U.S. Efforts To Block Huawei Gives China An Advantage

February 21, 2019

For several centuries China had a monopoly on silk. It was exported along the silk road to Persia and from there to Europe. Silk production was highly profitable. The export of silkworms and their production method was prohibited. in the mid 6-th century two monks made their way from Europe to China and found out how silk was produced. They reported back to the Byzantine emperor Justitian I who induced them to secretly acquire silkworms and to smuggle them back home. The monks managed to do that and soon thereafter the Chinese silk monopoly, and Persia's monopoly of silk trade with Europe, were no more.

The U.S. fears that China will soon be able to compete with it in computer chip design and fabrication. It is trying to block China from building its own chip factories and Congress even wants to block chip exports to specific Chinese companies. It is race that the U.S. will lose. Technology and the means of producing it inevitably proliferate.

The 5G mobile data networks will use new frequencies and algorithms to deliver gigabit data streams from, to and between mobile devices. This will allow for completely new applications like direct communication between (semi-)autonomous cars at any road crossing. Worldwide a number of companies are working to provide 5G technology. That involves antennas, base stations, new hard- and software in the periphery and in the core telecommunication systems. Main providers of such systems are U.S. companies like Motorola, Qualcomm and Cisco. Others are Ericsson and Samsung. One of the largest one is the Chinese company Huawei.

Currently Huawei is the most advanced company in the 5G field. It started early and invested huge sums into research and development for 5G technology. It owns some 15% of all relevant patents. It is currently the only provider that can deliver an end-to-end solution for 5G networks. As it serves the huge market of China it can produce on a large scale and sell its equipment for less than other companies do. The other dominant telecommunication equipment provider, including those in the United States, are lagging in 5G technology. They did not invest early enough and are now late to deliver.

Instead of investing in faster development and better technology the U.S. is trying to block Huawei from selling its goods. This hurts the development of other countries that want to provide 5G networks to their people.

The U.S. has long pressed its allies not to use Chinese equipment in their phone networks. It falsely claims that Huawei equipment is a security threat.

Australia and New Zealand followed the U.S. order and prohibited the use of Huawei equipment in their 5G networks. The U.S. also tried to press the big European countries to shun Huawei. So far it failed. Germany resisted U.S. pressure to not use Huawei stuff. It fears delays in 5G deployment should it ban Huawei. Yesterday Britain also pushed back:

Britain is able to manage the security risks of using Huawei telecoms equipment and has not seen any evidence of malicious activity by the company, a senior official said on Wednesday, pushing back against U.S. allegations of Chinese state spying.
…
“Our regime is arguably the toughest and most rigorous oversight regime in the world for Huawei,” [Chiaran Martin head of Britain’s National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which] is part of Britain’s GCHQ intelligence agency, said at a cybersecurity conference in Brussels.

Asked later whether Washington had presented Britain with any evidence to support its allegations, he told reporters: “I would be obliged to report if there was evidence of malevolence … by Huawei. And we’re yet to have to do that. So I hope that covers it.”

If Britain, a member of the Five Eyes intelligence sharing group, sees no danger in using Huawei then the U.S. has lost the case.

It is likely that Britain's announcement yesterday prompted this double-pronged U.S. reaction today:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump – 13:55 utc – 21 Feb 2019
I want 5G, and even 6G, technology in the United States as soon as possible. It is far more powerful, faster, and smarter than the current standard. American companies must step up their efforts, or get left behind. There is no reason that we should be lagging behind on………

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump – 13:59 utc – 21 Feb 2019
….something that is so obviously the future. I want the United States to win through competition, not by blocking out currently more advanced technologies. We must always be the leader in everything we do, especially when it comes to the very exciting world of technology!

Within the same hour that Donald Trump claimed he wants "fair competition" over new mobile technology, his Secretary of State Mike Pompeo attempted to blackmail U.S. allies into not using Huawei systems:

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday warned that the United States would not be able to partner with or share information with countries that adopt Huawei Technologies Co Ltd systems, citing security concerns.

In an interview on Fox Business Network, Pompeo said nations in Europe and elsewhere need to understand the risks of implementing Huawei’s telecommunications equipment and that when they did, they would ultimately not use the company’s systems.

“If a country adopts this and puts it in some of their critical information systems, we won’t be able to share information with them, we won’t be able to work alongside them,” Pompeo said.

Pompeo's thread sounds harsh. It is certainly not in the spirit of "winning through competition" that his boss promotes. It is also useless.

U.S. secret services exchange information with many other countries. The Five Eyes cooperation with Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand involves a gigantic world wide data acquisition effort known to "collect it all". The results are shared within the group. U.S. services also exchange data with many other spy services on a more limited base. This includes exchanges even with 'enemy states' like Russia or Syria. But these are all two or more sided deals. They are based on give and take. If the U.S. stops providing, for example, information about Islamic State terrorists, others will stop to provide similar information to the United States.

Exchange of intelligence is always done to the advantage of both sides. If the U.S. would stop to provide what it does it would also lose access to the information the counterparts provide. Besides that the use of this or that mobile phone system or technology is irrelevant for exchanging data about security threads. Pompeo's threat is meaningless and will be rejected.

Huwaei is no more a security threat than any other telecommunication equipment provider. The greatest danger from all of them are quality issues with their code that allows various secret services and other criminals to hack into such equipment. The Snowden files provided that the U.S. regularly hacks into and bugs U.S. provided communication equipment. In 2012 the NSA tried to install an exploit on the Cisco routers that run the central Internet node of Syria. It made an error that 'bricked' the routers and cut Syria off the Internet.

Unlike many U.S. companies Huawei gives foreign governments access to the source code for its equipment. It supports special laboratories in Germany, Britain, Singapore and elsewhere, that can inspect and test the code and equipment before its use. It recently announced that it would also open its central 5G development process in China to foreign government inspection.

The only issue that these labs have found so far is that the Chinese programmers at Huawei are as sloppy and error prone as programmers elsewhere are. Their coding is neither more elegant nor of higher quality. The NSA will have little problems hacking into it.

The U.S. attempt to block the deployment of Huawei equipment is obviously made for economic reason. The building of the Internet provided a huge boom to the U.S. telecommunications industry. A move into the 5G markets is supposed to prolong that. Unfortunately U.S. companies dropped the ball. Their leadership wanted to show short term profits and wasted it on share buy backs. The companies invested too little in research and development. Huawei beat them fair and square by being the first to offer the full line of the next generation products.

With hindering Huawei the Trump administration is playing for time so that U.S. companies can catch up. But that is again stupid short term thinking. The real profits in 5G networks will not be made with communication equipment but with the products enabled by it. The U.S. developed the Internet and sold it to the world. Cisco and other hardware manufacturers got rich. But there are also Google and Amazon which became even richer by providing the applications that run on top of the net.

If "the west" delays 5G deployment while China implements it, Chinese companies will have the time advantage to create the products which will run on top of the new global communication layer. It would allow China to incubate the next Google and Amazon like giants before other countries can even test the basic technology. That is the very reason why European countries do not follow the U.S. lead.

It was short term thinking that let the U.S. drop the ball on next generation telecommunications. If it wants to regain the lead it will have to change that attitude.

Posted by b on February 21, 2019 at 20:03 UTC | Permalink

Comments

Oh dear, the British decision puts Australia and New Zealand into a bind. Neither will know which nation, the United States or the United Kingdom, they should grovel to now.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 21 2019 20:15 utc | 1

Jen @1
Has Canada already joined the US or are they also now not sure who to grovel to?

Posted by: arby | Feb 21 2019 20:20 utc | 2

‘Five-Eyes’= Cyclops + 4 vassals

Posted by: Chet380 | Feb 21 2019 20:25 utc | 3

Here is an interesting video showing how China is preparing its population for war:
https://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2018/11/peace-behind-me-war-in-front-of-me.html
The Chinese government already has a sense that outright war with the United States is inevitable.

Posted by: Sally Snyder | Feb 21 2019 20:37 utc | 4

The main UK comms backbone has been supplied since the mid 80s by Huawei with code monitoring by GCHQ. This is the main reason the UK has cleared it, 30 years of successful partnership. Whether GCHQ has been able to embed its own ‘backdoors’ in the authorised code is a secret well above my pay grade.
The big issue with the US is that for the first time they will not be able to monitor the core network and that must be a big worry.
My problem with 5G is that the huge increase in number of towers and the signal strength needed is going to be a lot more hazardous to our brains and others than anything that has come before it. Just glad I’m over 70 and am unlikely to see that damage.

Posted by: JohninMK | Feb 21 2019 20:52 utc | 5

B. writes: “The other dominant telecommunication equipment providers, including those in the United States, are lagging in 5G technology. They did not invest early enough and are now late to deliver.”
As for the U.S. companies, it’s not for the lack of investment funds, since the Fed has been showering free money on them.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Feb 21 2019 21:02 utc | 6

Clear reasoning Bernhard, about the drawbacks to not implementing 5G asap.
Here in Canada we pride ourselves on being global leaders in in-country communications, driven by the small population and large area of the country. As an example, years ago cable TV was available to almost all areas well before the US had done so. Before that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s radio station could be heard country-wide as well.
As for telecommunications, the three largest providers have differing 5G strategies. Telus, the biggest provider, has been working solely with Huawei for some 5 years and is getting ready to roll out. The others have hedged their bets with Nokia as partners, and the federal government has also set aside some $2 million for Nokia’s 5G.
Telus has made a huge bet on Huawei and stands to gain advantage, or lose a great deal if the Canadian government bans the Chinese technology as they would lose their prior investment dollars and have to start designing their 5G network once again from scratch.
According to a market analyst I read that Telus may lose in either case since public opinion can be swayed by the talk of Huawei’s potential dangers, and customers might go to other more trusted cellullar providers.
In a recent CBC quote Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said words to the effect that the Canadian security establishment was studying the situation and that the gov’t would follow their advice. In other words, do what they were told by the established bureaucracy.
So here in the Great White North there is definitely an interesting battle going on behind the scenes, between divergent corporate interests and the needs of the country’s basic communications infrastructure, versus the always-present pressure from the US government as well as US corporations themselves.

Posted by: jonku | Feb 21 2019 21:02 utc | 7

The U.S. attempt to block the deployment of Huawei equipment is obviously made for economic reason. The building of the Internet provided a huge boom to the U.S. telecommunications industry. A move into the 5G markets is supposed to prolong that. Unfortunately U.S. companies dropped the ball. Their leadership wanted to show short term profits and wasted it on share buy backs. The companies invested too little in research and development. Huawei beat them fair and square by being the first to offer the full line of the next generation products.

It’s not that the American companies “dropped the ball”. Marx had already noted that capitalism operated in cycles (he didn’t know why, and died without knowing).
Nowadays, we have already discovered many of them: inventory cyle, business cycle, Kitchin cycle (the cycle Marx hypothetised and tried to demonstrate in Book II of Capital), etc. The only cycle that is polemic is the Kondratiev Cycle — the cycle of innovation or the industrial revolution cycle. When all the cycles combine downwards, we have a depression (which we’ve seen in 1929 and 2008). Mainstream Economics treat capitalism as an equilibrium system, thus they do not recognize crises as endemic to the system.
But Marx had also noted capitalism is not only cyclic: it was an ever expanding cycle, an outwards spiral. So, in addition to crises, we have cyclic and structural crises.
Cyclic crises are normal crises: they happen strictly because capitalism operates in cycles (or waves, if you prefer the synoidal image): the “wave”, goes down, business go down. These crises are very healthy to capitalism, since it allows unproductive wealth to be destroyed in favor of productive wealth — what Shumpeter would later call “creative destruction”.
But there are the structural crises, crises that are fruit of the secular decay of capitalism and from which it never arises from the same way. In 2008, we had such crisis — the first since 1929. After 2008, the capitalist world was plunged into a depression (a “new normal”, at a lower level than before), the social profit rate declining secularly. As a result of permanent depressed profit rates, American (and other First World) capital isn’t investing, since the prospect of profit is the only factor that induces capital(ism) to invest. So, in order to maintain profitability, American capital doubled down on the financial sector (buybacks being the main instrument). Rise of financial capital is a sign of despair of capital, a symptom of falling rates of profit.
China, however, is not a capitalist country, so, while the world was diving into chaos, it still had the means to continue with investment. Yes, it felt the 2008 crisis — inevitable, since it is connected to the rest of the world — but it was far from being entrapped into stagnation/recession mode.
The USSR was growing 15% per year during the 50s and the first half of the 60s. But that happened in a moment of History the when the capitalist world was also growing 10-12%. GDP growth is only important as long as 1) it is positive in real terms (obvious), but, more importantly for the argument here, 2) your country is growing much faster than the neighbor. China is not the shadow the USSR once was — but it exists in a much more favorable historical context, where it is growing with dignity while the rest is either in stagnation or recession.

Posted by: vk | Feb 21 2019 21:08 utc | 8

Looks like the Chinese are hitting back hard, Ausralian Diplomats don’t know what to do, serves them right the grovelling vasalls
China bans Australian coal imports as diplomatic tensions over Huawei intensify
Last month, Australia barred Chinese telecoms giants Huawei Technologies from providing 5G technology for their networks, citing national security concerns.
Australia is the world’s number one exporter of coal, while China remains its biggest trade partner, accounting for nearly 30 percent of Australian sales abroad. Apart from coal, main exports to China include iron ore and gold. rt.com/business

Posted by: Harry Law | Feb 21 2019 21:08 utc | 9

Add to the short sightedness of US corporations using monies to buyback stock shares, the whole predatory lending and sky rocketed costs of college in the US has created a penury of techy brains in the necessary fields. Only 1 out of 4 grad students in Tech is a US youngster. The rest are foreigners. US kids are so worried about Student loan debt that they forgo grad school.
Just one more short sighted, predatory element of US culture.

Posted by: Linda Amick | Feb 21 2019 21:11 utc | 10

5G offers a smaller prison cell so Uncle can watch while being slowly cooked to death so lemmings can send their kitty pics faster and watch the temperature of their refrigerator. Already insects and birds are slowly disappearing. Too bad the smaller usually creatures go first. Any studies that do indicate problems are considered conspiracy theory. I do not consider myself a ‘tree hugger’ but I do know my life is dependent on other creatures in the overall biosphere.
As for the technology,,, I’m not sure the US and/or the West in general has the wherewithal and skilled people necessary. After all the US cannot even put men into space any longer. Might be wise to use those that have the intelligence and skills necessary and didn’t waste their money and time on needless wars. IMHO….

Posted by: ken | Feb 21 2019 21:16 utc | 11

Let China be the experimental lab rats for Huaweis 5G if they want. The safety concerns of 5G are legitimate and nobody is testing this technology.
https://www.technocracy.news/5g-is-a-wrong-way-driver-on-the-highway-of-scientific-inquiry/
Also, besides the health effects when fully rolled out, tens of thousands of satellites will have been launched introducing much carbon black to the stratosphere not to mention the natural resources consumed to make and install tens of millions of street level antennas which will microwave every square inch of the planets surface 24/7 with unkown consequences to man, animals , insects , plants and birds
People really need to step back and make these guys invest in studying the consequences of this technology. As it is we are not sure of the long term consequences of 4G.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 21 2019 21:33 utc | 12

“The real profits in 5G networks will not be made with communication equipment but with the products enabled by it.”
That observation reminds me of the Microsoft-IBM alliance.
Gates & Allen thought software was the essence of computing.
IBM thought hardware was the essence of computing.
They did a Deal Of The Century which both parties thought they’d won.
then
Microsoft expanded and IBM shrank.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 21 2019 21:37 utc | 13

before u get too excited about 5G :t has health implications
‘Millimeter waves (MMWs) do not travel well through buildings and they tend to be absorbed by rain and plants. This interferes with the signal. Added to this, high frequency waves like MMWs also have much shorter wavelengths that can’t travel far.
To counter this problem 5G will utilize smaller cell stations (and the technology of beamforming) that’ll scramble/unscramble and redirect packets of data on a no-interference path back to us. This could mean wireless antennas on every lamp post, utility pole, home and business throughout entire neighborhoods, towns and cities.
This short video gives a succinct explanation of what you can expect:’
etc
https://www.electricsense.com/12399/5g-radiation-dangers/

Posted by: brian | Feb 21 2019 21:42 utc | 14

vk 9
Marx was not so interested in ‘cycles’ – he saw mass society and technology as creating new classes from the struggles of and for ‘production . New classes are continually created ( or not as the case may be)
I t is an ongoing process and for Marx and Marxists the point is to find the REVOLUTIONARY qualitative take off – moving beyond repetitive Capital formations into a socialist world of equality in economic and cultural outcomes !

Posted by: ashley albanese | Feb 21 2019 21:45 utc | 15

Arby @ 2:
You’d have to ask Justin Bieber Turdeau to speak to his boss Chrystia Freeland about which path Canadians will follow.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 21 2019 21:47 utc | 16

Posted by: Harry Law | Feb 21, 2019 4:08:30 PM | 10
(China hitting back hard)
Pathetic, ain’t it?
If you weren’t terminally corrupt and prepared to Heil “Israel” then you didn’t have a snowflake’s chance in Hell of getting into Oz politics.
With a bit of luck the winds of change are going to flush away some utterly hopeless scum in May…

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 21 2019 22:00 utc | 17

Since the experts seem to be chiming in today…
What’s 5G going to do that 4G can’t do?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 21 2019 22:16 utc | 18

Arby@2 and Jen@1
Former Prime Minister Steven harper entered the fray early with his condemnation of Huawei.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4740979/stephen-harper-canada-ban-huawei-5g/
This puppet is asked to play this stupid game for the USA, and being in fellowship in the CFR!
The Canadians know who to bow the knee to. This is not the country Pearson or Diefenbaker anymore.

Posted by: Taffyboy | Feb 21 2019 22:19 utc | 19

So if we sign up with Huawei, as a bonus we no longer have to deal with the Empire? Where do I sign?

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 21 2019 22:21 utc | 20

Is everyone here totally ignorant that this 5G is a military weapon? Those fooling around with it in Belgium have killed tons of birds yet few seem to care what these microwaves do to humans as well. Microwaves at super high rates of speed destroy body cell parts by ultra vibration, tearing apart molecules and even creating new ones not made by God, worse than GMOed food. No one will have livable health long with these waves invading their bodies. Is speed of communications really more important than the health of everything that has life?
Get real, people.

Posted by: Tony B. | Feb 21 2019 22:36 utc | 21

thanks b.. and thanks @ 5 jonku for the canuck update on all this..
@ arby / jen / taffboy… little hitler stevie harper is just doing what he is best known for!
i suspect canada will accept the huawei gear and telus will be ahead.. we’ll see… canada does a certain amount of sucking up to the uk too… if it is good enough for britian, i think canada will accept it..

Posted by: james | Feb 21 2019 22:44 utc | 22

5G is the next step down the rabbit hole. Besides being a weaponized microwave network that can be used to “fry us all.” it will greatly enhance the surveillance capabilities of the government in terms of intel gathering and data mining.
Smart-City planners will use it for total surveillance and micro-management of society using tools like Palantir thats being employed in New Orleans for pre-crime predictive programming… and surveillance cameras with facial recognition software to identify up 2000 people per minute in Los Angeles subway system
5G and the ‘internet of things,’ will be the backbone of the critical infrastructure that will run the planets smart cities and control autonomous vehicles and robotics through AI much more effectively than 4G
With 5G every device in every home that uses energy will be “its own computer,” and the planetary grid will connect ALL these devices to a soon to be created monitoring and regulating Energy Authority.
Continuous real-time measuring of both energy production and energy use from one end of the planet to the other so that energy consumption could be controlled globally, nationally, regionally and individually
Ultimately, they want to be able to measure every unit of energy used by every device in every home—and through AI, regulate how much energy every individual will be allowed to consume, moment to moment.
Terms and projects like smart grid, smart meters, sustainability, Agenda 21, smart cities, climate change, green economy is part of the Technocratic planning and justification for Rule through Energy.
A global Energy Authority will be created and may decide that a small African country needs to be given much more energy, while Germany or France or the US will have to sacrifice energy for the cause of social justice. Air conditioners will be remotely prevented from being set too high or low.
The whole hidden purpose of an Global and National Energy Authority is control. Thats why the US needs to control the nations with significant oil and gas resources
Because the Authority will be Globalist and Technocratic, it aims to lower energy use in industrial nations and help wreck their economies, making it much easier to move in and take over the wealth of the non-elites and con complying elites.
The worlds reserve currencies will be changed to energy based or carbon digital credits. Cash will cease to exist for more perfect control.
Those with poor social credit based on increased surveillance may be denied credit or have it reduced and unable to buy or limited in purchases of energy and food and may have travel restricted
I think I will stick with 4G thank you.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 21 2019 22:48 utc | 23

Well I guess I got my answer/s on Canada and Huawei.

Posted by: arby | Feb 21 2019 23:16 utc | 24

@ JohninMK #6

My problem with 5G is that the huge increase in number of towers and the signal strength needed is going to be a lot more hazardous to our brains and others than anything that has come before it.

This discussion whetted my curiousity to the point of searching for studies about the effects of this radiation on lab animals. My problem is that so far I’ve been unable to locate any such studies. One tidbit I did find was about wildlife.
A new study finds that the big cats and other endangered animals do best in places where there’s no phone coverage.
At Google Scholar about all I saw was this:
5 G wireless telecommunications expansion: Public health and environmental implications
I don’t understand why researching this would be difficult. Find a reputable and well-run chicken operation. Put the transmitters inside an isolated building so their radiation would match that in a typical suburban neighborhood. Compare the dead-chicken numbers in this building with another one totally out of range. Or do it with lab rats. Insects could be another experimental critter. Surely flies and mosquitoes aren’t terribly expensive.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 21 2019 23:19 utc | 25

But the renowned China expert Gordon Chang says that Huawei stole everything from western companies that produce inferior communications equipment like Motorola
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-chinese-theft-is-becoming-a-global-menace/
Gordon Chang says so, it must be true, bray bray says the Neocon idiot looking to be affirmed.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Feb 21 2019 23:47 utc | 26

What I see from this development is not just 5G but Technology in general as the primary driver of economies and thus growth. The best current example backing my hypothesis can be seen in Putin’s State of the Nation Address I linked to and briefly discussed yesterday. Do please open the link in another window, hit Ctrl & F to bring up the search feature, type in technology, and read the sections those 15 results provide to see exactly what I mean. As you’ll see, what’s on Putin’s mind goes well beyond the narrow spectrum of technological development 5G represents; it forms the entire basis for Russia’s economic development program that touches virtually every economic sector. I’d also say what Putin presents is exactly what an Industrial Policy is supposed to look like and include–sure, there’re incentives for the private sector and its investment is certainly coveted; but it’s the state’s impetus that’s behind the entire policy drive, just as it is with China and other smartly mixed economies and not at all like that of the Outlaw US Empire, which still relies on 18th Century Laisse Faire philosophy almost exclusively. (b provided a few examples of the drawbacks of that reliance.)
When we look at what’s driving the overall Eurasian economic expansion, we see similar state-designed technological-industrial policies as the primary powerhouse. Just what are the connectivities Pepe Escobar’s continually citing in his reports monitoring BRI’s growth?–They are all end products of advanced technologies. What we’re experiencing is something that doesn’t get stressed enough–The West’s being outdone Intellectually when it comes to societal productivity–another one of Putin’s points you’ll read in his speech that’s a national developmental priority just as it is in China and throughout ASEAN. For example, if you read Imran Khan’s plan for Pakistan, you’ll see all these components being pushed as he tries to move his nation from the 19th into the 21st Century.
What fundamentally mires the Outlaw US Empire is its total focus on Imperialism which is no longer a sufficient economic driver–it’s so 19th & 20th Century, passé–and is actually becoming an anchor–an inhibitor–detrimental to dynamic economic growth. Why is the Empire so deeply indebted such that its continual pursuit of the same policy goals of 75 years ago now promise to sink instead of float the boat? Clearly, when you read Trump, neocon and neoliberal tweets, they cannot think outside their antiquated box, and instead trip all over themselves a la the 3 Stooges. That’s what’s being exemplified by the battle over the implementation of the Green New Deal versus continuation of the clearly failed status quo–the further failed financialization of the Outlaw US Empire’s economy that’s dooming it to being non-competitive.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2019 0:01 utc | 27

All the research I discover states clearly that 5G is a kill grid set to monitor and depopulate with a slow kill.
Deborah Tavares of stopthecrime.net has several interviews of this deadly technology. It was developed by Israel and they refuse to allow it in the country

Posted by: Don Task | Feb 22 2019 0:12 utc | 28

Thanks to all who posted about the health issues. They are real and were first addressed in genuine public fashion by Robert O. Becker in his “The Electric Body” and “Cross Currents.” He is worth a read as much for the elegance of his experimental designs as for his conclusions.
The current lack of research is a function of the ownership of science, i.e., who funds it and therefore directs it.
As far as China’s ability to design engineer and fabricate hi-tech, Apple’s Tim Cook had this to say recently:
Apple CEO Tim Cook: This Is the Number 1 Reason We Make iPhones in China (It’s Not What You Think)

“The number one reason why we like to be in China is the people. China has extraordinary skills. And the part that’s the most unknown is there’s almost 2 million application developers in China that write apps for the iOS App Store. These are some of the most innovative mobile apps in the world, and the entrepreneurs that run them are some of the most inspiring and entrepreneurial in the world. Those are sold not only here but exported around the world.”
. .
“China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world.
. . .
And the idea that Apple simply hands over the design to a company like ICT, which just manufacturers according to spec, is simply untrue, says Cook:
“It’s not designed and sent over, that sounds like there’s no interaction. The truth is, the process engineering and process development associated with our products require innovation in and of itself. . . . we want to make things in the scale of hundreds of millions, and we want the quality level of zero defects.
. . .
the truth is China stopped being the low labor cost country many years ago. And that is not the reason to come to China from a supply point of view. The reason is because of the skill, and the quantity of skill in one location and the type of skill it is.”
And China has an abundance of skilled labor unseen elsewhere, says Cook:
“The products we do require really advanced tooling, and the precision that you have to have, the tooling and working with the materials that we do are state of the art. And the tooling skill is very deep here. In the US you could have a meeting of tooling engineers and I’m not sure we could fill the room. In China you could fill multiple football fields.”
Cook credits China’s vast supply of highly skilled vocational talent:
“The vocational expertise is very very deep here, and I give the education system a lot of credit for continuing to push on that even when others were de-emphasizing vocational. Now I think many countries in the world have woke up and said this is a key thing and we’ve got to correct that. China called that right from the beginning.”

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 22 2019 0:24 utc | 29

@JohninMK 6
John, you are absolutely correct. Every CISCO router was “NSA certified” that is code-manipulated to supply info to it. Probably, the main component of Cisco’s market success was that it had 100% support of the US Deep State to spy on everyone domestic and foreign. This is well known but b does not mention it. 5G mobile/cellular networks are less important for spying than the Internet infrastructure. Therefore, I suspect that the main reason for the attack on Huawei is not spying, which will remain US prerogative, then simple killing of a better competitor.
It is interesting that China has responded to Australia’s freedom of navigation ops in South China see and Australia’s banning on Huawei with the permanent ban on Australian coal exports to China, which immediately hurt Australia dollar. The Wicked Witch of the West who cooked up most of this toxic brew, a nobody called Julie Bishop, will now become the Australia’s ambassador to US. This is how the cookie crumbles in the vassal countries.
Finally, John, do not worry too much about radiation from 5G towers. They will be much, much less toxic to our health than the exhaust from the omnipresent vehicles. This is because the electromagnetic power drops with a square of distance. Unless you live right in front of a tower, you will be safe. It is the phone’s radiation that we should be much more concerned about. 5G works on a much higher radio frequency, higher than even microwave ovens, which means that it carries more energy. Although more (that is closer) towers means less energy required from the phone, the phones are the key problem. A radiation source of such high energy so close to our heads could wrack havoc with our biology. I have spent my professional life working with radio emitters and I have come to believe that there might be a negative biological effect of prolonged exposure. As with most other situations – it is a matter of dosage: harmless in low dosage, crossing different sensitivity thresholds of different individuals to cause illness, aka condemned by statistics. Hope this makes sense.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 0:29 utc | 30

Just the first technology where China has taken a lead over US and world. Made easier by the Telecom world always seeking combined development (Europe style) rather than winner takes all (US style).
There will be many more. My guess is that they will lead in AI soon.
The US is right to open up trade war with China. It will slow down the point where China is the dominant world power from 2030 to 2040. Had the US been awake it could probably have stopped it altogether, but 15 years too late for that.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Feb 22 2019 0:30 utc | 31

pogohere @30–
Thanks for providing convincing confirmation of China’s lead in and growth of its societal productivity I mentioned as one of Putin’s policy goals in my comment @28.
Where within the Outlaw US Empire is anything to compare with the following from Putin’s speech? The only time I remember anything similar being uttered by a POTUS was JFK soon after Sputnik:
“At the end of August, Russia will host the WorldSkills world championships – so let us wish our team success. Their success is significant for increasing the prestige of the skilled labor occupation. Relying on the WorldSkills movement experience, we will accelerate the modernisation of secondary vocational education, which includes installing modern equipment at more than 2,000 shops in colleges and technical schools by 2022.
“Passion for a future career and creativity is formed at a young age. In the next three years, thanks to the development of children’s technology parks, quantoriums and education centres for computer skills, natural sciences and the humanities, around one million new spots in extracurricular education programmes will be created. All children must have access.”
Instead, the entire educational policy of the USA lies in shambles thanks to the unremitting efforts to privatize public schooling by starving school districts of critical funding that began with Reagan and continues today.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2019 0:38 utc | 32

5G is slow, and limited compared, to 100 year old + com tech already in use by the US black world.
There’s also serious evidence that the microwaves from cell towers kill bees, birds, and disrupt nature in all sorts of nasty ways.
That’s right, cell phones use microwaves, which cook things.
So big, wasteful, and likely harmful, distraction.

Posted by: Jay | Feb 22 2019 0:39 utc | 33

Karlof1@28
You are writing the US obit too early
According to the National Science Foundation’s (NSF) Science and Engineering Indicators 2018 report the United States is the global leader in science and technology (S&T).
The 2018 report shows the U.S. invests the most in research and development (R&D), attracts the most venture capital, awards the most advanced degrees, provides the most business, financial and information services, and is the largest producer in high-technology manufacturing sectors.
The complete report (www.nsf.gov/statistics/2018/nsb20181/).
The U.S. still leads by many S&T measures, but that the lead is decreasing in certain areas. China is playing catchup but in areas like 5G may be as much as 1 yr ahead
The U.S. led the world in R&D expenditures at $496 billion (26 percent share of the global total), China was a decisive second at 21 percent ($408 billion). China focus is geared primarily toward development rather than basic or applied research. Hence the US focus on IPR amidst China’s documented violations.
The U.S. is the largest producer of high-technology manufacturing (31 percent global share). This includes production of aircraft and spacecraft, semiconductors, computers, pharmaceuticals, and measuring and control instruments. China is second at 24 percent, more than doubling its share over the last decade.
The U.S. awarded the largest number of S&E doctoral degrees (40,000) of any country, followed by China (34,000)and Russia (19,000)
International students account for over 57 percent of graduate enrollments in computer sciences and engineering in the U.S. Seventy-nine percent of foreign doctoral graduate students choose to stay and work in the U.S. upon completion of their degree.
The business sector is the largest performer of R&D in the U.S., accounting for 72 percent of the $495 billion total in 2015. For several years, the annual rise in business R&D performance has accounted for most of the growth in overall U.S. R&D. Of the three main types of R&D — basic research, applied research and experimental development — businesses lead in both applied research (58 percent of $97 billion total) and experimental development (88 percent of $314 billion total). Higher education institutions perform the largest share of U.S. basic research (49 percent of $83 billion total) with government funding much of that.
The federal government remains the largest funder of basic research ($36.9 billion, 44 percent of total share), and is the primary driver of both innovative research and the training of the science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) workforce.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 22 2019 0:43 utc | 34

I note that some good political commentators here are shooting their brains off on the health effects of 5G. They know nothing about it, just picked up some quasi professional “expert” babble from the Internet and regurgitate. This is called not knowing your own limitations.
I have no vested interest in mobile communications, I am not in the field any more and thus I have no reason to defend 5G radiation. My advice is simple: if you would not put your head near the exhaust pipe of your car, then do not put your head near your mobile phone, but if you would not give up on the convenience of driving for the sake of the pollution that you are generating then do not give up on the convenience of mobile communications either. Humans consume and pollute, simple reality.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 0:43 utc | 35

@9
“Rise of financial capital is a sign of despair of capital, a symptom of falling rates of profit.”
No, the dominance of financial capital is what unbridled capitalism always leads to unless checked. Through the creation and control of giant corporations such as GE, US Steel, International Harvester, AT&T from 1900, then a major participation in the FED whan it was created in 1913, J P Morgan (most probably a Rothschild agent) was the single most powerful man in America. Finance capital dominated until the Great Depression, but from the New Deal to the 1960s it was subdued. The smartest kids in America went into industry not Wall Street in that period and we had the 30 golden years, as the French say. But slowly and surely finance capital sought to reassert itself and was finally crowned by Reagan and Thatcher at the end of the 1970s. Since then it has dominated everything. It makes me laugh when people talk about corporations ruling the world. Investment banks rule corporations. Any CEO who is not making the numbers is out on their ass. The Military Industrial complex is also a diversion. The numbers involved are miniscule compared to what is in play in financial markets. The miltary and its weaponry are simply at the service of the finance capital to enforce its will througout the world.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 22 2019 0:44 utc | 36

“This will allow for completely new applications like direct communication between (semi-)autonomous cars at any road crossing.”
Potentially this passing car-to-car method creates a whole new internet stream outside the main ISP. Just needs a few access points to the main internet for linkage but a significant portion of data messages could find their way around a large city or via highway simply by hopping around the nodes. Wouldn’t run video most likely but slower store and forward email type traffic would do fine. Expect the new gig economy with micro payments for providing car-based router passage. I’d call it “carnet”, but in theory bikes or even pedestrian traffic – whatever makes a network node.
And, btw, Australia is not a monolith – the Western Australian state government went ahead and assessed Huawei’s 5G for state/province level infrastructure and now is suffering the pressure from the usual suspects at national level (and beyond no doubt).
$136 million Metronet contract
The main FUD (fear, uncertainty & doubt) theme seems to be: “In a memo to … a State security expert within the Department of Premier and Cabinet, … warned that “technology provided by the Chinese may not be able to support a level of security” that would be appropriate when the system was upgraded in the future.”[The state premier is ex-navy so he’s probably in somewhat of a double bind.]
The question is, what is this “future upgrade” issue? Trump’s Skynet?
[Note: the Western Australian economy is almost totally reliant on Chinese markets for the state’s mineral and energy/LNG exports. Dilemma: the customer; or the Boss?]

Posted by: imo | Feb 22 2019 0:46 utc | 37

@32
“Made easier by the Telecom world always seeking combined development (Europe style) rather than winner takes all (US style).”
You’re not going to be a winner for long if you’re spending all your spare cash and going into debt to fund buybacks which keep the stock market artifically inflated, and as b. says fail to invest enough in R&D.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 22 2019 0:55 utc | 38

Whenever somebody uses media to scream FUD about sonething, such as 5G radiation or Huawei spying, almost always that somebody is making money off it (or protecting an existing stream of income).
“How green became the color of money” was a brilliant series of articles on Counterpunch Magazine it irs good old times of Alexander. Almost everything “green” in the contemporry Western society is some kind of rort. Anything banned is banned so that sonebody who invested in the ban (paid media and politician whores) can get return on his/her investment. Exactly the same principle applies to additional taxing, such as taxing of energy for anthropological global warming, whilst people who cannot afford the more expensive energy die from cold weather or from flue enhanced by living in unheated homes.
The parasites who turned the symbols of Jesus Christ’s tolerance and forgiveness into personal wealth will turn any other positive concept into personal wealth.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 1:19 utc | 39

Kiza
First off you dont have to use a smartphone to be affected by 5G, 4G or any other electro smog out there. By all accounts 5G will be more harmful. The burden is on the industry to prove safety. Do some research and tell me of a recent study showing its safe? You wont find one. Just like with big Pharma and Vaccine safety that the Supreme Court ruled is unavoidably unsafe. At least with vaccines they claim to save lives. Whats 5G going to do for you that 4G cant? Nothing. Show me its safe.
As for following the money, Big Pharma, Big Telecom, Big Brother are all rolling in it

Posted by: Pft | Feb 22 2019 1:37 utc | 40

@ Lochearn who wrote
”
It makes me laugh when people talk about corporations ruling the world. Investment banks rule corporations. Any CEO who is not making the numbers is out on their ass. The Military Industrial complex is also a diversion. The numbers involved are miniscule compared to what is in play in financial markets. The military and its weaponry are simply at the service of the finance capital to enforce its will throughout the world.
”
Good to read your comments again and thanks for the lucid summary of my understanding about how the world is ruled.
@ Kiza with the concerns about 5G who wrote
”
I have spent my professional life working with radio emitters and I have come to believe that there might be a negative biological effect of prolonged exposure. As with most other situations – it is a matter of dosage: harmless in low dosage, crossing different sensitivity thresholds of different individuals to cause illness, aka condemned by statistics. Hope this makes sense.
”
I spent my career as a computer and networking techie and share your concerns. Given the geo-political stakes involved I am not surprised by the lack of proper risk management but it won’t be the first time humanity has tickled the dragon’s tail…..
If there are problems they will surface as the usage ramps up who knows where the geo-political scene will be by then and how folks will respond….
Let me take this opportunity to rant about the incentives of private finance over public finance. The two options have different goals and the public one is focused on long run benefit to most and so are expected to do better risk management than the private type that pocket the profit and say the losses are worth it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 22 2019 1:40 utc | 41

It came out in the Snowden files that the NSA had placed backdoors in Huawei equipment.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nsa-spied-on-chinese-government-and-networking-firm-huawei-a-960199.html
It would make more sense to allow Chinese equipment into the US if the NSA wants to have freedom to hack the gear before attempting to do the same on the mainland.

Posted by: Les | Feb 22 2019 1:41 utc | 42

There is an interesting topic on the “sea turtles” that’s been floating around for a couple of years. China has courting new US university graduates and workers in Silicon Valley to return home.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ljkelly/2018/01/25/how-china-is-winning-back-more-graduates-from-foreign-universities-than-ever-before/#396ea9825c1e
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/chinese-workers-abandon-silicon-valley-for-riches-back-home

Posted by: Les | Feb 22 2019 1:45 utc | 43

Pft @35–
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I see nothing to confirm what the NSF reports. Where are all the results of those leading indicators? I see nothing productive or of use to humanity. I also wonder how many of those dollars spent only end up in corrupt pockets instead of doing anything useful. IMO, authors of the NSF report need to explain why the USA’s in such dire straits as seen by the authors of the National Security Strategy. The closest the Outlaw US Empire has ever had masquerading as a coherent industrial policy since 1938 is the War Budget. Ha! Just saw a TV ad touting all this great new tech prompting those wanting to use it to join the US Air Force! That pretty much seals my indictment of what stands for US policy direction as it slides further behind the rest of the world–excepting of course those nations bombed back to the Stone Age.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2019 1:47 utc | 44

@imo 38
Great comment, I was not aware that WA refused to follow the federal puppets.
One final comment regarding 5G radiation. I chuckle every time I think about the phrase “mobile/cellular phone”. The key problem word is “phone”. Having originated from the old landline phones, which had zero radiation hazard, when the concept of a mobile/cellular phone appeared the dumb engineers tried to make the handset to resemble the old landline handsets. They did not make them curved only because this would not fit into pockets well. But this design with a radio transmitter inside the handset near the head was either just spectacularly stupid or personal gain driven. As an engineer I personally would never have done that, just because of risk without proof of any harm, the proof that does not exist to this day.
Finally, for all the fans of Gene Roddenberry’s Start Trek, please remember that Gene was so brilliant never to let Captain Kirk’s crew expose their heads to the radiation of their communicators to Enterprise in orbit (LOL). This is why Gene is the Jules Verne of the XX century, way ahead of his time.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 1:54 utc | 45

“Britain’s National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), which] is part of Britain’s GCHQ intelligence agency”
In other words, Britains’ spies run the agency which has to protect Britain from computer viruses. This has to come in handy if a user stumbles upon a virus written by Britains secret service community itself.

Posted by: nick | Feb 22 2019 2:03 utc | 46

I am honestly glad to see that some commenters understand the health implications of 5G deployments. The consequences of previous generations of wireless deployments are already really bad, far worse than the lies of Big Tobacco. The biological consequences of having millimeter waves added on top of other wireless technologies will be catastrophic. People advocating for 5G are nutters. Those who think that it is a technology we need simply have no understanding of what they are talking about. B’s comment about (semi) autonomous cars needing it so that cars could communicate with each other shows a lack of understanding of how car security actually works. 5G is absolutely not needed.

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 2:05 utc | 47

@ Kiza
“I note that some good political commentators here are shooting their brains off on the health effects of 5G. They know nothing about it, just picked up some quasi professional “expert” babble from the Internet and regurgitate. This is called not knowing your own limitations.
I have no vested interest in mobile communications, I am not in the field any more and thus I have no reason to defend 5G radiation. My advice is simple: if you would not put your head near the exhaust pipe of your car, then do not put your head near your mobile phone, but if you would not give up on the convenience of driving for the sake of the pollution that you are generating then do not give up on the convenience of mobile communications either. Humans consume and pollute, simple reality.”
Your comment shows no understanding of what you are actually talking about. It is actually sad that people are so disinformed on the biological consequences of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) that they are able to post such idiocy. The research demonstrating this is likely older than you are. Try the Glazer reports if you have children and e d u c a t e yourself before trying to look smart.

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 2:12 utc | 48

@lili 49
I do not engage in confrontational debates in comments because after 27 years of commenting online I understand how pointless it is to try to confront every cretin with a keyboard. Therefore, take your comment turn it to yourself and you will be in the right place.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 2:19 utc | 49

@ Kiza 50
The difference is, I actually know what I am talking about. So much for the cretin.

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 2:22 utc | 50

I suspect this is about the NSA gaining easy access and keys to telecom networks than economics. The Intel people don’t like maybe we can hack them. Maybe people are telling trump it’s economics but their intent is otherwise.
I worked in wireless industry for 20 years, mainly with chip makers. There really are no major US providers of wireless networks any more and that’s been the case since the end of 3G. Everyone merged. The US cos really stopped being prominent as early as 2G because GSM far outsold the US version of TDMA and CDMA combined.
There are many US companies that provide various components (radio chips, antenna tech, digital processor chips, FPGAs, software, etc) but no actual system integrators of note who might compete with Huawei or Ericsson. Maybe Cisco is worried it will get displaced in the switch side but Cisco ain’t got that much DC leverage.
I see no parallel initiative to develop a greater US presence in the wireless network system segment. I guess US component suppliers might be worried that Huawei and and ZTE will use Chinese suppliers (themselves even) but again those US component suppliers ain’t that influential and most system suppliers rejected not made internally syndrome long ago. Most collaborate heavily with outside vendors and they seek to optimize their systems with whatever works best. That said, Qualcomm likely has strong lobbying but compared to the intelligence community I’d say Qualcomm has little power. Then again trump is an idiot so who knows.

Posted by: Alaric | Feb 22 2019 2:23 utc | 51

Most of the domestic companies collapsed in 2001 from the debt raised to compete with the RBOC’s during the 90’s. Worldcom’s infrastructure was acquired by Verizon. There was massive investment of 1.1 trillion dollars over 5 years in networks at the time. We have a similar buildup of redundant capacity in semis and networking equipment by the Chinese to get away from importing 200 billion dollars in chips annually.

Posted by: Les | Feb 22 2019 2:37 utc | 52

Zachary Smith # 26
Humans are much better to run a trial on as they communicate well to the clinicians and can describe the pain in their head or the emptiness they feel deep inside.
Chickens, bees and butterflys cant describe that so well. Then there are all the technology salves to sell for the ‘cure’ and so you get all ships rising on the tide of consumer bliss.
DIY faraday cage and play sheds in the backyard for the kiddies and maybe the adults.
The five anus countries are really pathetic. Especially the clowns in the south pacific.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 22 2019 3:04 utc | 53

@Pft 41
You deserve a response for your previous quality political commentary, which I enjoyed.
It is terribly naive to expect that when money is concerned someone will do some 10 years of hyper expensive research to prove or disprove a hypothesis which is not blatantly obvious. Therefore, you putting an onus on one industry to prove that it will not be harmful to us is just completely unrealistic. Lumping mobile communications with children’s vaccines criminality only chips away from your credibility.
I tried to explain that I came to a personal belief that the non-ionising radio frequency radiation is biologically harmful to humans in large doses and after prolonged exposure to the vital tissues such as the brain. The human biology is such that exposure to almost anything will cause detrimental effects on some scale of individual sensitivity. In other words, beans are one of the healthiest foods available due to their high amino-acid content, but someone will get sick and die from eating too much beans.
My apology for this expression, but when you complain about radiation from 5G base stations on lamp posts (among many places) you are barking up a wrong lamp post. It is true that 5G base station will be everywhere, but for this same reason, as others pointed out, their power will be much lower. Personally, I would not expect the overall health effect of the 5G base stations to be much worse than the effects of current 4G towers. We need to also appreciate that, to save energy, the base stations do not radiate when there is no mobile phone talking to them or pinging them (I am here, in your coverage cell).
I point out again that the problem is with the phones not with stations, unless you are right in front of one (bees & birds). As the phone battery becomes more sophisticated, storing more energy, the phone’s transmitter can radiate more power and longer, whilst the power/energy drop off with distance does not work in our favour with phones as it works with base stations. One ironic side-effect is that the further we are away from a 4G tower, the more radiation we will absorb from our own phone. In summary, I do expect that yet-to-be developed 5G mobile phones to be more harmful than the current 4G phones.
Finally, I will try illustrate my personal opinion about the background pollution for a person walking down a street. If 5G base stations on a lamp-post will be relative amount 1, then the current car exhausts are 1,000, the leaded and diesel car exhausts are 10,000. Holding a 5G phone next to your head is probably around 10,000. This very rough comparison is based on my awareness of carcinogenic effects of different pollutants. However, this comparison does not take into account the individual sensitivity, for example my lungs are much more sensitive to polluted air than my body to is to wireless radiation. Although I spent my life working with radio transmitters, I am more likely to die of lung cancer than of a brain tumour caused by wireless (5G) radiation.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 3:18 utc | 54

Not so fast, b
Andrei Martyanov, a well known russian geopolitical expert:
“China surrendered in the trade war with the US”
“As I state time after time, while China’s economic successes are very impressive, economy which boomed initially primarily thanks to Western (a lot of it American) wealth and technology transfers in 1980s-2000s, can not exist without, however stupid the arrangement is, American market. In this sense China and US are a pair, no matter how one looks at it.
In layman’s lingo–China surrendered and Trump pressed China (by not always diplomatic means) into negotiations with agenda defined by the US, not China. I think Moscow takes note, in fact–I know so. So, for people who try to see in Russian-Chinese geopolitical arrangements more than there is in reality, they should understand why in this arrangement the United States still separates Russia and China as two centers of power–Washington thinks that it can coerce China and such thinking is not far fetched, in Russian case the United States deals with the nation whose history is one of unparalleled and, I may add, successful fight for survival and keeping the realm. China is the largest economy in the world, but in terms of main component of geopolitical power–military–China is a novice. This is the main factor which defines a set of attitudes of Washington to Eurasian arrangement, because China can not defend most of Eurasia, Russia can and does, both kinetically and in her potential. And, while at it, for people who idealize Russian-Chinese relations, they have to remember that even shrewd Deng was a massive Russophobe and China had no problems with supplying Afghan mujaheddin with weapons and materiel. Nothing personal, folks, just business. So, let’s put it this way–it is complicated.”
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2019/02/some-interesting-news.html

Posted by: Passer by | Feb 22 2019 3:27 utc | 55

I would also challenge the assertion that huawei is ahead in 5G technology. They might have a solution that is better and more complete than what Ericsson has internally but in wireless the leading tech is often in the hands of start ups and the wiser course for a system integrator is to develop a working system from the best components available.
Large firms are risk adverse and rarely innovators in basic tech because the payback for such activities is dubious and long term at best. They generally wait for techs to mature so they are rarely tech leaders. 5G relies heavily on smart antenna technologies, which really are an off shoot of military phased arrays. Ditto for “millimeter” wireless (28, 31, 38 Ghz etc). The development of radio and semiconductor tech for such operating frequencies relied heavily on defense spending, especially the semiconductor side, mainly in the west.
It might be more accurate to say Huawei is leading commercialization of 5G though not necessarily tech. That award goes to the start ups and labs around the world.

Posted by: Alaric | Feb 22 2019 3:31 utc | 56

@Hoarsewhisperer:
No, IBM didn’t understand that it was possible to reverse engineer the software called the BIOS. Each company’s PC BIOS is specific to that company’s PCs.
If Compaq hadn’t done its own PC (clone) BIOS, Microsoft wouldn’t have gone anywhere.
In the early 1980s, IBM was also acutely aware of the fact that AT+T had just been broken up for anti-trust reasons.
Then those early IBM PCs offered 3 different OSes, MS-DOS, IBM’s system, and I believe CPM, and idiots trying to save a buck or three “saved” money by purchasing the machine with the unstable piece of garbage MS-DOS running it.
The only thing Microsoft was smart about was working with other software and hardware vendors so MS-DOS would sort of support programs and hardware not from Microsoft. IBM, HP, Apple, Digital Equipment, Sun, etc weren’t great at welcoming other software and hardware vendors into their systems. Notably only Apple remains in the business of designing and selling computers to the masses.

Posted by: Jay | Feb 22 2019 3:32 utc | 57

Posted by: Pft | Feb 21, 2019 7:43:14 PM | 35
Lots of big talk yet the US admits that it has issues with its STEM workforce and industrial production.
For example:
Assessing and Strengthening the Manufacturing and Defense Industrial Base and Supply Chain Resiliency of the United StatesReport to President Donald J. Trump
”
Inadequate U.S. Skilled Labor Supply
The U.S. machine tools sector lacks assured access to a sufficiently large pool of skilled labor. Many skilled workers are exiting the workforce due to age, and there are too few technical educational programs to train those who could take their place. Without concerted action that provides both a ready workforce and a continuously-charged pipeline of new employees, the U.S. will not be able to maintain the large, vibrant, and diverse machine tools sector needed to produce the required number and types of products when needed. Market Forces Decreasing Domestic Capabilities The U.S. machine tools sector has been shrinking since at least the 1980s due to a number of primary and contributing factors with the U.S. standing dropping significantly since 2000. In 2015, China’s global machine tool production skyrocketed to $24.7B accounting for 28% of global production, while the U.S. accounted for only $4.6B, after China, Japan, Germany, Italy, and South Korea. According to the U.S. Census Bureau data, in 2015 there were 1,028 machine tool firms employing 27,919 people. ”
https://media.defense.gov/2018/Oct/05/2002048904/-1/-1/1/ASSESSING-AND-STRENGTHENING-THE-MANUFACTURING-AND-DEFENSE-INDUSTRIAL-BASE-AND-SUPPLY-CHAIN-RESILIENCY.PDF

Posted by: Passer by | Feb 22 2019 3:43 utc | 58

Watch Trump go “fair competition” on Toyota. The Japanese company is now the largest car manufacturer in the world, and General Motors has just laid off thousands of employees. I can see Trump attempting to fix this by kneecapping Toyota.

Posted by: Cyril | Feb 22 2019 3:58 utc | 59

Huawei was built on stolen technology from the West, including Cisco’s. In fact, the Operating System for Huawei’s equipment for a long time was the exact same as Cisco’s, including commands. The Cisco operating system was quite odd so this wasn’t some sort of coincidence. And Huawei didn’t discover 5G, it’s a consortium of companies that develop the standards. If Huawei was the first to implement them, it’s only because China doesn’t care as much about the health ramifications of such high power and ubiquitous telecom radiation. I don’t feel sorry for them at all, and neither should anyone else. 5G is not a good thing.

Posted by: Mischi | Feb 22 2019 4:13 utc | 60

Passer By
Shortage of skilled workers in manufacturing happens when you allow your manufacturing base to leave for low wage destinations like China and Mexico, and to allow your defense contractors to consolidate into a few companies reducing jobs and competition. That was dumb I said so when it started over 30 years ago
Science & Technology are still strengths of the US. Chinas advantage long term is they can more readily apply the science and technology due to a skilled work firce that was trained up by US and Taiwan engineers who helped transfer their companies operations to China. US does not really want to go back to non defense manufacturing but they do want China to honor their patents and IPR. Thats really what this trade spat is about.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 22 2019 4:57 utc | 61

Kiza@55
I disagree with you on safety. Manufacturers need to ensure their product is safe, as do government regulators.
In response to complaints from fire fighters subjected to 5G antennas, the International Association of Fire Fighters has gone on record as opposing “the use of fire stations as base stations for towers and/or antennas for the conduction of cell phone transmissions until a study with the highest scientific merit and integrity is conducted and it is proven that such sitings are not hazardous to the health of our members.”
This was after Firefighters in several different California counties from San Francisco to Sacramento to Los Angeles reported neurological damage, headaches, insomnia, memory problems and confusion soon after 5G equipment was installed outside of their fire stations.
According to a local CBS news report:
“These firefighters developed symptoms,” says Dr. Gunnar Heuser who conducted a pilot study on firefighters at a station with cell towers.
“The symptoms included problems with memory, problems with intermittent confusion, problems with weakness,” Heuser said.
Heuser says their brain scans suggest even low-level RF can cause cell damage and he worries about more vulnerable groups like kids.
“We found abnormal brain function in (MRI’s) all of the firefighters we examined,” Heuser said.”
There were about 300,000 wireless antennas on U.S. cell towers and buildings as of 2016 (a doubling since 2002), 5G will require millions of small cell towers every 500 feet “on every street corner.” The internet of things and many more devices communicating with 5G 24/7 will ensure constant transmission
In crowded locations such as airports, individuals’ bodies “will be penetrated by numerous beams of radiation as they walk or as other people walk around them with their 5G smartphones. Not using a 5G smartphone wont help you. Its like 2nd hand smoke , 2nd hand 5G will get you
Scientists, doctors and experts from around the world have issued repeated warnings about 5G’s risks, drawing on published research on MMWs as well as thousands of studies showing the harms caused by other mobile and wireless technologies.
Industry and government claims that 5G technology is safe. Like claims Vaccines are safe despite the Supreme Courts ruling they are “unavoidably unsafe “ so manufacturers cant be sued.
Researchers have warned that “the same parts of the human skin that allow us to sweat also respond to 5G radiation much like an antenna that can receive signals.
When the FCC endorsed the transition to 5G in 2016, then-Chairman Tom Wheeler (a former telecom industry lobbyist) vowed “to allow 5G technologies and innovations to go forward without needlessly prescriptive regulations.” FCC proposed no further safety studies, instead continuing to rely on its “outdated, and widely criticized, radiation-exposure guidelines that are based primarily on a 30-year-old analysis many years before the emergence of most of the digital wireless technology in use today. Thats unacceptable

Posted by: Pft | Feb 22 2019 5:09 utc | 62

Re %G and the well being of life on Earth:
It is established that a wide variety of insect populations have crashed over the last few years or decades in many places and widespread areas on Earth.
The Canadian Dana Durnford sailed in 2015 for about 15000 (fifteen thousand) miles (roughly 25000 kilometers) along the Pacific shorelines and islands of the West Coast of Canada and filmed and documented the flora and fauna he encountered. He even employed underwater cameras. This was an area previously prolific in its diversity of lifeforms, thousands of species. Fish and fowl and insect and mammal and many species of kelp and sea anemones and clams and sea stars etc etc etc. He summarized his findings with the words: “Everything is missing.”
The book Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and The Environment, based on thousands of studies, summarized it in roughly these words ‘Everything that has been studied that was exposed to the radiation releases showed evidence of harm’.
In New Jersey the autism rates in 2014 were 1 in 34.
Cancer rates in the US are close to 4 in 10 lifetime.
These are a mere tip of the iceberg list indicating that the biosphere and us home sapiens are already under, to put it mildly, massive assault, largely human generated. I say “largely” because there are also natural processes at work that can do a lot of damage. So for example, more cosmic radiation and solar wind wacking us due to a collapsing magnetosphere.
Re EMFs
BioInitiative 2012 followed up on its 2007 report by reviewing an additional 1600 studies on EMFs that dealt with lower level frequencies up to roughly cell phone/microwave frequencies. Conclusion summary statement was “Bioeffects are clearly established to occur with very low exposure levels (non-thermal levels) to electromagnetic fields and radiofrequency radiation exposures.” The report has been updated until recently with many additional reasons for concern.
One of the great persistent problems in properly assessing the actual implications of so much of the technological juggernaut is that the gleam of profit, and the ‘imperative’ of military applications and potential, far far outweigh the power of the cautionary principle. In addition, apart from those factors, the nerd people developing the new technologies are (E O Wilson was it who said?) “obsessed enthusiasts.” I have cool idea. Let’s see what happens if we blow up the planet!
In addition, people doing studies maybe showing problems with any money making or military application technology have a lot of constraining hoops to jump through, while those who purport to demonstrate say that ‘Why glyphosate ain’t dangerous at all’, get clear sailing and corporate adoration.
5G is at best yet another reckless dive into who knows what by a species firmly established to be foresight-challenged, or, at the other boundary, if knowledge already is established that 5G has lethal implications for life on a large scale, it is pure evil.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Feb 22 2019 5:12 utc | 63

@ uncle tungsten 54
Hey uncle, I agree with you regarding two anuses in the South Pacific.
But researching the effects of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) is not as easy as Zachary imagines with his poor chicken. If EMR was harmful, it would have been proven clearly by now as significant research has been done and published. Unfortunately, there are as many bad-for-you as neutral-for-you research conclusions. This is why it has to be related to the dosage and the duration of exposure. Yet, the main thing missing from this is the mechanism of harm. Non-ionizing EMR radiation has the well know effect of cooking the tissues, because the water molecules start oscillating and converting EMR to movement and heat. Thus microwave ovens. In my radio career, I have heard anecdotes, for example of a guy who slipped into a horn radio antenna and got his brain cooked by its microwaves. There is also a number of movies with babies of mafia opponents placed in microwave ovens to extract information from their parents. But how would non-ionizing radiation cause tumors? No proof and no explanation yet, despite what the US paid and for-free crazies here bs about 5G.
Apparently, that anti-Government British physicist of online fame, who got arrested by the British Deep State for his “crimes” totally unrelated to 5G (domestic disturbance, he shouted) had a very interesting theory on this. His theory is that any material exposed to high-energy concentrated EMR will suffer subatomic effects which will result in production of nuclear alpha and/or beta-waves (alpha being atomic nuclei and beta being electrons) neither of which can travel far. Therefore, human tissue exposed to EMR could irradiate itself with ionizing nuclear radiation of a very low level and very short distance of travel, occasionally knocking molecules off cellular genes (cancer). Please note that such low intensity and pico-meter short distance radiation could never be detected with any of our current technology. Thus no proof possible. But, to my knowledge, this is the closest that anyone has ever come to explaining how (ostensibly) non-ionizing EMR could hurt humans beyond cooking them.
Intelligent people should never react to the word “radiation” the same as my mother-in-law reacted to the first microwave oven I brought home. Simply, intelligent people try to understand before they open their mouths or touch their keyboards.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 5:32 utc | 64

Pft @ 62
If the current technology conflict between the US and China was “just” about intellectual property, then the US wouldn’t be demanding that China essentially hand over control of its industrial policy to the US. The US wouldn’t be trying to drastically restrict the ability of the Chinese government to organize and fund scientific and technological research in China. The US has known since the 1970s and 1980s that China would try to learn enough about US technology to develop its own product lines. But they considered that an acceptable part of the price of doing business with the Chinese, because they assumed they would always be far ahead of the Chinese technologically. The thing that makes the current situation threatening to the US is that China is now rapidly developing its own scientific and technological capabilities to the point where the US can no longer assume it will have an economic or military lead over the Chinese ten or twenty years from now.

Posted by: Glenn | Feb 22 2019 5:35 utc | 65

It is not correct that US companies produce network hardware
platforms. The last company in that business was
CISCO, and it stopped manufacturing 2 years ago.
US can now only buy equipment from Finnish Nokia
or Swedish Erricson. Or South Korean Sumsjng — or from
Huawei.
How did this happen? Stupidity. Companies are not
investing in science or costly manufacturing but
are happy to buy. Problem is —Huawei is more
advanced and cheaper. So, we are putting our
5G on top of 4G network equipment, jn short
cannot perform 5G functions. So — a mega failure in
noticing that competitirs are not sttealing our technoligy
but are ahead of us. Unless money goes into science
the gap will only increase. But noe, gap exists
in too many fields.

Posted by: Bianca | Feb 22 2019 5:41 utc | 66

Hoarsewhisperer @19: What’s 5G going to do that 4G can’t do?
IMO robots.
I don’t know how susceptible humans are to 5G emissions. But those who control the robots may not care if other people get cancers. Who will dare serve a warrant on someone with a robot security force?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 22 2019 6:00 utc | 67

@Pft | Feb 21, 2019 7:43:14 PM | 35
The U.S. awarded the largest number of S&E doctoral degrees (40,000) of any country, followed by China (34,000)and Russia (19,000)
China (at 34,000 Science and Engineering doctoral degrees per year) has almost caught up to the U.S. (40,000). Not bad for a country that was at African levels of poverty seventy years ago.
A second point is that many of the U.S.’s 40,000 are not Americans. So China may have caught up already, maybe gone past the U.S., if we count only those PhDs who are citizens of their respective countries.
Thirdly, China is opening a university a week. If the Middle Kingdom hasn’t already surpassed the U.S. in terms of scientists, it will soon. And the gap will grow.

Posted by: Cyril | Feb 22 2019 6:01 utc | 68

@ Kiza #65

But researching the effects of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) is not as easy as Zachary imagines with his poor chicken.

I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know the least thing about testing animals. What bothers me is that I can’t find any studies about the effects of the 5G radiation. Your point about concentrating on the individual phone users is well taken, so I think I’d blast whatever critters were chosen as test subjects with radiation levels equivalent to those received by a typical human cell phone user. Also, they’d get the same number of minutes or hours exposure as those humans. Small dogs or cats have a decent life span, so off the top of my head they’d be the vertebrates of choice. The plan would be to let all of them – test subjects and controls alike – live out their lives in peace. Only at their deaths would they be examined by medical technicians.
As for myself, I went without a cell phone for quite a while when my previous one croaked. After a car breakdown I found it prudent to buy another one of the things. In normal use it gets turned on and a call made maybe once a week. Needless to say, I know of only two or three other people who either don’t have a phone or (like me) refuse to use it under normal circumstances.
🙂

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 22 2019 6:18 utc | 69

@ Cyril with the BBC link about China opening a university a week
Thanks for the interesting article which I would have provided the following take away quote from:
”
In the latest round of the OECD Pisa tests, the 10% most disadvantaged 15-year-olds in Shanghai scored higher in mathematics than the 10% most privileged 15-year-olds in the United States.
”
What the article failed to detail is the cost of education in China/Asia and I cannot add such myself. I expect it is relatively inexpensive which is why they don’t detail that. Think about what it says of China that it is not afraid of an educated populace but the West is and inhibits higher education for most because of cost.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 22 2019 6:28 utc | 70

@psychohistorian | Feb 22, 2019 1:28:30 AM | 71
Thanks for the interesting article
You’re welcome.
Think about what it says of China that it is not afraid of an educated populace but the West is and inhibits higher education for most because of cost.
China’s government is truly “of the people, by the people, for the people”. I don’t know how long China will avoid a class of hereditary elites, but at the moment the government is still mostly meritocratic. The U.S. is not of the people any more, if it has ever been — though the rhetoric is loud.

Posted by: Cyril | Feb 22 2019 7:10 utc | 71

Given that Greater China (PRC, Taiwan, Singapore) boasts world’s highest IQs, and correspondingly commands around 40 percent of global brainpower (even Silicon Valley can’t function without it), any US efforts to thwart Chinese high-tech ambitions are hopeless at best, suicidal at worst.
The latest broadsides at Chinese corporate champions not only will not stop China 2025 program, but will surely accelerate it by 2-3 years. Behind the scene, Beijing will pour all of the resources necessary to make sure that China can produce full line of indigenous semiconductors, as well as wafer-manufacturing machines no later than 2022.
Chinese can’t afford to have their economic crown jewels getting whipsawed by American mood swings.
Right now they’ll throw Trump few easy bones by purchasing more Boeing planes (at the expense of Airbus), soybeans (by shifting away from Brazil) and coal (by embargoing Australia), but soon enough they’ll eliminate all of their most glaring vulnerabilities, and their negotiating position will stiffen considerably.

Posted by: telescope | Feb 22 2019 7:33 utc | 72

@ telescope who wrote
”
Chinese can’t afford to have their economic crown jewels getting whipsawed by American mood swings.
”
I know you were writing about China technology but I am still nervous as are others about if what you write is true about their banking system.
A year ago next month they made a rule change that allows external entities to own 51% or controlling interest in financial institutions. I have read about a couple of big banks setting up business in China but not sure if the existing global private banking system will buy its way into China and take over. I certainly hope not.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 22 2019 7:44 utc | 73

Posted by: barovsky | Feb 22 2019 10:48 utc | 74

@ Zachary 70
Zachary thank you for your comment. Let me try to explain why testing for EMR radiation effects is not easy. Firstly, there may not be much research in the public domain about 5G effects, but there is quite a bit of research and experience about the radio signals of the same frequency, used in satellite communications and in military radar. Nothing stands out. Also, to my knowledge, my radio communication colleagues have not died from tumors more than the average in the population. As professionals we have been exposed more to radio-emissions than the average consumers. But somebody who spends 10 hours on a mobile phone close to the body, over the years would probably absorb more energy than I and my colleagues did. My colleagues and I were always near the high-power EMR sources, but we did not keep them only millimeters away from our bodies (remember that EMR energy drops with square of distance). Then how do you simulate 5G human exposure on animals and whose exposure do you simulate (that of a realtor who spends 10 hours a day on the cellular phone, 7 days a week)?
BTW, looking at the military radar colleagues from my past, more of them were killed by US HARM missiles (targeting radars) than by tumors. Maybe this could put the 5G bull into perspective for you.
It is a general rule of physics that the higher the frequency of emission (the shorter the wavelength) the more energy the emission carries, the better can the energy be focused and the more information the payload it can carry. This applies to the whole electromagnetic spectrum and beyond, X-rays, nuclear radiation – all the way to the borderline between energy and matter, the cosmic rays/particles. But in radio communication, propagation-wise the ideal frequency for mobile communications are as low as the frequencies of the FM radio (around 100MHz) and up to the frequencies of the first mobile phones (800Mhz). But the problem of these frequencies is that they can carry voice, but very little of data (remember 2G?). For 3G with better data, the mobiles/cellulars had to move to 1800Mhz band. Now, the data data hungry smart phones are forcing a bad compromise between truly problematic propagation and the higher data carrying capacity. Apparently, 5G will utilize the current 3G bands for voice and low data demands and will switch to the “terrible bands” of 24,000-86,000 MHz only when clear line-of-sight is available between the phone and the base station.
Is 5G harmful to humans – yes it is. Will people keep dropping dead on the street – no they will not. Compared with burning hydrocarbons every day and with US and Soviet open atmosphere nuclear explosion tests, 5G radiation is a joke. The 5G base stations are a joke coming from countries which do not have a lead in 5G. All of a sudden the birds will start dropping out of the sky, the firefighters will refuse to approach the base stations etc etc. Just as the polar bears already got extinct by AGW (LOL). 5G base station scare belongs to the same Idiocracy as Russiagate etc etc. It just proves that prevalence of cretinism per head of population in the West is rising compared with other countries, as appropriate with overall intellectual decline.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 11:13 utc | 75

Interoperability; Imagine having to try to remember a password before you can get a cup of coffee in the morning.
=====
Side question. As US embassies are technological and electronic “spy stations” – were the “headaches and other physical effects” felt by US diplomats in the US embassy in Cuba, provoked by EMR’s originating from inside the same Embassy?
====
Karlof1 @28 and 33.
Thanks for the link. I don’t think that many people have experienced a situation where a “common intelligence” for a group led to a dynamic and functional society. (Such as existed in the 1970-80 in Europe.) So they have difficulty in imagining exactly what Putin and Surkov are talking about. ie. A society where multiple classes can cooperate – towards the common “good”. (Even “patrons can meet andcoexist with “workers”). Dissent is allowable, as is “fraternity” with other social classes.

Posted by: stonebird | Feb 22 2019 11:16 utc | 76

super expert dismisses concerns with heavy doses of shaming. what does that smell like.
as regards radiation, i think we need to consider the compounding effects of human-caused pollution coming at us from many sources; from off-gassing consumer products, to cars, to fukoshima, to 5g., etc., etc., it seems to be a proliferating cloud.
the key area where research and innovation is truly needed is the art and science of living more harmoniously with the world around us, developing a more sustainable civilization, concepts and practices of permaculture…

Posted by: paul | Feb 22 2019 12:05 utc | 77

The US is right to open up trade war with China. It will slow down the point where China is the dominant world power from 2030 to 2040.
Posted by: Michael Droy | Feb 21, 2019 7:30:11 PM | 32
No thanks Michael Droy! Given the choice between the Chinese as dominant world power and the USA, I’d choose the Chinese immediately. So would most of the world, who according to polls see the USA as the greatest threat to the world.
Fortunately I agree with telescope | Feb 22, 2019 2:33:38 AM | 73 above that your preferred US policy will only hasten China’s growth to dominance and the US’s collapse. I can’t wait. The sooner the better. Long live Eurasian cooperation.

Posted by: BM | Feb 22 2019 12:49 utc | 78

Posted by: barovsky | Feb 22, 2019 5:48:35 AM | 75
Looks suspiciously like clickbait to me …

Posted by: BM | Feb 22 2019 12:52 utc | 79

B has most succinctly addressed the FUD issues of theft of technology and spying by Huawei. I have tried to dispel the drivel about health effects of 5G base stations with many more words (unfortunately). All these “issues” are a product of falling behind China in technology by US and its vassals. If you cannot win by investing in innovation, then try to win by crapping into the brains of your own population (it rhymes). They will be highly susceptible due to continuously falling standards in education and total MSM (main sewerage media) soaking. Thus, anyone who can believe in Russiagate will readily believe in AGW and in highly harmful effects of 5G base stations (when compared with 4G towers, which are ok because they are based on soon to be obsolete Western technology, LOL). The decline of the West is not indicated only by the election of Trump, the most prominent symptoms are the preparedness to believe in any FUD scare that the elite pulling the regime’s strings generates. The Western so called liberals (aka quasi-intellectuals) appear to be much more susceptible to the elite’s FUD crap than the deplorables.
I will just repeat my side point that of my military radar colleagues working with high power transmitters of the similar frequencies as 5G more died from US anti-radar missiles than from tumors. Clearly, the Western public discourse brain carcinogens are much more harmful than the Chinese 5G base stations.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22 2019 12:55 utc | 80

@ Posted by: brian | Feb 21, 2019 4:42:59 PM | 15
This is probably Western soft power-based propaganda. Those waves (be them 2G, 3G, 4G, wifi, radio, etc etc) are of very low energy. It isn’t even close to penetrating the human cell’s wall. No chance of it damaging DNA.
There are some studies which correlate wifi and radio waves to disturbances of human sleep. But, if true, it is already true with 4G, 3G, wifi et al.
@ Posted by: ashley albanese | Feb 21, 2019 4:45:01 PM | 16
At the end of his life (so, we’re talking about a phase where he was studying capitalism specifically, the “old Marx”), there’s a letter where he explicitly states for a reason he’s still not sure, capitalism moved in cycles. If memory doesn’t fail me, this letter was directed to his mathematician (he admittedly was bad at calculus, so he hired one). He then asked if there was enough data to deduce those cycles. His mathematician replied, saying it wasn’t possible yet.
The cycle Marx deduced was “discovered” in the 20th Century, ironically, by a bourgeois economist. This is the Juglar Cycle (“Juglar” is the surname of the guy), and it is the cycle of fixed capital (machines and infrastructure), and it lasts, on average, 10 years.
See this link for a very good summary of cycles in capitalism: <“>https://thenextrecession.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/cycles-in-capitalism.pdf>
@ Posted by: Pft | Feb 21, 2019 5:48:08 PM | 24
Of course it will be used for military purposes. No one ever has claimed it won’t.
@ Posted by: Pft | Feb 21, 2019 7:43:14 PM | 35
Find one article or official source from China where it claims the USA isn’t the world’s superpower anymore. You won’t find none.
But that’s beside the point: USA’s problems are much deeper than a simple competition with China. It is in secular decline. It is competing with a socialist power (that’s the true quality of China). Since 2008, its profit rates are falling. For the first time ever in its history (excluding the two times major wars were fought in its territory – the Revolution and the Civil War), maintaining its empire is costing directly on its general populace’s life quality, etc etc.
@ Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 21, 2019 7:44:57 PM | 37
If the capitalist class could live in 1945-1975 forever, they would. As a rule of thumb, to dominate by consensus is always preferable than to dominate by force (this is true for every historical social system, not just capitalism).
In practice, any class-based society needs both to survive: force mixed with consensus (the more consensus in the mix, the most stable said society is).
However, societies are human creations. They are not closed systems. They are destined to be born, grow to an apex, decline and go extinct. When it goes extinct, two things may happen: society as a whole is destroyed, nothing else growing there; or a revolution happens – a superior system taking place from the inner contradictions of the old system.
Financial capital is what Marx denominated “fictitious capital”. It doesn’t create value. It only gives the illusion of growth through centralization of wealth (which, in capitalism, represents a rise in profit, because profit is actually a difference, not a substance – the reason between surplus value over total capital). Capitalism always have both, but the political preference of the capitalist class as a whole will always be by profit through extracting more value (“real economy”) directly from the working class’ labor. If you get to the point financial capital becomes dominant, then it means the system, for all practical purposes, lost its capacity to “create” new wealth.
Think about that old bear searching for dead salmon at the gates of Alaskan winter in the movie “Grizzly Man”. Yes, adult male bears have the capacity to scavenge for dead salmon at the bottom of the river in the gates of winter, but that’s not what an adult male bear should be doing: it’s desperation, the last grasp.

Posted by: vk | Feb 22 2019 13:01 utc | 81

Then how do you simulate 5G human exposure on animals and whose exposure do you simulate
Posted by: Kiza | Feb 22, 2019 6:13:46 AM | 76
Well, obvious, ain’t it? First you give Zachary’s chickens custom-made 5G headsets that communicate through 5G with remote smartphones. You program the smartphones with chicken-based voice command control so that the chickens can control the smartphones without pecking them to pieces. Then you also have to surgically reduce the volume of the chickens’ voices so that they are forced to rely on the mobiles for communication, and of course you give them unlimited credit for both calls and data. Finally (sneaky one this!) you have to BUG their calls, so that you can monitor the intellectual content of the telephone calls and the effect of the 5G radiation on the chickens’ brains. By the way, don’t forget to monitor their internet access to make sure they don’t get addicted to chicken porn, because that might distort the results of the experiment.

Posted by: BM | Feb 22 2019 13:26 utc | 82

Psycho @ 42
“The two options have different goals and the public one is focused on long run benefit to most and so are expected to do better risk management than the private type that pocket the profit and say the losses are worth it.”
Particularly when they can slough off the losses on the public and just keep the wins for themselves—
eg: too big to fail guys

Posted by: arby | Feb 22 2019 14:57 utc | 83

@ 84
If the capitalist class could live in 1945-1975 forever, they would. As a rule of thumb, to dominate by consensus is always preferable than to dominate by force (this is true for every historical social system, not just capitalism).
You need to read “Invisible hands. The Businessmen’s Crusade against the New Deal. Kim Phillips-Fein.” In it you will see that the financial capitalists were just biding their time and preparing from 1945 to 1975. They loathed the New Deal. But there was another side. The Managerial Class, involved in the actual running of the businesses, had far more freedom during the New Deal to take big investment decisions without having investors and the media on their backs all the time. Bill Smith the great Boeing CEO, could decide to build the Boeing 747 (a hugely risky venture that could have sunk the company) on a fishing trip with the boss of Pan Am. Then you had people like Alfred Sloan at GE who delegated complete authority to divisional managers to make the cars they wanted to make. Then Financial Directors started to become CEOs at places like GE and GM in the late 1950s and begin insane cost-cutting exercises – see the disasters of the Pinto and the Corvette. It was more or less downhill from then on. Boeing, of course, was one of the last to fall, given its hugely succesful image and importance for the MIC.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 22 2019 15:05 utc | 84

Here are a few links regarding 5G and the state of affairs with regards to health impacts of EMR and conflicts of interests.
Martin L. Pall – Response to 2018 ICNIRP Draft Guidelines and Appendices on Limiting
Exposure to Time-Varying Electric, Magnetic and Electromagnetic Fields (100 kHz to 300
GHz) – Washington State University, October 8 th 2018.
https://tinyurl.se/pall
Energy and Commerce Chairman Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ) and Communications and
Technology Subcommittee Chairman Mike Doyle (D-PA) letter to Federal Communications
Commission (FCC) Chairman Ajit Pai. – “Under your leadership, the FCC has failed
repeatedly to act in the public interest and placed the interest of corporations over
consumers”. – February 4 th 2019.
https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/files/
documents/FCC.2019.2.4.%20Letter%20to%20Chairman%20Pai%20re%20116th
%20Congress%20Oversight.CAT_.pdf
FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler on 5G: “We won’t study it, regulate it, have standards for it.”
Youtube. June 20 th 2016.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwgwe01SIMc
Bias in the assessment of Electromagnetic Fields (EMF) – Over 40 NGOs lodge a complaint
to the European Ombudsman over SCENIHR report – Swedish Radiation Protection
Foundation, 2015.
https://www.stralskyddsstiftelsen.se/2015/03/bias-in-the-assessment-of-electromagnetic-
fields-emf/
Dr. Lennart Hardell – World Health Organization, radiofrequency radiation and health – a
hard nut to crack (Review) – International Journal of Oncology, June 21 st 2017. doi:
10.3892/ijo.2017.4046
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5504984/
Judith Richter – Time to turn the tide: WHO’s engagement with non-state actors and the
politics of stakeholder governance and conflicts of interest. – BMJ 2014;348:g3351. May
19 th 2014. https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.g3351
The ‘Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (RNCNIRP)’
warns the WHO for its unbalanced EMR Working group, consisting mainly of present and
past ICNIRP members who do not recognize the biological effects of EMR. March 2017.
https://www.mast-victims.org/resources/docs/RNCNIRP-letter-WHO-2017_03_01.pdf
Leading expert Anders Ahlbom linked to the Telecom Industry. Conflict of interest at the
World Health Organization (WHO) – Mona Nilsson, investigative journalist, Sweden, May
23 rd 2011.
http://www.monanilsson.se/document/AhlbomConflictsIARCMay23.pdf
Repacholi’s RF Review – Microwavenews.org, October 25 th 2011.
https://microwavenews.com/short-takes-archive/repacholis-rf-review
IARC Drops Anders Ahlbom from RF–Cancer Panel, Microvawenews.com, May 22 nd , 2011.
https://microwavenews.com/Ahlbom.html
2011 International Scientific Conference on EMF and Health – List of Participants and
Speakers (and their associations and conflict of interests) – November 16 th and 17 th 2011,
European Commission, Brussels. André Fauteux, La Maison du 21ème Siècle.
https://maisonsaine.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Brussels_2011_EMF_Conference_-
_CONFLICTS_OF_INTEREST.pdf
“Microwaves, Science and Lies” Documentary Reveals a Product Defense Strategy –
smartgridawareness.org, August 30 th 2014
https://smartgridawareness.org/2014/08/30/microwaves-science-and-lies-documentary-
reveals-a-product-defense-strategy/
Lost Research Opportunities – Industry
Microwavenews.org, February 25 th 2014.
https://microwavenews.com/news-center/lost-opportunities
Electromagnetic fields and public health: mobile phones – World Health Organization
(WHO), March 8 th 2014.
https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/electromagnetic-fields-and-public-
health-mobile-phones
Canadian Conflict-of-Interest Follies: Anything Goes Except Non-Disclosure,
Microwavenews.com, April 23 rd 2014. Last updated, September 26 th 2016.
https://microwavenews.com/news-center/rsc-sc6
The Anatomy of a Rumor, Microvawenews.com, December 1 st 2017.
https://microwavenews.com/news-center/anatomy-rumor
Statement from Jeffrey Shuren, M.D., J.D., director of the FDA’s Center for Devices and
Radiological Health on the recent National Toxicology Program draft report on
radiofrequency energy exposure – US Food & Drug Asministration (FDA), February 2 nd
2018.
https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm595144.htm
Jeffrey Shuren, conflicts of interests and the US Food & Drug Agency (FDA) – FDA
SpyGate, New Revelations Challenge The New York Times Investigation of Agency
“Enemies List,” Raise More Questions About the ‘Government’s Most Dysfunctional Agency’
– Jon Entine, Forbes, August 20 th 2012.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2012/08/20/fda-spygate-new-revelations-challenge-
the-new-york-times-investigation-of-agency-enemies-list-raise-more-questions-about-the-
governments-most-dysfunctional-agency/
Jeffrey and Allison Shuren’s conflicts of interests – At FDA, a new goal, then a push for
speedy device reviews – Associated Press, November 28 th 2018.
https://www.apnews.com/9f8ea03a4d324d1ba5585680d280804b
There appears to be a conflict of interest between the WHO and ICNIRP – Vallisoletana
Association of people affected my mobile phone antennas (AVAATE), July 10 th 2015.
http://www.avaate.org/IMG/pdf/escrito_web_icnirp_ingles_final.pdf
SCENIHR members’ history (bias and conflicts of interest)
https://www.stralskyddsstiftelsen.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/
Annex_1_SCENIHR_Experts_2015.pdf
Conflicts of interest at IEEE’s International Committee on Electromagnetic Safety – ICES
(SCC-39) Annual Report: 2014 – 2015 Includes Technical Committee 34 (Product Safety
Relative to the Safe Use of Electromagnetic Energy) and Technical Committee 95 (Safety
Levels with Respect to Human Exposure to Electric, Magnetic and Electromagnetic Fields) –
Submitted by Ron Petersen, Secretary, SCC-3929, November 2015. See pages 19 to 23.
https://betweenrockandhardplace.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/scc39-annual-report-2014-
2015.pdf
IARC Welcomes Industry to RF–Cancer Review, Microvawenews.com, March 23 rd 2011.
https://microwavenews.com/IARC.RF.html

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 15:31 utc | 85

Why is it that the symptoms of high frequency, low energy EM radiation disorders are exactly the same as hysteria and obsessive-compulsive mental issues?
Yes, people who live next to cellular communications towers have sleep issues, but that is more because of the bright aircraft warning lights flashing through their bedroom windows all night long than it is because of microwaves.
Which bring me to an important point. The energy emitted by 5G base stations isn’t going to be all that much more than energy emitted by HID broadcast lamps, and it won’t penetrate a person’s skin much more than that light does. Light is also EM radiation. At high enough intensities light can kill you, and at lower intensities it can cause damage to some parts of your body, but who panics about walking under a streetlight, or taking a stroll on a sunny day?
For some reason many people in the West have become remarkably susceptible to hysteria since the 2016 elections.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 22 2019 15:41 utc | 86

@ William Gruff 87
Neurological and neuropsychiatric effects of EMR:
Marha K. 1966 Biological Effects of High-Frequency Electromagnetic Fields (Translation).
ATD Report 66-92. July 13, 1966 (ATD Work Assignment No. 78, Task 11).
http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/AD0642029
Glaser ZR, PhD. 1971 Naval Medical Research Institute Research Report, June 1971.
Bibliography of Reported Biological Phenomena (“Effects”) and Clinical Manifestations
Attributed to Microwave and Radio-Frequency Radiation. Report No. 2 Revised.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Glaser+naval+medical+microwave+radio-
frequency+1972&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C38
Tolgskaya MS, Gordon ZV. 1973. Pathological Effects of Radio Waves, Translated from
Russian by by Haigh. Consultants Bureau, New York/London, 146 pages.
Bawin SM, Kaczmarek LK, Adey WR. 1975 . Effects of modulated VHF fields on the
central nervous system. Ann NY Acad Sci 247:74-81.
Bise W. 1978 Low power radio-frequency and microwave effects on human
electroencephalogram and behavior. Physiol Chem Phys 10:387-398.
Raines, J. K. 1981. Electromagnetic Field Interactions with the Human Body: Observed
Effects and Theories. Greenbelt, Maryland: National Aeronautics and Space Administration
1981; 116 p.
Frey AH. 1993 Electromagnetic field interactions with biological systems. FASEB J 7:272-
281.
Lai H. 1994 Neurological effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic radiation. In: Advances
in Electromagnetic Fields in Living Systems, Vol. 1, J.C. Lin, Ed., Plenum Press, New York,
pp. 27-88.
Grigoriev IuG. 1996 [Role of modulation in biological effects of electromagnetic radiation].
Radiats Biol Radioecol 36:659-670.
Lai, H 1998 Neurological effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic radiation.
http://www.mapcruzin.com/radiofrequency/henry_lai2.htm.
Valentini E, Curcio G, Moroni F, Ferrara M, De Gennaro L, M. Bertini M. 2007
Neurophysiological Effects of Mobile Phone Electromagnetic Fields on Humans:
A Comprehensive Review. Bioelectromagne+cs 28:415-432.
Hardell, L., Sage, C. 2008. Biological effects from electromagnetic field exposure and
public exposure standards. Biomed. Pharmacother. 62, 104-109.
Makker K, Varghese A, Desai NR, Mouradi R, Agarwal A. 2009 Cell phones: modern man’s
nemesis? Reprod Biomed Online 18:148-157.
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Pathophysiology 16:123-135.
Khurana VG, Hardell L, Everaert J, Bortkiewicz A, Carlberg M, Ahonen M. 2010
Epidemiological evidence for a health risk from mobile phone base stations. Int J Occup
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Levig, B. B., Lai, H. 2010. Biological effects from exposure to electromagnetic radiation
emitted by cell tower base stations and other antenna arrays. Environ. Rev. 18, 369-395.
doi.org/10.1139/A10-018
Carpenter DO. 2013 Human disease resuting from exposure to electromagnetic fields. Rev
Environ Health 2013;28:159-172.
Politański P, Bortkiewicz A, Zmyślony M. 2016 [Effects of radio- and microwaves emiged
by wireless communication devices on the functions of the nervous system selected
elements]. Med Pr 67:411-421.
Hensinger P, Wilke E. 2016. Mobilfunk-Studienergebnisse bestä+gen Risiken
Studienrecherche 2016-4 veröffentlicht. Umwelt Medizin Gesellsha; 29:3/2016.
Pall ML. 2016 Microwave frequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) produce widespread
neuropsychiatric effects including depression. J Chem Neuroanat 75(Pt B):43-51. doi:
10.1016/j.jchemneu.2015.08.001.
Hecht, Karl. 2016 Health Implications of Long-Term Exposures to Electrosmog. Brochure 6
of A Brochure Series of the Competence Initiative for the Protection of Humanity, the
Environment and Democracy.
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6_K_Hecht_web.pdf
Sangün Ö, Dündar B, Çömlekçi S, Büyükgebiz A. 2016 The Effects of Electromagnetic
Field on the Endocrine System in Children and Adolescents. Pediatr Endocrinol Rev
13:531-545.
Belyaev I, Dean A, Eger H, Hubmann G, Jandrisovits R, Kern M, Kundi M, Moshammer H,
Lercher P, Müller K, Oberfeld G, Ohnsorge P, Pelzmann P, Scheingraber C, Thill R. 2016
EUROPAEM EMF Guideline 2016 for the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of EMF-
related health problems and illnesses. Rev Environ Health DOI 10.1515/reveh-2016-0011.
Zhang J, Sumich A, Wang GY. 2017 Acute effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic field
emiged by mobile phone on brain function. Bioelectromagnetics 38:329-338. doi:
10.1002/bem.22052.
Lai H. 2018. A Summary of Recent Literature (2007–2017) on Neurological
Effects of Radio Frequency Radiation. Chapter 8 in Mobile Communications and Public
Health, Marko Markov, Ed., CRC press, pp 185-220.
Pall ML. 2018 Wi-Fi is an important threat to human health. Environ Res 164:404-416.
Wilke I. 2018 Biological and pathological effects of 2.45 GHz on cells, fertility, brain and
behavior. Umwelt Medizin Gesselsha; 2018 Feb 31 (1).

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 15:47 utc | 87

@ William Gruff 87
Would it be possible that you don’t really know what you are talking about?
Michaelson, Thomson Howland, – Biologic effects of microwave exposure – Radiation
Control for Health and Safety Act of 1967, Hearings before the Committee of Commerce,
U.S. Senate, 90 th Congress, Second Session, S.2067. Washington D.C. 1967.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/824242.pdf
Glaser Z. – Bibliography of reported biological phenomena (Effects) and clinical
manifestations attributed to microwave and radio-frequency radiation. – Naval Medical
Research Institute, October 4 th 1971.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/750271.pdf
Glaser Z. – Bibliography of reported biological phenomena (Effects) and clinical
manifestations attributed to microwave and radio-frequency radiation. – Naval Medical
Research Institute, September 27 th 1976.
https://ehtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/Naval-MRI-Glaser-Report-1976.pdf
Biological Effects of Non-ionizing Electromagnetic Radiation – A digest of current
litterature – Franklin Research Center, Volume IV, Number 3, March 1980.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a082367.pdf
Glaser Z. – Cumulated index to the bibliography of reported biological phenomena
(‘effects’) and clinical manifestations attributed to microwave and radio-frequency
radiation: report, supplements (no. 1-9). BEMS newsletter (B-1 through B-464), 1971-
1981.
http://www.cellphonetaskforce.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Zory-Glasers-index.pdf.

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 15:51 utc | 88

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 21, 2019 7:43:30 PM | 36
Gee Kiza your post is so indignant; can’t image someone so indifferent to their health?
FYI, I know a little bit about it.. but I bet you don’t anything calcium channels? Calcium channels are frequency operated, I know, I know, you know so much that you don’t care but when you can no longer hear with your ears and no longer see with your eyes; please then recall, that you knew all you needed to know?
If I were you I would memorize the words of Posted by: Pft | Feb 22, 2019 12:09:44 AM | 63, and 87 and 88 by others. and start studying to learn something about about the molecular biology of Ca channels and ribbon sensing to neuro transmission control in Optic and Ocular nerves. that bit of knowledge could save you sight and allow you to continue to hear.
If you can spare the time to save your heart you might read a link the legislature of the state of Califormia has been trying to figure out how to deal with.. but then if you already know, don’t read it.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170809005832/en/CA-Legislators-Told-Biological-Health-Risks-Pervasive

Posted by: snake | Feb 22 2019 15:56 utc | 89

telescope | Feb 22, 2019 2:33:38 AM | 73
Nail on the head. There is one area in semiconductors where the US is still dominant, the machines that make the wafers carrying the ‘chips’ especially at the leading edge. This they should have been able to maintain well into the future. Now, having rattled the Chinese, its an area they will get into big time. The US will do all it can to slow them but the result is inevitable.
US (as well as others in the West) strategic interest management at a Governmental level over the past 20+ years has been appalling. By concentrating on military dominance they have let the real world slip through their fingers. It continues, by forcing Russia and China closer together they have made it 10 times worse. But then perhaps this is all part of the plan by those in charge.

Posted by: JohninMK | Feb 22 2019 16:14 utc | 90

@ Snake 90
Thank you for raising the level of the discussion. Here is the science you are mentioning.
Adey WR. 1988 Cell membranes: the electromagnetic environment and cancer promotion.
Neurochem Res.13:671-677.
Walleczek, J. 1992. Electromagnetic field effects on cells of the immune system: the role of
calcium signaling. FASEB J. 6: 3177-3185.
Adey, WR. 1993 Biological effects of electromagnetic fields. J Cell Biochem 51:410-416.
Frey AH. 1993 Electromagnetic field interactions with biological systems. FASEB J 7:272-
281.
Funk RHW, Monsees T, Özkucur N. 2009 Electromagnetic effects—Form cell biology to
medicine. Prog Histochem Cytochem 43:177-264.
Yakymenko IL, Sidorik EP, Tsybulin AS. 1999 [Metabolic changes in cells under
electromagnetic radiation of mobile communication systems]. Ukr Biokhim Zh (1999), 2011
Mar-Apr:20-28.
Gye MC, Park CJ. 2012 Effect of electromagnetic field exposure on the reproductive
system. Clin Exp Reprod Med 39:1-9. doi.org/10.5653/cerm.2012.39.1.1
Pall, ML. 2013. Electromagnetic fields act via activation of voltage-gated calcium channels
to produce beneficial or adverse effects. J Cell Mol Med 17:958-965. doi:
10.1111/jcmm.12088.
Pall ML. 2014 Electromagnetic field activation of voltage-gated calcium channels: role in
therapeutic effects. Electromagn Biol Med. 2014 Apr 8. doi:10.3109/15368378.2014.906447.
Pall ML. 2015 How to approach the challenge of minimizing non-thermal health effects of
microwave radiation from electrical devices. International Journal of Innovative Research in
Engineering & Management (IJIREM) ISSN: 2350-0557, Volume-2, Issue -5, September
2015; 71-76.
Pall, M. L. 2015 Scientific evidence contradicts findings and assumptions of Canadian
Safety Panel 6: microwaves act through voltage-gated calcium channel activation to induce
biological impacts at non-thermal levels, supporting a paradigm shift for microwave/lower
frequency electromagnetic field action. Rev. Environ. Health 3, 99-116. doi: 10.1515/reveh-
2015-0001.
Pall ML. 2016 Electromagnetic fields act similarly in plants as in animals: Probable
activation of calcium channels via their voltage sensor. Curr Chem Biol 10: 74-82.
Pall ML. 2016 Microwave frequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) produce widespread
neuropsychiatric effects including depression. J Chem Neuroanat 75(Pt B):43-51. doi:
10.1016/j.jchemneu.2015.08.001.
Batista Napotnik T, Reberšek M, Vernier PT, Mali B, Miklavčič D. 2016 Effects of high
voltage nanosecond electric pulses on eukaryotic cells (in vitro): A systematic review.
Bioelectrochemistry. 2016 Aug;110:1-12. doi: 10.1016/j.bioelechem.2016.02.011.
Asghari A, Khaki AA, Rajabzadeh A, Khaki A. 2016 A review on electromagnetic fields
(EMFs) and the reproductive system. Electron Physician. 2016 Jul 25;8(7):2655-2662. doi:
10.19082/2655.
Thrivikraman G, Boda SK, Basu B. 2018 Unraveling the mechanistic effects of electric field
stimulation towards directing stem cell fate and function: A tissue engineering perspective.
Biomaterials 150:60-86. doi: 10.1016/j.biomaterials.2017.10.003

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 16:16 utc | 91

lili@89
It could be that I don’t know what I am talking about, or perhaps I am simply not prone to hysteria?
I looked at one of your references for giggles:
Glaser Z. – Bibliography of reported biological phenomena (Effects) and clinical
manifestations attributed to microwave and radio-frequency radiation. – Naval Medical
Research Institute, October 4 th 1971.
Looks authoritative.
I like the disclaimer:
“Note: These effects are listed without comment or endorsement since the literature abounds with conflicting reports. In some cases the basis for reporting an “effect” was a single or a non-statistical observation, which may have been drawn from a poorly conceived (and poorly executed) experiment”
I find it quite interesting that someone would choose something like this as part of a raw dump to prove how much they know about the current consensus on the hazards of low energy HF radio waves.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 22 2019 16:24 utc | 92

@lili | Feb 22, 2019 11:16:24 AM | 92
Thank you for the important links. I dashed off my piece above late last night but had intended to provide links similar to some of yours in the morning. Common tactic of those who are not on solid ground is to take on a swaggering godlike pose and fire off snide remarks at those who are.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Feb 22 2019 17:06 utc | 93

China bans Australian coal imports as diplomatic tensions over Huawei intensify
Last month, Australia barred Chinese telecoms giants Huawei Technologies from providing 5G technology for their networks, citing national security concerns.
Australia is the world’s number one exporter of coal, while China remains its biggest trade partner, accounting for nearly 30 percent of Australian sales abroad. Apart from coal, main exports to China include iron ore and gold. rt.com/business Posted by: Harry Law | Feb 21, 2019 4:08:30 PM | 10
(Coals as an Australian export commodity is interesting since it is the University of Australia that has discovered and published how Hydro storage, wind and solar can be used at any one of 2200 locations around the world to provide to the power grid sufficient energy for the entire world. (just pick one site, and the world’s energy is no longer coal, oil, gas or LNG. ) Now I see why few know of the great work done at the University? The coal industry lobby in Australia must be very powerful as certainly the oil and gas industry is around the globe.
Add to the short sightedness of US corporations using monies to buyback stock shares, the whole predatory lending and sky rocketed costs of college in the US has created a penury of techy brains in the necessary fields. Only 1 out of 4 grad students in Tech is a US youngster. The rest are foreigners. US kids are so worried about Student loan debt that they forgo grad school.
Just one more short sighted, predatory element of US culture.
Posted by: Linda Amick | Feb 21, 2019 4:11:31 PM | 11
Linda Amick, thank you for your comment, I think economic Zionism (EZ) can explain the preference to buyback one’s corporate stock over the obvious alternative need to develop a nation’s necessary brain power so that its people can complete with the rest of the world. EZ (not racial or religious at all, instead it attracts greedy persons to the top) is a system of economics that does not allow rest until a complete, secure and absolute monopoly position in secure in whatever economic endeavor its adherents engage.
EZ, does not allow competition, it destroys competition. EZ arises soon after it gains significant control over one or more of the Armed Rule-Making nation States (ARMS) because if successful, it employes the ARMS to help it maintain privately owned Monopoly power: EZ uses the military and intelligence agencies (ARMS agencies) to engage in armed intervention and behind the scene disruption of, threatening competition. EZ uses the law(rule) making power of controlled ARMS to make generate from thin air, monopolies that allow private EZ ownership and control (like copyrights, patents, ). EZ uses the law making, judicial system and police powers to control the governed populations. EZ uses the ARMS contracting apparatus to get government (the taxpayers) to pay for research, development and to keep the EZ going financially during challenging times. But the overall object of EZ is to eliminate even the slightest bit of competition or to acquire control or ownership f that competition. EZ seeks to control all of the natural resources and technology that emerges in the world, if such emergents ..threatens one of their existing technologies or one of its significant markets. Threaten EZ or one of its monopolies or threaten to weaken a monopoly power enjoyed by the EZ and often will appear war, regime change, international intrigue, international terrorism, bankruptcy and blue sky lawsuits that lead to your demise..
Critical to EZ is secrecy of state function and data collection on the governed. EZ appears in places where the governed do not have a voice in the functions, structures, purposes, and decisions of their government (i. e. Britain, France, USA, Saudi Arabia, Israel, India). In the past, the EZ were the people in the ARMS (lacked democratic elements) in such ARMSs the govern don’t count, but in they have decided private ownership with state protection has advantages.
@9
“Rise of financial capital is a sign of despair of capital, a symptom of falling rates of profit.”
No, the dominance of financial capital is what unbridled capitalism always leads to unless checked. Through the creation and control of giant corporations such as GE, US Steel, International Harvester, AT&T from 1900, then a major participation in the FED whan it was created in 1913, J P Morgan (most probably a Rothschild agent) was the single most powerful man in America. Finance capital dominated until the Great Depression, but from the New Deal to the 1960s it was subdued. The smartest kids in America went into industry not Wall Street in that period and we had the 30 golden years, as the French say. But slowly and surely finance capital sought to reassert itself and was finally crowned by Reagan and Thatcher at the end of the 1970s. Since then it has dominated everything. It makes me laugh when people talk about corporations ruling the world. Investment banks rule corporations. Any CEO who is not making the numbers is out on their ass. The Military Industrial complex is also a diversion. The numbers involved are miniscule compared to what is in play in financial markets. The miltary and its weaponry are simply at the service of the finance capital to enforce its will througout the world.
Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 21, 2019 7:44:57 PM | 37
Yes, and many in the financial markets adhere to the principles of EZ. EZ arose out of the 1896 Conference in Basil Switzerland.. where the decision to take the oil from the Arabs was invented.. that decision led to the Invasion of the Ottoman Empire and two world wars.

Posted by: snake | Feb 22 2019 17:28 utc | 94

Interesting how a thread about the geopolitics of trade and technology gets totally sidetracked by the issue of safety of one small component of the overall dynamic under discussion.
stonebird @77–
I found Putin’s reference to Communism rather telling since it’s clear to me at least that the aim of both Russia & China is to maximize the potential of their greatest asset–their Human Capital–and that their aim is also understood and being emulated almost exclusively by ASEAN nations. In the West, there’s no such recognition of the need to promote Human Capital, and indeed an opposite program is in play under the name of Austerity (or Culture Wars within the Outlaw US Empire) that’s actually destroying Human Capital–France and UK are actively waging a hybrid war on their own people, while the EU’s already destroyed Greek and Balkan Human Capital. The thinking seems to be that Human Capital can be replaced by AI/Robotic Capital, which IMO is utterly idiotic and made to service just a few instead of All.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2019 17:36 utc | 95

@ lili
I admire the effort, but the point you bring to the table is moot, because the cause-effect, if it indeed exists, is already present among us with the older 4G, 3G technologies. In other words, 5G would only bring a problem we already had to begin with.
To say 5G brings risk to the human health is redundant at best: we will continue to have them, with or without it.

Posted by: vk | Feb 22 2019 17:37 utc | 96

@ VK 97
EMR is EMR but you are absolutely right, point taken, 5G is actually very different than previous generations. We are now piling up millimeter waves pulsed from phased array antennas on top of 3G, 4G or wi-fi and the rest such as DECT. Thus, the very nature of 5G is much more biologically active than earlier generations.
Here are some examples of literature you could look into.
The following are mostly about pulsed EMF but down the list you will find some references on Millimetre waves. If you are keen to study the topic, I would suggest looking into the Russian science since the 60’s, they have been very prolific. And, as you will find out you do, you can use it to heal or wreak havoc in humans, animals, plants etc.
Osipov YuA, 1965 [Labor hygiene and the effect of radiofrequency electromagnetic fields
on workers]. Leningrad Meditsina Publishing House, 220 pp.
Pollack H, Healer J. 1967 Review of Information on Hazards to Personnel from High-
Frequency Electromagnetic Radiation. Institute for Defense Analyses; Research and
Engineering Support Division. IDA/HQ 67-6211, Series B, May 1967.
Frey AH. 1974 Differential biologic effects of pulsed and continuous electromagnetic fields
and mechanisms of effect. Ann N Y Acad Sci 238: 273-279.
Creighton MO, Larsen LE, Stewart-DeHaan PJ, Jacobi JH, Sanwal M, Baskerville JC,
Bassen HE, Brown DO, Trevithick JR. 1987 In vitro studies of microwave-induced cataract.
II. Comparison of damage observed for continuous wave and pulsed microwaves. Exp Eye
Res 45:357-373.
Grigor’ev IuG. 1996 [Role of modulation in biological effects of electromagnetic radiation].
Radiats Biol Radioecol 36:659-670.
Belyaev I. 2005 Non-thermal biological effects of microwaves: current knowledge, further
perspective and urgent needs. Electromagn Biol Med 24(3):375-403.
Markov MS. 2007 Pulsed electromagnetic field therapy: History, state of the art and future.
The Environmentalist 27:465-475.
Van Boxem K, Huntoon M, Van Zundert J, Patijn J, van Kleef M, Joosten EA. 2014 Pulsed
radiofrequency: a review of the basic science as applied to the pathophysiology of radicular
pain: a call for clinical translation. Reg Anesth Pain Med. 2014 Mar-Apr;39(2):149-59.
Belyaev, I. 2015. Biophysical mechanisms for nonthermal microwave effects. In:
Electromagnetic Fields in Biology and Medicine, Marko S. Markov, ed, CRC Press, New
York, pp 49-67.
Panagopoulos DJ, Johansson O, Carlo GL. 2015 Real versus simulated mobile phone
exposures in experimental studies. BioMed. Res. Int. 2015, ar+cle ID 607053, 8 pages.
Doi:10.1155/2015/607053.
Pall, M. L. 2015 Scientific evidence contradicts findings and assumptions of Canadian
Safety Panel 6: microwaves act through voltage-gated calcium channel activation to induce
biological impacts at non-thermal levels, supporting a paradigm shift for microwave/lower
frequency electromagnetic field action. Rev. Environ. Health 3, 99-116. doi: 10.1515/reveh-
2015-0001.
Batista Napotnik T, Reberšek M, Vernier PT, Mali B, Miklavčič D. 2016 Effects of high
voltage nanosecond electric pulses on eukaryotic cells (in vitro): A systematic review.
Bioelectrochemistry. 2016 Aug;110:1-12. doi: 10.1016/j.bioelechem.2016.02.011.
Paul Ben-Ishai, Dariusz Leszczynski, Devra Davis and Anthony Miller – 5G Technology:
Potential Risks To Human Health – Wireless Radiation and Health – Expert Forum on
Environmental Health Research and Policy Priorities – Israel Institue for Advanced Studies
at Hebrew University, Jerusalem, January 24 th to 27 th 2017.
https://youtu.be/QvPg1AyQ43I
Albanese R, Blaschak J, Medina R, Penn J. – Ultrashort electromagnetic signals:
Biophysical questions, safety issues and medical opportunities. – Aviat Space Environ Med.
1994;65(5 Supp):A116-A120.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a282990.pdf.
Gandhi, O. P., & Riazi, A. (1986). Absorption of millimeter waves by human beings and its
biological implications. IEEE Transactions on Microwave Theory and Techniques, 34(2),
228-235.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1133316
Betzalel, N., Ishai, P.B., and Feldman, Y. – “The Human Skin As A Sub-THz Receiver –
Does 5G Pose a Danger To It or Not?” – Environmental Research 163:208-216 (2018).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935118300331?via%3Dihub
Betzalel, N., Feldman, Y., and Ishai, P.B. – “The Modeling of the Absorbance of Sun-THz
Radiation by Human Skin.” – IEEE Transactions on Terahertz Science and Technology
7(5):521-528 (2017).
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8016593/
Dariusz Leszczynski – The potential risks to human health from 5G – International
Conference on 5G hosted by the Association of Parents of Preschool Children, Reykjavik
February 2017.
https://youtu.be/Zo6Wbi2UYQ0?list=PLT6DbkXhTGoBmSJ3hFcJFavw4JbLw6tnw
Russell, C. L. (2018). 5 G wireless telecommunications expansion: Public health and
environmental implications. Environmental research. doi: 10.1016/j.envres.2018.01.016
Nasim, I. and Kim, S. Georgia – “Human Exposure to RF Fields in 5G Downlink.”-
Southern University (2017). https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.03683.pdf
Ciaula, AD. – “Towards 5G Communication Systems: Are There Health Implications?” –
International Journal of Hygiene and Environmental Health 367-375 (2018).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1438463917308143
Russell, C.L. – “5G Wireless Telecommunications Expansion: Public Health and
Environmental Implications.” – Environmental Research 165:484-495 (2018).
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935118300161

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 18:09 utc | 97

@ Robert Snefjella
“Common tactic of those who are not on solid ground is to take on a swaggering godlike pose and fire off snide remarks at those who are.”
Yup, I can see that with one or two posting here. Useless to even pursue some form of debate. I have just posted enough documents for anyone with a functional brain to note that there is a problem. Too bad B. deleted my post with the 150 or so peer-reviewed literature pertaining to biological effects on plants, animals, insects, microbes and funghi. People like William Gruff and his arrogant comments would be put to sleep once and for all. So much for “hysteria and obsessive-compulsive mental issues”. Giggles indeed. I am always amazed at how some just have to have an opinion even when they are blatantly incompetent.

Posted by: lili | Feb 22 2019 18:19 utc | 98

@karlof1 | Feb 22, 2019 12:36:34 PM | 96 The thread has not been *totally* sidetracked. There are many posts pertaining to the geopolitics of 5G.
b did not mention the serious health concerns that pertain to 5G, which exclusion is pretty well standard for most discussions pertaining to this particular technology; and indeed, the same negligence has been standard for virtually the entire panoply of modern technology, introduced enthusiastically with the precautionary principle being swept aside, and indications of harm overwhelmed by financial and other agendas. Choosing not to go there, re any particular technology, is typically not even on the table. So we end up with massive amounts of genetic damage and chronic mental and physical health problems, as well as the degradation of the biosphere.
@ vk | Feb 22, 2019 12:37:11 PM | 97 What you write ignores the possibility that 5G will accelerate, increase, multiply human health problems, and increase harm to life more generally.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Feb 22 2019 18:20 utc | 99

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Feb 22, 2019 12:06:15 PM | 94

Thank you for the important links. I dashed off my piece above late last night but had intended to provide links similar to some of yours in the morning. Common tactic of those who are not on solid ground is to take on a swaggering godlike pose and fire off snide remarks at those who are.

Saying that EMR is bad for health is like saying that water is bad too because you can drown in it an die. True but irrelevant.
EMR comes in all kinds of wavelengths, from long radio waves to ultra short gamma rays:
Every body above absolute zero emits EMR in infrared wavelengths. It is called heat.
Do we need heat to live? Yes. But is too much heat bad? Of course, you can burn.
Visible light is EMR too. Do we need it? Is it essential for life? Of course. But can very bright light blind you? You bet.
Now, UV, X and gamma EMR are damaging because of their ionization capability. But that is well known, nobody disputes that. That is why we use sunscreen and people operating X ray machines carry counting devices to measure their X ray cumulative exposure.
Now about microwaves. They are all around us in the form of CMBR (cosmic microwave background radiation) Is it dangerous for our health? I do not think so. It has been with us for a while, and we are fine. But, if you stick you head in microwave oven, can it pop your eyes out? Sure, it can cook a soup ad make popcorn pop…
That is why Kiza is right and lili and snake are wrong. Does not matter how many references they list here.
They do not understand that if an EMR of specific wavelength and high amount is dangerous you cannot generalize it to all wavelengths and to all intensities.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 22 2019 18:39 utc | 100

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