Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 23, 2019

Venezuela - U.S. Again Tries Regime Change Which Is Again Likely To Fail

The U.S. has been intervening in oil-rich Venezuela since at least the early 2000. Several U.S. backed attempts to oust the elected socialist government, first under Chavez and then under Maduro, failed. But the economic sanctions by the U.S. and its lackeys have made the life for business and the people in Venezuela more difficult. With access to international financial markets cut off, the government did its best to work around the sanctions. It, for example, bartered gold for food from Turkey. But the Bank of England, which is custodian of some of Venezuela's gold, has now practically confiscated it.

The Trump administration is launching another attempt to kick the elected government led by President Maduro out of office. Today the usually hapless opposition in Venezuela is set to launch another period of street riots against the government. It calls on the military to take over:

Opposition leaders are also urging Venezuela's powerful armed forces to withdraw their support for Maduro. And they are taking their campaign abroad by lobbying foreign governments to cut diplomatic and economic ties with Caracas.

On Tuesday, U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence said that Washington would support any effort by the opposition to form a provisional government to replace Maduro. Addressing average Venezuelans, Pence added: "We stand with you and we will stay with you until democracy is restored."

President Trump is now expected to recognize the opposition leader in the National Congress Juan Guaidó, who does not have a majority in the country, as the nations president.


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But the National Congress no longer has legal power. In 2017 that role was taken over by the elected Constitutional Assembly, which supports the Venezuelan government. The Venezuelan Supreme Court ratified the change. That Guaidó may be called president by Trump does not make him such.

Juan Guaidó, the self declared 'opposition leader', is just a telegenic stand in for the right wing leader Leopold Lopez, who in 2014 was jailed after inciting violent protests during which several people died. Lopez, now under house arrest, is a Princeton and Harvard educated son of the political and financial nobility of Venezuela, which lost its position when the people elected a socialist government. Lopez is the man the U.S. wants to put in charge even while he is much disliked. A U.S. diplomatic cable, published by Wikileaks, remarks that he "is often described as arrogant, vindictive, and power-hungry".

The poor were the winner of the socialist changes. The socialists, first under President Hugo Chavez and now under Nicolas Maduro, used the profits from oil exports to build housing for the poor and to generally lower their plight. These masses will be called upon to protect their government and gains.

The military, which the U.S. already secretly tried to instigate stage a coup, is unlikely to do so. It does well under the socialists and has no interest in changing that. The U.S. also tried to incite Brazil and Columbia to invade their neighbor. But neither country is capable of doing such. The U.S. itself is also unlikely to invade. At the United Nation Venezuela has Russia's and China's support.

Like in 2017 we can expect several weeks of violent protests in Caracas, during which tens or hundreds of police and protester may die. There will also be a lot of howling from the U.S. aligned media. But unless there is some massive change in the political and power configuration, the demonstrations are likely to petter out.

Has the Trump administration a consistent game plan to achieve such a change in the balance of power? I for one doubt that.

Posted by b on January 23, 2019 at 17:54 UTC | Permalink

Comments
« previous page

Don Bacon, because there are legitimate criticisms to be made about Maduro, particularly criticisms from the left, which sites like Venezuela Analysis, who are totally supportive of the Bolivarian Revolution and who as such are forcefully opposed to all US imperial interventions, make regularly. The Communist Party of Venezuela also makes several legitimate criticisms of the Maduro government, whilst nonetheless backing him in the last election, because, as I mention in my comment, they are aware that the concrete choice is between Maduro or a US-backed, neoliberal regime.

In addition and separately, in certain situations when speaking or writing to a certain person or audience, one must make certain concessions in order for ears to open, otherwise one gets caught in an echo chamber speaking only to the already-converted.

Posted by: George Lane | Jan 24 2019 3:53 utc | 101

I declare myself!" - these are classic words now, so rich with irony, the sort of irony so well loved by the US elites and those of the Hegemon's vassal states. It has been frightening to watch the US roll back government after government in South and Central America, using slightly different tactics each time. This ravening need to control is the true mark of the beast. Venezuela was the hardest nut to crack. The US really had to 'make that economy scream'.

Posted by: paul | Jan 24 2019 4:05 utc | 102

@ George Lane | Jan 23, 2019 10:53:56 PM | 113
{Why criticize Maduro] . . . because there are legitimate criticisms to be made about Maduro

But-
1. legitimate: conforming to the law or to rules
2. So criticism is illegal and dangerous given the US proclivity toward imperialistic regime change.
3. The UN charter tells us to mind our own business:
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED - to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind . .
AND FOR THESE ENDS -
> to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
> to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
> to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
> to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples, . .
PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES
The Organization and its Members, in pursuit of the Purposes stated in Article 1, shall act in accordance with the following Principles.
> The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members.
> All Members, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership, shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present Charter.
> All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered.
> All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 4:13 utc | 103

Okay Don I don't see what the disagreement is. I am also totally opposed to US imperialism, as is quite clear in my comments, if you would respond to more than only a cherry-picked sentence.

Posted by: George Lane | Jan 24 2019 4:16 utc | 104

The US government is shut down and the president isn't allowed to speak in the House of Representatives, and yet the US has time to criticize other countries?

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 4:18 utc | 105

Don, if you had read my comment fully, it would be clear that I was speaking of legitimate>/i> criticisms of Maduro; the criticisms made by the US Empire are not legitimate, they are made in bad faith, ignoring as they do their own role in the devastation of the country.

Posted by: George Lane | Jan 24 2019 4:21 utc | 106

@ George Lane | Jan 23, 2019 11:16:16 PM | 116
I don't see what the disagreement is
I told you -- you think that US criticism of Venezuela is legitimate and it isn't, and illegitimate criticism can lead to war as has been discussed here reference Venezuela.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 4:22 utc | 107

If ever there was a time to criticize Maduro, today is not that time. Venezuela is at war. Maduro and his family could easily be dead within days. Even so, he has to hold the country. He hasn't fled from his position granted by the choice of the people, he hasn't compromised the people's will regarding the nation's sovereignty. The nation's Supreme Court and military support him. So I see nothing to criticize him for on this day at least.

He is also up against the strongest power that the combined capitalist-imperialist force of the world can muster in this age, and we shall have to wait to see if that's enough to put this country down.

Might rather be a good time to pray for Maduro, and his country, or at least root for them if praying isn't one's thing.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 24 2019 4:24 utc | 108

Whereas the WH, State, Central,and too many senators have been pulling a prolonged stunt at Venezuela and without success.
Therefore a new approach is called for.
Therefore The Good Neighbor Policy needs to be adopted.
Resolve to recognize neighborly respect for the people of the world by acting like a good neighbor to every country.
Resolve to mind your own business as a good neighbor should.

Posted by: Union Horse | Jan 24 2019 4:28 utc | 109

Don again, you are the one reading into my comment that the US Empire's criticism is legitimate. As the comment makes clear, I was referring to criticism from the left by the likes of Venezuela Analysis. Please read fully before replying next time.

Posted by: George Lane | Jan 24 2019 4:32 utc | 110

re: george Lane and Don Bacon above. Of course there is going to be criticisms of Modura from the left. That is the nature of the left. Venezuela is not some Stalinist state. There actually is a left wing political position that criticizes the government openly. I think both of you guys are on the same side (as I am) and there are some serious discussions going on in that country on how to resist US imperial intervention. Answers to this problem are not simple. As I pointed out above the US could easily crush the current Venezuela military forces with an outright attack using our air forces and ground attacks from Columbia and Brazil. The problem for the US military: would that be sufficient to neutralize the Chavez-Modura political movement? I don't think so. And I suspect there are many people in the US military who would agree.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 24 2019 4:40 utc | 111

@102 ToiovoS

I know Fort Russ is nowadays a dubious place (although departed founder Kristina Rus will always be a heroine of the struggle to me), and I didn't want to cite them but I couldn't pull up the Military Watch site to verify and cite that source. The material seemed plausibly quoted, and now the site comes up we can see that it was.

Thanks to Don Bacon @110 for the link to the Military Watch source.

The point is not that the US couldn't simply overwhelm Venezuela with its air power but that it would have to be done at a cost. I truly think you couldn't hide the downed planes, the dead and captured soldiers, the potential even for a US ship to take a hit. At that point I would say Trump would be in serious trouble politically. And the Pentagon knows it would be Vietnam all over again. It's too close to home, the stories couldn't be hidden.

So I hope that the perspective of some here is the true one, that no overt military action will occur. I'm making that bet myself, but I'm not completely certain how far the US will go in order to fail.

The US is really painting itself into a corner with its diplomats right now. I guess actually they could be held in detention. A quasi hostage situation would allow the US months and months of time to posture and blow smoke out its ass and never actually commit troops.

And one day the Russians show up. Gives the US the perfect out. The longer this thing goes without soldiers, the better for the outcome.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 24 2019 4:43 utc | 112

One last thing - I do recommend a quick read of the Military Watch analysis, parts 1 & 2 - they're quite succinct.

US military action against Venezuela would NOT be easy. It's fraught with risk. US weaponry will go against Russian weaponry, and if the US performance is humiliated, this poses a real and serious risk for global arms sales. That may sound sarcastic, but it's not intended as such - I suspect this is the prime thought in the minds of the war machine.

Here's that link: How Capable is Venezuela of Defending its Airspace? Part One

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 24 2019 4:55 utc | 113

The recognition of a new “legitimate” Venezualan government is an orchestrated event, and follows a road map published several weeks ago by the so-called Lima Group.

The western mainstream media has adopted a new revisionist, and incorrect, line that the opposition parties were “banned” from last year’s elections. The opposition boycotted, because they knew they could not win. Some opposition politicians were not permitted to run due to legal decisions, but the same had happened in Brazil without similar controversy. A double standard promoted by the Lima Group.

Yet to see any hard numbers on attendance at Wednesday’s rallies.

Canada’s Trudeau government had originally planned on appointing a different more seasoned and intelligent Foreign Minister but backroom polticking promoted Freeland. What a disaster this has proved to be, as her amateur public-relations based ideological hypocrisy has badly damaged the national interest for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: jayc | Jan 24 2019 4:58 utc | 114

Thanks Grieved for the military analysis link, not the kind of thing I read often.

Posted by: George Lane | Jan 24 2019 5:14 utc | 115

I have been trying to determine what the big picture goal is for the elite and I keep coming back to posturing before US bankruptcy.

They have to know that their future is limited and they want to wrangle the best deal they can on the way down.......including immunity from prosecution for war crimes.

The next few months are going to be interesting it seems.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 24 2019 5:53 utc | 117

Maduro must go.

Posted by: Fernando Arauxo | Jan 24 2019 6:13 utc | 118

Kudos to karlof1, and others, for pointing out that January 23 is a day of National Celebration in Venezuela. So it's very un-surprising that there are lots of Venezuelans in the streets to participate as they see fit.
My initial attempt to confirm January 23 as a significant date in Venezuela failed (thanks for nothing Google and Wikipedia). It wasn't until I searched 'Venezuela January 23rd anniversary' that info appeared confirming 23rd January, 2019, as the 61st Anniversary of a significant event in Venezuela's History.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24 2019 6:49 utc | 119

Fernando, why? What's in it for you?

Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 24 2019 7:00 utc | 120

"Elsewhere in the Americas, Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Guatemala, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, and Peru all followed suit within two hours of the US move. They were also joined by the Organization of American States (OAS), as well as Canada." These countries are disclosing themselves as official satrapies and poodles of the United States, in violation of international law. This issue may force nations of the world to choose sides: Do they support international law regarding the sovereignty of countries or not? It is high time that this issue was forced to the surface, rather than ignored, brushed aside, or otherwise dismissed in an attempt to avoid confrontation with the US. The EU has not yet taken a position. We will see if it folds or defends international law. This is a more blatant violation than Maidan; the hypocrisy of those supporting the US position is egregiously blatant.

Posted by: JNDillard | Jan 24 2019 7:04 utc | 121

For the USA to fight a war with Russia and or China they would first have to invade South America to secure its resources, without them its doomed in that scenario. Us military presence in South America will be the first major step towards the conflict of our time.

Posted by: Jdl | Jan 24 2019 7:34 utc | 123

It may have escaped the notice of some BUT....

Russia despatched two White Swans on a very long flight to Venezuela recently. They flew some training flights with the Venezuelan air force up as far as Cuba (just to make a point). Russia has been offered the use of an offshore Venezuelan island as an air base. All this was reported at the time by RT. The two White Swans were accompanied on that long flight by two other aircraft, a large passenger jet and an enormous transport plane carrying who knows what. I read the Military watch link...very interesting. Venezuela already has deployed S300 A2AD systems.
What if the large transport plane had been carrying upgraded S300 equipment for delivery and the White Swans were just a big diversion? What if the passenger jet had been carrying air defence specialists to beef up training?
You can't carry out a credible invasion without air cover (think Bay of Pigs), and if target nation now has upgraded air defences then forget the use of ground forces. Also, cant S300s be used in an anti-shipping role?
If my musing is in any way correct, would this not affect any 'easy invasion' calculus?

Posted by: Emmanuel Goldstein | Jan 24 2019 7:53 utc | 124

@librul #20: Thanks for ruining the thread, man. Seriously, how hard is it to click "Preview" button to check that your comment is properly formatted?

Posted by: S | Jan 24 2019 9:49 utc | 125

JNDillard

The EU has not yet taken a position. We will see if it folds or defends international law. This is a more blatant violation than Maidan; the hypocrisy of those supporting the US position is egregiously blatant.

Unfortunately EU support the coup (see link below), this is obvious criminal interference!

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/venezuela-us-again-tries-regime-change-it-is-likely-to-fail.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef022ad3b64d50200d

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 24 2019 9:51 utc | 126

"The poor were the winner of the socialist changes. The socialists, first under President Hugo Chavez and now under Nicolas Maduro, used the profits from oil exports to build housing for the poor and to generally lower their plight."

The socialists destroyed the currency. How can destroying the currency, thus raising the economic burden on the public exactly help the poor? Money is only worth what it can buy. Savers are wiped out. Why would anyone save or invest in Venezuela?

Shitty public housing and a regime that keeps every one in poverty and at the same time a police state that represses any dissent?
What a wonderful world Bernard!

Posted by: 76239x39 | Jan 24 2019 10:02 utc | 127

Official statement of the Russian Foreign Ministry in connection with the events in Venezuela.

Posted by: alaff | Jan 24 2019 10:19 utc | 128

@137 Zanon Well, I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you....

Are you really trying to suggest that the events in Venezuela aren't the direct result of Russian collusion?

Who are you, and what have you done with the real Zanon?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 24 2019 10:25 utc | 129

@ 138 i think i will trust the poeple of venezuela, who prefter maduro over some us imposed pupptet, to determine what is best for them, not someone with an axe to grind against socialism;

Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 24 2019 10:37 utc | 130

Yeah Right

You think Russia is behind Venezuela coup? That makes no sense.

As for Russia, I believe they should put a resolution in the UNSC, you agree with me?

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 24 2019 10:58 utc | 131

It would have been worse under Hillary! She is the real Warmonger!!!

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jan 24 2019 11:07 utc | 132

ADKC says:

I'm very disappointed that, so far, Tulsi Gabbard seems to be silent (like AOC & the rest) on the issue

well, they weren't silent on Tuesday. the Democrats voted overwhelmingly, like, i mean EVERY one of them, to pass the Nato Support Act.

no equivocation there. just paving the way towards more war.

Posted by: john | Jan 24 2019 11:15 utc | 133

Interestingly, Maduro gets biggest social media support in the world from Turkish public. The Turkish govt too supports Maduro along with Syrian govt.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Jan 24 2019 11:21 utc | 134

Twitter drops Venezuela related tags from the TT list especially the #WeAreMaduro tag which received a record number of tweets is now lost in the cybertrashyard.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Jan 24 2019 12:15 utc | 135

@ Posted by: 76239x39 | Jan 24, 2019 5:02:25 AM | 138

You're presupposing the Venezuelan people was swimming on monetary savings before the socialists came to power, in 1999. This isn't true: Venezuela was a Subsaaran African country, where people were literally starving to death daily.

This "currency argument" is pretty much a middle class/petit bourgeoisie psalm. They use this argument a lot in Brazil too. It fail to acknowledge the vast majority of the Latin American people don't have, never had any savings at all.

What first worlders commenting here fail to realize is that Venezuela was a literal shithole before Chávez took power. What seems to the First World as innefective, even dishonest reforms are extremely revolutionary for the standards of the Third World. Venezuela didn't have a universal basic education system, it didn't have a social security system before Chávez took office in 1999. Things the First World take for granted are an utopia to the Third World.

So, yes, to the Venezuelan standards, what happened in 1999 was revolutionary. That's why the majority of the Venezuelan people is willing to face the biggest empire humanity has ever built to defend it.

Posted by: vk | Jan 24 2019 12:33 utc | 136

What level of failure does it take for you guys to illegitimate a leftist government.
If starving citizens with an average loss of 11KGs per person don't convince you ...
It's almost as if people are not real for you, they are just political abstractions that can be sorted into good guys and bad guys... sounds just like old school Moho (peanut butter be upon him) ... I guess its been the same shit every day since the crucifixion. You devils.

Posted by: Northern Observer | Jan 24 2019 12:52 utc | 137

Speaking of AOC, she of the 2 million or so followers; Rush Limbaugh pointed out yesterday that she is a total media creation and may be very close to being torn down by them if she keeps crossing other powerful democratic players and interests....

Ah, the Great Game continues in the Imperial capitol.

Posted by: morongobill | Jan 24 2019 13:10 utc | 138

remember this?

https://www.mintpressnews.com/new-york-times-compares-venezuelas-leopoldo-lopez-to-martin-luther-king/238545/

the MSM has been helping to pave the way for this coup attempt, and of course now cheerleading it...

Posted by: tricia | Jan 24 2019 13:48 utc | 139

I hereby ask Trump and Pence to step down and I declare Pelosi 'Interim President' until fair a election can be held.

Posted by: Ger | Jan 24 2019 13:54 utc | 140

There is some chance that the Venezuela coup may be successful, contrary to the above analysis.
Facebook and Instagram have removed Maduro authenticity marks, Wikipedia decides Guaido is the leader of the country. Russia doesn't have the resources to back Maduro militarily. Maduro orders US diplomats out which if the US diplomats refuse to leave the country puts Maduro in a very risky position: a) the crowd may consider he is not strong enough b) if Maduro pushes harder the US will have a reason for a military intervention.

Canadian people are more interested in Trudeau's colourful socks (meaning their heads are kept down), the Europeans fear yellow vest wearing headchopers spit on their white helmets (meaning Eurozone has already been tamed by means of lashes), Brazilian and Colombian leaders are waiting trigger happy, Germany is energy hungary... Maduro is not in a strong position.

Meanwhile a long haul Turkish private jet left Russia to land in Venezuela. That is interesting.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Jan 24 2019 13:59 utc | 141

Northern Observer @ #137

Do you know why there is shortage of food and basic items in Venezuela? There is an economic war being waged by local elites, which smuggle various goods to Colombia and Brazil instead of selling them to the locals. If the people of Venezuela are starving, it is not Maduro to blame. The corrupt elites, backed by the US, are pointing the hunger gun at their own people. If Maduro is to be blamed for something, it is for not dealing properly with these saboteurs: the government should be jailing them, confiscating their wealth and socializing their means of production.

Posted by: Miranda | Jan 24 2019 14:05 utc | 142

@132 ralphieboy

Trump and Hillary are the ying and yang of the same U.S. political racket.

Here's Trump cheering on the attempted coup.

Trump TWIT

Here's Russia replying HANDS OFF.

Russia warns Trump

The U.S. has reason to worry. Rosneft has a lien on Citgo, that refines and distributes Venezuelan oil in the U.S. Although, Venezuela is still the majority owner of Citgo, Rosneft technically owns 49.9% which represents collateral offered by Venezuela for a 1.5 billion-dollar loan that Russia gave Venezuela 2 years ago. The U.S. views Russia's collateral ownership, lien, as a security threat and has been trying to get Rosneft to sell its lien to U.S. investors.

I don't see this happening. We're headed for another U.S.-manufactured mess. U.S. sanctions, basically a financial nuclear weapon of imperial tyranny, put Venezuela's leaders in an impossible situation to even try to rescue the economy. Oil output, Venezuela's largest source of revenue, has been halved over the past few years because of U.S. sanctions.

This has been a U.S. attempted takeover in the making for years that Trump has been trying to complete since he took office. This is regime change and Trump is proud to own it!

It's like I wrote earlier: he's an extension of his predecessors, a Zionist Neocon who pretended to be a populist.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 24 2019 14:26 utc | 143

Western states that have openly recognized the coup leader:

US
Canda
UK
Sweden
Kosovo

Along with the EU leader's support.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Guaid%C3%B3#/media/File:Venezuela_president_recognition_map_2019.svg

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 24 2019 14:30 utc | 144

A Chinese/Russian UN resolution would be great now, that would atleast put a break on western regime plans on Venezuela and show how dangerous the same west act.

If Maduro survives this coup attempt, he really really needs help. He will face western backed militias, sabotage, propaganda, sanctions permanently.

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 24 2019 14:38 utc | 145

As the 72 or so hr crossroads unfolds we are lead to believe that there will be a military incursion lead by the USA and supported by the list of South American countries listed above. Over the last decade or so the leadership of the Americas have been bought, bribed or replaced, and thus the dominoes have fallen.
Venezuela has been blockaded and surrounded. Everything so far has been tried to unseat the leadership which is not hospitable to corporate interests. Destroying the economy to make the masses rise up has not worked, even though it has made life miserable for most. Assassination has not been successful so far.
So now what we have is an open call to arms and an outright proclamation of a coup broadcast to the world in an attempt to have all countries weigh in.
A squaring off of sorts.
Meddling and sabotage from a safe distance is one thing, launching a war for all to see is quite another. The rape of Libya was a new angle of destruction and should have caused more outrage than it did. But it was spun and massaged, the whole business being a new model of business. The USA stood back let the Euros do the bombing, like a prison gang initiation. Not so high and mighty anymore? It appears that the USA has reached an impasse with it's Venezuela operations and it now at the tipping point. But once this balance tips toward a war footing the laws of physics change drastically as does the socio-political landscape. When the gloves come off things become unpredictable, and chaos reigns. Wars are not what they used to be. Events pile up and create barricades throughout the material and informational world. Countermeasures come out of hiding and foil the best laid plans. No army can simply come in and occupy a nation determined to resist without shedding much blood and treasure. Is it realistic to expect Colombia and Brazil to invade and occupy Venezuela? It can reasonably be assumed that there would be considerable pushback from the people of these nations. Despite stooges being in control of the capitols, I cannot imagine that entire armies would allow themselves to be pitted against each other like dogs at the behest of the gringoes from the north. Propagandize all you want, it would still feel like being used as cannon-fodder and I imagine most people in the Americas have a pretty bad tase in their mouth in that regard.
Interesting point made by an above poster to the effect that if the USA officially recognizes their relatively unknown stooge and not the acting president, then by their own justification they could "send in the troops" in whatever form that may take. It's like proclaiming an illusion to be real, and enlisting enough constituents to agree and then act. The question remains: what actions will those be. In regard to the notion that the US air force could crush and nation in 24 hours I call BS. Sure you can destroy infrastructure, and make life hell but at the end of the day you have not invaded and you do not control. Then there are the AD systems in place.
What did the Russians deliver? How will non-aligned nations respond? Does anyone seriously think that the USA will send any real troop concentrations, other than some School of the Americas killers?? Based on what we are looking at generally, it's either launch or step back for USA & Co.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 24 2019 14:48 utc | 146

@142 Miranda

dr. NO 137 is a hasbara troll who slithered into yesterday's thread spewing Zionist filth against Palestinians and those who support their resistance. I see's he's back with yet another Zionist stink 💣, but his jig is up.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 24 2019 14:49 utc | 147

@ Emmanuel Goldstein | Jan 24, 2019 2:53:52 AM | 124
You can't carry out a credible invasion without air cover
See my 98 on air cover.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 15:06 utc | 148

I disagree with b's take on this. I think it's much more serious than 2017. The concerted campaign of delegitimization, the refusal to remove diplomats (has this ever occured in the history of diplomacy?), it's all very serious. When the coup in the capital fails, what they'll probably do is they'll engineer a rebellion in a province next to Colombia, then, as Maduro tries to quell it, they'll say he's "killing his own people", probably add some rape stories for good measure, and introduce a "no-fly zone" (i.e., saturation bombing of air defences) or, better yet, a naval blockade. People dying as a result of the blockade will, of course, be presented as "the victims of socialism".

Posted by: S | Jan 24 2019 15:15 utc | 149

All this is straight out of the Adolph Hitler game plan, with modern refinement’s. Just another country being invaded by the facist US/UK /Israel nazi’s. One more victem country to fall prey to there warmongering and economic subversion.
Meanwhile our own country’s have now lost any semblance of democracy!
Hitler said if he had been confronted early enough he could easily have been stopped! I fear things have gone way to far for us now.
Gas chamber here we come.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 24 2019 15:29 utc | 150

Wayne Madsen reminds us of a similar situation recently concerning the attempted regime change in Syria. (It was engineered by Hillary and didn't work.)

quote
In 2013, the Syrian opposition established a rival “interim government” based in Azaz, Syria, that was in opposition to the “de facto” and “de jure” government of President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus. The “interim government” was backed by Turkey, the United States, Saudi Arabia, and others, but it has all-but-dissolved following Assad’s overall victory in the Syrian civil war. Assad’s government retained the support of Russia, Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea, and Venezuela. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 15:29 utc | 151

Catching up with the thread this morning I see commenter numbers are off by about 10 posts, so I assume b took the moderator's knife to them. Given what did survive, they must have been pretty gruesome.

Military involvement always produces a flood of new trolls hastily mustered to work the shift. Understandably they lack finesses and compensate with zeal, using sheer brutality in their comments. I'm glad I'm not a moderator, and sorry that b has to do this work.

~~

I read a piece by George Galloway this morning, calling out the blatancy of this gangster move. I guess in the end what we're watching here is a head count of who's reading the MSM versus who's reading the truth.

This is an amazing propaganda risk that the US is taking with its domestic population. We theorize that people are getting hip to the lies, but we don't have any hard numbers. Venezuela may give us an indication of how close to the tipping point we are.

I checked out the American Conservative too, just to get a feel for Trump's base. What they have so far is just one piece from senior editor Daniel Larison, focusing on how provoking the government that commands the loyalty of the military simply puts US diplomats at risk. No judgment yet on the rightness or wrongness of Maduro. There's this:

Members of Congress need to start paying attention and they have to make clear that the president has no authority to order military action against anyone in Venezuela. They also need to demand answers from the administration about the process that led to the irresponsible decision to recognize the head of the National Assembly as the new president. The Venezuela Blunder Puts U.S. Diplomats at Risk

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 24 2019 15:31 utc | 152

S @ 149:
You make some decent points here. If the USA can raise enough selective outrage, be it diplomat expulsion, starving under the dictator, or "killing his own people" an air campaign and naval blockade can commence. As I mentioned above, the response to these things are the wild card.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 24 2019 15:35 utc | 153

@ Grieved
It looks like a clear case of collusion to me.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 15:38 utc | 154

I’ve been combing the corporate media looking for stories about President Guaido’s first full day in office but didn’t find a single one. He must be busy though. He’s got an ambassador to the US to appoint, ambassadors to all the countries that have recognized him, plus an ambassador to the UN. I’m curious if he will appoint a military chief of staff. He’ll want to drive around Caracas to receive the cheers of the multitudes.
Anything that fraud Maduro does to oppose President Guaido will be considered a coup by Trump. On the other hand, it is reassuring to read that Russia has given VZ an S300. Also reassuring to know VZ has Cuban military advisors. I’m confident a military and guerilla opposition has been well planned.

Posted by: Chas | Jan 24 2019 15:49 utc | 155

The real offence of the Bolivarians, the one that makes the US so angry and determined to bring down the regime, by any means, is that it is extremely democratic: it not only holds elections, it holds elections that are transparently fair. Everyone gets the vote and all the votes are counted.
What Chavez refused to do was to take the obvious course when dealing with foreign backed, violent, criminal opponents, which was to ban them from elections and drive them out of the country.
In effect what happened in Venezuela was that the wealthy were allowed to keep their ill gotten gains (they were let off far too lightly imo) provided that they obeyed the rules and restricted their oppositional activities to the democratic arena.
The result has been amazing: the opposition has largely controlled the media, it has retained its control of the commanding heights of the economy, it has been allowed every freedom except the right to buy elections, bribe the military or the judiciary. But it has lost every election held: the many have defied the few.
Elsewhere in Latin America-Cuba and Bolivia excepted- it has been if not easy at least possible to corrupt the democratic process by massive propaganda campaigns, financed by foreign spies, as in Brazil, run in conjunction with corrupt legal processes-spurious charges and corrupt legislatures. All that is needed is to control the media and the economy enough to provide a springboard for US interference. What we have seen is a series of coups pretending to be elections, followed by elections with predetermined results-as in Haiti, Honduras and elsewhere. In Haiti any threat to the Powers that Be are disqualified from running, in Honduras the count is fixed.
That is what the US and its puppets plan next in Venezuela. To the offence of being socialists the Bolivarians have added the unforgivable offence of showing how phony representative 'democracy' in the US and its satellites is.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 24 2019 16:04 utc | 156

I haven't yet read all the excellent commentary here, but my thought now is that impeachment proceedings must be initiated against all that have participated in this country, the US, in response to this outrageous declaration. I have been ambivalent against Trump's impeachment heretofore, but this is so blatantly unConstitutional it takes my breath away. I have just been reading Yves's account at nakedcapitalism.com and have posted there. I think rather than destabilizing Venezuela, this attempted coup (it can be called nothing less) is and will be a destabilizing concern for the US government if it does not begin impeachment proceedings at once. The formalities of Constitutional change must be followed, and that in no way means that we should imitate what Trump has attempted by installing a dubious contender for the position of President who has not been legitimately elected, namely Hillary. Nowhere in the US Constitution does such a transfer of power acquire legitimacy.

I pray for the citizenry of Venezuela that a peaceful response will ensure the viability of their state without conflict.

Posted by: juliania | Jan 24 2019 16:25 utc | 157

apologies if someone already posted it..

craig murrays view here..

Posted by: james | Jan 24 2019 16:39 utc | 158

@ bevin
The US was especially angered when Chavez acted to transfer operational control of U.S. companies Exxon Mobil, ConocoPhillips and Chevron, Britain’s BP, Norway’s Statoil and France’s Total involved in their projects developing the OPEC nation’s Orinoco crude reserve, one of the largest oil deposits outside the Middle East. Later, Venezuela grabbed some foreign-owned plants, recently including a General Motors automotive plant.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 24 2019 16:45 utc | 159

@Grieved 152

It's not really a gangster move. I think it's more than that.

Catholics and socialists have been losing ground to the evangelics and jewish finance capital in South America. Brazil alone has over 25m evangelics now and the country's leader won't even pick his tooth unless he first asks Israel's permission, pretty much the case amongst Lima countries.

Maduro has been subjected to 21 attempts against his rule so far.
Venezuela has Gold, Oil, Natural Gas and most importantly is one of the biggest opioid raw material supplier in the world. Any attempt to steal those resources requires far more organised, a rather colossal effort compared to any gangster move we can think of.

Maduro's voter base is now, what, 30-35% max? He can't resist for too long. Well, perhaps a final push can be considered as a gangster move, which is highly likely to topple him.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Jan 24 2019 16:58 utc | 160

I have not looked at Mexican newspapers. I haven't seen TVAzteca and Televisa reporting; my comment
is strictly for background: Mexico has a permanent policy of non-intervention in the affairs of other
countries. This is a principle that has never, to my knowledge, been violated; every Mexican knows of
this diplomatic posture, the historical result of having a bad neighbor who has multiply invaded you.

Mexico's non-intervention policy is more than famous. It is painted on thousands of school walls:

"Respect for the rights of others is peace" is an apothegm or teaching in a brief sentence of the liberal politician Benito Juárez (1806-1872), expressed in his manifesto to the Mexican nation on July 15, 1867, with which he sealed the final triumph of the Republic.

Second: Mexico's new President is a long-time "Leftist" with impeccible credentials in this regard.
Never, in his forty years in Mexico politics has AMLO been inconsistent: he's a died-in-wool leftist
and the legitimate heir of the tradition of Jose Marie Morelos, Benito Juarez, and Lazaro Cardenas.

In the final stages of the chaos to be caused by this aggressive pronouncement of the USA government (which is in line with the pattern and the formula of the post-colonial imperialism plantation model)
it is conceivable that this latest war-impulse will be settled and ultimately decided in Mexico; NOT by
force-of-arms, rather by unifying in-principle: Bolivarian and Mexican historical revolutionary resistance.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jan 24 2019 17:18 utc | 161

As someone who detests overreach when it comes to the term of hyper-centralization, I will admit a skepticism when it comes to the official news channels of these socialist nations. I would be willing to equate the "Yankees are fascists!" meme to the "orange-man bad!" one that we are saddled with here in the states. I would especially hold this to be true because the Yankee-go-home meme has the propagandizing effect of galvanizing feeble minds to yielding even more control to a hyper-centralized paradigm.

However, with the flurry of sanctions and economic warfare being unduly pressed against a people's livelihood, a la Iraq, Iran, and Syria, how could anyone not sniff out that this is an illegal attempt at a coup, and even goes against the long term interests of a saner U.S. Policy.

In the end, this whole affair is a tragedy, because it does not advance the Hegelian dialectic of capitalism and socialism. Which means, I think, that we will all still be in the dark of unrealized potential for the time being.

Posted by: Nemesiscalling | Jan 24 2019 17:21 utc | 162

Some updates:

1)it seems Guaidó fled to and is now hiding an embassy (therefore, he technically fled the country). If it is an American embassy, then, after 72 hours, the Venezuelan government will cut electricity, water and gas to the building. Guaidó should be besieged and starved to death, in order to dissuade future usurpers.
2)many photographs and videos claiming he has masses in his favour are fake.
3)the Venezuelan Armed Forces is with the Bolivarians and don't recognize Guaidó.
4)public support on the streets for the Revolution are overwhelmingly bigger than the support for the coup.
5)China and Russia are officially supporting the Bolivarian government.
6)Maduro continues to govern from the Miraflores Palace, in his normal functions.
7)What Guaidó did is against the Venezuelan Constitution, therfore he's a criminal.

Posted by: vk | Jan 24 2019 17:34 utc | 163

Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24, 2019 1:49:47 AM | 119

Thanks very much for acknowledging my reporting as the day's events unfolded. Too few bothered to read my efforts to inform.

Trump Resistance MIA is an excellent article. I just checked AOC's twitter and all she's done is retweet Ro Khanna's retort to Disgusting Dick Durbin 13 hours ago. So, AOC's essentially MIA on this event.

As for photo and video evidence of the size of yesterday's rallies in Caracas and elsewhere, I posted links to Maduro's Twitter that showed many of them and Maduro with his wife standing together unprotected at the big Caracas gathering--which apparently was a wasted effort as very few took the time to look.

Dimitri Medvedev has made the most noise on Twitter from Russia with some very strong statements that Putin has echoed in person. Yesterday I mused we'd discover which nations are Outlaw US Empire vassals and I wasn't disappointed as most are echoing Pompeo's lies on the matter almost verbatim--May, Macron and Trudeau being the worst boot-licking toadies.

James posted a link to Craig Murray's blog entry on this topic, which is worth reading, although it's clear Murray lacks some key background facts.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 24 2019 17:58 utc | 164

Because there is much talk about “illegal” or “questionable” means by which recent elections in Venezuela have been called, I thought it might be useful to post here something that almost no one in the US is aware of — that the Venezuelan constitution includes specific provision for the calling of a Constituent Assembly to make changes to the Constitution,the judiciary and the government itself, and spells out the various ways that such an assembly may be called.

After the Venezuelan Supreme Court found the National Assembly to be too corrupt, and too involved in extra-legal behaviors to remain in control of the country, President Maduro. following the country’s constitution to the letter, called the Constituent Assembly. The “C.A.” operates like the soviets in the former USSR were meant to. Every interest or occupational group — military, educators, farmers, laborers, etc, has a voice. The C.A. did draw up a new Constitution, which is now the fully legitimate law of the land.

The former National Assembly now has no legitimate role in Venezuelan politics or governing. Former National Assembly president Juan Guaidó, therefor, has no standing whatsoever as far as claiming the presidency of the country.

Here are the three relevant clauses of the Venezuelan Constitution:

Article 347 of the Venezuelan constitution says:

“The original constituent power rests with the people of Venezuela. This power may be exercised by calling a National Constituent Assembly for the purpose of transforming the State, creating a new juridical order and drawing up a new Constitution.”

Article 348 of the constitution spells out the various ways that a National Constituent Assembly may be called:

“The initiative for calling a National Constituent Assembly may emanate from the President of the Republic sitting with the Cabinet of Ministers; from the National Assembly by a two-thirds vote of its members; from the Municipal Councils in open session, by a two-thirds vote of their members; and from 15% of the voters registered with the Civil and Electoral Registry.”

Article 349 says:

“The President of the Republic shall not have the power to object to the new Constitution. The existing constituted authorities shall not be permitted to obstruct the Constituent Assembly in any way. For purposes of the promulgation of the new Constitution, the same shall be published in the Official Gazette of the Republic of Venezuela or in the Gazette of the Constituent Assembly.”

So the current government of Venezuela, elected fairly and openly according to international observers, is fully legitimate, and the actions of the US government violate a whole raft of US and international laws, as well as the requirements of simple human decency.

In other words, to help get Venezuela back on its feet, send food, not bombs.

p.s. this comment was also been posted on another site, where I use a different screen name

Posted by: AntiSpin | Jan 24 2019 18:29 utc | 165

@161 guerrero.. thanks for the overview.. i was thinking about how mexico hadn't come out like all the other poodles, bowing in servitude to the usa... kudos to you and your country for adopting a healthy and friendly position on this and in general..

@163 vk... maybe the west will do like what they have done with the bogus yemen leader who is holed up in riyahdi.. they can have guadio holed up in equator or some country adjacent venezuala where he can be referred to by the west as the legit leader of venezuala according to the same bullshit artists who are now known as 'the west', excluding a few sane countries like mexico of course...

@164 karlof1.. @87 kadath had mentioned the same as the commondreams article in his post much earlier.. where is the so called opposition? vacant... there is no opposition in the usa.. it is called the war party for good reason.. both repubs and dems are a part of the same party!

Posted by: james | Jan 24 2019 18:31 utc | 166

"As the sun of civilization approaches its zenith, with shining laughter,
the voices of Mexico's heroes are heard to shout: — Who are the destroyers of the divine right?

— Who are the emancipators of the slaves?, and:

— Who are the founders of an authentic democracy?

Thus, our heroes are revealed alogside the pale statues of neoliberalism, conquest and barbarism, sustained on their pedestals by an uneducated population. Historical justice will be relentless, it must be; and will not forgive us if we forget Mexico, even for a moment; and justice will be all the more severe to those who worship in the sanctuary of Washington, when, in the opposite temple, other souls are divided into numerous families, yet all of them preserving the unity of the filial love that taxes Simón Bolívar, the Liberator.

We thus excite, once again, and without tiring, the youth to pay tribute to the national literature by leaving aside the effeminate Ionian lyre with its monotonous repetitions of love, pleasure, and fantastic sorrow, to pick up the robust lyric Phrygia, the lyre of the gods and the country, the lyre of brass strings making the hearts of the people shudder with pride in the students’ struggles for justice and freedom, the freedom that encourages and animates us in the long march of civilization, of which every one of us forms a conscious part.

Indeed, literature in Mexico will serve, as in other nations, to cure the national character, to be the forerunner of progress, to encourage the nation and to save it from despondency and death, by locating upon its regal brow the immortal crown of glorious memories. Yes, to save her from death."

Ignacio Manuel Altamirano

 Iguala, Guerrero, 2018.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jan 24 2019 18:35 utc | 167

Venezuela Analysis today has 3 articles and a podcast up at their site to help inform people along with those from yesterday. I just linked to main page as linking to all is senseless.

vk's short, concise update @163 is good.

What I've yet to see is Germany's position, nor is there a unified EU position as VA reports.

Currently at the top of Maduro's Twitter is a very recent video of his governmental duties today. The caption reads: "With the presence of all the public authorities, we started the judicial year 2019 and presented the management Report 2018."

What's hilarious in its own way is Trump and kind appointed a person who didn't even stand for president in the last election. With his actions, Trump voided the last remaining pillar of his campaign pledges, and is now a certifiable failure. That so many Democrats have attached themselves to this failure demonstrates just how much of the USA's political system has failed, if this wasn't clear enough to people on Monday.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 24 2019 18:36 utc | 168

james @166--

See my 66 & 67 from yesterday.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 24 2019 18:42 utc | 169

In the wake of AmeriKKKa's Venezuela SNAFU I'm rating the chances of North Korea giving up its Nukes etc to please the perfidious AmeriKKKans at 1,000,000 : 1, or greater.
Maintaining the capacity to "Manhattan" Manhattan is by far the most exquisitely ironic way for an independent country to AmriKKKa-proof its sovereignty.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24 2019 19:50 utc | 170

Guerrero @ 161

Salúdos desde Virginia,

I suspect you are correct. Just as Trumpolini's wall is a symbol for neofascist xenophobia, we should look back at the linkage between the 1968 massacre at Plaza de las Tres Culturas and the Black Power salute by Tommie Smith and John Carlos who each raised a black-gloved fist at the Olympics. I had the privilege of meeting Jesse Owens in the Olympic Village, shaking hands with a man who wove the 3rd Reich into the same historical fabric as the US civil rights movement.

Si, compañero, México is the land of the eagle and the snake. ¡Viva!

Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 24 2019 20:17 utc | 171

@131 Zanon "You think Russia is behind Venezuela coup? That makes no sense."

SWOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

That's the sound that a point makes when it flies waaaaay over Zanon's head.

English definitely isn't you first language.

"As for Russia, I believe they should put a resolution in the UNSC, you agree with me?"

Saying what, exactly?

Or are you now going to claim that if Russia DOESN'T put up a resolution in the UNSC then that is evidence that Russia is acting in collusion with the USA?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 24 2019 20:40 utc | 172

Yeah Right

You could just have said 'yes' but instead you side with the coup states just like you sided with Israel earlier. Dont respond to any comment I make here because now you are ignored. :)

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 24 2019 21:10 utc | 173

Grieved @152

One of the best essays from Flores yet:

FLORES:This Is The Hour, Maduro’s Position Is Strong

1-24-19


The Venezuelan model never did away with the oligarchy, it split them away from their traditional positions. Previously, the oligarchs were naturally a comprador bourgeoisie – their inter and intra-familial power struggles were no different than those in old Verona, but expressed in the parliamentary duel for favoritism between center-right conservative and progressive-conservative liberal forces.

21st Century Socialism is brilliant and strong here precisely where it is weak. While contrary to the propaganda, the Venezuelan military and a whole part of the comprador bourgeoisie were transformed. The nationalism and life/death cult palingenesis and antiquinarianism of the Venezuelan elite military forces, death squads, steeped in the occult mysticism of the Popol vuh, an ideological project seen elsewhere in the region as well, as an anti-communist bulwark, was transformed into a popular nationalism of the same – an ideological transformation or more properly ‘culture jamming’ of the ultra-right Venezuelan military forces into ultra-left ‘Bolivarian Circles’.

A whole part of the comprador bourgeoisie was then set to become a national bourgeoisie, nominally private owners, and retaining the lion’s share of the wealth, all of the privilege, in exchange for some control. That’s the military’s deal. The comprador bourgeoisie was split by Chavez, and a national bourgeoisie was created and poised against the compradors.

. . .

But looking at the position of Venezuela and Latin America on the whole, from the perspective of the rational bourgeois – if the goal is strengthening and reinforcing the primitive accumulation of capital, the development of capital intensive centers on a local-regional level, across Latin America, in building stability, this is an historical and economic interest with some trans-class dimensions. It is understandable how an enlightened-but-self-interested bourgeoisie in Latin America would sign up for the ‘party state’ being offered up as the alternative to the stagnant politics of the 20th century.

What appears at first as a weakness – that Venezuela did not ‘expropriate the expropriators’ – may work out as a strength.

That the Chavez-built government of Venezuela has its ‘nationally loyal’ elites among industry and among the moneyed families is significant – that it has the same among most of the military is more so.

This rules out a unified rise of a counter-revolutionary force representing the entire oligarchy, and it rules out a Pinochet emerging. Chavez, and Maduro after him, are no Allendes.

Posted by: pogohere | Jan 24 2019 23:08 utc | 174

The history books from every age have the same words written on every page. Always starting with 'revolution' and ending with 'capitulation'. Always silenced by the truncheon or bought out with concessions. From the Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union to the invention of neoliberalism in the West as a ‘compromise’ to allow the elites to rule over the common people.

What we need is a widespread populist uprising against globalist neoliberalism. But media propaganda keeps the 'far-left' and 'far-right' apart against the curse of neoliberal centrism. We're kept apart by philosophies, moral stances and policies as dictated to us by the so-called elites. We'll be stuck in our own little ghettos forever 'til we start to work together. We're all workers in the factory chain, and the chain grows longer day by day. Instead of working for concessions, we should fight for total change. Take what is ours, instead of asking that it be given. Steal it together, instead of asking for permission.

Even though the 'far-left' and the 'far-right' disagree we share a common enemy in globalist neoliberalism. Our methods may not be the same, but together we can break the chain. Different aims, different means, with common ground in between.

If you end global inequality, dismantle the globalist economic hegemony of the international clique of elites (in all countries, not just the West) and stop things like climate change, the global exploitation of labor and resources and so forth, then we will stop mass migration--because people don't naturally desire to move halfway across the world to establish a peaceful family life. The Western population may be consuming the resources, but it is oligarchs everywhere that willingly sell them and keep the profits to themselves. And those few people that find educations in poor countries find legal means of emigration into the West through things like H1-B, which leaves those countries without the large educated class they need to establish a more advanced economy and root out corruption in their own nations.

So I say: tear down the walls between the far-left and far-right, rise up, and start a revolution.

Don't sit back, it's time to act, this life is ours, let's snatch it back.

Posted by: Flayer | Jan 25 2019 10:03 utc | 175

Think maybe LNG needs a higher oil price before LNG is a viable alternative suitable for forcing Europe to buy LNG instead of cheap Russian and Iranian oil.. ??

The foreign LNG crime lords in Venezuela abound.. the object seems to be to shut the Venezuela oil out from the global market.. (probably will be used to replace the federal oil reserves) as the private market oil and gas prices are pushed through the ceiling. But the solar, wind and hydro methods made available by the University of Australia should change everything.. Nuclear reactors sold to generate power are no longer needed. Batteries are only needed if the power consumption is going to be used in a mobile unit

Posted by: snake | Jan 25 2019 10:08 utc | 176

...look back at the linkage between the 1968 massacre at Plaza de las Tres Culturas
and the Black Power salute by Tommie Smith and John Carlos who each raised a black-gloved fist
at the Olympics... Si, compañero, México is the land of the eagle and the snake. ¡Viva!
Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 24, 2019 3:17:12 PM | 171

Estimado amigo, the sentiment you express is worthy, to you will come the glory of mankind's victory.

The massacre of the Politecnico students in the Plaza of the Tres Culturas in Tlatelolco in 1968
is certainly iconic. But what if it were a fabricated meme? like that 'massacre' in Daraa?

It is common knowledge that "the army" opened fire on the young people. One wonders if perhaps
the iconic version wraps cheese around poison? i.e. the Mexican army is given as the villain.

The Mexican army, unlike militaries of Central and South American countries, has a famous pride in
never having overthrown the government and of having never having gone up against the Mexican people.

How does the iconic version of The Tlalteloco Massacre of 1968 stand up to the Cui bono test?

In Sixty-Eight, there were professional Corsican or Cuban hit men who could pass for Mexicans,
anyone knows that real soldiers are told to stand there and keep their eyes fixed on nothingness,
yet the henious crime was supposedly committed by the Mexican government against Mexican students?

Posted by: Guerrero | Jan 25 2019 16:10 utc | 177

Grieved, Jan 24, 2019 10:31:23 AM 152 - Thanks for posting that, I was wondering about other posters referring to the OP posts, and the numbers didn't match up, for possibly the reason you said, which makes the numbering of posts on Bernard's site problematic, so that is why I've included your full reference above.
As stated by Don Bacon, Wayne Madsen normally gives good insights too, especially concerning USA, Central & S America.

Posted by: Ralph | Jan 25 2019 16:37 utc | 178

In Sixty-Eight, there were professional Corsican or Cuban hit men who could pass for Mexicans,
anyone knows that real soldiers are told to stand there and keep their eyes fixed on nothingness,
yet the henious crime was supposedly committed by the Mexican government against Mexican students?

Ditto the mass-media phych-ops shadow-show of the disappearance of the forty-three students in Iguala.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jan 25 2019 17:32 utc | 179

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