All this for a limited hangout…interesting. Just another distraction so people chase their tails with tales. So soon to forget that when Manning was arrested wiki had a donations drive for her defense/kept the money till her atty finally called them out and wiki sent a pittance. Manning has more integrity than all of wiki combined. Did his handlers throw him under the bus? Possibly/they are known to eat their own. I’m sorry to see so many have fallen for this.

Posted by: Observing | Apr 12 2019 21:01 utc | 303

Whitney Webb:

[…]
With Assange now in U.K. custody, his fate will mirror our own, as Assange’s fate and that of journalists around the world, as well as the public itself, are increasingly intertwined. After all, those who are after Assange and seek to rob him of his freedom — the U.S. Empire, the “deep state,” the shadow government, the global elite, etc. — are after our freedom as well.
If we remain silent as they jail, extradite, torture or even kill this man, we may expect a similar fate for ourselves. It will not come tomorrow. It will not come next week. It could be years away. But make no mistake, the global empire, whose core is the U.S. government, will now be empowered to charge and imprison anyone it deems a threat to its operations.
Those operations, including those that Assange helped to expose, often involve the mass murder of innocent civilians — untold numbers of children among them — in order to loot the resources of other sovereign nations. They also often involve the installation of puppet governments by either covert (e.g., election “meddling”) or overt (e.g., regime-change wars) means.
Those responsible for the most egregious violations of international law, for war crimes, for the slaughter of innocent life, are not imprisoned, degraded or tortured — they are rewarded and promoted. As we have seen today — and in recent weeks, particularly following Chelsea Manning’s imprisonment — those who seek to expose these crimes are the ones who are threatened, tortured and punished.

Posted by: jsb | Apr 12 2019 21:29 utc | 305

pat lang hasn’t said a thing either…

Posted by: james | Apr 12 2019 21:55 utc | 307

@Arioch #259:

LOL, but that would need
1) agreement and common schedule with Assange himself, who was isolated by Ecuador
2) making it to the embassy without being blocked in the way. Limo is under protection, but the road before it is not.
3) warranty there is no “unknown snipers” around, securing the arrest and cleaning things if Assange would somehow manage to break free

1) Assange was not completely isolated by Ecuador. Cassandra Fairbanks visited him two weeks ago. The plan could be described in two or three sentences, telling him the exact time the limo would appear and asking him if he agrees to the plan.
2) Diplomatic cars have freedom of movement (within a predetermined zone set by the host country). For example, when a diplomatic car causes a traffic accident, the police can’t do anything.
3) My understanding is that the Russian ambassador’s limo is armored. The snipers would not dare to shoot at the limo with the Russian ambassador inside. Assange jumping from the balcony (or storming out the front door) would be such a wild, unexpected thing that the police and intelligence services would have no time to react. Assange would watch the road from his balcony window, then make the move the minute he’d see an approaching black Mercedes with diplomatic license plates.
Of course, it’s a crazy plan that sounds like a scene from a Jason Bourne movie, but it was doable.

Posted by: S | Apr 12 2019 22:05 utc | 309

goldhoarder @306–
Corbyn and company are more active than what twitter reveals as this article shows. Diane Abbot wrote:
“In this country we have protections for whistle-blowers, those who take personal risk to disclose wrongdoing in the public intrest [sic]. Julian Assange is not being pursued to protect US national security. He is being pursued because he has exposed wrongdoing by US administrations.”
And the exposure of such wrong-doing’s protected by UK law is the great implication.
The contrast to Bernie Sanders actions on this terribly important issue also speaks volumes, but in a negative manner as revealed here:
“A day after Julian Assange was arrested, Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders took the time to post a video… about himself. Fans quickly flooded the comments, demanding that Sanders take a stand for Assange.”
Many are making Sanders’s position on Assange–not Medicare For All–the primary litmus test regarding their continuing support. His failure to denounce HRC and DNC behavior during 2016 is being compared/likened to his lack of a prompt statement of support for Assange.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 12 2019 22:17 utc | 311

@Arioch #265:

I remember Snowden tried to leak something about Russia. “Grim non-smiling men” quickly came to him and took his whistle away. He was clearly told that Russia does not care about his crusade for abstract good and fairness, that he would keep silent about any Russian transgression he learns of. If that makes him feel accomplice – he better come to terms with his conscience, or else.
Snowden got the message and learnt to be humble, to lay low.

I was following the Snowden saga from the very beginning and I remember no such thing. Care to give a link?
The reality seems to be the opposite of what you claim. Firstly, Snowden is working at Yandex, which has a very pro-Western stance (its employees frequenting opposition rallies, etc.). Secondly, he openly decried Russian traffic collection system SORM on multiple occasions, yet nothing bad happened to him.
Please don’t slander the Russian government. Yes, there are certain limits in Russia when it comes to free speech: you can’t promote ISIS and Nazi ideology, you can’t advocate for secession of Crimea from Russia, and you can’t promote homosexual relations to minors. These things are illegal. But other than that, you can say or post whatever you want. There is some narrative control over media outlets, but not over individuals.

Posted by: S | Apr 12 2019 22:46 utc | 313

Circe: @301
… give me an option that can get on the ballot in all the states?
I have no doubt that the establishment will provide you with an anti-Trump option in 2020. Maybe that’ll be Sanders. But both Trump and the Trump alternative will be 100% establishment.
Better to spend your time and energy on real alternatives than to play the duopoly game.
… but you have to admit that, by exposing the Dems for their anti-Bernie machinations and for who they really are, Assange did improve Trump’s odds.
No. YOU have to admit that it was not Assange but the person/persons that leaked the DNC emails improved Trump’s odds.
Many people believe that that person was Seth Rich. However, as I’ve repeatedly said, Kissinger called for MAGA in 2014 and Trump was the MAGA candidate. In fact, he was the ONLY MAGA candidate and the ONLY populist on the Republican side.
Ask yourself: if Trump was the “chosen one”, and was slated to win anyway, then what did publishing the DNC emails really do? Answer: it tied Wikileaks to Russiagate. The case was made that “Russia meddled in our democracy” in many ways – including through Wikileaks.
The DNC emails has all the hallmarks of an intelligence agency operation. The FBI didn’t do their job. The Rich family is not credible (go look at the videos on youtube!). And the supposed connection to hacker Gluccifer was all made up.
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
The Deep State’s strategy in 2016 was to elect a nationalist and initiate a new anti-Russian McCarthism. All the wierdness surrounding the election can be traced to these major goals.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 12 2019 23:24 utc | 315

donkeytale
Thanks for taking the time to write all that.
You’re right about a lot of what you say. But playing their game is only walking down the garden path.
Caitlin Johnstone makes the point that we have the tools to fight the narrative control that binds us. We just lack the will.
Some people will chose to fight. Some will chose to play the game. I can’t decide for you or anyone else.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 12 2019 23:34 utc | 317

Circe
So you’re going to ignore what I wrote @315?
You’re urging people to play a rigged game and by doing so to confer legitimacy on a corrupt system.
I will not do that. The choice I make is to resist. However small or meaningless you may think that resistance to be, it is my choice.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 13 2019 0:29 utc | 319

An option that can get on the ballot in all states? Well, look who came very close despite the odds in 2016:
https://www.jill2016.com/ballot_access
Anyone else care to help keep building on that foundation?

Posted by: John Anthony La Pietra | Apr 13 2019 1:54 utc | 321

@Peter Grafström @russ
These guys get it. Assad and Snowden are pawns – controlled deceptions. We all want heroes but they won’t be handed down to us by the MSM. Be extremely cautious of all alternative media

Posted by: S.r. | Apr 13 2019 2:18 utc | 323

Jackrabbit @318
If Americans can’t organise and learn to express their political choices via the ballot box, to make demands on their politicians and hold them to account then it’s an absolute certainty they won’t be able to do so via the streets.
I opted out of voting for many decades, many others did so as well. Nothing happened, things just got worse.
Westerners, compared to peoples of the rest of the world, lack the ability to cooperate with eachother. Only in France is their signs of a potentional revolution but if it turns violent what chance will they have against the arms of the state? None.
The vote is the only thing you have, it is something that was handed down from struggles won in the past. Lose the right to vote and westerners won’t be ever be strong enough to recover it. Not voting is a vote for serfdom.

Posted by: ADKC | Apr 13 2019 2:56 utc | 325

wiki’s manifesto re-visited/…
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/04/real-journalism.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef016765485cfb970b

Posted by: denk | Apr 13 2019 3:29 utc | 327

No one can save this country (U$A), but the masses. Have a favorite candidate? Have a favorite web-site? OK, then donate $. That’s how the elites do it..
Without the $ to buy air-time, no message can reach the masses, and that’s what it will take. TV time folks, it’s how the bulk of the masses receive their info.
Town hall with Bernie Sanders on Fox “news” the 15th @ 6:30 ET.
Nothing can change, regrettably, without the message, whatever it is, being on TV.
Sad, but true.

Posted by: ben | Apr 13 2019 3:49 utc | 329

The MoA commentariat is certainly voluminous about this subject
That said,
Why won’t the elite get away with anything they want with Assange just like SA did with Jamal Khashoggi? The US will make more of a show of it perhaps to keep the zombies enthralled but the end result will be the same, an open show of control/suppression…..I am still not convinced that the Trump faction is 100% behind this move and it is more infighting among the elite….which would be pointing to more empire demise…..we hope

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 13 2019 4:37 utc | 331

Circe 317
“Bernie was against Iraq”
That’s a lie.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/12/no-bernies-not-anti-war/
Sanders’ vote against the Iraq war authorization in 2002, like Obama’s (and unlike Hillary’s) is held up as some real anti-war cred, but as St. Clair writes:
“More problematic for the Senator in Birkenstock’s is the little-known fact that Bernie Sanders himself voted twice in support of regime change in Iraq. In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: ‘It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.’
“Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: ‘Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.’ These measures gave congressional backing for the CIA’s covert plan to overthrow the Hussein regime in Baghdad, as well as the tightening of an economic sanctions regime that may have killed as many as 500,000 Iraqi children. The resolution also gave the green light to Operation Desert Fox, a four-day long bombing campaign striking 100 targets throughout Iraq. The operation featured more than 300 bombing sorties and 350 ground-launched Tomahawk cruise missiles, several targeting Saddam Hussein himself” [pp. 37-38].
St. Clair adds: “Recall that over the 8 years of Clinton Time, Iraq was bombed an average of once every four days.”
See the rest of the piece for Sanders’ long, consistent record of being a war criminal.

Posted by: Russ | Apr 13 2019 5:05 utc | 333

1st Wikileaks dump after JA’s arrest on 12160.info. Analysis of doc on Barnes & Noble on 4Chan’s /pol/. Let the scatterlings convene.

Posted by: Kula | Apr 13 2019 5:54 utc | 335

I was pondering the process and timing of the entire mess. Thinking the UK will be in any way resistant to a US warrant regardless of who is in #10 is foolish thinking. Thinking that the US will not pile on new charges is also foolish. This can be accomplished by merely passing a memo to the UK once JA is in the US and getting their agreement after the fact. Getting a fair trial in the US is impossible and very likely as this has been elevated to a terrorism charge to get past the 5 year statute of limitations means it will be a secret trial and the defense will not have access to any evidence that is classified. So, a fair trial is out. But, then you have the dead man switch problem.
If one recalls that Craig Murray was the one who received the DNC emails from an insider and carried that to Assange the entire RussiaGate mess falls apart. We may reasonably assume that it was Seth Rich who did that and he was subsequently murdered likely by the FBI who then ran the investigation and of course no suspects were ever found. Yet another to be added to the very long list of suspicious deaths of people who run up against the Clinton machine. Add in the Skripals (very likely dead now as no one has seen them for a very long time) who very likely were the source of the Russia garbage used in the MI-6 produced Steele Dossier used to justify the illegal wiretapping and spying on the Trump campaign. As a side note recall the massive scandal which caused the Nixon administration to be decapitated for merely burglarizing the other sides campaign HQ. Here you have a complete surveillance of the opponents using the government’s own systems to include GCHQ which was operating physically at the NSA building. If the scenario was that Julia Skripal was over to help her father return to Russia in exchange for information and that the 2 GRU operatives were there to hand over passports and were merely messengers and that if the Steele dossier were to be proved to be a hit job on trump, then the Skripals must be eliminated. I believe this is exactly what happened and the evidence is clear they have disappeared likely forever. So, JA is in the same boat now. He must have all of Clinton’s emails and perhaps a treasure trove of other material out there hanging like the sword of Damocles. We still haven’t seen 95% of the Snowden material which contains names and dates. Personally, I would love all that to be released so we can see for ourselves the extent of corruption in the US and the US sphere of influence. Of course, this cannot happen and I am fully convinced Assange will die of natural causes before he ever enters a US court room. But, that dead man switch is still out there and likely in someone else’s hands. We are already seeing anyone connected with Wikileaks being disappeared.
I also believe Trump was the fall guy for the election and there was no intent for him to win. He was clearly as shocked as everyone else, but has very quickly fallen in line. I agree with the hypothesis that all US elections are rigged and that a gay candidate is next. The Deep State will continue unabated until it over-extends itself. Very clearly politics in the US are setup to keep the populace unbalanced and not focused on what is really happening. It is truly Orwellian.

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Apr 13 2019 6:38 utc | 337

@335 Russ
I would say that supporting Sanders and the platform he’s running on is 100 times better than apologizing day after day for all the shet Trump has pulled already and still hanging on for him to do something good for a change, and before you jump to write that giving nice lip service to Putin is a hopeful sign so let’s give him more chances, I’d ask you to list what concrete steps he’s taken to follow up his lip service with actions.
Here’s an example:
Recently, Trump has been trying to kill the Nordstream II pipeline and the latest threat he’s making is imposing sanctions to stop it. All this to benefit U.S. gas exports and protect Ukraine’s interests.
So how long will you apologists keep on apologizing and ridiculing others for supporting someone decent who’s inspired a more courageous breed of politicians? Or are you just suckers for more Trump deception and corruption? And that’s not a cult?

Posted by: Circe | Apr 13 2019 7:27 utc | 339

About Trump and Assange
There is no advantage for Trump coming to Assange’s aid at the moment. If he did now, he’d be accused by the Democrats and the American MSM of being a Putin-loving Commie traitor. And at the moment, Assange is sat in the UK waiting for what could be a long drawn-out extradition process to start which might not be complete by the 2020 election, so he’s in no immediate danger of ending up in solitary in a Federal Supermax. Given his obvious health problems, he’s probably better off in prison than in the Ecuadorean embassy as I doubt the British Government want the embarrassment of accusations that they mistreated him. And with Barr running the DoJ, it may be possible for Trump to throw a spanner in the works of the extradition process to drag it out even longer. In the meantime, Trump can get on with his swamp draining of the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. which seems to have started being rolled out.
In the longer term, there is an advantage for Trump doing something about Assange. There is no doubt that Wikileak’s release of the HRC and DNC helped Trump win (which is not the same as saying that Trump won because of Wikileak), so if Trump wants help from third parties he probably needs to assist Assange to encourage them but he can probably do that after he’s been re-elected.
On the other hand Trump might be a complete shit……

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 13 2019 8:52 utc | 341

@Posted by: Emily Dickinson | Apr 12, 2019 12:47:40 PM | 276
Thank you, Emily, feel free to correct my usual grammar mistakes so that I can learn more.
I am aware of my shortcomings, but do as much I can with my scarce English learnt many years ago in a local public Language School, not even had the opportunity to go on interchange, like they do today´s high school students, my parents simply could not afford it.
You would think I could continue learning now, but, you see, with my job, my home and the daily fight agsint fascism, just there is no time left. I am already sacrifying time from my other obligations, and even sleep time, for the fight….

Posted by: Sasha | Apr 13 2019 10:02 utc | 343

Trump surely didn’t care about Assange one way or the other. Matter of fact, he seemed way more concerned about “locking up” Clinton and never mentioned going after Wikileaks. Only it turns out they weren’t actually going after Clinton, they fairly quickly – and quietly – went after Assange. So why did his DoJ file these charges and pursue extradition of Assange during his first year in office? And why would they do so knowing that Obama’s DoJ had already looked at the laws and decided that the case should not/could not be pursued? Because he and Sessions were so concerned with the “rule of law” and the strict adherence to legal exactitude? Ri-i-i-ight. LOL.
This whole thing sure looks like Trump doing Hillary Clinton a favor, or a payback. She’s the one who was lusting for Assange’s blood for years; she even suggested to Obama that they could just drone bomb him at one point. Just saying.

Posted by: teri | Apr 13 2019 10:29 utc | 345

More Assange Newslinks
https://williambowles.info/2019/04/13/assange-newslinks-13-april-2019/
https://williambowles.info/2019/04/12/julian-assange-newslinks-11-12-april-2019/

Posted by: Barovsky | Apr 13 2019 11:31 utc | 347

Sasha @ various.
Sorry, I’m not buying your second-hand bs.
Are you blind AND stupid?
Assange published The Swamp’s Collateral Murder video from the Iraq FAKE war. The Swamp is angry about proof of its malfeasance being made widely available. The Swamp owns most of AmeriKKKa’s politicians and is is now trying, moronically and in vain, to paint Assange’s whistle-blowing as more criminal than The Swamp’s mass murder.
No-one is buying it (except an anonymous “Sasha”).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 13 2019 12:41 utc | 349

@Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 13, 2019 8:41:27 AM | 348
You are free to buy whatever you may find is worth it, the sam as I do.
I am also astonished at how blind and stupid you look by buying Farsange second hand bs.
Amongst collateral murder video from the Iraq fake war, Frasange has alos published information which compromise the truth about Iran nuclear program and favors the current tendence towards war against Iran, as his former Syria files favoured the wot on Syria…
Have you read the articles linked and those linked by Barovsky which i have just finished reading and are far better that the linked by me?
Why do you take it with me I wonder when there are other commenters her who do not swallow the Wikileaks fake freedom of information opertaion.
And, btw, I am so anonymous “Sacha” as you are anonymous “Hoarsewhisperer”, are you going to tell me that that is your real name?
The fact is that all of you who attack me for bringing in interesting information which cast legitimate doubts about Assange´s real nature, only came with insults and intents on ridiculize and discredit me ( well, nothing new, since this was the same treatment applied to me when i naround the 2016 election I posted against Trump…) but add nothing to prove the “activist” nature of Assange.
Try to debunk the information provided with fact, otherwise it´s you who seem moronic, blind and stupid.

Posted by: Sasha | Apr 13 2019 13:02 utc | 351

Honestly a lot of the posters here need to wander a bit further afield than the same old lefty sites run by decrepit boomers.
If you went to 8chan where that vertically challenged fuckwit who murdered all those people in NZ hung out you would see threads full of the same nonsense as what the two 15 year old virgins have posted in this thread.
There is nothing for them to prove, it isn’t about that, I suppose some bullying father bashed the usual rightist american stupidities into ’em so on one level the attempts to spread lies about Assange are them trying to impress a dad whose iq is exceeded by his neck size, but really the point of it is to provoke outrage.
Then these two cretins who are too scared to talk to girls can giggle amongst emselves on discord or whatever about the silly old hippies losing cos they said Julian Assange was a state plant blah blah.
Every time someone responds to the pair of needledick nonces, it only serves to encourage more slanders.
If is f**king stupid and it goes nowhere, these kids all ran a million miles away from the christchurch murderer most likely because 99% of em are chickenshits who wet their pants when they see a flash of boobie, so they now claim christchurch was a phoney and done by crisis actors, something that has twisted up the murderer.
On a kiwi blog somewhere last week I saw a post by a wardern at the jail the little creep has been locked up in, no visitors, books, tv, nothing so one of the screws thought it would be amusing to show that c*nt what his ‘cobbers’ thought about him so he printed out a couple of pages of a thread where all the right wing turkeys kids were rabbiting on about how the shootings didn’t happen that they were just a plot to take away US 2nd amendment rights that sort of self obsession where everything is about them and america is so typical of these infants.
Anyway the little c*nt flipped right out when he saw all his heroes weren’t saluting him, they were denying he was real. He spun out so bad screaming and trying to run into the steel door head first that they had to kick off the suicide watch protocol over again.
this is the type of smelly nonentity that a bloke scrapes off the soles of his boots after a stroll , trying to engage it or even acknowledging it is pointless.

Posted by: Did | Apr 13 2019 13:22 utc | 353

assange had never herd of 9 and 11
dancing yahoo
israli arts projects b thing and gelatine
he had plenty of intel on is reels enemy
for plenty arab spring
but nothing on gaza or palestine
those tel avivers got a clean bill of health from mind control ass ange
who was he really workin for
you know
yahoo
why not ask a nazi from
khazaria

Posted by: moana | Apr 13 2019 14:00 utc | 355

No new postings here or on Craig Murray’s site since Assange’s arrest Thursday. What gives?

Posted by: lysias | Apr 13 2019 14:45 utc | 357

My @357 correction Sanders runs only for the Presidency with Dems but remains an Independent Senator in Congress.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 13 2019 15:09 utc | 359

Old Microbiologist @336
In August 2014, after the defeat of Ukraine’s effort to reclaim control of Dunbas, Kissinger wrote a WSJ Op-Ed: Henry Kissinger on the Assembly of a New World Order

After describing challenges to the West-centric World Order, largely due to the alliance of a re-invigorated Russia and a much stronger China, Kissinger proposes a response that “… progresses through a series of intermediary stages.” Even as the lessons of challenging decades are examined, the affirmation of America’s exceptional nature must be sustained. History offers no respite to countries that set aside their sense of identity in favor of a seemingly less arduous course. But nor does it assure success for the most elevated convictions in the absence of a comprehensive geopolitical strategy.

This was the precursor of MAGA. Trump was the MAGA candidate. He was the ONLY MAGA candidate and the ONLY populist on the Republican side.
The Deep State wanted a nationalist as President. And that’s what they got.
To meet the challenge from Russia and China, they had to alter their strategy from Obama’s COVERT ops to OVERT acts against adversaries that were blocking their initiatives.
The two main goals of the 2016 election was to elect a nationalist and initiate a new McCarthyism. Some of the things that helped to accomplish this were:

1) Hillary’s alienation of important voting blocks (progressives, blacks, white moderates) helped Trump to win the election.
2) Trump’s praise of Putin, his call for Putin and Wikileaks to help his campaign, and his hiring of Manafort helped to further Russiagate and the associated McCarthist atmosphere.
3) The leak of DNC emails is likely to have been a CIA/MI6/Mossad operation to link Wikileaks to “Russian meddling” in the election.

>> the FBI failure to examine the servers makes no sense;
>> the Rich family is not credible (look at their youtube videos!) – their statements and actions are strange;
>> there was a strenuous attempt to blame Russian hacker Guccifer, and that is still the official position despite technical evidence that argues for a leak, not a hack.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 13 2019 15:20 utc | 361

Russ
Mouthing the words precedes political action. Every. Single. Time. Look at the right since Nixon and especially since Reagan. This is the way it is, like it or not. Until and unless there is a revolution in the West, which if it occurs will clearly be fomented by a different generation, probably one that has yet to walk the earth.
While we can find fault with every politician except possibly Mythological Jesus Christ or mythological Prince Gautama, what else is there, politically speaking?
I grok your stance pretty well at this point and agree with it in fact. No politicians will save us. They are all susceptible to the system in which they operate moderating their actions regardless of rhetoric. Unfortunately, I see the slide to the far right as something you (and too many here, imho) are willing to accommodate if not openly support. Because the democrats are just as bad, etc. This cyncicism may prove to be true.
It may also prove to be false.
While openly fascist political control will certainly cause imperialist capitalism to prevail even moreso than “democracy” has allowed, I do recognise the logic behind armageddon first then repair whatever is left of humanity second. Will human nature change in the event?
I could understand the thinking here is there was something beyond nihilism or vague hoping attached. Sorry the way I see it is without a mass movement to change the system we’re forced to work to survive with the tools we have even as we fully recognise the tools are broken.

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 15:45 utc | 363

arby @361
Are you saying there was a deliberate conspiracy to put Trump in the WH?
I think I was very clear in saying that there was a strategy to install a NATIONALIST and initiate a new McCARTHYISM.
It seems clear that Trump was selected to be that Nationalist.
Maybe if they had more time, they would’ve found someone else. IMO their strategy for global domination changed in 2014 so they had to scramble. But it all came together nicely as Trump’s secretive business dealings could be used to further Russiagate (collusion suspicions) which added to “Russia meddled” accusations to produce a new McCarthyism.
…so what?
So they are taking us in a direction that could lead to war whether you like it or not. It’s very similar to the run-up to the Iraq War. America’s blood and treasure will be wasted to protect favored interests.
Hillary is a poor choice for a nationalist leader, and especially a populist one. She has too much baggage. Trump was also able to play “good cop” to the Deep State’s “bad cop” in an effort to bring Russia back into the Western fold. That effort culminated in the Helsinki Summit of July 2018.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 13 2019 16:07 utc | 365

@327 jackrabbit… “No one is above the law” and caitin johnstones post.. i read it and it is more then shameful what is happening here, especially in light of this.. anyone who believes this is full on insane.. –
” After the International Criminal Court (ICC) declined to investigate claims of US atrocities in Afghanistan, US President Donald Trump cheered the decision but said the ICC was “illegitimate” and US and allies beyond its reach.
“This is a major international victory, not only for these patriots, but for the rule of law,” the White House said in a statement, referring to the ICC decision to reject the request to investigate the actions of US military and intelligence officials in Afghanistan.
The US “holds American citizens to the highest legal and ethical standards,” and has consistently refused to join the ICC because of its “broad, unaccountable prosecutorial powers,” threats to US sovereignty, and “and other deficiencies that render it illegitimate,” Trump said in a statement.”
https://www.rt.com/news/456363-victory-trump-icc-atrocities/

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2019 16:14 utc | 367

Besides all that, the demographics of the US and the World are changing. This change will not be denied. Oh yeah, it can be stopped maybe with nuclear or environmental disaster or another huge asteroid armageddon or Jesus returning on a white stallion but those are the get this, the only ways the change will be stopped.
The US Democratic Party increasingly represents this changing demographic regardless of how we view and or approve/disapprove of the ideological basis of the party, which is also changing. No other 3rd party on the horizon is even worth mentioning really. Greens are white Volvo-ists. Bernie himself lacks credibility with minourities. His only real vulnerability he wasted too much time in white Volvo Vermont instead of building coalitions like Bill and Hill. Otherwise, he trounces Hill just as Obama did before hi. Hill is not a good politician (although Jack rabbit thinks she is something else). She sucks on issues and style both, a loss waiting to happen.
I am convinced much of the aging white demographic is not at all driven by class-based fear as much as by conformist, racist resentment and misplaced anger (much of it anger at growing old while all these young kids running around are “coloured”).
Sure, there is an underbelly of poverty stricken ill educated white folks who respond to the dog whistles and who the Demotards clealry no longer have answers for but most Trump voters and Brexiteers are middle class whites responding to dogwhistles and lies not this corroded white underclass. It is majouritarian racism primarily at work within a complex sociological stew of grievances all overheated by the worsening environment.
The death of industrial and trade unions was the end of the white blue collar cohort. Who killed the industrial/trade unions?
After all, it was you and me. I would sing to you.
But is not an easy question to glibly answer. Reagan was voted in for that very purpose by many of the people most hurt by his radical changes.
It was also generational. I sure as hell wasn’t following my dad into the roofing and painting trades. I tasted it as a kid, the pay was fine but the work sucked. (Today try getting your kid or grandkid to mow the lawn). Went to college instead for better or worse. Probably worse. Most of my generation gave up leftist solidarity as we married and had kids, took on mortgages and wanted a “better” life sold by media and adverts filled with merchandise and status symbols.
I’m not immuned myself. Guilty as hell.
So who killed the industrial/trade unions again, which created this slippery slope to devolvewestern society to the point where we now have this volcanic rightwing caucasian reactionary nostalgia enflaming the world?

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 16:21 utc | 369

Jackrabbit and james,
Yet more proof that Trump is against TRANSPARENCY and the TRUTH and all in with the oligarchy that control deep state.
Trump had the State Department deny visas to ICC members and THREATENED SANCTIONS AGAINST THEM. He literally threatened them into dropping the case!
TRUMP IS A FASCIST AND IS THE ENEMY and he is proving it every day!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 13 2019 16:28 utc | 371

nyt has a story about about moreno.read and wept.

Posted by: dahoit | Apr 13 2019 16:34 utc | 373

Assange in 2010 describes what is going on now:
“I started one of the first ISPs in Australia, known as Suburbia, in 1993. Since that time, I’ve been a publisher, and at various moments a journalist. There’s a deliberate attempt to redefine what we’re doing not as publishing, which is protected in many countries, or the journalist activities, which is protected in other ways, as something which doesn’t have a protection, like computer hacking, and to therefore split us off from the rest of the press and from these legal protections. It’s done quite deliberately by some of our opponents. It’s also done because of fear, from publishers like The New York Times that they’ll be regulated and investigated if they include our activities in publishing and journalism.”
same int. as posted previous, Forbes: https://bit.ly/2UUIMbR
So where is/are the defense committee(s)? (please post.. seriously)
The Canton I live in made a request to the capital, Berne, to accept Julian as an asylum seeker, we tried. Request refused.
= = Sidebar. CH survives by skirting about and pandering to the US. Ex. 4 Gitmo prisoners were given asylum, they refused new identities so even accorded interviews – are doing well, great +… There were more, but their identities are secret. = =
In Feb 2019, it was clear to many that trouble was brewing.
The proposition came from the Ppl’s Party (aka right-wing populists) and was supported by the ‘left’, Socialists. Liberals – Radicals opposed, and Christian Democrats abstained.
in F
https://www.rts.ch/info/regions/geneve/10200346-la-ville-de-geneve-veut-que-la-suisse-propose-l-asile-a-julian-assange.html

Posted by: Noirette | Apr 13 2019 16:40 utc | 375

arby too sweeping a generalisation. You are succumbing to the cliched view.
It does make a difference who sits in the oval office even as it is a con game. Ask Manning and Assange for two. Trump has them both jailed.
War is more complex and there are rational reasons for its furtherance.
War is an industry, for one thing a very big employer of people, especially in both the US and Russia. Large cross sections of both nations benefit economically from the “new cold war” which I believe is fake and both US and former USSR are complicit as a means to prop up their economies. Obviously, Russia to a much lesser extent but this is as much a function of their relatively small economy. Seen another way, Russia has the most economic upside to push warlike behaviour.
And, yes, politicians can’t have recession and ending war will cause a steep recession whether their names are Putin or Trump or Obama.
This is the issue at base.
Someone will have to come along and change the dynamic, will probably lose their life nad certainly lose their job as POTUS in the process. Will this be Bernie? Perhaps a starting point but he will never survive if he pulls the whole curtain down on multi-millions of jobs. Therfore, he will be glibly labelled a sell-out by the idealists whose idealism only serves to further reactionism in reality. The far left conundrum first identifed way back when by Karlo Marx hisself.
But as the demographics change, events morph and the politics change along with the demographics maybe the future holds this possibility to end or at least greatly downsize the MIC in both the US and Russia.

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 16:45 utc | 377

Arby@359
The link is: https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2019/03/11/Ecuador-pr1972-imf-executive-board-approves-eff-for ecuador.
Whatever you call it, it is an awful lot of money, and if it is a bribe to secure Assange, they must need him very badly indeed.

Posted by: Montreal | Apr 13 2019 16:52 utc | 379

Sasha,
There is truth to what you say. I’m for protecting Assange’s freedom on principle but he is no sort of great man in any way shape or form.
In fact to me he is very much the typical media whore and drama queen.
If he wasn’t bought off by Russia then he is certainly their dupe.
He’s a rightwing libertardian which means he is an enemy of the masses at the end of the day (btw I say the same of both Snowden and Greenwald) and quite clearly he represents a warning to the butthurt leftist cohort: if you ennable fascism the fascists will eventually string you up anyway.

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 16:59 utc | 381

@381 jackrabbit.. you just have to read this thread to see all sorts of shit manufactured on assange that is so out of whack, it isn’t funny… read donkeys words for an immediate example..

Posted by: james | Apr 13 2019 17:06 utc | 383

Trump has BOTH Manning and Assange incarcerated AND he bullied the ICC first denying travel visas to ICC investigators to conduct their work and then THREATENED sanctions to force the ICC to drop its prosecution of U.S. war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hence muzzling the truth and shackling justice on Iraq and Afghanistan. Remember, Trump pretended to be against Iraq during the campaign. Now why wouldn’t he want TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY??? BECAUSE HE’S A FUCHEN NEOCON STOOGE, THAT’S WHY!
Who does this except for a NEOCON ZIOFASCIST.
And let’s not forget, Assange, in the video mentioned, U.S. rules of engagement against Iran on its border at the time of U.S. occupation of Iraq being illegal and being used to provoke and trigger Iran into war.
Well those rules of engagement have been further distorted when Trump designated a section of the military of sovereign Iran a TERRORIST organization therefore literally throwing the Rules of Engagement handbook out the window to be replaced with ANYTHING GOES.
LOOK AT THE PICTURE THESE PIECES ARE FORMING. IT’S BAD.

Posted by: Circe | Apr 13 2019 17:33 utc | 385

Sasha @276
As a student of Spanish for decades, I know the struggle. I’m glad you took my note in the spirit it was intended. 🙂

Posted by: Emily Dickinson | Apr 13 2019 17:50 utc | 387

James those words were truth spoken regardless of how you feel. You are JR are so freaking predictable huntig for conspiratorial commenters, it cracks me up no end.
I too could rather easily depict Jackrabbit as a disinfo shill for the GOP by his rhetoric but he is imho just speaking his mind. I take no simplified stances on anybody. I admire Assange’s bravery but come nowhere close to hero worshipping him. His political and personal track records both leave much to be desired. I’m not sure about the CIA connection at all, nor do I care ultimately, seems rather doubtful in fact but that angle’s been out there since Assange first hit the bigtime and just like the “Deep State” meme so often invoked, the “CIA” angle is always impossible to disprove…so it’s cheap candy rhetoric in my mind.
As you like to say often when criticised, just calling ’em as I see ’em. If you think I’m a democratic shill all the better. I’ve duped you then. Lol
Snowden of course actually worked for NSA. So he’s always been somewhat clouded by suspicion. The fact he’s know Putin’s guest could someday lead to his forced repatriation too in fact. He exposed what was already well known so it could be said he aided the mainstream recognition and acceptance of social media and technology tools as the ultimate enslavers of humanity. Whether this is good or bad it is pretty clear to me that social media and technology are not helping us overcome our fates. Lol

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 17:54 utc | 389

Ghost Ship you answered your own nonsense. Of course since Citizens United the way elections and candidates are bought is through unlimited donations, including corporate donations to poliitical parties.
Not sure what else needs to be said about Trump or the GOP in that regard.
And yes the Demotards are just as guilty (except they dont get as much CU inspired dark $ support anymore) especially the Clintons and Obama who took gobs of Wall Street cash in particular. Although by the time CU hit in 2010 Obama no longer was able to raise the WS cash he received in 2008.
But the times they are a changing, another singular effect of the Bernie movement.

Posted by: donkeytale | Apr 13 2019 18:07 utc | 391

@387 Ghost Ship
Trump had U.S. billionaires, Israeli billionaires and Zionist Russian oligarchs all backing him with hundreds of millions through different channels supporting him. You have ZERO CREDIBILITY and can’t spin what he did to take down the ICC investigation, can’t spin the fact that both Manning and Assange are behind bars on his watch, can’t spin regime change efforts in Venezuela, can’t spin hiring Bolton, Abrams and putting Pompeo at State, can’t spin everything he’s done for Israel and against Palestinians (too much to mention!), including tearing up the Iran deal, imposing sanctions and designating the IRGC a terrorist organization. You are not high on Trump juice; you are a shill that manufactures and peddles it to others!

Posted by: Circe | Apr 13 2019 18:18 utc | 393

Yesterday I proposed a crazy idea of how the Russian ambassador in London could have used his car to rescue Assange (see comments #258, #259, #309). Today some guy has repeatedly rammed the car of the Ukrainian ambassador in London: Police open fire after Ukrainian ambassador’s car rammed in west London. This is such a weird coincidence it’s as if the MI5 has read my comment and decided to demonstrate how they would counteract my plan.

Posted by: S | Apr 13 2019 20:25 utc | 395

>> When WikiLeaks started blowing whistle on Moreno
> Any proof of this? Wikileaks has publicly denied having anything to do with the Moreno leaks.
@S #360
Good question. I guess i “went with a flow” of “everyone knows”.
Then it is interesting that on wikileak’s site it is quoted, that “Assange’s lawyer in Ecuador, Carlos Poveda, explained that Assange had nothing to do with the publication: “Remember that WikiLeaks has an internal organization and Mr. Assange is no longer in the editor”
This explanation admits the possibility, that Wikipedia is related, but distances it from Assange himself. Maybe it is just lawyer tactics and non-publicly he does not accept any possibiltiy of WikiLeaks being related.
But even then it agrees with me in a claim that Assange IS NOT WikiLeaks so may years later.
However, if someone else leaked Moreno – then why? Just for the sake of leak without thinking about consequences for Assange? Or exactly to aggravate Moreno and give him a pretext? If latter, could it be not only IMF credit, but also a threat of more leaks? Like, “think twice, Moreno, if you protects our leakers who leak us, then we would use and protect your leakers who leak you” ?
Anyway, Wikipedia’s posting direct link to the leaked papers was a hostile action towards Moreno. In the situation where Assange was hanging on a thread for months – it was a daring act. What is maybe more interesting…
WikiLeaks: Since the publication of the INA Papers, Twitter has suspended both La Fuente’s Twitter account (@somos_lafuente; before it was suspended here) and the INA Papers account (@inapapers; before it was suspended here and here), possibly due to Twitter’s policy against posting hacked documents.
Wikileaks Twitter account was not suspended, despite giving link top the leak. Inapapers account was suspended, but it obviously kick-started the news-wave, posting not only the links, but the content of the leaks too (https://archive.is/5TKul has bank card slips photo, for example). But why was La Fuente suspended? https://archive.is/y72gR has a bunch of photos missed somehow, but those pictures that are not missed do not show leaked documents, nor any post had links to inapapers.org
Sadly i could not get those missed pictures from neither archive.org nor twitterarchive, maybe someone has full dump on La Fuente twitter feed of 20-22 February to check it.
But, either one of La Fuente twitter post contained a leaked photograph (?) or La Fuente got suspended for much less than WikiLeaks’ posting inapapers URL.
> I was following the Snowden saga from the very beginning and I remember no such thing. Care to give a link?
It was discussed when he just entered Russia, about his future plans, etc.
Back then i did not make bookmarks, it did not seem very interesting.
And today it is hard to find old texts like that.
> Firstly, Snowden is working at Yandex, which has a very pro-Western stance.
It is not a bit more surprising than the very fact that Netherlands (AFAIR, may be a bit wrong) company Yandex is working in Russia at all.
> Secondly, he openly decried Russian traffic collection system SORM
SORM afair predates the traffic collection, but maybe that colleciton is formally yet one more part of SORM, dunno.
But again, this is not of surprise. Critisizing Russia basing on public information is free.
Criticising government can not be compared to inapapers or wikileaks or Assange who publish non-public information. And Snowden did not leak any classified Russian information, did he?
Even if inapapers was not related to Wikileaks, they reported Moreno would use inapapers as a required pretext to oust Assange. IOW mere critising without leaks is punished neither in Ecuador nor in Russia.
> Yes, there are certain limits in Russia when it comes to free speech: you can’t promote ISIS and Nazi ideology
That is again, different topic. You here describe what of non-secret things you may or may not publish. Assange is accused, rightly ot wrongly, of leaks of private data.
Recently medical Emergence Service of Moscow made a huge f-up. They kept online application managing and archiving all emergency calls and dispatched vehicles on a server in Germany with no any authorization, any anonymous internet user could enter it and copy or even change any data. This, again, was not done in some provincial poor town but in the huge rich Moscow. So, while Snowden would not be permitted to work in FSB or SVR, but his skills alone probably would let him leak a lot of poorly secured information about less sensitive branches of Russian state machine, if he wanted. He does not.
To wrap it up.
1. Thanks for correcting me on WikiLeaks stance on Moreno leaks. I uncritically took the “obvious” black-n-white picture from MSM, which was unwise.
2. Snowden is explicitly out of leaks business w.r.t. Russia. His criticising Russia based on publically available data is not relevant to the leaks discussion. Nor Russia is something special here: Moreno also needed leak as pretext, not mere criticising.

Posted by: Arioch | Apr 13 2019 21:05 utc | 397

First, I am not coordinated with anybody, I have done my own research, starting since the strange, to my view, strong support by Assange for the Trump campaign and election. If he were a “journalist for the truth” as you asure, why he does not leak the tax record of Trump, for example? The more when Trump has revealed himself being a puppet of the neoliberal “deep state”…We need transparency from both sides….
Then there is all what is coming to the surface about the shenanigans to manipulate European politics in favor of US interests. Thus, it is not, “or you are with Assange, or you are with the Empire”, as you, in such Trumpist administration style declare, “james”, those simplistic ultimatums are more proper of Bolton, Pompeo, Abrams and The Donald.
Another point of attack which repeats itself anytime you are hitting the nail in the net is alluding at your “poor English” in an intent on disuade you of continue posting, why, out of shame?. This is already and old trick used against me so far, to no avail I must say, since the intensity of the attacks and ultimatums come to unveil crystal clear all of you understand me quite well, indeed, otherwise you would ignore my alleged “gibberish”. I take it as “ladran, luego cabalgamos”…
To reinforce my points, here come more information about obscure and supposedly “antisystem” organization DIEM25, where Julian Assange is a member along with his alleged “partner” Pamela Anderson. One would wonder what they paint in European politics an Australian guy who is an expert in cybersecurity and has clear links with “Five Eyes” intelligence services and an American actress mainly known by her “front line”. Well, may be the following announcement of a coming seminary would clarify:

Spanish activist Virgina López Calvo, also of the DIEM25 staff, is the campaign director of the feminist NGO wemove.eu, which receives its fees from the Open Society Foundations of Soros.

https://twitter.com/andrei_kononov/status/1117261826318917632

Autumn schools.”Cybersecurity strategies in the EU and technological sovereignty”.
A brief review of the EU’s cybersecurity strategy will be given, the first in 2013 and its evolution in 2017, linking it with the proposals that DIEM25 has made in its “Pillar of Technological Sovereignty”
Adriana Llongeras is an expert in cybersecurity. She has worked for the Council of the EU in cybersecurity policies and for NATO cyberdefense intelligence.

https://twitter.com/andrei_kononov/status/1117251281150779393
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4FGHGJXsAEWInw.jpg:large

Posted by: Sasha | Apr 14 2019 11:14 utc | 399