Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 02, 2019

The War On Syria Strengthened The Anti-Zionist 'Resistance'

Veteran Middle East correspondent Elijah Magnier predicts the further development of the war on Syria. The U.S. is leaving and the Arab Gulf states are coming back to Damascus to balance against Turkey. The Kurds will stay with Syria and Idleb will be liberated. His largely positive view rhymes with the recent analysis presented here.

Magnier though adds an important point which I did not make. The war on Syria has led to new relations that will soon haunt its main instigator:

Indeed the Levant is returning to the centre of Middle East and world attention in a stronger position than in 2011. Syria has advanced precision missiles that can hit any building in Israel. Assad also has an air defence system he would have never dreamed of before 2011 thanks to Israel’s continuous violation of its airspace and its defiance of Russian authority. Hezbollah has constructed bases for its long and medium range precision missiles in the mountains and has created a bond with Syria that it could never have established if not for the war. Iran has established a strategic brotherhood with Syria thanks to its role in defeating the regime change plan. NATO’s support for the growth of ISIS has created a bond between Syria and Iraq that no Muslim or Baathist link could ever have created: Iraq has a “carte blanche” to bomb ISIS locations in Syria without the consent of the Syrian leadership, and the Iraqi security forces can walk into Syria anytime they see fit to fight ISIS. The anti-Israel axis has never been stronger than it is today. That is the result of 2011-2018 war imposed on Syria.

How long will it take for Israel to gasp this new reality?

Posted by b on January 2, 2019 at 02:09 PM | Permalink

Comments
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I expect Israel has already grasped this new reality. What worries me is what Israel and its NATO/US enablers will try to do about it.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Jan 2, 2019 2:51:10 PM | 1

I seriously doubt the U$A's troops will totally leave Syria. If that should occur, it would
be an anomaly.

As always, we'll see.

Posted by: ben | Jan 2, 2019 2:53:54 PM | 2

as long as the US continue to press in their international law violation around the world. once those cease and US start being hit back for what it did then they would have to reverse gear into the more peaceful two state plan. unfortunately for them they have destroyed such political movement and together with propaganda + smear campaign has created the situation on where just holding a dialogue with it's anti semitic foes considered as bertrayal. The situation quite mirror the US both in political and military where there is a large gap between reality of the things in the ground and what they seems to believe.

Posted by: same | Jan 2, 2019 2:54:03 PM | 3

thanks b.. it is true what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.. that is the case here... i don't think it is over by a long shot though and suspect the same crew responsible for invading syria will come up with some alternative plans - iran being the one mostly discussed at present... maybe this is part of what it looks like when an empire is in decline.. it starts flailing away without the results they would have gotten previously...

israel does need to be held accountable... and the west under the guidance of the uk and usa also need to account for what they have created in israel and etc..

Posted by: james | Jan 2, 2019 2:56:08 PM | 4

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing" - British philosopher & political theorist John Stuart Mill, 1867

In the Syrian conflict we have a shining example of what a few good men can do, even at the cost of their lives. The Syrians, both militia & civilian, RAF, IRGC and Hzb have all given full measure, and beat back evil as a result, if only for a season. May it be an example to all in this new year, even to the least among us, that against seemingly insurmountable odds, the machinations of the vilest evil can be thwarted

Posted by: xLemming | Jan 2, 2019 2:58:18 PM | 5

The US seems to have burned most in the area. Turkey with the attempted coup and US arming the Kurds, Trump running his extortion scheme on MBS and now the Kurds being dropped like piece of used toilet paper. All now have a common enemy.

Perhaps the quest is not "How long will it take for Israel to gasp this new reality?" rather the question may be - How desperate and how far will Israel go to change this new reality.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jan 2, 2019 2:59:29 PM | 6

I suspect that Iran will soon be tested by the powers of evil...but I think they are up to the challenge.

Posted by: Guy Thornton | Jan 2, 2019 3:05:49 PM | 7

Grasp the new reality? US has not left. Nor has France. Nor has Turkey. Israel is fine, Syria is in ruins and Israel work with the arabs against Syria.

Oman says time to accept Israel after Netanyahu historic visit
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Oman-says-time-to-accept-Israel-after-Netanyahu-historic-visit-570480

No time to be positive at all.

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 2, 2019 3:14:56 PM | 8

"How desperate and how far will Israel go to change this new reality."

With an election coming up we shall see.
All those competing are in thrall to the Jabotinsky "Iron Wall" theory that peace with the Palestinians is impossible and genocide the only logical policy.
This has been the dominant view in Israel for a long time. At the moment it appears unchallenged.
But the new strategic situation changes everything: the only alternative to a race to armageddon is a turn towards democracy, peace and equality.
Armageddon though , is not only deeply embedded in the religious tradition but the preferred option of fascists.
Netanyahu is a fascist. And most of the parties involved in the Knesset are fascist too.
All that Israel has going for it at the moment is the corruption -to the point of complete ineffectiveness- of the pensioned Palestinian leadership which effectively prevents the voices of the great mass of those most interested in the conflict from being heard.
Palestine stands mute, a gun to its head, while those with least to gain in the long term from doing so-Israel's fascists, Jabotinsky's bastard progeny- tear the last shreds of the Two State option to pieces.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 2, 2019 3:16:54 PM | 9

The question that B asks at the end is rhetorical: the answer is that Israel will never accept any reality where it is less than the dominant power. Even if it ends up destroying itself first.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 2, 2019 3:29:28 PM | 10

I was born in late 70s..and my earliest memories of the mention of Israel (probably in 80s) at home was that they were invincible. That has however changed immensely, and even exponentially, in the past 2 decades. Anytime Israel has done anything to improve its situation, it has backfired and has in turn made its foes STONGER.

Posted by: Someone | Jan 2, 2019 3:33:44 PM | 11

Jen | Jan 2, 2019 3:29:28 PM | 10

I quite agree with you. The same remark can be made regarding the United States. Like cornered wild beasts, they will flail at anything in an attempt to assert their primacy, yes, even if it means destroying themselves in the process.

Thanks for this and for so many other lucid posts.

Posted by: RJPJR | Jan 2, 2019 3:39:00 PM | 12

Of course, as Avi Shlaim says in his work on the subject, the fatal problem with Israel's execution of Jabotinsky's Iron Wall policy, is that they carried out the first part, of making Israel militarily invincible, but omitted the second part, whereby once the invincibility was proven, Israel should offer peace to the Arabs, evidently on Israel's terms. The failure to make any moves on the second part, I think Shlaim's idea is, is because Israeli policy was taken over by militants. After the end of the 1948 war, the militants never stopped attacks on neighbouring countries, even in 1949, and Ben Gurion couldn't stop them, and eventually they were integrated into the government, people like Dayan. Winning military confrontations looks good in the short term, but it's not a recipe for a permanent future, etc, etc, and all that stuff we've read for years (but which is true).

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 2, 2019 3:53:15 PM | 13

Mr. Alabama,

it is called Persian Gulf not "Arab" Gulf. Please correct your mistake.

you can call the states as Persian Gulf Arab states.

Posted by: Persian Gulf | Jan 2, 2019 4:25:00 PM | 14

xLemming @5--

Thanks for your book recommendation; I didn't get an opportunity earlier to acknowledge it!

I found Trump's trial balloon for the establishment of a NATO of Southwest Asian nations amusing since the self-named Arc of Resistance (AoR) has already done so. I would posit that it's not just the new regional reality that Zionistan must accommodate but also the rapidly emerging Multipolar Global Order and its partner the BRI/EAEU trade/bloc paradigm. The two Outlaw Settler States (OSS) face being swept aside by the newly emerging dynamic unless they evolve into vastly different entities--sort of like a caterpillar morphing into a butterfly. Note that the Arab nations are already evolving to engage the new reality as is the entire Ummah. But there's still work to be done, so complacency isn't at all warranted.

Another issue is the Muslim Brotherhood, which is branded a terrorist organization by the AoR, and gets support from Turkey, Qatar & NATO. Concomitant with it is the need to eliminate as much as possible the extremism recruiting sergeant utilized by the OSS to pursue their activities. This is a priority stressed over & again by Putin and echoed by Xi, Khamenei, Nasrallah, Imran Khan, Duterte, Mahathir, and others. Note I didn't include the Saudis; IMO, they present a special problem since the Sauds are wedded to the extremist philosophy that supports their kingdom. The Turks are currently being handled by Russia. Qatar's the question mark, but its growing relationship with Iran might become a change-maker. NATO is a tool of the Outlaw US Empire which is now employing it in Africa; somehow, African nations must find a way to expel NATO and its boss, thus breaking the chains binding them to the old paradigm of neocolonialism.

The formula for driving extremism deep underground is greatly increasing economic opportunities while rapidly decreasing income inequality--not an easy task for nations chained to IMF loans and occupied by Outlaw US Empire stormtroopers. For Africa, the challenge is indeed daunting. What's of the utmost importance is deterring the OSS from infecting Africa in the manner they were able to infect Southwest Asia.

Victory Through Peace!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 4:41:14 PM | 15

Persian Gulf @14--

You owe b an apology. He correctly described the states in question as the Arab states residing on the Gulf, which we all know is the Persian Gulf.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 4:43:51 PM | 16

good point there. just like when Bush II invaded Iraq, they never thought about how Iraq's destruction led to its stronger link to Iran. bad foreign policy planning.

Posted by: Toxik | Jan 2, 2019 4:50:49 PM | 17

Persian Gulf @14:
I addition to karlof1's comment, B also posted an article some time ago about the Saudi aim to falsely claim the Persian Gulf as Arabian Gulf. So you just look stupid now, at least to those here who can read and comprehend what B writes.

Posted by: DontBelieveEitherPropaganda | Jan 2, 2019 5:10:16 PM | 18

Let us not forget that no small credit for this reality can also be given to Donald Trump. He acted on his promise in spite of almost demented internal opposition. Hillary would have brought the US into direct conflict with Russia and if that had happened God alone knows if we'd even be in a position to debate the situation in Syria.

Posted by: ThereisaGod | Jan 2, 2019 5:10:50 PM | 19

@4 james - "suspect the same crew responsible for invading syria will come up with some alternative plans - iran being the one mostly discussed at present... maybe this is part of what it looks like when an empire is in decline.. it starts flailing away without the results they would have gotten previously"

I think what you surmise is precisely the case: that a declining power achieves decreasing results from the same actions. And I think part of the reason is that the imperial mindset comes up with weaker and weaker ideas, which are bound to produce weaker results. Take Iran. What possible alternative plan actually exists - in the realm of reality-based possibility - for them to come up with now?

The imperial forces have lost their creativity. In their time they've come up with some fiendishly clever ploys, but no longer, not in the face of opponents who have now learned their tactics, and who are watching more closely.

They keep choosing plans that don't reflect the new balances of power, and of course they fail. Meanwhile, as Magnier explains in the paragraph that b quotes, even those plans that seemed to come from a position of strength at the time were the wrong plans, because they failed to create sustainable conditions. In fact, they kept the opponent constantly threatened instead of lulling him with comfort. And so the opponents themselves are stronger now.

It is remarkable that around the world in many theaters we see plans hatched decades ago, during times of great strength, now bearing a fruit of failure, in times of lessened strength. If we can deduce a principle behind this, we can recognize that principle at work in the methods of China, in not seeking conflict at all, and of Russia, in seeking to settle conflict not by war but by peace. These are sustainable situations being created.

I don't know if they're doing it deliberately from some principle or just from natural inclination, but based on the continual failures we now see of the strong-arm approach, I would bet on the long-lasting success of their conciliatory approach.

Posted by: Grieved | Jan 2, 2019 5:13:21 PM | 20

What this article points to is all that the US will lose if it withdraws from Syria in this way. It could have chosen to negotiate withdrawal with Syria, Russia, Turkey, etc and ensured concessions, continuing authority and a continuing say. It could have, at least, secured modest but important concessions for its interests. Instead, the US chose to withdraw in a way that completely undermines it's continuing presence and voice in the middle east. It risks creating the impression (not the reality, but impressions are important) of the last days of Vietnam. Why on earth would the US withdraw in that fashion? Isn't it more likely that the US will not withdraw or will just appear to have withdrawn while actually remaining.

I am struck by Macron's expressed determination that France will stay in Syria. France cannot really remain in Syria without US support. If the US stay and France remain then won't that really be an indication that the US have not really left.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:13:45 PM | 21

karlof1 @15
Interesting analysis. As in many conflicts there is more going on than meets the eye.

One of the deep problems in the 'ex' French Africa countries is that they are only partially 'ex'. On their independence from France their banking systems were never released from the Bank of France allowing the French usury over their funds. This was one of the reasons why France was so keen to zap Libya, Ghaddafi was proposing to refinance them all to give them true independence and that would have cost France dearly both financially and in political power.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 2, 2019 5:17:08 PM | 22

b: How long will it take for Israel to gasp this new reality?

Funny you should ask, b. It seems to me that there is a determined effort to deny that both USA neocons and Israel grasp the reality and are doing something about it.

They can accept Israel's reduced status and the Shia ascendancy or they can use a false flag to double down.

IMO evidence for the later is being ignored.

If the SAA had downed a commercial airliner during the Israeli Christmas attack, then Trump would have the excuse he needs to rally the USA public for a re-commit to the Middle East. His rushed announcement of a "pull out" from Syria before this attack and his "pause" of that "pull out" afterwards suggest USA-Israel coordination. Mattis resignation was likely a PR stunt that was meant to emphasized Trump's peaceful intent.

If my view of the USA-Israeli desire for a ff is correct, there will be other attempts. And soon.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

Neocons know that the clock is ticking.

Once Iran becomes a full member of SCO, they will gain the protection of the Alliance. Once Russia deploys its hyper-sonic strategic missiles (beginning in 2019), it will not be possible to attack an SCO country.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

PS I've been making these points since the Xmas attack.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 5:18:44 PM | 23

Thanks b for picking out that last para of Elijah's article, giving it the wider circulation that it deserved.

Don't you just love the Law of Unintended Consequences sometimes?

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 2, 2019 5:20:35 PM | 24

@Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:13:45 PM | 21

You seem to regret greatly US withdrawal, even when it has not already ahppened....
If it not were becuase I know you are ADKC...I would think you are "Mad Dog" Mattis...
Are you a US military?

Posted by: Sasha | Jan 2, 2019 5:29:16 PM | 25

@ADKC and all who are suffering so much at the Pentagon and related blogs...

The withdrawal will not by even in a 4 month period, now, starting today, it will be in an "undetermined period of time"...The Donald has said he does not want to left the Kurds abandoned on their own...now that they have turned to the SAA...

Posted by: Sasha | Jan 2, 2019 5:46:00 PM | 26

Sasha @25

People seem to think that the US withdrawing is a done deal, commonsense indicates that it is not.

I'll be glad to see the US leave, but it is delusional to think that they would leave in this way.

If the US were negotiating with Syria, Russia, & Turkey then a real withdrawal would be much more likely.

Regarding the dispute between Trump and Mathis, I am afraid that I tend to regard that as theatre rather than real. "Mad Dog" got his name because he was enthusiastic about killing and destroying and had no concern about civilian deaths (and instructed his troops accordingly); Mathis is not known for having any interest in negotiation.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:46:04 PM | 27

Sasha @26

Doesn't this post indicate that the US withdrawal will not actually happen?

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:49:11 PM | 28

Trump is facing much opposition to the Syrian departure as part of his often stated goal of reducing US military activity in Middle East. Crying foul are US 'Think Tanks', other NATO countries, mass media, Democrats , Republicans, some of his own military, as well as Israel.

Noteworthy to me are Trump's recent cutting combative remarks re high profile Generals Mattis and McChrystal, and the departure of Kelly. When Trump assumed office it was all about how wonderful the generals were.

And there was a very significant interview on FOX on Sunday last. Trump sidekick Rudolph Giuliani very publicly and sharply in effect said that treating Julian Assange as a journalist doing his thing was the sensible approach. He compared what Assange does to the release of the Pentagon Papers. This is completely at odds with Pompeo's harsh and threatening demonizing of Assange. Sea change?

Many more convolutions to come no doubt.

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Jan 2, 2019 5:53:25 PM | 29

ADKC @ 21

The French Defence Minister is taking a more realistic line.

Florence Parly tweeted on Tuesday after a visit on Monday to French troops stationed in Jordan. According to Le Figaro, which reported from Jordan, Parly confirmed that “without the Americans, who carry out 90 percent of the strikes - plus their contribution in terms of intelligence, air-to-air refueling, and bombardment guidance - the mission could become quite complicated, almost impossible.” “Without them, it may not be obvious, realistic or effective,” she conceded.

In the same article, note from a Kurdish news outlet, they say that as of now, no coalition troop has left the northeast of Syria, YPG spokesman Mahmoud affirmed, nor has any deal with Damascus been made.

http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/9f0a13ae-98e0-4020-a6e0-50174f2bd526

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 2, 2019 5:55:30 PM | 30

nobody said cracking eggs and making an omelate was easy
oded yinon is a big idea
foundation works for the new temple are already underway the ground has been cracked and broken
resistance is futile positive negative the current still flows.
the important cogs worldwide are borged who cares what the cattle think
just background noise from slaughterhouse already

Posted by: menem | Jan 2, 2019 6:03:36 PM | 31

Trump says he wants to help Kurds after withdrawal. Okay, fine. IMO, the best way Trump can help Kurds is to lift all unilateral sanctions on Syria as they also damage Kurds. Add to that the treatment of Turkey, which is being hurt by Outlaw US Empire policy which in turn also hurts Kurds. Lets go further and add the Iraqi and Iranian Kurds to the overall Kurd Cocktail and say that all negative measures toward all the nations having Kurds as minorities harms Kurds; so, to help Kurds, change the friggin' policies--particularly the illegal sanctions on Iran that curtail essential medical goods that the Kurd minority share with all Iranians!

JohninMK @22--

Thanks for your reply! I wasn't aware of France retaining financial control of its former colonies in the manner you describe. Talk about meddling! Quite obviously, that must change.

Victory Through Peace!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 6:10:02 PM | 32

Haverá outra Diáspora.
Será fenomenal!

Posted by: Proftel | Jan 2, 2019 6:12:52 PM | 33

Trump's cabinet press conference today went over some of these issues. It was the usual freewheeling Trump. He affirmed leaving Syria but did not nail down a time frame. The withdraw will probably be just sliding across the border into Iraq IMHO.

His remarks on Afghanistan were interesting. It was the same thing, "let the locals take care of it". "Why doesn't Pakistan, India, the former Soviet Republics, and Russia take care of this". "Why are we protecting them". The Western elites must be passing a very large stool over those remarks.

Korea is coming around for another pass and the Korea's seem to want unification. I do not recall stuff like this ever happening in my lifetime.

Floating the idea of a free Assange? It is these types of bold anti establishment policy moves that may outmaneuver everyone into 2020. Letting the Dreamers have amnesty for some wall funding would be another.

Posted by: dltravers | Jan 2, 2019 6:16:03 PM | 34

Pro-Russian/Anti-USA dreamers want to believe that Trump accepts "the inevitable" decline of the Empire.

Pro-Trump dreamers want to believe that he is anti-globalist/anti-swamp.

Trolls play on this hopium as they talk about "factions" in US that are fighting to make policy.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

US establishment is very united for neocon-neolib governance (aka "the swamp"). That means NWO global hegemony and neo-feudalism. Any pretense that a "populist" (like Obama or Trump) will bring peace and harmony is laughably false.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 6:17:35 PM | 35

On Jabotisky, I have not read on his legacy until seeing the reference by bevin @9 above.
quote: 'We do not have to account to anybody, we are not to sit for anybody's examination and nobody is old enough to call on us to answer. We came before them and will leave after them.'

The racist arrogance, the unfettered chauvinism of narcissus. In that brief, admittedly ugly reference in the congratulatory story in wikipedia says it all. Disgusting!

The Sumerian came before them, the Nubian came before them (see Nabta Playa), and their works are astounding. Let alone the extraordinary works of ancient China and all the rest of humanity.

The creative human endeavours will be here for a long time and the Jabotinsky's of this world no matter what religion or none that they may embrace are chauvinist, racist impediments to our humanity.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 2, 2019 6:19:25 PM | 36

Blowback. It's a bitch.

Posted by: Michael Brewer | Jan 2, 2019 6:22:52 PM | 37

The USMCA trade deal which Trump signed is horrifying and a lot like the TPP.

It will usurp the Congresses of of all three countries by committees. Its "checks and balances" are handled by a committee within the USMCA. It will facilitate the corporate looting of all three countries. It expands copyright protections and extends copyright from the current 50 years to 70 years.

This is the stuff of New World Order and it in no way puts "America First" or MAGA.

Even though it is signed by Trump, it has yet gone through Congress as a bill. Please be aware of it. It must be stopped.

Posted by: fast freddy | Jan 2, 2019 6:29:27 PM | 38

Robert Snefjella @29--

I owe you a big Thank You for your reply a few threads back I wasn't able to write at the time! IMO, McCrystal will soon be fired a la MacArthur for insubordination: His "Stand Fast" statement. IMO, Trump can't allow that to go unchallenged.

The Assange status was quite welcome, particularly considering the source!

Victory Through Peace!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 6:30:32 PM | 39

Well, one question that lurks behind the curtains is how much of the US military
policy is still wired to the zionist project. Skipping the geometry of it all, when things get really desperate, it is Putin’s Russia that appears to be broadcasting its new apocalyptic weaponry the loudest. Presumably this backstops the axis of resistance until the day the us/zionist nukes are rolled out as an offensive ultimatum. Then all betting windows close.

Today, China has reportedly ramped up its Taiwan rhetoric, maybe to keep Xi in the limelight of Sino-Supremacist glory, but after the US has stubbed its toes in the Middle East, who wants to take on China, Russia and all the sub-theatres in Africa and South America? I see a signal to Washington here.

As OBOR links up with re-established trade routes linking Jordan to Lebanon, Israel gets to watch its Eastern borderlands develop in commerce many times over what they could have hoped to siphon off in stolen resources like the miserable mosquitoes they are. My bet, anyway.

As to how zooming out globally from the central point in b’s post matters, it is exactly, IMO, the dissipation of us/zionist power that the reality is, beyond just the Arab League. How well does Israel get along with Beijing?

Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 2, 2019 6:31:17 PM | 40

karlof1 @ 16 & DontBelieveEitherPropaganda @18

"the Arab Gulf states are coming back to Damascus".

now I am not an English expert but that to me says the states of "Arab" Gulf.

this is a common mistake by people because of the British attempts to erase Persian from the Persian Gulf.

Let me correct it again, Persian Gulf arab states.

Posted by: Persian Gulf | Jan 2, 2019 6:52:51 PM | 41

karlof1 @ 16

if anyone owes an apology it is MOA to the people of Iran and all humanity for unwillingly and unknowingly erasing a people's heritage like the wahabi and british terrorists

Posted by: Persian | Jan 2, 2019 6:56:09 PM | 42

Persian Gulf @ 41

Sorry but as a native English speaker "the Arab Gulf states are coming back to Damascus" can mean both that the Arab states in the Gulf are coming back to Damascus as well as your interpretation depending on context. In this case my interpretation would probably carry the day as there is also a non Arab Gulf state, Iran.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 2, 2019 7:18:12 PM | 43

Too early to tell if Israel is a declining force in the Levant or not.

But it is important to highlight Israel entered in exhaustion after the 90s. It has a demographic time bomb (that's possibly the real reason it wants to occupy the West Bank so urgenntly). It has grown in terms of GDP, but at the cost of much inequality.

Posted by: vk | Jan 2, 2019 7:19:05 PM | 44

Persian Gulf @40 & @42

Clearly, you object to the term "Arab Gulf" because it is Saudi Arabia claiming the gulf as their own and in line with British/western intentions to erase the (linguistic) historic traces of "Persia".

It seems to me that you have a point and most people, including b and karlof1, would agree.

Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 7:21:35 PM | 45

Persian Gulf has become turgid with non sequiturs. Time to get to shore and dry out.

Posted by: metni | Jan 2, 2019 7:22:44 PM | 46

Arab Gulf states

Iraq-Under US occupation, US bases, 9000 troops
Kuwait-British/US puppet state, US bases and 15,000 troops
Saudi Arabia - under MBS relations never better with Israel, US bases
United Arab Emirates-5,000 troops deployed
Oman,Qatar,Bahrain have a combined population of 7 million, largest US military base in ME in Qatar, US 5Th fleet in Bahrain, over 20,000 military personnel combined in these 3 countries

I doubt Israel is sweating much over these Arab Gulf States

Posted by: Pft | Jan 2, 2019 7:27:13 PM | 47

Just a tad OT:

"Trump just endorsed the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan! He said the USSR went into Afghanistan in 1979 to fight terrorism. Bloody right! Good for Trump. Watch neocons go crazy on Twitter."

The following thread is entertaining and educational.

The commentator, nom de plume Persian Gulf, might have availed itself of a bit of research into previous articles by b on the topic as it certainly hasn't lurked here much at all. As an ESL teacher, I considered the linguistic issue prior to writing my reply, and I stand by it. Only propagandists use the term Arabian Gulf, and b is clearly a serious writer about geopolitical affairs, which Persian Gulf ought to have noted. I do hope Persian Gulf continues to lurk, learn and participate in our discussions.

Victory Through Peace!

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 7:34:04 PM | 48

@ bevin #9

All those competing are in thrall to the Jabotinsky "Iron Wall" theory that peace with the Palestinians is impossible and genocide the only logical policy.

I hadn't heard of the "Iron Wall" essay so I went looking for it.

The Iron Wall

My conclusion is that Jabotinsky was a ruthless dreamer rather than a mass murderer. Since the essay was written in 1923, it would have been quite difficult for him to anticipate some future developments. A new one from WW2 came when somebody remarked that "Hitler built a fortress around Europe, but he forgot to put a roof on it."

The apartheid Jewish state doesn't have a roof either, and in my opinion the air defenses there don't compare to those even in Syria.

The murderous zionists have been creating new enemies at a terrific pace, and this is starting to bite them on the a$$. Dangerous offensive rockets are a lot less expensive than effective defensive ones, and the cut-rate "Iron Dome" is basically a soothing fairy tale for the rednecks inhabiting the Apartheid State.

One of the rah-rah propaganda sites I look at is run by the warmongering son of a Famous American Jewish Novelist. A recent post on his site was (IMO) designed to reassure everybody that the Apartheid State is still OK. Title:

"Introducing Israel’s Deadly Dolphin-Class Submarine (Armed with Nuclear Weapons?)"

I think this is a version of the little ditty by Hilaire Belloc (UK Warmonger)

Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.

The Modern Traveller (1898)

IMO the inhabitants of the cesspool state are not quite sane, and are going to cause a LOT of trouble in coming years.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jan 2, 2019 7:39:48 PM | 49

"Sanctions, terrorists, bombs, and missiles didn't work to conquer Syria? Well, then let's try more of the above!"

^ My interpretation of what Israel is thinking.

Posted by: worldblee | Jan 2, 2019 7:40:35 PM | 50

@19

Oh puh-lease. Hillary and Trump belong to the same syndicate. If anything Trump's election and the effective strategy of diverting election meddling blame towards Russia instead of the real culprit Trump colluded with, Israel, has only put Russia in a worse position on more levels with the Empire.

What is clearly surfacing and what Mueller is probably discovering with the FBI investigation of Psy-Group, the Israeli outfit specializing in global political influence, and by following the money to Cyprus, is that Trump colluded with Israelis who are Americans with dual citizenship and Russians who have Israeli citizenship and who's to say that Black Cube, affiliated with Psy-Group didn't use the internet to fan Russia meddling suspicions to divert suspicion away from Israel.

Trump made things worse for Russia. He even brags about it. Whether it is an intended or unintended consequence still remains to be seen. But everyone should ask which country benefitted most since Trump's election.

@23 jr

I agree that Israel is not going to roll over, and will try to pull something else. With regards to Mattis, my hunch is that Trump used an unwitting Mattis for that pr stunt.

Until proof of the contrary, I suspect that Mattis quit because he felt undermined by the fact that Trump let him know he intends to hire Erik Prince to replace with Blackwater mercs the surge portion of U.S. military he sent earlier in his Presidency to Afghanistan that he said he'll pull out soon.

Check the Open Thread.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 2, 2019 7:41:46 PM | 51

Stumpy@40

How well does Israel get along with China?

From this quite well.

https://www.hudson.org/research/14663-israel-and-china-take-a-leap-forward-but-to-where

Netanyahu recently expressed interest in Israel’s joining China’s One Belt One Road project, and in signing a free-trade agreement between the two countries.

In 2016 China’s annual direct investment in Israel almost tripled from the previous year to $16 billion. During Netanyahu’s March visit last year, the two countries signed ten bilateral business agreements amounting to a total value of $25 billion

Israel is a member of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB)—a multinational consortium aimed at increasing Chinas power in global finance.

Israel has expressed interests in becoming a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO)

A new 3 billion dollar seaport at Ashdod is being built China Harbor Engineering . This is one of the biggest overseas investment projects in Israel, ever.

Posted by: Pft | Jan 2, 2019 7:51:00 PM | 52

Although Trump as far as I know has never specifically cited Israel as a big American liability in the Middle East, he has repeatedly spoken of doing other countries' work for them there, being unappreciated by those countries, and the US having nothing to show for its Middle East wars, the killing and destruction and the money spent, etc.

And then there is his emphasis on reducing US military presence in ME and putting the focus back on rebuilding America.

By implication is not Israel part of the undefined list of unappreciative countries?

Israel will also be noticing that there is an anti-corruption anti-establishment insurgency along with a tide of MAGA sentiment in the US which to some extent can be interpreted as including opposition to the inordinate Israeli power over the United States.

This insurgency rightly or wrongly identifies Trump as a pivotal figure in support of that insurgency. Now it is not typically spoken or written of in ant-Israeli terms. Rather, there is much talk of the United States being effectively a conquered country; restoring the Constitution that has been distorted and subverted; much focus on ending the extreme corruption of Washington; of making the powerful subject to law - example the Clintons as hitherto above the law. The private banking cabal centered on the Federal Reserve banking system is increasingly identified as holding illegitimate and harmful control over US finances and economic development, the FBI has been shown to be corrupt at the top, and much else along these lines.

There is also growing awareness that pedo-predation seems inordinately linked to power in the US, that 9/11 was a treasonous false flag with Israeli involvement, and many of the cultural/sociological deteriorating trends are hard for more and more people not to notice: for example falling life expectancy; rampant drug problems; public educational system dysfunctions, etc etc.

The US MAGA 'insurgency' if successful seems likely to include a significant weakening of Israel's current ability to wield its current degree of influence, power, and control over US foreign and domestic politics and policy.

Also, the leapfrogging ahead of the US by the Russians and Chinese in the development of advanced defensive and offensive weapons capabilities is suddenly of global strategic influence. Presumably other smaller countries will now be able to offer more effective opposition to what up until recently (as in Syria) was a very one sided ability of the attackers - often US and NATO and Israel - via planes and missiles to attack with impunity.

Habits die hard, but sanity dictates changed policies given changed circumstances.



Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Jan 2, 2019 7:56:20 PM | 53

@Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:49:11 PM | 28

That post does not indicate anything, since this is all strategy of confussion so as to get the opponents, currently winning in Syria, unaware....

@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 6:17:35 PM | 35, @ADKC, and @all, still questioning themselves whether Trump is going to drain any swamp, anytime, in spite of the clear signs he is not, what role the US military has in al this, or whether the US military and the US intelligence community are at odds with each other or it is pure theater, and so on...

Just this morning, as I am on vacation, I was reading some article and New Eastern Outlook, a site I had not visited lately for a while, and found this interesting one about the "deep state", through which I went, out of curiosity, on to search on one of the richest families cited in the article, concretely the Astor Family, whose wide Family Tree I was reading attentively, finding connections with some former US presidents, when got my attention a name familiar to me from when I was researching on certain military analyst who owns a blog out there, to find that this gentleman has been an active supporter of the Soldiers', Sailors', Marines', Coast Guard and Airmen's Club, and New York's International Debutante Ball.

Well, you would think that I went on then to read about this "International Debutante Ball", out of gossip curiosity, and you will be right, but it happened that I found there the connections amongst the richest US families ( the Brahims ) with the most rancid European Royal Houses, as well as the US and international banking families and oligarchs, along with the US military and Intelligence community....If you go till the very end of the article, as I did, to read the list of former debutants, even vout of pure gossip curiosity, you will find there,v not only the daughters and grandaughters of the Bush family, but also Ivanka Trump and the Obama girls, along with General Petraeus´wife... but also daughters of other former CIA directors, and heiresses of great media conglomerates.... of course at different decades each one...

As I had previously read about the Bilderberg Club, to which I recall Petraeus is a usual assistant, I thought, "this could well be the feminine junior version of all this, could´n it?" Well, it is there where they find their husbands, or their husbands are then apppointed to high office, who then rule the world and make our lives around the world so miserable....Hmmm....This is The Borg, The Deep State and The Swamp, all at the same time....

Thus, do not break your heads any more, and resign to the fact that Trump is only one of them and has fooled you all the way... Everybody at the top, or wishing to be at the top, wants to be part of that, after all, since as the section titled "Impact" explains...

(...)The ball has also been called "the prettiest sight in this fine pretty world where the privileged class enjoys its privileges", referring to a quote from The Philadelphia Story. When a young woman has been presented as a debutante at the International Debutante Ball, she is considered to have become part of an "exclusive organization and club" of "post-debutantes of the International Debutante Ball ranging from royalty to billionaire heiresses from all over the world who all have this debutante ball in common". The Ball has been called a "female version of the elitist and exclusive Bullingdon Club, but with good manners and without the vandalising rituals". The International Debutante Ball is considered a "rite of passage" into high society for the "crème de la crème of young womanhood". The debutantes of the International Debutante Ball form lifelong lasting friendships and connections with each other. The International Debutante Ball has been described as a ball which "most young women nowadays will never attend" and which has largely become a "who’s who of the upper class", with daughters of US Presidents, European royalty, US Governors, and Diplomats receiving invitations. The debutantes of the International Debutante Ball form lifelong lasting friendships and connections with each other.

Posted by: Sasha | Jan 2, 2019 8:05:28 PM | 54

I would agree with NoOneYouKnow.The heads of state in the US, Israel and Britain are under intense political pressure at home. All 3 could potentially lose power in the near future. Thus, they are increasingly liable to look to Iran for a distraction. I would not be at all surprised by some action to instigate conflict and military strikes there.

Posted by: Christopher Donahue | Jan 2, 2019 8:10:50 PM | 55

Robert Snefjella @53:

The US MAGA 'insurgency'

See Jackrabbit @35 'cause you're dreamin'

See fast freddy @38 for a clue

The Trump psy-op doubles down on the Obama psy-op. Trump/Obama portrayed themselves as "populists" but serve/served the establishment. Each pretended to be a peace-maker but never made peace. Obama's "peace deal" with Iran was just a delaying tactic. "Isolationist" Trump hasn't made peace with North Korea and has backed away from pulling troops from Syria. He's still supporting Saudi Arabia against Yemen and arming Ukraine.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

Grab some popcorn.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 8:21:15 PM | 56

@Grieved | Jan 2, 2019 5:13:21 PM | 20 , Et al...

Hope this isn't to off topic, but may vary well be of interest to many here. I'd certainly be interested in any thoughts, comments, discussion (perhaps in an open thread ..) of the following:
China and the New World Order...

Military tensions, cyber espionage accusations, a brewing currency war; with every passing day, the headlines paint a convincing portrait of an emerging cold war between China and the West. But is this surface level reality the whole picture, or is there a deeper level to this conflict? Is China an opponent to the New World Order global governmental system or a witting collaborator with it? Join us in this in-depth edition of The Corbett Report podcast as we explore China’s position in the New World Order.

on topic, I agree with Jen @ Jen | Jan 2, 2019 3:29:28 PM | 10

These war Criminals and all compartmentalized factions of them, are like cornered Rats, now. I put nothing past em... And they WONT stop their collective crusades, even if it lights the world aflame.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 2, 2019 8:24:51 PM | 57

...
Why on earth would the US withdraw in that fashion? Isn't it more likely that the US will not withdraw or will just appear to have withdrawn while actually remaining?

I am struck by Macron's expressed determination that France will stay in Syria. France cannot really remain in Syria without US support. If the US stay and France remain then won't that really be an indication that the US have not really left.
Posted by: ADKC | Jan 2, 2019 5:13:45 PM | 21

Imo, the big difference between the US withdrawing from Syria, and 'just appearing to have withdrawn while actually remaining' is all about US casualties. Once a withdrawal becomes "official" then any US casualties in Syria can be classified, by the people who killed them, as rogue US die-hards who became victims of Syria's mopping-up operations. So it's not surprising that The Swamp is resisting Trump's call for an official declaration of withdrawal.

But it doesn't really matter from a Real World pov because the US presence in Syria is illegal and when Syria's patience expires it can give the Yanks a "leave by next Monday or be killed" ultimatum and start killing them. And you can be 100% certain that the Yanks won't want to push their luck that far.
Their Syria pratfall is OVER and they know it.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2, 2019 8:40:16 PM | 58

The A-Z Empire is in a lot more strife and disarray than it's ready to admit. And the pressure isn't just confined to the violent Western slaves to "Israeli" ambition. "Israel's" counter-intuitive anti-BDS propaganda campaign is facing mounting resistance and suffering multiple humiliating defeats worldwide.

Electronic Intifada published a Dec 31 roundup of dozens of BDS successes, and roll-backs of anti-BDS policies and legislation in the past 12 months, provocatively headlined...

How Did The Israel Boycott Campaign Grow In 2018?
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/how-did-israel-boycott-campaign-grow-2018

It's full of fun facts and VERY long.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2, 2019 9:37:31 PM | 59

How long will it take for Israel to gasp this new reality?

Israel is in denial and the U.S. is making sure it stays that way.
At this point I don't see any way the U.S., Israel bond can be broken.
This bond is a key element in the decline of the U.S. hegemon; and it will keep in decline until it reaches its angle of repose...
The realignment of the planet (Eurasia/Heartland) will ensure the isolation of the U.S..

Posted by: V | Jan 2, 2019 9:43:55 PM | 60

War is an integral part of the Western economic model, just as war is integral to the monotheistic religions expression of their faith by suppressing others.

These aspects of the Western social model are losing out to the China win-win model in the global consciousness.

We can discuss all we want about what will really come out of each model but at least two geo-political poles are forming and soon will "confront" each other over the global financial system and debt situations if the West does not go nuclear. China made it clear today that Taiwan is part of China when push comes to shove and I expect to see more positioning until a manufactured or accidental crisis brings the world to a metaphorical halt.

Will the world resolve the issue of global finance through the proxies of the ME? I think that option has run its course and failed.

What I am waiting to be incensed about it the announcement of a secret Bretton Woods type of meeting where the world is set on a new course of empire without any say by the 99%. I am not optimistic today that public finance will be part of the New World Order.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 2, 2019 9:59:11 PM | 61

With regard to Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s doctrine.

There is an important update on Jobotinsky’s doctrine in his paper “The Ideology of Betar” written in 1929. See Betar .
I thought the following paragraph was very telling:

"The first step in Zionism consists of this, but it does not follow that it is the last step. After attaining a majority in Palestine and being enabled to govern upon broad democratic principles, we will have before us even a more important task: Shivat Tzion (the return to Zion). By this we mean the creation of such conditions which would enable every Jew who is unwilling or unable to live in the diaspora to settle in the Jewish State and earn his livelihood there. These would probably reach into the millions, while a sufficient majority can be obtained by one million or a million and a half settlers. Afterward will come probably the most important task of all: to make Eretz Yisrael the leading state of the civilized world, a country the customs and laws of which are to be followed by the whole universe. "From Zion shall go forth Torah", signifies a "Torah" not merely in the religious sense. Zionism is a tremendous, overwhelming important tack, the boundaries of which our generation cannot as yet envisage. The first step, that deed without which there can be no Zionism, or a Jewish state, or a real Jewish nation, is the creation of a Jewish majority in Eretz Yisrael on both sides of the Jordan."

Please note the last sentence in which Jobotinsky calls for a Jewish majority on BOTH sides of the Jordan. Israel's work is not done. Consequently, I think it unlikely that Israel will seek peace with the surrounding states until it has recovered the full patrimony promised to Abraham.

Posted by: TheBAG | Jan 2, 2019 10:07:22 PM | 62

JohninMK @ 43

Welll clearly your education institution has failed you. How about we call Yemen and Oman the Arab Ocean states. Clearly the Ocean refers to Indian Ocean correct?

Give me a break. It is Persian Gulf only and forever.

Posted by: Persian Gulf | Jan 2, 2019 10:35:40 PM | 63

There are some silly comments above about Trump going back on his tweet promise to remove US troops from Syria. Silly yes, because even if Trump tries to reverse his decision he has set in motion a number of irreversible actions. Three that I can think of.

1) The Kurds in Manjib immediately invited in Syrian troops to protect Kurdish towns in that area. The Syrians accepted that invitation. At this point it will take a bigger military ground force to remove them. I can't see where that might come from.

2) Iraq has just gone in and bombed some ISIS positions in eastern Syria. This were ISIS positions that were under de facto US protection for the last 6 months. Iraq is also considering in sending in ground troops to remove those remaining ISIS forces. What is the US to do today? Go to war against the very government that we set up in 2005 in order to protect ISIS? Don't think that will happen.

3) Turkey seems happy with recent developments. They are not attacking the Kurds in NE Syria as they threatened to do last month.

In short things are looking much better today than they were before Trump's important tweet. Whatever he says to try to placate Lindsay Graham is irrelevant -- Trump has set in motion a number of elements that, at this point, can be reversed by a counter-tweet.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jan 2, 2019 10:36:43 PM | 64

Pft @ 52

Thanks for the link.

But nothing attracts China’s attention like Israel’s high-tech sector. The wave began in early 2010 with Yifang Digital buying up Pegasus Technologies, which develops and sells a digital pen for computers. Since 2014, Israeli companies snapped up by Chinese investors include TravelFusion, Natali HealthCare Solutions, and Alma Lasers. Meanwhile, Chinese Internet leviathans like Alibaba, Baidu, and Tencent Holdings are trolling for Israeli start-ups that can help them build new technologies to compete with Google and Apple.

So, Israel is to become Silicon Valley of the Middle East. Further, once the port at Ashdod opens for business, is it conceivable that Israel would consider more attacks on its neighbors? A whole new equation.

Really looking forward to a new Huawei phone.

Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 2, 2019 10:36:53 PM | 65

karlof1 @ 48

I have been following MOA for years. I will point out a mistake when I see one. And this “Arab Gulf” business is a mistake and an annoying and I demand to be corrected.

This is English 101.

Posted by: Persian Gulf | Jan 2, 2019 10:43:16 PM | 66

Mr B

It’s Persian Gulf states. Please correct your mistake.

Thanks

Posted by: Persian Gulf | Jan 2, 2019 10:49:01 PM | 67

@54 sasha.. interesting racial profile at the International Debutante Ball 2012

on israel and iran - i finished reading william polks book 'understanding iran' published in 2009... here are some of his comments from page 210...

"Is nuclear disarmament a feasible, even if a long-or middle-term objective? I think it is. Cutting back and then abolishing nuclear weapon inventories is in everyone's interest. The simple fact is that nuclear weapons anywhere are a danger to people everywhere. From my experience in the Cuban Missile Crisis, I speak with some assurance of this fact. Of course, it will be difficult to persuade Israel, which has a huge nuclear inventory, but even Israel has a logical reason to join in this effort. In its own interest, it must face the fact that, whether or not Iran decides to get nuclear weapons, other neighboring countries soon will. So while having nuclear weapons, arguably, was a source of security for Israel in the past, retaining them today is becoming a source of insecurity. Moreover, giving them up would remove the major danger the Israelis have identified: A conventionally armed Iran poses no threat to Israel, and a conventionally armed Israel poses no threat to Iran. Both could benefit from regional security guarantees that would naturally be incorporated in a move toward a nuclear-weapon-free Middle East."

Posted by: james | Jan 2, 2019 11:03:25 PM | 68

@67 pg - dude, chill... this is b's house... don't like it? No problem... there's the door

The rest of us are content to say our piece, spar a little, and then move on, you know, like adults

Posted by: xLemming | Jan 2, 2019 11:18:23 PM | 69

@ Persian Gulf #66

Until I read this thread I didn't realize there was any controversy about the naming of a certain body of water. And I surely wouldn't have guessed the matter was something which would get people agitated. Turns out I was wrong on both counts.

Persian Gulf naming dispute

It's a rather new dispute, but so what? I say let the locals thrash it out among themselves. Now if it had been an actual mistake - Gulf of Mexico or Gulf of Venice, that would have been quite another matter.

I've seen my share of name changes. Peking became Beijing. On the back of gasoline tanker trucks used to be the word "Inflammable". Almost overnight the word was changed to "Flammable". As a purist I didn't like it and still don't, but I got over it.

Posted by: Zachary Smith | Jan 2, 2019 11:19:39 PM | 70

How long will it take for Israel to grasp this new reality?

My guess is fewer than 12 months.
All it'll take is for someone, somewhere, to articulate the rather obvious fact that non-semitic but insanely anti-semitic "Israelis" are Christian Colonialism's Useful Idiots, and should stop pretending to be surprised that everyone is sick of their whining self-pity, and pitiless, asocial attitude toward the locals in Jewish-occupied Palestine.
Of course that would necessitate their making a conscious decision to start behaving like responsible adults, so there are probably a lot more tears and self-pity ahead for the "Israelis."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2, 2019 11:28:28 PM | 71

I suppose b meant the Arab States bordering the Persian Gulf.

Often they are referred to as the GCC or just "Gulf States" (GCC has now formally become "Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf"). That grouping leaves out Iraq and Iran, who also border the Persian Gulf.

I wonder what the terms for these are in b's native German. Perhaps it is some overly long German word that means exactly "Arab States bordering the Persian Gulf" which he tried to shorten in his translation.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <>

In any case, asking b to change the wording from "Arab Gulf States" to "Persian Gulf States" would also be incorrect as he means to refer to the Arab countries that are re-establishing diplomatic relations with Syria. Iran (and I would guess Iraq as well) already have diplomatic relations with Syria.

"GCC States" is probably the best shorthand.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 11:42:48 PM | 72

The role of the Syrian Arab Republic in anti-Israel efforts has been downplayed, especially with regards to their support for Palestinian left-wing organisations. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine recieves money and support from the Assad government and they helped defeat ISIS's reign of terror in the Yarmouk refugee camp earlier this year. During the 1970s, Syria has strong ties with the German Democratic Republic where both of them aligned with Libya and People's Yemen against Zionism and the monarchy in Jordan. The loss of the USSR and the destruction of Libya and Iraq, along with the Saudi support for Islamists and the treachery of Arafat and his successor means that things have gone in the wrong direction since then. Maybe when Syria's up and running again with a big Russian presence the struggle can pick back up?

Posted by: Left Wing - Oppose Davos 2019 | Jan 3, 2019 12:40:21 AM | 73

It's much simpler than that. Persian Gulf's gripe is a bit limp because there's also a Gulf of Oman. i.e. more than one arab gulf.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 3, 2019 12:50:47 AM | 74

I guess I'll chime in on the Gulf states debacle. I have to agree with jr; it was probably an innocent mistake, however, I can understand why @66 feels offended. First of all, historically, Persian is correct because maps dating back to BC record it as Persian and not Arabian or Arab, except during the era of the Ottoman Empire much later, it was also known as the Gulf of Basra. Also, the fact that most Arab States on the Gulf since the 1960s started this name dispute and are hostile towards Iran and refuse to call it the Persian Gulf and want the name changed makes it understandable that Iranians consider it offensive to accommodate the name change and erase its historical significance for this body of water they take pride in that even the ancient Greeks referred to as Persian Gulf. If Alexander the Great had no problem with the name then it should stay Persian!

I guess It's a question of pride and respect.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 3, 2019 1:07:41 AM | 75

By "Arab Gulf states", B is referring to those Arabic-speaking states minus perhaps the sordid barbarians bordering the Persian Gulf, ie they are (Arabic-speaking) Gulf states. The person called Persian Gulf needs to stop trolling everyone here.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 3, 2019 1:49:49 AM | 76

How long until Iran, Hezbollah, Syria and Iraq have a falling out and start fighting each other?

Posted by: Fernando Martinez | Jan 3, 2019 2:03:45 AM | 77

Sometimes I’m happy about World News :1

Posted by: Featherless | Jan 3, 2019 2:11:42 AM | 78

The zionist war of terror unleashed on Syria has also exposed Israel for what it is - the ally of head chopper terrorists. In the eyes fo they world Israel is pariah. The BDS movement is getting all the more stronger and zionists are even losing fiends in high places (academia, business and politics). A fall out in the anti-zionist struggle is simply zionist wet dream. The land thieves better start moving back to the miserable Europe and American holes they crawled from.

Posted by: Hem Lock | Jan 3, 2019 2:14:25 AM | 79

I thought "Arab Gulf states" meant the Arab Gulf had said something.

Seriously, what an absurd thread-jacking over a locution which I'm sure 99% of readers read as "Arab states of the Gulf", which in context is obviously what b meant. If anyone, for political correctness reasons, thinks b should be more careful not to give inadvertent offense, then openly say so. But there was no "mistake", let alone malice.

Posted by: Russ | Jan 3, 2019 2:15:07 AM | 80

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 2, 2019 6:19:25 PM | 36

"The Sumerian came before them, the Nubian came before them (see Nabta Playa), and their works are astounding. Let alone the extraordinary works of ancient China and all the rest of humanity."

Heck, the British came before them.

Zionism is a purely modern European colonial movement which has zero historical connection to the ancient Israelites, and any alleged genetic connection between the European diaspora and the Israelites is dubious and extremely attenuated at best.

Posted by: Russ | Jan 3, 2019 2:16:07 AM | 81

@ Jackrabbit | Jan 2, 2019 11:42:48 PM | 72

GCC in German is: Golf-Kooperationsrat (Gulf Cooperation Council)

Currently it's referred to as: Kooperationsrat der Arabischen Staaten des Golfes

both pretty much the same as in English, ommitting the expression of place.

Anyway, Persian Gulf sounds about right to me.

Posted by: Hmpf | Jan 3, 2019 2:24:39 AM | 82

- The ENTIRE Middle East is sitting on a DEMOGRAPHIC timebomb. And that includes a country called Israel.
- Israel is also sitting on a SECOND timebomb. The average israeli is (fairly) deep into (mortgage) debt. And that timebomb is going to explode sooner or later. Like the average US citizen is also up to its eyeballs in debt. And when the US debt bomb is going to explode the israeli timebomb is going to explode as well.

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 3, 2019 3:05:53 AM | 83

Magnier - "President Erdogan needs Russia and Iran as strategic commercial allies."

This was my thought after reading b's piece. On one side, Erdo relies on Russia and Iran so eventually will come to some sort of peaceful arrangement with Syria. On the other side the arab gulf states or the gulf arab states to be more pc are now wanting to cozy up to Syria to keep the Turks out.
But then the common enemy of all, which they are starting to recognize is the US and its outpost, Israel. The enemy of my enemy... perhaps that still holds.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jan 3, 2019 3:30:08 AM | 84

Peter AU 1 | Jan 3, 2019 3:30:08 AM | 84

Just remember, Turkey and Iran are key players in China's BRI. Syria less so but still very important.
Israel is going to find itself in a very bad position; basically play nice or not at all.
I find it very interesting most people are ignorant of just what is going on in Eurasia and the critical importance of the Heartland Theory. It is the future, presently playing, as I type this...

Posted by: V | Jan 3, 2019 4:35:13 AM | 85

pft

"I doubt Israel is sweating much over these Arab Gulf States"

Indeed and Israel have no problem with Putin either,

Defense Minister says Israel is not concerned by Russia's military presence in neighboring Syria.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/245106

That says alot about what good positions Israel really have.

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 3, 2019 4:51:36 AM | 86

ADKC,

b and MoA readers know the difference(s) between "Arab" and "Persian"

as well as similarities. One reason b's statement is true is because Persia never left Damascus and therefore do not have to "come back." It is precisely the Arab states who abandoned Damascus who return, not all of Persia.
Iike to think that b incorporates such Hegelian subtleties just as indulgences for those among his barflies that go in for that kind of literary and logical eloquence.

A similar game of sophistry can be entertained in the semantic dialectics of indigenous tribes of contemporary Afghanistan and Pakistan x arabs. In the latter case, there is the old Bhutto-esque Qatar/Emirites refuge across the sea , the holding of north Kashmir and NE Frontier, while politically established from so many Bengalis of East Pakistan. When pass the Awan Bros, collect $50 to get out of jail and proceed (again) to start of Monopoly board.

Thanks to Sn for Assange rhetoric report!

जय जूलीयन!

Posted by: slit | Jan 3, 2019 4:59:15 AM | 87

"That says alot about what good positions Israel really have."

Hasbarists never understand Israel's real position. Making deals that Arab Gulf leaders can't avow in public because their people would overthrow them if they did, is not that great a success. What Israel says about Putin is making the best of a bad job, and frequently outright lying. Putin may be personally sympathetic to Israel, but Russia's real policy is with Syria. Israel has been mistakenly trying to intervene in Syria, and is failing. That's what's going wrong for Israel, and why Israel has reached such a low point.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 3, 2019 5:03:17 AM | 88

In today's (London) Times - a half-page piece about Rukban, with the headline:

"Children dying in camp under US control".

Quite astounding to see such a headline in a Murdoch title. Maybe the world really is changing.

Posted by: Montreal | Jan 3, 2019 5:03:20 AM | 89

But not only the war on Syria. Addiction to Isroïne is the most difficult addiction to treat. no one in the u.s. house and senate has ever escaped from it (they were led to think that cocaïne could help them to feel free). it makes u do crazy batshit things, makes u blind to horrible realities. that gives moral grounds for every sane people to be anti-zionist. one should create AZ (Anonymous Zionist), to help them.

Posted by: alain | Jan 3, 2019 5:14:09 AM | 90

@ karlof1 | Jan 2, 2019 6:10:02 PM | 32

Off-topic I know, but the situation is probably worse than you realise.

14 African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax For the Benefits of Slavery and Colonization

"…14 african countries are obliged by France, trough (sic) a colonial pact, to put 85% of their foreign reserve into France central bank under French minister of Finance control. Until now, 2014, Togo and about 13 other african countries still have to pay colonial debt to France…."

"…France is not ready to move from that colonial system which puts about 500 billions dollars from Africa to its treasury year in year out…."

Needless to say you will find those that dispute this interpretation.

Posted by: Ross | Jan 3, 2019 7:07:49 AM | 91

There is no "new reality" for Israel. Same old, same old. The true paranoid is never caught napping. The "holocaust" has always been foremost in the Israeli imagination. So, holocaust it shall be! Israel has never given a damn about its neighbors, whom it considers inferior. The rule in real estate is location, location, location. Israel would have been wiser to build its temple in Africa.

Posted by: jadan | Jan 3, 2019 7:41:25 AM | 92

No questions from journalists nor from anybody else...

Media silent as UN panel details organ theft and staged attacks by the White Helmets.

Posted by: Sasha | Jan 3, 2019 8:29:08 AM | 93


From Zero Hedge this morning, re Trump news conference:

"And in a statement sure to give John Bolton a conniption fit, Trump commented in response to a question on Iran’s role in Syria, saying “they can do what they want there, frankly.”

and “Syria was lost long ago. we’re not talking about vast wealth. we’re talking about sand and death,” while also noting:

“It’s not my fault. I didn’t put us there.”

Posted by: Robert Snefjella | Jan 3, 2019 8:37:20 AM | 94

Laguerre

That is also wrong. No arab state have been overthrown due israeli partnership, why else do you think arab states now open up to israeli partnership? If this threat their regime, they simply wouldnt do it. In fact Israel have never had a better relationsship than past 10 or so years, getting support by both US, Russia and even increasingly, arab states.

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 3, 2019 8:37:44 AM | 95

jadan | Jan 3, 2019 7:41:25 AM | 92

Hmmm... Haiti only recently finished paying back it's 'debt' to France after Toussaint kicked the bastards out in the 18th century! So no doubt the French want their kilo of flesh from its former colonies/neo-colonies.

Posted by: William Bowles | Jan 3, 2019 8:46:42 AM | 96

Although I've shared the skepticism that this pull-out will really happen, by now it seems to me that Trump's entire presidency is now staked on it. If he caves in on this, the contempt for him, the lack of respect, the lack of fear, will be absolute, universal, since the globalists and neocons, the media and Democrats, all now will know he's their bitch, while anyone who wanted the troops out will know he's too cowardly to do any such thing.

In that case I think impeachment AND Senate conviction by his fellow Republicans would move into the realm of possibility.

I don't know if Trump used to stud those stupid books he wrote with quotations from the likes of Machiavelli and Sun Tzu, but one of Machiavelli's basic precepts was, if you're going to do something important but unpopular, think hard before you do it, but once you go ahead you have to go through with it because if you cave in to pressure, you forfeit all respect and fear forever.

Posted by: Russ | Jan 3, 2019 8:47:57 AM | 97

Posted by: Zanon | Jan 3, 2019 8:37:44 AM | 95

As I mentioned, hasbarists really don't understand the situation, and you prove the point. Arab states are not "in partnership with Israel". The heads of state have secret exchanges with Israel that they can't publicly avow, and don't. There have been cases, in Saudi I think, where they were going to say something in public, until they were strongly warned not to. That is not partnership, it is whispers in the ear of autocratic, unelected, government powers. It can only be done because those governments are completely undemocratic. Even then, other princes of the royal family are more in touch with public opinion than those who talk to Israel.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 3, 2019 9:03:13 AM | 99

It seems now more than ever to be a game of brinksmanship and countermeasures. I can only assume that the planners of the attack on Syria simply assumed that they would be successful as in Libya and just didn't see the SAA and friends rebounding.
It's just arrogance I suppose. After this rather brutal trial by fire, the SAA is lean and mean with a compliment of new weapons and techniques. As mentioned in the article bonds and alliances have been formed that would otherwise not have happened in such a way. Try as it might, iFUKUS cannot destroy this network and all attempts will simply breed more resilience and persistence. Granted the above meddlers will try to sabotage and undermine the Arab states and their friends efforts.
The application of force and countermeasure is on the side of the what may be called the Syrian Alliance. Since the 1990's the rest of the world has "caught up" with iFUKUS in the realm of military technology. I use the expression loosely because I do not mean that the so called developing nations are peer equivalent, but rather that things such as detection, guidance and application are now readily accessible thanks to Russian and Chinese hardware not to mention many decent "knock-offs".
The ability to put a rocket on target is worth a great deal. The ability to see into the atmosphere and send out missiles even more so. I am greatly impressed by the methods and restraint used by Syria and Russia. While the USA levels entire cities whilst pretending to fight their own proxy forces, the Russians are negotiating surrender and sending foreign mercenaries off on tour busses with rifles in hand! Then there are the chess-like movements of forces and hardware in attempts to force the opponents hand and get them to move. I don't pretend to have any insight into this but what I do understand appears brilliant.
It seems that isreal has lost its edge in several ways. The population is growing soft, the IDF is not much of a fighting force, and if they were to be so foolish as to start a fight Tel-Aviv would burn. Their F-35s stay away from the Syrian air defenses and they have finally pushed Russia over the edge what with the downing of the IL-20...not a great place to be, despite posters such as Zanon constantly saying what a great position they are in..... Frankly they brought it all on themselves and I wont bother to uncover the underlying causes because other posters here have done a fine even handed job of it. Some players on the world stage only understand force and as such should be shown some.
If the USA cannot be brought to justice for illegally and malignantly occupying Syria, Iraq, etc at the UN, then justice must be served up some other way. If isreal chooses to bomb Syria from Lebanese airspace, they should receive like treatment. In the realm of mass media there needs to be some sort of correction in terms of accountability. What I here on a daily basis is utterly absurd. "The USA cannot leave Syria because chaos would erupt" and all manner of nonsense besides! These misconceptions need to fixed. The rape of Libya should have been the last straw.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 3, 2019 9:06:42 AM | 100

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