Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 16, 2019

The MoA Week In Review - OT 2019-10

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

The U.S. attack against Venezuela triggered riots in Haiti. Haiti received oil and credit from Venezuela under very preferential conditions. The money saved was supposed to go into a special PetroCaribe fund to be spend on social projects in Haiti. When the U.S. enacted sanctions against Venezuela, Haiti stopped paying and the cheap oil flow ended. The fund was looted by local politicians. When the government then supported the U.S. coup attempt against Venezuela the people had enough and took to the streets.

BajoElCieloDeMoscú @VuelvaLaURSS - 17:28 utc - 14 Feb 2019
Translated from Spanish
The Haitian people have been protesting for five days against the dictator who supports Guaidó in Venezuela, Jovenel Moises. In 5 days, the repressive forces of this criminal have murdered 52 Haitians and left 247 wounded. So you can see the streets of Puerto Principe, full of bodies.

The video attached to the above tweet shows five civilians, presumably dead, laying in the road.

---

A former chief of staff Nicolas Maduro, now a professor at Science Po in Paris, warns in an interview that the situation in Venezuela could easily escalate into a civil war.

Q: One of the things that have been said by the opposition very clearly is that there will be new elections. That is part of their plan.

A: And what guarantees that the departure of Maduro doesn't create a civil war, for instance? The reality of Venezuela is that it is a very polarized country. It is totally unrealistic or irresponsible to think or to assume that there are all the guarantees for Venezuela to be in a peaceful situation. In order to be an election, you have to agree on the terms of that election. When will the election be held? Who can be allowed to run for those elections? And that's exactly the problem — saying there will be elections is assuming that the problem is solved before even addressing it.

---

Greg Grandin on sovereignty and Latin America: What’s at Stake in Venezuela?

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---


Other stuff:

- "It's all about the Benjamins baby." That tweet by Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, and the reaction to it, put new focus on the Zionist lobby. M.J. Rosenberg: This Is How AIPAC Really Works - WSJ: Aipac raises more than $100 million a year, which it spends on lobbying politicians

- A longread by Matthew Hoh, who resigned over Obama's 2009 surge in Afghanistan: Time for Peace in Afghanistan and an End to the Lies

- A Chinese anime video series about the life and work of Karl Marx: The Leader (with subtitles in 7(!) languages)

Use as open thread ...

Posted by b on February 16, 2019 at 01:04 PM | Permalink

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Canada's mainstream media is carefully avoiding any correlation between Venezuela's current issues and the unrest in Haiti. The brief mentions of the looted Petro fund and the sketchy electoral process in Haiti only underline the fact that the Canadian government generally tolerates corruption and illegitimacy in the region, and that the bullseye Canada's foreign affairs office has placed on Venezuela is both selective and politically motivated. The media won't say that, but the conclusion is obvious.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 16, 2019 3:06:49 PM | 2

Speaking of Marx:

Karl Marx's London memorial vandalised for second time

What is interesting is the incription which states the USSR "killed" 66 million people. 30 million is the highest estimate from the killed during the so-called "forced collectivization" after the NEP was over and is an insane and anti-scientific extrapolation, based on two sensi taken in 1913 (if memory doesn't fail me, the last Tsarist-era sensus) and another in the end of the 20s. Another 26 million died during the WWII -- so the vandal apparently put those deaths on the bill of the Bolsheviks too (maybe, in his vision, Stalin should've simply capitulated... to an enemy who had already promised to exterminate all the Slavs to begin with). That's 56 million. Another 10 million must be the one who allegedly died during the Revolution/Civil War itself.

Now, this is good to teach a good lesson for the people who read this blog: how do "historians" come to the number of deaths of some conflict?

There are essentially two trustworthy methods:

1) official sources: not that they are precise or trustworthy themselves, but we have to accept the fact that, in a conflict which envolves lots of people, the State is usually the only source with the resources to come to a good estimate;

2) huge swings in sensi -- one before, one right after a conflict. This is only valid when there is a war and there's a clear precipice between them.

How can we distinguish between an extermination and simply a tragedy? Again, two main methods:

a) mass graves. In this case, the ball is in the archaeologists' court. Usually, for modern conflicts, they are found through a written source hint.

b) written sources that confirm there was some kind of State-sanctioned extermination policy.

--

We can easily define the Third Reich's policies as extermination, because you have the official policy and you have the mass graves. Nobody contest that.

But how about the Russian and Chinese Revolutions? After all, the liberals and the far-right love to state Mao Tse-tung is the greatest dictator of all time because he "killed 55 million people". Is that really the case?

Well, the 30 million figure by the Polish "historian" is very easy to debunk: he took Stalin's first sensus and did a simple subtraction in relation to the last tsarist sensus, minus the expected demographic rate. He concluded that 30 million people who should have been born didn't, so he "concluded" Stalin killed them. This is insane. The whole thing is even more absurd because the Soviet population grew a lot during the period, and that the lower expected birth rate came from Stalin's government itself, so it could have been easily the case of sub-par demographers. Birth rates can fall for many reasons -- doesn't mean the government is killing them. By the same logic, you could posit, e.g., any government that teaches sex education in the schools is commiting mass murder.

Besides, cyclical mass deaths by hunger, caused by cyclical bad weather, are endemic to Russia/USSR. Only 15% of the Soviet territory is usable for agriculture (most of it in the Ukrainian/South Caucasus region -- hence the "holodomor" myth). In his novel "Dead Souls" (written long before the Bolsheviks even dreamt taking power, let alone do a revolution), Gogol does a humorous critic to the tsarist government, but, deep down, it is all about one thing: dead peasants, hunger and cold. This was always the normal in the Russian Empire. That a random Welsh "journalist", who didn't know nothing about the peculiarities of the Soviet territory, went to Ukraine SSR, saw the deaths of the peasants during one of those cyclical colds, and called it a Stalinist extermination camp doesn't make it true.

The WWII's 26 million dead I don't even have to say anything: Hitler published a panphlet during the 30s, stating he would kill all Slav men and enslave the rest (in essence, killing them). He wanted to exterminate all the Slavs. The USSR had 190 million people in 1941, so, taking the situation into context, they actually saved 164 million.

The 10 million who must have died during the Revolution, all I say is this: the takeover of the Winter Palace (25/26 October 1917, Julian) only killed 7 people. That was the Revolution itself. What killed the millions was the counter-revolution (Civil War), financed by the then colonialist superpowers (UK, France and USA). That was the first modern style regime change/proxy war in history. Hadn't those imperialist powers illegally intervened, seven people (plus some hundreds which surely would've died in street skirmishes as protest) would've been all.

The Mao numbers are even more insane. Anti-communist detractors use the sensus from before the "Great Leap" and the first from after. By "expected deaths", they simply come to the conclusion he killed 55 million people ("excess deaths"). "Expected death" is the number of deaths a State expects to happen in a given year based on life expectancy. So, all this data showed was that there was, indeed, a drop in life quality during the "Great Leap" in relation to the 50s: people who should've been dying at 65 were dying at 60 etc. etc. etc.

The problem with this estimate are: 1) this drop was a result of a radical reform attempt. Mao didn't pass an edict stating "I want to murder 55 million people"; 2) the number of deaths spiked... in relation to the peaceful period of 1950-58. They were still below the imperial China time (1940 back) and 3) by that methodology, the Brazilian government has just killed 29 million people with the new pension system reform, because life expectancy will drop with it.

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 3:47:55 PM | 4

vk 4
Best analyses gives approx. 850,000 executed between 1929 and 1950 for direct political reasons - Moscow monuement unveiled in 2016 states 740,000 executed- numbers gulagged for political purposes across that period number roughly 1.3 million . Very tragic but not the genocidal millions trumpeted by the anti- Bolshevik.

Posted by: ashley albanese | Feb 16, 2019 4:09:29 PM | 5

oops ! sorry - that should read 850,000 between 1921 and 1950 . Three decades not two !

Posted by: ashley albanese | Feb 16, 2019 4:13:27 PM | 6

VK @ 4:

The question is who would attack Karl Marx's memorial at this time?

I rather suspect it is someone encouraged by the current anti-Russian climate in the UK in the wake of the Skripal poisoning incident and the hysteria that followed. The hysteria has now spread to Bulgaria with a renewed investigation into a 2015 poisoning of an arms dealer now claimed to be linked to the Skripal poisoning. Bellingcrap is now also claiming a third person went to London at the same time that Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov went there.

Whether that person who daubed the red paint on the memorial is also the person who took an axe to Marx's headstone or if another person was involved must also be considered.

For some reason I can't see the London Metropolitan Police or the UK government taking much interest in saving Karl Marx's memorial if the attacks continue. And I am sure they will continue.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 16, 2019 4:28:09 PM | 7

b - thank you for all your work here!

@2 jayc.. fully concur.. i was on cbc reading about the canuck missionaries trying to get out of haiti..there is no context given for why any of this is happening in haiti in the story... context is everything..

Posted by: james | Feb 16, 2019 4:47:09 PM | 8

@7 " Whether that person who daubed the red paint on the memorial is also the person who took an axe to Marx's headstone or if another person was involved must also be considered."

Could be an anti-Semite. That would change the equation.

Posted by: dh | Feb 16, 2019 5:16:23 PM | 9

regarding vk #4

This poster has been around for a number of years, and from what I've seen he/she appears to be some kind of marxist or socialist. Sad to say, believing in those creeds ought not mean all the horrors committed by the Soviets and Chinese Communists must be denied. The Spanish Inquisition really did happen. The artificial famine in the Ukraine really did happen. The much larger one in the Great Leap forward really did happen. Stamping an event as "Christian" or "Socialist" or Marxist" doesn't - in reality - activate a giant eraser to make all the crimes just disappear.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 16, 2019 6:08:15 PM | 10

@ Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 16, 2019 6:08:15 PM | 10

Doesn't matter who I am. The number given by Western "historians" are absurd, and wouldn't even pass the undergraduate level of scientific rigeur.

You can posit, ex post facto, that policy x, taken in historical moment y, was a huge mistake, and cost, directly and indirectly, many lives. That's interpretation.

But, the moment you put numbers in it, it's fair game: you're exposed to full rebutal.

The largest number of dead given by the forced collectivization period is 30 million (by a single Polish historian who I won't name, google yourself). The number is so insane that even the real Western historians (mainly, Canadians and Americans) don't consider it; they usually "estimate" around 10-15 million (depending on the mood of the "historian" -- and in how much books he wants to sell). Even those numbers are insane, and are very crude, unscientific estimates.

What we have for sure -- the Soviet archives are now open -- is that 2.9 million people died with the blessing of the State (these are the people on their own side, not considering the enemy). It is a lot of people -- but it's not 30 million (neither 15-10 million, for that matter).

The USSR had circa 190 million people around that time. For a country of 190 million to kill 30 million of its own people in a non-civil war scenario... that's very unplausible. There's a physical limit even to the most delirious and powerful dictator. For a country to, on purely political terms, exterminate nearly one sixth of its own people, is basically euthanasia -- it would be an economic swing that would throw that country back to the stone age. And we know that the USSR not only did not go back to the stone age, but it arose to superpower status after WWII, achieved military parity with the USA in the late 60s and made many technological breakthroughs. Seeing how well the USSR came out -- from a second rate power in the beggining of the 20th Century, with many feudal characteristics, to a legitimate world superpower, which carved up the world with the USA -- well, you'll have to agree with me (whatever the ideologies involved) that it certainly didn't commit euthanasia. It simply doesn't add up.

--//--

As for the Chinese case, there's the problem of scale: China has a much bigger population than any single country in the West. If you compare the numbers of solidiers and killed in wars in China with Western analogous at least since the Middle Ages, you'll see that in China the scale is at least ten times bigger. So, even thos 55 million "excess deaths" aren't unreal for Chinese standards since the 19th Century.

Either way, Mao Tse-tung didn't ordered a State-sanctioned murder of 55 million people, the fact on the field (what the historical evidence shows us) is this: there was a sudden fall in life quality during the "Giant Leap Forward". Yes, Mao screwed up -- even the CCP admits this -- and that is so true he cancelled it. But that wasn't the holocaust: in the holocaust, there was State-sanctioned mass extermination; infrastructure was built specially to exterminate people. Those exterminated people were selected. And we have the mass graves and the living witinesses to tell the story. To call Mao a genocidal is historically incoherent.

--//--

To sum it up: the empirical evidence simply don't corroborate with the Totalitarian hypothesis. If we adopt the same methodology we adopt for the USSR and the PRC to the rest of the world, then we'll have to come to the conclusion mass exterminations are the rule and is happening now.

P.S.: for the people here who don't know what the Totalitarian hypothesis is, it is a "theory" that states communism and nazism are essentially the same system, which, ultimately, depend on: 1) slavery (Solzhenytsin is used a lot by Westerners who want to claim the USSR was a slave society) and 2) on an all-emcompassing narrative that explains everything (a "total" narrative; hence the name of the term "totalitarianism"). According to Hannah Arendt (famous Cold Warrior and CIA collaborator), the "totalitarian" narrative of the USSR was that class struggle (!!); while nazism's was the race struggle. Yes, people, that was the level of the madness and propaganda of the Cold War.

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 6:34:55 PM | 11

@Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 6:34:55 PM | 11

Interesting, agree, I think you are right.

BTW, and since you are here, what do you think is the purpose of so many "alt-media" pushing the narrative of the "totalitarian hypothesis" both at their editorial line and comments sections?

Do you agree with me on that most "alt-media" are CIA managed?

Do not you think this wave has come in the midst of the fading capitalism right in its final rattle and the consequent expected rising of leftist ideas?

Posted by: Sasha | Feb 16, 2019 6:52:45 PM | 12

Is Tulsi Gabbard for Real? America Is Ready for a Genuine Peace Candidate

Full article:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51118.htm

Posted by: ben | Feb 16, 2019 8:24:43 PM | 13

@ Posted by: dh | Feb 16, 2019 5:16:23 PM | 9

The vandal may or may be not anti-semite.

What is almost certain is that he/she is far-right. We can attest that by the "number of kills" in the grafitti, which presupposes the already mentioned 30 million dead figure. Outside those very anti-communist countries from East Europe (Poland, the Baltics, Ukraine etc.), very few use this figure in the West. They (i.e. the "establishment") usually use the still unreal, but much less inflated 10-15 million figure. Only the far-right pays attention to these fringe details in the West.

Besides, it is almost certain the vandal is not crazy (or stupidly crazy). We can posit that by the date: 1917-1953. 1917 is consensus, since it is the year of the Revolution. But the vandal chose 1953 -- the year of Stalin's death -- rather than the more mundane 1991 (the year the average Joe in the West would use). We can separate the USSR "presidents" into two groups: the "revolutionaries" (Lenin and Stalin -- of which only Lenin was really revolutionary) and the post-revolutionaries (Krushchev onwards). The fact that the vandal "stopped" at Stalin clearly signals he's attacking Socialism, not the USSR per se.

Also, the narrative that paints Marx an ideologue of genocide is a common motif of the far-right (and the ultraliberals, who are considered boderline far-right) propaganda -- not only in the First World, but also in Latin America or even, dare I say, in Asia.

However, the vandal is not that erudite either: he could've inflated the "number" even more if he included the infamous "55 million" of Mao. Whoever this vandal is, he/she is certainly Eurocentric/Atlanticist; that or he/she simply knows nothing about Chinese history (which would actually corroborate to the "Eurocentric" theory). Another interpretation is that the vandal only computed the "deaths" of the Russian Revolution because it amounted to 66 million: 66 is, by gestalt, very close to 666 -- the number of the Beast in Christian tradition. The far-right is very Christian, and do not lose the opportunity to evoke Christian symbology to try to solidify its own people at the same time by giving them the message they are the Christian side and by labelling the enemy as anti-Christian (the usage of Satanism is a very good illustration of this, as we've seen in the "Pizzagate" scandal and, frequently, in anti-abortion, anti-LGBT campaigns).

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 8:35:41 PM | 14

@14 vk... thanks for your numerous posts at moa..

1917-1953-1989.. they are separated by 36 years each and define the approx time of a saturn-neptune conjunction.. their is a close association of this conjunction to russia.. andre barbault, a great french astrologer predicted an important change in russia way in advance of it back in the 70's or 80's. http://cura.free.fr/quinq/02barbo.html

Posted by: james | Feb 16, 2019 8:47:50 PM | 15

@ Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 16, 2019 6:08:15 10
There seems to be a correlation between general ignorance of Chinese history prior to 1949 and reference to the Great Chinese Famine 1959-61 as a criminal act of Mao Tse Tung. A chart listing recorded famines in China may be found on Wikipedia for the interested. China has suffered repeated and extensive famines over the last 2000 years, almost continuously throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries spanning the colonial period to the Sino-Japanese War. It is worth noting that China has not suffered a single famine since 1961 and many Chinese give credit to Mao for that.

Posted by: TDeL | Feb 16, 2019 8:50:01 PM | 16

36 = 6x6

Posted by: james | Feb 16, 2019 8:50:40 PM | 17

Interesting discussion on FSU and China. Lot of different numbers of course. Deaths can be direct such as execution or indirect such as by disease and starvation brought about by policies. Reduced life expectancy and lower fertility are accounted in some numbers. Like the numbers for the holocaust I dont know we will ever know the extent of the damage done. People chose the numbers they believe, so many choices.

The Bolshevik revolution and subsequent development of Stalins /Soviet Industry and Hitlers rise to power and rebuilding of Germany , and Maos victory over the Nationalists and Chinas economic development post-Mao , were all made possible by transfers of capital and technology from Western elites. This is not admitted.

I consider the Soviet Union, Communist China and Nazi Germany to have been testing grounds of the Global elite in search of authoritarian system to implement globally, and also as a means to exploit for the purpose of changing their own systems via competition and war from Democracy with a capitalist/socialist mix to benefit all to its current state (insert label here).

Chinas recent transformation from Communism to Technocratic Fascism , while calling themselves Socialists, seems to suggest the elite have found something they like. Fascism was not defeated but just resurrected itself under other names.

The main difference between Communism and Fascism is in who owns what. Private or state? China likes you to believe their State Owned Enterprises are owned and controlled by the state. Thats not the case. Its the Party which is made up of 6% of the population by invitation only. Much like the 1% of the West which own most of the wealth and control government. Unlike under Communist China , today Chinas party members can have personal wealth, and so wealth inequality is as great as in the neoliberal West

The EU and US mask their Fascism behind the illusion of Democratic Capitalism. Like China a small group controls politics and wealth. The Surveillance and police state exist as well, just more hidden than in China.

Indeed its a different Fascism from the Nazis version. A friendlier Technocratic version with modern tools and more sophisticated propaganda, wearing slippers instead of a boot. Eugenics hidden behind technology, health and environmental costumes. Wars fought in different smaller ways. Thats Evolution for you.

Todays Russia is seems to be a fusion of China and the West. Never having lived in Russia I am faced with picking and choosing from the propaganda of both sides. The history is not yet written, and perhaps never will be, and not just Russia’s history.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 16, 2019 9:04:03 PM | 18

The link below is from Xinhuanet about Turkey continuing to play both/evolving sides

Turkey to press on with Russian S-400 missile deal: Erdogan

The take away quote
"
Speaking to reporters on the flight back from the Russian resort of Sochi, where a trilateral summit on Syria was held, Erdogan said that Ankara would press on with the S-400 purchases.

"We made the S-400 deal with Russia, so it's out of the question for us to turn back," Erdogan said, according to broadcaster CNN Turk.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 9:06:47 PM | 19

@ Posted by: Sasha | Feb 16, 2019 6:52:45 PM | 12

Totalitarianism is still a very popular theory in the West (specially with countries directly involved in both WWs, such as the UK) for a very simple reason: they have to create a narrative where WWI as a "natural" event -- a tragedy, but inevitable -- while the WWII is an aberration, child of two mad men (i.e. Hitler and Stalin). They have to do that, otherwise: did our sons died in vain? Was the Cold War unecessary?

The totalitarian narrative as historical is particularly popular in the UK, and not by luck: they were the world superpower before 1914, and they know they caused the WWI (because they wanted to stop the rise of Germany, which was already the second industrial power by 1900, behind the USA; UK was already the third, but came first overall if you count the financial sector). Well, the Empire was a good thing for humanity, so WWI must've been inevitable, so say the British.

But WWII bring an end to the Empire. It should've not happened. That was not the natural course of things. The world woke up from WWII divided not only between two countries not named UK, but one of them (the USSR) was actually not even capitalist! Certainly an absurdity to the British mind.

Hence the narrative many British will tell you: Lenin was a crazy guy who lived in an ivory tower and killed peasants and orthodox priests (actually, that part was true, but it was for good reasons) and created a bogus system based on a philosopher (Marx) who wanted a system based on slavery. On the other side, a crazy Austrian (Hitler) created a similar system through a different route -- never mind that the Third Reich, if you take out the bizarre concentration camps, was a perfectly normal liberal, capitalist economy; it was never centralized; Hitler never governed over the German industrialists: there are ample documentation showing he negotiated with them as equals.

So, long story short, that's why many Western Europeans (specially the British) still use the totalitarian hypothesis historically. They have to justify the dead of 1914-1918; they also have to spread the underlying message that everything that isn't capitalism is unnatural (that's why we don't call the Industrial Revolutions genocide; that's why the British, until now, refuse to call the Bengal Famine a genocide, etc. etc.).

--//--

About the "alt-right" thing. One thing is certain: they are awash with money. My hint is that it is money from the CIA, but mainly from the American capitalist class, who, since at least Goldwater, has caught a taste for libertarianism.

Jane Meyer degenerated to a mere Russophobe after 2017, but her June 2016 book "Dark Money" is legit. I recommend reading it. Note that, albeit the book is about the GOP, she states the Democrats arrived late, but soon caught up with the same tactics.

In my opinion, the alt-right is a mirror move over the new left movement that was born after 1968. It was custom made to prey upon this post-modern left that became hegemonic in the First World countries. Their main thesis, however, was best summarized in a far-right Brazilian guy, who published in 2002 a book called "The Silent Revolution" (in Portuguese). In it, he states the post-modern left is a socialist underground operation based on the Gramsci model of revolution in a Western State, aimed at doing a socialist revolution slowly, in a three-phase process -- the post-modern left (LGBT, women rights etc.) being the second phase (the phase where culture of the people change, eroding the concept of family, thus eroding the atom of private property). That's why the far-right considers those "minority" political movements unadultered socialism: they consider the hyphotesis of capitalism dying of "old age" or by a thousand cuts.

The guy who wrote that book was a high-ranking military officer. The capitalist classes in the Third World know they are more vulnerable than their counterparts in the First World (where the people is happier), so it isn't a surprise that those more creative insights of the problem are born there.

About the CIA/alt-right: there's at least one documented case of the CIA trying to do a social engineering operation in the USA during the Cold War. This was the rehabilitation of Christianism in detriment to the then tendence of secularization of the USA. It begun I think in the 60s or 70s. I don't know how successful it was. One thing is certain: Reagan had an evangelical priest as his "spiritual counselor" -- pastor Graham -- who was very powerful. By the time of George W. Bush, Southern Baptist Church received funds to the billions, marking the apex of interference of the Church in the State. By the time of Obama, the POTUS was already a de facto Protestant Pope, since not even the Democrats dared to state they were not Christians (i.e. Protestants).

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 9:13:53 PM | 20

T-Del @16

No famine since 1961. Well, Global Warming, MFN and peacetime helped with that. The period between 1911-1949 were not peaceful years , between civil wars and the Japanese aggression and WWII. Indeed much of the 19th century was full of confict as well due to foreign aggression. Before the 19th century there was the Little Ice Age which probably did not help crops.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 16, 2019 9:20:05 PM | 21

Pft @ 18 said;"The EU and US mask their Fascism behind the illusion of Democratic Capitalism. Like China a small group controls politics and wealth. The Surveillance and police state exist as well, just more hidden than in China."

That's a truth no amount of semantics will change, and communism worked the same way. A small group controls politics and wealth.

Mixed economies, with proper controls, have had better results that direct needed capital to all segments of society. As always, IMO..

Posted by: ben | Feb 16, 2019 9:26:31 PM | 22

@ ben who wrote
"
Mixed economies, with proper controls, have had better results that direct needed capital to all segments of society. As always, IMO..
"
I agree totally and wonder why we can't have adult conversations about which things/services should be socialistic versus well regulated "capitalism".

Instead we get the destructive dynamics we have now because one can't have an intelligent discussion about the subject without the cancer of global private finance coming into the picture.....so we get ongoing proxy BS to keep the narrative plates spinning so we never talk about social structure/contract.

ARGH!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 10:14:04 PM | 23

@16 TDel

I appreciate your effort to educate people on China. It is a hard task.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 16, 2019 10:17:37 PM | 24

Unlike the issues of Vaccine Refusual and Climate Change Denial, rejecting the existence of Communist atrocities isn't really a critical issue with me. I did make a quick search to see if anything useful was available on the interent - and found this:

Catastrophe and Contention in Rural China: Mao's Great Leap Forward Famine and the Origins of Righteous Resistance in Da Fo Village

The Mao Wiki has some information I hadn't known -

There was also an assumption that the flow of individual reports of starvation that had been reaching the West, primarily through Hong Kong and Taiwan, must have been localised or exaggerated as China was continuing to claim record harvests and was a net exporter of grain through the period.

Limited numbers of foreign observers visiting a few "show villages" plus reports of record crops plus verifiable grain exports meant the famine stories were quickly dismissed as propaganda. Only they weren't.

By 1960 Mao was 67 years old, and had played the role of Infallible God Emperor for far too long. The wiki says what I've read elsewhere - horrified Chinese leaders finally managed to neuter Mao's power while letting him keep his figurehead status.

The Brits starved millions in 1848 Ireland while exporting food from the island. Nobody disputes that. The Nazis killed a million Russians in Leningrad with their blockade. I've yet to see that disputed. Male Clinton killed hundreds of thousands in Iraq. But Good Commies just don't do such things.

Yeah, right.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 16, 2019 10:23:36 PM | 25

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 8:35:41 PM | 14


What is almost certain is that he/she is far-right. We can attest that by the "number of kills" in the grafitti, which presupposes the already mentioned 30 million dead figure. Outside those very anti-communist countries from East Europe (Poland, the Baltics, Ukraine etc.), very few use this figure in the West.

Well one of them is quite influential nowadays. Jordan Peterson is peddling these figures in his Youtube videos.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 16, 2019 10:36:38 PM | 26

As I scan the web for information about the world turning I am seeing reports about this weekend yellow vest protests in France but didn't like any of what I read.

I would appreciate reading reports from our French MoA barflies about the evolving yellow vest movement in France that we don't get from the MSM that I scan....please and thank you

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 10:39:17 PM | 27

My apologies if this has already been posted.

NPR misleads public in report on AIPAC vs Ilhan Omar

A recent NPR report, “Unpacking What The American Israel Public Affairs Committee Does,” misleads listeners on several points. Ilhan Omar (D-MN)

The report is in response to freshman Democratic Congress member Ilhan Omar’s tweet that AIPAC is the cause of U.S. politicians’ support for Israel over U.S. needs and principles. Omar has come under numerous attacks ever since.

NPR’s report, broadcast Wednesday, substantially downplays the power of AIPAC. In doing so, it suggests that Omar’s comments were “antisemitic,” while failing to interview anyone with different views.

I've heard this same sort of thing on the car radio in the past year. There would be an NPR story about Syria with one or two people being interviewed. Never was there anything about Creating Chaos For Holy Israel. Just evil Assad, sometimes with a minor spicing of evil Russians.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 16, 2019 10:47:39 PM | 28

@ Zachary Smith with their awakening about NPR

The old joke at MoA is that you just take the first character off of N(PR) and P(BS) to get the true purpose of these organizations

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 10:53:22 PM | 29

The subject of "sheep-dogs" since Bernie Sandman by the independent media has been a subject that must be continuously interrogated.

I notice that Jordan Peterson has been brought up. Not up to speed with the so-called alt-right outlets, I have understood Jordan P. as an ideological leader of the marginalized Euro-Whiteman who will talk about just about everything pertaining to globalism, whether the rising tide of dialogue pertaining to unfettered immigration or identity politics which is the propaganda and youth-outreach program of the global elites.

Some of what he talks about is immensely admirable, especially as it pertains to manliness in an increasingly neutered commons infested with post-feminist claptrap. But one should be on their guard because as we know about sheepdogs.

Take the youtube guy Paul Joseph Watson. I have watched his videos for a couple years now as he has honed his technique and editting. Most of what he attacks is again unfettered immigration and the role of emasculism in a globalized world. Even The Saker hosts and links his videos all the time. But the hair on my neck stood up when he referenced those under attack in conservative media including guys like arch-zionist Dennis Praeger, who is jumpstarting his own conservative-media empire by employing a range of these up and comers including Candace Owens who has just copied the style and delivery of Paul Joseph Watson but is black and female and so...points!

I listen to talk radio at work because I am laborer and am bored and because I need to know how the enemy thinks. And let me tell you the zio-rethugz out there are getting really refined. As I am discovering with my continual erosion of trust with the DJT-phenom, there are bait-and-switches strew about and trap doors placed by spiders looking for those not on their guard.

These guys will rail against globalism, but, in the end, like DJT, there is just enough morsels swept off the table with the elbow to satisfy without the full meal being provided.

No wall. Just two more years of court challenges. No gutting of NAFTA. Just trimming the edges. No full pull-back from the MENA. Just consolidation and ongoing presence and threats. No Brexit. Just another vote in the pipe which will doom it entirely.

Meanwhile, the global experiment continues and Israel benefits.

...

But if there is one thing the DJT has let out of the box is the terminology that is needed to grasp and tackle the problem.

Globalism. Sovereignty. Endless wars.

It took Eisenhower until the end of his presidency to warn about the MIC in his farewell address.

But it was DJT's Inaugural address that was deeply meaningful to me and probably his finest hour. What a flash in the pan. SAD!

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 16, 2019 11:17:14 PM | 30

While I don't partake of either NPR or PBS I do stream Jazz and Blues from a socialist radio station in Washington state called KNKX that provides NPR stuff.

It is an interesting US socialism story that folks might learn from so let me summarize it

In the late 60's in the US there was an effort of have colleges provide learning opportunities by having public oriented radio stations. One of these college radio stations formed in 1966 at Pacific Lutheran University (in south Tacoma where I went to school for a bit) was KPLU.

Long story short, in 2016 PLU was in discussions with the University of Washington about selling the station and totally changing the focus. The negotiations were discovered and a public effort undertaken to raise over 7 million dollars in a few months to turn KPLU into a public funded radio station....and they succeeded.

I am currently listening to the 6 hour blues program they run Saturday and Sunday evenings and otherwise stream their JAZZ24 program

I support socialism in information outlets like this and believe we should have more of them....thanks for reading

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 11:28:58 PM | 31

I hadn't seen this empire failing detail reported about the Pence speech at the Munich Security Conference

Mike Pence ‘visibly shook’ as nobody claps at his applause lines during disastrous European trip

The take away quote
"
Speaking to the Munich Security Conference in Germany, Pence told the audience he brought greetings from Trump.

Not a single person clapped.
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16, 2019 11:44:12 PM | 32

For those who may wish to read some trustworthy facts and persepctives on China, its famines and the work of Mao, I would offer the following links.

Daring to go beyond Western propaganda on the Great Leap Forward’s famine - Ramin Mazaheri

Between 108 BC and 1911 AD there were no fewer than 1,828 recorded famines in China, or nearly one each year. Since 1962 there should have been in China – if their historical average remained unchanged – 50 serious famines. Instead there have been zero.

When one discusses “China” and “famine” – how often do you hear this totally valid point of view?

I wonder… given 50+ years of success, how much longer can the West wave this bloody shirt? Will there still be a thriving Great Leap famine intellectual cottage industry in 50 years? 100 years? 200 years…?

I've read from Jeff Brown that China officially and popularly refer to Mao's leadership as "70% Good, 30% Bad". I may have the terminology wrong but the percentage is correct. As I understand, the Chinese people today revere Mao's memory and his achievements, especially those who can relate to what China was under the imperialist horror that she struggled to throw off, and finally managed in 1949 under the generalship of Mao.

No one regarding China today can possibly have an accurate picture of the society without understanding the imperialist degradation that existed prior to the Communist victory. Just as we look at Russia's memory of the Great Patriotic War and gain deeper insight into the Russian culture, so we must understand the total, absolute hell that Mao inherited, and the absolutely amazing rehabilitation of China that he accomplished.

Although the Chinese grant Mao a score of 30% not perfect, Godfree Roberts grants him "100% Good" in this article:

Mao Reconsidered - One Hundred Percent Good

Colleagues, rivals, academics and propagandists East and West have written much nonsense about Mao Zedong yet, when we correct for bias and discard patent falsehoods it becomes clear that, apart from the bloodshed that accompanies wars and revolutions, it’s doubtful that Mao killed anyone and indubitable that he gave life to billions. Indeed, no-one has done so much good for so many–and so little harm; no-one comes close.
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, all the kings of Europe, Napoleon, Bismarck, Lenin–no predecessor can equal Mao Tse-tung’s scope of accomplishment, for no other country was ever so ancient and so big as China. Indeed Mao’s achievement is almost beyond our comprehension. – John King Fairbank, The United States and China.

It's worth reading Part 2 of Roberts's article for a very sane review of the propagandized and falsely recounted famine of the Great Leap Forward.

~~

It was only through directed effort that I came to learn more about China; the truth doesn't fall off trees on this topic - but it is readily available. The propaganda of the west is not just thick but it's everywhere. Not only are the lies utterly pervasive throughout western culture, but the racism of the "heathen Chinee" is something I absorbed from childhood and only recently began to root out of myself. This is why I say that the study of China for most westerners will also be a study of internal bias and prejudgment, and maybe even a trace of racism.

For myself, I felt ashamed to have been so ignorant.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 17, 2019 1:33:34 AM | 33

In regards to Mao's Famine, fine, ignore western historians entirely. Yang Jisheng, former long-time CCP member, who wrote the definitive account of it in Tombstone (here's the part where detractors scoff and say he's a western agent or somesuch. Im going to guess no one here has actually read his book) gives a figure of 36 million Chinese who died of starvation between 1958 and 1962.

Now you can try and handwave this and say 'ah well, devastating famines aren't uncommon in China'. Which is true. But at absolute minimum Mao and the Party are culpable for not only not responding to the crisis for literal years, but in fact making it worse by increasing food and grain exports (they peaked in 1959). They're at least as guilty as Churchill and the British were in regards to the 1943 Bengal famine.

The most charitable possible interpretation, and the one Yang holds, is that this was mostly because the leaders of the Party literally didn't know it was happening, or at least didn't know how bad it was, because they were receiving fradulent information at every level. Mao had dictated there would be a Great Leap Forward; everyone high and low had every motivation to fudge their numbers to make it seem like the Leap was really happening. At minimum the famine is a complete indictment of Mao's leadership and ideas about running a government.

Posted by: Merasmus | Feb 17, 2019 3:35:39 AM | 34

Sasha | Feb 16, 2019 6:52:45 PM | 12

We did not hear about Q Anon since long. Is it dead? Just curious.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 17, 2019 6:29:56 AM | 35

Article in New Yorker about an Israeli business that interfered in elections for cash - raises the question was Russiagate really a sales pitch by a corporate entity to persuade other entities that running election black ops. is a good idea. I'm sure that former Mossad officers would have access to software to make it look like all the "interference" originated in Russia.

The 2016 election changed the calculus. In the U.S., investigators pieced together how Russian operatives had carried out a scheme to promote their preferred candidate and to stoke divisions within U.S. society. Senior Israeli officials, like their American counterparts, had been dubious about the effectiveness of influence campaigns. Russia’s operation in the U.S. convinced Tamir Pardo, the former Mossad director, and others in Israel that they, too, had misjudged the threat. “It was the biggest Russian win ever. Without shooting one bullet, American society was torn apart,” Pardo said. “This is a weapon. We should find a way to control it, because it’s a ticking bomb. Otherwise, democracy is in trouble.”

Some of Pardo’s former colleagues took a more mercenary approach. Russia had shown the world that information warfare worked, and they saw a business opportunity. In early 2017, as Trump took office, interest in Psy-Group’s services seemed to increase. Law firms, one former employee said, asked Psy-Group to “come back in and tell us again what you are doing, because we see this ability to affect decisions that we weren’t fully aware of.” Another former Psy-Group employee put it more bluntly: “The Trump campaign won this way. If the fucking President is doing it, why not us?”


Spoiler: The plot to interfere in the Tulare re-call election failed just like many Mossad operations. LOL.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Feb 17, 2019 8:02:58 AM | 36

27@psychohistorian

"I would appreciate reading reports from our French MoA barflies about the evolving yellow vest movement in France that we don't get from the MSM that I scan....please and thank you"

Don't know what you've been reading, but it's undoubtedly something to do with the yellow vests supposedly being "anti-Semite", one of the government-medias' tactics to try to discredit the movement. The latest twist in this accusation is the confrontation this past Saturday with well-known-in-France philosopher Alain Finkelkraut.

From what I can tell, the insults hurled at Finkelkraut included one that he was "some kind of zionist", which is hardly deniable. The news media has been running with this as an anti-semitic attack, which it plainly is not. Finkelkraut himself calls it a "new kind of antisemitism". What may be antisemitic is, in fact, the amalgamation of Jew and Zionist, which both the media and Finkelkraut are making.

Finkelkraut gets all the time he wants to expound on his positions in the French media. So far I have yet to hear interviews with any of the yellow vests who were filmed hurling well deserved insults at the "philosopher".

Another thing missing from the French mainstream media is any discussion of the French air force becoming the protective arm of president-dictator Idres Déby of Chad. Déby asked his buddy Macron to help protect him from a coup d'état in progress sometime last week, the same Déby who had previously met with Macron's dismissed bodyguard Benalla who had traveled to Chad on a diplomatic passport he was not supposed to have (after his earlier dismissal due to an ongoing scandal).

French jets from the "Operation Barkhane" bombed the rebel group Union of Resistance Forces for several days, after which the Chadian military captured 250 rebel UFR troops, or only about 30 according to a spokesman for the UFR leader Youssouf Hamid.

Of course, Macron's actions in Chad are completely hypocritical in view of his support for and extension of recognition to Juan Random-Guy Guaido as president of Venezuela.

Posted by: macron démission | Feb 17, 2019 8:04:56 AM | 37

@ Posted by: Pft | Feb 16, 2019 9:04:03 PM | 18

The problem with this comparison (which vertebrates the "totalitarianism" thesis) is that Nazifascism is not a system, while socialism/communism is.

Nazifascism is a spectrum of the liberal political system. They are legitimate capitalists. The only significance of nazifascism is that it seems to arise in moments of revolutionary menace to capitalism: they are the the "security dogs" of the capitalists. You know how these dogs work: when they catch the thieve invading your property, its perfectly fine; but you know there'll be the day the system will derail and it will lay its fangs on you five-year-old daugher in a tragic event. There is no evidence Hitler created a new economic system in Germany while he was in power: the economy continued to be fully liberalized, profit continued to rule, and the industrialists enjoyed equal status in negotiations to cede their workers to the war front (contracts were usually of six months duration, which would later be reduced to four months, when the productive chain became strained in the later stages of the War). The Third Reich was a fully liberal, capitalist State, there's no other way to put it.

Communism is the theoretical economic system that will succeed capitalism. Marx first laid out this hypothetical system in his work, but he died long before doing something more. He posited that, as capitalism evolves, it tends to automate labor (rise of organic composition of capital); with this highly automated economy, the profit rate falls (because relative exploitation of living labor falls). This would facilitate the collapse of the capitalist system in favor of a new one, which he called "communism" -- a society where productivity would be so high, labor so automated and generate so much abundance that, in essence, nobody would have to exploit nobody to get what he/she needs to survive and reproduce. When Lenin did the Russian Revolution, he was fully aware Russia didn't have what it take to build socialism -- but Germany had. His hope was that Russia would be just the first domino in Europe, that WWI would be the catalist. But the German Revolution failed in 1918, and that gave birth, later, both to the NEP ("State Capitalism") and Stalin's "socialism in one country".

But Marx was aware such system would not be born peacefully, out of the blue. Then, he posited another theoretical system, trasitory and very violent, where the working classes would take over the means of production in order to build communism. This transition system -- a mixed system between capitalism and communism -- he called either "socialism" (in honor to the "utopian socialists" of the first industrial revolution) or "dictatorship of the proletariat".

According to this definition, today's China is socialist (because, want you or not, it is a mixed state between capitalism and communism), and, in fact, that's the official definition the Chinese government gives to itself: "market socialism (with Chinese characteristics)", which is the transition of the transtion, the "most primitive state of socialism". I don't see any drama here.

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 9:55:44 AM | 38

A few thoughts in regards to China:

The first being an argument I overheard in the kitchen of a high-end dinning place between the lunch chef whose parents were missionaries from America and grew-up in China, and the French trained dinner chef about which culture's food was more refined. The lunch chef reminded the other the Chinese had fine dinning for a least a couple thousand years before the French had discovered how to make bread. A statement that reminded me how long the Chinese have existed as a "people".

And my visit to San Francisco's Chinese Museum on the outskirts of Chinatown where furniture from one of the dynasties was on display. One of the most amazing exhibits of woodworking I've ever seen. All the furniture could be taken apart to move between the summer and winter palaces. They had chairs that were displayed with how they looked when taken apart and what they looked like when reassembled. Absolutely the most amazing thing I've seen in regards to furniture!
Speaking of SF's Chinatown; what an amazing place! Four blocks of the city transformed into an incredibly vibrant place full of businesses and parks I'd wonder thru when bored. I remember an ally I ducked down and found a tiny park (just a bench, a couple of small trees and some grass) with sunlight painting the bench and trees in warmth between gray brick walls. Looking in an open doorway I watched dozens of people dressed exactly alike in dark 'pajamas' inserting fortunes in cookies. That moment still gives me chills.

I grew-up in the Northern California town of Oroville and loved the Chinese Temple Well worth the time to visit if you're in the area.

I keep these memories in my mind when I read about China. I realize us westerners were mere barbarian cultures compared to their long-lived traditions and we could learn a lot from them: how ineffective a wall is in stopping invaders might just be one of these lessons.

Dave

Posted by: David Shinn | Feb 17, 2019 10:05:18 AM | 39

Interesting b's mention of Representative Omar's anti-AIPAC comment and also her biting the head off the neocon war criminal Elliott Abrams in the hearing, which was fantastic to hear...when I first read her comment and the ridiculous furor it raised from Pelosi and the DNC establishment (although to be fair, while Omar spoke unvarnished truth, Pelosi's response was purely politically defensive in nature), I immediately thought of MoA. Omar's comments could have been ripped from some of these very threads.

This is progress people. The idea must be openly discussed in the halls of power before it ever will be adopted in the halls of power.

Progressive of leftist, mildly to be sure, but the terminology in the US political process is decidedly changing. Bernie was a first step.

In this respect, as a reaction to the decades of rightist terminology trending towards fascism, the Trump presidency has been a second larger step in bringing about more females, more people of colour, more leftist in office.

So long as future elections aren't suspended due to a "national emergency"....

Now it is up to the people not to give up because the forces aligned against us seem to be impregnable at this point in time, or because the system takes so long to change even in small doses, or because we elect someone who isn't sufficiently ideological to force sweeping changes in a short time.

Behold the long arc from Nixon to Trump.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 17, 2019 10:49:14 AM | 40

Pft @ 18

The discussion itself on the relative numbers...was it millions or only tens of thousands of pogrom deaths? is really its own horror show.

Your comparison of different totalitarian systems is interesting.

What if Nazi Germany had not precipitated WWII? What if they had merely thrown off the financial shackles of Versailles Treaty and built a highly functional technologically gleaming fascist state during the 1930-40s?

VK @ 38

Lenin of course blamed the defeat of German Communism on the strategic blundering of the ultralefts who believed so fervently in the Grand Marxist Sweep of History that enough people would materialize magically on the streets to join the strikes and fend off the militias.

Alas, similar magical thinking still infects the ultraleft today, with similar results as then: the trend to a glowering fascism grows apace.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 17, 2019 11:12:15 AM | 41

@ macron démission with the France Yellow Vest movement update

Thanks for the context for the propaganda I was reading.

I hope the French keep protesting until they get what they want. It is a good example for other Western nations to see a public not afraid to say they don't like what is going on.

I want to throw out a concept building on the China Opium War history. The concept is that there is a Complacency War going on in the Western states. Enough folks are "comfortable" so they don't have inertia for change. My fear is that if they are brought out of complacency because of world events they will not opt for meaningful change but for more complacency.....sigh. What is that comfort that is the opium of the West?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 17, 2019 11:48:46 AM | 42

Venezuela.

The aim of the ‘opposition’ is shown up in the behavior of the summarily parachuted and terrified Random Guy-do. A cartoonish figure sent up as a trial balloon, not part of a worked-out, take-over plan. (Leaders gotta be leaders, never forget.)

Basically — a stab at econo-grab by a ‘top’ 20% group, with future asset exploitation and stripping by the ‘rich, powerful,’ planned.

Blaming Maduro for sinking of oil revenues / hyping mismanagement etc. is a cry-out for deals - sell offs, to the more powerful, corporations, foreignors, etc.

Awarding small pay-outs to the peons to appease is possible and tolerated when the ressources can be stretched and distributed around (see V. riches); at some point it has to be halted.

A desperado move to profit while the going is good, grabbing the diminishing dregs (sic) of national ressources.

yes....The Curse of Black Gold ...

The likes of Chavez work *with* (in some measure), and *around*, the top-mega owners, rentiers, traditional bourgeoisie, + some parts of instituted State apparatus (ex. military), etc. They avoid direct confrontation as long as they can, a mistake imho, heh. At some point the conflict inevitably bursts out, ressources become rarer, outside vultures gleefully circle, etc.

Ex. one MSM article

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-crisis-oil-juan-guaido-nicolas-maduro-president-citgo-a8779136.html

Posted by: Noirette | Feb 17, 2019 12:07:59 PM | 43

About the CIA/alt-right: there's at least one documented case of the CIA trying to do a social engineering operation in the USA during the Cold War. This was
the rehabilitation of Christianism in detriment to the then tendence of secularization
of the USA. It begun I think in the 60s or 70s. I don't know how successful it was.

One thing is certain: Reagan had an evangelical priest as his "spiritual counselor" -- pastor Graham -- who was very powerful. By the time of George W. Bush, Southern Baptist Church received funds to the billions, marking the apex of interference of the Church in the State. By the time of Obama, the POTUS was already a de facto Protestant Pope,
since not even the Democrats dared to state they were not Christians (i.e. Protestants).

Posted by: vk | Feb 16, 2019 9:13:53 PM | 20

A is A USA Televangelist Jummy Swaggart rockin' the boards of American Hollywood heaven

https://www.speedofdark.com/atilla-shrugged/act-1/scene-3/

Posted by: Guerrero | Feb 17, 2019 12:16:18 PM | 44

@ Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 17, 2019 11:12:15 AM | 41

Lenin didn't "blame" anyone. It was deliberated in the Second International that every social-democrat/socialist/communist party would oppose WWI and, the war happening, would use it as a historical window to overthrow their respective bourgeoisies. Those seem to me like very specific instructions, very far from the dellirious thing you paint of the times. That was before WWI, so it wasn't Lenin's invention.

When the German Social-Democratic Party voted unanimously in favor of WWI in the German parliament (they were the largest group), Lenin at first thought it was fake news, a diversion campaign engineered by the German bourgeoisie. But it was true.

I don't know why are you talking about "magic people on the streets". The Freikorps literally had to exterminate hundreds of thousands of German communists in 1918; there were inumerous battles in Germany during that period. Whatever masses there were in Germany at the time, they certainly weren't imaginary.

It's funny: people here don't hesitate to blame every death on the communists; but when the nazis do it, they didn't meant it, or they couldn't help it: the communists "provoked" them; or they were "magic". Every time a nazifascist force arises, it's always somebody else's fault. Its like the nazis were a natural force, an inevitability of destiny, while the communists were the abortion of nature, the abortion of history.

--//--

What if Nazi Germany had not precipitated WWII? What if they had merely thrown off the financial shackles of Versailles Treaty and built a highly functional technologically gleaming fascist state during the 1930-40s?

As I've said before, it is a myth the Nazis created a new economic system. Germany was already the second industrial power in the world by 1900 (behind the USA). Its small territory was already fully covered by railroads. Hitler did exactly what you proposed: he voided the Versailles Treaty. He reactivated the infrastructure the Weimar Republic had already built. Both factor gave the illusion, during WWII, that Germany had a centralized economy, but its economy was always fully liberalized. Besides, the Third Reich didn't exist in a vacuum: by voiding Versailles, it was automatic the other capitalist superpowers would enforce even worse economic sanctions. This is what really happened, with the UK embargoing the Germans of oil coming from the ME in the mid-1930s. This event triggered Operation Barbarossa in June 1941, since a report from the German Finance Minister concluded the Third Reich would run out of non-synthetic oil by September 1941 (at the time, the USSR didn't produce oil enough for export).

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 12:30:08 PM | 45

marx,Mao,hitler,stalin,are dead.the cia.mossad.m16 are still alive.

Posted by: dahoit | Feb 17, 2019 12:35:51 PM | 46

Korea should brace for EU-led global recession

Thus ends the European Dream™

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 12:38:11 PM | 47

Very interesting discussion about the 20th century historical narrative. Regarding WWII, the hidden/suppressed narrative is that American capitalists were in league with German industrialists (Prescott Bush, Joe Kennedy etc etc), and that Alan Dulles was a Wall Street fixer who managed the OSS and it's predecessor the CIA to benefit American business elites - all under the guise of fighting Nazism / Communism. The Devil's Chessboard lays out this history quite definitively. The sad and tragic irony is that Dulles and his cabal recruited and expatriated many many Nazis, because they were useful tools for building postwar American power networks for the business elite. So many perfidious actions were perpetrated in the name of fighting nazism/communism but were really just power plays for other interests , and thus a clear line connects Dulles to, say, Elliot Abrams. USAmericans have been force fed a false narrative about the world and their misunderstanding of history works to support the elite's ongoing hegemony.

Posted by: Roy G | Feb 17, 2019 1:03:32 PM | 48


When Are You Guilty For The Crimes Of Your Group

Since this is an open thread, I'm linking a brief essay I found at a small blog. The blogger sensibly remarks how he usually tries to avoid the issue:

I tend to avoid the Israel-Palestine issue because it’s so dangerous. It’s the only issue I’ve ever been told to shut my mouth about or else (a donor strike, in that case.)

A site like the MOA one probably gets very few donations from the people who shower millions of bucks on AIPAC, but then MOA has grown to the point it can probably survive without sucking up to that breed. Many tiny ones simply cannot. But back to that blogger as he dives right in.

But let’s state this simply: Israel is a religious-ethnic apartheid settler state, where the land and homes of much of the people who lived there were seized by force.

The problem is that criticism if Israel, a particularly evil state, is deliberately conflated with criticism of Jews, because Israel is an explicitly Jewish state.

Now if AIPAC gets its way, this sort of thing will no longer be published because its pet poodles in both houses of the US Congress will have made it illegal. Likewise, MOA won't dare republish even links unless he wants to risk an extended visit at a torture site in Cuba. Finally, I'd be a damned fool to write or even speak this stuff anywhere in the US Surveillance State within hearing distance of a smart phone - or maybe even a smart dishwasher. But for at least a while it's not quite that bad.

With respect to Israel, well, all it has to do is offer all Palestinians full citizenship and give them reparations equal to what was stolen. This will probably mean the end of Israel as an religious-ethnic state, but, umm, are religious ethnic states a good thing?

Ok, so I chickened out and skipped to the end past some of the 'meaty' stuff. No point of giving the AIPAC goons too much free hanging rope, and they're going to be 'feeling their oats' after steamrollering Congress Woman Ilhan Omar.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 1:09:10 PM | 49

Here's some extracurricular Sunday reading:

"Real ‘obscene masquerade’: How BBC depicted staged hospital scenes as proof of Douma chemical attack" by Vanessa Beeley (RT)

Beeley's "op-ed" is nominally an "opinion", I suppose-- but it contains her usual credible and comprehensive reporting. MOA readers won't be surprised by the old news that the reported Douma attack was phony, but there's some interesting discussion about why the BBC's Riam Dalati suddenly emerged as a whistleblower.

Hint/spoiler: "modified limited hangout".
______________________________________________

"Making Globalism Great Again" by C.J. Hopkins (Consent Factory, Inc.)

I enjoy and admire Hopkins' usual approach, which is to front-load his commentaries with superb gonzo satire and snark-- and then sum it all up more straightforwardly at the end.

This time around, there is far less witty foreplay. That's not a criticism; I give Hopkins credit for wittily expressing straightforward truth, in the original sense of the term.

Posted by: Ort | Feb 17, 2019 1:18:30 PM | 50

okay, so i skipped the talk about famine in china.. i read some of it, but it seems like historians make stuff up sometimes..not to discount history, but i am just discounting some of the historians who might have an agenda to push... i know.. historians with an agenda... the very thought of it reeks, lol... this is what happens when historians are driven by ideology.. they give more ideology and less history and figuring out what is what becomes very tricky..

@nemesis callling.. as i have said before - i enjoy your posts... you come across as genuine and i admire that!

@37 macron démission.. thanks for responding to psychohistorian... your perspective is much appreciated!

i think jordan petersons name got mentioned a few times... i am still in the dark on this guy.. i have one of his books here, but i have yet to read it.. he is a canuck as well and seems to be unusually well known in other parts of the world.. i saw his book in italy, slovenia and croatia on my travels this past fall... i will have to find out more about him.. it seems some young people i know are very supportive of him in general...

Posted by: james | Feb 17, 2019 1:22:47 PM | 51

donkeytale@41

This is what really happened, with the UK embargoing the Germans of oil coming from the ME in the mid-1930s. This event triggered Operation Barbarossa in June 1941, since a report from the German Finance Minister concluded the Third Reich would run out of non-synthetic oil by September 1941 (at the time, the USSR didn't produce oil enough for export).

That is an interesting and plausible explanation of a major factor in WWII that I have never heard nor can I find anywhere. IT makes perfect sense.

The OSS was started by Wall Street and I am sure that they have not let that BEAST get away form their grasp. Most of modern history lays at their feet ignored.

I am sure one of Dulles's roles while he was in Switzerland working for the OSS was to ensure the free flow of capital between the Bank of International settlement accounts and the NAZI subsidiaries of US companies. There are some great old out of print books on those issues. One in print is here...

https://libcom.org/library/allied-multinationals-supply-nazi-germany-world-war-2

Anthony Sutton also did some extensive work on the issues mentioned here before he got kicked out of Stanford for doing this work. This stuff will never be recognized in the mainstream. We knows who owns the publishing houses, who controls the textbooks, and who owns the press.

Marx blows. I could never figure out how a civilizations as intelligent as the Chinese could bow to a large poster of an old Jewish guy.

Posted by: dltravers | Feb 17, 2019 1:42:05 PM | 52


Like everywhere in the world today, Middle America is also facing a determined and pervasive attack from criminal outsiders who want to destroy their way of life with an endless campaign of corruption.

If you spend time reading the comments at Moon of Alabama, then you’ve probably already guessed who I'm talking about. That's correct. "Not-sees."

Oh yeah, the hitlerites are out there, scrawling incorrectly made fascist symbols into the newly fallen snow, the ultimate display of "White supremacy." We really need to give up more of our freedoms so this will never happen again.

News article: “Police are asking for the public's help to determine who carved swastikas in the snow Thursday.”

This is not a joke. We need to devote police resources to this literal snow job. Turn in your neighbor! I don't know if he's the one you want, but I heard him saying bad things about "African-Americans," once. You better arrest him, just in case.

News article: “The department tweeted out this image saying two swastikas were discovered at the Vicino on the Lake apartment complex at around 7pm. They were eight-feet wide by eight feet high.

Police are working with the FBI to find the people or person who carved them in the snow.”

Let's get the federal creep state involved, too. Maybe use a few of our "nukes" to flush out the goose-stepping snow bunnies.

Article: “They want anyone who saw suspicious activity in the area to call Creve Coeur Police at: 314-872-2543.”

Be on the watch for crime think or face crime. It could easily be a nawrtzee disguised as a good little barcode. Regulate your own behavior. Develop the American Look. Live in fear.

Swastikas carved in snow at Creve Coeur apartments


https://fox2now.com/2018/11/16/swastikas-carved-in-snow-at-creve-coeur-apartments/

Posted by: Erika | Feb 17, 2019 2:04:53 PM | 53


While it isn't surprising, I haven't found any reports about Riam Dalati coming clean on the staging done in Douma's hospital to perpetrate the chemical attack fraud. Has anyone found a mention of it?

Posted by: David | Feb 17, 2019 2:05:29 PM | 54

NemesisCalling @30

What your complaining about can be boiled down to this: Trump is a faux populist.

Obama was the same.

For some reason, people just can't wrap their heads around the simple fact that faux populist leadership model is a political model that fits perfectly with our inverse totalitarian model of government.

Pro-Trump people that are disappointed don't see, or don't want to see, that the system is rigged. That challenges their long-held conception of what 'America' is all about. And pro-Trump people that are NOT (yet) disappointed don't see, or don't want to see, how Trump has failed to deliver on promises to others.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 17, 2019 2:10:16 PM | 55

@54 david.. i haven't been looking, but i would guess the msm will not be poking their own eye with any story about riam dalaiti by sharing what he stated.. rt carries it and a few others...

i can always trust the ignoramus james jeffries to clearly state the unstated agenda of the usa with regard to syria...

"Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, US special representative to Syria James Jeffrey stressed that Washington’s goals in northeast Syria have not changed despite the American forces’ withdrawal. He stated that Washington does not want Syrian government forces to regain control of this territory."

i would love some syrian representative saying something similar about a part of the usa, if the tables were reversed... these ignoramus's have no clue at how utter devoid of sanity their statements sound on the world stage...

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/us-not-in-favor-of-syrian-govt-coming-back-to-sdf-held-area-official/

Posted by: james | Feb 17, 2019 2:16:26 PM | 56

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 12:30:08 PM | 45


It's funny: people here don't hesitate to blame every death on the communists; but when the nazis do it, they didn't meant it, or they couldn't help it: the communists "provoked" them; or they were "magic". Every time a nazifascist force arises, it's always somebody else's fault. Its like the nazis were a natural force, an inevitability of destiny, while the communists were the abortion of nature, the abortion of history.

Well, they just trying hard to remove stigma from the ideology they love and cherish.
I wonder where they got those ideas from...probably from their parents and grandparents.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 17, 2019 2:17:42 PM | 57

I can't believe my eyes.
These comments are the epitome of cynicism.Such a dirty marxist bunch of ppl is an injury to everyone who ever lived in communism.
You are really scum.

Posted by: XGen | Feb 17, 2019 2:24:29 PM | 58

@ Posted by: XGen | Feb 17, 2019 2:24:29 PM | 58

I thought it was the liberals' practice to ignore the millions of deaths that happen as a direct result of capitalist exploitation in the Third World, or often blaming those deaths either on Third World corruption or racial inferiority. Or, when they state those deaths are actually saving lives, since they are, by definition, the best system possible, so each death that occurs under capitalism is "legitimate" or "natural". After all, living in Subsaaran Africa is a paradise comparable to communist Poland...

But hey, as long as your Big Mac is served on time, it is all worth it, isn't it?

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 2:32:22 PM | 59

Since this an open thread, here is a tiny little thing from Alternet.

Fox News’ Chris Wallace calls Rush Limbaugh a hypocrite to his face: ‘You were outraged’ over Obama’s executive actions

Rush 'druggie' Limpaugh doesn't give a hoot about illegal executive actions - so long as they're being done by "his guy" and for some cause he personally favors.

I agree with Jackrabbit at #55 - Obama was a suave and courtly fraud - a POTUS who spoke in complete and grammatical sentences as he advocated horrible polices and did monstrous things. Quite unlike the boorish Donald Trump.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 2:32:23 PM | 60

Canada's Freeland endorses a "rules-based international order", and articulates a strategy of end-runs around international law and multilateral organizations such as the UN and OAS using temporary coalitions of like-minded nations to bring about specific results.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4969800/canada-foreign-relations-chrystia-freeland/

Posted by: jayc | Feb 17, 2019 2:34:14 PM | 61


James

At some point doesn't it become a problem to not address the story? It is going to reach the attention of enough people to embarrass the MSM if nothing is said about it. I e-mailed a copy of the story to the editor of my local newspaper. I asked if he were going to allow himself to be a passive instrument of the American propaganda machine or perform the duty of a journalist in a democratic society. I don't expect an answer but maybe it will make it more difficult to sleep at night.

Posted by: David | Feb 17, 2019 2:35:14 PM | 62

@ Posted by: dltravers | Feb 17, 2019 1:42:05 PM | 52

Well, you should ask the Chinese themselves. Or, you could be more economic and rational, and simply look at yourself in the mirror.

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 2:44:57 PM | 63

@61 jayc.. i take it you live in canada.. this rules based international order' is code for ignoring international law!! i think lawfare thought it up.. it is 100% bogus just like freakland..

@62 david... good question... we might already be their... i personally don't believe much of anything the msm says at this point.. if that is the unintended consequence of all the lying that the msm happily shares with us - so be it..

Posted by: james | Feb 17, 2019 2:46:03 PM | 64


Sadly, the very promising tale of flurry vandalism above (Erika #53) doesn’t really provide much to discuss, apart from the usual calls to spy on everyone and install a kommissar in your own head in response to an obvious fraud. We are a free and open society.

Fortunately, g*d never closes a door without opening a window and a link was provided to an even more incredible tale of "hate" …..

News article: “Phil Rossman plays golf at Smock Golf Course nearly five days a week. Over the weekend, the Vietnam veteran saw something during his regular round that goes against everything he stands for in life.”

Comment: Boomer Bill, who participated in a wildly unpopular and illegal war half a century ago, was eager for his daily dissipation, but all was not well with the plan to burn up all his remaining sh*kels hitting a ball into little holes.

He encountered pure evil, the horror, the horror. I should also mentioned he might be one of g*d's chosen and it sure is convenient that he's the one who discovered this, on the links where he can always be found.

News article: “I guess I was a bit shocked to see it in the middle of a golf course," Rossman told WXIN. "But not surprised to see it in society in general.”

Comment: It's like the banality of evil, man. Here, let me stuff another discount burrito into my fat face. It sure is good my country is dying. I should be safely dead by the time the real chaos starts.

It's really not surprising to see this, says Boomer Phil, as we all know the shkotzim, I mean my fellow Whites, are irredeemably wicked Not-sees who must be destroyed.

News article: “Rossman snapped a few pictures that show a racial slur, along with a swastika carved into the 8th hole green, the most recent in a number of swastikas found in Indiana in the past few months.”

The National Socialist plague in Indiana.

We need those "hate speech" laws and we need them right now!

Swastika, racial slur found carved into Indianapolis golf course

https://fox2now.com/2018/11/02/swastika-racial-slur-found-carved-into-indianapolis-golf-course/

Posted by: Erika | Feb 17, 2019 3:05:20 PM | 65

@55 jackrabbit

I knew my post would catch your interest. Indeed, it largely conceded to your ideas around the DJT-phenom and so far you have largely been proven right.

Can I predict the future as to whether DJT will prove to be a net-positive for the US and world? No...though I do have my theories. With their faux-paradigm, they are playing with fire. They hope that with the waning relevance of DJT and near-certainty that he will not be elected again, which I now believe, faith will be restored in the duopoly and statist politician.

As I have said before...if not MAGA v1.0 of restored sovereignty and beneficial effects, then so be it with MAGA v2.0 where the global elites lose control of the ship and the fucker goes down anyway which will offer a new opportunity. In my mind, they are playing with fire.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 17, 2019 3:36:07 PM | 66

@ Erika #65

The National Socialist plague in Indiana.

The "Hoosier State" is where I happen to be situated. I understand the outrage about swastikas, for I get the same feeling when somebody who is being deliberately obnoxious is touting a huge confederate flag.

But I wonder if - in this 'politically correct' age - I would be harassed if I displayed a pre-Nazi art object?

The Nazis were crazy about Wagner. Does this taint that composer?

I don't have any answer to the problem of disagreeable louts.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 3:41:19 PM | 67

Headline:

Trump suggests networks should face ‘retribution’ for ‘hit jobs’ after SNL mocks president

There's a real risk Trump is going to develop a taste for "ruling by decree" - just as if he was a genuine perfumed prince back in the good old days of Royalty. If the Supreme Court had a speck of integrity there would be an immediate ruling of 9 to 0 ruling demolishing his Wall Emergency.

The president defended his national emergency by boasting that he’ll win at the Supreme Court because it’s full of his judges.

But the Supremes are a large part of the current problem, and I don't expect them to do more than quietly applaud the lawless POTUS.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 4:03:39 PM | 68

donkeytale@41

In 1938, of the total consumption of 44 million barrels, imports from overseas accounted for 28 million barrels or roughly 60 percent of the total supply. Much of it from Mexico after they nationalized their oil industry, much to the US and Big Oils chagrin, so not a dependable source

By 1938 there were nearly a half million fewer agrarian workers than there had been in 1933. Although the regime spoke about achieving self-sufficiency under the Four-Year Plan, agricultural imports increased by 50 percent between 1936 and 1939. Nearly a third of Germany’s food supply came from southeastern Europe (in 1932 that figure had been only around 10 percent).

Even with these imports the Ministry of Agriculture was projecting food shortages for 1940.

The publicly stated goal was for Germany to achieve self-sufficiency; as Hitler put it they “must be completely independent of foreign countries with respect to those materials...”

War was really the only way to accomplish this. Otherwise Germany would forever be subject to pressure from the UK-France -US actions (sanctions or blockade) not to mention the Stalin in the East. Knowing Hitlers goal and the desire for another War which would lead to the UN and state of Israel and a New World Order Hitler was financed and assisted technologically by the Western Elites

Frankly, if Hitler had changed course and not went to War they would have utilized a false flag attack to create a war declared by either the Soviets or UK/France

War was inevitable because WWI had failed to achieve all that was needed to create the NWO the Western elites envisioned. That was the whole point of the Versailles Treaty, to create such conditions for War, and Hitler was backed because he would deliver it. Also Hitlers antisemitism was seen as a plus for Zionists seeking support for its own state in Palestine. But that was secondary I believe.

A more interesting question I think is what would have happened if Hitler defeated Stalin. This was a possibility the elites must have considered and it would have happened if Global Warming had come earlier. China and Mao , who was being groomed by Stalin may have been their backup option to send up against Hitlers Empire

Posted by: Pft | Feb 17, 2019 4:21:42 PM | 69

Be good to have a meet up of MOAs in the UK. Bevin? Anyone else? Sometimes I feel so isolated I just don't talk. I notice Naked Capitalism people meet up, so why can't we?

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 17, 2019 4:40:07 PM | 70

Posted by: Pft | Feb 17, 2019 4:21:42 PM | 69

A more interesting question I think is what would have happened if Hitler defeated Stalin.

Well I guess I would not be born, and you would post your comments in MoA in German, wondering what would have happened if Stalin defeated Hitler.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 17, 2019 4:41:43 PM | 71

Okay, for my proposed meet-up we all get b.'s fare and expenses to the UK there and back. How good would that be?

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 17, 2019 4:43:28 PM | 72

@11
@38

The totalitarianism theory is incidentally also the intellectual soil for the smears against opponents of Israel like Jeremy and Ilhan, the "Cold War Liberals" which created the "totalitarianism" theory turned against liberalism in 1968 after student protests and the 1967 war turned the left for Palestine and became the Neo Conservatives. Ever since, they've been getting away with their agenda by attacking anyone who proposes socialism as a "totalitarian anti-Semite"

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Feb 17, 2019 4:46:03 PM | 73

I choose not to sully this thread with a corporate media link, but the headline "Heather Nauert withdraws from consideration as UN ambassador" sums it up.

Of course, the US has always chosen bumptious ideological assclowns for this prestigious post, in order to send the not-so-subliminal message that, for all practical geopolitical purposes, the US holds the UN in utter contempt and disdain.

The UN has seen better days, as one might expect since it is effectively owned and operated by the US-dominated Western hegemony that regards the art of diplomacy as passé and obsolete.

But the preliminary selection of Nauert was even more nakedly a "Peter Principle" [Business Dictionary] exercise than previous choices.

Let the thawing of Jeane Kirkpatrick begin!

Posted by: Ort | Feb 17, 2019 4:48:57 PM | 74

This is crazy too...shows how the Establishment corporate globalisation neocons/neoliberals can't keep their smears straight and lash out at the people protecting prospects for human survival a little too obviously and sloppily:

Merkel Claims Climate Protests By Students Russian "Hybrid War"

Seemingly citing an example of such an artificially concocted movement, Merkel mentioned the mass student demonstrations that see German schoolchildren skipping their lessons every Friday to protest against the government’s lukewarm response to climate change.

“In Germany now, children are protesting for climate protection,” she said. While conceding that it was “a really important issue,” Merkel appeared to cast doubt on its grassroot origins.

“But you can’t imagine that all German children, after years, and without any outside influence, suddenly hit on the idea that they have to take part in this process,” she said.

Merkel’s innuendo is not uncommon, as Moscow has been blamed for a range of international interferences by media and foreign governments, from Brexit in the UK, Yellow Vests in France, and – most recently – the global measles outbreak.

However, Merkel’s suggestion did not sit well with environmental activists at home, who were fuming at the suggestion.

https://www.rt.com/news/451656-merkel-russia-climate-protest/

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Feb 17, 2019 4:51:11 PM | 75

What they're reading about US-Americans overseas.

11 year old facing charges after refusing to stand for US pledge of allegiance in Florida

I wonder what would have happened if the kid had stood at attention and done a smart Bellamy salute? That's the way the Pledge inventor wanted it done, and WAS done until well into WW2.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 4:55:30 PM | 76

@ hopehely #71

The US would contain no Jews, probably no black people or Indians, and this long after the Nazi Victory I doubt if you'd meet any young people who had ever seen a church building.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 5:00:53 PM | 77

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 5:00:53 PM | 77
Bellamy salute would be brought back, albeit to a slightly different flag, and the name Zachary would be fallen out of fashion....


Posted by: hopehely | Feb 17, 2019 5:19:24 PM | 78

The people go to the malls
On Sunday Mornings
Like they used to go to church.
The church was the media in those days
The priests told the story.
“The rich man in his castle
The poor man at his gates
All things bright and beautiful
All creatures great and small.”
(from the English religious song, later deleted)
A Romanian friend told me his Dad said:
Under Communism we had money but there was nothiong to buy.
Under Capitalism there is everything to buy but you don’t have the money to buy it.
An older Spanish waiter when I asked him about the difference between Franco’s Spain and neoliberlist Spain said:
Before we could go out and eat and drink as much as we wanted.
But we had to watch what we said.
Now we can say what we like but we can’t afford to go out.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 17, 2019 5:20:12 PM | 79

@ Posted by: Pft | Feb 17, 2019 4:21:42 PM | 69

Yes, the oil world in 1936 was very different from the oil world we have today: people knew the ME had a good source of oil, but not how much; the USSR had yet to untap all of its reserves; some oil was still extracted from Romania but that was it for the European Peninsula (the North Sea oil was discovered only in the 1980s); the two largest -- by far -- oil producers and exporters was Venezuela and, first place... the USA. Yes, folks, the USA was the largest producer and exporter of oil in the 1930s. The British controlled the oil production in the ME at the time, and they embargoed the Third Reich in 1937 if memory doesn't fail me. That was what de facto started the War in the European front (in the Asian front, the War had already started with the Japanese invasion of Manchuria).

--//--


A more interesting question I think is what would have happened if Hitler defeated Stalin. This was a possibility the elites must have considered and it would have happened if Global Warming had come earlier. China and Mao , who was being groomed by Stalin may have been their backup option to send up against Hitlers Empire

With the benefit of hindsight, we know the Third Reich would never win the war against the USSR. Unless... the Western allies (UK, France and the USA) allied with the Third Reich. The question would be: who would get what of the Soviet territory? It would be the pre-1914 scenario all over again.

It is an illusion to think WWII was a war between capitalism and socialism. We have that vision nowadays because now we know the Cold War happened.

But that was not the problem for the people at that time. The UK was an empire in frank decline: by 1900, it was already only the third largest industrial power (behind precisely the USA and Germany); financial power still guaranteed it the status of first superpower, but that wouldn't last at that pace. The USA was still agonizing from the 1929 depression: FDR's New Deal wasn't working at all. France was an old colonial power who didn't want to lose position to Germany. Italy and Germany were late bloomers in the colonial game and wanted some of those. They tried to crush the Russian Revolution with the White Army, back in 1918, in one of the first ever modern regime change/proxy war operation: it failed, but life had to go on. The USSR was just trying to survive this hurricane.

In that scenario, the only option for Germany -- with all the territories in Africa and SE Asia tapped out -- was to conquer the Soviet Union. That was the empire that could mirror the UK in the East. But now we know it was a lost war from the beginning. If he knew that, he would've to ally with the UK, France and the USA. But then, he wouldn't have is Eastern Empire, because those imperialist powers would have a portion. He had to take it alone.

The WWII is, by all means, the continuation of WWI, an imperialist war; I'm on team "one war, two parts". There are historians who still think those were two different wars, though.

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 5:58:41 PM | 80

Lochearn@70 Thanks for the invite, mate, but I live in Canada.

vk@45" When the German Social-Democratic Party voted unanimously in favor of WWI in the German parliament.."
As I recall, not the event but Karl Schorske's book (German Social Democracy..) read half a century ago, Karl Liebknecht voted against war credits and a small group, led by the Party Chairman, who later founded the USPD, abstained. And the majority, literally broke out into Deutschland Uber Alles and voted war credits.
Excellent analysis of fascism @ 38, by the way.

James re Jordan Peterson: Kim Petersen at Dissident Voice recently did a 6 part (!!!) series on the guy. Go to Dissident Voice and use the Search feature.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 17, 2019 6:00:57 PM | 81

# vk #80

With the benefit of hindsight, we know the Third Reich would never win the war against the USSR.

I don't know who that "we" you speak of might be. Subtracting Lend Lease and the state of war between the US and Germany, the Nazis would have most certainly have won their campaign in the East. After that the Battle of Britain would have been restarted and quickly won, and the US of A would have been the nation which was alone. Between the pressure from Japan and Germany, Philip Dick's Man in the High Castle would have been one of the "best case" scenarios. A more likely and far grimmer one was the situation in Cyril Kornbluth's long story - Two Dooms.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 6:22:02 PM | 82

@27, psychohistorian

To get a feel for who the Gilets Jaunes are, what they are looking for and what it is like to participate in the protests, go to https://www.lemediapourtous.fr and look under Reportages. Vincent Lapierre walks in the protests and interviews participants. The reports usually appear a few days after each protest and are subtitled in English shortly after.

David Dufresne is a journalist who is documenting the injuries sustained by the participants as they exercise their democratic right to protest. These can be seen on his Twitter account David Dufresne(@davduf). There was a press conference at the European Parliament to draw attention to the fact that the tactics used by the Macron regime have nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with repression (only French subtitles). https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=62&v=k1RqaSSMpsc

Posted by: cirsium | Feb 17, 2019 6:52:54 PM | 83

I see nobody's linked to the recent Pepe Escobar essays that are very difficult to access at the newly designed asiatimes website. "US elites remain incapable of understanding China" might easily be about the USSR or Russia since the same reasons as to why misunderstanding is arrived at apply--Sinologists are just as incapable as were Sovietologists.

In his previous, "Iran looks East amid US trials and tribulations", Pepe explores the shortcomings of the EU's alternative payment system and related issues.

I highly suggest exploring the links Pepe provides in the first item so the spectacular fail in Outlaw US Empire policy toward China can be anticipated. I really hope Pepe can find a different publisher for his essays as asiatimes is now poorer than before its "upgrade."

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 17, 2019 7:57:57 PM | 84

@81 bevin... thanks! here is a link for others.. i am going to read it now...cheers

https://dissidentvoice.org/2019/01/the-utility-of-rules-and-hierarchy/

Posted by: james | Feb 17, 2019 8:08:30 PM | 85

@ karlof1 #84

Thanks for the information about Escobar's new publishing place. I now realize I hadn't seen his stuff for a while.

In my opinion he nailed it with that essay on China. I started skimming that CourseCorrection report and saw nothing except garbage. There is all the whining about China stealing things. Well, if "They" leave the plans for the F-35 or the apartheid Jewish state's Iron Dome on a reachable computer, somebody is going to take that information and run with it. The US F-35 is a piece of crap, but the Chinese version is missing only a good jet engine to be a respectable airplane. Don't know why anybody would want the 'iron dome', maybe it has hidden inner beauty which could blossom in other hands.

I found the article about Iran to be more interesting. I'm doubting if the Iranians are desperate enough to grovel for the few crumbs held out to them by the Europeans. And it takes some real gall for those Europeans to make demands about Iran's missiles.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 17, 2019 8:36:21 PM | 86

I am including two links from Xinhuanet about different subjects

1st
Spotlight: American, Chinese scientists call for international collaboration in science research

The take away quote
"
"Actually, in past 30 years, no large-scale high-energy physics project was done by one country," Wang told Xinhua. "And now it is the time for newly developed emerging countries to contribute more to science."

Wang was echoed by Caroline Wagner, a science policy expert at Ohio State University. Wagner told Xinhua that the "openness" was critical for basic science research and the key to it was "to share," at all levels.

International collaboration is a major topic on this year's AAAS meeting with a theme of "Science Transcending Boundaries." It came against looming challenges for international scientific partnership.
"
My $0.02 is that if you piss off the scientists, they will bring you down.....fuck politics they say

2nd
Over 67 pct of Okinawa residents set to vote against U.S. base relocation plan: poll

The take away quote
"
Okinawa Governor Denny Tamaki hopes the result of the referendum will show the local opposition to the transfer of the U.S. Marine Corps Air Station Futenma in Okinawa, which hosts the bulk of U.S. military facilities in Japan, although the vote is not legally binding, according to local media reports.
"
My $0.02 is that 2019 may be the year the the US is ejected from Iraq, Korea, Philippines, Okinawa, Afghanistan and oh yeah, Syria.....can we include nations in South America too?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 17, 2019 9:21:47 PM | 87

And showing why Korea is going to reunite in spite of the US meddling

Exclusive: U.S. blocks North Korean air traffic revival ahead of Trump-Kim summit - sources

The take away quote
"
The United States has blocked efforts by a U.N. agency to improve civil aviation in North Korea at a time when Pyongyang is trying to reopen part of its airspace to foreign flights, three sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.
The U.S. move is part of a negotiating tactic to maintain sanctions pressure on North Korea, one of the sources said, ahead of a second summit between President Donald Trump and leader Kim Jong Un in Vietnam in late February.
"

It is all about empire just like it is all about Trump

Until the music stops and the bullies are called out for their perfidy

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 17, 2019 10:04:46 PM | 88

Vk@38
“According to this definition, today's China is socialist (because, want you or not, it is a mixed state between capitalism and communism), and, in fact, that's the official definition the Chinese government gives to itself: "market socialism (with Chinese characteristics)", which is the transition of the transtion, the "most primitive state of socialism". I don't see any drama here.”

Hitler had a mixed economy as well with a number of industries/corporations that were nationalized. Mussolini called his fascism corporatism. China has a bunch of state owned companies but thats deceptive. They all have a corporate management structures made up of mainly party members and pay differentials between management and board members relative to worker wages on par with the West. Most pay out no or few dividends to the state to be used for social programs like Venezuelas oil company and most of what few dividends and taxes that are paid are returned via state subsidies. Party members affiliated with the SOE gets rich, workers eat cake

To me a more appropiate benchmark of socialism is wealth inequality and workers rights. If you have less of the former and more of the latter you may call yourself socialist. China is not much better than the US in this regard IMO. Household debt approaching US levels as pct of GDP so the workers are on their way to debt slavery. Funding for social benefits largely come out of paychecks in the form of taxes and employee contributions, and lower wages to offset the employers share

Deng Xiao Ping admitted he did not know what socialism should look like. Marx left it so nobody knew for sure. One definition is a good as another I guess. As Deng said all that matters is if its a good cat. For the party elite and some of the citizens I guess it is a good one, as in the US, but not good enough IMO. See where it ends up.

As for Marx theories, writing as he did in the early stages of the Industrial age I dont think he could foresee all the tools the state and elite would have at their disposal to protect corporate elites interests.


Posted by: Pft | Feb 17, 2019 10:15:13 PM | 89

@ Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 5:58:41 PM | 80

> the North Sea oil was discovered only in the 1980s

Say what? The North Sea was actually producing ~2 million barrels per day by 1980. Oil had been discovered decades prior and most of the best fields (Ekofisk, Troll, Brent, Forties, Statfjord, etc.) were found in the 70s.

Posted by: Ash | Feb 17, 2019 10:21:12 PM | 90

@ bevin... thanks again for the recommendation on dissident voice of the 6 part series on a review of jordan petersons book.. unfortunately their search engine is a pain in the ass and could be made much easier.. i got the first 5, but i am unable to find part 6... i enjoyed it.. thanks!

Posted by: james | Feb 17, 2019 10:25:47 PM | 91

The Blind & The Blinding Light of Liberty
Where Scotland finds herself today, in this constitutional quagmire, is the inevitable outcome of the demographic inequities of the entity that calls itself, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the fact that the intrinsic instincts of the peoples of it’s four constituent nations, regarding how this country came to be, what it is and even what it is called, are fundamentally different.

The salient problem is not that 85% of British people are English people, it is that the vast majority of these English people, have since the Act of Union, used the name “England” and continue to use it as a synonym for Britain. That has allowed a psychological position to entrench itself over so many generations that by now they cannot think that England and Britain are not one and the same entity. They only look at the numbers (the demographics of the UK) and that much misused word, democracy, becomes their default position.

In 2014, the political leaders of the unionist parties, unanimously proclaimed that the Union was worth saving, as it was a testament to how equal, historic nations can work together as one, united by common interests and values. Their unhesitatingly speedy return to the ‘business as usual’ politics after their success in the independence referendum of 2014, clearly demonstrated that the accumulating evidence was correct, that their ‘Save the Union’ rhetoric peddled previous to the vote was just that, rhetoric. As the result of the Brexit referendum that followed two years later has demonstrated, perhaps painfully, to the many Scots who voted twice to remain in the existing unions, has revealed the hollowness and the insincerity of their promises, their platitudes and their position.

It is only in the minds of Scottish, Welsh and Irish unionists that there exists an equality of nations. Brexit demonstrated otherwise. When the aforementioned Celtic unionists consider the history of Britain, they proudly assert their country’s contribution to the whole. Their country’s contribution to the greatness of Great Britain. Neither of them assume that their nation is Great Britain.There is an assumption still, based on a willingness to understand that nations exist within nations, within nations. In England this is not the case because it has never been the case. Parents did not raise their kids to reflect this reality. They are English. Celtic contributors to the collective are considered to be English, without a second thought.

Language underpins our culture. What words mean, matters. When words can be reformatted to reflect one’s prejudices we are in troubled times. From that point onward, our history will be automatically reformatted, our assumptions will be reformatted by ourselves to account for this history. How we live our lives and understand the world, will be reformatted to take account of these assumed historical facts.

Almost all of us on the British Isles have undergone so much reformatting by the church, the state and ourselves that we no longer know who we are, from where we came, when we came or why we came. Even our history that we are aware of, or have an inkling of, we have no understanding of it’s depth. We have allowed that to pass from our memory and from our consciousness, indeed from our imaginations.

If the people of Scotland had retained the memory of their lives lived before the Union, indeed even from before the arrival of Christianity, we would not be where we are today. We should be confident of successfully overcoming any obstacles, because that is all we have ever done, since the tribes and clans amalgamated all those centuries ago to form the union that was Alba and Scotland. Beyond this ancient and successful union, of course we should have our friends and we will have our neighbours but international entanglements in organisations like the European Union and NATO are something to be avoided. We should be standing on our own two feet, living, working and trading under our own laws and by our own values, for it is the hypocrisy that arises from compromise that will always lead us to our doom. Integrity and principles can be respected, particularly when they are the values of egalitarianism, fraternity and brotherhood. The values of the enlightenment. Why to compromise on such high ideals? Why to dilute them? Genuine independence is the only logical and natural vehicle to deliver these Scottish ideals to the Scottish people.

Posted by: Steve D Keith | Feb 17, 2019 10:50:18 PM | 92

A Letter to the Boss (2)

Dear Scotland,

Regarding the future foreign and defence policies that might be followed by an independent Government of Scotland. May I suggest a number of ideas that ought to see the legislative light of day. It could be said that a consequence of the British Imperial project, that defiantly continues to this day, is that two aspects of state policy, the two aspects that project a nation to an Earth of watching eyes and listening ears, are intrinsically interwoven. This has to end. Defence of the nation means just that. The country, once shod of the fantasy of empire, would be it’s and their own homeland. Essentially becoming a domestic matter, of course, by definition a domestic matter with an international, foreign dimension.

An independent non-nuclear Scotland must retain an adequate Navy and Air Force with vessels and aircraft appropriate to defending our territorial and maritime interests. Giving up the nuclear powered submarines that carry the murderous Trident weapon system of global destruction, the aircraft carriers and the battleships, all of which are used to maintain a global military presence and threat, allows a future Scottish Navy to retain the support and research vessels, the frigates and inshore boats that we require for protecting our offshore interests and our coastline. The next generation of carriers and auxiliary ships are either already built or are being built, therefore to ‘divvy’ up the vessels, all of which will be modern and up to date, should pose few problems. The political interests of Scotland and Britain diverge to such an extent, that the ships that each state would set out to retain for themselves after the divorce, they could do so without argument.

The current infrastructure would be retained for maintaining, refitting and building current ships and the vessels of the future. Our expertise in shipbuilding would be protected and expanded as the ports and docks currently utilised will continue to be so. Government contracts and diversification into the construction of commercial ships (ferries and fishing) and submersibles will guarantee long term employment and a stable future for the yards currently struggling under the senseless, anti-Scottish strategy being pursued by the Ministry of Defence and the Westminster Parliament. Our shipbuilding industry must be reinvigorated and restructured to work hand in glove with former military yards, sharing expertise, experience and enterprise.

The traditional regiments of Scottish infantry must be raised again, keeping the link between soldiering and the soil and never again deployed on foreign soil, other than at the behest of a sovereign government of Scotland operating under United Nations jurisdiction. All troops would be stationed within the country other than those on UN duty, who of course would be being paid for their service by the UN. The traditions and professionalism of the Scottish soldier would be a valuable asset, not only to Scotland, but to the international community as a whole. Where needed they could be sent and be relied on to serve assuredly and effectively. Battalions of Engineers could be put to work appropriately on infrastructure projects in conjunction with their civilian counterparts to achieve effective, efficient and cost effective outcomes both overseas and at home.

It is in the arena of foreign policy that effective defence of the nation is actually achieved. Once the fighting has started, nations have failed in their duty to protect their citizens. All sides end up as losers, one way or another. Diplomacy and the development of real and respectful relationships with international colleagues is the surest guarantor of our own security. Withdrawal from all international unions, whether they be economic or military, allows us to be independent and non-aligned. That action in itself would see our status in the world community rise. It is a non-threatening, positive position to adopt. Open to all sides, at all times, always. Membership of NATO condemns Scotland to being a part of the American neo-conservative imperialistic agenda, as it is seen by the majority of the world’s sovereign states and their populations. We have nothing to gain from participating in aggressive military adventurism, and that is precisely what NATO has engaged in ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the deconstruction of the Warsaw Pact. The western military alliance has now expanded numerically as well as territorially and advanced it’s troops and tanks up to the border of Russia herself, directly contradicting the public promises of George HW Bush that it would not do so and had no plans to do so in the future. Blatant and brazen lies. The United States went into ‘MAD’ mode in the 1960’s because Soviet missiles were in Cuba, less than one hundred miles away. The US/UK NATO alliance is today, less than one mile from Russian soil. The hypocrisy is rank and the provocation real.

The colonial history of many Asian and African countries is shared by Scotland. Of course not everything that happened within, and because of the British Empire was bad. But it happened and colonisation is morally wrong and unjustifiable. It has to be accounted for and made right. That can be achieved by an ethical foreign policy. A new nation state needs a new start, karmically speaking. The goodwill that would be generated from such an honest and sincere effort, would have ripple effects throughout our social and economic space and be a significant driver in the years that immediately follow our independence.

Let’s use our freedom wisely and use our diplomatic resources diplomatically, rather than as cover for militarism disguised as moderating and democratising countries that were all to often once coloured colonial red on the world map. Liberalism at home is one thing but to construct one’s foreign policy on exporting it, is a recipe for disaster. It is for others to determine how to live their lives in their own countries, not for us. It is for us to use our foreign policy to deal with these countries according to our values. Dealing with people and nations need not mean converting them to our social, religious and moral values. Live and let live would not be an inappropriate mantra to keep in mind at our new, clean, independent and sovereign Foreign and Defence Departments.

All the best for now,
Appreciatively,

@k_el_ph

Posted by: Steve D Keith | Feb 17, 2019 10:55:35 PM | 93

Vk@80

I agree WWII was largely a continuation of WWI.

In hindsight it was a war fought to expand Communism. Japan and Germany were the patsies, along with citizens of Britain outside the City if London.

The subsequent War on Communism known as the Cold War was to turn the West Fascist, yet under another name. Mussolinis Corporatism was looked on favorably by many Capitalists. Stalin and Mao were used to stifle socialism whose popularity had taken hold in Europe and the US.

Most people forget that many of those that built and operated the Nazi system remained free and assimilated in the West to spread their ideas and practices. Operation Paperclip brought a great many scientists to the US. Guys like Krupp and Schacht were let loose to influence business and economics leaders

By the end of the 80’s Fascism aka neoliberalism in the US and UK had taken hold, socialism was doomed. The crypto fascist EU inspired by Hitlers idea of a European New Order was nearing a reality , which would crush socialism there. China and Russias party elite were convinced to join the neoliberal party. China chose to keep its socialist name, the Soviet Union chose a different path. By 1991 Bush whose family helped the Nazis was able to declare a NWO on 9/11

I imagine there is still some jockeying for position among the different factions on the final phase. Control over the citizens seems to be the main priority and that was the purpose of the GWOT, along with mopping up some countries not going along like Yugoslavia-done Iraq-done, Afghanistan-done, Iran-pending, Syria-half done, Libya-done, Venezuela-half done, North Korea-pending.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 17, 2019 11:00:01 PM | 94

One deeply underrated evil act by Elliot Abrams was his oppositional campaign against breastfeeding and for forumula in the global south on behalf of Nestle in the 1980s, which caused untold-of numbers of deaths. That and the Vlocker decision to rise interest rates killed 70 million children under 5 within a 12 year period. A direct participant in capitalism's greatest genocide in the imposition of neoliberalism. https://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/06/magazine/the-controversy-over-infant-formula.html

Posted by: Anne Jaclard | Feb 18, 2019 12:51:17 AM | 95

@ Pft
The Bolshevik revolution and subsequent development of Stalins /Soviet Industry and Hitlers rise to power and rebuilding of Germany , and Maos victory over the Nationalists and Chinas economic development post-Mao , were all made possible by transfers of capital and technology from Western elites. This is not admitted.
Yes, yes, yes, Hitler was allowed to rise because his rhetoric was strong enough to suit the propaganda.. propaganda brought American into both WWI and WWII, interestingly, it was British Propaganda.. conducted through the secret services.


@ 69, @80, @82
WWI and WWII were both contrived by France and England, because Germany had good relations and near control over the oil rich Ottoman empire. It all began in 1896 (when the bankers financed Hertlz's hate campaign, to redirect it to herd the Eastern European Jew into what is now Israel. There was a treaty between Russia and France singed 1896 designed to force Russia to keep military pressure on Germany (deprive them of the oil), in 1897 the USA, France and England agreed to isolate, contain and destroy Germany, it took 15 years but they got the job done. The containment of, and set up of Germany, over those years is laid out in Roland Greene User's Pan Germanism (copyright 1913, 1914) and confirmed in ex Kaiser Wilhelm, III book, in his own words in 1922..
Everyone was afraid Germany would get the oil the Zionist had set their mind to take from the Ottomans.

Posted by: snake | Feb 18, 2019 12:52:58 AM | 96

@ Anne Jaclard #95

What a perfect vermin! No wonder Trump appointed him - birds of a feather flock together.

I made a search and found another story about this long-running horror story. Unfortunately, a recent one.

When Trump administration officials opposed a WHO breast-feeding resolution, they followed a long history of policymakers listening to baby-formula manufacturers. Jul 10, 2018

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 18, 2019 1:47:08 AM | 97

The "Re-education" of Germany

To understand World War II, it is necessary to understand World War I, for the second conflict was a tragic continuation of the first

And to understand World War I, one must understand the anti-German hysteria that made it possible, and look beyond the Hollywood images and comic book presentations of either war to comprehend how and why the utter ruination of this ancient land with its historically profound influence on European culture occurred, and how a rich powerful nation that enjoyed a positive, even glowing image at the beginning of the 20th century would be cut off at the knees, and relegated to a stature of relative unimportance today

Contrary to popular fiction, long before Germany became a nation, even before the dark ages, she had a more peaceful, less aggressive history than her European neighbors, and was the principal participant in less than a quarter of the wars of England, Spain, Russia or France

By 1914, the young German nation had enjoyed 43 years of peace while other European nations were embroiled in, or starting, various global conflicts

At the dawn of the 20th century the German empire was well respected around the world, but this all changed almost overnight

The violent anti-German assault was initiated by propagandists representing special interests in Great Britain a decade before World War I even broke out

It changed the image of Germany forever. A pariah was formed in the shape of the loathsome Hun, and the zealous efforts to reinforce that image in words, music and art, continued long after the war was over, branding Germany and her people absolutely repugnant in every corner of the world. Probably no other ethnic group had ever been so quickly, so professionally and so intensely dehumanized

World War One, the cultural equivalent of the Black Death, killed the seed of a whole generation. The vindictive Treaty of Versailles exposed Germany to reparations she could never repay without exposing her own people to even more suffering and death

The spitefulness, greedy motives and short-sightedness of the “peace” terms would have terrible effects in the near future

2,000,000 German soldiers were killed in the first World War, 100,000 others were missing and presumed dead, and 4,814,557 were wounded, amounting to 9 to 14 percent of Germany’s pre-war population

In the conflict millions of others died due to starvation from Britain’s inhumane hunger blockade which remained in effect even after the war’s end to further punish Germany

One-armed, one-legged, one-eyed and no-eyed men, men with noses or mouths torn off, and men with only half a face stood begging for food. Many lost homes as a result of the German land theft at Versailles and others lost their families.

In Germany there was simmering resentment at the humiliation imposed on her. Beyond all of this there was overwhelming injustice in the fact that she was held solely responsible for the entire conflict and was made to suffer twice, from the toll of the war itself and from the vengefulness and avarice of the victors, who had been just as responsible for the war, if not more so, than Germany

By the end of World War II, the destruction of Germany was nearly complete. Millions more of her people were lost, both during and after the war: five times as many Germans, both civilians and soldiers, died in the first year after the war than died during the course of the entire war, and they lost their lives directly at the hands of others as a result of revenge policies: rape, expulsion, murder, forced “atonement” marches, freezing, slave labor and starvation. Many more were left with lasting physical damage from the shocking post-war brutality visited upon them

It was amidst millions of dazed, homeless people, and upon the ruins of hundreds of medievel cities, murdered German prisoners of war, raped German women, starving German children and wandering orphans, that the victors performed the coup de grace: Following unconditional surrender, Germany was immediately partitioned into four isolated occupation zones, further intensifying its incapacitation and readying it for a controversial, methodically developed and skillfully applied program of psychological assault, innocuously labeled “re-education”

This mass brain-washing program was geared to enforce the rejection of everything that had thus far constituted the national German identity, as well as any pride in German cultural, intellectual or spiritual heritage

This intense campaign structured a “new Germany” to have purely “American values”, and it allowed to Germany only a history which began in 1945 with her defeat, relegating all which had come before, as unworthy of remembrance

This program, so psychologically ruthless that it did not allow people to grieve their own losses or honor their fallen,was so successful that over 70 years later, words such as “Vaterland” or “Volk” remain dirty words to the modern German who has been convinced that Germany was actually “liberated” in 1945 by those very forces who worked for nothing less than her total destruction

It does not disturb the modern German that his homeland was bombed into rubble, that millions of surrendered German prisoners of war were murdered through intentional neglect, that millions of refugees were created and then abused, as they attempted to flee violent, rampaging communist hordes who stole their homes and raped their grandmothers.

However it does make some of them uncomfortable to realize that their families, as civilians, were intentionally burned alive in violent, unnecessary, residential fire bombings, or fiendishly drowned by the thousands when dams were calculatingly destroyed or shot when they were running for their lives.

They have been “re-educated” to be so deeply shamed that they have allowed collective guilt to be bestowed upon themselves and their children and their grandchildren, accepting their nation’s future as one clad in a hair shirt of perpetual atonement for actions they had nothing to do with!

The attack on German culture itself, which began in World War One with the manufacturing of the loathsome Hun, was re-incarnated by the post World War II Allied “re-education” teams, in order to create the self-hating German

In the utter absence of national pride, there is fervent persecution of any who dare challenge this abysmal, degenerate, masochistic trend

The Allied foreign policy was for victory at any cost, even at the cost of destroying its own traditional values and culture, and if need be, destroying the planet itself. Yet it is becoming increasingly more difficult to question the necessity and wisdom of that conflict.

Indeed, the event we call World War Two is fast becoming off limits to further debate, closer scrutiny or re-evaluation, and the very word “revision” has been demonized rather than welcomed as part of those stimulating intellectual activities which have traditionally taken place after every other conflict in human history

The effort to search for truth and accurately define human events for posterity have been narrowed in scope in regards to this conflict. In a good part of the world, legislation restricts free speech by limiting discussion of this major historical event to the official or “acceptable” version and anything beyond that is potentially criminal to discuss and punishable by prison, surely not a trend indicative of the cherished “democratic values” the victors supposedly intended.

Posted by: roberto | Feb 18, 2019 2:26:30 AM | 98

roberto | Feb 18, 2019 2:26:30 AM | 98

'...: five times as many Germans, both civilians and soldiers, died in the first year after the war than died during the course of the entire war, and they lost their lives directly at the hands of others as a result of revenge policies:...'

Source, pretty please?

Posted by: Hmpf | Feb 18, 2019 3:59:30 AM | 99

Posted by: roberto | Feb 18, 2019 2:26:30 AM | 98

Nice attempt at rewriting history.

Soon after its foundation in 1870, Germany took part in the Scramble for Africa that started in 1881.
Germany was late in industrialisation and imperialism, you can start telling the story from here.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 18, 2019 4:04:55 AM | 100

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