Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 12, 2019

Russiagate Is Finished

For more than two years U.S. politicians, the media and some bloggers hyped a conspiracy theory. They claimed that Russia had somehow colluded with the Trump campaign to get him elected.

An obviously fake 'Dirty Dossier' about Trump, commissioned by the Clinton campaign, was presented as evidence. Regular business contacts between Trump flunkies and people in Ukraine or Russia were claimed to be proof for nefarious deals. A Russian click-bait company was accused of manipulating the U.S. electorate by posting puppy pictures and crazy memes on social media. Huge investigations were launched. Every rumor or irrelevant detail coming from them was declared to be - finally - the evidence that would put Trump into the slammer. Every month the walls were closing in on Trump.

At the same time the very real Trump actions that hurt Russia were ignored.

Finally the conspiracy theory has run out of steam. Russiagate is finished:

After two years and 200 interviews, the Senate Intelligence Committee is approaching the end of its investigation into the 2016 election, having uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, according to both Democrats and Republicans on the committee.
Democrats and other Trump opponents have long believed that special counsel Robert Mueller and Congressional investigators would unearth new and more explosive evidence of Trump campaign coordination with Russians. Mueller may yet do so, although Justice Department and Congressional sources say they believe that he, too, is close to wrapping up his investigation.

Nothing, zero, nada was found to support the conspiracy theory. The Trump campaign did not collude with Russia. A few flunkies were indicted for unrelated tax issues and for lying to the investigators about some minor details. But nothing at all supports the dramatic claims of collusion made since the beginning of the affair.

In a recent statement House leader Nancy Pelosi was reduced to accuse Trump campaign officials of doing their job:

“The indictment of Roger Stone makes clear that there was a deliberate, coordinated attempt by top Trump campaign officials to influence the 2016 election and subvert the will of the American people. ...

No one called her out for spouting such nonsense.

Russiagate created a lot of damage.

The alleged Russian influence campaign that never happened was used to install censorship on social media. It was used to undermine the election of progressive Democrats. The weapon salesmen used it to push for more NATO aggression against Russia. Maria Butina, an innocent Russian woman interested in good relation with the United States, was held in solitary confinement (recommended) until she signed a paper which claims that she was involved in a conspiracy.

In a just world the people who for more then two years hyped the conspiracy theory and caused so much damage would be pushed out of their public positions. Unfortunately that is not going to happen. They will jump onto the next conspiracy train and continue from there.

Posted by b on February 12, 2019 at 18:38 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Legally, Maria Butina was suborned into signing a false declaration. If there were the rule of law, such party or parties that suborned her would be in gaol. Considering Mueller's involvement with Lockerbie, I am not holding my breath. FWIW the Swiss company that made the timers allegedly involved in Lockerbie have some comments of its own.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Feb 12 2019 18:55 utc | 1

thanks b.. i will be really glad when this 'get russia' craziness is over, but i suspect even if the mueller investigation has nothing, all the same creeps will be pulling out the stops to generate something... skirpal, integrity initiative, and etc. etc. stuff like this just doesn't go away overnight or with the end of this 'investigation'... folks are looking for red meat i tell ya!

as for maria butina - i look forward to reading the article.. that was a travesity of justice but the machine moves on, mowing down anyone in it's way... she was on the receiving end of all the paranoia that i have come to associate with the western msm at this point...

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2019 19:00 utc | 2

Considering Mueller hasnt produced its report nor the House dito, its way to early to say Russia gate is "finished".

Posted by: Zanon | Feb 12 2019 19:03 utc | 3

And Russiagate was used ...

... by Hillary to justify her loss to Trump

Hillary's loss is actually best explained as her throwing the election to Trump. The Deep State wanted a nationalist to win as that would best help meet the challenge from Russia and China - a challenge that they had been slow to recognize.

... to smear Wikileaks as a Russian agent

The DNC leak is best explained as a CIA false flag.

... to remove and smear Michael Flynn

Trump said that he fired Flynn for lying to VP Pence but Flynn's conversations with the Russian Ambassador after Obama threw them out for "meddling" in the US election was an embarrassment to the Administration as Putin's Putin's decision not to respond was portrayed as favoritism toward the Trump Administration.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2019 19:11 utc | 4

You can take this to the bank. Hardcore Russiagaters will never give up their belief in collusion and Russian influence in the 2016 campaign—never. Congress and Mueller will be accused of engaging in a coverup. This is typical behavior for conspiracy theorists.

Posted by: Rob | Feb 12 2019 19:28 utc | 5

Jimmy Dore on same:

Posted by: bj | Feb 12 2019 19:30 utc | 6

I hope that Russiagate is indeed "finished", but I think it needs to be draped with garlic-clove necklaces, shot up with silver bullets, sprinkled with holy water, and a wooden stake driven through its black heart just to make sure.

I don't dispute the logical argument B. presents, but it may be too dispassionately rational. I know that the Russiagate proponents and enthralled supporters of the concept are too invested psychologically in this surrealistic fantasy to let go, even if the official outcome reluctantly admits that there's no "there" there.

The Democratic Party, one of the major partners mounting the Russophobic psy-op, has already resolved to turn Democratic committee chairmen loose to dog the Trump administration with hearings aggressively flogging any and all matters that discredit and undermine Trump-- his business connections, social liaisons, etc.

They may hope to find the Holy Grail: the elusive "bombshell" that "demands" impeachment, i.e., some crime or illicit conduct so heinous that the public will stand for another farcical impeachment proceeding. But I reckon that the Dems prefer the "soft" impeachment of harassing Trump with hostile hearings in hopes of destroying his 2020 electability with the death of a thousand innuendoes and guilt-by-association.

Thus, even if the Mueller report is underwhelming, I think that the Democrats and TDS-saturated Trump opponents will attempt to rehabilitate it by pretending that it contains important loose ends that need to be pursued. In other words, to perpetuate the Mueller-driven political Russophobia by all other available means.

Put more succinctly, I fear that Russiagate won't be finished until Rachel Maddow says it's finished. ;)

Posted by: Ort | Feb 12 2019 19:34 utc | 7

Once a hypothesis is fixed in people's minds, whether true or not, it's hard to get them to let go of it. And let's not forget how many times the narrative changed (and this is true in the Skripal case as well), with all past facts vanishing to accommodate a new narrative. So I, like others, expect the fake scandal to continue while many, many other real crimes (the US attempted coup in Venezuela and the genocidal war in Yemen, for instance) continue unabated.

Posted by: worldblee | Feb 12 2019 19:38 utc | 8

Putin solicits public input for essential national policy goals. If ever there was a template to follow for an actual MAGAgenda, Putin's Russia provides one. While US politicos argue over what is essentially Bantha Pudu, Russians are hard at work improving their nation which includes restructuring their economy.

Russiagate has exposed the great degree of corruption within the Justice Department bureaucracy, particularly within FBI, and within the entire Democrat Party.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 12 2019 19:43 utc | 9

Jimmy Dore on same:
(picked the wrong url in 6 - sorry).

Posted by: bj | Feb 12 2019 19:45 utc | 10

I very much doubt it it is over
Trump is corrupt and has links to corrupt Russians
Collusion, maybe not, but several stinking individuals are in the frame for, guess what - ...bring it on...
The fact that Hilary was arguably even worse (a point made ad-nauseum on here) is frankly irrelevant
The vilification of Trump will not affect the warmongers efforts. He is a useful idiot

Posted by: BlunderOn | Feb 12 2019 19:48 utc | 11

for a take on the alternative reality some are living in emptywheel has an article up on the nbc link b provides and the article on butina is discussed in the comments section... as i said - they are looking for red meat and will not be happy until they get some... they are completely zonkers...

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2019 19:52 utc | 12

Now that this racket has been admitted as such, I expect all of the media outlets that devoted banner headlines, hundreds of thousands of hours of cable TV time, thousands of trees, and free speech online to immediately fire all of their journalists and appoint Glenn Greenwald as the publisher of the New York Times, Michael Tracey at the Post, Aaron Matte at the Guardian, and Max Blumenthal at the Daily Beast.

Since this is obviously not going to be allowed to happen, and since these people get away with everything, expect this to never end, despite all evidence to the contrary. It doesn't matter if they've been exposed as CIA propagandists or Integrity Initiative stooges, the game goes on...and on.... the job security of these disgraced columnists is the greatest in the Western world.

Posted by: Blooming Barricade | Feb 12 2019 19:55 utc | 13

Stephen Cohen discusses how rational viewpoints are banned from the mainstream media, and how several features of US life today resemble some of the worst features of the Soviet system.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 12 2019 20:03 utc | 14

It turned out getting rid of the Clintons has been a long term project.

Posted by: Heath | Feb 12 2019 20:18 utc | 15

The US needs an enemy, how else can they ask NATO members to cough up 2% of GDP [just for one example Germany's GDP is nearly 4 Trillion dollars [2017]for defence spending, what a crazy sum all NATO members must fork out to please the US, but then most of that money must be spent on the US MIC 'interoperability' of course. Then of course Russia has to be surrounded by NATO should they try and take over Europe by surging through the Fulda gap./s Then of course there are the professional pundits who have built careers on anti Russian propaganda, Rachel Maddow for instance who earns 30,000$ per day to spew anti Russian nonsense.

Posted by: Harry Law | Feb 12 2019 20:21 utc | 16

Another great damage of Russiagate was the instigating of a nuclear arms race directed primarily at Russia, and ideologically justified by its diabolical policies.

I'm sorry b is so down on Conspiracy Theories, since they reveal quite real staged homicidal false flag operations of US power. Feeding into the stigmatizing of the truth about reality is not in the interests of the earth's people.

Posted by: folktruther | Feb 12 2019 20:27 utc | 17

somehow I see this "revelation: tied to Barr's approaching tenure.
I think they (FBI/DOJ) didn't want his involvement in their noodle soup of an investigation and the best way to accomplish that was to end it themselves.
I also suspect that a deal has been made with Trump, possibly in exchange for leaving his family alone.
So we will see no investigation of Hillary, her 650,000 emails or the many crimes they detailed (according to NYPD investigation of Weiner's laptop) and the US will continue to be at war all day, every day.
Team Swamp rules.

Posted by: frances | Feb 12 2019 20:31 utc | 18

Meanwhile, MSM is prepping its readers for the possibility that the Mueller report will never be released to us proles. If that's the case, I'm sure nobody will try to use innuendo to suggest it actually contains explosive revelations after all...

Posted by: Ash | Feb 12 2019 20:35 utc | 19

16 Harry its vitally important as the US desperately wants to Keep Europe under its thumb and to stop this European army which means Europe lead by Paris and Berlin becomes a world power. Trump's attempts to make nice with Russia is to keep it out of the EU bloc.

Posted by: Heath | Feb 12 2019 20:38 utc | 20

Am surprised to see so many comments predicting a long and happy life for Russiagate. One would think people would feel a sense of relief.
Be they trolls or has the meme bitten so deeply into their consciousness that they are unable to shake it off?
Anyone who has followed the less than stellar performance of Hillary's political career, sleezy primary and hawkish presidential campaign could have no doubt that she was a worse choice than Trump
though neither candidate was a good choice.
Sadly that has been the case for many election cycles, including the reelection of Obama after he walked back on every campaign promise he made, including healthcare. He campaigned on single payer.

Posted by: CD Waller | Feb 12 2019 20:53 utc | 21

Well, the liberal conspiracy car crash ensured downmarket Mussolini a second term, it appears...Hard Brexit Tories also look likely to win thanks to centrist sabatoge of the left. You reap what you sow, corporate presstitutes!

Posted by: Anne Jaclard | Feb 12 2019 20:54 utc | 22

Sane people have predicted the end of Russiagate almost as many times as insane people have predicted that the "smoking gun that will get rid of Trump" has been found.
And yet the Mighty Wurlitzer grinds on, while social media is more and more censored.
I expect it all to continue until the 2020 election circus winds up into full-throated mode, and no one talks about anything but the next puppet to be appointed. Oops, I mean "elected".

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 12 2019 21:05 utc | 23

Ort @ 7:

You also need to behead the corpse, stuff the mouth with a lemon and then place the head down in the coffin with the body in supine (facing up) position. Weight the coffin with stones and wild roses and toss it into a fast-flowing river.

Russiagate won't be finished until a wall is built around Capitol Hill and all its inhabitants and worker bees declared insane by a properly functioning court of law.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 12 2019 21:15 utc | 24

frances @18:

I also suspect that a deal has been made with Trump, possibly in exchange for leaving his family alone. So we will see no investigation of Hillary ...

Underlying your perspective is the assumption that USA is a democracy where a populist "outsider" could be elected President, Yet you also believe that Hillary and the Deep State have the power to manipulate government and the intelligence agencies and propose a "conspiracy theory" based on that power.

Isn't it more likely that Trump made it clear (behind closed doors, of course) that he was amenable to the goals of the Deep State and that the bogus investigation was merely done to: 1) cover their own election meddling; 2) eliminate threats like Flynn and Assange/Wikileaks; 3) anti-Russian propaganda?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2019 21:16 utc | 25

@ Posted by: Anne Jaclard | Feb 12, 2019 3:54:47 PM | 22

For my money the Trump analog in Italian politics isn't Mussolini, but rather Berlusconi.

Posted by: Ash | Feb 12 2019 21:19 utc | 26


Steven Cohen once lamented that there were no "wise men" left in foreign policy. All the independent realists were shut out.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2019 21:33 utc | 27

This thread proves the "minds made up" meme. Always wonder about a blog that declares the "facts" before the actual evidence is released. What are they up to? Inside information? Or just gaining readership? Pandering to fans and supporters? Or do they really know something that the rest of us haven't seen? For those that want to forgive Trump and claim he's not guilty of any collusion with Russia, you have to overlook a great deal, including his private secret meetings with Putin. That'a ALL the evidence ANYONE needs to know that Trump is a traitor. End of story.

Posted by: JR | Feb 12 2019 21:37 utc | 28

Lol bro was that supposed to be sarcastic?!

Posted by: Peter | Feb 12 2019 21:48 utc | 29

US anti-Russian hysteria is moving into that grey area beyond McCarthyism approaching Nazism.

Posted by: Michael McNulty | Feb 12 2019 21:49 utc | 30

james #12

PLlllllease dont mention emptywheel. It is just silly tosh from an airhead. It has breathlessly anticipated the impeachment as a born again anticipates the rapture. found it hugely amusing for a month or so and just had to leave... it is industrial fake news blog. Not one spoke between the hub and the rim.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 12 2019 21:50 utc | 31

We still don't know who hacked the emails. That was a crime. Period. Or does Moon think hacking candidates and their staff emails is perfectly fine? And there is the little part about the all the lies Trump and his supporters have done to the public and under oath. If everything they did was perfectly okay why all the lies? And this was not just lying about a b-job, this was big lies like "I don't do business with Russia" type stuff that was clearly intended to deceive the public. But I suppose if Trump can go to campaign rallies and basically admit that he lies and that it is all fun to troll the libs then why not let him lie about all things Russia?

Sorry Moon, no one said from the beginning that the Mueller investigation would be pointless unless they uncovered a conspiracy. Nope. It was based on an original crime (hacked emails) and the unwillingness of the president to care about it nor Congress to do a thorough investigation. Add to that that it looked awfully a lot like Trump was trying to thwart this said investigation and a million times we say yes, this was worth it. We may not have Trump on conspiracy but we have turned over a lot of logs and a lot of creepy bugs have crawled out. Not that it matters to his supporters, but at least the history books will be accurate.

Posted by: The Hang Nail | Feb 12 2019 21:51 utc | 32

I think JR is the traitor for colluding with the satanic cosmic fiends
that own the world. Cooperation between the last remnants of the
adherents to dharma,true Christians and other spiritually minded people
like putin, might have at least curbed their influence.

Posted by: evilempire | Feb 12 2019 21:53 utc | 33

@ JR | Feb 12, 2019 4:37:28 PM | 28

Or perhaps it's your comment that proves the "minds made up" meme.

Posted by: Ort | Feb 12 2019 21:54 utc | 34

Dowd, Trump's former lawyer on Russiagate stated there may not even be a report. If this is the case then the Zionist rulers have gotten to Mueller who no doubt figured out that the election collusion breadcrumbs don't lead to Putin, they lead to Netanyahu and Zionist billionaire friends! So Mueller may have to come up with a nothing burger to hide the truth.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 12 2019 21:58 utc | 35

B is the only alternative media blogger I've followed for a significant amount of time without becoming disenfranchised. Not because he has no blind spot - his is just one I can deal with... optimism.

Posted by: Danny | Feb 12 2019 22:02 utc | 36

I will believe Russiagate is finished when expelled Russian staff gets back, when the US returns the seized Russian properties, when the consulate is Seattle reopens and when USA issues formal apology to Russia.

Posted by: hopehely | Feb 12 2019 22:14 utc | 37

Nobody has ever advanced the tiniest shred of credible evidence that 'Russia' or its government at any level was in any way implicated either in Wikileaks' acquisition of the DNC and Podesta emails or in any form of interference with the Presidential election.
This has been going on for three years and not once has anything like evidence surfaced.
On the other hand there has been an abundance of evidence that those alleging Russian involvement consistently refused to listen to explore the facts.
Incredibly, the DNC computers were never examined by the FBI or any other agency resembling an official police agency. Instead the notorious Crowdstrike professionally russophobic and caught red handed faking data for the Ukrainians against Russia were commissioned to produce a 'report.'
Nobody with any sense would have credited anything about Russiagate after that happened.
Thgen there was the proof, from VIPS and Bill Binney (?) that the computers were not hacked at all but that the information was taken by thumbdrive. A theory which not only Wikileaks but several witnesses have offered to prove.
Not one of them has been contacted by the FBI, Mueller or anyone else "investigating."
In reality the charges from the first were ludicrous on their face. There is, as b has proved and every new day's news attests, not the slightest reason why anyone in the Russian government should have preferred Trump over Clinton. And that is saying something because they are pretty well indistinguishable. And neither has the morals or brains of an adolescent groundhog.
Russiagate is over, alright, The Nothingburger is empty. But that means nothing in this 'civilisation': it will be recorded in the history books, still to be written, by historians still in diapers, that "The 2016 Presidential election, which ended in the controversial defeat of Hillary Clinton, was heavily influenced by Russian agents who hacked ..etc etc"
What will not be remembered is that every single email released was authentic. And that within those troves of correspondence there was enough evidence of criminality by Clinton and her campaign to fill a prison camp.
Another thing that will not be recalled is that there was once a young enthusiastic man, working for the DNC, who was mugged one evening after work and killed.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 12 2019 22:16 utc | 38

The 'no collusion' result will only spur the 'beginning of the end' baboons to shout even more, they'll never stop until they die in their beds or the plebs of the Republic made them adore the street lamp posts, you'll see. The former is by far more likely, the unwashed of American have never had a penchant for foreign affairs except for the few spasms like Vietnam.

Posted by: Baron | Feb 12 2019 22:16 utc | 39

There was collusion alright but the only Russians who helped Trump get elected and were in on the collusion are citizens of ISRAEL FIRST, likewise for the American billionaires who put Trump in the power perch. ISRAEL FIRST.

That's why Trump is on giant billboards in Israel shaking hands with the Yahoo. Trump is higher in the polls in Israel than in the U.S. If it weren't that the Zionist upper crust need Trump doing their dirty work in America, like trying today get rid of Rep. Omar Ilhan, then Trump would win the elections in Ziolandia or Ziostan by a landslide cause he's been better for the Joowish state than all preceding Presidents put together. Mazel tov to them bullshet for the rest of us servile mass in the vassal West and Palestinians the most shafted class ever. Down with Venezuela and Iran, up with oil and gas. The billionare shysters' and Trump's payola is getting closer. Onward AZ Empire!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 12 2019 22:20 utc | 40

How much has been spent, to date, on Russiagate?

Just like the endless wars it is a distraction to maintain control

And in case you haven't noticed, this spinning plate has been going for 3 years

I wonder what color it is?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2019 22:21 utc | 41

He proved himself so easy to troll during the election. It wouldn't surprise me if aim of the domestic intelligence agencies all along was to get him elected and have a candidate they could manipulate.

Posted by: Les | Feb 12 2019 22:24 utc | 42

Poor baby Trump, soooo manipulated.

Starring role

Posted by: Circe | Feb 12 2019 22:35 utc | 43

@ Harry Law #16

At least Germany has the good sense not to throw taxpayer money at the F-35.

German F-35 decision sacrifices NATO capability for Franco-German industrial cooperation

I don't know what they have in mind with a proposed airplane purchase. If they need fighters, buy or lease Sweden's Gripen. If attack airplanes are what they're after, go to Boeing and get some brand new F-15X models. If the prickly French are agreeable to build a 6th generation aircraft, that would be worth a try.

Regarding Rachel Maddow, I recently had an encounter with a relative who told me 1) I visited too many oddball sites and 2) he considered Rachel M. to be the most reliable news person in existence. I think we're talking "true believer" here.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 12 2019 22:38 utc | 44

@ Les @42

It wouldn't surprise me if aim of the domestic intelligence agencies all along was to get him elected and have a candidate they could manipulate.

Considering how those "intelligence agencies" are hard pressed to find their own tails, even if you allow them to use both hands, it would surprise me.

That Trump would turn out to be a tub of jello in more than just a physical way has been a surprise to an awful lot of us.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 12 2019 22:43 utc | 45

Russiagate was very successful. You just have to understand the objectives.

It was a great distraction. Diverting peoples attention from the continued fleecing of the “real people” which are the bottom 90% by the “Corporate People” and their Government Lackeys.

It provided an excuse for the acting CEO (a figurehead) of the Corporate Empire to go back on many of the promises made that got him elected, and to fill the swamp with Neocon and Koch Brother creatures with the excuse the Deep State made him do it. More proof that there is no deception that is too ridiculous to be believed so long as you have enough pundits claiming it to be so

Allowed the bipartisan support for the clamp down on alt media with censorship by social media (Deep State Tools) and funded by the Ministry of Truth set up by Obama in his last days in office to under the false pretense of protecting us from foreign governments interference in elections (except Israel of course) . Similar agencies have been set up or planned to be in other countries followig the US example such as UK, France, Russia, etc.

Did anyone really expect Mr “Cover It Up “ Mueller to find anything? Mueller is Deep State all the way and Trump is as well, not withstanding the “Fake Wrestling “ drama that they are bitter enemies. All the surveillance done over the past 2-3 decades would have so much dirt on the Trumpet they could silence him forever . Trump knew that going in and I sometimes wonder if he was pressured to run as a condition to avoid prosecution. Pretty sure every President since Carter has been “Kompromat”

Posted by: Pft | Feb 12 2019 22:44 utc | 46

@31 uncle tungsten, true enough! it was to provide more comic relief! what to do with ostriches and heads in the sand??

@38 bevin.. indeed - seth richs name will be washed and never enter the history books...

@46 pft.. i agree with you.. your post backs up jackrabbits position too, which i share as well... this is all inside poker stuff..

Posted by: james | Feb 12 2019 22:53 utc | 47

@ JR #28

This thread proves the "minds made up" meme. Always wonder about a blog that declares the "facts" before the actual evidence is released. What are they up to? Inside information? Or just gaining readership? Pandering to fans and supporters?

There is a concept called "prediction" which I believe you ought to look into. Another is "speculation".

As I tell relatives, in a state where I use an electronic touch-screen device to pretend to vote, my only real relief from the BS heaped on me from all directions is to VENT. Talk about it. Speculate. At some point I get to compare my guesswork with what eventually happens.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 12 2019 22:55 utc | 48

Hey moon, thanks for standing behind your comments with your name.

Posted by: MIchael Kemper | Feb 12 2019 23:24 utc | 49

james, bevin

If you've done just a cursory look into Seth Rich, you'd be very suspicious about the story of his life and death.

IMO Assange/Wikilleaks were set up.

PS And Flynn was set up too.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

What they are doing is Orwellian: White Helmets, election manipulation, propaganda, McCarthism, etc. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2019 23:29 utc | 50

Russians and likely at the behest of the Russian state interfered and it was fair payback for Yeltsin's election. It is time to move on but not in feigned ignorance of what was done. Was it "outcome" affecting, possibly, but not clearly and if the US electoral college and electoral system generally is so decrepit that a second level power in the world can influence then its the US's fault. It's not like the 2000 election wasn't a warning shot about the rottenness of system and a system that doesn't understand a warning shot deserves pretty much what it gets. But there's enough non-hype evidence of acts and intent to say yes, the Russians tried and may have succeeded. They certainly are acting guilty enough. but still close the book move and move on to Trump's 'real' crimes which were done without a Russian assist.

Posted by: stevelaudig | Feb 12 2019 23:34 utc | 51

Hi Michael Kemper,
I think you forgot the "6" after the first two letters of your first name...

Posted by: Roza Shanina | Feb 12 2019 23:40 utc | 52

stevelaudig @51:

Russians and likely at the behest of the Russian state interfered .... Was it "outcome" affecting, possibly ...

And you know this .... how?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12 2019 23:42 utc | 53

@38 bevin @47 james

I seem to recall former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray saying that it was not a hack and that he had been handed a thumb drive in a field near American University by a disgruntled Democrat whistleblower. Further, I seem to recall William Binney, former NSA Technical Leader for intelligence, conducting an experiment to show that internet speeds at the time would not allow the information to be hacked - they knew the size of the files and the period over which they were downloaded. Plus, Seth Rich. So why does anyone even believe it was a hack, @32 THN?

Posted by: spudski | Feb 12 2019 23:52 utc | 54

Just another comment re Mueller. There is a great documentary by (Dutch, not Israeli---different person) Gideon Levy, Lockerbie Revisited. The narration is in Dutch, but the interviews are in English, and there is a small segment of a German broadcast. The documentary ends abruptly where one set of FBI personnel contradict statements by another set of FBI personnel.

See also this primer on Mueller's MO.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Feb 12 2019 23:55 utc | 55

reply to jackrabbit 25
Let me begin by saying I doubt we will ever really know if Trump was the real deal or just DS smoke and mirrors.
re "Underlying your perspective is the assumption that USA is a democracy where a populist "outsider" could be elected President,"
I do think so, because while the Dems manipulated the vote they underestimated the number of people who wanted real change which Trump appeared to represent.
"Yet you also believe that Hillary and the Deep State have the power to manipulate government and the intelligence agencies"
Yes, I do believe that,look at the nothing of an investigation into the Clinton Foundation as just one example,the DS doesn't "manipulate govt and the Intel agencies" it IS the govt and intelligence agencies.

re "Isn't it more likely that Trump made it clear (behind closed doors, of course) that he was amenable to the goals of the Deep State and that the bogus investigation was merely done to: 1) cover their own election meddling; 2) eliminate threats like Flynn and Assange/Wikileaks; 3) anti-Russian propaganda?"
I am more inclined to think he had hoped to right the Ship of State and the Russia investigation was to get rid of him, they felt they would find something as they are so corrupt that the idea he was not never entered their thinking.
I think he agreed to a number of their objectives from the start because he held the same viewpoints but now, I do think he has gone over to the Dark Side and he won't be coming back.

Posted by: frances | Feb 13 2019 0:00 utc | 56

reply to Les 42
"It wouldn't surprise me if aim of the domestic intelligence agencies all along was to get him elected and have a candidate they could manipulate."
Not the intelligence agencies, the Military IMO. They knew HC for what she was; horrifically corrupt and,again IMO,they know she is insane.
They saw and I think still see Trump as someone they could work with, remember Rogers (Navy) of the NSA going to him immediately once he was elected? That was the Military protecting him as best they could.
They IMO have kept him alive and as long as he doesn't send any troops into "real" wars, they will keep on keeping him alive.
This doesn't mean Trump hasn't gone over to the Dark Side, just that no military action will take place that the military command doesn't fully support.
Again, I could be wrong, he could be backed by fiends from Patagonia for all I really know:)

Posted by: frances | Feb 13 2019 0:11 utc | 57

reply to stevelaudig 51 (and Jackrabbit 53)
"Russians and likely at the behest of the Russian state interfered .... Was it "outcome" affecting, possibly ...
And you know this .... how?
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 12, 2019 6:42:58 PM | 53

Give it up Steve, nobody's buying it.

Posted by: frances | Feb 13 2019 0:18 utc | 58

Just an aside:
Saw this comin' from a mile away....the "reluctant candidate":

Posted by: frances | Feb 13 2019 0:27 utc | 59

@ frances #59

I can't see the woman getting the nomination. Or to be more precise, I refuse to believe US citizens are nutty enough to go down that path.

As for myself, I'd vote for a random US citizen chosen from a pool of non-druggie non-criminal people under 65 if such a person was running against Trump. Male, female, black, white, yellow, or purple - but not the wife of Obama.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Feb 13 2019 0:49 utc | 60

reply to: Zachary Smith 60
"I can't see the woman getting the nomination. Or to be more precise, I refuse to believe US citizens are nutty enough to go down that path."

Not "nutty", just plain, less brains than a doorknob stupid. I give you these words to support my position:
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.” H.L. Mencken.

Posted by: frances | Feb 13 2019 1:03 utc | 61

The satanic inquisition, using their necromantic sorceries, have successfully
programmed their imps(indoctrinated, manipulated, programmed) to believe that
peaceful, harmonious relations with a world class scientific, technological
and cultural super-power that could redound to the benefit of all humanity
is evil collusion.

Posted by: evilempire | Feb 13 2019 1:38 utc | 62

The button pushers behind the Trump collusion and Russia election hacking false narratives got what they wanted: to walk the democrats and republicans straight into Cold War v2; to start their campaign to suppress alternative voices on the internet; to increase military spending; and more, more, more war.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Feb 13 2019 1:44 utc | 63

@50 jr and @54 spudski... i actually haven't followed it closely, but it seems reasonable to me someone with a flash drive passing it on to someone else is quite realistic.. and it seems reasonable in this get russia meme that some powerful interests would want it to be perceived this way - just as in the skripal example... we don't know what happened, but it is reasonable to consider all the possibilities, as opposed to the one i just read on wikipedia which is a pathetic piece of work!

@frances - thanks for your comments and insights!

@63 ariusarmenian - i think it looks this way to many of the moa posters - or at least me..

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2019 2:15 utc | 64

ot - further to @65 and

as jr says - welcome to the rabbit hole..

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2019 2:34 utc | 65

Hope you're right b. Maybe now we can get on with some real truths.

#1.. That there is really only one party with real influence, the party of $.

#2.. That most of the Dems belong to that club, and virtually all the Repubs.

#3..That the U$A is not a real democracy, but an Oligarchy.

#4..That the corporate empire is the greatest purveyor of evil the world has ever known.

And these are just a few truths.

Thanks for the therapy b, hope you feel better...

Posted by: ben | Feb 13 2019 3:11 utc | 66

bj @ 6: Thanks for the Dore piece.

The only real collusion was between all the moneyed interests to install DJT as POTUS.

He's doing one hell of a job for those moneyed interests too.

Posted by: ben | Feb 13 2019 3:31 utc | 67

Boy, I hope Jackrabbit sees this. Everyone knows I believe Trump is the anointed chosen of the Zionist 1%. There was no Russia collusion; it was Zionist collusion with a Russian twist. So how are the Zionist 1% ensuring Trump will win again? Enter Zionist billionaire Howard Schultz! He will play the role Hillary played in 2016. He will get Trump re-elected! Take it to the Goldman Sachs bank!

Posted by: Circe | Feb 13 2019 3:52 utc | 68

James @ 65, Spudski @ 54, Bevin @ 38:

My understanding is that the Democratic Party person who passed the USB stick to Craig Murray was not Seth Rich. Seth Rich died on 10 July 2016 and Murray received the USB stick in September of the same year.

So there were quite a few disgruntled Democratic Party whistleblowers at the time.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 13 2019 3:54 utc | 69

psychohistorian #41 How much has been spent, to date, on Russiagate? Well it seems that the Muller investigation has cost about $25 million. The Muller investigation has seized $26.7 million from Manafort plus an additional $1.9 million from others charged my Muller. Must be one of the few government programmes that makes money!


Posted by: Tom | Feb 13 2019 3:58 utc | 70

Oh yeah! Forgot to mention the latest. Trump is asking Kim to provide a list of his nuclear scientists! Before Kim acts on this request, he should call up the Iranian government for advise 'cause they have lots of experience and can warn Kim of what will happen to each of those scientists. They'll be put on a kill-list and will be extrajudicially wacked as in executed. Can you believe the chutzpah? Trump must think Kim is really stupid to fall for that one!

Aye! The thought of six more years of Zionist pandering Trump. Barf-inducing prospect is too tame.

Posted by: Circe | Feb 13 2019 4:11 utc | 71

@Jen 70

You're right - Seth Rich was not alive in September 2016. Craig Murray says he received a package in a wooded area near the American University in Washington DC in September 2016 from “the source” and that the leak source was the deed of a disgruntled Democrat employee.

Posted by: spudski | Feb 13 2019 4:48 utc | 72

B you check out the brief awaiting adjudication, whereby they state that they will appeal to to SCOTUS. Mueller is unconstitutional and plausible criminal.
67 pages


Congress Has Not “By Law” Vested The Attorney General With
Authority to Appoint the Special Counsel as an Inferior Officer.
The principal question before this Court is whether there is any statute that clearly conveys power to the Attorney General to appoint a private attorney as Special Counsel at the level of an inferior officer. The Special Counsel claims that §§ 515 and 533(1) do the job. But the Spe
cial Counsel’s “plain
text” analysis
redrafts both provisions in material ways. He also places extensive reliance on historic practice and predecessor versions of § 515 to aid his redrafting. None of this squares with controlling and settled law. Here, the plain text of §§ 515 and 533(1) does not clearly confer authority to appoint any special counsel, much less one as an inferior officer.

Posted by: col from oz | Feb 13 2019 5:23 utc | 73

@71 jen / 73 spudski... i went and checked craigs site, but was unable to find him mentioning this.. i did re-read his post from july 3rd 2017 that came up in a search of seth rich.. The Stink Without a Secret

to quote from it.. "That is it. To this day, that is the sum total of actual “evidence” of Russian hacking. I won’t say hang on to it as a fact, because it contains no relevant fact. But at least it is some form of definable allegation of something happening, rather than “Russian hacking” being a simple article of faith like the Holy Trinity.

But there are a number of problems that prevent this being fact at all. Nobody has ever been able to refute the evidence of Bill Binney, former Technical Director of the NSA who designed its current surveillance systems. Bill has stated that the capability of the NSA is such, that if the DNC computers had been hacked, the NSA would be able to trace the actual packets of that information as those emails travelled over the internet, and give a precise time, to the second, for the hack. The NSA simply do not have the event – because there wasn’t one. I know Bill personally and am quite certain of his integrity.

As we have been repeatedly told, “17 intelligence agencies” sign up to the “Russian hacking”, yet all these king’s horses and all these king’s men have been unable to produce any evidence whatsoever of the purported “hack”. Largely because they are not in fact trying. Here is another actual fact I wish you to hang on to: The Democrats have refused the intelligence agencies access to their servers to discover what actually happened. I am going to say that again.

The Democrats have refused the intelligence agencies access to their servers to discover what actually happened." - why is that???

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2019 6:12 utc | 74

Russiagate Is Finished
b on February 12, 2019 at 01:38 PM

It'll be loverly, in an Eliza Doolittle-ish way, if this prediction comes true in the near future.
Fortunately it doesn't matter to Trump whether it does or not.

He seemed too good to be true during the campaign in 2016 and I was curious to see how he would handle the vacuous and erroneous backlash from the Hillary-bots. He knew they weren't doing themselves any favors by falling in love with their own delusions and he seems to have decided to let them dig a hole for themselves, which they've obligingly continued to do.

I'm impressed by the fact that Trump has never looked worried or sleep-deprived since the day he was sworn in. Pre-Trump POTUSes have all Tr-r-aditionally resorted to the theatrical furrowed-brow gambit to reinforce their 'sincerity' but not Trump. Imo, he's too busy staying one jump ahead of The Swamp's cranks and ideologues, and deciding which clique to help to ambush itself next, to worry about their petty fantasies.

It's revealing, to me, that one his first ambush targets was "Israel" and by extension The Lobby. They fell for his Jerusalem gambit hook line and s(t)inker. Now, "Israel" has been exposed as little more than a bunch of murdering thieves and liars. And they're so dopey and hide-bound that they still think he did them a favour. That's progress.

His Venezuela gambit, despite the many negatives, has encouraged Christian Colonialism's ideologues to ambush themselves by picking sides and exposing themselves, and each other, as another bunch of murdering thieves and liars with no respect for Democracy, Common Decency, or the Rule Of Law.

His attempts to introduce some sanity into the West-Russia relationship has been vociferously opposed by the defenders of the M-IC Gravy Train and they're exposing themselves on that front too. They've also exposed themselves by their reaction to his efforts to defuse North Korea as a stand-by fake threat.

His Iran bluster helps the "Israelis" to forget that he tricked them into believing too much of their own bs. It's too soon to say whether he's 'winning' or not but the ratbags he's flushed out into the open, so far, aren't exactly covering themselves with glory...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2019 6:29 utc | 75

Russiagate is finish. So, now to create Chinagate. But how ??

Posted by: PHC | Feb 13 2019 7:25 utc | 76

The view from the hermitage is, we are in the age of distractions.
Russiagate will be replaced with one of a litany of distractions, purely designed to keep us off target.
The target being, corruption, vote rigging, illegal wars, war crimes, overthrowing sovereign governments, and political assasinations, both at home and abroad.
Those so distracted, will focus on sillyness; not the genuine danger afoot around the planet.
Get used to it; it's become the new normal.

Posted by: V | Feb 13 2019 7:25 utc | 77

I have yet to read anything more delusional, nay, utterly preposterous. Methinks you over-project too much. Even Trump would have a belly-ache laugh reading that sheeple spiel. You're the type that sees the giant billboard of Zionist Trump and Yahoo shaking hands and drones on and on that our lying eyes deceive us and it's really Trump playing 4-D chess. I suppose when he tried to pressure Omar Ilhan into resigning her seat in Congress yesterday, that too was reverse psychology?

Trump instagramed the billboard pic, he tweeted it, he probably pasted it on his wall; maybe with your kind of wacky, Trump infatuation, you should too!

Starring role

Posted by: Circe | Feb 13 2019 8:53 utc | 78

Russiagate is finished because Mueller discovered an embarrassing fact: The collusion was and always will be with Israel.

Here's Trump professing his endless love for Zionism:

Trump Resign

Posted by: Circe | Feb 13 2019 9:15 utc | 79

Russiagate was very successful <=pls read, re-read Pft @ 46.. he listed many things. divide and conquer accomplished.
a nation state is defined as an armed rule making structure, designed by those who control a territory, and constructed by the lawyers, military, and wealthy and run by the persons the designers appoint, for the appointed are called politicians.

Most designs of armed nation states provide the designers with information feedback and the designers use that information to appoint more obedient politicians and generals to run things, and to improve the design to better serve the designers. The armed rule making structure is designed to give the designers complete control over those targeted to be the governed. Why so stupid the governed? ; always they allow themselves to be manipulated like sheep.

When 10 angry folks approach you with two pieces of ropes: one to throw over the tree branch under which your horse will be supporting you while they tie the noose around your neck and the other shorter piece of rope to tie your hands behind ..your back you need at that point to make your words count, if five of the people are black and five are white. all you need do is say how smart the blacks are, and how stupid the whites are, as the two groups fight each other you manage your escape. democrat vs republican= divide to conquer. gun, no gun = divide to conquer, HRC vs DJT = divide to conquer, abortion, no abortion = divide to conquer, Trump is a Russian planted in a high level USA position of power = divide to conquer, They were all in on it together,, Muller was in the white house to keep the media supplied with XXX, to keep the law enforcement agencies in the loop, and to advise trump so things would not get out of hand ( its called Manipulation and the adherents to the economic system called Zionism
For the record, Zionism is not related to race, religion or intelligence. Zionism is a system of economics that take's no captives, its adherents must own everything, must destroy and decimate all actual or imaginary competition, for Zionist are the owners and masters of everything? Zionism is about power, absolute power, monopoly ownership and using governments everywhere to abuse the governed. Zionism has many adherents, whites, blacks, browns, Christians, Jews, Islamist, Indians, you name it among each class of person and walk of life can be found persons who subscribe to the idea that they, and only they, should own everything, and when those of us, that are content to be the governed let them, before the kill and murder us, they usually end up owning everything.

Posted by: snake | Feb 13 2019 10:13 utc | 80

Hoarsewhisperer @76

There may be an alternative reality where Trump is really Superman but, unfortunately, in this reality, Trump is just the Flim-Flam Man.

Posted by: ADKC | Feb 13 2019 10:35 utc | 81

Here might the subject matter that Russia Gate sought to camouflage
'This comes as US Energy Secretary Rick Perry has been holding secret talks with Saudi officials on sharing US nuclear technology.'

finally, a hypothesis to explain
1. why the Joint non nuclear agreement with Iran and the other nuclear power nations, that prevented Iran from developing nuclear weapons, was trashed? Someone needs to be able to say Iran is developing ..., at the right time.
2. Why Netanyohu made public a video that claimed Iran was developing nuclear stuff in violation of the Iran non nuclear agreement, and everybody laughed,
3. Why the nuclear non proliferation agreement with Russia, that terminated the costly useless arms race a decade ago,
has been recently terminated, to reestablish the nuclear arms race, no apparent reason was given the implication might be Russia could be a target, but
4. why it might make sense to give nukes to Saudi Arabia or some other rogue nation, and
5. why no one is allowed to have nuclear weapons except the Zionist owned and controlled nation states.

Statement: Zionism is an economic system that requires the elimination of all competition of whatever kind. It is a winner get's all, takes no prisoners, targets all who would threaten or be a challenge or a threat; does not matter if the threat is in in oil and gas, technology or weapons as soon as a possibility exist, the principles of Zionism would require that it be taken out, decimated, and destroyed and made where never again it could even remotely be a threat to the Empire, that Zionism demands..

Hypothesis: A claim that another is developing nuclear weapon capabilities is sufficient to take that other out?

Posted by: snake | Feb 13 2019 11:08 utc | 82

james, jen, spudski, bevin

Look at the interviews of Seth Rich's family on Youtube. The interviews are just weird. And the Seth Rich family has acted in a weird way too.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 13 2019 12:21 utc | 83

Seymour Hersh, surreptitiously taped while discussing Seth Rich's murder.

Seymour Hersh discussing Wikileaks DNC leaks Seth Rich & FBI report (6:30 min)

Posted by: pantaraxia | Feb 13 2019 13:07 utc | 84

I am glad that most commenters understand that Russiagate will not go away. But the majority appear to miss the real reason. Russiagate is not an accusation, it is the state of mind.

At the beginnng of Russiagate, I wrote on Robert Parry’s Consirtium News that Russiagate is Idiocracy piggy-backing on decades and literally billions of dollars of anti-Soviet and anti-Russian propaganda. How hard would it be to brainwash an already brainwashed population?

The purveyors of Russiagate will re-compose themselves, brush off all reports and continue on. One just cannot get away from one’s nature, even when that nature is pure idiocy. Of course, the most ironic in the affair is that it is the so called US “intellectuals”, academics and other assorted cretins who are the most fervent proponents. If you were wondering how Russia can make such amazing defensive weapons that US can only deny exist and wet dream of having, there is your answer. It is the state of mind. The whole of US establishment are legends in their on lunch time and totally delusional about the reality surrounding them - both Russiagate and MAGA cretins, no report can help the Russiagate nation.

Finally, I am thinking of that crazy and ugly professor bitch from the British Cambridge University who gives her lectures naked to protest something or other. I am so lucky that I do not have to go to a Western university ever again. What a catastrophic decline! No Brexit can help the Skripal nation.

Posted by: Kiza | Feb 13 2019 13:26 utc | 85

As you consider the weirdness of the Rich family, also keep in mind the substantial efforts made to discredit and disable Assange/Wikileaks and Trump's call, in summer 2016) for Putin to release Hillary's lost emails.

The timeline is as follows:
January 2016
FBI report says Hillary emails contained highly classified info
By this time, Trump has all but locked up the GOP nomination - Michael Bloomberg makes urgent public announcement that may enter the race to prevent Sanders and Trump from winning.

February 2016
Never Trump Movement is born

March/April 2016
Trump hires Manafort

May 2016
DNC is hacked

June 2016
Trump Jr. meets with Russians that say they have info about Hillary

July 2016
Wikileaks publishes DNC emails (July 22)
Trump calls on Putin to release Hillary's lost emails (July 28)

July 2016
Manafort resigns/is fired

September 2016
Flynn signs agreement with Turk company Inovo BV: $500k "sweatheart deal"

October 2016
Assange's Internet access is terminated for the first time due to "election interference" by publishing DNC emails

November 2016
Flynn's agreement with Turk company ends on election day (Nov 8)
Flynn accepts position as National Security Advisor (Nov 18)

January 2017
Flynn is under investigation due to his work for Inovo BV
Chuck Schumer says Intel agencies "have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you"

February 2017
Trump fires Flynn after he is evasive/untruthful about his conversation with Russian Ambassador

>> Trump's positioning as pro-Russia was bolstered by his hiring pro-Russia Manafort who has links to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska. This is a strange choice for the "America First" Trump campaign.

>> Assange/Wikileaks and Flynn are all ultimately snared by anti-Russia hysteria. Wikileaks would later be described as a "hostile intelligence agency" and Assange as a "Russian agent".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 13 2019 13:39 utc | 86

Russiagate is finished, but is DJT also among the rubble?

Hardly any money for the border wall and still lingering in the ME?

If Hoarsewhisperer proves to be correct above re: DJT, he will really have to knock our socks off before election 2020. To do this he will have to unequivocally and unceremoniously withdraw from the MENA and Afghanistan and possibly declare a National Emergency for more money for the wall.

The problem is, when he does this, he will look impulsively dangerous and this may harm his mystique to the lemmings who need a president to be more "presidential."

My money is on status quo all the way to 2020 and the rethugz hoping the Dems will eat their own in an orgy of warring identities.

I would love to be proven wrong.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 13 2019 13:46 utc | 87

Rush Limbaugh has been on a roll with his analysis of Russiagate, in fact, his analysis is in line with the writer/editor here at MOA.

Posted by: morongobill | Feb 13 2019 14:52 utc | 88

My money is on status quo all the way to 2020 and the rethugz hoping the Dems will eat their own in an orgy of warring identities.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 13, 2019 8:46:48 AM | 88

Trump is rarely happy with the status quo. My money says he'll pull his own rabbit out of the hat for 2020; unlike 2016 when Comey produced the killer (email) rabbit for him, a week or so before Election Day.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2019 15:14 utc | 89

james @75

CM does say this in a December 2016 post:
[The overall extract is between the lines below.]

I had a call from a Guardian journalist this afternoon. The astonishing result "was that for three hours, an article was accessible through the Guardian front page which actually included the truth among the CIA hype:

"The Kremlin has rejected the hacking accusations, while the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has previously said the DNC leaks were not linked to Russia. A second senior official cited by the Washington Post conceded that intelligence agencies did not have specific proof that the Kremlin was “directing” the hackers, who were said to be one step removed from the Russian government.
Craig Murray, the former UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, who is a close associate of Assange, called the CIA claims “bullshit”, adding: “They are absolutely making it up.”
“I know who leaked them,” Murray said. “I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.
“If what the CIA are saying is true, and the CIA’s statement refers to people who are known to be linked to the Russian state, they would have arrested someone if it was someone inside the United States.
“America has not been shy about arresting whistleblowers and it’s not been shy about extraditing hackers. They plainly have no knowledge whatsoever.”

But only three hours. While the article was not taken down, the home page links to it vanished and it was replaced by a ludicrous one repeating the mad CIA allegations against Russia and now claiming – incredibly – that the CIA believe the FBI is deliberately blocking the information on Russian collusion.


Thanks for the info. The Seth Rich story always bothered me. I also recall that in one article CM was quoted as saying that who he got the leaked materials was not "the source." Was the original source SR?

Posted by: spudski | Feb 13 2019 15:38 utc | 90

The collusion story may be faltering, but the blame for Russia poisoning the Skripals lives on.

The other night on The News Hour, "Judy" led off the program with this:

"It has been almost a year since Kremlin intelligence officers attempted to kill a Russian defector in the British city of Salisbury by poisoning him with a nerve agent.
That attack, and the subsequent death of a British woman, scared away tourists and shoppers, but authorities and residents are working to get the town’s economy
back on track. Special correspondent Malcolm Brabant reports."

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Feb 13 2019 15:52 utc | 91

Agree that the whole investigation was a diversion and a waste, and I haven't read all the comments above, but I would note that the senate is still controlled by the Republicans, so it's not surprising that their report would support the President.

Posted by: mpn | Feb 13 2019 16:00 utc | 92

Re: Trump exposing contradictions and inconsistencies...

Jerusalem-gate vs Venezuela-gate.

1. How many of AmerikKKa's Christian Colonial allies embraced his "Jerusalem Is The Capital Of Israel" ambush?
2. How many of AmerikKKa's Christian Colonial allies embraced his "Let's Cripple And Loot Venezuela's Economy" ambush?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2019 16:02 utc | 93

fu guardian.
Hello "pretzelattack",

When you take issue with Editorial decisions of the Guardian, the Moderation team is the wrong place to address it. You would have better luck following the procedures outlined on

As far as upholding our Community Standards is concerned, The Guardian has decided to stand by the article and thus The Guardian views comments such as yours as misrepresentation.

There is also the matter that most of your removed comments are Off Topic for the discussions on which you post them, which breaches point 8 of our Community Standards.

8. Keep it relevant. We know that some conversations can be wide-ranging, but if you post something which is unrelated to the original topic (“off-topic”) then it may be removed, in order to keep the thread on track. This also applies to queries or comments about moderation, which should not be posted as comments.

Premoderation is usually only a temporary measure. Post consistently in line with the community standards you agreed to abide by when creating your account and the sanction will be lifted and full commenting privileges restored to your account. Post consistently against the spirit of the community standards and you risk a permanent ban.

Best wishes


Community Moderator

Links: The Guardian’s Community Standards & FAQs

this was about the blatant bullshit, by luke harding, about assange and manning meeting at the ecuadoran embassy in london. "the guardian stands by the story" by censoring critical comments, while never bothering to try to defend the actual reporting. of course, that would be difficult since there is no evidence that manafort somehow whisked himself (maybe a dr. who tardis) in and out of one of the most heavily surveilled sites in the world. "independent journalism" at its finest.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 13 2019 16:07 utc | 94

Posted by: spudski | Feb 13, 2019 10:38:17 AM | 91

Congratulations nitwit.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 13 2019 16:24 utc | 95


That is odd - an insult in response to my linking to a Craig Murray link.

Posted by: spudski | Feb 13 2019 16:31 utc | 96

Russiagate will not go away unfortunately because it has evolved in the "Russiagate Industry". As mentioned by others, the Russiagate Industry has been very profitable for many industries and people. Russiagate has generated an entire cottage industry of companies around censorship and "find us a Russian". Dow Jones should have an index on the Russiagate Industry.

Here is one recent example. You know the measles outbreak in the US Pacific Northwest. Yup, the Russians. How do we know. A government funded research grant. The study found that 899 tweets caused people to doubt vaccines. Looks like money is to be had even by academics for the right results.

Measles outbreak: Anti-vaccination misinformation fueled by Russian propagandists, study finds

Posted by: Erelis | Feb 13 2019 17:15 utc | 97

@84/87 jr / @91 spudski... thanks for all that.. i tend to believe julian assange when he says the stakes are very high when one is involved in sharing information that could be detrimental others - a large organization in particular, and etc.. i suppose the 2 choices here are one believes either seth rich was murdered in a bad part of washington dc - conceivable, or that someone knew he had passed the emails and wanted to kill him for it.. if you believe 2 - then you have to come up with a reason for why they had to kill him.. the reason jr appears to offer is it makes russia and wikileaks the 2 main suspects, as opposed to seth rich.. and on and on it goes.. i lean towards the later view which jr articulates, but i don't expect to ever find out..

@ 97 spudski... someone is faking hoarsewhisperer?? weird either way...

Posted by: james | Feb 13 2019 17:18 utc | 98

@99 james

Thank you.

Posted by: spudski | Feb 13 2019 17:22 utc | 99

Meanwhile US meddling in Europe against Russia,

Revolution is the new black: How Western money funds overthrow-your-government classes

Posted by: Zanon | Feb 13 2019 17:38 utc | 100

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