Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 11, 2019

Russian Internet Protests - These Crowd Estimates Are Propaganda

The Russian parliament is currently discussing a new law that will establish an autonomous internet in Russia. The network will no longer depend on servers and services hosted in other countries.

The U.S. dislikes that as shutting down Russia's internet by manipulating servers in the U.S. will no longer be an option. Spying on Russian internet traffic will also become more difficult.

The usual 'liberals' in Russia were told to raise some protest against the planned move. The BBC reports:

Thousands of people in Russia have protested against plans to introduce tighter restrictions on the internet.

A mass rally in Moscow and similar demonstrations in two other cities were called after parliament backed the controversial bill last month.

The government says the bill, which allows it to isolate Russia's internet service from the rest of the world, will improve cyber-security.

But campaigners say it is an attempt to increase censorship and stifle dissent.

Activists say more than 15,000 people gathered in Moscow on Sunday, which is double the estimate given by the police.

Reuters gives slightly different numbers:

The rally gathered around 15,300 people, according to White Counter, an NGO that counts participants at rallies. Moscow police put the numbers at 6,500.

Reports of crowd numbers are used for propaganda purposes and often false. On February 22 the British oligarch Richard Brenson organized a concert in Cucuta, Colombia. While "authorities" in Colombia claimed that there were "over 400,000 people in attendance", Vice News reported more than 300,000 and the Washington Post wrote that 200,000 were there. By using aerial pictures and scientific crowd density measurements we proved that less than 20,000 people attended the concert. Following that the Washington Post silently deleted its 200,000 claim.

The BBC provides two pictures with its piece.


bigger

bigger

Note that both are relatively tight front shots of the demonstration. It is impossible to check a crowd size from frontal pictures. Professor of Crowd Science at Manchester Metropolitan University G. Keith Still notes about density estimates that:

Density can appear higher with lower CCTV angles

That such frontal pictures are very misleading was demonstrated in 2015 when photos revealed how a small number of hypocrites abused a large memorial march they did not take part in for a photo-op.

Here now is an aerial picture of the "mass rally" in Moscow.


via Russian Perspective - bigger

That picture allows for a quite accurate crowd estimate. The width of an arterial road lane is 3.3 to 3.6 meters (11-12 feet). The street in the picture has ten lanes plus a medial strip of 1 meter. The total front of the demonstration is thus 37 meters. One can use the comparison to the lane width to measure the depth of the crowd. Detail picture analysis shows a medium dense crowd in the first 7 meters from the front with about 2.5 people per square meter and a light to medium density of 1.5 people per square meter for the next seven meter. The number of people beyond that are probably some 300 in total.

We can thus calculate:

37m * 7m * 2.5 ppl/m2 + 37m * 7m * 1.5 ppl/m2 + 300 ppl = 1.336 people

Even if we assume a high density of 3.5 ppl/m2 in the front zone, 2.5 ppl/m2 in the zone behind them, and 500 people mingling in the rear area the total is only 2,054 people. The city of Moscow has a population of 17 million with another three million in the suburbs around it. 2,000 protesters are 0.01% of its population. One would have to triple the density to even reach the police estimate of 6.500 participants or 0.0325% of the people living in Moscow.

Neither the police estimate nor the much higher estimate of the White Counter 'NGO' that Reuters quotes are consistent with the picture. According to a 2014 blog post at irevolutions.org "White Counter" was created in Russia:

in order to counter government figures on the number of protestors who join demonstrations. As is typical, the Kremlin will always downplay the numbers.

In this case the Kremlin seems to have tripled the attendance number. Is Putin somehow against the new law?

Posted by b on March 11, 2019 at 04:06 PM | Permalink

Comments

I wonder how much they were paid? Then was there pizza after;-)

Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 11, 2019 4:21:03 PM | 1

Besides lying about the numbers, how rich is it that the US corporate media has the fake-news audacity to hint darkly at Russian internet censorship even as this same media joins with Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. to ever more tightly censor the existing internet.

The US mainstream media are history's most vile propagandists, exactly at Julius Streicher's Nuremburg level of crime and deserving of exactly the same justice.

Posted by: Russ | Mar 11, 2019 4:21:48 PM | 2

Another example of how technology, most of it rolled out by the Deep State to extend control and destroy privacy, is quickly becoming an "own goal" for Big Brother. Just as the "manufacturing of consent" for coup and Random Guydo in Venezuela was quickly debunked, forcing a climb down from the government party line, just as we now have daily videos of police abuse from around the world, just as we now have instant internet archival retrieval of what politicians actually said and did, as opposed to the lies they run for office on, just as we were able to strongly implicate Mohammad Bone Sawman in the ordering of the torture-execution of Khashoggi, now we see transparency and accountability being forced on the controllers. Honesty and truth may yet win the day.

Posted by: JNDillard | Mar 11, 2019 4:33:45 PM | 3

The police estimate is most likely correct. In the second BBC picture, the crowd can be seen extending back a lot further than the aerial picture. Pictures taken at different times showing different crowd sizes.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 11, 2019 4:44:58 PM | 4

After witnessing the devastating effect of the Stuxnet virus in Iran (and possibly other malware used against Fukushima and Venezuela), in addition to the plethora of sanctions and covert ops perpetrated against Russia, they have every reason to secure and isolate their systems from potential attacks. Besides, presumably the incessant accusations by the West of "meddling" and interference by Russia will be quelled along with any aggressive actions by rogue actors in Russia, which could be used as pretext for retaliation. It's sad that such regulation is needed, but that's the price to be paid for protection from the villains of Western domination.

Posted by: norecovery | Mar 11, 2019 4:49:26 PM | 6

It's interesting how Vice News has managed to retain its "edgy" brand even as it time and again publishes misinformation always favouring the US/NATO position. The story linked here, on the Venezuelan "humanitarian" concert, is particularly bad as the reporter is on the ground and not just repeating wire service information. The journalist twice states that 300,000 people attended the concert, which, as a witness to the event itself, he should know is a wild overstatement. The journalist is lying, Vice published the lie, and this effort of "journalism" is in fact just sad propaganda. Vice was also publishing very poor quality stories from Nicaragua last spring. It's supposed to be the hip young person's guide to the world, but its actually part of the regime change network.

Posted by: jayc | Mar 11, 2019 4:51:05 PM | 7

As far as I know, the Russian government has no intention of cutting off Russia's Internet from the rest of the world.

On the contrary, it is making sure that if (when?) Washington cuts Russia off, it will be able to go on using its own internal Internet.

A wise precaution.

I wonder how long it will take Washington to understand that, every time it exploits foreigners' reliance on something controlled by Washington to harm them, those foreigners - and many others - will take steps to stop relying on Washington?

Eventually, the USA will be sitting alone at home - but at least it will have its ball with it.

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Mar 11, 2019 5:09:27 PM | 8

thanks b! further to desolation rows post in the last thread which was taken from ex-SA poster.. the video really is worth a watch for what it says about what is still going on today.. nothing has really changed.. propaganda and psyc-ops are the go to tool.. wash, rinse and repeat - 24/7.. it's a 24 minute video for anyone who missed seeing it.. it is from 1985 - british channel 4..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6uiK6F2zB4

Posted by: james | Mar 11, 2019 5:26:28 PM | 9

Isn't this just about getting a few DNS servers in-country within Russia?
Seems an awful lot of noise about not much?

Posted by: hosscara | Mar 11, 2019 5:27:20 PM | 10

It's not rocket science to estimate a crowd. Take a parade. Select a reference point best where the march takes a turn or is funneled by an obstruction. As people pass your point you break it up into sections you can measure by direct observation. You can count lots of say 50 or 20 or whatever. Then, the multiples of that. You then get a fair estimate.

With overhead shots the density of a crowd can be deceptive. Sometimes, people get packed tight, or they may not be so. I remember some of the famous shots of mass rallies in Washington with huge number estimates. But the overhead shots revelled that only some bits were tight packed while most of the rest had a low density. Not so many after all.

What we have here is Look At The Number of Lanes. Ten. And 10 feet wide. Tight for the first 25 feet, then thinned, then stragglers. Each person width 3 feet minimum. 30 across times 25 deep = 750 therabouts. Half that for the not-so-dense, throw in a hundred stragglers. 1200 present. Touch more for generosity.

So, lot more big lying going on I'd say.

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Mar 11, 2019 5:36:56 PM | 11

@2 Russ, Modern propaganda and mass media was invented in the US. The Nazis copied the Americans. Goebbels had everything Bernays every published in his library. "They were using my books as the basis for a destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me, but I knew any human activity can be used for social purposes or misused for antisocial ones." Edward Bernays from his 1965 autobiography

Posted by: goldhoarder | Mar 11, 2019 5:56:02 PM | 12

The bill that introduced the proposal to rout Russia-generated Internet traffic through Russia-based servers passed its first reading (out of three) in the Duma and has yet to be considered in the upper house of the Russian Federal Assembly. So there is still a possibility that the bill may be rejected in its original form and subjected to amendment in the Duma. Perhaps if the bill is amended, then it might provide for a back-up system that to some extent replicates the data on the system already in use but is immune to foreign manipulation and paralysing cyber-attacks intended to shut down utilities and services.

There is surely no harm also for the Ministry of Communications (or its relevant Russian equivalent) in establishing an agency that monitors Internet traffic and reports on incidents and patterns that suggest long-term and systematic foreign meddling with intent to damage Russian national security.

The Russian parliament must have studied the Chinese system (the so-called Great Firewall) of an autonomous Internet to have come up with its own proposal. That must be why the usual kreakly lapdogs have been alerted to complain against it.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 11, 2019 6:01:20 PM | 13

"Top Russian MP compares Trump to Hitler, warns of new war" Maybe some of those Atlanticists ought to go and argue with the General to try and convince him Trump's not Hitler. It would be comical as the Atlanticists would insist that Putin's Hitler, not Trump.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 11, 2019 6:05:06 PM | 14

karlof1@13 It's easy to understand why Trump just represents more US lies to the Russians, he was the de facto peace candidate in 2016 because he was talking about playing nice with Russia and North Korea while HRC was talking about nuclear first strike. But everything since his election is an all too familiar scenario to the Russians, as the article you linked states. I'm sure Europeans understand the danger much more than Americans do, sadly.

Posted by: mourning dove | Mar 11, 2019 6:42:01 PM | 15

The aerial overview does not carry any timestamp AFAIK: useless!

What is clear from the frontal picture is that there are way more people in the back which the aerial does not show. Hence it's unlikely that both pictures are addressing the same scene or time. Assuming they all are verified originals, which is never to be assumed.

If only claims would not need random, unvetted pictures to make some point or counter-point!

Posted by: John Dowser | Mar 11, 2019 6:48:54 PM | 16

Google put this in the Fact Check zone along with the usual BS
https://www.polygraph.info/a/is-russia-a-guarantor-of-stability-and-security-fact-check/29811254.html

"It is questionable that Russia’s recent initiatives outside of Europe have contributed to peace and stability. Russia’s involvement in the Syrian uprising on the side of the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria had the effect of prolonging the war and exacerbating that country’s refugee crisis."

I would say Russia helped put an end to the jihadi war waged against Syria otherwise it would still be going on until the entire country was a wasteland.

"In Libya, Russia has been backing Libyan National Congress leader General Khalifa Haftar, who is feuding with the Tripoli-based Government of National Accord."
At least they're doing something in Libya unlike the destruction wrought by the US, NATO, and the jihadi allies.

Polygraph is a VoA production. No surprises here. The Google push to make it a Fact Check source is also no surprise.

Posted by: Curtis | Mar 11, 2019 6:55:23 PM | 17

I don't see the banners and flags in the aerial view that are shown in the front view

Just sayin

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 11, 2019 7:38:48 PM | 18

This photo essay provides more accurate images of the crowds - ie not close cropped as in the BBC piece.

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/https/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4833042.html

The overhead shot is clearly taken early in the demonstration when crowds were building. The first picture in the essay shows two tall concave building fronts on the left. The overhead shows just one. It is difficult to guage distances from shots taken with zoom lenses but the peak crowd seems to extend to the start of the second concave building, which is out of shot on the left of the overhead image. I guess the police estimate is probably more realistic.

Posted by: Yonatan | Mar 11, 2019 7:45:34 PM | 19

“In this case the Kremlin seems to have tripled the attendance number. Is Putin somehow against the new law?”

If my Fake Wrestling theory is correct then yes, he would be opposed. The future New New World Order wil be one of Global Technocratic Control. The internet must be globally connected for global control. A nationally isolated internet can not be permitted. Firewalls like China has are fine because they can be removed or breached. Isolation is not permitted

Putin is simply a Russian Trump/Obama hybrid. Took over a devastated economy like Obama with a population who saw oligarchs as a problem, a problemTrump exploited by posing as anti-establishment and preaching MAGA. Putins populist nationalism and anti-oligarch stance led to his popularity, as well as the apartment bombings that were Putins 9/11 which he used to gain popular support much like Bush did 2 years later. However like Trump/Obama he pursued neoliberal economics and rewarded oligarchs after sacrificing a few of them to appease the people. His rose is beginning to fade thanks in part to the pension reforms. It remains as high as it is mainly because the economic woes are being blamed on the US and not Russias neoliberal policies.

Obviously Putin has done some good relative to the depths Yeltsins Russia had sunk. Lets not forget who put Putin in position to succeed Yeltsin (the US puppet himself) , or Putins mentors (Sobchak) role in drafting the neoliberal constitution which he has made no effort to revise substantially.

Posted by: Pft | Mar 11, 2019 7:56:19 PM | 20

I actually used to know the people from White Counter. Not only that, but I have personally participated in some of the countings in 2013–2015, so you can probably call me "a former member of White Counter". Although there was no actual membership, and it was not really an NGO — just a bunch of activists and volunteers.

I can personally vouch for the accuracy of those countings I have participated in. The way rallies work in Russia, the police sets up a row of booths where they check the participants for explosives and weapons before they let them in. Each White Counter volunteer would be given a counter — a small mechanical gadget with a button — and assigned a booth (sometimes two) to watch. Before a planned opposition rally, an organizer would call me and ask if I wanted to participate. Sometimes I said yes, sometimes I said no. It was a purely voluntary thing, absolutely no money involved whatsoever. No food or any other types of perks for the volunteers either. After the counting, we exchanged our figures and tallied them up. The only reward for participating in a counting would be knowing the total figure earlier than anybody else. I knew the countings were correct because I saw the other volunteers' figures when we compared our results and they matched mine (after correction for the fact that the booths in the center had more people coming through than the booths on the sides). The next day, the organizer of White Counter would publish the figures in his Facebook account. If I remember correctly, he was a math teacher in a specialized math school, or, perhaps, a teaching assistant at a math faculty.

Now, the interesting thing is that the Moscow police would also publish a figure after each rally, and it was always two times smaller. Almost exactly two times smaller, which is why we joked among ourselves that the government considered the opposition people "half-people". It also seemed like some sort of an indirect admission from the police that they knew the real figure, but were given orders to lie. In fact, during one of the countings, a senior police officer approached me and asked how many people I've counted so far. I gave him the figure for my booth, and later came up to him and informed him of the final figure for all booths. Lo and behold, the next day the police has published a figure that was twice as small. I think it was something like 48,000 for that particular rally, while the police published something like 25,000. So, again, I can personally vouch for the fact that in 2013–2015 the Moscow police has — on multiple occasions — deflated the number of participants by a factor of two.

The Russian opposition is not like the Venezuelan opposition. It's not as much about class. There are rich people and poor people, math professors and warehouse workers (to give just two examples of people I've personally met). Of course, people tend to get worse as you move closer to opposition leadership. Some of them hate the existing socio-politico-economical system so much, that they lose all sense of proportion and become insane neocon-ish Russophobes, like Kasparov. Some of them are former high-ranking bureaucrats who've fallen out of favor and hope to ride the wave of unrest to return to the cabinets of power, like Kasyanov and Ryzhkov. Some of them are narcissistic poseurs, like Yashin. Some of them are Russian Guaidós-in-waiting, like Navalny. But among the rank-and-file opposition activists, there are also many genuine, honest, decent people who, for some reason, have come to dislike or distrust the Russian government and then fallen into a trap of thinking that foreign governments must be better. I can't speak of the current state of the Russian opposition movement, as I have left it in 2015, but I hope you get my point: there are, or at least there used to be in 2011–2015, many decent people in that movement who are/were genuinely misled about many things, or simply deeply unhappy about Russia's problems (of which there are many). Not all these people are/were shills/sell-outs/traitors to their country.

Having said all that, I agree with b's crowd estimate for the presented photo. Thus, one of the following two statements must be true:

1) at some point after 2015, White Counter activists got corrupted and started publishing fake numbers;

2) the photo was taken before the crowd has fully assembled (kinda like the MSM news channels showed videos of crowds at Bernie's rallies hours before they actually started).

Regarding the law in question, I fully support it. As I've learned over the years, Putin doesn't do things because he has nothing better to do. If he's doing something, there must be a really good reason. It is likely that the U.S. has threatened to disconnect Russia from the financial payments systems and even from the internet (perhaps, during the notorious Kerry's visit to Moscow, when he was seen wielding a mysterious red suitcase). Which is why Russia's Central Bank has introduced its own interbank payment system, as well as Russia's own debit/credit card system called "Mir", and why the Russian government is now making sure that the Russian segment of the internet is capable of autonomous operation. It's really a set of technical measures, like ensuring there are reserve root DNS servers, ensuring Russian citizens' private data is stored in Russian data centers, ensuring the Russian government does not have critical dependencies on foreign web services/web apps, and so on. There's nothing "repressive" in these laws, really. The only well-known internet company that's currently blocked in Russia is LinkedIn, and that's because they have refused to store Russian citizens' data in Russia. There's no "Great Firewall of Russia" or anything like that. So it's not about the Russian government trying to isolate Russian internet, but rather about the U.S. threatening to isolate Russian internet and the Russian government acting prudently and preparing the country to withstand such an event.

Posted by: S | Mar 11, 2019 8:06:39 PM | 21

Still in France we had the same kind of picture with Mélenchon in 2013 : https://www.nouvelobs.com/photo/20131202.OBS7810/melenchon-sur-tf1-le-zoom-qui-fache.html

Posted by: Paul | Mar 11, 2019 8:07:53 PM | 22

[off topic link drop - deleted - b.]

Posted by: Anunnaki | Mar 11, 2019 8:37:10 PM | 23

[off topic link drop - deleted - b.]

Posted by: John Smith | Mar 11, 2019 9:24:04 PM | 24

[off topic link drop - deleted - b.]

Posted by: John Smith | Mar 11, 2019 9:24:59 PM | 25

@10, Certainly DNS - servers are part of it, but not all of it. The primary protocol we all use is PPP, which labels each packet with Senders IP, Recipients IP and timestamp. Other protocols are possible (PPPoE, PPPoA) and new ones can be invented (PPP-Rus ?). The protocols include what to do if 'rogue data packets' appear. On top of that layer sits the TCP/IP layer allowing TCP and UDP packets, and 5 other layers, offering encryption, starting/ending sessions, and loads more. Putin has announced the completion of new protocols for Government inter-communications. Floating around in the mass of data packets are packets that simply check out the routes are open and time them, enabling self-correcting routing tables. In WW3 this will be a very busy area.

Posted by: Palloy | Mar 11, 2019 9:53:10 PM | 26

@21 S

I guess it must have taken you at least an hour to write what you did, maybe an hour and a half. So, thank you very much for sharing that time out of your life with us. Fascinating stories wrapped in your Russian experience.

I also agree about this move by Russia. It's only DNS servers for goodness sake. These are the servers that connect URL links, and allow people to go to websites all over the world, in moments, at a click.

The websites stay in place and are nothing to do with this. It's only about preserving access. This means that if the US flips the kill-switch, Russia stays connected to the global web. It's the opposite of censorship.

~~

It would be like hacking the main hydro-electric dam in Venezuela, and discovering that each village and city had its own fully sufficient generation system, thank you very much :P

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 11, 2019 9:57:59 PM | 27

Interesting timing.
In 2009 the rotor of a generator in Russia's Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power plant, Russia's largest at that time, jumped out of its housing and bounced around the plant causing a huge amount of damage to the plant.
One wonders if Venezuela's recent experience with US infrastructure meddling prompted Russia to treat this legislation with more urgency than was originally intended?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 11, 2019 10:01:47 PM | 28

A bifurcated internet is in our future.

Unless the West collapses then separating West from East will become part of the tactics of war. It will then be interesting to see if there is a connection between the independent internet backbones and how it is managed.....allow email but not web?

Business may drive interconnectivity over political concerns. Globalization will not go back into the bottle just because some politician says it should.

And yes, Russia is being very prudent to take these measures and others we are not reading about I suspect.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 11, 2019 10:13:57 PM | 29

It's a pity that Putin isn't a Dictator. If he was he could shut down AmeriKKKa's access to Russia's internet overnight.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 11, 2019 10:16:52 PM | 30

Hoarsewhisperer @30

Wish Putin could just shut down AmeriKKKa period.

Posted by: lgfocus | Mar 11, 2019 10:23:06 PM | 31

S 21

With the information that is available now, as in people noting the emperor is naked, US now blatantly threatening all and sundry... "1) at some point after 2015, White Counter activists got corrupted and started publishing fake numbers;" is likely to be correct.
US deep state have penetrated and corrupted all major NGO's.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 11, 2019 10:36:00 PM | 32

It's probably worth contemplating the likelihood that The Swamp (the permanent US bureaucracy - including but not limited to the CIA) has far greater dictatorial powers than either Putin or POTUS.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 11, 2019 10:48:01 PM | 33

s21.. thanks for your post here today.. interesting and informative..

Posted by: james | Mar 11, 2019 10:58:50 PM | 34

@ S #21 with the report from Russia....thanks.
I purchased and am trying to learn how to play 3 RAV Vast drums from Russia that are beautiful instruments. I am glad I have them before trade is limited between our countries

@ Peter AU1 #32 who wrote
"
US deep state have penetrated and corrupted all major NGO's.
"
Yes, it is a cancer I have watched spreading for 50 years. The example I give from back then is an organization called Consumer Reports. In 1972 they published a report titled Licit & Illicit Drugs which advocated the legalization of drugs. Within 10 years they were nothing like the original organization and even today they do not go off the reservation of acceptable feedback to society.....worthless unless you are a heavy consumer and then what money their data represents in consumer products.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 11, 2019 11:07:06 PM | 35

Folks its not America you are talking about, maybe its the USA, but I think runs deeper into a cabal of sorts? America consist of 340,000,000 Americans who, at one time, had access to more genetically unmolested food than they needed, to domestic energy-a-plenty at cost plus pennies because of competition between small producers and retailers, and who proudly echoed that the concerns of all Americans were integral parts of the consideration that culminated in the decisions the elected made. Moreover, opportunity after opportunity existed, good colleges were cheap, jobs were everywhere, in just about any industry and .... Some how all of that has been ended? ..

Now governed Americans need to buy a license to piss, to turn left, to turn right, to breath, to build one's own house and they must buy insurance from a private insurer just to drive a car , obtain a mortgage, or get health care. Many Americans no longer pay their local governments for water, sewer, electricity and gas, instead they pay private enterprise..or quasi public private governmental schemes that slide the non profit "profits" into private hands; every event of entertainment is accompanied by more junk or fake propaganda then event related content, and those with the power to operate the government do so behind closed doors. Government funded private contractors spy on the governed, the judiciary conducts secret courts and banking, military supply and manufacturing conduct their business offshore. How did this come about?

Posted by: snake | Mar 11, 2019 11:14:00 PM | 36

As we see the former linkages to websites disappearing - as the banhammer comes down from facebook, youtube, rss feeds, search engines, etc - we also see commentary in sites such as these re-linking to these sites through other channels.

Channels go down, channels arise - the Internet routes around blockages.

Don't tell the corporations, but the Internet is still working, people :)

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 11, 2019 11:49:41 PM | 37

I am in currently in China for the first time, and am seeing their Internet censorship firsthand. While I am under no illusions about the ultimate limits the government here places on what the people here can do, what I see from my POV is mainly banning the major US propaganda outlets (WaPoo, NY Times, WSJ, etc) and US social media (mainly in favor of Chinese alternatives). The MSM narrative in the US about this is mainly self serving and designed to manufacture negative views towards China andp prop up the false narrative that the US is miraculously free and unpropagandized.

Posted by: Roy G | Mar 12, 2019 12:35:07 AM | 38

Roy G 38

Similar as what I found a few years ago. At that time I could access most MSM, but anything google was out. Google blogs, google browser, google search ect. Yandex worked fine.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2019 12:45:11 AM | 39

@ peter.. i think that is because google is the backdoor of nsa-cia.. ordinary folks aren't supposed to know this, but the chinese gov't does..

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2019 12:47:24 AM | 40

S #21
Thank you for that intimate insight. That is the stuff that makes magic here for us all to share.
Anunnaki #23
Maybe the hammer dropped on zerohedge head and knocked some sense into it. I don't support farcebook at all but ZH, now that's a laugh.

There is an urgent need for multichannel www and it is so good to see its emergence. The single channel evil empire will be shitting its pants trying to work out ways of obstructing westies from using easties. Good luck on that!

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12, 2019 3:53:39 AM | 41

@james no. 9

that’s not a channel 4 tv show from 1985. it’s a 2017 documentary about the beatles. i’m guessing you posted the wrong link?

Posted by: Yarkob | Mar 12, 2019 4:27:56 AM | 42

james 40
That was my thought also.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2019 5:36:33 AM | 43

Facebook banned the Zero Hedge. RT will be the next, Moon of Alabama also.

Posted by: Nick | Mar 12, 2019 6:40:53 AM | 44

The funny thing is that by organizing a rally for the freedom of the Internet and the unacceptability of censorship, these morons forbade(!) some media to cover the event.
No joke.

Representatives of the so-called 'Libertarian Party' made “black lists” of who should be allowed to the event, and who should not.
Once again - it was a rally for Internet freedom and unacceptability of censorship.

Morons.

Posted by: alaff | Mar 12, 2019 6:54:40 AM | 45

What really matters is, will the internet users in Russia be able to access other parts of the web or will they just get a Russian version of everything?

Posted by: john wilson | Mar 12, 2019 6:58:41 AM | 46

@ JNDillard | Mar 11, 2019 4:33:45 PM | 3

Honesty and truth may yet win the day.

That's the optimistic view, but considering that item 11 on the agenda of last year's Bilderberg Conference is "The post-truth world" I wouldn't bet on it.

Posted by: Ross | Mar 12, 2019 7:07:09 AM | 47

Probably noted already but that picture was taken very early on. The propaganda is strong on this one.

Here's some other pictures showing the crows is FAR FAR FAR deeper than the picture above:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1S1FDQWoAAB9XX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1S72nOWsAAjuRM.jpg <--- SHOWS WAY WAY MORE PEOPLE

Note these were all linked from Colonel Cassad's blog (https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4833042.html), but for some reason didn't show up properly on the blog itself (had to "View Image"), perhaps due to some Twitter anti-hot-linking.

Posted by: CalDre | Mar 12, 2019 7:19:43 AM | 48

@44 luckily MoA is not present on FB

Posted by: Vato | Mar 12, 2019 7:33:33 AM | 49

@27

It's the opposite of censorship.

There is of course internet censorship in Russia as well. The only difference to the West is that it's done in the open and by the government directly

Posted by: mh505 | Mar 12, 2019 8:42:55 AM | 50

And no doubt a certain V. Nuland handing out cookies beind the barricades.

Posted by: pasha | Mar 12, 2019 9:44:34 AM | 51

Clearly fakes news! Everybody knows by now that protests are forbidden in authoritarian Russia!

Posted by: Brian | Mar 12, 2019 11:55:33 AM | 52

@42 yarkob.. the link i gave @9 was indeed the wrong one!! thanks for taking a look.. here is the correct link..

https://swprs.org/video-the-cia-and-the-media/

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2019 12:24:06 PM | 53

@36 see http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51256.htm

someone else thinks an attempt to create an international dictatorship is in the making

Posted by: snake | Mar 12, 2019 12:50:34 PM | 54

Final countdown: US diplomats given 72 hours to pull out of Venezuela

https://www.rt.com/news/453626-us-embassy-caracas-deadline/

It looks like the diplomats leaving is Venezuela's idea and not the US's.

Posted by: arby | Mar 12, 2019 1:23:29 PM | 55

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2019 12:24:06 PM | 53 (and also 6)

Thanks for bringing it forward!

Posted by: snake | Mar 12, 2019 12:50:34 PM | 54

Kinda OT, but maybe not – sorta ties in with your link to Ahmadinejad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1uz8DV561A
Col. Lawrence Wilkerson speaking @ UNC on 21 February, published 04 March.
I’ve not seen the Col. be this forthright in the past, he seems to be quite worried by the currently
situation. Lots of “inside Baseball” so to speak.
I recommend quiting @ +/- 39:00 when Wilkerson finishes, the rest is quite painful for a variety of reasons.

Posted by: Desolation Row | Mar 12, 2019 1:42:35 PM | 56

If the first picture was a protest in Moscow then why was the biggest sign in English?

Posted by: Tobi | Mar 12, 2019 1:46:02 PM | 57

Russia protests. Other considerations.

Consequent demos take place with regularity in Moscow (and elsewhere in Russia) Against! the Gvmt. (Putin as boss..) decrees, measures, actions, etc.

The most recent were against the revision of Pensions. (Surely many here know about that.) The communists lead the charge, say. Putin’s approval ratings sank as never before and may not recover soon.

I recall massive protests previous about reforming the ‘health’ hospital system, i.e. closing down many regional hospitals, maternity wards, local doc. state run - pratices, and the like, to concentrate services and ‘stream-line’ etc., as well as introducing some co-pays and creeping look-in(s) for private / non gov. insurance. (This is a story that merits 7 pages.. large nos. of health care workers were fired.. ‘private’ insurance coming up…)

Other demos in Moscow contested demolishing existing ‘ppl’ housing (from USSR times) to make way for .. I don’t recall, maybe shopping malls and luxury flats.

The W-MSM never reports on these protests, because they are identical to protests in the W - in CH for ex, on ALL these topics there have been huge protests / movements / referenda, some or them marginally - or better - effective.

to see pix + articles, type:

russia protest health care - russia protest pensions - russia protest moscow housing

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 12, 2019 1:48:16 PM | 58

>>What really matters is, will the internet users in Russia be able to access other parts of the web or will they just get a Russian version of everything?

Posted by: john wilson | Mar 12, 2019 6:58:41 AM | 46<<

They will be able to access internet as before, any site anywhere in the world.

Posted by: Snorko | Mar 12, 2019 2:07:59 PM | 59

From a site another poster put up--
Where our news comes from.
Long but you get the idea after a few paragraphs--

https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/

Posted by: arby | Mar 12, 2019 2:16:14 PM | 60

Russia's defending itself:

"Our capitalist overlords at Facebook even censored ads from a 'presidential candidate', Elizabeth Warren, explaining why we should break up tech giants!

"It is not foreign countries but rather US corporations that threaten the little democracy we have left."

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12, 2019 2:45:29 PM | 61

@57. Why signs in English? Good question. We see this in lots of demonstrations.

I assume the idea is to reach an international audience and somehow spread the meme. It may have the reverse affect on less well connected local nationalists.

Posted by: dh | Mar 12, 2019 4:11:45 PM | 62

@60 arby.. thanks.. that is also quite good..

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2019 4:12:04 PM | 63

In other news ...

I was reading MoA via internet in a USA hospital. I clicked on a link and got this message (including the bolding):

We found a security threat.

Access to this page is restriced per Information Security Policy 02-03, "Internet Acceptable Use Policy" and the attempted access has been logged.

Country block outbound request: not allowed to access sites in this country: Russian Federation.

You tried to visit: http://sputniknews.com/

If you believe that this site provides a valid or reasonable business purpose, or is categorized inappropriately please click here to request a review of this site.


I wonder how many other Western companies/institutions follow the same policy? Is this a security policy organized by Homeland Security or NATO?

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Good thing bad guys have never thought of setting up websites in places other than the Russian Federation. Then we might really be in trouble.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 12, 2019 4:32:32 PM | 64

@ 64 jr... good last line! i found out about my own website, if i don't have a wikipedia page, then my website is not trusted! obviously a valid website must have some connection to the propaganda site wikipedia, or it won't be considered a '''''trusted''''' site... no doubt the nsa are coming up with all sorts of brilliant ideas on how to protect the sheeple..

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2019 4:56:11 PM | 65

James,,
Did a small search on where Reuters and AP get their funding. So far couldn't come up with much.

Posted by: arby | Mar 12, 2019 6:28:38 PM | 66

These days you can get cheap Chinese photography drones for under US $50. Why is it that 100% of the posts trying to argue for a large turnout at these protests insist upon only showing low angle pics?

Well, the answer to that is obvious.

Important point: Has anyone here ever personally organized a protest? If so, was a stage the first thing you thought about procuring for that protest? A stage with lights and a PA system? I've organized a few protests in my day and I could never afford those things. See the yellow stripes heading across the road to the stage in the top-down view that b posted above? Those are power cables that are covered up with shielding to protect them from being stepped on and driven over. The power cables imply something using electricity... lights and a public address system. Real grassroots protests NEVER have these things.

This is clearly a professionally organized EVENT put together by event planners for a fee. This is absolutely not a real protest and instead is an event that featured some extras to attract a crowd, like some musicians, free food and drink, and maybe a notable local comedian or two.

The giveaway, of course, is the stage. Whenever you see one of those at a "protest" you know it is a manufactured event and definitely not a grassroots happening.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 12, 2019 8:13:05 PM | 67

Pft #20

"..appartment bombings that were Putins 9/11.."
CNN Moscow quoted an expert about the Volgodonsk appartment bombing

"..Traces of explosives were found in the wreckage, the Federal Security Service (FSB) said. The force of
the blast was equivalent to about 100-300 tons of TNT, it said..."

The article was soon cleansed from all internet archives.
The text is quoted in Dmitri Khalezov's book the third truth on page 736.
Nonnuclear explosives of that magnitude cannot be hidden in a truck. It was a mininuke and in all likelihood carried out by the west. What the FSB was 'caught with' or the drill they ran, is inessential and even constitutes additional evidence about that finding being used by foreign operators with inside info about it, as misdirection and scapegoating.
Benjamin Netanyahu said before 9/11 (I think in 1996) that 'the next time' the terrorists might use mininukes.
The Cia and Mossad are among the most likely suspects for that kind of operations so Netanyahu would be familiar with the subject matter he was talking about. According to Khalezov such mininukes are often set off in a sewer below ground.
The west had motives: to quench Russias potential wish to expose the coming 9/11 and for Russia to join the Us rethoric about the war on terror.
The western propaganda tried to turn things upside down, claiming a russian false flag was used as an excuse to fight in Chechnya.
Since the Us was behind that war like they are behind all terrorism, it provoked the whole scenario. It therefore made sense to 'bring russia into the fold' at that time.

Posted by: Peter Grafström | Mar 13, 2019 9:44:15 AM | 68

Well, i don't think it is possible to pull out from world wide web at any way.

Posted by: impactresearch | Mar 21, 2019 6:12:16 AM | 69

This kind of protest may create some bad effect on telecommunication field.People understand this propaganda and come to the protest against on it.

Thanks.
https://ftasatupdate.blogspot.com/2018/07/jio-fiber-registration-jio-giga-tv.html

Posted by: Tony Thomas | Mar 30, 2019 4:25:24 AM | 70

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