Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 03, 2019

No Chinese Troops Arrived In Venezuela

Commentator Horsewhisperer pointed to a piece by the former Indian ambassador M.K. Bhadrakumar that claims that Chinese soldiers arrived in Venezuela:

The reported arrival of Chinese military personnel in Venezuela last weekend is undoubtedly a major event in world politics.

Unlike Russia, which has a history of force projection abroad, this is an extremely rare Chinese move. Although vital Chinese interests are at stake in the war against terrorist groups in Afghanistan and Syria, China refrained from publicising any such deployment.

The reports mention that the group of Chinese military personnel is 120-strong and arrived on the Margarita Island in the Caribbean Sea off the Venezuelan mainland on March 28 ‘to deliver humanitarian aid and military supplies to the government forces.’ After delivering the humanitarian supplies, the Chinese PLA troops were apparently transferred to a Venezuelan military facility.

The "reports" are likely false. There are no Chinese soldiers in Venezuela.

M. K. Bhadrakumar piece was published yesterday on his blog Indian Punchline and today republished on NewsClick. It is based on a claim made by Al Masadar News, a site in Lebanon which at times has real news from Syria, but is otherwise amateurish.

Al Masdar wrote on April 2:

BEIRUT, LEBANON (7:00 A.M) – A group of Chinese soldiers arrived in Venezuela on Sunday as part of a cooperation program between Beijing and Caracas.

According to reports, more than 120 soldiers from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army arrived at Venezuela’s Margarita Island to deliver humanitarian aid and military supplies to the government forces.

The arrival of the People’s Liberation Army in Venezuela comes just days after the Russian armed forces deployed to the country to install a military helicopter training facility.

While Al Masdar says "according to reports" none are linked. A search turns up zero such reports. The only source seems to be the Twitter account @I30mki pictured in the post. That account posts mostly mil-porn around the Russian fighter jet Su-57. It is probably run by some Russian or Indian teen.

The seemingly sole source of Al Masdar tweeted about the alleged Chinese soldiers in Venezuela on April 1. Two of the attached photos show a Chinese B-747 commercial cargo plane and the third picture shows some soldiers.

The Chinese cargo plane indeed brought aid to Venezuela. Ruptly provided video of the welcome cermony and unloading. Only civil personal, no soldiers, are seen in that video. Text to the video, published on March 29, says:

A plane carrying the first batch of humanitarian aid from China arrived at Simon Bolivar International Airport in the northern Venezuelan city of Maiquetia on Friday.

Maiquetta is not on Venezuela’s Margarita Island but on its mainland. It is unlikely that 120 soldiers would travel on a long range commercial cargo plane which is neither equipped nor licensed for human transport.

The third picture attached to the tweet shows five soldiers smiling for the camera.


bigger

On his blog Bhadrakumar claims that the picture shows "Chinese PLA personnel pose with members of Venezuela’s National Bolivarian Armed Forces, March 29, 2019". While the aid delivery was on March 29 the claim that the picture was taken on the same day is likely false.

Two of the soldiers wear ammunition carrier vests with FANB written on the left breast pocket. It stands for Fuerza Armada Nacional Bolivariana, which is the name of the Venezuelan army. The other three soldiers have digital pattern uniforms in three different color schemes. These are Chinese Type 07 combat uniforms and the color schemes are "ocean", "universal" and "urban" used respectively by the Chinese navy, army and air force. All soldiers in the picture are probably 30 to 40 years old. One of the Chinese soldiers is a Major, another is Lieutenant Colonel. The ranks of the other men are not visible.

That three Chinese officers from three different branches of the Peoples Liberation Army are in a picture with two Venzuelan officer makes it likely that it was taken during some type of friendly officer exchange program or visit. It is unlikely to have been taken during the aid delivery. Why would middle rank officer from the navy, air force and army take part in some relief flight?

The tweet and its pictures make no sense. All that we are left with are the unsourced claims by some site in Lebanon:

According to reports, more than 120 soldiers from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army arrived at Venezuela’s Margarita Island to deliver humanitarian aid and military supplies to the government forces.

Why some 120 Chinese soldiers would land on the tourist Margarita Island instead of the mainland is left unexplained. Militarily it would not make any sense and there is zero evidence that it happened.

The fakenews piece by Al Masdar was picked up by Zerohedge, Sott.net and dozens of other such trash sites. That Bhadrakumar and other regular Moon of Alabama readers failed for it is sad.

Posted by b on April 3, 2019 at 18:26 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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And THAT is how you debunk fake news, apparently.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Apr 3 2019 18:41 utc | 1

You appear to be correct.

https://www.rt.com/news/455469-china-refutes-military-venezuela/

Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 3 2019 18:55 utc | 2

These situations are complicated. Using myself as an example, I don't read Spanish or Chinese. My trust of the US "corporate media" is quite low And US education on South and Central America is and has always been poor. So it's easy to be taken in - especially when the claim had a plausible basis. Here is a teaser "stub" article from the neocon WSJ:

Beijing weighs its options as it stands behind a government that still owes it $20 billion

Even in an age when discussions about money run into the trillions, $20 billion dollars isn't a trivial sum. Add to that how the Chinese must be at least as concerned about what used to be called "the domino" effect of the US toppling nations might lead at last to themselves.

The Russians have made sure everybody knows about their military people sent to Venezuela. This morning I read about them setting up a helicopter training center there. It didn't seem unreasonable to me to assume the Chinese were following the Russian's lead.

I'll grant that a sensible 'news' site would have made some checks, but too many of them really are a couple of people with an internet connection. If a little site is financed by clickbait ads, they don't much care whether there is any truth in their posts and "articles" or not. I've got one horrid example I could share, but it has so much anti-vaxxer Climate Denier Government-Hating 9/11 Truther stuff I'm afraid I'd be literally assisting a certain class of loons if I provided a demo link.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 3 2019 19:16 utc | 3

"The fakenews piece... was picked up by Zerohedge... and dozens of other such trash sites"

Ouch!

As much as I like ZH, I have to admit of late, they do post more & more dubious articles...

sad...

Posted by: xLemming | Apr 3 2019 19:19 utc | 4

I am sad that the rumor is not true

Many MoA barflies believe that China must step up in this situation because socialism.
What that stepping up is may not be boots on the ground but the fire is hot, so to speak

Ever wonder what is going on behind the kabuki us 99% get to see?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 3 2019 19:19 utc | 5

Good that China sent "humanitarian aid" - material and logistic support - to alleviate human suffering.

China's interference and opposition to the US NATO goal of starving out and ultimately destroying Venezuela should not go unpunished. The Three Amigos, Bolton, Pompeo and Trump, should be catapulted into Beijing immediately in order to kick some arse and take some names.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Apr 3 2019 19:21 utc | 6

Landing on Margarita island makes sense if you are setting up an anti ship coastal defense but it seems there would be a lot of proof of that, which is not evident.

Posted by: Alaric | Apr 3 2019 19:26 utc | 7

Yep, the Chinese government has already publcly debunked it:

China refutes reports of sending troops to Venezuela to help Maduro

And, contrary to the Al-Masdar, this (from AP) cites the source: Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang (who is a real person and is indeed China's incumbent Foreign Ministry spokesman).

And they are probably telling the truth. Here's an article from its extra-official newspaper:

Venezuela receives medical assistance from China

This was published at 30 March 2019 -- the Saturday before the fake news came out.

Posted by: vk | Apr 3 2019 19:27 utc | 8

>>>>: fastfreddy | Apr 3, 2019 3:21:59 PM | 6

Good that China sent "humanitarian aid" - material and logistic support - to alleviate human suffering.

Are you implying that the humanitarian aid is something other than humanitarian aid? The use of quotation marks suggests sarcasm - I doubt the Chinese are perfidious as the United States and good old Albion and when they say they've sent humanitarian it really is humanitarian aid.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 3 2019 19:52 utc | 9

Well, SOTT got it from Fort Russ News. SOTT reprint

FRN's piece was evidently written by one Joaquin Flores who includes no attribution for photos nor sources for the alleged military participation.

The article ends with the flogging of their t-shirts and the statement:

Tired of Fake News delivered by actors with no code of ethics? Do you have a desire to know what's REALLY going on in the world? Support the freest and most honest daily news website in operation today FORT RUSS.
LOL

Posted by: dus7 | Apr 3 2019 19:55 utc | 10

The subject of b's post is a very good example of why it's important to critically examine any claim by any and every source whether or not you like what is said. If, for example, the Democrats had critically examined HRC and DNC claims of interference by Russia in the 2016 elections as the explanation for HRC losing the election to Trump, they would not be in the very deep hole they've dug for themselves. So deep that it looks probable that Trump will win the next election and serve a full eight years. But no, they hate Trump so much that they are really happy to believe fake news about him.

As for the Chinese getting militarily involved in Venezuela, it's unnecessary with Russia making its support for the democratically-elected Venezuelan government obvious. The claims from Washington that Russia along with anyone else has no right to be involved in the western hemisphere just further demonstrates Washington's hypocrisy because it still believes it has an inalienable right to interfere in the eastern hemisphere.

It would also be counterproductive for the Chinese given how illogically fearful the American public are of the so-called red menace. Contrary to what Hollywood would have us believe, the Chinese have rarely resorted to force projection to aid other like-minded countries. The last time it was involved in this way abroad was most likely the Korean War where the Chinese had made it very clear to the United States that if the "UN forces" moved north of the 38th parallel, the Chinese would intervene to ensure that the Chinese border with Korea did not become a base for American forces. Washington was dumb enough to ignore this and what would have been an American victory actually became an American loss which demonstrate that beyond extreme violence, the United States understands little about warfare.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 3 2019 20:02 utc | 11

punked! a million laughs!!!

Posted by: john | Apr 3 2019 20:15 utc | 12

there would be a lot of proof of that
I doubt it until after the system was operational.

Many Americans still misunderstand the Cuban Missile Crisis. They erroneously believe that this was a real attempt by the Soviet Union to position intermediate-range nuclear missiles on Cuba. In reality, it was a successful attempt to bring greater stability to the world by persuading the United States to remove its Jupiter missiles from Italy and Turkey. The United States IC saw exactly what the Soviet Union wanted them to see with the result that Washington took serious note of what was going on and did the right thing. If the Soviet Union had really wanted to place nuclear missiles on Cuba, the first Washington would have known about it would have been leaked minutes from the Politburo meeting where Khrushchev made his announcement about it.

The Chinese are most likely on par with the Russians when it comes to camouflage and deception.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 3 2019 20:18 utc | 13

Zerohedge, it's my No. 1 news site, just because it's full of exciting bollokcs is no reason to be down on it, everyone needs some fun

Posted by: Do....tter | Apr 3 2019 20:35 utc | 14

The logical position of the Chinese would be that whatever else Venezuela might need it doesn't need soldiers. It has plenty of them. and they are proving to be loyal to their country.
This is not to say that Venezuela does not need arms, munitions and expert assistance, and is very likely to seek it from Russia, Cuba and China, all of which are sources of hard won expertise in the matter of fighting off terrorist attacks from outside.
Of one thing we can be assured and that is that this story, quickly denied and extremely improbable will nevertheless enter into the propaganda of the Empire. Like the Russian Interference in the elections, anti-semitism in the Labour Party and the attempt to assassinate the Skripals with Novichok, it will become another lie to be promoted in the unending battle of the few against the many.
The trick is to believe nothing from the MSM that appears to substantiate the imperialist position. And nothing at all in which the word Venezuela is used-they are in a mission, at war and all that matters to them is to pull down the currently designated enemy of the Empire. And they have no choice in the matter because the media now relies upon the imperial state to keep it alive, to protect it from competition and to supply it with its 'journalism'. Of which this fake news is entirely representative.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2019 20:39 utc | 15

Damn. I was really hoping for this to be true. At first I was surprised given Beijing haven't done anything this bold. After thinking about the logistical nightmare for them, I figured it was in retaliation to Washington selling (or attempting to) F-16s to Taiwan. However, it shouldn't surprise anyone that Chinese intelligence is crawling around everywhere in Venezuela.

Posted by: Ian | Apr 3 2019 20:40 utc | 16

thanks b.. ditto @!13 ghostship comment - this is another example, among zillions, of the need for critical thinking..they don't seem to teach it at schools, or anywhere.. it must be learned the hard way it seems..

Posted by: james | Apr 3 2019 20:40 utc | 17

It goes without saying that among the prime targets of this propaganda were the Venezuelan military's officers, whose loyalty it is the primary object of the US to subvert.
In other news: Israeli officers are said to be arriving in the United States to replace Americans. A plane load landed in Washington today. It is expected that the men they take over from will be required to hand over their wives and homes to their replacements.

Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2019 20:45 utc | 18

Trash websites like NYT, WAPO, NPR, Reuter ...

As for China, would be nice if they showed a bit more geopolitical guts, but i suppose they are too busy surveiling and controlling their population.

Posted by: paul | Apr 3 2019 20:45 utc | 19

Thanks b, Off topic but a fun read on other monsters that buy us senators and congress critters in
https://journal-neo.org/2019/04/03/american-political-circus-is-rocked-again/

No wonder the USA political class hate Venezuela, they dont offer bribes.As much as I like the idea of Mueller going after middle east countries for 'influencing USA elections, I would not believe a word of it.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 3 2019 20:53 utc | 20

....entertainment and news serve entirely different purposes. One is to make as much money as possible telling stories(a laudable aim), the other is to make as much money as possible telling stories. As people we love stories and I guess we are not all that discriminating.
Please keep up the good work.

Posted by: Do....tter | Apr 3 2019 20:56 utc | 21

Ditto james, & thanks b for the efforts. Imagine that, real journalism. And also, GS @ 13 for the history lesson, a fact not widely known.

Posted by: ben | Apr 3 2019 20:56 utc | 22

Well, it is indeed sad, that so many, IMHO the huge majority of so called "alternative media" is indeed: Trash.
With even lower journalism standards as MSM. And THAT should make us all think.
If there is no real development toward alternative media, that can surpass MSM in quality standards, research methods and options, wide network of high quality correspondents and researches, than we are all fucked.
To have the heart "in the right place" is not enough. And too many believe it would be helpful when fighting MSM propaganda, to just believe the opposite.
Or fight the Empire by claiming Putin (Or China) is the born again Christ, coming to save the world.
The truth is always in between, and superficial, click bait outfits like zerohedge, SOTT, or ideological propagandist like the Saker are just as much no solution as the NYT.
They are just the opposite evil.
Only those which never tie themselves blindly to some entity, ideology, policy or belief have the chance to truly develop an alternative.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Apr 3 2019 21:06 utc | 23

Thank you b!
Fact check, fact check, fact check. It can't be said enough. I saw something from southfront a little while back that said Putin's approval rating in Russia had fallen to the 20's I think, 30's maybe, and it was all doom and gloom - Russia is on the verge of collapse crap. A quick search and I found an article from a Chinese source that referenced the exact same poll but said that Putin's approval rating was in the 60's. I left an anonymous comment with that information, but it discredited southfront for me. With Zero Hedge, I have a very hard time getting past my eyeroll response to seeing the name Tyler Derden next to a pic of Brad Pitt. Seriously, come on.

I did see the comment in question, and I kinda rolled by it. For me, military and economic issues are less interesting and relevant than social and political ones.

Zachary Smith
Since you made reference to my comment about China following Russia's lead, I want to stress that the context of my statement was very clearly political. It wasn't based on the rumor of military presence, but rather, at least originally for me, upon a diplomatic statement I came across fairly recently. As I remember, it was something to the effect of an affirmation of Venezuelan sovereignty and a rejection of regime change efforts. That may be something that I saw here and I'm motivated to confirm my understanding. My phone is hot and the battery is low but I'll try to find that when I can. I just had to say that I'm standing by my statement.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 3 2019 21:13 utc | 24

what Venezuale needs right now, among many other things of course, is help with all these power outages and their power grids... I have little reason to doubt that there are US inspired or plotted acts of sabotage and treason.

at this point in history, on the international scene now, it seems to me that the russians act and the chinese talk (and give some aid, which is good, no doubt. )

But it's the russians that have a clearer sense what all this regime change bullshit being pulled by the Western powers is doing to the real world, and are determined since 2015 to resist, starting first with Syria.

I wouldn't mind chinese boots on the ground there at all. That's a powerful deterrent against the aggression of the hegemonic power, if you ask me, as we can easily tell by Trump's and bolton's and pompeo's reactions to the Russians being there in Venezuela


Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 3 2019 21:38 utc | 25

With all due respect, M. K. Bhadrakumar is far more credible than Moon Of Alabama. Of course, he doesn't always get it right, but then again, nobody does. China refuting that its troops do not make it fact. After all, govt regularly lies and it serves China's interests to refute this.

Posted by: Mike | Apr 3 2019 21:55 utc | 26

Too bad, but the Chinese are generally very cautious in most of their foreign relationships.

Posted by: JOHN CHUCKMAN | Apr 3 2019 22:03 utc | 27

Thank you for fact-checking and debunking this.
I admit I couldn't be bothered, would just wait for a few days before deciding whether it's 'fact' or 'fiction'.

Militarily, it doesn't make much sense. Theoretically, Beijing could combine aid delivery & 'friendly exchange' of militaries, but this would be a strange moment to do so.

If China backs Maduro, it's be economically or diplomatically, not by military means. That'd be Russia's job.

Posted by: smuks | Apr 3 2019 22:11 utc | 28

@ Mike #26

China refuting that its troops do not make it fact.

I thought of that too, but my impression of modern China is that they won't sneak around if they decide to do such a thing. Maybe not exactly parades with brass bands, but IMO they'll make sure everybody knows what they've done.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 3 2019 22:18 utc | 29

John Helmer has a very interesting post today:
"...Putin has lost the initiative; he cannot protect those who have counted on his protection for the past two decades.
"The signals are also clear elsewhere – reinforcement of the Venezuela front; on the Syria front termination of the Idlib agreement of September 2018 between Putin and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which Erdogan failed to fulfil.
"These measures also indicate that the initiative has passed to the Stavka, the combined forces of the General Staff, the Defence Ministry, and the Security Council...."
http://johnhelmer.net/the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-president-vladimir-putin-has-lost-control/#more-20639

Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2019 22:22 utc | 30

I noticed similar propaganda posts towards the end of March on social media by anti-Maduro trolls posted in Spanish. However those were accompanied with more pictures of Asians in drab green jungle fatigues with wide brimmed cloth hats, likely screenshots from a video. The images are from March 2012 or earlier.

It disappoints me none of the independent reporters took five minutes off to do a cursory search before regurgitating nonsense.

Posted by: Drive-by Commenting | Apr 3 2019 22:40 utc | 31

@14 Do...tter

Admittedly there are occasional gems amongst the bullocks on ZH, but you gotta wade through umpteen articles on creepy Biden smelling women's hair... eww!

As for the Brad Pitt pic, that's 'cos Tyler Durden is a nom de plume - he's a character from the movie Fight Club, which is rather apropos given the comment section there...

Posted by: xLemming | Apr 3 2019 22:50 utc | 32

The blogger at Syrian Perspective has broken a long nap to write about Venezuela. Venezuela?

People are finally realizing that the situation in Venezuela is the same as that of Syria in 2011

It is obvious the upstart Yanque stooge is going to be arrested finally for treason. The U.S. has repeatedly warned Maduro that arresting Guaido would cross a red line. Abrams has said it. So has Bolton. And so have Pence and Pompeo. Yet, it appears the Americans have talked themselves, once again, into a corner. With all sanctions imposed on Venezuela, what is there left for Washington to do? Invasion? Surgical strikes on infrastructure? They did all that in Syria and where did that get them? In Libya, the Americans nihilistically bombed the country into pure devastation, destroying the nation with the highest standard of living in all Africa. Hillary Clinton, shrieked with joy after telling the world that Qaddafi was dead. And now, the Yanquis, and their miserable frog and limey allies are trying to pick up the pieces of one of history’s most reprehensible acts of political gluttony. The U.S. cannot afford another disaster like that. Or can it?

I don't know! Trump's little helpers are lunatics, and Trump himself is a functional idiot. He doesn't know anything except for what he sees on his marathon Fox News viewing sessions, and because of that new-found knowledge he can assure himself he is as much an expert as anyone on the planet. Being as arrogant as he is ignorant, that's an easy sell. "I'm a genius!"

Batten down the hatches, for there is no telling at all what is going to happen in all the places where the US has been piling up the kindling and gasoline cans. A new example:

NATO set to guarantee free passage of ships via Kerch Strait — US envoy

Yes, that's from TASS, but like with the Chinese Troops story, this is more than a little believable. And an example of how Trump is striving to oust Hillary and her associated neocons from their positions of #1 Modern US Warmongers.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Apr 3 2019 23:10 utc | 33

Dear B,

With all due respect, Hoarse Whisperer pointed out Bhadrakumar's article but did not comment personally on it so we don't really know whether HW believed it or not. Perhaps HW should have said something to the effect of having made the comment to see whether other MoA commenters have seen similar reports and whether they all came from the same source.

We are not all trained in critical thinking or media analysis (that's partly why many of us come here!) so rather than saying that it's sad for MoA readers to swallow such reporting by Al Masdar News, it's better to say that it's good that MoA readers find such news and bring to MoA for the rest of us to pick over and judge whether it's credible or not.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 3 2019 23:16 utc | 34

That original source tweet from Al Masdar *was* dated April 1....

Posted by: John Anthony La Pietra | Apr 3 2019 23:42 utc | 35

>>>>> james | Apr 3, 2019 4:40:50 PM | 17

In the UK, it's all the paperwork and preparation for testing that means teachers don't have the time to teach their pupils how to think critically. The paperwork and testing were introduced by Thatcher along with her creating "markets" for schools. Blair, a Thatcherite, did nothing to reverse this, and if anything made it worse because he was a congenital idiot.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 3 2019 23:44 utc | 36

>>>> Zachary Smith | Apr 3, 2019 7:10:20 PM | 33

NATO set to guarantee free passage of ships via Kerch Strait — US envoy

Her exact words (start at 12:30) were "to assure that there is safe passage for Ukrainian ships through the Kerch straits to the Sea of Azov", so while TASS didn't quote her exactly, they had the correct meaning.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 4 2019 0:10 utc | 37

...
That Bhadrakumar and other regular Moon of Alabama readers failed for it is sad.
Posted by b on April 3, 2019 at 02:26 PM

No, that's not what's sad. What's sad is that Hoarsewhisperer liked the story so much that he fell for it hook, line and sinker and went off the deep end (of over-enthusiasm) without bothering to check.
I can't speak for the other regulars.

I was mildly apprehensive when CGTN didn't mention it a few hours later.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 4 2019 0:11 utc | 38

Jen @34--

I also linked to the twitter item with the 5-soldiers pic, announcing what appeared to be factual evidence of Chinese military presence in Venezuela, but that elicited zero discussion too. Perhaps both mine and HW's comments are skipped as even the trolls ignored us.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 0:20 utc | 39

Thanks for the time put into the article. It is hard to get the facts when the flow of information is so volatile and time is so limited. Everything is BS until proven. The response of the US would have been telling and they said nothing on the issue.

China is concerned about the situation...

"China is willing to provide assistance and technical support for recovery of the power system," Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lu Kang told reporters in Beijing on Wednesday....

While Beijing has an official policy of not interfering in the affairs of other countries, Foreign Minister Wang Yi recently hinted that China may get involved. In February, he stuck to the line that the Venezuelan issue was an internal matter. But speaking to reporters last Friday on the sidelines of the National People's Congress in Beijing, he said, "China is willing to continue to support the Venezuelan ruling party and opposition parties to seek a political solution through peaceful conversation, and maintain the stability of the country and the safety of the people."

Asian Review

China is acting like the adult on the Planet. The US is acting like a bunch of spoiled brats used to continually getting their way.

Posted by: dltravers | Apr 4 2019 1:04 utc | 40

Re my comment @ 34, I went back to Hoarsewhisperer's comment on M Bhadrakumar's article and realised HW did comment on it to the effect that s/he took the information about the supposed Chinese military presence as credible.

My apologies to B for not reading HW's comment properly!

Hoarse Whisperer @ 39: Don't worry, it happens to the best of us.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 4 2019 1:19 utc | 41

Well now, Russia and China join Hizbullah in Venezuela, according to the MSDisinfoMedia. Iran must be next!

Posted by: Roy G | Apr 4 2019 1:36 utc | 42

xLemming
Lol, I've seen Fight Club, and I think it's a ridiculous pen name.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 2:55 utc | 43

Paul@19:

….but i suppose they are too busy surveiling and controlling their population.

And I suppose you actually bought all those trash spilt over the years by the likes of NYT, WAPO, NPR, Reuter....Or do you have other sources of fact revelation to convince you that Chinamen has been surveilling and controlling their population???

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 4 2019 2:56 utc | 44

i picked up the distinct scent of bullshit simply because i have the telly news on for background news while i read internet stuff every morning. if this had been real, the tory-centric news channels here (and especially the guidophiles in the states) would have been screeching "OMG COMMIE DOMINO EFFECT!!!!!!!!!" all day. cnn and msnbc would have melted our screens with inane hysterics and rachel maddow sweating under a caption of "CHINA SYNDROME!".

instead it was all "blah blah dc shutdown" and "yada yada some dumb twat conservative tweeted about the gays again". the only mention of venezuela was a 20 second blurb about "look at the power going out again! socialisms amirite?"

i've only seen sott.net here and there and never thought one way or the other. it's just "there". but zero hedge is 0% surprising since the various "durdens" are all over the map on venezuela coverage. i guess that's what happens when ayn rand capitalists from former soviet satellites opine on socialist countries.

Posted by: the pair | Apr 4 2019 3:08 utc | 45

@ Ghostship 13

Many Americans still misunderstand the Cuban Missile Crisis. They erroneously believe that this was a real attempt by the Soviet Union to position intermediate-range nuclear missiles on Cuba. In reality, it was a successful attempt to bring greater stability to the world by persuading the United States to remove its Jupiter missiles from Italy and Turkey.

Bwah..

The Cuban Missile Crisis was organized to destroy a burgeoning thaw between the US and Soviet Union under JFK who had the temerity to challenge the military, industrial, security and all round UK Zionist complex which still runs false flag chemical weapons ops in Syria in an effort to keep the US and Russia at each other's throats. When Khrushchev was removed it was for his "hare brained schemes," including specifically the Cuban Missile Crisis which effectively destroyed secret US-Soviet cooperation since the time of Stalin and Roosevelt.

The Soviet Union never recovered from Khrushchev's stupidity and/or willingness to act like a fool including the UN shoe banging incident according to a script developed at the behest oligarchs of City of London. To this day the alignments remain unchanged with so-called Atlanticists still dreaming of new and better ways to sell out their Russian compatriots.

Posted by: C I eh? | Apr 4 2019 3:12 utc | 46

"frighter plane"? lol.

Posted by: someguy | Apr 4 2019 3:14 utc | 47

"hoarsewhisperer"?
haha

sorry for not being able to contribute much here, but this post and the resulting comments are gold :D

Posted by: someguy | Apr 4 2019 3:20 utc | 48

Still, the old adage applies - "If you owe me 20 dollars, you have a problem, if you owe me 20 billion, I have a problem."

Posted by: Jezabeel | Apr 4 2019 3:53 utc | 49

Zachary Smith @3
Apologies, I misread your statement. My bad.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 3:56 utc | 50

I had an off topic question but my comment hasn't shown up. Apologies if this is a double.

I'm wondering, does anybody have info regarding what happened after Ibn Saud that changed the Saudi stance on Palestine? According to this article the objective of the meeting was to secure support for the Zionist project. Saud was adamant in his refusal, many of his comments are quite astute. Not that the Wahabbis were ever warm and fuzzy, but something produced a dramatic change in the policy towards Palestine. Can anyone point me to a good source of information about this?
fdrfoundation.org/fdrs-last-personal-diplomacy-ibn-saud-and-the-quest-for-a-jewish-homeland/

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 4:17 utc | 51

Sorry, I don't know why that link didn't come up.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 4:20 utc | 52

Out of curiosity I had a look and so I may as well share it. As of right now a TinEye image search finds no other cases of the photo than here at MoA. This doesn't mean anything except that the picture is either rare or new or only found in places TinEye doesn't look (I don't know but my guess is they probably don't search "antisocial media") and that the older it is the rarer it should have to be to escape the search. All search engines lag a bit or a lot behind what one can find manually.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Apr 4 2019 4:28 utc | 53

Every time Trump does or says something or hires someone like Elliott Abrams to prove he's in deep with the Zionist Neocon agenda, Hoarsewhisperer is here on cue making the case for Trump pretending Trump is really playing multi-dimensional chess and Trump is a reverse psychology genius, as if example, taking over Venezuela with regime change, is really Trump's plot to bring down his Neocon buddies.

Here what's really going on: Hoarsewhisperer fell for Trump's drain the swamp populist, non-interventionist charade like he fell for the Chinese cavalry landed in Venezuela fiction.

This Trump believe your lying eyes tool ain't so sharp.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 4 2019 4:48 utc | 54

@52md

The Saudis have never been on the side of the Palestinians and will never be on their side NO MATTER WHAT GREAT BULLSHET LIP SERVICE they pretend to the rest of the Arab world so don't bother carrying their water. Forget about the link; don't feed their bull.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 4 2019 4:56 utc | 55

@39 Hoarsewhisperer

Respectfully, I must disagree. Your posting your comment is not what's sad.

What's sad is that b had to write a post to deconstruct the news item you thought was worth posting, when typically the thread itself would have done that work.

What's sad is that the Turkey thread was monopolized by a few commenters who were obsessed with defending their egos and the rightness of their own comments, so that the commenters who might have joined the thread didn't bother.

Bad comments drive out good.

Many of us have posted tentative themes on these threads at Moon of Alabama precisely because we feel it's a trusted environment, where our offering can be evaluated and added to or subtracted from - but all in a desire for the correct interpretation of current affairs, and all in the end resulting in an enriched consensus that we all can share.

That's what's sad. The threads get polluted by people who want to argue instead of discuss, who need to preserve their own sense of self, while putting others in the lesser position, instead of simply listening to the points and offering something new and worthwhile.

Each thread, and the full story trying to be ascertained and established therein, is only valuable if people will leave their damn egos at the door and simply focus on the matter at hand.

And when that doesn't happen, that's what's sad.

~~

For what it's worth, I don't call any of the outlets cited by b "trash sites". I think it's a tough world to discern the truth in, and any platform that will carry something that may once in a while prove of value, is of value. It's not a zero-sum equation we're working in here, it's win-win - but that only works if we don't penalize the losses along the way.

That said, I don't think b really meant the part about "trash" either. I suspect he was annoyed by having to work so hard to clear up a point that his commenters should have dealt with by now.

But that's only what I think.

Posted by: Grieved | Apr 4 2019 5:14 utc | 56

A follow-up to my post at @31

This is one of the early sources of the disinformation campaign I noticed (28 March 2019) on Twitter and likely where @I30mki got their image through reposts by English speaking sources:

https://twitter.com/Mar153313/status/1111498693415485440

Posted by: Drive-by Commenting | Apr 4 2019 5:29 utc | 57

Circe
That's not at all helpful. Ibn Saud was adamant in his refusal to accept the Zionist project. If you dispute this, please provide some evidence. He died in 1950 I think and the Saudi policy toward Palestine changed. I'm not carrying anyone's water, I'm looking for truth and understanding. If you don't have anything useful to offer, why even bother to comment? Was that just so that you could slip in an insult? Childish behavior doesn't help the cause. I'm very opposed to Zionism, and attacking your comrades doesn't help the cause either.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 5:42 utc | 58

Grieved @57
Don't hold back now. Your comment is very vague and without specifying which commentators you think are or are not checking their egos at the door, your comment isn't instructive.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 5:49 utc | 59

"...Why some 120 Chinese soldiers would land on the tourist Magarita Island instead of the mainland is left unexplained..."

Well, if I were one of the Chinese soldiers and had a choice...

But the strange airport was probably someone mis-translating or mangling the name of the Simón Bolívar International Airport in Maiquetia, i.e., 'the Maiquetia Airport' becomes 'the Margarita Airport'. Except the airport on Margarita isn't called that, it's the Santiago Mariño Caribbean International Airport. And no reason for a 747 of medical supplies to land at Santiago Mariño. When you fly over the island at several thousand feet up on your way to Simón Bolívar Maiquetia (= Caracas) and you're under radar control, you're probably using the island's airport waypoint name, which is Margarita. Someone might have heard air traffic controllers talking to that aircraft when it was reporting that it was 'approaching/at Margarita'.

I really wasn't paying too much attention to the credibility of the photo in question. I was more interested in the aircraft, itself. It's a 747-400 BDSF (BeDek Special Freight) which is a converted B747-400 series passenger aircraft.

http://www.iai.co.il/Sip_Storage//FILES/9/35659.pdf

And it was on a very long flight. Shanghai to Madrid (~6,400 mi/12 hrs), then Madrid to Venezuela (~4,300 mi/8 hrs).

https://twitter.com/GDarkconrad/status/1111642047625211904

If it had a 65 ton cargo (130,000 lbs), then it could only go 7,500 miles at a time with full tanks before it ran low on juice -or- it could have been carrying more cargo (another 15 - 20 tons) or passengers and still made it to Madrid safely before refueling. The 747-400 BDSF still has the 747's upper deck (bulge on top/front of fuselage) right behind the cockpit. It can be configured to hold 20 - 30 seats. Those are not usually used for passengers, but can be and sometimes are if the passengers are related to the cargo somehow. There are no provisions for passenger seating on the main and lower cargo decks like windows, oxygen masks or lavatories.

So the possibility is there that 'some' Chinese military may have came over with the supplies, but not 120.

Then again, there's no proof that any were on the aircraft at all. But the Chinese probably wouldn't want to advertise that fact if they did have a few people in Venezuela (and the PLA wouldn't pose for any goofy pictures). I'm simply thinking that the Chinese have $30 billion sunk in Venezuela (3x Russia) and are maybe a dozen shiploads of oil short so far in Venezuela's pay-by-oil plan. I think it would be worth it to Xi to have a few of 'his guys' in Venezuela anyways - an probably long before the end of March medicine shipment. Just speculation, though. It's just kind of weird that someone hasn't identified the source of the photo(s) by now if they were from some previous event.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Apr 4 2019 7:10 utc | 60

This is the New Media Reality.

For starters, you can count on most of the audience being clueless about most topics beyond pop culture.

You can make the most specious and unfounded claims and expect them to be reported at face value by an equally clueless media.

You can then expect the discussion to ensue in the form of shouted talking points, memes and ten-second sound bytes.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Apr 4 2019 7:23 utc | 61

@33ZS

Nice writing btw, both yours and the quote you inserted.

The way I feel lately is that we're due for another World War or an act of God, example, a biblical Great Flood. So maybe we should stop fighting the inevitable. This world has become really dirty and corrupt and few give a damn. Maybe the world is due for a massive cleansing.

I'm sorry to say that I have little faith left in humanity right now. On one side there is so much suffering and despair and on another so much ignorance, apathy, greed and corruption. Hard times are required. The way I see it is that there's an economic collapse or crash looming that's being held back only by a cracking dam of unsustainable credit. Add to this threat a worsening unpredictable climate situation whose effects, already being experienced, will further stress the fragile global economy and to make matters worse, geopolitical tension and mistrust is mounting, with nuclear powers squaring off as multiple trigger points are being created by the powerful who want to rule the world exclusively, while social unrest grows and disillusionment and moral decay is rampant. So in fact, the perfect storm scenario is brewing. The rumbling of the world's negative forces coming together is almost audible and palpable. It's like the world is a pressure cooker ready to blow sky high at any moment. There's a lot of excess and evil in the world and the correction looks to be massive and righteously unforgiving and I just don't see how it can be avoided at this point.

Maybe I'm being too cynical and pessimistic and plain fed up that good is harder and harder to find or maybe I'm having a Cassandra moment.

@59, 60 md

Sorry, but I have very little patience with exercises in futility, illusion, false impressions and the transmission of self-deception and ignorance, diseases the world can do without completely. Now, don't write back all offended thinking all that was meant for you. However, if you want to chase a mirage down the Saudi rabbit hole, go ahead, but don't try to take others with you.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 4 2019 8:06 utc | 62

This is just one in a long series of Bhadrakumar's misfire. I have never found his analysis or conclusions persuasive.

Posted by: Steve | Apr 4 2019 8:36 utc | 63

bevin # 30

The 'transfer' took place when Israhell downed the Ilyushin monitoring plane. Mind you I am not of a mind to think Putin has lsot much authority in that belligerent act. We are talking about dolls within dolls within dolls here. Regardless the original circumstances when the deal between Putin, Assad and Erogan were those of yet another extreme threat by the NATO belligerents shrieking about the demise of the coveted 'moderate rebels' in Idlib province.

A mass deportation was underway from from Daraa in the south to the killer hideout in the north. Turkish leadership was skittish and prevaricating on the edge of hugging the yakees (yet again). So Putin and Assad kept the dopey Erdgan in line by giving him a figleaf of legitimacy as he was desperate to invade and strut his dick on the Syrian soil. Such is the circumstance of 'allies' when hot war is blowing. As observers we get impatient but the participants weigh the real cost.

Equally Putin has a parliament to balance and a Prime Minister of dubious pedigree to work with. So does Assad. In Putin's case his parliament is fractious and there are major corruption waves breaking about his Prime Minister and others.

Erdogan had to strut and fail before Assad and Putin could advance a rook or two in Idlib and besides while they were busy killing each other, there was a huge clean up underway in the east and south to render safe civilian returns and a war weary Syrian populace to care for.

I must comment on China and its amazing stance in the world. I salute the leadership of China and their tactics. I don't think they should war with the yankee poodle after all they have the empire stretched and thrashing about in the south china sea. North Korea remains their friend and neighbour and you can always rely on the yankees to f#ck up a good chance for a negotiation. China has immense investments in Venezuela and they will tread gently there and I doubt if that will ever be military treads. More likely infrastructure and medical/service type support. China is having fun poking the yankee poodle in the south china sea while expanding and linking is great road and rail to the north and west.

By the way the Joseon King seems like an odd lad as is his entourage:
https://joseon.kr/

Interesting who he meets with and all that.
Thanks barflies and comrades

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Apr 4 2019 9:36 utc | 64

I really miss Friday Lunch Club. :(

Posted by: Peter | Apr 4 2019 9:41 utc | 65

>>>>> DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Apr 3, 2019 5:06:16 PM | 23

Some alternative media sites are trash but some are a mixture of true and false content. If you stick to reading what is their area of expertise and avoid what is outside that, then they can be a useful source of information. For example, Al Masdar News reporting of events in Syria and Lebanon seems fairly trustworthy (probably as much as the SOHR) but I mostly don't bother with their reporting on other topics. It's the same with the MSM and many other "human rights" NGOs, if you ignore their reporting on countries that are regarded as adversaries of the Washington and London, such as Russia, Serbia, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua and particularly Syria, they are mostly reliable sources of information. With these areas I read what the alternative media writes and then go and read what the MSM writes and then decide on who to believe.

Then subsequently I revisit the subject to see what else has happened. For instance, I'm now almost certain that the alleged chemical attack on Khan Sheikhoun was a false flag involving the White Helmets. The reason is trivial but goes to the heart of the issue, and that is that the green "pipe" found in the hole in the road that was alleged to be part of the chemical weapon has not turned up in the west AFAIK, even though alleged victims of the alleged chemical attack reached hospitals in Turkey within hours of the alleged attack. Chemical analysis of the paint on the pipe would reveal what chemicals it had been in contact with at some point in its existence while metallurgical analysis could give a good indication of its source. That it has disappeared tells me that the people who had control of it knew that the claim that it was part of a used chemical weapon was false, and so the rest of the story falls apart. The lesson of this alleged incident is don't embellish the story with evidence you can't back up.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 4 2019 10:07 utc | 66

It's worth reading about Sefton Delmer and his black propaganda operations against the Germans in World War Two. The techniques are still being used by the UK and have been picked up by the United States since. One of his basic techniques was to establish radio station which put out popular music that was banned in Germany to draw the targets, German solders or sailors, in, then deliver true news to establish credibility with the targets before introducing the black propaganda mixed in with the true news to supposedly sow discourse. After a while, he'd kill off the radio station with an "attack" by German security forces resulting in the death of the presenter and the radio station going off the air.
The US IC has an annual budget that currently is $86 billions, so it's entirely possible that the CIA or whoever might create websites that do nothing but put out honest information interspersed with true reports of government wrongdoing to pull in the targets and establish credibility., in the expectation that at a later date the website could be used to publish fake news to target an adversary of the United States. With that amount of money they could afford to keep these black websites going for years before they decide to use them.

Sefton Delmer worked for the now defunct Political Warfare Executive which reported to the Foreign Secretary as did and still do MI6 and GCHQ.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 4 2019 10:32 utc | 67

It happens... we all believed in this news.. because it had all the ingredients to be true. or we wanted it to happen. lol

Posted by: AG17 | Apr 4 2019 12:14 utc | 68

Good forensics.

I like MKB a lot and read his stuff regularly, but it does seem he jumped the gun on this one. This episode reminds me of the rumored Chinese deployment in Syria that never was. A Chinese slap in the face to the US with regard to Venezuela while they are trying to fend off US tariffs and deal with the US campaign against Huawei's 5G roll-out does seem counterintuitive on its face. Why deploy "troops" when civilians can handle aid distribution.

Even the media descriptions of "100 Russian troops" deploying to Venezuela is misleading, since they are really uniformed technical specialists, not an infantry company, as the word "troops" would indicate. In that case, of course, the media is being deliberately misleading as part of its Russia-obsession.

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Apr 4 2019 12:33 utc | 69

re. Venezuela / (fake) news / narrative control:

Just came upon this after seeing a short note on Sputnik (not the best source, yep).
It claims that Venezuela's power grid was disabled by a combined cyber and EMP attack.
Honestly don't know what to think of it, opinions?
I was in Vz long enough to know that both 'neglect' and 'sabotage' are plausible explanations, as is a combination of both...

(never heard of this website, don't know if it's reliable)
https://mronline.org/2019/03/28/reconstructing-the-history-of-the-electricity-sabotage-in-venezuela/

Luis Motta Dominguez, Minister of Electric Power ... event was an act of sabotage to the main hydroelectric plant in the Guri Dam. President Maduro ... reported that the attack on the national electric system occurred through three modalities.

The first type [was the hacking of] the main computer and control systems [...]

The second was through the use of electromagnetic pulse devices [...]

The third type was physical: [direct attacks on] the intermediate platforms of electric distribution...

Posted by: smuks | Apr 4 2019 12:59 utc | 70

Informationclearinghouse carried this false article. About 2 hours ago, I was trying to login to ich, to warn Tom Feeley, it was most probably fake, by linking the article here. Whilst attempting to do so, ich was taken down with the message "This Account Has Been Suspended" Maybe someone can warn Tom Feeley, by other methods eg Twitter which I don't use. He runs an excellent website, but made a mistake, and published the false article, and ends up closed down. Maybe that was the intention of it.

Tony

Posted by: Tonyopmoc | Apr 4 2019 13:39 utc | 71

Grieved
I owe you an apology. You were being diplomatic and I was being defensive. I apologize. I have some of the same complaints, and maybe a few others. For the most part though, it's a very good forum with lost of interesting perspectives.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 13:45 utc | 72

Posted by: Alaric | Apr 3, 2019 3:26:41 PM | 7
is no reason to be down on it, everyone needs some fun

what are your main objections to MSM? Not enough fun? What makes me wonder about Zero Hedge are less the articles, they offer their own perspective on "sacred facts", its more the comment section that keeps me off.

Posted by: Otto | Apr 4 2019 14:26 utc | 73

The silence is deafening appears to prove my point. Adieu!

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 14:44 utc | 74

During the hot period of the Syrian War Al Masdar was a good source. Of course, there is a fog of war, but the people running the site are from Syria, have contacts in Syria and were in the position to analyze and, in many instances, to check. In general, it was helpful that various individuals and organizations were doing that, people err even when they have contacts and expertise.

This is a small outfit and my guess would be that they may have one person watching other international news part time, or they just pay attention to interesting and unusual which is a fallible approach. There is a thread of wishful thinking expecting China to exercise their influence and potential more energetically giving more hope to designated targets of "the West". In actuality, China is a crucial partner for Venezuela, and it is good to see that they actually do what they know how to do. E.g. Russia is a questionable partner as a potential oil importer. Air shipment of medicines was a good show giving a distinction between genuine and phony concern about the human hardships.

But I suspect that there is more. There was a news item about threats issued by American authorities to all companies that would provide gasoline to Venezuela. Most of Venezuela oil is so heavy that it has to be "lightened" before transporting by tankers (and pipelines?), and USA managed to cut off from the use of traditional partners producing gasoline, Curacao, Trinidad (?) and Venezuelan-owned refineries in Texas. It had a major impact on production, contrary to the blather of Elliot Abrams about "bad maintainance", if bad maintainance were sufficiently reducing Venezuelan production, why issue vicious threats about gasoline?

Now, to counter such economic sabotage one has to create companies that trade oil and gasoline with zero activity in USA, make sure that they can get insurance, credit to rent ships etc. in other words, this requires some economic heft.

The cooperation of Russia and China gives reasons for optimism, not least because they complement each other. Russia has enough wheat that they may have trouble selling all of it, and good reputation for expertise in cyber sabotage and security operations. China has money and vast mercantile experience. Etc/

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 4 2019 15:10 utc | 75

Interesting opinion, Chinese prospective.

...
Xing Guangcheng, director of the Institute of Chinese Borderland Studies at CASS

There is cognitive divergence between China and Russia. Chinese believe "development is the absolute principle," while Russians' priority is security. Such difference leads to misunderstanding, which affects joint development...


China and Russia should address lack of equilibrium in ties: experts

Posted by: ex-SA | Apr 4 2019 15:25 utc | 76

Hello. The venezuelan officer in the middle is Padrino Lopez, the minister of defense.

Posted by: José Sillos | Apr 4 2019 15:51 utc | 77

Karlof1 @77

This racist and misogynist left-of-identity-politics troll has not skipped your posts, but simply does not have anything useful to post is response.

Well, there is one observation: Reverse image searches of the picture of the Chinese and Venezuelan officers together do not turn up any results NOT related to the article Hoarsewhisperer linked or older than five days. The image does look like real Chinese and real Venezuelan officers, though that could be hoaxed. More importantly, unless the fake news is being professionally manufactured, images used in it will be stock or file images or stuff found in image searches, which means that a reverse image search should turn up prior instances of the image being used somewhere else. That is not the case here, so I am leaning towards the image being a legitimate recent picture taken during arranged interaction between the PLA and FANB about five days ago. This suggests that some Chinese military personnel may have accompanied the humanitarian aid delivery, though as PavewayIV points out likely far less than 120 troops. As well, they seem more likely to be advisers and trainers, though another possibility is that they are technical specialists working on a joint project/operation (intelligence sharing? Joint cyber warfare unit?) doing a meet-and-greet. To me the latter seems more likely considering what has been going on lately.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 4 2019 16:00 utc | 78

William Gruff @78--

I used that type of image search to bust Romance Scammers who would use porn star pics for their profile photos, so I'm familiar with the process. As with Russia, I don't doubt China has provided technical experts to help Venezuela deal with the cyber attacks, just as I'm sure some went to Iran previously for the same reason. The point of the current exercise is to sow doubt about the credibility/reliability of b's reporting, and b chose to respond as he did. He made an executive decision, and what's done is done.

As for the numerous attempts to shape particular narratives, I've decided to keep my own council having been previously fooled by trolls masquerading as regular commentators. Time as an asset is finite and is too valuable to waste on trivial pursuits which is what the trolls want to occur. Oh, and thanks much for your reply!

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 17:24 utc | 79

The tweet is dated 6:54am on April 1st. Bhadrakumar has been April-fooled, and didn't even take the trouble to make basic checks on plausibility, even on 1st April! Shame on him.

The original tweeter probably knew exactly what he was doing.

Posted by: BM | Apr 4 2019 17:34 utc | 80

Karlof1
I must have missed something. I saw your comment @74 and had no idea what you were talking about so I scrolled back through this thread and you've only left one comment addressed to Jen. Then your comment @79 about trolls masquerading as regular commentators. I am clueless as to what you are upset about. What did I miss?

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 17:53 utc | 81

William Gruff
Just because you don't like someone's politics, it doesn't mean they are a troll.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 17:54 utc | 82

William Gruff
Also, if that left-of-identity-politics was for me, and we both know it was, thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. As for the racist misogynist bits, those are yours until you take your own advice regarding blindspots.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 18:21 utc | 83

Saw the Zerohedge article.... didn't seem right at the time and now MOA verifies my suspicion.

ZH is after clicks. They post news that is either unconfirmed or days old but sometimes they hit a good piece so I venture there every so often. Their commenters aren't the classiest for sure. All the really knowledgeable commenters have left or been banned for various reasons. Years ago it was a great site for financial info. They (ZH) fell for the ads. So many ads one has a hard time reading the articles. Today there is no need for financial info as the FED controls everything and the stocks just go up... For all practical purposes,,, A no risk computer driven boring government controlled 'market'.

MOA has few articles and they are usually well sourced. Commenters are for the most part pretty knowledgeable. One of the handful of decent sites left.

Posted by: ken | Apr 4 2019 18:49 utc | 84

mourning dove @81--

My comment relates to the one I made here announcing the photo evidence of Chinese troops in Venezuela. Note that the linked tweet was made on March 30, and so is not an April Fool's Day act. Also note that through all the remaining comments on that large thread, there are zero replies to my comment. Not even the trolls tried to attack what's been deemed a provocative action on China's part. Perhaps now you understand my consternation.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 18:56 utc | 85

mourning dove @82

I do not think that people suffering from the acquired mental disorder known as "identity politics" are trolls and I challenge you (yet another futile challenge that will never be met) to point out where I claimed that. On the contrary, I believe that the crippling self-pity such people are afflicted with is very much real and their distress at my failure to recognize the elevated status that they believe should naturally follow from their afflictions is altogether heartfelt and genuine.

If it irks so much that I rail against the population being programmed with "identity politics" by the establishment and corporate mass media then I suggest you examine the difference between the "identity politics" intersectionality of the nouveau faux-left with the unity of the old fashioned traditional left as represented by this simple image.

I doubt that will spur an instant epiphany, but I do hope it is something that returns for you to ponder the next time a women's march gets cancelled because it is too white or something silly like that.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 4 2019 18:57 utc | 86

BM @80--

See mine @85.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 19:01 utc | 87

Contrary to some I dont need to name, I rather enjoy Mr. Gruff's posts. Carry on..

Posted by: Lozion | Apr 4 2019 19:29 utc | 88

Chinahand linked to a thread discussing a new House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee PDF publication: "China and the Rules-Based International System." The point he raised:

"good thread imo. point 3 interesting when considering if a certain anxious superpower decides all those rules is not only constraining it but accelerating its decline & goes 'revolutionary.'"

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 20:13 utc | 89

Karlof1 @ 85:

I had seen that photo of the two Venezuelan soldiers posing with the three Chinese military guys in the tweet that you linked to but decided not to comment until there was more information about it. I assumed that the photo - which looks like PR - had been taken in the context of a Chinese ship recently delivering medical supplies in Venezuela. It would make sense if some Chinese soldiers were on board the ship to safeguard the delivery of the medicines.

After seeing José Sillos' comment @ 77, I Googled Vladimir Padrino López's name to find images of him and the images indeed match the figure in the middle of the photograph. So it indeed was a PR event.

Why that image has started to appear now, who knows, but there have been reports in Western news media that some time over December 2018 / January 2019 López asked Maduro to resign as President of Venezuela or he himself would resign as Defense Minister. So the image may have been put out to show that López is still Defense Minister and most likely has never demanded Maduro's resignation. The disinformation was obviously put out to give Western audiences the impression that Venezuelan armed forces were no longer loyal to Maduro's government.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 4 2019 21:17 utc | 90

Re my comment @ 90: sorry, I realise I should have said "plane" where I said "ship". (It's early in the morning here in Sydney!)

Posted by: Jen | Apr 4 2019 21:23 utc | 91

Jen @90&91--

Thanks for your reply! Your reasoning is sensible, and it might have been related to the visit by China's hospital ship. A counter to disinfo is quite plausible. Greg Wilpert of VA has produced a vid attempting to explain the roots of Venezuela's economic crisis. Apparently, the electrical power situation's greatly improved.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 4 2019 21:58 utc | 92

William Gruff
Left of identity politics is WAY left, I'll take that, and I'll pass on the offer of a lesson on what it means. Cough*mansplaining*. Your comment is dripping with so much patriarchy that it was actually amusing. But hey, I'm not trying to fight with you, I'm a peace freak.
I kinda think I'm speaking to you with more respect than you are showing me, and I'm doing that in the spirit of rational conversation and a willingness to consider another person's views, and to offer my own.
If you point me to a group in the US that is not currently discriminated against as an example of victim culture, your position might have merit. Pointing to groups which are currently being discriminated against is victim blaming. That's actually the very definition of hubris by supporting a system that victimized people and adds insult to injury by blaming the victim for the abuse they have suffered.

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 22:02 utc | 93

William Gruff
As to your challenge, I accept and point you to the first sentence of your comment @78.

Peace

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 4 2019 22:08 utc | 94

mourning dove @94

Your embrace of institutionalized self-pity seems to have damaged your cognitive abilities and reading comprehension. You sez: "I... point you to the first sentence of your comment @78" as an example of my claiming that sadly damaged identity politics victims are trolls. Let us recap that sentence below:

"This racist and misogynist left-of-identity-politics troll has not skipped your posts, but simply does not have anything useful to post is[sic... oops!] response."

Maybe you are unaccustomed to the printed word, or perhaps you are just twelve, or maybe the sentence pattern I used is more archaic than I think, but a message leading with "This [adjective adjective noun]..." is a standard way for an author to refer to him/herself. In other words, that first sentence refers to me.

How conceited and self-centered you must be to imagine that everything is always about you. But then, narcissism is part and parcel of the identity politics personality disorder. Sadly, it is a fact that individuals in western cultures are achieving emotional maturity decades later (if ever) than they did in prior generations and are retaining the egocentrism from early childhood well past the point of physical maturity. This, sadly, makes it terribly easy for the establishment elites to manipulate them like remote-controlled toys.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 4 2019 23:39 utc | 95

William Gruff @95--

For clarity, I knew you were being self-referential. I actually had a short chuckle when I first read it. I try to remain non-judgmental and aloof from subjectivism as I've no time to devote to such pursuits.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 5 2019 0:17 utc | 96

China leads the field in anti-ship missiles, some of which could be installed/provided without being noticed. Margarita Island would be an ideal place for them. It would behoove the Chinese to provide these surreptitiously as to maximize their effect if needed.

Posted by: Haassaan | Apr 5 2019 3:04 utc | 97

William Gruff
I'm not going to fight with you and this will be my last comment, but I took your comment on this thread as a passive aggressive non-response to my comment @99 on the previous day's thread. I don't think I'm wrong about that, you even referenced the same issue and replicated a technique I'd employed in that comment by connecting certain words with hyphens. Mind games and pretence don't interest me, I'm not going to play.

Peace

Posted by: mourning dove | Apr 5 2019 9:35 utc | 98

According to MEMRI, 1 August 2018, the military attaché to Syria made the statement: "We are Willing to Participyte 'In Some Way' in the Battle For Idlib Alongside the Assad Army"; quoted by Thomas Pany: "Idlib: China unterstützt Baschar al-Assad", Telepolis, 4 August 2018. - Against the background of b's information concerning the non-participation of Chinese troops in Venezuela, how likely would it be that Chinese troops participate actively alongside troops loyal to Assad? Has anyone an opinion or informations?

Posted by: Thomas Bargatzky | Apr 5 2019 10:44 utc | 99

mourning dove @98: Indeed my reference to my being racist and misogynist was a reflection of having been labeled as such in your prior day post @99. Since within the identity politics ideological framework any rejection of identity politics itself is by definition racist and misogynist and worse (fascist!) I am left with little choice but to allow the labels to stand, at least among those afflicted with identity politics.

To tie this tangential discussion back in with China I would like to mention a term that gets used in online discussions in China about what passes for the left in the West (mostly America). The term is 白左 ("baizuo") and translates literally as "white left". It is derogatory. Not having been raised immersed in the capitalist propaganda that seeks to inoculate the western populations against thinking real leftist thoughts, Chinese people have little difficulty seeing identity politics as a perverse corruption of leftist thought, twisting it into a self-defeating and self-flagellatory toxin that poisons discourse and paralyzes movements. From outside the identity politics bubble, the Chinese can readily see that "baizuo" culture is terminal, like cancer. This is part of what gives the Chinese so much optimism for the future belonging to China. Personally I would prefer to see America do the difficult thing and turn away from this fate, for which a turn away from identity politics is a prerequisite, but I suppose it may be a historical necessary for empire to self-destruct instead of reforming itself.

Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 5 2019 11:21 utc | 100

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