Notre Dame On Fire - Updated
Notre Dame, the 800 years old central cathedral of Paris, is on fire.
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Here are two short videos at the beginning of the fire 1 2. The second one shows scaffolding around the 90 meter high spire above the middle of the church.
The fire began at about 19:00 local time (17:00 utc , 1:00 PM blogtime).
Church roof fires are notorious for being uncontrollable. The whole roof is likely to come down into the church and burn whatever flammable it finds inside.
Let's hope that the beautiful windows survive.
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My sincere condolences to France over this huge loss.
(Update 1:30 PM)
This video was shot some 15 minutes after the pictures and videos above. Half of the roof is already burning.
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(end update)
(update 2:00 PM) Video of the spire falling down. (end update)
(update April 16, 5:00 AM)
The fire during the night. Firefighters prevented the fire from extending into the towers.
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Despite the large fire above and the immense load only two smaller parts of the vault came down. The fire extension within the church was limited.
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At least one of the beautiful windows (diameter 12.5 meters) survived.
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The large organ is also said to be intact.
For long years the French state which owns the cathredal and the church which leases it haggled about the costs to renovate the crumbling cathedral. Now donations of hundreds of millions are flowing in. This fire may - end the end - have done something for the church that other powers cold not do.
(end update)
Some joker on Wikipedia changed the "Functional Status" of the church to "On Fire".
(We probably can't blame the neocon Géraud Araud for this but how about Macron?)
Posted by b on April 15, 2019 at 17:28 UTC | Permalink
next page »At the start of Holy Week too. Theist or atheist, this is a terrible cultural loss.
Posted by: bertrandious | Apr 15 2019 17:32 utc | 2
Officials in Paris said the fire could be linked to renovation works being carried out at the cathedral.
That's from a news story. I'll wager this was on account of some idiot in the employ of the renovation contractor. Like with the 1942 fire in the SS Normandie, there will probably be one or more government screwups involved as well. As in no sprinklers at all, or disconnected ones for the "renovation".
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 15 2019 17:50 utc | 6
During the Dreyfus Affair Anatole France said, "If I'm accused of stealing the towers of Notre Dame, I can only flee the country." But I suppose he could more plausibly be accused of setting the church on fire. We'll see who Macron accuses.
(The quote means, anyone who would make such an absurd accusation self-evidently doesn't care about truth and falsehood but is just out to get you, period. Something those who are similarly accused these days ought to keep in mind. For example those like Corbyn or Omar who are accused of being anti-semites for criticizing the Zionist state ought to forget about trying to appease such aggressors, the way Corbyn keeps pathetically trying to do.)
Even atheists admire great beauty, but cathedrals and pyramids and such always make me think of the people who really built them. I guess, in a way, such monuments really are memorials, not to 'great' leaders or deities but to those who sacrificed so much for such leaders and deities.
Posted by: dus7 | Apr 15 2019 18:17 utc | 9
pull it the talmud said
so much suffering that day so the decisions was made to pull it.
look see how the dancing tel aviver dance.
easter the event the team documented it before flying back to dimona high fiving 33ing or 666ing all the way.
them flames sure look accelerated
whatever way you spell it i smell talmudism year zero
Posted by: winston | Apr 15 2019 18:21 utc | 10
What is the chances the fire is blamed on the yellow vest?
Posted by: Dennis18 | Apr 15 2019 18:29 utc | 11
To do this work an army of artisan craftsmen is required. Inspired artisan craftsmen. Good luck finding them. Inspired supervision is also required. The bosses on this job will continue to lunch at Fouquet's.
Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 15 2019 18:37 utc | 13
yes the flames are wrong and the smoke some fires are natural some where started.
jacob brownowski from the bbc tv series the ascent of man had a job during the war making fuse fire bombs for burning cities.
civilization documenting the crowning achievements of man for the bbc after a life of secret bomb flame craft.
paris and france have fallen this just babylonian sinbull
smoke colour is wrong images look wrong accelerated chemicull
as churchill said
the adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all of them, have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
Posted by: winston | Apr 15 2019 18:51 utc | 16
"What is the chances the fire is blamed on the yellow vest?"
Posted by: Dennis18 | Apr 15, 2019 2:29:52 PM | 11
Was just thinking the same thing Dennis18, but, the day isn't over yet..
Posted by: ben | Apr 15 2019 18:54 utc | 17
@16 winston
I recommend everyone watch The Ascent of Man on YouTube, it is truly excellent.
Posted by: TJ | Apr 15 2019 19:06 utc | 19
Secretive Meeting on US ‘Military Option’ in Venezuela Reveals Key Figures of Invasion Push
Once all this murderous nonsense has finally been worn down to its inevitable conclusion, all those Venezuelans who conspired to overthrow their government with the aid of a foreign military should be put on trial for treason, and disposed of appropriately.
Posted by: AntiSpin | Apr 15 2019 19:08 utc | 20
I am French. Thank you for your condolences. What a pity!
N.B. The spire was added in the XIXth century only.
Posted by: Hervé de Tréglodé | Apr 15 2019 19:17 utc | 21
This is really sad. I assume it was just an accident. It would be more awful still if it was arson
Posted by: Alaric | Apr 15 2019 19:25 utc | 22
Well, it's right next to a river. How about getting a chopper over to bucket some water up on the roof?
It looks like they had no contingency plan for how to fight a fire at their big religious symbol.
Posted by: Bart Hansen | Apr 15 2019 19:32 utc | 23
The windows, the windows, once they go the damage is irreparable, completely, forever. The rest can be reconstructed---but the windows can never be reproduced, never. What a tragedy for France and far beyond.
Posted by: Quentin | Apr 15 2019 19:36 utc | 24
just an accident
we must assume
that must be the assumption
has to b
a failure of the collective
we
are to blame
an accident on these days exactly
on these exact days
just bad timing that is all
zero Kabbalist Revolutions
here
just natural flame actuality
yahoo could conspire on this
orson welles on this stone glory
Orson Welles, Chartres Cathedral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p67d9F9nW2Y
Posted by: winston | Apr 15 2019 19:38 utc | 25
The thing is that Macron had scheduled for today a press conference to announce measures to try to realx a bit the tensions that have shaken the country during these months...And because of the fire, he has had to cancel the event...
Due all what we know about "deep states" so far, a possibility that this could be intentional with the European elections so close, is to be considered. Only, what part would be to blame?
I am desolée too, last time in París, after passing a while watching some inline skaters doing their capers in the lateral of the square, started rainning, I decided to take refuge in Notre Dame, and as the mass was to start, eventhough I am not a practitioner, decided to stay for the service, since the chorus sounded like angels...Walking along the Sena river with Notre Dame in the distance at sunset was really an unforgettable activity...It´s astonishing how our landscapes can change from one day to the other, in a breath....
Posted by: Sasha | Apr 15 2019 19:43 utc | 26
Unfortunately the great Windows, installed in 1250, are lost.
Luckily most of the moveable artwork was apparently saved.
https://twitter.com/KoliaDelesalle/status/1117865987670364160
Nicolas Delesalle @KoliaDelesalle
Une bonne nouvelle : toutes les œuvres d’art ont été sauvées. Le trésor de la cathédrale est intact, la couronne d’épines, les saints sacrements. #NOTRE_DAME
Translated from French by
Good news: all the works of art were saved. The treasure of the Cathedral is intact, the Crown of thorns, the Holy sacraments. #NOTRE_DAME
@dus7
Just because there was overriding grandeur to a structure doesn't mean it was likely due to the backs of slaves. Notre Dame was constructed by masters of their trade, as opposed to slaves with cut stones on their backs.
Cultural losses like this or in Palmyra are immense and work to the favor of those who wish to destroy history and rootedness. Who are of course the globalists.
Dreadful loss.
Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Apr 15 2019 19:44 utc | 28
Well I guess this will be used to intensify police martial law and bring further authoritarian presents to the next yellow vest protests and if they continue to defy the one eye system that governs the world wouldn't be surprised if the effiel tower will be lit up to garner more support domestically and internationally for more fire power to guard the streets of France to of course indirectly supress the yellow vests.
Posted by: Moroccaneye | Apr 15 2019 19:53 utc | 30
What, does God live in a building? You think God cares about a building? He created the whole world, what does he care about a building? What a typical human fallacy, thinking these things we have made on earth are worth anything at all.
We have been given a pretty simple imperative, to love and care for one another. A thousand Notre Dames wouldn't make up for our failure in this regard. As even the atheists well understand, this world has devolved into utter lawlessness. Humankind eats its own flesh. Humans enslave the weak, kill without remorse, and are actively destroying the earth; this will not be tolerated much longer.
Soon the wrath of God will come upon the whole world. Truly, there is only a little time left before the destruction comes. Western society in general and the United States in particular will be utterly destroyed. Our great cities will be reduced to rubble. Famine, pestilence and disease are just the beginning of the troubles we will face.
Posted by: Eddison Flame | Apr 15 2019 19:57 utc | 31
We're reminded that nothing is permanent, that either time or tragedy will reap its toll. Lucky are those who were able to visit; I was never afforded the opportunity. Odd that we were discussing the Catholic Reconquista last night and today one of its most important icons burns. A massive heart attack for French culture and history.
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 15 2019 20:01 utc | 32
During the California fires the gubmint had a 747 water bomber (one).
Maybe it’s time they focus on practical things like such rather than ridiculous multi billion dollar naval destroyers.
Or would that be considered too populist?
Posted by: TSP | Apr 15 2019 20:03 utc | 33
I wonder who they’ll blame this on. Iran? Hezbollah? Assad? Sadly anything is possible with the neocon media.
Posted by: Alaric | Apr 15 2019 20:07 utc | 34
Anybody remember the ancient wooden church in Norway that got set on fire by some delusional satanist wanker? I like my heavy metal, but that dickhead destroyed 1.5k years of architectural history, all because he thought christians were fucked up.
I am no christian, but I have to say I love old churches, if that makes any sense. They are some of the most peaceful, ambient places humanity was capable of creating. They inspire meditation and empathy in myself.
Sorry, France...
Posted by: Dan | Apr 15 2019 20:08 utc | 35
@18 Trond
"Why did not god put out the fire?"
Free will works both ways. God doesn't work for us, He has his own things going on that we're just a part of.
b4real
Posted by: b4real | Apr 15 2019 20:09 utc | 36
I found Trump twitting almost immediately about the Notre Dame fire and giving advice to the firefighters on how to control it, in the same bad taste as the early twitting by Marco Rubio just minutes after the first sabotage at El Guri which left Venezuela in the dark for days.
I wonder whether he has something to do....What has been French government position in last NATO summit on te payement issue?
I expect already anything from these thugs...
Posted by: Sasha | Apr 15 2019 20:12 utc | 37
at Zach at #6
"Officials in Paris said the fire could be linked to renovation works being carried out at the cathedral.
That's from a news story. I'll wager this was on account of some idiot in the employ of the renovation contractor....."
absolutely!
the carelessness and idiocy of the human race is beyond belief.
I am very upset by this news. My condolences to all the people or Paris and France,
and I hope that the walls don't collapse and that the cathedral can be rebuilt in good time. with a decent sprinkler system. geez. perhaps another example of Disaster Capitalism at work
Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 15 2019 20:15 utc | 38
TJ | Apr 15, 2019 3:06:55 PM | 19
Read the book instead... Same name.
Posted by: Dan | Apr 15 2019 20:17 utc | 39
this is a hell of a site for a new luxury apartment installation. sell it to blackrock piranha ltd and pay a drop of the ocean of debt to the next bank. this "cultural" shit is overrated anyway, europe is changing and we like it that way.
Posted by: radiator | Apr 15 2019 20:23 utc | 40
@Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 15, 2019 4:15:32 PM | 38
The walls have not collapsed, fortunately, the fire is on the whole area of restoration works, it seems that the firefighters are finding it difficult to control, too much wood, I guess....
Live, by Ruptly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKKEQSPD2gM
Posted by: Sasha | Apr 15 2019 20:24 utc | 41
A great loss to the French people. I hope this was an accident.
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 15 2019 20:37 utc | 42
I don't give a shit! And if there was such thing like a God, it would be the whole United Terrorists States of America that would burn in hell!
Posted by: Made in Quebec | Apr 15 2019 20:44 utc | 43
Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 15, 2019 4:15:32 PM | 38
"I hope that the walls don't collapse and that the cathedral can be rebuilt in good time. with a decent sprinkler system. geez. perhaps another example of Disaster Capitalism at work"
Supposedly the fire is caused in the first place by incompetent "restoration" work. Quite ironic.
And now we already see lots of people looking forward to a fake "rebuilt" version. Anything to deny mortality. Same as how so few people are allowed (or allow themselves) to die with dignity. But as we see, every "intervention" just makes things worse, and never brings back what people can't naturally let go.
Have the Yellow Vests, Wikileaks and/or the Russians been blamed yet?
World leaders in shock! No such emotions when they think about the millions of innocent deaths as a result of their illegal foreign interventions.
How many places of worship have been bombed and torched by the French in MENA countries?
Sad to see an iconic building going up in flames. May it serve as a reminder of the fire that awaits Macron c.s.
Posted by: Symen Danziger | Apr 15 2019 20:56 utc | 46
@Made In Quebec
"if there was such thing like a God, it would be the whole United Terrorists States of America that would burn in hell!"
Don't worry, justice will be done. Everyone will receive a just reward.
Posted by: Eddison Flame | Apr 15 2019 20:57 utc | 47
Why did God not stop the fire?
Maybe He was trying to tell us something. Maybe it was a warning, an omen.
Posted by: lysias | Apr 15 2019 21:06 utc | 49
I cannot quote an “official” source, link, etc., but relatives in Paris just called to say there is news reporting there that there is proof the fire started in two locations at the same time.
The call was very brief for numerous reasons. I cannot find corroborating information.
Has anyone else come across this?
Posted by: NotBob | Apr 15 2019 21:06 utc | 50
Thank you Eddison Flame #31 for you reassuring advice that god will soon enact his fearsome revenge on humankind. When you next converse could you suggest he start with North America as that will have a ripple effect, trickle down even if you like, across the entire beautiful planet. And could you suggest that if he were to give us mere humans some insight into the technology to greatly increasing the energy density of batteries that would be appreciated. All said in the interests of conserving his exquisite, divine energy.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 15 2019 21:13 utc | 51
This just popped up o 4chan /b/
Probably bullshit but here we go
"ok guys I think my life is fucking over, just had the fucking worst luck ever
>work as carpenter for a swiss firm
>last week we go to Paris to do restoration job on one of the oldest and most famous churches in the world, Cathedral of Notre Dame
>started finishing up work for today, it's about 45 min left on our shift and we start to pack up
>i'm standing on one of the top floors of the scaffold, probably 60 meters from the ground
>I light a cig but manage to fucking drop it, it rolls off the edge, i'm like k whatever and grab a new cig
>This indian guy I work with stares directly at me and says "didn't you light a cig literally 10 seconds ago"
>I just say I dropped it and it fell down
>About 20 min later, some guys downstairs start yelling about a possible fire and that everyone needs to go back down for safety.
>I start to climb down and a few stories down I see shit tons of black smoke coming from somewhere bellow where I was when I dropped my cig
>within minutes after reaching ground level there are already many firemen and it's obvious the fire has already ignited something and I can see it's reached the roof level of the scaffold
>mfw I think this is my fucking fault
>mfw the indian guy knows I dropped a lit cigarette right before this happens
pic releated: this is happening right now and it's all over the news"
Posted by: lol | Apr 15 2019 21:19 utc | 52
While everything is possible, and nothing is certain at this point, this all seems very sketchy.
For weeks now there are arson attacks and other vandalism on churches, christian symbols are being attacked in France. I just read about it and saw some video reportage about it days ago.
In the report it was linked to the also growing attacks on Synagoges by Islamists.
If this is true for this attack too, then it is a targeted attack on the biggest national christian symbol of France. A declaration of civil war and in the tradition of ISIS and generally Islamistic extremists.
What this would mean as a consequence, i think everyone here can imagine.
Damn.
One small small positive thing in this sad day for France and Europe: As a German it just deeply hurts me to see the pictures. I can barely take it. And after the war in Syria, i watched so many atrocities, but this gets to me. I think i would not feel more sad when the cologne Cathedral would burn instead. And this tells about how we Europeans feel like Europeans today. How connected our subconsiousness is today. And that, in this turbulent times, is a good sign. A sign that the wars that Europe have devastated, now truely lost their basis.
And that may enable us to stand together if times will get even much darker than today. Not in a corrputed EU, but as souvereign nations action together for their common and individual good.
All the best.
Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Apr 15 2019 21:20 utc | 53
Breaking: Pompiers assure the that structure of the Notre Dame cathedral is saved!
https://twitter.com/eldiarioes/status/1117898446328029184
Posted by: Sasha | Apr 15 2019 21:24 utc | 54
That's the death of France. What a pity. fayez chergui 3
It has the hallmark of Gaddafi. His revenge was not long in coming. I can tell by the light smoke.
Leave God out of this.
Then again there is Putin for I see the flame is pure.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 15 2019 21:25 utc | 55
I have a vivid memory of my first visit to Notre-Dame. In a sprint through France when I was still very green behind the ears, my visit to Notre-Dame happened to coincide with an impressive choral sung Mass at which the President and the Republican Guard were present with lots of pomp and ceremony. Walking out at the end of the Mass, I noticed a charming little old lady not more than four feet high and smiled politely in her direction. Next thing I knew, in front of the dignitaries and well-heeled attendees filing out of the service, the feisty little woman rushed me cane waving in the air yelling in French: "Young people today--NO RESPECT!" Everyone turned around as I stood there gobsmacked and mortified. Lucky for me she didn't pursue the matter further with her cane, no doubt noticing the dread in my eyes, and retreated. Thanks to her, I cannot help but cherish that moment forever. Guess I'm a sucker for sweet little old ladies!
I'm heartbroken at the sight of the cathedral in flames.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now to the present:
Newsflash for tomorrow! A yellow vest and Palestinian keffiyeh found at the scene.
So many Iraqis paid the price for the Z-Empire's deception and nothing has changed because we dare not utter the truth. Shame on everyone who refuse to admit the truth and bless the ongoing victims and those who have the courage to speak out. If not now, then when? We are inching closer to a new kind of stealth fascism. If there is no justice, then this new fascism is already here.
Posted by: Circe | Apr 15 2019 21:29 utc | 56
@ Quentin #24
I'd have supposed the windows wouuld be the easiest thing of all. They've surely been photographed tens of thousands of time in extreme detail.
Going out on a limb here, but I'd propose repairing the remaining walls. This might be a minor matter, or a very difficult project - depending upon a lot of factors. Use them as a foundation for a new church built with modern materials. The interior ceiling might need to be redesigned. Those windows can be recreated using appropriate new metals and newly cast colored glass. Only the highest quality materials would be used - we're aiming for a ten thousand-year lifetime. Now for the key part:
Ensure nothing like this happens to the remaining old cathedrals". Make them as fireproof as possible. And damn the cost.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 15 2019 21:30 utc | 57
@ Circe #56
Surely you jest about the Palestinian item. There was supposed to be a sighting of an Iranian who dropped his briefcase. It contained his passport, a letter from Qasem Soleimani, and had traces of incendiary materials. The White Helmets are getting mighty sloppy these days.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 15 2019 21:38 utc | 58
Impresive footage...recalling that Notre Dame was part of Unesco World Heritage...thus, irreplaceable...
https://twitter.com/Russ_Warrior/status/1117850706352857089
Posted by: Sasha | Apr 15 2019 21:44 utc | 59
Subitamente invadido por uma grande tristeza. I learned beauty laying my eyes and skin on that sculpture.
Incendie à Notre-Dame: le parquet ouvre une enquête pour "destruction involontaire par incendie"
Le parquet de Paris a ouvert une enquête pour "destruction involontaire par incendie", pour déterminer les causes du violent incendie qui a ravagé la cathédrale Notre-Dame-de-Paris lundi soir. Elle a été confiée à la Direction régionale de la police judiciaire.
(auto-translate)
The Paris public prosecutor's office has opened an investigation for "involuntary destruction by fire", to determine the causes of the violent fire that ravaged the Notre-Dame-de-Paris cathedral on Monday night. It has been entrusted to the Regional Directorate of the judicial police.
Eventual criminal causes already excluded from the inquiry?
Posted by: Vasco da Gama | Apr 15 2019 21:59 utc | 60
Posted by: lol | Apr 15, 2019 5:19:09 PM | 52
Sounds a bit much, doesn't it? A cigarette dropped doesn't usually lead to a massive fire. Can happen, but there has to be a sequence unlikely in this case. cigarette finds easily combustible material (rare in a workspace), and then the material has to combust. Sounds much more like a story invented.
Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 15 2019 22:01 utc | 61
@ Posted by: Dan | Apr 15, 2019 4:08:53 PM | 35
I think there were actually a handful of those old stave churches burned. Looks like Fantoft at the very least has been rebuilt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantoft_Stave_Church
Posted by: Ash | Apr 15 2019 22:14 utc | 62
According to the latest reports, the west towers and the front will be saved, but the rest of the interior is probably gone. Who knows for the treasuries and side chapels? A lot of medieval art is certainly gone. The stones remain, even then burned limestone may be irretrievable: it is not unaffected by fire.
Posted by: Laguerre | Apr 15 2019 22:23 utc | 63
Posted by: Symen Danziger 46
Have the Yellow Vests, Wikileaks and/or the Russians been blamed yet?
The yellow vests, a real entity, do not exist in the western msm. Safer to blame make believe.
Posted by: MadMax2 | Apr 15 2019 22:30 utc | 64
the cigarette drop story sounds like british cover ohhh man the language it was me i did it he says.
reminds me of the guy walking near the twin towers on that ritualistk day talking to the tv news show about pancake collapse of the floors because of jet fuel burning heat.
maybe that forum can ask q anon what the score was?
i say it simple
sick and twisted satanick ritual
listen to the rt live stream and you here many folks laughing as you would at the circus or at the zoo
on the basis of arrested development achieved Spartacus-Weishaupt and karl marx and bb nutty
would be happy tonight.
cigarette drop on these days of days what are the chances
look up b thing and gelatine artists doing works in buildings
artists actors agents liars
Posted by: winston | Apr 15 2019 22:30 utc | 65
>>>> Zachary Smith | Apr 15, 2019 1:50:23 PM | 6
I'll wager this was on account of some idiot in the employ of the renovation contractor.I won't take that bet. Over the years there have been many fires in historic buildings in Europe - something that doesn't really happen in the United States. Often it's something stupid like using a blowtorch to join pipes without placing a flame-resistant blanket behind the joint or jury-rigged electrical systems. Then it's compounded by money-saving efforts, no night watchmen, no fire extinguishers located around the site, probably not even any risers to carry water up to the work area. Since the risks are well understood, the failure to plan for a possible almost probable fire to save money on renovating such an important cultural icon is the conspiracy - something that perhaps can be blamed on neo-liberal austerity. As for the fire, people should understand that the wood used has been seasoning nicely for several hundred years so it makes good firewood. Just as the British worked out with their bombing of older cities like Hamburg. From what I understand the roof is almost all wood but the major structural elements are stone. If the structural elements are still sound, then renovation would involve replacing the roof and I would suggest that doesn't require great craftmanship just good general and fire engineering skills.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 15 2019 22:38 utc | 66
Dan @ 35:
Yes I remember there were a number of church burnings in Norway in the 1990s. These were associated with people in the black metal scene. There was infighting among them - if I recall correctly, Varg Vikernes aka Burzum was jostling with Euronymous (whom he later killed in 1993) for leadership and influence in that scene, and burning churches was one way VV was attracting followers, in addition to the music.
The rationale that the black metal folks put out for burning churches was that the churches had been built over the remains of temples dedicated to Odin and other pagan gods. But this was a pathetic cover for their own infighting and squabbling and trying to get the attention of young gullible kids looking for excitement and a little bit of rebellion.
Burzum was tried and convicted of burning a number of churches in Bergen. Fantoft stave church, the burning of which he also went on trial for, but was not found guilty, was later rebuilt. (I've seen a photo of the rebuilt Fantoft stave church on Sunn0))) guitarist Stephen O'Malley's Ideologic.org website.)
As you probably know, Burzum was sentenced to the maximum 21 years' imprisonment for killing Euronymous in 1996. During his time in prison, he turned full neo-Nazi. Prison wardens denied him the use of guitars and then later synthesisers after two escape attempts. He was released in 2009 and I believe he is now living in ... France, of all places.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 15 2019 22:39 utc | 67
Iran / Hezbollah / Maduro
The Neocon modus operandi is to say ... 'an Iranian with ties to Hezbollah was seen taking pictures of Notre Dame a day earlier' [source Foundation for the Defense of Democracies]
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 15 2019 22:52 utc | 69
@68 Josh
Are you comparing Trump to Quasimodo??? Apologize immediately for grossly offending poor Quasimodo!
Posted by: Circe | Apr 15 2019 22:52 utc | 70
It just sickens me.
What a gloriously beautiful place.
Of course France will put amazing efforts into restoration, but still...
Posted by: JOHN CHUCKMAN | Apr 15 2019 22:54 utc | 71
Never trust anything on 4chan. Especially not on /b/ or /pol/. Notorious trolls.
On the other hand I recall another fire in France at the Church of Saint-Sulpice.. I saw it come by last month on RT.
"On 17 March 2019, the church briefly caught fire which had climbed up the doors before spreading to the stained glass above it and to a nearby stairway. The cause of the fire and damage was not immediately known and no one was hurt in the incident.[21] Police later confirmed the fire had not been accidental"
Notre Dame could be a fire, could be arson. If the latter than I sure as hell would want to know if these 2 incidents are related.
Posted by: Gehennah | Apr 15 2019 23:10 utc | 72
@Dan #35 @Jen #67: The black metal church burnings crossed my mind too but somehow I doubt that this is the handiwork of black metal fans. Those were done by "rebels without a cause" youth who revelled in nihilism. (as a matter of fact check out the movie Lords of Chaos about these guys). Varg has grown up and doesn't strike me as someone who would risk not seeing his family (even though he lives in France now).
If Arson my best bet would be ISIS returnees of which there are quite a few in France (and europe).
Posted by: Gehennah | Apr 15 2019 23:18 utc | 73
Blame it on Macron - French government responsible for upkeep of Notre Dame - only prepared to put in €2million each year when it needs a €100 million repair job - how much has France spent on failed wars in Libya and Syria?
Posted by: Ghostship | Apr 15 2019 23:24 utc | 74
Wait so the Pere is saying that everything important had been removed the week before? "All" of the art and relics? Is this a normal, frequent procedure? When was the last time such an action was taken? If the answer is WW2, I smell un énorme rat.
Posted by: sejomoje | Apr 15 2019 23:28 utc | 75
Gehennah @ 74:
France has had a black metal scene for the past 20 years. I still love the old French Black Legions metal bands! They were based in different parts of France, in Brittany and the southern areas (the historic Occitan-speaking region): these areas are devoutly Christian and Catholic. No, I don't believe the current church burnings in France are the work of black metal people.
Since there is renovation work currently going on at Notre Dame cathedral, the simplest explanation is that a worker or a team of workers hit an electrical wire.
If arson is involved - and there have been many acts of vandalism and desecration recently in Catholic churches in France - the most likely explanation is that people in the country are angry and frustrated at the level of paedophile crimes carried out by Catholic priests that has been tolerated and covered up by the Roman Catholic hierarchy, together with the political elites, over the decades.
I would think returning ISIS fighters and similar intel assets don't discriminate as to which churches to vandalise, and they would go after churches, non-Catholic as well as Catholic, in poor neighbourhoods (where security is not as good) close to where they live.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 15 2019 23:39 utc | 76
Nothing is for free, this fire is no doubt a miss direction, the NWO knows is losing and is fighting back as they can. I can only think the Yellow Vests to be more active after this, or NWO will have won in France.
Posted by: Canthama | Apr 15 2019 23:51 utc | 78
please ignore the part about all the paintings removed weeks ago.
no doubt like syria and iraq the soon to be burnt lost art works will be on c130 to uk,newyork and tel aviv.
this is not accident all the workers and sfx crews need to be arrested before they skip the country
Posted by: winston | Apr 16 2019 0:10 utc | 79
In California contractors hire the cheapest labour. Migrants or immigrants if you will. Who do you think contractors in Paris hire? And where are they from? Is it the same gene pool that frequently goes into these cathedrals and synagogues to defecate and urinate? I've seen it myself while there. If the Swede was a migrant, highly likely........?
Posted by: bSirius | Apr 16 2019 0:13 utc | 80
What a deep pain for the people of France, for me.
It instantly launched to my mind the human deed of General Von Choltitz, the nazi commander of the Paris occupation garrison in 1944.
He refused to follow Hittler s orders to set Paris bridges and monuments afire, with everything it would imply... A heroic gesture at that time!
Just to see it materialize now, 75 years later.
All it takes is one idiot smoking (say a tourist or a worker) or overloading a circuit breaker and you can get this. There are numerous ways to accidentally crete a fire in an old structure like this. Lets face it Notre Dame wasn’t bult to NYC’s ccurrent fire codes.
Whatever caused this, its really sad.
Perhaps its karma for the french campaign in Algeria or Morooco or Syria or maybe its just fate kicking the french in the head for electing an uber imbecile like Macron.
Posted by: Alaric | Apr 16 2019 0:33 utc | 82
This cathedral was built in the Dark Ages. And yet people flocked there to see and feel the beauty that is unattainable today. What does it say about our time?
Posted by: telescope | Apr 16 2019 0:44 utc | 83
Posted by: snake | Apr 16 2019 0:56 utc | 84
I don't believe in the occult. But I saw a thread on reddit's r/conspiracy subreddit that was posted
before the fire happened. It talked about how mid-April through the start of May is an occult ritual period, one for "sacrifice by fire". Then today, this happens. Funny coincidence.
Posted by: David | Apr 16 2019 1:00 utc | 85
I see so T @83 destroys this thread with his link but I can't say West Bank hasbara squatters
are...I mean write filthy trash as transcribed above by Zachary. Nice.
Posted by: Circe | Apr 16 2019 1:10 utc | 87
Profound cultural shocks seem to happen before major wars, almost as though that was part of the plan, as if to prepare the populace ...
Posted by: paul kane | Apr 16 2019 1:46 utc | 89
My condolences to the citizens of France. You have lost a great cultural heirloom. President Macron vows to rebuild Notre Dame Cathedral. This is the same Macron that said France has no culture. If anything, Notre Dame as physical structures go was French Culture writ large. What a chameleon Macron is. Mr. Macron, if France as you say has no culture, what is the reason for rebuilding? Are you feeling guilty of something and you need to confess your sins?
Posted by: Tom | Apr 16 2019 2:22 utc | 90
A few minutes after learning of the raging fire in Paris, my shock faded to the point where I could have some other thoughts. This particular treasure was gone, and all we'll have in the future are photographs and memories. But what if every other church, museum, theater, office building and apartment in Paris had been destroyed by two or three thermonuclear weapons? That's the kind of chaos (if you spread it to every large city in the world) the American Neocons like Pompeo and Pence and the others are wanting. These religious nuts are actively working to make the verses in Revelation come to pass.
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
They put zero value on anything in "first Earth"- the only place we humans have to live. They're constantly poking at nuclear-armed Russia and China, trying to start something. They're constantly enabling nuclear-armed Israel to try to get Armageddon started. Using US military forces to smash nations like Iraq and Libya. Using US money to do the same in Syria and Venezuela and Ukraine. None of these religious fanatics give a damn about anything on our "first Earth"; their only interest is that it ends. All of life and all of creation - gone forever so their crazy End-Time dreams will come to pass. And they're not the only ones. I was catching up at the second set of daily links at Naked Capitalism - the Water Cooler - when I saw this:
Framing “Climate Change”: Denialism vs. Exterminism
The blogger argues that the people who make their living taking Big Oil money to "deepen the public ignorance about global warming" are really doing much worse than that. The delays by this batch of "extremists" in stopping the use of Fossil Fuels are going to destroy human civilization. The world is too heavily armed for entire nations do die quietly as they did in the past. These "quiet" villains are just as destructive as the braying Pompeos and Pences. Maybe more so, for the earth is at some point going to reach a place where the destruction of the Notre Dame Cathedral will be a trifle not worth mentioning. Deniers? No, they're extremist psychopaths who do not care what happens to "first Earth". All they want is the short-term money.
Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 16 2019 2:27 utc | 91
I don't think regular French people--whether atheist, radical, anarchist, etc--would ever burn down Notre Dame because unlike most other churches it is by this point in history as much a testament to the depth and tradition of French culture and history than to the Roman Church. The only people callous and disdainful enough to intentionally destroy such a cultural artifact would be elected officials and their handlers. That said, absent further information it appears that the fire was simply an accident.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16 2019 2:47 utc | 92
The original plans for Notre Dame called for spires atop the bell towers.
Lax supervision of the construction phase of the towers led to the towers
being deemed too unstable to resist the dynamic loads which impressively
tall and slender spires would have imposed on them. It looks unfinished
because a decision was made that it would look less displeasing with no spires
than with the short, dumpy spires which the structure could tolerate.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 16 2019 2:59 utc | 93
Modern light-weight construction techniques and the feasibility
of installing super-strong post-construction steel reinforcing in
the towers may tempt the French to consider restoring Notre Dame to
its INTENDED former glory.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 16 2019 3:10 utc | 94
Craig Murray today:
"France is a country which has spent hundreds of billions of euros on nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction, and hundreds of billions of euros on other military capabilities. France possesses the technological capability to utterly flatten a city the size of Paris in minutes. Yet it does not possess the technological capability to prevent one of its greatest buildings from being destroyed by fire."
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/04/notre-dame-and-lateral-thinking/
Posted by: jayc | Apr 16 2019 3:18 utc | 95
Paris, what’s in a name? The Parisi tribe. Who wrested perhaps a sliver of their dignity back after the Roman Empire collapse surely if the etymology means anything.
As with all important cathedrals, it lies atop the site of the Roman pagan temple, or so it is thought. Of course that temple ...what did it replace?
Our “temples“ now are merely the sites of each nation which draw the most tourist spending. They are all in danger now, due to their debasement. But this is just another game, as the damn crown of thorns and toothpick version of the “real” cross had been removed just before the inferno. So it must be theater, the kind NYC only wished they could do on 9/11.
9/11 didn’t have people en made, singing hymns of praise in the street for the loss of NewYorks two burning middle fingers that’s for sure.
Posted by: Sejomoje | Apr 16 2019 3:20 utc | 96
Zachary Smith @95 thanks for that Exterminism link to the naked capitalism site. very interesting! we need more climate change research and discussion here at moa
Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 16 2019 3:45 utc | 98
A pity about anything historical being destroyed. Lot of old stuff destroyed in Syria and elsewhere in the middle east, and the french have been fully behind the US led destruction.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16 2019 4:06 utc | 99
from a reuters report: "a deformed hunchback seen running from the cathedral yelling 'sanctuary! sanctuary!!!' was immediately chased and beaten by a group of right-wingers who were yelling 'he must be a rapefugee!!!'"
sorry. not my best work. if it was the vatican i'd have TONS of great ones about the amount of pedo records being burned all at once overwhelming the ovens and whatnot. maybe next time.
Posted by: the pair | Apr 16 2019 4:47 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Yep, I'll blame Macron with you;)
Posted by: SharonM | Apr 15 2019 17:31 utc | 1