Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 16, 2019
The Deep Nation Of Russia

In a newly published essay, a close aide to the Russian President Vladimir Putin describes the system of governance in Russia. It stands in contrast to the usual 'western' view of the 'autocratic' Russian state.

U.S. media often depict Russia as a top-down state, run at the whims of one man. They cite western paid scholars to support that position. One example is this column in Friday's Washington Post:

Why Russia no longer regrets its invasion of Afghanistan
Putin is reassessing history to make the case for adventures abroad.

On February 15 1989 the last soldiers of the Soviet army left Afghanistan. Later that year the Congress of People’s Deputies, the elected parliament of the USSR, passed a resolution that condemned the war:

Now, however, the Russian government is considering reversing this earlier verdict, with the Duma set to approve a resolution officially reevaluating the intervention as one that took place within the bounds of international law and in the interests of the U.S.S.R.

The authors ascribe the move to the Russian president and claim that he makes it to justify Russia's engagements in current wars:

The Kremlin is rewriting history to retrospectively justify intervention in countries such as Ukraine and Syria as it seeks to regain its status as a global power.

To avoid domestic opposition, [Moscow] cannot allow the public to perceive Syria through the prism of the Afghan experience. Putin and his allies have decided to tackle this problem head-on by reinterpreting that experience.

That is why perhaps Putin, and Russian lawmakers, are marking the poignant anniversary of the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan by attempting to ascribe meaning to that long-lost meaningless war.

The columns is typical for the negative depiction of Russia, and its elected leader. Each and every move in the bowels of the Russian Federation is, without evidence, ascribed to its president and his always nefarious motives.

It is also completely wrong. The new resolution it muses about never came to a vote:

Most anticipated the Duma’s Afghan bill would re-appear for final consideration earlier this week, signed by Mr Putin in time for today’s anniversary. Unexpectedly, however, the bill disappeared from view at the last minute, with insiders citing a lack of agreement of a final draft.

On Friday [its author], Frants Klintsevich confirmed to The Independent that his initiative had failed to receive “necessary backing”. He says drafting problems were to blame, and that the bill had been sent back for amendments. It “might, or might not” be resurrected, he added: “We will continue to fight for it. I don’t know if we will be successful.”

The resolution, which the Washington Post authors claim is motivated by Putin's need to justify current interventions, was not pushed by Putin at all. It was the Kremlin that stopped it. How does that fit to the presumed motives they muse about?

The 'western' view of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the "long-lost meaningless war", is that it was the catastrophic for the Soviet Union and led to its demise (pdf). That view is wrong. The war was neither meaningless, nor lost.

The war was seen as strategically necessary to keep fundamentalist Islamists, financed by the United States, from penetrating the southern republics of the Soviet Union. When the Soviet army pulled out of Afghanistan it left a well equipped and capable Afghan army behind. The Afghan government was able to resist its U.S. financed enemies for three more years. It fell apart only after financial support from Russia ended.

In size and relative cost the Afghan war, and its domestic impact in the Soviet Union, was only a third of the size and impact of the U.S. war in Vietnam. The Vietnam war did not destroy the United States and the Soviet war in Afghanistan did not destroy the Soviet Union. The reasons for its demise were ideological inflexibility and a leadership crisis.

Those problems have now been solved.

Last Monday Vladislav Surkov, a close aid to Putin, published a fundamental essay about the nature of governance of Russia:

Putin’s Lasting State

The intentionally provocative essay is central to understand what motivates the new Russia and how and why it functions so well (when compared to earlier times).


Vladislav Surkov – bigger

“It only seems that we have a choice.” is its first sentence. The illusion of having a choice is only a trick of the western way of life and western democracy, writes Surkov. After the social and economic catastrophe of the 1990s, Russia became disinterested in such a system. In consequence:

Russia stopped collapsing, started to recover and returned to its natural and its only possible condition: that of a great and growing community of nations that gathers lands. It is not a humble role that world history has assigned to our country, and it does not allow us to exit the world stage or to remain silent among the community of nations; it does not promise us rest and it predetermines the difficult character of our governance.

Russia has found a new system of governance, says Surkov. But it is not yet up to its full capacity:

Putin’s large-scale political machine is only now revving up and getting ready for long, difficult and interesting work. Its engagement at full power is still far ahead, and many years from now Russia will still be the government of Putin, just as contemporary France still calls itself the Fifth Republic of de Gaulle, …

He points out how Russia early on (see Putin's 2007 speech in Munich) warned of the dangers of the U.S. led globalization and liberalization that tries to do away with the nation state.

His description of the 'western' system of governance is to the point:

Nobody believes any more in the good intentions of public politicians. They are envied and are therefore considered corrupt, shrewd, or simply scoundrels. Popular political serials, such as “The Boss” and “The House of Cards,” paint correspondingly murky scenes of the establishment’s day-to-day.

A scoundrel must not be allowed to go too far for the simple reason that he is a scoundrel. But when all around you (we surmise) there are only scoundrels, one is forced to use scoundrels to restrain other scoundrels. As one pounds out a wedge using another wedge, one dislodges a scoundrel using another scoundrel… There is a wide choice of scoundrels and obfuscated rules designed to make their battles result in something like a tie. This is how a beneficial system of checks and balances comes about—a dynamic equilibrium of villainy, a balance of avarice, a harmony of swindles. But if someone forgets that this is just a game and starts to behave disharmoniously, the ever-vigilant deep state hurries to the rescue and an invisible hand drags the apostate down into the murky depths.

In contrast to the western system, Russia does not have a deep state. Its governance is out in the open, not necessarily pretty, but everyone can see it. There is no deep state in Russia, says Surkov, there is instead a deep nation:

With its gigantic mass the deep nation creates an insurmountable force of cultural gravitation which unites the nation and drags and pins down to earth (to the native land) the elite when it periodically attempts to soar above it in a cosmopolitan fashion.

Vladimir Putin is trusted with leading Russia's deep nation because he listens to it:

The ability to hear and to understand the nation, to see all the way through it, through its entire depth, and to act accordingly—that is the unique and most important virtue of Putin’s government. It is adequate for the needs of the people, it follows the same course with it, and this means that it is not subject to destructive overloads from history’s countercurrents. This makes it effective and long-lasting.

This unique Russian system makes it superior:

The contemporary model of the Russian state starts with trust and relies on trust. This is its main distinction from the Western model, which cultivates mistrust and criticism. And this is the source of its power.

Surkov predicts that it will have a great future:

Our new state will have a long and glorious history in this new century. It will not break. It will act on its own, winning and retaining prize-winning spots in the highest league of geopolitical struggle. Sooner or later everyone will be forced to come to terms with this—including all those who currently demand that Russia “change its behavior.” Because it only seems as if they have a choice.

Putin will have signed off the essay before it was published. It is, like his Munich speech, a public challenge to the western ruling class. "Wake up," it says. "Don't rely on those dimwits who ascribe this or that superficial motive to us. This all goes much deeper."

The western Russia analysts will write heaps of bad articles about the Surkov essay. They will probably claim that it shows that Putin has  delusions of grandeur. I for one read it as a honest description of Russia's natural state.

We thankfully do not have to rely on the 'experts'. Those who want to understand Russia can read the essay themselves.

Comments

Again to Grieved @ 65 and others:
2)@7 Ellis – “…that of a great and growing community of nations that gathers lands.”
The way I interpret this is by thinking back on what I remember Putin has said in this area. I think the message would be that as after the largeness of the USSR had ‘shrunk’ to the still enormous size of the Russian Federation, where some ‘lands’ now are outside of it, the ‘gathering’ of those would be the restoration of contacts, brotherly contacts if you like, between the lands of the former USSR and Russia as she now is. Not in terms of re-acquisition, but in terms of treaties and trade relationships. More particularly that than a global statement, I think, in this wording. Putin has repeatedly stressed how huge Russia as now constituted is, and that he doesn’t wish to re-acquire Ukraine or indeed any other land mass than the one his people presently inhabit – it is big enough! [An exception was made for Crimea as a practical extension whose populace participated in that re-nationalization. The need was present for both ‘deep’ entities, so they asserted their union as rapidly as possible. The difficult case of Donbass was and is still to be hopefully kept as an important balancing ‘spirit’ within Ukraine as a deep nation entity to have ties to Russia but not be incorporated in it.]

Posted by: juliania | Feb 17 2019 17:51 utc | 101

Montreal @ 95
I would very much doubt that he keeps wealth outside Russia. Given the theme of this discussion, this is an important distinction. The Panama Papers showed, for example, that Poroshenko has stashed obscene sums of money, presumably looted from Ukraine, in the Caribbean (as have thousands of Russians), so when the time for looting is over, they can go and live the life of rich men in the West
I don’t think the point of stashing their money outside Russia (or China whose politically conneted family members also stash much dinero in tax havens) is because they will someday want to live outside Russia when the time for looting is over. The ultra wealthy can come and go as they please anyway (unless they are political prisoners).
You see, wealthy people especially in developing countries have two main reasons to stash money offshore. 1. Avoid income and wealth taxes at home
2. Further enrich themselves in the safest assets possible. Euro/dollar dominated assets for instance.
This neatly segues into Trump too. Some of the safest assets possible with great historical appreciation is NYC real estate. Trump Organisation has feasted on laundered Russian money for decades.
Interesting that you use Poroshenko as an example. Why not mention Yukovich too and show objectivity in your comment? Lol
If you haven’t done so, you might wish to read Piketty on the devastating impact of the immense amount of Russian wealth stashed offshore during the Putin era and then tell me all about Putin’s great idealism for helping the average Russian to attain a better standard of living.
Those two concepts are dissonant.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 17 2019 17:57 utc | 102

@83 quietrebel… no, i don’t agree with that, but i don’t recall donkeytale saying that!
it’s tricky being objective.. we all have our unique views, but most of it is subjective in nature.. as i said before, i felt the piece by surkov was very idealistic…i suggested reading the link fiona shared by dugin which was a type of rebuttal to surkox’s views… surkovs article read like some religious treaty to me.. it is good for someone who likes to live by faith alone, but i didn’t feel it was very objective or realisitc… once putin is gone, russia will have to sort out where it is going in a collective sense and the threat from the usa-uk and etc will continue to exist..talk of ‘deep nation’ is fun, but the life of russia and russians will be worked out over the course of time.. in fact, if we could get beyond the concept of nationhood – and not go the route of globalism that is really the doctrine of the corporations – neoliberalism – we might be able to figure out a way to live on the planet with one another without screwing over or finding a reason to hate others… i realize it is a tall task made difficult by those predators only interested in screwing over the planet..
obviously i am idealistic too!! i can relate to surkovs views in that regard, but i am not foolish enough to not recognize idealism when i read it!! cheers – james

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 17:59 utc | 103

Corection. Yukovich = Yanukovych.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 17 2019 17:59 utc | 104

I did go and read the Dugin article, and I disagree with its premise that after Putin, the ‘compromise’ he has instituted will collapse. It is really up to Russians whether that will happen or not. I see it as similar to FDR’s challenge to the oligarchs when the New Deal came about – in Russia that is an ongoing situation at present, but as with the US, indeed the situtation depends on many factors, opposition by enemies of the deep nation, if you will. Nothing is carved in stone, but indeed it is a New Deal, and it is up to the Russians to do better than the US in this regard. Treasure what you have, Russians, and fight to keep it!

Posted by: juliania | Feb 17 2019 18:09 utc | 105

“This unique Russian system makes it superior:
The contemporary model of the Russian state starts with trust and relies on trust. This is its main distinction from the Western model, which cultivates mistrust and criticism. And this is the source of its power.”
This is propagandist picture, the reality is less bright for sure, but not THAT bleak. As we are all to well aware, trust is something that can be earn or inculcated by other means. However, it a government wants to be trusted, it helps to focus on what people want.
For example, after the oil prices declined from 90-100 range to 40-ties with subsequent oscillation — now ca. 55 (Brent and Urals ca. 65), Putin responded with almost terrifying decisiveness. Rubble depreciated by factor 2 or more, in line with oil. Imports were slashed correspondingly. Positive balance of trade was maintained. A huge chunk of foreign reserves was pulled back and Russian debt was sharply reduced. Real incomes were allowed to drop, to meagerly rise afterwards. HOWEVER, as a commentator noted very briefly, the employment did not drop, and thus the number of people severely affected was small. There was a drop in construction, but a rise in agriculture and to lesser extend, manufacturing. Russia engaged in “import substitution”. Russian lost growth of incomes but preserved stability, and the majority preferred it that way: oil crisis in an oil country must foster an economic crisis, so the choice was for some minority to loose a lot or everybody loosing a little.
These choices perplexed observers in Western media. Just because it is popular, Russia decreased free trade, competition and “mobility of labour” that The Economist tirelessly advocates. And forget about “free financial markets”. But what about “necessary painful reforms”?
Actually, being a budget freak, Putin does have painful stuff on the agenda. Russia amassed reserves during “fat years”, but with oil contributing much less to the budget, some taxes have to go up and some benefits have to go down. Road tolls were introduced and truckers rebelled. Retirement age was increased and the popularity of Putin dropped. However, in each case the government modulated the “reforms” with concessions, and of course, it keeps making the case why the reforms are needed, so truckers are still trucking, and the retirement reforms were not entirely abandoned. The popularity is still quite healthy, if not in the stratosphere.
In other words, Putin’s government is very cautious and strategic about “necessary painful” stuff that Western politicians dish quite freely. What insanity overtook them to keep pushing for “ever more free trade”? Or foreign interventions — where are the crowds of Britons of France being jubilant that a few countries got destroyed and refugees are flooding in, documenting the superiority of the economic/political system, voting with their legs?
But what about Putin’s own interventions? Again, we can see strategic and careful approach. In the case of Crimea, ca. 80% are glad that it was absorbed by Russia, and in Crimea itself the percentage may be higher. In the case of Syria, Russia made a huge effort to keep costs down, both in treasure and blood, and effects up, Syrians being trained to do the bulk of heavy lifting, and ACTUALLY doing that — unlike hapless Afghan army etc.
Lastly, the deep state. In Russian there is a newish word “siloviki” = “people of strength/power”, and they are definitely a material phenomenon rather than a myth. The main difference is that in the West, the smart people work for financial services, or big pharma etc., and intellectually, the “deep state” is very, very mediocre, the casting of The Ministry of Silly Walks.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 17 2019 18:10 utc | 106

Karlof1 and Grieved – you both said it so much more eloquently and specifically than I did – I bow to your combined excellence! (b, feel free to expunge my redundant posts.)

Posted by: juliania | Feb 17 2019 18:16 utc | 107

@106 juliania… thanks for your posts! i don’t remember all of what dugin said – i did agree with him about surkovs post in many respects though… if dugin said something to the effect of what you say ” after Putin, the ‘compromise’ he has instituted will collapse.” – i am not so sure of that.. maybe eventually, but i don’t know about that..

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 18:26 utc | 108

Putinism sounds a lot like Erdogan’s MB-infused nationalism. Erdogan propagandists/apologists conflate the people’s interests and Erdogan’s policies/actions to the point that they are essentially the same. Erdogan thus embodies the people and critics are perceived as traitors.
Kurov hints at an institutional mechanism(s) that:

1) ensures Putinism remains connected to the people/people’s interests, and
2) is able to be adoptable by other countries.

Looking forward to details of this mechanism that might elevate Kurov’s Deep Putin(tm) from propaganda to political model.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 17 2019 18:27 utc | 109

@107 piotr… thanks for your post.. interesting and informative as always!

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 18:29 utc | 110

Surkov

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 17 2019 18:32 utc | 111

Piotr Berman @107
So you’re saying that Putinism is a philosophical approach to governance that doesn’t have (or has no need for) institutional mechanism(s) for correctness and longevity?
It is simply “the Putin way”?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 17 2019 18:42 utc | 112

Jackrabbit above, I would answer your question (apologies Piotr), by referring to the link to the Yeltsin speech on the previous page by Peter AU 1. I was impressed that Yeltsin continually deferred to the election of the Duma that had taken place at the new millenium as clearly representing the will of the Russian people for a new beginning with new energies in play. To me this indicates that while Putin may have represented to him the best qualified leader, he also represented a leader with a cohort of other new political representatives significantly different from what had come before, which had been in their very recent memory, terrible. Putin did not stand alone then, so it is more likely that he has more support in the present government as so many of his projects have begun to bear fruit and are supported by the people at large.
In other words, he is no Jimmy Carter. And although he may seem to outsiders to be promulgating ‘the Putin way’, he is not alone.
I recommend that Yeltsin speech, and thank Peter for linking to it.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 17 2019 19:07 utc | 113

@james
Thinking back on it, the Nazi/Trump part of the comment may not have been part of donkeytale’s comment when you made your post. If that was the case, I apologize.

Posted by: QuietRebel | Feb 17 2019 19:07 utc | 114

@115 quietrebel… no problem! all the best!

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 19:18 utc | 115

It’s my understanding that the government of Afghanistan requested help from Russia, much like Syria did. That it wasn’t an invasion in the sense that western media describes it. The same cannot be said of the US presence which was an invasion, complete with its own replacement leadership under the guise of defeating terrorism.

Posted by: CD Waller | Feb 17 2019 19:40 utc | 116

Piotr Berman @107
So you’re saying that Putinism is a philosophical approach to governance that doesn’t have (or has no need for) institutional mechanism(s) for correctness and longevity? Jackrabbit | Feb 17, 2019 1:42:39 PM
I am not a great believer in “philosophical approaches”. More precisely, you can design a mechanism that will surely work badly, but you cannot assure good outcomes with a “mechanism”. US constitution is pretty good, but if the Congress members, President etc. choose to be beholden to special interests and the population tolerates it, then hard to see how it could be improved with, say, proportional representation, ban on moving from key political and administrative position to lucrative posts in private sector etc.
=============
Someone compared Putin to Erdogan. One big difference is that Putin is very careful, plans long term and gets approval from a decisive majority, using “dirty tricks” like actually paying attention to what people want. Erdogan gets 50% of popular support and when in doubt, increases repressions, censorship etc. If you compare with Turkey, China, etc., the hand of the state in Russia is pretty light, opposition minded people may have newspapers, websites, if demonstrations are “illegal” the demonstrators are released quickly etc. If you are a policeman or a prison guard in Russia who killed a person, the chances of getting seriously sentenced are much higher than in USA where those professions enjoy considerable impunity — which is used.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 17 2019 20:29 utc | 117

‘Why Russia no longer regrets its invasion of Afghanistan’
FYI russia nver ‘invaded’ afghanistan! it was asked to help by the legit govt in Kabul

Posted by: brian | Feb 17 2019 20:46 utc | 118

FWIW, I didn’t see donkeytale’s invocation of the Nazis as a comparison, direct or otherwise, to either Trump or Putin. He merely pointed out that every totalitarian (or painted that way in the West) regime has had effective propaganda and very compelling authors of propaganda.

Posted by: Mike | Feb 17 2019 20:47 utc | 119

@120 / 92 mike… hi mike.. i enjoyed reading your comments on both posts! thanks for chiming in.. you might enjoy reading the surkov and dugin articles for more insight into it all, but then – maybe you don’t have to either!

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 21:20 utc | 120

@118 piotr… good comparison between putin and erdogan.. i agree with you on that too.. funny how the west wants badly to sidle up to erdogan, but always want to paint putin as dictator in command… it is kind of the opposite as you point out.. i liked your description of the differences in russia and usa with regard to a hypothetical policemen / prison guard as well.. i recently read some of the book mentioned here a few weeks ago – the new jim crow – by michelle alexander.. i think your position is accurate..

Posted by: james | Feb 17 2019 21:24 utc | 121

It’s a shame that they “apologised” to begin with. They were wrong to have ever done so. The recent dialogue over this war by the US media laughing at Trump and telling him off for calling the Mujahideen terrorists (which they were) as opposed to “freedom fighters” has amazingly been phrased as “Trump’s comments aren’t in line with what the US believed at the time,” as opposed to citing actual opinion, ie the US’s opinion is “reality” on every given event regardless of the facts. By far the worst part of this is that I don’t even think that the individual journos are purposefully propagandising the public, they actually believe that the US tells the truth. Similarly, the New York Times intelligence editors wrote that they learn the most from the official DNI presentation meetings. Aren’t reporters supposed to go beyond what the government tells them? Sad, so sad….

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Feb 17 2019 21:26 utc | 122

It is highly unlikely Putin has some kind of enormous fortune hidden in some kind of tax haven.
First, because the USA, albeit in decline, is still the undisputed financial superpower. Even Russian banks still bow the Americans:
Russia’s Gazprombank freezes accounts of Venezuela’s PDVSA: source
It is difficult to substitute the reigning financial superpower because a financial architecture is vast and complex: you have the softwares, the domain of the seas, the fiber optics web, know-how, power of incumbency etc. etc. In the above case, the Russian bank froze PDVSA’s account because it was afraid of American sanctions. And the Americans can sanction Russian banks for the simple reason Russian banks are still largely attached to the international financial architecture.
If Putin was really hiding some insurmountable amount of money (the official theory states US$ 100 billion, which would make him, at the time the story first arose, the richest man in the world), even if it was in a Russian bank, he wouldn’t go very far, as the American would’ve caught him quickly. Switzerland would be his best chance, but even the Swiss have recently shown to break when the Americans press hard enough.
Second, this “US$ 100 billion” fortune story that arises in the internet from time to time is practically identical to the now known fake news against Fidel Castro during the Cold War times. In that story, Fidel Castro allegedly had millions stached in Switzerland. The money, obviously, was never found; Castro died in a very modest house in Havana, in november 2016. One of her daughers who fled to the USA (she’s still there, living in Florida) never told any bombastic story about stravagant life-styles that were frequently spread in the American newspapers. You can still search for these stories in the internet, many Americans still believe in them.
So, we have the identical diffamation modus operandi: two almost identical stories, 50 years appart. The only thing in common: the CIA (NSA).
Third, we have a unique window of observation with the episode of the Panama Papers.
The Panama Papers came out guns blazing: whole front pages on the likes of the Guardian, front page on the NYT, WaPo etc. etc. The main fish? A Russian violoncellist who was friend of an oligarch who the Western Kreminologists claimed was of “Putin’s circle”. The musician had US$ 1 billion in his secret account.
The story didn’t really caught up in the Western public, and Panama Papers disappeared with the same speed it arose.
Panama is USA backyard. No one breaths there without the NSA knowing. The most probable was that an NSA fake whistleblower used this group of well-intentioned, but naive journalists as useful idiots in order to catch Putin.
Now, there are two serious hypothesis about this episode:
1) either the USA doesn’t have the time and resources to dig up real dirt on Putin, so they have to come up with half-baked propaganda. Or
2) Putin really doesn’t have any secret, multibillionaire, account. So, they have to come up with fake stories.
I’m not saying Putin is not rich. It comes with the job: you’re powerful, you make contacts, you develop a patronage web. Plus, he’ll have all those very generous pension and medical plans elected politicians from capitalist countries receive. So, yes, he won’t have to beg for food or bargain to buy a new car when he retires. But to say he has US$ 100 billion somewhere and that he engages on secret oligarch parties full of blackjack and hookers is on another level — propaganda level.

Posted by: vk | Feb 17 2019 22:34 utc | 123

I am surprised by the superlatives attached to Surkov’s text. It really doesn’t say much, and certainly nothing new and nothing concrete.
It states that western democracy is a paravan for a deep state which, as defined by him, does not exist in Russia. It states that the Russian state is based on trust in the leader and it states that there is a “deep nation” or “people”. It states that there is a lot of work ahead (to achieve what? ) and it states that it is going to be a great and everlasting state.
I have learned absolutely nothing from this text, but I have a lot of questions. For example, what is the “deep nation” or “deep people”. As the author does not tell us, that means nothing really. It sounds like pure nationalism – rings, but is hallow. The author does not say a single word about the system – economic, political, social in which this trust (in the leader) exists, now under Putin, and will perpetuate.
We can agree that trust is necessary and crucial, but so is a critical minded citizenry which challenges authority. Many nations in history and in the immediate past trusted their leaders who led them into criminal wars very harmful to others, themselves and to all of us really.
Putin is, in my view, a very important political figure on the international stage and the only statesman in the 21st century so far. He, indeed, can be trusted not to be rash as we have seen over and over again. Internally, however, I can not say. I simply don’t know much about Russia. I do know Russians and people who have lived in Russia for a long time who have a lot of serious criticisms. That’s why they no longer live there This is where Surkov’s text could have been relevant. I’m afraid we are engaged in a much ado about nothing.

Posted by: JB | Feb 17 2019 22:35 utc | 124

Not only were the Russians invited – even beseeched – into Afghanistan, the locals still remember them with great fondness and respect. Andre Vltchek took a drive through that country in 2017 and reported that very fact:
Andre Vltchek: On the road in Afghanistan – Lies, legends and myths

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 17 2019 22:51 utc | 125

Vk@124
You raise some good points.
I have always wondered why there was so little dirt on Putin, and what I came up with as a possibility is Putin is a card carrying member of the Global Elite. Like Trump he is not exactly what he seems
We know he returned to Russia from East Germany sometime after the wall fell. Likely making many western contacts. He went to work for his mentor, the Mayor of St Petersburg (Sobchak) who also coauthored the Constition written with the help US neoliberals. In his time there he certainly ran into the liked of Browder since he approved all contracts with western firms. His boss went into exile over corruption charges during the Yeltsin years. Then US puppet Yeltsin takes him under his wings, and he ends up in charge of the KGB. When Yeltsin steps down Putin takes over. Russian people are like “Putin who”. Then we have the apartment bombings some say were false flags. Putin gets to show the people he is a tough and strong leader. Then elections are held and he wins. He allows Sobchak to return from exile to Russia but his plane crashes on arrival. Dead men tell no tales. Seems a very lucky man
Putin has shown himself to be Pro West and favors neoliberal economics. He is also a philo-Israeli. Maybe this conflict is for show. Leaders need enemies to maintain support, especially when you do stuff like cut pensions.
As for Venezuela having their accounts frozen, they owe a lot of money to Russia. A 100 million payment is coming due. Russia wants to get paid.
Putins money. I have no idea where he keeps it. The Global Elites , Deep State and Government officials have set up a series of tax havens throughout the world. Jersey, Caymans, Panama, Cyprus, etc….just to name a few. Using high powered lawyers they set up shell companies whose owners are anonymous .
The Panama papers from my understanding are just from one firm dealing with accounts held in Panama. Thats just a drop in the bucket. I read Cyprus and Jersey have been used often by Russian money launderers. Maybe he has something stashed there. We wont ever know.
The Global Elite want to maintain their privacy. Exposing Putins riches could leave them vulnerable. Putin from his time in St Pete and as former KGB knows where a lot of skeletons lie. They dont want to open that can of worms. You should read Treasure Islands. Bit outdated due to CRS which has cracked down on the smaller fish using the tax havens, but I believe the big boys still are allowed to have their anonymous accounts even if they may not really be anonymous .
Its a way to keep other elites in line. Dont want to be exposed then play along. Another reason to believe Putin is doing just that.
This is all speculation of course, maybe he really is the Messiah as some seem to believe.

Posted by: Pft | Feb 17 2019 23:58 utc | 126

Grieved @126–
Yes, the last chapter in the Anti-Communist Crusade consists of the massive Big Lie about the USSR and Afghanistan–many within the Outlaw US Empire think Rambo-3 was based on fact, particularly the Soviet Sadism. The Truth is almost the exact opposite of the West’s propaganda as was even clear at the time for those of us who relied on different print sources and already knew not to believe the false narrative generated by the Crusade.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 18 2019 0:03 utc | 127

@124 vk… thanks.. i think your position is on the money.. it is either as you say, or @127 pft has some points of relevance too that make putin more understandable.. personally i am more inclined to read him as he seems in the media, and not believe all the bs about 100 million or whatever, stashed somewhere… that has always struck me like b.s… as you note – they never came up with the goods on castro either, in spite of all the b.s. beforehand..

Posted by: james | Feb 18 2019 1:17 utc | 128

Posted by: vk | Feb 17, 2019 5:34:14 PM | 124

Even Russian banks still bow the Americans:
Russia’s Gazprombank freezes accounts of Venezuela’s PDVSA: source

PDVSA denies it.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 18 2019 1:31 utc | 129

vk, james, pft, et al
One would have to be incredibly naive on the order of say a 3 year old or maybe Forrest Gump to believe Putin isn’t a very wealthy man who will never want for anything as long as he has billionaire cronies indebted to him politically in one way or the other.
Of course, some people must cling to their illusions, er I mean their idealism, of others no matter what. Dog knows why.
Thomas Piketty:

More generally, the Soviet disaster led to the abandon of any ambition of redistribution. Since 2001, income tax is 13%, whether your income be 1,000 roubles or 100 billion roubles. Even Reagan and Trump have not gone as far in the destruction of progressive taxation. There is no tax on inheritance in Russia, nor in the People’s Republic of China. If you want to pass on your fortune in peace in Asia, it is better to die in the ex-Communist countries and definitely not in the capitalist countries such as Taiwan, South Korea or Japan where the tax rate on inheritance on the highest estates has just risen from 50% to 55%.
But while China has succeeded in conserving a degree of control on capital outflows and private accumulation, the characteristic of Putin’s Russia is an unbounded drift into kleptocracy. Between 1993 and 2018, Russia had massive trade surpluses: approximately 10% of GDP per annum on average for 25 years, or a total in the rage of 250% of GDP (two and a half years of national production). In principle that should have enabled the accumulation of the equivalent in financial reserves. This is almost the size of the sovereign public fund accumulated by Norway under the watchful gaze of the voters. The official Russian reserves are ten times lower – barely 25% of GDP.
Where has the money gone? According to our estimates, the offshore assets alone held by wealthy Russians exceed one year of GDP, or the equivalent of the entirety of the official financial assets held by Russian households. In other words, the natural wealth of the country, (which, let it be said in passing, would have done better to remain in the ground to limit global warming) has been massively exported abroad to sustain opaque structures enabling a minority to hold huge Russian and international financial assets. These rich Russians live between London, Monaco and Moscow: some have never left Russia and control their country via offshore entities. Numerous intermediaries and Western firms have also recouped large crumbs on the way and continue to do so today in sport and the media (sometimes this is referred to as philanthropy). The extent of the misappropriation of funds has no equal in history.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 2:10 utc | 130

@ 131 donkeytale… maybe thomas piketty can ask bill browder what he did with it all? i think browder was unhappy the kleptomania wasn’t allowed to continue… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder

Posted by: james | Feb 18 2019 2:25 utc | 131

Piketty, you moron. It’s all Browder’s fault of course! He hoodwinked Putin, obviously. No wait. Putin put the screws to Browder. What a great man. Not Browder. Putin.
Indict Browder. Problem solved.
Did you know Earl Browder was the head of the Communist Party USA back in the day, James? Makes perfect sense doesnt it?
Also, Earl Weaver was once the Manager of the Baltimore Orioles. Facts are amazing things eh James?

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 2:56 utc | 132

It might be that russia has invested its surplus into massive internal
investment, like the military with projects such as the technopolis and
rebuilding its industrial base and technical expertise. I’ve read that
russia was acutely consciousness of the demonic game empire was playing
and maybe that accounts for the concentration on the military. Russia is again
a military superpower and that requires enormous expenditure and investment. For
the well-nigh impossible task of simultaneously being a servant of the people
and a servant of the supreme being, putin seems to be doing as admirable a job
as any human being is capable. He is certainly supremely intelligent, maybe a
political genius, and a decent person, but as the article points out he is
just the tip of the iceberg of the deep russian culture and spirit, honed by
centuries of suffering. Didn’t dostoevsky say that suffering was the beginning of
consciousness? This is where russia has the decadent west beaten, because obscene
wealth corrupts obscenely. Italy also seems to have found decent leadership.

Posted by: evilempire | Feb 18 2019 3:03 utc | 133

There’s a great clip at Vesti News right now, with Karen Shakhnazarov on Vladimir Soloviev’s show. It’s 12 minutes but I highly recommend it. He talks around the 6 minute mark about how Russia has not developed an economic model, and needs to get one. The US has one, China has one, Russia needs one.
This evolves into the concept that a nation has to have an IDEA of what it’s doing and where it’s going, something that it believes in. Soloviev joins in at the end with some excellent commentary too.
Russia is looking for its way forward, and the debate is open and intense throughout the country.
The clip also has the usual matter-of-fact, clear-eyed perspective on the US – hence the title of the clip by the headline-lovin’ gang at Vesti – but in the end it’s about the crucial survival value of meaning in a nation’s life, with lives being lived meaningfully, from the soul.
Top Russian Expert: American Elites Too Busy Swindling Their Own People to Fight Russo-Sino Alliance

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 18 2019 3:16 utc | 134

@133 donkey… i was aware of that… i raise the question, as i think browder is an example of what was happening in this time frame – in action… and just look how he has processed it all, or how the west has processed browder… i know.. i am supposed to side with the bully, and in this case the bully isn’t supposed to be the west… and authors like piketty are unable to ask hard questions of their own.. take yer pick…

Posted by: james | Feb 18 2019 3:23 utc | 135

evil empire @ 134
Indeed, you are correct in that Russia has increased its military spending substantially with quite impressive results in recent years.
The surplus which Piketty depicts represents private wealth built up as the result of 10% annual trade surpluses over a period of 25 years. His contention is there should be a lot more private wealth on the books in Russia as a result of this trade surplus, however the amount actually accounted for represents only 10% of the accumulation of the past quarter century.
The rest is stashed somewhere else.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 3:27 utc | 136

@ Grieved with the Vesti News link
Thanks for that. Quite interesting. I would add to your description the part where they talked about how socialism ranting was being used as the argument against calls for justice in the West
I would add that there seemed to be the view that multipolar worlds don’t exist and so it will be China unless Russia gets its shit together

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 18 2019 3:44 utc | 137

Russia Chooses Paupers as Partners, with Questionable Benefit
https://www.rand.org/blog/2019/02/russia-chooses-paupers-as-partners-with-questionable.html

Posted by: William Courtney | Feb 18 2019 3:56 utc | 138

james,
Well, there can be no doubt Amerikkkans, Euros, Asians, Middle Easterners, grifters, entrepreneurs, lumpen proles and many others of all persuasions participated in the sacking of Russia’s national wealth since the fall of the USSR. Probably even a few Canadiens took part. Lol.
Capitalust feeding frenzies of this magnitude are ugly sights to behold, like the Washington DC pig trough on a daily basis.
Russia’s is truly a global phenomenon to be sure.
Or maybe a “globalist” phenomenon is a better way to putin words.
And of course, the chart at the top of Piketty’s post is most interesting too….it shows the US equally as unequal as Russia. I’m not letting the US off the hook here in any way shape or form. But this thread is about Russia and worse exposits a demented sort of idealism by many posters about the country and its Dear Leader that is unwarranted, IMHO. Not you of course.
The heinous accumulation of Russian wealth is intertwined…leaving Russia and shunted through tax havens, laundered, anonymised and ending up invested in the West….not back home in Mother Russia….where it could lead to more economic development and opportunities for the non-oligarchs….instead of more growth in the US and West, where agin most ends up in the pockets of our own oligarchs, one Donald Trump among them.
This is a Russian Tragedy.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 3:59 utc | 139

There is an article over at russia insider that debunks the picketty report;
https://russia-insider.com/en/business/west-attacks-russia-pickettys-
overblown-claims-abour-oligarch-wealth/ri24927

Posted by: evilempire | Feb 18 2019 5:41 utc | 140

somebody @86
A very useful interview of John Helmer, an Australian journalist who began reporting from Russia in 1989.
2-14-19
John Helmer and a special, Gorilla Radio double-yolker, getting to know too much about Russia.
~52 min
As the first cracks of the Soviet Empire’s eroding iron facade opened, Australian-born author, political essayist, professor of political science, and policy advisor to presidents and prime ministers, John Helmer headed for Moscow, determined to establish what was to become the longest continuously operating foreign press bureau in the capital.
From his position as an independent of single-national, or commercial sponsorship reporter, he ventured into the country’s unpredictable, and often precarious economic transition period; a time that would see coup attempts, the undoing of international political superstar, Mikhail Gorbachev, and fall of Russia’s communist system itself. It would too usher in the tempestuous Age of the Oligarchs.
Some of John Helmer’s book titles include: ‘The Deadly Simple Mechanics of Society’, ‘Drugs and Minority Oppression’, (with Claudia Wright) ‘The Jackal’s Wedding – American Power, Arab Revolt’, ‘Grand Strategy for Small Countries, Case Studies in Transforming Weakness into Power,’ (and with Ajay Goyal) ‘Uncovering Russia’. His latest book is the newly out political and personal memoir, ‘The Man Who Knows Too Much About Russia‘.

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 18 2019 6:34 utc | 141

evilempire @ 141
Awara link to RI article
THE CASE AGAINST THOMAS PIKETTY. LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS. THE TRUE LEVEL OF INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY IN RUSSIA.

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 18 2019 7:04 utc | 142

Grieved @ 126
Great article! Thanks for posting that.

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 18 2019 7:07 utc | 143

For the real scoop on russia read Andrei Martyanov
at his Reminiscence of the Future blog:
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com

Posted by: evilempire | Feb 18 2019 9:06 utc | 144

The “Deep Nation of Russia”. An apt title.
Earlier in the thread I put up a link to Yeltsin’s speech. Putin when asked in interviews about some of the things that happened in the 90’s is exceptionally angry, yet when asked of his views on Gorbachev and Yeltsin, he says that everybody knew Russia, or the Soviet Union at that time, had to change, but nobody knew how.
Russia like China cannot be looked at in the same perspective as so called western nations, who’s politics and outlook derives from westminster.
China is east. Russia is where east meets west.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 18 2019 10:02 utc | 145

PDVSA has just denied the Reuters story:
Pdvsa desmiente falsa noticia sobre bloqueo de banco ruso
But I think my point in general stands: Russia is still vulnerable to American sanctions in the financial sector. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be working on another system and buying gold.

Posted by: vk | Feb 18 2019 12:28 utc | 146

evil empire, pogohere –
the title of this publication says it all, don’t you think?
“Russia Insider.”
I’m not into a spy vs spy vs spy tit for tat with Russian disinformation. surkov is a much better propagandist than “Russia Insider” by far. This is pablum-level stuff guys, and truly beside the point unless your point is support for far-right Russian oligarchs.
Sometimes I do wonder….nah, we’re just useful idiots is all, playing internet games for fun and frolic.
As I already stated above (and Russia Insider + Piketty did too) US/EU and Russian income inequality are more or less the same. Of course the US/EU are at a much higher level of unequal income and I’m not trying to ascribe any romantic notions about the US/EU upper class and ruling class.
The point is just because you favour Russia over the US for whatever reasoning you can detect the clear linkage between asset transfers by upper crust Russians to the upper crust financial/real estate assets in the West.
The benefits of this transfer accrue to the upper crusts in both places at the expense of the rest of us in both places. Yes, the upper classes are colluding against us all.
The real fake news is the so-called “new cold war” between beloved Russia and hated USA.
The truth is we face the same global class war as forever and you are being led astray down theroad to nowhere against your class interests when you choose one nations’ upper crust over another nations. For whatever romantic reasons.
This attitude makes no sense unless you are also a member of the far-right wing and fighting dutifully for the .001% around the globe.

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 14:10 utc | 147

Saint Putin?
Grieved’s @67:

Putin has not left a changed system but he has left a spiritual benchmark for the goodness of the state, and it is intimately bound up with the well being of the people.

Jackrabbit @76:

2) It appears that Putinism has, or will have, specific mechanisms that are meant to keep the leader in tune with the people.
I wonder if the Orthodox church is part of that mechanism, given reporting by John Helmer

V @71:

I think of Putin’s annual gathering of reporters; wherein, he sits for hours fielding questions.
He listens and answers with no notes or prompts.
That alone speaks volumes as to his character.
I know of no other world leader who has ever done this.

Pft @127:

maybe he really is the Messiah as some seem to believe.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
A description of the Orthodox view of sainthood:

The Orthodox Church has not developed a legalistic system for sainthood. Indeed, such a practice would be antithetical to Orthodox tradition of a holistic integration of doctrine and experience. Orthodoxy continues to follow the principles and conventions of the Early Church. So, how does the Orthodox Church make someone a saint? The Orthodox Church works from the premise that the Church does not make saints, but rather, only God makes saints. In this sense, the Orthodox Church’s canonization does not involve bestowing sainthood. Rather, the Church in its fullness acknowledges that one is already a saint, an understanding flowing from the theological principle that an individual acquires sainthood by theosis, living in concert with God’s grace to the extent that that person’s holiness is complete.
The prominent Greek Orthodox theologian, George Bebis, who also makes it clear that the Church’s hierarchy, especially the Ecumenical Patriarch, has a crucial role to play in safeguarding canonization from abuses, provides us with an excellent summation of the Orthodox way, a tradition that honors and observes the central role of the people in determining sainthood: “The Orthodox Church does not follow any official procedure for the ‘recognition’ of saints. Initially, the Church accepted as saints those who had suffered martyrdom for Christ. The saints are saints thanks to the grace of God, and they do not need official ecclesiastical recognition. The Christian people, reading their lives and witnessing their performance of miracles, accept and honor them as saints. St. John Chrysostom, persecuted and exiled by the civil and ecclesiastical authorities, was accepted as a saint of the Church by popular acclaim. St. Basil the Great was accepted immediately after his death as a saint of the Church by the people.”

From: Determining Sainthood: The Roman Catholic Method and the Orthodox Way

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 18 2019 16:02 utc | 148

@140 donkeytale… i agree with a lot of what you say.. i suppose the context is important too.. i had heard that it was harvard university that had come up with ””a plan”” to help russia, LOLOL!… it looks like the plan worked fairly well by the standards of western kleptomania!! i am not letting russia off the hook, but the context is a country that has completely broken down and has to rebuild itself from scratch… it would be the worst time to let the kleptomaniacs in, but that is what happened.. i think they are still working thru it.. now, maybe this piketty has commented on this too and i haven’t seen it..
it is natural for people to dream of something better.. russia since 1990 is a very new country.. how much can one expect from a 30 year old? bob dylan should have said – never trust anyone under 30, lol!! i would personally like to think russia is looking for alternatives… i like what they have done in syria and they might be able to slow down the usa destroy machine a wee bit in venezuala as they have in syria… hard to know, but the planet needs alternatives to the exceptional nations unipolar vision here.. as a consequence i am routing for russia and china, or a revamped usa-west that can incorporate more then just greed and the god of mammon..

Posted by: james | Feb 18 2019 17:03 utc | 149

James @ 150
Thanks. Coming from you that means alot. And I’m not so sure of myself as my overheated rhetoric often implies. Always open to learn and be counted among the incorrect. That’s why this blog continues to pull me in…I can always count on being corrected. Lol

Posted by: donkeytale | Feb 18 2019 18:06 utc | 150

james “or a revamped usa-west that can incorporate more then just greed and the god of mammon..”
What we have now, I think, is too ingrained, too many people who know nothing else for that to change through the systems we have that are called democracy. It will take something like the collapse of the soviet union to bring that about. That or defeat in a major war is the only way the majority will look for something different and entrenched bureaucracy will be deposed. An event that wipes the political slate clean and changes the average persons view of things, makes the average person look long and hard at what happened, from which point a fresh start can be made

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 18 2019 18:41 utc | 151

I wrote a big comment a couple days ago, and after clicking ‘post’, it was written ‘your comment has been posted’. But for some reason, my comment did not appear here (this is not the first time, by the way).
Some features of moderation, unwelcomed opinion or website error?

Posted by: alaff | Feb 18 2019 19:38 utc | 152

@153 donkey – it works like that for me too – being corrected, lol…i appreciate that.. i can say plenty of boneheaded things!
@153 peter au.. yes – some major event has to take place to change the status quo.. everything is too ingrained at present..
@154 alaff.. very little moderation here.. i doubt your post would be deleted.. that happens to others here from time to time..website error i think..

Posted by: james | Feb 18 2019 20:17 utc | 153

@138 psychohistorian – “there seemed to be the view that multipolar worlds don’t exist and so it will be China unless Russia gets its shit together”
On the off-chance you see this, I didn’t see the discussion that way. I think it definitely was a multi-polar world they were looking at, but with the lesson from life that someone will always be the natural leader in any group. China would be forced by history to be that, whether she wants it or not (and she is still deciding, they agreed).
But Karen was saying he thought Russia should try to be the leader – and I think it was an idea thrown out that lives in the realm of “dare to dream”. In other words, he wanted Russia, as it comes up with its IDEA of what it is and where it’s going, to shoot for the stars, because why not?
None of them is thinking in zero-sum terms. There’s a leader, but this doesn’t mean the others are cowed. The leader is simply that which shines the brightest.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 19 2019 2:10 utc | 154

@ Grieved with a response to my comment about his Russian video link and multipolar worlds
Thanks for your interpretation. I understand your zero-sum concept but think it is more complicated and that is what bent my perception. When I say more complicated I think I mean less understood and commonly accepted.
Does multi-polar mean multiple systems of finance or is there still one Gawd to rule them all? These folks were not discussing the world spinning in that context and I think that is what bent my perception.
Yes, I project what I want to see happen and try to see data that supports my projections. I keep forgetting that the leadership that is NOT-Western are all forced to live under the Western finance jackboot to one degree or another. This makes them strong but not necessarily opposite in many ways from what they struggle against. If the world were structured differently the leadership that would exist would reflect the potentials of the structural differences.
Maybe Russia needs a motto like the original US one that it is no longer using, E Pluribus Unum

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 19 2019 2:57 utc | 155

@157 psychohistorian
Glad I checked back. It’s an interesting question you pose – does multi-polar equate to different systems of finance, or not? I think so, yes.
Let’s look at some of the pieces of the puzzle. Russia has had a communist system, and China does have one now. In both cases the notion of public ownership by the people of important infrastructure and utilities (including money) is no stranger to the culture. Russia is still choosing its way forward. Surely it can’t fail to examine the system of China in so doing?
Russia currently has a central bank tied to the western system, but China on the other hand owns its banks. It owns the debt and can charge what interest it wants, and declare jubilee when and wherever it wants. Furthermore, it has only used its massive debt to create wealth-producing infrastructure – which results in money creation without inflation.
I think, then in your context that China is already under a different Gawd, and so is Iran and I assume Cuba and some other countries. I repeat my view that socialism is the antidote to capitalism. And when this thing we know today as “capitalism” goes away, there is no hegemonic control of finance by private banks.
I don’t know if private ownership of interest-producing debt is endemic to what we call capitalism. I’m not even sure that such a thing as capitalism even exists in reality. But what does exists is privately owned debt that squeezes extortionate compound interest out of capital, and all the myths of capitalism as being real, I think, get woven around that one fact in order simply to make it seem legitimate.
Private finance is a parasite that grows where it can. I think with socialist state ownership of debt there’s no place for it to grow. But I suspect it will always look for and find places to root. So even socialism will have to guard against it.
Personally I think that “compound interest” should be known as the enemy far more than private or public finance. Compound interest, whether privately or publicly charged, leeches away the vitality of enterprise without adding to the enterprise. Compound interest paid to private entities sucks the national treasure out of the land and delivers it into a few hands.
A modest simple interest or fee on the loan of capital should always be sufficient – there is no shortage of capital in the world anymore, and never was even in the days of kings if they had only understood the power of their governance. If it takes government to regulate this fairness of interest, so be it, but government corrupted can take it away also. So even public finance would require the litmus test of “interest on debt” to show whether the system was a fair one or not.
It’s late. I was just musing out loud. But the answer I think to your question is that different countries can easily have different systems, with different variations. The ultimate test is whether workers get to keep their earnings, except for that portion which they give as part of the social contract, and thus on balance make a positive return on their life’s work.
And this is already happening and has been. There is no one revolution in global mind that turns private finance into public, I think. Granted that while the spirit of the deep nation – or as juliania enlarged the concept over at the Saker, the “deep world” – may well move the evolution of the times, we only see the manifestations. And with these, I think your revolution gathers in stature and size, from example and adoption, throughout the world, happening at times, and in places, in pieces of the puzzle 🙂

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 19 2019 4:45 utc | 156

psychohistorian and grieved….
both russia and china are a part of the imf agreement… both of them have a responsibility to keeping their central banks a certain way dictated by imf demands… unfortunately the west under the leadership of the usa have the greatest voting rights as you can see if you check this wiki link on the matter.. until such time as the concept of developing, verses developed nation changes to reflect the strength of the chinese and russian economies – this ponzi scheme that was set up with the bretton woods agreement will continue to operate as psychohistorian says – under the jackboot of usa imperialiam in a financial sense is still fully happening…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund
check voting rights to understand how the system is skewed to favour the usa… the whole structure needs to be updated, but as you can imagine, there is huge resistance on the part of the west under the usa to restructure this ponzi scheme the west has going..

Posted by: james | Feb 19 2019 5:04 utc | 157

@ Grieved and james
Grieved wrote

Personally I think that “compound interest” should be known as the enemy far more than private or public finance.

I strongly disagree.
Please consider the power to decide what technology or social service gets funding as a greater enemy than compound interest
Please consider the power to commit to forms of technology without regard to responsibility for proper risk management (Fukushima, etc) as a greater enemy than compound interest.
Compound interest in an enslavement tool of private finance as a sick replacement for what should be humanistic social risk management.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 19 2019 5:29 utc | 158

Russia staying these US aka ‘world’ organisations -IMF- ect means they keep a foot in the door.
Not as in trying to worm their way into the good books of the US, rather as a detective keeping a foot in the door. It gives them access to meetings and so forth.
I have seen several interviews where Putin is asked this question. As usual, he answers it in a diplomatic way, but the intention comes through. I think this is one of, if not the main reason the US wants Russia out of all so called world organisations.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 19 2019 8:47 utc | 159

Nearly forgot, but the other reason for Russia to keep its foot in the doorin aka world organizations was to deflect attacks as they began.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 19 2019 9:30 utc | 160

Makes me wonder. So many people praising that article.
And for me it looks like much ado about nothing, mix of trivialities and wishful thinking, even to a degree “call for everything good and against everything bad”.
While i am not a big fun of Dugin, in this Surkov’s article he is on point, i believe.
https://www.geopolitica.ru/en/article/its-time-super-putin-dugin-surkovs-putin-analysis
Maybe MoA can add that article link to his post. Cause, frankly, way too much cheering and syrup about Surkov’s piece.

Posted by: Arioch | Feb 19 2019 14:17 utc | 161

@161 oeter,,, that’s true… i think it is a problem either way though and eventually the imf and these international organizations have to be accountable in a balanced way – which they presently are not!
@163 arioch… there are a few of us that said the very same thing, and you are the 3rd or 4th poster to link to the dugin article.. fiona jenkins much earlier was the first!!

Posted by: james | Feb 19 2019 17:12 utc | 162

oeter – peter.. opps, sorry!

Posted by: james | Feb 19 2019 17:13 utc | 163

donkeytale @ 148
“evil empire, pogohere –
the title of this publication says it all, don’t you think?
“Russia Insider.”
No. But that rings a bell. You know, books, covers, judging.

Posted by: pogohere | Feb 19 2019 23:08 utc | 164

@158 james
China has long been lobbying to have a larger share of the IMF voting rights, and was accorded a greater share some 2-3 years ago. So the gradual re-skewing against the US has started. It has a long way to go, but so does the decline of the dollar from global transactions – it’s still above 60% last I saw. China wants to be a part of the IMF, and the Yuan is part of the basket of currencies that make up the special drawing right – all of this is roughly what I recall without looking anything up.
But I don’t think China is subservient to this system in any unprofitable way. China’s been handling finance for 5,000 years. There’s nothing happening in western finance that China doesn’t understand.
One of the first things Putin did was to pay off Russia’s IMF loans and get out from under that yoke. It’s easily observable that neither country is ready to replace the existing financial order, but it’s also apparent that they are preparing for this if necessary.
But even a country with totally public money will have to deal with exchange currencies for international trade, so I suppose the global system could be the last thing to change. The key word to all of this is “gradual”.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 19 2019 23:45 utc | 165

@166 grieved.. i see the international systems put in place after ww2 as creating more leverage that the usa has over russia and china… obviously it can change, and however slow the changes are – glacial speed as i see it – a gradual approach makes some sense… i don’t suggest for a minute that anyone is ignorant of this set up – russia and china for example, are fully aware of the set up.. the voting rights hinge on the designation of a county as developed on developing.. that is the huge distinction… it could be argued they could have another category – disintegrating, lol… that would describe many of the western developed countries at this point who seem to believe forcing regime change to keep the ponzi scheme going – is necessary… thanks for your comments and posts grieved.. james

Posted by: james | Feb 20 2019 0:49 utc | 166

Ellis @7 and Joost @51
Russian does not translate readily into English, even for somewhat Russian speakers like myself. Complex sentences need to be first understood, then interpreted into smooth-flowing English rather than translated. This is my interpretation:
“Having collapsed from the level of the USSR to the level of the Russian Federation, Russia put an end to her collapse; began to recover and returned to her natural and only possible state, of being great, expanding into and gathering in lands containing peoples of common stock.”

Posted by: Alex Romanoff | Feb 20 2019 9:49 utc | 167

Putin Delivers Annual State of the Nation Speech. As I wrote earlier, Russian regeneration is all about uplifting its vastly diverse populace; Putin confirms that in his opening paragraph [My Emphasis Throughout]:
“Today’s Address is primarily devoted to matters of domestic social and economic development. I would like to focus on the objectives set forth in the May 2018 Executive Order and detailed in the national projects. Their content and the targets they set are a reflection of the demands and expectations of Russia’s citizens. People are at the core of the national projects, which are designed to bring about a new quality of life for all generations. This can only be achieved by generating momentum in Russia’s development….
Departing from the targets that were outlined would be unacceptable. It is true that these are challenging objectives. That being said, lowering the requirements for specific targets or watering them down is not an option. As I have already said, these are formidable challenges that require us to undertake major efforts. However, they are in step with the scale and pace of global change. It is our duty to keep pushing ahead and gaining momentum.
“If someone prefers to work in the business as usual mode, without challenges, avoiding initiative or responsibility, they had better leave immediately. I already hear that some things are “impossible,” “too difficult,” “the standards are too high,” and “it will not work.” With such an attitude, you had better stay away.
Besides, you cannot fool the people. They are acutely aware of hypocrisy, lack of respect or any injustice. They have little interest in red tape and bureaucratic routine. It is important for people to see what is really being done and the impact it has on their lives and the lives of their families. And not sometime in the future, but now. We must not repeat the mistakes of the past decades and wait for communism to arrive. We have to change the situation for the better now.”
This is the strongest rhetoric used by Putin to a domestic audience I’ve read. It’s as if he re-read Tolstoy’s critiques of the Tsar’s Boyars and decided to put the spurs to today’s equivalents. And in a reminder as to who is footing the bill for these national projects:
“Allow me to underscore: thanks to years of common work and the results achieved, we can now direct and concentrate enormous financial resources – at least enormous for our country – on development goals. These resources have not come as a rainfall. We have not borrowed them. These funds have been earned by millions of our citizens – by the entire country. They need to be applied to increase the wealth of Russia and the wellbeing of Russian families.
It’s not my intention to cite the entire speech, but I will include this last bit as it drives home what I wrote about the nature of Russia’s “Deep Nation” and its future:
“Let me now share some specifics on our objectives. I will begin with the key objective of preserving our nation, which means providing all-around support to families.
“Family, childbirth, procreation and respect for the elderly have always served as a powerful moral framework for Russia and its multi-ethnic people. We have been doing everything in our power to strengthen family values and are committed to doing so in the future. In fact, our future is at stake. This is a task shared by the state, civil society, religious organisations, political parties and the media.”
Some will recognize what’s a rather old concept: A nation is only as strong as its people; and during the 20th Century, Russia’s people were very severely attacked with tens of millions perishing. Putin rightly sees that what’s now transpiring is the latest in a series of existential crises brought about by external threats. The difference today is there’s no Mongol, French or German hordes to repel and defeat, which makes rallying the nation more difficult, particularly getting government at all levels to move their asses at a speed commensurate with the crisis.
I’ll close my comment by citing yet another paragraph that will appear rather alien to those within the Outlaw US Empire and elsewhere. Given Trump’s views on Socialism, you’ll never read or hear him utter the following words:
“Passion for a future career and creativity is formed at a young age. In the next three years, thanks to the development of children’s technology parks, quantoriums and education centres for computer skills, natural sciences and the humanities, around one million new spots in extracurricular education programmes will be created. All children must have access.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 20 2019 18:20 utc | 168

john helmers take on the surkov article… it is worth the read.. i liked a description of surkov towards the bottom –
“Orlova diagnoses Surkov’s essay as a symptom of his psychopathology as a courtier. “As Surkov’s then-boss Leonid Nevzlin [Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s partner at Menatep Bank] told me in an interview last year, Surkov didn’t know how to work with people. He could do it ‘either from the bottom, or from the top. . .he could either give orders to people, or look at them from the bottom and bootlick.’ Surkov left Menatep in 1996 to join Mikhail Fridman’s Alfa Bank and, subsequently, the [Yeltsin] Family, which he has been part of ever since. Maybe Surkov never learned his lessons from Leonid Nevzlin, and his essay simply reflects his longstanding talents as a fawner.””

Posted by: james | Feb 20 2019 19:38 utc | 169

surely what I am about to write is not a new notion but this essay raises the point. Russia is, largely, an ethnic nation with a state which has a constitution that seemingly reflects the ethnic nation’s [deep nation if you will] sensibilities. The US is or was at its founding, if there is such a thing, a white-prot, creed-based state, but the population in the US isn’t coherent ethnically, it has no ‘deep nation’ [it has deep nations perhaps ‘white nation’ etc] and the corrupt political system means the creed no longer has cred hence the dissolution. It’s old-style civil war time, not secessionist civil war time.

Posted by: stevelaudig | Feb 21 2019 2:06 utc | 170