under U.S. law.

Pat Lang continues:

The official designation as "terrorist" of the IRGC which is a 125000 man army with its own navy and air force makes it legal for the US Armed Forces to attack the IRGC and its people wherever they are found and under any circumstances that may occur. It is a declaration of war.

The neocon nitwits (Pompeo, Bolton, Hannah, etc.) may think that Iran's reaction to this declaration of war will be submission to their will but IMO that is very unlikely. IMO it is more likely that the IRGC will absorb the new reality and will prepare for war with the US.

Iran and its military have long prepared for war with the United States. There will be no change in anything that its military will do.

The first and probably only retaliatory step Iran will take is to designate the U.S. military as a terrorist entity:

"If the Revolutionary Guards are placed on America's list of terrorist groups, we will put that country's military on the terror blacklist next to Daesh (Islamic State)," Heshmatollah Falahatpisheh, head of parliament's national security committee, said on Twitter.

Iran has so far shown restraint whenever the U.S. tried to goad it into a fight. It has left U.S. forces in Syria and Iraq untouched even while the U.S. and Israel attacked Iranian elements. It will not react militarily to Trump's latest provocation.

The designation of the IRGC and the counterdesignation of the U.S. military might have some tricky legal consequences. Will sailors of a U.S. Navy ship that unintentionally enters Iranian waters in the Persian Gulf and gets caught be held as terrorists? Will former conscripts of the IRGC who want to travel to the States receive a visa?

Should the U.S. attack IRGC forces abroad, Iran will likely respond by asking its foreign proxy forces, like the Hashd al-Shahbi militias in Iraq, to attack U.S. forces abroad.

Should the U.S. attack IRGC forces within Iran's borders then all bets are off. There are plenty of U.S. bases and installations in the Middle East that can be reached by Iranian missiles.

Posted by b on April 8, 2019 at 14:25 UTC | Permalink

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I really don't quite understand what they are and how the US can enforce them.
Is everyone in the world so beholden to the US?

Posted by: arby | Apr 9 2019 12:35 utc | 101

Arby 114

All modern states and system elites have completely enslaved themselves and their peoples to the economy and lifestyle based on over-produced, worthless, high-maintenance, resource-extreme globalized commodity junk. This junk economy is controlled by the US dollar, so anyone who wants the junk has to submit to US economic dictatorship to greater or lesser extents. Thus for example China still obeys US sanctions.

The only alternative within the Mammon system would be to break free of dollar hegemony and replace it with a different reserve, or with bilateral currency and barter deals. But the US has the credible mutually-assured-destruction threat to blow up the dollar, rendering all the dollar reserves held by China and others worthless. The richest elites themselves focus on gaining control of land, resources, military and paramilitary strength etc, so the dollar itself doesn't ultimately matter to them, only the use of it to enforce global economic control. All that's in addition to the threat and practice of direct military force, to the extent the US still has credible threats there. Everyone on earth knows the US has infinite tyrannical will and is constrained only by practical barriers.

Posted by: Russ | Apr 9 2019 12:52 utc | 102

Hypothetically speaking, what if a certain stateless group of actors with a reputation for leveraging their access to wealth and capital to surreptitiously infiltrate and subvert the existing power structures of nation states before destroying their culture, decimating their native populations, stripping them of assets, and then leading them into disastrous and unwinnable wars against other, previously subjugated nation states wherein the entire burden of front-line fighting and dying is placed not said infiltrators, but on the already subjugated populations, wanted to destroy the United States?

Would these actors care if Russia and the United States destroyed one another in a thermonuclear exchange, or would such an outcome serve to further a hypothetical agenda of ruling the entire planet by becoming its sole superpower? As we've seen demonstrated repeatedly over the past century, the best way to destroy a nation is not from without, but within. As such and with the past 20 years of endless war as corroborating evidence, I wouldn't anticipate rational behavior on the part of the "US" war machine.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Apr 9 2019 12:56 utc | 103

to Piotr Berman 96 and Jen 110 - I'm going to have to look for the link, but perhaps you have already read this: that Prosur, the group of South American countries including Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, and Chile - is the creation of Pinera of Chile and Duque of Colombia. Pineda is a billionaire whose brother Juan was part of the inner circle of Pinochet's henchmen. Pine's wealth initially came thru LAN, now Latam, and credit cards. Chile has several other billionaires: Luksic - controlling SQM and the Angelini family which largely owns Copec; Terpel (45% of fuel sales in colombia) and Arauco - a forestry enterprise, which in addition to chile, has offices in USA and Brazil. Arauco of course benefits hugely from the Bolsanaro presidency, which gives them access to the brazilian rain forest. See a pattern here? As George Carlin says "it's a billionaires club and you ain't in it."
Prosur, of course, is the organization which just about tripped over its tie scrabbling to "recognize" Guido. I was about to say they're virtually in heat over Pense, but of course they're all boys so maybe in rut is a better term.
I was surprised by Pinera's actions although I guess I shouldn't be. I thought he was something of a law and order guy - which apparently he is: the law of money. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as china is a large trade partner with chile and peru.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 9 2019 13:20 utc | 104

@ Circe @52 "Trump was Chosen to deliver victory to (economic) Zionism(EZ), the most dangerous ideology since WWII." Truer words h\n appeared on MoA. But what is this "most dangerous ideology" that no one seems to what to recognize or understand? To understand one starts with capitalism (Capitalism depends on un_corrupted Armed rule making structures (ARMS, the nation state) to officiate economic activity, to keep the competition for profit fair, to keep the media more or less honest, to keep the courts more or less honest, and to protect competing business from monopoly environments <-in capitalism, government is suppose to keep competition fair.
Economic Zionism depends on corrupted institutions and governments (Armed rule making structures) to remove all rules that limit competition, relies on arm-breaking methods and tries to gain control over ownership and use of all weapons, tries to get laws that deny competition (copyright, patent, law, and privatization of government), tries to block or erase laws that block power hungry, oligarch owned, wall street financed corporations from irresponsible economic activities. Basically EZ extends past corrupt government, it involves owning the governments that govern and using them to make its profits. EZ is a no holds barred, quest t/b king of the mountain, and it invites groups to form to put forth the effort needed to destroy all possible competition, and to turn ownership of everything to the members of the group. <= with Economic Zionism, governments become weaponized (leg breaker) tools ,that deny all but the few.

I believe the science of weather has allowed weather to be weaponized
The claim by several above that the floods in Iran are due to the intentional weaponized manipulation of weather may be closer to the truth than anyone here would imagine.. Many on the gulf Coast[Florida] of the USA recently experienced one of the strongest, but strangest hurricanes (reported on the millennium report also) in the history of America. There is a difference between the 527 person USA and the 350,000,000 American people the USA governs. But there there is a giant difference between the American people and the privately owned, wall street monopoly powered corporations that rule America. I think the war on everyone boils down to a private, mostly foreign, corporate war assisted by those in control of the USA government and that explains why the actions of government are so strange to the governed and seem to disregard the welfare of the governed?

Posted by: snake | Apr 9 2019 13:23 utc | 105

@111 CJ

I still firmly believe that Hillary would never have delivered what Trump has delvered for Zionism confined by the Dem Party's platform to maintain the Iran deal and adhere to the International Community's accepted legal principles on Israel, the Palestinians, Jerusalem, West Bank and Golan. She would have had to tow the Party line and that's why Trump was Chosen by Zionist elites and was pushed over the top with their help. The reason Trump invited the most prominent settler org. to all his inaugural activities is because Trump and Kushner have close ties to the prominent founder and funder of that settler organization, Lev Leviev, just one of the many Zionist elites who were backing Trump.

Trump was in a position to deliver alot, and he isn't finished delivering, and that's why he's President and Hillary is history.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 13:38 utc | 106

Yeah, Right @108

Not just soldiers killing soldiers but soldiers being killed 'cause they had the misfortune of being from a country whose political elites started an illegal war on false pretenses.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 9 2019 13:49 utc | 107

Circe @105

Yes, it's not a religion. I called it a cult. Cultists use religion as a lure and an excuse. They prey on the weak-minded and disaffected.

Is it any wonder then, that salafists and zionists, have found common cause?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 9 2019 14:02 utc | 108

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9, 2019 9:38:05 AM | 119:

Hillary would never have delivered what Trump has delvered for Zionism ... and that's why he's President and Hillary is history.

You're focus on Zionism creates a blind spot.

1) The challenge posed by Russia and China is the main driving force. Zionists benefit from the new Cold War by making the case that the entire Middle East region is threatened.

2) Stoking patriotic fervor is necessary to meet the challenge from Russia and China. This is not something that Hillary can do or wants to do. She has too much baggage to be credible.

3) Zionist support for Trump was not enough to win the Presidency. You're focus on Adelson's money is misguided. 'The game' being played is bigger than that. Both Parties get Zionist money. Trump lost because Hillary made obvious mistakes that a seasoned candidate wouldn't make. She made those mistakes because the US establishment as a whole has rallied to meet the challenge from Russia and China.

Yes, the Zionist tail wags the dog, but never forget the tail is on the business end of that dog.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 9 2019 14:21 utc | 109

Yeah Right @108

Posted by: bevin | Apr 9 2019 14:44 utc | 110

Zachary Smith @103:

I recall Hillary never was very fond of the Nuclear Deal. And I never thought Hillary and BHO were the best of buddies, either.

Yeah. Hillary's embrace of Obama's legacy is another 'tell' that she threw the election to Trump. She embraced Obama's legacy but conspired against and snubbed Sanders (who Sanders called "a friend of 25 years")? LOL. C'mon.

The JCPOA was never going to be lasting. IMO it was a delaying tactic necessitated by the failure to prevail in Syria in a timely manner.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 9 2019 14:45 utc | 111

There's another aspect of Trump's election that gets little notice: the good cop /bad cop play for Russia to return to the Western fold.

The Russians know what Hillary is all about and don't trust her. An anti-establishment nationalist could play 'good cop' in an attempt to pull Russia away from its alliance with China.

IMO that attempt culminated in Helsinki Summit of July 2018.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 9 2019 14:56 utc | 112

@108 yeah, right.. accountability - there has been none of it with regard to any of the usa's actions... they make war on iraq - no accountability still.. obama said 'we have to move on and not dwell on the past'... pompeo is an ass and the usa state dept offer up this worthless gruel 24/7.. every once and a while matt lee will challenge them on their bullshit, but all the rest of them are just stenographers for the empire who dutifully repeat the bullshit these sycophants state.. that is the state of the late great usa at this point in time... accountability... no american, and in particular an american politician has any right to even use the word.. there has been none of it coming from them for what seems like forever.. as you note in the briefing - they just make shit up and run with it.. the obedient audience are incapable of anything different.. yes and - they think people are idiots..

one fine example of some accountability in reverse is in the post @123 bevin.. canada has a modicum of accountability, up slightly from the usa..

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2019 14:58 utc | 113

funny! - just went to pat langs site and saw this Can Pompeo really be this goofy? some people in the usa get it, in spite of their toxic allegiance to amerikkka.. reminds me of the titanic and how they are going to go down with the ship..

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2019 15:01 utc | 114

If Trump wants a hot war against Iran, then he will still need Venezuelan ports and oil (the other logistic ingredient -- Brazil's northeaster coast and ports -- he already has thanks to Bolsonaro's ascendancy in January 2019).

I think he's just getting himself ahead. Venezuela is still the first -- therefore prioritary -- target.

Posted by: vk | Apr 9 2019 15:26 utc | 115

talking zionism again.. who whudda thunk it? b doesn't mention it once and the comment section is swamped with it.. wonder why that is?

one trick pony is at it again..

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2019 15:27 utc | 116

@116 SlapHappy

Putin by design or for political interests was instrumental in creating a Chabad organization rivalling the existing one and other Jewish groups in Russia and in designating a Chabad leader with close ties to Chabad's founder, Rabbi Menachem Schneerson, Rabbi Berel Lazar, Chief Rabbi of Russia. Lev Leviev a powerful figure in the Zionist movement, was the architect behind the creation of the Federation of Jewish Communities in Russia which then became the official representative organization of Russian Jews, correction Zionist organization, because Lev Leviev, who had ingratiated himself with Putin is a rabid Zionist in charge of the most powerful settler movement in Israel.

So your apocalyptic scenario doesn't account for the fact that Zionists are in fact behind the scenes both in the U.S. and Russia close to the seats of power in both countries ensuring that Zionist Americans are protected and the patron host of Zionism, the U.S., does not become embroiled in a hot war with Russia which has a large Jewish population tied to the equally large Russian Israeli settler movement in Israel and has Jewish oligarchs manning important positions in Russian industry.

Some Russian oligarchs such as Leviev, Roman Abramovich, Simon Kukes, Viktor Vekselberg, Len Blavatnik and others, not to mention the Zionist billionaires in the U.S., Adelson the most prominent as well as Israeli billionaires all friends of Netanyahu were involved in the 2016 installment of Trump to the Presidency and their investment is paying off.

Make no mistake, this was a Zionist-led operation.

Kissinger's influence was a precursor instrumental in Putin's role in the creation of the leading Chabad org and in allowing Zionists to run important industry in Russia.

That is not to say that Putin is in bed with Zionists the way Trump is since Putin hasn't done Zionists many favors in their geopolitical ambitions. It could be a case of keeping your enemies closer, it could be a means of survival and pragmatism. This odd relationship deserves scrutiny, but I'll say this, Zionists are loyal to Zionism above everything, and everyone. They are not being served by Putin as with Trump or U.S. politicians. Despite Putin's moves to gain their trust, they are not trustworthy, and will never be loyal as long as Putin holds the interests of Orthodox Christian Russians above theirs or hesitates to move, overlap them to where no daylight exists between the two as in the U.S. Putin also has the complete loyalty of the military, and that lingers as a threat to them, but regardless, Zionists will continue to bear down to change the dynamic that doesn't fully satisfy their goals. They might suspect Putin is using them only as insurance, and maybe he's not. It's hard to tell. Maybe Trump was supposed to be the catalyst to draw Putin fully into the Zionist fold...correction, hold.

It's an inscrutible relationship Putin has with Zionists requiring ongoing scrutiny.

So your scenario appears implausible under the present circumstances, unless there's another mass exodus of Jews from Russia.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 16:09 utc | 117

James darling; the post is about Iran. Anything that harms Iran is candy to the Zionists. Lots of ponies in the same circus.

Posted by: Miss Lacy | Apr 9 2019 16:12 utc | 118

Oh, and the inscrutible Putin dynamic with Zionists I described above will become much more transparent when Iran is targeted for war. We'll see what position Putin takes then. The fact that Putin has allowed Israel to pound Iranian troops and Iranian military installations in Syria, when Iran fought alongside Russia remains a suspect head scratcher.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 16:19 utc | 119

It used to be the case that declaring whom/what a terrorist organisation, by the US, was the Prelude to some action (or planned actions that never materialised) or at the lowest level was a move to signal that entity is to be shunned careful USA is watching you! (Sanctions.. similar.. thinking Iran here specifically.)

Trump is unwittingly, or no, making a mockery of all these procedures. The posturing becomes merely symbolic, theatre that isn’t even entertaining, a wide-eye wowser for the chattering classes, divorced from what happens on the ground. I wrote right away nothing would happen with the Venez. cartoonish effort by Random Guy-do, and such has proved to be the case, though the story is not over of course, but it isn’t going anywhere fast.

The US is not going to invade, militarily, Iran or Venezuela. Trump (or rather Pence, imho an idiot) can declare cartoon characters to be Presidents, or parts of national armies of other countries to be ‘terrorists’ and then what? Nothing.

What then of credibility and the subservience, pliable attitudes, demanded? It signals that there are two levels, a) the public posturing mainly for the gallery of citizens at home, to be bamboozled, impoverished, and divided, b) other.. and though that in Intl. political moves is always the case, one needs to take care the gap is not too wide.

Perhaps all this can be seen as the dying twitches of a falling Empire, which might be optimistic. However, what I see is the USA searching for a new model, a new way forward, with internal strife among the PTB blocking efforts and positive (for the US) outcomes.

Individual position/greed/control of small sectors, of some many millions of dollars, or more, as well as the capitalist ethos — prevent it.

For the rest of world the question is, will the USA accept a more minor role, off the hegemon throne, a country amongst many others, etc.? Or will it launch Nuclear war?

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 9 2019 16:22 utc | 120

Trump aren't chosen. Democrat just ran terrible campaign championing the least popular candidates they had coupled with open and established mismanagement under their belt. Trump winning because he talks like the opposition, are never part of the establishment, and he speak about some real albeit misrepresented problem the US had.
Ironically the electorate who supported him no longer believe the government so much that they didn't even bother trying to find out his tax return. A guidepost to determine whether one elect a honest fair person as their president or a lying corrupt individual. Further they don't believe MSM so much that they ignore Trump prior history where he's a well known imbeciles with multiple bankruptcy under his belt.

Anyway it would be interesting to see what's the result of the Israeli election and how Bibi's opposition would react if he do win. His corruption case are pretty much established with hard fact.

Posted by: HW | Apr 9 2019 16:27 utc | 121

@128 vk

Trump's not stupid. War with Iran will come with his second term. For now, he will focus mostly on Venezuela, bringing down socialism and gaining creds on that endeavor to take him into a second term with the confidence scored and use that momentum and the Venezuelan supply to then take on Iran.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 16:27 utc | 122

Trump has just given the Israelis a green light for a false flag attack on a US vessel near Iranian territorial waters. It can then stand back and let the US do the heavy lifting to destroy Israel's main enemy (plus guarantee Nutty's re-election and his get-out-of-jail-free card).

Posted by: Yonatan | Apr 9 2019 16:31 utc | 123


As much as it almost makes me laugh/cry to say this, I wish I shared your optimism. While it does remain to be seen, I have a sinking feeling that the next war - the one this death cult has been planning for more than a century - will be the last one.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Apr 9 2019 16:39 utc | 124


canada has a modicum of accountability, up slightly from the usa.

It appears not for long. Canada is about to get a government in lock step with the upcoming program. So keep with your blinders and putting down the necessary discussion of the forces that remove Democratic options. You make yourself the perfect tool.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 16:43 utc | 125

@134 HW

Democrat just ran terrible campaign championing the least popular candidates they had coupled with open and established mismanagement under their belt.

Which begs the question: Can the DNC be that stupid, or did they help Trump get chosen? Good question to put to Wasserman Schultz.

The Dem campaign slogan should have been: Save Israel, vote Trump.

There is no democracy where Zionism rules. It's a money'd rigged farce.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 16:54 utc | 126

@ miss lacy and circe... new thread up.. i'm sure you can make that one about zionism too!! have fun with that...

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2019 17:35 utc | 127

People should never forgot General Wesley Clark's seven countries in five years revelation, for those that may not know, back in 2011 Clark gave an interview with Amy Goodman and revealed that not even a week after 911 he was in the Pentagon and they had already drawn up a plan to invade 7 countries "Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran" since that time in 2001, the US has attacked all of those countries, except for Iran. So clearly there is an driving entity within the US that keeps driving towards a conflict with Iran and it has been very successful in initiating those conflicts it wants (although not in achieving victory or peace). The failures in Iraq and Syria may have delayed their original time plan, but everything we see in the US government and in the US media reinforces that the US will get this new war. First they have the US courts declare Iran liable for the 911 attacks, they cancel the Iranian nuclear deal, they blame Iranian backed militias for killing US troops, they organize terror attacks against the Iranian state and now they declare the Revolutionary guards terrorists (to give them a "legal" fig leaf to justify attacks against Iranian presences in the middle east). most likely we'll see further escalations in the near future, I imagine the Syrian-Iranian port deal that was just signed will be targeted in the near future either by US or Israeli missiles. Just like the Iraq faked WMDs, the US media will promote a drip, drip of false accusations against Iran until the average American thinks war with Iran is necessary and once again the American media will mindlessly ask once again "why do the Iranians hate us?"

Posted by: Kadath | Apr 9 2019 17:52 utc | 128

So "james" is either ignorant of reality or attempting to distract from it. Good to know.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Apr 9 2019 18:02 utc | 129

Even facing massive corruption charges, Netanyahoo is still running neck to neck with his major opponent in exit polls. Anyway, doesn't matter who wins, they're all lunatics there.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 9 2019 20:22 utc | 130

@Mike of Pasadena #85

> The headwaters are in Syria and Lebanon.

Syria has headwaters? I though they borrow rivers from Turkey - and they actually had tensions of which part of water Turkey would consume themselves.

> What if some terrorist bastards dumped large quantities of dioxin, or some similar chemical into the Jordan river? It would wipe out Israeli agriculture!

Hardly so.

Someone would be hit badly, true. But he would spread the news. Others would stop watering plants for a day or two. And that is how it would end.

Granted, if "some bastard" could be coninuously dumping poison into Jordan for as long as a week to keep all Jordan river fatally poisoned for 24x7, then perhaps it WILL be a hit. (But Jews would start international fundraising i think. Afterall it would be about real issues, not some Yemen deplorables or Palestinian subhumans).

If "some bastard" woulkd manage to keep all waters of Jordan fatally poisoned for 24x30 - then perhaps agriculture of Israel is back to the 1940-s level. And perhaps few millions or dozens of millions people around Jordan too. But who would care about people if plants are in danger, right?

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2019 22:24 utc | 131

> Do dimwits like Pompeo actually believe their nonsense, or do they assume that their audience are idiots?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 9, 2019 1:19:56 AM | 96

No, they assume their audiences are acocmplices, "passive neocons".

Though this last guy seems to be kind of Captain Obvious slightly late to the party

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 9 2019 22:32 utc | 132

here's the other daily press propaganda briefing from yesterday... same bullshit, different gofers delivering the arsenic..

bullshit like this, where they fail to mention the usa's central role in destroying iraq and turning it into a failed state...
" What I can tell you is the United States has a strong interest in an Iraqi Government that is strong and stable and sovereign and free from malign external influence. The record of Iranian involvement in the region is not a promising one. Look at Syria, look at Yemen, look at Lebanon. We have an interest in making sure that Iraq does not take that road and is able to stand on its own two feet as a strong and prosperous country in its own right."

if you are interested in reading these kinds of lies and obfuscations - see the link above... it's filled with them..

Posted by: james | Apr 9 2019 23:30 utc | 133

For what it's worth, the Southfront site has another explanation for President Dunce's declaration.

US And Israel Prepare For Coordinated Campaign Against Iranian Force

An immediate attack on Syria makes a lot of sense. The pretense would be that only the Revolutionary Guards were the targets, but we would immediately learn those Iranians were nearly always at Syrian Army and Air Force bases the apartheid Jewish state wants destroyed. Convenient!

The US has been running out of excuses to stay in Syria, so why not create a brand new set of terrorist targets there? Especially since nobody with a 3-digit IQ believes the "Assad Gassed His Own People" BS anymore.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 9 2019 23:32 utc | 134

The Iranians should start using some of those US sniper rifles found in Syria and check how hard it is to break the US terrorists morale in the M.E imho.

Posted by: Per | Apr 9 2019 23:55 utc | 135

Looks like Netanyahoo is set to rule the lunatic state again. Trump is the gift that keeps on giving and NETANYAHOO. Next up IRAN.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 10 2019 4:50 utc | 136

Actually, Netanyahoo isn't the only one. Trump kippah is all the rage.

The REAL Donald J. Trump.👎

Posted by: Circe | Apr 10 2019 5:28 utc | 137

"@ miss lacy and circe... new thread up.. i'm sure you can make that one about zionism too!! have fun with that...

Posted by: james | Apr 9, 2019 1:35:41 PM | 127"

As I am sure you will follow those around whom you disagree with and, for some insane reason, will be unable to ignore nor reply to them.

I don't think there's a single post Circe has made where you or another has attacked them, most disappointingly simply pointing out their views instead of refuting or adding your own - at least to any meaningful extent to outweigh this behavior.

I imagine you'd spark more discussion and people will take you more seriously if you don't appoint yourself the arbiter of what is and what isn't OT or 'permitted discourse,' so to speak. People are smart enough to make up their own minds.

It reflects poorly on you and even if you make good points, many (potentially myself) will tend to ignore you as result, which I imagine you would feel isn't what you're here for.

Add something to a discussion. Don't take away from it or distract from it further. You aren't a moderator. You and Circe are both just commentators with their own viewpoints and worldviews.

I can't believe this is hard to understand for some.

Posted by: GeorgeSmiley | Apr 10 2019 8:36 utc | 138

@ 131

"Someone would be hit badly, true. But he would spread the news. Others would stop watering plants for a day or two. And that is how it would end."

Dioxin is a persistent organic pollutant and keeps giving its goodness for a long, long time. One of most astounding things about this astounding time is how many people actually think putting poison in the water and on the food is a good idea, or ar any rate no big deal. History will regard it as the greatest mass insanity ever.

As for Zionist agriculture based on massive expenditure of fossil fuels, fossil water, high-intensity chemicals, it'll hardly need "terrorists" to cause its collapse. Just like for all other societies which exalt agriculture based on turning the Earth into one big desert while still expecting to grow food on it (IOW all Western societies and everywhere the West is aped), the Zionists are their own best self-terrorists and self-destroyers.

Posted by: Russ | Apr 10 2019 11:30 utc | 139

@ Arioch | Apr 9, 2019 6:24:48 PM | 131

'But who would care about people if plants are in danger, right?'
Even cannibals - at least those with the brains God gave a goose - do care a great deal about the well being of plants. After all, no plants -> no food -> no cannibals.

2,3,7,8-TCDD: Half life ~450 years under atmospheric conditions.

@ Russ | Apr 10, 2019 7:30:32 AM | 139


Posted by: Hmpf | Apr 10 2019 15:05 utc | 140

@138 george... i make ongoing observations and i comment on them from time to time...others can take what you want and leave what they don't.. turning threads into an endless conversation on zionism seems counter productive to me.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 10 2019 15:44 utc | 141

Hmpf 140

It's a bizarre concept: "What if some terrorist bastards dumped large quantities of dioxin, or some similar chemical into the Jordan river?"

As we speak industrial agriculture and all other industrial sectors, the military etc. deliberately are dumping massive quantities of dioxin and "similar chemicals" into many rivers, lakes, the ocean, as well as suffusing much of our food and air with the poisons, and the general environment. It's a significant cause of the ongoing mass extinction event. De jure terrorists would have to up their game by many orders of magnitude even to compete. Yet how often are CAFOs, plantations, factories, military bases etc. called launch sites for terrorist attacks? That's exactly what it all is.

Posted by: Russ | Apr 10 2019 17:41 utc | 142

Russ @142--

Seems I wrote similar words over 20 years ago in one of my collegiate essays. Has only escalated since.

The following is a fitting epitaph from Mike Hudson on the "Western System":

"Once you inherit wealth, you tend to think that it’s naturally yours, not part of society’s patrimony for mutual aid. You see society in terms of yourself, not yourself as part of society. You become selfish and increasingly predatory as the economy shrinks as a result of your indebting it and monopolizing its land and property. You see yourself as exceptional, and justify this by thinking of yourself as what Donald Trump would call 'a winner,' not subject to the rules of 'losers,' that is, the rest of society. That’s a major theme in Greek philosophy from Socrates and Plato and Aristotle through the Stoics. They saw an inherent danger posed by an increasingly wealthy landholding and creditor ruling class atop an indebted population at large. If you let such a class emerge independently of social regulation and checks on personal egotism and hubris, the economic and political system becomes predatory. Yet that has been the history of Western civilization." [My Emphasis]

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 10 2019 22:12 utc | 143

karlof1 143

That sums up the history of all civilization, and most of all the Western Mammon civilization: Pure free riding on the freely available bounty of the Earth, every step of the way being as deliberately wasteful and vandalistic as possible, basically always a slash-and-burn mentality toward literally everything including one's own children, let alone the rest of humanity.

And now the bounty is at an end. By which I mean, the amount of daily waste and destruction needed to keep this civilization going and metastasizing. Yet even now there would still be plenty for a people willing to live ecologically. That's part of why the civilization is launching a final campaign to wipe out all remaining indigenous and traditional peoples, as well as any possible future ecological basis for such ecological societies. Like Hitler in the bunker the berserkers of modern civilization are trying to kill everything with them as they die themselves.

Posted by: Russ | Apr 11 2019 10:44 utc | 144

"@138 george... i make ongoing observations and i comment on them from time to time...others can take what you want and leave what they don't.. turning threads into an endless conversation on zionism seems counter productive to me.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Apr 10, 2019 11:44:53 AM | 141"

I'd love to see debate or conversation. Often you preempt this certain person you dista

ste which is kind of the opposite of what youre saying. You seem to like this tit-for-tat thing. I agree in part about threads devolving into just talking about Zionism where it's not particularly relevant (in my eyes) too! But I don't say smug things in response (or BEFOREHAND) and ignore what I choose to and read what I want. I also try to weigh whether I agree on what someone is saying based on WHAT they say, not WHO they are here.

Man, I'm not trying to be rude. Your sarcasm isn't something I'll return ("thanks" - I'm sure).

Just think - if you want to add quality content and commentary - DO THAT. I care about what all people have to say, I don't have to agree with it... I don't even have to pay attention to it. Don't just moan about another's opinion over and over, it's been said by you (and one or two other so don't feel I'm targeting you specifically) so many times I posted for the first time in like a year to point it out. THIS contributes to the death of a comment section. Don't be a part of it, say what you feel. You don't have to refute or mock every single thing this person posts. You don't have to preempt it either (that's particularly egregious).

Even if I had your mindset and mimicked your behavior here, I'd realize I'd be encouraging the conversation and antagonism more by what I was doing. Food for thought. That's all man. Not trying to be a jerk here, just we all need to look in the mirror from time to time (including me).

It just becomes a back and forth NO ONE cares for except people who like that kind of drama and tension. If you REALLY can't help yourself, limit it to less than one snarky reply per thread.

Or take a look at yourself man. Do you want to add to a more personally relevant discussion? Or do you want to leave throwaway comments that are nothing of substance, just a few dismissive words.

Just food for thought. I am trying to be pleasant to you as I want to hear what YOU have to to say too. Just not this as it's not saying anything.

I'll leave it at that. I cannot engage in a tit-for-tat or ongoing fight in the comments with someone who holds an opposing view.

Posted by: GeorgeSmiley | Apr 11 2019 12:23 utc | 145

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to add that if he/she DOES make a relevant point, you'll have dismissed it out of hand without even realizing it.

Psychohistorian makes most topics about private finance, and while I agree with him more than the person you distate, if I did not the LAST thing I would do would be mock him and follow him around and preempt his entry into a thread. He may have a good point or two and I'll ignore it because I care more about the person than what they have to say.

THAT is all I'll have to say on this. I really hope you can see this doesn't come from a place of malice or the intent to embarrass you or paint you as a bad person. You CAN contribute potentially valuable info. Just.... this is not the way to do it. Feel somethings OT - bring it back on OT. No need to mock someone. OT discussion is the nature of MoA, something we are all guilty of. And when you deal with such multifaceted issues as the ones discussed here, it's almost a natural trend.

Just, take a breath. You don't even have to respond to this brother. Hell, you could ignore it! Imagine that.

Posted by: GeorgeSmiley | Apr 11 2019 12:34 utc | 146

@george... you do your part, and i'll do mine... the input will be different.. my thanks to you can be read any way you want to read it, just as your comments to me can be.. it wasn't sarcasm... unfortunately your ability to read comments and posters is not that great as i see it.. regardless of that, i appreciate the effort you put into saying everything you did...happy trails..

Posted by: james | Apr 11 2019 19:51 utc | 147

Iran possesses a strong diplomatic card against the United States. It can initiate an international campaign intended to demonstrate to world opinion, that the U.S. regime is responsible for the mass-murder of 11 September 2001, that it betrayed its own population, the victims and their families by lying to them, that it shields the criminals, and that it went to attack other countries on contrived premises.

Iran could also assemble a group of UN member states behind a resolution within the United Nations to establish an independent commission of inquiry regarding the events of 11 September 2001. Numerous governments know that 9/11 was an "inside job" by the U.S. but have not yet dared say it in public.

The evidence is overwhelming and Iran can and should use it in order to protect itself and serve humankind, including the American people, who have been deceived and betrayed by their own elite.

Posted by: Elias Davidsson | Apr 13 2019 10:29 utc | 148

Learned a lot. Thank so much for discussing this everyone!

Posted by: Nanaimo Tree | Apr 14 2019 20:22 utc | 149

Treasury's OFTI has had 4 Jews in a row heading it.
The current head, appointed by Trump, is Israeli.
in other words, dual citizen Jews, working with Israel, have been in charge of sanctions.

Posted by: Mike K | Apr 16 2019 7:29 utc | 150

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